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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,

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Speaker 2: and speaker.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician,

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Speaker 3: writer and course creator. We are two working parents who

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Speaker 3: love our careers and our families.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about

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Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.

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Speaker 2: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.

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Speaker 1: Term career goals.

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Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.

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Speaker 2: This episode is airing in late March of twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Sarah and I are recording this intro in Q and

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Speaker 2: A to gather in Vero Beach, Florida. We're here on

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Speaker 2: our annual podcasting retreat. We've been coming up with great

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Speaker 2: ideas to share with you the rest of the year

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Speaker 2: and having a fun time as well.

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Speaker 1: So today's episodes, Sarah is.

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Speaker 2: Going to be interviewing Aaron mcoff, who is the author

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Speaker 2: of the new book The Secret Language of Work. So

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Speaker 2: we're very intrigued about that idea and looking forward to

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Speaker 2: hearing what Erin is going to share with us about

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Speaker 2: how we can understand the secret language of work and

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Speaker 2: maybe use it to help advance our careers as well. So, Sarah,

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Speaker 2: does medicine kind of have a secret language that people

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Speaker 2: don't know about.

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Speaker 4: I'm not even sure if it's secret. I thought it

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Speaker 4: was a secret, Okay. I feel like half of the

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Speaker 4: point of medical school is learning to speak medical.

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Speaker 3: I mean that's a little bit of an exaggeration, but

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Speaker 3: the vocabulary is immense. The way you describe patients as immense.

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Speaker 3: There's so much slang, there's.

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Speaker 4: So many abbreviations people use. And so I watched The

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Speaker 4: Pit and I love it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an HBO TV show that features Noah Wiley,

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Speaker 3: who was an er. If you're not watching it, and

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Speaker 3: I have found that there is a stark divide, not universally,

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Speaker 3: but in general. People who are medical or have any

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Speaker 3: kind of a medical background, maybe even in their own

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Speaker 3: medical complications, they love it, they eat it up, and

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Speaker 3: then people who have really no medical background are completely

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Speaker 3: bored by it because there is so much medical speak

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Speaker 3: that it's just.

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Speaker 4: Easy to get long.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I always love the language of the person is

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Speaker 2: presenting with this like of presenting, like where did that

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Speaker 2: come from?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Like that to me, that's like England.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he present the patient or you know, the

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Speaker 3: residents presenting, the medicindents presenting, and like.

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Speaker 4: That sounds normal to me, but it sounds weird to

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Speaker 4: you writing.

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Speaker 1: You don't.

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Speaker 4: You do not speak the language of medicine fluently.

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Speaker 1: No, I do not. Although script for prescription. Well that

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Speaker 1: was fun to learn that one.

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Speaker 4: That's so funny. Yeah, and it's funny. Probably any of

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Speaker 4: them that you say.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess that is jargon, but

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Speaker 3: I don't even hear it as jargon anymore.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So a lot of semi secret medical language. I guess.

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Speaker 2: Writing definitely has its own language. There are certain things

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Speaker 2: with it, various conventions. When you're in the journalism or

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Speaker 2: like the freelance writing world, a lot of publications pay

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Speaker 2: a rate per word, and so people who don't know

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Speaker 2: about the world of content creation are always like, well,

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Speaker 2: wouldn't you write more words to get paid more?

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Speaker 1: It's like, well, no, that's not how it works.

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Speaker 2: You're just recognizing that a one thousand word story takes

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Speaker 2: a lot less work than a five thousand word stories.

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Speaker 2: So by paying by the word, you set a rate

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Speaker 2: that is appropriate for the different links of a thing.

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Speaker 2: You are writing for it, and you are always contracted

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Speaker 2: for a certain number of words. It's not like you

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Speaker 2: just turn in whatever you want and get paid that

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Speaker 2: number of dollars per word for.

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Speaker 3: And even vocabulary there, Like you have a concept in

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Speaker 3: your head of what a one thousand word piece would be,

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Speaker 3: and I have no I mean, I have no idea

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Speaker 3: how any words or in a random blog post or not.

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Speaker 2: Don't use that language or think about that concept. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'd probably do it less now. I mean when I

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Speaker 2: was doing more of that, I would definitely have a sense. Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is an eight hundred word article, this is a

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Speaker 2: twelve hundred word article, This is now set up to

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Speaker 2: be a twenty five hundred word or this is a

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Speaker 2: four thousand word feature piece for a magazine. So you

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Speaker 2: do various different amounts of stuff that can go into it,

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Speaker 2: like interviews or material you can't it's not even the

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Speaker 2: same amount of stuff.

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Speaker 4: That would be done for it. But I know my

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Speaker 4: book was like sixty thousand words.

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Speaker 2: A book is about sixty thousand words, usually fifty thousand

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Speaker 2: to seventy five thousand for most nonfiction, and fiction can

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Speaker 2: go a bit longer than I often do. But word

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Speaker 2: counts are things that we learn in there, or just

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Speaker 2: the idea of how publishing works, like that what a

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Speaker 2: literary agent is and that you probably need one if

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Speaker 2: you are going to do a publishing deal with a

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Speaker 2: major publisher.

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Speaker 3: Or the fact that when you sell a nonfiction contract,

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Speaker 3: you don't actually write the book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you haven't written the book before. Yeah, you write

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Speaker 2: it afterwards. Fiction it's usually different. Usually you have the

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Speaker 2: manuscript with fiction, unless you are an established fiction writer,

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Speaker 2: like if you're selling the fourth book in a series.

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Speaker 4: That you know you don't actually have to write it

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Speaker 4: before you sell it.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, no, that's a Every industry has its own stuff.

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Speaker 2: And there's also the psychological secret language that I know

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Speaker 2: you guys probably talked about too, like figuring out what

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Speaker 2: people really mean by stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yes, because I mean it, and that's very important. If

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Speaker 3: you're in a high stakes meeting and someone says something

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Speaker 3: that's a little bit less overt and you don't understand it,

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Speaker 3: you can get yourself in trouble pretty quickly.

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Speaker 4: So this was a fun conversation.

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Speaker 3: We mostly focused on kind of more corporate settings, but

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Speaker 3: I mean this would also apply to freelancers that interface

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Speaker 3: with businesses and even myself in the.

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Speaker 4: Medical world as well. So I hope you enjoyed the conversation.

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Speaker 4: I thought it was fun.

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Speaker 1: Let's hear what Erin has to say.

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Speaker 3: Well, I am so excited to be here today with

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Speaker 3: Aaron McGoff, who is the founder of Advice with Aaron

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Speaker 3: and also the author of The Secret Language of Work,

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Speaker 3: which is the book and content we're really going to

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Speaker 3: focus on today. So we were excited to have Erin

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Speaker 3: on because we know that even though many of our

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Speaker 3: listeners are in maybe the later part of their careers

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Speaker 3: or are seasoned in what they do, there are still

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Speaker 3: sticky moments that we need to get through, many of

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Speaker 3: them involving different life phases like negotiating for a maternity

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Speaker 3: leave or figuring out how to get a more flexible arrangement.

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Speaker 3: And we've had so many questions along those lines that

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Speaker 3: we thought Erin would be a wonderful person to tell

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Speaker 3: talk about them.

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Speaker 4: So welcome Erin. Go ahead and introduce yourself.

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Speaker 5: Hey, yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm

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Speaker 5: really happy to be here. I love the podcast and

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Speaker 5: love the concept, and I'm here to be a resource

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Speaker 5: to her listeners amazing.

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Speaker 3: Can you start by telling our listeners, I guess where

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Speaker 3: you are in your life and career journey, just so

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Speaker 3: we can understand where your perspective comes from.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely. Yes, I'm thirty, so I'm rounding a corner into

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Speaker 5: seasoned career hood. I pivoted. I originally started out my

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Speaker 5: career in the film industry. I was working in journalism.

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Speaker 5: I was a documentary filmmaker. I was a freelance video editor.

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Speaker 5: I was kind of multi hyphenated living in New York.

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Speaker 5: It was great, and then the pandemic happened, and that's

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Speaker 5: when I started advice with Aaron and it kind of

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Speaker 5: slowly grew over time, and it reached a tipping point

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Speaker 5: where I decided to dive in with two feet and

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Speaker 5: kind of take that full time because I was making

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Speaker 5: such a big impact there and I wasn't having to

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Speaker 5: deal with a lot of the politics that comes along

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Speaker 5: with the film industry. Hollywood is just not my jam really,

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Speaker 5: so I'm really happy, yeah, founding advice there, and I

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Speaker 5: have this book out now, I have a new company

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Speaker 5: called Stupid Fish. There's a lot of different things going on,

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Speaker 5: but I did recently announce that I'm pregnant too, so yeah,

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Speaker 5: that's why I was really excited to be on the

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Speaker 5: podcast today to speak to your listeners and kind of

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Speaker 5: relate to this new world of work.

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Speaker 4: That is amazing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, definitely shifts your perspective and I'm sure has given

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Speaker 3: you lots of new things to think about, even though

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you've also worked with clients or listeners in

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Speaker 3: the past that have had issues of related to pregnancy,

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Speaker 3: so this isn't the first time you've thought about those things.

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Speaker 5: No, I've been making content for working parents since day one.

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Speaker 5: One of my first videos is how to Tell your

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Speaker 5: Boss You're pregnant, so it's always been very top of mind.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I love that.

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Speaker 3: Well, before we get into specific scenarios, and maybe that

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Speaker 3: can be one of them, that's a common one that

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Speaker 3: I mean, we can all remember those moments or maybe

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Speaker 3: you're listening to this and thinking about having that conversation

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Speaker 3: right now. But I guess why did you decide that

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Speaker 3: this was your It does seem like you all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden I realized like that you had some very

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Speaker 3: real things to say in this area, and then it

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Speaker 3: resonated with many. But why did you decide to build

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Speaker 3: a business around helping people how to speak work to

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Speaker 3: succeed in their careers based on how they are conversing

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Speaker 3: and presenting themselves in the world.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I think we've become the person that

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Speaker 5: I knew we needed when we were younger. I've always

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Speaker 5: been a very helpful person, and I've always been the

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Speaker 5: go to career best see ever since I was young.

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Speaker 5: I've just always been very ambitious in my career. And

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Speaker 5: I was in a very cutthroat, difficult industry, the film industry,

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Speaker 5: and so I had to become very sharp and learn

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Speaker 5: how to have the best resume and the best golding

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Speaker 5: and on the best networking and the best LinkedIn. And

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Speaker 5: I did it, and I helped with the people along

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Speaker 5: the way, And so it seems random from the outside,

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Speaker 5: but really, when I created that first TikTok in like

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Speaker 5: January twenty twenty one, it was just me going online

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Speaker 5: and giving my advice that I was already giving to people,

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Speaker 5: just in a video format, which was very second nature

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Speaker 5: to me as a filmmaker. So I originally started making

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Speaker 5: the content just for fun. It was just something that

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Speaker 5: I could do on the side while the pandemic was happening,

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Speaker 5: and I was in New York and the world just

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Speaker 5: felt really awful, and I was like, what's something I

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Speaker 5: can do that's positive and you know, I could make

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Speaker 5: a difference in the world. And so I started creating

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Speaker 5: the content. And I immediately like deleted my app when

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Speaker 5: I went viral, and I didn't want to be an

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Speaker 5: influencer at all. I was like, I'm already not taken

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Speaker 5: seriously in the film industry. I'm definitely not going to

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Speaker 5: get taken seriously about an influencer. But then I started

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Speaker 5: to get messages and emails and dms from people saying

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Speaker 5: how much my content was truly in the movement, impacting

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Speaker 5: their lives, like they watched my video and that day

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Speaker 5: negotiated a raise and therefore have more money for their family.

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Speaker 5: It was like, Wow, that's extremely fulfilling and meaningful. So

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Speaker 5: over time those messages, my account just kept growing growing,

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Speaker 5: and I kept getting more and more messages and dms

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Speaker 5: just from people telling me how much I had changed

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Speaker 5: their lives. And that became very addicting, that feeling of

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Speaker 5: being hyper helpful to people and making an impact. So

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Speaker 5: I just kind of followed my heart and kept doing it,

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Speaker 5: And yeah, I guess people like what I'm putting out.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 4: That is awesome.

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Speaker 3: I mean, how many interesting career pivots and especially to

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Speaker 3: more independent businesses got born out of the pandemic.

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Speaker 4: I started my planning podcast around that time, twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: It's very very interesting, of course, not to minimize all

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Speaker 3: the losses and the businesses it suffered as a result,

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Speaker 3: but it is interesting to see that also there were

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Speaker 3: shifts in other directions as well. All right, well, let's

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Speaker 3: get into the content and the meat of what you

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Speaker 3: talk about. And I feel like I could sum it

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Speaker 3: up as a lot about what determines your success in

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Speaker 3: the workplace is about how you sound and how you

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Speaker 3: present yourself. Yet some people are going to come of

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Speaker 3: that naturally. You have a great vignette in the book

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Speaker 3: where you have a very polished prep school grad named

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Speaker 3: Samantha who walks into her job interview, who just nails it,

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Speaker 3: and then other people are going to struggle and poor Jesse,

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Speaker 3: her counterpart in the book. So if someone is listening

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Speaker 3: to this and they're like, yes, I feel this, and

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Speaker 3: I'm already suffering.

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Speaker 4: Even maybe middle or later of their career, where would

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Speaker 4: you start.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, strategic communication, interpersonal skills, learning how to talk to people.

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Speaker 5: You know, especially in the age of AI. Everybody's shocked.

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Speaker 5: They're like, why don't you read a book about AI skills?

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Speaker 5: And I'm like, because AI's AI, it's going to do

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Speaker 5: it's thing. One thing that it can never do is

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Speaker 5: talk to other people and inspire people and lead people.

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Speaker 5: It's all that interpersonal communication. It's the number one thing

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Speaker 5: companies are looking for right now is can you be adaptable?

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Speaker 5: Can you handle conflict, can you collaborate? Can you lead?

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Speaker 5: Because that's something that technology will never be able to

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Speaker 5: do or replicate. So that's what's really important to me

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Speaker 5: with the book. My advice for people who maybe feel

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Speaker 5: like they've reached a point in their career where it's

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Speaker 5: a big stagnant is to do a little inventory. So

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Speaker 5: I always say, you can't find your dream job without

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Speaker 5: knowing who you are. And so people oftentimes do this

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Speaker 5: thing where they kind of float. They book a grades

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Speaker 5: in high school, then they go to college, they pick

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Speaker 5: a major, they get a job on that major, and

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Speaker 5: then they wake up ten years later and they're like,

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Speaker 5: what am I doing with my life? How did I

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Speaker 5: get here, and it's because there was never really an

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Speaker 5: intentionality along the way. They just kind of did the

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Speaker 5: next step. And so it really takes a moment where

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Speaker 5: you have to sit down and think, what do I

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Speaker 5: want out of my life? What do I want my

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Speaker 5: days to look like at the end of my life?

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Speaker 5: What do I want to look back and see what

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Speaker 5: it looks like? And then you need to work backwards

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Speaker 5: from there. So like, for example, I always recommend that

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Speaker 5: people make a five year plan and then throw in

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Speaker 5: the garbage. It's not necessarily about making the plan to

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Speaker 5: stick with it. It's about imagining your future and dreaming

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Speaker 5: and being inspired about your future so you can have

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Speaker 5: something to work towards.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I love that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So let's actually you mentioned kind of like looking

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Speaker 3: towards other opportunities perhaps, And something you talk about in

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Speaker 3: your book is something that you refer to as the

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Speaker 3: hidden job market.

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Speaker 4: What exactly is that?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so the hidden job market is where all the

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Speaker 5: good jobs are and a lot of people don't know

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Speaker 5: it exists. It's part of the secret language of work.

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Speaker 5: It's something that you only know if somebody taught you

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Speaker 5: about it. And that's who I am as advice are there,

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Speaker 5: and I'm your career advice bestie. I'm the mentor that's

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Speaker 5: going to teach you about all these things. That's what

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Speaker 5: I do in the book. So the hidden job market

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Speaker 5: refers to the word of mouth job market, and it

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Speaker 5: is bigger and stronger and more powerful than it ever

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Speaker 5: has been in the age of AI. And with the

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Speaker 5: higher process being so broken down and the weak job market,

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Speaker 5: everyone's getting jobs to work of mouth now. It's just

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Speaker 5: how companies are preferring to hire. So it refers to

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Speaker 5: when maybe a company will post a job on the

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Speaker 5: internet to be compliant legally, but they're really hiring somebody's

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Speaker 5: recommendation or somebody's referral. And so in order for you

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Speaker 5: to actually get that job, you know, if you're applying

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Speaker 5: to the online portal, you're kind of ignoring. You're not

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Speaker 5: going to break through. You have to know somebody who

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Speaker 5: knows somebody. And so it all goes back to networking,

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Speaker 5: which is a word that a lot of people are

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Speaker 5: scared of. They're networking. I'm an introvert, I'm shy. I

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Speaker 5: don't know how you know. And that's why one of

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Speaker 5: the chapters in my book is called how to network

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Speaker 5: without being cringed. There's four different styles of networking that

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Speaker 5: I came up with. And I'm an introvert. I work

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Speaker 5: from home and I love it. But I still love

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Speaker 5: networking because if you know how to do it right,

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Speaker 5: it's just making professional friends and it's not cringeing at all.

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Speaker 3: And what are the four different styles? I think you

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Speaker 3: can't leave that cliffhanger without giving us details.

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Speaker 5: Oh gosh, well, it's like a quadrant. So it's a

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Speaker 5: little hard to like. Honestly, it would take me a

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Speaker 5: while to explain. But there's like reach networking and peer networking,

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Speaker 5: so I can talk about that. So reach networking is

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Speaker 5: when you go up. So it's like if you're trying

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Speaker 5: to network with somebody who maybe you can't offer a

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Speaker 5: lot too, but they can offer a lot to you.

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Speaker 5: And that's obviously where a lot of people focus. They're

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Speaker 5: networking because they want to network with somebody who can

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Speaker 5: give them things. However, you should also focus, if not

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Speaker 5: just focused, but more of your time on peer networking,

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Speaker 5: which is where you network with people on your same

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Speaker 5: level quote unquote. So people think, oh, why would I

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Speaker 5: waste my time, you know, networking with people who can't

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Speaker 5: do anything for me. They're just like on my same level.

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Speaker 5: And it's because in the book we have a great

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Speaker 5: graphic that shows it. They don't stay on your level.

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Speaker 5: They go up. And the people who you were reach

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Speaker 5: networking with, the CEO's, the directors, they can fall down.

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Speaker 5: So to say, so people move in their careers. You know,

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Speaker 5: people don't stay staging, they don't stay companies. It's important

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Speaker 5: to make a lot of connection. So that's just one

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Speaker 5: example of the four examples in.

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Speaker 3: The book awesome, and I can imagine that, aside from

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Speaker 3: reach and parallel that like even networking a rung down

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Speaker 3: like well not I don't mean down, but like less

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Speaker 3: experienced people on being a mentor probably also serves an

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Speaker 3: important purpose because also you, yeah, you never know who's

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Speaker 3: going to be that rising star or if you help

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Speaker 3: somebody else flourish, that can benefit both of you.

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Speaker 5: So absolutely, yeah, the reciprocity principle. Give a lot earlier

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Speaker 5: in your career and you'll get it back.

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Speaker 4: I love it.

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Speaker 3: We're going to take a quick break and then we

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Speaker 3: are going to talk about job interviews. All right, we

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Speaker 3: are back, and I just also wanted to revisit the

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Speaker 3: fact that you talked about how the hidden job market

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Speaker 3: was especially important given AI and I had not thought

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Speaker 3: about that, but that makes so much sense, just because

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Speaker 3: it is now so easy for someone to just send

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Speaker 3: out like two hundred like you know, oh, I'll answer

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Speaker 3: this like generate, generate, generate, And so I can imagine

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Speaker 3: that the recruiters are waiting through more than volumes than

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Speaker 3: they have ever seen before, and what is going to

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Speaker 3: stand out someone that they know or who have they

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Speaker 3: have heard is awesome or maybe have already worked with

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Speaker 3: in some other context. So that is actually very very

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Speaker 3: interesting and maybe could be a good thing in some ways,

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Speaker 3: depending on of course, who you are and where you

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Speaker 3: are starting from, could also be terrible. But it is

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Speaker 3: what it is, so we'll work with what we've got, Okay, So,

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Speaker 3: thinking about the job application part on the job market,

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Speaker 3: you definitely have a lot of advice about how to

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Speaker 3: conduct yourself during a job interview, even with that initial

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Speaker 3: vignette that's kind of a fun like peek inside of

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Speaker 3: a job interview, but you also talk about different ways

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Speaker 3: to present yourself and how to answer tough questions. And

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Speaker 3: one thing you address is how do you answer a

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Speaker 3: question that's not totally legal, like, hey, are you pregnant?

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Speaker 4: Is that a bump by sea? Are you planning to

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Speaker 4: have more children? Things like that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So it could be a little tough because sometimes

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Speaker 5: when you're interviewing and you're not interviewing with a professional recruiter,

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Speaker 5: they're not trying to ask you in a legal question,

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Speaker 5: they're not trying to discriminate. They might just be trying

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Speaker 5: to make small talk and don't even know that it's

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Speaker 5: so protected right for you to not so the information. However,

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Speaker 5: on the other side of the spectrum, it can be

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Speaker 5: really nefarious and it can be them trying to poke

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Speaker 5: at you. So I always recommend to get people the

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Speaker 5: benefit of the doubt. You don't have to be specific,

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Speaker 5: and just bring it right back to the interview. So,

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Speaker 5: for example, if you go in which by the way,

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Speaker 5: a lot of interviews are over video now so it's

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Speaker 5: not as hard as it used to be for women

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Speaker 5: indiause you can just be seen from the chest up essentially.

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Speaker 5: But you know, yeah, if they ask, you know, hey,

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Speaker 5: do you have kids, you can just ask, hey, I'm

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Speaker 5: not quite sure that's relevant for the role. I'd love

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Speaker 5: to stick to talking about my qualifications. Just something that's

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Speaker 5: kind of like direct but not rude necessarily.

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Speaker 3: That totally makes sense. Is there ever a time when

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Speaker 3: you would just I don't know. That's hard because like

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Speaker 3: part of it's like, oh, well, maybe they want to

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Speaker 3: know if I have kids, because we're going to be

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Speaker 3: in the secret people who have Kids club when we're

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Speaker 3: going to bond over that, and that's going to help me.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, you're like, that really is

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Speaker 3: not relevant.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that can absolutely be true. People love to hire

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Speaker 5: parents because they know that they're focused and they're probably

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Speaker 5: going to be really committed to their job. So like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: and if you see a picture of their family on

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Speaker 5: their desk, they probably are asking not to discriminatory. But

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Speaker 5: the thing is you just never know, and a lot

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Speaker 5: of people do discriminate against that, and they think that

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Speaker 5: you're not going to be focused or you're just going

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Speaker 5: to get pregnant again and leave. So it's just important

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Speaker 5: for you to protect yourself in a way that doesn't

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Speaker 5: make you come off as litigious or difficult. But just saying, hey,

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Speaker 5: you know, I'm really of thirty minutes. I'd love to

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Speaker 5: just tick into the interview. I see you know, do

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Speaker 5: you have kids behind you, like you can kind of

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Speaker 5: feel it out. It's almost impossible to give advice too

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Speaker 5: for this because anything I say to somebody's like, well

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Speaker 5: what about this and what about this? And you know,

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Speaker 5: I'm just doing my best over here. But it really

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Speaker 5: depends on the situation. I just I stress that women

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Speaker 5: protect themselves because discrimination is very, very real, and there

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Speaker 5: are so many people who love to hire parents, and

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Speaker 5: but there's a lot of people who also don't like

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Speaker 5: to hire parents or mom's specific So always protect yourself.

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Speaker 4: That makes sense.

440
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 3: And you never know who you're talking to because you

441
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 3: can't judge that by gender or anything else. Okay, well,

442
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:09,760
Speaker 3: let's go through I thought it would be fun to do.

443
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 3: I don't want to call at thele lightning rounds. I

444
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,440
Speaker 3: don't want to rush you through these answers, but I'm

445
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,800
Speaker 3: going to give you a lot of common scenarios that

446
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,239
Speaker 3: we get asked about and just hear your take and

447
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 3: especially I mean, I think your specialty is coming up

448
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 3: with a number of really versatile scripts that like, some

449
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:25,679
Speaker 3: of them might be different, or you might come up

450
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,439
Speaker 3: with three different ways to answer the question, but as

451
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,800
Speaker 3: people hear them, it might give them ideas of how

452
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 3: they might handle some of these difficult things. So we'll

453
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,480
Speaker 3: start with the one that you disclosed to me and

454
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,199
Speaker 3: that you are pregnant. Now, you probably do not have

455
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,200
Speaker 3: to negotiate a maternity leave because you work for yourself.

456
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 3: So Laura, the other host of this podcast, she works

457
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:44,959
Speaker 3: for herself as well, So she talks about how she

458
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,760
Speaker 3: really enjoyed having total control about how much she wanted

459
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 3: to work after her kids, and she often actually worked

460
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 3: a lot after she had her kids, but she liked

461
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 3: owning that.

462
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 4: Me totally opposite. I'm in medicine.

463
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 3: It is very not flexible, and I absolutely had these

464
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 3: difficult conversations include arriving at my very first job after

465
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,000
Speaker 3: finishing my training pregnant.

466
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 4: Wow. Fun.

467
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 3: Anyway, So what advice do you have for listeners who

468
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,760
Speaker 3: are trying to negotiate their maternity leave. Maybe it's their

469
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 3: first kid, maybe it's their fifth, but it is always

470
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 3: a tough conversation.

471
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 5: I think it's really important to remember that statistically speaking,

472
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 5: most working people will already have kids or will have kids,

473
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,359
Speaker 5: so you're in the majority here. It's not weird to

474
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 5: be asking for a maternity leave or to be discussing

475
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 5: your pregnancy or what needs to go down. So I

476
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 5: think the first thing is just removing any stigma that

477
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 5: this makes you less than or makes you less desirable

478
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 5: than a man. You know, men should be having these

479
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 5: conversations too. It's about them making to step up as well.

480
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,120
Speaker 5: So first of all, just to can remove any weirdness.

481
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,399
Speaker 5: This is just a normal humans have kids, It's a

482
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 5: normal conversation to have, And what's really important is to

483
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 5: keep it positive, to say, I love this job, I

484
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,479
Speaker 5: want to keep contributing. Here's what I'm going to need

485
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 5: from you. In order to do that, I'm going to

486
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 5: need three months off and then I'm going to need

487
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,919
Speaker 5: three months flexibility. Now, the thing that usually happens is

488
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 5: companies have their policies. So what you need to do

489
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 5: is review the policy. I recommend for any women listening

490
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 5: to this when you first started a new job, get

491
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 5: all the policies right away, because the last thing you

492
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 5: want to do is be in a situation where you're

493
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 5: not ready to disclose your pregnancy but you need to

494
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,920
Speaker 5: ask HR for their policy and you're like, I don't

495
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 5: want them to know I'm pregnant, but how do I

496
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 5: do this? So like, right, you start a new job,

497
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 5: like ask for all the policies and stay them to

498
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,919
Speaker 5: your computer and that might be what you're working with. Like,

499
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 5: that's why I encourage people to ask about family leave

500
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 5: in general benefits and job interviews, so that you can

501
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 5: know going into it, because some companies have greatly If

502
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 5: my one friend I think works for Google just six

503
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 5: months of completely one paid maturity leave and then six

504
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 5: months of remote flexibility, you know, it's amazing. And some

505
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 5: companies have zero because in the US it is not

506
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 5: required to give any and even an hour of paid

507
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 5: maternity leave. So know your rights. No FMLA too, no

508
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 5: short term disability. There's lots of things you can hodgepodge

509
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 5: together in the US. It's kind of cruel the way

510
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 5: that we do it. I could talk about that forever,

511
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 5: but I'll stop there.

512
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,919
Speaker 4: That'll be another episode and I'm just kidding. You know

513
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 4: that makes total sense.

514
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 3: Okay, So speaking of flexible, because you talked about like

515
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 3: I want to be off for three months and flexible

516
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 3: after that, I would say, like, one of the most

517
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 3: common questions we get is I used to work remote.

518
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: Now I'm in the office. My drive is two hours

519
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 3: each way. I want to die well, okay, that's you

520
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,199
Speaker 3: get what I'm saying. I'm really really struggling and I

521
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 3: don't like my job anymore, but I otherwise feel like

522
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,919
Speaker 3: I like this company, I like my role, but I

523
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 3: need to negotiate for some kind of more flexible arrangement

524
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 3: or a less in person arrangement.

525
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 4: How would you go about that?

526
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 5: The million dollar question? I love this, It's funny, just

527
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 5: a little side where I'm working on a substack right

528
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 5: now about how corporate and bosses are for the boys.

529
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,479
Speaker 5: And I think women are designed to be self employed

530
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 5: and work with themselves for this reason. I think we

531
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 5: need flexibility like we do, and I think we're actually

532
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 5: really really good at anyway. That's for another episode. But

533
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 5: if you're trying to negotiate, yeah, working from.

534
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 3: And I just want to say we also, we can't

535
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 3: just be like okay, women, never mind forget it, don't

536
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:09,959
Speaker 3: even ask for any of this stuff. You just all

537
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 3: can go work for yourselves. So, now, assuming we're not

538
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 3: going that far, no.

539
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 5: Like ask first of all, yes, just ask, like nothing

540
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 5: can hurt from just asking. The most important thing to

541
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 5: remember in any negotiation are two things. The first thing

542
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 5: is your leverage, So do you have the ability to

543
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 5: walk away. So that's why I always encourage people to

544
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 5: be very very very very good at what they do.

545
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 5: Just I'm not saying a work hard, stay light. I'm

546
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 5: saying to be good at what you do. That's different.

547
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 5: Bring a lot of value to the company. Understand, especially nowadays,

548
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 5: what role you play in the company and how they

549
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 5: make money off of your role, and use that to

550
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 5: your advantage. Because if you're extremely valuable to the company,

551
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 5: and again I'm not saying you work hard, I'm saying

552
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 5: you're valuable to the company, you can negotiate whatever you want.

553
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 5: The second thing you need to remember is your audience,

554
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 5: because if you're working for a small company, like if

555
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,160
Speaker 5: one of my employees came to me and they ask

556
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,719
Speaker 5: me for aratorney leave, I make that decision. That's up

557
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 5: to me, following the laws of course, But like I

558
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 5: don't have to go convince a finance team or HR

559
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 5: team or whatever to collaborate on this. I can just

560
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 5: make the decision. In most companies, however, they're going to

561
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 5: need to go up a chain of command and get approvals,

562
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 5: and so you actually need to make your case to

563
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 5: them so that they can make their case to somebody else.

564
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 5: So the most important thing is to say I love

565
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 5: working here, just like you just said, I am very

566
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 5: good at what I do because of X y Z,

567
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 5: I want to keep working here, which is kind of

568
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 5: like a subtle threat like I can go work somewhere

569
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 5: else if I want to. However, this is what I

570
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 5: need from you in order to do that. And so again,

571
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 5: if you have that leverage where you're an extremely valuable

572
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 5: employee and they're obsessed with you, which you have spent

573
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 5: the last X number of years planting in the ground,

574
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 5: then they should want to work with you. And if

575
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 5: they don't, go find somebody who will. And if you're

576
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 5: a good enough employee and you produce enough value, you're

577
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 5: not going to have trouble finding a job at a

578
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 5: high quality company.

579
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: Do you think it's important to have that alternate job

580
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 3: kind of in hand before approaching for a meeting like this.

581
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 3: I mean, I can imagine that might make it a

582
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 3: little easier.

583
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 5: It's always easier when you have alternative leverage. But I

584
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 5: don't think it has to go to that level quite yet.

585
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 5: I think you can just serve the conversation and something

586
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 5: that I talked about in the book, which is one

587
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 5: of my favorite communication tips is to swap a close

588
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 5: ask for an open ask. So a lot of the

589
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 5: times people will go into these conversations and they'll say,

590
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 5: can I work from home on Fridays? Yes?

591
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: Or now?

592
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 5: And it corners the boss into having to make a

593
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 5: decision and having to do yes or no, and it's

594
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 5: very difficult for them. Instead, go in and say, Hey,

595
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 5: I'm curious about the company's policy regarding remote work on Fridays.

596
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 5: I love to have a conversation about this because I

597
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 5: feel as though I can do my best work when

598
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 5: I have flexibility on Fridays. I love working here. I

599
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 5: love what I do, I love the value that I produce. However,

600
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 5: I would very much like to discuss this as part

601
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 5: of my compensation and part of my work plan here.

602
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,239
Speaker 5: So can we have a conversation and just keep it

603
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 5: open like that? And that takes the pressure off your boss.

604
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 5: And if anybody listening to this is in a management position,

605
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 5: you're like, yes, that I would be so much happier

606
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 5: if an employee came to meet in that way.

607
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 3: No, that makes total sense, and it's harder to do.

608
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 3: It's like more elaborate, But I can see how it

609
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 3: would absolutely lead to a more productive conversation. Okay, so

610
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 3: what if someone has done something dumb at work? So

611
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: they're an excellent employee, but they just sent an email

612
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 3: where they see the wrong person and there was something

613
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 3: in that they didn't want to see. Do you have

614
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 3: any advice for someone who might need to get out

615
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 3: of something like that?

616
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, you mean, like just making a mistake at work, Yes.

617
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 3: Making a mistake at work. I just I thought, try

618
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 3: to think about what a common mistake would be.

619
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's hard to think of things on the spot

620
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 5: from toms. So making a mistake of work is a spectrum.

621
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 5: You know, there could be small mistakes, like a typo,

622
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,479
Speaker 5: and then there are big mistakes, oh like accidentally deleting

623
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 5: a client's entire folder and you can't get it back,

624
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 5: and then again a quadrant. I love like visuals. It's

625
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 5: so I have a lot of illustrations.

626
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 1: In my book. You do.

627
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, there are problems that can be fixed immediately, and

628
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 5: there's problems that can't be fixed immediately, And so it's

629
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 5: about assessing where in this quadrant this mistake lies. And

630
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 5: so if it's small and it can be fixed, fix

631
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 5: it. It's kind of like the Eisenhower matrix. It's like, you know,

632
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 5: fix it right away. But if it's big and it

633
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 5: can't be fixed, if it can't be fixed in the

634
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,959
Speaker 5: moment by you, you need to escalate it. You need

635
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 5: to go writ to your boss. You need to say, hey,

636
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 5: this is what happened, this is my plan to fix it.

637
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 5: Here's an alternative plan. Which one do you like better?

638
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 5: And just go handle it. But again, you said a

639
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 5: lot of your listeners are more seasoned and they're probably

640
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 5: management positions, and they love hearing that. You don't want

641
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 5: your employees to come to you with problems. You want

642
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 5: them to come to your solutions. So go to your

643
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 5: bosses to solutions, let them know what your plan is,

644
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 5: and then fix it. And you know, people make mistakes.

645
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 5: It's totally fine. One time I posted a TikTok where

646
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 5: I just asked people to write. I was like, can

647
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 5: you make us feel better? Everybody write a mistake that

648
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 5: you made it work in the comment section and there

649
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,959
Speaker 5: are thousands of commons and you can just read through

650
00:27:59,000 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 5: it if you need to feel better.

651
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 4: I bet that one went extremely viral.

652
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 3: No, that makes sense, all right, We're going to take

653
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 3: another quick break, and I got a couple more juicy

654
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 3: scenarios for you. Okay, we are back, and I'm asking

655
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 3: Aaron for her advice on since that is her specialty

656
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 3: on all sorts of interesting work scenarios.

657
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 4: So what if you have a.

658
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 3: Boundary problem at work where you are getting texted at

659
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: all hours, things are coming at you in a sort

660
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 3: of emergency fashion. Sometimes they're not even emergencies, or maybe

661
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 3: it's even like more minor than that, Like you're just

662
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 3: getting constantly interrupted by like synchronous communication with things that

663
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 3: really do not need to be stopping you in the moment.

664
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 5: It's a really good question. That's why I have an

665
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 5: entire chapter in the book on how to set boundaries

666
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 5: without getting fired or without people thinking less than you.

667
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 5: A lot of people think that boundaries are sent thing

668
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 5: that you say in the moment, and you're like, I'm

669
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 5: setting up boundary with you. But what boundaries usually are

670
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 5: are silence. It's what you choose not to respond to

671
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 5: or not to react to. And actually the most important

672
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 5: person I set boundaries with is yourself. So saying I'm

673
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 5: not going to respond to that text while I'm on

674
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 5: vacation because people will take what they can get from you.

675
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 5: So if you're on vacation and you're responding to work

676
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 5: emails here and there, people think, oh, Aaron's responding to

677
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 5: work emails, maybe that makes her feel better. Richie's on vacation,

678
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 5: I'm going to email her. But if I'm not responding

679
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 5: to any emails and I have my vacation responder on

680
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 5: and I'm not even I personally delete my mail app

681
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 5: when I go on vacation. I don't even want to

682
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 5: see it. People know that about me, so they don't

683
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 5: bug me. And that's because it's a boundary that I

684
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 5: set with myself first that makes other people respect it.

685
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 5: And so it's also not other people's job to set

686
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 5: your boundaries for you. You have to set them and then

687
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 5: reinforce them over time. So yeah, one of the most

688
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 5: important boundaries you can set is with yourself, and usually

689
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 5: it's just through silence. That's the best way to reinforce it.

690
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 3: I love that because it can be very difficult to say.

691
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 3: Although I'm going to admit that I have done it

692
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 3: on occasion, please don't contact me. Well, I try to

693
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 3: do it in a very positive way, like, oh yeah,

694
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 3: I definitely did need to know about that, but like

695
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 3: the easiest way is to send me a staff message

696
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 3: because I always tackle all those at four o'clock. So

697
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 3: that way, you know, you'll know you get me at a.

698
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 4: Predictable time or something like. Frame it as like this

699
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 4: is better for you.

700
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 5: Actually, So that's great. I love that tip.

701
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I can see the silence being especially if

702
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 3: someone maybe if you said something like that and it

703
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 3: was like being ignored, then you can go ahead and

704
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 3: be like, well, I told them I'm not gonna deal

705
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 3: with these in the moments, so I'll handle that it

706
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 3: for you know, or whenever you have said so.

707
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 5: Absolutely set the boundary and then reinforce it.

708
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's awesome.

709
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 3: Okay, how about this is a very popular and common one.

710
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 3: I am sure, negotiating for a raise And is there

711
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 3: I think we've had experts talk about this before specifically,

712
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 3: but is there data on gender differences on asking for

713
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 3: more compensation that you know about?

714
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 4: If not, that's okay.

715
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 5: Well, there was a research typically that people would site

716
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 5: that said men asked for raises more than women, But

717
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 5: I believe eighteen months ago actually a new study came out.

718
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 5: There's thousands of studies but it was a notable one.

719
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 5: I can't recall who was right now. I want to

720
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 5: see it as Oxford, and it was showing that actually,

721
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 5: women negotiate at the same rate. And I actually credit

722
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 5: social media for that. I think accounts like mine have

723
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 5: spread like wildfire throughout the female community and have empowered

724
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 5: women to negotiate. And I think women love negotiating. They

725
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 5: just don't like making other people feel weird or awkward,

726
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 5: and a lot of guys don't either. But people are

727
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 5: afraid of negotiating. They're afraid of feeling awkward. They're afraid

728
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 5: of feeling rude or getting rejected. But if you can

729
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 5: learn how to negotiate correctly, as I teach my book,

730
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 5: it's the thickest chapter in the book. It's such a

731
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 5: great chapter. You look forward to it. You're like, this

732
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 5: is gonna be great. I'm gonna go and I'm gonna negotiate.

733
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 5: Everybody's gonna feel good. I'm gonna get what I want

734
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 5: and that's that. So when it comes to getting a raise,

735
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 5: it's really important to remember. I always say that it's

736
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 5: not personal, it's just professional. So people will go in

737
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 5: and they'll say, well, my boss, should it gives me

738
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 5: a raise and I deserve this, and they make it

739
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 5: like very emotional and personal. It's not. Your job is transactional,

740
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 5: although your job is a big part of your personal life.

741
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,239
Speaker 5: You're at your job for a huge chunk of your

742
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 5: waking hours. But when it comes to your compensation, it's

743
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 5: completely transactional. So the company need you to do a job,

744
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 5: and you do the job, and they pay you, and

745
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 5: that's the transaction. They give you money and you bring value.

746
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 5: That's it. So all you need to do is make

747
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 5: sure that the deal is being upheld on both ends.

748
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 5: So if you're holding up your end of the deal,

749
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 5: they need to hold up their end of the deal.

750
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 5: And if your responsibilities and d these go up, their

751
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 5: compensation needs to reflect that. And that's just math. But

752
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 5: there's nothing else going on there. So I'd recommend going

753
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 5: in and having data and statistics. You know, in the

754
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 5: past twelve months, I've taken on this extra assignment, this intern,

755
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 5: I've stepped up in this way, I've earned this extra skill.

756
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 5: The market rate reflect this should be my compensation. So

757
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 5: I'd like to discuss that with you and make that happen.

758
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 5: And then what's really important that a lot of people

759
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 5: forget is to remind them, and it'd be the squeaky wheel,

760
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 5: because what's going to happen is your boss is either

761
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 5: going to say yes, I'll do it right now, which

762
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 5: is probably not gonna happen. They're going to need to

763
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 5: go talk to other people, or they're gonna say no, sorry,

764
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 5: the company is like really struggling right now, and then

765
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 5: that's a whole other can of worms. Or they're going

766
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 5: to say, most likely, I need to go talk to

767
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 5: someone else about this, and so they're going to go

768
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 5: talk to finance or HR or whatever and try to

769
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 5: figure it out. So your only job is making the

770
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 5: case to them for making them make the case to

771
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 5: somebody else, and that's it. And then afterwards they're going

772
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 5: to get busy with their stuff because that's not that

773
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 5: un worandt priority. And so don't again get mad that

774
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 5: they got distracted, because it's not their job to be

775
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 5: all over you know, everything that's important to you. A

776
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 5: great boss will, but most bosses won't, and so you

777
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 5: just need to remind them. Being the squeaky wheel, Hey,

778
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 5: i'd like to redus the compensation Conversation's really important to

779
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 5: me that they get that resolved by the end of

780
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 5: the month, like and just say that over and overget.

781
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 4: As much as you need to be somewhat annoying.

782
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, don't be afraid. It's not annoying too. It's it's no,

783
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 5: it's not. It's important because of course.

784
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 3: And then this is a side question, but you mentioned

785
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: something about like finding out the market rate, but that's

786
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 3: not always so straightforward.

787
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 4: Do you have tips for doing that?

788
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 5: It's a really good question. It's definitely not straightforward, but

789
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 5: it is more transparent than it ever has been. Again,

790
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 5: I credit a lot of this to social media pay transparency,

791
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 5: but a lot of I think fourteenth stats now have

792
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 5: pay transparency laws. So you can go in and see

793
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 5: how much does your status in pay transparent you can

794
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 5: go to an equivalent state with a similar economy and

795
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 5: look at how much editors are getting paid in that

796
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 5: or doctors are getting paid in that state, and you

797
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 5: can kind of get a general vibe. Also, a you

798
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 5: can kind of use AI, like I'd recommend using like

799
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 5: an intelligent AI and like really, you know, doing it

800
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 5: properly because it can like low volume. There's actually a

801
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 5: study done that if you have a female name and

802
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 5: with chat GBT, then it would like give you a

803
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 5: lower recommendation insane because of the gender pay gap.

804
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 4: So that's so I know, I so upsetting.

805
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 5: Wow, And I made a video about it salary dot com,

806
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 5: glass door LinkedIn just kind of like go to a

807
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 5: hodgepodge and try to collect like the base number. But

808
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 5: at the end of the day, what do you want? Like,

809
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 5: what you want is the most important thing. And again,

810
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 5: if you have the leverage to walk away from them,

811
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 5: you can ask just for what you want.

812
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 4: Awesome.

813
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 3: Well, final scenario, what if you want to quit, but

814
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 3: you want to quit and leave a really nice vibe

815
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 3: in your absence so that if you wanted to come

816
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 3: back or make connections or freelance, that things would be

817
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 3: open for you.

818
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 5: Absolutely. Yeah, always leave an open door. People think that

819
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 5: quitting is like killing the company. It's not. It's just saying, hey,

820
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 5: you know, I'm moving on to my next thing again,

821
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 5: like having kids. It's something that most people do. And

822
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 5: your boss, this is the first time that they've had

823
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 5: somebody quit on them. It's like the last time they're

824
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 5: gonna have somebody quit. Just because you quit something doesn't

825
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 5: mean it's a failure. It's to quit something that's no

826
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 5: longer serving you. Nobody says why did you do that?

827
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 5: When you quit smoking, it's like it's okay to move

828
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 5: on to something else. Need to quit something that's not

829
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 5: working for you anymore or is unhealthy for you, like

830
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 5: a lot of jobs are. So remove the sigma that

831
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 5: quitting a symptype of failure or that it's offensive. It's

832
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 5: a normal thing that people do, and it can be very,

833
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 5: very very much the right move. I encourage people to

834
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 5: quit their jobs constantly. So the most important thing to

835
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 5: do is sign your new opera letter unless you're going

836
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 5: to try to use it to negotiate a current race.

837
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,919
Speaker 5: But if you're leaving your job for any other reason

838
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 5: besides money, you got to cut the cord. If they're

839
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 5: going to try to counter with you, and there's other

840
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 5: reasons you were leaving besides salary, you don't tempt it. Like,

841
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 5: just sign your new offer letter, have that job in writing,

842
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 5: have your start date figured out. Then instead of meeting

843
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 5: with your boss for you, notify them, Hey, you know,

844
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 5: I've really loved working here. Keep it genuine, keep it short. However,

845
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 5: I was approached with the opportunity that I can't turn

846
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 5: down and I'm putting in my two weeks. Notice today

847
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 5: my last team this date, and then tell your boss

848
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 5: I really appreciated working here. I really appreciated work interview.

849
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 5: I learned a lot from you, and I wish you

850
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 5: the best of block moving forward. I'll be on for

851
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 5: the next two weeks to help delegate my task and

852
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 5: to aid in a smooth transition. But yeah, and I

853
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 5: hope to cross pads again in the future, you know,

854
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 5: just like keep it nice in light.

855
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying to picture a medical provider leaving with

856
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 3: two weeks and I just got like it would not work.

857
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 3: But this would work in other professional contexts. I am sure,

858
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 3: just a little bit more to transition. I think maybe

859
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 3: a little bit more personal when patients are involved. But

860
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 3: super I know that is a nice, nice way of

861
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 3: looking at it, like, oh, this is a next step

862
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: and not a failure. And to make sure that you

863
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 3: I think approaching it with gratitude too, like thank you

864
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 3: for all the great experience I've had here and I've

865
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 3: learned so much and it's enabled me to grow so

866
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 3: I could do it elsewhere.

867
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.

868
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 3: Well, anything that we didn't touch on during this interview

869
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:55,919
Speaker 3: that you feel like our listeners need to know about

870
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 3: the secret language of work.

871
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, I mean there really is. Just this

872
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 5: secret language is a hidden curriculum. There's a very subtle

873
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 5: way of speaking that's both direct without being rude and

874
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 5: confident without being copy And the one thing I will

875
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 5: say about my book that I've never experienced in any

876
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 5: other professional development book, and I've read all of them,

877
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 5: trust me, is that I'm not trying to change your personality. Like,

878
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 5: you can be exactly who you are and be a confident,

879
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 5: powerful leader and strategic communicator. You don't have to be

880
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 5: super intense through you know, lead with truth, Like I'm

881
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 5: meeting you where you're at and I'm helping you use

882
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 5: your words in a more powerful way. If you notice

883
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 5: listening to me, I use fillers, and I use them

884
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 5: on purpose because that's part of my personality. So it's

885
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 5: totally fine. I'm here to empower you to be a strategic,

886
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 5: powerful communicator and leader and also yourself at the same time.

887
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 4: I love it.

888
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 3: Well, thanks so much for coming on. Just remind our

889
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 3: listeners where they can find you.

890
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, follow me on Instagram. Add advice with Aaron on

891
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 5: TikTok LinkedIn threads YouTube by do long form video on YouTube,

892
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 5: which is really helpful. And yeah, the new company called

893
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 5: Stupid Fish to fish on app and that is designed

894
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 5: to help you pivot in your career. So that's really exciting.

895
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 5: We're launching pretty soon. And of course, by my book

896
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 5: The Secret Language of Work, you are going to absolutely

897
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 5: love it. It's great.

898
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for coming on erin. This was

899
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 4: so much fun.

900
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me. This is great.

901
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: Well we are back.

902
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: Sarah was interviewing Aaron mcoff about the Secret Language of Work.

903
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 2: Lots of helpful tips for navigating some tricky situations. Well,

904
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 2: this is another question that we had come from Patreon

905
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 2: from our group, Sarah, you want to read it.

906
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 3: Yes, So our member asked virtual assistance, what are they

907
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 3: used for, how does one find a good one, and

908
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 3: how much do they typically cost? And I'm going to

909
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,959
Speaker 3: let Laura answer this because i have never yet used

910
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 3: a virtual assistant.

911
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I've had one for the past couple of years.

912
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 2: And I had been working with somebody years ago who

913
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 2: had done a lot of similar stuff for me and

914
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 2: then she went off to do other things. But she

915
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 2: had eventually a virtual assistant, and so I was like, well,

916
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 2: where did you find the person?

917
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: And she referred me over to Peachtree, which.

918
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 2: Is one of the virtual assistant agencies, and I've really

919
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 2: liked working with them, but there are others, and you

920
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 2: can search around online for places that have good reviews,

921
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: and basically they will help you find a person or

922
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: they will find a person for you that matches up

923
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 2: your skills, like what you want in a person, and

924
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 2: then you pay the agency and so the person is

925
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 2: not your employee. Usually you are just paying a fee

926
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 2: and then the agency employs them and so they're dealing

927
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 2: with the things like withholding taxes and Social Security payments

928
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 2: and unemployment conference payments and stuff like that. But obviously

929
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 2: you can hire someone on your own as well as

930
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 2: an assistant, and then you would be responsible for those

931
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: sorts of things. But the idea with virtual is that

932
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 2: they're just not in the same place as you, right,

933
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 2: so it could be anyone in the entire world who

934
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 2: is doing administrative help for you, and they are often

935
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: working from home or something like that, and so it's

936
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 2: often a job that people who maybe want a little

937
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: bit more flexibility, like they want to work for hours

938
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 2: a day while their kids are in school, you know,

939
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 2: twenty hours a week or so, and that could be

940
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 2: a great opportunity for them. And you can get some

941
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: people who are really amazing. They just want the flexibility.

942
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 2: So I think it's an awesome idea. Now, what do

943
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 2: you use this person for, Well, anything you would use

944
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: yourself for but that you are too busy to take on.

945
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 2: So I have help with formatting my newsletter and maintaining

946
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 2: that list, coming up with ideas, making my blog posts

947
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: more like SEO friendly, helping out with my social media stuff,

948
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 2: coming up with One of the things I had a

949
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: person I'm working with now do is come up some

950
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:54,320
Speaker 2: more like catchy subs tech newsletter titles. So for posts

951
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: that would be more engaging, I guess in the headline themselves,

952
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 2: even though the topics I normally write about, but I

953
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: don't necessarily think about engagement with the headline. And so

954
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 2: she did some research with that, and she's helped me

955
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 2: find podcasts that were related to time management or productivity

956
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 2: so that I could start listening to them and getting

957
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 2: to know the host and having them become context. So

958
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: all those sorts of things that you should be doing

959
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 2: or you would need to do, but maybe you're trying

960
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 2: to focus more of your time on other things. And

961
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: I know people are listening to this and thinking, ay.

962
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 4: I could probably do a lot of that.

963
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 3: But there are certain things where it's just nice to

964
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 3: have like a human involved.

965
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 4: And I'll say, like sometimes I've worked with.

966
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 3: People who use a virtual assistant for scheduling, and I

967
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 3: prefer to be a human.

968
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I prefer to be a human.

969
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 2: And when you're doing back and forth on scheduling or

970
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 2: if somebody would ever wind up on the phone or

971
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 2: on zoom with people that you work with, you would

972
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 2: definitely want somebody who was polished and good and a human.

973
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 2: But there's all sorts of yeah, other things people use

974
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,439
Speaker 2: them for, I mean like booking travel or reading through

975
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 2: contracts and flagging anything if they have some you know,

976
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 2: specialized knowledge there, or if you give them a list

977
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 2: of things to look for, research, drafting things, all sorts

978
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 2: of stuff, anything that an assistant would do.

979
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 3: Cool and a ballpark idea of cost. Do you have

980
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 3: anything for this, listener or is it just very so much?

981
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: I think it's going to vary.

982
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: I mean there's probably places that would be cheaper. That

983
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 2: would be more in the like twenty dollars an hour range,

984
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 2: especially if it's somebody who's maybe overseas. If you're doing

985
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: something like Peachtree, which has people in the United States

986
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 2: and tend to be very well qualified, that's obviously going

987
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 2: to be higher.

988
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can even do there are certain market

989
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 3: places where you can kind of hire a rea for

990
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 3: like a one off job as well, if it was.

991
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 4: Something you were just curious to try out.

992
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

993
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 2: Well, our love of the week, because it may or

994
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 2: may not have happened during the interview, Sarah, what's.

995
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: Your love of the week.

996
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 3: Well, I'm sitting here listening to the sound of the

997
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 3: ocean and wondering if it's making it to the microphone.

998
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 3: I feel like we could like to stick the mic outside.

999
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 3: But no, it's really lovely, it's calming. It never really

1000
00:43:58,960 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 3: gets old.

1001
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, the noise of people in the pool might be less,

1002
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 2: might be more distracting if we have that in some

1003
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 2: later episodes.

1004
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: Today, Ah, I'm gonna say soft pretzels.

1005
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 4: Oooh okay, yeah they're good. I mean I like salt so.

1006
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, no like wa wa soft pretzels are really good

1007
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 2: or there's this place that sells them in the Philadelphia

1008
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 2: Airport that have stopped in Terminal A a few times.

1009
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 4: You've been mustered on it. I do not. I just

1010
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 4: have them plane. Yeah, but I still think they're good. Yeah.

1011
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 3: I like them either way, plane or mustard. Give me

1012
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 3: some soft pretzels, All right.

1013
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 1: Stuff, all right, well, this has been best of both worlds.

1014
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 2: Sarah has been interviewing Aaron mcoff, the author of the

1015
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: Secret Language of Work. We will be back next week

1016
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 2: with more on making work and life fit together.

1017
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.

1018
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com

1019
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 3: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram.

1020
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 2: And you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.

1021
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 2: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please

1022
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 2: join us next time for more on making work and

1023
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 2: life work together.