WEBVTT - Devil in the Details 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.080 you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:07.440 Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.479 get your podcasts. This is the story of a man 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:15.000 who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.319 that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.399 who built a fortune as a black man during Jim 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.800 Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.920 about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:33.000 wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.720 Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:41.120 get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.880 on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music. 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.360 This summer, I'll hit the stage. Who Season two of 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:51.000 Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.680 we explore the live music venues and culture of a 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:57.000 new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:58.520 into the kind of venues you want to get to 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:03.200 when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver for Seattle. Listen 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.560 to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:15.120 or wherever you get your podcasts. There's always some tension 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.200 in every trial. This one, I would say, is an 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:21.440 eight and a half or nine out of ten you 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:26.359 shop I've seen, but all over space. The bullet ended 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.720 up in the frontal lobe of the brain. I mean, 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.480 there's a lot of steakecare for both sides. On the 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:36.119 one side of the prosecution is overseeing the most expensive, 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:39.280 most complex trial in the history of Ohio, and on 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.519 the other hand, the defense is trying to save a 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:46.040 guy's life. So no matter how you slice this, it 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:54.760 is still life and death. This is the Piked and 0:02:54.880 --> 0:03:02.480 Massacre Season four, Episode four, Devil in the Details. M 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:06.200 Courtney Armstrong a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:10.000 Lydecker and Jeff Shane. We've been following this case closely 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.280 for almost five years, and it's surreal to see it 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.240 all begin to unravel in a brick red nineteenth century 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:19.120 courthouse on Second Street in Waverley, Ohio, a cozy town 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:22.880 of four thousand on the Siota River. It's important to 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.840 note that George Wagner the Fourth, who's currently on trial, 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.840 has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he did not 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:34.240 kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:39.720 has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. George Wagner 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:41.920 the Fourth says he has absolutely nothing to do with 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.040 the eight murders. His brother Jake and mother Angela have 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.880 pled guilty too, But the prosecution believes they can put 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.280 George Wagner the Fourth at the scene of the killings, 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:56.040 or at least prove he was part of the murder conspiracy. Soon, 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:59.920 Jake Wagner and Angela Wagner will take the stand against 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:05.520 their family. Here's reporter James Pilcher. It depends on how 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:12.240 believable the jury finds Jake and Angela and is it 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:15.480 possible that he works free, Absolutely as possible. You never 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:20.560 can tell. Jake has previously testified that George Wagner did 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.640 not kill anyone. What he and his mother, Angela will 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:28.960 say on the stand is anyone's guess. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.919 Keep in mind, the prosecution believes that they can put 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.800 George Wagner the Fourth at the scene of the killings, 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:39.200 or at least they feel they can prove that he 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.960 was part of the murder conspiracy. Prosecutor Angie Kinnepp, but 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:47.719 you'll remember, agreed in December twenty twenty ones hearing that 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:52.760 George Wagner the Fourth didn't kill anybody. However, unique to 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:56.000 the state of Ohio, someone can be sentenced to death 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.719 for an aggravated murder conviction and steff It's an interesting 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.400 distinction that we really want to make clear because it 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.719 means that you can be convicted even if all you 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.960 did was helped plan or cover up the crimes. Jake 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.360 and Angela have been proven to be liars in the past. 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:16.200 Remember after the murders, they claimed their innocence and then 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.680 years later, of course, changed their story. So why should 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:25.839 we believe them now. Pike County Sheriff Tracy Evans chose 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.719 not to be recorded while testifying, which is rare for 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.159 an elected official. We do know Evans told jurors he 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.720 was the one who determined Dana Rodin had been shot 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.320 to death after removing a blanket and pillow that was 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.279 covering her head. One key witness who agreed to be 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:44.240 recorded was Miranda Cable, a registered nurse and paramedic who 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.360 responded to the call at Frankie Rodin and Hannah Gilly's house. 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.680 She's one of the first responders to testify about the 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:55.640 crime scenes. Initially, Cable thought it was a domestic violence 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.359 dispute where somebody was possibly killed. She was then directed 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.880 to a second location, where she learned that were only 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.039 to seize people on the scene. She then returned to 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:07.839 Hannah Gilly and Frankie Roden's house, where the couple was 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:11.360 found brutally slaughtered. Their six month old baby had been 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.440 discovered alive covered in their blood. We were asked to 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:19.760 go back to the first residence to transport a child. 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:25.880 And do you know that child's name? Yes, it was Roden. Okay. 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.440 To protect the children's identities, we will beat the use 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:33.520 of any miners' names used in court. Do you know 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:38.679 how old Roden was at that time? Six months? Okay? 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:42.880 So five minutes later basically okay? And do you recall 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:47.560 the condition that you found in. He had blood on 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:51.120 his head, on his arms, and legs, in various parts 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.919 of his body. He didn't appear to have any visible injuries, 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.280 showing you what's been marked as states Exhibit Q two. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:01.960 And if there appears to be blood on his legs 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.159 and feet and head and face, is that consistent with 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.160 the condition you found him in? Yes? Okay? And can 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:11.240 you tell us when you were examining him, did you 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.760 personally take care not to clean him up? And he's 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:25.800 staying at that time? Forensic investigator Joseph Scott Morgan the 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:30.720 fact that Miranda that eunt had walked in and she 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:36.600 was essentially handed over like this still living legacy, if 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:42.160 you will, the stained in blood swaddled the child, I 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.560 would imagine blood stained diaper, you know, and has to 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:47.840 make sure and at that moment, you know, you can imagine. 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.000 I know that I've been on scenes before that were 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:53.760 very dramatic, but in that moment time, you're getting a 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.280 sense that everybody's been wiped out and this little precious 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:04.280 angel is still cooing and alive. The defense did not cross. 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:09.200 Timothy Dickerson, former Pike County Police officer and director of 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:13.600 Pike County Emergency Management, also arrived on the scene. In 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.280 his court testimony, he detailed entering Dana Roden's house to 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:21.760 find the bodies of hannahme and Chris Roden Jr. It 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:26.280 was a grizzly spectacle, actually did my vehicle went into 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:31.000 the home, I didn't turn right, went into a room 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.360 and found a deceased mail he was in the bed. 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:39.800 Went from there out through I guess would be the 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:43.320 living room, the kitchen area, to another room where a 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:48.120 deceased female was located, and then made a right and 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:53.680 found a third deceased female. While Dickerson was in Hanname's room, 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.280 he heard a sound and saw a baby's arms extend 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.120 up from the bed in which her mother had been 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:03.040 shot to death. What was the baby's condition? From what 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.240 I remember, I just remember the diaper having blood on it. 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:11.800 It was a traumatic scene, a large scene, and when 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.240 I discovered that the baby was alive, I was very 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.760 thankful for that. Did you have a fear that the 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:25.120 baby may not have been alive? Yes. Dickerson later learned 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.559 the baby was only four days old. In his words, 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.400 she was very, very tiny. The jury on day four 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.400 was shown numerable evidence photos of inside the home, bloody 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.240 drag marks, blood spatter on the wall, and other forensic material. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.280 All of this might trigger a jury to respond in anger. 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.239 The defense questioned whether all these gory exhibits were necessary. 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:55.320 Here's James Pilcher. They dove into the third crime scene, 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.240 which was the house that belonged to Dana Manly Rodin, 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.120 and that's where she, her son Chris Junior, and her 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.640 daughter Hannah rode And were all found shot to death 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.839 in their beds. There was a newborn infant found alive 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:16.000 next to Hannah. Her newborn daughter here again, Stephanie and Jeff. 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.680 In court, they've been showing these autopsy photos of the 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.120 victims and the crime scenes. As we've been hearing, very 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.840 graphic and very disturbing. And due to the graphic nature 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.800 of all these pictures and walk through, the defense has 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:33.679 tried to move for a mistrine. Basically how it works 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:37.360 in the courtroom is behind the witness, there's a flat 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:43.320 screen television and when pictures are shown of the crime 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:47.120 scenes in autopsies, etc. It goes on this big screen, 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:51.920 and of course the jury is moved emotionally by the 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:55.240 graphic nature of it, and the defense is saying, hey, 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:59.800 that's not fair. It's not proven that George has done this, 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:04.160 so humans in general are going to feel angry toward 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:08.440 anybody who might be associated with these photographs. And on 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:12.600 the flip of that, prosecutor Angie Kneppa is saying, look, 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:16.640 this is what happened. To not show these photos is 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.880 also a crime. You have to see the graphic details 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:25.920 to really know the depth of these crimes. We're going 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:31.600 to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.680 I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called the 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.160 girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.880 a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:49.080 He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:53.680 he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper. But he wasn't. 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:59.000 He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious. 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:03.720 Bob lie about anything, but only takes the one time 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:08.120 when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:10.720 know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.800 for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:15.600 I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.920 I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.839 would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.800 always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:28.480 the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:33.120 you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney, hell is 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:37.080 going on here? Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.040 a situation like this. I just thought it was just 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.400 a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:46.080 I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.360 You may never have to face that decision when you 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:52.800 find yourself at that line, thou its ricin, R's ricin, 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.200 and somebody needs to just for once give everybody the 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:01.200 whole truth. This is evil and the only person who 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.560 can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:10.320 to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:12.760 If you are disloyal, thinks are going to happen to 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.800 this week out disgrace to our cut. Evil Poy should 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:21.600 be prosecuted when power corrupts, conscience is the last line 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.920 of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:30.360 the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:39.880 My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.880 host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:47.520 award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.800 time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.240 me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.720 the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.439 doing is evil. They will take things away and I 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.120 can only hope that dal this is that like Pearl 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.599 Harbor moment. Girl. You and I both know what it 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.840 took to just get through the day in New York 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.960 City and get home in one piece. And so the 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.400 fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:15.920 I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.560 around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.520 might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.720 because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:28.000 Listen to The Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:32.600 Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:38.920 to subscribe and share how Rude Tanta Rito's is the 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.040 Full House rewatch podcast you've been waiting for. Each week, 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.560 get together with iconic characters Stephanie Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler, 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.640 also known as actresses Jody Sweeten and Andrea Barber, as 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.600 they team up to relive every episode of your favorite 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:56.040 Friday night comfort show. We spent our entire childhoods on 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.240 a little show called Full House, playing frenemies but becoming 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.200 besties when for the cameras weren't rolling, and now thirty 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.920 five years later, it's our biggest adventure, yet, get ready 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.360 for Jody and Andrea to tell all as they take 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:09.640 an in depth book back at life in and around 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.000 the Tanner Home from the very very beginning. So if 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.080 you think you know everything there is to know about 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:19.160 Full House, how Rude, We'll be reliving every moment with you, 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:21.800 and we'll be joined by our Full House family, including 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.400 all your favorites from one hundred and ninety two episodes. 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:26.920 We'll reveal the hidden treasures you may have missed within 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.200 the show, and we'll take a trip down memory lane together. 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:33.120 Listen to how Rude Tannerritos on the iHeartRadio app, cable podcasts, 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:43.600 or wherever you get your podcasts. Defense attorney Richard Nash 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:47.560 drilled Dickerson on where Dana Roden's home was located. Was 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:52.280 it in Pike, Adams or Sayota County. When Dickerson answered 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.400 Pike at first, the two got into a heated exchange. 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.440 This was a case of an old motion rearing its 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.080 head again that the trial venue was in proper and 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.880 search Warren's invalid because Dana's home was not technically in 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:12.560 Pike County. James Pilcher, I think if anybody's familiar with 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.480 old school basketball. This feels like the old four corners offense. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:22.200 By the defense, they are just playing stallball. They are 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.720 trying to make this thing last as long as they 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.040 can get as many jurors frustrated as they can with 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:34.560 the prosecution. After Dickerson, prosecutors called Gary Michael Mosley, a 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.560 former piked In officer who responded to the scene along 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:41.360 with Dickerson's team. Mosley opted not to be shown on camera, 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.840 but consented to an audio recording. He says he and 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.960 his fellow deputies responded to a shots fired call at 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:54.320 Dana Roden's house. They searched the property with extreme caution gunstrawn, 0:16:54.640 --> 0:17:00.760 fearing an active shooter was still on the premises. We 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:07.320 had no idea. His audio is a little bit difficult 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.000 to hear, so Jeff's going to read from a transcript. 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.600 Guns were out. We had a plan. Once again, we 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:16.159 had no idea. The house was designed the way it was, 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:18.960 so our plan was just to go in and set 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.000 up security base once we make entry and go from 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.840 there and secure it. Bit by bit. We opened the 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.520 door and the door swings inward to the right, so 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.200 as I came in, I do what's called a piegraph cut. 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:32.639 I'm an active shooter instructor, and I was taught that. 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.040 So we come in. I spin from this wall to 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.879 this wall, constantly looking to see if there's any threats 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:45.200 in this room. Another key witness who took the stand 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.480 was Sheriff's Lieutenant Adam Ball, who was the first officer 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.719 on the murder scene. Ball had no idea what he 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.000 was responding to when he pulled up to the property. 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.160 He also opted not to be recorded, but Ohio Fox 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:02.080 nineteen reporter Mike Sheell he's the gist of the lieutenant's testimony. 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:06.439 The first witness opted out of being recorded. He has 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.760 Pike County Sherifs Lieutenant Adam Ball. He testified that he 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:11.840 was the first officer to enter the crime scene at 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.680 forty seventy seven Union Hill Road where the bodies of 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.800 Chris Roden Sor and his cousin Gary were found. Lieutenant Ball, 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.480 who was a corporal in twenty sixteen, says there was 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.560 so much blood when he walked into the front door 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.320 that he had to climb over a treadmill and other 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.639 furniture to avoid disturbing the crime scene and get to 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.120 the back bedroom where Chris and Gary Roden's bodies were 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:34.560 found lying together on the floor at the foot of 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:42.440 a bed. Chris Senior's fate was particularly heinous. The arm 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.479 he held up in self defense was blown off at 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:50.160 the elbow. Here again, forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan. Chris 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:56.280 Senior's arm was so just absolutely mangle that she stated 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.719 that many of the major musselburts were visible. You can 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.080 see practical bone, and she could not make heads or 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:08.200 tails of at what point the bullet entered his arm 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.760 and what point it exit. That's important for us because 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.439 from a forensic standpoint, it's seen, because that goes to 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.000 the dynamics of what's happening at that moment. It's not 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:21.119 like you're shooting that a fixed paper target at a 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:26.080 gun range. Okay, if Chriss rotated slightly to the left 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:29.240 or to the right, that could give you an indication 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.520 that he had an awareness and he was each shot 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:35.600 as opposed to straight on where he's staring down the 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:41.880 muzzle of this weapon. Here again, James Pilcher. He would 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:44.200 have bled to death from the shot in the arm, 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.960 the shot to his stomach. He might have survived for 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.440 several hours without treatment, but it would have caused sepsis 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:52.560 and other things, and it hit liver and all that. 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:55.960 The shot to his chest hit his heart, he would 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.879 have died within a couple of minutes. And then of 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:03.320 course there are six shots to the head, and they 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.320 said that four of the shots to the head were 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:10.040 clearly he was already lying down and not moving, so 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:14.400 these were just on top of everything else. They shot 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.160 him while it was on the ground to bang bang 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:24.080 bang bang. Lieutenant Ball was also the one to discovered 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:28.880 the Roden's marijuana grow operation. He describes it as quote extensive, 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.600 taking up a garage and outbuilding an a semi trailer. 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.879 He also discovered that the rodent security cameras had been dismantled. 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:44.080 Lieutenant Ball actually one outside after clearing the house because 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:47.000 they didn't know if anybody was still around. They didn't 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:50.439 know if somebody was still on the property killing anybody, 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:56.600 or armed or whatever. So after clearing the trailer were 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.000 Chris and Gary Layer. They went out and cleared the 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.040 property and at that point that's when they found the 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:07.280 open marijuana grow operation. And they went upstairs and that's 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:12.240 when they found, Hey, there's cameras and wires and no DVR. 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:17.560 The defense exploited the grow operation to suggest that the 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.919 murders could have been cartel related, a theory police have 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.440 long dismissed. At one time, there was a speculation that 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.400 a Mexican drug cartel may have been involved in the murders, 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.320 but then Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine said it was 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.400 not a factor. The motive was a custody dispute over 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.960 Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodent's two year old daughter. It's 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.840 obviously too early to surmise how this trial is skewing, 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:46.440 but one glaring omission from the defense is this George Wagner, 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.080 the fourth attorneys have yet to offer up a clear, 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.000 solid alibi for where George was on the night of 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:59.280 the killings. Again, James Pelcher, they've been kind of vague 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.400 on this point. They have not come out and said 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:05.840 and actually this was they were about to say something 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:09.639 along those lines, and they're opening the defenses opening, and 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:12.200 there was an immediate objection and they went back in 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:15.320 the chambers. Five minutes into the defenses opening, you get 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:19.520 an objection from the prosecution. It was really really strange, 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:23.080 and they kind of intimated that George stayed home and 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:25.840 was asleep in his bed and he was going out, 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:29.119 and he found it really weird that Jake was up 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:31.639 before him working. He wanted nothing to do with his 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:34.600 family and he wanted he's trying to stay away from him. 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:37.680 But they never came out and said he has an alibi. 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:39.520 That never came out and said this is where he was. 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:42.760 And that's going to be the difficult thing for the defense, 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:47.360 especially when you start seeing their funds were commingled. They 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:50.960 even have him on recording telling his mother, I don't 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:54.119 want to leave. We're all here together, this place as 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:56.679 a moneymaker. This is after they moved to Alaska. I 0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:59.240 know him jumping out of myself. But there have been 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:03.240 evidence produced since the first stages of the trial that 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:06.000 have indicated that George was still part of the family. 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:09.240 He didn't want to leave, like the defense has indicated 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:14.520 in their opening statements, and the prosecution is specifically tailoring 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:19.520 their evidence towards what the defense set in the opening 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:22.680 statement that George wanted to move out, George wanted nothing 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:26.120 to do with the family, and they're introducing evidence piece 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:31.080 by piece that that was not the case. Joseph Scott 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:34.040 Morgan weighs in on the challenges the prosecution phases to 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:36.800 place George at the scene of the crime. I think 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:41.040 that there are a lot of circumstantial issues regarding the planning. 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:44.679 I think that he had an awareness, obviously, and for 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:47.000 all I know, he was very well in the vehicle, 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:49.480 you know, I mean, you know, who am I to say, 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:54.280 but to physically put him in, you know, in the 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:58.680 trailer with for instance, with Chris and Gary that night 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:01.560 when that hole was blown through the door, or you know, 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:05.200 when that wood was splintered and sent into Chris seeing 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:08.680 your's face, you know, you really think you know, was 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:11.440 he there? You know it was he physically there while 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:13.639 it was happening, or when the bodies are being drug 0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:15.840 from one room to the other, you know, which is 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:19.080 really kind of an exclamation point in all of this, 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:21.639 because it goes to the kind of the ghastliness of 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:27.840 it all. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff. At this stage, 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:32.480 it seems that the main question is was George Wagner 0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:35.560 there And if he wasn't was he a part of 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:38.560 the planning? And if he was a part of the planning, 0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:42.600 is he equally culpable? It seems like what the defense 0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:45.479 will try to do is hammer away at this story 0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:48.960 and argue that yes, he came from a bad family, 0:24:49.000 --> 0:24:52.080 but that doesn't make him a bad guy. So, as 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:54.800 we learned last season, the opinion of George Wagner is 0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:57.480 a little mixed. Some people were shocked that he was 0:24:57.520 --> 0:24:59.480 involved with the murders and had a very hard time 0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:02.919 wrapping their around it, and other people were not surprised 0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:05.240 and thought he was very much a part of the 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:07.480 Wagner clan. And so I think it's just going to 0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:09.639 be fascinating to watch all of this play out in 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:17.320 the courtroom. The prosecution has its vulnerabilities. Also among the 0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:21.640 media pool, there is definitely a sense of questioning about 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:26.200