1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:06,199 Speaker 1: Hey, listeners. This episode is part of our new playlist 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: to help everybody get through these times we're living in. 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: It's our host faves playlist. Yeah, these are just some 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: of our personal favorites, ones that we had a particular 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: affinity for, and because these are stressful and trying times, 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 1: we tried to stick to the ones that weren't quite 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: as dour. So hopefully they'll give you a little lift, 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: Stay safe. Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. Hello and welcome to 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Tracy Wilson, and today we are talking 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: about subject admittedly very near and dear to my heart 12 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: and one that I think it might startle people initially 13 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: to think about. It is a history item, but it 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: really has quite a fascinating history all of its own, 15 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: and that is Disneyland's Haunted Man. Where those of you 16 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: at home, which is everyone, maybe not they might be 17 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: on the go, maybe so when people who are not 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: here in the room with us, which is everyone but 19 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: you and me and our producer knoll Uh Holly has 20 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: on a Haunted Mansion T shirt. I do. I have 21 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: a my Honteamasion shirt, have my Hontemasion ring, I really 22 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: love the Honey Mansion. My house has a lot of 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: Honey Mansion. Theming um and it is one of those 24 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: things that when you read about the history of how 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: this project came to fruition, it's a little bit enlightening. Uh, 26 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: and it's uh it sort of creates for me, I know, 27 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: kind of a lens through which viewing like some of 28 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 1: the trials and tribulations that happened in like anyone's modern 29 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: day to day work life, and kind of a different way. 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: And it gives a perspective of like, no, everybody has 31 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: these issues, you know, like if you have a project 32 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: that's taking forever, if you have like a thing that 33 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: you want to do but you get excited and then 34 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: it gets put away and it never comes to fruition. 35 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: Those things happen all the time to everybody. And I think, uh, 36 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: you know, we don't because the Disney Company has become 37 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: so huge, we don't think about that ever having happened 38 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: in the context of Disney, But in fact, it was 39 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: happening all the time. Well. And I also love this 40 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: story because of like the historic visual effects techniques that 41 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: were used and how many of them still hold up 42 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: and are in use today. So uh. For younger listeners, 43 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: it's probably really easy to think about Disneyland and Walt 44 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: Disney World as places that have been around forever, but 45 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: they really haven't. Uh. Disneyland has only been around since 46 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties and disney World open in the early 47 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, but the ideas for those parks go back 48 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: quite a bit further. One of the iconic attractions at 49 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: all Disney parks is the Haunted Mansion, And as any 50 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: Disney file will tell you, each attraction in the parks 51 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: has its own story, but the Haunted Mansion's history is 52 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: particularly steeped in legends, partly because of the supernatural theming, 53 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: which leads to all kinds of ghost stories and horror. Yeah, 54 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: and as I was saying earlier, the story of Disneyland 55 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: and the development of the Mansion is also a really 56 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: good one to look at because it showcases how, um 57 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: you know, even great success has a lot of failure 58 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: along the way. I think, um you know, Walt Disney 59 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: has become so legend legendary as a visionary that a 60 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: lot of the struggles that his projects went through, and 61 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: a lot of the struggles that he went through trying 62 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: to get things done. Uh, they get glossed over or 63 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: they get overlooked completely. But he had a lot of 64 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: bumpy rides, and regardless of whether you view him in 65 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: the Disney Company in a positive or negative light. And 66 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: that's like almost could be a podcast on its own, 67 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: because there are people it's very polarizing for some people. 68 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: But the sheer number of achievements that he managed in 69 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: his life is really impressive. But when you actually look 70 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: at how it all happened, a lot of the stories 71 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: of that great success, they have nothing to do with 72 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: luck or you know, blind good fortune. They're really like 73 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: the result of hard work and perseverance and really pushing through, 74 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: which I think is important to remember because again it's 75 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: become such a huge company, we think of it as 76 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: just being a powerful entity, and we forget that it 77 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: there were baby steps in the beginning. Well, for many 78 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: people alive today, Disney has always been a juggernaut for 79 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: the entirety of their existence. It was not always juggernaut, No, 80 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: not at all. And even the project of the Hunted 81 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: Mansion had many stops and starts, uh, both with them 82 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: without Walt. So we're gonna first started off by talking 83 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: about a quick overview of kind of the birth of Disneyland. 84 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: In nine Disney had an idea for a park to 85 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: give families something to do to get together in southern California. 86 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: His first plan was to make a park in Burbank, 87 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: across the street from the Disney studios. Even in the 88 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: first series of concepts sketches that Walt asked director Harper 89 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: Goff to do, there was always a haunted house and 90 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: all of them. And it first started as a part 91 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: of a group that also had a church in a graveyard. 92 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: And on December sixteenth of nineteen fifty two, Walt Disney 93 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: Incorporated was founded by Disney to build the park. Uh. 94 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: The name changed almost immediately to w E. D Enterprises. UH. 95 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: Some people will say WED and the w E D 96 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: stands for Walter Elias Disney, But today we actually know 97 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: that entity as the as Walt Disney Imagineering. So it 98 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: went through a few name changes, but it originally started 99 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: in nine two to build Disneyland. UH. And that new 100 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: company was actually staffed up with a lot of the 101 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: artists and the visionaries from Walt's movie studio, even though 102 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: they had not worked on a theme park before uh, 103 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: and that higher to bring in movie industry people and 104 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: animators may seem odd when you think about it, but 105 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: Walt's whole idea was that they were going to be 106 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: telling stories in three dimensions instead of two, and since 107 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: story was always going to be the focus, professional storytellers 108 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: to him, seemed like the exact right people for these jobs. 109 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: These ideas quickly became way too big for the eleven 110 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: acre plot of land that he initially had in mind, 111 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,119 Speaker 1: so the focus shifted to Los Angeles. In three Walt 112 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: hired the Stanford Research Institute to survey Los Angeles and 113 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: the surrounding area for a hundred acre site that would 114 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: be suitable for what he and the W E. D 115 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: team had in mind, and that's how they found Disneyland's home. 116 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: It was a hundred and sixty acre Orange Grove and Anaheim, 117 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: and this location met all of Walt's requirements. It had 118 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: to be freeway accessible, adjacent to or within Los Angeles, 119 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: and affordable. Yeah, and you know, nowadays, the Disney Company 120 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: is huge. That is so huge that it's really hard 121 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: for most people and even me to think about it 122 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: ever having shallow pockets. But at the time it was 123 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: a very different story. Uh. You know, Walt was really 124 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: struggling to figure out how he was going to finance 125 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: this huge vision of his and to build a theme park. 126 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: And it actually led to the genesis of the television 127 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: series Walt Disney's Disneyland. Uh. That show came out of 128 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: the need for funding, and Walt struck a deal with 129 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: ABC in nine four that he would for host for 130 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: them this hour long weekly series which was about Disneyland 131 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: and also about sort of um, you know, exploration of 132 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: concepts in society and technology and storytelling. Uh. And in 133 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: exchange for him hosting this, ABC was funding the construction 134 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: of the theme park project. And just as a side note, 135 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: ABC eventually became part of the Disney Company. UM decades 136 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: down the road. So it's a partnership to start in 137 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: the fifties, but went on for a long time and 138 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: now the same thing. They're all together. So once the 139 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: funding and location were secured, construction started and went on 140 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: at a really breakneck pace. They broke ground on July 141 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four, and just a year later, on July fifteenth, 142 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty five, Disneyland opened to the public. It cost 143 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: an estimated seventeen million dollars to build, which may not 144 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: it sounds like a lot, but I think nowadays if 145 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: a similar project were built, it would be in the 146 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: billions and billions. Yeah, that was seventeen million, nineteen fifty 147 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: five dollars, so it was a lot of money. Uh. 148 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: And opening day any account you read of it, it 149 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: sounds insane. Uh. There was so much anticipation leading up 150 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: to the opening of the park because Disney at this 151 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: point had a successful animation studio. He had already made 152 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: a name for himself in terms of entertainment. Uh, and 153 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: so many people were so excited at this thought of 154 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: an entire park devoted to this concept of you know, 155 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: storytelling and animation that they were even using counterfeit tickets 156 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: to get in. The park was overcrowded, way past probably 157 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: what was a smart capacity. The temperature was a problem. 158 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: They were in the middle of a heatway ave in 159 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: California and it was a hundred and ten degrees fahrenheit. Uh. 160 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: And on top of it being super hot, there was 161 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: a plumber strike going on, so not all of the 162 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: water fountains had been hooked up, so people couldn't get 163 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: a quick drink of water to help deal with the 164 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: heat um and there was fresh asphalt that had been 165 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: poured as late as the night before the park open, 166 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: and it hadn't all cured properly because of the heat conditions, 167 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: and so there are stories of people's shoes sinking into 168 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: the asphalts because it had this weird rubbery texture to it, 169 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: but it was sticky. But even though, uh, it was 170 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: a bumpy opening day and was super overcrowded, and a 171 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: few weeks after it, things were still a little bit crazy, 172 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: but the problems got ironed out and things picked up, 173 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: and pretty quickly the park became really really popular. But 174 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: if you look at a map from those first days, 175 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: you'll see that New Orleans Square, which is the area 176 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: where the hind Mansion lives, is not there. That spot 177 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: on the map is blank. So even though Walt had 178 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 1: been interested in a haunted house from the absolute earliest 179 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: meetings with Harper Goff, it wasn't part of the initial launch. 180 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: And it wasn't long before Walt's mind turned back to 181 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: the haunted house that had been part of the Disneyland 182 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: original plan. Yeah, once the park did get past those 183 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: initial bumps, it really became apparent that it was going 184 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: to have to expand quickly to meet demand, UH, and 185 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: so Walt went right back to that haunted house idea. 186 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: In n seven, Walt put a studio animator named Ken 187 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: Anderson in charge of the project. Because Ken had worked 188 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and Snow White Scary Adventures, 189 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: which are both kind of so called dark rides because 190 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: they have a lot of low light trickery and effects, 191 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: he was the natural choice to helm the haunting of 192 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: what would soon become the New Orleans Square section of 193 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: the park. And while Ken was working on research for 194 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: this project, Walt UH went public with the news of 195 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: the expansion. He talked about all of the things they 196 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: were going to add to this new New Orleans Square area, 197 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: and he even told a BBC interviewer in that he 198 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: was building a retirement home for ghosts who may have 199 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: been displaced from their original haunts during the war. So 200 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: he was kind of trying to contextualize the concept to 201 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: um being as he was in Great Britain at the time, 202 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: and say, no, you know all the bombings and everything, 203 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: there are lots of ghosts sit down the place to go. 204 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: I'm building them a place to go. Just kind of 205 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: silly and odd, but as Yeah, I don't know how 206 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: I would feel about that if I were living in Britain, 207 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: how I would feel about it if I were the 208 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: interviewer ether right, like, wait, you're doing what but you know, 209 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: let's talk about Hogwarts again. What if something happened to Hogwarts? 210 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: Where would all those ghosts? Yeah? So, while kept detailing 211 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: his plans for a park expansion with various news outlets, 212 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: including shops and restaurants that would join the Haunted House 213 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: in this newly defined area of the park, and Ken 214 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: kept looking for design inspirations. So they knew from the 215 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: outset that they wanted to have this kind of old 216 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: South Field to the the area that would become New 217 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: Orleans Square. And so Anderson sought out Louisiana plantation houses 218 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: for design inspiration. Uh, you know, they knew they wanted 219 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: this Antebellum look. But it turned out that the house 220 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: that really sort of provided the most inspiration for um, 221 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 1: the Haunted Mansion that's in Disneyland. Other ones have different 222 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: architectural styles. Uh, it was actually a house that is 223 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: on North Charles Street in Baltimore, Maryland, called the Evergreen House. 224 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: And this is a house that had been bequeathed to 225 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: John Hopkins University in ninety two. Uh and it really 226 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: did provide the picture perfect image of what Anderson and 227 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: Disney had in mind, and the Disneyland Haunted Mansion, there's 228 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: a really strong resemblance to the Evergreen House in all 229 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: artists concept sketches from the house up to the house 230 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: was dilapid. It hadn't broken down with this sort of overgrown, 231 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: unkempt landscape, which is really what you would probably expect 232 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: for a haunted house. But this approach really didn't go 233 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: over well with Walt. He couldn't reconcile having this broken 234 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: down house in any kind of style settled within the 235 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: otherwise christine surroundings of Disneyland. So there's a now famous 236 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: quote which I also find so charming. This is from Walt, 237 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: and he said, we'll take care of the outside and 238 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: let the ghosts take care of the inside. Uh So, 239 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: no matter how haunted the house was going to be, 240 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: he was pretty insistent that I have a perfectly groomed exterior, 241 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: and there was disagreement about it. But rather than dig 242 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: in on this issue of the exterior design, Kenny Anderson 243 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: just figured he would move over and focus on interior 244 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: for a while and they would kind of table that discussion. 245 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: And I'm sure it will come as a surprise to 246 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: none of our listeners to hear that one of the 247 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: major inspirations for the Haunted Mansion was the Winchester Street House. Uh. 248 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: Anderson had actually toured the Winchester House in San Jose 249 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: on a weekend getaway while this issue of pristine versus 250 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 1: ramshackle exterior had been debated, and you know, almost immediately 251 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: upon the tour, Uh he realized that this was really 252 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: what the inside of their Haunted Mansion should kind of 253 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: look like. With these ideas of rooms that don't go 254 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: places and architecture that doesn't always make sense together because 255 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: as we know, the Winchester House was built by Mrs 256 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: Winchester constantly under construction in an effort to confuse spirits 257 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: that might be angry about the Winchester family fortune coming 258 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: from weapons that had killed them. So that's an interesting house. 259 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: If anybody has not been there, I highly recommend the 260 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: Winchester House. So we have an episode on it. We do, UH, 261 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: And it is really clear if you've been to the 262 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: Haunted Mansion that there's a link there stylistically, Shall we 263 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: take a second, Yeah, let's let's talk about Hawes from 264 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: while we think about confusing ghosts and talk about our 265 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: response or something that's not confusing at all. True to 266 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: this initial concept that the theme park was going to 267 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: be a way to just tell stories in three dimensions, 268 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: the Haunted Mansion had to have a compelling story to 269 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: go in the attraction. But it took a few hits 270 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: and misses on this whole story to wind up with 271 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: what guests are familiar with today, And even the ones 272 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: that we're about to talk about are not really what 273 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: guests are familiar with today. It took a lot What 274 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: are what are guests familiar with today? If people have 275 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: never gone, are we going to talk about it? Then 276 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: we'll kind of get there at the end. We won't 277 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: dig too deep into that because you know, we've got experience. 278 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: It is super fun. Well but uh, but we will 279 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: talk in a bit about how things kind of ended 280 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: up having to change. So some of the discarded stories 281 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: are really fun though. So ken Anderson, bless him, was 282 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: just working his tail off. He first put together a 283 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: story treatment that featured It was all centered around this 284 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: sea captain named Captain Bartholome you Gore, and it was 285 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: a walkthrough tour that was led by Gorge Butler Beauregard. 286 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: And this story centered on the captain, who in some 287 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: versions and in some notes um has the name Gideon 288 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: Goerlea and then earned the nickname of Gore through his 289 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: behavior because in these he brought his bride Priscilla to 290 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: the mansion. But Priscilla was apparently a curious lass and 291 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: in this version that Anderson cooked up, um, her curiosity 292 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: was her undoing. She foolishly opened this chest that she 293 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: found in the attic and discovered that her beloved husband 294 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: was in flat in fact Black Bart the pirate. Uh. 295 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: And after she makes this discovery and has this revelation, 296 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: she vanished. Uh. So in some versions of the story, 297 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: poor Priscilla is bricked into the cellar by her husband, 298 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: sort of cask of a Montiato style if you've read 299 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: that a Grolan po uh short story. And in other 300 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: versions that Anderson worked on, she was either locked into 301 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: a c chest or thrown down a well. Uh. And 302 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: her haunting of the captain in this story uh in 303 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: this plot line led him to hang himself in the 304 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: house's rafters, and so all of this is part of 305 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: what makes the Haunting of the Haunted House. The second version, 306 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: which was also put together by Ken Anderson, featured this 307 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 1: storyline that was intended to really draw guests in by 308 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: marrying the real world with the mythology. And in this version, 309 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 1: the tour guide would explain to guests that the Disney 310 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: Company had moved an entire plantation mansion, which was blood 311 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: mere manner, to Disneylands to create an authentic centerpiece for 312 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: New Orleans Square, but trickster spirits were forever wreaking havoc 313 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: on the restoration of the house. Also featured in this 314 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: tale was a deceased construction worker who haunted the site, 315 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: which was abandoned after his untimely death. That one did 316 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: hit either. Back to the drawing board and Anderson did 317 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: a third approach, and this one was really a much 318 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: lighter approach to the whole thing. It actually featured Walt 319 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: Disney himself acting as a tour guide via prerecorded tape segments, 320 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: and he was leading guests to a ghost wedding. So 321 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: it was so much simpler storyline, but that way they 322 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,239 Speaker 1: could incorporate lots of ghosts without having to work up 323 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: lots of backstory for each of them, because they were 324 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: all just attendants at this wedding. His fourth story idea 325 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 1: to gets inspiration from the ninety nine Disney animated feature 326 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr Toad. The second part 327 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: of the film was an adaptation of the legend of 328 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: Sleepy Hollow, and Anderson thought the story needed to have 329 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: the headless horseman provide sort of fertile ground for this 330 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: haunted mansion storyline. So a great deal of this treatment 331 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: involved using folly effects to create the sound of the 332 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,719 Speaker 1: horseman's hoof beats following guests along their tour. I'm imagining 333 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: it like Monty Python would not be funny or it 334 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: would not be scary. It would be very silly. Well, 335 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: that's scary, and silly comes up yes later on. So 336 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: the wedding concept was also there in this idea, and 337 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: the guests were famous monsters like Frankenstein's Monster and Dracula. 338 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: The bride, Mademoiselle Vampire, would get a case of the jitters, 339 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: not sure whether she wanted to marry most of your Boogeyman, 340 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: and just as the chaos was reaching a fever pitch, 341 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: a tour guide would escort the park guests outside to safety, 342 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: And this fourth version of the story was the one 343 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: that was approved to go forward, although if you are 344 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: a fan of the attraction, you will note that that 345 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: is not the story you see on the ride. No. Uh, 346 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: there's a par to me that wishes we could go 347 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: to an alternate history and see that version, because it 348 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: sounds really fun. They're just picturing this panicky vampire bride 349 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: uh and allegedly, uh, the escape was going to be 350 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: through one of the fireplaces, which could have been a 351 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: potentially really cool effect. Ah. Almost from the moment that 352 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,959 Speaker 1: Walt decided to expand Disneyland and build the Haunted Mansion, 353 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: he had designers working on ideas for the detail elements 354 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: of the attraction, while Ken Anderson focused on the structural design. Yeah, 355 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: he had had lots of concept sketches being made throughout, 356 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: and as all of these different storylines were being put together, 357 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: some of them were getting sketch treatments. But as they 358 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: were settling on this fourth storyline of the Winding uh 359 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: in nine, Walt put together what became a really famous 360 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: two man team that generated many of the effects and 361 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: moments that really make the Haunted Mansion a crowd favorite 362 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: even today. Yale Gracie was a background artist and model builder, 363 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: and Rolely Crump, which is a nickname for Roland, had 364 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: been working at the studios as an in between her. 365 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: Crump had this fondness for creating kinetic sculpture, so odd 366 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: mobiles and other kind of pieces of moving art. I 367 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: love those, by the way. And the story goes that 368 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: Walt thought these two had just the right crossover of 369 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: interests to make an ideal pairing to create the illusions 370 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: that Haunted House attraction would need. And uh, this pair 371 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: of artists spent basically all of nine hold up together. 372 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: They were in on one floor of a building just 373 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: reading ghost stories. They were testing out illusions that they 374 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: were coming up with together. And when Crump talks about it, 375 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: he routinely credits Gracie as being like the idea man, 376 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: and then he would start to embellish and expand on them, 377 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: and they would refine all of this together. So it 378 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: sounded like it was. It really was a very fruitful 379 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: and pretty enjoyable pairing. I think that's clear from the 380 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 1: story we're about to tell. The pair became really really 381 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: well known for their fantastical exploits and um for their prankishness. Yeah, 382 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: and Jason Cerell's book about the Haunted Mansion's history, Rolely 383 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: Crump tells this story of an incident that was created 384 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: by all of this experimenting combined with with pranking. Yale 385 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 1: had all his ghosts and magic strewn throughout the room. 386 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: Once we got a call from personnel asking us to 387 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: leave the lights on because the janitors didn't want to 388 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: come in if it was dark. Well, we did, but 389 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: we rigged the room. We put in an infrared meme 390 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: and when it was tripped, the room went to black 391 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: light and all the ghost effects came on. When we 392 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: came in the next morning, all the effects were still 393 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: running and there was a broom in the center of 394 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: the floor. Personnel called and said, you'll have to clean 395 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: your own room because the janitors won't go in there anymore. 396 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: Those rotten boys. It is so like the pranks you 397 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: would expect like a teenage kid. So one of the 398 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: interesting things, uh and historically significant things about the work 399 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: that Gracie and Crump were doing together is that even 400 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: though they were put together to create cutting edge effects. 401 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 1: Most of the tricks that they were employing were really 402 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: really old school. They both had an interest in magic tricks, 403 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: and they used a lot of tricks that had been 404 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: part of magic shows and theatrical sleight of hand for decades, 405 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: including the illusion that is known as Pepper's Ghost, which 406 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: is from the mid eighteen hundreds, and that's a setup 407 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: where action that is taking place in an unseen area 408 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: uh that the audience can't see, is reflected off a 409 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: pane of glass that they can see, and it creates 410 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: this look of translucent, floating images that look like ghosts. 411 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: And they used that and that's still used in the 412 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: Honey Mansion today, like a lot of the ghosts that 413 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: you see are doing the Pepper's Ghost illusion. The year 414 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: that Roally Crump and Yale Gracy spent together in nineteen 415 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: fifty nine culminated in this demo show where they displayed 416 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: a presentation of a version of the whole attraction. And 417 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: this demo was a huge hodgepodge of tricks and ideas. 418 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: And even though they were working with Anderson's fourth story 419 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: plan involving the Ghoulish Wedding, they had brought in some 420 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: elements from the abandoned plots as well, including the Sea Captain. UH. 421 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: The Sea Captain Is illusion is one that's talked about 422 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 1: at UH. This illusion that the pair created involved a 423 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: rain soaked ghost showing up there was water, there was 424 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 1: a flooding effect in the room, The Captain's doomed bride 425 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: would materialize, and the water would then recede and leave 426 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: only these unearthly blobs of moisture behind it. And it 427 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: is one of those super famous, often spoken of moments 428 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: that the people who witnessed it will still in interviews 429 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: kind of wax rhapsodic about it and how it was 430 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: one of the most amazing things they have ever seen 431 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: in their lives. UM. And with that, we're actually going 432 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: to cliffhang you a little bit until the Haunted Mansion 433 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: is rich, So we are taking too episodes is rich, 434 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: and and the moment of that we're pausing. There's kind 435 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: of its own cliffhanger. This whole thing got tabled for 436 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: a little while. Yeah, and we'll talk about how that 437 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: all came to be UH in our next episode, which 438 00:24:52,680 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: is a follow up. Thank you so much for joining 439 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 1: us today for this classic. If you have heard any 440 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: kind of email address or maybe a Facebook you are 441 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: l during the course of the episode. 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