Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording
Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters
Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives.
Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The
Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure
Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I
Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season.
Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the
Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality,
Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl
Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. This is the story of a man
Speaker 1: who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and
Speaker 1: that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary
Speaker 1: who built a fortune as a black man during Jim
Speaker 1: Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know
Speaker 1: about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I
Speaker 1: wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy
Speaker 1: Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been
Speaker 1: on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music.
Speaker 1: This summer, I'll hit the stage. Who Season two of
Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday,
Speaker 1: we explore the live music venues and culture of a
Speaker 1: new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues
Speaker 1: into the kind of venues you want to get to
Speaker 1: when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver for Seattle. Listen
Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. There's always some tension
Speaker 1: in every trial. This one, I would say, is an
Speaker 1: eight and a half or nine out of ten you
Speaker 1: shop I've seen, but all over space. The bullet ended
Speaker 1: up in the frontal lobe of the brain. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of steakecare for both sides. On the
Speaker 1: one side of the prosecution is overseeing the most expensive,
Speaker 1: most complex trial in the history of Ohio, and on
Speaker 1: the other hand, the defense is trying to save a
Speaker 1: guy's life. So no matter how you slice this, it
Speaker 1: is still life and death. This is the Piked and
Speaker 1: Massacre Season four, Episode four, Devil in the Details. M
Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie
Speaker 1: Lydecker and Jeff Shane. We've been following this case closely
Speaker 1: for almost five years, and it's surreal to see it
Speaker 1: all begin to unravel in a brick red nineteenth century
Speaker 1: courthouse on Second Street in Waverley, Ohio, a cozy town
Speaker 1: of four thousand on the Siota River. It's important to
Speaker 1: note that George Wagner the Fourth, who's currently on trial,
Speaker 1: has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he did not
Speaker 1: kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming,
Speaker 1: has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. George Wagner
Speaker 1: the Fourth says he has absolutely nothing to do with
Speaker 1: the eight murders. His brother Jake and mother Angela have
Speaker 1: pled guilty too, But the prosecution believes they can put
Speaker 1: George Wagner the Fourth at the scene of the killings,
Speaker 1: or at least prove he was part of the murder conspiracy. Soon,
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner and Angela Wagner will take the stand against
Speaker 1: their family. Here's reporter James Pilcher. It depends on how
Speaker 1: believable the jury finds Jake and Angela and is it
Speaker 1: possible that he works free, Absolutely as possible. You never
Speaker 1: can tell. Jake has previously testified that George Wagner did
Speaker 1: not kill anyone. What he and his mother, Angela will
Speaker 1: say on the stand is anyone's guess. Here's Stephanie and Jeff.
Speaker 1: Keep in mind, the prosecution believes that they can put
Speaker 1: George Wagner the Fourth at the scene of the killings,
Speaker 1: or at least they feel they can prove that he
Speaker 1: was part of the murder conspiracy. Prosecutor Angie Kinnepp, but
Speaker 1: you'll remember, agreed in December twenty twenty ones hearing that
Speaker 1: George Wagner the Fourth didn't kill anybody. However, unique to
Speaker 1: the state of Ohio, someone can be sentenced to death
Speaker 1: for an aggravated murder conviction and steff It's an interesting
Speaker 1: distinction that we really want to make clear because it
Speaker 1: means that you can be convicted even if all you
Speaker 1: did was helped plan or cover up the crimes. Jake
Speaker 1: and Angela have been proven to be liars in the past.
Speaker 1: Remember after the murders, they claimed their innocence and then
Speaker 1: years later, of course, changed their story. So why should
Speaker 1: we believe them now. Pike County Sheriff Tracy Evans chose
Speaker 1: not to be recorded while testifying, which is rare for
Speaker 1: an elected official. We do know Evans told jurors he
Speaker 1: was the one who determined Dana Rodin had been shot
Speaker 1: to death after removing a blanket and pillow that was
Speaker 1: covering her head. One key witness who agreed to be
Speaker 1: recorded was Miranda Cable, a registered nurse and paramedic who
Speaker 1: responded to the call at Frankie Rodin and Hannah Gilly's house.
Speaker 1: She's one of the first responders to testify about the
Speaker 1: crime scenes. Initially, Cable thought it was a domestic violence
Speaker 1: dispute where somebody was possibly killed. She was then directed
Speaker 1: to a second location, where she learned that were only
Speaker 1: to seize people on the scene. She then returned to
Speaker 1: Hannah Gilly and Frankie Roden's house, where the couple was
Speaker 1: found brutally slaughtered. Their six month old baby had been
Speaker 1: discovered alive covered in their blood. We were asked to
Speaker 1: go back to the first residence to transport a child.
Speaker 1: And do you know that child's name? Yes, it was Roden. Okay.
Speaker 1: To protect the children's identities, we will beat the use
Speaker 1: of any miners' names used in court. Do you know
Speaker 1: how old Roden was at that time? Six months? Okay?
Speaker 1: So five minutes later basically okay? And do you recall
Speaker 1: the condition that you found in. He had blood on
Speaker 1: his head, on his arms, and legs, in various parts
Speaker 1: of his body. He didn't appear to have any visible injuries,
Speaker 1: showing you what's been marked as states Exhibit Q two.
Speaker 1: And if there appears to be blood on his legs
Speaker 1: and feet and head and face, is that consistent with
Speaker 1: the condition you found him in? Yes? Okay? And can
Speaker 1: you tell us when you were examining him, did you
Speaker 1: personally take care not to clean him up? And he's
Speaker 1: staying at that time? Forensic investigator Joseph Scott Morgan the
Speaker 1: fact that Miranda that eunt had walked in and she
Speaker 1: was essentially handed over like this still living legacy, if
Speaker 1: you will, the stained in blood swaddled the child, I
Speaker 1: would imagine blood stained diaper, you know, and has to
Speaker 1: make sure and at that moment, you know, you can imagine.
Speaker 1: I know that I've been on scenes before that were
Speaker 1: very dramatic, but in that moment time, you're getting a
Speaker 1: sense that everybody's been wiped out and this little precious
Speaker 1: angel is still cooing and alive. The defense did not cross.
Speaker 1: Timothy Dickerson, former Pike County Police officer and director of
Speaker 1: Pike County Emergency Management, also arrived on the scene. In
Speaker 1: his court testimony, he detailed entering Dana Roden's house to
Speaker 1: find the bodies of hannahme and Chris Roden Jr. It
Speaker 1: was a grizzly spectacle, actually did my vehicle went into
Speaker 1: the home, I didn't turn right, went into a room
Speaker 1: and found a deceased mail he was in the bed.
Speaker 1: Went from there out through I guess would be the
Speaker 1: living room, the kitchen area, to another room where a
Speaker 1: deceased female was located, and then made a right and
Speaker 1: found a third deceased female. While Dickerson was in Hanname's room,
Speaker 1: he heard a sound and saw a baby's arms extend
Speaker 1: up from the bed in which her mother had been
Speaker 1: shot to death. What was the baby's condition? From what
Speaker 1: I remember, I just remember the diaper having blood on it.
Speaker 1: It was a traumatic scene, a large scene, and when
Speaker 1: I discovered that the baby was alive, I was very
Speaker 1: thankful for that. Did you have a fear that the
Speaker 1: baby may not have been alive? Yes. Dickerson later learned
Speaker 1: the baby was only four days old. In his words,
Speaker 1: she was very, very tiny. The jury on day four
Speaker 1: was shown numerable evidence photos of inside the home, bloody
Speaker 1: drag marks, blood spatter on the wall, and other forensic material.
Speaker 1: All of this might trigger a jury to respond in anger.
Speaker 1: The defense questioned whether all these gory exhibits were necessary.
Speaker 1: Here's James Pilcher. They dove into the third crime scene,
Speaker 1: which was the house that belonged to Dana Manly Rodin,
Speaker 1: and that's where she, her son Chris Junior, and her
Speaker 1: daughter Hannah rode And were all found shot to death
Speaker 1: in their beds. There was a newborn infant found alive
Speaker 1: next to Hannah. Her newborn daughter here again, Stephanie and Jeff.
Speaker 1: In court, they've been showing these autopsy photos of the
Speaker 1: victims and the crime scenes. As we've been hearing, very
Speaker 1: graphic and very disturbing. And due to the graphic nature
Speaker 1: of all these pictures and walk through, the defense has
Speaker 1: tried to move for a mistrine. Basically how it works
Speaker 1: in the courtroom is behind the witness, there's a flat
Speaker 1: screen television and when pictures are shown of the crime
Speaker 1: scenes in autopsies, etc. It goes on this big screen,
Speaker 1: and of course the jury is moved emotionally by the
Speaker 1: graphic nature of it, and the defense is saying, hey,
Speaker 1: that's not fair. It's not proven that George has done this,
Speaker 1: so humans in general are going to feel angry toward
Speaker 1: anybody who might be associated with these photographs. And on
Speaker 1: the flip of that, prosecutor Angie Kneppa is saying, look,
Speaker 1: this is what happened. To not show these photos is
Speaker 1: also a crime. You have to see the graphic details
Speaker 1: to really know the depth of these crimes. We're going
Speaker 1: to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh.
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called the
Speaker 1: girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper. But he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious.
Speaker 1: Bob lie about anything, but only takes the one time
Speaker 1: when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends
Speaker 1: know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay
Speaker 1: for his crime. He needed to be put to justice.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now,
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will
Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to
Speaker 1: the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney, hell is
Speaker 1: going on here? Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted
Speaker 1: a situation like this. I just thought it was just
Speaker 1: a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross.
Speaker 1: I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people.
Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you
Speaker 1: find yourself at that line, thou its ricin, R's ricin,
Speaker 1: and somebody needs to just for once give everybody the
Speaker 1: whole truth. This is evil and the only person who
Speaker 1: can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going
Speaker 1: to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers.
Speaker 1: If you are disloyal, thinks are going to happen to
Speaker 1: this week out disgrace to our cut. Evil Poy should
Speaker 1: be prosecuted when power corrupts, conscience is the last line
Speaker 1: of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and
Speaker 1: host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my
Speaker 1: award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always
Speaker 1: time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like
Speaker 1: me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're
Speaker 1: doing is evil. They will take things away and I
Speaker 1: can only hope that dal this is that like Pearl
Speaker 1: Harbor moment. Girl. You and I both know what it
Speaker 1: took to just get through the day in New York
Speaker 1: City and get home in one piece. And so the
Speaker 1: fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what
Speaker 1: I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting
Speaker 1: around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you
Speaker 1: might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is
Speaker 1: because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it.
Speaker 1: Listen to The Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure
Speaker 1: to subscribe and share how Rude Tanta Rito's is the
Speaker 1: Full House rewatch podcast you've been waiting for. Each week,
Speaker 1: get together with iconic characters Stephanie Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler,
Speaker 1: also known as actresses Jody Sweeten and Andrea Barber, as
Speaker 1: they team up to relive every episode of your favorite
Speaker 1: Friday night comfort show. We spent our entire childhoods on
Speaker 1: a little show called Full House, playing frenemies but becoming
Speaker 1: besties when for the cameras weren't rolling, and now thirty
Speaker 1: five years later, it's our biggest adventure, yet, get ready
Speaker 1: for Jody and Andrea to tell all as they take
Speaker 1: an in depth book back at life in and around
Speaker 1: the Tanner Home from the very very beginning. So if
Speaker 1: you think you know everything there is to know about
Speaker 1: Full House, how Rude, We'll be reliving every moment with you,
Speaker 1: and we'll be joined by our Full House family, including
Speaker 1: all your favorites from one hundred and ninety two episodes.
Speaker 1: We'll reveal the hidden treasures you may have missed within
Speaker 1: the show, and we'll take a trip down memory lane together.
Speaker 1: Listen to how Rude Tannerritos on the iHeartRadio app, cable podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Defense attorney Richard Nash
Speaker 1: drilled Dickerson on where Dana Roden's home was located. Was
Speaker 1: it in Pike, Adams or Sayota County. When Dickerson answered
Speaker 1: Pike at first, the two got into a heated exchange.
Speaker 1: This was a case of an old motion rearing its
Speaker 1: head again that the trial venue was in proper and
Speaker 1: search Warren's invalid because Dana's home was not technically in
Speaker 1: Pike County. James Pilcher, I think if anybody's familiar with
Speaker 1: old school basketball. This feels like the old four corners offense.
Speaker 1: By the defense, they are just playing stallball. They are
Speaker 1: trying to make this thing last as long as they
Speaker 1: can get as many jurors frustrated as they can with
Speaker 1: the prosecution. After Dickerson, prosecutors called Gary Michael Mosley, a
Speaker 1: former piked In officer who responded to the scene along
Speaker 1: with Dickerson's team. Mosley opted not to be shown on camera,
Speaker 1: but consented to an audio recording. He says he and
Speaker 1: his fellow deputies responded to a shots fired call at
Speaker 1: Dana Roden's house. They searched the property with extreme caution gunstrawn,
Speaker 1: fearing an active shooter was still on the premises. We
Speaker 1: had no idea. His audio is a little bit difficult
Speaker 1: to hear, so Jeff's going to read from a transcript.
Speaker 1: Guns were out. We had a plan. Once again, we
Speaker 1: had no idea. The house was designed the way it was,
Speaker 1: so our plan was just to go in and set
Speaker 1: up security base once we make entry and go from
Speaker 1: there and secure it. Bit by bit. We opened the
Speaker 1: door and the door swings inward to the right, so
Speaker 1: as I came in, I do what's called a piegraph cut.
Speaker 1: I'm an active shooter instructor, and I was taught that.
Speaker 1: So we come in. I spin from this wall to
Speaker 1: this wall, constantly looking to see if there's any threats
Speaker 1: in this room. Another key witness who took the stand
Speaker 1: was Sheriff's Lieutenant Adam Ball, who was the first officer
Speaker 1: on the murder scene. Ball had no idea what he
Speaker 1: was responding to when he pulled up to the property.
Speaker 1: He also opted not to be recorded, but Ohio Fox
Speaker 1: nineteen reporter Mike Sheell he's the gist of the lieutenant's testimony.
Speaker 1: The first witness opted out of being recorded. He has
Speaker 1: Pike County Sherifs Lieutenant Adam Ball. He testified that he
Speaker 1: was the first officer to enter the crime scene at
Speaker 1: forty seventy seven Union Hill Road where the bodies of
Speaker 1: Chris Roden Sor and his cousin Gary were found. Lieutenant Ball,
Speaker 1: who was a corporal in twenty sixteen, says there was
Speaker 1: so much blood when he walked into the front door
Speaker 1: that he had to climb over a treadmill and other
Speaker 1: furniture to avoid disturbing the crime scene and get to
Speaker 1: the back bedroom where Chris and Gary Roden's bodies were
Speaker 1: found lying together on the floor at the foot of
Speaker 1: a bed. Chris Senior's fate was particularly heinous. The arm
Speaker 1: he held up in self defense was blown off at
Speaker 1: the elbow. Here again, forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan. Chris
Speaker 1: Senior's arm was so just absolutely mangle that she stated
Speaker 1: that many of the major musselburts were visible. You can
Speaker 1: see practical bone, and she could not make heads or
Speaker 1: tails of at what point the bullet entered his arm
Speaker 1: and what point it exit. That's important for us because
Speaker 1: from a forensic standpoint, it's seen, because that goes to
Speaker 1: the dynamics of what's happening at that moment. It's not
Speaker 1: like you're shooting that a fixed paper target at a
Speaker 1: gun range. Okay, if Chriss rotated slightly to the left
Speaker 1: or to the right, that could give you an indication
Speaker 1: that he had an awareness and he was each shot
Speaker 1: as opposed to straight on where he's staring down the
Speaker 1: muzzle of this weapon. Here again, James Pilcher. He would
Speaker 1: have bled to death from the shot in the arm,
Speaker 1: the shot to his stomach. He might have survived for
Speaker 1: several hours without treatment, but it would have caused sepsis
Speaker 1: and other things, and it hit liver and all that.
Speaker 1: The shot to his chest hit his heart, he would
Speaker 1: have died within a couple of minutes. And then of
Speaker 1: course there are six shots to the head, and they
Speaker 1: said that four of the shots to the head were
Speaker 1: clearly he was already lying down and not moving, so
Speaker 1: these were just on top of everything else. They shot
Speaker 1: him while it was on the ground to bang bang
Speaker 1: bang bang. Lieutenant Ball was also the one to discovered
Speaker 1: the Roden's marijuana grow operation. He describes it as quote extensive,
Speaker 1: taking up a garage and outbuilding an a semi trailer.
Speaker 1: He also discovered that the rodent security cameras had been dismantled.
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Ball actually one outside after clearing the house because
Speaker 1: they didn't know if anybody was still around. They didn't
Speaker 1: know if somebody was still on the property killing anybody,
Speaker 1: or armed or whatever. So after clearing the trailer were
Speaker 1: Chris and Gary Layer. They went out and cleared the
Speaker 1: property and at that point that's when they found the
Speaker 1: open marijuana grow operation. And they went upstairs and that's
Speaker 1: when they found, Hey, there's cameras and wires and no DVR.
Speaker 1: The defense exploited the grow operation to suggest that the
Speaker 1: murders could have been cartel related, a theory police have
Speaker 1: long dismissed. At one time, there was a speculation that
Speaker 1: a Mexican drug cartel may have been involved in the murders,
Speaker 1: but then Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine said it was
Speaker 1: not a factor. The motive was a custody dispute over
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodent's two year old daughter. It's
Speaker 1: obviously too early to surmise how this trial is skewing,
Speaker 1: but one glaring omission from the defense is this George Wagner,
Speaker 1: the fourth attorneys have yet to offer up a clear,
Speaker 1: solid alibi for where George was on the night of
Speaker 1: the killings. Again, James Pelcher, they've been kind of vague
Speaker 1: on this point. They have not come out and said
Speaker 1: and actually this was they were about to say something
Speaker 1: along those lines, and they're opening the defenses opening, and
Speaker 1: there was an immediate objection and they went back in
Speaker 1: the chambers. Five minutes into the defenses opening, you get
Speaker 1: an objection from the prosecution. It was really really strange,
Speaker 1: and they kind of intimated that George stayed home and
Speaker 1: was asleep in his bed and he was going out,
Speaker 1: and he found it really weird that Jake was up
Speaker 1: before him working. He wanted nothing to do with his
Speaker 1: family and he wanted he's trying to stay away from him.
Speaker 1: But they never came out and said he has an alibi.
Speaker 1: That never came out and said this is where he was.
Speaker 1: And that's going to be the difficult thing for the defense,
Speaker 1: especially when you start seeing their funds were commingled. They
Speaker 1: even have him on recording telling his mother, I don't
Speaker 1: want to leave. We're all here together, this place as
Speaker 1: a moneymaker. This is after they moved to Alaska. I
Speaker 1: know him jumping out of myself. But there have been
Speaker 1: evidence produced since the first stages of the trial that
Speaker 1: have indicated that George was still part of the family.
Speaker 1: He didn't want to leave, like the defense has indicated
Speaker 1: in their opening statements, and the prosecution is specifically tailoring
Speaker 1: their evidence towards what the defense set in the opening
Speaker 1: statement that George wanted to move out, George wanted nothing
Speaker 1: to do with the family, and they're introducing evidence piece
Speaker 1: by piece that that was not the case. Joseph Scott
Speaker 1: Morgan weighs in on the challenges the prosecution phases to
Speaker 1: place George at the scene of the crime. I think
Speaker 1: that there are a lot of circumstantial issues regarding the planning.
Speaker 1: I think that he had an awareness, obviously, and for
Speaker 1: all I know, he was very well in the vehicle,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you know, who am I to say,
Speaker 1: but to physically put him in, you know, in the
Speaker 1: trailer with for instance, with Chris and Gary that night
Speaker 1: when that hole was blown through the door, or you know,
Speaker 1: when that wood was splintered and sent into Chris seeing
Speaker 1: your's face, you know, you really think you know, was
Speaker 1: he there? You know it was he physically there while
Speaker 1: it was happening, or when the bodies are being drug
Speaker 1: from one room to the other, you know, which is
Speaker 1: really kind of an exclamation point in all of this,
Speaker 1: because it goes to the kind of the ghastliness of
Speaker 1: it all. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff. At this stage,
Speaker 1: it seems that the main question is was George Wagner
Speaker 1: there And if he wasn't was he a part of
Speaker 1: the planning? And if he was a part of the planning,
Speaker 1: is he equally culpable? It seems like what the defense
Speaker 1: will try to do is hammer away at this story
Speaker 1: and argue that yes, he came from a bad family,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't make him a bad guy. So, as
Speaker 1: we learned last season, the opinion of George Wagner is
Speaker 1: a little mixed. Some people were shocked that he was
Speaker 1: involved with the murders and had a very hard time
Speaker 1: wrapping their around it, and other people were not surprised
Speaker 1: and thought he was very much a part of the
Speaker 1: Wagner clan. And so I think it's just going to
Speaker 1: be fascinating to watch all of this play out in
Speaker 1: the courtroom. The prosecution has its vulnerabilities. Also among the
Speaker 1: media pool, there is definitely a sense of questioning about
Speaker 1: the prosecution strategy and when are they all going to
Speaker 1: tie this together? When are they going to point to
Speaker 1: George being part of this conspiracy because none of the
Speaker 1: physical evidence presented so far. They're starting to get into
Speaker 1: some of the other evidence on the wire taps and
Speaker 1: so forth, but they even stipulated none of the physical
Speaker 1: evidence they found that the crime scenes had any of
Speaker 1: the Wagoners to any of these crime scenes. Joseph Morgan
Speaker 1: theorizes about how the lack of DNA evidence will be
Speaker 1: a possible blockade improving. George the Fourth was there the
Speaker 1: night of the slings. It's tough nowadays. You know, maybe
Speaker 1: ten years ago it wouldn't have been tough. But we're
Speaker 1: in a brave new world. People have an expectation that, oh,
Speaker 1: they're gonna get here and talk about DNA. I've seen
Speaker 1: that on television. And you get up there and it's
Speaker 1: a big fail, you know, as far as the jury
Speaker 1: is concerned. But just because you have an absence of
Speaker 1: something doesn't mean that something hasn't occurred. It's just that
Speaker 1: that's what many people expect. You know, that we can
Speaker 1: conjure up DNA and you can't. It's either there it's not,
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that that's significant, and it's
Speaker 1: also significant relative to fingerprints as well. Let's stop here
Speaker 1: for another break. Oh I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting
Speaker 1: a podcast called The girl Friends. Back in the nineteen
Speaker 1: nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the
Speaker 1: most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages,
Speaker 1: he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He
Speaker 1: was perfect on paper, but he wasn't He really wasn't.
Speaker 1: He shouted to the point she went unconscious. Bob could
Speaker 1: lie about anything, but only takes the one time when
Speaker 1: somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know
Speaker 1: how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for
Speaker 1: his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll
Speaker 1: be honest with you. If I saw him right now,
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will
Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to
Speaker 1: the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney. Hell is
Speaker 1: going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted
Speaker 1: a situation like this. I just thought it was just
Speaker 1: a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross.
Speaker 1: I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people.
Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you
Speaker 1: find yourself at that line. Thoughts. Ricin, arn't ricin, And
Speaker 1: somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth,
Speaker 1: like this is evil and the only person who can
Speaker 1: sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to
Speaker 1: sit silently buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers.
Speaker 1: If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to
Speaker 1: this week out disgrace through our gun. Pevil play should
Speaker 1: be prosecute when power corrupts, conscience is the last line
Speaker 1: of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and
Speaker 1: host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my
Speaker 1: award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always
Speaker 1: time to touch incredible guests about important things people like
Speaker 1: me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're
Speaker 1: doing is evil. They will take things away, and I
Speaker 1: can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment. Girl,
Speaker 1: You and I both know what it took to just
Speaker 1: get through the day in New York City and get
Speaker 1: home in one piece. And so the fact that we're
Speaker 1: here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know,
Speaker 1: that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills.
Speaker 1: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said,
Speaker 1: that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking
Speaker 1: us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne
Speaker 1: Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Bad Manners. This is the podcast
Speaker 1: that takes you inside Britain's stately homes and tells all
Speaker 1: the tales the guy books don't. My name is Tom
Speaker 1: Horton and I'll be your host. Britain is a riddle
Speaker 1: with the big hou from crumbling castles, massive mansions and
Speaker 1: stately piles bigger than bucking and Palace. As a comedian,
Speaker 1: I'm not really bothered about the facts and figures. I
Speaker 1: just want the juicy stuff. So I'm on a mission
Speaker 1: to find out the frightening, filthy and downright jaw dropping
Speaker 1: stories of these stately homes and the people in them.
Speaker 1: This podcast ventures deep inside some of Britain's most incredible
Speaker 1: and outrageous buildings to spill the tea on the scandalous, scary,
Speaker 1: shocking and hilarious tales. So if you want to get
Speaker 1: historically horrid, royally raucus and down to dirty look no
Speaker 1: fur listen to Bad Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. With eight bodies
Speaker 1: and four suspects, this is a case with a dizzying
Speaker 1: number of moving pieces, and there's a real risk of
Speaker 1: the jury being confused, allowing reasonable doubt to seep in.
Speaker 1: Here's law and crimes legal analyst Terry Austin. The more complicated,
Speaker 1: the better for the defense. The most complicating part of
Speaker 1: this case is keeping track of the names and the relationships.
Speaker 1: I mean, we know already that there are eight victims
Speaker 1: for defendants for different crime scenes, and all of those
Speaker 1: individuals have people who were involved in terms of finding
Speaker 1: those individuals who were killed, and so the biggest issue
Speaker 1: for the prosecution is going to keep everything straight. You
Speaker 1: want that jury to follow your story. In the case
Speaker 1: of prosecution trying to pursue the claims against George, it's
Speaker 1: going to be difficult to establish that motive. They have
Speaker 1: evidence against, you know, obviously Jake against Angela, but I
Speaker 1: think it might be difficult and all you have to do,
Speaker 1: as you know, is have one juror who has reasonable
Speaker 1: doubt and doesn't want to convict and where you happen.
Speaker 1: So we'll see what happens. But I think there could
Speaker 1: be some doubt in the case against George here. And remember,
Speaker 1: this is a jury of his peers that's rooted within
Speaker 1: our family documents, and his peers consist of those that
Speaker 1: live in that small slice of the world up there
Speaker 1: that they see each other day to day, you know,
Speaker 1: Walmarton at cafe and everywhere else that they go up there,
Speaker 1: they see one another and they know one They raise
Speaker 1: their hands one another, they're driving down the road and wave,
Speaker 1: you know, and that sort of thing. It's that kind
Speaker 1: of community. And I previously said and I'll continue to
Speaker 1: say that the level of brutality that is involved in
Speaker 1: the pike and massacre, in the murders of the road
Speaker 1: and family, again, it is something that is going to
Speaker 1: live in infamy in this corner of the world. It's
Speaker 1: the type of thing that one hundred years from now,
Speaker 1: kids will sit around campfires and they will tell horror
Speaker 1: stories about this is what we're with in that world.
Speaker 1: And so it's on the shoulders of this jury to
Speaker 1: weigh the evidence and decide. You know, is somebody going
Speaker 1: to be made to pay. But they've got a hard decision,
Speaker 1: I think, and it's still coming and they're not there yet,
Speaker 1: but they will have a hard decision to make it
Speaker 1: by George. So look at it this way. TV has
Speaker 1: sixty minutes, maybe two hours. If you're a movie to
Speaker 1: tell a story about a trial, you can only fit
Speaker 1: so much evidence. You can only fit so much dramatic
Speaker 1: moments into that. But when you're dealing with the actual
Speaker 1: rule of law and how you can introduce evidence and
Speaker 1: what kind of questions you can ask and all of
Speaker 1: those things, all that stuff you see on TV is
Speaker 1: out the door. So what we're seeing is the very
Speaker 1: slow incremental process of justice and the law. In this case,
Speaker 1: Lady and Gentleman's a jury. We're going to a journance
Speaker 1: for the day, could be going home, could be taking
Speaker 1: your badges with you and leaving your notepads on your chairs.
Speaker 1: As Day four wrapped up in the face of all
Speaker 1: the brutal evidence, presiding Judge Randy Deering took a moment
Speaker 1: to remind the jury of their weighty responsibilities. And you
Speaker 1: know what else, I'm going to say, You're not to
Speaker 1: discuss this case among yourselves or with anyone else. You're
Speaker 1: not to permit this case if we discussed with you
Speaker 1: or in your presence. You're not to form or express
Speaker 1: an opinion concerning this case until it is finally submitted
Speaker 1: to you for deliberation and verdict. You not read, listen to,
Speaker 1: or view any reports or accounts of this case from
Speaker 1: any source whatsoever. Even though many witnesses are opting out
Speaker 1: of being recorded, the Katie Studios team and experts are there.
Speaker 1: In the coming weeks, the pieces of a devastating and
Speaker 1: complicated puzzle will finally come together once and for all.
Speaker 1: I would say they were trying to shock the jury
Speaker 1: at this point with the violence of it, for sure,
Speaker 1: because they showed the pictures of people dead in their
Speaker 1: beds or on the floor or pulled into beds time
Speaker 1: and time and time again. I can't imagine. Can you
Speaker 1: even put it into words? What it's like more slightmare?
Speaker 1: Living in hail really well, I was trying to get
Speaker 1: home my father, and I want able to Greechi to
Speaker 1: let him know that his brother and his niece and
Speaker 1: nephews and stuff has been killed, Luke said their dad,
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner once threatened violence against his dad and his uncle,
Speaker 1: Chris Rodin Senior. Luke said that while his dad and
Speaker 1: uncle were doing a good deed for Billy Wagner, Billy
Speaker 1: told Luke that a dust up between the three of
Speaker 1: them would not end well. Markma worst this case. It
Speaker 1: is about to blow wide open. More on that next time.
Speaker 1: For more information on the case and real elevant photos,
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked
Speaker 1: and Masaker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves,
Speaker 1: Alan Wheaterer, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and
Speaker 1: sound designed by Jeff Ti Music by Jared Aston. The
Speaker 1: Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.