1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson. Okay, I'm here with Michael Shaw. 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: I just asked you how to pronounce it because it's 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: spelled differently than that. Do you get that a lot? Yeah, 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: pretty much every time? So okay, perfect your author and entrepreneur. 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: I was reading somewhere that you found success at the 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: age of fifteen. What in the world were you doing 8 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: at the success? I know it was totally unintentional because 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: I was on this trip to my father from Germany. 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: He's from this little town called Soling, and it's that 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: town is famous for making anything out of steel. So 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: you get Germans, you know this steel, they'll make something 13 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: beautiful and functional out of it. And so I was 14 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: there and I was fifteen year old kid, and I 15 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: wanted to find this authentic, authentically forged sword um And 16 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: so I was on this hunt with my cousin and 17 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: we were This was pre Internet and pre Google and 18 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: all that, so we couldn't just search, so we had 19 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: to like look through the phone book, and we found 20 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: this blacksmith who had been there for hundreds of years. 21 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: His firm had been there for hundreds of years. And 22 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: we kind of went down into this dungeon like warehouse 23 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 1: and and our factory, and you know, it was really 24 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: for a fifteen year old kid, it was amazing because 25 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: they were like these big blocks of steel dropping on 26 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: other steel, and flames and smoke and all this stuff. 27 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: And and so this big german guy, but I don't know, 28 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: he seemed like seven foot tall or something. He came 29 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 1: up to me hand Obama mustache, grease stained apron and 30 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: and he couldn't speak much English, but he he wanted 31 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: to know, Okay, why is this kid disturbing me from 32 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: my work? My cousin explained, okay, well he's this kid 33 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: from Canada, and and he came over there to find 34 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: you find a sword. And I guess this guy was 35 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: so touched by me coming there and finding him that 36 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: he pulled his sword, beautiful blade, uh, but from behind 37 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: his desk and he just handed it to me and 38 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: he said, he said, a gift for you. And I 39 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: was so touched by that moment. And then but then 40 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: he asked me, um, you know a question that changed 41 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: my life. He said, do you think anyone else where 42 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: you're from would like my swords? In North America, and 43 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: I thought, you know, the fifteen year old kid, I thought, yeah, 44 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: hell yes. So I kind of devised this whole plan 45 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: in my mind on the whole plane right back and everything, 46 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: that I was gonna sell these swords. And and when 47 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: I got back, I presented the idea to U to 48 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: my parents, and they, you know, fortunately they kind of 49 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: support me with oftentimes my wild ideas, and and they said, yeah, okay, 50 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: we can you know, we'll have to register your business. 51 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: So I was too young to drive, and my mom 52 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: she drove me around to get all these things done 53 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: that you're too young to drive, starting up, you know. Yeah. 54 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: So and then my dad would you know, I borrowed 55 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: with his old ties, and he dropped me off and say, 56 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: you know, i'll see in an hour. And and I 57 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: went in into you know, these stores and and would 58 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: try and sell these swords. And and I never sold 59 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: a sword, right, I never sold. But I learned a 60 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: lot about business because I had no idea about business 61 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: before that. And and what was happening though, in that 62 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: little town back in Germany was that people like these 63 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: other companies were starting to learn about this operation in 64 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: North America, this import operation, so I started getting sent 65 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: to me all these different samples like manicure sets and 66 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: sewing sissors, hair dressing scissors, kitchen knives, hunting knives, all 67 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: these different steel made products from this town. And I thought, okay, 68 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: well I'll start trying to sell this stuff and and 69 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: that stuff actually you know, would actually go It was 70 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: actually going well. Um, and then one day I got 71 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,839 Speaker 1: got this big box of stainless steel designer kitchenware, and 72 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: at fifteen years old, kitchen anything to do with the 73 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: kitchen was very uninteresting to me. But my dad, my 74 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: dad said he's like, well, want to just go and 75 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: take it to a you know, a couple of kitchen 76 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: stores and see what they think. Um. Anyway, long story short, 77 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: I was like the first one to bring Designers stainless 78 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: steel kitchenware into Canada. And so the business went through 79 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: the roof, and yeah, my dad came out of retirement. Um, 80 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: we turned their garage into a warehouse. I hired a 81 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: sales rep and you know, so it had a can 82 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: run like. It went for a few years and I 83 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: learned a lot about myself and business and and all 84 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: of that. But that was kind of my first foray 85 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: into entrepreneurship. I guess you could say it all started 86 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: with swords. I would have never imagined. So where did 87 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: you go after that? Once you started that journey being 88 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: an entrepreneur? What did you end up doing? Well? I 89 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: so it's kind of a yeah, that's a good question. 90 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: I mean my dream, I'll tell you this. My dream 91 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: was to become a creative writer. When I was that age, 92 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: when I thought that was going to be my life path, right. Um. 93 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: And so all throughout high school, you know, writing stories, 94 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: short stories, essays was my favorite thing. And so I remember, 95 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: you know, my first experience in university, and I was 96 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: again had this dream to become this creative writer. And 97 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: and I got this essay to that which said, you know, 98 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: like right about a place in the outdoors which has 99 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: impacted you deeply. And I thought, oh, this is like 100 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: the assignment of my dreams, right. I love the outdoors. 101 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: I love the mountains, love mountain climbing. So I just 102 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: poured my heart into it. I think I wrote the 103 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: best piece I had ever written. Um. I looked over 104 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: twice three times and handed it in a week later 105 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: got the piece of paper back. And when I got 106 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: it back, Um, there was this letter on it, which 107 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: was so foreign to me. I didn't actually know what 108 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: it was at first, and it was an f I 109 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: failed my first essay, my first assignment at university UM, 110 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: and so that was basically the beginning of the end 111 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: of my interest in taking creative writing because what was 112 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: happening was that was also the time where my business 113 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: was taking off. Right, So while I was kind of 114 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: struggling well, I basically felt like every the whole creative 115 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: writing program at university was trying to shove me in 116 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: a box. And then the more I looked into this 117 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: business faculty, UM, the more I discovered that it was 118 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: all about creating the box. You know, here's your blank canvas. 119 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: You know, we're innovating, we're changing the world where you know, 120 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: we're her nerves and and that to me was really exciting. 121 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: And because my business was doing well, I was you know, 122 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: it was something that I discovered I was, I was 123 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: fairly good at so anyway, I pivoted into that. But UM, 124 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: but yeah, where that where that went afterwards? UM was 125 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: I started looking at, you know, why some companies do 126 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: better than others, and what makes a great company and 127 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: why do you some you know, sort of survive the 128 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: test of time and and uh, and that kind of 129 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: got me interested in investing UM and so my mom, 130 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, I think I was too young at the time, 131 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: but she opened me one of those online trading accounts 132 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: where you could trade your own and you know, and 133 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: so I was found that that was something that I 134 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: was good at. So that kind of pulled me into 135 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: into that kind of direction. Well, I love that you. Actually, 136 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: I've never heard that term create the box. I think 137 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: that's a really interesting way to look at it. I've 138 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: never thought about starting businesses as being something where you're 139 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: actually just creating the box. You don't have to live 140 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: in a box, but you're creating it. I love that. Yeah, 141 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: but you didn't abandoned your creative writing because I found 142 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: you because of a book called A Story of Karma, 143 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: Finding Love and Truth and the Loss Valley of the Himalaya. 144 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: And so you've mentioned two things so far, you said, 145 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: the creative riding and then your love for mountain climbing. 146 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: So I want to know why do you climb because 147 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: to me, I don't have this desire. It's kind of 148 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: scary to me, honestly, and it seems very intense Um, 149 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: what do you get from that experience? Yeah, it's something 150 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: that I've been doing well. I was always into the 151 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: outdoors and in nature growing up on the West coast 152 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: here we have got lots of mountains around us. But 153 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: I remember, you know, when I was around seventeen years old, 154 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: I met this one experienced mountaineer and he took me 155 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: up this mountain um, and he you know, I had 156 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: no idea what I was doing at that age, but 157 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: he let me his crampons and spikes that you put 158 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: on your boots, and ice axe and harness and all 159 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: that stuff, and we went out climbed this mountain and 160 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: I remember like as we got towards the top of 161 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: the peak, Um, it was a very steep, sort of 162 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: icy snow slope, and I remember looking over my shoulder 163 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: and on the distant horizon where all these kind of 164 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: peaks of the sunrise was just coming up, and all 165 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: these peaks were being illuminated in like these purplish pink 166 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: orange hues. Uh, And I just I just struck me 167 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: in my core, and I thought, you know, there's this 168 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: whole world up here that's out of our site, out 169 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: of our day to day lives, and it's only accessible 170 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: by our will to climb, and and that to me 171 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: was just it. I never looked back. I just dove 172 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: into mountain climbing with full intensity. And you know, I 173 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: guess you could say that my relationship with the mountains 174 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: has changed over the years. You know, when I was younger, 175 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: it was much more about you know, getting out there, 176 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: you know, the intensity, like the summits all that stuff. 177 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: But now it's I mean, I love getting out into nature. 178 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: I still have the goal of getting up to the 179 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: top of things, but but it's not about that. It's 180 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: about the journey. It's about who I'm with, you know, 181 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: the company, the depth of the experience, you know, who 182 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: I've become along the way. So it's much more about 183 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: just being out there. Like I don't have that same 184 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: drive to like, you know, I gotta get you to 185 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: the top of some that well. I mentioned the book, 186 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: and in the book you start talking about all the 187 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: climbs that you're doing, and then the ultimate climb of 188 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: climbing the valley of the Himalaya. But you um talk 189 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: about climbing as a spiritual experience. And I had took 190 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: I took a picture of something your friends said um, 191 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: you said, you wrote, Joe wasn't religious, but he was 192 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: deeply spiritual. He wants said it's better to be in 193 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: the mountains thinking about God than to be in the 194 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: church thinking about the mountains. And I loved that. And 195 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: you said, when I'm climbing the mountain is a part 196 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: of me, and I'm a part of the mountain, it 197 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: just becomes a spiritual experience. Can you talk us through 198 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: a little bit about that? For sure? Yeah, for sure. 199 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: And that's not to take anything about a way about 200 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: going to church or anything but that for those But 201 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: but Joe, you know, he's so he's the one that 202 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: took me up the mountain that first time. But um, 203 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: but what I noticed the more I got out there 204 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: was that you know what I mean, what I mean 205 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: by that, you know we are part of nature is 206 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: that you know, we are nature, right, and the more 207 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: we connect with it and have that very visceral experience, 208 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: the more we connect actually with ourselves. Um. You know, 209 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: so being out there nature, it heightens the sensitivities, it 210 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: opens the awareness, It connects me with myself, um, connects 211 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: me with others. Um. So I think just practicing that 212 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: awareness by being out there has um has shaped me 213 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: into who I am today. Do you have one lesson 214 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: you could take away? I know this is such a 215 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: broad question, but do you have one lesson that you 216 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: could take away from your actual climbing experiences as a 217 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: spiritual journey, um, of something that you just will never forget. 218 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: M Yeah, I think there's well, there's two things that 219 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: just sort of popped into my mind. Um. One is 220 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: this idea that we are just such a small part 221 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: of the big picture, right, Yes, I think, you know, 222 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: we all have our own lives, and we've got our 223 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 1: own things that we're doing, and very busy and whatnot. 224 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: But and so we can somehow sometimes we can put 225 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: the blinders on and think that that's the way life is. 226 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: But but being out there in the mountains, it's kind 227 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: of a reminder that we're actually like this tiny, tiny, 228 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: tiny speck in this much larger complex picture that's moving 229 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: and shaping all the time. And and and I think 230 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: that's a very important thing to keep in mind, right, 231 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: just to to help not put those blinders on, Which 232 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: was an important point to you know, where the conversation 233 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: will go in terms of what happened in the Himalaya. 234 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: Um But then the other thing that that I would 235 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: say just comes to mind is, um, this idea that 236 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: do not get too tied into expectations. Um, you know, 237 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: to adapt with you know, sometimes you know how we 238 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: have an idea that we get so fixated on and 239 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter where that idea comes from. I mean, 240 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: it could come from our our society, like our community, 241 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: could come from our parents or the values that we 242 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: were raised with. But sometimes we get so fixated on 243 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: this idea that this is what our life should look like. 244 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: And then you know, how often does that align with reality? Right? Um? 245 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,479 Speaker 1: So I think they're the gap between reality and expectation 246 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: is where suffering happens. So what the mountains have taught 247 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: me it's a lot about Yeah, Okay, it's okay to 248 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: go out with a goal or an intention, but just 249 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: don't get too attached to the outcome, right, be kind 250 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: of fluent, be fluid, be um uh sort of be 251 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: prepared to adapt as as whatever happens, you know, uh evolves, right, 252 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: not just be fixated. Oh I gotta do this one thing. Yeah. 253 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: I have a friend who described that as just stay 254 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: in the flow. Like you said, it's good to have 255 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: the intentions to set your goals, but to know that, 256 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: I mean, life is still going to happen exactly exactly. Yeah, So, 257 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: and I think that's that's been I would say that's 258 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: the other big lesson from the mountains I've I've practiced 259 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: over the years. Yeah, I love that. I get the 260 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: same feeling when I go anywhere near the ocean. It's 261 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: just it's so big and so that and then I 262 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: see these creatures that I don't see, you know, like 263 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: like a squirrel just ran by me, and I don't 264 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: see those that I don't see whales every day, like 265 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: in an ocean, and so it makes you feel so 266 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: small to have that experience. I love that feeling. Actually, yeah, totally. Yeah, 267 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: It's a good reminder of the world we live in, right, 268 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: I mean, just that there's so much beauty, so much goodness, 269 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: so much you know whatever out there, and it's important to, yeah, 270 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: to not get too granular in our where we live. 271 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: I find it very hopeful too, because it's just there's 272 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: so much there's never ending supply of stuff, you know, 273 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: we do we do. Um. I love that you and 274 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: your wife Chantelle correct y'all do this together, which I 275 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: think is such an awesome bonding experience I can imagine. 276 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: But um, I do want to speak specifically of your 277 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: journey in the Himalaya that you guys went on together, 278 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: because you all have done many climes, I think is 279 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,719 Speaker 1: what you said in the book, right, and this one 280 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: in particular seemed a little different though, especially from her experience. Yeah, 281 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: I mean, Shantell, she's she's wonderful like she um, she was, 282 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: you know, she loves the outdoors. And but for her 283 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: when we met, when we started dating, she wasn't really 284 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: she didn't have that intensity of needing to climb like 285 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: I did back then. We were you know, younger back then. 286 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: But but but she loved getting out in the mountains, right. 287 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: So so she's quite strong. So she kind of, you know, 288 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: would start climbing these bigger peaks, um, and she would 289 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: set her own objectives in terms of, you know, climbing 290 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: Mount Kilimanjaro for example, in Tanzania and in Piko doi 291 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: Zava in Mexico. So I think, you know, these big 292 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: mountains and I thought, you know, I mean, you don't 293 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: need to twist my arm to climb anything, but we 294 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: can and uh, and so but you know, the great 295 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: thing about Shantala is that she she always wanted to 296 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: kind of do these big expeditions, not only for herself, right, 297 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: because climbing can be very you know, very solo or 298 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: selfish thing, but she wanted to do it for others, right, 299 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: So she thought, you know, can we can we maybe 300 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: raise some money through these things, or can we helped 301 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: you know, others who can't get out there into nature. 302 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: And so that's what we started doing, and then it 303 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: led to uh, back in this was back in eleven, 304 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: it led to that meeting with that gentleman mick Um 305 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: in the restaurant, and he had just come back from Nepal. 306 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: He'd been trekking in Nepal off and on for over 307 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: twenty years. Uh, and he went into like some of 308 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: the most obscure valleys, like they just offshoots, the places 309 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: that people didn't really know um and so he had 310 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: just come back and and he, you know, he kind 311 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: of saw my passion about Nepal. Right, I don't know, 312 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know at that time, but I'm 313 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: just like, Nepal was this place that was very deeply 314 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: rooted inside of me. I just had to go there. 315 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: And so he said, Mike, I gotta, I gotta tell 316 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: you about this little valley called the Lost Valley of 317 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: nur Fou and uh. And then he kept talking about it. 318 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: But I had already tuned out because I was like, 319 00:15:52,920 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: you had me until and then Sean Talent, you know, 320 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: she was there and she was kind of you know, 321 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: he kept he was looking. We were looking at the 322 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: pictures and and Shantana was getting into We thought, how 323 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: these are pictures like, Um, you know, this is something 324 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: I didn't know that places like that still existed in 325 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: the world because these this valley had been closed off 326 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: to the outside world for generations and um, and it 327 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: had just been opened up a few years before that. Um. 328 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: But the people there when we were, when we were 329 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: looking at the pictures, they looked like, you know, the 330 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: same way that they had been living for the last 331 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: eight hundred years, right. Um. You know in that valley 332 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: there's yeah, no electricity, no at that time, no not 333 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: even any toilets, you know, days away from the nearest road, 334 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: no healthcare or outside education or anything like that. The 335 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: people are semi nomadic, um, you know, moving with the 336 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: seasons and and you know, all their own stuff, like 337 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: their clothes and food, you know, a lot of that. 338 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: Most of that they they're self sufficient with. So um yeah, 339 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: no communication with the outside world. So it's just um. 340 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: I thought, wow, this is amazing um. And and then 341 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: Mickey also said that because now the valley was open, um, 342 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: it was going to be experiencing some unprecedented change. So 343 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: you know, because now people more people will go in 344 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: and and you know, so I thought, well, let's um 345 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: chantal and I we kind of put our heads together. 346 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: We thought, well, let's let's put a little team together 347 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: of artists, a musician, a photographer, a nature artist, um, 348 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: and we'll see if we can learn and observe from 349 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: the people there and sort of capture a moment in time, 350 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: you know, before things changed too much. UM. So that 351 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: was kind of, you know what the seed of that, 352 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: the whole expedition there. Um. And then I came across 353 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: that picture of that this pyramid mountain, just like this 354 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,959 Speaker 1: white pyramid coming out of the earth. Ah, and I 355 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: thought that just was it for me. I thought, yeah, 356 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: I gotta go try and find this and climb this. Yeah. 357 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: And then I was it was interesting to me though 358 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: that you guys have done as before and then as 359 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,479 Speaker 1: you started on the journey, which I want to hear 360 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: more about the group that you guys and travel with. 361 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: But as you started on the journey, she started to 362 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: get fairly like exhausted, migraines, all of these things. Why 363 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: was this experience so different for her than your experience 364 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: because you were thriving, right, You're like, this is living 365 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: my best life. Yeah, I think you know. Well, one 366 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: thing with Sean tell us that she has been getting 367 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: sure she had been getting these severe migraine attacks since 368 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: she was very young, and and she didn't understand why 369 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,640 Speaker 1: at that time, but but later in life she kind 370 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: of figured it out that it was actually a stress response, right. 371 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: And I mean, I've never had a migraine attack like that, 372 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: but I think a lot of people have. And yeah, 373 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: I get them, or do you? Yeah, you just have 374 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: to lie down, right for down for the count right yeah. Yeah. 375 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: So so chantell Um, she would get these attacks from 376 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: time to time, and and she just happened to get 377 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: one while we were out there, and we were out there. 378 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: We're gonna be out there for weeks, right, um, and 379 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: we're in the middle of the mountains at that point. 380 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: We were just coming into that lost valley. Um a 381 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: few days in and she gets hit with one of 382 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: these like severe severe migraines migraine attacks, and and I 383 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: had seen her, I mean, this was one of the 384 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: bad ones, Like I had seen her like that before, 385 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: where her just almost like her shoulders, like her entire 386 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: the muscles on her spine just everything ceases up and 387 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: you know, just just pounding right in the head and 388 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: she can't eat otherwise make her vomit and all this stuff. Right, 389 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: So I'm just like, oh my goodness, so we Um. 390 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: I didn't know what was going to happen. I thought, 391 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: you know, are we gonna like, are we gonna have 392 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: to turn around? And and uh, and I thought this 393 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: might be the end of the road for me. Um. 394 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: I didn't know. I didn't really talk about it with 395 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: the team because I thought, you know, there's I just 396 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: didn't want to scare everybody at that point, and you know, 397 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: just the fact that we might have to go back 398 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: and um and whether we have to like split everything up. 399 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: But but I knew that there was this little place 400 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: where we could rest for two days, and and I thought, 401 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: you know, let's just go there and see how Chantal does. 402 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: And Unfortunately she was able to kind of fight through 403 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 1: it and get better. But but yeah, it was it was. Yeah, 404 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: it was a tough experience. I mean, I think she 405 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: at that point, we had come off, you know, a 406 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: couple of big expeditions and a lot of climbing, and 407 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: I think she just wanted to sit in a beach 408 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: chair somewhere. I was. I was just about to get 409 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: to that point because I first of all, found a 410 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 1: dynamic between just how different the experiences were for the 411 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: both of you, Like you were getting energized by the 412 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 1: climb and just the surroundings. And I just understand that 413 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: dynamic so much of being in the space where you're like, yeah, 414 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: this is cool and all, but like I'm dying here 415 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: like this, you know. And and I loved what she 416 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: said though, because the migrant is a physical sensation, but 417 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: what she was experiencing, like you said, was a stress response. 418 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: And so she said, Um, I wrote down the quote here. 419 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 1: She said. You know, I feel like I'm always driving 420 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: at a new goal, a new mountain, a new challenge, 421 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: and my true self has known for the past three 422 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: years that what I truly need is a few weeks 423 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: in a lawn chair with a book to read and 424 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: all that stuff that she knew she realized it was 425 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: her ego driving her. And I just think that the 426 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: body mind connection is so fascinating that it would respond 427 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: that way. It's it's huge, it's everything, right, that the 428 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: whole connection, And I think tapping into that because sometimes 429 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: what she even found was, you know, stress, we we 430 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: sometimes we look at as a negative thing, right, but 431 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: stress can also be from a positive like if you 432 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: get over excited. I mean, for example, she was out 433 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: partying or having like a big social event or something 434 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: that could also drive her nervous system into you know, 435 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: this stress response, right and then causing migraine and to 436 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: shut everything down. So yeah, it's just but back then 437 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: we didn't know that, right, So we're trying to manage 438 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: that as best as we could. Yeah, but this is 439 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: another example of what an actual just a climb on 440 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: a mountain can teach you so much about life in general, 441 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: and about our bodies and just our mental capacity for 442 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: certain things or why we're doing what we're doing. I 443 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: just think the whole spiritual aspect behind all of this 444 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 1: is so fascinating. Yeah, yeah, I know for sure, And yeah, 445 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: you're right, it kind of opens up those deeper um 446 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: you know, that that deeper awareness of connecting with your 447 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: true self, like you know, like you like you read 448 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: there in the passage like Okay, well what what do 449 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: I really want? Like what is my soul want? What 450 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: is my head want? But like what is my what 451 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: is good for my soul right now? And I think 452 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: that's that's an important thing to look at. So how 453 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: did you shake? Because sorry, I'm fascinated about this dynamic 454 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: for relationships. How did you shake the like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, 455 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: we can't stop because like your soul was being fed, right, 456 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 1: and so of course you would want to continue. How 457 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,479 Speaker 1: would you not resent your partner in that capacity or 458 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: that situation? Well, I mean yeah, I mean I was 459 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: struggling right for for at least two or two days 460 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: while it was everything was going going on. And I 461 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: remember there was this one moment where we stopped in 462 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: this one little settlement where um, where we were going 463 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: to stay for those two days, and and I was 464 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: out there walking under the night sky and I was 465 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: just kind of like thinking, oh, what's going to happen here? 466 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: And it was the most beautiful nights guy, I've ever 467 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: seen you know, you could see the galaxy is just 468 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: the you know, the purplish hues of the milky Way, 469 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: and the planets pulsated and all that. And I thought 470 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 1: to myself, you know, maybe this is it. Maybe this 471 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: is the farthest I'm gonna get here in this in 472 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: this valley. And and then and then what was happening though? 473 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: Our group, like our little group there, they started playing 474 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: this song that I could hear from the tent because 475 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: it was totally quiet, so they were they're blaring out 476 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: this music of this. Um. I don't know if you 477 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: know the band Blue Rodeo. It's this kind of country rock. Okay, okay, okay, 478 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: Blue Rodeo. It's the song is called Lost Together, um. 479 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: And and the lyrics, you know, one of the lyrics goes, 480 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: if we're lost, then we're all lost together. And and 481 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, maybe that's true, Like maybe 482 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: there's no point in me stressing about what's going to 483 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: happen here. We're all lost here in a way in 484 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: this valley. Um. I mean not physically lost, but just 485 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 1: you know, kind of figuring ourselves out. And and and 486 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: that's okay because we're together. Uh. And so I thought, 487 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: you know, as long as we sort of stick together 488 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: then and that's that's the important thing. And we're having 489 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: this beautiful experience here and if I if this is it, 490 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 1: if this night is it with these people, some good 491 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: friends here, people who become good friends. I mean, this 492 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: is much farther than I've ever made it before. So 493 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm okay with that. And if we have 494 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: to go down, you know, we'll go down. Yeah. I've 495 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 1: read a lot about the different relationships you kind of 496 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: got through on your way, and I want to talk 497 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: a little bit about the group. Like I said, I 498 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: do feel like you are a kindred spirit of mine 499 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: and the value that you place on human connection like 500 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: that as such a teacher for me is what I 501 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: learned from other people. That's why I love doing these interviews, 502 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 1: is just because connecting with someone on any sort of 503 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: spiritual level, it's constantly teaching me something about myself. You know. 504 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: So tell us about the group that you guys decided 505 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: to climb with. Well, yeah, I mean it was funny 506 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: because it was a total mash up, right, I mean, 507 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: if you put us next, you know, we had this 508 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: um this cowboy. Uh, you know, you were like this 509 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 1: brown cowboy hat with his handlebar mustache, and and then 510 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: this musician, you know, he's kind of like a neo 511 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: hippie with blonde hair wrapped in a purple bandanna and goatee, 512 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: and and you know this Polish professor and yeah, but 513 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: you know, but we were all drawn there with this 514 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: kind of vision of going into this place and and 515 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: sort of you know, looking at it or observing it 516 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 1: through our own unique artistic lenses, right. Um, So I 517 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: think we kind of found even though we were very different, 518 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: we didn't really know each other that well beforehand, um, 519 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: but but coming together sort of united by this common 520 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: vision um was. Yeah. It was a pretty special group 521 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: for or and I think that's part of what what 522 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 1: what also helped Shawntal get through that because you know, 523 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: we're just they're lighthearted, you know again, like you mentioned, 524 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: connecting very deeply on that human level and and and 525 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: that does something to us right when we think it's well, 526 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: you may have already answered this question this next question 527 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: too when you were telling about them playing the song 528 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: and what that you know kind of brought out for you. 529 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: But was there one big takeaway from those relationships that 530 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: you formed and after like going through such an intense 531 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: experience together that you still think about today. Um, well, 532 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,479 Speaker 1: it definitely influenced it began there, um, but it definitely 533 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: influenced the importance at place on on human connection because 534 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: like I mentioned earlier, you know, the climb. For me, 535 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: it was more so about you know, very sort of 536 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: intense experience of climbing something very physical, very you know 537 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: and sort of um, you know, like all my senses 538 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: were kind of working at it, but like being there 539 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: with that special group of people, not only there, but 540 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: you know in other instances as well, it just kind 541 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: of allowed me to to think about, you know, what 542 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: is actually really important here in life? And I think, 543 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 1: you know, this idea of connecting very deep with people, 544 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: having that experience, like that depth of experience, right, um, 545 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: and nothing can replace that, Like that's what life is about, 546 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: is about connecting deeply with others and and and kind 547 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: of you know, seeing them for who they are and 548 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: and them seeing you for who you are. I think 549 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: is uh, you know, without that sort of that judgment 550 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: or pretense or anything like that. I think that's what 551 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: makes life so so beautiful. Ain't got me a little 552 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: checked out? Well? I wonder too, before this experience, did 553 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: you find yourself more drawn to the accomplishment of climbing 554 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: versus the actual human connection piece of this for sure. Yeah. 555 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: Well it's funny that you asked that, because if you 556 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 1: if you look at the intention that we set when 557 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: we were going out there, it was about the human connection, right, Um. 558 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: But when I saw that mountain, I was the mountain 559 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: kind of clouded my judgment, if you will, Right. It 560 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: kind of came from that more of that ego place 561 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: or the small mind or whatever you want to call it. 562 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: And so that kind of clouded this intention that we 563 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 1: had set from the get go. Um. And that came 564 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: to terms in the you know, in the middle of 565 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: the journey, right when when things started blowing up in 566 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: my face and and you know, the dream of climbing 567 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: the mountains crushed before my eyes and all that stuff. Um, yeah, 568 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: I just came head to hit like those that goal, 569 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: if we can label it like that, like that goal 570 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: ego driven goal versus intention life intention came head to 571 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: head and literally forced me to make a choice of what, 572 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,959 Speaker 1: you know, what was more important. The ego and the 573 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: flow of life do not seem to get along my experience. 574 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: So I love the reminder to stay in the flow 575 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: because anytime to ego for me is driving I am 576 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: going to bump up and against a lot of just explosions. 577 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: Like you said, I think things falling apart, and we 578 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: are feeling like they are, and really they're falling right 579 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: into place typically, but yeah, hard to see it that way. 580 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: You're right, because I think, uh, I think when things 581 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: like that happened, you know, yes, we might be feeling 582 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: distraught about like why is this being crushed or why 583 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: is this happening this way? But what it also does 584 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: is it opens up, you know, another way to see things, 585 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: like Okay, well maybe there's a different way I should 586 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: be going, right, So instead of trying to force against something, 587 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: maybe there's a gravitational pull into a different direction. And 588 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: that was what was happening there in the mountains, Like 589 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: everything inside of me was wanted to, you know, go 590 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: forward to the mountain, but everything outside and he was 591 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: guiding me in this different direction and direction I didn't 592 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: know where, but but I chose again, I guess we 593 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: don't want to give too much away in the book, 594 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: but like I chose to trust in that um and 595 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: then the kind of the the environment or those um, 596 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: those sick science. Uh. You know, what was happened was 597 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: unfolding in my environment. I chose to trust in that 598 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: guiding um, and it led me to the most beautiful, 599 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: meaningful experience of my life. But I didn't know that 600 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: at the time. Right at the time, I felt like 601 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,719 Speaker 1: I was in the middle of a tornado or something. Yeah, exactly. 602 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: I want to talk vaguely about your experience because, as 603 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: we mentioned, you and I talked before and I was like, 604 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: this is the hard part of doing book interviews is 605 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: because I want people to go read the book. So 606 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to give too much away, but I 607 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: do want to mention. Um. You know, there's a lot 608 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: of people you guys met along your journey that I 609 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: think sort of influenced or had an impact on your 610 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: thought process about out that specific journey. But the main 611 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: one was a little girl named Karma. So can you 612 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: just describe the listeners, Uh, kind of your meeting of 613 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: Karma and and I love the fact that that's her name. 614 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: I mean, what in the world it's like how um, 615 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: But then also just kind of what you learned from 616 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: meeting her mm hmm, Yeah, that was. That was a 617 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: very I mean, that was one of the most important 618 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: encounters of my life. Um. We had. It was actually 619 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: at the tail end of the journey, and we went 620 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: to this other there's two main villages in this whole valley, 621 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: and one is Food and the other one was called Nar, 622 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: and Nar was the one that we visited last. And 623 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: had I gone to them, like had I tried to 624 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: force them Mountain, um, I would not have gone there. 625 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: I just would have bypassed the whole place. But because 626 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: we had this extra time, I thought, Okay, well let's 627 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: go visit this this little village called Nard, and we 628 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: you know, we discovered that they had a little stone 629 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: school there. Um. Everywhere else that we had been in 630 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: that whole valley over the weeks, um, there were no school, 631 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: Like there was no outside education for these kids. And 632 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: I learned, I mean, some of the things I had 633 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: learned was that by the time these kids are are 634 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: six five six years old, they have to start working, 635 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: you know, in the fields, very hard labor. Um. You know, 636 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: oftentimes girls at the ages at that time, at the 637 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: age of fifteen sixteen, they would start getting married, you know, 638 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: having their own families. Um. You know, infant mortality rates 639 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: were really high. Two out of five children typically died 640 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: before the age of five. So, so all these things, 641 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: and then I learned there was also a very important 642 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: UM phrase that I learned from the people there, which 643 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: was they rather their kids have a pencil in the 644 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: hand versus a strap around the forehead because Napolis they 645 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: carry the way, you know, they don't carry like the 646 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: backpack we have, they carried around the forehead. So so 647 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: they kind of feel like they want their kids to 648 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: have outside education wherever possible because it just gives them 649 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: more choice right in life. And so, UM, so I 650 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: had all these thoughts kind of you know, in my 651 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: mind floating around and and when we discovered there's this 652 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: little stone school there, and so I thought, you know, 653 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: let's go check it out. We get to this school 654 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: and there's these seventeen kids. Um. They had pulled the 655 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: benches out because it's too cold and dark in the 656 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: classrooms and and so they were in the warmth of 657 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: the sun and the light of the sun. Um. And 658 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: at the head of the class was this little seven 659 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: year old girl, UM teaching English numbers. And something just 660 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: kind of struck me about her. I don't know what 661 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: I mean. We had seen hundreds of kids, you know, 662 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: up until that point, but there was something I almost 663 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: recognized in a way about her, not not physically recognized, 664 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: but energetically recognized. Um. Something that was yeah, like a soul, 665 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: like almost like family, like familiar right that there's like, whoa, 666 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: what's going on with this little girl there? And and 667 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: the fact that she was teaching was okay, that's interesting. 668 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: And and anyway, we found the teacher and he was 669 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: kind of looming in the back, and we learned that 670 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: he had kind of come from a totally different part 671 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: of Nepal And and he felt like because he was 672 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: so far away from his own people and family, he 673 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: felt like he m he was managed to the end 674 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: of the earth, he told us. Um, so maybe that's 675 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: why she was up there teaching. But but then the 676 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: kids they caught sight of the musician. His guitar was 677 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: slung over his shoulder and they've never seen a guitar before, 678 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 1: you know, let alone heard one. Um. So they were 679 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: kind of you could tell. The kids were like, oh, 680 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 1: can you know, can you play some music? And Michael 681 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: the musician, he's um, you know, he's quite an entertainer. 682 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: So he gets up there and he starts teaching them 683 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: some music and and before long, these kids are just 684 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: like getting right into their singing and dancing and and 685 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: moving to the music and and so and then then 686 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: I guess the teacher he got motivated, and so he 687 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: brought out of this little drum and he wanted the 688 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: kids to line up and dance in front of us, 689 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: one at a time, and which which was kind of odd. 690 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: And he started with this little girl who had been 691 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: so confident in teaching, right. Um, he told her to dance. 692 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: He's like, dance in front of these people, and and 693 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: you could just see her. She was just like petrified, um, 694 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: almost internally starting to cry um. And Chantal she couldn't 695 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: take it. And she just marched up there next to 696 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 1: this little girl and uh, and started doing her best 697 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 1: impression of this Napali dance with her arms like waving around. 698 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: And Chantelle didn't know what she was really doing. But 699 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: but the little girl forgot about everybody watching um and 700 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,879 Speaker 1: just started focusing. The two of them focused on each other, 701 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: and just it was like almost like these two if 702 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: you can imagine, like these two little spirits kind of 703 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: dancing with each other, UM in front of these like 704 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: seven thousand meter peaks, and UM, it was the most 705 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: beautiful thing, honestly that you know that I've seen. Sorry 706 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: get you to make me cry? Yeah. And after that, UM, 707 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,760 Speaker 1: the kids after school got out of the kids found 708 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 1: where we were, where we were, and this little girl 709 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: she came dashing in, UM just leaped into Chantel's arms, 710 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: UM and Gavetella, she told me afterwards, like the biggest 711 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: heart to heart hug she had ever felt. And and 712 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: then she turned to me and she leaped into my arms. 713 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: And I'll never forget the moment she her little hands 714 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: just grabbing the back of my neck, and the force 715 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: which hit me, it was just like not in the 716 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: physical force, but just the force of the love. And 717 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: I just thought, wow. Actually it was in that one 718 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: half a second moment where I thought, I thought came 719 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: to me that was which was this is the reason 720 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: why I'm here in the Himalaya. And and so that 721 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: kind of, you know, was the spark that that sort 722 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,720 Speaker 1: of set into a whole, you know, a whole series 723 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: of things in motion. UM. And and this is all 724 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,359 Speaker 1: back in UM. But for the next nine years we've 725 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: been growing our relationship with we found out the little 726 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 1: girl's name is Karma, and then her sister Pemba and 727 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: their family. We've been growing our our families together, um 728 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 1: and just kind of almost co parenting right with their parents. UM. 729 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: You know, these two worlds coming together because mixed prediction 730 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: back in the restaurant back in was true that as 731 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: this valley had opened, the modern world rushed into it. Right, 732 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 1: And so all these questions, you know, we're coming out like, well, 733 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: how do you how do we help this little girl 734 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: who has such a an interest, such a passion for learning, 735 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: um and working with her parents and doing it in 736 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: a way that where she doesn't lose control over her 737 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: own cultural identity um, you know, so that they that 738 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: she can retain control over who she is, um, you know, 739 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: from a cultural standpoint. So so these are all the 740 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: things that started coming around and and and we worked 741 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: with the parents over over yeah, nine years to to 742 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: kind of you know, be there, kind of like both 743 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: parents sort of speak, kind of came together, um, to 744 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,760 Speaker 1: do what we could for these two little girls, Carmen 745 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: or sister Pemba. And and it's just been you had 746 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: the most beautiful, beautiful journey what are the schools like 747 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,320 Speaker 1: in Nepal, Because I know you talk a lot about 748 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: this in the book, and it was you guys kind 749 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 1: of went on this hunt to really uh enhance their lives, 750 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: as you're just describing, and so before or maybe without 751 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: giving all the details the way of what happened, I 752 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: just want to know what the situation so people can 753 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,280 Speaker 1: understand the difference between maybe our experiences versus what's happening 754 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: over there. Yeah. So, um, well, first of all, in 755 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: those villages, there's no access to schools. I mean that 756 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: Little Stone school scratched the service and maybe grade one. 757 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: So for any child who wants an outside education, like 758 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: outside of their village, um, you know. And again and 759 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: remember that in the village there's no not even any 760 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 1: books right at that time, not even any means of 761 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: getting news or internet or anything. Things have changed a 762 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 1: little bit now, but but at that time, Yeah, besides 763 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: from the scriptures in their monastery, there was no reading 764 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: or you know, nothing like that. So um, so we 765 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: we knew that when we went. When we left, you know, 766 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: we had this meeting with the parents and or with 767 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: the mom because the father was out with the acts 768 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: at that time. But but when we went out away, 769 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: we we knew that we had to find a school 770 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: that was aligned with Karma's ethnicity because in nepal Is 771 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: they've got many, many different ethnicities all together, and in 772 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: the urban centers, um, they're actually more Hindu and they 773 00:39:58,120 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: operate more on this what they called, you know, this 774 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,280 Speaker 1: ask system where where people in the mountains are actually 775 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: deemed on the low end of the cast. So if 776 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: Karma was placed in any government school, there could be 777 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: rise for severe racial discrimination. Um. And plus you know, 778 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,399 Speaker 1: we wanted to make sure that her Tibetan, because they're 779 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: more Tibetan in the mountains. We want to make sure 780 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: Tibetan roots are kind of you know fostered as well. 781 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: So so these were all important things and important for 782 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: her parents and and so um, So that was kind of, 783 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that we were looking at. 784 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 1: But but yeah, napaul I mean it is the third 785 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,280 Speaker 1: poorest country in Asia. Um Kaman used the most polluted 786 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: city in the world by air pollution. So it's it's 787 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: not like here where you just okay, let's look at 788 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: the schools that are available, because it's like you got 789 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: a register by kindergarten. Again, the school you want, Like 790 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 1: it's like to have these amazing schools, but the options 791 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: are very endless. It seems like, are they're great options? 792 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: You know, that's not how this is in Nepal. Yeah, 793 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 1: I know, things things are very different. And and yeah, 794 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: to even get Karmen down because again, it had to 795 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: be a very safe boarding school and and you know, 796 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: and she was going to be in that school, like 797 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: living in the school, and and you know, I know that, uh, 798 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: child trafficking, for example, is is a huge problem over there, right, 799 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 1: kids getting traffic to India and then they're never found again. 800 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: So you know, all these things were kind of you know, 801 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: were things that we were thinking about. And um, so yeah, 802 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: it is it's going to be the right education, Is 803 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 1: it going to be counturally aligned, Is it going to 804 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 1: be safe for like you know it was yeah, and 805 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 1: and and Katmando, you know in the valley they've got 806 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: millions of people, right, so it's a bustling sort of 807 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,719 Speaker 1: you know place as well. So yeah, I mean it 808 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't easy to find the right school. I 809 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: mean that's a whole other story. But but yeah, we 810 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,880 Speaker 1: were able to finally find the best school I think 811 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,800 Speaker 1: we could have found her. Yeah, I love I loved 812 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,760 Speaker 1: reading about the dynamic of y'all's relationship with that family 813 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: and her sister and her and just what you've learned? 814 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,839 Speaker 1: What is there one thing if you could really nail 815 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 1: down one thing that she specifically has taught you that 816 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: you're walking away with. Could you know that I've learned many, 817 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: many and my mind has expanded so much through through 818 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: those two little girls. You know, I would have to 819 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: say it's something to do with kind of what we 820 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: talked about at the beginning, just seeing somebody for who 821 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: they're trying to see somebody for who they are, right, Um, 822 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: kind of not bringing my own lens and judgment onto them, 823 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 1: because you know, sometimes we have expectations for people or 824 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 1: or you know, whether it's a child or or another 825 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: person in our lives. But to practice true acceptance of 826 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: who that person is and then supporting them in that right, 827 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,840 Speaker 1: not trying to shape them or or have this expectation, 828 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,839 Speaker 1: but supporting them and who they are and allowing them 829 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,879 Speaker 1: to be who they are. Um. I think that's one 830 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: of the most yeah, important things when we're when we're 831 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 1: when we're talking about yeah, children or others in our lives. 832 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 1: I think that's such a difficult thing in a in 833 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: a relationship dynamic in general, because we all come to 834 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 1: relationships with our own stuff, if you want to call 835 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 1: it that. But like I find myself and my relationships 836 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 1: projecting a lot of like, no, you have to be 837 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,360 Speaker 1: this way because it's what I need or you know 838 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,799 Speaker 1: what I'm saying, and like that isn't really fair to 839 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: allowing a person to thrive on their own journey and 840 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:43,320 Speaker 1: exactly be who they are or anything like that, right right, Yeah, no, exactly, 841 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,759 Speaker 1: And it's almost sometimes and we almost sometimes we do 842 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 1: it out of love sometimes too, write because oh this 843 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,840 Speaker 1: is the best for that, the best right now, specific 844 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: especially for a child if it's your own child, even 845 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 1: like you know, oh, I know the best for you, 846 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: or this is the best way, but it's like, is 847 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: that the best way? You know, that's the best way 848 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 1: for you, But maybe that's not the best way for them. 849 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 1: Maybe they're a totally different persons, right, Yeah, what a 850 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: good That's a great lesson to to get out of 851 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 1: being around children specifically. I think, um, so can you 852 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: tell people where they could possibly go help with the 853 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 1: schooling system or is there anything that we can do 854 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:26,759 Speaker 1: from a very privileged country to go help out for sure, Yeah, 855 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: I know they're so. The school that that carmine ER's 856 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,800 Speaker 1: sister ended up getting into UM in Nepal is called 857 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,279 Speaker 1: the Shrimngel Did School for Himalayan Children SMD School for 858 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 1: Himalayan Children and the website is just Himalayan Children dot 859 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: org UM and they have five kids all from the 860 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: mountain they called they called them the Lost Children of 861 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 1: the Himalaya because they're in these similar places to where 862 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: Karma is from, just these really really far out villages 863 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: that are just so far out that they just get 864 00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: forgotten about UM. And so that was actually the founder 865 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,560 Speaker 1: of the school. He's he led Tibet in the fifties. 866 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:06,200 Speaker 1: He's a Tibetan lama, high ranking monk and um and 867 00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: he started this school specifically to help these children UM 868 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,719 Speaker 1: so that they could then help their own villages. So 869 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: there's kind of like this circular effect, right, So that 870 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 1: would be one way I know that they're constantly looking 871 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 1: for UM, you know, for outside sponsorship for for students 872 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 1: or for kids who are coming in UM. So that 873 00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 1: would be that would be a good way. Um. Yeah, no, 874 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,239 Speaker 1: and just I think, you know, it's good to learn 875 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,600 Speaker 1: about these different ways in the world, right, I mean, 876 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: they're they're all the kids aren't like kids. I mean, 877 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. There's places in North America as well 878 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: where where there's kids struggling to get you know, access 879 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 1: to education, that sort of thing. So it's not we 880 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,520 Speaker 1: don't have to go far away, you know, for that, 881 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: but wherever we choose to focus on, it's important I 882 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,400 Speaker 1: think to recognize that not all kids are you know, 883 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,440 Speaker 1: have equal access right and you know, what can we 884 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: do to to help with that? I think it's an 885 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: important thing. Yeah, I think education and I think I 886 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: grew up with the teacher for a mom so I 887 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,239 Speaker 1: think that was presented to me very early. But I'll 888 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,200 Speaker 1: also now see all the opportunities that it can open 889 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: up for people, um, that we so often take for granted. 890 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 1: I feel so um anyway that we can help, we 891 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: want to do that. But um, okay, Well, the book 892 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 1: is called a Story of Karma, Finding Love and Truth 893 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 1: in the Lost Valley of the Himalaya. Michael, thank you 894 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 1: so much for sharing all of the insight that you 895 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,439 Speaker 1: walked away from that clime with today. That was really 896 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,760 Speaker 1: it was very fulfilling for me to read the book, 897 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: but also just to hear about your experiences and what 898 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,759 Speaker 1: you learned on that journey. Thank you very much, Kelly. Yeah, 899 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,000 Speaker 1: I know, it's uh. I really appreciate you to talk 900 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:40,759 Speaker 1: with you here and and the work that you're doing 901 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,359 Speaker 1: as well. And um, yeah, I know, it's been a great, 902 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,120 Speaker 1: great conversation here, and I'm gonna link the book in 903 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 1: the description of this podcast. You guys highly recommend it. 904 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,799 Speaker 1: We just touched on the things that he experienced on 905 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,640 Speaker 1: this journey, but um, you can get all the details 906 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,720 Speaker 1: and then of course you can find out what happened 907 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: to Karma and her sister and just the way the 908 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 1: relationship completely evolved. I love reading about that as well, 909 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,759 Speaker 1: so I'll put the description in the bio. You guys 910 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,120 Speaker 1: go check it out. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening 911 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,880 Speaker 1: to the Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, where we 912 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,680 Speaker 1: believe everyone has a little velvet and a little edge. 913 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:19,280 Speaker 1: Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. 914 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,960 Speaker 1: Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.