Speaker 1: There's so many different ways that people pray. For some
Speaker 1: people it's very spontaneous. Some people have a very ritualized
Speaker 1: way of placing their body in a certain position or
Speaker 1: doing certain actions. I think all of those things are
Speaker 1: designed to bring us into a certain state of mind
Speaker 1: and of being that allows can allow you to express
Speaker 1: some of these deepest sentiments that are otherwise quite hard
Speaker 1: to access.
Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you
Speaker 2: come to become the happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's
Speaker 2: guest is one of my dearest friends of the last
Speaker 2: twenty years. But she's also one of the most talented musicians.
Speaker 2: She uses music not just to entertain, but to heal.
Speaker 2: Joanavi is a devotional singer, writer, and artist whose voice
Speaker 2: has become a refuge for people searching for peace and
Speaker 2: spiritual grounding. Through her performances, recordings, and global workshops, Joanavi
Speaker 2: has devoted her life life to helping people experience the
Speaker 2: power of mantra, meditation and sacred sound. Her work invites
Speaker 2: us to pause, breathe, and reconnect with our inner life,
Speaker 2: and she's also been nominated for her very first Grammy.
Speaker 2: If you're part of the Academy. This is my personal request,
Speaker 2: go and vote for her. I'm so excited to welcome
Speaker 2: to Omburburse my dear friend, Janavi Harrison Janevie. Is so
Speaker 2: wonderful to have you here.
Speaker 1: I just got a massive confidence boost you.
Speaker 2: I mean, I just want to let people know. So
Speaker 2: I've known you now for like twenty years, and i
Speaker 2: met you through our temple and Spiritual community in London,
Speaker 2: which is where we first met, and we would have
Speaker 2: both been at college or something like that. And I
Speaker 2: am so fortunate and so excited about this because sometimes
Speaker 2: I post these pictures of me on the on social
Speaker 2: media which are like how it started, how it's going,
Speaker 2: and all of those how it started, so many of
Speaker 2: them were with you. So me and Janavie for everyone
Speaker 2: who doesn't know, what we would do is we would
Speaker 2: do events together where I would speak and Janavie would
Speaker 2: lead Montreal meditation and we would like that was like
Speaker 2: our duo tag team, yeah exactly, and we travel all
Speaker 2: over England. We did events in London, we did events
Speaker 2: in Weymouth, we did events Cambridge, Cambridge, we did events
Speaker 2: in maybe Oxford. We would do events and we've done
Speaker 2: this for years together and that's always what we did.
Speaker 2: It was always our due. And then since I moved
Speaker 2: to La Jehanevie comes to my house every single year
Speaker 2: and we do an event where rather you will organize
Speaker 2: this beautiful gathering of all of our friends and Ghanavie
Speaker 2: will lead a meditation and people are always so moved
Speaker 2: and just it's pretty amazing, Like thinking about being friends
Speaker 2: for twenty years and seeing our relationship has always been
Speaker 2: service based of wanting to give spiritual experiences to others.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, you lived with us during
Speaker 2: the pandemic. I do for a few months, I think. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So I'm really excited because rarely do I get to
Speaker 2: sit with someone that I've known for twenty years on
Speaker 2: the show. Yeah, and I'm so excited you've been nominated
Speaker 2: for a Grammy. It's like thank you when you mentor
Speaker 2: historical occasion for you know, our whole tradition. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: to really see that just how far you've taken spiritual
Speaker 2: montra music to help people, and it's such a How
Speaker 2: does it feel, I mean.
Speaker 1: It's it's a huge honor and like you said, it's
Speaker 1: it feels like an honor, not you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: part of our training. And I think that the spiritual
Speaker 1: tradition that I've grown up in that you know, you
Speaker 1: get an honor and it might have your name attached
Speaker 1: to it, but you think about how many people have
Speaker 1: brought you to that moment, how many hands and hearts
Speaker 1: and minds have all collaborated to you know, whether it's
Speaker 1: creating something or whatever it is. It's such a collective endeavor.
Speaker 1: So I feel honored personally, but feel honored on behalf
Speaker 1: of everybody. And yeah, it's incredible.
Speaker 2: It's amazing. I mean, you've you know what, It's really
Speaker 2: interesting because obviously I've seen you grow and you know,
Speaker 2: you tour the world, you do retreats. You know, you
Speaker 2: made an album with our dear friend Willow, who came
Speaker 2: on the podcast with last time. It's been amazing to watch.
Speaker 2: But I almost this is really exciting for me because
Speaker 2: even when you know someone, when I get to sit
Speaker 2: in the interview with them, I'm always thinking I'm actually
Speaker 2: going to get to know them in a way that
Speaker 2: I don't before. Yeah, So I want to go back
Speaker 2: to your childhood. Yeah, and I want to ask you
Speaker 2: what is a childhood memory that you have that you
Speaker 2: feel defines who you are today or embodies who you
Speaker 2: are today.
Speaker 1: Wow. Well, I know with these kind of things you
Speaker 1: should you're supposed to say the very first thing that
Speaker 1: comes into your head, and I'm seeing myself in a
Speaker 1: field near my house. You know, I grew up outside
Speaker 1: of London, but it's not that far from the city,
Speaker 1: but it's an area that there's a lot of protected
Speaker 1: farmland and stuff, so there's a lot of fields and
Speaker 1: forests and it really feels quite rural. And these fields
Speaker 1: were close to my house, so I used to love
Speaker 1: walking cycling there and just being in nature. And yeah,
Speaker 1: they would rotate the crops and the things that were
Speaker 1: grown in the field, and certain years there would be
Speaker 1: these incredible yellow flowers. Rape seed flowers are sometimes called
Speaker 1: mustard flowers, and you could just kind of walk amongst
Speaker 1: them and be completely engulfed by these yellow flowers, yellow
Speaker 1: as far as I could see. So I don't know
Speaker 1: why that came to my head, but yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: that's something that's defined who I am. Connection to nature
Speaker 1: and just yeah, finding a lot of inspiration in that.
Speaker 2: Do you still spend a lot of time in nature?
Speaker 1: I try to, Yeah, Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2: In Where is it where you are when you go
Speaker 2: back home, because I know you don't live in London. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean for the last you know, almost three years,
Speaker 1: we've been living in the Bay Area, so that's famous
Speaker 1: around the world for the incredible nature. So now we've
Speaker 1: got the redwood trees and you know, the incredible California coast.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we tried to be out in that environment
Speaker 1: as much as possible. But I love to, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I consider myself a bit of a tree nerd, So
Speaker 1: wherever I go in the world, I'm always trying to
Speaker 1: learn about what trees are around. And yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: something that inspires me a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I obviously know your parents. Your dad
Speaker 2: actually was our wedding priest for me and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and so he actually did our wedding ceremony. And I've
Speaker 2: known your parents for two years now as well, and
Speaker 2: they've always been just so wonderful and you know, they're
Speaker 2: so loved by our community. Yeah, and everyone has such
Speaker 2: an affinity for them. Like what what do you think
Speaker 2: each of them gave you growing up that you carry
Speaker 2: with yourself today, Like what quality or a value or
Speaker 2: a belief or even mindset that you think has really
Speaker 2: stayed with you for all these years.
Speaker 1: They're both truth seekers. That's something that I think brought
Speaker 1: them together. I mean they both joined the spiritual community
Speaker 1: for I think around a decade before they got married.
Speaker 1: So they came from their respective religious traditions that they
Speaker 1: were brought up with and even countries. You know, my
Speaker 1: mum's from Canada, and both of them went on a
Speaker 1: personal odyssey of a sort, you know, searching for truth
Speaker 1: and meaning purpose in life. So I think that courage
Speaker 1: to depart from the script that's being given, which I
Speaker 1: know a lot of people had in the you know,
Speaker 1: the sixties seventies, a lot of young people felt emboldened
Speaker 1: to take some unconventional steps. But not only did they
Speaker 1: sort of try that on, but they've committed to that
Speaker 1: life and to deepening I think with every year. And
Speaker 1: to have parents that are, yeah, they're so committed to
Speaker 1: a life of service and devotion and community. I think
Speaker 1: both of them in their own way, my mom's the one.
Speaker 1: I mean, actually, both of them are very people people.
Speaker 1: You know, they know a lot of people, they remember
Speaker 1: people's names, but they really care about people as well.
Speaker 1: I think in our community. If they walk from point
Speaker 1: A to point B, you know, like a five minute walk,
Speaker 1: they'll be stopping constantly with every person and care about
Speaker 1: what's going on in their life at the moment. So
Speaker 1: I think that's something that's made a deep impression on me.
Speaker 1: It's hard to follow in their footsteps, you know, in
Speaker 1: my life, and I guess in the life of all
Speaker 1: of us who have grown up with the Internet and
Speaker 1: social media, we have the ability to be connected to
Speaker 1: so many more peopleeople than ever before, and it's difficult
Speaker 1: to bring that same quality of presence and attention and
Speaker 1: care to all of our interactions. But it's a kind
Speaker 1: of a gold standard that I have in my mind. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so much. It's hard to measure all the things you
Speaker 1: received from your pigeons.
Speaker 2: Did you always know that you wanted to create music?
Speaker 2: Did you always know that?
Speaker 1: I didn't know that I wanted to create music in
Speaker 1: a formal way, but I was always I think I
Speaker 1: was always doing it without consciously realizing that was a thing.
Speaker 1: Like I just when I was home recently, my mom
Speaker 1: had some cassette tapes from that I used to record myself,
Speaker 1: you know, like probably seven, eight, nine years old and
Speaker 1: I had one of those keyboards, Cassio keyboard, and I
Speaker 1: would just put on a drum beat and I would
Speaker 1: just play. I didn't know how to play board, but
Speaker 1: I had total lack of, you know, inhibition. I just
Speaker 1: record myself spontaneously and I would sing a bit, tell
Speaker 1: a story, make up the story as I went along,
Speaker 1: and they were just meant for my sister to hear,
Speaker 1: like bedtime stories and stuff like that. But when I
Speaker 1: listened back, I was like, oh, I guess I was
Speaker 1: kind of making up songs and things like that. But yeah, it.
Speaker 2: Wasn't you any good now when you listen back, Like, no,
Speaker 2: it was embarrassing.
Speaker 1: I was really embarrassing.
Speaker 2: We need to hear them. I need to hear this.
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna I'm going to digitize them just
Speaker 1: so I can listen back and be like, wow, I've
Speaker 1: come a long way. But I mean, I love to sing,
Speaker 1: you know. I grew up surrounded by music. My dad
Speaker 1: and mom both love singing. My dad was really well
Speaker 1: known for his voice, and yeah, we we sung as
Speaker 1: a family together. So I think it was just always
Speaker 1: around me. But I'm you know, quite introverted by nature,
Speaker 1: so I was never like I want to be a singer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you what do you think what's the
Speaker 2: difference for someone who doesn't know, Yeah, what's the difference
Speaker 2: between devotional mantra music yeah, and popular music or music
Speaker 2: in general? Like, how would you differentiate them?
Speaker 1: I think there's a few key differences. One is one
Speaker 1: is the most obvious, which is which is the lyrics
Speaker 1: with with mantra music. Specifically, a mantra is you know,
Speaker 1: a sacred word or phrase, often containing names that refer
Speaker 1: to to the supreme being, and it's repeated, so you know,
Speaker 1: people's first reaction is like often what oh, why is that?
Speaker 1: Why are you saying the same thing over and over again?
Speaker 1: But the idea is that it's a type of purifying
Speaker 1: Like I always think of a washing machine. You know,
Speaker 1: if you had clothes that were really dirty, you put
Speaker 1: them in the washing machine a few times or something
Speaker 1: like that. So it's it's sound vibration that is intended
Speaker 1: to clarify pure orfy the heart and mind. But I
Speaker 1: think the other key difference is the intention of the music.
Speaker 1: So the intention, as often prayer, is to connect, like
Speaker 1: you were saying at the beginning, to that sacred space
Speaker 1: within whereas I think, you know, music can have all
Speaker 1: kinds of intentions. There can be the intention of the
Speaker 1: artists just to express something, just to connect with the listener,
Speaker 1: or just to entertain. I don't mean just in a
Speaker 1: you know, to minimize what that is. But yeah, the
Speaker 1: quality of it is different. You can you can encounter that,
Speaker 1: you can feel it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's I remember when I first got exposed
Speaker 2: to it, it was addictive and intoxicating in a way
Speaker 2: that was something I hadn't experienced before. I remember my
Speaker 2: friends and I would love going out to parties and
Speaker 2: clubs and things like that. And then when I heard
Speaker 2: devotional music for the first time, I was I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: why do I like this? You know? But it felt
Speaker 2: familiar and it felt it felt like it, I don't know,
Speaker 2: connected with a part of me that had been buried
Speaker 2: for some time or or not, you know, not awakened.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it has a really special quality. And now
Speaker 2: obviously years later, it's it's one of my favorite things
Speaker 2: to experience, especially when when you were charing.
Speaker 1: But did you feel that straight away? Do you remember
Speaker 1: if you did it take a while to appreciate it
Speaker 1: or immediately.
Speaker 2: Film on one of the first retreats I went on,
Speaker 2: Like I felt it immediately. It was there was a
Speaker 2: part of it that was just fun because there's so
Speaker 2: much you know, there's dancing, there's like it's yeah, it's
Speaker 2: such a celebration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not always just sitting meditation exactly.
Speaker 2: It's so festive. Yeah, so I think there's a part
Speaker 2: of that. But there were there were certain people and yeah,
Speaker 2: i'll tell you later who specifically, but like, yeah, there
Speaker 2: were just they were just specific. There were definitely experiences
Speaker 2: I had very early on that made me very convinced
Speaker 2: that the practice made sense. And yeah, beautiful and and special.
Speaker 2: But but yeah, how so if you were so you
Speaker 2: were always artistics and you're always playing around, Yeah, talk
Speaker 2: to me about the discovery because so much of our
Speaker 2: community and our audience is always in the pursuit of
Speaker 2: their passion. And obviously you're doing something you love, you're
Speaker 2: doing something that's more niche. You're also doing extremely successfully.
Speaker 2: This is what you do, it's what you offer to
Speaker 2: the world. And I think often we live in a
Speaker 2: world today where we think, oh, if I'm not doing
Speaker 2: something that's really mainstream, and if I'm not doing something
Speaker 2: that has millions of followers and has then I can't
Speaker 2: do it, and then it can't be successful if it
Speaker 2: can't take care of me and my family. And I
Speaker 2: think there are people like yourself and others I know
Speaker 2: that have found something you love that serves other people,
Speaker 2: makes them happy, is able to get nominated for a Grammy.
Speaker 2: Talk to me about the discovery, the early discovery of
Speaker 2: this passion or maybe it's not, maybe it was always
Speaker 2: a passion, but the discovery of mastery of it. What
Speaker 2: did you study at college? What did you think you actually,
Speaker 2: let's go backwards. What did you think you were going
Speaker 2: to be when you were like eleven years old? Because
Speaker 2: we all get asked that question? What did you What
Speaker 2: did you write? I'm intrigued?
Speaker 1: What did I remember? So? I went to school at
Speaker 1: the Temple in the Temple community till I was about
Speaker 1: ten years old, and then I went to you know,
Speaker 1: a bigger regular.
Speaker 2: School and what was that transition?
Speaker 1: Like? That was hard? It was really hard.
Speaker 2: Talked to me about the different So I didn't go
Speaker 2: to a school like that. I only ever went to
Speaker 2: public schools and grammar schools in England, and I ever
Speaker 2: went to school. So talk to me about what that means,
Speaker 2: and then the transition from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the school at the temple. So the place
Speaker 1: where I went to school is called buckdivid unto Manor,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's in many ways an idyllic environment.
Speaker 1: There's you know, it's kind of eighty acres of beautiful
Speaker 1: country land. There's cows there, there's a beautiful lake. It
Speaker 1: was a very special environment to grow up in. The
Speaker 1: school was very small, so we had very individu dual
Speaker 1: attention from the teachers. There was a lot of singing, drama, art,
Speaker 1: you know, in addition to the usual things we studied.
Speaker 1: And also we we would lead the chanting in the
Speaker 1: temple once a week as a whole school.
Speaker 2: So we were doing learning the National curriculum.
Speaker 1: Yes, we were doing the National curriculum, so we're doing
Speaker 1: all the regular subjects, but we would also have time
Speaker 1: where we would study texts like the Bagavat Gita. We
Speaker 1: would learn you know, versus and things even from four
Speaker 1: or five years old. So it's a very unique way
Speaker 1: to grow up. Like for me, it was all I knew,
Speaker 1: but we used to have There would be schools that
Speaker 1: would visit the temple as part of their religious education.
Speaker 1: You know, I think some people might not know. In
Speaker 1: the UK religious education it's compulsory in school, so you
Speaker 1: go out to places of worship and see how, you know,
Speaker 1: how other people live. So we would have these kids
Speaker 1: looking through the window, like pressing their nose against the window,
Speaker 1: looking at us. So we'd be like, we're not we're
Speaker 1: not zoo animals. But they were curious and and we
Speaker 1: also didn't know what their school experience was like. But yeah,
Speaker 1: for me, it was normal, And I didn't realize when
Speaker 1: I went out to you know, a more kind of
Speaker 1: conventional school that most kids don't learn, you know, songs
Speaker 1: in ancient Sanskrit when they're young and talk about death
Speaker 1: and reincarnation from a young age and the soul and
Speaker 1: things like that. You know, it kind of makes you
Speaker 1: a bit weird to other kids. And I also didn't
Speaker 1: have that much exposure to tipop culture, you know, So.
Speaker 2: You only realized that when I transitioned. Yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 2: didn't know that until then.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that there was a bit of a
Speaker 1: rude awakening anyway, tell me about it, Like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I was I was confident in my world, but
Speaker 1: coming out of my world I felt extremely vulnerable. And
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes people say, oh, when did you give
Speaker 1: yourself the name Jenevie. I'm like, no, I was given
Speaker 1: the same when I was born, you know, and I
Speaker 1: chose to keep that as my name when I went
Speaker 1: to regular school. So then anyone who has an unusual
Speaker 1: name knows the embarrassment of, like the teacher pausing when
Speaker 1: they get to your name, and the kids all laugh
Speaker 1: or whatever. Those things kind of things are. Even being
Speaker 1: vegetarian at that time was quite unusual. I think it's
Speaker 1: much more common now. I just wanted to disappear. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be comment worthy in any way. And yeah,
Speaker 1: that was really hard because I was trying to erase.
Speaker 1: I was trying to erase myself in a way so
Speaker 1: that no one would have anything to say or make
Speaker 1: fun of.
Speaker 2: Because you were coming with a different name, a different culture.
Speaker 1: Different name. Yeah, why do you have white skin? But
Speaker 1: you say you're Hindu? Your name is weird, We just
Speaker 1: call you something else. Why do you eat that? You
Speaker 1: know it's They're pretty innocuous questions in one sense, but
Speaker 1: kids can everyone knows kids can be really mean as well.
Speaker 1: I didn't even grow up, you know, with that, Like,
Speaker 1: I didn't grow up around that many kids, so suddenly
Speaker 1: being in a class of thirty kids, it can be
Speaker 1: quite a sensory overload also if you're sensitive, and it's
Speaker 1: just I think it's about also having the confidence as
Speaker 1: a young person to speak about why did you grow
Speaker 1: up in this way? What are the things that you
Speaker 1: believe in? You know, sometimes you don't kind of have
Speaker 1: that experience till you're a bit older. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: just didn't have the words to describe it, so I'd
Speaker 1: rather become silent. So that was really difficult. I felt
Speaker 1: like I'd been kicked out of the nest, you know,
Speaker 1: the baby bird kicked out of the nest, and I
Speaker 1: couldn't get back to the nest. Because you change through
Speaker 1: those difficult experiences, you're no longer. I remember I did
Speaker 1: wear a school uniform at the Temple school, but it
Speaker 1: was a different kind of school uniform when I went
Speaker 1: to the other schools. And I remember my parents were saying, oh,
Speaker 1: why don't you come. You know that there's a worship
Speaker 1: service at the temple every morning, and they were saying,
Speaker 1: why don't we go before school? You can go in
Speaker 1: the temple, And I was like, well, I'll have to
Speaker 1: wear my uniform and they were like, that's okay. You
Speaker 1: can just come in your uniform and come for you know,
Speaker 1: ten minutes, then we'll go to school. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I can't, And I said why can't you? And I
Speaker 1: was trying to describe it, but I was trying to
Speaker 1: say that when I put that uniform on, I have
Speaker 1: to become someone else. Can't. It's almost like I felt
Speaker 1: like I would implode or something if I tried to
Speaker 1: be that person at the temple. It was just like
Speaker 1: two different masks I had to wear, or characters roles
Speaker 1: that I was playing. So learning how to integrate and
Speaker 1: just be yourself in all environments that was a real journey.
Speaker 2: Going back into the world of work was a culture shop, yeah,
Speaker 2: and it was very, very different. It was almost easier
Speaker 2: to go into the monastery than it was to get out,
Speaker 2: because getting out felt like, wait a minute, I've been
Speaker 2: practicing all these things for three years. Yeah, now I
Speaker 2: have to go to a wine and pizza tasting networking
Speaker 2: event and I don't drink, and there's certain things that
Speaker 2: don't eat anymore and things like that, and just having
Speaker 2: to adjust and so it's embarrassing. It it's hard. And
Speaker 2: I did that as an adult, so to me, it
Speaker 2: was hard, but it was so much easier. It was
Speaker 2: somewhat easier. Yeah, but to do that as a teenager, it's, like,
Speaker 2: you know, is super hard? Did it? What actually helped
Speaker 2: to integrate? How did you integrate these two seemingly opposite
Speaker 2: lives that seemed to contradict themselves. What did you do
Speaker 2: to integrate? What did that look like?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think in my school the school school years,
Speaker 1: like you know, till eighteen or so, I just really struggled.
Speaker 1: It kind of felt like a dark tunnel those years,
Speaker 1: because not not that every day was dark, but it
Speaker 1: just I just didn't feel like I could find that
Speaker 1: confidence and that self assurance to feel yeah, grounded in
Speaker 1: who I am. And I kind of went back and
Speaker 1: forth in and out of you know, I'd go to
Speaker 1: a regular school for a year, and then I would actually,
Speaker 1: I mean several times I kind of made myself sick
Speaker 1: actually with anxiety. I started developing stomach issues and I
Speaker 1: get headaches every single day. I wouldn't eat at school.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't, you know, I'd just save my lunch and
Speaker 1: eat it on the bus on the way home, just
Speaker 1: like all these behaviors that were not I don't know
Speaker 1: why I was doing those things. So then I'd tell
Speaker 1: my parents, Okay, I want to do like homeschooling for
Speaker 1: a while, and I'd do that. But then you know,
Speaker 1: I could tell myself that I have It's not like
Speaker 1: I'm like super academic, but I need to be stretched
Speaker 1: a bit. Like when you're in that comfort zone of home,
Speaker 1: or you're just with friends or your parents telling you
Speaker 1: to do things you don't, you don't always push yourself.
Speaker 1: So I would kind of yearn for that environment again
Speaker 1: and go back into it and then feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't think I can do this. And I think
Speaker 1: things really change when I started to feel like I
Speaker 1: could take agency for myself and start to take have
Speaker 1: a bit more confidence in choosing the direction of my education,
Speaker 1: which I think maybe for many people comes around university
Speaker 1: and you're kind of starting to hone in on you
Speaker 1: know what you want to do. But I was going
Speaker 1: to say, you were saying, you know, when you were eleven,
Speaker 1: what did you want to do with your life? And
Speaker 1: I remember sitting on the school bus and writing. I
Speaker 1: remember like three long lists on the page, and they
Speaker 1: were just all these different artistic things, and I would
Speaker 1: keep going back to the list, and every time I
Speaker 1: would learn something more about each of those creative careers,
Speaker 1: I might cross one off and it was like florist
Speaker 1: and special effects makeup artists. And my dad would sometimes
Speaker 1: take me to like, do you know work shadowing with
Speaker 1: different people, just to just to try and see what
Speaker 1: it was all about. But yeah, I had no idea
Speaker 1: where my journey.
Speaker 2: Would Did you have a narrow down to one or no?
Speaker 1: No, I never know.
Speaker 2: That's so funny.
Speaker 1: I'm still working on that.
Speaker 2: Was it hard to go from secondary school or high
Speaker 2: school to college, like to university? Was that hard that transition?
Speaker 2: Or was university not that hard?
Speaker 1: That was easier? That was easier because by that time,
Speaker 1: I think I'd developed some confidence. I did my A
Speaker 1: levels very unconventionally through evening classes, which I was with
Speaker 1: older people that I found easier to be around, because
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just think I'd also grown up
Speaker 1: around a lot of older people, and I found I
Speaker 1: did really well doing studying int dependently a lot, and
Speaker 1: so I think that gave me a lot of confidence,
Speaker 1: like choosing how I was going to study. You know,
Speaker 1: then I finished the A levels in a year instead
Speaker 1: of two years. It's like a different way of approaching it.
Speaker 1: And then I started to feel like, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: I just yeah, felt different in myself. I mean, you
Speaker 1: grow up, so I think university college also people are
Speaker 1: a lot more open minded. I found. You start realizing
Speaker 1: that it can be cool to be different rather than
Speaker 1: just something to be made fun of.
Speaker 2: Want to make a real difference this giving season this
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Speaker 2: dot org, forward slash on Purpose. Did you have any
Speaker 2: wisdom from the spiritual traditional community that you carried through
Speaker 2: with you that helped you through those tough times or
Speaker 2: do you feel it was You're trying to keep it
Speaker 2: out so much that it didn't really even have a chance.
Speaker 2: Like I really felt that when I went back into
Speaker 2: the world of work, the thing that I held on
Speaker 2: to the most that really changed my life. I genuinely
Speaker 2: mean it was the diverse that says, when you protect
Speaker 2: your purpose, your purpose protects you. And I'm translating dharma's
Speaker 2: purpose in that regard that originally is when you protect
Speaker 2: your dharma, your dharma protects you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And when I heard that verse, that was just profound
Speaker 2: to me, and I started to want to protect what
Speaker 2: I believed my dharma was rather than neglect it and
Speaker 2: reject it to move toward what the world was trying
Speaker 2: to get me to focus on. Yeah, And that acted
Speaker 2: as a real compass for me when I was feeling unsure.
Speaker 2: Was there anything for you I'm just intrigued or was
Speaker 2: it so like you were like this is so alien,
Speaker 2: I have to keep it separate that you were just
Speaker 2: trying to avoid it.
Speaker 1: That's such a great question. I don't think I've thought
Speaker 1: about it in that way before. I don't remember actually
Speaker 1: taking strength from the spiritual tradition like independently. I think
Speaker 1: my parents would try to help me with that, and
Speaker 1: I know for sure, I think on an emotional level,
Speaker 1: my mum was trying to care for me in every
Speaker 1: way possible. I mean, I really gave my parents a
Speaker 1: hard time. I'm also the eldest, so I was the
Speaker 1: first of the children to go out to school, and
Speaker 1: what do.
Speaker 2: You mean to give them a hard time?
Speaker 1: I would cry every day I beg not to go
Speaker 1: to school. I think they were just you know, parents
Speaker 1: are just trying to do the best for you. They
Speaker 1: wanted me to have opportunity, They wanted me to grow intellectually,
Speaker 1: to you know, to do well in studies and everything.
Speaker 1: And I think they were really confused about, like, how
Speaker 1: can we make her be happy and just embrace this
Speaker 1: with confidence and not just be kind of yeah, stressed
Speaker 1: and anxious all the time. So yeah, I feel really
Speaker 1: sorry for what, you know, putting them through that. But
Speaker 1: they were definitely really trying to help. Also from a
Speaker 1: spiritual perspective always, and you know, in simple and digestible ways.
Speaker 1: But I think, yeah, it was it was difficult for
Speaker 1: me to really integrate that at the time.
Speaker 2: Did you so many kids who grew up in religious
Speaker 2: and spiritual communities end up leaving did you ever consider.
Speaker 1: It, not at the time, not at the time, And
Speaker 1: people would always ask me that, and I would It
Speaker 1: was like a very common question, especially from people outside
Speaker 1: of the tradition. They'd always be like, so, did you
Speaker 1: ever want to just rebel and just sleep? And I
Speaker 1: would always very confidently say no, No, I never really
Speaker 1: had that inclination. One of the reasons I think with
Speaker 1: that is that my parents have been always very broad minded,
Speaker 1: very open to talking about anything, and I would have
Speaker 1: a lot of conversations, especially with my dad, about any
Speaker 1: you know, any theological questions, philosophical things, doubts that would
Speaker 1: come to my mind. We would always talk about it.
Speaker 1: And he's very well read, very extensively in many different traditions,
Speaker 1: so he'll always have some great insight to offer. So
Speaker 1: I didn't feel that pull. But I think what I
Speaker 1: didn't know was that, you know, doubt and crisis of
Speaker 1: faith or looking at your tradition from a different lens,
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily always happen in those normative teen times.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it can come later on, or sometimes comes multiple
Speaker 1: times through your life. So it's not that I ever
Speaker 1: felt the strong urge to leave, but I definitely went
Speaker 1: through some difficult times at a later phase, I think
Speaker 1: when I really started to Yeah, it's almost like with
Speaker 1: every step further out into the wider world, it kind
Speaker 1: of demands of me to go deeper in what I
Speaker 1: practice and believe because it's being kind of butted up
Speaker 1: against just these intense currents of everything that's going on
Speaker 1: in the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I often think about that because you know, and
Speaker 2: Radi and I talk about like thinking about having children
Speaker 2: or whatever it is, and like how we want to
Speaker 2: raise them where they have good spiritual values, but at
Speaker 2: the same time they have choice. Yeah, and it's always
Speaker 2: hard because you're kind of like I always think. I
Speaker 2: always believe that people who choose what they follow, and
Speaker 2: someone who's grown up in a tradition also gets that
Speaker 2: opportunity as they get older to keep choosing. And I
Speaker 2: also feel like when you choose what you follow, it
Speaker 2: you're more confident about it, it generally has more power
Speaker 2: generally speaking. But when you're raised in something, you have
Speaker 2: to choose as you get older, because you choose whether
Speaker 2: this value is still yours. And the interesting thing about
Speaker 2: that is that also just applies to anyone who grew
Speaker 2: up in the normal system because you grow up with
Speaker 2: certain beliefs your parents have, and at one point you
Speaker 2: pause and you go, wait, do I even believe exactly? So,
Speaker 2: your parents might have believed that you shouldn't work that hard,
Speaker 2: or you should marry a man who works hard, or
Speaker 2: your parents may have had the belief that you should
Speaker 2: always do what you love, or you should never do
Speaker 2: what you love. You should do what is safe and
Speaker 2: is reliable. And I think we all go through our
Speaker 2: twenties and thirties and have reflection points where we say, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: my parents believe that, but I didn't. And so it
Speaker 2: applies to all of life, but obviously, very specifically a
Speaker 2: lines to someone who's grown up in a specific tradition,
Speaker 2: in a specific path. When did music go from being passion, exploration,
Speaker 2: curiosity to mastery? Because I think this is such an
Speaker 2: important part. I think I hear a lot of people
Speaker 2: who say, follow your passion, and I think that's okay,
Speaker 2: you know, but if you're going to turn it into
Speaker 2: something you do professionally, the passion at one point has
Speaker 2: to turn in to proficiency and mastery. When did you
Speaker 2: start to actually master your art and craft? What did
Speaker 2: that look like?
Speaker 1: I don't identify with the word master in any way.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean that in a falsely humble way.
Speaker 1: I just yeah, I feel like I'm very much scratching
Speaker 1: the surface. But I think that I think that it
Speaker 1: happened very organically. I started to, you know, when I
Speaker 1: was eighteen, I started to develop more of an independent
Speaker 1: interest in art in my own tradition and really engage
Speaker 1: with the muntor meditation practice kirtan. And also, you know,
Speaker 1: I'd been studying the violin since I was about ten
Speaker 1: years old, and that was always something I did basically
Speaker 1: in my bedroom and in my room with the teacher.
Speaker 1: I never really used my instrument in a public placed.
Speaker 1: I did one time one day in an orchestra and
Speaker 1: I got bullied and then I was like, I'm not
Speaker 1: going back. So it was very like I got to
Speaker 1: a point and I was like, why am I even
Speaker 1: learning this instrument. So it was only when I started
Speaker 1: playing it at the temple in the kirtan and trying
Speaker 1: to improvise, I realized that, you know, aside from just
Speaker 1: participating in this activity musically, there's something I can offer,
Speaker 1: something I can develop and refine. And initially that was
Speaker 1: my connection through the violin. That was my voice, you know,
Speaker 1: I was too shy to sing. But I think everything
Speaker 1: actually stemmed from there because through the violin, I ended
Speaker 1: up joining a montra music group that was forming at
Speaker 1: the time, right as I was finishing my undergraduate degree
Speaker 1: and I did not know what was I was going
Speaker 1: to do next. You know, I studied English and creative
Speaker 1: writing linguistics. It was like very interesting to me, but
Speaker 1: I had no idea what to do with it. And
Speaker 1: this opportunity came like a month before my graduation to
Speaker 1: tour all over America and all around the world. It
Speaker 1: ended up being so I was just it was a
Speaker 1: no brainer. I was like, yeah, I want to do that,
Speaker 1: and I thought that it would just be I still
Speaker 1: felt like, well, I'll have to get a regular job.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what that was. I actually then I
Speaker 1: did get a job as a magazine editor.
Speaker 2: But I.
Speaker 1: Got the job and then write when I was meant
Speaker 1: to go back and take it, I was doing this
Speaker 1: touring beforehand, and then I just wrote to them. I said,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I can't. I think I need to keep
Speaker 1: doing what I'm doing. It was, yeah, speaking to my soul.
Speaker 1: I guess so it's been very organic. I think I
Speaker 1: have struggled with a lot of doubt along the way,
Speaker 1: because anyone who does anything creative or artistic knows there's
Speaker 1: no assurance of any kind of ability to maintain yourself
Speaker 1: have a livelihood with that activity. And so it's a
Speaker 1: real act of I think faith and courage to sort
Speaker 1: of just keep going with it a year upon year.
Speaker 1: And so I was many times constantly questioning myself, Okay,
Speaker 1: so is now the point when I should get a
Speaker 1: quote unquote regular job or something that's more predictable and stable.
Speaker 2: Do you think you experience divinity when you sing and
Speaker 2: make music in a way that you don't access through
Speaker 2: any other practice.
Speaker 1: I would say, yes, yeah, I do. I think it's
Speaker 1: an incredibly deep idea that you can access divinity through sound,
Speaker 1: sound being so subtle, not requiring any instrument, any tool,
Speaker 1: just your own voice, and it just requires presence and
Speaker 1: it's very esoteric, but I feel like anyone can experience
Speaker 1: it also, like we have ears to hear, you know,
Speaker 1: a voice to use. And yeah, I remember first starting
Speaker 1: to become aware of that around I mean, I had
Speaker 1: many incredible moments when I was a child, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes people ask me what some of my earliest memories
Speaker 1: of kirtane, And there's so many incredible times, Like there
Speaker 1: was a festival that would happen every year. We would
Speaker 1: walk in procession through London to this huge park, Battersea Park,
Speaker 1: and there would be a festival, many tents there till
Speaker 1: late at night and the kirtan would be going all
Speaker 1: afternoon into the evening. And I just remember feeling so joyful,
Speaker 1: so exhausted, but like so filled by that experience. I
Speaker 1: think I started to really notice that, Wow, there's something
Speaker 1: really special here around sixteen seventeen eighteen and feel like
Speaker 1: I want to come back to this. You know how
Speaker 1: you feel when you I guess there's so many things
Speaker 1: you could liken that too, but you just, yeah, you
Speaker 1: want to keep doing it.
Speaker 2: What have you found when people are because I think
Speaker 2: singing out loud can feel so nervous for people because
Speaker 2: it's this call and response where you're chanting and people
Speaker 2: are responding back, especially when you're live. Yeah, what have
Speaker 2: you seen like the transformation people have had where they
Speaker 2: start off because you do retreats, et cetera, where they
Speaker 2: start really nervous and anxious and then what have you
Speaker 2: seen that turn into Even for people who think like
Speaker 2: I can't sing to say my life, or you don't
Speaker 2: like the sound of your voice or whatever it may
Speaker 2: be my singing voice. I'm very confident speaking.
Speaker 1: But I've heard you saying I think, yeah, it's terrible.
Speaker 1: Now I think you can say now I know you're
Speaker 1: lying for sure.
Speaker 2: Now I have proved that last night right now we
Speaker 2: were talking about that thing. You were lying. But what yeah,
Speaker 2: what is that for you?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: What have you seen? I'm intrigued for people, anyone who's
Speaker 2: listening right now. Anyone who's listening right now, I hope
Speaker 2: you're going to go to Spotify or you know, Apple
Speaker 2: and type in Johannavie Harrison and you know, I'm looking.
Speaker 2: You've got like one hundred and thirty four thousand monthly
Speaker 2: listeners right now. And if someone was listening to this
Speaker 2: music or they were going to come and see you live,
Speaker 2: and you'd say, hey, everyone sing along with me, which
Speaker 2: is very common at these events if someone's nervous in
Speaker 2: the beginning or doesn't quite get it. How have you
Speaker 2: seen people transform over time through retreats and events.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's really normal to feel nervous. I
Speaker 1: think many people, or even I would say most people
Speaker 1: have some level of insecurity about singing out loud. I
Speaker 1: think the beautiful thing about it is that you're singing
Speaker 1: with other people, so you're not even there's no demand
Speaker 1: that you even sing really loud. You know, you can
Speaker 1: sing very quietly. But feeling that togetherness, I mean we
Speaker 1: experience we all can experience that if we go to
Speaker 1: a concert or I don't know, a football match, everyone's
Speaker 1: singing the same thing together. It's empowering and it's connecting
Speaker 1: in a way that few things are of that nature.
Speaker 1: So I would even say that, you know, some people,
Speaker 1: some people that lead this type of music are more
Speaker 1: strident or commanding and like, come on, everyone sing, you know.
Speaker 1: I think I, being a more shy nature, I really
Speaker 1: empathize and understand how that feels to feel so nervous.
Speaker 1: So I don't I don't don't expect people to, you know,
Speaker 1: push themselves in a way that feels just too uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: I always tell people if you want to sing internally,
Speaker 1: because you have we have an internal voice as well,
Speaker 1: you can sing back in your heart. I do that
Speaker 1: on the plane if I'm stressed I listen to something
Speaker 1: and then I sing back with my inner voice. But
Speaker 1: it's incredibly freeing, and I've seen people relax and become
Speaker 1: free in a way that they didn't expect by letting
Speaker 1: go and letting their voice out. You know, everything that
Speaker 1: feels uncomfortable initially usually feels you feel a great sense
Speaker 1: of achievement afterwards as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think? What do you think people
Speaker 2: turn to your music for? Like when you're finding people
Speaker 2: discovering your music? Yeah, who are not from the tradition,
Speaker 2: who don't aren't familiar with it? What are they? I mean,
Speaker 2: like you were? You were Rady's I think number one
Speaker 2: artist on Spotify rat this year. What do you think people? Yeah?
Speaker 2: What are people seeking? What have you found?
Speaker 1: I can say what people tell me, which is I
Speaker 1: think people say that they find a sense of peace,
Speaker 1: a sense of shelter and comfort. A lot of people
Speaker 1: tell me that they listen to their music to my
Speaker 1: music in difficult times. You know, so many people say, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I was studying for exams, my parent was unwell,
Speaker 1: someone in my family was dying, or you know, I
Speaker 1: was getting ready to get married, and then I played
Speaker 1: your music on my wedding day as I was coming
Speaker 1: in these kind of transitional and very meaningful moments in life.
Speaker 1: A lot of people talk about playing my music first
Speaker 1: thing in the morning or last thing at night when
Speaker 1: they want to connect to a place of deep prayer
Speaker 1: or a sacred space. Yeah. I think that's what people find.
Speaker 1: And I'm always blown away by people's stories, you know,
Speaker 1: because ultimately you as a person or I speak for myself, like,
Speaker 1: we're so aware of our humanness and our flaws and
Speaker 1: everything that we bring to you know, we bring all
Speaker 1: of it to every endeavor. So it's really incredible for
Speaker 1: me that I can do something that allows someone to
Speaker 1: enter into that space where they feel so deeply connected,
Speaker 1: because I know that that's not it. It's me because
Speaker 1: I'm allowing myself to be used in that way, but
Speaker 1: I know that there's something a lot deeper that's happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Every time, I mean every time I'm in one
Speaker 2: of your sessions, I'm like just to the back, to
Speaker 2: the whole background too.
Speaker 1: I've seen that.
Speaker 2: Like it. It's strange though, because you can't really explain it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's so hard to put into words where you just
Speaker 2: got to be in one I've had like my team
Speaker 2: has come to sessions obviously, we have friends here, have
Speaker 2: come to events home, and it's amazing how you don't
Speaker 2: need to know the language. You don't really you don't
Speaker 2: even need to know to some degree. I know, you
Speaker 2: always explain what it means, but even if someone doesn't
Speaker 2: know what it means, it's it's It's so interesting how
Speaker 2: and sound has that potential. I think, you know, if
Speaker 2: you look at even music right now, like Latin music,
Speaker 2: is you know so global. Yeah, you know you've got
Speaker 2: bad Bunnies, Puerto Rican and that style of music has
Speaker 2: taken over and you've got and that's what's so beautiful
Speaker 2: about music in generalist, it's so beyond language and so
Speaker 2: beyond where you grew up.
Speaker 1: It transmits transmit I really feel.
Speaker 2: It, Yeah, which is which is so special. And I
Speaker 2: definitely feel that in you know, in in Montra music
Speaker 2: in an unexpected way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, although I would say, you know, I've started to
Speaker 1: also experiment with or not experiment, but part of my
Speaker 1: creative journey in the last few years has been to
Speaker 1: to write original songs also and incorporate that into especially
Speaker 1: when I do concerts. You know, I kind of distinguish
Speaker 1: certain settings for certain offerings. I think, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll lead meditation sessions with Kirtan
Speaker 1: in a very traditional sense, and it has a very
Speaker 1: it can have a very intimate feeling, especially if people
Speaker 1: are they know what to do, you know they're ready.
Speaker 1: But in a more maybe I don't know if theatrical
Speaker 1: setting is the right word to use, But in an
Speaker 1: auditorium where there may be people who have never done
Speaker 1: this before, I've started to weave together these traditional chants
Speaker 1: with sometimes original songs in English, because it's not only
Speaker 1: just a tool for making a connection point for someone
Speaker 1: else with a language of prayer, but for me also,
Speaker 1: I've found it to be something that brings a certain
Speaker 1: vulnerability and personalism to which I think in some ways,
Speaker 1: growing up, I would have thought that that was taboo,
Speaker 1: because the practice of Caretena is very much not about
Speaker 1: you putting yourself there. It's really being a vessel, being
Speaker 1: a channel to just give this pure sound. But I
Speaker 1: think that there's some value as well in sharing, yeah,
Speaker 1: a personal a personal prayer, a personal reflection on just
Speaker 1: being someone trying to go through life and be connected
Speaker 1: to truth and faith and beauty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if someone was to start with one of your albums, Yeah,
Speaker 2: where would you like them to start? Like, if someone
Speaker 2: was like, I want to check this out, I don't
Speaker 2: really know much about it, what would you recommend?
Speaker 1: I think if someone's curious in the just mostly the
Speaker 1: traditional songs and mantras. My first album, Like a River
Speaker 1: to the Sea, is a great one. But I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people connect with the album that I
Speaker 1: did with Willow called Rise, and then my recent album
Speaker 1: Into the Forest. I think Rise and Into the Forest
Speaker 1: are similar in that they incorporate both mantras and and
Speaker 1: some original lyrics.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's great if anyone who's starting out there
Speaker 2: journey of wanting to you know, move into devotional music
Speaker 2: and I've never had the experience of it.
Speaker 1: Or they should check out Rady's playlist. So many people
Speaker 1: tell me, oh, I found your music through Raddy. She's
Speaker 1: got a great collection there of also many other wonderful artists.
Speaker 2: I love that love. That's what's a misconception you think
Speaker 2: people have about spiritual people.
Speaker 1: I think people tend to project a lot onto spiritual
Speaker 1: people that they're like, you're so divine and you must
Speaker 1: float around your house all day, you know, spouting like
Speaker 1: wisdom quotes, and.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I do.
Speaker 1: I've seen you in your robes.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think a misconception is that spiritual people don't have doubts,
Speaker 1: don't have material desires, don't make mistakes, or all of
Speaker 1: those things obviously are true, or that spiritual people have
Speaker 1: all the answers. I think to try to pursue a
Speaker 1: life connected to a spiritual core is courageous because there
Speaker 1: is a level of faith that's required where there's not
Speaker 1: always a hard answer, there's very good answers, but you
Speaker 1: also still have to be very open hearted and constantly
Speaker 1: open to learning and surrender, which is very very difficult.
Speaker 2: Yeah, such a great answer, know what I expected, But yes,
Speaker 2: such a great answer. It's a Yeah, everyone's human, and
Speaker 2: everyone's trying, and everyone's failing, and everyone's making mistakes. And
Speaker 2: I think the problem is when you think that a
Speaker 2: spiritual person is perfect, then you don't feel spiritual internally, Yeah,
Speaker 2: because you don't feel like you've reached what other people
Speaker 2: have reached or what you should have reached, and that
Speaker 2: can actually deter you from the path. Yeah, because you think, oh, well,
Speaker 2: I'm not like that. And they have it all together,
Speaker 2: and therefore I must not be spiritual, not realizing that
Speaker 2: we all already are inherently and perfection may be the
Speaker 2: goal and the aspiration, but the journey towards it is
Speaker 2: far more incremental and step by step than it is
Speaker 2: this enlightened day. I think, you know, I think that's
Speaker 2: a misconception. I always think is people always like, what
Speaker 2: was the day you've realized?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: I have not had that came down from the car,
Speaker 2: And it's again it's how media's portrayed it where it
Speaker 2: feels like you have this day of enlightenment. I've had
Speaker 2: really special meditations, I've had really special experiences, but it's
Speaker 2: three steps forward, one step back, two steps forwards, three
Speaker 2: steps forward, you.
Speaker 1: Know, ten steps back. You're like, what am I doing wrong?
Speaker 2: And that's what's meant to be?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I do find that, you know, I encountered
Speaker 1: that the more that I became publicly known for doing
Speaker 1: muntter meditation and devotion sacred music, I would start to
Speaker 1: encounter more and more people coming to me like with
Speaker 1: you know, shining eyes. I could feel and sometimes it's
Speaker 1: very obvious by the words they say that they they
Speaker 1: are for want of a better phrase, putting me on
Speaker 1: a pedestal, or thinking that there's some kind of perfection,
Speaker 1: you know, happening, which I know is not true. And
Speaker 1: I think part of that is, you know, anyone that's
Speaker 1: kind of facilitating us to go into a spiritual practice
Speaker 1: or experience, we may you know, associate that person with
Speaker 1: the feeling and the and the the real, the very
Speaker 1: real experience that we get. But I think, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think as you get older, especially just accepting both your
Speaker 1: own being patient with your own flaws. I've definitely had
Speaker 1: to learn to be very patient with myself because yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, we're blessed to have as well, you know,
Speaker 1: we're blessed to know so many people who truly are
Speaker 1: exemplary in their life and their actions. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I identify without looking at someone thinking, God, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm never going to be I'm never going to be spiritual.
Speaker 2: What's something that you used to believe to be true
Speaker 2: spiritually and now you don't agree with it?
Speaker 1: I think I think growing up in a particular spiritual
Speaker 1: tradition you can have, you're surrounded by constant affirmation and
Speaker 1: validation of that tradition. You know, if you're immersed in
Speaker 1: a community, You're sur surrounded by people who believe in
Speaker 1: that path, in those practices, And I think the more
Speaker 1: that I've grown and encountered people from all different walks
Speaker 1: of life, who've had all different kinds of experiences, I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's so much something that I don't
Speaker 1: believe anymore, but it challenges a lot of things that
Speaker 1: I've heard, things that I've just accepted because everyone around
Speaker 1: me was saying yes, yes, And I really value that.
Speaker 1: I feel that's necessary. But it's not always easy because
Speaker 1: sometimes there's not an easy resolution or answer.
Speaker 3: To.
Speaker 1: Yeah, conflicting worldviews and opinions about things. So that's something
Speaker 1: that I've encountered a lot on my journey. Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: even people that are within the same broad category of
Speaker 1: a religion or a faith tradition, but you know, different
Speaker 1: strands of specific beliefs. There's so much nuance, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I've found it harder to be like this
Speaker 1: is the answer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's I agree. I think it's
Speaker 2: a healthy thing. And it's also the brain just doesn't
Speaker 2: like it. For simplicity's sake. It's just easier for the
Speaker 2: brain to have it set of beliefs and move with
Speaker 2: them even if they're not health And so when you
Speaker 2: allow yourself to be in a paradox, yeah, it's challenging. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's why we avoid it. That's why we prefer
Speaker 2: left or right, or black or white, or binary thinking.
Speaker 2: And so I find that in my own self. I
Speaker 2: try and live it like that. I try and live
Speaker 2: in the middle of the Venn diagram always like trying
Speaker 2: not to be binary. But it's hard because you're it's
Speaker 2: so much easier to pick a place to live and say, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go all in and believe this is
Speaker 2: the truth, or I'm going to refute it. And it's like, well, no,
Speaker 2: there's things that make sense and there's things that don't
Speaker 2: make sense. I was just saying to someone this morning.
Speaker 2: I was like, it's how we've always talked about how
Speaker 2: whether the glass is half full or half empty, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's both, yeah, Like it's always both. Like
Speaker 2: that's just a stupid question because did you see it?
Speaker 1: Could you see it too? Like could one I have
Speaker 1: one lens and.
Speaker 2: The other have the other earlier?
Speaker 1: And it's like both things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and both things are true if a glass is
Speaker 2: half full, it is therefore half empty. Yeah, And so
Speaker 2: therefore the right answer is I see both. And if
Speaker 2: you see both, it means I can fill the glass up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it also means I have more to drink. And
Speaker 2: so this idea of do you see the glass is
Speaker 2: half full of half empty? The answer is both, But
Speaker 2: it's the brain doesn't want that answer. The brain just
Speaker 2: wants to choose one or the others. So we either
Speaker 2: become positive or you know, evangelists of our beliefs, or
Speaker 2: we become negative and pessimists of that belief and we
Speaker 2: don't recognize that most things have lots of good in
Speaker 2: them and lots of things that they could improve and yeah,
Speaker 2: and grow. But it's the brain, for simplicity's sake, prefers
Speaker 2: one or the other.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and sometimes it's hard to feel, you know,
Speaker 1: it's difficult because you also don't want to be Sometimes
Speaker 1: you have to choose a specific direction or you know,
Speaker 1: there is specificity to the choices we make. And sometimes
Speaker 1: you know, for integrity, you need to kind of define things,
Speaker 1: you know, is it this or is it that? But anyway,
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's very context based as well. I find
Speaker 1: but I don't know. I don't know if it's because
Speaker 1: of me also trying to connect with that space, but
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people have told me that,
Speaker 1: you know, there's so many people who have grown up
Speaker 1: in religious environments who have experienced a lot of heavy
Speaker 1: judgment or trauma. Even it seems more common than not sometimes,
Speaker 1: or at least maybe I just encounter people who speak
Speaker 1: about that. And I've felt encouraged that people have said
Speaker 1: when they've come to my events or gatherings that they
Speaker 1: feel it's a safe space to to to be in
Speaker 1: a spiritual space but not have something imposed upon them,
Speaker 1: And I feel happy about that. You know, I want
Speaker 1: to try to hold that tension, and I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's tension, but it's like, you know, walking a
Speaker 1: path of integrity and specificity oneself, but being able to
Speaker 1: create space that feels very inclusive and welcoming for everyone.
Speaker 2: Has there ever been anything that's really difficult that you've
Speaker 2: gone through in life that you feel your faith has
Speaker 2: been integral to moving through.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's been a life event like you know,
Speaker 1: some of the huge things that happen or you know,
Speaker 1: losing a love one, things like that that are often
Speaker 1: the cause of a you know, a deep grief and
Speaker 1: sorrow that you know, it sometimes leads to a spiritual search.
Speaker 1: But I think I have experienced crisis of faith which
Speaker 1: required faith to come out.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which, yeah, it took me by surprise, you know.
Speaker 1: I think the experience, especially if you're used to being
Speaker 1: someone who who, that's something that you do feel sure of,
Speaker 1: and then when it's suddenly not there, it can feel
Speaker 1: like rug is pulled out from under your feet. And
Speaker 1: I felt like I'm not quite sure who I am.
Speaker 1: You know, you're like like like in a coloring book.
Speaker 1: You know, you've got the lines and that's like the
Speaker 1: defined color within the lines. But imagine if the lines
Speaker 1: just disappeared and you're just color, Like who am I?
Speaker 1: Without that? I have experienced that a couple of times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's it's an interesting answer
Speaker 2: because yeah, it's like how I hosted the Variety Faith
Speaker 2: and Spirituality on his last week, and I was talking
Speaker 2: about how the people who are being awarded and honored
Speaker 2: they've showed different types of faith, and I was saying
Speaker 2: it showed having faith, messy faith, losing faith, and that's
Speaker 2: what makes it so real. Where I think faith based
Speaker 2: content or people sometimes have always been shown as one note,
Speaker 2: where like this is who you are, or like this
Speaker 2: is the kind of person you should be. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And now I think we're showing these variegated depictions of
Speaker 2: what faith can look like, it's spirituality can look like,
Speaker 2: and it's just so much more real because relata relatable
Speaker 2: and grounded and accessible and yeah, just truly trying to
Speaker 2: spar because that's what it can look like. And I
Speaker 2: think if anyone is a person of how did faith
Speaker 2: help you rEFInd faith when there was a crisis of faith?
Speaker 1: I think there was a period of time and it
Speaker 1: wasn't that long, but because of the disorientation that I felt,
Speaker 1: it felt a lot longer than it was. I think
Speaker 1: of feeling like the faith had just totally evaporated, and
Speaker 1: you know, it feels like a type of it feels
Speaker 1: like a type of darkness because something that had previously
Speaker 1: given you a lot of light and internal support and
Speaker 1: nourishment just seems to disappear or no, it seems like
Speaker 1: vapor that is was that actually real? And I think
Speaker 1: I think faith almost it felt like it seeped in
Speaker 1: almost like a you know, through a pin hole where
Speaker 1: you get light that just comes through a tiny crack
Speaker 1: and it gradually grows. But initially there had to be
Speaker 1: a speck of faith for me to think that faith
Speaker 1: could even return in a way, I had to be
Speaker 1: open to that. And I found through that experience I
Speaker 1: connected more to prayer spontaneously and personally versus more ritual
Speaker 1: type of worship or a set you know, practice or routine,
Speaker 1: more spontaneously, more expressively in English. And it's funny because
Speaker 1: I grew up, you know, completely steeped in prayer, like
Speaker 1: throughout the day, because that's just the environment I was in.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about the soundscape of my life growing up.
Speaker 1: There was always bells ringing, and you know, in my
Speaker 1: tradition we blow this conch shell. There's these kind of
Speaker 1: spiritual sounds around and ancient Mantra's Sanskrit was a very
Speaker 1: familiar language for me. But what I didn't have confidence
Speaker 1: and ease with was praying in the language that I
Speaker 1: speak and actually being that personal to just be alone
Speaker 1: and speak those words whatever was coming up. And I
Speaker 1: think that was a really transformative experience and time for
Speaker 1: me and actually led to some of the songs that
Speaker 1: I've recorded because eventually I thought, you know, you don't
Speaker 1: always think like that I should record this because it's
Speaker 1: so personal and specific. But I did feel that I
Speaker 1: bet there are others who go through these times or
Speaker 1: who feel these these emotions, who may it may enable
Speaker 1: them to express words that they can't find the words
Speaker 1: to say.
Speaker 2: Do you think we all need to talk to God
Speaker 2: more one?
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was thinking about this ahead of our chat
Speaker 1: because I was thinking about how much you know, in
Speaker 1: the last I don't know if it's the last decade,
Speaker 1: but of course mindfulness is a word that we've heard
Speaker 1: so much. Meditation has become something that is so in
Speaker 1: many ways integrated into you know, it's not that everyone
Speaker 1: does it, but if you say it, no one's going
Speaker 1: to probably look at you funny. You might see people
Speaker 1: doing in an ad or you know. I always remember
Speaker 1: walking into I think it was gap or something, you know,
Speaker 1: on a high street, and there were these mannequins sitting
Speaker 1: like this in the lotus position, and I was like, oh, interesting,
Speaker 1: this is like filtering into just everyday you know, culture
Speaker 1: and fashion. But I was thinking about how meditation can
Speaker 1: bring us into this space of stillness and internal connection.
Speaker 1: But what am I meditating on and the difference between
Speaker 1: just coming to a place of groundedness, stillness, calming the mind,
Speaker 1: and prayer, to me is quite distinct. That's my personal
Speaker 1: take on it. You know, someone may use those terms
Speaker 1: differently and describe it differently, but I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 1: if prayer is not something that you've ever done, or
Speaker 1: even if it is something that's familiar that you did
Speaker 1: grow up with, I feel like, you know, sometimes they
Speaker 1: say I'll just try doing something with your left hand
Speaker 1: or your non dominant hand because it will reveal something
Speaker 1: to you, or you'll feel a different way of looking
Speaker 1: at something and doing something. I think, yeah, it might
Speaker 1: be something that listeners would like to try, you know,
Speaker 1: to either approach it for the first time or approach
Speaker 1: it through a different pathway, like.
Speaker 2: What you've been used to, take a new neural pathway.
Speaker 2: Almost yeah, yeah, why not?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sometimes it sometimes it involves you know, there's
Speaker 1: so many different ways that people pray. For some people
Speaker 1: it's very spontaneous. Some people have a very ritualized way
Speaker 1: of placing their body in a certain position or doing
Speaker 1: certain actions. And I think all of those things are
Speaker 1: designed to bring us into a certain state of mind
Speaker 1: and of being that allows can allow you to express
Speaker 1: some of these deepest, these deepest sentiments that are otherwise
Speaker 1: quite hard to access in a natural way.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. Yeah. I for me, like, I find
Speaker 2: I love talking to God when I'm driving.
Speaker 1: I do that, I do.
Speaker 2: That's my favorite. Yeah.
Speaker 1: In one of the hardest times I experienced, that was
Speaker 1: the time you just reminded me of that. I would
Speaker 1: just talk. Yeah, driving by myself, cry speak sing.
Speaker 2: I find driving to be so therapeutic in a place
Speaker 2: to share streams of Yeah, and I always love it.
Speaker 2: I think it also reminds me of that Bruce Almighty
Speaker 2: scene where he's like asking God for a sign. Yeah,
Speaker 2: God keeps sending him loads of signs and ignoring them,
Speaker 2: and then his car goes off the bridge or whatever
Speaker 2: it is, and I'm like, yeah, I'm always looking around
Speaker 2: for signs, and I'm driving and connecting billboards to God's
Speaker 2: message to me. And it's just like this fun idea
Speaker 2: that that there's some you know, there's some power in
Speaker 2: what I'm reading and seeing. So I love that last
Speaker 2: question before the final five, what's a question you ask
Speaker 2: yourself when you feel lost.
Speaker 1: M Am I connected with my Am I am I
Speaker 1: being of service? Am I actually connected with service in
Speaker 1: this moment.
Speaker 2: Because you believe that if you're connected to service, then
Speaker 2: you'll have found where you belong.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like it's a state of being which
Speaker 1: is protective because it's protective of the experience of being
Speaker 1: totally lost because you're focusing on giving. It's hard being
Speaker 1: embodied human. You know, it's so easy to feel lost
Speaker 1: for so many different reasons. But when you're thinking about
Speaker 1: how you can serve someone else, whatever that may look like,
Speaker 1: I find that that really helps me.
Speaker 2: It's such a great answer, and I could agree more.
Speaker 2: And I think it's I think it's one of the
Speaker 2: biggest losses of modern education and modern space, where everything
Speaker 2: to solve you is all about you and not about
Speaker 2: anyone else. And there's been studies on this too, like
Speaker 2: if you have depression and you help people who have depression,
Speaker 2: your depression goes down. And so even in a really
Speaker 2: difficult state, the active service can still be helpful to yourself.
Speaker 2: What to speak of when things are not that bad? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and Yeah, it's fascinating to me how we always think Oh,
Speaker 2: if I have more than I'll be able to give more.
Speaker 2: But actually, wherever you are just now, you already may
Speaker 2: have a little more than someone else. And if you
Speaker 2: can help and support in whatever way, time, energy, money,
Speaker 2: if that is your way of helping. Yeah, I love
Speaker 2: that answer. It is such a good answer.
Speaker 1: It's something I've been I've been trying to to say
Speaker 1: this this prayer every day and it's it's it's a
Speaker 1: traditional Sanskrit prayer. I won't say all the words, but
Speaker 1: it ends with the phrase das anudas and that means,
Speaker 1: you know, servant of the servant. And it's funny when
Speaker 1: when I when I was growing up, and you know,
Speaker 1: this is one of those things that in a in
Speaker 1: a religious community, a certain thing becomes a way that
Speaker 1: people do things which from the outside can seem a
Speaker 1: bit weird. Yeah, so everybody would sign a letter or
Speaker 1: a message your servant. And I can't remember when it happened,
Speaker 1: but maybe we were visiting some relatives or something. But
Speaker 1: I just saw that through a different lens and I
Speaker 1: thought that must sound so funny because the idea of
Speaker 1: being a servant is not something that we would regard
Speaker 1: very highly, you know, in a sort of like regular world.
Speaker 1: But it's a really profound spiritual idea that to identify
Speaker 1: as a servant as like an essential identity keeps you
Speaker 1: always looking for ways to contribute and give. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I find that really helps me a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, I think if you it's really interesting
Speaker 2: because I think the misconception of that is when we think, oh,
Speaker 2: that means I have to stay small.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or that means I'm going to be exploited.
Speaker 2: Correct, correct, And it's almost like there's been the servant
Speaker 2: leadership movement and even the idea of oh, you could
Speaker 2: be the SEO of a company and see yourself in
Speaker 2: service of others. Yeah, Like it's not based on your
Speaker 2: position in society. It's based on the mood and intention
Speaker 2: that you do that act with. So someone could be
Speaker 2: the coach of the biggest soccer team in the world
Speaker 2: and see themselves as serving their team, and someone can
Speaker 2: be the best player in the world and see themselves
Speaker 2: as serving their team. Or you could be all those
Speaker 2: things and think you're the best thing in the world
Speaker 2: and no one else is important, and so it's got
Speaker 2: nothing to do with your external position. And I think
Speaker 2: the problem we think is, Oh, my external position has
Speaker 2: to match that. Yeah, so therefore I want to be small. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I've got to be small and play small. And it
Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense because.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like to understand. I'd like to to understand
Speaker 1: and grasp that more deeply, because I think I still
Speaker 1: struggle with that. Like you've always, you know, in our friendship,
Speaker 1: You've always encouraged me to embrace what I'm doing and
Speaker 1: be you know, unafraid to to I guess, grow and
Speaker 1: broadcast out what I'm doing, you know, bigger and bigger
Speaker 1: as a service. But it's so difficult when you're you're
Speaker 1: you're more visible or more in a position of leadership
Speaker 1: to continue to kind of, yeah, harmonize that that idea
Speaker 1: that I'm serving, but also have to kind of have
Speaker 1: the things that go along with being more in a
Speaker 1: leadership position. I don't know, for me, I find it challenging.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I don't disagree. I think that the more
Speaker 2: closer you get to your unique service, the less you
Speaker 2: see it as big and small, and the more you
Speaker 2: see it as just yours, and so there is no
Speaker 2: it kind of fades away because it's so clearly what
Speaker 2: you were meant to do that. Then you don't see
Speaker 2: it as big or expansive or small or not. It's
Speaker 2: just is. And therefore I find that people who know
Speaker 2: their purpose and their drama are less envious, and less
Speaker 2: comparative and less all of those things because they just
Speaker 2: found their thing.
Speaker 1: You know, you can't be or do what someone else
Speaker 1: is doing because correct, you know yourself so well and correct,
Speaker 1: and you feel aligned in what you're doing. I guess
Speaker 1: I guess I'm coming to that. I'm coming to that now.
Speaker 1: I think I've finally accepted myself as doing what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: And this is why I an't taken a long time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll got in the universe. Had to nominate you
Speaker 2: for a dammy to get you to understand that.
Speaker 1: I mean, he knows that I need a big push,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it, Janney. This has been so nice
Speaker 2: getting to know you this way. Like I know, we've
Speaker 2: we've had so many conversations. I mean, whenever you're over
Speaker 2: at the house and you come up and will like
Speaker 2: you know, stay up and talk for hours and hours
Speaker 2: and hours. You know, I love having these conversations. But
Speaker 2: I film so glad I get to share you with
Speaker 2: the community. And I know you've been on before a
Speaker 2: few years back. Now that was twenty twenty twenty, was
Speaker 2: it twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: That was in your old place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so amazing to have you back on.
Speaker 1: Thank you. And I'm a fan of the podcast, so
Speaker 1: this is like very cool for me.
Speaker 2: It's awesome to have you here. And we end every episode,
Speaker 2: as you know as a fan of the podcast, with
Speaker 2: a final five.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: These questions have to be answered in one word to
Speaker 2: one sentence maximum Wow, everyone does one sentence and no
Speaker 2: one okay, okay, So Johannavie Harrison, these are your final
Speaker 2: five thank you. Question one, what is the best advice
Speaker 2: you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid?
Speaker 2: He told you that, do you remember.
Speaker 1: I've heard it from many different people, but I think
Speaker 1: my parents' mentors. Yeah, and it's there in the bugger
Speaker 1: with Gita. Don't be afraid, have trust and courage and
Speaker 1: keep walking forward. Yes, purpose yes. Question number two, what
Speaker 1: is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Anything
Speaker 1: related to what will other people think?
Speaker 2: Definitely? Definitely. It's when you say you want to do
Speaker 2: something and goes what will they say? What will Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a good answer.
Speaker 2: Question number three, is there a decision you made that
Speaker 2: didn't make any logical sense but was the right one
Speaker 2: for you?
Speaker 1: The decision I made to on purpose miss a plane
Speaker 1: home to get to take up this job as a
Speaker 1: magazine editor. I've never I'm always like a real rule follower,
Speaker 1: and the fact that I had a flight book is
Speaker 1: and that I intentionally missed it and just said I'm
Speaker 1: going to drop that. That didn't make any sense at
Speaker 1: the time, and the next morning when I woke up,
Speaker 1: I was like, what did I do? But I think
Speaker 1: I was trying to follow a deeper intuition and it
Speaker 1: turned out to lead me to this and many other moments,
Speaker 1: but that it took a long time for me to realize. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had to have confidence in that decision along the way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad you did that question of before,
Speaker 2: what's something that you used to value that you don't
Speaker 2: value anymore.
Speaker 1: I think I used to put a lot more value
Speaker 1: on other people's opinions, and that doesn't mean that I
Speaker 1: don't now, but it's something I've actively worked on because
Speaker 1: I've realized how how damaging it can be to place
Speaker 1: that much weight and concern on what other people are
Speaker 1: thinking and saying I don't know if I could have
Speaker 1: come to that point any earlier. Yeah, part of growing
Speaker 1: up for sure.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's the biggest one. It's it's a weird one.
Speaker 2: You want to It's almost like you want to choose
Speaker 2: which opinions you listen to from which people. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: we all have to listen to someone like yeah, and
Speaker 2: you know, as we talk about in spirituality, there has
Speaker 2: to be some sense of authority and the challenges when
Speaker 2: you give everyone an authority of yeah, and all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, now you listen to everyone with equal You
Speaker 2: listen to everyone with equal attention despite their lack of
Speaker 2: authority or competence or character. Weight to give weight when
Speaker 2: it doesn't have any value. Yeah, that's what I think
Speaker 2: is the issue. We all have to listen to someone,
Speaker 2: but we give too much weight and value to people
Speaker 2: who don't know anything about that or us.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think I used to do that to the extreme,
Speaker 1: probably because of also growing up in an environment where
Speaker 1: you're expected to, you know, respectfully hear from anyone who's
Speaker 1: older than you or you know, knows more than you.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's I'm a work in progress for sure.
Speaker 2: No, I came up with a system whenever I thinks
Speaker 2: like a monk to make it easier because I struggled
Speaker 2: with that so much. Inspiritual circles, for sure, but in general,
Speaker 2: and I came up with something that I call the
Speaker 2: four season, which is character, care, consistency, and competence. And
Speaker 2: so I think about the problem that I have and
Speaker 2: then I figure out who I'm speaking to based on
Speaker 2: one of those four. So if it's a morality question,
Speaker 2: I have to ask the person of high character, because
Speaker 2: if I just ask the person who cares about me,
Speaker 2: they may bend morality in my favor. Or if I
Speaker 2: am worried about my health, I've got to talk to
Speaker 2: the person who cares about me but is also competent,
Speaker 2: whereas the person who might have who might consistently be
Speaker 2: around me, they may not have the best insight and advice.
Speaker 2: Or like, for example, if I talk to my mom,
Speaker 2: she just cares if I've eaten well, but she won't
Speaker 2: give me the best work advice because she'd prefer I
Speaker 2: take care of myself then do something good for work.
Speaker 1: And so do they all four have to be there
Speaker 1: or it's different things for different stuff.
Speaker 2: I believe no one has all four Oh and there
Speaker 2: are different things for different decisions. Yeah, and they just
Speaker 2: care about you. Yeah, so there's advice is skewed, but
Speaker 2: their opinion is also. One of my favorite quotes says,
Speaker 2: don't take directions from someone who's never been to where
Speaker 2: you're going. And we all do that. We all take
Speaker 2: someone's opinion and they've not even been there, they've never
Speaker 2: they've never reached that or achieved that, and we're sitting
Speaker 2: here taking their word as gospel. Yeah, and so yeah,
Speaker 2: those four sees have kind of really helped me.
Speaker 1: That is really helpful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, tough.
Speaker 1: It's tough one to learn because you may have people
Speaker 1: that are very close to you and you assume that
Speaker 1: by intimacy, by the fact that they know you so deeply,
Speaker 1: that they will have all or at least most of those.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's necessarily the case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even even my mom, Like my mom has a
Speaker 2: very good character. She cares about me, she's consistent, but
Speaker 2: she's not competent in every She's competent in some are
Speaker 2: is there some things my mom has great insight on you,
Speaker 2: but she's not competent in every area of my life
Speaker 2: and therefore it's not you know then anyway, all right,
Speaker 2: Fifth and final question. We asked this every guest who's
Speaker 2: ever been on the show. If you could create one
Speaker 2: law that everyone in the world had to follow, what
Speaker 2: would it be.
Speaker 1: I would love everyone to talk to God more. I
Speaker 1: feel like I feel like a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: like a domino effect, a lot of things would shift.
Speaker 1: And I know it sounds like a cliche, but to
Speaker 1: truly have this mood of being in service to others,
Speaker 1: to each other. Imagine if that was like a compulsory
Speaker 1: thing just to be a citizen of the world. I
Speaker 1: think it would be a beautiful world.
Speaker 2: It's a great answer. How do you know if you're
Speaker 2: talking to God or talking to yourself?
Speaker 1: You know it's intention. You might it might look like
Speaker 1: you're talking to yourself, but I think you it's. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's purely about your intention. If you address God, I mean,
Speaker 1: if you are familiar with any spiritual tradition, most most
Speaker 1: will agree that God is everywhere, in everything, everything is
Speaker 1: coming from Him her, and so there's so many different
Speaker 1: ways to do that. And yeah, you can do it
Speaker 1: in your own way, or you can get guidance on
Speaker 1: how to do it. But I think if you've if
Speaker 1: you've not experienced it before, it's just it's it's so
Speaker 1: worth it, and it's not worth it's not worth missing
Speaker 1: out on what you may find through that experience, to
Speaker 1: you know, to kind of leave it aside.
Speaker 2: Everyone. The album is called Into the Forest. Jenevie Harrison
Speaker 2: just got nominated for a Grammy. I'm so excited. I'll
Speaker 2: be the game key. Yeah, the thing has crossed.
Speaker 1: Hoping see you in two months, hoping for the way. Yeah.
Speaker 2: For any of you don't already, please follow Janavi Arrison
Speaker 2: on Instagram. You can subscribe to your music on Spotify
Speaker 2: and listen along to the album she's mentioned today. And Johnavian,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for being such a dear friend,
Speaker 2: for doing this interview, and so proud of you, so
Speaker 2: excited for this really big moment in your amazing career.
Speaker 2: And thank you just you doing something based on service
Speaker 2: and devotion and it being recognized at this level. It's
Speaker 2: so exciting you.
Speaker 1: I want to say thank you to you because you've
Speaker 1: been such an encouraging friend. But also I think so
Speaker 1: many of these very meaningful moments in my journey have
Speaker 1: been somehow connected to you through through serving together, I've
Speaker 1: learned so much and I recognize that a lot of
Speaker 1: significant growth that I've had has been through your encouragement.
Speaker 1: So I really feel that. So I share the Grammy
Speaker 1: nom with you.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and everyone add that to my bio. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: No, it's really a privilege. I'm so grateful to be here.
Speaker 2: No, you're so kind and honestly, it's been such a joy.
Speaker 2: Like it's fun looking back at those pictures of the
Speaker 2: last twenty years.
Speaker 1: Did you mention Weymouth?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, do you know the funny thing about that
Speaker 2: picture is I'm actually sitting behind a pillar, so you
Speaker 2: can't even see me in it. But it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we drove to Weymouth, which I can't remember how father
Speaker 2: is from London.
Speaker 1: I think it was about three hours, three.
Speaker 2: Hours, We stayed the night, We did an event as
Speaker 2: like ten people came.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like, I mean it's a beautiful event.
Speaker 2: It was a beautiful event. But that's the kind of
Speaker 2: you know, it's fun talking about these things because it's
Speaker 2: easy to sit here now and you know, you nominate
Speaker 2: for Grammy and all the rest of it. But it's like, no,
Speaker 2: it's like we used to drive three hours and I
Speaker 2: would do a talk and you would chant and lead
Speaker 2: meditations and we would do that for free, just wanting
Speaker 2: to do our surveys. And we do it all the time.
Speaker 2: We did our universities. We did it and it was
Speaker 2: just for free all the time. Yeah, together, and it's
Speaker 2: fun looking back, and you know, we still do so
Speaker 2: many things for the community and yeah, you're and there,
Speaker 2: but it's just so yeah, it's fun. It's fun too,
Speaker 2: came back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how to change channel and hold on to
Speaker 1: that same spirit even though the form, you know, the
Speaker 1: vessel of it may change, it may have more kind
Speaker 1: of image of material success, but the intention that yes,
Speaker 1: I want to be there and I want to I
Speaker 1: want to show up with everything that I can give,
Speaker 1: how to kind of yeah, hold on to that. I know.
Speaker 2: There was a magic about those times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember doing these meditation sessions at Soas University.
Speaker 1: Remember running from the tube station across Russell Square and
Speaker 1: it would be like three students would be there and
Speaker 1: we do that for an hour. But yeah, there's precious times.
Speaker 1: Anytime you get those kind of opportunities, I think so yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with
Speaker 2: doctor Daniel Ahman on how to change your life by
Speaker 2: changing your brain.
Speaker 3: If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with
Speaker 3: a healthy brain.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I've had the blessing or the curse to scan over
Speaker 3: a thousand convicted felons and over one hundred murderers, and
Speaker 3: their brains are very damaged.