1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, 2 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host job and Strickland. 3 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,159 Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts and how the 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: tech are you? You know? Since we're wrapping up my 5 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: run as host of tech Stuff, I thought it might 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: be a good time to revisit one of the guiding 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: principles of this show, that being critical thinking. I've always 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: said Tech Stuff really has two guiding principles, critical thinking 9 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: and compassion. That only with both of these can you, 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: in my opinion, live an accountable and decent life. You 11 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: need to have compassion so that you're not a total jerk, 12 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: and you need to have critical thinking so you're not 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: a total dip. And critical thinking is absolutely important in 14 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: all aspects of life. I like to bring it up 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: within the context of technology because tech is both incredibly 16 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: complicated and it also touches our lives every single day 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: in hundreds or thousands of ways. And if we don't 18 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: think critically, we can make some pretty darn huge mistakes, 19 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: either through incorrect assumptions or because someone has led us astray. 20 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: Tech is one of those disciplines that is well suited 21 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: for misunderstanding and for misdirection. Because of that complexity, there's 22 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: stuff we can do in tech that seems almost magical, 23 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: and the jargon around tech can be really difficult to 24 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: parts like. That's not to say that all the jargon 25 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: or the terminology is inherently bad. That's not really the 26 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: case either. There are lots of terms that are very specific, 27 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: and the reason why we use them is so that 28 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: we communicate clearly what we mean and we avoid ambiguity. 29 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: But then there's the flip side of it, where if 30 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: you laiden something down with enough jargon, it becomes indecipherable. 31 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: You can't even understand what's being said. I think the 32 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: ultimate expression of how jargon can become gibberish is the 33 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: humorous script for the fictional turbo incabulator. This was a gag. 34 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: This was just a fake thing, a fake piece of technology, 35 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: with a script that was intentionally made to be comedically 36 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: dense with jargon meaningless jargon. So I did an episode 37 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: about this ages ago. But let me do a quick 38 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: excerpt from that script. So here's how it typically starts. 39 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: And there are multiple versions of this online. By the way, 40 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: if you search turbo incabulator on YouTube. You should come 41 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: up with quite a few different versions of it, and 42 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: they are all variations on this same theme. So here 43 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: we go. For a number of years now, Yorick has 44 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: been proceeding in order to bring perfection to the crudely 45 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: conceived idea of a transmission that would not only supply 46 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: in verse reactive current for use in unilateral phase detractors, 47 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: but would also be capable of automatically synchronizing cardinal grameters. 48 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: Such an instrument is the turboincabulator. Now, basically the only 49 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: new principle involved is that instead of power being generated 50 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: by the relative motion of conductors and fluxes, it is 51 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: produced by the modial interaction of magneto reluctance and capacitive directants. 52 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: The original machine had a base plate of prefamulated emultes 53 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: surmounted by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way 54 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: that the two sperving bearings were in a direct line 55 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: with a panametric fan. Now the piece goes on from 56 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: there a little bit longer, and you get the point. Though. 57 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: This is a send up of those technical manuals that 58 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: would have so much jargon in them as to become 59 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: almost meaningless that you can't really parse what is being said, 60 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: and you feel like you have to look up every 61 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: other word just to try and figure out what the 62 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: meaning is, and you might ultimately come to the conclusion 63 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: that even the person who wrote it doesn't really know 64 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: what the meaning is. That's the joke, but it's based 65 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: in reality. You know, there are those technical manuals out 66 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: there that are so jargon heavy as to be almost 67 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: a self parody, and this opens up opportunities for people 68 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: who have underhanded motivations to try and mislead folks in 69 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: an attempt to get something out of them, usually money. 70 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: That's typically what it is, is that you have someone 71 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: who is leaning on ignorance to pull one over on 72 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: a victim. So I've really been thinking again about scam 73 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: artists and investment schemes. Now that's something that spans well 74 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,239 Speaker 1: beyond the tech sector. It's not just tech that sees 75 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: these sorts of things, but I think it's safe to 76 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: say the tech world is particularly prone to such shenanigans, 77 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: largely because a clever huckster can convince people that something 78 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: that is implausible or perhaps even impossible, is actually achievable 79 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: just through the wonders of technology. And again it's easy 80 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: to understand how this could happen, how people could fall 81 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: for these kinds of things, because consider the technology that 82 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: you interact with on a daily basis. Our computers are 83 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: phenomenally powerful these days. You can have a computer that 84 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: has processors in it that allow it to do AI 85 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: processing on your machine. That is something that was unthinkable 86 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: only a few years ago. And most of us carry 87 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: a small computer around in our pockets, and you can 88 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: use that computer to do everything from make a phone 89 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: call if you're an old fuddy duddy like me, or 90 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: use it to look stuff up online. Or you can 91 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: use it to take photos or video. You could even 92 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: edit those images and those videos and then upload them 93 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: to social platforms. You know, there's a lot of cool 94 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: stuff you can do with that one device. Or you 95 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: can jump in a car. Now, your typical modern car 96 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: has remarkable technology in it, and depending on the car, 97 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: it might even be able to drive itself under specific conditions. 98 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: We've also got things like home automation, and then they're 99 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 1: scary stuff like targeted advertising. We've got things that can 100 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: be either cool or scary, depending upon how they are 101 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: made and what they're supposed to do, like drones and 102 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: all sorts of other things that you know. Back when 103 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: I was a kid, I would have thought belong in 104 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: science fiction, But today they're commonplace. So we've become used 105 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: to technology being able to do incredible things. So it's 106 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: understandable that if someone were to come to us with 107 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: an extraordinary claim about tech, we might be tempted to 108 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: believe in the dream right from the start. I mean, 109 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: when I was a kid, I certainly didn't think I 110 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: would see a day where I would be carrying a 111 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: computer around with me everywhere I went. So why can't 112 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: we have a device that's the size of a desktop 113 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: printer that could run more than one hundred medical tests 114 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: on the tiniest drop of blood. That, of course, was 115 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: the point of Thernose, the biotech company that was purporting 116 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: to create a desktop medical analysis machine, one that ultimately 117 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: could end up being sold to consumers. Not just something 118 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: that would be found in clinics or whatever, but you 119 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: could own one of these things and you would take 120 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: a very tiny pinprick of blood, and then you could 121 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: run tests that not only would tell you if there 122 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: was anything currently wrong with you, but also analyze your 123 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: blood to look for potential things to look out for 124 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: down the road, right conditions or diseases that you might 125 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: be prone to developing in the future, so you could 126 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: be on the lookout for that kind of stuff, like 127 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: you could say, hey, you know, you could be pre 128 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: diabetic or something along those lines. The problem was, of course, 129 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: it just didn't work. It certainly didn't work the way 130 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: it was being advertised. Even while it was under development, 131 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: the company Theranose was found out to be using other 132 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: companies technologies to analyze blood samples. They were taking larger 133 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: samples of blood than what they were supposed to do, 134 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: because again, it was supposed to be a microdrop of blood, 135 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: but they couldn't get that to work. So they would 136 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: take larger samples of blood or sometimes small samples, and 137 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: then they would dilute it with water, hoping that that 138 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't mess things up too much spoiler alerted mess things 139 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: up too much. Then they would run those samples through 140 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: other companies analytic technology, not their own one. They would 141 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: make it seem like it was in their own technology, 142 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: but it really wasn't. They never really cracked the code 143 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: on this, and in fact, there were plenty of people 144 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: who were concerned that it was inherently impossible. That people thought, well, 145 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: of course technology should be able to do this, without 146 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: really taking the time to understand the limitations of the 147 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: technology they were talking about. And there still stands a 148 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: question to this day as to whether the founder, Elizabeth Holmes, 149 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: whether she truly believed in the technology or if she 150 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 1: was aware early on that she was running up against 151 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: a brick wall, but of going because at that point 152 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: she already had huge amounts of investment behind her. This 153 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: was one of those examples of the fake it till 154 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: you make it strategy, where you come up with an idea, 155 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: you think the idea is really cool, you don't have 156 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: the foggiest notion of how you're going to make that 157 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: idea reality, but you go ahead and you create a 158 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: business around it, and you get investment behind it, and 159 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: then you figure somewhere along the way, we'll figure it out. 160 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: We'll get the smartest people, We'll put them to work 161 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: on this problem. They'll engineer a way out of it 162 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: and will be good. In the case of THERAPNHOS, that 163 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: just didn't happen. Instead, it was a business built around 164 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: an ideal, but it was also built around lies and 165 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: smoke and mirrors, and ultimately it all came crashing down. 166 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: And that's kind of what I wanted to talk about. 167 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: That's why I want to talk about critical thinking, because 168 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: critical thinking would have saved a lot of people a 169 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: lot of money if they had been willing to ask 170 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: the right questions to the right people and to really 171 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: heed those answers, could have, you know, saved themselves millions 172 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: of dollars of losses. And I don't particularly feel the 173 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: need to cry over rich people losing some percentage of 174 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: their mass amount of wealth. It doesn't really bother me 175 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: that much. But when it falls to people who can't 176 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: afford to lose money, that's where I get really concerned. 177 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: And I also just worry that the complacency, the tendency 178 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: to accept things at a surface level, trickles down economics. 179 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: I don't think trickle down properly, but ignorance certainly can. 180 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: And that's where the opportunity comes in for scam artists, 181 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: whether they are purposefully attempting to fool victims into handing 182 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: over large amounts of cash, or they've actually deluded themselves 183 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: into believing in an unproven technology. The tech world is 184 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: complex and amazing enough to provide the perfect environment for 185 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 1: a con. So in this episode, when we come back 186 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: from this break, we're going to talk about a couple 187 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: of notable examples of cons and scams that have happened 188 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: in and around the tech industry and why critical thinking 189 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: is so very important. But first, let's take a quick 190 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: break to thank our sponsors. So a lot of scams, 191 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: not just in the tech world but elsewhere, follow a 192 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: pattern like the pyramid scheme, or more specifically, the Ponzi scheme. 193 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: The Ponzi scheme is named after a guy who was 194 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: named Charles Ponzi scheme. Oh no, I'm sorry, it's just 195 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: Charles Ponzi. He was not the first to come up 196 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: with this particular scheme. By the way, there was a 197 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: woman who pulled essentially the exact same thing, but you 198 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: know what, she had the gall to be a woman, 199 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: So obviously we need to name the scheme after a 200 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: dude who did it years later. That's just me being 201 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: a little snarky, But anyway, the basic concept is you 202 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 1: convinced people to invest in your business idea and then 203 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: they're going to get some sort of insane return on 204 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: their investment, typically on a very aggressive timeline. So Ponzi, 205 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: for example, claimed that people who bought into his business 206 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: proposition would start getting a fifty percent return on their 207 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: investment within a month and a half, like forty five days. 208 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: That's a crazy amount of return. And the way he 209 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: would guarantee this, the way he would cover those returns 210 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: because like his business wasn't a business, it was just 211 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: robbing Peter to pay Paul. Essentially, he would use money 212 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: from subsequent rounds of investors to show his earlier rounds 213 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: of investors how well the plan was going. So let's 214 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: break this down with a really simplified explanation of what 215 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: was going on. So let's say that you are a 216 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: low down, no good crook and you have convinced me 217 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: to put one hundred of my American dollars in our 218 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: business proposition. And in the meantime, after I have already 219 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: put one hundred dollars in, you then turn to convince 220 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: other people to give you money in a subsequent round 221 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: of investments. And forty five days after you hooked me, 222 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: you say, hey, good news, Johnny boy. Your investment has 223 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: a fifty dollars return on it. Already do you want 224 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: your payout. Do you want to get your fifty bucks 225 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: and keep your one hundred dollars in as your initial investment. 226 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: And what you're counting on is what a lot of 227 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: people actually would do. I see an opportunity to get 228 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: filthy rich, Right, I just got fifty dollars back on 229 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: a one hundred dollars investment. That's still good. The investment 230 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: is still in the business. The fifty dollars is like 231 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: a dividend being paid out to me. So what I 232 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: say is, oh, you know what, No, no, no, just 233 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: hold on to that fifty dollars, reinvest it back into 234 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: the business because I'm thinking, well, now I'm going to 235 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: have one hundred and fifty dollars invested. I'm going to 236 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: get even more money because the returns are going to 237 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: keep coming in. Meanwhile, you're looking for your next round 238 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: of investors to help cover the returns of not just me, 239 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: but the people you fooled in investment round number two. 240 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: And this goes on and on until it doesn't because 241 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: these schemes ultimately reach a point where there's just no 242 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: way to get enough people to join in order to 243 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: cover everybody who is already bought into the scheme, and 244 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: folks then might start to worry that something might be 245 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: up and they might start to try to pull their 246 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: money out of this business. And then you have to 247 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: figure out, well do I pay out? And if I 248 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: do pay out, how much do I pay out? Before 249 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: I need to just pull up stakes, move out of town, 250 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: change my name, and hide all my wealth away or 251 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: you get nicked by the coppers, you know, and then 252 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: you're put before a judge and then you're fine to 253 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: timbuck to and back and then thrown in the whoscal 254 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: for good measure. So in the tech space, these pyramid 255 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: schemes happen fairly regularly, particularly in realms like cryptocurrency. You 256 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: got blockchain and crypto evangelists out there who will try 257 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: to convince greedy people to pour money into a system 258 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: only to lock down that money and then run off 259 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: with it. And that's just rampant. It's not I'm not 260 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: making a wild accusation here. You can actually go to 261 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: the website DFPI, dot CAA, dot gov and just look 262 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: at their cryptoscam tracker, or you know, just search cryptoscam tracker. 263 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: It'll pull it right up. That tracker lists dozens of 264 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: cases in which victims have been parted from their hard 265 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: earned assets. The stories are pretty similar. Usually it involves 266 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: someone being convinced to put a significant amount of money 267 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: into some sort of crypto scheme, only to have that 268 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: account locked off. Like usually there are steps to it 269 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: where first they're told, hey, in order to do anything 270 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: with this money, you actually need to increase the investment 271 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: by x amount, So like you might put five thousand 272 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: dollars worth of assets into an account and it says, well, 273 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: we need three thousand dollars more in order to really 274 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: do anything with it. Then you might start getting notifications 275 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: that hey, you're your account's doing really well, like its 276 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: increased your wealth by x amount. But you find out 277 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: when you try to withdraw that you're locked out. And 278 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: then next thing you know, the website doesn't even exist 279 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: anymore and someone has made off with your money. This 280 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: happens a lot in the crypto world, and again it's 281 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: understandable why con artists are drawn to crypto. You have 282 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: bitcoin that's trading at near one hundred thousand dollars per 283 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: coin these days. I think today it's down to ninety 284 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: five thousand. It had been flirting with one hundred thousand 285 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: last week. And it's absolutely true that if you had 286 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: bought into bitcoin in the very early days and you 287 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: were able to keep track of your digital wallet and stuff, 288 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: then you would be wicked wealthy today. Let's say that 289 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: you have bought like a dollar's worth of bitcoin back 290 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: in twenty ten, Holy canoli. You know, bitcoin was a 291 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: fraction of a dollar back in those days, so you 292 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: would have a huge amount of wealth represented in bitcoin today. Now, 293 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: set aside all the other stuff about bitcoin that I 294 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: personally find very concerning, like the environmental impact and the 295 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: prevalent use of bitcoin to do stuff like launder money 296 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: and fund a legal activities and that kind of thing. 297 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 1: The fact is bitcoin made a few people very, very wealthy, 298 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: so it's understandable that people want to jump on some 299 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: other perceived opportunity. And cryptocurrency is complicated enough that a 300 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: con artist can count on a victim's ignorance to do 301 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: a lot of the work for them. The average person 302 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: doesn't really understand how cryptocurrency works, whether it's a proof 303 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: of work or proof of stake system. The average person 304 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: just sees number go up, you know, or sometimes number 305 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 1: go down. But to the average person, cryptocurrency might as 306 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: well just be a black box. You put money into 307 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: it and then a whole lot more money comes out 308 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: of it. That's an ideal situation to run a scam. 309 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: People see this as an easy way to increase wealth. 310 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 1: They understand that there's risk, but most people don't think 311 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: that the bad stuff's going to happen to them. You know, 312 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: most people don't live their lives that way, and a 313 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 1: lot of people can't even imagine that a bad outcome 314 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: will happen. They've seen the evidence of Hey, bitcoin made 315 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: people into billionaires, why not me? NFTs fall into this 316 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: category two. Now, that's not to say that NFTs have 317 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: absolutely no legitimate use cases. I think that NFTs have 318 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: potential use cases. The problem is the incredible saturation of 319 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: the market back in like twenty twenty to twenty twenty two, 320 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: combined with rampant speculation, created a ridiculous bubble that inflated 321 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: so fast and bursts so spectacularly that to this day, 322 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: NFTs are digging out of the hole that was left behind. 323 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: You know, a ton of NFTs that at one point 324 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: or another were being touted as the next big asset 325 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: are now worthless, not virtually worthless. They're literally worthless. So 326 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: let's just talk about NFTs for us a moment to 327 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: refresh ourselves. So NFT stands for non fungible token. It 328 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: is a digital token. It's built on top of the blockchain, 329 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: and purchasing an NFT creates a digital record, and that 330 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: record proves that you are the owner of this digital asset. 331 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: But that asset is effectively a receipt like it's not 332 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: a specific thing. Like if I bought an NFT that 333 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: represents a digital photograph, the NFT isn't the photograph. The 334 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: NFT is a token that represents the photograph. So you 335 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: could think of it as I've got a certificate that 336 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: proves on the owner. That's kind of what it is. However, 337 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: an NFT doesn't mean that you actually control the asset itself, 338 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: nor does it mean you can prevent someone else from 339 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: making endless copies of that asset. So if I did 340 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: buy an NFT that represents a digital photograph, and that 341 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: photograph is up on the web somewhere, nothing stops people 342 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: from making copies of that image. They can make them 343 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: all day long. Plus I don't own the copyright to 344 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: that image. Necessarily unless that was part of the NFT agreement. Otherwise, 345 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: I just own a copy of this photo. I don't 346 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: own the copyright to the photo itself. The original photographer 347 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: or the company representing that photographer owns that. So let's 348 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: say someone minted an NFT representing a digital copy of 349 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: a novel. If I bought the NFT, would that mean 350 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: I actually bought the novel itself? Would the novel belong 351 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: to me? Would I have ownership of its IP? No, 352 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: of course not. It would be similar to me going 353 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: out to a bookstore and buying a hard print copy 354 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: of the book. If I go out and buy the 355 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: latest Stephen King novel at a bookstore, I don't suddenly 356 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: own the intellectual property. I just own a copy of 357 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: a book. That's it. Which is why I, like a 358 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: lot of other people, got really confused when a crypto 359 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: group called Spice dao. DAO actually is an initialism. It 360 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: stands for a decentralized autonomous organization. That's something else we 361 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: could talk about as far as the potential for scam dao. 362 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: Not that all DAOs are scams, they're not, but that 363 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 1: because they are a little tricky to understand, they are 364 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: a good breeding ground for scams. There's the ignorance you 365 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: can feed off of. Well. Spice DAO got famous because 366 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: this group pulled together a couple of million dollars from 367 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: its various members, and their purpose was to buy a 368 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: copy of a book. It was a book that detailed 369 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: the failed attempt of Alejandro Jodorowski's film adaptation of the 370 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: science fiction novel Doune, and that production failed spectacularly, and 371 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: this book detailed that failure and the vision of that 372 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: original adaptation. Well, the DOAO intended to purchase this book 373 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: and then sell NFTs representing parts of the book, essentially 374 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: slicing the book up into digital segments and selling NFTs 375 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: representing those segments, and then they were going to to 376 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: actually burn the physical copy that they had purchased. So 377 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: their thought was the digital NFTs would be the only 378 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: remnant of this rare book. But here's the wild and 379 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: wacky thing. They didn't realize that buying the book only 380 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: meant that they were buying a physical copy of this book. 381 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: They wouldn't have the right to do what they were 382 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,239 Speaker 1: planning to do. In fact, they expressly did not have 383 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: the right to reproduce the book in such a way, 384 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: because that violates copyright and they wouldn't own the copyright, 385 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: So they ended up spending more than one hundred times 386 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: the estimated value of the book in an effort to 387 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: carry out the scheme that they ultimately couldn't follow through on. Also, 388 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: to add insult to injury, you could actually already access 389 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: the contents of that book online for free. So you 390 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: know that was a huge missed swing right there. Now, 391 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: that particular whoopsie was due to a misunderstanding of copyright 392 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: law more than NFT technology. But the hoopla around NFTs 393 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 1: fueled the frenzy that led to that goof in the 394 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: first place. People were so excited about the potential for 395 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: NFTs to get rich. Most people were just looking at 396 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: as a way to get rich quick. They weren't asking questions, 397 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: they weren't pausing to say, wait a minute, does this 398 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: make sense? And if they had, they might have come 399 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 1: to the conclusion of, oh, no, this doesn't. This would 400 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: be an enormous waste of our money, and the auction 401 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: house would be getting way more cash than they were expecting. Again, 402 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily feel hurt by rich people losing or 403 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: gaining lots of money at the expense of each other. 404 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: If the rich want to eat each other, that's fine 405 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: by me. And by the way, this is why I 406 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: cautioned people not to get swept up in hype for 407 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: things that surround technology. Like it's good to be excited 408 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: about stuff and to be passionate about stuff, but you 409 00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: have to also temper that with critical thinking. I'll talk 410 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: about that more in just a moment, but first let's 411 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: take another quick break. Okay, before the break, I was 412 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: talking about how you know, passion is good, being excited 413 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: for stuff is good. It can be a lot of fun, 414 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: but that you should maintain critical thinking in order not 415 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: to get carried away. I think that's really important to 416 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: remember right now. I mean, it's it's probably not as 417 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: prevalent as it was a couple of years ago. I 418 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: think the NFT thing really took a lot of steam 419 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: out from some other movements, but those movements are still happening. 420 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: So if you encounter stuff like people talking about Web 421 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: three point zero, I would be cautious. Now, that's not 422 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: to say that some aspect of some version of Web 423 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: three point zero won't eventually become a really big thing, 424 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,959 Speaker 1: maybe a crucially important thing, But I would be skeptical 425 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: of any grandiose claims around Web three points oh or 426 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: like something like the metaverse, which is often conflated or 427 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: presented in conjunction with Web three point zero. I'd be 428 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: careful about anything like that, especially people who are claiming 429 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: that it's going to be the future of the Internet 430 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: or maybe even the future of computing itself. Be careful 431 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: around those types of claims. Maybe they're gonna turn out 432 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: to be true. But I feel like a lot of 433 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: people who really push the narrative on things like metaverse 434 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: or Web three point zho are the same people who 435 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: have already heavily bought into those ideas. They have sunk 436 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: a great deal of their own personal wealth into these ideas, 437 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: and their realization on their investment is entirely dependent upon 438 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: other people also buying into it, so they have an 439 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: incentive to get other folks excited about these things, whether 440 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: or not the things are worthy of being excited about, 441 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: Like there might not be enough there for it to 442 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: really be, you know, a viable concept, but that's not 443 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: really important if you're just trying to get people to 444 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: buy in so you can make your money back. So 445 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: to me, things like web three point zero and metaverse. 446 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: They are vague, they are poorly defined because no one 447 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: has really made these things yet. There's been a lot 448 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: of talk around them, and some discussions of some points 449 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: of common threads among the different variations that are presented 450 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: to people, but there's no firm definition for either web 451 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: three or metaverse, which means you have ambiguity. And when 452 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: you have ambiguity, that's a recipe for confusion and potential deception. 453 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,959 Speaker 1: That's when you have to employ that critical thinking. You 454 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: have to ask questions, and if you get non answers, 455 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: like if it starts sounding like a political debate where 456 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: a candidate has asked a question and then they just 457 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: spend the next minute not answering that question and talking 458 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 1: around it, I say it's best to just get the 459 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: heck out of that conversation and keep your money safe. 460 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: Maybe it means you'll miss out on an opportunity, that 461 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: is a possibility, but I think more often than not, 462 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: it means that the only opportunity you missed out on 463 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: was saying goodbye to your money. So let's talk about 464 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: some more investment scams that involved the world of tech, 465 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: and one of these actually is not an investment scam. 466 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: It was a bookkeeping scam. And it was interesting because 467 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,959 Speaker 1: it was a tech company, a telecommunications company, that was 468 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: guilty of this. And in part this act was in 469 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: an effort to not just fool external partners like stakeholders, 470 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: shareholders that is, but also people within the company itself. 471 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: I'm talking about WorldCom. This was a wild story from 472 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: the early two thousands. I actually remember when this happened. 473 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: It wasn't that long after Enron, which was another huge 474 00:27:55,160 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: scandal when it came to finances. So, once upon a time, 475 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: the telephone system had companies that were in charge of 476 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: handling long distance phone calls. You remember when that was 477 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: a thing. That's something that a lot of us haven't 478 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: had to think about for a very long time these days. 479 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: But in the early two thousands, world Com was the 480 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: second largest long distance telephone company in the United States, 481 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: and it became headline news due to a massive accounting scandal, 482 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: and it was made to look like the company was 483 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: doing really well, when in fact it was already starting 484 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: to spiral out of control. But they didn't want the 485 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: outside world to know that they were spiraling. They being 486 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: certain leaders at world Com and so they came up 487 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: with a plan to make it appear as though world 488 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: Com was doing quite well when it wasn't, and even 489 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: folks within the company had no clue about what was 490 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: actually happening until an internal audit brought up some very 491 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: sticky questions. And when I say that people didn't know 492 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,719 Speaker 1: what was going on, that included people who were engaged 493 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: in the activities themselves of like covering stuff up because 494 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: they were being told by their bosses to do specific things. 495 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: They didn't understand why they were being told to do it, 496 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: So it was one of those you know, I was 497 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: only following orders kind of situations where you don't even 498 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: really understand why you're doing what you're doing and you 499 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: only find out later that it was part of a 500 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: fraudulent scheme. So, leading up to the early two thousands, 501 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: WorldCom was actually doing pretty darn well. It was leasing 502 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: phone lines from AT and T for really, you know, 503 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: cheap prices. Then it was turning around and taking these 504 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: least phone lines and offering them to customers for really 505 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: competitive rates. So you know, they're they're charging more than 506 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: they're paying because otherwise you go out of business, right, 507 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: But they're not charging a whole lot more, and so 508 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: they're trying to scale up and get lots of customers, 509 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: and it worked. They got a lot of cash, which 510 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: they then started to use to acquire other companies at 511 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: a pretty incredible pace. And when you buy up companies, 512 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: you accrue a lot of debt in the process. You 513 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: typically have to take out loans to do this, and 514 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: WorldCom was buying lots of companies. Now, keep in mind, 515 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: this is around the same time that we saw lots 516 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: of inflation in the tech sphere because the dot com 517 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: bubble was inflating. So WorldCom was spending a whole lot 518 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: of money, and arguably it was spending more money than 519 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: what the acquisitions were actually worth in some cases because 520 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: of that inflation of the dot com bubble. Now, WorldCom's 521 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,959 Speaker 1: finances initially looked pretty darn good, but then you had 522 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: the dot com bubble burst in two thousand and two 523 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: thousand and one, and very quickly it was clear that 524 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: WorldCom was over extended. And as a publicly traded company, 525 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: that means it would be in danger of having a 526 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: massive dip in its stock price, and that would be bad. 527 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: Stakeholders expect a stable and growing company, well on paper. 528 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: That was what seemed to be happening. WorldCom seemed to 529 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: be doing pretty darn well. But it turned out that 530 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: paper stuff was just paper. It was just creative accounting, 531 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: which is another way of saying lying. It was outright falsehoods. 532 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: So essentially, a group of leaders within WorldCom directed that 533 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: operating expenses be listed as something else on the books. 534 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: One term that kept popping up in the books was 535 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: a term called prepaid capacity. And you might say, what 536 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: was prepaid capacity? What did that mean? Well, it turns 537 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: out it didn't mean anything. It was essentially code for 538 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: hide to operating expenses here so that they look like 539 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: capital expenses. Okay, but what's the difference there. What's the 540 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: difference between operating expenses and capital expenses? This is something 541 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: that I think a lot of people just don't know, 542 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: including me, Like I have to look it up every 543 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: now and then because I'm not a business guy. But 544 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: it's actually pretty straightforward. So operating expenses are recurring, short 545 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: term costs. These are the costs of doing business. So 546 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: that can include stuff like paying rent for office space, 547 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: paying your utility bills, paying out salaries, that kind of thing. 548 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: So you deduct operating expenses from income whenever you're doing taxes, 549 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: so that you can say, like, all right, well we 550 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: made this much money, but it cost this much to 551 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: do business, so we have to look at the difference there. 552 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: You can't just tax me on the income. You have 553 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: to take into account how much it cost to run 554 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: the business. Capital expenses are different from operating expenses because 555 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: capital expenses are investments. So a capital expense represents something 556 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: that is intended to generate revenue for a business in 557 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: the long run. It may be a long term investment, 558 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: so it still costs money, but you don't count it 559 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: against income, So your income looks bigger if something is 560 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: a capital expense rather than an operating expense, because you 561 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: don't deduct the capital expense from the income. And capital 562 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: expense again represents an investment that's at least ideally going 563 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: to pay off sometime down the line. So essentially leaders 564 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: at WorldCom were directing their accountants to classify operating expenses 565 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: as capital expenses in an effort to make it look 566 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: like the company was actually performing much much better than 567 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: it really was, and they used the term prepaid capacity 568 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: to mask it. And what they were hoping was that 569 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: no one would bother to ask what exactly prepaid capacity was. 570 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: They were relying on prepaid capacity to be vague enough 571 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: and official sounding enough that people would just accept it 572 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: and move on and not ask any questions. Like, you 573 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: don't want to feel like you're the ignorant one by 574 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: saying what does this actually mean? It's kind of like 575 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: an emperor wears no clothes sort of thing. Right, You 576 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: don't want to be the one to admit you can't 577 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: see the meaning of something, because then it makes it 578 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: seem like you're not as intelligent as everybody else, Right, Like, 579 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: if you ask a question does this mean, well, that 580 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: shows that you didn't know. And if you didn't know, 581 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: then that's because you're not Smart's the that's the feeling. 582 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: It's not true. By the way, not knowing things is 583 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,280 Speaker 1: not a bad trait. I don't know lots of stuff, 584 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: but I ask questions so that I can learn. Learning 585 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: and curiosity that's important. And you know, curiosity is all 586 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: about trying to push back the barriers of our ignorance. 587 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: So WorldCom leaders were thinking, prepaid capacity, that's going to 588 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: be enough to keep people from asking too many questions. 589 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: But they did not count on the tenacity and integrity 590 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: of Cynthia Cooper. Cynthia Cooper headed up the internal audit 591 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: department within WorldCom, and she looked into some irregularities in 592 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: the book keeping, largely because of a previous scandal that 593 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: another whistleblower had brought to company attention before then subsequently 594 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 1: getting fired. So Cooper was thinking, I better look into 595 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: what's going on here. So Cooper and her team gradually 596 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: un covered fraud within WorldCom. She discovered that no one 597 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: actually had a definition for prepaid capacity, like it was 598 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: appearing on a lot of official records, but no one 599 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: could tell her what prepaid capacity actually meant. As far 600 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: as anyone could tell it didn't really mean anything, and 601 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: yet here it was showing up in records again and 602 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: again and representing billions of dollars in expenditures. Clearly, this 603 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: was a huge, huge deal and she was getting the 604 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 1: run around. Cooper and her team found enough evidence of 605 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: wrongdoing that the SEC got involved and investigated world Com. Ultimately, 606 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: the CEO of the company was held legally responsible for 607 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: the fraud. He would end up receiving a twenty five 608 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: year prison sentence. As part of that trial, he would 609 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,320 Speaker 1: eventually be released early due to declining health, and he 610 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: would pass away not too long after that happened. As 611 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: for WorldCom, it went into bankruptcy, it emerged under a 612 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: new name, and ultimately Verizon acquired what had been WorldCom. 613 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's an example of a company pulling a 614 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: scam on its own people as well as you know, 615 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: shareholders in the SEC and relying on jargon to discourage 616 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 1: anyone from asking tough questions. Cooper just wasn't putting up 617 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: with any of that. So again, critical thinking absolutely something 618 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: you should employ, just like Cooper did. You got to 619 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,320 Speaker 1: make sure that you're willing to ask the questions. Those questions. 620 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: You know, maybe you're not asking a human being, maybe 621 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 1: you're doing some research and just looking into things. Always 622 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: take into account where your information is coming from. I 623 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: recommend not using AI for that kind of stuff because 624 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: you don't know where it's drawing its information, and may 625 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: be drawing from a very biased source. It's very difficult 626 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,320 Speaker 1: to vet how reliable AI is on any given topic, 627 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: and in fact, you may get very different answers if 628 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: you ask the exact same question at different times or 629 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 1: on different machines. So definitely take into account the quality 630 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: of the source when you're asking your questions. But yeah, 631 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,879 Speaker 1: you know, use that curiosity, ask those questions. It may 632 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: turn out that the thing you are skeptical of is 633 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: one hundred percent legit and reliable, and that's great, Like, 634 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: there's no reason to be upset about that. But it's 635 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: always good to make sure before you start taking actions 636 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 1: that could end up, you know, creating a bit of 637 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: a loss for you, whether it's financial or otherwise. And 638 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: the same goes true for like all aspects of life, 639 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: as I said earlier, But really, when it comes to tech, 640 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: I think critical thinking is in short supply. That's why 641 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: we see things like misinformation campaigns go viral online. It's 642 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: why we see people get super hyped about new technologies 643 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: that have yet to actually prove their worth. I would 644 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: argue that the generative AI craze kind of falls into 645 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: that category that I think a lot of companies jumped 646 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: way too far into generative AI, way too early before 647 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 1: really getting an understanding of what it's capable of and 648 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,800 Speaker 1: what's limitations are and what applications are. This stuff happens 649 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 1: over and over again. It becomes kind of frustrating because 650 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,359 Speaker 1: you think shouldn't we have learned these lessons already. I'm 651 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,280 Speaker 1: sure my peers over and stuff you missed in history 652 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,320 Speaker 1: class have a lot to say about that, because obviously 653 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 1: they cover topics about history every single day, and I'm 654 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: sure they lament the many times where someone has done 655 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 1: something really stupid in the past, and we continue to 656 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: do that stupid thing in the present, so and probably 657 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: we'll continue into the future. But yeah, let's all remember 658 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,800 Speaker 1: critical thinking. It's a skill that you have to practice. 659 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: You can forget to practice it. Certainly I have done 660 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: that on several occasions. I have to remind myself to 661 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: practice it. Well. I'm not some expert that just automatically 662 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 1: applies critical thinking. So don't take this as me speaking 663 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,720 Speaker 1: from some high horse. My horse is low, maybe lower 664 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,800 Speaker 1: than your horses. Just me being concerned for my listeners 665 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 1: and making sure that they take that lesson to heart. 666 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: Critical thinking and compassion. The two will serve you well 667 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: if you employ them. That's it for this episode of 668 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 1: tech Stuff. We'll be back with more new episodes for 669 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,760 Speaker 1: pretty much all of December and into the beginning of January, 670 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: before we do the handoff with our new hosts, which 671 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: I'll talk about them more as we get closer to 672 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: the handoff. But I hope you're all doing well. I 673 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: hope to be able to share with you lots of 674 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: other cool and fun things. I've got some potential collaborations 675 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: coming up with friends of the show, so hopefully we'll 676 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,399 Speaker 1: be able to get those scheduled and recorded in short order, 677 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: because I look forward to going out with a maybe 678 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: not a bang, but at least maybe a moderate sized boom. 679 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,839 Speaker 1: And until next time, I'll talk to you again, really soon. 680 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:18,240 Speaker 1: Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 681 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,280 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 682 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.