WEBVTT - Jahnavi: How to Create Inner Calm When Life Feels Overwhelming (THIS Simple Daily Practice When Your Mind Won't Stop!) 

0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.200
<v Speaker 1>There's so many different ways that people pray. For some

0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:06.199
<v Speaker 1>people it's very spontaneous. Some people have a very ritualized

0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:09.880
<v Speaker 1>way of placing their body in a certain position or

0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:13.440
<v Speaker 1>doing certain actions. I think all of those things are

0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.040
<v Speaker 1>designed to bring us into a certain state of mind

0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:23.000
<v Speaker 1>and of being that allows can allow you to express

0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.440
<v Speaker 1>some of these deepest sentiments that are otherwise quite hard

0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:27.200
<v Speaker 1>to access.

0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.479
<v Speaker 2>Hey, everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you

0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.360
<v Speaker 2>come to become the happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's

0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.440
<v Speaker 2>guest is one of my dearest friends of the last

0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:41.800
<v Speaker 2>twenty years. But she's also one of the most talented musicians.

0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:45.040
<v Speaker 2>She uses music not just to entertain, but to heal.

0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Joanavi is a devotional singer, writer, and artist whose voice

0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.360
<v Speaker 2>has become a refuge for people searching for peace and

0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:58.880
<v Speaker 2>spiritual grounding. Through her performances, recordings, and global workshops, Joanavi

0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.200
<v Speaker 2>has devoted her life life to helping people experience the

0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:07.280
<v Speaker 2>power of mantra, meditation and sacred sound. Her work invites

0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.520
<v Speaker 2>us to pause, breathe, and reconnect with our inner life,

0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:16.280
<v Speaker 2>and she's also been nominated for her very first Grammy.

0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.360
<v Speaker 2>If you're part of the Academy. This is my personal request,

0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.440
<v Speaker 2>go and vote for her. I'm so excited to welcome

0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:26.640
<v Speaker 2>to Omburburse my dear friend, Janavi Harrison Janevie. Is so

0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:28.240
<v Speaker 2>wonderful to have you here.

0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:32.320
<v Speaker 1>I just got a massive confidence boost you.

0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:34.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I just want to let people know. So

0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.840
<v Speaker 2>I've known you now for like twenty years, and i

0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.680
<v Speaker 2>met you through our temple and Spiritual community in London,

0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:43.720
<v Speaker 2>which is where we first met, and we would have

0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:48.520
<v Speaker 2>both been at college or something like that. And I

0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:52.040
<v Speaker 2>am so fortunate and so excited about this because sometimes

0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.760
<v Speaker 2>I post these pictures of me on the on social

0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.360
<v Speaker 2>media which are like how it started, how it's going,

0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.600
<v Speaker 2>and all of those how it started, so many of

0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.640
<v Speaker 2>them were with you. So me and Janavie for everyone

0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:06.040
<v Speaker 2>who doesn't know, what we would do is we would

0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.440
<v Speaker 2>do events together where I would speak and Janavie would

0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:11.960
<v Speaker 2>lead Montreal meditation and we would like that was like

0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.400
<v Speaker 2>our duo tag team, yeah exactly, and we travel all

0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:17.919
<v Speaker 2>over England. We did events in London, we did events

0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:22.079
<v Speaker 2>in Weymouth, we did events Cambridge, Cambridge, we did events

0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.480
<v Speaker 2>in maybe Oxford. We would do events and we've done

0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.320
<v Speaker 2>this for years together and that's always what we did.

0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:30.880
<v Speaker 2>It was always our due. And then since I moved

0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.600
<v Speaker 2>to La Jehanevie comes to my house every single year

0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:36.880
<v Speaker 2>and we do an event where rather you will organize

0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.160
<v Speaker 2>this beautiful gathering of all of our friends and Ghanavie

0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.920
<v Speaker 2>will lead a meditation and people are always so moved

0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:46.240
<v Speaker 2>and just it's pretty amazing, Like thinking about being friends

0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:49.480
<v Speaker 2>for twenty years and seeing our relationship has always been

0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:53.480
<v Speaker 2>service based of wanting to give spiritual experiences to others.

0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.160
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, you lived with us during

0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:01.280
<v Speaker 2>the pandemic. I do for a few months, I think. Yeah,

0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.280
<v Speaker 2>So I'm really excited because rarely do I get to

0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:05.240
<v Speaker 2>sit with someone that I've known for twenty years on

0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.720
<v Speaker 2>the show. Yeah, and I'm so excited you've been nominated

0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.520
<v Speaker 2>for a Grammy. It's like thank you when you mentor

0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:16.880
<v Speaker 2>historical occasion for you know, our whole tradition. Yeah, and

0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:22.360
<v Speaker 2>to really see that just how far you've taken spiritual

0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.160
<v Speaker 2>montra music to help people, and it's such a How

0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:26.200
<v Speaker 2>does it feel, I mean.

0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:29.959
<v Speaker 1>It's it's a huge honor and like you said, it's

0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.359
<v Speaker 1>it feels like an honor, not you know, it's it's

0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:37.320
<v Speaker 1>part of our training. And I think that the spiritual

0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.880
<v Speaker 1>tradition that I've grown up in that you know, you

0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:42.320
<v Speaker 1>get an honor and it might have your name attached

0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:46.000
<v Speaker 1>to it, but you think about how many people have

0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.720
<v Speaker 1>brought you to that moment, how many hands and hearts

0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.600
<v Speaker 1>and minds have all collaborated to you know, whether it's

0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:58.280
<v Speaker 1>creating something or whatever it is. It's such a collective endeavor.

0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:01.320
<v Speaker 1>So I feel honored personally, but feel honored on behalf

0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.640
<v Speaker 1>of everybody. And yeah, it's incredible.

0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.520
<v Speaker 2>It's amazing. I mean, you've you know what, It's really

0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.280
<v Speaker 2>interesting because obviously I've seen you grow and you know,

0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:14.600
<v Speaker 2>you tour the world, you do retreats. You know, you

0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:16.920
<v Speaker 2>made an album with our dear friend Willow, who came

0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.480
<v Speaker 2>on the podcast with last time. It's been amazing to watch.

0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.440
<v Speaker 2>But I almost this is really exciting for me because

0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:25.280
<v Speaker 2>even when you know someone, when I get to sit

0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.320
<v Speaker 2>in the interview with them, I'm always thinking I'm actually

0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:28.440
<v Speaker 2>going to get to know them in a way that

0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:30.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't before. Yeah, So I want to go back

0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.840
<v Speaker 2>to your childhood. Yeah, and I want to ask you

0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.159
<v Speaker 2>what is a childhood memory that you have that you

0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.800
<v Speaker 2>feel defines who you are today or embodies who you

0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:41.400
<v Speaker 2>are today.

0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Wow. Well, I know with these kind of things you

0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:48.320
<v Speaker 1>should you're supposed to say the very first thing that

0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:52.719
<v Speaker 1>comes into your head, and I'm seeing myself in a

0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:57.240
<v Speaker 1>field near my house. You know, I grew up outside

0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.000
<v Speaker 1>of London, but it's not that far from the city,

0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:02.800
<v Speaker 1>but it's an area that there's a lot of protected

0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.240
<v Speaker 1>farmland and stuff, so there's a lot of fields and

0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:09.640
<v Speaker 1>forests and it really feels quite rural. And these fields

0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:13.680
<v Speaker 1>were close to my house, so I used to love

0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:20.400
<v Speaker 1>walking cycling there and just being in nature. And yeah,

0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.960
<v Speaker 1>they would rotate the crops and the things that were

0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.120
<v Speaker 1>grown in the field, and certain years there would be

0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:32.040
<v Speaker 1>these incredible yellow flowers. Rape seed flowers are sometimes called

0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.080
<v Speaker 1>mustard flowers, and you could just kind of walk amongst

0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:39.200
<v Speaker 1>them and be completely engulfed by these yellow flowers, yellow

0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.279
<v Speaker 1>as far as I could see. So I don't know

0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.560
<v Speaker 1>why that came to my head, but yeah, I guess

0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:49.560
<v Speaker 1>that's something that's defined who I am. Connection to nature

0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:53.160
<v Speaker 1>and just yeah, finding a lot of inspiration in that.

0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Do you still spend a lot of time in nature?

0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:57.719
<v Speaker 1>I try to, Yeah, Yeah, I do.

0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:00.680
<v Speaker 2>In Where is it where you are when you go

0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:02.680
<v Speaker 2>back home, because I know you don't live in London. Yeah.

0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean for the last you know, almost three years,

0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.760
<v Speaker 1>we've been living in the Bay Area, so that's famous

0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.880
<v Speaker 1>around the world for the incredible nature. So now we've

0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:17.520
<v Speaker 1>got the redwood trees and you know, the incredible California coast.

0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.360
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, we tried to be out in that environment

0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.440
<v Speaker 1>as much as possible. But I love to, like, you know,

0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.479
<v Speaker 1>I consider myself a bit of a tree nerd, So

0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:28.960
<v Speaker 1>wherever I go in the world, I'm always trying to

0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:32.159
<v Speaker 1>learn about what trees are around. And yeah, it's just

0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:33.560
<v Speaker 1>something that inspires me a lot.

0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean, I obviously know your parents. Your dad

0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:40.080
<v Speaker 2>actually was our wedding priest for me and yeah, yeah,

0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.000
<v Speaker 2>and so he actually did our wedding ceremony. And I've

0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.600
<v Speaker 2>known your parents for two years now as well, and

0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.280
<v Speaker 2>they've always been just so wonderful and you know, they're

0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.240
<v Speaker 2>so loved by our community. Yeah, and everyone has such

0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.400
<v Speaker 2>an affinity for them. Like what what do you think

0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.200
<v Speaker 2>each of them gave you growing up that you carry

0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.360
<v Speaker 2>with yourself today, Like what quality or a value or

0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:05.640
<v Speaker 2>a belief or even mindset that you think has really

0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.280
<v Speaker 2>stayed with you for all these years.

0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.280
<v Speaker 1>They're both truth seekers. That's something that I think brought

0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.640
<v Speaker 1>them together. I mean they both joined the spiritual community

0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.000
<v Speaker 1>for I think around a decade before they got married.

0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:22.480
<v Speaker 1>So they came from their respective religious traditions that they

0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.200
<v Speaker 1>were brought up with and even countries. You know, my

0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:29.200
<v Speaker 1>mum's from Canada, and both of them went on a

0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:33.600
<v Speaker 1>personal odyssey of a sort, you know, searching for truth

0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:38.600
<v Speaker 1>and meaning purpose in life. So I think that courage

0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:42.240
<v Speaker 1>to depart from the script that's being given, which I

0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:43.960
<v Speaker 1>know a lot of people had in the you know,

0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.760
<v Speaker 1>the sixties seventies, a lot of young people felt emboldened

0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:52.400
<v Speaker 1>to take some unconventional steps. But not only did they

0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.680
<v Speaker 1>sort of try that on, but they've committed to that

0:07:55.960 --> 0:08:01.800
<v Speaker 1>life and to deepening I think with every year. And

0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:07.400
<v Speaker 1>to have parents that are, yeah, they're so committed to

0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:13.760
<v Speaker 1>a life of service and devotion and community. I think

0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.360
<v Speaker 1>both of them in their own way, my mom's the one.

0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean, actually, both of them are very people people.

0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:24.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, they know a lot of people, they remember

0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.840
<v Speaker 1>people's names, but they really care about people as well.

0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.760
<v Speaker 1>I think in our community. If they walk from point

0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.280
<v Speaker 1>A to point B, you know, like a five minute walk,

0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:38.439
<v Speaker 1>they'll be stopping constantly with every person and care about

0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:40.360
<v Speaker 1>what's going on in their life at the moment. So

0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.200
<v Speaker 1>I think that's something that's made a deep impression on me.

0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:51.520
<v Speaker 1>It's hard to follow in their footsteps, you know, in

0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.320
<v Speaker 1>my life, and I guess in the life of all

0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.079
<v Speaker 1>of us who have grown up with the Internet and

0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.160
<v Speaker 1>social media, we have the ability to be connected to

0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:04.040
<v Speaker 1>so many more peopleeople than ever before, and it's difficult

0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.160
<v Speaker 1>to bring that same quality of presence and attention and

0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:11.400
<v Speaker 1>care to all of our interactions. But it's a kind

0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:15.480
<v Speaker 1>of a gold standard that I have in my mind. Yeah,

0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.880
<v Speaker 1>so much. It's hard to measure all the things you

0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:19.960
<v Speaker 1>received from your pigeons.

0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Did you always know that you wanted to create music?

0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:25.560
<v Speaker 2>Did you always know that?

0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:28.720
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know that I wanted to create music in

0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.560
<v Speaker 1>a formal way, but I was always I think I

0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:35.360
<v Speaker 1>was always doing it without consciously realizing that was a thing.

0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.760
<v Speaker 1>Like I just when I was home recently, my mom

0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.120
<v Speaker 1>had some cassette tapes from that I used to record myself,

0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:51.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, like probably seven, eight, nine years old and

0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:54.679
<v Speaker 1>I had one of those keyboards, Cassio keyboard, and I

0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.920
<v Speaker 1>would just put on a drum beat and I would

0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.560
<v Speaker 1>just play. I didn't know how to play board, but

0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:05.360
<v Speaker 1>I had total lack of, you know, inhibition. I just

0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.800
<v Speaker 1>record myself spontaneously and I would sing a bit, tell

0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.160
<v Speaker 1>a story, make up the story as I went along,

0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.280
<v Speaker 1>and they were just meant for my sister to hear,

0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.720
<v Speaker 1>like bedtime stories and stuff like that. But when I

0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.000
<v Speaker 1>listened back, I was like, oh, I guess I was

0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.600
<v Speaker 1>kind of making up songs and things like that. But yeah, it.

0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:24.920
<v Speaker 2>Wasn't you any good now when you listen back, Like, no,

0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:26.000
<v Speaker 2>it was embarrassing.

0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:27.439
<v Speaker 1>I was really embarrassing.

0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:29.000
<v Speaker 2>We need to hear them. I need to hear this.

0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.600
<v Speaker 1>I think I'm gonna I'm going to digitize them just

0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.320
<v Speaker 1>so I can listen back and be like, wow, I've

0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:38.000
<v Speaker 1>come a long way. But I mean, I love to sing,

0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.679
<v Speaker 1>you know. I grew up surrounded by music. My dad

0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:44.520
<v Speaker 1>and mom both love singing. My dad was really well

0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:49.720
<v Speaker 1>known for his voice, and yeah, we we sung as

0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.960
<v Speaker 1>a family together. So I think it was just always

0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:56.319
<v Speaker 1>around me. But I'm you know, quite introverted by nature,

0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.120
<v Speaker 1>so I was never like I want to be a singer.

0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what do you what do you think what's the

0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:02.959
<v Speaker 2>difference for someone who doesn't know, Yeah, what's the difference

0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:08.000
<v Speaker 2>between devotional mantra music yeah, and popular music or music

0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.600
<v Speaker 2>in general? Like, how would you differentiate them?

0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.480
<v Speaker 1>I think there's a few key differences. One is one

0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.280
<v Speaker 1>is the most obvious, which is which is the lyrics

0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:23.840
<v Speaker 1>with with mantra music. Specifically, a mantra is you know,

0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:29.400
<v Speaker 1>a sacred word or phrase, often containing names that refer

0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:34.000
<v Speaker 1>to to the supreme being, and it's repeated, so you know,

0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.600
<v Speaker 1>people's first reaction is like often what oh, why is that?

0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:39.679
<v Speaker 1>Why are you saying the same thing over and over again?

0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:45.559
<v Speaker 1>But the idea is that it's a type of purifying

0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:47.360
<v Speaker 1>Like I always think of a washing machine. You know,

0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:51.280
<v Speaker 1>if you had clothes that were really dirty, you put

0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:53.480
<v Speaker 1>them in the washing machine a few times or something

0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:57.800
<v Speaker 1>like that. So it's it's sound vibration that is intended

0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:03.400
<v Speaker 1>to clarify pure orfy the heart and mind. But I

0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.000
<v Speaker 1>think the other key difference is the intention of the music.

0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:10.560
<v Speaker 1>So the intention, as often prayer, is to connect, like

0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.280
<v Speaker 1>you were saying at the beginning, to that sacred space

0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.480
<v Speaker 1>within whereas I think, you know, music can have all

0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:18.840
<v Speaker 1>kinds of intentions. There can be the intention of the

0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:23.040
<v Speaker 1>artists just to express something, just to connect with the listener,

0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.640
<v Speaker 1>or just to entertain. I don't mean just in a

0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, to minimize what that is. But yeah, the

0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.400
<v Speaker 1>quality of it is different. You can you can encounter that,

0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:33.200
<v Speaker 1>you can feel it.

0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, it's I remember when I first got exposed

0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:42.920
<v Speaker 2>to it, it was addictive and intoxicating in a way

0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.480
<v Speaker 2>that was something I hadn't experienced before. I remember my

0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.280
<v Speaker 2>friends and I would love going out to parties and

0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.120
<v Speaker 2>clubs and things like that. And then when I heard

0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.000
<v Speaker 2>devotional music for the first time, I was I was like, wait,

0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:56.000
<v Speaker 2>why do I like this? You know? But it felt

0:12:56.040 --> 0:13:00.400
<v Speaker 2>familiar and it felt it felt like it, I don't know,

0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.880
<v Speaker 2>connected with a part of me that had been buried

0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.640
<v Speaker 2>for some time or or not, you know, not awakened.

0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.679
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, it has a really special quality. And now

0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:11.960
<v Speaker 2>obviously years later, it's it's one of my favorite things

0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.160
<v Speaker 2>to experience, especially when when you were charing.

0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.679
<v Speaker 1>But did you feel that straight away? Do you remember

0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.160
<v Speaker 1>if you did it take a while to appreciate it

0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:21.520
<v Speaker 1>or immediately.

0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:23.680
<v Speaker 2>Film on one of the first retreats I went on,

0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Like I felt it immediately. It was there was a

0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:28.560
<v Speaker 2>part of it that was just fun because there's so

0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.240
<v Speaker 2>much you know, there's dancing, there's like it's yeah, it's

0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:32.119
<v Speaker 2>such a celebration.

0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:36.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's not always just sitting meditation exactly.

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.800
<v Speaker 2>It's so festive. Yeah, so I think there's a part

0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:43.840
<v Speaker 2>of that. But there were there were certain people and yeah,

0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.240
<v Speaker 2>i'll tell you later who specifically, but like, yeah, there

0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:50.920
<v Speaker 2>were just they were just specific. There were definitely experiences

0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.160
<v Speaker 2>I had very early on that made me very convinced

0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 2>that the practice made sense. And yeah, beautiful and and special.

0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.360
<v Speaker 2>But but yeah, how so if you were so you

0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 2>were always artistics and you're always playing around, Yeah, talk

0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.520
<v Speaker 2>to me about the discovery because so much of our

0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.760
<v Speaker 2>community and our audience is always in the pursuit of

0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.120
<v Speaker 2>their passion. And obviously you're doing something you love, you're

0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.560
<v Speaker 2>doing something that's more niche. You're also doing extremely successfully.

0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:17.680
<v Speaker 2>This is what you do, it's what you offer to

0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:19.920
<v Speaker 2>the world. And I think often we live in a

0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.200
<v Speaker 2>world today where we think, oh, if I'm not doing

0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.760
<v Speaker 2>something that's really mainstream, and if I'm not doing something

0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:28.280
<v Speaker 2>that has millions of followers and has then I can't

0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:29.960
<v Speaker 2>do it, and then it can't be successful if it

0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.040
<v Speaker 2>can't take care of me and my family. And I

0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 2>think there are people like yourself and others I know

0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.720
<v Speaker 2>that have found something you love that serves other people,

0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:41.680
<v Speaker 2>makes them happy, is able to get nominated for a Grammy.

0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.600
<v Speaker 2>Talk to me about the discovery, the early discovery of

0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.240
<v Speaker 2>this passion or maybe it's not, maybe it was always

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.680
<v Speaker 2>a passion, but the discovery of mastery of it. What

0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:56.040
<v Speaker 2>did you study at college? What did you think you actually,

0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:57.920
<v Speaker 2>let's go backwards. What did you think you were going

0:14:57.960 --> 0:14:59.840
<v Speaker 2>to be when you were like eleven years old? Because

0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.680
<v Speaker 2>we all get asked that question? What did you What

0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:03.840
<v Speaker 2>did you write? I'm intrigued?

0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:08.640
<v Speaker 1>What did I remember? So? I went to school at

0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.520
<v Speaker 1>the Temple in the Temple community till I was about

0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 1>ten years old, and then I went to you know,

0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:16.400
<v Speaker 1>a bigger regular.

0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.760
<v Speaker 2>School and what was that transition?

0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.840
<v Speaker 1>Like? That was hard? It was really hard.

0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Talked to me about the different So I didn't go

0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:24.960
<v Speaker 2>to a school like that. I only ever went to

0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:27.480
<v Speaker 2>public schools and grammar schools in England, and I ever

0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 2>went to school. So talk to me about what that means,

0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:32.479
<v Speaker 2>and then the transition from.

0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so the school at the temple. So the place

0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:38.560
<v Speaker 1>where I went to school is called buckdivid unto Manor,

0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:43.800
<v Speaker 1>and you know, it's in many ways an idyllic environment.

0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.880
<v Speaker 1>There's you know, it's kind of eighty acres of beautiful

0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:54.880
<v Speaker 1>country land. There's cows there, there's a beautiful lake. It

0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 1>was a very special environment to grow up in. The

0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.360
<v Speaker 1>school was very small, so we had very individu dual

0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:08.800
<v Speaker 1>attention from the teachers. There was a lot of singing, drama, art,

0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, in addition to the usual things we studied.

0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:16.080
<v Speaker 1>And also we we would lead the chanting in the

0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 1>temple once a week as a whole school.

0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:20.760
<v Speaker 2>So we were doing learning the National curriculum.

0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Yes, we were doing the National curriculum, so we're doing

0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.760
<v Speaker 1>all the regular subjects, but we would also have time

0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.480
<v Speaker 1>where we would study texts like the Bagavat Gita. We

0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.040
<v Speaker 1>would learn you know, versus and things even from four

0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:36.240
<v Speaker 1>or five years old. So it's a very unique way

0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.280
<v Speaker 1>to grow up. Like for me, it was all I knew,

0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.960
<v Speaker 1>but we used to have There would be schools that

0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 1>would visit the temple as part of their religious education.

0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:48.800
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think some people might not know. In

0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.920
<v Speaker 1>the UK religious education it's compulsory in school, so you

0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.280
<v Speaker 1>go out to places of worship and see how, you know,

0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.200
<v Speaker 1>how other people live. So we would have these kids

0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.000
<v Speaker 1>looking through the window, like pressing their nose against the window,

0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.800
<v Speaker 1>looking at us. So we'd be like, we're not we're

0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:07.320
<v Speaker 1>not zoo animals. But they were curious and and we

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:11.640
<v Speaker 1>also didn't know what their school experience was like. But yeah,

0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.080
<v Speaker 1>for me, it was normal, And I didn't realize when

0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.919
<v Speaker 1>I went out to you know, a more kind of

0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:22.920
<v Speaker 1>conventional school that most kids don't learn, you know, songs

0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:28.800
<v Speaker 1>in ancient Sanskrit when they're young and talk about death

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:32.000
<v Speaker 1>and reincarnation from a young age and the soul and

0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.560
<v Speaker 1>things like that. You know, it kind of makes you

0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:38.560
<v Speaker 1>a bit weird to other kids. And I also didn't

0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.600
<v Speaker 1>have that much exposure to tipop culture, you know, So.

0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:45.760
<v Speaker 2>You only realized that when I transitioned. Yeah, yeah, you

0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:47.200
<v Speaker 2>didn't know that until then.

0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:48.639
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know that there was a bit of a

0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.800
<v Speaker 1>rude awakening anyway, tell me about it, Like, yeah, I

0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:56.080
<v Speaker 1>mean I was I was confident in my world, but

0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:01.480
<v Speaker 1>coming out of my world I felt extremely vulnerable. And

0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, sometimes people say, oh, when did you give

0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.359
<v Speaker 1>yourself the name Jenevie. I'm like, no, I was given

0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.600
<v Speaker 1>the same when I was born, you know, and I

0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:13.199
<v Speaker 1>chose to keep that as my name when I went

0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.680
<v Speaker 1>to regular school. So then anyone who has an unusual

0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:20.280
<v Speaker 1>name knows the embarrassment of, like the teacher pausing when

0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.240
<v Speaker 1>they get to your name, and the kids all laugh

0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:26.119
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. Those things kind of things are. Even being

0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.160
<v Speaker 1>vegetarian at that time was quite unusual. I think it's

0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:33.639
<v Speaker 1>much more common now. I just wanted to disappear. I

0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:38.280
<v Speaker 1>didn't want to be comment worthy in any way. And yeah,

0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.880
<v Speaker 1>that was really hard because I was trying to erase.

0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.160
<v Speaker 1>I was trying to erase myself in a way so

0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.920
<v Speaker 1>that no one would have anything to say or make

0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:49.360
<v Speaker 1>fun of.

0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Because you were coming with a different name, a different culture.

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.199
<v Speaker 1>Different name. Yeah, why do you have white skin? But

0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.320
<v Speaker 1>you say you're Hindu? Your name is weird, We just

0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.760
<v Speaker 1>call you something else. Why do you eat that? You

0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.320
<v Speaker 1>know it's They're pretty innocuous questions in one sense, but

0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.000
<v Speaker 1>kids can everyone knows kids can be really mean as well.

0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.719
<v Speaker 1>I didn't even grow up, you know, with that, Like,

0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.040
<v Speaker 1>I didn't grow up around that many kids, so suddenly

0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.919
<v Speaker 1>being in a class of thirty kids, it can be

0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:24.560
<v Speaker 1>quite a sensory overload also if you're sensitive, and it's

0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.360
<v Speaker 1>just I think it's about also having the confidence as

0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.880
<v Speaker 1>a young person to speak about why did you grow

0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:32.480
<v Speaker 1>up in this way? What are the things that you

0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.040
<v Speaker 1>believe in? You know, sometimes you don't kind of have

0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.320
<v Speaker 1>that experience till you're a bit older. And yeah, I

0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.560
<v Speaker 1>just didn't have the words to describe it, so I'd

0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:46.840
<v Speaker 1>rather become silent. So that was really difficult. I felt

0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:51.080
<v Speaker 1>like I'd been kicked out of the nest, you know,

0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.560
<v Speaker 1>the baby bird kicked out of the nest, and I

0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.520
<v Speaker 1>couldn't get back to the nest. Because you change through

0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:01.680
<v Speaker 1>those difficult experiences, you're no longer. I remember I did

0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:05.679
<v Speaker 1>wear a school uniform at the Temple school, but it

0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:07.720
<v Speaker 1>was a different kind of school uniform when I went

0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:12.600
<v Speaker 1>to the other schools. And I remember my parents were saying, oh,

0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:14.880
<v Speaker 1>why don't you come. You know that there's a worship

0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.360
<v Speaker 1>service at the temple every morning, and they were saying,

0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:19.679
<v Speaker 1>why don't we go before school? You can go in

0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:21.879
<v Speaker 1>the temple, And I was like, well, I'll have to

0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.440
<v Speaker 1>wear my uniform and they were like, that's okay. You

0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:27.400
<v Speaker 1>can just come in your uniform and come for you know,

0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:29.879
<v Speaker 1>ten minutes, then we'll go to school. And I was like,

0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:32.560
<v Speaker 1>I can't, And I said why can't you? And I

0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:34.639
<v Speaker 1>was trying to describe it, but I was trying to

0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.280
<v Speaker 1>say that when I put that uniform on, I have

0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:41.640
<v Speaker 1>to become someone else. Can't. It's almost like I felt

0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:43.919
<v Speaker 1>like I would implode or something if I tried to

0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.240
<v Speaker 1>be that person at the temple. It was just like

0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.840
<v Speaker 1>two different masks I had to wear, or characters roles

0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:55.200
<v Speaker 1>that I was playing. So learning how to integrate and

0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:59.840
<v Speaker 1>just be yourself in all environments that was a real journey.

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Going back into the world of work was a culture shop, yeah,

0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:07.480
<v Speaker 2>and it was very, very different. It was almost easier

0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:09.439
<v Speaker 2>to go into the monastery than it was to get out,

0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.000
<v Speaker 2>because getting out felt like, wait a minute, I've been

0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.720
<v Speaker 2>practicing all these things for three years. Yeah, now I

0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.560
<v Speaker 2>have to go to a wine and pizza tasting networking

0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.320
<v Speaker 2>event and I don't drink, and there's certain things that

0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:23.600
<v Speaker 2>don't eat anymore and things like that, and just having

0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:29.840
<v Speaker 2>to adjust and so it's embarrassing. It it's hard. And

0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:31.720
<v Speaker 2>I did that as an adult, so to me, it

0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:33.240
<v Speaker 2>was hard, but it was so much easier. It was

0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.879
<v Speaker 2>somewhat easier. Yeah, but to do that as a teenager, it's, like,

0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, is super hard? Did it? What actually helped

0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:45.920
<v Speaker 2>to integrate? How did you integrate these two seemingly opposite

0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:50.480
<v Speaker 2>lives that seemed to contradict themselves. What did you do

0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:51.879
<v Speaker 2>to integrate? What did that look like?

0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:55.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I think in my school the school school years,

0:21:56.080 --> 0:22:00.720
<v Speaker 1>like you know, till eighteen or so, I just really struggled.

0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:04.080
<v Speaker 1>It kind of felt like a dark tunnel those years,

0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.119
<v Speaker 1>because not not that every day was dark, but it

0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:09.919
<v Speaker 1>just I just didn't feel like I could find that

0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:14.600
<v Speaker 1>confidence and that self assurance to feel yeah, grounded in

0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:19.439
<v Speaker 1>who I am. And I kind of went back and

0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:21.480
<v Speaker 1>forth in and out of you know, I'd go to

0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.160
<v Speaker 1>a regular school for a year, and then I would actually,

0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:29.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean several times I kind of made myself sick

0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:36.280
<v Speaker 1>actually with anxiety. I started developing stomach issues and I

0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:40.760
<v Speaker 1>get headaches every single day. I wouldn't eat at school.

0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:43.600
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't, you know, I'd just save my lunch and

0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:46.639
<v Speaker 1>eat it on the bus on the way home, just

0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:50.359
<v Speaker 1>like all these behaviors that were not I don't know

0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.360
<v Speaker 1>why I was doing those things. So then I'd tell

0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:56.560
<v Speaker 1>my parents, Okay, I want to do like homeschooling for

0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:58.879
<v Speaker 1>a while, and I'd do that. But then you know,

0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:03.560
<v Speaker 1>I could tell myself that I have It's not like

0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:06.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm like super academic, but I need to be stretched

0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:10.159
<v Speaker 1>a bit. Like when you're in that comfort zone of home,

0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:12.439
<v Speaker 1>or you're just with friends or your parents telling you

0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:14.760
<v Speaker 1>to do things you don't, you don't always push yourself.

0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:16.960
<v Speaker 1>So I would kind of yearn for that environment again

0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:19.359
<v Speaker 1>and go back into it and then feel like, oh,

0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:23.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't think I can do this. And I think

0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:27.000
<v Speaker 1>things really change when I started to feel like I

0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:33.080
<v Speaker 1>could take agency for myself and start to take have

0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:37.080
<v Speaker 1>a bit more confidence in choosing the direction of my education,

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:40.480
<v Speaker 1>which I think maybe for many people comes around university

0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:43.159
<v Speaker 1>and you're kind of starting to hone in on you

0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:44.919
<v Speaker 1>know what you want to do. But I was going

0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:47.560
<v Speaker 1>to say, you were saying, you know, when you were eleven,

0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:49.600
<v Speaker 1>what did you want to do with your life? And

0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:52.320
<v Speaker 1>I remember sitting on the school bus and writing. I

0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:55.640
<v Speaker 1>remember like three long lists on the page, and they

0:23:55.640 --> 0:24:00.359
<v Speaker 1>were just all these different artistic things, and I would

0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:02.520
<v Speaker 1>keep going back to the list, and every time I

0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:05.960
<v Speaker 1>would learn something more about each of those creative careers,

0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:09.040
<v Speaker 1>I might cross one off and it was like florist

0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:13.960
<v Speaker 1>and special effects makeup artists. And my dad would sometimes

0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:16.919
<v Speaker 1>take me to like, do you know work shadowing with

0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:19.560
<v Speaker 1>different people, just to just to try and see what

0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:22.760
<v Speaker 1>it was all about. But yeah, I had no idea

0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:24.480
<v Speaker 1>where my journey.

0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:26.199
<v Speaker 2>Would Did you have a narrow down to one or no?

0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:27.199
<v Speaker 1>No, I never know.

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:28.760
<v Speaker 2>That's so funny.

0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:30.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm still working on that.

0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:33.040
<v Speaker 2>Was it hard to go from secondary school or high

0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:36.960
<v Speaker 2>school to college, like to university? Was that hard that transition?

0:24:37.640 --> 0:24:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Or was university not that hard?

0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:42.160
<v Speaker 1>That was easier? That was easier because by that time,

0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:45.159
<v Speaker 1>I think I'd developed some confidence. I did my A

0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:49.359
<v Speaker 1>levels very unconventionally through evening classes, which I was with

0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:53.240
<v Speaker 1>older people that I found easier to be around, because

0:24:53.560 --> 0:24:55.199
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I just think I'd also grown up

0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:58.199
<v Speaker 1>around a lot of older people, and I found I

0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:01.679
<v Speaker 1>did really well doing studying int dependently a lot, and

0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:03.639
<v Speaker 1>so I think that gave me a lot of confidence,

0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:06.840
<v Speaker 1>like choosing how I was going to study. You know,

0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:09.399
<v Speaker 1>then I finished the A levels in a year instead

0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:11.639
<v Speaker 1>of two years. It's like a different way of approaching it.

0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:15.280
<v Speaker 1>And then I started to feel like, okay, you know,

0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:18.320
<v Speaker 1>I just yeah, felt different in myself. I mean, you

0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:23.080
<v Speaker 1>grow up, so I think university college also people are

0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:27.200
<v Speaker 1>a lot more open minded. I found. You start realizing

0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:29.880
<v Speaker 1>that it can be cool to be different rather than

0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:31.199
<v Speaker 1>just something to be made fun of.

0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:44.120
<v Speaker 2>Want to make a real difference this giving season this

0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:48.879
<v Speaker 2>December on Purpose is part of Pods Fight Poverty podcast,

0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:52.520
<v Speaker 2>teaming up to lift three villages in Rwanda out of

0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:56.600
<v Speaker 2>extreme poverty. We're doing it through give Directly, which sends

0:25:56.640 --> 0:25:59.880
<v Speaker 2>cash straight to families so they can choose what they

0:25:59.840 --> 0:26:05.160
<v Speaker 2>need most. Donate at GiveDirectly dot org, forward slash on purpose.

0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:09.280
<v Speaker 2>First time gifts are matched, doubling your impact. Our goal

0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:13.200
<v Speaker 2>is one million dollars by year's end, enough to lift

0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:17.959
<v Speaker 2>seven hundred families out of poverty. Join us at GiveDirectly

0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:31.560
<v Speaker 2>dot org, forward slash on Purpose. Did you have any

0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:36.480
<v Speaker 2>wisdom from the spiritual traditional community that you carried through

0:26:36.480 --> 0:26:38.960
<v Speaker 2>with you that helped you through those tough times or

0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:40.919
<v Speaker 2>do you feel it was You're trying to keep it

0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:43.159
<v Speaker 2>out so much that it didn't really even have a chance.

0:26:43.760 --> 0:26:46.840
<v Speaker 2>Like I really felt that when I went back into

0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:48.600
<v Speaker 2>the world of work, the thing that I held on

0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:52.440
<v Speaker 2>to the most that really changed my life. I genuinely

0:26:52.680 --> 0:26:57.200
<v Speaker 2>mean it was the diverse that says, when you protect

0:26:57.200 --> 0:27:00.640
<v Speaker 2>your purpose, your purpose protects you. And I'm translating dharma's

0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:03.960
<v Speaker 2>purpose in that regard that originally is when you protect

0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:05.600
<v Speaker 2>your dharma, your dharma protects you.

0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:27:06.240 --> 0:27:09.879
<v Speaker 2>And when I heard that verse, that was just profound

0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:13.200
<v Speaker 2>to me, and I started to want to protect what

0:27:13.240 --> 0:27:16.880
<v Speaker 2>I believed my dharma was rather than neglect it and

0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:20.000
<v Speaker 2>reject it to move toward what the world was trying

0:27:20.000 --> 0:27:22.639
<v Speaker 2>to get me to focus on. Yeah, And that acted

0:27:22.680 --> 0:27:26.080
<v Speaker 2>as a real compass for me when I was feeling unsure.

0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:28.119
<v Speaker 2>Was there anything for you I'm just intrigued or was

0:27:28.160 --> 0:27:30.400
<v Speaker 2>it so like you were like this is so alien,

0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:32.159
<v Speaker 2>I have to keep it separate that you were just

0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:33.120
<v Speaker 2>trying to avoid it.

0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:36.480
<v Speaker 1>That's such a great question. I don't think I've thought

0:27:36.480 --> 0:27:39.960
<v Speaker 1>about it in that way before. I don't remember actually

0:27:40.040 --> 0:27:45.880
<v Speaker 1>taking strength from the spiritual tradition like independently. I think

0:27:45.920 --> 0:27:49.040
<v Speaker 1>my parents would try to help me with that, and

0:27:49.080 --> 0:27:51.920
<v Speaker 1>I know for sure, I think on an emotional level,

0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:54.160
<v Speaker 1>my mum was trying to care for me in every

0:27:54.200 --> 0:27:56.560
<v Speaker 1>way possible. I mean, I really gave my parents a

0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:58.479
<v Speaker 1>hard time. I'm also the eldest, so I was the

0:27:58.480 --> 0:28:01.399
<v Speaker 1>first of the children to go out to school, and

0:28:01.440 --> 0:28:01.720
<v Speaker 1>what do.

0:28:01.640 --> 0:28:02.680
<v Speaker 2>You mean to give them a hard time?

0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:05.719
<v Speaker 1>I would cry every day I beg not to go

0:28:05.760 --> 0:28:10.440
<v Speaker 1>to school. I think they were just you know, parents

0:28:10.480 --> 0:28:12.040
<v Speaker 1>are just trying to do the best for you. They

0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:16.720
<v Speaker 1>wanted me to have opportunity, They wanted me to grow intellectually,

0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:20.160
<v Speaker 1>to you know, to do well in studies and everything.

0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:23.400
<v Speaker 1>And I think they were really confused about, like, how

0:28:23.400 --> 0:28:27.240
<v Speaker 1>can we make her be happy and just embrace this

0:28:27.400 --> 0:28:31.320
<v Speaker 1>with confidence and not just be kind of yeah, stressed

0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:35.399
<v Speaker 1>and anxious all the time. So yeah, I feel really

0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:39.040
<v Speaker 1>sorry for what, you know, putting them through that. But

0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:41.160
<v Speaker 1>they were definitely really trying to help. Also from a

0:28:41.160 --> 0:28:45.360
<v Speaker 1>spiritual perspective always, and you know, in simple and digestible ways.

0:28:45.400 --> 0:28:49.040
<v Speaker 1>But I think, yeah, it was it was difficult for

0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:51.200
<v Speaker 1>me to really integrate that at the time.

0:28:51.960 --> 0:28:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Did you so many kids who grew up in religious

0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:58.560
<v Speaker 2>and spiritual communities end up leaving did you ever consider.

0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:01.400
<v Speaker 1>It, not at the time, not at the time, And

0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:03.719
<v Speaker 1>people would always ask me that, and I would It

0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:07.760
<v Speaker 1>was like a very common question, especially from people outside

0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:09.560
<v Speaker 1>of the tradition. They'd always be like, so, did you

0:29:09.600 --> 0:29:11.840
<v Speaker 1>ever want to just rebel and just sleep? And I

0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:14.320
<v Speaker 1>would always very confidently say no, No, I never really

0:29:14.400 --> 0:29:17.160
<v Speaker 1>had that inclination. One of the reasons I think with

0:29:17.280 --> 0:29:21.000
<v Speaker 1>that is that my parents have been always very broad minded,

0:29:21.200 --> 0:29:24.479
<v Speaker 1>very open to talking about anything, and I would have

0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:28.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot of conversations, especially with my dad, about any

0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:33.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, any theological questions, philosophical things, doubts that would

0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:35.360
<v Speaker 1>come to my mind. We would always talk about it.

0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:40.560
<v Speaker 1>And he's very well read, very extensively in many different traditions,

0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:43.760
<v Speaker 1>so he'll always have some great insight to offer. So

0:29:43.800 --> 0:29:46.240
<v Speaker 1>I didn't feel that pull. But I think what I

0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:52.160
<v Speaker 1>didn't know was that, you know, doubt and crisis of

0:29:52.200 --> 0:29:57.120
<v Speaker 1>faith or looking at your tradition from a different lens,

0:29:57.280 --> 0:30:01.600
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't necessarily always happen in those normative teen times.

0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:04.320
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes it can come later on, or sometimes comes multiple

0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:08.520
<v Speaker 1>times through your life. So it's not that I ever

0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:11.600
<v Speaker 1>felt the strong urge to leave, but I definitely went

0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:14.400
<v Speaker 1>through some difficult times at a later phase, I think

0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:18.120
<v Speaker 1>when I really started to Yeah, it's almost like with

0:30:18.240 --> 0:30:23.320
<v Speaker 1>every step further out into the wider world, it kind

0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:27.640
<v Speaker 1>of demands of me to go deeper in what I

0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:32.120
<v Speaker 1>practice and believe because it's being kind of butted up

0:30:32.160 --> 0:30:37.680
<v Speaker 1>against just these intense currents of everything that's going on

0:30:37.720 --> 0:30:38.280
<v Speaker 1>in the world.

0:30:38.480 --> 0:30:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I often think about that because you know, and

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Radi and I talk about like thinking about having children

0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:46.080
<v Speaker 2>or whatever it is, and like how we want to

0:30:46.120 --> 0:30:48.280
<v Speaker 2>raise them where they have good spiritual values, but at

0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:50.960
<v Speaker 2>the same time they have choice. Yeah, and it's always

0:30:51.000 --> 0:30:54.880
<v Speaker 2>hard because you're kind of like I always think. I

0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:58.560
<v Speaker 2>always believe that people who choose what they follow, and

0:30:58.840 --> 0:31:01.080
<v Speaker 2>someone who's grown up in a tradition also gets that

0:31:01.120 --> 0:31:04.520
<v Speaker 2>opportunity as they get older to keep choosing. And I

0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:06.360
<v Speaker 2>also feel like when you choose what you follow, it

0:31:06.560 --> 0:31:08.840
<v Speaker 2>you're more confident about it, it generally has more power

0:31:08.960 --> 0:31:16.040
<v Speaker 2>generally speaking. But when you're raised in something, you have

0:31:16.120 --> 0:31:18.560
<v Speaker 2>to choose as you get older, because you choose whether

0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:20.840
<v Speaker 2>this value is still yours. And the interesting thing about

0:31:20.840 --> 0:31:23.800
<v Speaker 2>that is that also just applies to anyone who grew

0:31:23.840 --> 0:31:27.440
<v Speaker 2>up in the normal system because you grow up with

0:31:27.480 --> 0:31:29.840
<v Speaker 2>certain beliefs your parents have, and at one point you

0:31:29.920 --> 0:31:32.720
<v Speaker 2>pause and you go, wait, do I even believe exactly? So,

0:31:32.800 --> 0:31:36.640
<v Speaker 2>your parents might have believed that you shouldn't work that hard,

0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:39.000
<v Speaker 2>or you should marry a man who works hard, or

0:31:39.280 --> 0:31:42.560
<v Speaker 2>your parents may have had the belief that you should

0:31:42.640 --> 0:31:44.680
<v Speaker 2>always do what you love, or you should never do

0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:46.480
<v Speaker 2>what you love. You should do what is safe and

0:31:46.640 --> 0:31:49.280
<v Speaker 2>is reliable. And I think we all go through our

0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:53.800
<v Speaker 2>twenties and thirties and have reflection points where we say, well, yeah,

0:31:53.840 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 2>my parents believe that, but I didn't. And so it

0:31:55.920 --> 0:31:59.880
<v Speaker 2>applies to all of life, but obviously, very specifically a

0:32:00.040 --> 0:32:03.280
<v Speaker 2>lines to someone who's grown up in a specific tradition,

0:32:03.360 --> 0:32:08.960
<v Speaker 2>in a specific path. When did music go from being passion, exploration,

0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:13.320
<v Speaker 2>curiosity to mastery? Because I think this is such an

0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:15.280
<v Speaker 2>important part. I think I hear a lot of people

0:32:15.280 --> 0:32:19.840
<v Speaker 2>who say, follow your passion, and I think that's okay,

0:32:20.360 --> 0:32:22.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, but if you're going to turn it into

0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:25.800
<v Speaker 2>something you do professionally, the passion at one point has

0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:30.800
<v Speaker 2>to turn in to proficiency and mastery. When did you

0:32:30.840 --> 0:32:34.560
<v Speaker 2>start to actually master your art and craft? What did

0:32:34.640 --> 0:32:35.160
<v Speaker 2>that look like?

0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:39.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't identify with the word master in any way.

0:32:40.560 --> 0:32:43.320
<v Speaker 1>And I don't mean that in a falsely humble way.

0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:47.920
<v Speaker 1>I just yeah, I feel like I'm very much scratching

0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:52.080
<v Speaker 1>the surface. But I think that I think that it

0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:55.520
<v Speaker 1>happened very organically. I started to, you know, when I

0:32:55.520 --> 0:32:58.600
<v Speaker 1>was eighteen, I started to develop more of an independent

0:32:58.680 --> 0:33:02.600
<v Speaker 1>interest in art in my own tradition and really engage

0:33:03.080 --> 0:33:09.000
<v Speaker 1>with the muntor meditation practice kirtan. And also, you know,

0:33:09.040 --> 0:33:11.680
<v Speaker 1>I'd been studying the violin since I was about ten

0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:15.880
<v Speaker 1>years old, and that was always something I did basically

0:33:15.880 --> 0:33:18.760
<v Speaker 1>in my bedroom and in my room with the teacher.

0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:24.200
<v Speaker 1>I never really used my instrument in a public placed.

0:33:24.840 --> 0:33:27.520
<v Speaker 1>I did one time one day in an orchestra and

0:33:27.560 --> 0:33:29.360
<v Speaker 1>I got bullied and then I was like, I'm not

0:33:29.440 --> 0:33:33.600
<v Speaker 1>going back. So it was very like I got to

0:33:33.600 --> 0:33:35.000
<v Speaker 1>a point and I was like, why am I even

0:33:35.080 --> 0:33:39.280
<v Speaker 1>learning this instrument. So it was only when I started

0:33:39.840 --> 0:33:42.719
<v Speaker 1>playing it at the temple in the kirtan and trying

0:33:42.760 --> 0:33:47.400
<v Speaker 1>to improvise, I realized that, you know, aside from just

0:33:47.480 --> 0:33:50.920
<v Speaker 1>participating in this activity musically, there's something I can offer,

0:33:51.320 --> 0:33:53.960
<v Speaker 1>something I can develop and refine. And initially that was

0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:57.840
<v Speaker 1>my connection through the violin. That was my voice, you know,

0:33:57.920 --> 0:34:02.640
<v Speaker 1>I was too shy to sing. But I think everything

0:34:02.840 --> 0:34:06.480
<v Speaker 1>actually stemmed from there because through the violin, I ended

0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:11.000
<v Speaker 1>up joining a montra music group that was forming at

0:34:11.000 --> 0:34:15.920
<v Speaker 1>the time, right as I was finishing my undergraduate degree

0:34:16.080 --> 0:34:18.200
<v Speaker 1>and I did not know what was I was going

0:34:18.280 --> 0:34:22.160
<v Speaker 1>to do next. You know, I studied English and creative

0:34:22.200 --> 0:34:25.759
<v Speaker 1>writing linguistics. It was like very interesting to me, but

0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:28.799
<v Speaker 1>I had no idea what to do with it. And

0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:32.920
<v Speaker 1>this opportunity came like a month before my graduation to

0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:38.000
<v Speaker 1>tour all over America and all around the world. It

0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:39.600
<v Speaker 1>ended up being so I was just it was a

0:34:39.600 --> 0:34:41.840
<v Speaker 1>no brainer. I was like, yeah, I want to do that,

0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:46.839
<v Speaker 1>and I thought that it would just be I still

0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:49.920
<v Speaker 1>felt like, well, I'll have to get a regular job.

0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:53.440
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know what that was. I actually then I

0:34:53.480 --> 0:34:55.280
<v Speaker 1>did get a job as a magazine editor.

0:34:55.360 --> 0:34:55.719
<v Speaker 2>But I.

0:34:57.360 --> 0:34:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Got the job and then write when I was meant

0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:02.000
<v Speaker 1>to go back and take it, I was doing this

0:35:02.120 --> 0:35:04.600
<v Speaker 1>touring beforehand, and then I just wrote to them. I said,

0:35:04.640 --> 0:35:07.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, I can't. I think I need to keep

0:35:07.120 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 1>doing what I'm doing. It was, yeah, speaking to my soul.

0:35:11.280 --> 0:35:15.400
<v Speaker 1>I guess so it's been very organic. I think I

0:35:15.440 --> 0:35:17.399
<v Speaker 1>have struggled with a lot of doubt along the way,

0:35:17.480 --> 0:35:22.839
<v Speaker 1>because anyone who does anything creative or artistic knows there's

0:35:22.840 --> 0:35:27.360
<v Speaker 1>no assurance of any kind of ability to maintain yourself

0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:31.960
<v Speaker 1>have a livelihood with that activity. And so it's a

0:35:32.000 --> 0:35:38.839
<v Speaker 1>real act of I think faith and courage to sort

0:35:38.840 --> 0:35:41.239
<v Speaker 1>of just keep going with it a year upon year.

0:35:41.880 --> 0:35:46.000
<v Speaker 1>And so I was many times constantly questioning myself, Okay,

0:35:46.040 --> 0:35:47.600
<v Speaker 1>so is now the point when I should get a

0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:53.080
<v Speaker 1>quote unquote regular job or something that's more predictable and stable.

0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:59.360
<v Speaker 2>Do you think you experience divinity when you sing and

0:35:59.400 --> 0:36:02.080
<v Speaker 2>make music in a way that you don't access through

0:36:02.080 --> 0:36:03.000
<v Speaker 2>any other practice.

0:36:04.360 --> 0:36:12.399
<v Speaker 1>I would say, yes, yeah, I do. I think it's

0:36:12.440 --> 0:36:19.120
<v Speaker 1>an incredibly deep idea that you can access divinity through sound,

0:36:20.040 --> 0:36:25.760
<v Speaker 1>sound being so subtle, not requiring any instrument, any tool,

0:36:26.120 --> 0:36:31.879
<v Speaker 1>just your own voice, and it just requires presence and

0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:37.640
<v Speaker 1>it's very esoteric, but I feel like anyone can experience

0:36:37.680 --> 0:36:41.759
<v Speaker 1>it also, like we have ears to hear, you know,

0:36:41.880 --> 0:36:47.200
<v Speaker 1>a voice to use. And yeah, I remember first starting

0:36:47.200 --> 0:36:49.879
<v Speaker 1>to become aware of that around I mean, I had

0:36:50.000 --> 0:36:52.560
<v Speaker 1>many incredible moments when I was a child, you know,

0:36:52.640 --> 0:36:55.720
<v Speaker 1>sometimes people ask me what some of my earliest memories

0:36:55.760 --> 0:37:00.680
<v Speaker 1>of kirtane, And there's so many incredible times, Like there

0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:03.759
<v Speaker 1>was a festival that would happen every year. We would

0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:08.480
<v Speaker 1>walk in procession through London to this huge park, Battersea Park,

0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:12.160
<v Speaker 1>and there would be a festival, many tents there till

0:37:12.280 --> 0:37:14.800
<v Speaker 1>late at night and the kirtan would be going all

0:37:14.840 --> 0:37:20.360
<v Speaker 1>afternoon into the evening. And I just remember feeling so joyful,

0:37:20.480 --> 0:37:26.759
<v Speaker 1>so exhausted, but like so filled by that experience. I

0:37:26.760 --> 0:37:29.920
<v Speaker 1>think I started to really notice that, Wow, there's something

0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:34.120
<v Speaker 1>really special here around sixteen seventeen eighteen and feel like

0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:37.759
<v Speaker 1>I want to come back to this. You know how

0:37:37.800 --> 0:37:41.319
<v Speaker 1>you feel when you I guess there's so many things

0:37:41.320 --> 0:37:44.400
<v Speaker 1>you could liken that too, but you just, yeah, you

0:37:44.440 --> 0:37:45.319
<v Speaker 1>want to keep doing it.

0:37:45.560 --> 0:37:48.319
<v Speaker 2>What have you found when people are because I think

0:37:48.320 --> 0:37:50.680
<v Speaker 2>singing out loud can feel so nervous for people because

0:37:50.719 --> 0:37:53.000
<v Speaker 2>it's this call and response where you're chanting and people

0:37:53.000 --> 0:37:56.920
<v Speaker 2>are responding back, especially when you're live. Yeah, what have

0:37:57.000 --> 0:37:59.040
<v Speaker 2>you seen like the transformation people have had where they

0:37:59.080 --> 0:38:01.560
<v Speaker 2>start off because you do retreats, et cetera, where they

0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:04.920
<v Speaker 2>start really nervous and anxious and then what have you

0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:07.640
<v Speaker 2>seen that turn into Even for people who think like

0:38:07.880 --> 0:38:10.000
<v Speaker 2>I can't sing to say my life, or you don't

0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:11.960
<v Speaker 2>like the sound of your voice or whatever it may

0:38:12.000 --> 0:38:14.800
<v Speaker 2>be my singing voice. I'm very confident speaking.

0:38:14.880 --> 0:38:17.400
<v Speaker 1>But I've heard you saying I think, yeah, it's terrible.

0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:20.399
<v Speaker 1>Now I think you can say now I know you're

0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:21.320
<v Speaker 1>lying for sure.

0:38:21.800 --> 0:38:23.920
<v Speaker 2>Now I have proved that last night right now we

0:38:23.920 --> 0:38:27.080
<v Speaker 2>were talking about that thing. You were lying. But what yeah,

0:38:27.120 --> 0:38:28.080
<v Speaker 2>what is that for you?

0:38:28.160 --> 0:38:28.279
<v Speaker 1>Like?

0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:31.520
<v Speaker 2>What have you seen? I'm intrigued for people, anyone who's

0:38:31.520 --> 0:38:34.040
<v Speaker 2>listening right now. Anyone who's listening right now, I hope

0:38:34.080 --> 0:38:37.640
<v Speaker 2>you're going to go to Spotify or you know, Apple

0:38:37.680 --> 0:38:41.240
<v Speaker 2>and type in Johannavie Harrison and you know, I'm looking.

0:38:41.239 --> 0:38:43.560
<v Speaker 2>You've got like one hundred and thirty four thousand monthly

0:38:43.600 --> 0:38:47.160
<v Speaker 2>listeners right now. And if someone was listening to this

0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:49.600
<v Speaker 2>music or they were going to come and see you live,

0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:52.799
<v Speaker 2>and you'd say, hey, everyone sing along with me, which

0:38:52.840 --> 0:38:56.279
<v Speaker 2>is very common at these events if someone's nervous in

0:38:56.320 --> 0:38:58.360
<v Speaker 2>the beginning or doesn't quite get it. How have you

0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:01.120
<v Speaker 2>seen people transform over time through retreats and events.

0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:04.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it's really normal to feel nervous. I

0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:08.320
<v Speaker 1>think many people, or even I would say most people

0:39:08.400 --> 0:39:12.600
<v Speaker 1>have some level of insecurity about singing out loud. I

0:39:12.640 --> 0:39:15.040
<v Speaker 1>think the beautiful thing about it is that you're singing

0:39:15.040 --> 0:39:19.960
<v Speaker 1>with other people, so you're not even there's no demand

0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:22.120
<v Speaker 1>that you even sing really loud. You know, you can

0:39:22.160 --> 0:39:26.360
<v Speaker 1>sing very quietly. But feeling that togetherness, I mean we

0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:28.719
<v Speaker 1>experience we all can experience that if we go to

0:39:28.760 --> 0:39:32.160
<v Speaker 1>a concert or I don't know, a football match, everyone's

0:39:32.160 --> 0:39:36.000
<v Speaker 1>singing the same thing together. It's empowering and it's connecting

0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:39.800
<v Speaker 1>in a way that few things are of that nature.

0:39:40.120 --> 0:39:43.040
<v Speaker 1>So I would even say that, you know, some people,

0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:45.600
<v Speaker 1>some people that lead this type of music are more

0:39:47.120 --> 0:39:50.080
<v Speaker 1>strident or commanding and like, come on, everyone sing, you know.

0:39:50.560 --> 0:39:55.320
<v Speaker 1>I think I, being a more shy nature, I really

0:39:55.480 --> 0:39:58.400
<v Speaker 1>empathize and understand how that feels to feel so nervous.

0:39:58.960 --> 0:40:02.600
<v Speaker 1>So I don't I don't don't expect people to, you know,

0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:05.520
<v Speaker 1>push themselves in a way that feels just too uncomfortable.

0:40:05.760 --> 0:40:08.560
<v Speaker 1>I always tell people if you want to sing internally,

0:40:09.440 --> 0:40:11.560
<v Speaker 1>because you have we have an internal voice as well,

0:40:11.600 --> 0:40:13.759
<v Speaker 1>you can sing back in your heart. I do that

0:40:13.800 --> 0:40:16.720
<v Speaker 1>on the plane if I'm stressed I listen to something

0:40:16.760 --> 0:40:19.520
<v Speaker 1>and then I sing back with my inner voice. But

0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:27.600
<v Speaker 1>it's incredibly freeing, and I've seen people relax and become

0:40:27.719 --> 0:40:31.640
<v Speaker 1>free in a way that they didn't expect by letting

0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:35.520
<v Speaker 1>go and letting their voice out. You know, everything that

0:40:35.560 --> 0:40:39.839
<v Speaker 1>feels uncomfortable initially usually feels you feel a great sense

0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:41.560
<v Speaker 1>of achievement afterwards as well.

0:40:41.840 --> 0:40:44.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what do you think? What do you think people

0:40:44.080 --> 0:40:46.440
<v Speaker 2>turn to your music for? Like when you're finding people

0:40:46.480 --> 0:40:49.080
<v Speaker 2>discovering your music? Yeah, who are not from the tradition,

0:40:49.200 --> 0:40:52.399
<v Speaker 2>who don't aren't familiar with it? What are they? I mean,

0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:54.560
<v Speaker 2>like you were? You were Rady's I think number one

0:40:54.640 --> 0:41:02.560
<v Speaker 2>artist on Spotify rat this year. What do you think people? Yeah?

0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:04.720
<v Speaker 2>What are people seeking? What have you found?

0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:07.960
<v Speaker 1>I can say what people tell me, which is I

0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:12.440
<v Speaker 1>think people say that they find a sense of peace,

0:41:13.400 --> 0:41:16.480
<v Speaker 1>a sense of shelter and comfort. A lot of people

0:41:16.520 --> 0:41:18.319
<v Speaker 1>tell me that they listen to their music to my

0:41:18.480 --> 0:41:25.200
<v Speaker 1>music in difficult times. You know, so many people say, yeah,

0:41:25.239 --> 0:41:29.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, I was studying for exams, my parent was unwell,

0:41:30.000 --> 0:41:33.799
<v Speaker 1>someone in my family was dying, or you know, I

0:41:33.960 --> 0:41:36.440
<v Speaker 1>was getting ready to get married, and then I played

0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:38.840
<v Speaker 1>your music on my wedding day as I was coming

0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:43.600
<v Speaker 1>in these kind of transitional and very meaningful moments in life.

0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:47.080
<v Speaker 1>A lot of people talk about playing my music first

0:41:47.120 --> 0:41:49.080
<v Speaker 1>thing in the morning or last thing at night when

0:41:49.120 --> 0:41:53.720
<v Speaker 1>they want to connect to a place of deep prayer

0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:59.400
<v Speaker 1>or a sacred space. Yeah. I think that's what people find.

0:41:59.480 --> 0:42:03.600
<v Speaker 1>And I'm always blown away by people's stories, you know,

0:42:03.680 --> 0:42:09.400
<v Speaker 1>because ultimately you as a person or I speak for myself, like,

0:42:10.000 --> 0:42:14.880
<v Speaker 1>we're so aware of our humanness and our flaws and

0:42:15.000 --> 0:42:17.120
<v Speaker 1>everything that we bring to you know, we bring all

0:42:17.160 --> 0:42:20.520
<v Speaker 1>of it to every endeavor. So it's really incredible for

0:42:20.600 --> 0:42:24.400
<v Speaker 1>me that I can do something that allows someone to

0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:27.880
<v Speaker 1>enter into that space where they feel so deeply connected,

0:42:28.120 --> 0:42:31.800
<v Speaker 1>because I know that that's not it. It's me because

0:42:31.800 --> 0:42:33.799
<v Speaker 1>I'm allowing myself to be used in that way, but

0:42:33.880 --> 0:42:36.040
<v Speaker 1>I know that there's something a lot deeper that's happening.

0:42:36.480 --> 0:42:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Every time, I mean every time I'm in one

0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:40.560
<v Speaker 2>of your sessions, I'm like just to the back, to

0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:41.480
<v Speaker 2>the whole background too.

0:42:42.920 --> 0:42:43.480
<v Speaker 1>I've seen that.

0:42:45.200 --> 0:42:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Like it. It's strange though, because you can't really explain it. Yeah,

0:42:49.200 --> 0:42:52.000
<v Speaker 2>it's so hard to put into words where you just

0:42:52.000 --> 0:42:54.120
<v Speaker 2>got to be in one I've had like my team

0:42:54.120 --> 0:42:56.040
<v Speaker 2>has come to sessions obviously, we have friends here, have

0:42:56.080 --> 0:42:59.839
<v Speaker 2>come to events home, and it's amazing how you don't

0:42:59.880 --> 0:43:02.520
<v Speaker 2>need to know the language. You don't really you don't

0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:04.759
<v Speaker 2>even need to know to some degree. I know, you

0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:06.879
<v Speaker 2>always explain what it means, but even if someone doesn't

0:43:06.920 --> 0:43:10.480
<v Speaker 2>know what it means, it's it's It's so interesting how

0:43:10.719 --> 0:43:13.319
<v Speaker 2>and sound has that potential. I think, you know, if

0:43:13.360 --> 0:43:15.920
<v Speaker 2>you look at even music right now, like Latin music,

0:43:16.080 --> 0:43:18.960
<v Speaker 2>is you know so global. Yeah, you know you've got

0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:21.520
<v Speaker 2>bad Bunnies, Puerto Rican and that style of music has

0:43:21.560 --> 0:43:24.280
<v Speaker 2>taken over and you've got and that's what's so beautiful

0:43:24.320 --> 0:43:27.279
<v Speaker 2>about music in generalist, it's so beyond language and so

0:43:27.440 --> 0:43:28.719
<v Speaker 2>beyond where you grew up.

0:43:29.200 --> 0:43:32.600
<v Speaker 1>It transmits transmit I really feel.

0:43:32.320 --> 0:43:34.920
<v Speaker 2>It, Yeah, which is which is so special. And I

0:43:34.960 --> 0:43:38.240
<v Speaker 2>definitely feel that in you know, in in Montra music

0:43:38.520 --> 0:43:39.919
<v Speaker 2>in an unexpected way.

0:43:40.000 --> 0:43:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, although I would say, you know, I've started to

0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:46.239
<v Speaker 1>also experiment with or not experiment, but part of my

0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:51.239
<v Speaker 1>creative journey in the last few years has been to

0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:56.560
<v Speaker 1>to write original songs also and incorporate that into especially

0:43:56.600 --> 0:44:01.480
<v Speaker 1>when I do concerts. You know, I kind of distinguish

0:44:01.840 --> 0:44:07.200
<v Speaker 1>certain settings for certain offerings. I think, you know, there's

0:44:07.400 --> 0:44:12.080
<v Speaker 1>a lot of times I'll lead meditation sessions with Kirtan

0:44:12.160 --> 0:44:15.960
<v Speaker 1>in a very traditional sense, and it has a very

0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:18.280
<v Speaker 1>it can have a very intimate feeling, especially if people

0:44:18.800 --> 0:44:21.320
<v Speaker 1>are they know what to do, you know they're ready.

0:44:21.400 --> 0:44:25.680
<v Speaker 1>But in a more maybe I don't know if theatrical

0:44:25.719 --> 0:44:27.640
<v Speaker 1>setting is the right word to use, But in an

0:44:27.719 --> 0:44:29.960
<v Speaker 1>auditorium where there may be people who have never done

0:44:30.000 --> 0:44:35.560
<v Speaker 1>this before, I've started to weave together these traditional chants

0:44:35.600 --> 0:44:40.880
<v Speaker 1>with sometimes original songs in English, because it's not only

0:44:40.960 --> 0:44:43.760
<v Speaker 1>just a tool for making a connection point for someone

0:44:43.800 --> 0:44:47.760
<v Speaker 1>else with a language of prayer, but for me also,

0:44:47.880 --> 0:44:51.840
<v Speaker 1>I've found it to be something that brings a certain

0:44:52.200 --> 0:44:57.880
<v Speaker 1>vulnerability and personalism to which I think in some ways,

0:44:57.920 --> 0:45:00.200
<v Speaker 1>growing up, I would have thought that that was taboo,

0:45:00.200 --> 0:45:04.040
<v Speaker 1>because the practice of Caretena is very much not about

0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:08.319
<v Speaker 1>you putting yourself there. It's really being a vessel, being

0:45:08.360 --> 0:45:12.200
<v Speaker 1>a channel to just give this pure sound. But I

0:45:12.239 --> 0:45:15.839
<v Speaker 1>think that there's some value as well in sharing, yeah,

0:45:15.840 --> 0:45:20.960
<v Speaker 1>a personal a personal prayer, a personal reflection on just

0:45:21.040 --> 0:45:23.960
<v Speaker 1>being someone trying to go through life and be connected

0:45:24.040 --> 0:45:27.720
<v Speaker 1>to truth and faith and beauty.

0:45:28.080 --> 0:45:30.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if someone was to start with one of your albums, Yeah,

0:45:30.680 --> 0:45:32.319
<v Speaker 2>where would you like them to start? Like, if someone

0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:33.799
<v Speaker 2>was like, I want to check this out, I don't

0:45:33.840 --> 0:45:36.000
<v Speaker 2>really know much about it, what would you recommend?

0:45:36.719 --> 0:45:43.160
<v Speaker 1>I think if someone's curious in the just mostly the

0:45:43.200 --> 0:45:46.759
<v Speaker 1>traditional songs and mantras. My first album, Like a River

0:45:46.840 --> 0:45:50.279
<v Speaker 1>to the Sea, is a great one. But I think

0:45:50.280 --> 0:45:52.319
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people connect with the album that I

0:45:52.360 --> 0:45:55.680
<v Speaker 1>did with Willow called Rise, and then my recent album

0:45:55.719 --> 0:45:58.120
<v Speaker 1>Into the Forest. I think Rise and Into the Forest

0:45:58.160 --> 0:46:01.839
<v Speaker 1>are similar in that they incorporate both mantras and and

0:46:02.200 --> 0:46:03.400
<v Speaker 1>some original lyrics.

0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:06.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, that's great if anyone who's starting out there

0:46:07.480 --> 0:46:10.560
<v Speaker 2>journey of wanting to you know, move into devotional music

0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:13.319
<v Speaker 2>and I've never had the experience of it.

0:46:13.360 --> 0:46:18.040
<v Speaker 1>Or they should check out Rady's playlist. So many people

0:46:18.080 --> 0:46:20.600
<v Speaker 1>tell me, oh, I found your music through Raddy. She's

0:46:20.600 --> 0:46:24.280
<v Speaker 1>got a great collection there of also many other wonderful artists.

0:46:24.960 --> 0:46:29.080
<v Speaker 2>I love that love. That's what's a misconception you think

0:46:29.120 --> 0:46:31.040
<v Speaker 2>people have about spiritual people.

0:46:32.600 --> 0:46:36.480
<v Speaker 1>I think people tend to project a lot onto spiritual

0:46:36.520 --> 0:46:40.319
<v Speaker 1>people that they're like, you're so divine and you must

0:46:40.360 --> 0:46:43.880
<v Speaker 1>float around your house all day, you know, spouting like

0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:45.560
<v Speaker 1>wisdom quotes, and.

0:46:46.719 --> 0:46:47.680
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly what I do.

0:46:49.080 --> 0:46:50.680
<v Speaker 1>I've seen you in your robes.

0:46:52.400 --> 0:46:52.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:46:52.840 --> 0:46:57.960
<v Speaker 1>I think a misconception is that spiritual people don't have doubts,

0:46:58.400 --> 0:47:04.040
<v Speaker 1>don't have material desires, don't make mistakes, or all of

0:47:04.080 --> 0:47:09.279
<v Speaker 1>those things obviously are true, or that spiritual people have

0:47:09.360 --> 0:47:13.719
<v Speaker 1>all the answers. I think to try to pursue a

0:47:13.760 --> 0:47:18.960
<v Speaker 1>life connected to a spiritual core is courageous because there

0:47:19.000 --> 0:47:22.080
<v Speaker 1>is a level of faith that's required where there's not

0:47:22.280 --> 0:47:26.080
<v Speaker 1>always a hard answer, there's very good answers, but you

0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:30.440
<v Speaker 1>also still have to be very open hearted and constantly

0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:35.480
<v Speaker 1>open to learning and surrender, which is very very difficult.

0:47:36.040 --> 0:47:39.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, such a great answer, know what I expected, But yes,

0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:42.960
<v Speaker 2>such a great answer. It's a Yeah, everyone's human, and

0:47:43.000 --> 0:47:46.080
<v Speaker 2>everyone's trying, and everyone's failing, and everyone's making mistakes. And

0:47:46.680 --> 0:47:49.560
<v Speaker 2>I think the problem is when you think that a

0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:54.680
<v Speaker 2>spiritual person is perfect, then you don't feel spiritual internally, Yeah,

0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:57.840
<v Speaker 2>because you don't feel like you've reached what other people

0:47:57.840 --> 0:48:00.440
<v Speaker 2>have reached or what you should have reached, and that

0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:03.399
<v Speaker 2>can actually deter you from the path. Yeah, because you think, oh, well,

0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:06.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm not like that. And they have it all together,

0:48:06.200 --> 0:48:09.160
<v Speaker 2>and therefore I must not be spiritual, not realizing that

0:48:09.200 --> 0:48:14.560
<v Speaker 2>we all already are inherently and perfection may be the

0:48:14.800 --> 0:48:17.799
<v Speaker 2>goal and the aspiration, but the journey towards it is

0:48:18.360 --> 0:48:21.759
<v Speaker 2>far more incremental and step by step than it is

0:48:21.800 --> 0:48:25.080
<v Speaker 2>this enlightened day. I think, you know, I think that's

0:48:25.080 --> 0:48:27.239
<v Speaker 2>a misconception. I always think is people always like, what

0:48:27.400 --> 0:48:28.640
<v Speaker 2>was the day you've realized?

0:48:28.719 --> 0:48:28.839
<v Speaker 3>Right?

0:48:29.120 --> 0:48:32.600
<v Speaker 2>I have not had that came down from the car,

0:48:32.640 --> 0:48:35.040
<v Speaker 2>And it's again it's how media's portrayed it where it

0:48:35.080 --> 0:48:38.520
<v Speaker 2>feels like you have this day of enlightenment. I've had

0:48:38.560 --> 0:48:43.360
<v Speaker 2>really special meditations, I've had really special experiences, but it's

0:48:44.120 --> 0:48:47.279
<v Speaker 2>three steps forward, one step back, two steps forwards, three

0:48:47.280 --> 0:48:48.080
<v Speaker 2>steps forward, you.

0:48:48.040 --> 0:48:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Know, ten steps back. You're like, what am I doing wrong?

0:48:51.960 --> 0:48:52.960
<v Speaker 2>And that's what's meant to be?

0:48:53.320 --> 0:48:58.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I do find that, you know, I encountered

0:48:58.040 --> 0:49:01.840
<v Speaker 1>that the more that I became publicly known for doing

0:49:03.400 --> 0:49:08.320
<v Speaker 1>muntter meditation and devotion sacred music, I would start to

0:49:08.400 --> 0:49:10.440
<v Speaker 1>encounter more and more people coming to me like with

0:49:11.120 --> 0:49:15.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, shining eyes. I could feel and sometimes it's

0:49:15.560 --> 0:49:19.520
<v Speaker 1>very obvious by the words they say that they they

0:49:19.560 --> 0:49:23.400
<v Speaker 1>are for want of a better phrase, putting me on

0:49:23.440 --> 0:49:26.360
<v Speaker 1>a pedestal, or thinking that there's some kind of perfection,

0:49:26.680 --> 0:49:29.759
<v Speaker 1>you know, happening, which I know is not true. And

0:49:29.840 --> 0:49:33.040
<v Speaker 1>I think part of that is, you know, anyone that's

0:49:33.120 --> 0:49:36.600
<v Speaker 1>kind of facilitating us to go into a spiritual practice

0:49:36.719 --> 0:49:41.080
<v Speaker 1>or experience, we may you know, associate that person with

0:49:41.160 --> 0:49:44.399
<v Speaker 1>the feeling and the and the the real, the very

0:49:44.440 --> 0:49:48.239
<v Speaker 1>real experience that we get. But I think, yeah, I

0:49:48.520 --> 0:49:52.600
<v Speaker 1>think as you get older, especially just accepting both your

0:49:52.640 --> 0:49:57.319
<v Speaker 1>own being patient with your own flaws. I've definitely had

0:49:57.360 --> 0:50:03.120
<v Speaker 1>to learn to be very patient with myself because yeah,

0:50:03.400 --> 0:50:06.759
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we're blessed to have as well, you know,

0:50:06.800 --> 0:50:09.200
<v Speaker 1>we're blessed to know so many people who truly are

0:50:09.239 --> 0:50:12.920
<v Speaker 1>exemplary in their life and their actions. And yeah, I

0:50:12.960 --> 0:50:16.440
<v Speaker 1>mean I identify without looking at someone thinking, God, you know,

0:50:16.480 --> 0:50:18.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm never going to be I'm never going to be spiritual.

0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:24.120
<v Speaker 2>What's something that you used to believe to be true

0:50:24.360 --> 0:50:26.879
<v Speaker 2>spiritually and now you don't agree with it?

0:50:29.280 --> 0:50:33.360
<v Speaker 1>I think I think growing up in a particular spiritual

0:50:33.360 --> 0:50:43.600
<v Speaker 1>tradition you can have, you're surrounded by constant affirmation and

0:50:44.080 --> 0:50:48.759
<v Speaker 1>validation of that tradition. You know, if you're immersed in

0:50:48.800 --> 0:50:52.799
<v Speaker 1>a community, You're sur surrounded by people who believe in

0:50:52.840 --> 0:50:58.680
<v Speaker 1>that path, in those practices, And I think the more

0:50:58.719 --> 0:51:02.920
<v Speaker 1>that I've grown and encountered people from all different walks

0:51:02.960 --> 0:51:06.640
<v Speaker 1>of life, who've had all different kinds of experiences, I

0:51:06.640 --> 0:51:09.000
<v Speaker 1>don't know if it's so much something that I don't

0:51:09.000 --> 0:51:13.960
<v Speaker 1>believe anymore, but it challenges a lot of things that

0:51:14.000 --> 0:51:17.800
<v Speaker 1>I've heard, things that I've just accepted because everyone around

0:51:17.800 --> 0:51:21.279
<v Speaker 1>me was saying yes, yes, And I really value that.

0:51:21.920 --> 0:51:26.760
<v Speaker 1>I feel that's necessary. But it's not always easy because

0:51:27.800 --> 0:51:31.400
<v Speaker 1>sometimes there's not an easy resolution or answer.

0:51:32.800 --> 0:51:32.840
<v Speaker 3>To.

0:51:33.680 --> 0:51:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, conflicting worldviews and opinions about things. So that's something

0:51:41.000 --> 0:51:44.399
<v Speaker 1>that I've encountered a lot on my journey. Sometimes it's

0:51:44.440 --> 0:51:48.080
<v Speaker 1>even people that are within the same broad category of

0:51:48.560 --> 0:51:51.920
<v Speaker 1>a religion or a faith tradition, but you know, different

0:51:51.960 --> 0:52:00.000
<v Speaker 1>strands of specific beliefs. There's so much nuance, and yeah,

0:52:00.040 --> 0:52:03.040
<v Speaker 1>I think I've found it harder to be like this

0:52:03.120 --> 0:52:03.760
<v Speaker 1>is the answer.

0:52:04.000 --> 0:52:09.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's I agree. I think it's

0:52:09.520 --> 0:52:13.120
<v Speaker 2>a healthy thing. And it's also the brain just doesn't

0:52:13.200 --> 0:52:15.920
<v Speaker 2>like it. For simplicity's sake. It's just easier for the

0:52:15.960 --> 0:52:18.440
<v Speaker 2>brain to have it set of beliefs and move with

0:52:18.480 --> 0:52:20.719
<v Speaker 2>them even if they're not health And so when you

0:52:20.760 --> 0:52:26.959
<v Speaker 2>allow yourself to be in a paradox, yeah, it's challenging. Yeah,

0:52:27.000 --> 0:52:28.759
<v Speaker 2>and that's why we avoid it. That's why we prefer

0:52:28.880 --> 0:52:31.360
<v Speaker 2>left or right, or black or white, or binary thinking.

0:52:31.400 --> 0:52:34.680
<v Speaker 2>And so I find that in my own self. I

0:52:34.719 --> 0:52:37.399
<v Speaker 2>try and live it like that. I try and live

0:52:37.440 --> 0:52:41.280
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of the Venn diagram always like trying

0:52:41.320 --> 0:52:45.080
<v Speaker 2>not to be binary. But it's hard because you're it's

0:52:45.120 --> 0:52:49.359
<v Speaker 2>so much easier to pick a place to live and say, yeah,

0:52:49.360 --> 0:52:51.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go all in and believe this is

0:52:51.080 --> 0:52:54.560
<v Speaker 2>the truth, or I'm going to refute it. And it's like, well, no,

0:52:54.600 --> 0:52:56.759
<v Speaker 2>there's things that make sense and there's things that don't

0:52:56.760 --> 0:52:59.040
<v Speaker 2>make sense. I was just saying to someone this morning.

0:52:59.080 --> 0:53:01.720
<v Speaker 2>I was like, it's how we've always talked about how

0:53:02.080 --> 0:53:04.759
<v Speaker 2>whether the glass is half full or half empty, and

0:53:04.800 --> 0:53:07.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, it's both, yeah, Like it's always both. Like

0:53:08.280 --> 0:53:11.160
<v Speaker 2>that's just a stupid question because did you see it?

0:53:11.280 --> 0:53:13.040
<v Speaker 1>Could you see it too? Like could one I have

0:53:13.320 --> 0:53:14.040
<v Speaker 1>one lens and.

0:53:14.000 --> 0:53:15.280
<v Speaker 2>The other have the other earlier?

0:53:15.320 --> 0:53:16.480
<v Speaker 1>And it's like both things.

0:53:16.560 --> 0:53:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and both things are true if a glass is

0:53:19.000 --> 0:53:22.279
<v Speaker 2>half full, it is therefore half empty. Yeah, And so

0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:25.040
<v Speaker 2>therefore the right answer is I see both. And if

0:53:25.040 --> 0:53:27.279
<v Speaker 2>you see both, it means I can fill the glass up. Yeah,

0:53:27.320 --> 0:53:29.040
<v Speaker 2>and it also means I have more to drink. And

0:53:29.080 --> 0:53:30.759
<v Speaker 2>so this idea of do you see the glass is

0:53:30.800 --> 0:53:33.640
<v Speaker 2>half full of half empty? The answer is both, But

0:53:33.640 --> 0:53:35.279
<v Speaker 2>it's the brain doesn't want that answer. The brain just

0:53:35.320 --> 0:53:36.799
<v Speaker 2>wants to choose one or the others. So we either

0:53:36.840 --> 0:53:41.000
<v Speaker 2>become positive or you know, evangelists of our beliefs, or

0:53:41.040 --> 0:53:44.480
<v Speaker 2>we become negative and pessimists of that belief and we

0:53:44.520 --> 0:53:47.480
<v Speaker 2>don't recognize that most things have lots of good in

0:53:47.480 --> 0:53:49.600
<v Speaker 2>them and lots of things that they could improve and yeah,

0:53:49.640 --> 0:53:53.600
<v Speaker 2>and grow. But it's the brain, for simplicity's sake, prefers

0:53:53.600 --> 0:53:54.200
<v Speaker 2>one or the other.

0:53:54.280 --> 0:53:57.360
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, and sometimes it's hard to feel, you know,

0:53:57.520 --> 0:54:00.000
<v Speaker 1>it's difficult because you also don't want to be Sometimes

0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:04.480
<v Speaker 1>you have to choose a specific direction or you know,

0:54:04.520 --> 0:54:09.640
<v Speaker 1>there is specificity to the choices we make. And sometimes

0:54:10.080 --> 0:54:13.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, for integrity, you need to kind of define things,

0:54:13.600 --> 0:54:16.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, is it this or is it that? But anyway,

0:54:17.239 --> 0:54:22.120
<v Speaker 1>it's yeah, it's very context based as well. I find

0:54:22.600 --> 0:54:24.960
<v Speaker 1>but I don't know. I don't know if it's because

0:54:24.960 --> 0:54:28.759
<v Speaker 1>of me also trying to connect with that space, but

0:54:28.800 --> 0:54:30.640
<v Speaker 1>I know a lot of people have told me that,

0:54:31.239 --> 0:54:32.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, there's so many people who have grown up

0:54:32.920 --> 0:54:36.600
<v Speaker 1>in religious environments who have experienced a lot of heavy

0:54:36.719 --> 0:54:44.320
<v Speaker 1>judgment or trauma. Even it seems more common than not sometimes,

0:54:44.400 --> 0:54:46.520
<v Speaker 1>or at least maybe I just encounter people who speak

0:54:46.560 --> 0:54:50.359
<v Speaker 1>about that. And I've felt encouraged that people have said

0:54:50.440 --> 0:54:54.239
<v Speaker 1>when they've come to my events or gatherings that they

0:54:54.320 --> 0:54:58.600
<v Speaker 1>feel it's a safe space to to to be in

0:54:58.640 --> 0:55:02.400
<v Speaker 1>a spiritual space but not have something imposed upon them,

0:55:02.440 --> 0:55:07.920
<v Speaker 1>And I feel happy about that. You know, I want

0:55:07.960 --> 0:55:12.520
<v Speaker 1>to try to hold that tension, and I don't know

0:55:12.520 --> 0:55:15.480
<v Speaker 1>if it's tension, but it's like, you know, walking a

0:55:15.520 --> 0:55:19.239
<v Speaker 1>path of integrity and specificity oneself, but being able to

0:55:20.360 --> 0:55:35.520
<v Speaker 1>create space that feels very inclusive and welcoming for everyone.

0:55:41.480 --> 0:55:44.839
<v Speaker 2>Has there ever been anything that's really difficult that you've

0:55:44.840 --> 0:55:46.920
<v Speaker 2>gone through in life that you feel your faith has

0:55:47.920 --> 0:55:49.520
<v Speaker 2>been integral to moving through.

0:55:50.680 --> 0:55:55.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't think there's been a life event like you know,

0:55:55.320 --> 0:55:59.279
<v Speaker 1>some of the huge things that happen or you know,

0:55:59.360 --> 0:56:03.600
<v Speaker 1>losing a love one, things like that that are often

0:56:03.680 --> 0:56:09.799
<v Speaker 1>the cause of a you know, a deep grief and

0:56:09.920 --> 0:56:13.640
<v Speaker 1>sorrow that you know, it sometimes leads to a spiritual search.

0:56:14.840 --> 0:56:20.240
<v Speaker 1>But I think I have experienced crisis of faith which

0:56:20.320 --> 0:56:22.279
<v Speaker 1>required faith to come out.

0:56:22.760 --> 0:56:23.239
<v Speaker 2>That's good.

0:56:23.360 --> 0:56:27.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, which, yeah, it took me by surprise, you know.

0:56:28.120 --> 0:56:31.279
<v Speaker 1>I think the experience, especially if you're used to being

0:56:31.320 --> 0:56:34.960
<v Speaker 1>someone who who, that's something that you do feel sure of,

0:56:35.200 --> 0:56:37.560
<v Speaker 1>and then when it's suddenly not there, it can feel

0:56:37.600 --> 0:56:40.120
<v Speaker 1>like rug is pulled out from under your feet. And

0:56:41.520 --> 0:56:44.160
<v Speaker 1>I felt like I'm not quite sure who I am.

0:56:44.440 --> 0:56:48.920
<v Speaker 1>You know, you're like like like in a coloring book.

0:56:48.960 --> 0:56:50.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, you've got the lines and that's like the

0:56:50.960 --> 0:56:53.960
<v Speaker 1>defined color within the lines. But imagine if the lines

0:56:54.040 --> 0:56:57.719
<v Speaker 1>just disappeared and you're just color, Like who am I?

0:56:58.080 --> 0:57:02.719
<v Speaker 1>Without that? I have experienced that a couple of times.

0:57:03.160 --> 0:57:06.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's it's an interesting answer

0:57:06.960 --> 0:57:11.439
<v Speaker 2>because yeah, it's like how I hosted the Variety Faith

0:57:11.480 --> 0:57:16.120
<v Speaker 2>and Spirituality on his last week, and I was talking

0:57:16.160 --> 0:57:19.640
<v Speaker 2>about how the people who are being awarded and honored

0:57:20.280 --> 0:57:23.520
<v Speaker 2>they've showed different types of faith, and I was saying

0:57:23.560 --> 0:57:27.880
<v Speaker 2>it showed having faith, messy faith, losing faith, and that's

0:57:27.920 --> 0:57:30.880
<v Speaker 2>what makes it so real. Where I think faith based

0:57:30.920 --> 0:57:34.320
<v Speaker 2>content or people sometimes have always been shown as one note,

0:57:35.000 --> 0:57:37.400
<v Speaker 2>where like this is who you are, or like this

0:57:37.480 --> 0:57:41.200
<v Speaker 2>is the kind of person you should be. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:57:41.240 --> 0:57:46.160
<v Speaker 2>And now I think we're showing these variegated depictions of

0:57:46.520 --> 0:57:49.160
<v Speaker 2>what faith can look like, it's spirituality can look like,

0:57:50.200 --> 0:57:55.040
<v Speaker 2>and it's just so much more real because relata relatable

0:57:55.120 --> 0:57:59.960
<v Speaker 2>and grounded and accessible and yeah, just truly trying to

0:58:00.080 --> 0:58:02.080
<v Speaker 2>spar because that's what it can look like. And I

0:58:02.080 --> 0:58:04.840
<v Speaker 2>think if anyone is a person of how did faith

0:58:04.920 --> 0:58:07.960
<v Speaker 2>help you rEFInd faith when there was a crisis of faith?

0:58:08.280 --> 0:58:11.120
<v Speaker 1>I think there was a period of time and it

0:58:11.200 --> 0:58:16.680
<v Speaker 1>wasn't that long, but because of the disorientation that I felt,

0:58:16.760 --> 0:58:18.640
<v Speaker 1>it felt a lot longer than it was. I think

0:58:19.600 --> 0:58:26.280
<v Speaker 1>of feeling like the faith had just totally evaporated, and

0:58:26.360 --> 0:58:29.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, it feels like a type of it feels

0:58:29.160 --> 0:58:32.120
<v Speaker 1>like a type of darkness because something that had previously

0:58:32.160 --> 0:58:36.600
<v Speaker 1>given you a lot of light and internal support and

0:58:36.720 --> 0:58:40.480
<v Speaker 1>nourishment just seems to disappear or no, it seems like

0:58:40.600 --> 0:58:46.240
<v Speaker 1>vapor that is was that actually real? And I think

0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:51.360
<v Speaker 1>I think faith almost it felt like it seeped in

0:58:51.440 --> 0:58:53.640
<v Speaker 1>almost like a you know, through a pin hole where

0:58:53.680 --> 0:58:55.880
<v Speaker 1>you get light that just comes through a tiny crack

0:58:56.560 --> 0:59:04.080
<v Speaker 1>and it gradually grows. But initially there had to be

0:59:05.400 --> 0:59:07.920
<v Speaker 1>a speck of faith for me to think that faith

0:59:07.960 --> 0:59:11.720
<v Speaker 1>could even return in a way, I had to be

0:59:11.840 --> 0:59:18.520
<v Speaker 1>open to that. And I found through that experience I

0:59:18.560 --> 0:59:29.480
<v Speaker 1>connected more to prayer spontaneously and personally versus more ritual

0:59:29.600 --> 0:59:35.680
<v Speaker 1>type of worship or a set you know, practice or routine,

0:59:36.640 --> 0:59:43.200
<v Speaker 1>more spontaneously, more expressively in English. And it's funny because

0:59:43.200 --> 0:59:47.760
<v Speaker 1>I grew up, you know, completely steeped in prayer, like

0:59:47.880 --> 0:59:50.520
<v Speaker 1>throughout the day, because that's just the environment I was in.

0:59:50.800 --> 0:59:53.919
<v Speaker 1>I was thinking about the soundscape of my life growing up.

0:59:54.240 --> 0:59:57.400
<v Speaker 1>There was always bells ringing, and you know, in my

0:59:57.480 --> 1:00:01.200
<v Speaker 1>tradition we blow this conch shell. There's these kind of

1:00:01.280 --> 1:00:09.160
<v Speaker 1>spiritual sounds around and ancient Mantra's Sanskrit was a very

1:00:09.200 --> 1:00:13.280
<v Speaker 1>familiar language for me. But what I didn't have confidence

1:00:13.320 --> 1:00:16.440
<v Speaker 1>and ease with was praying in the language that I

1:00:16.480 --> 1:00:20.440
<v Speaker 1>speak and actually being that personal to just be alone

1:00:20.520 --> 1:00:24.920
<v Speaker 1>and speak those words whatever was coming up. And I

1:00:24.960 --> 1:00:28.160
<v Speaker 1>think that was a really transformative experience and time for

1:00:28.280 --> 1:00:30.680
<v Speaker 1>me and actually led to some of the songs that

1:00:30.720 --> 1:00:34.880
<v Speaker 1>I've recorded because eventually I thought, you know, you don't

1:00:34.920 --> 1:00:37.880
<v Speaker 1>always think like that I should record this because it's

1:00:37.880 --> 1:00:42.280
<v Speaker 1>so personal and specific. But I did feel that I

1:00:42.400 --> 1:00:45.320
<v Speaker 1>bet there are others who go through these times or

1:00:45.360 --> 1:00:50.080
<v Speaker 1>who feel these these emotions, who may it may enable

1:00:50.160 --> 1:00:52.840
<v Speaker 1>them to express words that they can't find the words

1:00:53.280 --> 1:00:53.760
<v Speaker 1>to say.

1:00:54.520 --> 1:00:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Do you think we all need to talk to God

1:00:56.560 --> 1:00:57.920
<v Speaker 2>more one?

1:01:01.880 --> 1:01:05.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I was thinking about this ahead of our chat

1:01:05.960 --> 1:01:09.960
<v Speaker 1>because I was thinking about how much you know, in

1:01:10.000 --> 1:01:12.280
<v Speaker 1>the last I don't know if it's the last decade,

1:01:12.360 --> 1:01:15.280
<v Speaker 1>but of course mindfulness is a word that we've heard

1:01:15.320 --> 1:01:21.320
<v Speaker 1>so much. Meditation has become something that is so in

1:01:21.680 --> 1:01:25.240
<v Speaker 1>many ways integrated into you know, it's not that everyone

1:01:25.320 --> 1:01:27.720
<v Speaker 1>does it, but if you say it, no one's going

1:01:27.800 --> 1:01:29.880
<v Speaker 1>to probably look at you funny. You might see people

1:01:29.920 --> 1:01:32.320
<v Speaker 1>doing in an ad or you know. I always remember

1:01:32.360 --> 1:01:35.000
<v Speaker 1>walking into I think it was gap or something, you know,

1:01:35.000 --> 1:01:37.360
<v Speaker 1>on a high street, and there were these mannequins sitting

1:01:37.440 --> 1:01:40.680
<v Speaker 1>like this in the lotus position, and I was like, oh, interesting,

1:01:40.760 --> 1:01:45.040
<v Speaker 1>this is like filtering into just everyday you know, culture

1:01:45.120 --> 1:01:50.480
<v Speaker 1>and fashion. But I was thinking about how meditation can

1:01:51.120 --> 1:01:56.040
<v Speaker 1>bring us into this space of stillness and internal connection.

1:01:57.480 --> 1:02:02.080
<v Speaker 1>But what am I meditating on and the difference between

1:02:02.280 --> 1:02:07.560
<v Speaker 1>just coming to a place of groundedness, stillness, calming the mind,

1:02:08.280 --> 1:02:13.720
<v Speaker 1>and prayer, to me is quite distinct. That's my personal

1:02:13.760 --> 1:02:16.640
<v Speaker 1>take on it. You know, someone may use those terms

1:02:16.680 --> 1:02:22.040
<v Speaker 1>differently and describe it differently, but I feel like, yeah,

1:02:22.080 --> 1:02:26.720
<v Speaker 1>if prayer is not something that you've ever done, or

1:02:26.800 --> 1:02:29.560
<v Speaker 1>even if it is something that's familiar that you did

1:02:29.600 --> 1:02:32.680
<v Speaker 1>grow up with, I feel like, you know, sometimes they

1:02:32.680 --> 1:02:35.080
<v Speaker 1>say I'll just try doing something with your left hand

1:02:35.240 --> 1:02:38.320
<v Speaker 1>or your non dominant hand because it will reveal something

1:02:38.320 --> 1:02:41.160
<v Speaker 1>to you, or you'll feel a different way of looking

1:02:41.200 --> 1:02:46.760
<v Speaker 1>at something and doing something. I think, yeah, it might

1:02:46.800 --> 1:02:49.480
<v Speaker 1>be something that listeners would like to try, you know,

1:02:49.640 --> 1:02:52.800
<v Speaker 1>to either approach it for the first time or approach

1:02:52.840 --> 1:02:55.160
<v Speaker 1>it through a different pathway, like.

1:02:55.480 --> 1:02:58.120
<v Speaker 2>What you've been used to, take a new neural pathway.

1:02:58.160 --> 1:02:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Almost yeah, yeah, why not?

1:03:00.520 --> 1:03:04.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, sometimes it sometimes it involves you know, there's

1:03:04.040 --> 1:03:07.240
<v Speaker 1>so many different ways that people pray. For some people

1:03:07.280 --> 1:03:10.760
<v Speaker 1>it's very spontaneous. Some people have a very ritualized way

1:03:10.800 --> 1:03:14.600
<v Speaker 1>of placing their body in a certain position or doing

1:03:14.680 --> 1:03:17.920
<v Speaker 1>certain actions. And I think all of those things are

1:03:17.960 --> 1:03:22.480
<v Speaker 1>designed to bring us into a certain state of mind

1:03:22.760 --> 1:03:27.480
<v Speaker 1>and of being that allows can allow you to express

1:03:27.600 --> 1:03:31.760
<v Speaker 1>some of these deepest, these deepest sentiments that are otherwise

1:03:31.920 --> 1:03:34.880
<v Speaker 1>quite hard to access in a natural way.

1:03:35.560 --> 1:03:39.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. Yeah. I for me, like, I find

1:03:39.360 --> 1:03:40.920
<v Speaker 2>I love talking to God when I'm driving.

1:03:41.080 --> 1:03:41.960
<v Speaker 1>I do that, I do.

1:03:42.040 --> 1:03:43.040
<v Speaker 2>That's my favorite. Yeah.

1:03:43.320 --> 1:03:45.600
<v Speaker 1>In one of the hardest times I experienced, that was

1:03:45.640 --> 1:03:48.880
<v Speaker 1>the time you just reminded me of that. I would

1:03:48.920 --> 1:03:54.880
<v Speaker 1>just talk. Yeah, driving by myself, cry speak sing.

1:03:55.200 --> 1:03:58.280
<v Speaker 2>I find driving to be so therapeutic in a place

1:03:58.360 --> 1:04:02.640
<v Speaker 2>to share streams of Yeah, and I always love it.

1:04:02.680 --> 1:04:04.760
<v Speaker 2>I think it also reminds me of that Bruce Almighty

1:04:04.800 --> 1:04:07.360
<v Speaker 2>scene where he's like asking God for a sign. Yeah,

1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:10.000
<v Speaker 2>God keeps sending him loads of signs and ignoring them,

1:04:10.000 --> 1:04:12.320
<v Speaker 2>and then his car goes off the bridge or whatever

1:04:12.360 --> 1:04:14.520
<v Speaker 2>it is, and I'm like, yeah, I'm always looking around

1:04:14.560 --> 1:04:18.120
<v Speaker 2>for signs, and I'm driving and connecting billboards to God's

1:04:18.160 --> 1:04:20.440
<v Speaker 2>message to me. And it's just like this fun idea

1:04:20.560 --> 1:04:23.720
<v Speaker 2>that that there's some you know, there's some power in

1:04:23.760 --> 1:04:26.800
<v Speaker 2>what I'm reading and seeing. So I love that last

1:04:26.880 --> 1:04:30.080
<v Speaker 2>question before the final five, what's a question you ask

1:04:30.160 --> 1:04:32.080
<v Speaker 2>yourself when you feel lost.

1:04:32.320 --> 1:04:42.760
<v Speaker 1>M Am I connected with my Am I am I

1:04:42.840 --> 1:04:48.880
<v Speaker 1>being of service? Am I actually connected with service in

1:04:48.880 --> 1:04:50.080
<v Speaker 1>this moment.

1:04:50.600 --> 1:04:53.040
<v Speaker 2>Because you believe that if you're connected to service, then

1:04:53.120 --> 1:04:54.800
<v Speaker 2>you'll have found where you belong.

1:04:55.280 --> 1:04:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I feel like it's a state of being which

1:04:57.800 --> 1:05:02.680
<v Speaker 1>is protective because it's protective of the experience of being

1:05:02.680 --> 1:05:08.880
<v Speaker 1>totally lost because you're focusing on giving. It's hard being

1:05:09.800 --> 1:05:13.280
<v Speaker 1>embodied human. You know, it's so easy to feel lost

1:05:13.320 --> 1:05:16.320
<v Speaker 1>for so many different reasons. But when you're thinking about

1:05:16.320 --> 1:05:19.440
<v Speaker 1>how you can serve someone else, whatever that may look like,

1:05:19.600 --> 1:05:21.440
<v Speaker 1>I find that that really helps me.

1:05:21.960 --> 1:05:24.400
<v Speaker 2>It's such a great answer, and I could agree more.

1:05:24.400 --> 1:05:26.000
<v Speaker 2>And I think it's I think it's one of the

1:05:26.040 --> 1:05:33.360
<v Speaker 2>biggest losses of modern education and modern space, where everything

1:05:33.400 --> 1:05:36.280
<v Speaker 2>to solve you is all about you and not about

1:05:36.280 --> 1:05:38.640
<v Speaker 2>anyone else. And there's been studies on this too, like

1:05:38.720 --> 1:05:41.280
<v Speaker 2>if you have depression and you help people who have depression,

1:05:41.360 --> 1:05:44.240
<v Speaker 2>your depression goes down. And so even in a really

1:05:44.320 --> 1:05:48.200
<v Speaker 2>difficult state, the active service can still be helpful to yourself.

1:05:48.240 --> 1:05:51.400
<v Speaker 2>What to speak of when things are not that bad? Yeah,

1:05:51.440 --> 1:05:54.720
<v Speaker 2>and Yeah, it's fascinating to me how we always think Oh,

1:05:54.720 --> 1:05:56.479
<v Speaker 2>if I have more than I'll be able to give more.

1:05:56.520 --> 1:06:00.200
<v Speaker 2>But actually, wherever you are just now, you already may

1:06:00.200 --> 1:06:01.840
<v Speaker 2>have a little more than someone else. And if you

1:06:01.840 --> 1:06:05.360
<v Speaker 2>can help and support in whatever way, time, energy, money,

1:06:05.400 --> 1:06:08.840
<v Speaker 2>if that is your way of helping. Yeah, I love

1:06:08.880 --> 1:06:10.320
<v Speaker 2>that answer. It is such a good answer.

1:06:10.720 --> 1:06:13.120
<v Speaker 1>It's something I've been I've been trying to to say

1:06:13.160 --> 1:06:16.160
<v Speaker 1>this this prayer every day and it's it's it's a

1:06:16.200 --> 1:06:19.000
<v Speaker 1>traditional Sanskrit prayer. I won't say all the words, but

1:06:19.080 --> 1:06:22.880
<v Speaker 1>it ends with the phrase das anudas and that means,

1:06:23.520 --> 1:06:27.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, servant of the servant. And it's funny when

1:06:27.560 --> 1:06:29.360
<v Speaker 1>when I when I was growing up, and you know,

1:06:29.400 --> 1:06:31.760
<v Speaker 1>this is one of those things that in a in

1:06:31.800 --> 1:06:34.680
<v Speaker 1>a religious community, a certain thing becomes a way that

1:06:34.720 --> 1:06:37.320
<v Speaker 1>people do things which from the outside can seem a

1:06:37.360 --> 1:06:40.760
<v Speaker 1>bit weird. Yeah, so everybody would sign a letter or

1:06:40.800 --> 1:06:46.160
<v Speaker 1>a message your servant. And I can't remember when it happened,

1:06:46.160 --> 1:06:49.440
<v Speaker 1>but maybe we were visiting some relatives or something. But

1:06:50.000 --> 1:06:51.640
<v Speaker 1>I just saw that through a different lens and I

1:06:51.680 --> 1:06:54.240
<v Speaker 1>thought that must sound so funny because the idea of

1:06:54.280 --> 1:06:56.960
<v Speaker 1>being a servant is not something that we would regard

1:06:57.080 --> 1:07:02.400
<v Speaker 1>very highly, you know, in a sort of like regular world.

1:07:04.240 --> 1:07:07.880
<v Speaker 1>But it's a really profound spiritual idea that to identify

1:07:08.040 --> 1:07:11.680
<v Speaker 1>as a servant as like an essential identity keeps you

1:07:11.760 --> 1:07:17.080
<v Speaker 1>always looking for ways to contribute and give. So, yeah,

1:07:16.160 --> 1:07:18.919
<v Speaker 1>I find that really helps me a lot.

1:07:19.160 --> 1:07:21.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's yeah, I think if you it's really interesting

1:07:21.920 --> 1:07:27.560
<v Speaker 2>because I think the misconception of that is when we think, oh,

1:07:27.640 --> 1:07:29.680
<v Speaker 2>that means I have to stay small.

1:07:29.560 --> 1:07:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, or that means I'm going to be exploited.

1:07:32.000 --> 1:07:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Correct, correct, And it's almost like there's been the servant

1:07:35.600 --> 1:07:38.880
<v Speaker 2>leadership movement and even the idea of oh, you could

1:07:38.880 --> 1:07:42.200
<v Speaker 2>be the SEO of a company and see yourself in

1:07:42.320 --> 1:07:45.320
<v Speaker 2>service of others. Yeah, Like it's not based on your

1:07:45.360 --> 1:07:49.080
<v Speaker 2>position in society. It's based on the mood and intention

1:07:49.760 --> 1:07:52.560
<v Speaker 2>that you do that act with. So someone could be

1:07:52.560 --> 1:07:54.680
<v Speaker 2>the coach of the biggest soccer team in the world

1:07:55.200 --> 1:07:58.760
<v Speaker 2>and see themselves as serving their team, and someone can

1:07:58.800 --> 1:08:00.640
<v Speaker 2>be the best player in the world and see themselves

1:08:00.680 --> 1:08:04.080
<v Speaker 2>as serving their team. Or you could be all those

1:08:04.080 --> 1:08:05.760
<v Speaker 2>things and think you're the best thing in the world

1:08:05.800 --> 1:08:08.320
<v Speaker 2>and no one else is important, and so it's got

1:08:08.360 --> 1:08:11.200
<v Speaker 2>nothing to do with your external position. And I think

1:08:11.240 --> 1:08:13.800
<v Speaker 2>the problem we think is, Oh, my external position has

1:08:13.840 --> 1:08:16.720
<v Speaker 2>to match that. Yeah, so therefore I want to be small. Yeah,

1:08:16.720 --> 1:08:18.280
<v Speaker 2>I've got to be small and play small. And it

1:08:18.320 --> 1:08:19.960
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make any sense because.

1:08:19.840 --> 1:08:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'd like to understand. I'd like to to understand

1:08:24.280 --> 1:08:26.800
<v Speaker 1>and grasp that more deeply, because I think I still

1:08:26.800 --> 1:08:29.879
<v Speaker 1>struggle with that. Like you've always, you know, in our friendship,

1:08:29.920 --> 1:08:33.519
<v Speaker 1>You've always encouraged me to embrace what I'm doing and

1:08:33.680 --> 1:08:39.040
<v Speaker 1>be you know, unafraid to to I guess, grow and

1:08:39.240 --> 1:08:42.439
<v Speaker 1>broadcast out what I'm doing, you know, bigger and bigger

1:08:42.760 --> 1:08:46.679
<v Speaker 1>as a service. But it's so difficult when you're you're

1:08:47.479 --> 1:08:50.840
<v Speaker 1>you're more visible or more in a position of leadership

1:08:51.280 --> 1:08:55.400
<v Speaker 1>to continue to kind of, yeah, harmonize that that idea

1:08:55.479 --> 1:08:58.800
<v Speaker 1>that I'm serving, but also have to kind of have

1:08:58.880 --> 1:09:01.160
<v Speaker 1>the things that go along with being more in a

1:09:01.240 --> 1:09:05.240
<v Speaker 1>leadership position. I don't know, for me, I find it challenging.

1:09:05.439 --> 1:09:08.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I don't disagree. I think that the more

1:09:08.520 --> 1:09:12.479
<v Speaker 2>closer you get to your unique service, the less you

1:09:12.520 --> 1:09:14.800
<v Speaker 2>see it as big and small, and the more you

1:09:14.880 --> 1:09:17.559
<v Speaker 2>see it as just yours, and so there is no

1:09:18.479 --> 1:09:21.400
<v Speaker 2>it kind of fades away because it's so clearly what

1:09:21.439 --> 1:09:24.639
<v Speaker 2>you were meant to do that. Then you don't see

1:09:24.680 --> 1:09:28.200
<v Speaker 2>it as big or expansive or small or not. It's

1:09:28.320 --> 1:09:32.200
<v Speaker 2>just is. And therefore I find that people who know

1:09:32.320 --> 1:09:35.880
<v Speaker 2>their purpose and their drama are less envious, and less

1:09:36.320 --> 1:09:40.000
<v Speaker 2>comparative and less all of those things because they just

1:09:40.040 --> 1:09:40.760
<v Speaker 2>found their thing.

1:09:41.200 --> 1:09:44.639
<v Speaker 1>You know, you can't be or do what someone else

1:09:44.720 --> 1:09:48.000
<v Speaker 1>is doing because correct, you know yourself so well and correct,

1:09:48.080 --> 1:09:49.960
<v Speaker 1>and you feel aligned in what you're doing. I guess

1:09:50.120 --> 1:09:52.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess I'm coming to that. I'm coming to that now.

1:09:53.200 --> 1:09:57.080
<v Speaker 1>I think I've finally accepted myself as doing what I'm doing.

1:09:57.120 --> 1:09:59.679
<v Speaker 1>And this is why I an't taken a long time.

1:10:00.040 --> 1:10:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we'll got in the universe. Had to nominate you

1:10:01.920 --> 1:10:04.200
<v Speaker 2>for a dammy to get you to understand that.

1:10:04.240 --> 1:10:07.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he knows that I need a big push,

1:10:07.400 --> 1:10:07.600
<v Speaker 1>you know.

1:10:07.800 --> 1:10:10.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I love it, Janney. This has been so nice

1:10:10.080 --> 1:10:11.920
<v Speaker 2>getting to know you this way. Like I know, we've

1:10:12.120 --> 1:10:14.280
<v Speaker 2>we've had so many conversations. I mean, whenever you're over

1:10:14.360 --> 1:10:15.880
<v Speaker 2>at the house and you come up and will like

1:10:16.479 --> 1:10:18.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, stay up and talk for hours and hours

1:10:18.520 --> 1:10:20.760
<v Speaker 2>and hours. You know, I love having these conversations. But

1:10:20.800 --> 1:10:22.800
<v Speaker 2>I film so glad I get to share you with

1:10:22.920 --> 1:10:25.120
<v Speaker 2>the community. And I know you've been on before a

1:10:25.120 --> 1:10:27.800
<v Speaker 2>few years back. Now that was twenty twenty twenty, was

1:10:27.800 --> 1:10:28.920
<v Speaker 2>it twenty twenty.

1:10:28.680 --> 1:10:29.840
<v Speaker 1>That was in your old place.

1:10:30.280 --> 1:10:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, so amazing to have you back on.

1:10:33.120 --> 1:10:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Thank you. And I'm a fan of the podcast, so

1:10:34.960 --> 1:10:36.479
<v Speaker 1>this is like very cool for me.

1:10:37.880 --> 1:10:40.679
<v Speaker 2>It's awesome to have you here. And we end every episode,

1:10:40.680 --> 1:10:42.120
<v Speaker 2>as you know as a fan of the podcast, with

1:10:42.160 --> 1:10:42.840
<v Speaker 2>a final five.

1:10:43.000 --> 1:10:43.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:10:43.360 --> 1:10:45.320
<v Speaker 2>These questions have to be answered in one word to

1:10:45.400 --> 1:10:48.200
<v Speaker 2>one sentence maximum Wow, everyone does one sentence and no

1:10:48.240 --> 1:10:51.320
<v Speaker 2>one okay, okay, So Johannavie Harrison, these are your final

1:10:51.360 --> 1:10:55.000
<v Speaker 2>five thank you. Question one, what is the best advice

1:10:55.200 --> 1:10:56.400
<v Speaker 2>you've ever heard or received?

1:10:58.640 --> 1:10:59.479
<v Speaker 1>Don't be afraid?

1:11:01.680 --> 1:11:03.000
<v Speaker 2>He told you that, do you remember.

1:11:03.520 --> 1:11:05.840
<v Speaker 1>I've heard it from many different people, but I think

1:11:05.960 --> 1:11:09.599
<v Speaker 1>my parents' mentors. Yeah, and it's there in the bugger

1:11:09.640 --> 1:11:13.479
<v Speaker 1>with Gita. Don't be afraid, have trust and courage and

1:11:14.320 --> 1:11:18.960
<v Speaker 1>keep walking forward. Yes, purpose yes. Question number two, what

1:11:19.080 --> 1:11:23.559
<v Speaker 1>is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Anything

1:11:23.640 --> 1:11:26.880
<v Speaker 1>related to what will other people think?

1:11:28.040 --> 1:11:31.640
<v Speaker 2>Definitely? Definitely. It's when you say you want to do

1:11:31.680 --> 1:11:33.799
<v Speaker 2>something and goes what will they say? What will Yeah?

1:11:34.160 --> 1:11:35.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, it's a good answer.

1:11:36.240 --> 1:11:41.080
<v Speaker 2>Question number three, is there a decision you made that

1:11:41.120 --> 1:11:44.479
<v Speaker 2>didn't make any logical sense but was the right one

1:11:44.520 --> 1:11:44.800
<v Speaker 2>for you?

1:11:46.200 --> 1:11:51.960
<v Speaker 1>The decision I made to on purpose miss a plane

1:11:52.720 --> 1:11:55.559
<v Speaker 1>home to get to take up this job as a

1:11:55.600 --> 1:12:01.519
<v Speaker 1>magazine editor. I've never I'm always like a real rule follower,

1:12:01.520 --> 1:12:04.200
<v Speaker 1>and the fact that I had a flight book is

1:12:04.439 --> 1:12:06.880
<v Speaker 1>and that I intentionally missed it and just said I'm

1:12:07.000 --> 1:12:09.680
<v Speaker 1>going to drop that. That didn't make any sense at

1:12:09.680 --> 1:12:11.920
<v Speaker 1>the time, and the next morning when I woke up,

1:12:11.960 --> 1:12:13.760
<v Speaker 1>I was like, what did I do? But I think

1:12:13.800 --> 1:12:16.160
<v Speaker 1>I was trying to follow a deeper intuition and it

1:12:16.200 --> 1:12:20.599
<v Speaker 1>turned out to lead me to this and many other moments,

1:12:21.200 --> 1:12:25.440
<v Speaker 1>but that it took a long time for me to realize. Yeah,

1:12:25.600 --> 1:12:28.000
<v Speaker 1>I had to have confidence in that decision along the way.

1:12:28.320 --> 1:12:31.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm so glad you did that question of before,

1:12:31.680 --> 1:12:33.920
<v Speaker 2>what's something that you used to value that you don't

1:12:33.960 --> 1:12:34.639
<v Speaker 2>value anymore.

1:12:35.560 --> 1:12:37.479
<v Speaker 1>I think I used to put a lot more value

1:12:37.520 --> 1:12:40.920
<v Speaker 1>on other people's opinions, and that doesn't mean that I

1:12:41.080 --> 1:12:46.080
<v Speaker 1>don't now, but it's something I've actively worked on because

1:12:46.360 --> 1:12:53.240
<v Speaker 1>I've realized how how damaging it can be to place

1:12:53.360 --> 1:12:57.559
<v Speaker 1>that much weight and concern on what other people are

1:12:57.600 --> 1:13:01.040
<v Speaker 1>thinking and saying I don't know if I could have

1:13:02.560 --> 1:13:05.559
<v Speaker 1>come to that point any earlier. Yeah, part of growing

1:13:05.640 --> 1:13:07.080
<v Speaker 1>up for sure.

1:13:07.240 --> 1:13:09.800
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, it's the biggest one. It's it's a weird one.

1:13:09.840 --> 1:13:11.880
<v Speaker 2>You want to It's almost like you want to choose

1:13:12.080 --> 1:13:15.240
<v Speaker 2>which opinions you listen to from which people. Yeah, because

1:13:15.280 --> 1:13:17.439
<v Speaker 2>we all have to listen to someone like yeah, and

1:13:17.600 --> 1:13:19.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, as we talk about in spirituality, there has

1:13:19.680 --> 1:13:23.120
<v Speaker 2>to be some sense of authority and the challenges when

1:13:23.120 --> 1:13:25.840
<v Speaker 2>you give everyone an authority of yeah, and all of

1:13:25.840 --> 1:13:28.920
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, now you listen to everyone with equal You

1:13:29.000 --> 1:13:32.880
<v Speaker 2>listen to everyone with equal attention despite their lack of

1:13:32.920 --> 1:13:36.360
<v Speaker 2>authority or competence or character. Weight to give weight when

1:13:36.400 --> 1:13:38.599
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't have any value. Yeah, that's what I think

1:13:38.640 --> 1:13:40.400
<v Speaker 2>is the issue. We all have to listen to someone,

1:13:40.439 --> 1:13:44.240
<v Speaker 2>but we give too much weight and value to people

1:13:44.280 --> 1:13:46.960
<v Speaker 2>who don't know anything about that or us.

1:13:47.240 --> 1:13:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think I used to do that to the extreme,

1:13:50.120 --> 1:13:53.080
<v Speaker 1>probably because of also growing up in an environment where

1:13:53.680 --> 1:13:57.400
<v Speaker 1>you're expected to, you know, respectfully hear from anyone who's

1:13:57.400 --> 1:14:00.200
<v Speaker 1>older than you or you know, knows more than you.

1:14:01.760 --> 1:14:04.760
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, it's I'm a work in progress for sure.

1:14:04.880 --> 1:14:06.720
<v Speaker 2>No, I came up with a system whenever I thinks

1:14:06.760 --> 1:14:08.679
<v Speaker 2>like a monk to make it easier because I struggled

1:14:08.680 --> 1:14:13.120
<v Speaker 2>with that so much. Inspiritual circles, for sure, but in general,

1:14:13.160 --> 1:14:16.400
<v Speaker 2>and I came up with something that I call the

1:14:16.439 --> 1:14:21.800
<v Speaker 2>four season, which is character, care, consistency, and competence. And

1:14:21.880 --> 1:14:23.680
<v Speaker 2>so I think about the problem that I have and

1:14:23.680 --> 1:14:25.439
<v Speaker 2>then I figure out who I'm speaking to based on

1:14:25.439 --> 1:14:27.920
<v Speaker 2>one of those four. So if it's a morality question,

1:14:28.400 --> 1:14:30.960
<v Speaker 2>I have to ask the person of high character, because

1:14:30.960 --> 1:14:32.559
<v Speaker 2>if I just ask the person who cares about me,

1:14:32.640 --> 1:14:37.040
<v Speaker 2>they may bend morality in my favor. Or if I

1:14:37.080 --> 1:14:39.519
<v Speaker 2>am worried about my health, I've got to talk to

1:14:39.560 --> 1:14:42.320
<v Speaker 2>the person who cares about me but is also competent,

1:14:42.880 --> 1:14:46.240
<v Speaker 2>whereas the person who might have who might consistently be

1:14:46.360 --> 1:14:49.040
<v Speaker 2>around me, they may not have the best insight and advice.

1:14:49.439 --> 1:14:50.760
<v Speaker 2>Or like, for example, if I talk to my mom,

1:14:50.880 --> 1:14:53.960
<v Speaker 2>she just cares if I've eaten well, but she won't

1:14:54.200 --> 1:14:56.519
<v Speaker 2>give me the best work advice because she'd prefer I

1:14:56.600 --> 1:14:59.240
<v Speaker 2>take care of myself then do something good for work.

1:14:59.280 --> 1:15:01.639
<v Speaker 1>And so do they all four have to be there

1:15:01.760 --> 1:15:03.519
<v Speaker 1>or it's different things for different stuff.

1:15:03.600 --> 1:15:07.439
<v Speaker 2>I believe no one has all four Oh and there

1:15:07.439 --> 1:15:10.360
<v Speaker 2>are different things for different decisions. Yeah, and they just

1:15:10.400 --> 1:15:13.840
<v Speaker 2>care about you. Yeah, so there's advice is skewed, but

1:15:13.920 --> 1:15:16.840
<v Speaker 2>their opinion is also. One of my favorite quotes says,

1:15:17.800 --> 1:15:21.400
<v Speaker 2>don't take directions from someone who's never been to where

1:15:21.400 --> 1:15:23.840
<v Speaker 2>you're going. And we all do that. We all take

1:15:23.880 --> 1:15:26.320
<v Speaker 2>someone's opinion and they've not even been there, they've never

1:15:26.920 --> 1:15:29.320
<v Speaker 2>they've never reached that or achieved that, and we're sitting

1:15:29.400 --> 1:15:33.280
<v Speaker 2>here taking their word as gospel. Yeah, and so yeah,

1:15:33.320 --> 1:15:35.320
<v Speaker 2>those four sees have kind of really helped me.

1:15:35.640 --> 1:15:36.679
<v Speaker 1>That is really helpful.

1:15:36.920 --> 1:15:37.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, tough.

1:15:37.600 --> 1:15:41.240
<v Speaker 1>It's tough one to learn because you may have people

1:15:41.320 --> 1:15:43.640
<v Speaker 1>that are very close to you and you assume that

1:15:44.200 --> 1:15:46.759
<v Speaker 1>by intimacy, by the fact that they know you so deeply,

1:15:46.880 --> 1:15:50.679
<v Speaker 1>that they will have all or at least most of those.

1:15:50.840 --> 1:15:52.880
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, it's necessarily the case.

1:15:53.000 --> 1:15:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, even even my mom, Like my mom has a

1:15:55.280 --> 1:15:58.640
<v Speaker 2>very good character. She cares about me, she's consistent, but

1:15:58.680 --> 1:16:01.160
<v Speaker 2>she's not competent in every She's competent in some are

1:16:01.240 --> 1:16:03.720
<v Speaker 2>is there some things my mom has great insight on you,

1:16:03.840 --> 1:16:06.920
<v Speaker 2>but she's not competent in every area of my life

1:16:06.920 --> 1:16:09.040
<v Speaker 2>and therefore it's not you know then anyway, all right,

1:16:09.040 --> 1:16:11.599
<v Speaker 2>Fifth and final question. We asked this every guest who's

1:16:11.600 --> 1:16:13.760
<v Speaker 2>ever been on the show. If you could create one

1:16:13.880 --> 1:16:16.400
<v Speaker 2>law that everyone in the world had to follow, what

1:16:16.439 --> 1:16:16.960
<v Speaker 2>would it be.

1:16:18.240 --> 1:16:25.120
<v Speaker 1>I would love everyone to talk to God more. I

1:16:25.160 --> 1:16:27.479
<v Speaker 1>feel like I feel like a lot of you know,

1:16:27.560 --> 1:16:31.439
<v Speaker 1>like a domino effect, a lot of things would shift.

1:16:33.680 --> 1:16:37.160
<v Speaker 1>And I know it sounds like a cliche, but to

1:16:37.320 --> 1:16:42.360
<v Speaker 1>truly have this mood of being in service to others,

1:16:42.479 --> 1:16:45.920
<v Speaker 1>to each other. Imagine if that was like a compulsory

1:16:45.960 --> 1:16:51.360
<v Speaker 1>thing just to be a citizen of the world. I

1:16:51.360 --> 1:16:52.799
<v Speaker 1>think it would be a beautiful world.

1:16:52.960 --> 1:16:55.160
<v Speaker 2>It's a great answer. How do you know if you're

1:16:55.200 --> 1:16:56.679
<v Speaker 2>talking to God or talking to yourself?

1:16:57.360 --> 1:17:01.840
<v Speaker 1>You know it's intention. You might it might look like

1:17:01.960 --> 1:17:06.400
<v Speaker 1>you're talking to yourself, but I think you it's. Yeah,

1:17:06.439 --> 1:17:11.240
<v Speaker 1>it's purely about your intention. If you address God, I mean,

1:17:11.840 --> 1:17:15.920
<v Speaker 1>if you are familiar with any spiritual tradition, most most

1:17:15.960 --> 1:17:21.760
<v Speaker 1>will agree that God is everywhere, in everything, everything is

1:17:21.800 --> 1:17:26.840
<v Speaker 1>coming from Him her, and so there's so many different

1:17:26.840 --> 1:17:30.439
<v Speaker 1>ways to do that. And yeah, you can do it

1:17:30.479 --> 1:17:32.519
<v Speaker 1>in your own way, or you can get guidance on

1:17:32.560 --> 1:17:36.040
<v Speaker 1>how to do it. But I think if you've if

1:17:36.080 --> 1:17:40.519
<v Speaker 1>you've not experienced it before, it's just it's it's so

1:17:40.680 --> 1:17:45.360
<v Speaker 1>worth it, and it's not worth it's not worth missing

1:17:45.439 --> 1:17:48.800
<v Speaker 1>out on what you may find through that experience, to

1:17:49.040 --> 1:17:51.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, to kind of leave it aside.

1:17:52.120 --> 1:17:55.400
<v Speaker 2>Everyone. The album is called Into the Forest. Jenevie Harrison

1:17:55.439 --> 1:17:57.360
<v Speaker 2>just got nominated for a Grammy. I'm so excited. I'll

1:17:57.400 --> 1:17:59.960
<v Speaker 2>be the game key. Yeah, the thing has crossed.

1:18:00.080 --> 1:18:02.879
<v Speaker 1>Hoping see you in two months, hoping for the way. Yeah.

1:18:03.120 --> 1:18:05.719
<v Speaker 2>For any of you don't already, please follow Janavi Arrison

1:18:05.840 --> 1:18:08.760
<v Speaker 2>on Instagram. You can subscribe to your music on Spotify

1:18:08.880 --> 1:18:11.920
<v Speaker 2>and listen along to the album she's mentioned today. And Johnavian,

1:18:11.960 --> 1:18:14.200
<v Speaker 2>thank you so much for being such a dear friend,

1:18:14.400 --> 1:18:17.800
<v Speaker 2>for doing this interview, and so proud of you, so

1:18:17.880 --> 1:18:22.320
<v Speaker 2>excited for this really big moment in your amazing career.

1:18:22.400 --> 1:18:26.599
<v Speaker 2>And thank you just you doing something based on service

1:18:26.640 --> 1:18:29.240
<v Speaker 2>and devotion and it being recognized at this level. It's

1:18:29.280 --> 1:18:30.160
<v Speaker 2>so exciting you.

1:18:30.280 --> 1:18:32.439
<v Speaker 1>I want to say thank you to you because you've

1:18:32.479 --> 1:18:38.400
<v Speaker 1>been such an encouraging friend. But also I think so

1:18:38.479 --> 1:18:41.519
<v Speaker 1>many of these very meaningful moments in my journey have

1:18:41.640 --> 1:18:46.160
<v Speaker 1>been somehow connected to you through through serving together, I've

1:18:46.240 --> 1:18:50.040
<v Speaker 1>learned so much and I recognize that a lot of

1:18:50.640 --> 1:18:55.080
<v Speaker 1>significant growth that I've had has been through your encouragement.

1:18:55.400 --> 1:18:58.439
<v Speaker 1>So I really feel that. So I share the Grammy

1:18:58.479 --> 1:18:59.320
<v Speaker 1>nom with you.

1:19:00.760 --> 1:19:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, and everyone add that to my bio. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:19:05.400 --> 1:19:07.960
<v Speaker 1>No, it's really a privilege. I'm so grateful to be here.

1:19:08.080 --> 1:19:11.080
<v Speaker 2>No, you're so kind and honestly, it's been such a joy.

1:19:11.120 --> 1:19:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Like it's fun looking back at those pictures of the

1:19:13.880 --> 1:19:14.599
<v Speaker 2>last twenty years.

1:19:14.640 --> 1:19:15.679
<v Speaker 1>Did you mention Weymouth?

1:19:16.640 --> 1:19:19.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, do you know the funny thing about that

1:19:19.280 --> 1:19:21.360
<v Speaker 2>picture is I'm actually sitting behind a pillar, so you

1:19:21.400 --> 1:19:23.920
<v Speaker 2>can't even see me in it. But it's like, yeah,

1:19:23.920 --> 1:19:25.880
<v Speaker 2>we drove to Weymouth, which I can't remember how father

1:19:26.000 --> 1:19:26.599
<v Speaker 2>is from London.

1:19:26.680 --> 1:19:28.639
<v Speaker 1>I think it was about three hours, three.

1:19:28.479 --> 1:19:30.720
<v Speaker 2>Hours, We stayed the night, We did an event as

1:19:30.800 --> 1:19:31.840
<v Speaker 2>like ten people came.

1:19:32.280 --> 1:19:34.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and like, I mean it's a beautiful event.

1:19:34.120 --> 1:19:35.680
<v Speaker 2>It was a beautiful event. But that's the kind of

1:19:35.840 --> 1:19:39.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's fun talking about these things because it's

1:19:39.320 --> 1:19:41.120
<v Speaker 2>easy to sit here now and you know, you nominate

1:19:41.160 --> 1:19:42.800
<v Speaker 2>for Grammy and all the rest of it. But it's like, no,

1:19:42.880 --> 1:19:45.400
<v Speaker 2>it's like we used to drive three hours and I

1:19:45.439 --> 1:19:48.240
<v Speaker 2>would do a talk and you would chant and lead

1:19:48.280 --> 1:19:54.519
<v Speaker 2>meditations and we would do that for free, just wanting

1:19:54.560 --> 1:19:56.519
<v Speaker 2>to do our surveys. And we do it all the time.

1:19:56.680 --> 1:19:59.000
<v Speaker 2>We did our universities. We did it and it was

1:19:59.040 --> 1:20:00.960
<v Speaker 2>just for free all the time. Yeah, together, and it's

1:20:01.000 --> 1:20:04.360
<v Speaker 2>fun looking back, and you know, we still do so

1:20:04.400 --> 1:20:06.599
<v Speaker 2>many things for the community and yeah, you're and there,

1:20:06.640 --> 1:20:09.519
<v Speaker 2>but it's just so yeah, it's fun. It's fun too,

1:20:09.560 --> 1:20:09.920
<v Speaker 2>came back.

1:20:10.080 --> 1:20:14.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and how to change channel and hold on to

1:20:14.160 --> 1:20:18.360
<v Speaker 1>that same spirit even though the form, you know, the

1:20:18.439 --> 1:20:21.719
<v Speaker 1>vessel of it may change, it may have more kind

1:20:21.720 --> 1:20:25.479
<v Speaker 1>of image of material success, but the intention that yes,

1:20:25.520 --> 1:20:27.080
<v Speaker 1>I want to be there and I want to I

1:20:27.120 --> 1:20:30.360
<v Speaker 1>want to show up with everything that I can give,

1:20:30.520 --> 1:20:33.799
<v Speaker 1>how to kind of yeah, hold on to that. I know.

1:20:33.880 --> 1:20:35.160
<v Speaker 2>There was a magic about those times.

1:20:35.240 --> 1:20:39.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I remember doing these meditation sessions at Soas University.

1:20:39.840 --> 1:20:44.519
<v Speaker 1>Remember running from the tube station across Russell Square and

1:20:44.560 --> 1:20:46.800
<v Speaker 1>it would be like three students would be there and

1:20:46.880 --> 1:20:52.280
<v Speaker 1>we do that for an hour. But yeah, there's precious times.

1:20:52.320 --> 1:20:57.040
<v Speaker 1>Anytime you get those kind of opportunities, I think so yeah, absolutely.

1:20:56.640 --> 1:20:57.479
<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you so much.

1:20:57.520 --> 1:20:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Thank you.

1:20:59.000 --> 1:21:02.000
<v Speaker 2>If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with

1:21:02.120 --> 1:21:05.320
<v Speaker 2>doctor Daniel Ahman on how to change your life by

1:21:05.400 --> 1:21:06.280
<v Speaker 2>changing your brain.

1:21:06.720 --> 1:21:11.680
<v Speaker 3>If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with

1:21:11.760 --> 1:21:12.559
<v Speaker 3>a healthy brain.

1:21:12.760 --> 1:21:12.960
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1:21:13.000 --> 1:21:17.040
<v Speaker 3>I've had the blessing or the curse to scan over

1:21:17.080 --> 1:21:21.559
<v Speaker 3>a thousand convicted felons and over one hundred murderers, and

1:21:21.600 --> 1:21:23.439
<v Speaker 3>their brains are very damaged.