1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,519 Gloria Steinem: Welcome back to she Pivots. My name happens to be Gloria Steinem. 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:19,239 ETS: Welcome back to season five of She Pivots, the podcast 3 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,840 ETS: where we talk to women who have accomplished these big, 4 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,239 ETS: huge things, and really we talk about the personal shift 5 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,840 ETS: that happened before it. I'm your host, Emily Tisch Sussman, 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:29,720 ETS: and I'm a pivoter. 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:32,560 ETS: I had a. 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,880 ETS: Really successful political career, had three kids in three years 9 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,240 ETS: in a global pandemic, and essentially saw my career evaporate 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,639 ETS: overnight before my eyes. I had to rebuild my identity. 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,080 ETS: I did not like resilience. I did not like the term. 12 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,720 ETS: It did not resonate with me because resilience implied going back. 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:50,960 ETS: There was no way I could go back to the 14 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,239 ETS: thing I was before, and I needed to know that 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,600 ETS: whatever I would build next had to be at least 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:56,960 ETS: as good, maybe. 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:57,520 ETS: Even a little better. 18 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,000 ETS: But if I spent my life working on legislative change, 19 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:01,720 ETS: I had to know that this next chapter for me 20 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,280 ETS: of culture change had to be possible. And that's why 21 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,720 ETS: I created this show. The women that we talked to 22 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,360 ETS: on this show are moving culture in huge ways. They're 23 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,720 ETS: starting companies, they're moving organizations forward. They're changing the way 24 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,080 ETS: we think about art and culture, and the only way 25 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,880 ETS: they've been able to do it is because they went 26 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,960 ETS: through these personal lows, not in spite of it, because 27 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,119 ETS: of it. We look at them now and we think, oh, 28 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,280 ETS: what a success. Of course, they went through all these 29 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,039 ETS: things to get to it, but really, this huge successful 30 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,840 ETS: thing can really only happen because of the career before 31 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,880 ETS: the intervening personal event and then taking off towards this big, 32 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,880 ETS: different career on the other side. That's what we get 33 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,720 ETS: to the bottom of. I honestly cannot believe that we're 34 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,119 ETS: on season five of this show. I've spoken with over 35 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,600 ETS: one hundred and thirty incredible, inspiring pivoters on this podcast. 36 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,800 ETS: This season's guests are no different. This season has pivots 37 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,080 ETS: of all shapes and sizes, and you'd think I've seen. 38 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,160 ETS: It all, but I have been absolutely shocked to my 39 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:00,680 ETS: core by some of them. 40 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,000 ETS: This season has brought together so many women already, and 41 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,160 ETS: I can't wait for you all to hear their stories 42 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,280 ETS: on this platform and really connect with them the way 43 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,280 ETS: that I have. Anyway, let's get into it. I couldn't 44 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,040 ETS: be more excited for our season opener. Her work is foundational, 45 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,880 ETS: and she is truly a living legend. She almost doesn't 46 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,200 ETS: even need an introduction. Our first episode of this season 47 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,240 ETS: is dropping during Women's History Month, of course, and to 48 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,880 ETS: make it even more special, today is the ninety second 49 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,320 ETS: birthday of our guest, Gloria Steinem. For more than half 50 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,840 ETS: a century, Gloria has been a writer, activist, organizer, and 51 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,160 ETS: one of the most influential leaders of the modern feminist movement. 52 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,360 ETS: Gloria's story shows us that one of the most powerful 53 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:44,560 ETS: things women can do. 54 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,600 ETS: Is gather and share their stories. 55 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,400 Archival: Women have always had to be overqualified for everything they do. 56 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,799 Archival: We've always been we women much too docile and much 57 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,320 Archival: too law abiding. But that's going to cease because it 58 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,640 Archival: is a revolution and not reform. 59 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:05,239 ETS: So, without further ado, this is Glorious dynam and this 60 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:06,679 ETS: is how she pivots. 61 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:11,760 ETS: What is your name and what do you do? 62 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:17,040 Gloria Steinem: My name is Glorious Dynam And probably I would count 63 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,760 Gloria Steinem: as never having had a job, because I've always been 64 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,120 Gloria Steinem: either a freelance writer and or someone who helped to 65 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,959 Gloria Steinem: start a magazine like New York Magazine or Miss Magazine. 66 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,160 ETS: What would you say that you do now? 67 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,040 Gloria Steinem: I guess I'm a gatherer of groups. Because I have 68 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,240 Gloria Steinem: a living room lots of room for people to sit 69 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,360 Gloria Steinem: and talk, and I have meetings here. I feel lucky. 70 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: So in this show we go in chronological order, which 71 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: means that we're going to go all the way back. 72 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: We're going to start with Little Gloria. Tell us about 73 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: where you grew up, which I know as many places. 74 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: Tell us about your family. Can you need to picture 75 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:58,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: for us of Little Gloria. 76 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,560 Gloria Steinem: I grew up first in Michigan and then also in Toledo, Ohio. 77 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,320 Gloria Steinem: I have a sister who's nine years older, but we're 78 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:14,560 Gloria Steinem: the only two. My father had a kind of summer resort, 79 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:19,080 Gloria Steinem: I mean, a place to dance outdoors in Michigan, and 80 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,599 Gloria Steinem: in the wintertime, the whole family got in a house 81 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:28,359 Gloria Steinem: trailer and went to Florida, California, or we stayed in 82 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,839 Gloria Steinem: a trailer park by the ocean. So I didn't really 83 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,440 Gloria Steinem: go to school regularly, or I didn't stay for long, 84 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:36,800 Gloria Steinem: just the first few weeks. 85 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: Your life as a child was pretty nomadic, as you described, 86 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: Your father was an antiques dealer and your mother really. 87 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:48,080 ETS: Struggled with mental illness. Did you view your life as 88 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,080 ETS: unusual or it was just what you knew. 89 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,600 Gloria Steinem: Well. When I would occasionally go to school, I would 90 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:58,359 Gloria Steinem: realize that the other kids in my class had a 91 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,440 Gloria Steinem: different kind of life. I was reading all the time 92 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,520 Gloria Steinem: in a way that made it seem normal. Louisa may 93 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:09,000 Gloria Steinem: Alcott was like my best friend. I read every single word, 94 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,600 Gloria Steinem: you know, she ever wrote. And my mother had been 95 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:17,200 Gloria Steinem: a journalist, she had worked for a Toledo newspaper, so 96 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:23,000 Gloria Steinem: there was that in the background. And my father was 97 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,320 Gloria Steinem: unusual too, and never having had a job, but he 98 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:32,880 Gloria Steinem: was a very loving, patient, funny person, and that's what mattered. 99 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,719 ETS: Did you have a vision of what you would be 100 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:36,920 ETS: when you grew up? 101 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,640 Gloria Steinem: I don't think. I mean I loved Louisa may Alcott, 102 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,680 Gloria Steinem: so somehow she grew up. She did, in fact grow 103 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,080 Gloria Steinem: up to be a writer. So I had that hope, 104 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,760 Gloria Steinem: I think. But in my generation, of course, everybody got 105 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,719 Gloria Steinem: married and had children, so I thought somehow that would 106 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,279 Gloria Steinem: magically happen. I wasn't quite sure how. There was no 107 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,960 Gloria Steinem: sense of kind of rebelling against that idea. As a kid, 108 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,640 Gloria Steinem: you just thought, oh, it's what you do. No, because 109 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,200 Gloria Steinem: nobody told me I had to. I could choose it 110 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:12,400 Gloria Steinem: or not choose it. I never felt dictated to. I 111 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:17,400 Gloria Steinem: did go to college, a women's college, and that was 112 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,080 Gloria Steinem: my first experience with three meals a day, in a 113 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,280 Gloria Steinem: place to sleep every night. That was the same, and 114 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,520 Gloria Steinem: so everybody else was kind of shocked by it. I 115 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,400 Gloria Steinem: felt it was great. I felt it was like finding 116 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,760 Gloria Steinem: a home in the army. I assumed I would get married. 117 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,960 Gloria Steinem: All my classmates got married, right, so it was a 118 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,520 Gloria Steinem: kind of gradual process. It wasn't like I made a 119 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:43,719 Gloria Steinem: one time decision. 120 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,200 ETS: In nineteen fifty six, Gloria graduated from Smith College and 121 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,200 ETS: was engaged to be married. Soon after, she had a 122 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,920 ETS: change of heart and broke off her engagement to pursue 123 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,640 ETS: a fellowship in India. That's when she discovered she was pregnant. 124 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,760 ETS: Before she left for India, Gloria reached out to doctor 125 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,160 ETS: John Sharp to help her get an illegal abortion. Her 126 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,600 ETS: twenty fifteen memoir My Life on the Road is dedicated 127 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:09,280 ETS: to that doctor. 128 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,560 ETS: Was that a hard decision for you to have that 129 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:14,440 ETS: illegal abortion? 130 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:21,239 Gloria Steinem: No, absolutely not know, because to have that child would 131 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,760 Gloria Steinem: have changed my life and meant that I had to 132 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,880 Gloria Steinem: get married. And though it would have been to a 133 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,880 Gloria Steinem: very nice guy, still, it just would have profoundly changed 134 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:36,480 Gloria Steinem: my life, and I really wanted to be myself and 135 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,560 Gloria Steinem: go to India. And you know, I was working as 136 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,840 Gloria Steinem: a waitress at the time, I think in London while 137 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,520 Gloria Steinem: I waited for my visa, and I just called a 138 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,000 Gloria Steinem: doctor whose name I got in the phone book because 139 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,040 Gloria Steinem: he lived near me. And I was so lucky that 140 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,480 Gloria Steinem: he was the most kind, wonderful man who referred me 141 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,440 Gloria Steinem: to a woman doctor to do the abortion, which point 142 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:01,280 Gloria Steinem: was the illegal. 143 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,640 ETS: Wow, I mean incredible that there was a woman doctor. 144 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,040 Gloria Steinem: Yes, yeah, And I mean he was actually much more 145 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:14,000 Gloria Steinem: accepting and supporting. She was a little disapproving but. 146 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,880 ETS: Oh that's interesting, but willing to do the procedure. 147 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:19,480 Gloria Steinem: Yeah, yes, absolutely. 148 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,320 ETS: The two years Gloria spent in India profoundly impacted her. 149 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,920 ETS: Learning about community driven activism helped to shift her way 150 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,000 ETS: of thinking and played a major role in how she 151 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,920 ETS: thought about organizing. Then it was time to return to reality. 152 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,439 ETS: She came back to the United States and tried to 153 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,920 ETS: join the workforce like any other recent college graduate, but 154 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,640 ETS: the working world of America hadn't caught up to having 155 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,600 ETS: women in most jobs. In those early years, scraping by 156 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,120 ETS: as a freelance writer What was that like of trying 157 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,200 ETS: to like piece piece jobs together. 158 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,720 Gloria Steinem: Well, I probably was helped by the vision of my father, 159 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,520 Gloria Steinem: who never had a job either. His two points of 160 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,640 Gloria Steinem: pride were he never wore a hat and he never 161 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:07,480 Gloria Steinem: had a job, so it didn't seem so abnormal to me. 162 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,800 Gloria Steinem: And I was freelancing first for Esquire Magazine, where I 163 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,000 Gloria Steinem: happen to know one or two of the editors, and 164 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,559 Gloria Steinem: then we started New York Magazine, which was the first 165 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,080 Gloria Steinem: of the city magazines. 166 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,720 ETS: Did you have a version of what success looked like 167 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,920 ETS: for you, Like, did you think, Okay, I'm going to 168 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,400 ETS: create a magazine, I'm going to be the head of 169 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,600 ETS: it and run it, or I'll go often change another one. 170 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,199 ETS: Did you have a vision of what your version of 171 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:37,080 ETS: success looked like? No, Actually I didn't perhaps do to 172 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,920 ETS: my parents. I wanted to be able to do what 173 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,920 ETS: I cared about. I was always interested in politics in 174 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,200 ETS: the sense of you know that you cared about Kennedy 175 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,880 ETS: or who you know the candidate you were working for. 176 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,240 ETS: And then in nineteen sixty three, you went undercover as 177 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,000 ETS: it played Boy Bunny to write this explosive piece about 178 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,000 ETS: the conditions that women faced there. What was it like 179 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,400 ETS: doing some of that most important journalism early in your 180 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,040 ETS: career and then having it used to diminish you. 181 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:15,440 Gloria Steinem: Well, the Playboy Club had only recently opened here, I think. 182 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:21,040 Gloria Steinem: Other than that, it only existed in Chicago. And Show Magazine, 183 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,839 Gloria Steinem: this big, beautiful arts magazine that I was a contributing 184 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,880 Gloria Steinem: editor for, had editorial meetings. So in the meeting, I said, oh, 185 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,959 Gloria Steinem: we should send There was a wonderful New Yorker woman 186 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,800 Gloria Steinem: writer who couldn't have been a bunny. Actually she was, 187 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,440 Gloria Steinem: but I said we should Lillian Ross, wonderful. We should 188 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,679 Gloria Steinem: send her to be a bunny. And there was this 189 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,600 Gloria Steinem: little silence and they said, no, you do it. So 190 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,280 Gloria Steinem: I said, okay. But I never imagined that I would 191 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:51,440 Gloria Steinem: get beyond the selection process. I thought I would write 192 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:57,240 Gloria Steinem: about that. And they were so desperate for employees because 193 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,200 Gloria Steinem: it's such a lousy job. Pace badly. You have to 194 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,840 Gloria Steinem: wear three inch high heels and for a waitress that's 195 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,680 Gloria Steinem: hard on your feet, right, and wear a costume that's 196 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:13,360 Gloria Steinem: so tight you can't breathe. I never imagined that I 197 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,480 Gloria Steinem: would be hired, and actually I quit for a while. 198 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,760 Gloria Steinem: I said my mother was ill, which wasn't true, and 199 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,240 Gloria Steinem: I quit, and then I went back again, and then 200 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,880 Gloria Steinem: I ended up writing it for you. 201 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,280 ETS: Did you find that is one of your most formative 202 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:29,839 ETS: pieces in your life? 203 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,760 Gloria Steinem: Yes? I did. And I wasn't so sure it was 204 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:37,240 Gloria Steinem: a good idea because although some of it resulted in 205 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:44,200 Gloria Steinem: my getting letters from oppressed bunnies in other clubs everywhere 206 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,840 Gloria Steinem: thanking me for writing it, it also kind of type 207 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,120 Gloria Steinem: cast me in a way, so I wasn't so sure 208 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:54,600 Gloria Steinem: it was a good idea. 209 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:56,440 ETS: Type cast you how. 210 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,600 Gloria Steinem: Is a physical you know bunny? You know you had 211 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,439 Gloria Steinem: to wear this incredibly tight costume that when they stuffed 212 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,760 Gloria Steinem: you under your breast, So that was the way the 213 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:14,200 Gloria Steinem: public saw you. And though I got tons of thank 214 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,880 Gloria Steinem: you messages from other bunnies, it still shaped the way 215 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:19,559 Gloria Steinem: I was seen. 216 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,480 ETS: And so were you afraid that you wouldn't be taken 217 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,440 ETS: seriously at a journalist in reporting on other kinds of stories? 218 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,640 Gloria Steinem: Yeah? I think so. I wasn't sure it was a 219 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:35,480 Gloria Steinem: good idea. And also because the Playboy Club had got 220 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:41,400 Gloria Steinem: its liquor lincense illegally by bribing, I ended up being 221 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,240 Gloria Steinem: asked to be a witness in court against them, so 222 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:46,559 Gloria Steinem: it was complicated. 223 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,400 ETS: Did it end up affecting your journalism career, and if 224 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,160 ETS: it did, how did you overcome it able to cover 225 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:54,160 ETS: other kinds of stories. 226 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,360 Gloria Steinem: Well, it probably did turn me into a freelancer more, 227 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,839 Gloria Steinem: which I might have anyway, I'm not sure. 228 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,920 ETS: What was your thinking process then to move you to 229 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,719 ETS: the next step of really taking from this straight journalism 230 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,040 ETS: really into activism. 231 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:17,640 Gloria Steinem: Well, I was always freelancing for women's magazines. I was 232 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:22,520 Gloria Steinem: a contributing editor for various magazines, and also we started 233 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,840 Gloria Steinem: New York Magazine. So it just happened that it was 234 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,920 Gloria Steinem: okay that I had a writing life that was not 235 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,840 Gloria Steinem: salaried or continuous, that was varied. 236 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,520 ETS: Do you see yourself as someone who like someone who 237 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,920 ETS: looks at white space and sees things that are possible? 238 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,120 ETS: Is that how you view your contribution, because you've certainly 239 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,880 ETS: created a lot of a lot of pathways through white spaces. 240 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:56,200 Gloria Steinem: Well, remember that the civil rights movement, the gay and lesbian, 241 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,360 Gloria Steinem: i mean, the social justice movements were springing up up 242 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,960 Gloria Steinem: in a very important way. Also, I was comfortable not 243 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,560 Gloria Steinem: having a job since my father had never had one, 244 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:12,120 Gloria Steinem: so it just it seemed natural, and I was living 245 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,920 Gloria Steinem: in a way that wasn't expensive. My roommate, a wonderful 246 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,920 Gloria Steinem: artist named Barbaranessam, and I had a big, one room 247 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,240 Gloria Steinem: studio on West fifty sixth Street, and you know it 248 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:28,520 Gloria Steinem: didn't cost that much. So it just it was possible 249 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,600 Gloria Steinem: for me in a way that it would not have 250 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,040 Gloria Steinem: been had I not lived in New York or in 251 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,360 Gloria Steinem: an urban setting, had I had different expectations. 252 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,200 ETS: I think a lot of people are nervous to put 253 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,280 ETS: themselves out there to say something different from the mainstream, 254 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,440 ETS: to attach their name or face is something that isn't mainstream. 255 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:49,960 ETS: But you did that quite a lot. 256 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,119 Gloria Steinem: Well, I didn't know the mainstream. 257 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: I mean, after the break, we'll hear about what inspired 258 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: Gloria to become an activist and how it all started. 259 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,560 ETS: As things often do with a story. 260 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,000 Gloria Steinem: We come to you as individual women who would like 261 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,760 Gloria Steinem: to say to you what we wish very much someone 262 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,800 Gloria Steinem: had said to us much earlier. 263 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:15,119 ETS: Be right back. 264 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: Around this time with the political activism. You started going 265 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: to consciousness raising groups and you heard women share their 266 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: experiences and it changed you. Can you take us into 267 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: that time of your life and just paint a little 268 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:39,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: bit of a picture for us for like how it 269 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:40,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: changed you. 270 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:46,200 Gloria Steinem: Well, I'm not sure exactly where our consciousness raising came 271 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:52,280 Gloria Steinem: as a phrase, but it was definitely part of social 272 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:57,840 Gloria Steinem: justice movements and the civil rights movement, the women's movement, 273 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,280 Gloria Steinem: the gay and lesbian movement, these were These were all 274 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,320 Gloria Steinem: movements that meant that individuals who were viewed as one 275 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:12,240 Gloria Steinem: way by society wanted to be viewed as the unique 276 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,600 Gloria Steinem: individuals they really were. And they were meetings that happened 277 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,960 Gloria Steinem: in people's living rooms or in bars, or on the 278 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:25,640 Gloria Steinem: library steps, or you know, they were very accessible and 279 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,960 Gloria Steinem: just accidental. How did your work change at that time. 280 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,160 Gloria Steinem: I'd never had a proper job, except briefly as a bunny, 281 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:44,680 Gloria Steinem: you know. So I was contributing to magazines, then going 282 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:50,000 Gloria Steinem: to editorial meetings once a week. Then we started Miss 283 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,160 Gloria Steinem: magazine and New York Magazine, So it just seemed like 284 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,400 Gloria Steinem: a natural progression. 285 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,160 ETS: Did you have one specific thing that you were trying 286 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,480 ETS: to achieve with the change in the work starting New 287 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,600 ETS: York magazines, starting Miss magazine? Was it one thing or 288 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,080 ETS: was it a couple of things that you were trying 289 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:07,560 ETS: to achieve? 290 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,600 Gloria Steinem: Well, I think that all of us were trying to 291 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:17,560 Gloria Steinem: express women's real lives, and that was not that easy. 292 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,640 Gloria Steinem: I tried to get a job at the New York Times, 293 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,320 Gloria Steinem: they would only employ me in the classified ad department. 294 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:30,800 Gloria Steinem: I mean, there weren't that many places where women writers 295 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:35,320 Gloria Steinem: were welcome. And also I still had my childhood idol 296 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:39,920 Gloria Steinem: of Louisa may Alcott, who had actually succeeded in being 297 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,199 Gloria Steinem: a freelance writer. So it just was one step at 298 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,240 Gloria Steinem: a time, aided in various ways by various things. 299 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,160 ETS: When you say that you wanted to show women's real lives, 300 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,600 ETS: which aspect or which aspects do you think were not 301 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,920 ETS: being represented that you attempted to represent in the magazines? 302 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:05,919 Gloria Steinem: Women had individual lives. I mean because you were regarded 303 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,040 Gloria Steinem: as waiting to get married before you were Once you 304 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,280 Gloria Steinem: were married, you acquired your husband's identity, not your own. 305 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:18,280 Gloria Steinem: It's maybe hard to understand now, but there really wasn't 306 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:26,359 Gloria Steinem: an autonomous, independent life for women. I'd seen some women who, 307 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:31,439 Gloria Steinem: because of the independence women in India were achieving it there, 308 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,600 Gloria Steinem: but I really wasn't very common here. 309 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: Your nineteen sixty nine article was called after Black Power 310 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: Women's Liberation. It changed everything for your public identity almost overnight. 311 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: Did it feel like a pivot that you chose or 312 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:48,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: one that chose you. 313 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,720 Gloria Steinem: It just felt like I was writing about what I 314 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,760 Gloria Steinem: was experiencing because we were meeting in each other's living 315 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,679 Gloria Steinem: rooms or offices or whatever, inspir hired by the civil 316 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,919 Gloria Steinem: rights movement, which we loved and worked in. But also 317 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:12,280 Gloria Steinem: women were not necessarily equal even in the civil rights movement. 318 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:18,919 Gloria Steinem: I remember being at a big rally in Washington, a 319 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,080 Gloria Steinem: civil rights rally, and there was a woman speaking from 320 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,000 Gloria Steinem: the center of a big stage, and the men, nice 321 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,240 Gloria Steinem: men were yelling take her off and fuck her. Well, 322 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,160 Gloria Steinem: in that context you begin to realize, and of course 323 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,639 Gloria Steinem: there were women within the civil rights movement who you know, 324 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,160 Gloria Steinem: were part of the bus boycott and everything, so they 325 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:43,200 Gloria Steinem: were inspirational. 326 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: You've co founded an extraordinary number of organizations, the National 327 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:53,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: Women's Political Caucus, Misfoundation, Women's Media Center, Equality. Now most 328 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: people can barely get one organization off the ground. What 329 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:01,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: drove you to actually build multiple organizations institutions as opposed 330 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:02,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: to just writing about them. 331 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,520 Gloria Steinem: Well, it was a kind of organic process because the 332 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:11,720 Gloria Steinem: National Women's Political Caucus, for instance, started because the very 333 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:18,119 Gloria Steinem: few women billab Sexulogisms who were in Congress were holding 334 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,080 Gloria Steinem: a national convention about the political rights of women, and 335 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,600 Gloria Steinem: that meant that caucus groups were started after that in 336 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:32,360 Gloria Steinem: different states. So supporting them or going to help them 337 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:37,960 Gloria Steinem: or speak with them or be instructed by them was 338 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:39,280 Gloria Steinem: just part of the process. 339 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,760 ETS: Speaking of being instructed by them. And the process you 340 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:45,919 ETS: started out is afraid to speak in public? 341 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,600 Gloria Steinem: Yes? Right, right, right right? 342 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,800 ETS: How did you get over that? Did you have mentors 343 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,720 ETS: in it? Like? Why did you decide the thing that 344 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,639 ETS: you had to say was worth getting over that internal fear? 345 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,760 Gloria Steinem: I didn't do it by myself. Number One. Near where 346 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,800 Gloria Steinem: I was living in the West eighties, there was a 347 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:11,600 Gloria Steinem: childcare center, a pioneering daycare center run by Dorothy Pittman Hughes. 348 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,200 Gloria Steinem: And when I was getting invitations to speak, I knew 349 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,919 Gloria Steinem: I couldn't do it by myself. And she was like fearless, okay, 350 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,680 Gloria Steinem: So I said, can we do it together? And then 351 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,520 Gloria Steinem: if I lose all my saliva and can't say anything, 352 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,639 Gloria Steinem: you know you'll be there to take over. And so 353 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,119 Gloria Steinem: we did it together for a while. Then she had 354 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,600 Gloria Steinem: a baby and wanted to stay home, so flow Kennedy, 355 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:40,560 Gloria Steinem: who was a very outrageous, wonderful civil rights lawyer, and 356 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,280 Gloria Steinem: then we started to do it together and campuses began 357 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:46,560 Gloria Steinem: to invite us. 358 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:48,440 ETS: Were you still nervous every time? 359 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:49,920 Gloria Steinem: Every time? Every time? 360 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,040 ETS: Do you still feel that way? 361 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,240 Gloria Steinem: Yes, if you told me I never had to speak 362 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,080 Gloria Steinem: in public again, as long as I would think, I'll think. 363 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,080 Gloria Steinem: I mean, I enjoy groups in the living room, you know, 364 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,680 Gloria Steinem: where we can all talk. But being in front of 365 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:11,919 Gloria Steinem: an audience is like my idea of helping. And I 366 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,119 Gloria Steinem: got over by got over it, or I did it 367 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,040 Gloria Steinem: anyway because I talked about it. And when I talked 368 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,560 Gloria Steinem: about fear of speaking, I discovered, of course that tons 369 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,920 Gloria Steinem: of other people in the audience had the same fear. 370 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,320 ETS: Oh so you talked about it. 371 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,880 Gloria Steinem: Yes, No, I always write. 372 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:29,800 ETS: How did you talk about it? 373 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,280 Gloria Steinem: I just explained that you may think I feel normal 374 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:36,760 Gloria Steinem: standing here at this podium. 375 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: No, I said the other day, my husband feels the 376 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: same way that you didn't. He said, talking in public 377 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: is my worst nightmare. I mean everyone's worst nightmare. I said, Oh, 378 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: it's my dream, not everyone. 379 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:49,879 ETS: Some of us are. 380 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,720 Gloria Steinem: Well, it's interesting to figure out why that is. I 381 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,760 Gloria Steinem: don't know why it is, whether it's our childhood experience. 382 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,080 Gloria Steinem: Because I wasn't going to school, I didn't have the 383 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,919 Gloria Steinem: experience of speaking before the class, or because writing because 384 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,080 Gloria Steinem: of Louisa Maylcott writing was my normal. I don't know, 385 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,760 Gloria Steinem: but I definitely if somebody had given me a choice 386 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,560 Gloria Steinem: forget it, I never would. 387 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:13,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: Have been. 388 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,040 ETS: At this point. 389 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: Gloria's writing, as well as her organizing work, had propelled 390 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: her into the national spotlight as a feminist leader. 391 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,080 Gloria Steinem: Will present miss Gloria Steinem. 392 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,040 ETS: Gloria Steinem. 393 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,600 Archival: Gloria Steinem is obviously for most women in this country, 394 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:34,040 Archival: the problem is survival, to not be afraid to speak 395 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,240 Archival: out and to question the system. A feminism which means humanism, 396 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:39,280 Archival: of course. 397 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,400 ETS: So I asked her how she took on the role 398 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,280 ETS: of an organizer. 399 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,280 Gloria Steinem: It came out of being on campuses where they were 400 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,119 Gloria Steinem: trying to start a women's center, or rape was a 401 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,359 Gloria Steinem: problem on campus and there really needed to be a 402 00:23:54,400 --> 00:24:00,040 Gloria Steinem: better security system. Whatever the problem on campus was, the 403 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:05,119 Gloria Steinem: students themselves were well aware of it, and I felt 404 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:06,560 Gloria Steinem: I was there to support them. 405 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,440 ETS: You spent decades organizing across racial lines at a time 406 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,680 ETS: when the feminist movement was really criticized for centering white women. 407 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,520 ETS: Can you tell us about why it was so important 408 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,960 ETS: to you that the women of color you organized with 409 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,879 ETS: like your Women's Action Alliance co founder Dorothy Pittman Hughes 410 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:22,800 ETS: were recognized. 411 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,280 Gloria Steinem: Well, it just seemed to me that it was about 412 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:31,320 Gloria Steinem: speaking of women's experience, and I could speak of my experience, 413 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:38,919 Gloria Steinem: but women of color had an additional experience usually, so 414 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,439 Gloria Steinem: it made sense that we did it together. Also, I 415 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,600 Gloria Steinem: happen to know these fearless women, Dorothy Fitman, who's flow 416 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:52,200 Gloria Steinem: Kennedy right, and they were instructing me. And that also 417 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,960 Gloria Steinem: made me see that because we were there together, we 418 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,960 Gloria Steinem: got a different and more representative audience than we would 419 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,880 Gloria Steinem: to have if either one of us was alone. So 420 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,280 Gloria Steinem: it just became clear that it was a good thing. 421 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,000 ETS: Gloria was sixty six when she got married for the 422 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,800 ETS: first time in her life to David Bail, father of 423 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,760 ETS: actor Christian Bale. When asked about getting married, despite previously 424 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,080 ETS: criticizing marriage as an institution, she said, it proved that 425 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,320 ETS: feminism is the ability to choose what's right at each 426 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:23,480 ETS: time in our lives. 427 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,280 ETS: Was your marriage in itself kind of a pivot? 428 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,480 Gloria Steinem: I don't think that I that either one of us 429 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,200 Gloria Steinem: would have at that age on our own thought about 430 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,200 Gloria Steinem: getting married. But he had been born in South Africa, 431 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,200 Gloria Steinem: and he came with his son, who was an actor, 432 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,720 Gloria Steinem: so that was legitimate at that time. But then his 433 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,640 Gloria Steinem: son became a citizen, so it just became a need 434 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,280 Gloria Steinem: and we just did it in the most simple possible way, 435 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,240 Gloria Steinem: you know, standing in the line, you know where you 436 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,119 Gloria Steinem: get a marriage license and so. And also my friend 437 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,120 Gloria Steinem: Wilma Mankiller, who was the chief of the Cherokee Nation, 438 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,919 Gloria Steinem: offered us a Cherokee wedding, which meant walking around the 439 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:15,080 Gloria Steinem: fire five times while her husband said things in Cherokee 440 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,360 Gloria Steinem: we didn't understand, which is the same ceremony in India, 441 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:20,879 Gloria Steinem: actually walking around the fire. 442 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,119 ETS: In two thousand and three, Gloria lost her husband David 443 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,440 ETS: to brain lymphoma after just three years of marriage. 444 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,359 ETS: How do you carry the grief? And Carrie, what is 445 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,479 ETS: happening with you personally when you continue to show up 446 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,000 ETS: doing such public facing work and asked so much of you. 447 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:48,040 Gloria Steinem: Well, I wasn't always. I mean David was in first 448 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,720 Gloria Steinem: for I think three months in a New York hospital, 449 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,600 Gloria Steinem: so I mean I was not traveling. I was sitting 450 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,720 Gloria Steinem: there in the hospital. And then I flew with him 451 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,040 Gloria Steinem: a tiny plane, a very scary plane, so that he 452 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,600 Gloria Steinem: could be with his family in California. So it just 453 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,680 Gloria Steinem: was organic in the way it happened. 454 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: Gloria has experience and accomplished many extraordinary things throughout her life, 455 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: and despite the difficult moments, she continues to push toward 456 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: a better future. So what's next for Gloria steinem More 457 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:43,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: after the break? You're doing so much, still gathering these 458 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: talking circles and gathering these communities here in your living room. 459 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: What do you feel like you still have left to do? 460 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,399 Gloria Steinem: Well? I love the talking circles, which, of course we 461 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,960 Gloria Steinem: thought we invented. And then once when Wilma Mankeller was 462 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,600 Gloria Steinem: in town, we invited her and she sat here probably worthy, 463 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,600 Gloria Steinem: and she said, after we'd gone around a couple of 464 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,359 Gloria Steinem: she said, you know, well, when we do this, we 465 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,320 Gloria Steinem: use a talking stick. We'd like reinvented the world's most 466 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:15,119 Gloria Steinem: ancient tradition of sitting around a campfire or sitting in 467 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,920 Gloria Steinem: a circle. And I think that's partly what we do, 468 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,520 Gloria Steinem: don't you. I mean, it's what seems like we're inventing 469 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,600 Gloria Steinem: is actually something that existed in our past in one 470 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:28,439 Gloria Steinem: form or another. 471 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,440 ETS: What do you think your version of success is right 472 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:33,800 ETS: now at this point in your life. 473 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,160 Gloria Steinem: Well, I want to make sure that I keep my house, 474 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,680 Gloria Steinem: which is a little ippy. Sometimes I have a book 475 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,320 Gloria Steinem: of essays vastly overdue for my publisher. I really want 476 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,640 Gloria Steinem: to finish that, and I guess I hope I don't 477 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,640 Gloria Steinem: die saying, but. 478 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,280 ETS: How do you think about managing your bandwidth? That's a 479 00:28:59,320 --> 00:28:59,840 ETS: lot of things. 480 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,320 Gloria Steinem: It is. I have friends, I mean, Amy Richards is 481 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,440 Gloria Steinem: the blessing of my life who just walked in to 482 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,240 Gloria Steinem: help me with research many years ago and has ever 483 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,000 Gloria Steinem: since been a blessing. And other friends, and the demands 484 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,760 Gloria Steinem: of what's going on? I mean, is there a presidential election? 485 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,320 Gloria Steinem: Are we trying to get rid of Trump? You know? 486 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,479 Gloria Steinem: What is the what is the need of the time. 487 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,920 ETS: When we did the talking circle here a couple of 488 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,920 ETS: weeks ago in Women's Sports, I opened it by saying, 489 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,000 ETS: the one other time that I had been here to 490 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,200 ETS: one of your talking circles was pretty immediately after this 491 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,720 ETS: past presidential election, Trump's second presidential election, in a conversation 492 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,520 ETS: about well, where do we go from here? What are 493 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:43,320 ETS: our levers of power? 494 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,640 ETS: What do we do? And for me, as a millennial participant, 495 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:53,080 ETS: it felt humbling and quite frankly embarrassing, that we let 496 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,480 ETS: you down. You and your generation fought for so many 497 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,880 ETS: rights and we've been beginning to see them roll back. 498 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,440 ETS: How do you feel about that, from you know, having 499 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,280 ETS: fought for all of this, to see some of it 500 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,120 ETS: rolled back? And are there glimmers of hope? 501 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,560 Gloria Steinem: Well, how we live every day is as crucial to 502 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,600 Gloria Steinem: us as who is president. We must be one of 503 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,520 Gloria Steinem: the only world democracies where we've never had a woman president. 504 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,239 Gloria Steinem: That makes no sense. There any number of women, you know, 505 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,560 Gloria Steinem: obviously who could and should have been president. So we 506 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,600 Gloria Steinem: still have that to work on. We don't have a 507 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,120 Gloria Steinem: democracy yet. The same is true about a little less 508 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,800 Gloria Steinem: true but somewhat true about the Supreme Court and about 509 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,800 Gloria Steinem: other places of power. And the home is a place 510 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,520 Gloria Steinem: of power. So the question is are men raising children 511 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,600 Gloria Steinem: as much as women are? Do men wake up at 512 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,600 Gloria Steinem: night when the baby cries as much as women do? 513 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,760 Gloria Steinem: Is her work as important as his? Democracy starts? There 514 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,760 Gloria Steinem: is seeing women in these particular positions of power one 515 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,840 Gloria Steinem: of the things that you really hope to see. Will 516 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,400 Gloria Steinem: that be a marker of success for you? Yes? No, no, 517 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:17,920 Gloria Steinem: it did, absolutely. It does make me happy to see, 518 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,600 Gloria Steinem: you know, a woman who you know is just they're 519 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,480 Gloria Steinem: doing what she does. And probably a disproportionate number of 520 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,360 Gloria Steinem: women start their own business because they can't always make 521 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:39,600 Gloria Steinem: it up through the hierarchy of someone else's business and 522 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,280 Gloria Steinem: the questions like family leave and so on are still 523 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:44,680 Gloria Steinem: not what they should be. 524 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,880 ETS: Are a large number of women starting business on their own? 525 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,920 ETS: Do you see that as society moving towards success or 526 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,680 ETS: still a failure because they can't make it in the 527 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:56,800 ETS: structure that exists. 528 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,840 Gloria Steinem: Well, it depends on the individual woman. I think if 529 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,440 Gloria Steinem: she if that's what she wants, that success for her. 530 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,560 Gloria Steinem: You've said that older women get to experience a kind 531 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:12,719 Gloria Steinem: of freedom because they've moved past the expectations of reproductive years. 532 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,880 Gloria Steinem: What does it actually feel like to be freer at 533 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:21,600 Gloria Steinem: this point? Well, for one thing, you're way less judged 534 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,560 Gloria Steinem: by the man you're with, either because you're not with 535 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,240 Gloria Steinem: a man, or because you have an identity of your own, 536 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,160 Gloria Steinem: and that really does make a difference. I remember a 537 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,000 Gloria Steinem: friend saying to me years ago she bought some flat 538 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,960 Gloria Steinem: shoes and I said, what do you have to wear 539 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,120 Gloria Steinem: them with? And she said, just the shortest man I've 540 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:48,960 Gloria Steinem: ever gone out. So we may still be adjusting ourselves 541 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,520 Gloria Steinem: to the men in our lives more than vice versa. 542 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,480 ETS: You ended your book Life on the Road with I 543 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,600 ETS: can go on the road because i can come home. 544 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,320 ETS: I can come home because I'm free to leave. So 545 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,920 ETS: what does home mean to you now? 546 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,080 Gloria Steinem: For years, I was so accustomed to being on the 547 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,360 Gloria Steinem: road that what I had, including in this space when 548 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,640 Gloria Steinem: I was living here with my friend Barbaraessa, were packing boxes. 549 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,719 Gloria Steinem: So once I finally, you know, unpacked everything, had a 550 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,240 Gloria Steinem: desk of my own, I was in heaven. It was 551 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:24,960 Gloria Steinem: orgasmic to have a desk. 552 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,000 ETS: Gloria's Foundation was established to preserve this historic New York 553 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,960 ETS: City apartment as a hub for future activism, where we 554 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,440 ETS: hosted the Talking Circle. So what does it mean to 555 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,800 ETS: think about your home as becoming a place for the 556 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,880 ETS: next generation of organizers. 557 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,760 Gloria Steinem: Once I was in London, where brownstones like this originated, 558 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,520 Gloria Steinem: of course, I saw a brownstone that had a plaque 559 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,840 Gloria Steinem: on the front, and it had been a meeting place 560 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,719 Gloria Steinem: and a living place during the suffrage era, And that 561 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,040 Gloria Steinem: was what gave me the idea of doing it here. 562 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,520 Gloria Steinem: I thought, you know, if Virginia saw Wolf understood we 563 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,400 Gloria Steinem: needed a room of one's own, We need a meeting 564 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,960 Gloria Steinem: place of our own, and if I can contribute to that, 565 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,480 Gloria Steinem: then I'd like to maintain that and leave this house 566 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,919 Gloria Steinem: for that purpose. I moved here with where we are 567 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,640 Gloria Steinem: now with my friend Barbara Nessam, who's a wonderful artist. 568 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,720 Gloria Steinem: Whoever came in first got the balcony that we built, 569 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:33,000 Gloria Steinem: that somebody's front porch there to sleep in overnight. Whoever 570 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,399 Gloria Steinem: came in second got the couch in the other room. 571 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,840 Gloria Steinem: As you can see, I'm into elephants. There are many 572 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:45,640 Gloria Steinem: same and Amy Richards who also lived here, done some, 573 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,840 Gloria Steinem: so we've all contributed. I think it ought to reflect 574 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,320 Gloria Steinem: the wishes and the needs of the people who live here, 575 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:59,520 Gloria Steinem: and that's not up to me. I mean, I can 576 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,800 Gloria Steinem: imagine a place to have meetings as we are now. 577 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,400 Gloria Steinem: I wouldn't say the kitchen is a gourmet cook's kitchen. 578 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:15,000 Gloria Steinem: It's more like a refrigerator with them right, But it 579 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,040 Gloria Steinem: will reflect the needs of whoever is living here. 580 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,799 ETS: You did say to me before we started that you 581 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,759 ETS: think that we're meant to live among animals. 582 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:29,000 Gloria Steinem: Why well, in our natural state, we are living among 583 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,720 Gloria Steinem: all kinds of animals, different depending on where we are, 584 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:41,200 Gloria Steinem: and I think that we are all living creatures who 585 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:46,719 Gloria Steinem: communicate in different ways. I felt it more when I 586 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:52,279 Gloria Steinem: was living in Africa briefly, and you're more conscious there 587 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,320 Gloria Steinem: of communicating with animals, you know. I remember a friend 588 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,520 Gloria Steinem: of mine and I were riding an elephant to going someplace, 589 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,480 Gloria Steinem: and my friend dropped her lens cap on the ground 590 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,359 Gloria Steinem: and the elephant picked it up with its trunk and 591 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,080 Gloria Steinem: gave it back to the right person. So I thought, 592 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:17,440 Gloria Steinem: you know, we're all sentient creatures and we gain I 593 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:24,479 Gloria Steinem: think by having small animals, loving big animals, whatever it is, 594 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,960 Gloria Steinem: we're meant to be part of the all living world. 595 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: Gloria has said that she hopes her legacy will be 596 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: helping people to become the unique, valuable, loved and lovable 597 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: person they want to be. That's not a legacy about 598 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: policy or politics. 599 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,719 ETS: It's personal. Why that above all else? I decided to 600 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:46,200 ETS: ask her. 601 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:52,560 Gloria Steinem: I think that that ability to flower as a unique 602 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,920 Gloria Steinem: individual is the purpose of democracy, is the purpose of 603 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:04,560 Gloria Steinem: regimes that are not totalitarian dictatorial regimes. Is the purpose 604 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:11,520 Gloria Steinem: of families that are democratic rather than hierarchical. You know, 605 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,840 Gloria Steinem: each of us who gets born here is a unique 606 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,680 Gloria Steinem: miracle who could never have happened before and could never 607 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:26,279 Gloria Steinem: happen again. Yeah, so how great is that? Is there 608 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,680 Gloria Steinem: something that at one point you saw as a real 609 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,879 Gloria Steinem: low point for you, but now in retrospect, you really 610 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:33,520 Gloria Steinem: see it as having built you to the success you 611 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,200 Gloria Steinem: are today. I probably if you'd ask the younger me 612 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,279 Gloria Steinem: in my twenties, I would have thought that having a 613 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,880 Gloria Steinem: job was a good idea. And I was applying for 614 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,239 Gloria Steinem: jobs at the New York Times and you know, and 615 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:58,680 Gloria Steinem: a contributing editor at Women's magazine. But just once I 616 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,480 Gloria Steinem: was hired to do a kind of New York magazine 617 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,719 Gloria Steinem: in the back of one of the big women's magazines, 618 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,440 Gloria Steinem: and they had the nerve to expect me to be 619 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,680 Gloria Steinem: in the office two days a week. I quit. 620 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,960 ETS: This is going to be very relevant to our younger listeners. 621 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,880 Gloria Steinem: I quit, and I went out in the street. It 622 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,480 Gloria Steinem: was sunny, I bought an ice cream cone. I walked 623 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,160 Gloria Steinem: in the street. I was happy. It was too much, Yes, 624 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,799 Gloria Steinem: too much to be in. Is there anything that we 625 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,640 Gloria Steinem: haven't covered that you want to make sure that we 626 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:38,120 Gloria Steinem: talk about? Well? I hope that we, as diverse women 627 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,719 Gloria Steinem: look at the places of power, whether there are state 628 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,760 Gloria Steinem: legislatures or the courts, or the White House or whatever. 629 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,880 Gloria Steinem: They are and say to ourselves, Okay, how come they 630 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,520 Gloria Steinem: don't look like the country the people who are there. 631 00:38:55,200 --> 00:39:00,400 Gloria Steinem: We're not living in a democracy until they are. That's 632 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,560 Gloria Steinem: of it. And the other end is kids have fathers 633 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:09,720 Gloria Steinem: as well as mothers. Until fathers and mothers are equally responsible, 634 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:15,319 Gloria Steinem: then we're not even setting the tone of a democracy 635 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:16,440 Gloria Steinem: in our own houses. 636 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,440 ETS: I will tell you that is one of my biggest things, 637 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,200 ETS: that fathers are equally as responsible. I chair our school 638 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,719 ETS: board and one of the first things I said is 639 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,000 ETS: that any communication goes to every single parent. I don't 640 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,359 ETS: care who you think the default parent is. Every piece 641 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,120 ETS: of communication goes to them because we can't expect our 642 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:41,200 ETS: fathers to be working autonomously for our children until they 643 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,319 ETS: have all the information. Otherwise they're just default asking the 644 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,080 ETS: mothers what they should be doing, and that's really not 645 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,960 ETS: taking anything off the mother's plate to begin with. What 646 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:49,840 ETS: was the response. 647 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,080 ETS: I got some pushback. 648 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,839 ETS: I got some pushback both from the mothers who said, well, 649 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,840 ETS: I do it all anyway, so why would my husband 650 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,360 ETS: need to know? And I got some pushback from father's saying, 651 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,920 ETS: you know, I delegate this so I don't need to 652 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,960 ETS: be on the communications, and we held very firm as 653 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,160 ETS: a school and said, all official communications will go to 654 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,719 ETS: every single parent. You can decide how that works in 655 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,800 ETS: your household, but as an institution, every piece of information 656 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:14,680 ETS: goes to every parent. 657 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:20,080 Gloria Steinem: Oh that's great that you did that. I'mgoing Do you 658 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:25,440 Gloria Steinem: think you'll pivot again? I don't imagine leaving this house. 659 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,439 Gloria Steinem: I mean during the pandemic, I lived for a year 660 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,920 Gloria Steinem: in California and I was in a beautiful little cottage 661 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,840 Gloria Steinem: that a friend gave me, with an orange orchard and 662 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,799 Gloria Steinem: the horse stables nearby. I mean, it was heaven. And 663 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,600 Gloria Steinem: all I wanted to do was be home in New 664 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,240 Gloria Steinem: York so I could because it's a car culture there. 665 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,040 Gloria Steinem: I wanted to be able to walk in the street 666 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:57,480 Gloria Steinem: and actually see people. So I can't imagine that I 667 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:02,399 Gloria Steinem: would want to leave where I am right now? 668 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,720 ETS: Where do you draw inspiration from? Now? 669 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:13,080 Gloria Steinem: From you from this having to answer question? Sometimes amazingly 670 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:18,160 Gloria Steinem: from television. There's a show called Call the Midwife. Have 671 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:23,000 Gloria Steinem: you ever seen this? And because it's about assisting at 672 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,800 Gloria Steinem: home births in London I think in the sixties or something, 673 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:35,000 Gloria Steinem: it's very intimately involved with birth, which I have not been, 674 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,000 Gloria Steinem: although my sister had six children, and you know right, So, 675 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:45,480 Gloria Steinem: I think all of the human experience, especially if we 676 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:51,080 Gloria Steinem: have not been exposed to it, remains to be remains 677 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:58,200 Gloria Steinem: a place of excitement, interest, empathy, fun. After all, oxytocin, 678 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,399 Gloria Steinem: which I think is the chemical that allows us to empathize, 679 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:08,680 Gloria Steinem: is only generated when we're together. It's why solitary confinement 680 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,759 Gloria Steinem: is the worst punishment. Everywhere in the world. You may 681 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,080 Gloria Steinem: be being fed and kept warm and so on, but 682 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,239 Gloria Steinem: without other human beings, it's the worst kind of punishment 683 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:29,200 Gloria Steinem: anybody knows. So everything we do deserves and needs to 684 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,080 Gloria Steinem: have some time together. 685 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,120 ETS: What are you watching these days? And have you seen 686 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:35,000 ETS: heated rivalry? 687 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:42,440 Gloria Steinem: No? I haven't. I'm watching Call the Midwife mostly anything else. 688 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,239 ETS: Give me to other things. I should know people are 689 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,000 ETS: into it. It's sweeping the nation. Gloria, this has been 690 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,800 ETS: truly unbelievable for me. Thank you so much for giving 691 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:53,680 ETS: us your time, you. 692 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,080 Gloria Steinem: Know, thank you so much. Brought everything you've done, everything, 693 00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:58,120 Gloria Steinem: Thank you, thank you. 694 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,040 ETS: I want to take a moment to reflect on the 695 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,320 ETS: truly remarkable life and work of Gloria S. Dynam Gloria 696 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,279 ETS: wasn't just a part of the women's movement in the 697 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,200 ETS: United States, she was one of its architects. As a journalist, 698 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,800 ETS: she challenged the current systems of power through trailblazing reporting 699 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,000 ETS: and co founded mis magazine, creating one of the first 700 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,680 ETS: national platforms dedicated to feminist voices. As an organizer, she 701 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,560 ETS: helped launch the National Women's Political Caucus, working to elect 702 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,359 ETS: and support women in office, and her impact has been 703 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,440 ETS: recognized at the highest levels, including receiving the Presidential Medal 704 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,360 ETS: of Freedom from President Barack Obama. 705 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,239 ETS: But what inspires me most about Gloria is the. 706 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,120 ETS: Way she brings women together, believing that real change starts 707 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,960 ETS: when we realize our collective power. Gloria, thank you for 708 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,200 ETS: continuing to inspire generations of women to find their voices 709 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,200 ETS: and use them. Happy Women's History Month and a happy Birthday. 710 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,600 ETS: You can keep up with Gloria on her foundation's website 711 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,320 ETS: and substack, as well as on Instagram at Gloria Steinem 712 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:05,520 ETS: See you next week. 713 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,640 Archival: I recommend the freedom that comes from asking "compared to what?" 714 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:15,520 ETS: Thanks for listening to she pivots. If you like this episode, 715 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,960 ETS: follow the show so you never miss a pivot story 716 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,040 ETS: and share it with one woman in your life who 717 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,799 ETS: might need to hear it. To learn more about our 718 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:27,520 ETS: guests and join our community, follow us on Instagram at @shepivotsthepodcast. 719 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,200 ETS: Subscribe to our substack for exclusive content and behind the 720 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:36,960 ETS: scenes conversations. You can also find us at shepivotspod dot com. 721 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,520 ETS: This episode was produced and edited by Paige Davis Janatt, 722 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,319 ETS: with sound editing and mixing by Nina Pollock. Logistics and 723 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,480 ETS: planning by Amostopic and Kendall Crupkin. Research by Christine Dickinson. 724 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,920 ETS: She pivots is proud to be a part of the 725 00:44:50,920 --> 00:45:03,759 ETS: iHeart Podcast Network. I endorse she Pivots