Speaker 1: This episode of Playback is brought to you by Warner Brothers.
Speaker 1: A Star is Born. As we talk about important films
Speaker 1: of this past year, this one is top of mind,
Speaker 1: emotionally resonating with critics and audiences. The film's director, Bradley
Speaker 1: Cooper is being recognized for his brilliant work as a
Speaker 1: filmmaker and actor, along with his cast Lady Gaga and
Speaker 1: Sam Elliott for their stunning performances. Varieties Film critic Owen
Speaker 1: Gliberman has called the film a total emotional knockout, and
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Times critic Justin Chang said, from the first frame,
Speaker 1: it casts a spell, the kind that lets you know
Speaker 1: immediately that you're in good hands. A star is born
Speaker 1: for your consideration in all categories. You're listening to Playback
Speaker 1: a Variety I Heart radio podcast. I'm your host, Variety
Speaker 1: Awards editor Chris Tapley. This week, I'm talking to the
Speaker 1: stars of Adam McKay's Vie, Christian Bale and Sam Rockwell.
Speaker 1: The two star as former Vice President and former President
Speaker 1: Dick Cheney and George W. Bush, respectively. In the film,
Speaker 1: we talked about early days, getting their start and acting,
Speaker 1: separating personal political beliefs from playing these characters and a
Speaker 1: whole lot more. It's a pretty awesome and lively conversation.
Speaker 1: I think you'll enjoy it. So sit tight. This is
Speaker 1: playback shape. This gentle into looking pretty good yourself. Handerson,
Speaker 1: who what it was before? But you look like you
Speaker 1: can go do so dislay right now. I'm hanging in there.
Speaker 1: I just put on that table behind you, circus. Okay,
Speaker 1: we just want a clear table, Howard Port Is that
Speaker 1: really No, it's not the end of the world, is it?
Speaker 1: Go on, I'll do it for you. I just wanted
Speaker 1: to hear that I'm giving after just I just wanted
Speaker 1: to make a stand a little bits the iPhone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no place being at the table. But what you're
Speaker 1: doing photos are we're talking right now. I really want
Speaker 1: to tell you about it, but you know about oh man,
Speaker 1: I just you know. I can't believe. But that's that
Speaker 1: might be the funniest thing about this. It's almost like
Speaker 1: you guys do this for a living, not this, not this.
Speaker 1: Nobody gives you training in this, do they. It's like
Speaker 1: you do well, I didn't take training in any of it,
Speaker 1: but you do that not being the screen. Yes you
Speaker 1: go yeah, I don't do this. I wonder if they
Speaker 1: should do that. We've got to have people that are like,
Speaker 1: come in and what do they call media training or
Speaker 1: something like that. I just teach you how to be
Speaker 1: around media or something like that. I don't know. Thanks dude, Thanks, thanks,
Speaker 1: You guys are good like that. I think directional mix YadA, YadA, YadA,
Speaker 1: YadA YadA. And thanks again for coming on. We're rolling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just swimming on me. I have a watch, but
Speaker 1: I just that's why I always do now. I like
Speaker 1: a watch. But you know, it's not a necessity, you know,
Speaker 1: it was, it's it's a gift. It was a gift.
Speaker 1: We're here everyone with as they're talking about their their
Speaker 1: timekeeping practices. We're here with Christian Bale and Sam Rockwell,
Speaker 1: stars of Adam McKay's vice, Bush and Cheney themselves. Thanks
Speaker 1: again for coming back on the show Man for having me.
Speaker 1: I thought it would be interesting to really have you
Speaker 1: two together, because first of all, when did you guys meet?
Speaker 1: How long ago? Years ago? Yeah, we were in Italy
Speaker 1: something like that, Italy and a villa, having a wonderful
Speaker 1: time getting paid nothing. We got paid in wine, remember,
Speaker 1: But you were on a strict diet. You were eating
Speaker 1: those skinless chickens. That's because I had been. I was
Speaker 1: kicked off of American Psycho, but I just refused to
Speaker 1: accept that I wasn't going to make it. So I
Speaker 1: was still getting ready for you, even though all of
Speaker 1: a stone in the camp you were already kicked off
Speaker 1: and you you were still prepping. What that doesn't What
Speaker 1: do you mean because I've insane? Man? You were just
Speaker 1: like still doing it. Yes, I remember we were all
Speaker 1: eating pasta and you were. You had these like I
Speaker 1: was eating like hardly anything that sticking to the diet
Speaker 1: and all that. And I was calling Mary Harron and
Speaker 1: she'd be on holiday and she'd be going, Christian, please,
Speaker 1: can you just give it up? And I'll go, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not giving it up. It's look at that. And
Speaker 1: then he did and eventually it came back around. But
Speaker 1: you know, during that time, I was actually kicked off
Speaker 1: the Bloody Project. During the during while we're in Italy.
Speaker 1: What's the context here? What the context is? So it
Speaker 1: made me some of the streams together in Italy and
Speaker 1: they paid us in crates a wine they would they
Speaker 1: would deliver. We all lived in one villa. It was
Speaker 1: kind of active who was in that house and Kevin
Speaker 1: Clins in a separate David Streuth, the Sessions, John Session, John, Yeah,
Speaker 1: John Sessions, who's hilarious. Um, a bunch of people and
Speaker 1: a frel and a freel man. Yeah yeah. And in
Speaker 1: the West we're all living together in a villa. And
Speaker 1: what they said to us is, we can't pay you anything,
Speaker 1: but you'll live very nicely, which meant we will deliver
Speaker 1: regular crates of wine to you. And they did that
Speaker 1: good good food. Yeah, and so doing that. And at
Speaker 1: the same time, I've been kicked off of American Psycho
Speaker 1: after having done like age readings and whatnot and raising
Speaker 1: the financing with Mary. But then the finances had come
Speaker 1: on and said yeah, we'll fund it, just not with you. Guys.
Speaker 1: We got kicked off, and I just kept on saying
Speaker 1: myself the power of denial. And you found out I
Speaker 1: said that. I said, I'm still making this film. I
Speaker 1: don't care what they're saying. I'm still prepping. So I
Speaker 1: just kept prepping as though it was going to happen.
Speaker 1: Mary was telling me please please stop calling her because
Speaker 1: like we're off the film. But then love the whole
Speaker 1: look at that. It all came back around funny. For
Speaker 1: some reason, I thought you went back further than that,
Speaker 1: Like did you ever cross paths? Like you know, that's
Speaker 1: the first time I remember. Yeah, I just remember, like
Speaker 1: doing that play in front of you guys. Yeah, But
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know. I don't know if we
Speaker 1: did or nothing, like probably did somewhere like like the
Speaker 1: auditions or anything like that, like you might. I didn't
Speaker 1: know if they it went back that far or not.
Speaker 1: But oh, I don't know. I can't remember that. You might.
Speaker 1: We might have wronged in different you might have been
Speaker 1: were you in l A? And I was so I'm
Speaker 1: always so bad. I was always so Thank god I
Speaker 1: don't have to do auditions anymore. I was always so
Speaker 1: bad at auditions. I've never really engaged with anyone in
Speaker 1: the hallway waiting because I was just busy banging my
Speaker 1: head against the wall trying to get myself to stay,
Speaker 1: knowing I was about to give the worst performance ever.
Speaker 1: I was standing that whenever I was doing an audition,
Speaker 1: the director if they did cast me, which was rare,
Speaker 1: but when they did, they would say, you were really
Speaker 1: bad in the audition. But the conversation suggested you might
Speaker 1: get it together by the time we actually film, because
Speaker 1: I don't know how to audition. It's nothing like actually
Speaker 1: making a film. There's nothing like it. It's a different muscle,
Speaker 1: totally different. And some people do that brilliantly, and then
Speaker 1: they get on set and you go, oh what happened.
Speaker 1: Other people can't audition, but you get them on set
Speaker 1: and you go, oh, yeah, that's it. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: totally different muscle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I wanted to
Speaker 1: go back because the way you both broke in in
Speaker 1: TV and also on the TV movie Anastasia, and then
Speaker 1: with you you were you were doing Equalizer and stuff
Speaker 1: like this. What would Yeah, no, yes, that's right, what would?
Speaker 1: I used to love watching that. John Gilgai said his
Speaker 1: name was like a fart in the bath, breaking Moran.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Wow. But yeah, you know, just at
Speaker 1: that time, it means late eighties, mid mid eighties for
Speaker 1: you breaking in in the TV world. I just wanted
Speaker 1: to kind of get your two separate experiences with that.
Speaker 1: And then you go off you work with you know, Spielberg,
Speaker 1: and you work with Christopher Lee. You did TV before that,
Speaker 1: you did the TV film I did were The first
Speaker 1: thing I did was comedy in the West End with
Speaker 1: Brown Atkinson. You're other than doing like commercial under the
Speaker 1: commercial when I got a pair of d ms and
Speaker 1: a rubic snake of it, and then I got a
Speaker 1: job working in the West End doing a Ron Atkinson company.
Speaker 1: That's great. So you were a kid, I was. We
Speaker 1: were both kids on stage. Yeah, that's that's interesting. Another.
Speaker 1: I mean, you probably don't have another obviously don't have
Speaker 1: a different context, but starting the career that young, especially you,
Speaker 1: But you know, what do you think that did to
Speaker 1: you as an actor? What did did it? Is? Is
Speaker 1: it like baked into who you are even more because
Speaker 1: you got started so early, or you know what do
Speaker 1: you think I think it makes you? I mean, I
Speaker 1: think it makes like Chris Walkin was a stage kid.
Speaker 1: I think it makes you I was. I was. He
Speaker 1: was like song and dance kids, and he had a
Speaker 1: stage mom and his brother. And I think it makes
Speaker 1: you a little bit like I mean, we've talked about
Speaker 1: it a little bit, and it makes you a little
Speaker 1: like feel like an alien a little bit. I don't
Speaker 1: know about you, but I feel a little I think
Speaker 1: it because you see stuff at an early a age,
Speaker 1: you know, like Bob Fosse who you know, and I
Speaker 1: think you you you sort of get you have to
Speaker 1: grow up a little quicker. I don't know what your experiences,
Speaker 1: but that's kind of my I feel a little. I
Speaker 1: would feel a little bit odd when I went back
Speaker 1: to school to a normal life with kids, because I'd
Speaker 1: seen adult stuff. You know, it's been at the circus,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's it's it's interesting. I didn't do films.
Speaker 1: He did films, but my mom was in the circus.
Speaker 1: My mom was a circus performer. Really yeah, he's serious.
Speaker 1: And I would go watch her and do all that
Speaker 1: and should be a clown and elephants and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and so I'd see that. But then I had a
Speaker 1: family member fool very ill and right at that moment.
Speaker 1: My sister was actually the one who was into acting
Speaker 1: and interested in it in theater and whatnot. But we
Speaker 1: only had one car, so I would always have to
Speaker 1: drag along with her. And I was always, oh god,
Speaker 1: I've got going on whatever she's doing. I'll be sitting around,
Speaker 1: you know whatever amateur thing backstage. And they said to me,
Speaker 1: how about you try. You're right for this role. So
Speaker 1: I started doing it, and it suddenly got offered money.
Speaker 1: My family needed that money because remember was ill and
Speaker 1: we were we were having a lot of archer we
Speaker 1: were going to move around, I staying at different people's
Speaker 1: houses and stuff, and so it became that that was
Speaker 1: the intro for me was oh, bloody l it's as
Speaker 1: the breadwinner because and that was burning. So I hated it.
Speaker 1: I did it, but I hated and then I was
Speaker 1: just talking about this, actually about and then and then realizing,
Speaker 1: but look, this might give me opportunities I've never dreamed
Speaker 1: of and travel and etcetera and all that and uh,
Speaker 1: and also going I'm kind of stuck. I can't not
Speaker 1: do this because how can I say to my family
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: earn that money that we need. And so I started
Speaker 1: looking around and it was Gary Old, but I would
Speaker 1: I would see Gary's films and go, he is fantastic.
Speaker 1: He is really good. If I'm stuck doing this, I
Speaker 1: want to be as good as he is. And that
Speaker 1: was my inspiration as a teenager. I hate doing this.
Speaker 1: I want to give it up. But if I'm if
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this, I'd like to do something
Speaker 1: like he does. And I just told him that a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. Um, yeah, and then and then
Speaker 1: and then one of the actual passion for it kicking.
Speaker 1: It's sort of gradually came in. But I think it's
Speaker 1: a I don't think it's an unhealthy level of love
Speaker 1: and hate. Yeah about that last year, Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I don't think that's an unhealthy Yeah, how about you
Speaker 1: say much that's a fascinating So we started about the
Speaker 1: same age, do we? Yeah? I think I was ten, Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I got my d MS in the room snake.
Speaker 1: But that's amazing about your mom in the circus, that's incredible.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, my mom was uh, improvisational theater actress
Speaker 1: and and and she knew a bunch of crazy kind
Speaker 1: of downtown and I got thrown into place. She didn't
Speaker 1: have a babysit. You money for a babysitter. So I
Speaker 1: go to the rehearsals. She was saying telegrams and then
Speaker 1: I just ended up. Somebody said when you throw the
Speaker 1: kid in the play, and oh, that's crazy. Didn't do improv? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so that was like an improv based show, and
Speaker 1: that's how I got into it. But but yeah, I
Speaker 1: do relate to that, that kind of there's a there's
Speaker 1: a thing about when you're a kid, you know, you
Speaker 1: don't want to you want to be playing and you know,
Speaker 1: going to sleep at a normal hour, And so I
Speaker 1: think there is a little resentment when you're a kid
Speaker 1: and you grow up in it. You're doing stuff that
Speaker 1: you know you should be going to bed early, and
Speaker 1: you're up staying up late with the adults, and it's
Speaker 1: not normal. And I think there is a little bit
Speaker 1: of that hate love thing. I I kind of relate
Speaker 1: to that. And then nothing. It is a very natural
Speaker 1: thing for kids to role play, right an act, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they stop it when they feel like stopping it. They don't.
Speaker 1: You don't, no, no, no, no, You've got to keep going.
Speaker 1: But I don't want to do it anymore, no more.
Speaker 1: You do have to. So that's the big difference. Thinks,
Speaker 1: very natural instinct and very healthy thing to act and
Speaker 1: perform a role playing all that, but not on someone
Speaker 1: else's schedule. Most kids, you have to go, yeah, I'm done, now,
Speaker 1: let's go ride my bike. Yeah, you know you're on
Speaker 1: the clock until this time. And you well, that's what
Speaker 1: I love about what was Clintics would always say whenever
Speaker 1: you're ready, didn't say action. He says whenever you're ready. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of because that's kind of isn't that it
Speaker 1: right there? It's like it's like take away those strictures. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you want to do it for yourself. You want to
Speaker 1: do it because you want to be like your old man.
Speaker 1: You want to you know, um, you don't want to
Speaker 1: do it because you have somebody's making it because I
Speaker 1: want to snapping their fingers. Essentially, like your best work
Speaker 1: when you're doing it for yourself. Never, you never. If
Speaker 1: you do it for yourself, you're gonna do good work.
Speaker 1: If you do it for somebody else, you're not going.
Speaker 1: And then how about for you? Like when did the
Speaker 1: passion for it actually kick in for you? I think
Speaker 1: I was. I was similar where I sort of sucking
Speaker 1: off and I was I was, um, I was getting
Speaker 1: stone in high school and chasing girls, and then I
Speaker 1: kind of I didn't take it seriously because it was
Speaker 1: also in the blood, so I took it for granted.
Speaker 1: And then I went to New York when I was eighteen,
Speaker 1: and I started getting jobs, but I really didn't know
Speaker 1: what I was doing. And then I went and trained
Speaker 1: at this with this guy William Mesper and then I
Speaker 1: was sort of obsessed with Robert de Niro and all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And then Gary and Malkovich and
Speaker 1: John Taturo were on the scene, you know, and they
Speaker 1: were like, you remember John Thurrow Miller's crossing was like
Speaker 1: that scene Malkovich and you know everything you know. Um,
Speaker 1: but Gary Oldman was one of those guys and and so,
Speaker 1: and then I just was were you watching all that
Speaker 1: Robert DeNiro movies and you know, John Boyd and and
Speaker 1: then uh, and then I realized, oh, this is uh,
Speaker 1: this isn't a lark, this is a calling, this is
Speaker 1: a this you know, Darry said not to be pretentious,
Speaker 1: but it can be a noble profession. It is a
Speaker 1: craft and and it's something to work at. And so
Speaker 1: I think then I was when I was like twenty
Speaker 1: four or something, I was like, Okay, I should be
Speaker 1: more serious about this and not just take it for granted. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Funny you mentioning Gary Oldman because I had a note here.
Speaker 1: I had Gary on the show last year. We're talking
Speaker 1: about you had another immersion that he had last year
Speaker 1: into a role with the makeup and everything, and then
Speaker 1: you both are are working in some serious makeup with
Speaker 1: this movie. So him just curious about you know, just
Speaker 1: crafting the visage and everything is is a huge part
Speaker 1: of this movie. So just talk to me about that,
Speaker 1: like especially with you Christian working under a lot of
Speaker 1: makeup and about that, because yeah, because um, you know, I,
Speaker 1: I we we we have very different approaches, uh to it.
Speaker 1: Because I had said, well, I don't know how to
Speaker 1: do this except for I've got to gain the white
Speaker 1: you know myself. Uh, And I was, I was in
Speaker 1: the middle of doing that. I was probably you know,
Speaker 1: you know, a large toddler, bigger than I had begun already,
Speaker 1: you know. And and then I see that Gary has
Speaker 1: done that. So I caught up Gary and said, well,
Speaker 1: how much weight did you gain? And he said I
Speaker 1: didn't gain any weight? And I went no, no, no, no, no, Gary,
Speaker 1: how much weight did you gain, you know, for the
Speaker 1: role doing that? And he was like, just told you
Speaker 1: for the Winston Churchill And he said, no, I just
Speaker 1: told you. I didn't gain anything. I wait what he said,
Speaker 1: I didn't get a pound? How was that even possible?
Speaker 1: He said, no, no, nothing at all. So I was
Speaker 1: already well down the track of sort of you know,
Speaker 1: putting on a lot of weight myself. But you know,
Speaker 1: the understanding that now things have come that was very
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, but I didn't understand that it comes such
Speaker 1: a long way, you know, at that point. And then
Speaker 1: and then it was possible. I always thought when people said, oh,
Speaker 1: we'll just stick on the fat, so I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're naive creature. It's that doesn't work like that. Um.
Speaker 1: But so yes, I would completely rethink the way I
Speaker 1: would do it now. But I was already well down track,
Speaker 1: and like I was like, but Gary, I've already put
Speaker 1: on this much weight and I've grown my neck like
Speaker 1: four inches, you know. I mean, but you're like you're
Speaker 1: like a crazy person, like Robert de Narrow, like the machinist.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean you're like a crazy like you're like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's nuts like you. I mean, is it
Speaker 1: like me in admirable way? I mean admirable nuts. I say,
Speaker 1: I say that with the adoration respect. I couldn't do
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could do that. It's it's
Speaker 1: admirable nuts to you. So nuts, I always I keep saying,
Speaker 1: never again, Yeah, Okay, We're just gonna pause here for
Speaker 1: a moment and have a quick word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1: Will be right back here with Christian Bale and Sam Rockwell.
Speaker 1: This episode of Playback is brought to you by Warner Brothers.
Speaker 1: A Star is born. As we talk about important films
Speaker 1: of this past year, this one is top of mind,
Speaker 1: emotionally resonating with critics and audiences, and the film's director,
Speaker 1: Bradley Cooper is being recognized for his brilliant work as
Speaker 1: a filmmaker and actor, along with his cast Lady Gaga
Speaker 1: and Sam Elliott, for their stunning performances varieties. Film critic
Speaker 1: Owen Gliberman has called the film a total emotional knockout
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles Times, as critic Justin Chang said, from
Speaker 1: the first frame, it casts a spell, the kind that
Speaker 1: lets you know immediately that you're in good hands. A
Speaker 1: star is born for your consideration in all categories. All Right, everyone,
Speaker 1: We're back here with Christian Bale and Sam Rockwell, the
Speaker 1: stars of Adam McKay's Vice. Uh, you did a good
Speaker 1: job being on the weaight, sir, you did a good
Speaker 1: job of losing it too. I was gonna ask you
Speaker 1: how you lost it if you don't mind sharing. Did
Speaker 1: you just stop eating? Yeah, pretty much, just go to
Speaker 1: bed hungry and be miserable. Yeah. When we spoke last year, yeah,
Speaker 1: you had the day before, you had you had just
Speaker 1: wrapped the day before actually, and you were just happy
Speaker 1: to kind of relinquished Cheney for a little bit. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to talk about that. It's a
Speaker 1: character that. First of all, I just want to say
Speaker 1: I loved the film. It's it's phenomenal, and I actually
Speaker 1: I had such a weird experience watching it. I felt
Speaker 1: incredibly empty after I finished watching it. I just felt
Speaker 1: like I stared on to the boy because I just
Speaker 1: watched a portrait of a soulless individual. In my opinion,
Speaker 1: that's what I just finished watching. And I was staggered
Speaker 1: at at at the person I had just seen. And so, uh,
Speaker 1: I know that's not your approach, though, because you when
Speaker 1: we spoke last year, you you you said you told
Speaker 1: Adam that you were going to really I'm at it
Speaker 1: trying to understand that. Yeah. Yeah, and just just so
Speaker 1: uh so obviously a different perspective. And have you seen
Speaker 1: the film yet? Numerous times? Okay, because because Sam hadn't
Speaker 1: seen it yet, and it's interesting because it seems like
Speaker 1: so much footage might have been shot that didn't make
Speaker 1: it into the movie. So I'm very curious once you
Speaker 1: see it, what you think, you know, But talk about
Speaker 1: that like like the balance of you are in it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you didn't make the cut. You didn't make the cut,
Speaker 1: the balance of you know, any feelings you might have
Speaker 1: about the man versus pushing that away to play the man,
Speaker 1: and then the same for you know, you absolutely have
Speaker 1: to do that. Um, there's no interest to me in
Speaker 1: uh making a film where it's my opinions in their
Speaker 1: my opinions. I want to remove completely. You know, Adam
Speaker 1: is the story Eacheller and we agreed early on. Let
Speaker 1: me counter his um uh points of view, let me
Speaker 1: advocate for Cheney, let me try to convince him, because
Speaker 1: I do believe Trainey he's very strong, mind minded individual. Um,
Speaker 1: the nature of what does it mean to be a patriot?
Speaker 1: You know? I mean that that's a that's a real
Speaker 1: amorphous word, isn't it. You know, It's it's like obsession, right,
Speaker 1: It be a healthy thing, it can be incredibly unhealthy
Speaker 1: as well. But he certainly believes that what he did
Speaker 1: is right and correct and patriotic and good for the
Speaker 1: American people, whereas you will get other people who will
Speaker 1: say he's absolutely patriotic and and say he's a war criminal.
Speaker 1: You know, So that that disparity there, But for me
Speaker 1: to truly try to understand where he was coming from, um,
Speaker 1: to try to see the motivations and hopefully the good
Speaker 1: motivations in it. To look at his personal life as well,
Speaker 1: his devotion to Lynn, to his family, is embracing of
Speaker 1: Mary when she came out immediately, even though it was
Speaker 1: an athema to the rest of the party at that time. Um. Uh.
Speaker 1: There is, of course, you know, the enormous thing here though,
Speaker 1: of the Iraq war, enhanced interrogation, one of us white tapping, etcetera. Um.
Speaker 1: But how somebody can come to believe that these are
Speaker 1: American values um, and believe in American exceptionalism um in
Speaker 1: a way that is so vastly different from the way
Speaker 1: that other people American exceptionalism. But certainly not wanting to
Speaker 1: put my own politics into it. You know, the difference
Speaker 1: between Adam and Sam, myself, Amy, Steve is you're looking
Speaker 1: at Sam and me and Amy and Steve on the screen,
Speaker 1: and so we can be a terrible distraction to the
Speaker 1: film if you know too much about our own ideas
Speaker 1: we want, we want, you know, just look and see
Speaker 1: the characters, you know. So for me, it's Adam's place
Speaker 1: to be as political as he wants, but for me
Speaker 1: to try and stay, you know, somewhat neutral as far
Speaker 1: as the viewer is concerned. Of course, I've got my
Speaker 1: own opinions, very strong ones, but that's not why I do.
Speaker 1: You know, I portray other people, uh not me. But
Speaker 1: it was a fascinating exploration. You know. He's a fascinating individual,
Speaker 1: very complex, very very strong minded and hardline, but lots
Speaker 1: of ambiguity at the same time, you know, having this
Speaker 1: incredible ambition and many would say arrogance, but also being
Speaker 1: quite self sacrifice and giving up his own dreams of
Speaker 1: the presidency, you know, being a real zealot for the
Speaker 1: unitary executive, but which is for the president, He's not
Speaker 1: for him directly, but seeing the opportunity obviously with w
Speaker 1: being able to have his perfect scenario of working in
Speaker 1: the shadows but truly controlling m everything. But he's he's
Speaker 1: a remarkably complex individual. I came away from the movie
Speaker 1: with a big question mark of why though. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't want to get into a political discussion, but
Speaker 1: just that's what I was left with, was all of
Speaker 1: this hunger for power to what end and why? And
Speaker 1: it seems the answer to you as he's a patriot,
Speaker 1: he thought he was being a patriot, and I just
Speaker 1: it's just not it's not the vibe I gap from
Speaker 1: what Adam made, you know. I just I got a
Speaker 1: very very mysterious portrait out of it that I just
Speaker 1: could not understand why the man wanted what he wanted
Speaker 1: and what he did. I do UM find though, that
Speaker 1: this to me transcends chainey, that it does become a
Speaker 1: character um study um, an incredibly humorous one, an absurdest
Speaker 1: one at moments, which is Adam's rule talent of being
Speaker 1: able to take something which is very profound in moments
Speaker 1: and absolutely tragic and diabolical, but also to be able
Speaker 1: to find the entertainment and the humor as well, which
Speaker 1: always have to go hand in hand. Um. But to
Speaker 1: me it transcended just Chaining was also a reflection about
Speaker 1: what it means to be a person, to be a family,
Speaker 1: to be a nation, I found it moving beyond the leaf.
Speaker 1: I was sort of almost embarrassed and surprised that I
Speaker 1: was crying with laughter and I was crying from sadness. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I kind of see it also as as a
Speaker 1: love story to America. I think that it's it's it's
Speaker 1: you know, America has always been a country of great contradictions,
Speaker 1: with these beautiful ideals and beautiful dreams that make it
Speaker 1: exceptional and that the rest of the world look to
Speaker 1: and have been inspired by. You know, there are many
Speaker 1: other free countries now around the world, but many of
Speaker 1: which were inspired by America's um. But then the dark
Speaker 1: underbelly that has always existed, you know, I mean obviously
Speaker 1: slavery and you know, considering some people to be three
Speaker 1: fifths of person, etcetera, and all that and then continues
Speaker 1: to this day of people who believe that in order
Speaker 1: to have those freedoms, you are allowed to act in
Speaker 1: a way that it is absolutely opposing to what we judge,
Speaker 1: you know, America's standards to be um. That's fascinating, and
Speaker 1: I think that's fascinating not only to Americans, but to
Speaker 1: the to the entire world, because America has an enormous
Speaker 1: influence and not just politically but emotionally to it because
Speaker 1: it is a very unique country. Yeah, how about you Sam,
Speaker 1: similar question. I mean, just divorcing any feelings you might
Speaker 1: have from playing the character. Yeah, I mean what what
Speaker 1: what Christians about being juxtaposing Adam's job. I think it's
Speaker 1: really important to kind of it's our job to find
Speaker 1: the humanity in the character. That's our responsibility. And it's
Speaker 1: also it's George W. Through Cheney's point of view too.
Speaker 1: But um, I think that that's that's what's that's what's
Speaker 1: sort of my job is to kind of just make
Speaker 1: him as human as possible, you know, in spite of
Speaker 1: the very famous way that he talked, you know, which
Speaker 1: is a little daunting. But um but yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I think it's just working with when whenever you're
Speaker 1: you're working with somebody like like Christian or Francis mcdormott
Speaker 1: or Gary Oldman or Joaquin Phoenix. For right now, I'm
Speaker 1: wearing the show Alimes, you go go in loaded for bear,
Speaker 1: You're going no, when you're you're gonna fight Frasier or
Speaker 1: you're gonna you're going into like You're like you better
Speaker 1: be on your a game, you know, because I know
Speaker 1: he's gonna be on his A game, so and that,
Speaker 1: and then it's a very famous guy, so it's a
Speaker 1: it's it's a you're you're you're tingling with you know,
Speaker 1: creativity because you're scared and you're like you want it
Speaker 1: to be, you know, really good. And I think that's
Speaker 1: what was so fun about us on set working together,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, and he really did get thrown to
Speaker 1: the deep end. But also that because the very the
Speaker 1: scene that you see in the trailer when we discuss
Speaker 1: it really gonna am I on and on, you know,
Speaker 1: it's chiny on and on. It's that is the VP.
Speaker 1: That was Sam's very first say. But it was also
Speaker 1: the first time I actually sat down and spoken as
Speaker 1: Cheney every other scene, working from one him to the other,
Speaker 1: getting the gate right, doing all that. It was for
Speaker 1: me also the first time I sat down and we
Speaker 1: had I don't know how long the original take of
Speaker 1: that was, but it was long, and it already gets
Speaker 1: cut down, but were off the minute. We're doing a
Speaker 1: lot of improv and stuff, and it was fantastic and
Speaker 1: it was hilarious, but it was we're discovering it at
Speaker 1: the same time, and it helped me a great deal
Speaker 1: because I would talk to and not to jump in.
Speaker 1: There's no other way to do it with these characters.
Speaker 1: He was, he was staying in it, and so I
Speaker 1: tried to stay in it. But we talked about normal
Speaker 1: things like like Steves on right and other things, and
Speaker 1: it was fun and I was like, all right, let's
Speaker 1: do this. And I actually me and Michelle are doing
Speaker 1: a little bit of that right now, but in and out,
Speaker 1: you know. But but it's it's a fun way to work,
Speaker 1: you know. And also, when you're like a supporting player
Speaker 1: and you have done leads, you have an incredible amount
Speaker 1: of compassion for the lead actor because even though this
Speaker 1: felt like bigger than a supporting role, it because I
Speaker 1: think because of the daunting task of who this guy is.
Speaker 1: But but you you you know that he's getting up
Speaker 1: at two in the morning, and you have and you
Speaker 1: just you know, if you've done lead roles and you're
Speaker 1: doing a supporting you have a you have an understanding
Speaker 1: and a respect for what kind of hours this person
Speaker 1: is keeping, you know, and you want to be there
Speaker 1: for them and and that kind of thing. Yeah, thank
Speaker 1: you should. Yeah, it's probably nice to show up first
Speaker 1: day and just have a plate of fried chicken. You're
Speaker 1: gonna be digging into the whole time. Yea, yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: And you never met Bush. I know you never met changing,
Speaker 1: but no, cigar, you said you did try that. I
Speaker 1: did try. Yeah, what what did you hope to glean
Speaker 1: from him? If you did? I want you know what
Speaker 1: I would have done. Really, The main thing is have
Speaker 1: him take my lines in a tape of quart and
Speaker 1: do some alts. That's what I would have done. I
Speaker 1: did that with Chuck Barriss. I would have done that
Speaker 1: with him. But if he was willing, I thought you
Speaker 1: would have loved it. Yeah, I think he would have too,
Speaker 1: But I never I would have hadn't recorded my lines
Speaker 1: and say and I would say, what do you think
Speaker 1: would what would you say if you don't like this line?
Speaker 1: What would you say instead? And then I would bring
Speaker 1: that to Adam and go, this is what you know.
Speaker 1: And the way Bush is used in the movie is
Speaker 1: kind of I mean, he's kind of used his color
Speaker 1: in a way. Obviously he's playing there Adams playing up
Speaker 1: the comedic elements of the character in terms of how
Speaker 1: we're going to few him as an audience and I
Speaker 1: just wondered if that, with everything you've said about trying
Speaker 1: to be true to the to the you know, the
Speaker 1: reality and the emotion of the character taken. I'm just
Speaker 1: curious if the way Bush was being used in the
Speaker 1: project at all made you wanted to play a caricature
Speaker 1: in any way. No, I mean never, never, never, I mean,
Speaker 1: you gotta it's gotta be real, you gott you can't.
Speaker 1: The the impression has to take back seat to the acting,
Speaker 1: so the you know, to the reality always I think,
Speaker 1: I mean I was saying this earlier, but you know,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't. I don't think we're we we
Speaker 1: want to see Daniel de Lewis do an impression of
Speaker 1: Abe Lincoln or what he imagines Abe Lincoln to be.
Speaker 1: I think we're seeing some of Daniel dey Lewis's attributes
Speaker 1: that he imagines Lincoln would have, sensitivity, the intelligence, etcetera.
Speaker 1: And we don't. You're not going to give a shit
Speaker 1: if you don't see that actor's hard and soul coming
Speaker 1: through and just an impression. I mean, both characters. We've
Speaker 1: seen people do fantastic, yeah, impressions, you know, much of
Speaker 1: it um during Adams Days Saturday that life, you know.
Speaker 1: So that's it's great and it's brilliant and it's good,
Speaker 1: but you can't do that's not a two hour film. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you've gotta get the essence of the character an impersonation.
Speaker 1: Uh did you reach out to anyone in their circles?
Speaker 1: Did you? Did it seem appropriate to do so? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well I thought I I very much. I did all.
Speaker 1: I did a lot of research thinking how I'm gonna
Speaker 1: reach out because I've always met with every real person
Speaker 1: I've ever played, um, but they weren't public figures. And
Speaker 1: that's what the big difference ultimately came down to, was
Speaker 1: that I did all this research and I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: it'll either just tell me you know what you told
Speaker 1: Patrick lay on the Senate floor, and it will be
Speaker 1: well that would be enterchaining just to be told that. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, but if he did give me the time
Speaker 1: of day, I better know everything because I thought it'll
Speaker 1: grill me. So I really did a research and then
Speaker 1: I called and I said I'm ready, I want I
Speaker 1: want to reach out, and I got told within like
Speaker 1: five minutes, no, you cannot do that. If you bumped
Speaker 1: into him accidentally and chatted with him makes it different,
Speaker 1: but you're reaching out directly. That leaves the movie legally vulnerable.
Speaker 1: So I don't even begin to understand all of that particulately.
Speaker 1: I do, really, I just don't want to get into
Speaker 1: it and show that that that didn't happen. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know, um, I saw this before. I see
Speaker 1: if it come up quick enough. But I have you know,
Speaker 1: on your phone arm and you look at this. You know,
Speaker 1: people in places, Look who's on my people in places?
Speaker 1: They it's me, it's my daughter. And because I've just
Speaker 1: got I've got all these wonderful things where you can
Speaker 1: bring up you know they do, uh, the iPhone does
Speaker 1: the memories. Yeah, yeah, it's hundred with Dick Cheney with
Speaker 1: uplifting music behind there and then little seatements and he
Speaker 1: goes well the weapons around the music, and some of
Speaker 1: it is intermingled with my family Oh my god moments
Speaker 1: and all that iPhone has gone. Clearly this person is vital.
Speaker 1: I think he must thinks he's the granddad or something.
Speaker 1: He kill he's part of the family. So all of
Speaker 1: our family memories all have suddenly Dick Cheney coming into
Speaker 1: middle because they've got so many videos on here. I
Speaker 1: think you work on You're very watching photographs and all
Speaker 1: that that my phone misunderstands and thinks that obviously this
Speaker 1: man that's going to happen forever until let's you started
Speaker 1: leading those decide to delete and I haven't quite gotten
Speaker 1: me yet. Keep in mind, horrid I think to play that, yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to be yeah, yeah, I mean that's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's taking your work home. Um. I want to talk
Speaker 1: about Adams was just shooting style because as I've been saying,
Speaker 1: it seems like there's stuff in the trailer that's not
Speaker 1: in the movie. So it just seems like he's the
Speaker 1: kind of guy that shoots a lot of stuff and
Speaker 1: finds a lot of things in the editing. Maybe, but
Speaker 1: you know, you've obviously worked with him, and like before,
Speaker 1: what did you think about working with Adam on this one? Said,
Speaker 1: I had a great time. I'd heard about Adam's improvisational
Speaker 1: kind of alt stuff, and so I prepared some some stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, just in case, and I think I bombarded
Speaker 1: you the first day. It was some of those um
Speaker 1: but yeah, I thought it was really fun. I had
Speaker 1: a good time. I like the looseness of it. I
Speaker 1: thought it was really really cool. Yeah, how was it
Speaker 1: different this time? I guess or did it feel different? Um?
Speaker 1: Just more involving, you know, I mean, it's it's it's yeah,
Speaker 1: Adams got such an easy going where about him. It's
Speaker 1: such a good nature, even with all of the hours
Speaker 1: that you were mentioning and everything. You know, it's very
Speaker 1: often on films it's an intense environment and you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you get attention and up and all that, and
Speaker 1: sometimes you sort of feel like, well that maybe that's
Speaker 1: needed because it happens so often on films, but because
Speaker 1: people care about what they're doing. But on Adam's sex
Speaker 1: it really never happens at all star and uh, and
Speaker 1: you still get this wonderful uh and the result um,
Speaker 1: and that really does come from the director. But in
Speaker 1: terms of like the improv, this was a whole different
Speaker 1: kettle of fish, because it's not just a matter of, oh,
Speaker 1: what are the sayings that the guy would have from
Speaker 1: the region he is from, what's his history there? Ummane.
Speaker 1: It's about understanding what his thoughts were on policy and
Speaker 1: what the policy was old and where it came from
Speaker 1: and what number it had. So my head was about
Speaker 1: to explode every day, not because of what was on
Speaker 1: the page, but because of what I had ready in
Speaker 1: my head in case anybody else decided to go off page,
Speaker 1: that I would be able to just go with it.
Speaker 1: So that was That was many hours of just staying
Speaker 1: up and reading and rereading and listening. Again was the
Speaker 1: big short like that though too, because you did you
Speaker 1: remind me so, because I was totally isolated, you know,
Speaker 1: because the nature of Michael Bury was that he was
Speaker 1: in an office all by himself. So I shot that
Speaker 1: whole thing in nine days, so and it was very
Speaker 1: much him by himself, and the luxury and the real
Speaker 1: pleasure of going and sitting with Michael for a whole
Speaker 1: day and talking with him, and so I had all
Speaker 1: of that, you know. Yeah, you know I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't get to go. Would you haven't taped your lines
Speaker 1: or have you ever done that thing kind of things?
Speaker 1: I've done that with people from areas with the correct
Speaker 1: dialect I had. Oh no, I did do it with
Speaker 1: the dick Yekman for the fire. Yeah, I had him
Speaker 1: read and it's the same aligns, you know, because you
Speaker 1: have no idea, you know, you never know. You might
Speaker 1: get a dialect, but then you've got the personal lydiosyncrasies
Speaker 1: where oh, Dicky, it says it actually like this, it's
Speaker 1: nothing like everyone else. So yeah, that was really helpful.
Speaker 1: And it also just helps break the eyes. It's nice
Speaker 1: to just you want to spend quantity time with people
Speaker 1: and and and and it's a nice way of just
Speaker 1: hanging out together without to think about, oh, what do
Speaker 1: we talk about now? It's just you know exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: time is getting away from me. I'm gonna okay, you
Speaker 1: guys lose. But before I let you go, there was
Speaker 1: one person that you I kind of wrote out a
Speaker 1: list of people that you've both worked with, you know,
Speaker 1: Ridley Scott McGee, Francis McDormand, but one person I really
Speaker 1: wanted to hear about from both of you, Sam Shepard.
Speaker 1: I worked with him on Jesse James Sam. You worked
Speaker 1: with him on Out of the Furnace Christians. So just
Speaker 1: such great memories. I'd I'd love to hear anything. The
Speaker 1: first time that we uh met, we just they done
Speaker 1: one of those weak things you know sometimes where they
Speaker 1: almost never sit in a chair on a film set, right,
Speaker 1: but we were filming out in a forest and they
Speaker 1: put Sam in my chair like about two hundred yards
Speaker 1: away from everybody else. So Sam and I found ourselves
Speaker 1: sitting there with nobody or else around. I just had
Speaker 1: the best discussion. He was just such a great conversations
Speaker 1: because we're funny and and I really what I regret
Speaker 1: is that he is that we didn't get together after
Speaker 1: because he had invited me down to that joint in
Speaker 1: Santa Fe. And and after, you know, sadly he passed that,
Speaker 1: I did find myself driving past it and I stopped
Speaker 1: and thought, man, I can't you know, you just think
Speaker 1: people are going to be around and you're gonna have
Speaker 1: more time. Particularly want to go and sit with him
Speaker 1: when we're not acting, you know, together. And he would
Speaker 1: laugh at me because we had such different aisles of approach,
Speaker 1: you know, and we can look at you, dude, go
Speaker 1: on the let's try that. I never I've never bothered
Speaker 1: that much. But he was just brilliant. He was somebody
Speaker 1: special and and and even though you know, I didn't
Speaker 1: know for life or for for many years, just a
Speaker 1: few months that we spent together, really miss him because
Speaker 1: I expected to know him for years to come. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how about you saying? Yeah, I felt that, Well, we
Speaker 1: all were on Jesse James that we were sort of
Speaker 1: going out one night. It was Garrett Della Hunt, Jeremy
Speaker 1: Renner and a bunch of us were gonna go go
Speaker 1: a night on the town and we were like, well,
Speaker 1: let's call Sam, you know, and and was like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, he's gonna maybe he justn't want to hang out.
Speaker 1: And I was like, now we should call him. You know,
Speaker 1: I think Paul snyders, let's call him. And he came
Speaker 1: out with us. We had a great night, you know,
Speaker 1: and I think I asked him about Full for Love,
Speaker 1: which I ended up doing, and um, he was just
Speaker 1: so cool on Full for Love. You know. I had
Speaker 1: to learn the last so really quick and I was
Speaker 1: terrible at it. And he was funny about it. He
Speaker 1: was like, well maybe you're a bull rider or something,
Speaker 1: you know, and then he said, um we we said
Speaker 1: do you want to do you want? He rewrites, I'm
Speaker 1: fool for Love? And he hit the most minimal stuff
Speaker 1: like he said, why don't you say, um, uh, just
Speaker 1: throwing goats, you know, just like little little things like that.
Speaker 1: He was just a cool guy. He just he he
Speaker 1: could tell you about would you mean throwing the wood?
Speaker 1: It was like there was there was like a diet
Speaker 1: some dialogue like comes stay with me and my my
Speaker 1: my ranch with this, this and this, and he just said,
Speaker 1: you know, like most playwrights would like change and entire
Speaker 1: scene or something, and he just he didn't. He just
Speaker 1: like tweaked a little bit. And he but he he
Speaker 1: just knew about all kinds of I just knew he
Speaker 1: would tell you about how they make cigars and hit
Speaker 1: all this weird kind of actual stuff. He was just
Speaker 1: he told me. He did. He told me how to
Speaker 1: do that, and he introduced me to Poppy Van Winkles.
Speaker 1: Ah that's a good reduction. Wow. Yeah, that's a good introduction.
Speaker 1: Well thanks for that. Uh, and go see the movie everyone,
Speaker 1: vice it opens Christmas Day holiday fund for the family.
Speaker 1: You should go check it out. It's I think it's
Speaker 1: one of the best movies of the year and you're
Speaker 1: both fantastic in it. So thank you again to both
Speaker 1: of you for coming back on the show. There you go,
Speaker 1: There you go. Thanks Thanks guys, Thanks a lot, Thanks
Speaker 1: a lot. Once again, this episode of Playback has been
Speaker 1: brought to you by Warner Brothers. A Star is born.
Speaker 1: As we talk about important films of this past year,
Speaker 1: this one is top of mind, emotionally resonating with critics
Speaker 1: and audiences, and the film's director, Bradley Cooper is being
Speaker 1: recognized for his brilliant work as a filmmaker and actor,
Speaker 1: along with his cast Lady Gaga and em Elliott for
Speaker 1: their stunning performances varieties. Film critic Owen Glieberman has called
Speaker 1: the film a total emotional knockout. In Los Angeles, Times
Speaker 1: critic Justin Chang said, from the first frame, it casts
Speaker 1: a spell, the kind that lets you know immediately that
Speaker 1: you're in good hands. A star is born for your
Speaker 1: consideration in all categories.