1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Oh god, oh god, I hate that lady. I really 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: don't like her. I'm actually starting to get attractive. Yeah. 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: Just think we just talked. It just turned around. Yeah, 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: just now it's I mean it. She is a cop. 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: But I think we all remember the Little Wayne classic 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: Mrs Officer. It's like that sort of situation, right, like 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: she's she's caught you, but also she's intrigued and you 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: can't not be yourself and maybe you're gonna fuck in 9 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: the back of that squad car like Little Wayne absolutely didn't. Never, 10 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: never has a song been more clearly alive than Little 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: Wayne's Mrs Officer. Um, this is Behind the Bastards, the 12 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: podcast where we talk about Little Wayne songs with Paul 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: Left Tompkins. I can't believe we got this greenlit. I know. 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: I thought, like, first of all, this is not the 15 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: original idea. This is right before the pitch robertuns it says, 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: change of plans, just follow my lead instead of a bit. 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: It worked. We got fourteen million dollars in funding, so 18 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: we're going to take this to some fun places this year. 19 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: This is better than the gardening podcast we had planned. Yeah, 20 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: this is this is a lot better less Little Wayne 21 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: than the gardening podcast. I would totally listen to a 22 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: gardening podcast with the two of you. Just say that 23 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: sounds like a really good time to me. I'm getting 24 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: to be I'm getting to be a pretty good gardener. 25 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: My fucking cauliflower is going off the chain this year, 26 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: and my potatoes are I would brag more about my potatoes, 27 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: but they are potatoes, and it's the hardest thing to 28 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: funk up in the Pacific Northwest. If you can't grow 29 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: potatoes in northern Oregon, you might not be able to 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: grow things. This is now a gardening podcast podcast. I 31 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: take that as a challenge. I have a I have 32 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: a completely black thumb. I've ever been able to make anything, 33 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: keep anything alive. I will move to northern Oregon and 34 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: I will not grow potato. I'll try to Paul's dead 35 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: potato farm. Uh, Paul, how are you feeling it as 36 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: we enter into part two? How are you feeling about 37 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: sinning On? I feel good. That was such a good 38 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: cliffhanger last week that I'm I'm I'm I'm dying to 39 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: dive into what happens next? What's fun about this one? 40 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: Part one kind of a slow burn, right for a 41 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: lot of the episode broadly reasonable. You know, there's some 42 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: problematic aspects, but like also you compare it to you know, 43 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: it slowly turns into something really toxic. At this point, 44 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: they've just he just puts his foot on the gas, 45 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: like we we go very off the rails, very quickly here. 46 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: So by nineteen sixty seven, with the announcement that sent 47 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: it on, was no longer curing addicts. Um, Charles Debtoric 48 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: was pretty much a full on cult leader. Now this 49 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: slowly became obvious to some of the people inside, but 50 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: to our casual observers, it still seemed to just be 51 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: a drug treatment program that said it was a treatment 52 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: program that was now bringing in the modern equivalent of 53 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: tens of millions of dollars a year through a dizzying 54 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: variety of businesses, not just gas stations, but pottery shops, 55 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: apartment buildings, and a specialty branded item business that sold 56 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: pins and office supplies bearing different company logos. Since the 57 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: cult was technically a nonprofit, they advertised to businesses as 58 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,119 Speaker 1: a charity, begging Fortune five companies to quote buy from 59 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: sinnan On and save a life. Now, yeah, that's what 60 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: you're not compelled by that pitch. The angle is ingenious. 61 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: I have to say it's. Yeah. Businesses love to be 62 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: able to claim they're supporting a good cause by doing 63 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: a thing they would do in any way, just the 64 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: thing that's in their best interest. If you give them 65 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: a way to say that this is a charity, they 66 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: love that ship. But in terms of cults, I mean, 67 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: I think that it's very rare that they they do 68 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: the move of presenting themselves as trying to help the 69 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: entire community and if you give us this money, it 70 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: goes towards this, that and the other thing. Yeah, you know, scientology. 71 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: I think they missed the boat on that making all 72 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 1: about the individual. I mean, I guess they do their 73 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: charity stuff, but nobody cares. Yeah it's like charity stuff, 74 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Like they showed up at 75 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: Katrina and gave e meter readings and ship it's like, yeah, 76 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: that's what we needed, thanks charity of scientology. Um. Bizarre. 77 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: So the reality is that sent and On had essentially 78 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: used the structure of occultability sizable corporation, one which did 79 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: not have to pay its workers or pay taxes, which 80 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: is the benefit of being a nonprofit like this. The 81 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: promotional item. Business would expand massively until it was making 82 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: more than ten million dollars a year in nineteen sixties, 83 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: money making branded ballpoint pins and wallets and T shirts 84 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: for corporate retreats. It was eventually the second largest firm 85 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: of its kind in the United States. Wow, this guy. 86 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: Once that seal was broken, this guy was like, I 87 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: am off to the races. Yeah, yeah, all gas, no 88 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: breaks on this motherfucker. Like he was just like thinking 89 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: of ship, like just inventing ship. Like how about this? 90 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: I mean, no one stopped me yet, I'll just keep going. 91 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: Would stop me? That's always what's going on with these guys. 92 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: Is it just isn't I'm gonna stop me? No, I 93 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: guess I run Hubbard. Is anyone going to stop me 94 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: from having my own navy and searching for gold and 95 00:05:51,480 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: the bambas? Nope, okay, guess that's my life now, um now. 96 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: Sinning On also made a lot of money from the game, 97 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: which when they open up the cult outside members. You know, 98 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: when they open up the program to people who are 99 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: not addicts, they start offering the game as like a 100 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: general self help things, so you can just drop in 101 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: and do with session of the game in the nineteen seventies, 102 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: um and it's you know, they make like a lot 103 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: of money doing this from l a magazine quote. Sinn 104 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: Aon rebranded itself in the nineteen seventies from a drug 105 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: treatment program to a psychotherapy program and started attracting middle 106 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: class people through the Sentanon game, says sociologist Richard Offsheet, 107 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: who spent time in the organization studying it as a 108 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: non resident. By the early nineteen seventies, some thirty squares 109 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: in California, New York and Detroit. We're paying cash to 110 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: participate in games. It was the heyday of the Human 111 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: Potential movement, when Americans were rushing off to therapist couches, 112 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: New age movements like e s t religions like the 113 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: Divine Light Mission, alternative communities like Slum, and cults like 114 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: the People's Temple and Sinnanon, many of which began in California. Yeah, 115 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: you know that is that that This the West Coast 116 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: is where this ship always happens. Because man, if you 117 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: if you're going to get thousands of people together and 118 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: try to start your own civilization, you're going to do 119 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: it in California, like or do it. You can't do it, 120 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: and where there's snow, you can't. You need you need 121 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: a temperate climate to start. You want a temperate climate. Um, 122 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: you also want a lot of wilderness, and you want 123 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: you want a place where everybody is a little bit 124 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: off their rocker, which is the entirety of the West Coast. Um, 125 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: it's just the perfect place to have a colt um. 126 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, yeah, it's just great. So all 127 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: of this money had to go somewhere right there, taking 128 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: in way more money than it costs to operate this motherfucker, 129 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: and most of the money goes to real estate. In 130 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, the Colton purchased the club Casa del Mar, 131 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: a massive beachside hotel in Santa Monica, and turned it 132 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: into a dormitory for their members. Now, when they bought 133 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: the castle, it was still in use as a club 134 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: and still had members who the cult pressured to resign 135 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: their memberships. And this is one of those you know 136 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: you live in l A, right, Um, yeah, these you know, 137 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: they'll have these big beach clubs that will be like 138 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: some of them are just restaurants. Some of them have 139 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: like rooms, and they also have like a chunk of 140 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: beach that is theirs, and they'll have like you know, 141 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: cabanas and bars and stuff. That's what this is. Right. 142 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: So the cult forces the people who had been members 143 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: to resign, and a lot of these people complain and 144 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: the city of Santa Monica gets involved. In Santa just clear, 145 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: he buys this property. But the the the members of 146 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: the club are still like, I don't care. We have 147 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: a club. We have a club. I mean I want 148 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: my beach side cabana, right, Like, why I don't want 149 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: to give that up. I don't want to find another one. Um. 150 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: And he's like, no, this is from my weird cult. 151 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: Now you have to leave. We're going to make it 152 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: weird for you. Also, you can't buy liquor on the 153 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: beach now, And why even go to the beach. Why, Like, 154 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: you're not going to be a member of a beach 155 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: club and not order drinks on the beach. What are 156 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: you talking about? Um? So, yeah, these people complain and 157 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: the city of Santa Monica gets involved, and being the 158 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: city of Santa Monica, they immediately go ape ship in 159 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: a way that they don't have a right to do. Um. 160 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: They order like they basically say, hey, the beach front 161 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: property that this club owns. You don't actually own that, 162 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: that's property of the city, which was bullshit, right, Like 163 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 1: they did own the property. The city is breaking the 164 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: law here, but they send in armored, armed police officers 165 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: and bulldozers and destroy the cabanas and paved the courts 166 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: and or destroy the paved courts in front of the club, 167 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 1: which is like, so the city is in the wrong here. Legally, 168 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: they didn't have the right to do that, and they 169 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: they were. This is just like a massive like like, yeah, 170 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: it's just the Yeah, it's the city be it's the 171 00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: city be in the city. You know, it's assuming like 172 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: what are they gonna do? Right, Um? What are they 173 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: gonna do? Um? Well, it turns out they had tens 174 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars and a lot of Synnon members 175 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: were like Harvard educated lawyers. So this so part of 176 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: what goes wrong is that a bunch of Synnon members 177 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: protest and they're arrested in mass by the cops. Chuck 178 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: Dederic holds a press conference to claim that the city 179 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: had fallen into the hands of mad dogs, and of 180 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: course he promises to sue them all. We don't know 181 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: precisely what legal threats they sent the city of Santa Monica. 182 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: But the city surrenders immediately. And the result of this 183 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: is that for like a decade, Synnon is untouchable. No 184 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: city or zoning commission in California is willing to stand 185 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: in their way. They just don't have to obey zoning 186 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: laws for a decade now because of this, everyone's scared 187 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: of the uh. You know, there's a lot of people 188 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: talking about armed self defense these days, but nothing will 189 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: protect you from the government as well as a bunch 190 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: of frightening asked lawyers. That's the point. In a matter 191 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: of years, Sinnon became the largest landowner in Santa Monica. 192 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: The Cold bought a massive industrial building in Oakland, to 193 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: which they turned into a dormitory in a show room 194 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: where random people off the street could show up to 195 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: participate in the game. The state of California even gifted 196 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: the cult an entire building in San Francisco. And you 197 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: know San Francisco law and real estate. It's not as 198 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: expensive then, but like that's a big gift there was. 199 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: It was never cheap to own buildings in San Francisco 200 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: through the end of the nineteen sixties, Sinnanon and Chuck 201 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: de Eric began to exhibit weirder and weirder behavior. He 202 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: issued a policy of containment, which ordered that his members 203 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: ought to separate themselves from the world outside of the cult. This, 204 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: of course cut them off from their families and friends, 205 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: but also from hobbies or jobs that were not directly 206 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: related to Sinanon. Detoric justified this by claiming that Sinnanon 207 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: had a duty to lead the world into the twenty 208 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: one century. Doing this was going to take everyone's full 209 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: effort and quote, anything less than changing the world is 210 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: mickey mouse. Well now, okay, so at this point, how 211 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: many people are in this cult. It's hard to say, 212 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: but it's probably somewhere around two to three thousand full 213 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: time members, but then thousands of people who are taking 214 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: part in it to a lesser extent, you know, but 215 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: just a couple of thousand full time members, um, but 216 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: a lot of you know. One of the things, because 217 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: this is an organization of people who are addicted to 218 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: hard drugs. There's a lot of hard drug addicts that 219 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: have little in the way of resources. A lot of 220 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: the most powerful, talented people in the world are also 221 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: heavily addicted to drugs, so if you can get those 222 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: people in your cult again, some of like some of 223 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: his lawyers that were like cult members, had been top 224 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: of their class at Harvard like, which is why they're like. 225 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: You see what they did. They frightened the city of 226 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: Santa Monica and to saying no more zoning laws for 227 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: this cult, which is not easy. Um. And they clearly 228 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: have connections to the government in California. UM. But still 229 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,599 Speaker 1: it's worth noting while all this is happening in the 230 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: late nineteen sixties, at the end of the nineteen sixty 231 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: sixty nine sent it On is still broadly respected. Right. 232 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: Judges increasingly were sending children there when they were caught 233 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: with drugs, and many addicts still claimed to gain benefits 234 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: from sinning On even if they didn't buy the whole 235 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: You never get to leave aspect. Art pepper is A 236 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,719 Speaker 1: was a famous jazz saxophonist. He was one of the 237 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: biggest jazz players of his day. He checked himself into 238 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: sinning On in nineteen sixty nine when the weird Ship 239 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: was in full swing. He was immediately suspicious of the 240 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: self policing and the weird limitations to individual liberty. He 241 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,599 Speaker 1: also didn't trust Detoric, who he called the old Whino, 242 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: but he still found value in the program. When he 243 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: found really valuable in the program was oddly enough, you 244 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: know how I mentioned that like twenty four hour day thing, 245 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: where like half the cult is twelve hours awake during 246 00:13:58,280 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: the day half the cult and night during the night. 247 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: He actually found that valuable. He said, quote, dope fiends 248 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: and nuts can't stand routine and when they get bored, 249 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: they have to do something crazy. So sinning On made 250 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,599 Speaker 1: the insanity themselves. The people that ran it caused the insanity, 251 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: which allows He's arguing, if you're mentally ill, if the 252 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: organization you're in is crazy, it helps you actually be 253 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: on a more even keel, right. I guess that's his argument. 254 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: Like I don't know sure. It's like if you get 255 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,119 Speaker 1: if you get a hit on the head with a coconut, 256 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: you will get amnesia. But if you get hit with 257 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: a coconut again, you you don't have an amnesia anymore. 258 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: You know what it is? I think a little bit 259 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: like we talked about this in my podcast about like 260 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: a second American Civil War, Um, it could happen here, 261 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: but um during the blitz in World War two before, 262 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: because everyone knew they were going to be cities bombed 263 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: in the next big war, but they didn't know how 264 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: people would react, and there was this white like they 265 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: euthanized all of the pet in London because they were 266 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: sure that animals would like go crazy and become dangerous, like, yeah, 267 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: that's the thing we don't talk about much, like all 268 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: the cats and dogs they could. Um. They also assumed 269 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: that people were going to lose their minds and start 270 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: committing crimes and mass and just like be completely uncontrolled. 271 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: But just because the being bombed would shatter their minds, 272 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: the opposite happened. And one of the things they noticed 273 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: is that people who had required regular therapy, who had 274 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: required regular psychiatric treatment, stopped receiving it at all. And 275 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: we're suddenly like working as ambulance drivers because when the 276 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: world fell apart around them, something it made they were 277 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: able to function more effectively. And there there's a variety 278 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: of theories as to why that is. Um it's been 279 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: observed in a lot of different disaster scenarios and so 280 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: maybe that's something of what he's talking about, right if 281 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: you and part of it is like you're dysfunctional in 282 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: the regular world. You get put in something that is 283 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: very much not the regular world, and maybe you're able 284 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: to be more functional. I don't know. There's a lot 285 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: to dig into in that statement by Alright Pepper, But 286 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: by the nineteen seventies, cinnan On was fully off the 287 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: rocker as an or whatever individual benefits some people may 288 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: have gathered, it's no longer about treating addiction. When health 289 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: problems forced Chuck to give up sugar and refined grains, 290 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: he banned them for all of his followers. No more 291 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: peanut butter sandwiches. When he started running in place to 292 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: lose weight, running in place became mandatory for everyone, and 293 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: when he shaved his head, everyone was pressured to shave 294 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: their heads as a sign of solidarity. People who refused 295 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: would have their heads forcibly shaved for infractions against the rules. 296 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: Chuck's most controversial rule change came when his doctors told 297 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: him to give up smoking. He banned cigarettes, which led 298 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty members to quit on the spot. 299 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: People are like, no more sandwiches. You gotta run in 300 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: place at random, and they're like alright, alright, oh yeah, 301 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: and you can't smoke. You know what this is a 302 00:16:54,440 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: bridge too far? It is. Yeah, do you understand what 303 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy is. There's only two things to do cocaine 304 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: and cigarettes, and I can't do coke anymore. You're not 305 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: taking this from me. M one rule too far, dude, 306 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,719 Speaker 1: Seeing cigarettes save lives. This is what I've been arguing 307 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: for years. So by that point, the early seventies, when 308 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: you know he banned cigarettes, sent it on, could afford 309 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: to lose people. By nineteen seventy two, the Cold had 310 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 1: more than seventeen hundred live in residents. These are permanent members, 311 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: some of which paid monthly dues because they were squares, 312 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: some of whom labored for free in one of the 313 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: Colt's businesses. Rich people had also started handing over fortunes 314 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,959 Speaker 1: to dead Eric, including some old lady who gave him 315 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: a million dollars and some idiot who gave him gave 316 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: him a mortgage company. They operate a mortgage company because 317 00:17:52,760 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: some guy just gives uh. It's fucking great. Oh yeah. Slowly, 318 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: Chuck assembled an entire town of his own at Tamali's 319 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: bay Um, complete with the fleet of ships, hundreds of motorbikes, 320 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: an airstrip with a private plane, hot tubs, and writing stables. 321 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: This was his his perfect city. He called it home Place, 322 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: and it was only open to the top members of 323 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: the cult and of course to Chuck and his wife Betty, 324 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: So it is them and their friends basically, and the 325 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: other cult leader cult members are like, I mean, actually 326 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: it's not all bad, right, Like, if you're living on 327 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: the beach in Santa Monica, worst fucking living arrangements on 328 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: God's green Earth, that's not so bad. Well, home place 329 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: as I don't know if they have the hot tub 330 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: at Casa del March, yeah, but it is. It seems 331 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: like almost all of their real estate was pretty nice places, right, 332 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: you know, you know Santa Monica. They actually become the 333 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: largest landowners in Santa Monica for like two years, I know. 334 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: And that's like that wasn't that cheap a real estate? 335 00:18:55,359 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: Then that's a big deal. U And the Cassada Mark, 336 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: I think that was like their massive dormitory. And the 337 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: beach is still a hotel today like it's been. You 338 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: can go to that place like it's it's still in operation. 339 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: Not as part of the cult obviously, um, because I 340 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: guess it was just a good building. But you know 341 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: what is still in operation as part of a cult. Paul, 342 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: I have an idea, But why don't you tell me? 343 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: The sponsors of this podcast are all cults. That's the 344 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: only guarantee we make it behind the bastards. My suspicions 345 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: are confirmed. Yeah, absolutely, So you know, um, buy some 346 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: products purgeon unbeliever, cult ship, go do some cult ship 347 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: and listen to these acts. And while you're buying these products, 348 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: run in place. Oh yeah, yeah, run in place. But 349 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: you can smoke in all of our cults. That's the 350 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: that's the promise that I'm not monsters. In fact, smoking 351 00:19:54,000 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: is mandatory. It's mandatory mandatory. Are puffing away on a 352 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: camel while you're running in place? Yeah yeah, yeah, it 353 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: seems you know, the can't counterproductive? But okay I did. 354 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: I I when I was hiking volcanoes in Guatemala. The 355 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: guy who was by far the best at it because 356 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: he's a I mean, he now makes like authentic Viking 357 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: equipment for the History Channel and stuff using original methods. 358 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: But the guy that I would would I would hike 359 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: volcanoes with and he would chain smoke the whole way 360 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: up feed elevation. You know, yeah, just just just burning 361 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: him down. It was amazing. All right, here's ads. We're back. Ah, 362 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: we're back, and we're talking about sinning on now. In 363 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, the San Francisco Examiner decided to take 364 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: a deeper, more critical look at this drug rehab program 365 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: that suddenly owned like all of California. They're like, they've 366 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 1: bought the whole state and they have their own cops. 367 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: Perhaps a journalist ought to look into this um. They 368 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: published a series of critical articles focused mainly on Charles Debtoric, 369 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: his weird policy of separating people from their families, and 370 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: the fact that he had gotten rich operating a series 371 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: of tax free businesses under the guys of therapy. They're 372 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: reporting was solid, but what was more solid was Debtoric's lawyers. 373 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: By this point, fort drug addicted legal professionals had joined 374 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: the cult, and Chuck set them all against the Examiner. 375 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: And when you have high grade office lawyers who don't 376 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: bill you, you you can do anything. You can do anything 377 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: in the world, right, that is the dream. Just a 378 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: squadron of frightening lawyers don't charge you. Good god. Yeah, Um, 379 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: so Chuck sets all of his lawyers again. Uh, the 380 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: Examiner and Hurst newspapers, who owned the paper, has to 381 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: settle out of court for I think two point six million. 382 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: I've heard a couple of different numbers, but like it 383 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: hurts you know, Um, this was the day when newspapers 384 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: had millions of dollars as opposed today where like if 385 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: you could give a newspaper a parking ticket, that that's it. 386 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: They're out of business, right like, sorry, we can't keep 387 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: doing this anymore. And I mean, did he have any 388 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: idea that this that this story was coming or was 389 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: it a surprise to him? And then it was a 390 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 1: couple of stories, so they were they launched like a 391 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: series and he sues, so he doesn't. I don't he 392 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: doesn't have intelligence inside. I think it's surprises and he 393 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: gets angry and he's sixes his law goouls on them. 394 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: The Examiner's suit scared most newspapers away from investigating the cults. 395 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: So they frightened all of the local governments in California 396 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: away from enforcing zoning laws. And now they frightened newspapers 397 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: away from reporting on them. Um, which is again not dumb. 398 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: The cult the this is so this is the game plan, 399 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: right if you're listening and you're going to start a cult. 400 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: I'm planning to start a cult. So far, so good, 401 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: except for the banning cigarettes part um. So uh, it's 402 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: unfortunate that the early seventies or when newspapers got scared 403 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: away for importing on centing on, because the early seventies 404 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: were also the time that Chuck Dederick decided it was 405 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: a bad idea for children to be raised by parents. 406 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: So it was a bad idea. What for for for parents? 407 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: For children to be raised by parents? Oh sure, yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, 408 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: you know the thing that has been doing for forever. 409 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 1: We should just stop that and immediately try the thing. 410 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: Just because we've been doing it for a long time 411 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that it's perfect. I was raised by parents, 412 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: and let me tell you, it was not all smooth sailing. 413 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: It was not. So it's some scientology level shit. Oh no, 414 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: this is way more intense than what scientology. So we're 415 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: a phrase I don't hear often. Let's hear that. Let's go. 416 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: Chuck justified this by saying, basically, junkies are too much 417 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: our children, right, and kids can't raise kids. So he 418 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: started sending newborn babies and young children of his members 419 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: away to be raised in a central facility he called 420 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: the hatchery. Oh this is at this point. At this point, 421 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: he's like, why should I hide anything? Yeah, I'll call 422 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: it the hatchery. I know what that sounds. No, I 423 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: know what that sounds like. I gonna give a fuck. Yeah, hatchery. 424 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: No one stopped me yet. But make make the sign. 425 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: Make the sign. I don't have time bought Santa Monica 426 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: and Marim County. I can do whatever I want. So. 427 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: Children were to be reared communally by teachers in the 428 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: sinnan On School. Charles Derek called mothers who wanted to 429 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 1: see their own children too much head suckers. I want 430 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: to see your own kids. That seems like abusive behaviorad sucker. 431 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,959 Speaker 1: Children were not allowed toys, to own toys, or anything 432 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,479 Speaker 1: else of their own. They slept in large rooms with 433 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: many beds. There were only allowed occasional visitation from their parents. Now, 434 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: I actually found a book, a memoir by a man 435 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: who was raised as a child in a sin and 436 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 1: On school. Most of the book is not about that, 437 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: but that's how it starts, and obviously it has a 438 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: profound impact on him. This guy, Michael Jollette, writes that 439 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: he was raised to believe he was a drug addict 440 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: because his father had been one quote, he's like six quote. 441 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: We never used the words drug addict. We would just 442 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: say someone was a dope fiend. People said this with pride, 443 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure that's what we are. If someone 444 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: were to ask us whether we are white or black, 445 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,479 Speaker 1: or Dutch or Italian, I'm not really sure, but I 446 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: know we're all dope fiends, because that's all anyone ever 447 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: talks about. The book is written kind of in a 448 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: in a present tense right when he's writingbout his child. Um. So, 449 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: Michel was very young. M I k e l was 450 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: very young when he left the cult. I think again, 451 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: I think he was like five or six. I'm not 452 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: exactly sure. He was a little kid, um but he 453 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 1: reported not fully as like I don't know six, like 454 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: as like a first grader or so. He didn't understand 455 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: what a mother or a father was really like. He 456 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: would meet his mom occasionally, but he didn't really get 457 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: what she was or what his dad was, and he 458 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: had to be one of the when his mom leaves 459 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: the cult, their grandpa is who like rescues them, and 460 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: he didn't know what a grandfather was. He had never 461 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: heard the word before, like like that's the level of 462 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: like hiding from children. The concept of grandparents Jesus um 463 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: it is again. And in Michel's book Hollywood Park deals 464 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: with his life after the colt um, but it it 465 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 1: talks a bit about what it was like there, and 466 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,719 Speaker 1: there are some heartrending passages about sin and on school quote. 467 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,479 Speaker 1: The school is where they put the kids when they 468 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: took us from our parents. It's where we all lived 469 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: from the time we were six months old. Since Chuck 470 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: the Old Man said that dope fiends would just mess 471 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: up their kids anyway, we were all putting a building 472 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: together to become children of the universe. You had to 473 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 1: listen to Chuck. We had demonstrators who were like teachers 474 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: and classes and songs. And I was lucky because I 475 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: had a Bonnie. She would hug me every day and 476 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: sing songs with me and call me son and asked 477 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: me what I want for a snack. Most of the 478 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: other kids didn't have a Bonnie, though, and some never 479 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: even saw their moms or dads. They just never came 480 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: to visit. Dmitri said he doesn't remember his mom's face. 481 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: She was somewhere else, he didn't know where his dad was. 482 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: The demonstrators say, we don't need our parents because we 483 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: have each other, but we don't like sharing our toys, 484 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: and I don't know who to talk to when I 485 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: woke up with a bad dream or fell off of 486 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: the monkey bars. Mm hmm, Yeah it really is. That's bad. Yeah, 487 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:53,239 Speaker 1: it's a bummer. Yeah, here's a Now we're into. Now 488 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: we're into more than more than just greed or yea megalomania. 489 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,160 Speaker 1: Now it's like it's truly like devious, like this is well, 490 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,479 Speaker 1: this is funny. With the other things that are even 491 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 1: abusive in the colt there's still an element of consent, right, 492 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,719 Speaker 1: because you chose to do this, you choose to stay right. 493 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: Not that cold stone abuse consent and whatnot, But these 494 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: are It's one thing when it's a bunch of adults 495 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: who were choosing a lifestyle that may have abusive elements. 496 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: These kids have no choice at any point and they 497 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: are being fucked up. I'm going to read one more 498 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: quote um from Michel's book. Some of the kids were 499 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,479 Speaker 1: very sad. Tony his brother used to sit alone at 500 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: the edge of the playground all day, and his brother 501 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: was a little older than him. He would turn away 502 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: when one of the demonstrators tried to hug him. He 503 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: doesn't trust the adults, and he doesn't play with other 504 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: kids that much. When Mom came to visit, she would say, 505 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: he's just like that, and he needs to learn how 506 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: to deal with his anger. But maybe it's because someone 507 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: did bad things to him. That happens. Sometimes the kids 508 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: would get hit really hard or locked in a closet 509 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: and there was no mom or dad to tell because 510 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: they lived somewhere else and you couldn't even remember their faces. 511 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: M Yeah, I mean how many kids didn't never recovered 512 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: from that experience and are like fucked up to this day. 513 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: There's an element of it that is I don't not worse, 514 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: I don't want to use worse or better. But it's 515 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: a different kind of like from a kid who sexually 516 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: abused but still understands, broadly speaking, what what a family is, 517 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: what grandparents are, like the basics of life and society. 518 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: These kids have to learn everything when they get it. 519 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: That's what Mickell's book is about. Is like realizing that 520 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: hotels exist, right, realizing that fast like all of this stuff, 521 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: like because you're just in this separate world. That's all 522 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: the dream of this weird guy, who, by his own admission, 523 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: can't connect with children anyway. Who's just deciding how these 524 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: infants are raised from six months on. Um, it's pretty 525 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: bad ball. It's real bad here, Robert. Yeah. In the 526 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, Chuck decided to launch a new version of 527 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: the game. This one geared towards provoking the same sort 528 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: of psychedelic experience he had had on LSD, but without 529 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: using drugs. He called this the Trip, and it was 530 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: initially offered to a select few the elite. Ded Eric 531 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: told them, at the end of this rainbow, there will 532 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: be a pot of gold. Through dissipation or long hours 533 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: of activity without very much sleep, we hope to bring 534 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: about in you a conscious state of inebriation. We want 535 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: to get you loaded without acid. Now there's ways to 536 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: do that. For my book, A Brief History of Ice, 537 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: which was like, I was experimenting with weird drugs. One 538 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: of the things that we do. I tried to recreate 539 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: this ancient Greek ritual where they had this weird wine 540 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: that was by some accounts like a mix of grains 541 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: and like cheese and stuff and wine that was like psychedelic, 542 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: but they would not eat for a week before they 543 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: took it. Um, And I could and I only I 544 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: only I think I went four or five days without eating. 545 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: But it was like the first thing you put on 546 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: your stomach, especially, I like you do you hike up 547 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: a mountain, like before you take it, and like that 548 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: first putting something in your body especially, it's like it 549 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: hits heart, you know. Um. And say in the same way, 550 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: like if you don't let people sleep for days, they'll 551 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: start to trip, like you will hallucinate. Yeah, And the 552 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: key to this insight producing experience was to keep people 553 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: awake for days on end until they were delirious and 554 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: started to loosen. End. You get really suggestible, right if 555 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: you've ever been gone days without sleeping, Um, your your 556 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: willpower isn't the same. You know, Yes, you're damaging your 557 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: body and brain because it's very bad for you. Um. 558 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: People who took the trip were initially told that this 559 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: was an honor meant to expand their consciousness and capabilities. Uh. 560 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: Quote this is from Charles. You will learn more about yourself, 561 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: your fellow man, the world, the nature of reality, and 562 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: one weekend than you would in four years let your 563 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: ego go, let things happen to you. It's a feeling 564 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: of closeness to each other that we are after the 565 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: death of the ego, a reference point for the rest 566 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: of your life. You may change your value system, notions 567 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: about life and viewpoints about people. It will produce a 568 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: new breed of human and beings with greatly expanded potentials. 569 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: If you do your best, you can't fail. So that 570 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: sounds positive. But once the actual trips started, a different 571 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: reality was revealed. So the whole experience started. When a 572 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: an individual called a shepherd led the group, which usually 573 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: numbered about fifty, through the lobby of the cassadel Mar. 574 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: They were ordered to strip out of their clothes and 575 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: put on white robes. Watches were taken as time did 576 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: not matter anymore. Women were told to remove makeup and 577 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: jewelry in order to symbolically strip away their past selves. 578 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: And then, according to a write up by Tony Morants, 579 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: the guides, all experienced game players, turned each group from 580 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: enthusiasm to a depression and defeat, wallowing in its collective shame. 581 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: Sitting in comfortable green armchairs, they made the dope fiends 582 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: tell their tales of drugs, rape, crime and beatings. The 583 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: squares were pushed to confess their prior loneliness and despair. 584 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: The games turned on one and then another. Disoriented by 585 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: lack of sleep, each was moved to the point of 586 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: intense disillusionment. Aids who did their homework provided ammunition to 587 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: the conductors. On each tripper, everyone was ordered to cop out, 588 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: confess to pass. Since the result was implantation of a 589 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: common bond and sense of ideals, all identified with Synanon, 590 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: each tripper was to write on a paper or on 591 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: some feeling or admission. A big shot would advise the trippers. 592 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: They were not really chosen as an honor, but each 593 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: was really selected because each was a resistor thinking here 594 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: she knew better the direction sentnon should go. Part of 595 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: the dummies that hold Synanon back. Maybe de Oric said 596 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: one day we will just put the dingbats like you 597 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: against the wall and wash them off and bring them 598 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: back into the human race. So it starts like this 599 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: is a thing. You've been selected because you're special and 600 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: we're all going to grow, And then it becomes days 601 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: of not sleeping and being psychologically abused and being told 602 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: you're here because you're resisting the Coult. You're resisting the 603 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: teachings and you have to be punished and realize your errors. Now, 604 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: there were other stages of the trip too. It would 605 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: veer between. You would have these sessions of like profound 606 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: emotional abuse, and then all of these exhausted, weeping people 607 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: would be taken into a room filled with like other 608 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: members of the cult who were well rested, who would 609 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: start cheering and clapping and hug them and love bomb them, 610 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: and it was this, yeah, you get what this is doing, right, 611 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: It's like, it's so insidious, this guy, Yeah, it's you 612 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: gotta get You have to hand it to Chuck de Eric. 613 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,879 Speaker 1: He knew how to funk up people. Truly, he truly did. 614 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: You can't take that away from the man. All the 615 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 1: lessons he he learned from a This is his improvement, 616 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: This is all his imp movement on alcoholicis a A 617 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: and and and one. Emerson essay, Oh my god, um yeah, 618 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's pretty great. Um now. And it would 619 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: go on as long as like three, I think sometimes 620 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: four days without sleep, and by the end of it, 621 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: pretty much everyone was hallucinating and traumatized, but of course 622 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 1: also bonded with the people they've gone through experience with 623 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,439 Speaker 1: and the trip was a massive success in its second year. 624 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: Was making Yeah. I mean it's one of those things 625 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: I can tell you I've had a number of like 626 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,399 Speaker 1: like there was a festival I went to one year 627 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: that got like horribly, horribly reigned out to the point 628 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: where it was like it was it became a danger 629 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: and like dealing with it was actually one of the 630 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,959 Speaker 1: most fun things that I've ever done with a group 631 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: of people, and everybody kind of came away like a 632 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: degree of bonding. The same thing was true last year 633 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: during the riots, Like you do a terrible thing with 634 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: a group of people and you all and some of 635 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: it's that, you know, if it's an actual dangerous situation, 636 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: you learn to trust people in ways that you don't 637 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: normally learn to trust. I think in this what it 638 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: is is that this breaks your ability to interact with 639 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: the rest of the world, which is something all trauma 640 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: can do. Um And so that's I think consciously what 641 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: he's doing is making it so that people can connect 642 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 1: less with the world, but it also draws them in 643 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,439 Speaker 1: more to the cult because they're the only other people 644 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: who understand this thing. UM. So in its second year, 645 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,439 Speaker 1: sinn On was making half a million dollars a year 646 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: selling access to the trip um or selling sessions, or 647 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: whatever you wanna call them, selling tricks um. In the 648 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: mid nineteen seventies, the cults repression of its own members 649 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: ramped up in ways that were even more intense and 650 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: eventually violent. Most histories of the cult will trace the 651 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: tipping point to one specific moment in the summer of 652 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three from Cabinet magazine quote Deric himself was 653 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: taking part in a game, but one female member was 654 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,919 Speaker 1: showing him no respect and kept interrupting his nomaic utterances. Infuriated, 655 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: de Oric stood up, walked over to the woman, and 656 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: poured a can of root beer over her head. It 657 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 1: was a small gesture of frustration, but the effect within 658 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: Cinnenon was earth shattering. No matter the other changes that 659 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: had taken place, the rules of the game had always 660 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: been sacrosancd, no drugs, no violence. Now Dedoric himself had 661 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 1: broken one of them. Some wondered whether he'd gone crazy, 662 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: but his more devoted followers preferred to see it as 663 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: a line a colt to arms. Yeah I mean that, Yeah, yeah, 664 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: that's when you know your cult is firing on all 665 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: cylinders when you change the rules and people are like, yes, yes, yeah, 666 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: when you change, when you when you commit what I 667 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: would call the most minor act of violence imaginable, which 668 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 1: is pouring root beer on someone, and you're like, this 669 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: is a sign that we should attempt to murder our enemies. 670 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: You have, you have done it as a cult leader 671 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: when you hit that moment um. But you know who 672 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: will murder your enemies? Paul, I have a guess. But first, 673 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: the products and services that that's what was podcast that 674 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 1: that's that's really what we're selling with all of our 675 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: products is someone who will murder your enemies? So which 676 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: is to say, these products, yeah, which is a service? Yeah? 677 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 1: This is this is This podcast is entirely supported by 678 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: various death squads. So check it out. Oh we're back 679 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: and talking about the introduction of violence to Send it 680 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: On now. I think for reasons that are heartbreaking but 681 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: not at all surprising, the first violence, serious violence within 682 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: sent it On was done to children, specifically the dozens 683 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: of juvenile drug addicts. Well, I don't they weren't all 684 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: even drug addicts obviously, Like sometimes kids just get sitting 685 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: there some kids smoking pot. Right, you get sent to 686 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: the judge sends you to send it on because you 687 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,280 Speaker 1: had like a joint on you, right, drug kids who 688 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: the court system had sent to sent it on right teenagers. 689 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: And these kids were not voluntary members of the cult. 690 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: They didn't want to be there, They didn't abide by 691 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 1: the rules. These kids had zero time for chops bullshit 692 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: and no desire to it in with these weird adults 693 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: doing dumb shit. Um So Debtoric couldn't handle that these 694 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: kids weren't willing to like listen to him or follow 695 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: the cult, so he put them into what he called 696 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: his Punk Squad, which was a militaristic boot camp style 697 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 1: unit dedicated to scaring still children straight through harsh discipline 698 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: and horrific physical abuse. Children in the Punk Squad could 699 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: be hit in the face, knocked down, or beaten with 700 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: objects and then run through the game so they would 701 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: beat the ship out of kids for misbehaving and then 702 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,839 Speaker 1: immediately put them in a session of the game where 703 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 1: they would be mentally abused. Um yeah, and that was 704 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: became If you broke any of the rules as a child, 705 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: as remember the Punk Squad, you just get the ship 706 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: kicked out of you. There's no haircuts, there's just you 707 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: wail on them. Now, some older members of the colt 708 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: refused to accept this. Right, this is their cigarette. Um. 709 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: They're like, this is this is too far um. Right. 710 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: They had joined an organization defined in part by its 711 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,799 Speaker 1: commitment to non violence UM. And so some people leave 712 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: at this, and the arguments over this lead to a 713 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: series of purges by Debtoric to remove all who complained. Betty, 714 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: the cult leader's wife, claimed, we're beginning to find some 715 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: creeps amongst the squares. The punk Squad was markedly ineffective 716 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: at stopping children from using drugs or otherwise breaking the law, 717 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,879 Speaker 1: but it was extremely good at maintaining sent it Ons 718 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 1: tax exempt status. That's why they take these kids, is 719 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: that you don't have to pay taxes as long as 720 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,839 Speaker 1: when the government sends you juvenile delinquents, you take them 721 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: in and beat the ship out of them. And because 722 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 1: it's already been established that journalists and the local and 723 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: the government are not looking into sent it On at 724 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,239 Speaker 1: all because they're scared these kids have uh no one, 725 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: well not quite no one. We'll get to that in 726 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: a little bit though. In nineteen seventy four, Detoric decided 727 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,760 Speaker 1: it was time for sent and On to become a religion. 728 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: For years he told, yeah, here we go, maybe here 729 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:58,320 Speaker 1: we go. Yeah, you know, I thought it over thought 730 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: it over I think this is going. But I think 731 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: if there's one thing that could really take us into 732 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,359 Speaker 1: the stratosphere, we should be a religion. And this is 733 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: you know l R. H. Friend of the pod Um 734 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: made this same call for a different reason. I think 735 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 1: he was really the driver of that called Chuck is 736 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: not the initial driver of this. So for years, Chuck 737 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: had told his followers that the cult was an experimental 738 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: society and an He would call it quote an every 739 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: changing group of people with ever changing goals, thrusts, directions 740 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: and so on, which means nothing. Um and yeah he 741 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 1: was not. So he was. He was going, definitely in 742 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: weird directions. He didn't initiate the push to religify sent 743 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,319 Speaker 1: and On. It came because he was a Yeah he 744 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:45,959 Speaker 1: was an atheist. That was not what it was about 745 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: to him. But his lawyer, Dan Garrett had an idea. 746 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: He pointed out that religions don't have to get licenses 747 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: for treating medical issues or for educating children, right you 748 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 1: don't have to get any kind of licensing. If you're 749 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: a fucking religion. You can do in anything without licenses 750 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: if you were a religion. Um, that's what he says, 751 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: And he also notes that becoming a religion would quote 752 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 1: eliminate a number of silly questions such as when do 753 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: they graduate and why do they have to obey? Nobody 754 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: graduates from a religion. Good ship. So Garrett pitched his 755 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: boss Guru this idea at a board meeting, and dead 756 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 1: Eric loved it. The board unanimously approved the plan. Um, yeah, yeah, 757 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: we should become a religious Like that's gonna happen to 758 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: fucking Amazon or Apple at some point. Some Why don't 759 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 1: we just become a religion. We have debate taxes. If 760 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,239 Speaker 1: our religion is making these phones, maybe that will be 761 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: Jeff's revelation from space when he gets back to Earth. 762 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: Like I spoke to me. Yeah, I saw the planet 763 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,799 Speaker 1: is one big blue marble and it was smaller than 764 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: I was, and I realized I'm God now. Yeah. And 765 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: by the way, warehouse workers don't get paid anymore. It's 766 00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: a sacrament to work in our workshops. Um. Yeah, So 767 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 1: the board unanimously approves this plan, although one person we 768 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: don't know who wrote on a copy of the proposal 769 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 1: who would be God? Which is a good question to 770 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:15,800 Speaker 1: ask when when you're again drug abuse treatment program becomes 771 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 1: a religious because you know it's going to come up later, 772 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 1: so you should haven't to come up. Yeah, you gotta 773 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: ask the questions. Yeah, yeah. So the switch to a 774 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,320 Speaker 1: religion came right alongside a major expansion and sent and 775 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,879 Speaker 1: on it's appreciation of violence. After children, the first group 776 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:39,399 Speaker 1: to have violence okaid against them were split ease, suspected thieves, bies, 777 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: and enemies of the cult, people who were thought that 778 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 1: we're going to be leaving. Basically, if you're leaving, you're 779 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: a thief, you're splitty. Violence can be used against you. 780 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,399 Speaker 1: Now they're made first major group of outside enemies, people 781 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,240 Speaker 1: outside the cult that they go after. We're local ranchers 782 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: in Marin County. And this is because the only group 783 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: of people who cared about these abused teams were like 784 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,479 Speaker 1: local far mers. Because a bunch of these kids would 785 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 1: escape UM and they would show up in the night 786 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: at the houses of these ranchers, and eventually the ranchers 787 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,240 Speaker 1: start talking to be like, there's a lot of kids 788 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 1: talking about like horrible abusive ship going on at this 789 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 1: weird cult, and they started their own underground railroad to 790 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,759 Speaker 1: help kids in the punk squad escape and get out, 791 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: get away from sin and On and like get to 792 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:23,799 Speaker 1: somewhere where they couldn't be taken back to the cold, 793 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: which is fucking rad right, good on, good on those people. Yeah, 794 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:33,000 Speaker 1: that's great, um. But Debtoric eventually found out that this 795 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: underground railroad was operating and he started seeking his followers 796 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 1: on ranchers. In nineteen seventy five, three Sin and On 797 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: members were charged with assaulting a Marine County rancher. Detoric 798 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: called them heroes. Shortly thereafter, another rancher was pistol whipped 799 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: by a cyanide while his family watched, Like they attack 800 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: him in front of his house and like beat the 801 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,879 Speaker 1: hell out of him. And these are they do? They 802 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 1: not necessarily know that these particular ranchers had anything to 803 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,480 Speaker 1: do with this. They're just these do these do they do? Okay? Okay, 804 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, And you know this guy gets pistol whip 805 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 1: and the local sheriff does nothing because Dedoric is bribing him, 806 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: and both of his deputies were members of the cult, 807 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,759 Speaker 1: like he's got like two deputies I guess in that 808 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,439 Speaker 1: part of the county at that point, and they're both 809 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 1: called members. Yeah. Um. So again, every part of society 810 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 1: has failed the kids in this program except for random 811 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 1: Marin County ranchers, um, who are are definitely the heroes 812 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: of this podcast, along with a lawyer we're going to 813 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,480 Speaker 1: talk about in a bit so. Um. In Santa Monica, 814 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,360 Speaker 1: Cyanides mobbed and beat two black couples who had parked 815 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,800 Speaker 1: their cars at a cent and on owned apartment building. Um. 816 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 1: And this is just because like they've gotten close to 817 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: the offices. Like I don't know if it was a 818 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 1: racist thing or not. They were both black couples that 819 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,440 Speaker 1: might have been like I don't know why, but they 820 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,440 Speaker 1: it seems to have been like a property dispute, like 821 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,400 Speaker 1: you're parked on our properties. So we're just going to 822 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,360 Speaker 1: assault you as a group. Um. Because now like a 823 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: real there's like a real paranoia that that exists in 824 00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: this group and that they everyone has to be able 825 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 1: to look out for enemies. Yeah. And also you're a 826 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,680 Speaker 1: hero if you do violence on behalf of the cult. 827 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 1: So a lot of people are just looking sure an excuse. Yeah, um, yeah, 828 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 1: non violence, Detoric bragged at a press conference, was quote 829 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,319 Speaker 1: just a position. We can change positions anytime we want to. 830 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:22,840 Speaker 1: So that's good now. The violence of Cyanides was ginned 831 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 1: up and encouraged by the Wire, an internal broadcasting system 832 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 1: installed in all cult facilities around the country. Twenty four 833 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: hours a day. The Wire broadcast messages from Debtoric and 834 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: from cult leadership. Yes, I have to say like he is. 835 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,439 Speaker 1: It's like when you when when you can like there's 836 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,520 Speaker 1: a musician that you like, and then you can sort 837 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 1: of see all their different influences and it makes them 838 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,399 Speaker 1: into what they are. This guy is just like I'll 839 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,279 Speaker 1: take this from here and this from here, and I'm 840 00:46:55,360 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 1: just I can't. I am trying to predict how this 841 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,440 Speaker 1: eventually all falls apart, and I honestly can't because this 842 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,160 Speaker 1: guy seems to be like really just rolling with every 843 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 1: punch he's adding ship like crazy, Like I'm dying to 844 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,680 Speaker 1: see what is the thing that happens. Yeah, it's um, 845 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: it's coming. Yeah, I'm not trying. I will say this. 846 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 1: You're not gonna call it no, like you can't call 847 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:28,160 Speaker 1: this specific twist phantom. Yeah. So many of the messages 848 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,240 Speaker 1: that went out through the wire. We're just Chuck ranting 849 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: NonStop about enemies. He started pulling out a call for volunteers, 850 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,480 Speaker 1: young tough men who were willing to fight. He called 851 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: them the Imperial Marines and had them trained in a 852 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,400 Speaker 1: special form of karate name named sin O Doe. So 853 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,800 Speaker 1: now the cult has its own karate and its own marine. 854 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:54,960 Speaker 1: I mean, that's so good. This is Hall of Fame stuff. 855 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,120 Speaker 1: I know, he's really hitting all of them out of 856 00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,919 Speaker 1: the part. This is the first cult leader who I'm 857 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,239 Speaker 1: willing to like, this guy can sit in a room 858 00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: without Ron Hubbard, you know, Like, that's gotta damn um. Now, 859 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,120 Speaker 1: the major organizer of the Imperial Marines in their early 860 00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: days was Chuck's wife, Betty. She attended their training sessions. 861 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 1: She gave ranting speeches about the need for a militant Sinnon, 862 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 1: our narcotics abuse program needs to a militant wing Debtoric. 863 00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,359 Speaker 1: As a result of his wife's dedication, started calling them 864 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:34,520 Speaker 1: her Majesty's Imperial Marines. So things have gone a little 865 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 1: off the rails at this point. Now, while this ship 866 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 1: was going on, Sinnon's various corporate entities were still extremely 867 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,960 Speaker 1: profitable the colt adopted the slogan the People Business, and 868 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,719 Speaker 1: by nineteen seventy six it had assets. It had property 869 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,920 Speaker 1: assets of more than twenty two million dollars, which is 870 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,080 Speaker 1: around a hundred million dollars in real estate today. Now, 871 00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 1: it is a misconception to say that the i r. 872 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: S grant to send it on tax exempt status as 873 00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,080 Speaker 1: a religion. You'll see that a lot in articles. That's 874 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 1: not true. The US government never recognized it as a religion. 875 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,359 Speaker 1: It was tax free because it was the Dediction Recovery Charity. Um, 876 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,600 Speaker 1: it was tax free, but not now they filed. They 877 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,440 Speaker 1: try to become a religion, but they don't ever, like 878 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:21,800 Speaker 1: like scientology didn't get that done until the nineties. Right. Yeah. 879 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,440 Speaker 1: The main effect of sending On declaring itself a religion 880 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: seems to be that it drew a third wave of 881 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,759 Speaker 1: media attention to the cult. Much of the scrutiny was 882 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: focused on the millions of dollars. Dedrick himself was making 883 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,120 Speaker 1: EL a magazine notes and this is sorry, this is 884 00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,560 Speaker 1: el a magazine interviewing Detoric. So this is Dedrick here. 885 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:41,480 Speaker 1: A lot of guys could do this thing from an 886 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,960 Speaker 1: old Fort roadster and said on an orange crate. Their 887 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,719 Speaker 1: holy men. I'm not I need a seventeen thousand dollar Cadillac, 888 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,359 Speaker 1: he told Time magazine that year. Did you ever play 889 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,319 Speaker 1: King of the Mountain when you were a kid? I 890 00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,360 Speaker 1: liked King of the Mountain. I won, I won. I 891 00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,160 Speaker 1: was their firstest, with the mostest. I was the smartest. 892 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,279 Speaker 1: I was older than the rest of the guys. I one, 893 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,960 Speaker 1: I one. The gang does not expect me to well, 894 00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,759 Speaker 1: let me say, let me say this terribly unforgiving thing 895 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,919 Speaker 1: that is true of all people in position. I am 896 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,239 Speaker 1: not bound by the rules. I make the rules in 897 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:18,440 Speaker 1: very peculiar ways. I am adorable. I am gracious saying 898 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:23,919 Speaker 1: that time. I'm One of my favorite cult recurring cult 899 00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,480 Speaker 1: things is when the leader has to justify their expensive car. 900 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,200 Speaker 1: It comes up again and again. Yeah, it's always a thing, 901 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,359 Speaker 1: and I love because even l R. H would be like, well, 902 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,040 Speaker 1: you know, let me explain using words I invented why 903 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,000 Speaker 1: this is positive for the human mind, or how we're 904 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,640 Speaker 1: expanding cash. It's just like, I don't have to play 905 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:49,919 Speaker 1: by the rules. Fuck you, I'm God to Time magazine. 906 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 1: So Charles kept seeking his legal team on journalists who 907 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,120 Speaker 1: crossed him. He sued a local ABC outlet, and they 908 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,919 Speaker 1: settled for a lot of money probably, But when Time 909 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,400 Speaker 1: called sending on a kookie cult in the article we 910 00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,360 Speaker 1: just quoted from, Dederic decided something rather more serious was 911 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,000 Speaker 1: in order. Multiple reporters from the magazine received death threats, 912 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,920 Speaker 1: and Times editor in chief was stopped outside his apartment 913 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,640 Speaker 1: by two Imperial Marines with shaved heads who told him 914 00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:22,200 Speaker 1: we are going to ruin your life now, Like were 915 00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,160 Speaker 1: these were these her majesties Imperial Marines? Yeah, her majesties 916 00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,279 Speaker 1: and perimans. Yeah, yes, yes, sorry, I I get you know, 917 00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,960 Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure now. Like all good 918 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,520 Speaker 1: cult leaders whose members start to commit crimes in their name, 919 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,239 Speaker 1: Chuck claimed not to avoided the harassment campaign, but he 920 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 1: also was too much of a narcissist to fully deny 921 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,200 Speaker 1: being involved in this, and in a TV interview he 922 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,960 Speaker 1: used his denial of responsibility to further threaten Time magazine quote, 923 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,279 Speaker 1: I don't know what these people might do. I don't 924 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,560 Speaker 1: know what action they might take against the people responsible, 925 00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,680 Speaker 1: their wives, their children. Bombs could be thrown in odd places, 926 00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,120 Speaker 1: into the homes of some of the clowns who occupy 927 00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,879 Speaker 1: places in the time organization. I don't know why they're 928 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:08,080 Speaker 1: doing this, but they might bomb your kids again. Amazing 929 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:12,520 Speaker 1: ship to just say on TV. Wow, like and this 930 00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:17,200 Speaker 1: is who up till now. Every time he's pushed back 931 00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:22,880 Speaker 1: powerful organizations, the fucking cops, the local government's um newspapers 932 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:24,800 Speaker 1: have been like, Okay, we're just not going to get involved. 933 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,959 Speaker 1: So he's just he thinks there's no consequences. He thinks 934 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,799 Speaker 1: he's fucking God. So he's just saying like, yeah, you know, 935 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,200 Speaker 1: I didn't order them too, but I wouldn't be surprised 936 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:38,600 Speaker 1: if my guys bombed your children to death. Might happen. Hey, 937 00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:40,919 Speaker 1: they might not to you know who they might not? 938 00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:45,359 Speaker 1: I said might. It's not a threat if you say might. 939 00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,359 Speaker 1: It's the first in minecraft um SO. Over its first 940 00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,200 Speaker 1: few years, Imperial marines and other synonites would be sent 941 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,320 Speaker 1: to carry out attacks on more than forty people. Enemies 942 00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,680 Speaker 1: were often assaulted and beaten in public so that everyone 943 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:01,840 Speaker 1: would the hit had been carried out for sinnan On 944 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,279 Speaker 1: Detteric counseled members that if they were caught, they should 945 00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,800 Speaker 1: admit everything and go to jail and deny cent and 946 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,320 Speaker 1: On had anything to do with it. The group began 947 00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,400 Speaker 1: stockpiling hundreds of firearms. By ninety eight, they had more 948 00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:20,360 Speaker 1: than two hundred thousand dollars and guns. One cult newsletter explained, 949 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:28,640 Speaker 1: We're concerned about the rising crime rate. Look, with crime 950 00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:30,920 Speaker 1: the way it is, can you afford not to have 951 00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:36,920 Speaker 1: a marine corps? Right? You would do it if you could? Yeah, 952 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:41,279 Speaker 1: I mean who wouldn't exactly? Who amongst us? Who amongst us? 953 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:46,280 Speaker 1: In Night Angry, in a spate of negative news broadcast 954 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,719 Speaker 1: by ABC affiliates, a number of Sinnonites bought stock in 955 00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,160 Speaker 1: ABC and attended a stockholders meeting. They read out the 956 00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,480 Speaker 1: names of other ABC stockholders and identified themselves as members 957 00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:00,080 Speaker 1: of a group called Murder Incorporated. Then they asked the 958 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:05,280 Speaker 1: boat members if their wives had bodyguards. So normal ship, Paul, 959 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:20,719 Speaker 1: just doing normal drug abuse? Wow, this is the boldest YEA, yeah, 960 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,720 Speaker 1: I just don't have any fox together. I have never 961 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:29,560 Speaker 1: heard of like this. I mean, like it's it's it's 962 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,640 Speaker 1: the first time I've been impressed since scientology, Like the 963 00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:40,280 Speaker 1: absolutely good God. Yeah is very tame by comparison, like, yeah, 964 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:47,000 Speaker 1: this is God. Yeah. While his followers engaged in mass violence, 965 00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,880 Speaker 1: Chuck ded Eric devoted himself to bettering his cult. It 966 00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,680 Speaker 1: had become clear to him with all of Synanon's issues 967 00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:56,839 Speaker 1: with troubled teens, that kids were problematic. Teenaged addicts were 968 00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:00,640 Speaker 1: at least profitable though right the children of cold leaders, though, 969 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,040 Speaker 1: we're just a drain on resources until they were old 970 00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,480 Speaker 1: enough to become unpaid labor. So he had to get 971 00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:09,720 Speaker 1: rid of children from Cabinet magazine. Quote in a speech 972 00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:14,040 Speaker 1: he gave on the wire, he announced, there's no profit 973 00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,720 Speaker 1: to this community and raising our own children. Every baby 974 00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,000 Speaker 1: that we indulge a cent and on female with takes 975 00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:20,799 Speaker 1: up a bed and somewhere between a hundred and two 976 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,480 Speaker 1: thousand dollars worth of energy. To those who claimed they 977 00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,360 Speaker 1: wanted to have a baby, he explained to the experience 978 00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,520 Speaker 1: was greatly overrated. I understand it's more like crapping a 979 00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:40,120 Speaker 1: football than anything else. Amazing, dude, I mean, look, it 980 00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,360 Speaker 1: was men referring to women as females a problem and 981 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:48,839 Speaker 1: a problem now. Yeah, it wasn't long before Debtoric came 982 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,160 Speaker 1: up with a practicable solution. All male members would receive 983 00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:57,400 Speaker 1: the sectomes Pregnant females were ordered to have abortions, so 984 00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:01,719 Speaker 1: mandatory of aseectomes and abortions. Some agreed, immediately rushing to 985 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,880 Speaker 1: sentan On's hospital. Oh they had a hospital. Others need 986 00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,080 Speaker 1: others needed to be gamed into him. We're talking about 987 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:17,080 Speaker 1: the game here regarding the baby band dedorick opined. Nothing 988 00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,800 Speaker 1: is sacred just because it's been done for a million years. 989 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,680 Speaker 1: Curiously enough, only Detoric himself failed to receive the snip, 990 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,120 Speaker 1: but then he was having his own problems. In the 991 00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,920 Speaker 1: nine seven, Betty died and Dedoric found himself alone. He 992 00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,000 Speaker 1: immediately announced that he would accept applications from any woman 993 00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,040 Speaker 1: who wanted to marry him. Six applied, and he eventually 994 00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,960 Speaker 1: chose a thirty one year old. He was so delighted 995 00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,400 Speaker 1: with the experiment that he ordered all married couples to 996 00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,440 Speaker 1: take separation vowels and pick a new mate every three years. 997 00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,720 Speaker 1: His wife dies, he gets married to someone half his age, 998 00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:51,840 Speaker 1: and then it's like, this is great. Everyone has to 999 00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,000 Speaker 1: get divorced immediately and marry someone new every three years. Now, 1000 00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,600 Speaker 1: uh fucking amazing. Now. All these shifts in policy, like 1001 00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:04,720 Speaker 1: the banning of cigarettes, caused some members to leave the cult, 1002 00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,120 Speaker 1: but new people kept joining, and the more ridiculous rules 1003 00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,359 Speaker 1: Charles put in place the more devoted and unhinged. Those 1004 00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:17,800 Speaker 1: who remained became question like that is there any type 1005 00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,600 Speaker 1: of fair game? And these people leave like in scientology 1006 00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,200 Speaker 1: or they or they're just like we're about to talk 1007 00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:28,240 Speaker 1: to that again, people who have feared. The second group 1008 00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,560 Speaker 1: of people after teenagers that they use violence on is 1009 00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,720 Speaker 1: split ease, which are people who try to leave because 1010 00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,200 Speaker 1: they're stealing from the cultum. This is like the really 1011 00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,320 Speaker 1: this is getting down into the real depths of of 1012 00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,520 Speaker 1: the sadness here of like the people that are attracted 1013 00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,120 Speaker 1: to this kind of thing, like truly broken people and 1014 00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,200 Speaker 1: yet having them. This is this is always, always, always 1015 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:53,640 Speaker 1: at the core of these these fucking cults is the 1016 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,960 Speaker 1: preying on people who are having a hard time. It's 1017 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,760 Speaker 1: every time I think about it, it's so like you 1018 00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,320 Speaker 1: are a truly depraved human being if you're if you're 1019 00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,600 Speaker 1: doing this, and it's it's it's interesting because, um, you 1020 00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,400 Speaker 1: know that that book with the kid who grew up 1021 00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,160 Speaker 1: and sent it on his memoir he talks about his 1022 00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:13,840 Speaker 1: mom and his dad. He barely knew his dad, but 1023 00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,400 Speaker 1: his dad was a heroin addict and his mom said 1024 00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,280 Speaker 1: he would have died from addiction. If he hadn't found 1025 00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,960 Speaker 1: the cult. His mom, though, was a square, and she 1026 00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:23,880 Speaker 1: got into it. She had been she went to Berkeley. 1027 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,840 Speaker 1: She was an activist at Berkeley the whole of like 1028 00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:29,000 Speaker 1: the Raging sixties. She was like an activist against the guys. 1029 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,080 Speaker 1: She got tear gassed a bunch of times. She gets 1030 00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,920 Speaker 1: traumatized as an activist. She falls in love with this 1031 00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,520 Speaker 1: guy who has an addiction, and they get into the 1032 00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:40,600 Speaker 1: cult to save him and Bush because she's so frightened 1033 00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,240 Speaker 1: and like angry at the world and so so disgusted 1034 00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,680 Speaker 1: with regular society. And it is like these people, Yeah, 1035 00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:51,720 Speaker 1: that that's what you said. Um, it just breaks it 1036 00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,040 Speaker 1: does It's I mean, the human the human shrapnel caused 1037 00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:59,560 Speaker 1: by this organization is Titanic. As the nineteen seventies rolled 1038 00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,120 Speaker 1: to a club, the former drug addiction self help groups 1039 00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:04,960 Speaker 1: started to morph into a doomsday cult. This was partly 1040 00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,480 Speaker 1: the natural extension of Dedrick's policy of having members separate 1041 00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,080 Speaker 1: their lives entirely from family and friends and work outside 1042 00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:14,920 Speaker 1: the colt a we they attitude formed, people grew paranoid 1043 00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,160 Speaker 1: and increasingly assaulted outsiders near synan On property. That's why 1044 00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,360 Speaker 1: they started attacking people like park nearby. It's like any 1045 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,760 Speaker 1: outsider who comes near as a danger. This attitude was 1046 00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,919 Speaker 1: reinforced by the fact that in ninety seven, the church 1047 00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,640 Speaker 1: picked up its most dedicated enemy, the man who would 1048 00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,520 Speaker 1: eventually kill it, Paul Morants. Like most people in l A, 1049 00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,160 Speaker 1: Paul had held a reandering career as a screenwriter and 1050 00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:38,760 Speaker 1: a journalist while paying the bills. His main job was 1051 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,360 Speaker 1: an attorney um. He was first hired by a former 1052 00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,000 Speaker 1: member who claimed the Colt had abducted and brainwashed her 1053 00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,760 Speaker 1: when she tried to leave. He won a three hundred 1054 00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,480 Speaker 1: thousand dollar judgment in this case, which sent Dedoric into 1055 00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,919 Speaker 1: a rage. So Chuck start or Paul starts taking other 1056 00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,040 Speaker 1: clients who have like who are people who tried to leave, 1057 00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,240 Speaker 1: who have been abused by the church, and like kind 1058 00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,160 Speaker 1: of going to war against the church. So Chuck gets 1059 01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,720 Speaker 1: on the wire and he announces to every synnon member 1060 01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,800 Speaker 1: that the organization had what he called a new religious posture. Quote, 1061 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,120 Speaker 1: We're not going to mess with the old time turn 1062 01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:13,439 Speaker 1: the other cheek religious postures. Our religious posture is don't 1063 01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,520 Speaker 1: mess with us. You can get killed dead, literally dead. 1064 01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,000 Speaker 1: I am quite willing to break some lawyer's legs and 1065 01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,120 Speaker 1: next break his wife's legs and threatened to cut their 1066 01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:23,600 Speaker 1: child's arm off. That is the end of that lawyer. 1067 01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,160 Speaker 1: That is a very satisfactory, humane way of transmitting information. 1068 01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,560 Speaker 1: I really do want an ear in a glass of 1069 01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:34,720 Speaker 1: alcohol on my desk. Yes, indeed, bring me an ear 1070 01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:43,760 Speaker 1: Jesus christ Man. And again, this is all recorded, Yes, 1071 01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:47,880 Speaker 1: this is this is all recorded going out to places 1072 01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:52,760 Speaker 1: around the country. This is no. This is the Chuck program. Paul. 1073 01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,120 Speaker 1: I'm not a law knower, um, but it seems like 1074 01:00:56,200 --> 01:01:00,680 Speaker 1: that might cross the legal boundary over to incitement. Case 1075 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,760 Speaker 1: could be made. The case could be made. Paul was 1076 01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,320 Speaker 1: certainly worried, and he had reason to be. A few 1077 01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,280 Speaker 1: weeks earlier, the Imperial Marines had gone after an Apple 1078 01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,680 Speaker 1: State named Phil, who had fled the Colt along with 1079 01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,360 Speaker 1: a female cult member and her two children. Now Michael Joeett, 1080 01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:18,760 Speaker 1: the kid we heard from earlier, was one of those 1081 01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,000 Speaker 1: two children. Phil had become and like the months after 1082 01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,400 Speaker 1: they leave the Colt, and he's like learning about the world. 1083 01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,040 Speaker 1: Phil had been almost like a surrogate dad to him, 1084 01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,560 Speaker 1: and when he was at home with his brother Sinnon 1085 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,640 Speaker 1: came for Phil because he was in an Apple state, 1086 01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,240 Speaker 1: and this is what how Mickel recalled what happened next, 1087 01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:39,760 Speaker 1: they being the sinn Anon Assault team, are holding skinny 1088 01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,040 Speaker 1: black clubs that look a little like baseball bats. One 1089 01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,480 Speaker 1: carries his low in his hand and the other taps 1090 01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:47,840 Speaker 1: his softly on the ground as they walk up behind Phil. 1091 01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,040 Speaker 1: At first, I think maybe they're playing a joke on him, 1092 01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,280 Speaker 1: because I've heard people play dress up on Halloween, even 1093 01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,120 Speaker 1: though we never did it and sent it on. Why 1094 01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,480 Speaker 1: else would they have those masks over their faces. Why 1095 01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,880 Speaker 1: else would they hide behind the orange camper van where 1096 01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,080 Speaker 1: Phil can't see them. Phil looks up at me and 1097 01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,520 Speaker 1: smiles when he gets out. Before I can say anything, 1098 01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:05,240 Speaker 1: one of the men runs up behind and hits him 1099 01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,040 Speaker 1: over the head. Phil falls onto the ground. It's weird 1100 01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,480 Speaker 1: how he falls, like a stack of Lincoln logs that's 1101 01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,280 Speaker 1: been topped tipped over. His body folds into a weird 1102 01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,040 Speaker 1: shape with his legs sticking out under him. I jumped 1103 01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:17,919 Speaker 1: back and look around the doorway to see if anyone 1104 01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:19,560 Speaker 1: else saw it. I don't know if I'm supposed to 1105 01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,280 Speaker 1: scream or run or yell, but I don't want them 1106 01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:23,919 Speaker 1: in to see me. The second man hits Phil's legs, 1107 01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,200 Speaker 1: which seemed to bounce around like rubber. One of his 1108 01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:28,680 Speaker 1: gray sneakers flies off. Phil puts his head between his 1109 01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,919 Speaker 1: arms and his face down and starts to scream. They 1110 01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,160 Speaker 1: nearly kill Phil. He's in the He's in a coma 1111 01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,200 Speaker 1: for a week. Um, like he he comes very close 1112 01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,160 Speaker 1: to that. He does survive, he does get better. Um, 1113 01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:43,200 Speaker 1: but he could well have died. And they clearly were 1114 01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,480 Speaker 1: willing to kill him. You know, you're hitting people in 1115 01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:47,600 Speaker 1: the head with a bat, you're accepting, Yeah, we might 1116 01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:52,000 Speaker 1: kill his motherfucker. Um. So Phil's story was fresh in 1117 01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,360 Speaker 1: Paul's Paul Morant's mind when he learns that he's made 1118 01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,919 Speaker 1: Chuck dead Rich's shit list. So, first off, Paul buys 1119 01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,320 Speaker 1: a gun to protect himself. Uh, he checks under his 1120 01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:04,480 Speaker 1: car for bombs before starting it. But when Sinnon eventually 1121 01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,480 Speaker 1: makes their move against Paul, it is in a way 1122 01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:09,280 Speaker 1: that he could not have expected and that no one 1123 01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,600 Speaker 1: could have expected, because I've never heard of anyone outside 1124 01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:13,919 Speaker 1: of a James Bond movie doing this ship. I'm gonna 1125 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,560 Speaker 1: quote from l A magazine here. As Moran's returned to 1126 01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:19,920 Speaker 1: his small home in the Pacific Palisades the evening of 1127 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,120 Speaker 1: October eleventh, ninety seven. He was eager to turn on 1128 01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,760 Speaker 1: the TV and relax over Game one of the World Series, 1129 01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,680 Speaker 1: the Dodgers versus the Yankees for one moment. I'm not 1130 01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,200 Speaker 1: going to think about sinnan on, he told himself. I'm 1131 01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,440 Speaker 1: just going to watch the baseball game. Morans placed his 1132 01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:36,480 Speaker 1: notebooks on the kitchen table and walked to the mail 1133 01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,320 Speaker 1: slot by his front door. Through the grill of the mailbox, 1134 01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,760 Speaker 1: he could see the outline of an unusually shaped package 1135 01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,880 Speaker 1: a scarf. Perhaps it was hard to tell without his glasses. 1136 01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,680 Speaker 1: Morans remembers not so much the pain as the rattlesnake 1137 01:03:48,760 --> 01:04:04,720 Speaker 1: sank his fings into his outstretched rattlesnake him rattles Wow, 1138 01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,120 Speaker 1: he remembers, not so much the pain, but the regret. 1139 01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,200 Speaker 1: They don't get me with this. I'm not that stupid, 1140 01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,000 Speaker 1: he was thinking. Then he heard a scream and realized 1141 01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:14,959 Speaker 1: it was his own the four and a half put 1142 01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:19,600 Speaker 1: foot reptile. It's rattler removed to keep it quiet, dropped 1143 01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,800 Speaker 1: to the floor, and recoiled. Morants dashed out the back door, 1144 01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,520 Speaker 1: yelling call the police, Call an ambulance. I've been bitten 1145 01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:27,760 Speaker 1: by a rattlesnake. It's sent it On, sent it On, 1146 01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,680 Speaker 1: got me. They cut off a rattlesnakes fucking tail and 1147 01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:37,880 Speaker 1: put it in the mailbox. That's out of its goddamn mind. 1148 01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:43,480 Speaker 1: They even hurt a snake. Yeah, that snake didn't do anything. 1149 01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:50,120 Speaker 1: Snake Paul nearly died. He was in the hospital for 1150 01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:54,280 Speaker 1: eleven days. The attack was so bizarre and extreme that 1151 01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:58,080 Speaker 1: it went nineteen seventies virulent once. And this was sent 1152 01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:01,240 Speaker 1: it On's big funk up. You can't ignore a rattlesnake 1153 01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:07,240 Speaker 1: assassination of news anchor. Walter Cronkite called it bizarre even 1154 01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:11,960 Speaker 1: by cult standards, which is a good tagline for the 1155 01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:19,440 Speaker 1: whole Sinnon story. It's weird for colors. Yeah, now uh. 1156 01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,840 Speaker 1: There were criminal trials, of course, for conspiracy to commit murder. 1157 01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,600 Speaker 1: When he was deposed, Chuck Deteric claim to only have 1158 01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,840 Speaker 1: a quote very dim memory of nineteen seventies seven due 1159 01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:34,240 Speaker 1: to a series of strokes. Even so, his ego was 1160 01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,040 Speaker 1: too great for him to claim total ignorance of crimes 1161 01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:42,160 Speaker 1: committed by his followers. He told the court this most 1162 01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:44,400 Speaker 1: of what Sinninon did in nineteen seventy seven. At least 1163 01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,240 Speaker 1: what I knew about I approved of, because, as I 1164 01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,640 Speaker 1: pointed out before over and over again, I'm one hell 1165 01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:50,640 Speaker 1: of a good executive. And not too much ever went 1166 01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,680 Speaker 1: on in the organization that I ran that I didn't 1167 01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,080 Speaker 1: approve of. I don't know everything that went on, of course, 1168 01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,480 Speaker 1: Like so you can't. He's too much of an egomaniac 1169 01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:04,160 Speaker 1: to fully deny and assassination attempt with a Rattlesnake. It's amazing. 1170 01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:10,640 Speaker 1: Oh my god, God, he's the best ship. I want 1171 01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:13,320 Speaker 1: to statue with this guy next to my Hubbard statue 1172 01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:19,200 Speaker 1: and my eventual compound. God, this dude honestly like he's 1173 01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:23,439 Speaker 1: taking all comers. It's like he's really going for it. 1174 01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:27,640 Speaker 1: Why is he not a household name. I don't understand. 1175 01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,240 Speaker 1: It's a well because he gets stopped. I guess because 1176 01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:33,840 Speaker 1: L L R H who is never gets stopped. You know. 1177 01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:38,120 Speaker 1: That's kind of the thing. Now, there is still some 1178 01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,760 Speaker 1: debate as to whether or not Charles Debtorick explicitly ordered 1179 01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:44,960 Speaker 1: a Rattlesnake assassination or just told people he wanted this 1180 01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:49,760 Speaker 1: guy dead and somebody independently was like Rattlesnake, I mean 1181 01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,040 Speaker 1: this is the ear in the jar. Guy, I think 1182 01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,520 Speaker 1: the worst. I feel like the rattlesnake passed his lips. 1183 01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:59,080 Speaker 1: I think he said it's so weird and specific, it 1184 01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:05,240 Speaker 1: has to be Charles Dederick. You know what, Hualta. Yeah, 1185 01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:07,320 Speaker 1: that's at the very least, the cutting off the tail 1186 01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:10,680 Speaker 1: with his suggestion. M hmm. It might have been a 1187 01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:13,000 Speaker 1: pitchmating someone says rattle sneak. He's like, we're gonna have 1188 01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:15,720 Speaker 1: to deal with the rattle. Yeah, that's an idea, man, 1189 01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:18,800 Speaker 1: sort of. I didn't hear that, but if I were you, 1190 01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,440 Speaker 1: I would cut off the Yeah. If I and Minecraft 1191 01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,040 Speaker 1: were mailing a rattlesnake to a lawyer, I would cut 1192 01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:30,320 Speaker 1: its rattler off. So um. Multiple members of the cult 1193 01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:32,960 Speaker 1: were eventually arrested and sentenced for planning and executing a 1194 01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:36,320 Speaker 1: murder attempt, and the law did come for Debtoric himself 1195 01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:40,439 Speaker 1: for conspiracy to commit murder. Thirty police officers were sent 1196 01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:44,160 Speaker 1: to arrest him once the charges dropped. The prosecutor, John Watson, 1197 01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:46,640 Speaker 1: was there when Debtoric was arrested in his compound in 1198 01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,800 Speaker 1: Lake have A sou They found him quote in a stupor, 1199 01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:53,200 Speaker 1: staring straight ahead, an empty bottle of Shivas Regal in 1200 01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:57,000 Speaker 1: front of him. Oh no, he really laughed, He real laughed. 1201 01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:03,200 Speaker 1: The king, Oh, Chuck, we were so proud of you 1202 01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:06,320 Speaker 1: up till now. Um. He was so drunk he had 1203 01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,680 Speaker 1: to be carried to jail in a stretcher. This is 1204 01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,000 Speaker 1: the one time it's okay to laugh at a relapse. 1205 01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:19,240 Speaker 1: I feel like he earned it. In nineteen eighty, Debtoric 1206 01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:22,720 Speaker 1: pleaded no contest to conspiracy to commit murder. He was 1207 01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:26,080 Speaker 1: fined ten thousand dollars and sentenced to five years probation. 1208 01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:29,519 Speaker 1: Marands himself agreed to let the cult leader avoid prison 1209 01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:32,759 Speaker 1: time due to the older man's poor health. Chuck was, however, 1210 01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:35,839 Speaker 1: barred from having any further contact with a cult he'd founded, 1211 01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,160 Speaker 1: and without him senting on slowly collapsed. The I R 1212 01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:42,639 Speaker 1: S revoked its tax exempt status because it was found 1213 01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,679 Speaker 1: that they owed the I R S seven h seventeen 1214 01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,920 Speaker 1: million dollars in back taxes. A series of court battles ensued, 1215 01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:52,760 Speaker 1: organized by Debtoric successors, but in ninety four at California 1216 01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,280 Speaker 1: court ruled that sent Anon quote had a policy of 1217 01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:58,400 Speaker 1: terror and violence and a practice of quote diverting. Corporate 1218 01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:01,240 Speaker 1: resources for the enrichment of end of jewels. Sent Anon 1219 01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:05,840 Speaker 1: declared bankruptcy and in nineteen ninety one dissolved entirely. I 1220 01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:12,120 Speaker 1: think there's one branch in Germany still, yeah, ninety there's still, 1221 01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:15,719 Speaker 1: at least according to one article, there's still a branch 1222 01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:19,000 Speaker 1: in Germany. I don't think it's affiliated with like the weirdest. 1223 01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:21,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, though, Maybe look into that, maybe look 1224 01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:26,720 Speaker 1: into that. Yeah, hey, look the basic ideas circle and 1225 01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:35,040 Speaker 1: yelled at each other. Yeah, it's like having a family. Yeah. Um. 1226 01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:38,160 Speaker 1: After being convicted, de Oric moved with his new wife 1227 01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:41,760 Speaker 1: to a double wide trailer in Visalia, California, which some 1228 01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,840 Speaker 1: might argue is a fate worse than prison. Everyone I 1229 01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:47,320 Speaker 1: know who grew up in Vissally will argue that for sure. 1230 01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:54,120 Speaker 1: He died in nineteen ninety seven, almost eighty four years old. 1231 01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:56,839 Speaker 1: Despite all that had happened, he still held the respect 1232 01:09:56,840 --> 01:09:59,720 Speaker 1: of some influential people. He was mourned openly on the 1233 01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,920 Speaker 1: or of the House of Representatives by California Congressman in 1234 01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:10,000 Speaker 1: future Oakland mayor Ron Delams. Ron said, quote, Dederic distinguished 1235 01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:13,040 Speaker 1: himself in the area of drug rehabilitation and amassed great 1236 01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:16,799 Speaker 1: realp before his organization was associated with violence and tax problems, 1237 01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,320 Speaker 1: which is a hell of a way to summarize tried 1238 01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:24,720 Speaker 1: to rattle snake murder a lawyer, his approach to rehabilitating 1239 01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:27,120 Speaker 1: drug addicts has become a major parrot. I'm for drug 1240 01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,720 Speaker 1: recovery and therapeutic communities the world over. And here's the 1241 01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:34,200 Speaker 1: most fucked up part of the whole story. That's not inaccurate. 1242 01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:37,240 Speaker 1: It's not a good thing, like Ron Delams thinks, but 1243 01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:41,759 Speaker 1: it's not inaccurate. Synanon remain remains maybe the most influential 1244 01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:44,560 Speaker 1: drug abuse treatment program of all time. You remember the 1245 01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:49,920 Speaker 1: Punk Squad, Paul, But what what? What? What do you 1246 01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,360 Speaker 1: ask me? Do you remember the punk squad? Right? I 1247 01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:54,639 Speaker 1: do remember the Punk Squad. They're never far from my thoughts, 1248 01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:57,400 Speaker 1: never far from your thoughts. Have you heard of the 1249 01:10:57,439 --> 01:11:02,240 Speaker 1: troubled teen industry? No? I have not. You know those 1250 01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:04,840 Speaker 1: camps where they send teenagers who were delinquents and like 1251 01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,599 Speaker 1: a lot of like beaten and molested and murdered. Paris 1252 01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,919 Speaker 1: Alton's doing a documentary about them. Dr Phil was involved 1253 01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:14,879 Speaker 1: with them, these like ranches and the cans. It starts 1254 01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:18,080 Speaker 1: because of Synanon. The first variants of that is the 1255 01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,679 Speaker 1: punk squad. And I'm gonna quote from Mother Jones here. 1256 01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:25,320 Speaker 1: No fewer than fifty programs can trace their treatment philosophy 1257 01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:28,639 Speaker 1: directly or indirectly to. An anti drug cult called Synanon, 1258 01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:32,360 Speaker 1: founded in ninety sold itself as a cure for heroin 1259 01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,120 Speaker 1: hardcore heroin addicts who could help each other by breaking 1260 01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:39,120 Speaker 1: new initiates with isolation, humiliation, hard labor, and sleep deprivation. 1261 01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,679 Speaker 1: Studies found that Synonons and counter groups could produce lasting 1262 01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:45,240 Speaker 1: psychological harm, and that only ten to fift of the 1263 01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:50,920 Speaker 1: addicts who participated and then recovered. But despite not working, 1264 01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,600 Speaker 1: and despite the guy who dreamed of synonyms treatments you 1265 01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:56,200 Speaker 1: know had also tried to murder a lawyer with a rattlesnake, 1266 01:11:56,439 --> 01:12:00,320 Speaker 1: they remained the basis for the multimillion dollar teen troubled 1267 01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:03,760 Speaker 1: teen industry to this day. In nineteen seventy one, the 1268 01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:06,360 Speaker 1: federal government gave a grant to a group called the Seed, 1269 01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,880 Speaker 1: which applied Synanon tactics to troubled teens, many of whom 1270 01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:13,760 Speaker 1: were only suspected of having tried drugs. In nineteen seventy four, 1271 01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:16,920 Speaker 1: Congress opened an investigation into the Seed, finding it had 1272 01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:21,000 Speaker 1: used methods quote similar to highly refined brainwashing techniques employed 1273 01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:27,920 Speaker 1: by the North Koreans. Fearful of bad PR, supporters of 1274 01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:31,240 Speaker 1: the Seeds spun off a copycat group called Straight Inc. 1275 01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:35,160 Speaker 1: This is where Scared straight comes from. Okay, wait this 1276 01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:39,519 Speaker 1: how how far is this go? But I mean, but 1277 01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:42,080 Speaker 1: I mean this is the seventies. This is when centenons 1278 01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:44,280 Speaker 1: at its peak is people are spinning off from it. 1279 01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:46,720 Speaker 1: So people picked up the punk squad and ran with it, 1280 01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:49,120 Speaker 1: with these others and ran with it. Yes, and this 1281 01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:51,400 Speaker 1: I think in the eighties when um, well no, this 1282 01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,559 Speaker 1: in the seventies. Still when I'm uh, Straight Inc. Is found. 1283 01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:57,200 Speaker 1: And the guy who found Straight Inc. Is a fellow 1284 01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:59,760 Speaker 1: named Mel Simbler, who is a close friend of the 1285 01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:03,720 Speaker 1: family and became the GOP's two thousand finance chair. He 1286 01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:07,920 Speaker 1: also headed Scooter Libby's Legal Defense Fund. Now Males Abused 1287 01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:10,439 Speaker 1: Teens Away from Drugs group was a hit. By the 1288 01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:13,640 Speaker 1: mid nineteen eighties with Cynon and Shambles, Straight Inc. Was 1289 01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:17,200 Speaker 1: operating in seven states. Nancy Reagan declared it her favorite 1290 01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:21,280 Speaker 1: anti drug program. Of course, Straight Inc. Was a was 1291 01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:24,840 Speaker 1: a factory for child molestation, physical abuse. The group was 1292 01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:27,720 Speaker 1: so inundated with millions of dollars in legal judgments that 1293 01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:31,040 Speaker 1: it had to close in ninetee. But because the premise 1294 01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:33,639 Speaker 1: of Straight Inc. Was so replicable and profitable, and because 1295 01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:36,240 Speaker 1: the Republican Party was now in bed with this whole 1296 01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,560 Speaker 1: growing industry, um and drugs, hit were such a boogeyman 1297 01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:43,120 Speaker 1: of Republicans in this period. State after state carved exemptions 1298 01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:46,280 Speaker 1: into state laws that allowed programs shut down from mass 1299 01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:50,080 Speaker 1: child abuse to reopen under different names with the same 1300 01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:55,599 Speaker 1: staff as Troubled Teen and Scared Straight programs made hundreds 1301 01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:57,600 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars. They spread beyond the borders of 1302 01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:01,760 Speaker 1: the United States from Mother Jones. Confrontation and humiliation are 1303 01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:04,599 Speaker 1: also used by religious programs such as in Sque La 1304 01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:08,200 Speaker 1: Caribe in the Dominican Republic, and myriad emotional growth boarding 1305 01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:12,040 Speaker 1: schools affiliated with the Worldwide Association of Specialty Programs w 1306 01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:16,160 Speaker 1: w ASP, such as Tranquility Bay in Jamaica. W w 1307 01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:19,200 Speaker 1: ASPS president told me that the organization took a little 1308 01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:22,320 Speaker 1: bit of what Synanon did. Lobbying by well connected supporters 1309 01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:25,839 Speaker 1: such as w w ASP founder Robert Lickfield, who, like Simbler, 1310 01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:29,400 Speaker 1: is a fundraiser for Republican presidential aspirate Mint Romney has 1311 01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:33,080 Speaker 1: kept stant regulators at bay and bought blocked federal regulation entirely. 1312 01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:35,839 Speaker 1: Utah's where a lot of these are based. By the nineties, 1313 01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:38,880 Speaker 1: tough law had tough love had spawned military style boot 1314 01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:42,640 Speaker 1: camps and wilderness programs that thrust kids into extreme survival scenarios. 1315 01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,520 Speaker 1: At least three dozen teams have died in these programs, 1316 01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:48,960 Speaker 1: often because staff cy medical complaints is malingering. This May, 1317 01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:51,599 Speaker 1: a fifteen year old boy died from a staff infection 1318 01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:54,800 Speaker 1: at a Colorado wilderness program. His family claims his pleas 1319 01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:57,360 Speaker 1: for help were ignored. In his final letter to his mother, 1320 01:14:57,439 --> 01:15:00,080 Speaker 1: he wrote, they found my weakness and I want to 1321 01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:09,000 Speaker 1: go home. Oh God damn. Yeah. Like the idea of 1322 01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:12,800 Speaker 1: of first of all, stay away from any organization called 1323 01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:20,080 Speaker 1: WASP that's terrified to be honest, Straight, to be honest, 1324 01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:26,280 Speaker 1: Straight inc We'll get right away from Straight Incorporated. None 1325 01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:29,519 Speaker 1: of you's gonna come there. I mean, you know, the 1326 01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:32,920 Speaker 1: idea of of Like when I was a kid, it 1327 01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:35,600 Speaker 1: was this was never a threat for me, but the 1328 01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,439 Speaker 1: threat you would always here was military school. Yeah, if 1329 01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:39,880 Speaker 1: you funked up, that's where you were going to end 1330 01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:43,840 Speaker 1: up going. But you know, there's there's a certain amount 1331 01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:48,080 Speaker 1: of leeway. I guess we give the military for completely 1332 01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:52,200 Speaker 1: breaking someone down, but just to send them to some 1333 01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,120 Speaker 1: weird camp where I mean, of course I never thought 1334 01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:58,439 Speaker 1: about it. But of course they were molesting kids, of course, 1335 01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:02,520 Speaker 1: be like, of course it wasn't just like drill sergeants 1336 01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:05,080 Speaker 1: yelling at them. Of course there was this horrible ship 1337 01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:07,880 Speaker 1: going and they weren't molesting that. They were letting them 1338 01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:11,679 Speaker 1: die of exposure in the wilderness of Utah. Like, yeah, 1339 01:16:12,360 --> 01:16:14,360 Speaker 1: a friend growing up that got sent to a ranch 1340 01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:16,519 Speaker 1: in Utah and they left her outside for a week 1341 01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:18,560 Speaker 1: with no food, no water, and she had defend for 1342 01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:21,600 Speaker 1: herself and definitely could have died. That's just like not 1343 01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:24,400 Speaker 1: a thing that most people need to know, you know 1344 01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:27,439 Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, I don't think that's going to 1345 01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:32,000 Speaker 1: help you avoid crimes. Most people are not adventurers, and 1346 01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:34,719 Speaker 1: they don't they don't need to know how to survive 1347 01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:38,680 Speaker 1: in the fucking wilderness. Well, and adventurers learn how to 1348 01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:41,880 Speaker 1: survive in the wilderness, not by being left to die 1349 01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:45,599 Speaker 1: of exposure with small children, generally by training and how 1350 01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:52,360 Speaker 1: to make that experience not be dangerous or as dangerous rights. Yeah, um, 1351 01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:57,160 Speaker 1: it's good. It's fucking rad. It's a situation that just 1352 01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:01,120 Speaker 1: gets a little worse every year. And because the entire 1353 01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:07,320 Speaker 1: Republican Party is heavily invested in, um, the troubled teen industry, 1354 01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:10,400 Speaker 1: every time there are attempts to regulate it, they get 1355 01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:13,320 Speaker 1: shot down. And because the Democratic Party is invested in 1356 01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:17,600 Speaker 1: continuing the criminalization of substances, kids keep getting sent to 1357 01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:20,160 Speaker 1: horribly abusive programs they have no choice to be in, 1358 01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:23,640 Speaker 1: where they are then molested, in mass or murdered. Now 1359 01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:27,760 Speaker 1: that's what I call bipartisanship. Thanks Chuck de Eric, you 1360 01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:32,160 Speaker 1: made it possible for everybody. You united a nation. We 1361 01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:39,000 Speaker 1: couldn't have done it without you. Buddy, oh Man, who boy, God, 1362 01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:44,160 Speaker 1: what a guy, what a dude? What I fell just 1363 01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:53,280 Speaker 1: flabbergasted like he from the just the sheer, the sheer 1364 01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:57,960 Speaker 1: uh enormity of the moves from one thing to another 1365 01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:02,719 Speaker 1: as you went along. Is I mean this dude everyone 1366 01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:05,200 Speaker 1: should know about him and I I yeah, Robert, I 1367 01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:09,280 Speaker 1: salute you, I salute I have to say, you know, 1368 01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:11,559 Speaker 1: most of the bastards we talked about don't get any 1369 01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:13,760 Speaker 1: kind of come uppance. Uh, And I would have to 1370 01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,880 Speaker 1: say that, like, you know, he's right up there, like 1371 01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:20,000 Speaker 1: Saddam Hussein, you know, getting getting hung in public. I 1372 01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:23,040 Speaker 1: would say having to live in Visalia is is definitely 1373 01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:26,160 Speaker 1: a public execution level level punishment. So at least there's 1374 01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:31,360 Speaker 1: mean the the Shivas regal relapse is like it's like 1375 01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:37,040 Speaker 1: it's scripted, like it's it's There is there no movie 1376 01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:40,880 Speaker 1: about this guy other than the one there is there 1377 01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:43,400 Speaker 1: is a movie with Earth to Kid about this guy. 1378 01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:46,360 Speaker 1: I don't think there's been one. I know there's been. 1379 01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:48,720 Speaker 1: I think there's been a couple of documentaries. I'm sure 1380 01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:50,439 Speaker 1: there's been a couple of documentaries. I believe I heard 1381 01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:52,400 Speaker 1: about at least one, But I don't think there's another, 1382 01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:56,599 Speaker 1: like fictional movie about it where Eartha Kit plays his wife. Um, 1383 01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:02,200 Speaker 1: I wonder what she's about that when you know the 1384 01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:07,280 Speaker 1: rattlesnake thing happens, you know what. Taking this one off 1385 01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:15,400 Speaker 1: my reel, he had that struck from my resume. It 1386 01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:19,040 Speaker 1: was a good earth a Kid. Thank you, well, Paul, 1387 01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:23,439 Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for Behind the Bastards this week. Well, 1388 01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:26,640 Speaker 1: thank you for having me. And honestly, like I am so. 1389 01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:29,080 Speaker 1: I'm glad I didn't know anything about this guy. I 1390 01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:32,280 Speaker 1: was thrilled to learn about him from you. What a story. 1391 01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:37,600 Speaker 1: It's really insane. Jesus, just man, I didn't. This was 1392 01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,000 Speaker 1: one that, like someone on Reddit was like, hey, you 1393 01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,720 Speaker 1: should check out this story to do an episode, and 1394 01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:46,280 Speaker 1: like I read halfway through one article and I was like, well, 1395 01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:49,880 Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta reach out to Paul. I gotta 1396 01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:54,000 Speaker 1: tell him about this rattlesnake ship. I am. You thought 1397 01:19:55,240 --> 01:20:01,120 Speaker 1: he's got a lot of that, and I didn't. Man, well, um, 1398 01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:06,840 Speaker 1: all right, uh we did plug holes rights. My memory 1399 01:20:06,960 --> 01:20:19,320 Speaker 1: is broken. Plug plug Hey everybody, Um, I'm at p 1400 01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:22,840 Speaker 1: F Tompkins on Twitter and Instagram. I will always be 1401 01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:27,240 Speaker 1: talking about myself, always self promoting. That's where if you 1402 01:20:27,280 --> 01:20:30,200 Speaker 1: want to find out who the funk I am, go 1403 01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,559 Speaker 1: there and you'll find out, I promise. And you can 1404 01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:36,520 Speaker 1: also find out his enemies. If you have a rattlesnake 1405 01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:40,719 Speaker 1: you're willing to send them. That's true. I'm not saying 1406 01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,519 Speaker 1: that that's going to happen. It's something that could happen. 1407 01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:46,640 Speaker 1: It's something that could happen. Right, you can't vouch for 1408 01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:49,200 Speaker 1: all of the people who are fans of you, They 1409 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:55,880 Speaker 1: might say, right now you know and probably well, you 1410 01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:58,479 Speaker 1: can find me on this podcast, which you know how 1411 01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:00,840 Speaker 1: to find because you just listen to it for three hours. 1412 01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,000 Speaker 1: You can also find my book After the Revolution in 1413 01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:07,920 Speaker 1: audio form. It's podcasts. Just look for After the Revolution. 1414 01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:10,240 Speaker 1: You can also find the e pub of the book 1415 01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:14,200 Speaker 1: at a t r book dot com. That's a t 1416 01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:18,280 Speaker 1: R book dot com. Check it out. Uh, go with 1417 01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:21,440 Speaker 1: God and figure out who he wants you to rattlesnake 1418 01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:21,840 Speaker 1: to death.