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Speaker 1: There's so many different ways that people pray. For some

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Speaker 1: people it's very spontaneous. Some people have a very ritualized

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Speaker 1: way of placing their body in a certain position or

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Speaker 1: doing certain actions. I think all of those things are

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Speaker 1: designed to bring us into a certain state of mind

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Speaker 1: and of being that allows can allow you to express

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Speaker 1: some of these deepest sentiments that are otherwise quite hard

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Speaker 1: to access.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you

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Speaker 2: come to become the happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's

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Speaker 2: guest is one of my dearest friends of the last

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Speaker 2: twenty years. But she's also one of the most talented musicians.

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Speaker 2: She uses music not just to entertain, but to heal.

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Speaker 2: Joanavi is a devotional singer, writer, and artist whose voice

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Speaker 2: has become a refuge for people searching for peace and

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Speaker 2: spiritual grounding. Through her performances, recordings, and global workshops, Joanavi

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Speaker 2: has devoted her life life to helping people experience the

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Speaker 2: power of mantra, meditation and sacred sound. Her work invites

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Speaker 2: us to pause, breathe, and reconnect with our inner life,

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Speaker 2: and she's also been nominated for her very first Grammy.

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Speaker 2: If you're part of the Academy. This is my personal request,

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Speaker 2: go and vote for her. I'm so excited to welcome

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Speaker 2: to Omburburse my dear friend, Janavi Harrison Janevie. Is so

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Speaker 2: wonderful to have you here.

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Speaker 1: I just got a massive confidence boost you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I just want to let people know. So

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Speaker 2: I've known you now for like twenty years, and i

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Speaker 2: met you through our temple and Spiritual community in London,

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Speaker 2: which is where we first met, and we would have

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Speaker 2: both been at college or something like that. And I

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Speaker 2: am so fortunate and so excited about this because sometimes

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Speaker 2: I post these pictures of me on the on social

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Speaker 2: media which are like how it started, how it's going,

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Speaker 2: and all of those how it started, so many of

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Speaker 2: them were with you. So me and Janavie for everyone

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Speaker 2: who doesn't know, what we would do is we would

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Speaker 2: do events together where I would speak and Janavie would

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Speaker 2: lead Montreal meditation and we would like that was like

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Speaker 2: our duo tag team, yeah exactly, and we travel all

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Speaker 2: over England. We did events in London, we did events

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Speaker 2: in Weymouth, we did events Cambridge, Cambridge, we did events

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Speaker 2: in maybe Oxford. We would do events and we've done

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Speaker 2: this for years together and that's always what we did.

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Speaker 2: It was always our due. And then since I moved

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Speaker 2: to La Jehanevie comes to my house every single year

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Speaker 2: and we do an event where rather you will organize

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Speaker 2: this beautiful gathering of all of our friends and Ghanavie

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Speaker 2: will lead a meditation and people are always so moved

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Speaker 2: and just it's pretty amazing, Like thinking about being friends

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Speaker 2: for twenty years and seeing our relationship has always been

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Speaker 2: service based of wanting to give spiritual experiences to others.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, you lived with us during

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Speaker 2: the pandemic. I do for a few months, I think. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So I'm really excited because rarely do I get to

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Speaker 2: sit with someone that I've known for twenty years on

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Speaker 2: the show. Yeah, and I'm so excited you've been nominated

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Speaker 2: for a Grammy. It's like thank you when you mentor

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Speaker 2: historical occasion for you know, our whole tradition. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: to really see that just how far you've taken spiritual

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Speaker 2: montra music to help people, and it's such a How

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Speaker 2: does it feel, I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a huge honor and like you said, it's

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Speaker 1: it feels like an honor, not you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: part of our training. And I think that the spiritual

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Speaker 1: tradition that I've grown up in that you know, you

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Speaker 1: get an honor and it might have your name attached

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Speaker 1: to it, but you think about how many people have

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Speaker 1: brought you to that moment, how many hands and hearts

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Speaker 1: and minds have all collaborated to you know, whether it's

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Speaker 1: creating something or whatever it is. It's such a collective endeavor.

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Speaker 1: So I feel honored personally, but feel honored on behalf

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Speaker 1: of everybody. And yeah, it's incredible.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing. I mean, you've you know what, It's really

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Speaker 2: interesting because obviously I've seen you grow and you know,

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Speaker 2: you tour the world, you do retreats. You know, you

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Speaker 2: made an album with our dear friend Willow, who came

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Speaker 2: on the podcast with last time. It's been amazing to watch.

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Speaker 2: But I almost this is really exciting for me because

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Speaker 2: even when you know someone, when I get to sit

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Speaker 2: in the interview with them, I'm always thinking I'm actually

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Speaker 2: going to get to know them in a way that

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Speaker 2: I don't before. Yeah, So I want to go back

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Speaker 2: to your childhood. Yeah, and I want to ask you

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Speaker 2: what is a childhood memory that you have that you

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Speaker 2: feel defines who you are today or embodies who you

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Speaker 2: are today.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Well, I know with these kind of things you

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Speaker 1: should you're supposed to say the very first thing that

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Speaker 1: comes into your head, and I'm seeing myself in a

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Speaker 1: field near my house. You know, I grew up outside

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Speaker 1: of London, but it's not that far from the city,

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Speaker 1: but it's an area that there's a lot of protected

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Speaker 1: farmland and stuff, so there's a lot of fields and

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Speaker 1: forests and it really feels quite rural. And these fields

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Speaker 1: were close to my house, so I used to love

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Speaker 1: walking cycling there and just being in nature. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: they would rotate the crops and the things that were

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Speaker 1: grown in the field, and certain years there would be

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Speaker 1: these incredible yellow flowers. Rape seed flowers are sometimes called

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Speaker 1: mustard flowers, and you could just kind of walk amongst

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Speaker 1: them and be completely engulfed by these yellow flowers, yellow

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Speaker 1: as far as I could see. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: why that came to my head, but yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: that's something that's defined who I am. Connection to nature

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Speaker 1: and just yeah, finding a lot of inspiration in that.

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Speaker 2: Do you still spend a lot of time in nature?

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Speaker 1: I try to, Yeah, Yeah, I do.

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Speaker 2: In Where is it where you are when you go

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Speaker 2: back home, because I know you don't live in London. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean for the last you know, almost three years,

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Speaker 1: we've been living in the Bay Area, so that's famous

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Speaker 1: around the world for the incredible nature. So now we've

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Speaker 1: got the redwood trees and you know, the incredible California coast.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we tried to be out in that environment

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Speaker 1: as much as possible. But I love to, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I consider myself a bit of a tree nerd, So

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Speaker 1: wherever I go in the world, I'm always trying to

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Speaker 1: learn about what trees are around. And yeah, it's just

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Speaker 1: something that inspires me a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I obviously know your parents. Your dad

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Speaker 2: actually was our wedding priest for me and yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and so he actually did our wedding ceremony. And I've

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Speaker 2: known your parents for two years now as well, and

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Speaker 2: they've always been just so wonderful and you know, they're

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Speaker 2: so loved by our community. Yeah, and everyone has such

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Speaker 2: an affinity for them. Like what what do you think

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Speaker 2: each of them gave you growing up that you carry

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Speaker 2: with yourself today, Like what quality or a value or

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Speaker 2: a belief or even mindset that you think has really

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Speaker 2: stayed with you for all these years.

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Speaker 1: They're both truth seekers. That's something that I think brought

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Speaker 1: them together. I mean they both joined the spiritual community

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Speaker 1: for I think around a decade before they got married.

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Speaker 1: So they came from their respective religious traditions that they

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Speaker 1: were brought up with and even countries. You know, my

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Speaker 1: mum's from Canada, and both of them went on a

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Speaker 1: personal odyssey of a sort, you know, searching for truth

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Speaker 1: and meaning purpose in life. So I think that courage

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Speaker 1: to depart from the script that's being given, which I

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Speaker 1: know a lot of people had in the you know,

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Speaker 1: the sixties seventies, a lot of young people felt emboldened

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Speaker 1: to take some unconventional steps. But not only did they

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Speaker 1: sort of try that on, but they've committed to that

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Speaker 1: life and to deepening I think with every year. And

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Speaker 1: to have parents that are, yeah, they're so committed to

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Speaker 1: a life of service and devotion and community. I think

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Speaker 1: both of them in their own way, my mom's the one.

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Speaker 1: I mean, actually, both of them are very people people.

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Speaker 1: You know, they know a lot of people, they remember

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Speaker 1: people's names, but they really care about people as well.

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Speaker 1: I think in our community. If they walk from point

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Speaker 1: A to point B, you know, like a five minute walk,

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Speaker 1: they'll be stopping constantly with every person and care about

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Speaker 1: what's going on in their life at the moment. So

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Speaker 1: I think that's something that's made a deep impression on me.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to follow in their footsteps, you know, in

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Speaker 1: my life, and I guess in the life of all

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Speaker 1: of us who have grown up with the Internet and

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Speaker 1: social media, we have the ability to be connected to

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Speaker 1: so many more peopleeople than ever before, and it's difficult

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Speaker 1: to bring that same quality of presence and attention and

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Speaker 1: care to all of our interactions. But it's a kind

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Speaker 1: of a gold standard that I have in my mind. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so much. It's hard to measure all the things you

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Speaker 1: received from your pigeons.

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Speaker 2: Did you always know that you wanted to create music?

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Speaker 2: Did you always know that?

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that I wanted to create music in

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Speaker 1: a formal way, but I was always I think I

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Speaker 1: was always doing it without consciously realizing that was a thing.

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Speaker 1: Like I just when I was home recently, my mom

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Speaker 1: had some cassette tapes from that I used to record myself,

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Speaker 1: you know, like probably seven, eight, nine years old and

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Speaker 1: I had one of those keyboards, Cassio keyboard, and I

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Speaker 1: would just put on a drum beat and I would

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Speaker 1: just play. I didn't know how to play board, but

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Speaker 1: I had total lack of, you know, inhibition. I just

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Speaker 1: record myself spontaneously and I would sing a bit, tell

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Speaker 1: a story, make up the story as I went along,

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Speaker 1: and they were just meant for my sister to hear,

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Speaker 1: like bedtime stories and stuff like that. But when I

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Speaker 1: listened back, I was like, oh, I guess I was

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Speaker 1: kind of making up songs and things like that. But yeah, it.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't you any good now when you listen back, Like, no,

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Speaker 2: it was embarrassing.

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Speaker 1: I was really embarrassing.

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Speaker 2: We need to hear them. I need to hear this.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna I'm going to digitize them just

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Speaker 1: so I can listen back and be like, wow, I've

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Speaker 1: come a long way. But I mean, I love to sing,

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Speaker 1: you know. I grew up surrounded by music. My dad

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Speaker 1: and mom both love singing. My dad was really well

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Speaker 1: known for his voice, and yeah, we we sung as

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Speaker 1: a family together. So I think it was just always

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Speaker 1: around me. But I'm you know, quite introverted by nature,

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Speaker 1: so I was never like I want to be a singer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you what do you think what's the

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Speaker 2: difference for someone who doesn't know, Yeah, what's the difference

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Speaker 2: between devotional mantra music yeah, and popular music or music

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Speaker 2: in general? Like, how would you differentiate them?

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Speaker 1: I think there's a few key differences. One is one

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Speaker 1: is the most obvious, which is which is the lyrics

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Speaker 1: with with mantra music. Specifically, a mantra is you know,

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Speaker 1: a sacred word or phrase, often containing names that refer

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Speaker 1: to to the supreme being, and it's repeated, so you know,

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Speaker 1: people's first reaction is like often what oh, why is that?

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Speaker 1: Why are you saying the same thing over and over again?

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Speaker 1: But the idea is that it's a type of purifying

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Speaker 1: Like I always think of a washing machine. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you had clothes that were really dirty, you put

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Speaker 1: them in the washing machine a few times or something

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Speaker 1: like that. So it's it's sound vibration that is intended

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Speaker 1: to clarify pure orfy the heart and mind. But I

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Speaker 1: think the other key difference is the intention of the music.

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Speaker 1: So the intention, as often prayer, is to connect, like

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Speaker 1: you were saying at the beginning, to that sacred space

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Speaker 1: within whereas I think, you know, music can have all

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Speaker 1: kinds of intentions. There can be the intention of the

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Speaker 1: artists just to express something, just to connect with the listener,

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Speaker 1: or just to entertain. I don't mean just in a

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Speaker 1: you know, to minimize what that is. But yeah, the

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Speaker 1: quality of it is different. You can you can encounter that,

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Speaker 1: you can feel it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's I remember when I first got exposed

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Speaker 2: to it, it was addictive and intoxicating in a way

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Speaker 2: that was something I hadn't experienced before. I remember my

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Speaker 2: friends and I would love going out to parties and

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Speaker 2: clubs and things like that. And then when I heard

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Speaker 2: devotional music for the first time, I was I was like, wait,

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Speaker 2: why do I like this? You know? But it felt

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Speaker 2: familiar and it felt it felt like it, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: connected with a part of me that had been buried

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Speaker 2: for some time or or not, you know, not awakened.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, it has a really special quality. And now

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Speaker 2: obviously years later, it's it's one of my favorite things

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Speaker 2: to experience, especially when when you were charing.

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Speaker 1: But did you feel that straight away? Do you remember

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Speaker 1: if you did it take a while to appreciate it

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Speaker 1: or immediately.

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Speaker 2: Film on one of the first retreats I went on,

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Speaker 2: Like I felt it immediately. It was there was a

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Speaker 2: part of it that was just fun because there's so

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Speaker 2: much you know, there's dancing, there's like it's yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: such a celebration.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not always just sitting meditation exactly.

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Speaker 2: It's so festive. Yeah, so I think there's a part

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Speaker 2: of that. But there were there were certain people and yeah,

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Speaker 2: i'll tell you later who specifically, but like, yeah, there

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Speaker 2: were just they were just specific. There were definitely experiences

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Speaker 2: I had very early on that made me very convinced

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Speaker 2: that the practice made sense. And yeah, beautiful and and special.

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Speaker 2: But but yeah, how so if you were so you

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Speaker 2: were always artistics and you're always playing around, Yeah, talk

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Speaker 2: to me about the discovery because so much of our

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Speaker 2: community and our audience is always in the pursuit of

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Speaker 2: their passion. And obviously you're doing something you love, you're

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Speaker 2: doing something that's more niche. You're also doing extremely successfully.

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Speaker 2: This is what you do, it's what you offer to

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Speaker 2: the world. And I think often we live in a

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Speaker 2: world today where we think, oh, if I'm not doing

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Speaker 2: something that's really mainstream, and if I'm not doing something

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Speaker 2: that has millions of followers and has then I can't

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Speaker 2: do it, and then it can't be successful if it

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Speaker 2: can't take care of me and my family. And I

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Speaker 2: think there are people like yourself and others I know

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Speaker 2: that have found something you love that serves other people,

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Speaker 2: makes them happy, is able to get nominated for a Grammy.

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Speaker 2: Talk to me about the discovery, the early discovery of

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Speaker 2: this passion or maybe it's not, maybe it was always

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Speaker 2: a passion, but the discovery of mastery of it. What

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Speaker 2: did you study at college? What did you think you actually,

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Speaker 2: let's go backwards. What did you think you were going

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Speaker 2: to be when you were like eleven years old? Because

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Speaker 2: we all get asked that question? What did you What

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Speaker 2: did you write? I'm intrigued?

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Speaker 1: What did I remember? So? I went to school at

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Speaker 1: the Temple in the Temple community till I was about

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Speaker 1: ten years old, and then I went to you know,

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Speaker 1: a bigger regular.

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Speaker 2: School and what was that transition?

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Speaker 1: Like? That was hard? It was really hard.

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Speaker 2: Talked to me about the different So I didn't go

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Speaker 2: to a school like that. I only ever went to

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Speaker 2: public schools and grammar schools in England, and I ever

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Speaker 2: went to school. So talk to me about what that means,

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Speaker 2: and then the transition from.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the school at the temple. So the place

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Speaker 1: where I went to school is called buckdivid unto Manor,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's in many ways an idyllic environment.

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Speaker 1: There's you know, it's kind of eighty acres of beautiful

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Speaker 1: country land. There's cows there, there's a beautiful lake. It

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Speaker 1: was a very special environment to grow up in. The

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Speaker 1: school was very small, so we had very individu dual

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Speaker 1: attention from the teachers. There was a lot of singing, drama, art,

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Speaker 1: you know, in addition to the usual things we studied.

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Speaker 1: And also we we would lead the chanting in the

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Speaker 1: temple once a week as a whole school.

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Speaker 2: So we were doing learning the National curriculum.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we were doing the National curriculum, so we're doing

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Speaker 1: all the regular subjects, but we would also have time

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Speaker 1: where we would study texts like the Bagavat Gita. We

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Speaker 1: would learn you know, versus and things even from four

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Speaker 1: or five years old. So it's a very unique way

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Speaker 1: to grow up. Like for me, it was all I knew,

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Speaker 1: but we used to have There would be schools that

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Speaker 1: would visit the temple as part of their religious education.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think some people might not know. In

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Speaker 1: the UK religious education it's compulsory in school, so you

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Speaker 1: go out to places of worship and see how, you know,

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Speaker 1: how other people live. So we would have these kids

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Speaker 1: looking through the window, like pressing their nose against the window,

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Speaker 1: looking at us. So we'd be like, we're not we're

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Speaker 1: not zoo animals. But they were curious and and we

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Speaker 1: also didn't know what their school experience was like. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: for me, it was normal, And I didn't realize when

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Speaker 1: I went out to you know, a more kind of

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Speaker 1: conventional school that most kids don't learn, you know, songs

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Speaker 1: in ancient Sanskrit when they're young and talk about death

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Speaker 1: and reincarnation from a young age and the soul and

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Speaker 1: things like that. You know, it kind of makes you

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Speaker 1: a bit weird to other kids. And I also didn't

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Speaker 1: have that much exposure to tipop culture, you know, So.

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Speaker 2: You only realized that when I transitioned. Yeah, yeah, you

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Speaker 2: didn't know that until then.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that there was a bit of a

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Speaker 1: rude awakening anyway, tell me about it, Like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I was I was confident in my world, but

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Speaker 1: coming out of my world I felt extremely vulnerable. And

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes people say, oh, when did you give

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Speaker 1: yourself the name Jenevie. I'm like, no, I was given

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Speaker 1: the same when I was born, you know, and I

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Speaker 1: chose to keep that as my name when I went

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Speaker 1: to regular school. So then anyone who has an unusual

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Speaker 1: name knows the embarrassment of, like the teacher pausing when

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Speaker 1: they get to your name, and the kids all laugh

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Those things kind of things are. Even being

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Speaker 1: vegetarian at that time was quite unusual. I think it's

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Speaker 1: much more common now. I just wanted to disappear. I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to be comment worthy in any way. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was really hard because I was trying to erase.

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Speaker 1: I was trying to erase myself in a way so

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Speaker 1: that no one would have anything to say or make

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Speaker 1: fun of.

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Speaker 2: Because you were coming with a different name, a different culture.

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Speaker 1: Different name. Yeah, why do you have white skin? But

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Speaker 1: you say you're Hindu? Your name is weird, We just

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Speaker 1: call you something else. Why do you eat that? You

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Speaker 1: know it's They're pretty innocuous questions in one sense, but

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Speaker 1: kids can everyone knows kids can be really mean as well.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even grow up, you know, with that, Like,

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Speaker 1: I didn't grow up around that many kids, so suddenly

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Speaker 1: being in a class of thirty kids, it can be

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Speaker 1: quite a sensory overload also if you're sensitive, and it's

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Speaker 1: just I think it's about also having the confidence as

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Speaker 1: a young person to speak about why did you grow

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Speaker 1: up in this way? What are the things that you

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Speaker 1: believe in? You know, sometimes you don't kind of have

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Speaker 1: that experience till you're a bit older. And yeah, I

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Speaker 1: just didn't have the words to describe it, so I'd

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Speaker 1: rather become silent. So that was really difficult. I felt

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Speaker 1: like I'd been kicked out of the nest, you know,

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Speaker 1: the baby bird kicked out of the nest, and I

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Speaker 1: couldn't get back to the nest. Because you change through

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Speaker 1: those difficult experiences, you're no longer. I remember I did

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Speaker 1: wear a school uniform at the Temple school, but it

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Speaker 1: was a different kind of school uniform when I went

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Speaker 1: to the other schools. And I remember my parents were saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: why don't you come. You know that there's a worship

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Speaker 1: service at the temple every morning, and they were saying,

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Speaker 1: why don't we go before school? You can go in

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Speaker 1: the temple, And I was like, well, I'll have to

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Speaker 1: wear my uniform and they were like, that's okay. You

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Speaker 1: can just come in your uniform and come for you know,

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Speaker 1: ten minutes, then we'll go to school. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I can't, And I said why can't you? And I

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Speaker 1: was trying to describe it, but I was trying to

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Speaker 1: say that when I put that uniform on, I have

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Speaker 1: to become someone else. Can't. It's almost like I felt

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Speaker 1: like I would implode or something if I tried to

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Speaker 1: be that person at the temple. It was just like

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Speaker 1: two different masks I had to wear, or characters roles

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Speaker 1: that I was playing. So learning how to integrate and

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Speaker 1: just be yourself in all environments that was a real journey.

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Speaker 2: Going back into the world of work was a culture shop, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it was very, very different. It was almost easier

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Speaker 2: to go into the monastery than it was to get out,

387
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Speaker 2: because getting out felt like, wait a minute, I've been

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Speaker 2: practicing all these things for three years. Yeah, now I

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Speaker 2: have to go to a wine and pizza tasting networking

390
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Speaker 2: event and I don't drink, and there's certain things that

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Speaker 2: don't eat anymore and things like that, and just having

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Speaker 2: to adjust and so it's embarrassing. It it's hard. And

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Speaker 2: I did that as an adult, so to me, it

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Speaker 2: was hard, but it was so much easier. It was

395
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Speaker 2: somewhat easier. Yeah, but to do that as a teenager, it's, like,

396
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Speaker 2: you know, is super hard? Did it? What actually helped

397
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Speaker 2: to integrate? How did you integrate these two seemingly opposite

398
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Speaker 2: lives that seemed to contradict themselves. What did you do

399
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Speaker 2: to integrate? What did that look like?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I think in my school the school school years,

401
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Speaker 1: like you know, till eighteen or so, I just really struggled.

402
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Speaker 1: It kind of felt like a dark tunnel those years,

403
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Speaker 1: because not not that every day was dark, but it

404
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Speaker 1: just I just didn't feel like I could find that

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Speaker 1: confidence and that self assurance to feel yeah, grounded in

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Speaker 1: who I am. And I kind of went back and

407
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Speaker 1: forth in and out of you know, I'd go to

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Speaker 1: a regular school for a year, and then I would actually,

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Speaker 1: I mean several times I kind of made myself sick

410
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Speaker 1: actually with anxiety. I started developing stomach issues and I

411
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Speaker 1: get headaches every single day. I wouldn't eat at school.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't, you know, I'd just save my lunch and

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Speaker 1: eat it on the bus on the way home, just

414
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Speaker 1: like all these behaviors that were not I don't know

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Speaker 1: why I was doing those things. So then I'd tell

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Speaker 1: my parents, Okay, I want to do like homeschooling for

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Speaker 1: a while, and I'd do that. But then you know,

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Speaker 1: I could tell myself that I have It's not like

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Speaker 1: I'm like super academic, but I need to be stretched

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Speaker 1: a bit. Like when you're in that comfort zone of home,

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Speaker 1: or you're just with friends or your parents telling you

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Speaker 1: to do things you don't, you don't always push yourself.

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Speaker 1: So I would kind of yearn for that environment again

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Speaker 1: and go back into it and then feel like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I can do this. And I think

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Speaker 1: things really change when I started to feel like I

427
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Speaker 1: could take agency for myself and start to take have

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Speaker 1: a bit more confidence in choosing the direction of my education,

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Speaker 1: which I think maybe for many people comes around university

430
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Speaker 1: and you're kind of starting to hone in on you

431
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Speaker 1: know what you want to do. But I was going

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Speaker 1: to say, you were saying, you know, when you were eleven,

433
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: what did you want to do with your life? And

434
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 1: I remember sitting on the school bus and writing. I

435
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 1: remember like three long lists on the page, and they

436
00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: were just all these different artistic things, and I would

437
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: keep going back to the list, and every time I

438
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: would learn something more about each of those creative careers,

439
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: I might cross one off and it was like florist

440
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: and special effects makeup artists. And my dad would sometimes

441
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 1: take me to like, do you know work shadowing with

442
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: different people, just to just to try and see what

443
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: it was all about. But yeah, I had no idea

444
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: where my journey.

445
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 2: Would Did you have a narrow down to one or no?

446
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 1: No, I never know.

447
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 2: That's so funny.

448
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: I'm still working on that.

449
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 2: Was it hard to go from secondary school or high

450
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 2: school to college, like to university? Was that hard that transition?

451
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: Or was university not that hard?

452
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: That was easier? That was easier because by that time,

453
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: I think I'd developed some confidence. I did my A

454
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: levels very unconventionally through evening classes, which I was with

455
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: older people that I found easier to be around, because

456
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just think I'd also grown up

457
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 1: around a lot of older people, and I found I

458
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: did really well doing studying int dependently a lot, and

459
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: so I think that gave me a lot of confidence,

460
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: like choosing how I was going to study. You know,

461
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: then I finished the A levels in a year instead

462
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: of two years. It's like a different way of approaching it.

463
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: And then I started to feel like, okay, you know,

464
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: I just yeah, felt different in myself. I mean, you

465
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: grow up, so I think university college also people are

466
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: a lot more open minded. I found. You start realizing

467
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 1: that it can be cool to be different rather than

468
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 1: just something to be made fun of.

469
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 2: Want to make a real difference this giving season this

470
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 2: December on Purpose is part of Pods Fight Poverty podcast,

471
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 2: teaming up to lift three villages in Rwanda out of

472
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 2: extreme poverty. We're doing it through give Directly, which sends

473
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 2: cash straight to families so they can choose what they

474
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 2: need most. Donate at GiveDirectly dot org, forward slash on purpose.

475
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: First time gifts are matched, doubling your impact. Our goal

476
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 2: is one million dollars by year's end, enough to lift

477
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 2: seven hundred families out of poverty. Join us at GiveDirectly

478
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: dot org, forward slash on Purpose. Did you have any

479
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 2: wisdom from the spiritual traditional community that you carried through

480
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 2: with you that helped you through those tough times or

481
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 2: do you feel it was You're trying to keep it

482
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 2: out so much that it didn't really even have a chance.

483
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 2: Like I really felt that when I went back into

484
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 2: the world of work, the thing that I held on

485
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 2: to the most that really changed my life. I genuinely

486
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 2: mean it was the diverse that says, when you protect

487
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 2: your purpose, your purpose protects you. And I'm translating dharma's

488
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 2: purpose in that regard that originally is when you protect

489
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 2: your dharma, your dharma protects you.

490
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

491
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 2: And when I heard that verse, that was just profound

492
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 2: to me, and I started to want to protect what

493
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 2: I believed my dharma was rather than neglect it and

494
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: reject it to move toward what the world was trying

495
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 2: to get me to focus on. Yeah, And that acted

496
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: as a real compass for me when I was feeling unsure.

497
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: Was there anything for you I'm just intrigued or was

498
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 2: it so like you were like this is so alien,

499
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 2: I have to keep it separate that you were just

500
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 2: trying to avoid it.

501
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: That's such a great question. I don't think I've thought

502
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: about it in that way before. I don't remember actually

503
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: taking strength from the spiritual tradition like independently. I think

504
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: my parents would try to help me with that, and

505
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: I know for sure, I think on an emotional level,

506
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: my mum was trying to care for me in every

507
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: way possible. I mean, I really gave my parents a

508
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,479
Speaker 1: hard time. I'm also the eldest, so I was the

509
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: first of the children to go out to school, and

510
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: what do.

511
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: You mean to give them a hard time?

512
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 1: I would cry every day I beg not to go

513
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: to school. I think they were just you know, parents

514
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: are just trying to do the best for you. They

515
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: wanted me to have opportunity, They wanted me to grow intellectually,

516
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: to you know, to do well in studies and everything.

517
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 1: And I think they were really confused about, like, how

518
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: can we make her be happy and just embrace this

519
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: with confidence and not just be kind of yeah, stressed

520
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: and anxious all the time. So yeah, I feel really

521
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: sorry for what, you know, putting them through that. But

522
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: they were definitely really trying to help. Also from a

523
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: spiritual perspective always, and you know, in simple and digestible ways.

524
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: But I think, yeah, it was it was difficult for

525
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: me to really integrate that at the time.

526
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: Did you so many kids who grew up in religious

527
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: and spiritual communities end up leaving did you ever consider.

528
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: It, not at the time, not at the time, And

529
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,719
Speaker 1: people would always ask me that, and I would It

530
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: was like a very common question, especially from people outside

531
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: of the tradition. They'd always be like, so, did you

532
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: ever want to just rebel and just sleep? And I

533
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: would always very confidently say no, No, I never really

534
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: had that inclination. One of the reasons I think with

535
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: that is that my parents have been always very broad minded,

536
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,479
Speaker 1: very open to talking about anything, and I would have

537
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: a lot of conversations, especially with my dad, about any

538
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: you know, any theological questions, philosophical things, doubts that would

539
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: come to my mind. We would always talk about it.

540
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: And he's very well read, very extensively in many different traditions,

541
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: so he'll always have some great insight to offer. So

542
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: I didn't feel that pull. But I think what I

543
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: didn't know was that, you know, doubt and crisis of

544
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: faith or looking at your tradition from a different lens,

545
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily always happen in those normative teen times.

546
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: Sometimes it can come later on, or sometimes comes multiple

547
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: times through your life. So it's not that I ever

548
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: felt the strong urge to leave, but I definitely went

549
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: through some difficult times at a later phase, I think

550
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: when I really started to Yeah, it's almost like with

551
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: every step further out into the wider world, it kind

552
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: of demands of me to go deeper in what I

553
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: practice and believe because it's being kind of butted up

554
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: against just these intense currents of everything that's going on

555
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: in the world.

556
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I often think about that because you know, and

557
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: Radi and I talk about like thinking about having children

558
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 2: or whatever it is, and like how we want to

559
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: raise them where they have good spiritual values, but at

560
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: the same time they have choice. Yeah, and it's always

561
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 2: hard because you're kind of like I always think. I

562
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: always believe that people who choose what they follow, and

563
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: someone who's grown up in a tradition also gets that

564
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 2: opportunity as they get older to keep choosing. And I

565
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: also feel like when you choose what you follow, it

566
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 2: you're more confident about it, it generally has more power

567
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 2: generally speaking. But when you're raised in something, you have

568
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: to choose as you get older, because you choose whether

569
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 2: this value is still yours. And the interesting thing about

570
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: that is that also just applies to anyone who grew

571
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: up in the normal system because you grow up with

572
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: certain beliefs your parents have, and at one point you

573
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: pause and you go, wait, do I even believe exactly? So,

574
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: your parents might have believed that you shouldn't work that hard,

575
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: or you should marry a man who works hard, or

576
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: your parents may have had the belief that you should

577
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: always do what you love, or you should never do

578
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: what you love. You should do what is safe and

579
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: is reliable. And I think we all go through our

580
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 2: twenties and thirties and have reflection points where we say, well, yeah,

581
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 2: my parents believe that, but I didn't. And so it

582
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: applies to all of life, but obviously, very specifically a

583
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: lines to someone who's grown up in a specific tradition,

584
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: in a specific path. When did music go from being passion, exploration,

585
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: curiosity to mastery? Because I think this is such an

586
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: important part. I think I hear a lot of people

587
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: who say, follow your passion, and I think that's okay,

588
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 2: you know, but if you're going to turn it into

589
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: something you do professionally, the passion at one point has

590
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: to turn in to proficiency and mastery. When did you

591
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: start to actually master your art and craft? What did

592
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: that look like?

593
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: I don't identify with the word master in any way.

594
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: And I don't mean that in a falsely humble way.

595
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: I just yeah, I feel like I'm very much scratching

596
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: the surface. But I think that I think that it

597
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: happened very organically. I started to, you know, when I

598
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: was eighteen, I started to develop more of an independent

599
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: interest in art in my own tradition and really engage

600
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: with the muntor meditation practice kirtan. And also, you know,

601
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: I'd been studying the violin since I was about ten

602
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: years old, and that was always something I did basically

603
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: in my bedroom and in my room with the teacher.

604
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: I never really used my instrument in a public placed.

605
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: I did one time one day in an orchestra and

606
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: I got bullied and then I was like, I'm not

607
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: going back. So it was very like I got to

608
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: a point and I was like, why am I even

609
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: learning this instrument. So it was only when I started

610
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,719
Speaker 1: playing it at the temple in the kirtan and trying

611
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: to improvise, I realized that, you know, aside from just

612
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: participating in this activity musically, there's something I can offer,

613
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: something I can develop and refine. And initially that was

614
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: my connection through the violin. That was my voice, you know,

615
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: I was too shy to sing. But I think everything

616
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: actually stemmed from there because through the violin, I ended

617
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: up joining a montra music group that was forming at

618
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: the time, right as I was finishing my undergraduate degree

619
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: and I did not know what was I was going

620
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: to do next. You know, I studied English and creative

621
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: writing linguistics. It was like very interesting to me, but

622
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: I had no idea what to do with it. And

623
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: this opportunity came like a month before my graduation to

624
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: tour all over America and all around the world. It

625
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: ended up being so I was just it was a

626
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: no brainer. I was like, yeah, I want to do that,

627
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: and I thought that it would just be I still

628
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: felt like, well, I'll have to get a regular job.

629
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: I didn't know what that was. I actually then I

630
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 1: did get a job as a magazine editor.

631
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: But I.

632
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: Got the job and then write when I was meant

633
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: to go back and take it, I was doing this

634
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: touring beforehand, and then I just wrote to them. I said,

635
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I can't. I think I need to keep

636
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: doing what I'm doing. It was, yeah, speaking to my soul.

637
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: I guess so it's been very organic. I think I

638
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 1: have struggled with a lot of doubt along the way,

639
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: because anyone who does anything creative or artistic knows there's

640
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: no assurance of any kind of ability to maintain yourself

641
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: have a livelihood with that activity. And so it's a

642
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: real act of I think faith and courage to sort

643
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: of just keep going with it a year upon year.

644
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: And so I was many times constantly questioning myself, Okay,

645
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: so is now the point when I should get a

646
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: quote unquote regular job or something that's more predictable and stable.

647
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 2: Do you think you experience divinity when you sing and

648
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: make music in a way that you don't access through

649
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 2: any other practice.

650
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: I would say, yes, yeah, I do. I think it's

651
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: an incredibly deep idea that you can access divinity through sound,

652
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 1: sound being so subtle, not requiring any instrument, any tool,

653
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 1: just your own voice, and it just requires presence and

654
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: it's very esoteric, but I feel like anyone can experience

655
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: it also, like we have ears to hear, you know,

656
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: a voice to use. And yeah, I remember first starting

657
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,879
Speaker 1: to become aware of that around I mean, I had

658
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: many incredible moments when I was a child, you know,

659
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 1: sometimes people ask me what some of my earliest memories

660
00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: of kirtane, And there's so many incredible times, Like there

661
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: was a festival that would happen every year. We would

662
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: walk in procession through London to this huge park, Battersea Park,

663
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: and there would be a festival, many tents there till

664
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: late at night and the kirtan would be going all

665
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: afternoon into the evening. And I just remember feeling so joyful,

666
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: so exhausted, but like so filled by that experience. I

667
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: think I started to really notice that, Wow, there's something

668
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: really special here around sixteen seventeen eighteen and feel like

669
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: I want to come back to this. You know how

670
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: you feel when you I guess there's so many things

671
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: you could liken that too, but you just, yeah, you

672
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: want to keep doing it.

673
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 2: What have you found when people are because I think

674
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: singing out loud can feel so nervous for people because

675
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: it's this call and response where you're chanting and people

676
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: are responding back, especially when you're live. Yeah, what have

677
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 2: you seen like the transformation people have had where they

678
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 2: start off because you do retreats, et cetera, where they

679
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 2: start really nervous and anxious and then what have you

680
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: seen that turn into Even for people who think like

681
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 2: I can't sing to say my life, or you don't

682
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 2: like the sound of your voice or whatever it may

683
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 2: be my singing voice. I'm very confident speaking.

684
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: But I've heard you saying I think, yeah, it's terrible.

685
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 1: Now I think you can say now I know you're

686
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: lying for sure.

687
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: Now I have proved that last night right now we

688
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 2: were talking about that thing. You were lying. But what yeah,

689
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 2: what is that for you?

690
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: Like?

691
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: What have you seen? I'm intrigued for people, anyone who's

692
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: listening right now. Anyone who's listening right now, I hope

693
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: you're going to go to Spotify or you know, Apple

694
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 2: and type in Johannavie Harrison and you know, I'm looking.

695
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: You've got like one hundred and thirty four thousand monthly

696
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 2: listeners right now. And if someone was listening to this

697
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 2: music or they were going to come and see you live,

698
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 2: and you'd say, hey, everyone sing along with me, which

699
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 2: is very common at these events if someone's nervous in

700
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 2: the beginning or doesn't quite get it. How have you

701
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: seen people transform over time through retreats and events.

702
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's really normal to feel nervous. I

703
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 1: think many people, or even I would say most people

704
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: have some level of insecurity about singing out loud. I

705
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: think the beautiful thing about it is that you're singing

706
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: with other people, so you're not even there's no demand

707
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: that you even sing really loud. You know, you can

708
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: sing very quietly. But feeling that togetherness, I mean we

709
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: experience we all can experience that if we go to

710
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: a concert or I don't know, a football match, everyone's

711
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: singing the same thing together. It's empowering and it's connecting

712
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 1: in a way that few things are of that nature.

713
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: So I would even say that, you know, some people,

714
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: some people that lead this type of music are more

715
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: strident or commanding and like, come on, everyone sing, you know.

716
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: I think I, being a more shy nature, I really

717
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: empathize and understand how that feels to feel so nervous.

718
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: So I don't I don't don't expect people to, you know,

719
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: push themselves in a way that feels just too uncomfortable.

720
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: I always tell people if you want to sing internally,

721
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: because you have we have an internal voice as well,

722
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: you can sing back in your heart. I do that

723
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 1: on the plane if I'm stressed I listen to something

724
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: and then I sing back with my inner voice. But

725
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: it's incredibly freeing, and I've seen people relax and become

726
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: free in a way that they didn't expect by letting

727
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: go and letting their voice out. You know, everything that

728
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: feels uncomfortable initially usually feels you feel a great sense

729
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: of achievement afterwards as well.

730
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think? What do you think people

731
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: turn to your music for? Like when you're finding people

732
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: discovering your music? Yeah, who are not from the tradition,

733
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 2: who don't aren't familiar with it? What are they? I mean,

734
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: like you were? You were Rady's I think number one

735
00:40:54,640 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 2: artist on Spotify rat this year. What do you think people? Yeah?

736
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 2: What are people seeking? What have you found?

737
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: I can say what people tell me, which is I

738
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: think people say that they find a sense of peace,

739
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: a sense of shelter and comfort. A lot of people

740
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: tell me that they listen to their music to my

741
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: music in difficult times. You know, so many people say, yeah,

742
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: you know, I was studying for exams, my parent was unwell,

743
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: someone in my family was dying, or you know, I

744
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: was getting ready to get married, and then I played

745
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: your music on my wedding day as I was coming

746
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: in these kind of transitional and very meaningful moments in life.

747
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: A lot of people talk about playing my music first

748
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: thing in the morning or last thing at night when

749
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 1: they want to connect to a place of deep prayer

750
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: or a sacred space. Yeah. I think that's what people find.

751
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: And I'm always blown away by people's stories, you know,

752
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: because ultimately you as a person or I speak for myself, like,

753
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: we're so aware of our humanness and our flaws and

754
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: everything that we bring to you know, we bring all

755
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: of it to every endeavor. So it's really incredible for

756
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: me that I can do something that allows someone to

757
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: enter into that space where they feel so deeply connected,

758
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 1: because I know that that's not it. It's me because

759
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: I'm allowing myself to be used in that way, but

760
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: I know that there's something a lot deeper that's happening.

761
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Every time, I mean every time I'm in one

762
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: of your sessions, I'm like just to the back, to

763
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 2: the whole background too.

764
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: I've seen that.

765
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 2: Like it. It's strange though, because you can't really explain it. Yeah,

766
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 2: it's so hard to put into words where you just

767
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: got to be in one I've had like my team

768
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: has come to sessions obviously, we have friends here, have

769
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 2: come to events home, and it's amazing how you don't

770
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 2: need to know the language. You don't really you don't

771
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 2: even need to know to some degree. I know, you

772
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 2: always explain what it means, but even if someone doesn't

773
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: know what it means, it's it's It's so interesting how

774
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 2: and sound has that potential. I think, you know, if

775
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 2: you look at even music right now, like Latin music,

776
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: is you know so global. Yeah, you know you've got

777
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 2: bad Bunnies, Puerto Rican and that style of music has

778
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 2: taken over and you've got and that's what's so beautiful

779
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 2: about music in generalist, it's so beyond language and so

780
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 2: beyond where you grew up.

781
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: It transmits transmit I really feel.

782
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: It, Yeah, which is which is so special. And I

783
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 2: definitely feel that in you know, in in Montra music

784
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 2: in an unexpected way.

785
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, although I would say, you know, I've started to

786
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: also experiment with or not experiment, but part of my

787
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: creative journey in the last few years has been to

788
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: to write original songs also and incorporate that into especially

789
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: when I do concerts. You know, I kind of distinguish

790
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: certain settings for certain offerings. I think, you know, there's

791
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll lead meditation sessions with Kirtan

792
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: in a very traditional sense, and it has a very

793
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 1: it can have a very intimate feeling, especially if people

794
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: are they know what to do, you know they're ready.

795
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: But in a more maybe I don't know if theatrical

796
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: setting is the right word to use, But in an

797
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: auditorium where there may be people who have never done

798
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: this before, I've started to weave together these traditional chants

799
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: with sometimes original songs in English, because it's not only

800
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 1: just a tool for making a connection point for someone

801
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 1: else with a language of prayer, but for me also,

802
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 1: I've found it to be something that brings a certain

803
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: vulnerability and personalism to which I think in some ways,

804
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: growing up, I would have thought that that was taboo,

805
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: because the practice of Caretena is very much not about

806
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: you putting yourself there. It's really being a vessel, being

807
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: a channel to just give this pure sound. But I

808
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 1: think that there's some value as well in sharing, yeah,

809
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: a personal a personal prayer, a personal reflection on just

810
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: being someone trying to go through life and be connected

811
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,720
Speaker 1: to truth and faith and beauty.

812
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, if someone was to start with one of your albums, Yeah,

813
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 2: where would you like them to start? Like, if someone

814
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 2: was like, I want to check this out, I don't

815
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: really know much about it, what would you recommend?

816
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: I think if someone's curious in the just mostly the

817
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: traditional songs and mantras. My first album, Like a River

818
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: to the Sea, is a great one. But I think

819
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: a lot of people connect with the album that I

820
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: did with Willow called Rise, and then my recent album

821
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: Into the Forest. I think Rise and Into the Forest

822
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: are similar in that they incorporate both mantras and and

823
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: some original lyrics.

824
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's great if anyone who's starting out there

825
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: journey of wanting to you know, move into devotional music

826
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 2: and I've never had the experience of it.

827
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: Or they should check out Rady's playlist. So many people

828
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: tell me, oh, I found your music through Raddy. She's

829
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,280
Speaker 1: got a great collection there of also many other wonderful artists.

830
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 2: I love that love. That's what's a misconception you think

831
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 2: people have about spiritual people.

832
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: I think people tend to project a lot onto spiritual

833
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: people that they're like, you're so divine and you must

834
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: float around your house all day, you know, spouting like

835
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: wisdom quotes, and.

836
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I do.

837
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: I've seen you in your robes.

838
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

839
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: I think a misconception is that spiritual people don't have doubts,

840
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: don't have material desires, don't make mistakes, or all of

841
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: those things obviously are true, or that spiritual people have

842
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: all the answers. I think to try to pursue a

843
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: life connected to a spiritual core is courageous because there

844
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: is a level of faith that's required where there's not

845
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: always a hard answer, there's very good answers, but you

846
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: also still have to be very open hearted and constantly

847
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: open to learning and surrender, which is very very difficult.

848
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, such a great answer, know what I expected, But yes,

849
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 2: such a great answer. It's a Yeah, everyone's human, and

850
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 2: everyone's trying, and everyone's failing, and everyone's making mistakes. And

851
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: I think the problem is when you think that a

852
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: spiritual person is perfect, then you don't feel spiritual internally, Yeah,

853
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 2: because you don't feel like you've reached what other people

854
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 2: have reached or what you should have reached, and that

855
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 2: can actually deter you from the path. Yeah, because you think, oh, well,

856
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 2: I'm not like that. And they have it all together,

857
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 2: and therefore I must not be spiritual, not realizing that

858
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 2: we all already are inherently and perfection may be the

859
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 2: goal and the aspiration, but the journey towards it is

860
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 2: far more incremental and step by step than it is

861
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: this enlightened day. I think, you know, I think that's

862
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 2: a misconception. I always think is people always like, what

863
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 2: was the day you've realized?

864
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 3: Right?

865
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 2: I have not had that came down from the car,

866
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: And it's again it's how media's portrayed it where it

867
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: feels like you have this day of enlightenment. I've had

868
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 2: really special meditations, I've had really special experiences, but it's

869
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 2: three steps forward, one step back, two steps forwards, three

870
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 2: steps forward, you.

871
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 1: Know, ten steps back. You're like, what am I doing wrong?

872
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 2: And that's what's meant to be?

873
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I do find that, you know, I encountered

874
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: that the more that I became publicly known for doing

875
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: muntter meditation and devotion sacred music, I would start to

876
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: encounter more and more people coming to me like with

877
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: you know, shining eyes. I could feel and sometimes it's

878
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: very obvious by the words they say that they they

879
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: are for want of a better phrase, putting me on

880
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 1: a pedestal, or thinking that there's some kind of perfection,

881
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: you know, happening, which I know is not true. And

882
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: I think part of that is, you know, anyone that's

883
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: kind of facilitating us to go into a spiritual practice

884
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: or experience, we may you know, associate that person with

885
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 1: the feeling and the and the the real, the very

886
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: real experience that we get. But I think, yeah, I

887
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: think as you get older, especially just accepting both your

888
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 1: own being patient with your own flaws. I've definitely had

889
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: to learn to be very patient with myself because yeah,

890
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: I mean, we're blessed to have as well, you know,

891
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: we're blessed to know so many people who truly are

892
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: exemplary in their life and their actions. And yeah, I

893
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: mean I identify without looking at someone thinking, God, you know,

894
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: I'm never going to be I'm never going to be spiritual.

895
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 2: What's something that you used to believe to be true

896
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 2: spiritually and now you don't agree with it?

897
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 1: I think I think growing up in a particular spiritual

898
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: tradition you can have, you're surrounded by constant affirmation and

899
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: validation of that tradition. You know, if you're immersed in

900
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 1: a community, You're sur surrounded by people who believe in

901
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: that path, in those practices, And I think the more

902
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: that I've grown and encountered people from all different walks

903
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: of life, who've had all different kinds of experiences, I

904
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: don't know if it's so much something that I don't

905
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: believe anymore, but it challenges a lot of things that

906
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 1: I've heard, things that I've just accepted because everyone around

907
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: me was saying yes, yes, And I really value that.

908
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 1: I feel that's necessary. But it's not always easy because

909
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: sometimes there's not an easy resolution or answer.

910
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 3: To.

911
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, conflicting worldviews and opinions about things. So that's something

912
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 1: that I've encountered a lot on my journey. Sometimes it's

913
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: even people that are within the same broad category of

914
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: a religion or a faith tradition, but you know, different

915
00:51:51,960 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: strands of specific beliefs. There's so much nuance, and yeah,

916
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: I think I've found it harder to be like this

917
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:03,760
Speaker 1: is the answer.

918
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's I agree. I think it's

919
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 2: a healthy thing. And it's also the brain just doesn't

920
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 2: like it. For simplicity's sake. It's just easier for the

921
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 2: brain to have it set of beliefs and move with

922
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 2: them even if they're not health And so when you

923
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:26,959
Speaker 2: allow yourself to be in a paradox, yeah, it's challenging. Yeah,

924
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 2: and that's why we avoid it. That's why we prefer

925
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 2: left or right, or black or white, or binary thinking.

926
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 2: And so I find that in my own self. I

927
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 2: try and live it like that. I try and live

928
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 2: in the middle of the Venn diagram always like trying

929
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 2: not to be binary. But it's hard because you're it's

930
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 2: so much easier to pick a place to live and say, yeah,

931
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to go all in and believe this is

932
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 2: the truth, or I'm going to refute it. And it's like, well, no,

933
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 2: there's things that make sense and there's things that don't

934
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 2: make sense. I was just saying to someone this morning.

935
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,720
Speaker 2: I was like, it's how we've always talked about how

936
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 2: whether the glass is half full or half empty, and

937
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's both, yeah, Like it's always both. Like

938
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 2: that's just a stupid question because did you see it?

939
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: Could you see it too? Like could one I have

940
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: one lens and.

941
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 2: The other have the other earlier?

942
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: And it's like both things.

943
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and both things are true if a glass is

944
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 2: half full, it is therefore half empty. Yeah, And so

945
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 2: therefore the right answer is I see both. And if

946
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 2: you see both, it means I can fill the glass up. Yeah,

947
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 2: and it also means I have more to drink. And

948
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 2: so this idea of do you see the glass is

949
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 2: half full of half empty? The answer is both, But

950
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 2: it's the brain doesn't want that answer. The brain just

951
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 2: wants to choose one or the others. So we either

952
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 2: become positive or you know, evangelists of our beliefs, or

953
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 2: we become negative and pessimists of that belief and we

954
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 2: don't recognize that most things have lots of good in

955
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 2: them and lots of things that they could improve and yeah,

956
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 2: and grow. But it's the brain, for simplicity's sake, prefers

957
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 2: one or the other.

958
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 1: And yeah, and sometimes it's hard to feel, you know,

959
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: it's difficult because you also don't want to be Sometimes

960
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: you have to choose a specific direction or you know,

961
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: there is specificity to the choices we make. And sometimes

962
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, for integrity, you need to kind of define things,

963
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,280
Speaker 1: you know, is it this or is it that? But anyway,

964
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's very context based as well. I find

965
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: but I don't know. I don't know if it's because

966
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: of me also trying to connect with that space, but

967
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people have told me that,

968
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: you know, there's so many people who have grown up

969
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: in religious environments who have experienced a lot of heavy

970
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 1: judgment or trauma. Even it seems more common than not sometimes,

971
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: or at least maybe I just encounter people who speak

972
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,359
Speaker 1: about that. And I've felt encouraged that people have said

973
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: when they've come to my events or gatherings that they

974
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: feel it's a safe space to to to be in

975
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: a spiritual space but not have something imposed upon them,

976
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 1: And I feel happy about that. You know, I want

977
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: to try to hold that tension, and I don't know

978
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 1: if it's tension, but it's like, you know, walking a

979
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: path of integrity and specificity oneself, but being able to

980
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: create space that feels very inclusive and welcoming for everyone.

981
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 2: Has there ever been anything that's really difficult that you've

982
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 2: gone through in life that you feel your faith has

983
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 2: been integral to moving through.

984
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: I don't think there's been a life event like you know,

985
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 1: some of the huge things that happen or you know,

986
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: losing a love one, things like that that are often

987
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 1: the cause of a you know, a deep grief and

988
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: sorrow that you know, it sometimes leads to a spiritual search.

989
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:20,240
Speaker 1: But I think I have experienced crisis of faith which

990
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 1: required faith to come out.

991
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 2: That's good.

992
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which, yeah, it took me by surprise, you know.

993
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: I think the experience, especially if you're used to being

994
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: someone who who, that's something that you do feel sure of,

995
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: and then when it's suddenly not there, it can feel

996
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: like rug is pulled out from under your feet. And

997
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: I felt like I'm not quite sure who I am.

998
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 1: You know, you're like like like in a coloring book.

999
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: You know, you've got the lines and that's like the

1000
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: defined color within the lines. But imagine if the lines

1001
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: just disappeared and you're just color, Like who am I?

1002
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 1: Without that? I have experienced that a couple of times.

1003
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's it's an interesting answer

1004
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:11,439
Speaker 2: because yeah, it's like how I hosted the Variety Faith

1005
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 2: and Spirituality on his last week, and I was talking

1006
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 2: about how the people who are being awarded and honored

1007
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 2: they've showed different types of faith, and I was saying

1008
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 2: it showed having faith, messy faith, losing faith, and that's

1009
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 2: what makes it so real. Where I think faith based

1010
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 2: content or people sometimes have always been shown as one note,

1011
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 2: where like this is who you are, or like this

1012
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 2: is the kind of person you should be. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1013
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 2: And now I think we're showing these variegated depictions of

1014
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 2: what faith can look like, it's spirituality can look like,

1015
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 2: and it's just so much more real because relata relatable

1016
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 2: and grounded and accessible and yeah, just truly trying to

1017
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 2: spar because that's what it can look like. And I

1018
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 2: think if anyone is a person of how did faith

1019
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 2: help you rEFInd faith when there was a crisis of faith?

1020
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: I think there was a period of time and it

1021
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 1: wasn't that long, but because of the disorientation that I felt,

1022
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: it felt a lot longer than it was. I think

1023
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 1: of feeling like the faith had just totally evaporated, and

1024
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, it feels like a type of it feels

1025
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: like a type of darkness because something that had previously

1026
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: given you a lot of light and internal support and

1027
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: nourishment just seems to disappear or no, it seems like

1028
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: vapor that is was that actually real? And I think

1029
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 1: I think faith almost it felt like it seeped in

1030
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: almost like a you know, through a pin hole where

1031
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 1: you get light that just comes through a tiny crack

1032
00:58:56,560 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: and it gradually grows. But initially there had to be

1033
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 1: a speck of faith for me to think that faith

1034
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: could even return in a way, I had to be

1035
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: open to that. And I found through that experience I

1036
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: connected more to prayer spontaneously and personally versus more ritual

1037
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: type of worship or a set you know, practice or routine,

1038
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: more spontaneously, more expressively in English. And it's funny because

1039
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 1: I grew up, you know, completely steeped in prayer, like

1040
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: throughout the day, because that's just the environment I was in.

1041
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,919
Speaker 1: I was thinking about the soundscape of my life growing up.

1042
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: There was always bells ringing, and you know, in my

1043
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: tradition we blow this conch shell. There's these kind of

1044
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: spiritual sounds around and ancient Mantra's Sanskrit was a very

1045
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: familiar language for me. But what I didn't have confidence

1046
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 1: and ease with was praying in the language that I

1047
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 1: speak and actually being that personal to just be alone

1048
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: and speak those words whatever was coming up. And I

1049
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: think that was a really transformative experience and time for

1050
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 1: me and actually led to some of the songs that

1051
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: I've recorded because eventually I thought, you know, you don't

1052
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 1: always think like that I should record this because it's

1053
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: so personal and specific. But I did feel that I

1054
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 1: bet there are others who go through these times or

1055
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 1: who feel these these emotions, who may it may enable

1056
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 1: them to express words that they can't find the words

1057
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: to say.

1058
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 2: Do you think we all need to talk to God

1059
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 2: more one?

1060
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was thinking about this ahead of our chat

1061
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 1: because I was thinking about how much you know, in

1062
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: the last I don't know if it's the last decade,

1063
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 1: but of course mindfulness is a word that we've heard

1064
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: so much. Meditation has become something that is so in

1065
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: many ways integrated into you know, it's not that everyone

1066
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: does it, but if you say it, no one's going

1067
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: to probably look at you funny. You might see people

1068
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: doing in an ad or you know. I always remember

1069
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 1: walking into I think it was gap or something, you know,

1070
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: on a high street, and there were these mannequins sitting

1071
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: like this in the lotus position, and I was like, oh, interesting,

1072
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: this is like filtering into just everyday you know, culture

1073
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: and fashion. But I was thinking about how meditation can

1074
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: bring us into this space of stillness and internal connection.

1075
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: But what am I meditating on and the difference between

1076
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 1: just coming to a place of groundedness, stillness, calming the mind,

1077
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: and prayer, to me is quite distinct. That's my personal

1078
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: take on it. You know, someone may use those terms

1079
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: differently and describe it differently, but I feel like, yeah,

1080
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: if prayer is not something that you've ever done, or

1081
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: even if it is something that's familiar that you did

1082
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 1: grow up with, I feel like, you know, sometimes they

1083
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 1: say I'll just try doing something with your left hand

1084
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: or your non dominant hand because it will reveal something

1085
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 1: to you, or you'll feel a different way of looking

1086
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: at something and doing something. I think, yeah, it might

1087
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 1: be something that listeners would like to try, you know,

1088
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: to either approach it for the first time or approach

1089
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: it through a different pathway, like.

1090
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 2: What you've been used to, take a new neural pathway.

1091
01:02:58,160 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 2: Almost yeah, yeah, why not?

1092
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sometimes it sometimes it involves you know, there's

1093
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: so many different ways that people pray. For some people

1094
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 1: it's very spontaneous. Some people have a very ritualized way

1095
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 1: of placing their body in a certain position or doing

1096
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 1: certain actions. And I think all of those things are

1097
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 1: designed to bring us into a certain state of mind

1098
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 1: and of being that allows can allow you to express

1099
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 1: some of these deepest, these deepest sentiments that are otherwise

1100
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: quite hard to access in a natural way.

1101
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. Yeah. I for me, like, I find

1102
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 2: I love talking to God when I'm driving.

1103
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 1: I do that, I do.

1104
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 2: That's my favorite. Yeah.

1105
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 1: In one of the hardest times I experienced, that was

1106
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: the time you just reminded me of that. I would

1107
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: just talk. Yeah, driving by myself, cry speak sing.

1108
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 2: I find driving to be so therapeutic in a place

1109
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 2: to share streams of Yeah, and I always love it.

1110
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 2: I think it also reminds me of that Bruce Almighty

1111
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 2: scene where he's like asking God for a sign. Yeah,

1112
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 2: God keeps sending him loads of signs and ignoring them,

1113
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 2: and then his car goes off the bridge or whatever

1114
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 2: it is, and I'm like, yeah, I'm always looking around

1115
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 2: for signs, and I'm driving and connecting billboards to God's

1116
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 2: message to me. And it's just like this fun idea

1117
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 2: that that there's some you know, there's some power in

1118
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 2: what I'm reading and seeing. So I love that last

1119
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 2: question before the final five, what's a question you ask

1120
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 2: yourself when you feel lost.

1121
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 1: M Am I connected with my Am I am I

1122
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: being of service? Am I actually connected with service in

1123
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: this moment.

1124
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 2: Because you believe that if you're connected to service, then

1125
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 2: you'll have found where you belong.

1126
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like it's a state of being which

1127
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: is protective because it's protective of the experience of being

1128
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 1: totally lost because you're focusing on giving. It's hard being

1129
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: embodied human. You know, it's so easy to feel lost

1130
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 1: for so many different reasons. But when you're thinking about

1131
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 1: how you can serve someone else, whatever that may look like,

1132
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 1: I find that that really helps me.

1133
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 2: It's such a great answer, and I could agree more.

1134
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 2: And I think it's I think it's one of the

1135
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 2: biggest losses of modern education and modern space, where everything

1136
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 2: to solve you is all about you and not about

1137
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 2: anyone else. And there's been studies on this too, like

1138
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 2: if you have depression and you help people who have depression,

1139
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 2: your depression goes down. And so even in a really

1140
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:48,200
Speaker 2: difficult state, the active service can still be helpful to yourself.

1141
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 2: What to speak of when things are not that bad? Yeah,

1142
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 2: and Yeah, it's fascinating to me how we always think Oh,

1143
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:56,479
Speaker 2: if I have more than I'll be able to give more.

1144
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 2: But actually, wherever you are just now, you already may

1145
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 2: have a little more than someone else. And if you

1146
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 2: can help and support in whatever way, time, energy, money,

1147
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 2: if that is your way of helping. Yeah, I love

1148
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 2: that answer. It is such a good answer.

1149
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 1: It's something I've been I've been trying to to say

1150
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: this this prayer every day and it's it's it's a

1151
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 1: traditional Sanskrit prayer. I won't say all the words, but

1152
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 1: it ends with the phrase das anudas and that means,

1153
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: you know, servant of the servant. And it's funny when

1154
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: when I when I was growing up, and you know,

1155
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: this is one of those things that in a in

1156
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 1: a religious community, a certain thing becomes a way that

1157
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 1: people do things which from the outside can seem a

1158
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: bit weird. Yeah, so everybody would sign a letter or

1159
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 1: a message your servant. And I can't remember when it happened,

1160
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 1: but maybe we were visiting some relatives or something. But

1161
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: I just saw that through a different lens and I

1162
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 1: thought that must sound so funny because the idea of

1163
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 1: being a servant is not something that we would regard

1164
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: very highly, you know, in a sort of like regular world.

1165
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 1: But it's a really profound spiritual idea that to identify

1166
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: as a servant as like an essential identity keeps you

1167
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: always looking for ways to contribute and give. So, yeah,

1168
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:18,919
Speaker 1: I find that really helps me a lot.

1169
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, I think if you it's really interesting

1170
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 2: because I think the misconception of that is when we think, oh,

1171
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 2: that means I have to stay small.

1172
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, or that means I'm going to be exploited.

1173
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 2: Correct, correct, And it's almost like there's been the servant

1174
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 2: leadership movement and even the idea of oh, you could

1175
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 2: be the SEO of a company and see yourself in

1176
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 2: service of others. Yeah, Like it's not based on your

1177
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 2: position in society. It's based on the mood and intention

1178
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 2: that you do that act with. So someone could be

1179
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 2: the coach of the biggest soccer team in the world

1180
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 2: and see themselves as serving their team, and someone can

1181
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 2: be the best player in the world and see themselves

1182
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 2: as serving their team. Or you could be all those

1183
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 2: things and think you're the best thing in the world

1184
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 2: and no one else is important, and so it's got

1185
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:11,200
Speaker 2: nothing to do with your external position. And I think

1186
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 2: the problem we think is, Oh, my external position has

1187
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:16,720
Speaker 2: to match that. Yeah, so therefore I want to be small. Yeah,

1188
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: I've got to be small and play small. And it

1189
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense because.

1190
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like to understand. I'd like to to understand

1191
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 1: and grasp that more deeply, because I think I still

1192
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,879
Speaker 1: struggle with that. Like you've always, you know, in our friendship,

1193
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 1: You've always encouraged me to embrace what I'm doing and

1194
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: be you know, unafraid to to I guess, grow and

1195
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 1: broadcast out what I'm doing, you know, bigger and bigger

1196
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:46,679
Speaker 1: as a service. But it's so difficult when you're you're

1197
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 1: you're more visible or more in a position of leadership

1198
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 1: to continue to kind of, yeah, harmonize that that idea

1199
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 1: that I'm serving, but also have to kind of have

1200
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 1: the things that go along with being more in a

1201
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 1: leadership position. I don't know, for me, I find it challenging.

1202
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I don't disagree. I think that the more

1203
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 2: closer you get to your unique service, the less you

1204
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 2: see it as big and small, and the more you

1205
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,559
Speaker 2: see it as just yours, and so there is no

1206
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 2: it kind of fades away because it's so clearly what

1207
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 2: you were meant to do that. Then you don't see

1208
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 2: it as big or expansive or small or not. It's

1209
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 2: just is. And therefore I find that people who know

1210
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 2: their purpose and their drama are less envious, and less

1211
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 2: comparative and less all of those things because they just

1212
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 2: found their thing.

1213
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:44,639
Speaker 1: You know, you can't be or do what someone else

1214
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: is doing because correct, you know yourself so well and correct,

1215
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: and you feel aligned in what you're doing. I guess

1216
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 1: I guess I'm coming to that. I'm coming to that now.

1217
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 1: I think I've finally accepted myself as doing what I'm doing.

1218
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,679
Speaker 1: And this is why I an't taken a long time.

1219
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll got in the universe. Had to nominate you

1220
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 2: for a dammy to get you to understand that.

1221
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 1: I mean, he knows that I need a big push,

1222
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:07,600
Speaker 1: you know.

1223
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it, Janney. This has been so nice

1224
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 2: getting to know you this way. Like I know, we've

1225
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 2: we've had so many conversations. I mean, whenever you're over

1226
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 2: at the house and you come up and will like

1227
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:18,519
Speaker 2: you know, stay up and talk for hours and hours

1228
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 2: and hours. You know, I love having these conversations. But

1229
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 2: I film so glad I get to share you with

1230
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 2: the community. And I know you've been on before a

1231
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 2: few years back. Now that was twenty twenty twenty, was

1232
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 2: it twenty twenty.

1233
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 1: That was in your old place.

1234
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so amazing to have you back on.

1235
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 1: Thank you. And I'm a fan of the podcast, so

1236
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 1: this is like very cool for me.

1237
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,679
Speaker 2: It's awesome to have you here. And we end every episode,

1238
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 2: as you know as a fan of the podcast, with

1239
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 2: a final five.

1240
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1241
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 2: These questions have to be answered in one word to

1242
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 2: one sentence maximum Wow, everyone does one sentence and no

1243
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 2: one okay, okay, So Johannavie Harrison, these are your final

1244
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 2: five thank you. Question one, what is the best advice

1245
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 2: you've ever heard or received?

1246
01:10:58,640 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid?

1247
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 2: He told you that, do you remember.

1248
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 1: I've heard it from many different people, but I think

1249
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:09,599
Speaker 1: my parents' mentors. Yeah, and it's there in the bugger

1250
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 1: with Gita. Don't be afraid, have trust and courage and

1251
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 1: keep walking forward. Yes, purpose yes. Question number two, what

1252
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:23,559
Speaker 1: is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Anything

1253
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: related to what will other people think?

1254
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:31,640
Speaker 2: Definitely? Definitely. It's when you say you want to do

1255
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:33,799
Speaker 2: something and goes what will they say? What will Yeah?

1256
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a good answer.

1257
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 2: Question number three, is there a decision you made that

1258
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 2: didn't make any logical sense but was the right one

1259
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 2: for you?

1260
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 1: The decision I made to on purpose miss a plane

1261
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 1: home to get to take up this job as a

1262
01:11:55,600 --> 01:12:01,519
Speaker 1: magazine editor. I've never I'm always like a real rule follower,

1263
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: and the fact that I had a flight book is

1264
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 1: and that I intentionally missed it and just said I'm

1265
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,680
Speaker 1: going to drop that. That didn't make any sense at

1266
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: the time, and the next morning when I woke up,

1267
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 1: I was like, what did I do? But I think

1268
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,160
Speaker 1: I was trying to follow a deeper intuition and it

1269
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:20,599
Speaker 1: turned out to lead me to this and many other moments,

1270
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:25,440
Speaker 1: but that it took a long time for me to realize. Yeah,

1271
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 1: I had to have confidence in that decision along the way.

1272
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad you did that question of before,

1273
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 2: what's something that you used to value that you don't

1274
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:34,639
Speaker 2: value anymore.

1275
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 1: I think I used to put a lot more value

1276
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 1: on other people's opinions, and that doesn't mean that I

1277
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 1: don't now, but it's something I've actively worked on because

1278
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:53,240
Speaker 1: I've realized how how damaging it can be to place

1279
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 1: that much weight and concern on what other people are

1280
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 1: thinking and saying I don't know if I could have

1281
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 1: come to that point any earlier. Yeah, part of growing

1282
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 1: up for sure.

1283
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's the biggest one. It's it's a weird one.

1284
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 2: You want to It's almost like you want to choose

1285
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 2: which opinions you listen to from which people. Yeah, because

1286
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 2: we all have to listen to someone like yeah, and

1287
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:19,680
Speaker 2: you know, as we talk about in spirituality, there has

1288
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 2: to be some sense of authority and the challenges when

1289
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 2: you give everyone an authority of yeah, and all of

1290
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 2: a sudden, now you listen to everyone with equal You

1291
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:32,880
Speaker 2: listen to everyone with equal attention despite their lack of

1292
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 2: authority or competence or character. Weight to give weight when

1293
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:38,599
Speaker 2: it doesn't have any value. Yeah, that's what I think

1294
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 2: is the issue. We all have to listen to someone,

1295
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 2: but we give too much weight and value to people

1296
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 2: who don't know anything about that or us.

1297
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think I used to do that to the extreme,

1298
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 1: probably because of also growing up in an environment where

1299
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 1: you're expected to, you know, respectfully hear from anyone who's

1300
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 1: older than you or you know, knows more than you.

1301
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's I'm a work in progress for sure.

1302
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:06,720
Speaker 2: No, I came up with a system whenever I thinks

1303
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,679
Speaker 2: like a monk to make it easier because I struggled

1304
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:13,120
Speaker 2: with that so much. Inspiritual circles, for sure, but in general,

1305
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 2: and I came up with something that I call the

1306
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:21,800
Speaker 2: four season, which is character, care, consistency, and competence. And

1307
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:23,680
Speaker 2: so I think about the problem that I have and

1308
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:25,439
Speaker 2: then I figure out who I'm speaking to based on

1309
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 2: one of those four. So if it's a morality question,

1310
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 2: I have to ask the person of high character, because

1311
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 2: if I just ask the person who cares about me,

1312
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:37,040
Speaker 2: they may bend morality in my favor. Or if I

1313
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 2: am worried about my health, I've got to talk to

1314
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 2: the person who cares about me but is also competent,

1315
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 2: whereas the person who might have who might consistently be

1316
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 2: around me, they may not have the best insight and advice.

1317
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:50,760
Speaker 2: Or like, for example, if I talk to my mom,

1318
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 2: she just cares if I've eaten well, but she won't

1319
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:56,519
Speaker 2: give me the best work advice because she'd prefer I

1320
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 2: take care of myself then do something good for work.

1321
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:01,639
Speaker 1: And so do they all four have to be there

1322
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:03,519
Speaker 1: or it's different things for different stuff.

1323
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 2: I believe no one has all four Oh and there

1324
01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 2: are different things for different decisions. Yeah, and they just

1325
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 2: care about you. Yeah, so there's advice is skewed, but

1326
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:16,840
Speaker 2: their opinion is also. One of my favorite quotes says,

1327
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:21,400
Speaker 2: don't take directions from someone who's never been to where

1328
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 2: you're going. And we all do that. We all take

1329
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 2: someone's opinion and they've not even been there, they've never

1330
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 2: they've never reached that or achieved that, and we're sitting

1331
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 2: here taking their word as gospel. Yeah, and so yeah,

1332
01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 2: those four sees have kind of really helped me.

1333
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:36,679
Speaker 1: That is really helpful.

1334
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, tough.

1335
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 1: It's tough one to learn because you may have people

1336
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:43,640
Speaker 1: that are very close to you and you assume that

1337
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:46,759
Speaker 1: by intimacy, by the fact that they know you so deeply,

1338
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:50,679
Speaker 1: that they will have all or at least most of those.

1339
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's necessarily the case.

1340
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, even even my mom, Like my mom has a

1341
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:58,640
Speaker 2: very good character. She cares about me, she's consistent, but

1342
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 2: she's not competent in every She's competent in some are

1343
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:03,720
Speaker 2: is there some things my mom has great insight on you,

1344
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 2: but she's not competent in every area of my life

1345
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 2: and therefore it's not you know then anyway, all right,

1346
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:11,599
Speaker 2: Fifth and final question. We asked this every guest who's

1347
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 2: ever been on the show. If you could create one

1348
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 2: law that everyone in the world had to follow, what

1349
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:16,960
Speaker 2: would it be.

1350
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:25,120
Speaker 1: I would love everyone to talk to God more. I

1351
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 1: feel like I feel like a lot of you know,

1352
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 1: like a domino effect, a lot of things would shift.

1353
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 1: And I know it sounds like a cliche, but to

1354
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 1: truly have this mood of being in service to others,

1355
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 1: to each other. Imagine if that was like a compulsory

1356
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 1: thing just to be a citizen of the world. I

1357
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:52,799
Speaker 1: think it would be a beautiful world.

1358
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 2: It's a great answer. How do you know if you're

1359
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:56,679
Speaker 2: talking to God or talking to yourself?

1360
01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:01,840
Speaker 1: You know it's intention. You might it might look like

1361
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 1: you're talking to yourself, but I think you it's. Yeah,

1362
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 1: it's purely about your intention. If you address God, I mean,

1363
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: if you are familiar with any spiritual tradition, most most

1364
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:21,760
Speaker 1: will agree that God is everywhere, in everything, everything is

1365
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:26,840
Speaker 1: coming from Him her, and so there's so many different

1366
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:30,439
Speaker 1: ways to do that. And yeah, you can do it

1367
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:32,519
Speaker 1: in your own way, or you can get guidance on

1368
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:36,040
Speaker 1: how to do it. But I think if you've if

1369
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:40,519
Speaker 1: you've not experienced it before, it's just it's it's so

1370
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:45,360
Speaker 1: worth it, and it's not worth it's not worth missing

1371
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:48,800
Speaker 1: out on what you may find through that experience, to

1372
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 1: you know, to kind of leave it aside.

1373
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 2: Everyone. The album is called Into the Forest. Jenevie Harrison

1374
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:57,360
Speaker 2: just got nominated for a Grammy. I'm so excited. I'll

1375
01:17:57,400 --> 01:17:59,960
Speaker 2: be the game key. Yeah, the thing has crossed.

1376
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,879
Speaker 1: Hoping see you in two months, hoping for the way. Yeah.

1377
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:05,719
Speaker 2: For any of you don't already, please follow Janavi Arrison

1378
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:08,760
Speaker 2: on Instagram. You can subscribe to your music on Spotify

1379
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:11,920
Speaker 2: and listen along to the album she's mentioned today. And Johnavian,

1380
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:14,200
Speaker 2: thank you so much for being such a dear friend,

1381
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 2: for doing this interview, and so proud of you, so

1382
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:22,320
Speaker 2: excited for this really big moment in your amazing career.

1383
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:26,599
Speaker 2: And thank you just you doing something based on service

1384
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 2: and devotion and it being recognized at this level. It's

1385
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 2: so exciting you.

1386
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:32,439
Speaker 1: I want to say thank you to you because you've

1387
01:18:32,479 --> 01:18:38,400
Speaker 1: been such an encouraging friend. But also I think so

1388
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 1: many of these very meaningful moments in my journey have

1389
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 1: been somehow connected to you through through serving together, I've

1390
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 1: learned so much and I recognize that a lot of

1391
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 1: significant growth that I've had has been through your encouragement.

1392
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 1: So I really feel that. So I share the Grammy

1393
01:18:58,479 --> 01:18:59,320
Speaker 1: nom with you.

1394
01:19:00,760 --> 01:19:05,240
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and everyone add that to my bio. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1395
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 1: No, it's really a privilege. I'm so grateful to be here.

1396
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 2: No, you're so kind and honestly, it's been such a joy.

1397
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:13,800
Speaker 2: Like it's fun looking back at those pictures of the

1398
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:14,599
Speaker 2: last twenty years.

1399
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:15,679
Speaker 1: Did you mention Weymouth?

1400
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:19,240
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, do you know the funny thing about that

1401
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:21,360
Speaker 2: picture is I'm actually sitting behind a pillar, so you

1402
01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 2: can't even see me in it. But it's like, yeah,

1403
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:25,880
Speaker 2: we drove to Weymouth, which I can't remember how father

1404
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 2: is from London.

1405
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:28,639
Speaker 1: I think it was about three hours, three.

1406
01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:30,720
Speaker 2: Hours, We stayed the night, We did an event as

1407
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 2: like ten people came.

1408
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:34,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like, I mean it's a beautiful event.

1409
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:35,680
Speaker 2: It was a beautiful event. But that's the kind of

1410
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:39,320
Speaker 2: you know, it's fun talking about these things because it's

1411
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:41,120
Speaker 2: easy to sit here now and you know, you nominate

1412
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:42,800
Speaker 2: for Grammy and all the rest of it. But it's like, no,

1413
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 2: it's like we used to drive three hours and I

1414
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:48,240
Speaker 2: would do a talk and you would chant and lead

1415
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 2: meditations and we would do that for free, just wanting

1416
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 2: to do our surveys. And we do it all the time.

1417
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,000
Speaker 2: We did our universities. We did it and it was

1418
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:00,960
Speaker 2: just for free all the time. Yeah, together, and it's

1419
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:04,360
Speaker 2: fun looking back, and you know, we still do so

1420
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:06,599
Speaker 2: many things for the community and yeah, you're and there,

1421
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:09,519
Speaker 2: but it's just so yeah, it's fun. It's fun too,

1422
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 2: came back.

1423
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how to change channel and hold on to

1424
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 1: that same spirit even though the form, you know, the

1425
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:21,719
Speaker 1: vessel of it may change, it may have more kind

1426
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 1: of image of material success, but the intention that yes,

1427
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 1: I want to be there and I want to I

1428
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 1: want to show up with everything that I can give,

1429
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:33,799
Speaker 1: how to kind of yeah, hold on to that. I know.

1430
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:35,160
Speaker 2: There was a magic about those times.

1431
01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:39,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember doing these meditation sessions at Soas University.

1432
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:44,519
Speaker 1: Remember running from the tube station across Russell Square and

1433
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 1: it would be like three students would be there and

1434
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 1: we do that for an hour. But yeah, there's precious times.

1435
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 1: Anytime you get those kind of opportunities, I think so yeah, absolutely.

1436
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:57,479
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much.

1437
01:20:57,520 --> 01:20:57,760
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1438
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:02,000
Speaker 2: If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with

1439
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:05,320
Speaker 2: doctor Daniel Ahman on how to change your life by

1440
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:06,280
Speaker 2: changing your brain.

1441
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:11,680
Speaker 3: If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with

1442
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:12,559
Speaker 3: a healthy brain.

1443
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:12,960
Speaker 1: You know.

1444
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:17,040
Speaker 3: I've had the blessing or the curse to scan over

1445
01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 3: a thousand convicted felons and over one hundred murderers, and

1446
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:23,439
Speaker 3: their brains are very damaged.