WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: How Wildfires Work 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:07.280 Good morning everyone. It's July eleven. What No, it's modern times, 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:11.040 but this dates back to July eleven, and it is 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:13.800 my select pick of the week. How Wildfires Work. This 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.079 one's important. That's why I picked this one. Everybody. Wildfires 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.880 are still happening all over the place every year. It 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.040 seems like they're getting worse and worse because they are. 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.280 So this is a good podcast to educate yourself on 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:28.360 wildfires and how to prevent them, how to fight them, 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:30.720 and how they get started in the first place. So 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:36.720 enjoy How Wildfires Work. Right now, welcome to Stuff you 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:45.479 Should Know from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:50.199 welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:54.360 Chuck Bryant right over there, and this is stuff you 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:59.240 should not That was my shatner. I told you I 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.120 worked with him think on a podcast. Right, he was 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.720 puffy and stuffed in a suit. He's nice though, Right, 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.800 he was super nice. And heck, I uh, every time 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:11.480 I'm wearing wear a suit, I'm puffy and stuffed in 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:16.440 a suit. So I'm poured into my suits, poured in liquid. 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:22.039 That's great. So, and that's absolutely not true. By the way, 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:27.120 Chuck yes, Um, I have a couple of stories for you. 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.560 I have a specific story for you. But you have 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.520 this too, right, did I give you this? Yes? Okay? 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:38.120 So um in uh two thousand two, Right, there is 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.440 a guy who worked for the Bureau of Indian Affairs 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:47.000 and he was a firefighter for them. Right. He went 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:54.800 onto the Arizona Apache Reservation and he started a wildfire intentionally. Okay, 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.000 So he's an arsonist. Yes, he's not an arsonist for 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.760 fun or because he's crazy? Um? Or what was it? Uh? 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.320 He was curious, highly curious. Remember that was a trade, 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:11.000 that was trade curiosity setting fires. Um. He wanted work, 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.720 all right. Leonard Greg Leonard Greg was his name. Um. 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:20.359 He uh set this fire and unbeknownst to him, at 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:25.400 the same time you do. There's a woman, um, who 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:29.639 had run out of gas not too far away, right, um, 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:33.560 And she saw that there was a news helicopter covering 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.440 the fire that Leonard Greg had just said. She didn't 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.120 know about either, but she didn't feel like walking, or 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:41.440 she felt like she couldn't walk, so she set a 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.640 fire to try to get the attention of the news 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.400 helicopter so that it would come rescue her. So she 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.280 didn't have to walk to go get gas. That's pretty 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.880 amazingly awful. So, um, I guess her last name was 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:59.639 chet is Key. Because the Rodeo Fire, which is what 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:03.160 they all, the fire that Leonard Gregg's started, collided with 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:09.760 the Cherisky fire, and um, it was a conflagration. Ultimately 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:15.240 four hundred and sixties seven thousand acres burned, including four 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.160 and it was the largest fire in Arizona's history. And 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.640 this is two thousand two. So Greg, I don't know 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.800 what happened to the woman, but Greg was found guilty 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.880 of arson since the ten years in order to pay 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.840 twenty eight million dollars, which as an occasional firefighter for 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.760 the Bureau of Indian Affairs, I would imagine he didn't have. Yeah, 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.400 when that never happens. You always see that, like their 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:38.360 awards so and so this, and they just don't pay. 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:42.520 It's just like a symbolic award. I guess right, you'll 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:44.840 know you'll never make more than fifty of your wages 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.760 again kind of thing. Yeah, But what's crazy is not 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.800 just that this lady set this fire because she wanted 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.120 to get the attention of a news copter, or that 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.960 this guy set a fire because of a desire to 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.720 get work to put the fire out. Yeah, but because 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.880 they're not the only people who have done stupid stuff 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.360 like this. They follow in a long, grand tradition of 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:13.080 people who have set wildfires for all sorts of different reasons, 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:15.920 and a lot of them to get work. Yeah, you 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.160 have a list here. And of course we're not we're 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.040 going to praise the firefighters, not like we're saying a 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.440 lot of these firefighters starting fires. But it does happen 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.440 more than you would think. I imagine we'll probably throw 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.320 some more out later on. But first, chuckers, right, let's 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:36.400 get to wildfires, how they work, what affects them. The 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.440 fire triangle. Yeah, we should probably start with the fire 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:45.880 triangle because it relates to not just forest fires or wildfires, 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:51.599 but all fires. All fire Josh requires three things. Um 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:55.720 fuel obviously to burn air to get oxygen to the fire, 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.320 so you know that we all knows. We all know 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.640 that makes the fire burn hot and bigger. And then 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.640 the heat source to bring the fuel to the ignition 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:08.520 temperature to begin with. And they call that the fire 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:12.120 triangle and the goal of a wild firefighter, and I 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:16.320 guess probably more so a wild firefighter is to remove 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.159 one of those three components from the scene, and that 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.520 will give them a better chance of extinguishing the fire. Yeah, 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.520 if you can bring the temperature down, or starve the 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:28.839 fire of oxygen something, or get rid of the fuel. Yeah, 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:31.479 all three of those things have to exist. And the 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:33.359 reason why, Like, if you look at wood as a 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:37.800 fuel would as it pertains to fire is just a 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:42.160 um solid store of hydrocarbons that are released when the 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.880 wood is heated to the flash point, to the flash 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.640 point um, and those hydrocarbons at the flash point bind 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:51.960 with oxygen in the air and it combusts thanks to 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.640 the spark thanks to the heat. Yeah, and the flash point. 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.320 Everything has a flashpoint. Apparently everything will burst into flames 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.800 at some point. Like Ferret Hype four fifty one is 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.440 supposed to be the flash point of books. Yes, right, yes, 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:08.640 which is very cool. Title woods flash point is um 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.960 five hundred and seventy seventy two degrees fahrenheit three hundred 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:16.120 if you're into celsius, if you're into that kind of thing, 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:21.640 and uh, that's when would will burst into flames. Yes. Um, 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.360 I've got a couple of just quick stats here about 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.400 five million acres of woodland burn every year in the 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.719 United States, and I got a different set that it 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:31.680 was one point two million. But then I looked I 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.200 saw that that sat Yeah, I looked at the past 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:38.120 decade five point nine million, five point to nine point three, 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.159 nine point eight, eight point six eight four or seven 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.000 three and seven, So that's about five. So I trust 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.920 that one. And that is dude. In two thousand nine, 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:49.800 I'm sorry, let's go to two thousand and six, there 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:55.680 were ninety six thousand three five fires wildfires in the US. 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.440 It's a lot of wildfires, isn't that crazy? And what's 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:03.599 crazy is that four So those are started by human activity? Yeah, 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.240 a little more than four fasts And that's nuts. Like, 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.240 I mean, there's a whole thing called lightning season, right 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:13.040 that when combined with this, um, this type of weather 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:16.040 called fire weather, which is very very dry, maybe drought 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:20.320 like conditions UM during warm summer months when it's very 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.560 hot out um. And all it takes is like apparently 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:28.040 like a train wheel causing a spark off of off 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.480 of the rail into some tinder and then bayam, you've 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:36.920 got a wildfire. UM. But even all those uh, don't 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.440 account for more than a fifth of wildfires. The rest 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.160 are like people throwing cigarettes out or looking for work 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:47.080 is firefighters, or not putting out their fire when they're camping. Yes, 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:49.320 that's a big one to um. I have another couple 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.920 of stats from FEMA. There are total there are a 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:58.120 hundred and seventies six thousand intentionally set outdoor fires every 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.640 year in the United States. And the lot of those 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.840 I think, uh, they're prescribed burns, right. No, no, no, 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.920 that that's like people acts of arson. Yeah, but it's uh, 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:10.960 only you know a certain amount of those are wild 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:15.760 I think sixty three are outdoor fires vegetation fires. So 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:21.240 the others are like trash fires, rubbish fires. Yeah, exactly, 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:27.880 all of them make smoky the bear weep. Yeah. True. So, um, 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.840 there's fire weather, there's lightning season four fifths, so fires 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.360 are started by humans more than four fifths, he said. 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:39.520 We know about the fire triangle, right, so once combustion 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:45.040 is started from whatever the sources, there's a lot of factors. Well, no, 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:51.520 not necessarily. There's three large factors that combine too. I 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.400 guess give us an idea of what's going to happen 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:56.959 with this forest fire? Right now? Are these are these 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.800 fuel characteristics are like how facet will spread. No, it's fuel, weather, 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.040 and topography. Those are the big three. And then each 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:07.040 of those kind of has a few subcategories. But the 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.400 but fuel, the amount, in the type of fuel, the 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.920 the type of weather that that's going on, like is 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:16.000 it fire weather is it not? And in topography the 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.600 lay of the land, like if it's a lake, that's 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:23.080 not good topography for a forest fire. And I'm going 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:25.600 to use forest fire and wildfire interchangeably. I didn't see 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:27.440 anything that said that they're not one and the same. 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:29.720 Well they are today at least forest fire just kind 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.760 of rolls off the tongue a little more for me. Yeah, 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.360 my thick tongue. Law said wildfire, And I keep saying 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.240 wild flower to Jerry, is it wildflower or wide fire? Ye? 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.680 Wide fire? I wanna go forest fire could be a 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:48.840 wide fire, that's true. Huh uh. So fuel uh you 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.280 need a fuel obviously to get the wildfire burning. In 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.440 what they call the they call it a fuel load 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.520 is the amount and it's a measured amount of fuel 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.800 available per unit area and it's usually tons per acre. 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.280 So they there they can actually they're good enough to 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.640 guestimate that you like the biomass of like all this 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:10.959 dry grass. Yeah, like they know, like, man, this is 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:12.800 gonna be a bad one because we've got to you know, 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.320 I don't have any numbers, but whatever fuel load in 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.560 this area of the Colorado National Forest. And what's interesting 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.640 is is, um, you would think that the fuel load 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:24.760 if if you do it in weight, because it's tons 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:28.040 per acre, right, that depending on the type of fuel, 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.559 like if it's grass, if it's lighter, that it's going 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:35.280 to burn more quickly because it has less of water. Yeah, right, true, 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.520 because that's a characteristic of the type of fuel, is 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.319 how how much moisture it has in it. Yeah. And 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.960 the density like twigs obviously will burn faster for two reasons. 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.480 One is because there's it's not as densely packed, because 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.360 which will give it more oxygen. Yeah, there's less surface area. Yeah. 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.199 And the second is it's smaller and it dries out 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.360 more quickly. Yeah, it's not like drying a tree or 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:58.920 a log. It's got to take a long time to 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.600 dry out, right. And then the same goes for density 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.959 with like say tots of pine straw, right if it's 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.319 very densely packed. Um, it's going to retain moisture in 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.640 the middle, which makes it harder to burn. Anytime you've 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:13.040 ever set pine straw on fire, you know, k it 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.160 smokes a lot if you'd throw a big mess on 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.080 your fire, right, But if it's kind of spread out, 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.760 it's uh, it drives more easily and it lets more 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.280 oxygen in between it, which is another need for fuel. Yeah, 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:29.160 and a small fuel material they call flashy fuels. And 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.200 they were like four fingered rings, right, and on a 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:36.960 chemical level, they it varies on how long it takes 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:38.840 these things to ignite as well, beyond the fact that 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.679 it's just like more dense or bigger or more spread out. Right, 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.760 Like when I go camping, I will dry out camp 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.520 firewood beside the fire and you can hear it, says, 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.920 you can see it. You can see the moisture sizzling 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.400 from the log and then you just inch it closer 0:11:54.440 --> 0:12:23.320 and it'll just boom flash point. That's how it happens. Yeah. 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:28.080 Oh another thing, josh um. As the fire pushes forward, 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.640 it's what it's gonna be doing because there's so much 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:34.320 heat associated with it and smoke, it's gonna dry out 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.679 the stuff the fuel in front of it. So by 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.880 the time it gets there potentially, I mean, that's why 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.720 wildfire happens. By the time it gets there, it's already 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:45.720 dry and ripe for the picking. Yeah, and it's just 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:48.320 gonna keep burning and keep burning. There's nothing to stop 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:52.000 it basically, that's right. It feeds itself. Um, something else 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.160 that feeds it. So that was fuel, right. Yeah. The 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:59.239 second category or of factor that really determines how wildfire 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.680 is going to go is um weather. Yeah, big time. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:04.880 And you know when you think of weather, you think, 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.240 I will you know, rain, snow, If it's raining, then 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:09.920 of course the wildfire is going to go out. They 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.920 point that out in here too. But yeah, I thought, yeah, okay, 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:17.520 I thought, um Kevin went to a great Yeah, he definitely. 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.880 He dotted his eye on that one, he did, because yes, obviously, 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:24.040 if it's pouring down rain, it's going to keep everything moist. 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:26.360 Or if it's been raining for a while, humidity helps, 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:30.880 yeah big time. But the aspect of weather, um that 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.360 probably has more of an effect than any is wind 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.439 at ye. So you've got wind outside of the fire, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:40.520 which is going to push it along, push it in 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.120 one direction or another. Well, it's very unpredictable. That's one 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.960 of the things. The winds, especially the dry Santa Ana's 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.400 in California. It's already hot and dry wind, so it 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.200 might as well be fuel, right, Well, I guess it's 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.200 sort of his fuel well traditionally, but it doesn't necessary 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.959 it's not necessarily fuel, but it brings more oxygen to 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.280 the fuel too. Yeah, exactly right. Um, so it pushes 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:05.559 fire along. It's an oxygen delivery system. Wind is um 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:09.480 and it doesn't. There's a guy who's interviewed in this article. 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.360 His names Dr Terry Clark at the National Center for 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:16.480 Atmospheric Research, and he's created this model called coupled Fire 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.800 Atmospheric Dynamics. Pretty cool, and basically what he's doing is 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:25.160 figuring out how fire interacts with the surrounding atmosphere and 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.840 vice versa, because apparently they feed off of each other. Yeah, 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.840 fire can create its own weather system and weather pattern. Yes, 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:33.880 you've seen it before, Like in a really hot fire, 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.520 these little tornadoes come up. It's a firewhirl right. Um, 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:42.080 those can be enormous. It's basically like the heat from 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:47.080 the fire creates a vortex, and the vortex is customarily horizontal, 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.960 but if something gets under it, it can stand upright 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.120 and it becomes a fire tornado that can throw the 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:58.600 whole logs. I can throw a burning tree like a mile. 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:00.880 It's a it's a it's a monster, and it can 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.560 throw it a mile into where there previously was no fire. 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.240 And that's why file uh forest fires are so hard 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:08.880 to fight. One reason why they are because all of 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.400 a sudden, you're fighting in on one front and you've 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.320 seen them to leap from the tree tops, and all 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:15.320 of a sudden, dude, it's on this side of the 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.120 mountain now right. It's scary stuff and treetops specifically, by 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.560 the way, that's a that's a type of fire onto itself. 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.880 It's that's that's a crown fire, is what it's called. 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:28.440 That's right. Um, there's a these uh fire whirls right, 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.960 the fire tornadoes they don't necessarily have to follow that. 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:37.200 That um, that process of starting out horizontally and standing 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.880 up and then moving like a tornado. There's another thing 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:44.200 called a hairpin fireworld. Is this the forward burst? Yeah? 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.120 This is amazing. Basically it's like the fire develops so 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:52.880 much I guess heat, it's vortexas do It's vortices do 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.480 that it shoots forward like a flamethrower. And apparently these 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.800 things are they get up to like sixties six feet wide, 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.480 right yeah, Um, just they can shoot three hundred plus 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.000 feet at a hundred miles an hour, just all of 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.480 a sudden, like the fire just shot a hundred feet 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:13.280 forward at a hundred miles an hour, and then in 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.600 an instant, all of a sudden, your fire is going 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.920 in a if not a different direction and additional direction. 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:23.120 Right because tracking these things, predicting these things, it's we've 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.920 figured out or Dr Terry Clark has figured out, um 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.040 that it's not just the atmospheric conditions, it's the fire 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.800 creating its own stuff, its own wind, yeah, and just 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:35.680 moving from both of these living thing yea. And they 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.080 call that spotting if if they if it tosses embers 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.600 to another spot, they call that spotting. And if it 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.160 if it starts a fire obviously right um. And then 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:49.160 temperature also is another factor. If it's warm out hot, um, 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.960 you know, obviously that's an extra sixty hundred degrees that 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.680 the temper that the sun doesn't have to heat something 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.560 up to. Yeah you know, yeah, you never that's why 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.760 they burned mostly or most hot and wild during the 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.080 day during the afternoon, um, California. Like, I had to 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.359 get used to camping in California because in Georgia, George 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:10.720 is like a rainforest man. It's like there's never any 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.439 fire threat. No. Plus it's so muggy. Yeah, it is 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.000 so muggy all the time. There's no way you couldn't 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:18.320 start a fire if you want to. You can't even 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:22.440 strike a match outside right now. But uh, well, I'm 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.320 just used to camping with a great, big, awesome camp fire. 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.200 But once I headed west into like Colorado and New 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.720 Mexico and California, they have you know, every state park 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:33.720 in national park you go to a national forest says 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.200 have signs that say you know, fire risk um high, 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.200 no fires at all, or you have to apply for 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:44.600 a fire permit with the the camp camp rangers camp 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:48.000 rangers forest rangers. And uh I had to get used 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.520 to either sneaking my fire, which is not right in 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.959 risking fine, or not having one at all, which thinks, 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.560 why don't you just go apply for a permit? Well, 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.639 sometimes it was the fire risk was so high you're 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.480 not to have one at all, And I would still 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:04.440 have one, and I probably shouldn't be saying that, but 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.439 I'm super super careful. I didn't when I when I 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:09.600 was living in the van for a little while. Um, 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.440 I camped on the northern rim of the Grand Canyon 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.320 and I started a fire, but I don't I didn't 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.119 see any signs that said no fire or anything, but 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.399 I wasn't. I could have totally missed it. Probably no 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:22.280 one said anything, though. Yeah, and you know what, I 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.520 was completely irresponsible for doing that. Just let me go 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:26.840 on record and say that it was not the right 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.560 thing to do, even though I was super careful, because 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.880 accidents happened, and I could have easily been that jerk 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.040 that like didn't see the ember get away that started 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.199 a forest fire. So I want to say, I mean, 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:39.720 if you spark from a train's wheel can start a 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.919 forest fire, then yes, very easily a fire that you 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.800 started start a forest fire. That was very good, Chuck, 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:48.200 way to see o A. Well. I didn't want to 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:49.840 sound like I was bragging about it, like, oh, I 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:51.919 was super careful, so it was cool. This is it 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.439 was not cool. There's this guy on Um, yeah, I 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:56.280 didn't take care of breaking Okay, did you ever watch 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.880 Malcolm in the middle. Oh yeah, um, there was this one. 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.280 There was this one scene, um where the mom was 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.240 telling the dad he was he was saying that she 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.760 was giving him grief about the stories that he was 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.000 telling his kids, and he's like their cautionary tales, and 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:13.680 she goes cautionary tales doing him with It was so cool. 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.919 I enjoyed that show for a long time. But like 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:19.920 all shows when it's about kids, when they got a 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.399 little too old, you know, all of a sudden, his 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.520 voice is down. Well no, he he cashed out, like 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.879 right about that time. He was like I'm out. Malcolm himself. 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.920 He was like, I've I've got fifteen Porsches and I'm 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:33.760 very happy. I'm done. Well, yeah, he went on to 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:41.080 his big movie career. Yeah, that's right. Sorry Cranston. Though 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.840 he's uh have a scene breaking bad. But it's supposed 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:48.720 to be amazing, all right. The last thing, Josh is topography. 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.400 That's what we talked about. A steep slope, it's gonna 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:55.480 spread faster, usually spreads uphill. Even though leave it to 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:59.840 Australia to do something weird. Dr Terry Clark says he 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.000 as a case study in Australia, where the fire actually 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:07.040 burned down a sloped mountain, which is pretty unusual. Yes, 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.760 normally it burns up for a couple of reasons. The 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:16.080 ambient wind um usually blows uphill. Um. The steeper the 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:21.400 slope the better because the fire, the smoke and the heat. Well, 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.960 for the fires concerned, it's like, give me a steep 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.600 mountain because the fire would be standing almost upright then, 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.120 and the smoke and the heat coming off the fire 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:35.520 is um really drying out the fuel load ahead. So 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.240 most of the time they burned upward up the mountain, 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.639 and then they reach the crest and they're like, I 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:42.440 should have thought this through because now I have to 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:44.760 go down and I can't ye, which is good for 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:49.719 fighting the fire, not good for the fire um they 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.280 can besides burning all the vegetation, which is can be 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.159 really bad. Uh. It can lead to things like erosion 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:01.159 and mud slides later on because you mess with the 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.199 with the ground like that and it's not stable like 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:05.679 it once was. Yeah, I mean, like the one of 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.960 the roles that roots a root system plays is holding 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.400 the ground in place. And if you burn the tree 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.639 and the roots system out, it's just soil and the 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.280 nice heavy rain comes then and that very thing happened 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:23.840 Josh and storm King Mountain near Glenwood Springs, Colorado, two 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:27.280 thousand acre forest burned and the underbrush burned on the 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:29.879 steep slopes. And two months later they got a lot 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:33.440 of heavy rain and it literally poured tons of mud 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:37.960 and rock onto a stretch of Interstate seventy like engulfing cars, 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.000 sweeping them into the Colorado River, all because of the 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.080 fire months months ago. And we've seen one sides before. 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:47.959 Remember Guatemala. Oh yeah, remember like down the mountain there 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:49.879 was still that path. You could see the where the 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.680 path came tree standing on this village where they'd never 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:55.720 unearthed the people and it was like people's kids were 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.560 running around. Yeah, it was so sad. Where we were 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:01.480 standing was like six ft higher than it once was, right, yeah, alright, 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.920 six at least. I would say that's awful. So, Chuck, 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.600 if you want to put out a fire, well, first 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:09.399 of all, they're beneficial, though we should say that at 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:13.000 times burning the underbrush of a forest can prevent a 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:17.600 larger fire later on, So they do have like prescribed 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:20.600 burns like you were talking about, Chuck, I inadvertently started 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:24.840 a book club by mentioning again recently, have you noticed 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:26.199 a lot of people have been writing and saying like, 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:30.480 thanks man, I'm starting yea, and they're like, what about Yes, 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:33.919 it's another book that's a fake book though, Oh is it? 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:35.800 It's yeah, that's the one where the guys like the 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:40.520 Chinese made it to South America. Mexico wrote article about it, 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:44.240 and I pilloried the guy. Okay, yeah, it's very he 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:49.760 has very shaky, shaky evidence. That's fascinating stuff. But well 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.200 have we not podcasted on that. Let's do it all right? 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:55.440 I read that today and I was like, why haven't 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:57.240 we done this yet? Oh, we can totally do it. Okay. 0:22:57.359 --> 0:22:59.040 I think it took a little while from me for 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:01.440