1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: This is a heavy one. Our classic episode today involves crime, 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: involves kidnapping, involves organs. It's something called the red market, 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: and heads up, it may not be appropriate for all listeners. 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: The organ trade. It's a real thing. It's a real problem. 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: We're gonna get into the issues with the stuff that's 6 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: above board. In every country across the world where there's 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: a need for a transplant, there is a need for 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: a donor someone to give their kidney or their liver, 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: or their you know, parts of their eyes, their corneas 10 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: or something because someone else is in need. Usually it 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: goes in the order of someone passes or donates a 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: part of themselves and then it can go to an 13 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: eligible person. But in this case, what we're talking about, 14 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,319 Speaker 1: it's when there are a lot of people who need 15 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: something and there's no supply. Yeah, it's it's a real 16 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: ongoing problem until organs can be reliably man factured in 17 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: a lab. But on a lighter note, just a bit 18 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: of stuff. They want you to go behind the scenes, 19 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: peek past the curtain, folks. Uh that I want to 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: publicly thank you for talking me off the editorial ledge 21 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: years back when did this because I really wanted to 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: call this episode the Oregon Trail, and that would be 23 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: an inappropriate joke. I mean, you know, you gotta follow 24 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: something to get to the bad guys, and in this case, 25 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: they left a trail of bloody organs and fractured lives. 26 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: I'm sorry this liver is no longer viable due to 27 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: dysenterry game over. I mean, obviously I held onto that 28 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: for years, so I could just say it now. But 29 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: but no, this is uh crime kidnapping New York. It's 30 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: certainly you said it on the episode as well. You 31 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't have you wouldn't have kept that one in your 32 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: back pocket this long. Then. I don't know, man, we'll 33 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: see right, let us know. Did he say it in 34 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: the episode? Do you choose to cross the river with 35 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: your wagon? It's a big choice. It's a big choice. 36 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: From u pos to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History 37 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now 38 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 39 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 40 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: name is Noel. They called me Ben and you are you? 41 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: And that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. 42 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: Today's podcast comes oddly enough, from a a pretty tasteless 43 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: joke that we made a while back, and I don't 44 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: remember if it made it to the air, did it 45 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: It did? Yeah, we were joking about the Oregon Trail 46 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: because someone suggested we we cover the topic of illegal 47 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: organ trafficking, which is a great suggestion. And then we 48 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: all died of dysentery. And then we all died of 49 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: dysentery in the middle of spoiler alert. Yeah. Yeah, because 50 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 1: we were dumb enough to start the game as farmers 51 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: never do that way harder. But yeah, we were kicking around, 52 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: just terrible titles. Uh. And one of those was, of 53 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: course the organ Trail. Well if you say it like that, 54 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: yeah you can go either way. Well, title aside, this 55 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: is I don't apologize for that title. I didn't. I 56 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: just said title aside. Uh okay. So uh. We think 57 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: this is a complex, global and continual phenomenon and it 58 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: is worth exploring in depth because, aside from some maybe 59 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: scare pieces that pop up at a slow day in 60 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: the news cycle, this is not really examined and the 61 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: causes of it aren't examined as well. There is a 62 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: lot of stuff they don't want you to know about 63 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: organ transplants, the organ trade in general, what has been 64 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: called the red market. So at first I wanted to 65 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: ask you guys, uh, Matt, Noel, those are our real names, 66 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: sorry for everyone? Should we apologize for that one? I 67 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: don't know what you're talking about. That's a good point. 68 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: So have have you guys ever known or been acquainted 69 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: with someone who received an organ transplant? I could not 70 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: come up with a good example when I was going 71 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: back through my life. Um, if you count bone marrow, 72 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: which I think you should, yeah, then yes, I know. 73 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: It's an intense process as far as like getting on 74 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: a list, getting matched with the right candidate, and then 75 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: actually getting the procedure done and having everything booked because 76 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: it is a very timely process, you know, once everything 77 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: goes through, uh, and there's a lot of uncertainty, and 78 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: you even hear stories about people trying to get higher 79 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: up on the list by you know, greasing some palms 80 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: here and there. You know, I mean, they're a lot 81 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: at stake obviously, and I won't say who this person was, 82 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: just to you know, maintain their their privacy. But yeah, 83 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: it was it was very nerve nerve wracking, just wondering 84 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: when it was gonna happen, when it was going to 85 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: go through, and when it did go through, if everything 86 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: was gonna work out correctly. Yeah, because even with everything 87 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: going as well as possible, there's still a there's still 88 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: a significant risk. And it's not like if that one 89 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: doesn't work out, they're just gonna give you another one. 90 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the one that you get, and then 91 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: if it doesn't look out, if you make it, and 92 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: you have to start the whole process over it. So 93 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: that is a terrifying prospect. Let's let's talk about organs first, because, 94 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: as you know, this podcast is part of how stuff works, 95 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: so we want to start at the most basic thing. Organs. 96 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: They're one are the few things that everybody has in common. 97 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: Everyone who is involved with this show, we all have organs. Yes, 98 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 1: everyone listening to this show hopefully has organs. Maybe there's 99 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,799 Speaker 1: some sort of machine consciousness listening there, and that gets 100 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 1: into conversation about what would constitute and an organ. Yeah, 101 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: maybe Dick Cheney is listening with his robotic heart that 102 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: just constantly circulates blood instead of pumping. That's a pacemaker. 103 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: That's not isn't it. It's not He doesn't have a 104 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: pacemaker anymore. Now it's just a constant flow of blood. 105 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: There's no he has no heartbeat. I thought you just 106 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: meant he was like heartless individual. I thought you were. Well, no, no, 107 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: I'm not riffing. This is true, but but I'm also 108 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: implying certain certain ways their levels to this statement. Yeah, well, 109 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: I want one of those person Cheney charming personally, That's true. 110 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: You usually say that as soon as I'm smiling. I'm 111 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: doing it just just just for the folks listening. I 112 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: am doing a big Cheshire Cat grin here. Sometimes I 113 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: say things like I mean them, and then I'm smiling 114 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: or making a face that these guys and you guys 115 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: don't see that. So you may think I have quite 116 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: an odd variety of opinions out there in podcast LAMB. 117 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: But just to set the record straight, you knowing, No 118 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: Brown is a huge Dick Cheney fan. So, by the 119 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: strictest definition and by in biology biologically speaking, outside the 120 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: world of music, an organ is just a group of 121 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: tissues in a living organism that have been adapted to 122 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: perform a specific function. Sounds simple that, Yeah, it sounds 123 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: pretty simple. You have a heart, and your heart has 124 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: like one main job, right, sure, same with your liver, 125 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: your kidneys, your eyes, all of the parts. I think 126 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: there are seventy eight official organs. Well by that by 127 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: it depends again on the definition and be around seventy eight. 128 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: People will argue back and forth what does or does 129 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: not constitute an organ entire. What I I meet though, 130 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: is that these organs are divided into two very distinct categories. Um. 131 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: All the ones we mentioned are considered vital organs, which 132 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: are organs that are absolutely essential for maintaining your health 133 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: and you know, your life ultimately. Um. These are the 134 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: kinds of things like your heart, your brain, your kidneys, 135 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: your liver, things that perform processes that you need done 136 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: in order to live in the environment that we Yeah, 137 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: I think the besides the eyes I mentioned the eyes, 138 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: that's true, But I don't know. Would you consider I 139 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: as part of this second category, vestigial organs, which is yeah, well, 140 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I don't know. I think 141 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: you would probably get arguments for that. I suppose you 142 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: could say, maybe we could live in a society where 143 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: we have evolved beyond the need of our eyes, but 144 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: you'd certainly put you at a disadvantage and right now, 145 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: society has evolved to make something like blindness or deafness, Uh, 146 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,479 Speaker 1: not a death sentence. But if people were simply animals 147 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: in a way hunter gatherer type scenario like might be sunk, 148 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: it would be it would it would be more difficult, 149 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: for sure. And that's that's one of the that's one 150 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: of the great benefits of the human, the whole human experiment. Right. 151 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: But well, let's talk about these other organs, at least 152 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: vestigil right, vestigial organs. This would be something that is 153 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: a rudimentary structure in us that corresponds to a functional 154 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: structure in another animal. Right, sometimes described as the lower animals, 155 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: which I think is hugely condescending and unfair. But we 156 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: have all kinds of examples of this, right, What about 157 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: things like tonsils are like an appendix, yeah, wisdom teeth 158 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 1: or maybe a tail? Yes, people are born sometimes to 159 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: the tail, perhaps male nipples. Oh man, I'm so tired 160 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: of like it used to really bother me. It's like, 161 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: why are these here? Is there have no per this. 162 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: You guys aren't using them, right, I mean not like 163 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: right now. No, I'm just saying you're not using them correctly. Oh, 164 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: I see We're a family show. Did you guys see 165 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: I just really fast? Did you see the article about 166 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: the Atlanta native couple? Uh? Josh and Chuck posted this 167 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: quick thing of a woman who left her job to 168 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: find a male partner, oh to to breast feast feed 169 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: at like adults. And this is apparently a huge thing. 170 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: Is it like a like a fetishy thing? I think 171 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, But he doesn't have some sort of 172 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: strange disorder that makes him some sort of breast milk vampire. 173 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: Does she like have to burp him and stuff? I 174 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: don't know, but but I did some looking into this story, 175 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: and it appears that there's a whole counterculture of people 176 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: who do this, who believe that there are massive health 177 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: benefits for both parts. There are people who say that 178 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: their health benefits. Yet and perhaps that is an episode 179 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,239 Speaker 1: or another day, and perhaps perhaps you are right, And hey, 180 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: it's tough to be happy, So I wish them the 181 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: best of luck. It sounds like it's consensual returning to organs. 182 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: So we've got these things. We need many of them. 183 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: There's some that we don't particularly need need to live right. 184 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: You can go without a kidney both. You could go 185 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: without wisdom teeth. What do you do when the important 186 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: ones fail, the ones that are not like add on 187 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: packages to the car that is your body, but the 188 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: stuff that's like the engine and the transmission. Well, for 189 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: thousands and thousands and thousands of years, when people's organs failed, 190 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: they died. Yep, that was it, sometimes quickly, sometimes in prolonged, 191 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: excruciatingly painful ways. The human body. To bring it to 192 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: our current capitalist society, the human body was a product 193 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: with planned obsolete since no warranties and no returns, no 194 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,599 Speaker 1: exchanges either. And that's not to say that over the 195 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: years throughout history, medical science hasn't been attempting to replace 196 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: these things in dying humans when their their heart is 197 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: giving out or their liver is dying or something like that. 198 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: We've attempted humans many times to try and replace these things. Yeah, 199 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: not you knowlan me, but fellow members of our species 200 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: have been experimenting with oregan transplants since at least the 201 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: seventeenth century, and animals and in humans, and along the 202 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: way there were many, many, many gruesome, horrific and tragic failures. 203 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: A lot of them we don't even know about because 204 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: they were never written down right, but we do have 205 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: early examples. Yeah, like in sixteen sixty eight, um, a 206 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: bone raft was attempted using a dog's skull and actually 207 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: successfully attached this graph to a humans head. Yeah, yeah, 208 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: we see the animal transplants, the practice of putting animal 209 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: components into a human body, where um, we're not unheard of. 210 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: I mean at the time, it probably seemed like a 211 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: logical jump to make you know, why not, let's just 212 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: give it a shot. And that could have also been 213 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: at the what if stage. Yeah, sure, especially if you're 214 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 1: getting desperate trying to save somebody, I mean, and if 215 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: someone is on their last legs, you try anything, and 216 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: in that desperation. In nine five, uh, there were some 217 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: doctors who took slices of a rabbit kidney. They put 218 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: it into a child and it did seem to improve 219 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: kidney function at least for a little while. Unfortunately, the 220 00:13:54,400 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: child did die shortly after that from all from pulmonary congestion. Right. 221 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: And then in the same year nineteen o five, doctors 222 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: managed to transplant a cornea into the damaged die of 223 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: a laborer, restoring his sight. That's that to me is 224 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: crazy to think about. In nineteen o five, like any 225 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: kind of eye surgery back then, that's like buying a 226 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: lottery tickets every day for a week and winning. Yeah. 227 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: Then in nineteen and six, we have a French surgeon, 228 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: Matteo Jubile, who attempted to save two patients lives. Uh. 229 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: They were suffering from renal failure by transplanting goat kidney 230 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: into one of the patients and a pig kidney into 231 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: the other, and they died shortly there after work. And 232 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: I think what the big takeaway is from a lot 233 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: of these early examples is that these organs are incredibly specific. 234 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: They and this just goes into the whole idea of 235 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: being on a transplant list or like getting you have 236 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: to get just the right one, has to match your 237 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: blood type, has to there are a lot of factors 238 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: involved that you know will make this work, otherwise your 239 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: body will literally reject this organ right in this There 240 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: were other attempts through the thirties and on and on 241 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: and with each of these uh, with each of these 242 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: failures that were hard lessons learned, and it looked like 243 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: it maybe it might be something that was just going 244 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: to be beyond the bounds of reliable medical technology and science, 245 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: at least that is until the first successful oregan transplant 246 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: in December of nineteen fifty four. Yeah, it was this 247 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: guy named Ronald Herrick. He was the first one. He 248 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: had a successful transplant procedure. Pretty awesome, Um it was. 249 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: It's a cool story to actually and and there's a 250 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: house Stuff Works article on organ donation where you can 251 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: find this story. Um. He he had a twin brother 252 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: named Richard, and one of his you know, his kidneys 253 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: were failing, and his brother basically decided, well, what if 254 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: I give one of my kidneys? And the doctor saw 255 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: this was really interesting because it hadn't been successful in 256 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: the past, but because their genetics were so close almost identical, uh, 257 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: they thought perhaps it would work. So the doctors didn't 258 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: have much faith that this would actually be carried out. 259 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: Even though you know, they have faith in themselves and 260 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: being able to make the procedure happen, They don't think 261 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: it will the organ itself will take. The great thing 262 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: is that it did work. Both of them survived and 263 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: they went on to live happily ever after, right or 264 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: did they? Yeah? I mean that part. We're kidding on 265 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: that part. No one does that. But they did Okay, yeah, 266 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: they did great. They both recovered at least downer you are, sir, Uh, yeah, 267 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: I guess I'm more what's a what's a word for 268 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: downer and that starts with a B, so we can 269 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: do it like a m benjie bad attitude? Pretty good? No, 270 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: that's terrible. Well that's why you're You're right. You're absolutely right, 271 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: and there's no reason to be down is there? Because 272 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: this worked very well and after this watershed moment, more 273 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: and more successful transplants took place. So today, at least 274 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: in the US and really globally, if you are someone 275 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: with enough money and enough luck and enough opportunity, you 276 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: really can get a second chance at life with a 277 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: new organ. We cannot emphasize how amazing this is and 278 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: how technology is still since I'm gonna try to be 279 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: positive for their podcast, I appreciate it. You know, uh, 280 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 1: we still know that this medical technology continues to evolve 281 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: at a breakneck pace, you know, doing amazing things. If 282 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: a child, for a child born today the day you're 283 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: hearing this, by the time they are eighteen, it is 284 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: quite possible that they will be able to buy uh 285 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: grown organs grown in a lap, not taken from another person, 286 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: or to take possibly organs from genetically modified animals or 287 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: entirely entirely synthetic things. However, we're not there yet. At 288 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: this point, your best, the best and only way uh 289 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: that you can get another organ is by getting it 290 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: from another person. Many people volunteer to donate their own organs, 291 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: like the twin we mentioned earlier, either a kidney or 292 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: you know, you can live with one kidney, like you said, no, 293 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: you can chop a liver almost in half and yeah, 294 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: and will regenerate almost as full size. Or if you 295 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: are a person with the driver's license in the US, 296 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: you are incentivized to be an organ downer. Could you 297 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: get a little discount? And what they do is they 298 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: just say, well, if the worst thing happens, the worst 299 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: thing for you at least, then something great might happen 300 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: for some other people, which is a pretty terrifying thought. 301 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, if you're dead, 302 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: depending on your religious and spiritual beliefs, then hey, who cares, 303 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: somebody else can use it. You can't take him with you, 304 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: you know, and arguably you could say this is a 305 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: form of extending someone's life if you are if a 306 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: piece of you lives on in someone else. Absolutely. The 307 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: pharaohs of Egypt would probably disagree though. I mean they 308 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: had all of their organs pulled out and put into 309 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: jars and preserved their tombs, you know, so that they 310 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: could have them in the after life. And that was 311 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: part of the that was part of the belief system 312 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: at the time, you know. And there there's still some 313 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: there's still some religions and belief systems that do not 314 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: allow for oregan donation. Like the Roma don't practice it 315 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: because they believe you need your physical body and all 316 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: its components for at least the first year, because you 317 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: have to retrace your steps. And now we know not 318 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: now we know that this this stuff does work. It 319 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: gives the average person a chance to be a hero, 320 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: and should be quite candid, this is a situation where 321 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: people need heroes. Between two thousand and eight, there were 322 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: more than thousand living donations. It's donations from somebody who 323 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: gave theory will survive after uh. In two thousand and six, 324 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: nearly forty six percent of organ donors were living donors, 325 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: so that accounts for about one point six percent of 326 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: all organs donated. So like Matt's Matt, you said, you 327 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: can donate part of your liver and live, and donate 328 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: part of a lung, part of your pank is, you 329 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: can donate a whole kidney or part of your intestines. 330 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: You do have to be in pretty darn good health 331 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: to make a donation like this. Oh, I mean, it 332 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: is true that there are only a few prohibitive factors 333 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,719 Speaker 1: that could stop you certain diseases, being HIV positive or 334 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: something like that. Um, but you know, still, I don't 335 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: think anyone would want my liver, probably, Ben, Do we 336 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: have a stat about how often direct family members are 337 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: the ones that are doing this donation, because that would 338 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: just seems to me that would sure save a lot 339 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: of this this process to write these lists and the 340 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: waiting list of search for compatibility. Well, we don't have 341 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: that exactly, but we do know according to the American 342 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: Transplant Foundation that of about five thousand living donations that 343 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: occur that they watched, only one in four of the 344 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: donors was not biologically related to the recipient, at least 345 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: from their perspective. Interesting, it's not it's not legal to 346 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: buy or sell organs here in the US for transplant, 347 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: but it is legal to buy and sell them for 348 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: research purposes. So as long as you say, well, sorry, 349 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: uncle Sam, this is not for me. I am doing 350 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: a science project. And I've got a couple more stats 351 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: if you want. According to the Department of Health and 352 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: Human Services, more than two thousand new names are added 353 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: to the national waiting list for organ transplants. And to 354 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: get that's every month and every day the day you're 355 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, Ladies and gentlemen, in the US alone, 356 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: about eighteen people die while waiting for an organ transplant. 357 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: So these people, these voluntary donors, living or dead, are 358 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: doing um terrific, wonderful and much needed work, and we 359 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: need more. But here's the thing, not all of these 360 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: donors are volunteers. As it turns out, quite a few 361 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: of them are victims. And we'll get more into that 362 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: after we take a quick break. So, as you can 363 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: tell from the statistics we covered earlier everything that we've 364 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: talked about thus far, the need for organs far outweighs 365 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: the supply for organs. What happens then there is a 366 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: basically a gulf that needs to be filled, and as 367 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 1: we know, when there's money to be made, people are 368 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: gonna come along and fill that gulf. Yeah, when's when 369 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 1: supply demand don't meet, there's gonna be profit. And uh, 370 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: that's what we see, and the question becomes existential. You 371 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: know what I mean is this is not well, I 372 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: steal a Selca or an Alantra from someone because I 373 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: want a Selca or Atlanta or God forbid a Honda Odyssey, 374 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: which is not worth it. Uh, this is a question 375 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: of survival. If you are sitting next to someone listening 376 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: to this, and you're close to that person, look at 377 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: each other, what would you do to keep them alive? 378 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: Would you donate your kidney? If given the opportunity, would 379 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: you find them a heart? The average heart will beat 380 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: approximately two point five billion times in the course of 381 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: an average person's life. So now you need to start 382 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: thinking about the age of this heart you would procure, 383 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: because honestly, you'll get more mileage the younger that transplant 384 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: source is. Well, it's true. Unfortunately, it's true, and let's 385 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: be honest. This is just my per opinion here. Some 386 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: of the results of this come about because the American 387 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: medical system is a joke without a punchline. People are 388 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: dying due to um, due to a phenomenally byzantine system 389 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: of jacked up prices for operations and medicines that would 390 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: be affordable in many other countries. This is again that 391 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: is just my opinion, but they're there are numerous facts 392 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: that point to um that that point to a very 393 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,959 Speaker 1: poor performance on the part of the US medical system 394 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: in comparison to the rest of the developed world. I mean, 395 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: if we are considering the entire population, we're only considering 396 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: the people who can pay the price tag, then the 397 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: US medical system is the best in the world. Look 398 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: at the examples. You see if people that you know 399 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: are in the hospital for three or four days and 400 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: then their insurance gets cut off or like you know, 401 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: the it maxes out and they're left with like a 402 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollar bill for being in the hospital for 403 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 1: a few days. It's just so they can breathe, of course, right, 404 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: and then be in debt for the rest of their 405 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,959 Speaker 1: lives or bankrupt. Right. So this I mean, and that 406 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: may be is a sub I know, it's a touch 407 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: of one for a lot of people. So that will 408 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 1: perhaps be a subject of a future show. I don't 409 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: know what you guys think, And of course we can 410 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: anticipate the arguments people say, well, medical care is not free. 411 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: That is true, and that's something we can explore in 412 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: a future episode. Right now, in the case of kidneys, 413 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: which are by far one of the most common organs 414 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: transplant donated harvested traffic, only seventeen of the annual demand 415 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: is being met, and due to again skyrocketing medical cost, 416 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: the vast majority of US citizens have virtually no way 417 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: of affording a living donor. So, make no mistake, legal 418 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: organ transplants, like many other operations, are overwhelmingly out of 419 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: the reach of a lot of people. Not to mention, 420 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: maybe you're just so far down the list, it's just 421 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: the time. This is not on your side. People will 422 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: do desperate things in times of this kind of stress. Yeah, 423 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: that's a really good point, because even if we're talking 424 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: about people who have enough capital or income to to 425 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: have the best medical care in the world right and 426 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: maybe survive as long as they can on the list, 427 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: then there's some things you know you just can't legally buy. 428 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: So imagine, imagine Matt that you are a multimillionaire, but dope, 429 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: but you can't you can't afford this legal avenue, and 430 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: that leaves you with two options. Yeah, I guess I 431 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: would die or I would find a way to get one. 432 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: Guess which one people tend to choose. I'm guessing they 433 00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: just take kidneys. According to the u N, there are 434 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: three broad categories of organ trafficking. Number one our cases 435 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: involving traffickers that force or actually deceive victims into giving 436 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: up an organ. Example might be persons kidnapped, the organ 437 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: is harvested, or or the this this is the one 438 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: that everyone knows from movies, right. You meet a charming stranger, 439 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,479 Speaker 1: a great cool guy or girl or group of people, 440 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: and you party a little harder than you intended, and 441 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: the next thing you know, yeah, you wake up in 442 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: a tub of ice in the hotel and there's some 443 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: staples on your side that's shilling. Um. Well, I talked 444 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: to you guys about this before the show. The movie 445 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: Sympathy from Mr. Vengeance. I think this is a it's 446 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: a really really dark movie. It's beautifully made them but 447 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: for kids, but it involves this very thing, um and 448 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: it points to some of the conditions that might lead 449 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: someone to you enter into and even an agreement with 450 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: these type of folks. Where one of the main characters 451 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: has a sister who needs I believe it's a kidney, 452 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: and she's on this waiting list, but it's not working 453 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: out and it's taking too long and she's not doing well. 454 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: So the main character UM finds these gangsters and agrees 455 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: with them, like, Okay, I'm gonna you're gonna take out 456 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: my kidney and we're going to do the operation. Instead, 457 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: they knock him out, take his kidney and his money, 458 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: and disappear. Right, And this this is common enough to 459 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: be a trope in a lot of fiction as far 460 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: as how often it actually happens that way in real life, 461 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: it's it's tough to fresh proof. But that's not the 462 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: only case. You said there are three categories, right, So 463 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: the second category involves cases where victims formally or informally 464 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: agree to sell an organ and then are cheated out 465 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: of money. So the thing for the film is almost 466 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: a combination of the two. Are then cheated out of 467 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: the money or paid less than promised and threatened, um, 468 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: you know totally, you'll take what we give you exactly. 469 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: You're lucky to leave with your life. Yeah, I mean 470 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: that's the thing. These are um opportunistic, manipulative folks that 471 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: are that are doing these things. They are finding people 472 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: in their time of need, their time of most desperation, 473 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: and you know, turning the screws on the criminals. Yeah. Well, 474 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: and sometimes it even does happen voluntarily where someone will 475 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: fly to Turkey or something to give their their kidney 476 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: four or five thousand dollars you know, four ten thousand 477 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: dollars US. Meanwhile, the person who is taking the kidney 478 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: is going to make ten times that, twenty times that. Yeah, 479 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: And as as as problematic as Ben said, as as 480 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: are a medical system is at least you do have 481 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: some assurances and you know everything's documented and you know 482 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: nothing like that would ever happen, and hopefully your chances 483 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: of survival are much higher because it's cleaner and they're 484 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: they're better standards for care. But there's there's another thing 485 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: you have to say here. We I don't want to 486 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: jump I have too far other than to say, there 487 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: is a vast criminal element to this, and this is 488 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: something that happens. Whenever something is illegal and people are 489 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: going to do there will be as you said, no 490 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: opportunistic people involved. Imagine having a gambling debt. You're in 491 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: over your head, you have no hope of paying this 492 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: off within the time allotted to you. And then well, no, 493 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: let's say have a gambling debt to you. Let's say, 494 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: what's a massive amount of money to oh for gambling? 495 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: One million dollars? Okay, So I had a wild night 496 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,479 Speaker 1: in Macau and now I owe you, the uh, the 497 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: shadowy leader of the underworld, one million dollars. And you 498 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: told me I have forty eight hours our forty seven 499 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: and I'm dragged, you know, into whatever palatial place you have, uh. 500 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: And and then you make it very clear that you're 501 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: you're fine with killing me, but but you give me 502 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: a chance. You tell me I can give up, you know, 503 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: my kidney or part of my lung or my liver. 504 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: And of course people are going to say yes to 505 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: something like that. It's horrific, but they will. And then 506 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: there's the third case, which to me is one of 507 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: the saddest I have to say, guys, in this example, 508 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: it would be it would make a lot more sense 509 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: if it was maybe a hundred thousand dollars, because they 510 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: would make that if you own a million dollars, Yeah, 511 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: they would just kill me and take and harvest because 512 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: they could. They could pretty much make that from your 513 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: entire body. I would go to the chop shop. Yikes, 514 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: don't do it. No, don't do it. I mean I've 515 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: never started gambling. I've never gambled, and I don't intend 516 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: to start now because I am frightened by this scenario. No, 517 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: it's true. I mean even you know, I I've played 518 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: some slots here and there, but saying don't think I 519 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: could ever, you know, go down that. I thought you 520 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: were about to say, No, it's true. I guess I 521 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: would have to do that. Well, you know, when faced 522 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: with that situation, and I have to take care of 523 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: my investment. Oh yeah, Ice Cold, I respect you though. 524 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: Number three, this is perhaps one of the saddests. Yes. 525 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: The third example is when a vulnerable person receives treatment 526 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: for some ailment. Perhaps it's real, perhaps it's not only 527 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: to find when they come out of surgery or whatever 528 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: procedure they went through, they find that one or more 529 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: of their organs have been removed during the operation, and 530 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: it ranges from what organs are taken in this procedure um. 531 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: And this is one of the more terrifying. I mean, 532 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: these are all terrifying, but this one to me, trusting 533 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: someone going into a surgery or something like that, only 534 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: to find that something completely different has happened. Yikes. We're 535 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: talking about completely disenfranchised people that have no record, migrant workers, 536 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: homeless people, the impoverished, the illiterate. They are just easy 537 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: targets for these folks who want to prey on the 538 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: fact that they have no one to protect them. And 539 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,919 Speaker 1: they can be any age. It can be any you know, creed, race, ethnicity, 540 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: whatever sort of label you want to attach to an 541 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: example of the human species, as long as they got 542 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: the goods and by that I mean kidneys, livers, any 543 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: of these organs that are you know, ultimately pretty easy 544 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: to remove in a bench, which is horrifying in and 545 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: of itself, especially when you consider that, you know, these 546 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: are not done in sanitary conditions, These are not done 547 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: in clean rooms, you know, well, yeah, And the fact 548 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: that they could be removed and then you can still 549 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: live depending on how you were treated after and what 550 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: type of process they took to actually remove it and 551 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: then fix you up, which is that to me is awful. 552 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: Can imagine living after that just happening to you. The 553 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: PTSD that you would experience in your life, I personally 554 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: would be thrilled to be alive. Sure, because think of 555 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: the time and money you save if you're working with 556 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: volume on sutures, on cleaning up. You know, are you saying, 557 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm trying to just figure out why it's 558 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: in their best interest to leave these people alive in 559 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: the first place. I think that a lot of it 560 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: is because it is a transaction, you know. So if 561 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: it's a transaction, then it's ultimately a business. And if 562 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: the business model is uh, you know, if you established consistency, 563 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: people will only come back to you or only go 564 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: pay you if they know they're going to live. So 565 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: if we're around the street turns out that you just 566 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: kill people and take their organs, which we do have 567 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: cases of that, then people aren't going to go to 568 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: you with their gambling debts or their um blood money 569 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: of one sort or another. And and okay, so we 570 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:11,280 Speaker 1: said earlier that kidneys make up of this illegal organ trade. 571 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: But do you know why it's It's not just because 572 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: you can take one and sell, although I think that's 573 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: a huge part of it. It's also because of the 574 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 1: rising rates of diabetes, high blood pressure, heart problems and 575 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: such in across the globe. So you need those the 576 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,760 Speaker 1: filtration system that are the kidneys which are familing across 577 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: the board. And for everyone who might think this is 578 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: this is a strange thing for us to cover, we 579 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: would argue that this is an example of not one, 580 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:48,280 Speaker 1: but multiple international conspiracies, not theories. And again, a conspiracy 581 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: just means people working together in secret toward a common goal. 582 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 1: Organized crime necessitates conspiracies. This involves recruiters, people who transport 583 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: the pay an underground medical staff, middleman contractors, buyers, and 584 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:09,439 Speaker 1: banks that store the organs because remember, organs don't keep 585 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: and a lot of people throughout the history of organ 586 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: transplants have died because an organ was pulled from a 587 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: cadaver that have been dead for hours. You know. So 588 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: this stuff is on ice and and on the good side, 589 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: on the legal side, there's this amazing logistics chain of 590 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: how to of how people move an oregan and keep 591 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: it stored on ice across the country or across the 592 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: ocean to save someone's life. And this can be a 593 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 1: good thing, It can be a good thing for the 594 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: for the law side. The problem is, because these networks 595 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,839 Speaker 1: are so large, when they get exposed, it will a 596 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: lot of times be one arm or one one section 597 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,839 Speaker 1: of a network, and you never really get to see 598 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,800 Speaker 1: the larger picture because you know, when you're operating underground 599 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: like this, you just pick up shop and get out 600 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: of there if there isn't a good paper trail. Right, yeah, 601 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: So let's talk about some facts about organ trafficking. So 602 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: I'll start with one. Organ trafficking accounts for five to 603 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: ten percent of all kidney transplants worldwide. Mind blowing to me. 604 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: That's like saying, uh, illegal car sales account for ten 605 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: percent of all cars purchased in you know, in the US, 606 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,319 Speaker 1: or you just wouldn't ever associate that. I don't know. 607 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: And according to the WHO, the World Health Organization, the 608 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: illegal trade and kidneys has risen to a level that 609 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: an estimated ten thousand black market operations involving purchased human 610 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: organs now take place every year. And according to a 611 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: couple of organizations organ Failure Solutions, Organs Watch and e 612 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: s o T, the TIP topical organ donor as a 613 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: male about twenty eight point nine, let's say, twenty nine 614 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: years old, with an annual income of four hundred and 615 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: eighty dollars, while the typical recipient is a male of 616 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,280 Speaker 1: about forty eight point one years old with an annual 617 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: income of fifty three thousand dollars. So the discrepancy there 618 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: between the donor and the recipient is pretty telling. And 619 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 1: organs aren't just used for transplants. There's a demand for 620 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: illicit experimentation from unethical scientists. Think of these as the 621 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: modern version of resurrection men, resive robbers, threat resurrection. Then 622 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: we're grave robbers, especially in during a time when it 623 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:02,800 Speaker 1: was legal to experiment on cadavers for med schools and stuff, 624 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: but it was illegal to procure the bodies. So that's 625 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 1: a chilling but not entirely inaccurate comparison. And then of 626 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: course there are there are other body parts such as 627 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: bones or genitalia that are used for UH magical rituals, 628 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: and the profit margins here can be outrageous. In July 629 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: of two thousand nine, Levy its Ok Rosenbaum was arrested 630 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn for conspiring to arrange the sale of an 631 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,239 Speaker 1: Israeli citizens kidney to an undercover FBI agent for a 632 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty thousand dollars. He said he'd been selling 633 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: kidneys for ten years underground. He paid ten thousand for 634 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: a kidney and sold it for a hundred and sixty thousand, 635 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 1: And there are an unsettling number of examples of at 636 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: least parts of networks that have been exposed to. Al 637 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 1: Jazeera really recently put out a story, i think in February, 638 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: of about a small syndicate in Indonesia in this place 639 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: called Java, West Java, where this really small village that 640 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,839 Speaker 1: had a population of thirty people uh a large number 641 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,280 Speaker 1: of them sold their kidneys or for around five thousand 642 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: dollars each um, and it was being run out of 643 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 1: a state hospital. It really crazy stuff like that, just 644 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: some bad people who are working with a couple other 645 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: bad people inside a state run organization. A story from 646 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: The Guardian in two thousand nine discussed how some some 647 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: pathologists in Israel we're harvesting organs from Palestinians and several 648 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: others thousand and ninety nineties. It has ended officially at least, 649 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: which is nice. And if you search for this kind 650 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 1: of the stuff, just just put Oregon Harvesting Network into 651 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: you know, Google, and then click on the news column 652 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,879 Speaker 1: and just go back, and it's prevalent. There's a lot 653 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,800 Speaker 1: of it, and in neither of the cases that met 654 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 1: just mentioned. Neither in Indonesia nor in Israel were these 655 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: state sanctioned things. These were underground cabals operating and then 656 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 1: they were eventually exposed. And that's almost always how it is, 657 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: except in the People's Republic of China and the People's 658 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: Republic of China, you can see numerous accusations that say 659 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: the government itself is harvesting organs from executive prisoners, or, 660 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: as claimed in a PBS documentary from two thousand fifteen, 661 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:42,759 Speaker 1: that the government is actually collecting organs from live prisoners 662 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: or practitioners of a spiritual group UH, a spiritual belief 663 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:53,600 Speaker 1: system called Follongong. The idea here is that China is 664 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,839 Speaker 1: arbitrarily imprisoning this minority religious group and then torturing them, 665 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: killing them, selling or organs, getting rich off what's called 666 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: transplant tourism. Yep. And and again you can find it 667 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: in the US, you can find it in Brazil and 668 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: South Africa. It's this practice is occurring all over the globe. 669 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 1: So you guys, why is this still going on? Why 670 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 1: is this still so prevalent? I would say there's several reasons. 671 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: One of the big ones would be UH demand and 672 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 1: if we're saying demand, what we need to look at 673 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 1: will be the precipitous rise of health conditions in the 674 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 1: you know what, in the world entire because there's this 675 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: big stereotype of terribly unhealthy Americans, right Uh, that stereotype 676 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,800 Speaker 1: has some truth in it. One in nine or twenty 677 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,879 Speaker 1: six million Americans have kidney disease and most probably don't 678 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:56,759 Speaker 1: know it. But obesity and diabetes and related things are 679 00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 1: on the rise in the developing world as well, So 680 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: there are more people with worse parts. And I think 681 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: as long as that situation continues until we can grow 682 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: stuff in a vat, until we can all live a 683 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: more healthy lifestyle. And I am not volunteering, by the way, 684 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: because I'm setting my ways and they are terrible until 685 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,640 Speaker 1: we can iron man or chaine e up some some 686 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 1: suitable technological or mechanical replacement. The problem, the problem with 687 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: this stuff been is that it's still going to favor 688 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 1: those that are wealthy because it will cost money. It's 689 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,400 Speaker 1: a service either. You know, it's not easy to remove 690 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: an oregon and put it back in, for sure, And 691 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,360 Speaker 1: as we start to develop, you know, more high tech 692 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: ways of doing this, whether it's lab grown or what 693 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: have you. It's gonna be like these hypothetical situations with 694 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: life extension technology. Who is that going to be for 695 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 1: it's going to be four or the upper class, which 696 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,840 Speaker 1: is the class that is basically in control. That's a 697 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:11,240 Speaker 1: harrowing point because on the surface, the legal oregan trade, 698 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,240 Speaker 1: at least if you if you look at the rules 699 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 1: or the guidelines for the list, they say that this 700 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,880 Speaker 1: a person's placement on the list is evaluated by factors 701 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:26,320 Speaker 1: that are entirely biologically related severity of illness, time spent waiting, 702 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,880 Speaker 1: blood type, match potential, and uh. At least according to 703 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,440 Speaker 1: American Transplant Foundation, income, race, and social status are never 704 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 1: taken into account in the allocation process, which sounds like 705 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 1: a beautiful thing until you take into account means to 706 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,920 Speaker 1: move yourself up on that list that aren't necessarily proven, 707 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 1: but you know, colluding with someone who controls the list, 708 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,839 Speaker 1: or staying or or you know, the means to participate 709 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 1: in this illegal market, which is making hundreds of millions, 710 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of dollars minimum, probably more than an 711 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:18,319 Speaker 1: estimated billion. And also also it's tough to find these 712 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:23,799 Speaker 1: sorts of rings and and wipe them out entirely. You know, 713 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 1: people's survival instinct is good. The money it's just so profitable, right, 714 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 1: and these are people often operating across international boundaries. So 715 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:44,120 Speaker 1: at this point at that at this point, regardless of 716 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 1: the various solutions to the various causes for this sort 717 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: of situation, it just that it doesn't seem to be 718 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,960 Speaker 1: going away. This is really tough because in a lot 719 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,360 Speaker 1: of the black markets that we've looked at in the past, 720 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: it seems as though the legalization whatever product that is 721 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 1: being sold can kind of solve that black market because 722 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,799 Speaker 1: it then becomes a free market thing, right, But with 723 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:15,719 Speaker 1: this situation, you can't really legalize just the voluntary donation 724 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: and receiving of organs from other humans, at least I 725 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,400 Speaker 1: can't for see away. Well, it's just a lot is 726 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,600 Speaker 1: left up to chance. When you go the legal route, 727 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,600 Speaker 1: and it almost seems like the illegal route you might 728 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 1: be more likely to at least have the perception that 729 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,799 Speaker 1: you're going to get what you need, you know, with 730 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,040 Speaker 1: about having to jump through as many hoops or wait 731 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,080 Speaker 1: as long, and you know, have less uncertainty, and you 732 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:45,359 Speaker 1: could even hypothetically higher an entire network, so you could 733 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,560 Speaker 1: get the level of care that you would expect from 734 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:54,319 Speaker 1: a you know, from a top notch hospital. If you 735 00:47:54,480 --> 00:48:00,440 Speaker 1: just by a doctor and her his services for this 736 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 1: one thing, if you just contracted out, it would cost 737 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,480 Speaker 1: an enormous amount of money. But if a new kidney 738 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:11,520 Speaker 1: gives you another nine years of life, a lot of 739 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,560 Speaker 1: people would see that as a as a fair trade, 740 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 1: you know. And I'm sure that a lot of the 741 00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 1: people who are participating in this illegal oregan trafficking are 742 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: also doing it without of desperation and are not monstrous people, 743 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:30,120 Speaker 1: you know, they they are. Possibly maybe it's more like 744 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:34,799 Speaker 1: a matchmaking thing where they meet someone who wants money 745 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 1: and they have the money and they say, okay, here, 746 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,040 Speaker 1: let's make a deal. Maybe it is. It may well 747 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,200 Speaker 1: be consentual many times, but also many times it is not. Yeah, 748 00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,600 Speaker 1: because we also we've seen that this matches up with 749 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 1: the act of human trafficking as well, right, I mean, 750 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:58,680 Speaker 1: where people will be treated like cattle and taken to 751 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 1: another place where this happened to them. Uh. It's been 752 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,680 Speaker 1: reported on a lot by the u N how closely 753 00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:08,359 Speaker 1: linked human trafficking and organ trafficking is, so you know 754 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:13,480 Speaker 1: it it's it's weird how far ranging this this process 755 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,040 Speaker 1: or how how much it encompasses. It's also one of 756 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,080 Speaker 1: these kind of devil's bargain scenarios where you don't really 757 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:24,120 Speaker 1: know the cost, the actual cost of what you're buying. 758 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: You know you you're paying money, and maybe you you 759 00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:28,880 Speaker 1: can afford it. And maybe you are a wealthy person 760 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,880 Speaker 1: that has decided to go this route because of the 761 00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: hoops required to get on a legal list to get 762 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,040 Speaker 1: you know, what you need when you need it. So 763 00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,319 Speaker 1: maybe you decided to go this route because you feel 764 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,800 Speaker 1: like you can make it happen quicker for yourself or 765 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:47,840 Speaker 1: a loved one. But you don't know who was manipulated, 766 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,080 Speaker 1: who was taking advantage of to get that for you, 767 00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,759 Speaker 1: So you are becoming part of this problem by you know, 768 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:59,719 Speaker 1: feeding it. M Yeah, absolutely agree this. Okay, let's end 769 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 1: on an up note if we can. I know this 770 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 1: has been a you know, I took that Debbi Downer 771 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:09,040 Speaker 1: advice to heart, so I'm trying to see some silver linings. 772 00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:16,279 Speaker 1: There is a huge financial incentive now for medical technologists 773 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:21,239 Speaker 1: and for inventors to create and geneticist as well, to 774 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:26,000 Speaker 1: create some sort of viable alternative because even if the 775 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:32,200 Speaker 1: illegal organ trafficking networks expand and expand even more so 776 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:37,839 Speaker 1: in size. We're at a point where taking things from 777 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,280 Speaker 1: one human and putting them in another is probably not enough. 778 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:43,759 Speaker 1: So what we're going to need to do as a 779 00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,920 Speaker 1: species is to create a viable alternative, and people are 780 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:52,319 Speaker 1: working around the clock to do so. So this situation 781 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:57,279 Speaker 1: may become eventually a thing of the past. You know, eventually, 782 00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:03,480 Speaker 1: hopefully on your aldren and your grandchildren will hear about 783 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,680 Speaker 1: this age in medicine and treat it with the same 784 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:12,160 Speaker 1: incredulity that we used to treat uh. Stories of a 785 00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,439 Speaker 1: world before germ theory, they used to take organs out 786 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,600 Speaker 1: of one person and put it in another person, and 787 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,719 Speaker 1: they used to use hands to type what Why don't 788 00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,960 Speaker 1: you just think it into your Google? I think it 789 00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:30,000 Speaker 1: is weird to think how long this conversation will last digitally. 790 00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,040 Speaker 1: If the Internet stays around for long enough, people people 791 00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,360 Speaker 1: might actually listen to as ag what it's too scary. 792 00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, we hope that you. We hope that you 793 00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,520 Speaker 1: found this episode worthwhile. Do you have uh, do you 794 00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:50,239 Speaker 1: have any thoughts on organ transplants ethically, physically, biologically? Have 795 00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:54,440 Speaker 1: you ever had an organ transplant or maybe donated one 796 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,960 Speaker 1: of your own. You you want to write to us 797 00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,279 Speaker 1: and tell us about it, we would love to hear. Yep. 798 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,080 Speaker 1: Have you ever made it to the end of the 799 00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:05,400 Speaker 1: Oregon Trail without dying of Dysenterry? I did once, but 800 00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,080 Speaker 1: well I did several times. I played on easy mode 801 00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,359 Speaker 1: and I still lost some people, you monster. One guy 802 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,759 Speaker 1: broke a leg, uh and then died of Dysenterry. Oh man, 803 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,080 Speaker 1: it was rough, just Terry. I think it's like the 804 00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,120 Speaker 1: base level and then there's this other stuff that there's 805 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,480 Speaker 1: like we really had to bring it back there all 806 00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,799 Speaker 1: I think we should. I really just trying to lighten 807 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:29,520 Speaker 1: things up a little bit, guys, this has got pretty 808 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,239 Speaker 1: got pretty pretty dark here. You know. I want to 809 00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,440 Speaker 1: play it again and then name members of our party, 810 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,280 Speaker 1: like after after you guys and some of our listeners. 811 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,680 Speaker 1: But I'm afraid of you know, what am I gonna 812 00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,919 Speaker 1: do if one of you guys doesn't make it over 813 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,200 Speaker 1: the river? You know, we'll Speaking of parties, let's have 814 00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:52,280 Speaker 1: a shout out corner party shut at Corner. Our first 815 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,560 Speaker 1: shout out goes to Dakota, who works at the postal 816 00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,919 Speaker 1: service and listens to our show all delivering mail. That's 817 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,000 Speaker 1: kind of cool. Dakota let us know that watch Mojo 818 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:07,800 Speaker 1: often uses our videos as uh kind of source material 819 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,839 Speaker 1: for their own YouTube channel, which is kind of what 820 00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,560 Speaker 1: we do with other YouTube channels as well. We'll use 821 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:16,399 Speaker 1: references and but we did some checking and they do 822 00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,440 Speaker 1: give us on screen credit with texts, so we're totally 823 00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:24,480 Speaker 1: cool with that. And last thing, he Dakota wanted us 824 00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,719 Speaker 1: to say hello to long John and I don't know 825 00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,040 Speaker 1: who that is, but it's it's Dakota's friend the watch Mojo. 826 00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:32,480 Speaker 1: They also I think he did a list awhile back 827 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:37,640 Speaker 1: where they had different conspiracy type chose and yeah, YouTube 828 00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,440 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories lists. So Ben Boland was and Matt and 829 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,000 Speaker 1: Matt Frederick we were both on that list. We were guys, 830 00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:48,280 Speaker 1: we're all on the list. And next we have Matt 831 00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,319 Speaker 1: s on Twitter. Matt you said, have you considered doing 832 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,400 Speaker 1: an episode on the theory that we are living in 833 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,560 Speaker 1: a simulation? Matt you also sent Matt S. You also 834 00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,880 Speaker 1: sent video of Ella must discussing this topic, which you 835 00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,919 Speaker 1: met f I am sure enjoyed immensely. I did. Yeah, 836 00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,320 Speaker 1: I think I shared it with you guys. Maybe I didn't. 837 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,719 Speaker 1: Maybe we just talked about it. It's the one where 838 00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:14,040 Speaker 1: you're Elam. Musk Is asked a question about simulated universe 839 00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,799 Speaker 1: theory and he basically says, we have a one in 840 00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:22,200 Speaker 1: one billion chance of existing in base reality, which, if 841 00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,799 Speaker 1: you dig into it a little bit, it's a little off. 842 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,080 Speaker 1: His numbers are a little off, but it's still fascinating 843 00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,040 Speaker 1: to think that one of the richest humans on the 844 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,360 Speaker 1: planet believes that. Next one, we have one via Facebook 845 00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,359 Speaker 1: from Corey C. Thanks for keeping me hip to all 846 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,759 Speaker 1: the neat, strange and weird things you guys cover. Then 847 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,360 Speaker 1: we have a little hashtag party here. Hashtag sad douche. 848 00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,880 Speaker 1: Hashtag all Hail our ageless overlord Ben, hashtag bag of Badgers. 849 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,960 Speaker 1: Hashtag the only medal is created with filth. Hashtag give 850 00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:53,240 Speaker 1: him at his boat back hashtag tell Frank I said hi? Yeah? 851 00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,920 Speaker 1: Is this someone that knows Frank? Yeah? You talked about 852 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,759 Speaker 1: Frank a couple of times. Um, I think you even 853 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,160 Speaker 1: mentioned that you should say hi. Have you ever see Franks? 854 00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:02,759 Speaker 1: See Franks say hi to him? He's a great guy. 855 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if this is someone that knows Frank, 856 00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,040 Speaker 1: Like in the real world, Frank does get around. Uh 857 00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:11,600 Speaker 1: maybe there are many Francs, the many faces of Frank, 858 00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:15,000 Speaker 1: the many faces of Frank. And this thus ends our 859 00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:21,719 Speaker 1: shout out corner for today Gosh but never fear. If 860 00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,000 Speaker 1: you would like a shout out from us, we do. 861 00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,120 Speaker 1: We do two or three each episode. If you have 862 00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:30,120 Speaker 1: something you want to say to all the other listeners 863 00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,520 Speaker 1: of the show, then hit us up on Twitter and Facebook, 864 00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,319 Speaker 1: where we are conspiracy stuff. And that's the end of 865 00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:40,200 Speaker 1: this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions 866 00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,719 Speaker 1: about this episode, you can get into contact with us 867 00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,880 Speaker 1: in a number of different ways. One of the best 868 00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:47,719 Speaker 1: is to give us a call. Our number is one 869 00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,680 Speaker 1: eight three three std w y t K. If you 870 00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,520 Speaker 1: don't want to do that, you can send us a 871 00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,000 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart 872 00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,560 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want you to Know 873 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,719 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 874 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,000 Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 875 00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:08,920 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.