1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. This is the story of a man 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and 21 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary 22 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: who built a fortune as a black man during Jim 23 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know 24 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I 25 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy 26 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you 27 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been 28 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music. 29 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: This summer, I'll hit the stage. Who Season two of 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, 31 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: we explore the live music venues and culture of a 32 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues 33 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: into the kind of venues you want to get to 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver for Seattle. Listen 35 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 36 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. There's always some tension 37 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: in every trial. This one, I would say, is an 38 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: eight and a half or nine out of ten you 39 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: shop I've seen, but all over space. The bullet ended 40 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: up in the frontal lobe of the brain. I mean, 41 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of steakecare for both sides. On the 42 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,119 Speaker 1: one side of the prosecution is overseeing the most expensive, 43 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: most complex trial in the history of Ohio, and on 44 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: the other hand, the defense is trying to save a 45 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: guy's life. So no matter how you slice this, it 46 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: is still life and death. This is the Piked and 47 00:02:54,880 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: Massacre Season four, Episode four, Devil in the Details. M 48 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie 49 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: Lydecker and Jeff Shane. We've been following this case closely 50 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: for almost five years, and it's surreal to see it 51 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: all begin to unravel in a brick red nineteenth century 52 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: courthouse on Second Street in Waverley, Ohio, a cozy town 53 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: of four thousand on the Siota River. It's important to 54 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: note that George Wagner the Fourth, who's currently on trial, 55 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he did not 56 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, 57 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. George Wagner 58 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: the Fourth says he has absolutely nothing to do with 59 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: the eight murders. His brother Jake and mother Angela have 60 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: pled guilty too, But the prosecution believes they can put 61 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: George Wagner the Fourth at the scene of the killings, 62 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: or at least prove he was part of the murder conspiracy. Soon, 63 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner and Angela Wagner will take the stand against 64 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: their family. Here's reporter James Pilcher. It depends on how 65 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: believable the jury finds Jake and Angela and is it 66 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: possible that he works free, Absolutely as possible. You never 67 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: can tell. Jake has previously testified that George Wagner did 68 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: not kill anyone. What he and his mother, Angela will 69 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: say on the stand is anyone's guess. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. 70 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: Keep in mind, the prosecution believes that they can put 71 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: George Wagner the Fourth at the scene of the killings, 72 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: or at least they feel they can prove that he 73 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: was part of the murder conspiracy. Prosecutor Angie Kinnepp, but 74 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: you'll remember, agreed in December twenty twenty ones hearing that 75 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: George Wagner the Fourth didn't kill anybody. However, unique to 76 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: the state of Ohio, someone can be sentenced to death 77 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: for an aggravated murder conviction and steff It's an interesting 78 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: distinction that we really want to make clear because it 79 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: means that you can be convicted even if all you 80 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: did was helped plan or cover up the crimes. Jake 81 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: and Angela have been proven to be liars in the past. 82 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: Remember after the murders, they claimed their innocence and then 83 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: years later, of course, changed their story. So why should 84 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: we believe them now. Pike County Sheriff Tracy Evans chose 85 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: not to be recorded while testifying, which is rare for 86 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: an elected official. We do know Evans told jurors he 87 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: was the one who determined Dana Rodin had been shot 88 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: to death after removing a blanket and pillow that was 89 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: covering her head. One key witness who agreed to be 90 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: recorded was Miranda Cable, a registered nurse and paramedic who 91 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: responded to the call at Frankie Rodin and Hannah Gilly's house. 92 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: She's one of the first responders to testify about the 93 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: crime scenes. Initially, Cable thought it was a domestic violence 94 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 1: dispute where somebody was possibly killed. She was then directed 95 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: to a second location, where she learned that were only 96 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: to seize people on the scene. She then returned to 97 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: Hannah Gilly and Frankie Roden's house, where the couple was 98 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: found brutally slaughtered. Their six month old baby had been 99 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: discovered alive covered in their blood. We were asked to 100 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: go back to the first residence to transport a child. 101 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: And do you know that child's name? Yes, it was Roden. Okay. 102 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: To protect the children's identities, we will beat the use 103 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: of any miners' names used in court. Do you know 104 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:38,679 Speaker 1: how old Roden was at that time? Six months? Okay? 105 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: So five minutes later basically okay? And do you recall 106 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: the condition that you found in. He had blood on 107 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: his head, on his arms, and legs, in various parts 108 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 1: of his body. He didn't appear to have any visible injuries, 109 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: showing you what's been marked as states Exhibit Q two. 110 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: And if there appears to be blood on his legs 111 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: and feet and head and face, is that consistent with 112 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: the condition you found him in? Yes? Okay? And can 113 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: you tell us when you were examining him, did you 114 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: personally take care not to clean him up? And he's 115 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: staying at that time? Forensic investigator Joseph Scott Morgan the 116 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: fact that Miranda that eunt had walked in and she 117 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: was essentially handed over like this still living legacy, if 118 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: you will, the stained in blood swaddled the child, I 119 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: would imagine blood stained diaper, you know, and has to 120 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: make sure and at that moment, you know, you can imagine. 121 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: I know that I've been on scenes before that were 122 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: very dramatic, but in that moment time, you're getting a 123 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: sense that everybody's been wiped out and this little precious 124 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: angel is still cooing and alive. The defense did not cross. 125 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: Timothy Dickerson, former Pike County Police officer and director of 126 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: Pike County Emergency Management, also arrived on the scene. In 127 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: his court testimony, he detailed entering Dana Roden's house to 128 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: find the bodies of hannahme and Chris Roden Jr. It 129 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: was a grizzly spectacle, actually did my vehicle went into 130 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: the home, I didn't turn right, went into a room 131 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: and found a deceased mail he was in the bed. 132 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: Went from there out through I guess would be the 133 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: living room, the kitchen area, to another room where a 134 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: deceased female was located, and then made a right and 135 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: found a third deceased female. While Dickerson was in Hanname's room, 136 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: he heard a sound and saw a baby's arms extend 137 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: up from the bed in which her mother had been 138 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: shot to death. What was the baby's condition? From what 139 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: I remember, I just remember the diaper having blood on it. 140 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: It was a traumatic scene, a large scene, and when 141 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: I discovered that the baby was alive, I was very 142 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: thankful for that. Did you have a fear that the 143 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: baby may not have been alive? Yes. Dickerson later learned 144 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: the baby was only four days old. In his words, 145 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: she was very, very tiny. The jury on day four 146 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: was shown numerable evidence photos of inside the home, bloody 147 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: drag marks, blood spatter on the wall, and other forensic material. 148 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: All of this might trigger a jury to respond in anger. 149 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,239 Speaker 1: The defense questioned whether all these gory exhibits were necessary. 150 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: Here's James Pilcher. They dove into the third crime scene, 151 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: which was the house that belonged to Dana Manly Rodin, 152 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: and that's where she, her son Chris Junior, and her 153 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: daughter Hannah rode And were all found shot to death 154 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 1: in their beds. There was a newborn infant found alive 155 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: next to Hannah. Her newborn daughter here again, Stephanie and Jeff. 156 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: In court, they've been showing these autopsy photos of the 157 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: victims and the crime scenes. As we've been hearing, very 158 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: graphic and very disturbing. And due to the graphic nature 159 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: of all these pictures and walk through, the defense has 160 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: tried to move for a mistrine. Basically how it works 161 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: in the courtroom is behind the witness, there's a flat 162 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: screen television and when pictures are shown of the crime 163 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: scenes in autopsies, etc. It goes on this big screen, 164 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: and of course the jury is moved emotionally by the 165 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: graphic nature of it, and the defense is saying, hey, 166 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: that's not fair. It's not proven that George has done this, 167 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: so humans in general are going to feel angry toward 168 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: anybody who might be associated with these photographs. And on 169 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: the flip of that, prosecutor Angie Kneppa is saying, look, 170 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: this is what happened. To not show these photos is 171 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: also a crime. You have to see the graphic details 172 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: to really know the depth of these crimes. We're going 173 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 174 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called the 175 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 176 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 177 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 178 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper. But he wasn't. 179 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious. 180 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: Bob lie about anything, but only takes the one time 181 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends 182 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay 183 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 184 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 185 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 186 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 187 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 188 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 189 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney, hell is 190 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: going on here? Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted 191 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: a situation like this. I just thought it was just 192 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. 193 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. 194 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you 195 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: find yourself at that line, thou its ricin, R's ricin, 196 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: and somebody needs to just for once give everybody the 197 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: whole truth. This is evil and the only person who 198 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going 199 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. 200 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: If you are disloyal, thinks are going to happen to 201 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: this week out disgrace to our cut. Evil Poy should 202 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: be prosecuted when power corrupts, conscience is the last line 203 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on 204 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 205 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and 206 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my 207 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always 208 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like 209 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch 210 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're 211 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: doing is evil. They will take things away and I 212 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: can only hope that dal this is that like Pearl 213 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,599 Speaker 1: Harbor moment. Girl. You and I both know what it 214 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: took to just get through the day in New York 215 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: City and get home in one piece. And so the 216 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what 217 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting 218 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you 219 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is 220 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. 221 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: Listen to The Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, 222 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure 223 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: to subscribe and share how Rude Tanta Rito's is the 224 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: Full House rewatch podcast you've been waiting for. Each week, 225 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: get together with iconic characters Stephanie Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler, 226 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: also known as actresses Jody Sweeten and Andrea Barber, as 227 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: they team up to relive every episode of your favorite 228 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: Friday night comfort show. We spent our entire childhoods on 229 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: a little show called Full House, playing frenemies but becoming 230 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: besties when for the cameras weren't rolling, and now thirty 231 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: five years later, it's our biggest adventure, yet, get ready 232 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: for Jody and Andrea to tell all as they take 233 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: an in depth book back at life in and around 234 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: the Tanner Home from the very very beginning. So if 235 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: you think you know everything there is to know about 236 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: Full House, how Rude, We'll be reliving every moment with you, 237 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: and we'll be joined by our Full House family, including 238 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: all your favorites from one hundred and ninety two episodes. 239 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: We'll reveal the hidden treasures you may have missed within 240 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: the show, and we'll take a trip down memory lane together. 241 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: Listen to how Rude Tannerritos on the iHeartRadio app, cable podcasts, 242 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Defense attorney Richard Nash 243 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: drilled Dickerson on where Dana Roden's home was located. Was 244 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: it in Pike, Adams or Sayota County. When Dickerson answered 245 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: Pike at first, the two got into a heated exchange. 246 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: This was a case of an old motion rearing its 247 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: head again that the trial venue was in proper and 248 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: search Warren's invalid because Dana's home was not technically in 249 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: Pike County. James Pilcher, I think if anybody's familiar with 250 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: old school basketball. This feels like the old four corners offense. 251 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: By the defense, they are just playing stallball. They are 252 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: trying to make this thing last as long as they 253 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: can get as many jurors frustrated as they can with 254 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: the prosecution. After Dickerson, prosecutors called Gary Michael Mosley, a 255 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: former piked In officer who responded to the scene along 256 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: with Dickerson's team. Mosley opted not to be shown on camera, 257 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: but consented to an audio recording. He says he and 258 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: his fellow deputies responded to a shots fired call at 259 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: Dana Roden's house. They searched the property with extreme caution gunstrawn, 260 00:16:54,640 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: fearing an active shooter was still on the premises. We 261 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: had no idea. His audio is a little bit difficult 262 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: to hear, so Jeff's going to read from a transcript. 263 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: Guns were out. We had a plan. Once again, we 264 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: had no idea. The house was designed the way it was, 265 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: so our plan was just to go in and set 266 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: up security base once we make entry and go from 267 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: there and secure it. Bit by bit. We opened the 268 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: door and the door swings inward to the right, so 269 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: as I came in, I do what's called a piegraph cut. 270 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: I'm an active shooter instructor, and I was taught that. 271 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: So we come in. I spin from this wall to 272 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: this wall, constantly looking to see if there's any threats 273 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: in this room. Another key witness who took the stand 274 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: was Sheriff's Lieutenant Adam Ball, who was the first officer 275 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,719 Speaker 1: on the murder scene. Ball had no idea what he 276 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: was responding to when he pulled up to the property. 277 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: He also opted not to be recorded, but Ohio Fox 278 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: nineteen reporter Mike Sheell he's the gist of the lieutenant's testimony. 279 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: The first witness opted out of being recorded. He has 280 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: Pike County Sherifs Lieutenant Adam Ball. He testified that he 281 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: was the first officer to enter the crime scene at 282 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: forty seventy seven Union Hill Road where the bodies of 283 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: Chris Roden Sor and his cousin Gary were found. Lieutenant Ball, 284 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: who was a corporal in twenty sixteen, says there was 285 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: so much blood when he walked into the front door 286 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: that he had to climb over a treadmill and other 287 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: furniture to avoid disturbing the crime scene and get to 288 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: the back bedroom where Chris and Gary Roden's bodies were 289 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: found lying together on the floor at the foot of 290 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: a bed. Chris Senior's fate was particularly heinous. The arm 291 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,479 Speaker 1: he held up in self defense was blown off at 292 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: the elbow. Here again, forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan. Chris 293 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: Senior's arm was so just absolutely mangle that she stated 294 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,719 Speaker 1: that many of the major musselburts were visible. You can 295 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: see practical bone, and she could not make heads or 296 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: tails of at what point the bullet entered his arm 297 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: and what point it exit. That's important for us because 298 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: from a forensic standpoint, it's seen, because that goes to 299 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: the dynamics of what's happening at that moment. It's not 300 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: like you're shooting that a fixed paper target at a 301 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: gun range. Okay, if Chriss rotated slightly to the left 302 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: or to the right, that could give you an indication 303 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: that he had an awareness and he was each shot 304 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: as opposed to straight on where he's staring down the 305 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: muzzle of this weapon. Here again, James Pilcher. He would 306 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: have bled to death from the shot in the arm, 307 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: the shot to his stomach. He might have survived for 308 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: several hours without treatment, but it would have caused sepsis 309 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: and other things, and it hit liver and all that. 310 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: The shot to his chest hit his heart, he would 311 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: have died within a couple of minutes. And then of 312 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: course there are six shots to the head, and they 313 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: said that four of the shots to the head were 314 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: clearly he was already lying down and not moving, so 315 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 1: these were just on top of everything else. They shot 316 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 1: him while it was on the ground to bang bang 317 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: bang bang. Lieutenant Ball was also the one to discovered 318 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: the Roden's marijuana grow operation. He describes it as quote extensive, 319 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: taking up a garage and outbuilding an a semi trailer. 320 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: He also discovered that the rodent security cameras had been dismantled. 321 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: Lieutenant Ball actually one outside after clearing the house because 322 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: they didn't know if anybody was still around. They didn't 323 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: know if somebody was still on the property killing anybody, 324 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: or armed or whatever. So after clearing the trailer were 325 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: Chris and Gary Layer. They went out and cleared the 326 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: property and at that point that's when they found the 327 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: open marijuana grow operation. And they went upstairs and that's 328 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: when they found, Hey, there's cameras and wires and no DVR. 329 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: The defense exploited the grow operation to suggest that the 330 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: murders could have been cartel related, a theory police have 331 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: long dismissed. At one time, there was a speculation that 332 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: a Mexican drug cartel may have been involved in the murders, 333 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: but then Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine said it was 334 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: not a factor. The motive was a custody dispute over 335 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodent's two year old daughter. It's 336 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: obviously too early to surmise how this trial is skewing, 337 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: but one glaring omission from the defense is this George Wagner, 338 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: the fourth attorneys have yet to offer up a clear, 339 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: solid alibi for where George was on the night of 340 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: the killings. Again, James Pelcher, they've been kind of vague 341 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 1: on this point. They have not come out and said 342 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: and actually this was they were about to say something 343 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: along those lines, and they're opening the defenses opening, and 344 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: there was an immediate objection and they went back in 345 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: the chambers. Five minutes into the defenses opening, you get 346 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: an objection from the prosecution. It was really really strange, 347 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: and they kind of intimated that George stayed home and 348 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: was asleep in his bed and he was going out, 349 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: and he found it really weird that Jake was up 350 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: before him working. He wanted nothing to do with his 351 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: family and he wanted he's trying to stay away from him. 352 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: But they never came out and said he has an alibi. 353 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: That never came out and said this is where he was. 354 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: And that's going to be the difficult thing for the defense, 355 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 1: especially when you start seeing their funds were commingled. They 356 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: even have him on recording telling his mother, I don't 357 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: want to leave. We're all here together, this place as 358 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: a moneymaker. This is after they moved to Alaska. I 359 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: know him jumping out of myself. But there have been 360 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: evidence produced since the first stages of the trial that 361 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: have indicated that George was still part of the family. 362 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: He didn't want to leave, like the defense has indicated 363 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: in their opening statements, and the prosecution is specifically tailoring 364 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: their evidence towards what the defense set in the opening 365 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: statement that George wanted to move out, George wanted nothing 366 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: to do with the family, and they're introducing evidence piece 367 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: by piece that that was not the case. Joseph Scott 368 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: Morgan weighs in on the challenges the prosecution phases to 369 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: place George at the scene of the crime. I think 370 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: that there are a lot of circumstantial issues regarding the planning. 371 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: I think that he had an awareness, obviously, and for 372 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: all I know, he was very well in the vehicle, 373 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you know, who am I to say, 374 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: but to physically put him in, you know, in the 375 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: trailer with for instance, with Chris and Gary that night 376 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: when that hole was blown through the door, or you know, 377 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: when that wood was splintered and sent into Chris seeing 378 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: your's face, you know, you really think you know, was 379 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: he there? You know it was he physically there while 380 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: it was happening, or when the bodies are being drug 381 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: from one room to the other, you know, which is 382 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: really kind of an exclamation point in all of this, 383 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: because it goes to the kind of the ghastliness of 384 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: it all. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff. At this stage, 385 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: it seems that the main question is was George Wagner 386 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: there And if he wasn't was he a part of 387 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: the planning? And if he was a part of the planning, 388 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: is he equally culpable? It seems like what the defense 389 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,479 Speaker 1: will try to do is hammer away at this story 390 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: and argue that yes, he came from a bad family, 391 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: but that doesn't make him a bad guy. So, as 392 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: we learned last season, the opinion of George Wagner is 393 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: a little mixed. Some people were shocked that he was 394 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: involved with the murders and had a very hard time 395 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: wrapping their around it, and other people were not surprised 396 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: and thought he was very much a part of the 397 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: Wagner clan. And so I think it's just going to 398 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: be fascinating to watch all of this play out in 399 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: the courtroom. The prosecution has its vulnerabilities. Also among the 400 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: media pool, there is definitely a sense of questioning about 401 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: the prosecution strategy and when are they all going to 402 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: tie this together? When are they going to point to 403 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: George being part of this conspiracy because none of the 404 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: physical evidence presented so far. They're starting to get into 405 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: some of the other evidence on the wire taps and 406 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: so forth, but they even stipulated none of the physical 407 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: evidence they found that the crime scenes had any of 408 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: the Wagoners to any of these crime scenes. Joseph Morgan 409 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: theorizes about how the lack of DNA evidence will be 410 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: a possible blockade improving. George the Fourth was there the 411 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: night of the slings. It's tough nowadays. You know, maybe 412 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: ten years ago it wouldn't have been tough. But we're 413 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,239 Speaker 1: in a brave new world. People have an expectation that, oh, 414 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: they're gonna get here and talk about DNA. I've seen 415 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: that on television. And you get up there and it's 416 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 1: a big fail, you know, as far as the jury 417 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: is concerned. But just because you have an absence of 418 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,360 Speaker 1: something doesn't mean that something hasn't occurred. It's just that 419 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: that's what many people expect. You know, that we can 420 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: conjure up DNA and you can't. It's either there it's not, 421 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 1: you know, and I think that that's significant, and it's 422 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: also significant relative to fingerprints as well. Let's stop here 423 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:42,719 Speaker 1: for another break. Oh I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting 424 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: a podcast called The girl Friends. Back in the nineteen 425 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the 426 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, 427 00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He 428 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: was perfect on paper, but he wasn't He really wasn't. 429 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: He shouted to the point she went unconscious. Bob could 430 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: lie about anything, but only takes the one time when 431 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know 432 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for 433 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 1: his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll 434 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 435 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 436 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 437 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 438 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 439 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney. Hell is 440 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted 441 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: a situation like this. I just thought it was just 442 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. 443 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. 444 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you 445 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: find yourself at that line. Thoughts. Ricin, arn't ricin, And 446 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth, 447 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: like this is evil and the only person who can 448 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to 449 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: sit silently buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. 450 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to 451 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: this week out disgrace through our gun. Pevil play should 452 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: be prosecute when power corrupts, conscience is the last line 453 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on 454 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 455 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and 456 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my 457 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always 458 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: time to touch incredible guests about important things people like 459 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch 460 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're 461 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: doing is evil. They will take things away, and I 462 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment. Girl, 463 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: You and I both know what it took to just 464 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: get through the day in New York City and get 465 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: home in one piece. And so the fact that we're 466 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,959 Speaker 1: here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, 467 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. 468 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, 469 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking 470 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne 471 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever 472 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. 473 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Bad Manners. This is the podcast 474 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: that takes you inside Britain's stately homes and tells all 475 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: the tales the guy books don't. My name is Tom 476 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: Horton and I'll be your host. Britain is a riddle 477 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: with the big hou from crumbling castles, massive mansions and 478 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: stately piles bigger than bucking and Palace. As a comedian, 479 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm not really bothered about the facts and figures. I 480 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: just want the juicy stuff. So I'm on a mission 481 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: to find out the frightening, filthy and downright jaw dropping 482 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: stories of these stately homes and the people in them. 483 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: This podcast ventures deep inside some of Britain's most incredible 484 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: and outrageous buildings to spill the tea on the scandalous, scary, 485 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: shocking and hilarious tales. So if you want to get 486 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: historically horrid, royally raucus and down to dirty look no 487 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: fur listen to Bad Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple 488 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. With eight bodies 489 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: and four suspects, this is a case with a dizzying 490 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: number of moving pieces, and there's a real risk of 491 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: the jury being confused, allowing reasonable doubt to seep in. 492 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: Here's law and crimes legal analyst Terry Austin. The more complicated, 493 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: the better for the defense. The most complicating part of 494 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: this case is keeping track of the names and the relationships. 495 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: I mean, we know already that there are eight victims 496 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: for defendants for different crime scenes, and all of those 497 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: individuals have people who were involved in terms of finding 498 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: those individuals who were killed, and so the biggest issue 499 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: for the prosecution is going to keep everything straight. You 500 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: want that jury to follow your story. In the case 501 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: of prosecution trying to pursue the claims against George, it's 502 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: going to be difficult to establish that motive. They have 503 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: evidence against, you know, obviously Jake against Angela, but I 504 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: think it might be difficult and all you have to do, 505 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: as you know, is have one juror who has reasonable 506 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: doubt and doesn't want to convict and where you happen. 507 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: So we'll see what happens. But I think there could 508 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: be some doubt in the case against George here. And remember, 509 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: this is a jury of his peers that's rooted within 510 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: our family documents, and his peers consist of those that 511 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: live in that small slice of the world up there 512 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: that they see each other day to day, you know, 513 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: Walmarton at cafe and everywhere else that they go up there, 514 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: they see one another and they know one They raise 515 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: their hands one another, they're driving down the road and wave, 516 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: you know, and that sort of thing. It's that kind 517 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: of community. And I previously said and I'll continue to 518 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: say that the level of brutality that is involved in 519 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: the pike and massacre, in the murders of the road 520 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: and family, again, it is something that is going to 521 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: live in infamy in this corner of the world. It's 522 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: the type of thing that one hundred years from now, 523 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: kids will sit around campfires and they will tell horror 524 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: stories about this is what we're with in that world. 525 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: And so it's on the shoulders of this jury to 526 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: weigh the evidence and decide. You know, is somebody going 527 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: to be made to pay. But they've got a hard decision, 528 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: I think, and it's still coming and they're not there yet, 529 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: but they will have a hard decision to make it 530 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: by George. So look at it this way. TV has 531 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: sixty minutes, maybe two hours. If you're a movie to 532 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: tell a story about a trial, you can only fit 533 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: so much evidence. You can only fit so much dramatic 534 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: moments into that. But when you're dealing with the actual 535 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: rule of law and how you can introduce evidence and 536 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: what kind of questions you can ask and all of 537 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: those things, all that stuff you see on TV is 538 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: out the door. So what we're seeing is the very 539 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: slow incremental process of justice and the law. In this case, 540 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: Lady and Gentleman's a jury. We're going to a journance 541 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: for the day, could be going home, could be taking 542 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: your badges with you and leaving your notepads on your chairs. 543 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: As Day four wrapped up in the face of all 544 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,280 Speaker 1: the brutal evidence, presiding Judge Randy Deering took a moment 545 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: to remind the jury of their weighty responsibilities. And you 546 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: know what else, I'm going to say, You're not to 547 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: discuss this case among yourselves or with anyone else. You're 548 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: not to permit this case if we discussed with you 549 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: or in your presence. You're not to form or express 550 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 1: an opinion concerning this case until it is finally submitted 551 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: to you for deliberation and verdict. You not read, listen to, 552 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: or view any reports or accounts of this case from 553 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: any source whatsoever. Even though many witnesses are opting out 554 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,760 Speaker 1: of being recorded, the Katie Studios team and experts are there. 555 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: In the coming weeks, the pieces of a devastating and 556 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: complicated puzzle will finally come together once and for all. 557 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: I would say they were trying to shock the jury 558 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: at this point with the violence of it, for sure, 559 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: because they showed the pictures of people dead in their 560 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: beds or on the floor or pulled into beds time 561 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: and time and time again. I can't imagine. Can you 562 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: even put it into words? What it's like more slightmare? 563 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: Living in hail really well, I was trying to get 564 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: home my father, and I want able to Greechi to 565 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: let him know that his brother and his niece and 566 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: nephews and stuff has been killed, Luke said their dad, 567 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner once threatened violence against his dad and his uncle, 568 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 1: Chris Rodin Senior. Luke said that while his dad and 569 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: uncle were doing a good deed for Billy Wagner, Billy 570 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 1: told Luke that a dust up between the three of 571 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: them would not end well. Markma worst this case. It 572 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:56,959 Speaker 1: is about to blow wide open. More on that next time. 573 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: For more information on the case and real elevant photos, 574 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked 575 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: and Masaker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, 576 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: Alan Wheaterer, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and 577 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: sound designed by Jeff Ti Music by Jared Aston. The 578 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. 579 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 580 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.