1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is All. They called 6 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: all Mission Control Decade. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't 9 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: want you to know. Uh today, Just a heads up, folks, 10 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: there's not going to be a lot of strong language. 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: But this is a subject that is very sensitive to 12 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people. Uh, So we're going to navigate 13 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: it together. Maybe the best way to start is with 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: a question who does the actual work? Right? This is 15 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: a question that comes up in pretty much much any partnership, 16 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: whether it's professional or romantic, corporate America, your personal life, 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: everything from like grade school projects, two decades long marriages 18 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: inevitably run into this question at one point or another, 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: who does the actual stuff? And not infrequently, in the 20 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: world of business, companies would rather you not know who's 21 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: doing the actual work powering the products and the services 22 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: you buy. This tendency can be tragically familiar to all 23 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: of us listening today in one way or another, but 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: it's reached a new apex in the modern age um, 25 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: a dark sort of capitalist sorcery, one that is capable 26 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: of cutting the all important bottom line and exchange for 27 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: very real, long term consequences. Today's episode Outsourcing, here are 28 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: the facts. Oh my god, are we gonna get outsourced 29 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: after this? I don't know how I like to to 30 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: other podcasters in India something or somehow, I already feel outsourced. 31 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: But it's more an internal it's an insourcing. I don't 32 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: know how to explain it. It's complex, it's it's layered, 33 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: it's very onion le. But let's start off by defining 34 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: some terms. Um, what exactly is outsourcing? Uh? In the 35 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: context of business, that describes the process of hiring individuals 36 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: or companies outside of your company to perform tasks, or 37 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: provide services, or handle operations or managerial kind of you know, 38 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: organizational tasks that were previously done by employees within the company. 39 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: So pretty simple, but turns out it's very very complex 40 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: in terms of those consequences you were talking about, Ben. Yeah, 41 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: And it's important to note that this isn't in and 42 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: of itself a particularly inherently sinister thing. You know, in 43 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: some ways it's very very common, Like consider your job 44 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: stuff processing payroll or insurance claims. Tons of large companies 45 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: outsource those tasks to a third party because they specialize 46 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: in that field. Right, we make widgets. We don't do 47 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: workplace injuries. So let's have a company that specializes in 48 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: workplace injuries take care of it, because one, they're better 49 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 1: at it, and to they're way less likely to mess 50 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: it up and get us an even more trouble. Right, 51 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: this happens with small companies. Like if we if the 52 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: five of us here at stuff they don't want you 53 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,839 Speaker 1: to know. If we didn't have a podcast, Let's say 54 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: we started a landscaping company instead, and we got kind 55 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: of big. There are a lot of yards in Atlanta. 56 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: We've got multiple locations, various teams of cruise and employees, 57 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: and we're really good at maintaining yards and outdoor spaces. 58 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: And for a while we had like one accountant handling things. 59 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,119 Speaker 1: Let's be unfair Paul and say he was our accountant. 60 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: But we've grown so much that now it's too much 61 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: work for one person. Even though Paul is the best 62 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: accountant in town. He's one person. So we get together, 63 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: we do the math, and we say, hey, we cannot 64 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: only take care of our accounting issue, but we can 65 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: save money by paying an accounting firm to handle the 66 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: whole kitten caboodle for us. This isn't going to make 67 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: a difference to most of our employees. They'll still get 68 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: the same checks every two weeks, maybe bonuses when times 69 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: are good, because hopefully we're not an evil landscape company. Well, 70 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: it's almost like you get like a bulk rate kind 71 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: of right if if you're retaining a firm that only 72 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: hires accountants rather than hiring a single accountant for your 73 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: form or a team, you are essentially benefiting from the 74 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: fact that this other firm specializes an accounting it only 75 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: has accountants on their payroll. So you're almost like getting 76 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: a discount by virtue of the fact that they just 77 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: have like dozen of accountants on staff, rather than you 78 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: having to pay the salary of one or two or 79 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: three or four individual accountants to be on your team. Specifically, Yeah, 80 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: I'm thinking like, uh, I don't have a name for 81 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: the landscaping company yet, but how about the c P 82 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: A firm is called discountant. No, no, it sounds like 83 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: they lose money. Can be called conspirat escapers. There we go, 84 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: I see, yeah, green lighted. So it's weird because you know, 85 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: you we've looked into a lot of research on this, 86 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: and we've seen a lot of you know, bombastic uh 87 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: statements by pundits in mainstream media and stuff, and there's 88 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot of good business to be made by 89 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: excoriating the corporate fat cats of the world. They get 90 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: a lot of heat, and honestly, in many cases they 91 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: deserve it. But in those explorations, people often don't point 92 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: out that other folks practice out sourcing in our own lives. 93 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: On a microeconomic scale. You might hire your own CPA 94 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: around tax season. You don't talk to that person every 95 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: you know, Tuesday or something, just probably right before April, 96 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: and then you talk to them again next year. People 97 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: pay parents pay daycares or nanny's all the time. And 98 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: it's not because they're bad parents. It's not because they're 99 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: worried about their families profit margin. It's because they have 100 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: to have jobs, you know, and they have to make 101 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: sure their kids are in a safe place and have 102 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: an opportunity to learn and have a socially enriched life. 103 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: That's still kind of outsourcing, is it not? So it 104 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: definitely is uh, And it's not like this is a 105 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: new thing. We right before we recorded, we shared this 106 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: video from two thousand nine from the Onion that was 107 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: making fun of outsourcing tactics like we're talking about right now. 108 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: And the point of the video was that even individual 109 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: employees are outsourcing their entire jobs to other countries. And 110 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: you know, that's two thousand nine. Go back a little further, 111 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: and then keep going back, and then keep going back 112 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: to the time when lace making was one of the 113 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: primary things to be done, one of the tasks that 114 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: needed to be done. It makes me think of the 115 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: Union episode, the Union's episodes that we just did. The 116 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: tactic is as old as beans. I don't know why 117 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: I like that phrase. I don't know if it's a 118 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: real phrase. Nobody quotas, but yeah, well, we talked about 119 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: cottage industries not a super creative name. Back in the day, 120 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: shopkeepers would outsource this really and we're intensive labor, time 121 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: intensive stuff like lace making to people who were literally 122 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: sitting around in their cottages. So outsourcing has existed for 123 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: very very long time. It just didn't have the name. 124 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: Uh it's a portmanteau for outside resourcing, and it didn't 125 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: really inter common usage until nineteen eight one, and then 126 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: it became kind of a mainstream business practice around nineteen 127 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: eighty nine. You could say in the US, well, I 128 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: mean it's like you could say, you know, most manufacturing 129 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: of the products and goods that we use are outsourced. 130 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: I mean, there are American companies that we buy things 131 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: from the outsourced all of their manufacturing to countries like 132 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: China because of the lower cost of labor and the 133 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: you know, more ready supply of materials and supply chains stuff. 134 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: So what used to be called a cottage industry referring 135 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: to like outsourcing a labor intensive service is now kind 136 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: of more of a stand in for like a niche 137 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: kind of bespoke handmade type industry or or you know, 138 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: creator manufacturer. Like if something is a cottage industry, that 139 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: means it's probably made by a small team by hand 140 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: in the country where the country where the company is located. Yeah, 141 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: you know, like local peanut brittle makers. You know. Yeah, Well, 142 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: it's important to note there that outsourcing doesn't just mean, 143 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, sending labor off to an their country. It 144 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: could be something that's just sending labor outside of your organization, right. 145 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: Uh So hiring someone to do something, even if they're 146 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: in your same state or in the office building next 147 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: to you, that's still outsourcing. Yeah, what we're talking about 148 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: is interesting. There's a Vin diagram here of two things 149 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: that are closely related but somewhat distinct. We're in modern terms. 150 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: When most people are talking about outsourcing, they're talking about 151 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 1: a specific genre called off shoring. That's where you move 152 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: some kind of business function to a different country, and 153 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: that's where corporations make a lot of money. Uh. Some 154 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: outsourcing includes offshoring, but not all. Outsourcing can be entirely domestic. 155 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 1: It can be macro and micro, and there are a 156 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: lot of advantages if you're a business owner, obviously this 157 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: makes sense. You can potentially save a ton of money 158 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: and a ton of headaches as long as you get 159 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: away with it. I mean, first, don't have to pay 160 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: for all the expenses of in house labor, things like insurance, benefits, 161 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: vacation time, maybe a four oh one case, stuff that 162 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: full time in house employees theoretically would expect or would 163 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: strive for. And then second you can employ fewer people. 164 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: Don't need for that piskey I T department. We have 165 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: a company that just leases and services all our computers. 166 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: We signed a four year deal. If something goes wrong 167 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: with the printer, just call those guys. I think his 168 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 1: name is Chuck. It's not always Chuck, but it's usually Chuck. 169 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: Like that's very common. You know, anybody who has an 170 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: office printer might be familiar with that. And maybe most importantly, 171 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: you save time, the only real currency of our age. 172 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: You don't have to spend hours training unemployee to do 173 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: this thing. You don't have to pay a premium to 174 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: bring someone else's expertise in house. And maybe best of 175 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: all for really busy UM, really busy executive is you 176 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: don't have to really learn something new yourself. You can 177 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: just delegate it. But the big money is interested in 178 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: some big loopholes, this stuff like um, going to a 179 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: country with a different tax system that's maybe a little 180 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: more friendly to you, a country that's not as you know, 181 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: hot and bothered about some aspects of workers rights, or 182 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,719 Speaker 1: you know, they say, hey, the environment can take care 183 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 1: of itself. We don't need to regulate that it becomes 184 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: like when you start listing those benefits, it becomes increasingly 185 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: like made for TV infomercial. But wait, there's more, because 186 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: there's always something else that would not fly in the 187 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: United States that might fly in another country. And you know, honestly, 188 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: taxation is a big part and they're ridiculous, ridiculous. We're 189 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: gonna get into a ridiculous number of companies out there 190 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: that will outsource your work. And it's a crazy competitive market. 191 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: You can find article after or article written by companies 192 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,599 Speaker 1: or representatives of companies that are extolling these things. Have 193 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,719 Speaker 1: been as describing all of the made for TV commercials, 194 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 1: uh for outsourcing for everything from legal stuff like we 195 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: were talking about taxes I t uh, even teaching, even 196 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: teaching like educational jobs. Uh, it's crazy, but there's like 197 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: there's like apps and stuff for this. Now you know, 198 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: we we've done ads I think for zip recruiter, which 199 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: would be you know, considered I guess outsourcing hiring right 200 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: like you're or like legal zoom, which is what you 201 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: were just describing, mat like outsourcing legal task and then 202 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: those things are very functional and make a lot of 203 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: sense if you are a small company, but when you 204 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: start seeing larger companies doing this stuff at at at scale, 205 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, to use a douchy kind of business buzzword, um, 206 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: that is when it starts being problematic because I've seen 207 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: things like, for example, um outsourcing of graphic design. Uh, say, 208 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: like for a big company using some of these kind 209 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: of like outsourcing graphic design uh sites and services that 210 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: essentially go for the lowest bidder um in other countries 211 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: where you know, wages are much much lower in order 212 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: to get a logo design or something like that, something 213 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: that maybe could go to an independent freelance graphic designer 214 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: or small you know, independently owned graphic design firm in America. 215 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: And again I'm not saying that these other you know, 216 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: uh workers, these other freelancers and other countries shouldn't be 217 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: getting work, but it's kind of for like a weird, 218 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: slightly sketchy reason, you know, like, at what point is 219 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: are you saving money at the detriment of your own 220 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: countries um economy? Yeah, this, I'm glad you mentioned two 221 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: things guys. First, that two thousand nine onion article. We'll 222 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: get back to that in a second, uh. And then 223 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: we'll get back to that later in this episode. And 224 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: then secondly, uh, corporate buzz terms because since I have 225 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: uh uh absolute iron grasp on priorities, I stayed up 226 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: late last night doing research and then I stopped and 227 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: just wrote out fake, fake buzzwords because you hear so many, 228 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: especially on the pro outsourcing side. You know, I was 229 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: thinking about specific forms of outsourcing, how you make them 230 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: sound more customer friendly, like trout sourcing, pout sourcing, you 231 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: know what I mean, route sourcing, SAP. Yeah, cloud sourcing 232 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: was one of the first ones because I had to 233 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: talk with someone in l A today. But spoiler, not 234 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: everyone loves outsourcing. Not only not everyone sees it in 235 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: this kind of idealistic Thomas Friedman esque way. When we 236 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: ask why they don't like it, we know that a 237 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: lot of the critics dislike it for the same reasons 238 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: a lot of business owners and shareholders love it. And 239 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: these critics, by the way, are from all areas of 240 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: the political spectrum, and they don't all agree about why 241 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: they think out sourcing is bad. Uh. In their view, 242 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,239 Speaker 1: though you could say that they would generally argue outsourcing 243 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: is not just an at times ruthless move to increase revenue. 244 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: It's a dangerous tactic with consequences far beyond quarterly profits. 245 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: And in some cases they argue it's a conspiracy. What 246 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: do we mean when we say that, We'll tell you 247 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy, 248 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: all right. As Van Morrison's once said, cast your memory 249 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: back there. But we're not going back to the Brown 250 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: Eyed Girls song. We're going back to the nineteen nineties, 251 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: which was an uncomfortably long time ago now and what 252 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: would that be thirty thirty years ago? Oh? It's you 253 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: know the math that makes you really feel old or 254 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: really feel the passes of time when you say, like, 255 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: we're as far away from the nineteen nineties and the 256 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:05,239 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties was from the nineteen fifties something, yeah, sixties, Yeah, 257 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: But there was something really weird happening. There was a 258 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: ce change, and I think the ocean is a good 259 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: parallel for what we're going to explore today. There was 260 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: a c change in the world of US business, a 261 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: massive migration of manufacturing jobs. You know, all those like 262 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: those solid gigs that people once had in the trades manufacturing. 263 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: You know, you didn't have to go to college for 264 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: four years. You could get out of high school or 265 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: get out of military service, and then you could make 266 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: a pretty good living doing what people would sometimes call 267 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: blue collar work, right, and you could send your kids 268 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: to college. You could maybe go to college if you 269 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: wanted to, But why would you when you had a 270 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: solid job just waiting for you. The thing was, these 271 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: jobs were no longer solid. They were relocating to developing 272 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: countries because of those lower wage standards, because of little 273 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: to no safety stand inder, it's environmental regulations, all these 274 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 1: other factors, each of which dramatically lowers production costs for 275 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: these companies. And to be fair, you know, the people 276 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: on the other side, the people in the countries that 277 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: are practicing what we call in sourcing, I know these buzzwords, uh, 278 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: the insourcing employees, we're just regular people too. They are 279 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: just regular people. And in some cases, in many cases, 280 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: you could say this was good for those perspective employees. 281 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: They weren't making as much as they would uh, you know, 282 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: were they doing the same job in the US, which 283 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: is pretty much the whole point for the corporations, But 284 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: they would have a solid, hopefully sustainable job. In theory, 285 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: because sometimes these situations were disastrous. And when we talked 286 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: about disaster. We got to talk about all these really 287 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: disturbing short and long term consequences. I think the first 288 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: fewer obvious, but it gets muddy really quickly. So firstly, 289 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: um and I think most obviously, unless people working at 290 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: the original location move with the job, accepting those lower 291 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: wages and those standards, they're gonna become unemployed and forced 292 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: to find another, hopefully comparable job somewhere else. So that's 293 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: the obvious short term consequence for the people that are 294 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: directly involved. Me and it makes me think of, like, 295 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: I don't know, we have labor standards in America, we 296 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: have health and safety standards in America, but the companies 297 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: don't really put their money where their mouth is. They're 298 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: basically saying, like, wouldn't it be better if we were 299 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: back at the beginning of the industrial Revolution, when you know, 300 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: we could just like have children working in coal mines 301 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: and stuff. Wouldn't that be great? So how about instead 302 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: of like paying you know, American workers a fair wage 303 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: under these safe situations, let's just go to countries that 304 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: more resemble that situation. That'd be cool. So so it 305 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: really isn't about people at all. Nobody really cares about 306 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: people getting in shared or being an unsafe situations, or 307 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: being exploited. They're they're just it's another loophole they have 308 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: to figure out a way to deal with. I would 309 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: say they think about people. It's just tier seven on 310 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: the list of priorities. Well people. They think of people 311 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: as capital. They think of people as like a means 312 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: to an end, but not as like identities with families, 313 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, and and and mortgages. That's just not part 314 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: of the equation. And you could argue that's by design. 315 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: Why should it be part of the equation. I picture 316 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: the corporate boardroom and they're wrapping up the end of 317 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: the medium. They've gone through the six big benefits, right 318 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: about relocating uh their business to a developing country. And 319 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: then number seven, as people are like shuffling their papers 320 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, checking their phones, number seven is also, uh, 321 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: some of these new employees are probably not going to die. 322 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: And then someone goes, oh, that's nice, all right, Hey, 323 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: anybody want to get Chipotle? Huh, it's an app for that. 324 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: I want to give you as a quick quote from 325 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: an article titled five indicators that you need to outsource, 326 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: written by Derek Gallimore, who is apparently a Forbes Council's member. Uh. 327 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,439 Speaker 1: He says, this is a quote from an article he 328 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: has written that says, you know, this is why you 329 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: need to outsource as a company. It says, quote, your 330 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: employees are still humans. They have a tendency to get 331 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: overworked on certain projects. Two thousand nineteen, Asana study or 332 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: a Sauna study stated that more than eighty percent of 333 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: workers feel burned out at work, which could pose a 334 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: problem for your company. So let's let them get to 335 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: just the edge of burning out and then the extra 336 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: ten percent push over the cliff. Will outsource that bit, 337 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: which was the original definition of edgy. I gotta say, 338 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: I gotta say one tiny little quote. It's just like 339 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: it always when we're talking about corporation, that the way 340 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: they view people. I always think of this incredible Mr. 341 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: Show sketch where there's a CEO and a board. I've 342 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: we've in the people business since you are in short pants. 343 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: My grandfather started this company with one rickety slave ship 344 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: and a motto, people selling people people. That is, I 345 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: kid you not my favorite line in the entire I 346 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: quote it all the time. It's so appropriate. And that 347 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: guy is actually in the new season a better called Saul. 348 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: He's the fake uh, the fake judge. I forget the 349 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: actor's name, but I'll love all seeing all the Mr 350 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: Show folks pop up in Saul. Here and true story. 351 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: Many years ago, I emailed HBO to ask who specifically 352 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: wrote that sketch because I wanted to find out I didn't. 353 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: I didn't hear back. But HBO is a big company. Uh, well, 354 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: we'll talk about media companies in another episode. Here's the thing, though, 355 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: so we know the obvious stuff, right, This can be 356 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: a really terrible situation for the employees who don't have 357 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: the wherewithal or the opportunity to move to this factory 358 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: that's relocating or whatever. But outsourcing doesn't just affect one 359 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 1: company in an industry. It is contagious. It creates what 360 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: I would describe as a feedback loop. So let's say 361 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: there's a hypothetical company that makes Uh looking on my 362 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: notes here farfig lugers in parentheses, I put whatever. Okay, sorry, 363 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: it's clearly just making that up. So whatever you think 364 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: of when you think far fig luger, I hope that's 365 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: a made up word. Anyway, they outsource, they lower their 366 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: prices they're still up in their profits. At the same time, 367 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: all the executives are getting bonus as shareholders are getting dividends. 368 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: And let's say these executives aren't entirely crooked, so they 369 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: take part of their profits and they reinvest it in 370 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: the business, getting more infrastructure, research into new improved farfig 371 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: Luger two point ohs or whatever. All the other companies 372 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: in the Farfigluger industry notice this, and they need to 373 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: stay competitive, so it won't take too long for company 374 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 1: be to start outsourcing, and then other companies do it, 375 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: and it creates a feedback loop. It's normalized. It's the 376 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: thing you have to do to stay alive in the 377 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: cutthroat industry of the far far fig lookers. That's a 378 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: direct call back to our CEO pay episode, where it 379 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,959 Speaker 1: was just a trend that began and it continued increasing 380 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: and everybody had to join in or fall behind. Yeah, 381 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 1: and then that's that's where we see the rise of 382 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: a few manufacturers who go a different route and they'll say, 383 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: you know the fact that we have an outsource insert 384 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: product here is a selling point for us. So we're 385 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: going to make sure that all our far figlookers are 386 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: stamped made in the USA, and we'll appeal to people's patriotism. 387 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: So you know what. Another example of outsourcing in media 388 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 1: as animation that's been happening for a long time, like 389 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: you know, the Simpson's animating team that's actually based in 390 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: America will draw the key frames and then they'll ship 391 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: it out to Korea to have it, you know, fully 392 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: animated for for much less money. UM I would argue 393 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: that's maybe a slightly less gross version of it because 394 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: they're really good at animating in Korea, you know, and 395 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: in Japan. It's like it's just a thing. But also 396 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: it gets the job done quicker and they're able to 397 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: you know, hire higher paid you know, writers and key 398 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: animators in in the the U S team instead of 399 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: having to have a whole like stable of like you know, 400 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: kind of more workman like animators. So I don't know, 401 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: do you think does that is that better or worse? 402 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: Or am I just like giving them a pass because 403 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: I like cartoons like uh, I think myself. North Korean 404 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: animation in particular is avazing. It's fantastic. Uh there are 405 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: a lot of really talented animators, but there you know, 406 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: we have to understand the multiple perspecti those play because 407 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: the people who are getting these jobs are glad to 408 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,719 Speaker 1: be getting work, but you have to ask if they 409 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: are being treated fairly. And in many cases, whether we're 410 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: talking animation or farfiglookers, or semiconductors or iphotes, they're not 411 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: being treated fairly. So like, let's go back. Let's go 412 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: back to the u S to our hapless former employee. 413 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: They worked for Company A making farfiglogers. Company A moved 414 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: all their operations overseas, and they say, well, I'm great 415 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: at making these things. I have done this job for years, decades. 416 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: Potentially any competitor in a normal environment would love to 417 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: hire me. The problem is because outsourcing is contagious in 418 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: an industry, every single other company making this stuff has 419 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: also outsourced production. So now for this person, it doesn't 420 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: matter how good they are at their job, because their job, 421 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: in very real way no longer exists in their country. 422 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: And like, yes, of course, our our fictional product here 423 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: writing fake commercials, none of them are going to make 424 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: it in UH. This is a made up thing, but 425 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: the process is real and it has real consequences. UH. 426 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: The Economic Policy Institute found that American corporations alone outsourced 427 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: more than five million jobs in nine thousand plants from 428 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: n to last year. Well, I'm really thinking now back 429 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: given that to the animator example that we got for 430 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: the Simpsons we talked about, I guess it was like 431 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: lower level hires animators who would be doing the busy work. 432 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: Is not busy work, it's art, but it's creating the 433 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: actual animations between the key frames, right in order for 434 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: someone to become a key frame animator. To me, it 435 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: seems like you would need to have years of training 436 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: being that lower level of all animator just to understand 437 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: the process, to understand how it all flows, and to 438 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 1: gain those skills, right your journeyman or apprentice kind of 439 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: programs that maybe are a thing these days. So if 440 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: you if you're outsourcing that position from your company, that 441 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: lower level position where somebody needs to have that knowledge 442 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: to be a higher level position, it feels like outsourcing it, 443 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: you're going to lose your next batch of potential key 444 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: frame artists at your company, at least if you're growing 445 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 1: from within. It's a very astute observation. I think it's 446 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: a pipeline issue. And then the whole point here is 447 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: has been what you've got on the outline. If you 448 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: outsource like that, you're not just losing a particular job 449 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: or a particular product. You are outsourcing the critical knowledge 450 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: and skills and tools that you would need to further 451 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: along whatever process it is that that you have going 452 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: at your company, whatever product you're making, exactly. And this 453 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: this is potentially very very good for the insourcing industry, 454 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: and this is part of where things get muddy. So 455 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: this new manufacturing base starts to build its own supply chain. 456 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: That's that's the ideal passage, right, Why would you continue 457 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: importing lumber from the US If you are manufacturing base 458 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: is now relocated to the somewhere in the Pacific RIM, 459 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: You're going to find a closer, more affordable source of timber. 460 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: So this new supply chain begins to form, and then 461 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: research on whatever you're making tends to move to that 462 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: new country as well, because that's where things are happening, right. 463 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: People want to be where the things are happening. And 464 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: over time, this new manufacturing concern becomes its own thing 465 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: from stem to stern, and it can spin off into 466 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: a new entity for legal and tax purposes, UH and 467 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: also to remove account of bility on the part of 468 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: the US based company, and this example, the shareholders still 469 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: get their cut. The US employees and all their support 470 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: industries they get cut out, and eventually, and some critics 471 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,719 Speaker 1: argue inevitably, that US based company ends up building something 472 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: that later becomes its own competitor. So if you are, 473 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: if you're very, very pro outsourcing and you think it's 474 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: unfairly dumped on, just know that the consequences aren't just 475 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: for people, the normal people on either side of the equation. 476 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: These businesses build their own enemies sometimes and quite by accident, 477 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: quite by a myopic focus on the short term. And 478 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: while we're doing that, just gonna throw this in here. 479 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: We can talk about it later in the episode. Outsourcing 480 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: does also not infrequently lead to forced labor. That's right, 481 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realist. Outsourcing does lead to slavery. But we're 482 00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: talking hypothetically, you know, landscaping companies, whatever. If our the 483 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: glooger is, let's look at some real world examples. Uh. 484 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: This This came to us from Michael Collins over at 485 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: Industry Week, and he started to name some of the 486 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: biggest US companies that have outsourced. He says the biggest 487 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: outsources of American manufacturing jobs include General Electric, Caterpillar, Microsoft, Chevron, 488 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: United Technologies, General Motors, Ford, Georgia, Pacific, Harley Davidson, Kimberly, Clark, 489 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: Briggs and Stratton, honeywell merk IBM, Feiser, and Boeing. Good gracious, 490 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: that's like all of them. That's a lot. Yeah, I 491 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: mean yeah, not not certainly, not all of them. But again, 492 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's like you pay a premium for things 493 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: that are not outsourced, so even if they're not outsourcing, 494 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: they're passing on that cost to you the consumer a 495 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: lot of the time as well. Mm hmmm. And Collins 496 00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: did something really interesting. He was able to trace clients 497 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: in no less than thirty eight different manufacturing industries. He 498 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: started in two thousand two, and he said, let's pick 499 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: these thirty eight things and see, you know, how they're doing. 500 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: And what he found was, first, there were things you 501 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: would recognize um industries that are known to have outsourced extensively, 502 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: like furniture, right, cutlery, stuff like that. So he said, okay, 503 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: that makes sense, they're outsourcing. But then he found these 504 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: other industries that were indirectly affected by outsourcing. Mainly things 505 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: that are like mainly industries that are fundamental to making 506 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: other products. So industries that help make things that people 507 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: actually buy. We're talking machine tools, tool and die forging foundries, semiconductors. 508 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: You know, like you're you're probably not going to go 509 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: buy your own tool and die kit on a regular basis. 510 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: It's not a normal thing in every American household, but 511 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: it's the factory industry right exactly exactly, And Collins had 512 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: he Collins spent some time talking about semi conductors. He 513 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: said that in his own state and Oregon, Intel is 514 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: largest corporate employer, and they said they might outsource their 515 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: advanced chip production to their biggest competitor company called t 516 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: s MC. In Taiwan, US chip producers account for half 517 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: of the microchip designs in the world, but only of 518 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: the manufacturing, and that's because almost all of them have 519 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: already outsourced their production. Collins closes by saying Intel is 520 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: the only US based manufacturer of micro processors also semi 521 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: conductors in Taiwan. It's playing a big role in Taiwan 522 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: Chinese US tension right now, for sure. And he goes 523 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: on to state something here I'm gonna read a bit 524 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: of a quote. Uh, he states. In an open letter 525 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: to President Biden, Bob Swan, the CEO of Intel, asked 526 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: Biden to pursue a manufacturing strategy for the semiconductor industry, which, 527 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: according to the Boston Consulting Group, needs fifty billion dollars 528 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: in investment to survive. Uh. Okay, uh whoa so one 529 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: might ask. He continues, how did we get to this 530 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: point in the semiconductor industry where the industry needs a bailout? 531 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: And how many more outsourced industries will need the same 532 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: mm hmm. And again it's a long tail consequence. So 533 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: at this point you might be saying, that's fine. You know, 534 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: I'm aware of the problem, guys. I'm aware of the dangers. 535 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: I'm aware how complex this is. That's why I buy local. 536 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: That's why I go to a farmer's market, you know. 537 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: That's why I shop at a local craft fairs. That's uh. 538 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: That's why if I buy something in a store, I 539 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: make sure it says made in the USA. But what 540 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: does that actually mean. We'll tell you after a word 541 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Okay, this is this might sound weird 542 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,919 Speaker 1: to people who are who have not lived in the US. 543 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: Or haven't spent much time here. You when you go 544 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: into a store, you're pretty likely to see at least 545 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: a few products that have a stamp on them or 546 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: might be sewn into it if it's a shirt or something, 547 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 1: and says made in the USA for people who are 548 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: opponents of outsourcing or concerned about it. This makes you 549 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: feel good. It's kind of warm and fuzzy. You know, 550 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: I'm paying a little premium, sure, but I am somehow, 551 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:54,399 Speaker 1: however indirectly supporting other people in the US, and I'm 552 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,839 Speaker 1: supporting wage and labor standards. Bruce Springsteen would be proud. 553 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: Brew Springsteen would be so stoked right now. I wish 554 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: he was in this t J Max with me, But 555 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: that's unfortunately not always the case. There's a story behind 556 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,280 Speaker 1: those labels, and this is a story that made international 557 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: news a number of years ago, but it doesn't get 558 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: brought up too often now. It's the case of the 559 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: Northern Marianas. So this involves political corruption, uh part of it. 560 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: It got a lot of pressed due to the Jack 561 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: Abramoff lobbying scandal. Just let you know where we are 562 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: in time. There were these recruiters who would go to 563 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: different areas of China, the Philippines, and Bangladesh, and then 564 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: they would lure guest workers by saying, hey, come, you know, 565 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: we've got a job opportunity for you in the United States. 566 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: We will take care of all the legal stuff, all 567 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: the immigration stuff. Don't worry about it. And they these 568 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: folks would agree. It sounded like a good deal. It 569 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: sounds like a good faith offer, which very much was not. 570 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: They were not taken to the mainland United States. They 571 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: were taken to the Northern Marianas and there they were 572 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: essentially forced into sweatshop labor. You can hear um a 573 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 1: great a short interview on MPR with some human rights 574 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: activists and some former employees of this scam. But because 575 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: of political corruption in the US and in this island region, 576 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: in many cases, these folks were working as little more 577 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: than enslaved people. Like barbed wire preventing you from leaving 578 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: the factory. Uh, impossible to meet quotas. You're already kind 579 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,720 Speaker 1: of a wage slave because they charge you five thousand 580 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: dollars to go, and then you gotta pay it back. 581 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 1: You gotta work. Essentially, it's indentured servicey because you're working 582 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: to pay that back and sometimes don't they confiscate your 583 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: visa and passport and things like that. Well, also it 584 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: gets worse than that. They also um for for women 585 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: working there. They would sometimes be forced into sex work allegedly, 586 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: that's what some of the survivors said, or forced to 587 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: work in clubs at night. But since the Mariannas you see, 588 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: became a US commonwealth in nineteen seventies six, these companies 589 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: stamped made in the USA on all their sweatshops slash 590 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: slave labor made products, clothing, and so on, and this 591 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: loophole allowed them to get around import quotas and duties, 592 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,760 Speaker 1: you name it. Business was great human misery. However, at 593 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: on the island was at an all time high. This 594 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: is a little different, but I heard a piece on 595 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: in PR the other day from a guy who was 596 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: a very top level guy at Adidas, and he was 597 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: really sick of all the like fashion waste, Like there's 598 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: a lot of like you know, um plastics for throwing, yeah, exactly. 599 00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: So he wanted to start a company that, like you know, 600 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: was was trendy and fashionable, but used entirely plant based materials. 601 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: He pointed out something that I thought was interesting, and 602 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: I didn't know that is very similar to what you're 603 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: talking about in terms of the claim made in the USA, 604 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: the claim of one cotton uh, that is also largely 605 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,919 Speaker 1: bs uh and it is it has to do more 606 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: with legal um designations for duties and import and export 607 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: taxes than it does the actual reality of the garment. 608 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: Because I think as long as like the base part 609 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: of it is made of cotton, any of the little 610 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: rings or the edges around the necks and sleeves and 611 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: all that stuff can be made of you know, God 612 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: knows what um rayon or like, you know, a polyester 613 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 1: rather that's like got the plastic stuff in it, y'all 614 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: on a we by on cotton. Do not imply that 615 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: the entirety of the goverment in question is cotton. However, 616 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: the cotton that is within this garment, we argue, is 617 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,919 Speaker 1: one cotton, and one percent of it was in fact 618 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: picked by slaves of wage slaves at the very least. 619 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: I'm I'm sorry, and we're not that far removed telling 620 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 1: you when you get into the prison stuff and like, 621 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: all of this kind of stuff just makes you realize 622 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: how toothless so many of these laws are, and how 623 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: easy it is for these giant corporations to circumvent all 624 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: this stuff and just do whatever they want just like 625 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: it used to be. But it just can't happen exactly 626 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: on American soil. But they still sanction the same horrendous 627 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: practices that have been you know, happening for for you 628 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: know generations. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, Made in the 629 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: USA doesn't always mean what it appears to mean, and that, 630 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: like the Crooked Laws, is very much a conspiracy and 631 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: it's very much by design. Really quickly, I want to 632 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: give one more example of a larger example like this 633 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: before we jump to call centers, because I think that's 634 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: one of the main things that at least I think 635 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 1: about when I think about our outsourced jobs and how 636 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 1: I interact with the jobs that I know for sure 637 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: are being outsourced. Uh. There's a video from Vice News 638 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: that was released in two thousand nineteen, and it is 639 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: it's titled America's newest outsourced job of public school teachers. 640 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,879 Speaker 1: So just really quickly, guys, this is speaking of this 641 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,800 Speaker 1: weird relationship that you have with some third party company 642 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,720 Speaker 1: that is going to get you a job somewhere else 643 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 1: or you know, from somewhere else. And then you having 644 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: to pay that company for the privilege of getting that job, 645 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 1: and then it can potentially become a situation where you're 646 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 1: just having to pay that company back over and over 647 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 1: and over again to to work off whatever debt you have. 648 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,359 Speaker 1: There's a company called Trades and Professions Incorporated that does 649 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: something really potentially helpful. They acquire J one visas, which 650 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: are these specific visas that are meant to be given 651 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 1: uh to educators to come over from another country to 652 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: the United States to fill a teaching position that's vacant 653 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,839 Speaker 1: within the US. And this company, Trades and Professions Incorporated, 654 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: specifically gets teachers to come over from the Philippines and 655 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 1: a teaching job in the Philippines in one example they've 656 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: given that video is around four thousand dollars a year 657 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: at least a starting teaching position, and they're then offered 658 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,280 Speaker 1: a position in the United States for fifty four thousand 659 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: dollars a year. And the the huge difference in there 660 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: means that there's a high demand for teachers in the 661 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: Philippines to come over to the US and teach. But 662 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: the thing is, in order to get that job, you 663 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: have to pay Trades and Professions I think it's around 664 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: twelve thousand dollars US just to get the visa and 665 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: the job position, which means then if you're only making 666 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,840 Speaker 1: four thousand a year and you've got all your expenses, 667 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 1: you're paying that debt off for a long time until 668 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: I guess the first money comes in at least from 669 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: the teaching position in the US. They'll make a deal 670 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: with you because they want you right, so they'll let 671 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: you go into debt. It's part of it's part of 672 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: the game. Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned call centers too, 673 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: So this is These are multiple industries. I'm sure, um, 674 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: all of us listening today we'll have our own examples 675 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: and maybe personal experience with these. But for many people 676 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: who say, you know, I'm not really thinking about things 677 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 1: on a global scale. I got my own stuff going 678 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: on here. Uh, your experience with call centers might be 679 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: your most direct experience with outsourcing. Because products are not 680 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:36,919 Speaker 1: the only things outsourced. Skills services those are outsourced as well. 681 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,400 Speaker 1: Many many people have called a company to find that 682 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: their phone service has been outsourced to another country, and 683 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 1: in a lot of tragic cases, those people calling also 684 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 1: outsourced their racism to the absolutely innocent people on the 685 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 1: other end of the line. There was this study in 686 00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen that went across UH several call centers 687 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: in India for two years, and they found that it 688 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: was known and normalized and to a degree expected by 689 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 1: these workers that they would be targeted with racial abuse 690 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,840 Speaker 1: from callers in the US in particular. And that's another 691 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: wrinkle in the corporate conspiracy of outsourcing, because some opponents 692 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,440 Speaker 1: of outsourcing across the line from supporting the US economy 693 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:34,240 Speaker 1: or worrying about long long term erosion of the country, 694 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,360 Speaker 1: and they start becoming pretty stridently racist in their rhetoric, 695 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,239 Speaker 1: and so they conjure up these completely untrue caricatures of 696 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,319 Speaker 1: these you know, scheming villains on foreign shows out to 697 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,320 Speaker 1: ruin that country instead of you know, just being people 698 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: like almost everyone else across the planet, people who just 699 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,240 Speaker 1: need a job, you know. And you have to remember 700 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,960 Speaker 1: the villains, the people that you are actually mad at, 701 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: are never the people who answer the phone when you 702 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 1: call those companies. You you know, there are a few 703 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,359 Speaker 1: companies that I'm totally on the record having no respect for, 704 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,400 Speaker 1: but I know that the volks that the call centers 705 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: don't get consulted about these positions that these companies take. 706 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: So just exercise and empathy. Be nice to them. You 707 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,399 Speaker 1: know they're they're doing their best, just as you are, 708 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: and they have been hired by the people you're actually 709 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,000 Speaker 1: mad at to be sort of a scrimmage line, a 710 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: buffer between you and them. Don't forget that. Now. That's 711 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,800 Speaker 1: even that's if you even get a person, right, because 712 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,320 Speaker 1: I mean, how many menus do you have to navigate 713 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: and like automated voice responses, you know, telling the computer 714 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,799 Speaker 1: what you actually are calling for before you finally just 715 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 1: hit zero enough times they give you a person. They 716 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: don't want to give you a person. That's that's that's 717 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 1: that's a premium. They want your problem to be solved 718 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,439 Speaker 1: by uh bots, you know, artificial intelligence to some degree, 719 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: and you could argue that that's not particularly intelligent artificial intelligence. 720 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 1: A lot of these systems are pretty antiquated. But with 721 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 1: the advent of like voice recognition and like, you know, 722 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,799 Speaker 1: being able to feed input into the phone and have 723 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,839 Speaker 1: it kind of understand generally what you want and give 724 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,480 Speaker 1: you some sort of solution, that's definitely somewhat next level 725 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 1: but still pretty clunky. But that's going to improve because 726 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,680 Speaker 1: it's in the best interest of these companies to improve 727 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 1: that technology, which means they're gonna need fewer and fewer 728 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: of those outsourced jobs because outsourcing to robots and artificial 729 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: intelligence and the computer systems and neural nets makes a 730 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,719 Speaker 1: whole lot more sense, and it's much more scalable and 731 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 1: doesn't require any of that human capital until you need installation, 732 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,600 Speaker 1: right right. Uh, well, there's something that I think we 733 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,960 Speaker 1: need to mention. I've mentioned this in previous episodes, and 734 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 1: it always seems to need more visibility. There's another advantage 735 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,760 Speaker 1: to those voice systems, which is that it creates another 736 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,840 Speaker 1: revenue stream, the revenue stream in which you do not 737 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 1: take a cut, but it uses your audio patterns. Right, 738 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,840 Speaker 1: Those can be sold, Those can be monetized, so be 739 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,879 Speaker 1: very aware of that. That is why I have made 740 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:28,799 Speaker 1: the decision to do my utmost due diligence avoiding those 741 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,760 Speaker 1: voice recognition things. And it really, you know, it doesn't 742 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:36,600 Speaker 1: even matter for me. We like, I host multiple podcast 743 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:38,839 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. My voice is out there. 744 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,360 Speaker 1: It's that that ship has sailed for all three of 745 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,880 Speaker 1: us here. Ben, I hate to break this to you, 746 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: but you have a an AI version of your voice now, so, yeah, 747 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 1: that ship has sailed. Um. But I also I gotta 748 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: say I don't feel as as guilty being rumpy with 749 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 1: an AI uh as as you might with you know, 750 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,880 Speaker 1: an outsourced human. Um. So I make it a habit. 751 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,240 Speaker 1: Every time I do respond to one of these systems, 752 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,200 Speaker 1: I do it and the grumpiest voice possible and just 753 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: sound completely you know, and it's real. I'm not putting 754 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 1: it on. I'm just kind of like, no, yes, I'll 755 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:23,680 Speaker 1: do an accent. Sometimes I get a person, please, I'll 756 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,120 Speaker 1: see what slang I can for. There's a couple of 757 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:32,799 Speaker 1: companies that require quote unquote require a verbal yes or 758 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 1: something to end a call or pull an action, and 759 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,359 Speaker 1: I always try to see what I can get away with, 760 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,319 Speaker 1: Like how much slang for yes? Does this algorithm or 761 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:45,960 Speaker 1: the software no so you know, affirmative or green lit? 762 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:50,480 Speaker 1: Buddy for real? For real? No cap on god right 763 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:55,560 Speaker 1: right right right? And uh uh let's see, Oh, go 764 00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,480 Speaker 1: nuts does not work for some reason. It's like, would 765 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,160 Speaker 1: you like to continue with this payment? Yeah? Go nuts? 766 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:08,799 Speaker 1: What about let's do it? I hate that one so much. 767 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 1: Mat you have any idea how my blood boils anytime 768 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,240 Speaker 1: I see somebody bragging about a thing on the Internet, 769 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,160 Speaker 1: followed by let's go, we're so cool, let's do the thing. 770 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:19,840 Speaker 1: I just hate it. I don't know why, it just 771 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,680 Speaker 1: it's just so douchey to me. I for a long 772 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 1: time I probably mentioned this for but for a long time, 773 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:31,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know what ft W meant. I thought it 774 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,799 Speaker 1: means for the wind. I thought it meant and beat 775 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,839 Speaker 1: me here, Paul. I thought it meant the world. And 776 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,360 Speaker 1: so I would see these people saying these really happy, 777 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,600 Speaker 1: nice things like oh, look who just got uh you 778 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:48,560 Speaker 1: know her phdo class of twenty twenty ft W, and 779 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:53,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, that's what is your degree? And stuff 780 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,560 Speaker 1: like people would say like, oh right, you know it's 781 00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 1: um it's little Hammy's first day of second grade or something. 782 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:07,560 Speaker 1: Big things ahead ft W. Do you hate your child? 783 00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:15,879 Speaker 1: For Hanfred might be Hamish? Yeah, uh but but yeah 784 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: so internet acronyms and uh slang for yes aside, tell 785 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,880 Speaker 1: us your favorite ridiculous thing to say to an automated line. 786 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 1: That's true. That's the future of what we consider outsourcing. 787 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,560 Speaker 1: The next wave of outsourcing is gonna involve fewer and 788 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,800 Speaker 1: fewer people jobs won't be going to workers in other countries, 789 00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,680 Speaker 1: as we said, they'll be going to automated systems. But Matt, 790 00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,680 Speaker 1: you raised a great point. There are some industries that 791 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:48,880 Speaker 1: are much more difficult to outsource for any number of reasons, 792 00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,959 Speaker 1: and one of those big reasons is the physical requirements 793 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,960 Speaker 1: of work. So I was thinking a good example, I 794 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,239 Speaker 1: hope this makes sense. You can buy any number of 795 00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:02,080 Speaker 1: pipes and fittings made almost anywhere on the planet, but 796 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,360 Speaker 1: you need a plumber to physically be there to install 797 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 1: a plumbing system for now at least, well, but you've 798 00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,960 Speaker 1: got those like Boston Dynamic robots, you know, that are 799 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,600 Speaker 1: like approaching the ability to be like tech bots that 800 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,319 Speaker 1: could come in and install your modem and drill the 801 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,759 Speaker 1: holes and run the thing. It requires camera, you know, recognition, 802 00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,319 Speaker 1: and like things maybe aren't quite there yet. But do 803 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,919 Speaker 1: you really think that these companies that we're talking about 804 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,680 Speaker 1: are gonna hesitate one iota once the technology is there. 805 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,000 Speaker 1: I mean, we already see the groundwork being laid for this, 806 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,400 Speaker 1: like in terms of like self checkout kiosks at grocery stores, 807 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,560 Speaker 1: and you know, these jobs that are just eventually going 808 00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,480 Speaker 1: to disappear. But what happened to those people? Whe Where 809 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,839 Speaker 1: do they go? Like what? Like this is not a 810 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: very thought out, like humane, big picture outlook. Eventually it's 811 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,279 Speaker 1: just gonna lead to like more homelessness and then what 812 00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 1: what's what's next? What what dys topia follows? We just 813 00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 1: execute these people like who don't who are unemployable? Like 814 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,359 Speaker 1: told this, Yeah, there's I called I like to call 815 00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:08,200 Speaker 1: this discrepancy the post work economy versus the post worker economy. 816 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,839 Speaker 1: So where yes, there is a possibility for some sort 817 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:17,600 Speaker 1: of utopian star trek post scarcity world where people don't 818 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,600 Speaker 1: have to have a job due to the grind of 819 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:25,440 Speaker 1: the strange ideology of capitalism. But between now and between 820 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:30,319 Speaker 1: that future era, there is another very dangerous era, which 821 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,440 Speaker 1: is going to be the post worker economy, being a 822 00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,839 Speaker 1: world in which humans still live, billions of them, and 823 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,560 Speaker 1: they still need the same basic things, yet they do 824 00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,920 Speaker 1: not have the opportunity to earn those things, leading to 825 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,160 Speaker 1: stuff like neo feudalism the rise of a new global 826 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,680 Speaker 1: peasant class. That's why it's important to think, like going 827 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,160 Speaker 1: back to the ocean analogy, it's important to think of 828 00:51:55,160 --> 00:52:00,200 Speaker 1: outsourcing as a wave because it affects the destination country 829 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:02,560 Speaker 1: as well. Let me break down the system real quick. 830 00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,440 Speaker 1: So new opportunities. Right, your country is insourced some stuff. 831 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:11,520 Speaker 1: You're you're you live in China in the mid ninety nineties. Right, 832 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,040 Speaker 1: there's a new factory opening up. You can get a 833 00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,920 Speaker 1: new job. It's one of the highest paying jobs you've 834 00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:21,720 Speaker 1: ever had. This creates a growing economy, which leads often 835 00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:26,560 Speaker 1: to a growing middle class, which leads to pushes, collective 836 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 1: pushes for more rights, higher wages, things like that wall 837 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,960 Speaker 1: of which leads that original company that outsourced in the 838 00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,920 Speaker 1: first place to pick up their toys and go to 839 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,760 Speaker 1: a different country because now that other countries cheaper, which 840 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:46,080 Speaker 1: just starts the process over and over again. It's a 841 00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,840 Speaker 1: feedback loop. It's a title system. Yeah, there's only so 842 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,080 Speaker 1: much landmass on this planet to be able to do 843 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,200 Speaker 1: that for a limited amount of time. Don't ever say 844 00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:00,920 Speaker 1: that about capitalism. It's continued growth. Nobody too far ahead. 845 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,600 Speaker 1: Once the moon colonies are making all the earth stuff, 846 00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,799 Speaker 1: we'll just continue to outsource. Can I can you kind 847 00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,600 Speaker 1: of add the like that this robotic outsourcing isn't just 848 00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:15,919 Speaker 1: limited to like entry level or low wage jobs. I mean, 849 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,800 Speaker 1: we jokingly mentioned the whole AI representation of our voices 850 00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,160 Speaker 1: that we did as part of this pilot program to 851 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,440 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's reasons to do it to like 852 00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,040 Speaker 1: geo target advertisements and things, so we don't actually have 853 00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:29,600 Speaker 1: to do it every time or do a read for 854 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:34,560 Speaker 1: each one. But given advancement, further advancement of that kind 855 00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,680 Speaker 1: of technology, could you replace any personality, whether it be 856 00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,640 Speaker 1: a talking head on television using deep fake technology like 857 00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:45,000 Speaker 1: that um that I believe was it North Korean or 858 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,520 Speaker 1: a Japanese politician. We did a whole episode about this. Yeah, 859 00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,480 Speaker 1: exactly what I'm saying, Like, there's a world where you 860 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,200 Speaker 1: don't that the idea, Oh no, we we've we're safe 861 00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:58,080 Speaker 1: because we have personalities or artists are safe because an 862 00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,279 Speaker 1: AI could never generate the same kind of you know, 863 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,879 Speaker 1: inspirational material that like a human mind could. But given 864 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,719 Speaker 1: enough time, a are people going to care and be 865 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,399 Speaker 1: will the technology be such that it's almost indistinguishable from 866 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,800 Speaker 1: the output of a quote unquote creative mind or an artist, 867 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,840 Speaker 1: right like a touring test threshold? Yet, I mean again, 868 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:23,200 Speaker 1: I know the phrase artificial intelligence is far from perfect. 869 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,480 Speaker 1: You know, what we're aiming for is like a consciousness, 870 00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:31,759 Speaker 1: whether regardless of its origins. But right now those algorithms 871 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:36,839 Speaker 1: and that software they are replacing very like um rarefied 872 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:42,160 Speaker 1: cognitive work, you know from the edges of math two. 873 00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:47,360 Speaker 1: Weapon design. In an earlier Strange News segment a while back, 874 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:53,399 Speaker 1: I believe we talked about a some software that had 875 00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:57,600 Speaker 1: already made improvements to some weaponry I believe in China 876 00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,200 Speaker 1: as well. So it's on the way, that's that's what 877 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,160 Speaker 1: you need to know. Like the the car has already 878 00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,719 Speaker 1: careened off the road, we're heading for the tree. You 879 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,520 Speaker 1: just have to decide what you're gonna do when when 880 00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,359 Speaker 1: the car hits the tree. And and the main thing 881 00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,120 Speaker 1: to remember is again, not everybody thinks it is bad. 882 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,000 Speaker 1: Proponents of free market ideology say that, yeah, this practice 883 00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,920 Speaker 1: is imperfect, but ultimately it is a net benefit. Ultimately 884 00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,200 Speaker 1: is a greater good for everybody involved. And while that's possible, 885 00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:32,359 Speaker 1: it's also not always the case, and to pretend otherwise 886 00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:38,000 Speaker 1: is willfully purposely misleading, often for short term profits, by 887 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,800 Speaker 1: the way. So yeah, we have to remember, at least 888 00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,600 Speaker 1: here in our little corner of the world in the US, 889 00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,480 Speaker 1: outsourcing is only going to continue, and the people on 890 00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,719 Speaker 1: either side of the equation. The non shareholders, I mean, 891 00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,799 Speaker 1: they're not the villains here, not at all. They are 892 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,800 Speaker 1: the grass on the battlefield. And as the old saying goes, 893 00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,840 Speaker 1: when elephants wage war, it's the grass that suffers. And 894 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,319 Speaker 1: in many cases, that's something those companies don't want you 895 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,600 Speaker 1: to know. Ben No, I figured out the real villain 896 00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:14,560 Speaker 1: of this story. It's twa it's toal sources. No, it's globalization. 897 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:19,080 Speaker 1: I don't think companies were ever should have ever been 898 00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,680 Speaker 1: able to grow as large as they have. I don't 899 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,600 Speaker 1: think you were supposed to be able to ship your 900 00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:31,439 Speaker 1: goods from you know, across the Pacific two, then manufacture 901 00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,640 Speaker 1: them in a different country than ship those pieced together 902 00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,080 Speaker 1: parts back to your country, then assemble them, then ship 903 00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:43,400 Speaker 1: them back as finalized products across the Pacific to the 904 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,840 Speaker 1: country that put them together. Not to mention all the 905 00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:50,239 Speaker 1: added pollution that all of that transit adds to the equation, 906 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,440 Speaker 1: you know, shipping things back and forth and back and 907 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,759 Speaker 1: forth across the ocean. I mean, think about those uh 908 00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:04,320 Speaker 1: consequences and what were yeah, what were you going to 909 00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,440 Speaker 1: say that the wrong time that was supposed to happen, 910 00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,640 Speaker 1: That wasn't supposed to happen. That was supposed to be 911 00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,680 Speaker 1: something that we all collectively realized, Oh, that's wasteful, that 912 00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:13,600 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Why would we do that. We don't 913 00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:16,560 Speaker 1: have to have one company that sells all of the 914 00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:23,680 Speaker 1: hamburgers to every country, like Hamburger, Hamburger. I'm just saying, 915 00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,280 Speaker 1: hamburgers are great, but you could sell them. You know, 916 00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,640 Speaker 1: a company that's on that side of specific sells those 917 00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:31,600 Speaker 1: hamburgers and they're awesome and they do a great job. 918 00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,360 Speaker 1: You worst timeline though, too, you know where It's like, 919 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:40,680 Speaker 1: what I'm hearing is that you hate fun, you like parties? 920 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:45,360 Speaker 1: How about lemonade? Do you do you like chuckolate? And 921 00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,720 Speaker 1: I'm being somewhat facetious, but I do. It does feel 922 00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,800 Speaker 1: like there's a route to the problem, and it's just 923 00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:59,200 Speaker 1: that certain companies needed to continue growing in order to 924 00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:03,040 Speaker 1: sus saying themselves like you had to continue growing. It's 925 00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,680 Speaker 1: the whole welcome we we we we knew that we could, 926 00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,000 Speaker 1: but didn't stop to think if we should, you know, 927 00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:11,840 Speaker 1: because we were not in the We're not in the 928 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:19,000 Speaker 1: long term consequences game here in America. The species of 929 00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:23,320 Speaker 1: humanity completely good at it. But yeah, no, I I 930 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,480 Speaker 1: agree with you guys completely. I mean, you have to 931 00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,240 Speaker 1: ask yourself how we are. I always like to think 932 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,000 Speaker 1: of it this way when some when you're trying to 933 00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:36,320 Speaker 1: figure out if something is a net good or positive, 934 00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,200 Speaker 1: or you know, when you're trying to suss out complex issues, 935 00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:46,680 Speaker 1: it's really helpful to say, Okay, years from now, if 936 00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:50,240 Speaker 1: humans are around, some version will be uh, what will 937 00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:54,760 Speaker 1: those future historians think? How will they describe what I'm 938 00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,280 Speaker 1: talking about or what I'm thinking about? And in the 939 00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:03,720 Speaker 1: case of future historians thing get a multinational corporations, private 940 00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:07,840 Speaker 1: for profit entities, they'll point out that it's pretty weird 941 00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:12,880 Speaker 1: for something to exist that's so large and has so 942 00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:19,200 Speaker 1: few actual responsibilities. Right. Imagine being an entity so powerful 943 00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:23,120 Speaker 1: that if you don't like the laws of one country, 944 00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:27,680 Speaker 1: you can either go to one of the other countries 945 00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:31,439 Speaker 1: you have a presence in, or you can just try 946 00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:35,560 Speaker 1: hard enough and get those laws changed. Those are superpowers, 947 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,400 Speaker 1: and they may be too much for any one group 948 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,040 Speaker 1: of people to be quite honest, and unless those people 949 00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,320 Speaker 1: are a government, and even then with a government, it's 950 00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:48,560 Speaker 1: like a case by case basis. We are so fun 951 00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:56,800 Speaker 1: at parties eliminate is tasty, but generate is for the birds, 952 00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:01,840 Speaker 1: just just nihilism and misery for me, please and science. Well, folks, 953 01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:05,440 Speaker 1: now we are going to outsource the rest of our 954 01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:09,120 Speaker 1: show to you. What do you think about outsourcing? Do 955 01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,720 Speaker 1: you have the answer, because we'll we'll put it on air. 956 01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,280 Speaker 1: Have you been personally affected by this tactic in a 957 01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:18,920 Speaker 1: negative or a positive way? Because again, not everyone is 958 01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:22,200 Speaker 1: an opponent of it. Who should bear the responsibility? This 959 01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:24,880 Speaker 1: is one of the most important questions to me. Right, So, 960 01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,560 Speaker 1: a lot of companies use outsourcing as a way to 961 01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:33,240 Speaker 1: purposely turn a blind eye to things like forced labor. 962 01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,840 Speaker 1: And they can say, hey, we outsourced this. Our job 963 01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,280 Speaker 1: is just to pay them x and they deliver why 964 01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,800 Speaker 1: on a quarterly basis? Right? And we visited the factory 965 01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:47,760 Speaker 1: once and everything seemed fine and dandy. Right, But why, like, 966 01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:54,480 Speaker 1: how legitimate is that argument? Who should bear the responsibility 967 01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:59,600 Speaker 1: for those abuses? And should the US take substance steps 968 01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:03,200 Speaker 1: to bring those domestic industries back from decline or is 969 01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,640 Speaker 1: this all just kind of how the sausage gets made? 970 01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:09,240 Speaker 1: Is this just a function of global progress? We don't 971 01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:15,919 Speaker 1: know sausage. Yeah, let us Yeah, it's about lunchtime over here. 972 01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,400 Speaker 1: So we're gonna call it. But guys, just really quickly, 973 01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:20,880 Speaker 1: you got to go on Food Court with Richard Blaze, 974 01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, years ago to talk about bacon versus sausage. Uh. 975 01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:28,400 Speaker 1: And I just got to go on there yesterday and 976 01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:30,680 Speaker 1: record an episode that I don't know when it's coming out, 977 01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:33,400 Speaker 1: but I had so much fun and we basically talked 978 01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:37,600 Speaker 1: about you guys the whole time as to what you 979 01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:42,800 Speaker 1: were defending or yeah better, I can't say I like that. 980 01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:46,880 Speaker 1: I like by the laws of Food Court, Yes, serious, 981 01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,560 Speaker 1: serious laws. Yeah yeah, what a fun show. And what 982 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,320 Speaker 1: a cool guy with excellent hair. He's such a nice 983 01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,280 Speaker 1: person too. He's fun to hang out with. But yeah, 984 01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:56,960 Speaker 1: you can check out Food Court. I can't wait to 985 01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,640 Speaker 1: hear your episode, matt Um while people. Actually, I'm gonna 986 01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:02,360 Speaker 1: bug you about this soft air and see if we 987 01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,840 Speaker 1: can get a lot get get around in those pesky 988 01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,840 Speaker 1: food Court laws. Right. Well, we're just we're just talking 989 01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,080 Speaker 1: behind the curtain. But in the meantime, if you're online, 990 01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,280 Speaker 1: if you have answers to these questions were questions of 991 01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,080 Speaker 1: your own, we'd love to hear from you. We try 992 01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:17,960 Speaker 1: to be easy to find on the internet. That's right. 993 01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:19,720 Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook, you can find us 994 01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,080 Speaker 1: on YouTube, but you can find us on Twitter at 995 01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:25,200 Speaker 1: the handle Conspiracy Stuff on Instagram or Conspiracy Stuff Show. 996 01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:29,840 Speaker 1: But you can also you know, throw the social media 997 01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,800 Speaker 1: to the winds and and and find us elsewhere. We 998 01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,880 Speaker 1: have a telephone number where you can reach us. Yeah, 999 01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:38,320 Speaker 1: so number is one eight three three st d w 1000 01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,880 Speaker 1: y t K. Give it a call. Tell me about 1001 01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:45,280 Speaker 1: your character on Diablo Immortal because that just came out 1002 01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,400 Speaker 1: and you know playing, or tell me because I get 1003 01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:53,400 Speaker 1: in I get into voicemail too. After your life fifth 1004 01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:56,680 Speaker 1: fully leveled up elden Ring character, you need something else 1005 01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:00,840 Speaker 1: to occupy your time. I suppose absolutely us call It's 1006 01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:02,560 Speaker 1: not just me. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to implay. 1007 01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,120 Speaker 1: It's just me. I just want to personally hear about 1008 01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:09,240 Speaker 1: your You're one point. That's what we want to establish. 1009 01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:13,680 Speaker 1: That be aware there's a non zero chance that Matt 1010 01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:17,160 Speaker 1: Frederick may call you back. The abyss can call back. 1011 01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,000 Speaker 1: You're not an abyss. I just love that Nietzsche quote. 1012 01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:25,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, we list we we uh, we check 1013 01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:29,120 Speaker 1: on the socials. We've got some exciting stuff coming out 1014 01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,200 Speaker 1: some of which we can tell you about, and we 1015 01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,760 Speaker 1: read every email we get. If there is something you 1016 01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:39,439 Speaker 1: want to tell us that needs a deeper dive than 1017 01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:42,920 Speaker 1: a post on you know, the instagrams of the world, 1018 01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:46,880 Speaker 1: or something that needs some links, some photographs, et cetera, 1019 01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:49,520 Speaker 1: we can't wait to hear it. Take us to the 1020 01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,240 Speaker 1: edge of the rabbit hole and we'll do our best 1021 01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,080 Speaker 1: to find where it ends. We read every single email 1022 01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:56,720 Speaker 1: we get. All you have to do is shoot us 1023 01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,640 Speaker 1: a line where we are conspiracy at I Heart Radio 1024 01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:20,560 Speaker 1: duct on Stuff they Don't want you to know is 1025 01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,600 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from 1026 01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:26,720 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1027 01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:28,640 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.