WEBVTT - The Science of Scary Music 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.400 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of My 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:16.200 Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.439 My name is Joe McCormick, and my regular co host 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.600 Robert Lamb is not with us today. He's he's out 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.799 on vacation on the day we're recording this. So I 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:29.800 am joined by a special guest for today's episode, which 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.640 is our producer, Seth Nicholas Johnson. What's going on? Seth? Hello, 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.960 happy to be here, happy to be talking to our wonderful, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.880 wonderful audience. Don't don't flatter him too much. Um now, 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.080 so Seth, you've been on Stuff to Blow your Mind 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.920 as a guest before, wants to talk about the sensation 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.120 of free song, which is the name for when you 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:54.400 get goose bumps and chills as a reaction to music. 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.520 And uh, and of course you're a music guy. You 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:01.160 you play music, you record music. You think what is 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:04.400 it called when you make records? Are you a music publisher? Um? 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:08.959 Technically I own a record label and I manufacture records. 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.080 So however you want to phrase that in today's world? 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.399 Who knows, you know, because we're so far beyond the 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.720 traditional label system. And then screaming gets involved, so I 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.120 could say those words, I am a record label and 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.080 I manufacture records. I think it's technically you are a 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.319 you are a disc lord. Yes, that's a good way 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:30.679 to put it. Yes, so as as a resident disc 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.080 lord here. But oh but also also I should mention 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.880 that you have hosted a number of music related podcasts, 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.720 and I'm genuinely so excited because You've got a brand 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:44.280 new one coming out that by the time this episode airs, 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.880 I think you will have your first episode live. Is 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.440 that right? I believe by the time this air's at 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.919 least two episodes will be alive. Yes, yes, And depending 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:56.080 upon when you listen to this, maybe three, maybe twelve, 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.400 who knows. So tell me about the new show. That 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.720 the show is called Rusty Needles Record Club, And um, 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.320 it's a very simple concept, honestly, all it is. It's 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.040 like a book club, but it's for music. That's that's 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:12.440 That's really as simple as it gets. My ludicrous goal 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.880 for this podcast is to listen to every album ever made. 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:19.520 I know I'm not gonna do that's like, that's that's ridiculous, 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:23.079 but that's my goal. And so the fun of that 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:27.560 is that me and my guests. We are one album 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.600 per episode. Everyone's gonna listen to the same album and 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:32.400 then we talk about it and we go on all 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.640 kinds of tangents. We'll give it a quick review at 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:38.960 the end. But honestly, what the show is, it's a 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:43.480 surrogate for people out there who just want a music friend, 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.280 you know, someone who they can talk to about music 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:48.600 and listen to a good music conversation. And you know, 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:50.640 I've been in this place in my life and I'm 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:52.960 sure others too. Sometimes you just don't have a friend 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.880 around to talk to about music. That's what this podcast 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:57.720 can be for you. If if you're a lonely music 0:02:57.840 --> 0:02:59.840 nerd as I've been, and I'm sure I'm sure every 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.880 it has been at some point in their life, listen 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.240 to this podcast. It's for you. You know, I literally 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.440 made it exclusively for you out there. So um, but 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:10.720 that's what it is. It's a rusty Needles record club. 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.560 Find it literally wherever you find any podcast. I mean, 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:16.440 in a way, that's sort of what all podcasts are, 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.440 right Like, uh, sometimes I think of what is stuff 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:21.880 to blow your mind? It's like if you really wish 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:25.519 you had someboddies to talk to about science and goblins 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:29.360 and medieval poetry. Here are those goblin friends? Yeah no, 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.520 And I honestly do think that that podcasts in general 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.960 serve a very valuable purpose in that in that space, 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.400 you know, and sometimes like stuff to blow your mind 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:43.200 if they're genuinely informative, genuinely researched. My other show, Rusty 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.040 Needles Record Club is much more conversational, much lighter fare. 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.119 But if you enjoy listening to my voice, and more importantly, 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.840 if you really like music and music recommendations, hop on over, 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.040 give it a give us a listen, and a big 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.000 goal of mine. I don't think I've even told Joe this. 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.320 I want to get Joe on so we can talk 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.160 about some Neil Young. Oh. I know Joe loves Neil Young, 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.080 and yet we've never had a full blown Neil Young conversation. 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:10.080 So you just start thinking about your favorite Neil Young album. Well, 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.920 Neil Young for me, If you know anything about my 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:18.200 my taste in in uh perhaps underappreciated movies of the 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.160 weird Sword of the kind we talked about on Weird 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.760 House Cinema, Uh, you might better understand my love for 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.839 Neil Young because he is both a genuinely wonderful rock 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.880 musician with I love his singing voice, I love his 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:35.000 guitar playing, I love his weird, atypical creativity. But he 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:38.560 is also just full of bad ideas for music and 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:44.599 just strangely realized, poorly thought out ideas put into practice 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:48.080 with reckless abandon and I love that too. Oh yeah, 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:49.720 I know. And it's not just for music. I think 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:53.040 it's for every piece of his artistic output, Like um didn't. 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.520 Let's see. I believe one of his album covers was 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.320 taken with a game boy. Do you remember that album cover? 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.280 I think it was the silver and gold one or 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.200 something like that. I can't relate, yeah boy camera, Yeah no, 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:08.800 I mean, what a wonderful idea. He has to be 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.040 in some sort of record book for the only album 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.560 cover taken with a game boy, you know, like, congratulations 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:16.960 to him. You know, he doesn't care. He does exactly 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.640 what he wants, despite the fact that he is like 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.719 a heralded, you know, very well respected, very very critically 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.479 applauded musician, you know, so congratulations to him for you know, 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.320 sticking to himself. Yeah, okay, well we'll save that for 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.240 the episode where I come on again it is Rusty 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.159 Needles Record Club, so you can look that up wherever 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.080 you get your podcasts. But for today's episode of Stuff 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.400 to Blow Your Mind, set your music guy. So I 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:43.560 thought we got to talk about music of some kind. 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.760 It's October here on the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.960 It is the most hallowed time of the year for us, 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.240 where we we talked about all things spooky and monstrous 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.360 and uh and and uncanny, So we got to talk 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:00.240 about some uncanny melodies. Obviously, the place we had to 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.000 go today is to talk about horror movie music. And 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.479 I also recognize that we are doing, uh, we're currently 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.760 doing a great injustice that Robert wasn't here for this 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.640 conversation today. So we may have to revisit the subject 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.479 in some in some episode later on in the in 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:17.520 the month or something like that, because I know Robert 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.800 loves horror movie music. He's got tons of interesting thoughts 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.160 about it too, so so this may be something that 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.120 we'll have to like continue as an ongoing conversation and 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.159 and follow up from this episode with him. Absolutely, But 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:33.400 before we get into any of the real mysteries about 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:37.120 scary music and horror movie tunes, Uh, that that I 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.560 wanted to be the meat of the episode. Today, I 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:42.480 was wondering if we could kick off by exploring a 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.920 kind of strange thought I was having earlier. I don't 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.080 know if this is if this is an insight, or 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:48.640 if this is just sort of like me staring at 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.599 my tone nails and thinking it's interesting. But maybe you'll 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:55.280 be the judge. So I was just thinking the other 0:06:55.400 --> 0:07:00.000 day about how music is extremely important to the experience. 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.880 It's of pretty much all modern cinema, not just as 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.839 a pleasurable enhancement to the drama of the film, but 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.600 as one of the techniques that makes the experience of 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:17.640 movie going feel beyond the power of regular observation and cognition. 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.080 It's one of the things that makes watching a movie 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:25.680 feel like you have superpowers. Um So, to explain that 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:30.360 because modern film has high definition video and audio uh 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.080 and and modern editing techniques. I've talked about this before 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:37.040 that I think modern film very much feels like observing 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.880 real life. In the words of the character Professor Brian 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.640 Oblivion in the movie Videodrome, the television screen is the 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.400 retina of the mind's eye, and what takes place on 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:50.640 that screen emerges pretty much as raw experience for the 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.040 viewer watching TV or watching a movie is in many 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:58.840 ways as realistic as observing real life. It certainly feels 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.080 that way most of the time, unless you unless something 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.480 breaks the spell and you get distracted, which which um 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.520 ultimately leads to a few things you guys have talked 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.040 about in episodes in the past, like, um, why you 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.640 cry while watching a movie when it's like, oh, I 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:15.880 know this is fake. There's no part of me that 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.680 thinks these are real people experiencing anything close to reality, 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.920 and yet I'm feeling a real emotion. I'm feeling sad, 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:27.000 I'm feeling scared. Perhaps, yes, yes, So the illusion is 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.840 so strong that it becomes raw experiences. It's as if 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.280 you're experiencing it yourself. Unless again, the spell gets broken 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.200 because I don't know, your phone rings or something. You 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.319 get distracted and suddenly you realize, oh, yeah, this is 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.480 not real life. The boom mic dips into the screen. Right, yeah, 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.000 I mean that's another thing, like like shoddy your filmmaking 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:52.000 techniques can also break that spell, but also modern filmmaking 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:57.720 techniques uh create a simulation of raw experience that contains 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:02.040 information that tends to give the viewer insights that are 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:06.040 not possible when observing the natural world. Uh. So, just 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.120 some some very simple examples. Think about the way that 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:14.280 editing and camera work can draw your attention automatically to 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:19.080 details in movie scenes that will be significant in understanding 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.920 something about a character's personality, or or maybe through uh 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:27.920 foreshadowing by highlighting something will automatically uh suggest to you 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.440 objects or statements that will later become very important to 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:35.360 the plot. So think about the information content implied by 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.680 a zoom in on a pair of scissors on somebody's desk, 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.320 or especially if it's in a horror movie, or a 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:47.160 flashback of a character saying I hope we meet again soon. Uh. 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.440 And so, when compared to viewing reality, the viewer of 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:56.600 TV or film has a sense of precognition or extrasensory perception. 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:00.400 The drama that you watch happen on screen un holds 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:05.040 as raw experience, but it's also imbued with this extra 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:09.200 layer of godlike knowledge and insight that's not available to 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.640 you when you're just observing mundane reality from a fixed perspective, 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:17.760 and also not available to the others who are supposedly 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.560 living in this world that we're observing. So for example, 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.520 we we do have this omniscience of we're we we 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.640 know information that they don't know about each other, like 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:29.880 as if we are a god looking in on their lives. 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:31.880 It's it's similar to reading a book where you can 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.920 kind of see inside someone's mind and you can feel 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.200 their own thoughts and etcetera, etcetera. It's very similar to 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.360 that in that Let's let's take it to music for 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.680 a second. If we're watching Jaws and we hear the 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:48.120 Jaws theme start up the butt on but on, We 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:51.439 as the viewer, we know the shark is coming. They 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:53.760 might not know that because they can't hear the Jaws 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.080 theme starting. You know, he's they're chumming the water. He's 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:59.840 he's facing the wrong direction. We're looking right behind. We 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.840 know the shark is coming, but he doesn't like like 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.560 we are one step ahead. We are superhuman compared to 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:11.000 these these fictional characters on the screen. Yes, so that's exactly. Yeah, 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:12.640 you're right, this is where I was going with this. 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:16.840 Music is another one of these modern cinematography techniques that 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:21.400 contains super mundane information that imbuse the viewer with a 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:25.520 sense of godlike insight about what's going on. Uh. So 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.880 you know, in reality, you could be walking down a 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.640 sidewalk alone on a windy day, or you can imagine 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:33.280 that same point of view. Maybe it's a p o 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:35.880 V shot in a movie of somebody walking down a 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.719 sidewalk on a windy day with the Halloween theme playing, right, 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.880 and in the context of a movie, the latter almost 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:46.120 certainly tells you something is something about what's going to 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.439 happen in the future. So the music in a movie 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.160 doesn't just set a mood. It does set a mood, 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:57.240 but it also provides information that's not available to the characters. 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.560 Um though, I think it's also interesting that some times 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.760 characters in movies behave as if they can hear the 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.840 same music that the audience can, and I mean assuming 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.160 that it is music that's not like coming from a 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:12.439 radio on screen, and we'll talk more about the distinction 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.800 in a minute. I think, um but I think maybe 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.960 in those cases, the the suggested effect is really that 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:22.760 the character either somehow knows or believes they know something 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.839 in an extra sensory or precognitive way, and the music 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:30.120 sort of shares that supermundane knowledge they have or they 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.040 believe they have with the viewer. This is a big word. 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.480 I used to have to use a lot. Um. If 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:37.960 anyone in the audience doesn't know, I've spent a big 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:42.360 chunk of my life making TV and movies as an animator. 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:43.840 That was a big part of my life for about 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.440 a decade or so. And then UM, one element we 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.960 would have to pay attention to is the idea of 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:55.600 diagetic versus non diagetic music. Um, if anyone doesn't know. Basically, uh, 0:12:55.640 --> 0:13:00.280 here's a very simple definition. Diagetic music is what is 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.400 happening on screen. You can see someone doing something. It 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.120 is making a noise and you are experiencing it. So 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.440 someone turns on their radio and you're hearing the radio, 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:13.480 and that is the sound you hear on screen. That's 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.800 diagetic music. Someone picks up an obo and starts playing it, 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.599 and you hear the music of the oboe playing. That's diagetic. 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.840 So basically, there's a real logical explanation for where that 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.240 sound is coming from. I think the word diagetic comes 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.600 from the Greek for meaning something like narrative or something, 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.440 doesn't it meaning that the sound emerges from the narrative 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.640 as opposed to on top of the narrative. Exactly, it's 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.200 it's it's that, it's it's a part of this. It's 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.199 it's not. Um, it's not a subliminal thing. It's a 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.480 limital thing. It's right there in the front, you know. 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:51.680 So um, non diagetic is actually what we experience the most. 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.640 Non diagetic music is basically every score that you see 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.520 pretty much when you see any movie, any TV show, 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.680 et cetera. Now, nine percent of it is a score 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.920 that is just kind of overlaid, you know, with with 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.720 like the images and the dialogue and the sound effects. 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.520 It's just this thing on top. But it didn't always 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.200 used to be that way. So yeah, Like the the 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:18.440 very first time a mainstream movie had sound it was 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.160 this Al Jolson film back in seven. It's called The 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:25.080 Jazz Singer. It's very famous. Um. I don't necessarily recommend it. 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.240 It's got some very iffy subject matter. I don't think 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.440 you should watch it personally, but it's very famous. It's 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.280 something you watch in like, you know, film theory classes. Um. 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.640 But then if we jump ahead six years, like I said, 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.240 that was seven jump ahead six years and the first 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:46.040 mainstream film to use a traditional score was King Kong. 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:49.840 That was three and that was scored by Max Steiner. 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:55.080 So so think about that nine popularization of sound in 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:59.320 movies nineteen thirty three. We've basically figured it out and 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:03.200 we're using the same technique today. That's pretty remarkable for 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:07.840 just six years. Uh. But right there in between, in 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:12.160 that little six year gap, we have Todd Browning's Dracula 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:18.440 starring which was released in one I mean a classic, right, Oh, absolutely, 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.560 I mean, it can't be denied. I I've I don't 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:23.960 know how many times I've watched this movie at this point. 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:27.400 But but but um, I think I've made this opinion 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.520 clear on the show before. And I'm not the only 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.760 person to think this. I've I've read other people, uh, 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.320 saying that they had feelings to the same effect. I 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:39.960 think that the simultaneously produced Spanish language version of Dracula 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.680 that Universal filmed concurrently with this. I think they were 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.400 filming at night while Browning's a team was filming during 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:50.600 the day, is actually better except for lacking bell leegosie. 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.160 So if you could pair the Spanish language version with 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.440 Bella Leegosi as Dracula, that would be the perfect form. 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:58.520 Yeah no, I fully agree, and yeah, yeah, this is 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.080 something we could get into a whole other episode. But 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.800 the other short version is is that the Mexican production 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:10.400 had the benefit of watching what happened during the American 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.480 production and learn from it and just kind of heighten everything, 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.000 make everything is proving it better. It's just it's it's 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.760 a it's a wonderful thing. I've seen documentaries about it, 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.120 like it's it's a fascinating subject. But one thing that 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:26.240 actually both of those movies have in common very little score, 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:32.280 so little in fact that I would say no score. Um. So, 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:36.160 there's only two moments of music in Todd Browning's Dracula. Okay, 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.200 there's one point where they're at an opera house and 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.640 they're having like a scene at an opera house in London, 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.320 and they're talking and then in the background you can 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.880 hear some Wagner and some Schubert, and that's just like 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.320 what happens to be occurring in the background in the scene, 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.320 because they're they're at the London opera house. This is 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:55.920 what's happening in the background, and it does heighten the 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:59.080 moment and kind of add some feelings to things. But 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.840 that is majetic. To bring it back to that word again, 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.320 it is what is happening on screen, and so that's 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.520 pretty much the only thing in the movie that has 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:11.440 any music at all period. And then if you look 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.040 at the very very beginning, over the opening credits, before 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.320 the film actually begins, there's a little bit of Tchaikovsky's 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:21.840 Swan Lake which plays over literally the opening credits exclusively. 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.720 And I believe that is two things. Um. One, it's 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.760 kind of a holdover from just like the silent era, 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:29.679 where it's just like, oh, well, there's this thing on 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.640 screen and there's no people talking. I gotta do something here, 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.359 just put some music up there, you know. But too, 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:39.359 I also have read that um, Chaikovsky's Swan Lake was 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:43.440 also just very stock standard, where it was just like, hey, 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:45.480 we can just use this one, like this is just 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.080 a standard song we can stick in wherever we need 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.560 it in the studio system. UM. I'm not sure how 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.479 true that is, but I find that fascinating because to me, 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.480 when I watched that film, that moment from Swan Lake 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:00.760 fits that Dracula opening credit sequence so perfectly that I 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.280 can't see it being stock. I guess kind of like 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.840 Always Sunny in Philadelphia, where their entire sound library is 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.040 stock you know, um um score stuff. And when I 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:12.840 hear it in something else, like a TV commercial, I 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:16.520 get confused. That's a tangent. I'm moving back to to Dracula. 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:18.520 Well no, no no, no, I know exactly what you're talking about, 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.840 Like I can't. It's uh, I think the part with 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:24.560 swan Lake is it's that creaky violin melody. Yeah, am 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.160 I right about the game. Well, maybe we can stop 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:42.639 and just play a clip of that real quick, good call. Okay. 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:46.480 I can't hear that without thinking about Todd Browning's Dracula, right, Yeah, 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.520 you know, it has established itself, like I think of 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.880 Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake as Dracula music more than I think 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:57.280 that as swan Lake music. Clearly it is made for 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.800 swan Lake anyway. But I've I've also seen Todd Browning's 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.199 Dracula way more than I've ever seen Swan Lake. So 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.320 you know, it's I'm sure it'll be different from person 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.800 to person. But but but here, here's the point. Here's 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:12.879 the point. So back in again, this is the jazz singer. Uh. 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.760 That movie was very, very popular, but all of the 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.320 music was taking place on screen diagetically because it was 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.000 a musical. Everyone's singing was singing right there in front 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.800 of you. Every all the musical musical instruments was a stage. 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:30.800 It was all about performance, stage work, the vaudeville scene, etcetera, etcetera. 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.640 So this was understandable for a lot of reasons. Um. One, 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.440 musicals were just very popular at the time, so that 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:39.800 that was like a big reason why they made this 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.880 film be a musical and why it was so popular 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:45.480 just in the modern consciousness of wow, the jazz singer 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:47.840 winning all the awards, making all the money, all the 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:50.880 people have seen it, but also be it's an excellent 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:55.199 showcase of early sound and vision singing together. Two in 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.640 this brand new medium, which is the talkie, because before that, 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:02.120 um you know, obviously there was like a lone organist 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.240 sitting in most silent movie theaters playing along, you know, 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.800 with whatever is happening in the background. Or two there 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.919 was a brief period where they were actually playing records 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.240 along with the film. But this was a very short 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.560 lived technology because they would go out of sync perpetually. 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.000 Because I mean, if you just even think about that, 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:23.360 like even in your own world, you know. You uh, 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:25.360 let's say you're trying to sink what's playing on your 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:27.879 radio with what's happening on your television. It's just not 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.359 gonna quite always line up. It'll be close enough, probably, 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:33.840 but it won't. It's not going to be exactly right. 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:35.600 So I don't know if anybody what we got a 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.000 lot of Mystery Science Theater three thousand fans out there. 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:40.119 I don't know if anybody ever tried in that middle 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:44.400 period to manually synchronize a riff tracks m P three 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.719 with a movie that they were trying to watch it 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:50.120 paired with it was a pain. Yeah, yeah. Or even 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.800 trying to sink Dark Side of the Moon with the 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.520 Wizard of Oz always fun, always fun. I've I've spent 0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:00.280 many hours doing that. Um. But but anyway, it's getting 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:04.639 back to my point though. So these were musicals, and 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:06.480 so that was like there was a reason for it 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.159 all to be happening on stage King Kong. It was 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.520 a a real score because they had finally figured out 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:18.080 that that was okay. One Both the filmmakers and the 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:21.480 film critics did not think that the audience could understand 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:24.400 where the music was coming from. They thought that we 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:28.520 were too simple, that like we would be confused. We 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.240 would say, wait, is there a violinist behind them? Like 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:33.919 like where where is this music coming from? Oh, they 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:36.679 aren't alone, there's a musician right over there. You know. 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.480 Well that is interesting. I mean I wonder if did 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:42.960 and I mean so obviously we don't think that now. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:45.320 But also we grow up watching movies that have non 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:50.840 diagetic music in them. It did audiences for say King Kong, 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.640 like the earliest movies with non diagetic scores, did they 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:58.560 react with confusion or was this pretty much metabolized instantly? 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:00.760 I can say this, and I don't think this is 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:03.199 proof of anything, but it is something that happened at 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:07.040 the time. Um I have, you know, I like classic cinema. 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:09.400 Um I have. I have this one box set of 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:13.480 pretty much all of the old Laurel and Hardy um 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:17.040 Um shorts and features. And what's very funny is that 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:20.480 in this collection they have the original shorts, which, much 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:24.880 like Todd Browning's Dracula, were released. Basically, they're they're barely 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.560 not silent films. You know, they are one step past 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:30.879