Speaker 1: What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the podcast. This this
Speaker 1: episode two hundred and eight, and I've got a first
Speaker 1: time guest, longtime friend, first time guest, Marshall Canalis and
Speaker 1: he's also my pastor at a Mais Church in Georgetown, Texas.
Speaker 1: And the reason the reason I bring anybody on, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't just like bring on celebrities or or friends
Speaker 1: because I like them. I really don't. I really use
Speaker 1: this podcast and I I am very sensitive to it
Speaker 1: because these are my people that have asked questions sensitive
Speaker 1: questions sometimes sometimes this podcast, unfortunately, it's the only outlet
Speaker 1: that they have. And so I choose people for this
Speaker 1: that I would trust with my stuff. And that's you,
Speaker 1: and that's Bernie, and that's Parker, and that's Chad. And
Speaker 1: that's why it's a small group because if I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: I'm going through something, let me and I've done this
Speaker 1: before with you if I have something going on, what
Speaker 1: would you do in my situation or how would you
Speaker 1: give me advice in this situation? And you're one of
Speaker 1: the wisest people I know in my life right now,
Speaker 1: you are the one of the wisest people with the
Speaker 1: best counsel. You are. You always have such a sound mind.
Speaker 1: And I mean it's evident the Lord puts you in
Speaker 1: my life at the perfect time when I needed someone
Speaker 1: like you. And and so now I would love if
Speaker 1: you would do the same thing you do for me
Speaker 1: to so many on this podcast. So dude, I just
Speaker 1: appreciate you being here.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that intro. Man, that's a lot to live
Speaker 2: up to.
Speaker 1: No, you just have to be yourself. And and so
Speaker 1: everyone knows we don't have notes in front of us,
Speaker 1: we don't have like famous Sea Lewis quotes on this table,
Speaker 1: or we don't even have a Bible in front of us.
Speaker 1: We can pull out our phones and look stuff up,
Speaker 1: but we do that on purpose because we're not preparing
Speaker 1: for these questions. Marshall doesn't know anything it's about to
Speaker 1: come at him, and that way, it creates an atmosphere
Speaker 1: like we're just sitting in the cab of a truck
Speaker 1: and you say, hey, man, can I run something bias
Speaker 1: something I've been going through And we'll say, yeah, let's
Speaker 1: hear it. And we don't have to tell you the
Speaker 1: exact right answer right now, but sometimes we could just
Speaker 1: point you in the direction of where that answer might be.
Speaker 1: That's our goal, and to do that, you just email
Speaker 1: Grangersmith Podcast at gmail dot com and then we're going
Speaker 1: to get into this you ready, ready, all right? Randomly,
Speaker 1: I'm to pull out these questions. The first one says
Speaker 1: subject line podcast question. The email says, Hey Grandeer, my
Speaker 1: name is Chandler. I'm twenty one years old. I was
Speaker 1: saved when I was fifteen at church camp. I was
Speaker 1: on a high for God. But life happened and started
Speaker 1: working and dating, et cetera. I started working in dating,
Speaker 1: et cetera. Is what he meant. I went through a
Speaker 1: rough patch with my faith and finally getting back into
Speaker 1: church where I could where I can work with my schedule.
Speaker 1: I think that's what he meant. Any advice on how
Speaker 1: to get closer to God and being a strong Christian
Speaker 1: young man, Thank you, Chandler. So here's this dude, Chandler,
Speaker 1: twenty one. He's been saved for six years at church camp.
Speaker 1: Which is the story that we hear a lot of
Speaker 1: some kind of church camp something like that, And then
Speaker 1: you're on a high for God. That's totally normal, and
Speaker 1: then life happened and you settled back down a little
Speaker 1: bit you started trusting yourself a little bit more. You
Speaker 1: kind of forgot about that high that church camp brought you.
Speaker 1: When it was when the band was playing and all
Speaker 1: your friends were there and the lights were on and
Speaker 1: you all got down on your knees and you asked
Speaker 1: Jesus into your heart with this prayer and then life
Speaker 1: and as you say, you went through a rough patch
Speaker 1: with your faith and finally getting back into church that
Speaker 1: works with your schedule. So his advice, Marshall, is any
Speaker 1: advice on getting closer to God and being a strong
Speaker 1: Christian young man. And by the way, Chandler, it's a
Speaker 1: very normal story, like you're not you're not saying something
Speaker 1: that that we would be like, oh man, that's that's
Speaker 1: a problem. We're saying yep, I hear you, man. And
Speaker 1: you're asking the right question. The fact that you're emailing,
Speaker 1: you're thinking about this, you're you're in a church now,
Speaker 1: this is this is good. So what do you tell
Speaker 1: Chandler Marshall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, just one encouraging that you have this
Speaker 2: desire to be closer to God and that you found
Speaker 2: a way to get back into church. Because one of
Speaker 2: the things I would tell you is to get closer
Speaker 2: to God. You got to get closer to His people.
Speaker 2: Not not just so that you would feel closer to Him,
Speaker 2: but you have all those people around you who can
Speaker 2: support you, and when you hit those trials of life,
Speaker 2: they can speak God's promises in your life, but also
Speaker 2: speak his warnings in your life when you're going kind
Speaker 2: of against what His word is saying. And so you
Speaker 2: need the people of God around you to hold you
Speaker 2: accountable to God. And so it also will prevent you
Speaker 2: from trying to seek this constant high that you probably
Speaker 2: felt at youth camp. I mean I've been there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're just surrounding and I think that's actually a testament
Speaker 2: to being around God's people, right, Like you're around all
Speaker 2: these people who want to be on fire for God,
Speaker 2: and you kind of feed off of that a little bit.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 2: Being around the people of God will constantly point you
Speaker 2: in the right direction when life's telling you to go
Speaker 2: in to a different direction when you know, I would
Speaker 2: they say dating and works kind of got in the way.
Speaker 2: When you're in church, that's gonna constantly confront you with
Speaker 2: this reality of your you're kind of distancing yourself from
Speaker 2: the people of God. And if you're distancing yourself from
Speaker 2: the people of God, in some sense, you're distancing yourself
Speaker 2: from God himself because He's called us to be in community.
Speaker 2: And so when you're distancing yourself from that community, it
Speaker 2: should feel weird, it should feel awkward, it should probably
Speaker 2: get tough because you're trying to do something that you
Speaker 2: weren't designed to do, and that's live life on your own.
Speaker 2: And so you surround yourself with people who are constantly
Speaker 2: pointing you to Jesus.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so good. And to that same point of
Speaker 1: being closer to God's people than Chandler, we could also say,
Speaker 1: what are you listening to? What are you watching? Like,
Speaker 1: what movies are you watching? What what comedians are you
Speaker 1: going to see? What people are you hanging around at
Speaker 1: work that are telling those jokes that you're laughing at
Speaker 1: because you're kind of assimilating into that culture and away
Speaker 1: from God's culture. So if you want to be closer
Speaker 1: to God, there's exactly the question you asked. You want
Speaker 1: to get closer to God, then Marshall's going to say,
Speaker 1: get closer to his people, And in that aspect, you're
Speaker 1: going to kind of start dislocating you know that joint
Speaker 1: of where you are with the world, which is in
Speaker 1: the music, of the culture and the movies, because you're
Speaker 1: gonna want to crave that less and crave his people
Speaker 1: and his things and things that he loves more. And
Speaker 1: that's how you get closer. This is not just God.
Speaker 1: You want to say, how to get closer to this girl, Well,
Speaker 1: you're gonna start digging into the hobbies that she likes.
Speaker 1: You're gonna start hanging out with her dad. You're gonna
Speaker 1: start going to church with them on a Sunday morning.
Speaker 1: That's how you're gonna get closer to her. So it
Speaker 1: would be the same thing getting closer to God. It's
Speaker 1: no different. It's a relationship. It's what Christianity is. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Something else that he said in there, I'm able to
Speaker 2: go to church that fits around my schedule. Yeah, just
Speaker 2: probably thinking through is what is in your schedule absolutely
Speaker 2: vital for your life. So if it's, well, I'm out
Speaker 2: really late on Saturday night, so it doesn't really work
Speaker 2: for my schedule to wake up in the morning and
Speaker 2: go or you know, i'd rather I know y'all talked
Speaker 2: about sports on the last episode. You know, I'd rather
Speaker 2: be doing sports on Sunday morning, and so that doesn't
Speaker 2: work with my schedule. It's what's on your schedule that
Speaker 2: is absolutely vital to your life that would warrant you
Speaker 2: missing church regularly, and so just getting not necessarily finding
Speaker 2: a church that fits your schedule, but prioritizing gathering with
Speaker 2: the people of God on Sunday morning may mean that
Speaker 2: you need to reorient in your schedule. Yeah, and not
Speaker 2: find a church that fits your schedule.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good, that's good. And know that when you
Speaker 1: try to do that, like we talked about with Bernie,
Speaker 1: when you tried to do that, it's going to be uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're going to the world's going to go you're crazy.
Speaker 1: You don't miss this baseball game, or you don't you
Speaker 1: don't miss this barbecue that me and the boys do
Speaker 1: every Sunday morning at eleven am. That's what we do.
Speaker 1: So we've always done Chandler, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: So it's not going to be easy, Yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: that's how you get closer to God and that's where
Speaker 1: your peace and your rest ultimately lie. So you're on
Speaker 1: the right track. Man. I want to encourage you for
Speaker 1: asking the right questions. Surprise, surprise, the next one says
Speaker 1: Bible question. The email says, Hey, this is Elvin. I'm
Speaker 1: twenty years old from Greenbrier County, West Virginia. What is
Speaker 1: the difference when the Bible says Jesus Christ verse Christ Jesus.
Speaker 1: I love your book and I bought it one for
Speaker 1: my dad. I hope you're having a wonderful day. Okay,
Speaker 1: So more or less a translation question here. So Christ
Speaker 1: is Messiah, Savior. So that's the title. In fact, you
Speaker 1: said this in a sermon last Sunday. That's one of
Speaker 1: Jesus's titles, is the Christ, the Messiah, the Savior. And
Speaker 1: the Jews would really appreciate that title because they understood
Speaker 1: that through their prophecy. So what you're saying, you're asking us,
Speaker 1: how where do you put the title? And so it's
Speaker 1: not that big a deal. And do you have any
Speaker 1: to say about that if there's any weight to that
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't matter the placement of it. It's just
Speaker 2: signaling to the people, especially who knew the Old Testament,
Speaker 2: that Jesus was the one that God had promised throughout
Speaker 2: the entire Old Testament. So you could put in there
Speaker 2: Jesus who is the Christ or the Christ who is Jesus.
Speaker 2: So if you could move those at those in there
Speaker 2: to kind of help with it, you're not changing who
Speaker 2: he is or what's being said about him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly you'll see it in different translations. You could
Speaker 1: see each one translated differently in the same passage as well.
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus. Some people, some churches will
Speaker 1: only say Jesus Christ. They will never say Christ Jesus.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily know the difference why people do that.
Speaker 1: LDS Church is one. It's always Jesus Christ. They will
Speaker 1: never say just Jesus.
Speaker 2: I'm not really sure why they would do that either.
Speaker 1: But interesting call them it below if you know. The
Speaker 1: next question, subject says, when is it enough? Eight years?
Speaker 1: This is just going to start. This is how it starts.
Speaker 1: Eight years single, thirty two years old. It's hard to
Speaker 1: date in twenty twenty three. I don't want to waste
Speaker 1: my time dating as I have tried. I have spent
Speaker 1: a lot of money paying for dinners. I have not
Speaker 1: been the best in past relationships or talking ships. He says,
Speaker 1: as I shut down due to pass experiences, I fall
Speaker 1: easily for women who actually give me attention. But I
Speaker 1: have been burned so many times. I tend to think
Speaker 1: more of the future. It's not worth talking to her
Speaker 1: because of etc. Etc. I want a family and kids.
Speaker 1: I want to keep the family name alive. I have
Speaker 1: a huge belief in marrying before children. I am getting
Speaker 1: older and my tolerance gets lower by the day. Is
Speaker 1: there a thing that is there a thing that there
Speaker 1: are more fish in the sea? Colon? Wait, this is
Speaker 1: how you wrote it, man, or do you think overthinking
Speaker 1: is too much? I read that exactly how he wrote it.
Speaker 1: This guy's name is Taylor, and okay. Interesting. So thirty two,
Speaker 1: first of all, is not old, but you think it is.
Speaker 1: And eight years single it's not necessarily a long time either.
Speaker 1: So that's a perspective that we're gonna have to change
Speaker 1: with you here. Is that the culture maybe you're hearing
Speaker 1: from your world that thirty two is now you're getting
Speaker 1: really up there and you're late in your years and
Speaker 1: almost too late to ever find a wife, and your
Speaker 1: family name is gonna go away. That's these are things
Speaker 1: that's happened that are happening in your head right now.
Speaker 1: But I hear a lot of cynicism. I hear a
Speaker 1: lot of frustration from you that I got a feeling
Speaker 1: is not just in this email. I got a feeling
Speaker 1: this frustration is coming out in a lot of the
Speaker 1: other aspects of your life. So when I hear stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and in terms of you wanting to find somebody,
Speaker 1: I always think you should try to be the person
Speaker 1: that would attract the woman that you want. Because the
Speaker 1: woman that you want that has this family with you,
Speaker 1: and has your children and raises them as their mother,
Speaker 1: and keeps the family name alive, and becomes that best
Speaker 1: friend of yours, that first level of security of advice
Speaker 1: in this relationship at home, that woman, whoever she is,
Speaker 1: would she be attracted to this guy that you are
Speaker 1: right now? This cynical? I'm impatient. I shut down because
Speaker 1: of past relationships. I don't really like paying for dinners
Speaker 1: a lot. That guy is the woman you want, the
Speaker 1: mother of your children. I know you have her in
Speaker 1: your head. Is she attracted to you the way you
Speaker 1: are right now? I don't think so. Man, What do
Speaker 1: you say to this guy Marshall?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean part of it when when you were
Speaker 2: reading it, my word of caution to what he's saying
Speaker 2: there were a lot of good things he said in there,
Speaker 2: like he's a strong believer that you know, get married
Speaker 2: before you have kids. Yeah, amen, do that, But you
Speaker 2: want to make sure you're not looking at these women
Speaker 2: as a means to an end. So it's it's not
Speaker 2: I need to get married so I can pass on
Speaker 2: my name and have kids.
Speaker 1: Like what if the Lord in his.
Speaker 2: Providence decides y'all can't have kids, You're not going to
Speaker 2: have kids. The only thing that's going to get you
Speaker 2: through that, apart from God's grace, is the fact that
Speaker 2: you love the woman you're with and she wasn't just
Speaker 2: a means to get the children or to pass on
Speaker 2: the name.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 2: While I think it's good to be thinking like can
Speaker 2: I see myself marrying this woman and being the mother
Speaker 2: of potential kids down the road, you don't want that
Speaker 2: to be the sole reason you're with this woman. Do
Speaker 2: you see yourself with her? Do you see yourself growing
Speaker 2: with her? Can you see yourself leading her towards Jesus?
Speaker 2: So just that would be the only word of caution
Speaker 2: on top of what you said, is just sure don't
Speaker 2: use her as as as a means to an end.
Speaker 1: So what Marsha's saying is, imagine you're a dinner and
Speaker 1: you're on a date and you're telling this woman, You're saying,
Speaker 1: are you paying her me? Because I'm not really into pain,
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry, I got to admit that as I
Speaker 1: get older, my tolerance gets lower and I'm really what
Speaker 1: I'm wanting is a mother to some children to carry
Speaker 1: on my name. Like that sounds horrible, you wouldn't say that,
Speaker 1: but that's that's what your thought is. And if that's
Speaker 1: what you're thinking, and that's what you want, And Marshall's saying,
Speaker 1: I'm going to caution against that because you could get
Speaker 1: none of that and that's not attracting anybody that's worth anything.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, to take all that digest a little
Speaker 1: bit and then ultimately remember too that you're thirty two minutes.
Speaker 1: You got a lot of time. Things could change like that.
Speaker 1: You could meet someone tomorrow, be engaged in two months
Speaker 1: and married in four months. Yea, this is not that's
Speaker 1: not out of the ordinary for that to happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: doing good man. Let's get another one. Oh man, this
Speaker 1: is one. See this subject life baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1: Here we go Hey, grangeur great talk. A couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago at Liberty. I attend Virginia Tech, but drove
Speaker 1: ninety miles to see you speak and I love the message.
Speaker 1: Thank you man. My question to you is about the
Speaker 1: baptism of the Holy Spirit. I am part of a
Speaker 1: campus ministry at Virginia Tech and have encountered spiritual gifts
Speaker 1: such as prophecy, words of knowledge, and speaking in tongues.
Speaker 1: I want to hear if you believe in this too,
Speaker 1: because you have mentioned that you came from a Baptist background,
Speaker 1: which traditionally doesn't believe in these gifts. First scene and
Speaker 1: acts too on the day of Pentecost, explain a lot
Speaker 1: about the apostles being told by Jesus to wait until
Speaker 1: he can send a helper, the Holy Spirit. Then on Pentecost,
Speaker 1: a sound like a rushing wind came and they all
Speaker 1: began speaking in o their tongues. Thanks for your time, brother,
Speaker 1: and super excited about your path. I will be praying
Speaker 1: for you. Carson Carson, thank you man. Thanks for driving
Speaker 1: ninety miles. That's amazing. And shout out to Virginia Tech.
Speaker 1: It's a really cool school. I've never visited, but every
Speaker 1: time I see him on TV. They kind of remind
Speaker 1: me of Texas A and M where I went. They're
Speaker 1: kind of like minded in that way. So yeah, Baptism
Speaker 1: and the Holy Spirit. Here's what I know, don't I'm
Speaker 1: not a master on this at all, don't know a lot,
Speaker 1: but let me tell you what I do know. In
Speaker 1: the turn of the twentieth century in the United States,
Speaker 1: there was a there had been a rise for about
Speaker 1: one hundred years or so of liberal Christianity. Right. It's
Speaker 1: where major doctrines, vital organ doctrines heard that today at
Speaker 1: lunch were being compromised, and there was a like any
Speaker 1: kind of rise of something like this liberalism, like in
Speaker 1: the government or anything, there's always a conservative backlash. And
Speaker 1: that's what happened in the twentieth century, the turn about
Speaker 1: nineteen hundred or so, that was the rise of fundamentalism.
Speaker 1: It was the rise of the Orthodox Presbyterians, the Pentecostals,
Speaker 1: the Evangelicals in some of the way that we know
Speaker 1: them as to be today. And the rise of those
Speaker 1: usually had something in common. And all of those different
Speaker 1: sorts of denominations are cultures, they all together they had
Speaker 1: in common. Let's let's stick with doctrine, let's go with
Speaker 1: what the word says, you know. The fundamentalist it's like,
Speaker 1: let's do exactly what the Bible says, word for word.
Speaker 1: That's what we need to do, exactly that, right, And
Speaker 1: so there's a good spirit about that, you know, And
Speaker 1: I think we could all agree that there is a
Speaker 1: there is a constructive spirit with that. But Pentecostalism, I
Speaker 1: think I think it's the West Coast thing. I think
Speaker 1: I think it grew in the West Coast and it
Speaker 1: was like reading the Book of Acts literally, and so
Speaker 1: this this rise comes and so kind of my point
Speaker 1: is it's a it's fairly new, as as a lot
Speaker 1: of these different denominations are fairly new. And the danger
Speaker 1: of this, and in mind, this is just my opinion.
Speaker 1: This could mean nothing to you, Carson. I'm not discounting you.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you don't speak in tongues. You're wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that anyone can't
Speaker 1: speak tongues. Now, what I am saying is, I always
Speaker 1: think we should caution ourselves when we get too far
Speaker 1: into a thing that's outside of the Gospel. I believe
Speaker 1: that with eschatology when we're talking about in times and
Speaker 1: we're talking about the rapture and people to get obsessed
Speaker 1: with the mark of the Beast and six six six
Speaker 1: and and and I feel the same way when we
Speaker 1: start talking about baptism of the Holy Spirit. Because as
Speaker 1: I as I had my rebirth and kind of went
Speaker 1: out into the world, a lot of people came to
Speaker 1: me with their with their their their mentality of Christianity, like, okay, greater,
Speaker 1: now that you've done that, here's what you need to do.
Speaker 1: And I heard a lot a lot of people say,
Speaker 1: now that you've been reborn, your next goal is to
Speaker 1: seek wisdom and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And
Speaker 1: I remember when I first heard that. I first heard that,
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I love John three. I love
Speaker 1: reading John three. Like Jesus says that the spirit's like
Speaker 1: the wind, no one knows where it comes from or
Speaker 1: where it's going. I love that. And everyone must be
Speaker 1: reborn by the spirit to enter the Kingdom of God.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that whole conversation with Nicodemus.
Speaker 1: And then I come to find out, no, that's not
Speaker 1: at all what they're talking about, not talking about anything
Speaker 1: Jesus said about the Holy Spirit. So we do know
Speaker 1: a little bit about tongues. We do know that it's
Speaker 1: made to edify the church. We could debate all day
Speaker 1: about whether whether you need to speak tongues to be
Speaker 1: a Christian or whether you need to have one of
Speaker 1: these gifts to actually be a Christian. We could discuss that,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to. I want to instead just
Speaker 1: caution and just say, let's worry about the gospel more
Speaker 1: than any of that other stuff. The gospel meaning what
Speaker 1: who Jesus is and what he did. And if we
Speaker 1: lose sight of that, I think I think Jesus would
Speaker 1: be like, what are you talking about? What? Why are
Speaker 1: you worrying about this stuff? Why are you working worrying
Speaker 1: about the baptism of the Holy Spirit? When I told
Speaker 1: you what baptism is. What do you got for this, Marshal?
Speaker 1: And I want to You're a pastor, so I don't
Speaker 1: want to stick you out on a limb here.
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, you're good. I mean, one thing that
Speaker 2: always comes to my mind when we actually talked about
Speaker 2: this in Bible study last week that in Ephesians, Paul
Speaker 2: talks about, you know, there's one Lord one Gospel, one baptism,
Speaker 2: So there's not these two different baptisms according to what
Speaker 2: Paul's saying there. And so, I mean, we believe that
Speaker 2: you get the Holy Spirit when you're when you become
Speaker 2: a Christian, when you're converted, like you have the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 2: While we won't get into this stuff with the spiritual
Speaker 2: gifts like you were talking about, one thing I will
Speaker 2: say and you and you mentioned it briefly, is if
Speaker 2: if your church practice those things, those are things, according
Speaker 2: to Paul and First Corinthians, that were given to the
Speaker 2: church for the building up of the church. So these
Speaker 2: aren't things that are supposed to make you feel more
Speaker 2: like you're a Christian. They're supposed to actually encourage other believers.
Speaker 2: And so even if your position is to lean more
Speaker 2: on spiritual gifts, it's not for your own encouragement or
Speaker 2: your own affirmation of your faith. It's meant to encourage
Speaker 2: other people in the church that you've covenanted with. And
Speaker 2: so if that is your position, don't stress so much
Speaker 2: on yourself when it comes to the spiritual gifts. But
Speaker 2: if they're being used for others in the congregation.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's good. Yeah, And Pentecostalism. Also one of
Speaker 1: the another reason it kind of rose to what it
Speaker 1: is today is because people looked at the churches that
Speaker 1: were too uptight and like doing congregational readings and standing
Speaker 1: and sitting down at the same time, and they thought,
Speaker 1: this is this is this is a bad interpretation of
Speaker 1: what a church is supposed to look like. So, hey,
Speaker 1: I have nothing, I have nothing against that. That's a
Speaker 1: personality thing. I it's like, hey, we need to we
Speaker 1: need to have a more loose, a more loose service.
Speaker 1: We need to just flow with it. I don't have
Speaker 1: any problem with that. But when you start looking at
Speaker 1: other churches and saying you're not flowing with it. We're
Speaker 1: flowing with it, but you're not. There's I heard a
Speaker 1: guy today at lunch say, you could you can't catch
Speaker 1: a bass with the same bait you use to catch
Speaker 1: a catfish, And we could, we could looks could look
Speaker 1: at the we could look a doctrine and and this say,
Speaker 1: you can look at the the major denominations in a
Speaker 1: similar way. You can't catch a bass with the catfish bait.
Speaker 1: So that's why they exist. But yeah, I hope that
Speaker 1: I hope that answers the question. I think to sum
Speaker 1: up everything we said is just caution about that becoming
Speaker 1: the main thing, and then you lose track of what
Speaker 1: really is the main thing, the Gospel of Jesus. I'll
Speaker 1: take a break. Bear right back. A few weeks ago,
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Speaker 1: or another website like Barnesannoble dot com or Walmart dot com,
Speaker 1: you know what really helps me. I know a lot
Speaker 1: of y'all have read the book, that have listened to
Speaker 1: this podcast. It really helps me. If you review it,
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Speaker 1: you want me to send you a message, I say
Speaker 1: this a lot. Cameo dot com slash Granger Smith. It's
Speaker 1: a really good way to do it. Or you can
Speaker 1: download the cameo app and search for me Granger Smith.
Speaker 1: You ask for whatever you want me to record, and
Speaker 1: I pull out my phone and do a video message
Speaker 1: specifically to you or to your son, or your boyfriend
Speaker 1: or girlfriend, our daughter or whatever. It might be a
Speaker 1: word of encouragement, Happy birthday, happy anniversary, Merry Christmas. I
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Speaker 1: and it's really easy. It's a great last minute gift
Speaker 1: and something for someone that has everything. So Cameo dot
Speaker 1: com slash Granger Smith. Back to the podcast. Okay, sitting
Speaker 1: here with dear friend and also my pastor, Marshall Canalis
Speaker 1: and were Amber and I are members at this church
Speaker 1: we planted launched in October of last year, so not
Speaker 1: even as we do this podcast as we record, I'm
Speaker 1: not even a year old yet, Nope, which is pretty neat.
Speaker 1: I love this church and I'm so excited about it.
Speaker 1: Love you and your family, and this church is different
Speaker 1: than a lot of churches in a few different ways.
Speaker 1: And one of the things, one of the many things,
Speaker 1: is we take membership very seriously. Why do we take
Speaker 1: membership seriously at the mayis.
Speaker 2: Because it's biblical, and I mean there's multiple layers to it, right,
Speaker 2: So you could start with just the church leadership. So
Speaker 2: Hebrews thirteen, it says that your elders, the pastors have
Speaker 2: give oversight to your souls and are held accountable to
Speaker 2: God for your souls. And so as elders, we want
Speaker 2: to make sure we know who we're accountable for.
Speaker 1: I want to make sure we.
Speaker 2: Know who the Lord is saying, like, hey, you're responsible
Speaker 2: over these souls. So there's that. Then also just the
Speaker 2: reality that we need we mentioned this earlier. We need
Speaker 2: the reality. We need other Christians in our lives who
Speaker 2: will hold us to the confession that we have of
Speaker 2: our faith, our profession that we have of faith in Jesus,
Speaker 2: to call us out in our sin, but also encourage
Speaker 2: us in our moments of weakness and constantly point us
Speaker 2: back to Jesus, whether that's reminding us of the promises
Speaker 2: of God in his word or reminding us of the
Speaker 2: warnings that we find in God's Word. We just need
Speaker 2: members who brothers and sisters in Christ who have decided
Speaker 2: to covenant. We use that language of covenant with one
Speaker 2: another because we think that's what's happening there in church.
Speaker 2: Membership is the desire to be held accountable by other
Speaker 2: people and desire to hold other people accountable and basically
Speaker 2: signing up and saying I want you to speak into
Speaker 2: my life and I want to speak into your life,
Speaker 2: and we need to walk this Christian life together because
Speaker 2: we weren't made to walk this as individuals. It's not
Speaker 2: just me and Jesus. We said in a sermon somewhat
Speaker 2: recently that when when Jesus saved you, it wasn't just
Speaker 2: you and him. He saved you into a family. He
Speaker 2: saved you. You get Jesus and his bride the church,
Speaker 2: so you can you can't say I want Jesus but
Speaker 2: reject his bride, like you can't be my friend. If
Speaker 2: you're gonna say I hate your wife, Yeah, it's not
Speaker 2: gonna work. And so we take membership seriously because it
Speaker 2: is something that we see in scripture. Just assumed there's
Speaker 2: a lot going on in scripture where it's assumed that
Speaker 2: these people have covenanted with other believers in local congregations
Speaker 2: in their towns and are helping one another follow Jesus.
Speaker 2: I mean, you see it all over First Corinthians five.
Speaker 2: You have some wording of assuming there's some sort of
Speaker 2: accounting of who is part of the church when it
Speaker 2: comes to church discipline. Case Hebrews three thirteen one another,
Speaker 2: so long as it's called today, so lest any of
Speaker 2: you be deceived by the deceitfulness of your own heart.
Speaker 2: And so there's the push of if I am left
Speaker 2: to just me and Jesus, I will not follow Jesus.
Speaker 2: I'm going to follow my own way, and so I
Speaker 2: need other people around me. And so the question is, well,
Speaker 2: who do I have around me? Well, the people who
Speaker 2: have asked to come around me by joining this local church.
Speaker 2: And so not only do we see it as something
Speaker 2: that's assumed in scripture, just makes sense when it comes
Speaker 2: when you see how God has called us to live
Speaker 2: the Christian life, especially when it comes to the one
Speaker 2: Another passages. There's over sixty one another passages that you
Speaker 2: can't do on your own, and most of them you
Speaker 2: can't do unless somebody else has invited you in to
Speaker 2: do those things, and we see those things lived out
Speaker 2: in the local church.
Speaker 1: And so what to the person that says, well, I
Speaker 1: am a member, meaning I show up every Sunday. I
Speaker 1: don't know the pastor personally, and I don't really talk
Speaker 1: to that many people, but I consider myself a member,
Speaker 1: meaning I should just show up most Sundays.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's more of a consumeristic mindset, right, Like,
Speaker 2: I'm a member here because of the things I can
Speaker 2: receive from this. I like the preaching, so I receive that.
Speaker 2: I like the music, so I receive that. I like
Speaker 2: the size of this church, so I receive that. I
Speaker 2: like the fact that I can get in and out
Speaker 2: not have to really talk to anybody because I'm more introverted.
Speaker 1: I like this.
Speaker 2: So then that's everything you're receiving. Whereas what we see
Speaker 2: in scripture is the life of the Christian is what
Speaker 2: you can how you can care for other people. You know,
Speaker 2: ax who's a.
Speaker 1: Good example of this.
Speaker 2: They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and to prayer
Speaker 2: and breaking of bread and being in one another's homes,
Speaker 2: and then they made sure that nobody had lack of
Speaker 2: anything again not meaning that they had to give up
Speaker 2: everything and everybody had to live poor, but there was
Speaker 2: a sense of they're making sure other people are cared for.
Speaker 2: And so the mentality is not what is this church
Speaker 2: offering me? But it's as long as this church is
Speaker 2: offered me good gospel, solid teaching, where the scriptures are
Speaker 2: regularly opened and preached, then I just need to be here,
Speaker 2: and I need to pour into other people's lives and
Speaker 2: trusting that I will have my life. The other people
Speaker 2: will't pour into my life at this time same time.
Speaker 2: And so church is not about what you can get
Speaker 2: out of it, It's about Christ. And so if it's
Speaker 2: about Christ, then all I want to make sure is
Speaker 2: is He being proclaimed? Is He being exalted? Is He
Speaker 2: being treasured? And is this church seeking to do that
Speaker 2: together and hold one another accountable in that? And you
Speaker 2: mentioned something about they don't know the pastors. I think
Speaker 2: that's absolutely vital to church. Being a church member is
Speaker 2: you have to know your pastors, and your pastors have
Speaker 2: to know you. If you're going to a church where
Speaker 2: you don't have access to your pastors, I think that's
Speaker 2: that's harmful to your soul. I mean, they're giving watch
Speaker 2: over your soul, so they need to know you. You
Speaker 2: need to be known by those who have oversight over
Speaker 2: your soul. And so if you find yourself in a
Speaker 2: church like that, I'm not going to say your church
Speaker 2: is unbiblical or you should immediately leave. I think you
Speaker 2: should try to get to know your pastors. But if
Speaker 2: it is a situation where they are just impossible to
Speaker 2: get in touch with, there may be a chance the
Speaker 2: church may be too big. I know that sounds crazy
Speaker 2: in today's culture. What do you mean the church is
Speaker 2: too big? Is that possible We can chase that later
Speaker 2: or something. But the church might be too big, or
Speaker 2: I hate to say it, maybe the brother's not cut
Speaker 2: out to be a pastor. I've heard it said a
Speaker 2: ton of times that people really don't care how much
Speaker 2: you know until they know how much you care. And
Speaker 2: I think that's true. Your people need to know you
Speaker 2: as a pastor.
Speaker 1: And let me jump in real quick for people listening,
Speaker 1: going easily said by a pastor. Yeah, but the way
Speaker 1: that our church is set up is that we have
Speaker 1: elders and Marshall Marshall is another one of the elders. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: And so he's not saying I'm the guy. He's saying,
Speaker 1: I'm one of the guys that have been appointed as
Speaker 1: a shepherd for the sheep. And we see over and
Speaker 1: over in scripture the analogy of sheep and shepherd. So
Speaker 1: can you imagine back to the conversation of not knowing
Speaker 1: your pastor can you a shepherd not knowing one of
Speaker 1: a sheep, and then the sheep either escapes or gets
Speaker 1: out of the fence, or like, we have a couple
Speaker 1: of goats here. I know these goats very well, and
Speaker 1: they know me very well. And if one day one
Speaker 1: of them I only have two, it's maybe a bad analogy.
Speaker 1: But if I had many, I would know if one
Speaker 1: of them was gone, and it had its head stuck
Speaker 1: in the fence on the other side of the pasture,
Speaker 1: or it had gotten its foot stuck somewhere, I would know,
Speaker 1: and that sheep or goat would know that I'm coming
Speaker 1: for it. So can you imagine that analogy? Not now
Speaker 1: put that on top of this idea of not knowing
Speaker 1: or having a relationship with an elder or a pastor,
Speaker 1: however your church defines it, that would be strange and
Speaker 1: in many ways unhealthy to both you and the elder,
Speaker 1: and so I think that's what Marshall's getting at. Marshall's
Speaker 1: not saying you have to be like me to be
Speaker 1: a pastor, a guy that really cares. It's really not
Speaker 1: that at all. This is it's a system. It's very
Speaker 1: much a system. And so yeah, we need to probably
Speaker 1: set up on this podcast. I know there are a lot
Speaker 1: of people listening, and a major question that comes in
Speaker 1: quite a bit is well, where do I find a
Speaker 1: church like this? Yeah, So I just know that Marshall
Speaker 1: and I have had conversations offline about this that maybe
Speaker 1: will work in the future about setting some kind of
Speaker 1: some kind of resource up for people to be able
Speaker 1: to quickly go to. And I know we have listeners
Speaker 1: everywhere that you could look and then pastors, I know
Speaker 1: pastors listen to this. Then pastors could talk to us
Speaker 1: about being part of that network. So yeah, we're working
Speaker 1: on these kind of things. Yeah, so important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the echo Granger, I'm not saying you need
Speaker 2: if you have five pastors at your church, you need
Speaker 2: to know all five equally the same. That's not what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. I'm saying you should at least have access
Speaker 2: to the pastors now if you have one one guy
Speaker 2: of those five who's not accessible to anybody, and I
Speaker 2: think that's a problem. But because I think just the
Speaker 2: pick sure of shepherding in Scripture is this idea of
Speaker 2: you don't shepherd from above, you shepherd from among. The
Speaker 2: shepherd needs to smell like the sheep, right, I mean
Speaker 2: Acts twenty Paul's talking to the Ephesian elders and he says,
Speaker 2: pay careful attention to all the flock that you're over,
Speaker 2: and so there's a sense of, Hey, these these elders
Speaker 2: in Ephesus have been charged to know all of their flock.
Speaker 2: So even if you don't know all of your elders, well,
Speaker 2: your elders should at least be able to know you
Speaker 2: spiritually to some degree. And so there's that sense of
Speaker 2: I think we have to ask ourselves as church members
Speaker 2: because yes, I'm a pastor, but I'm still a church
Speaker 2: member too, So our other elders are other pastors, and
Speaker 2: we're using pastor elders. They're the same term in Scripture,
Speaker 2: and so they're pastoring me. It's not like I'm kind
Speaker 2: of the head honcho guy who just does everything and
Speaker 2: knows everything that they they'll correct me, they'll encourage me,
Speaker 2: they'll they'll shepherd me. And so I'm not some just higher,
Speaker 2: I'm more spiritual than you are. It's just this is
Speaker 2: this is the place where God has me right now.
Speaker 2: That was affirmed by our congregation. So I am a
Speaker 2: pastor of our church. I'm not a pastor overall. I
Speaker 2: can't just go to another church and I'm automatically a pastor.
Speaker 2: That church would have to affirm me as a pastor.
Speaker 2: If that's what the Lord had.
Speaker 1: So good and what we're talking about here is is
Speaker 1: just so important. And I don't think it's talked about
Speaker 1: a lot, but I get the I know it's important
Speaker 1: because I get the emails all the time of how
Speaker 1: do I get closer to God? How do I get
Speaker 1: how do I increase my faith? How do I know
Speaker 1: I'm saved? There's all kinds of questions like that that
Speaker 1: the answer typically is are you part of a church?
Speaker 1: Are you Are you part of a church where you
Speaker 1: have access to the elders, where you're being You're you're
Speaker 1: walking with the other sheep, You're walking with God's people.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's crazy, especially in the Covid age, when
Speaker 1: we have kind of broken off into this idea that
Speaker 1: I can get fed online with online church or arise
Speaker 1: with the Amber or the Granger Smith podcast. I could.
Speaker 1: I'm fine, Like my spiritual nourishment is great because I
Speaker 1: watch Billy Graham on YouTube and we're here saying that
Speaker 1: the Book of Hebrews is saying don't neglect the gathering,
Speaker 1: because there is something about us gathering in person around
Speaker 1: each other physically, not online, that is that is building
Speaker 1: you up spiritually, and if you're not, it's actually tearing
Speaker 1: you down spiritually, making you spiritually sick if you're not
Speaker 1: around God's people. And so a lot of these questions
Speaker 1: I could just say, are you around God's people? Are
Speaker 1: you gathering weekly with them? And and and here, man,
Speaker 1: I'm getting this get a little long. I'm sorry. It's
Speaker 1: a fascinating topic and we should talk more about it.
Speaker 1: But what we're not saying to there's a lot of
Speaker 1: things we're not saying, And one of the things we're
Speaker 1: not saying is being involved. Like there's a this idea
Speaker 1: of how do I become more involved in my church?
Speaker 1: This is such a common question, and what we're not
Speaker 1: saying is, well, that means you need to be part
Speaker 1: of the softball team, the men's softball team. That means
Speaker 1: you need to be part of the potluck breakfast on Thursdays.
Speaker 1: That needs to be you need to be part of
Speaker 1: this and this and this, and you need to be
Speaker 1: part of the It's like, that's not what we mean
Speaker 1: in being more involved. Like more involvement doesn't mean you're
Speaker 1: a better Christian or higher spiritually on the hierarchy. In fact,
Speaker 1: means you might just be a little more burn out
Speaker 1: by Sunday morning. You might just be burnt out. And
Speaker 1: so that's that's not what we mean by become more involved.
Speaker 2: I mean one of the things when we tell people
Speaker 2: when they join the church is one of the most
Speaker 2: common questions we get is great, where going I serve?
Speaker 2: Where's the most need for service at the church. And
Speaker 2: we always tell people, hey, you'll probably get asked to
Speaker 2: serve somewhere. We don't know where that is yet, But
Speaker 2: your main focus for the first three to six months
Speaker 2: should be just getting to know the congregation. So have
Speaker 2: people over to your house for dinner, get together with
Speaker 2: people for lunch.
Speaker 1: Imagine, go have coffee with people.
Speaker 2: Get to know these brothers and sisters that you're covenanting
Speaker 2: with in membership so that they can hold you accountable,
Speaker 2: so you can hold them accountable. Again, doesn't mean you
Speaker 2: have to know everybody to the same extent and depth,
Speaker 2: but there is a sense of I'm responsible as a
Speaker 2: church member for everybody in this church that I've covenanted
Speaker 2: with and desired to come alongside in this And so
Speaker 2: the best way you can serve the church is what
Speaker 2: we tell people, is just getting to know the church
Speaker 2: and to love the church. And then in that we
Speaker 2: might ask you to serve on a team, or join
Speaker 2: the softball team, or go to the potluck on Thursday mornings,
Speaker 2: whatever it might be. But the first and most important
Speaker 2: thing you can do is get to know the church.
Speaker 2: Because if we had nothing else, if we didn't have
Speaker 2: the softball team, if we didn't have the breakfast, if
Speaker 2: we didn't have the Bible studies, and we just had
Speaker 2: Sunday morning, the most important thing you need to do
Speaker 2: is that you would know the church. And so we
Speaker 2: need to prioritize that, and then the other stuff can
Speaker 2: come along and help with that and equip you to
Speaker 2: do that better. But that doesn't supplement or that doesn't
Speaker 2: that doesn't take away from you needing to do those
Speaker 2: things so good.
Speaker 1: We haven't even brought up Lord Supper. We haven't even
Speaker 1: brought up singing, worshiping together. But let me say one
Speaker 1: more thing, and I'm so sorry this is getting along.
Speaker 1: We probably should have a conversation like this again because
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'll get emails about it. But here's another thing,
Speaker 1: and this is this is what's going on with the
Speaker 1: listeners right now. They're thinking a lot of people are thinking, well,
Speaker 1: that's great, Marshall Granger, that's cool. You're saying that that
Speaker 1: we need to we need to know our pastors. But
Speaker 1: our church is awesome because what we do is we
Speaker 1: we have small groups and that accomplishes that that for you.
Speaker 1: So I don't know my pastor personally or the elders personally,
Speaker 1: that's okay because we have small groups and that's where
Speaker 1: we actually grow, that's where we get discipled. What do
Speaker 1: you say to that.
Speaker 2: I would say, I need another episode for that. That's
Speaker 2: a long thing.
Speaker 1: Give me the short answer, because I know that's a
Speaker 1: major thing going on. Yeah.
Speaker 2: My pushback against that would be, you're essentially turning your
Speaker 2: small group into your church. Then you don't find small
Speaker 2: group anywhere in scripture. Now, that doesn't mean getting together
Speaker 2: in small groups is wrong and you shouldn't do it.
Speaker 2: We actually encourage people to get together in smaller groups
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. But if the church is leaning
Speaker 2: on that, or you're leaning on that in order to
Speaker 2: be known and to live out the one in the
Speaker 2: other passages, you're kind of short changing what Jesus has
Speaker 2: commanded of you as a Christian because you're now saying, well,
Speaker 2: I really only have to do these things with these
Speaker 2: fifteen people. That's not what Jesus has called you to
Speaker 2: do as a member of a church. He's called you
Speaker 2: to do that to the entire congregation. I mean, you
Speaker 2: don't want your pastor to say, well, you know, I
Speaker 2: really only pastor the fifteen people in my small group,
Speaker 2: and hopefully your small group's doing okay, and you're gonna
Speaker 2: make it like that's not what you want. You want
Speaker 2: your Again, we want to push for pastors to know
Speaker 2: their congregation. We want people to multiple people in their congregations. So,
Speaker 2: and this is not to say that our.
Speaker 1: Church is perfect.
Speaker 2: We know things like we have the most amazing church.
Speaker 2: We are constantly trying to improve on how we do
Speaker 2: things because we know we can be doing things better,
Speaker 2: and we're always thinking through stuff. But there is this
Speaker 2: sense of the reality we see in scripture is the
Speaker 2: church as a whole knows the church as a whole.
Speaker 2: There's not this smaller group becoming your sense of identity
Speaker 2: as a Christian. Again, we do need to be in
Speaker 2: smaller So like I'm closer with certain people in the
Speaker 2: church the I am with other people. That doesn't mean
Speaker 2: I don't that I love them differently. You can't know
Speaker 2: everybody to the same depth and level. But there is
Speaker 2: this sense of we're hoping all of our members have
Speaker 2: the desire and heart to know more than just a
Speaker 2: dozen people. And so that's kind of what we're pushing.
Speaker 2: And so if you are leaning solely on your small
Speaker 2: group for that, I would encourage you to go to
Speaker 2: a different small group or get out a small group
Speaker 2: and utilize Sometimes it's like, well, we have small group
Speaker 2: every Tuesday night, and then we got kids soccer on
Speaker 2: Monday night, and then we got Bible studying on Wins
Speaker 2: and I'm running out of nights. It maybe will get
Speaker 2: out a small group and use the Tuesday nights that
Speaker 2: you had for a small group to invite a new
Speaker 2: family from the church over for dinner. So again, you're
Speaker 2: just gonna do a new family every week, and Tuesday
Speaker 2: nights are just church family night where you're gonna have
Speaker 2: a new family or two families over. That's one thing
Speaker 2: we've tried to do in our house is have multiple
Speaker 2: families over at once. So you're also helping other people connect.
Speaker 2: And it's not just because one thing we don't want
Speaker 2: people I got invited the pastor's house for dinner. Like,
Speaker 2: we don't cook special food, we don't have special conversation.
Speaker 2: We just we're gonna love you as a church member.
Speaker 2: And so that would be my encouragement is don't lean
Speaker 2: on your small group for that.
Speaker 1: Because it also opens up a night that you could
Speaker 1: evangelize to other neighbors.
Speaker 2: That are And so yeah, again there's a lot more
Speaker 2: I get saying on that. We just we just talked
Speaker 2: to our entire church about this and spent multiple hours
Speaker 2: talking through it over multiple q and as and stuff,
Speaker 2: and so it's a much longer thing to talk through.
Speaker 2: But essentially, don't lean on your small group to be
Speaker 2: your church. That's not what scriptures called you to do.
Speaker 1: I also want to say. This is not we're not advocating.
Speaker 1: We're not saying come to a Maist church in georgetowntown.
Speaker 1: What we're saying is there's probably somebody in your town,
Speaker 1: wherever you are, that thinks the same way. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a pretty good chance. Look at that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just literally pulled up the next question. It says,
Speaker 1: Hello Grandeur, my name is Marina. I'm from Brazil, and
Speaker 1: I like to say always listen to your podcast and
Speaker 1: your music. I was born into a Catholic home and
Speaker 1: a very loving home. My question is this, how do
Speaker 1: I get closer to God? That's his question. Sometimes it
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like he's listening to me. Greetings from Brazil, Marina.
Speaker 1: So there you go. I'm not even we don't have
Speaker 1: to answer that question because I believe we just did.
Speaker 1: And Marshall would say, get closer to God's people would
Speaker 1: be being closer to God himself. We don't have a
Speaker 1: lot of time. But here's another one. Here's a subjectline.
Speaker 1: It says scary Bible verses. That sounds fun. It's getting
Speaker 1: kind of close to October. You know, Hey, Granger, thanks
Speaker 1: for taking my email. I've been a longtime follower of Jesus.
Speaker 1: But there are two verses in the Bible that contradict
Speaker 1: each other, and one honestly scares the crap out of me.
Speaker 1: Can you please help me understand them better? And the
Speaker 1: first one is this, for everyone who calls on the
Speaker 1: name of the Lord will be saved Romans ten thirteen.
Speaker 1: And the second one is this, Not everyone who calls
Speaker 1: out to me, Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven.
Speaker 1: Only those who actually do the will of My Father
Speaker 1: and Heaven will enter. Matthew seven twenty one. Thanks, I'll
Speaker 1: look forward to hearing your thoughts. Please come to Minnesota
Speaker 1: to preach soon. This comes from Carl. Thanks for the email. Carl,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, brother, and I think it's a good question.
Speaker 1: And Matthew seven to twenty one is I agree with
Speaker 1: you what I think is probably the scariest verse in
Speaker 1: the entire Bible. I think there is a lot of
Speaker 1: people that would agree. John MacArthur, the older pastor, started
Speaker 1: his career some sixty years ago in his church preaching
Speaker 1: that passage expositionally the very first time you ever preached.
Speaker 1: Because it's it's not only scary, but it's also very
Speaker 1: important and not a lot of time. But let's start
Speaker 1: with the let's start with the first idea that you
Speaker 1: kind of brought Carl, which, by the way, appreciate you brother,
Speaker 1: thank you for the email, and thank you for really
Speaker 1: walking through some some stuff that I think it's worth
Speaker 1: talking about. But the first thing you said was two
Speaker 1: verses that contradict each other. So so Marshall that that
Speaker 1: come That word contradict comes up a lot, and it's
Speaker 1: probably thrown out because it's it's a good it's a
Speaker 1: good defense of atheism to say, well, the Bible contradicts itself.
Speaker 1: I don't read it because it contradicts itself, and say
Speaker 1: things like well, it never contradicts itself. It's just a
Speaker 1: misunderstanding of it in context. And those two arguments just
Speaker 1: kind of rub the wrong way. But maybe it's more
Speaker 1: important to understand what contradiction means. A contradiction would mean that, well,
Speaker 1: I'm talked about this. A contradiction would mean that two
Speaker 1: opposing ideas are so opposite of each other that there
Speaker 1: cannot be any way that they could ever agree. There's
Speaker 1: no scenario on any side of the of the two
Speaker 1: opposing forces. There's no possible scenario you could ever think
Speaker 1: where they could possibly work together that is in fact
Speaker 1: a true contradiction. It's very difficult to have a true contradiction.
Speaker 1: And the same works with scripture and anything you think
Speaker 1: contradicts itself. We could sit together for five minutes and go, well,
Speaker 1: I could, I could could think of one way that
Speaker 1: it could be not a contradiction, and so I would.
Speaker 1: I would kind of, I would kind of counsel a
Speaker 1: way from using that word. And I think, what And
Speaker 1: you didn't mean it that way. You didn't mean it
Speaker 1: from like an atheistic perspective. What you meant to say
Speaker 1: was these two verses, they don't sound like they go together.
Speaker 1: Can you help me with it? And I would to that,
Speaker 1: I would say absolutely, And it's it's perfectly fine for
Speaker 1: any of us, Marshall included to say, I don't really know,
Speaker 1: I don't really know how that works together. But this
Speaker 1: specific one we can, we can we can dig into
Speaker 1: what do you say this we got in like four minutes.
Speaker 1: Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will
Speaker 1: be saved great Amen versus not. Everyone who calls out
Speaker 1: to me Lord Lord will enter the kingom of Heaven.
Speaker 1: Amen to both of those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that first text is talking about
Speaker 2: calling out on the name of the Lord for salvation.
Speaker 2: So it's all those who who call out to Jesus
Speaker 2: to save them from their sins, recognizing he is the
Speaker 2: only they can be saved from their sins. There's nothing
Speaker 2: they can do, there's no action they could do, there's
Speaker 2: no no church, nothing the church could tell them to
Speaker 2: do that would that would cause them to be saved
Speaker 2: or secure their salvation. It's all those who are calling
Speaker 2: on the name of Jesus alone for their salvation. That
Speaker 2: that's that text. That's so that is absolutely true. And
Speaker 2: so there's a difference between calling on the name of
Speaker 2: the Lord for salvation and then calling out to the
Speaker 2: Lord and on the last Day and saying hey Lord,
Speaker 2: because if you keep reading that, it's Lord, Lord, didn't
Speaker 2: we do all these things like look at look at
Speaker 2: our track list, look at my resume? Didn't I do
Speaker 2: all these things? And he's saying, yeah, but I don't
Speaker 2: know you because you didn't call out on the name
Speaker 2: of Jesus. You leaned on all this other stuff. You're
Speaker 2: basically telling me to look at you and and aren't
Speaker 2: you good enough to get in here, and he's saying, no,
Speaker 2: you could do everything, all these you could have hundreds
Speaker 2: thousands of good things you've done. But if that's what
Speaker 2: you're leaning on for me to accept you on the
Speaker 2: last day, then then then it's a fool's erin because
Speaker 2: only the name of Jesus will save you. Yep, only
Speaker 2: you trusting in Jesus. So those things aren't contradictory, those
Speaker 2: things are They They actually work together really well by
Speaker 2: saying you can only be saved by calling out on
Speaker 2: the name of Jesus alone, nothing else, just just Jesus
Speaker 2: can save you. But at the same time, there will
Speaker 2: be people on the last Day when they're when they're
Speaker 2: facing God for judgment, and he's gonna he's gonna basically
Speaker 2: count them as unrighteous, and they're gonna say, but but Lord,
Speaker 2: I never denied that you existed. I never denied that
Speaker 2: there was a God. I'm not an atheist. And look
Speaker 2: I did. I went to church, I served on the
Speaker 2: on the the hospitality team.
Speaker 1: And I was even a greeter.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I was there you know most Sundays. And
Speaker 2: and I haven't told people about Jesus. And and he's saying,
Speaker 2: but are you leaning on my son's name alone to
Speaker 2: make you right before me. And if you were, were
Speaker 2: you obeying him? So really, when we stand before the Lord,
Speaker 2: it's not look at all these things I've done. It's God,
Speaker 2: Please don't look at anything I've done. Yeah, only looked
Speaker 2: at what Christ has done. That's what's Calling on the
Speaker 2: name of the Lord looks like, yeah, is God. Pretend
Speaker 2: that you don't see me, see Jesus. See Jesus and me.
Speaker 1: That's so good.
Speaker 2: That's both of those working together there, Carl.
Speaker 1: You could put a gun to someone's head and say
Speaker 1: call on the name of the Lord and you'll be saved,
Speaker 1: and they'll be like, the Lord, Yeah, you know, it's
Speaker 1: so Obviously that's not what Paul means in Romans ten
Speaker 1: thirteen that anybody of any kind of person that just
Speaker 1: randomly says Lord, that's not what he means. Obviously, it
Speaker 1: doesn't take too much rational thought just to go of everyone.
Speaker 1: Those will be the people that are saved. If you're saved,
Speaker 1: you will call. So that's what Marshall's saying. We're saying,
Speaker 1: don't look at me, don't look at my track record,
Speaker 1: look to Jesus. And I think that's a great way
Speaker 1: to end this episode. Yeah, comment blow if you want
Speaker 1: more in Marshall, I do for sure. I appreciate you
Speaker 1: so much man, No, thank you.
Speaker 2: This is fun.
Speaker 1: Man. I constantly y'all that hear you, hear me talking.
Speaker 1: I'm constantly learning from Marshall day by day and h
Speaker 1: And if you have a question maybe about your local
Speaker 1: church or where to find one, stay engaged, stay in
Speaker 1: touch with us, and we will Marshall with your Instagram.
Speaker 2: Sorry Canalis Marshall so C A N A L E.
Speaker 1: S and Marshall look for us. Stay engaged. But we'll
Speaker 1: have some kind of better idea of how to direct
Speaker 1: people to churches. But that's something we'll continue to talk about.
Speaker 1: And sorry, I didn't get to a whole lot of
Speaker 1: questions today, but but I appreciate all of y'all that did,
Speaker 1: and I love you. We'll see you next Monday. Thanks
Speaker 1: for joining me on the Grangersmith podcast. I appreciate all
Speaker 1: of you guys. You could help me out by rating
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Speaker 1: If you have a question for me that you would
Speaker 1: like me to answer. Email Grangersmith Podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Yi