Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey what's up, y'all?
Speaker 1: This is Questlove And as you've noticed throughout June, we
Speaker 1: are celebrating Black Music Money by releasing an episode every day.
Speaker 1: So every day you're either going to hear a special
Speaker 1: pick QLs Classic and on Wednesdays we're dropping new two
Speaker 1: part episodes with Queene Brady and James.
Speaker 2: Poyser, both of which were filmed in studio, so make
Speaker 2: sure you also watch us on YouTube. We are closing
Speaker 2: out with one of the architects of Black music Money,
Speaker 2: the amazing Kenny Gamble.
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. You know that's all I got, Ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen. This is another episode of Quest Love Supreme.
Speaker 1: We have this Preme team with us. We have Fine
Speaker 1: Tikeolo in the house. Yeah, and we got Boss Bill
Speaker 1: and yeah you hear loud and clear, we got Unpaid
Speaker 1: Bill and we also have Sugar Steve and of course
Speaker 1: like ya, how are you? This is a special episode.
Speaker 1: We are not doing the Supreme rold Call. We are
Speaker 1: in the presence of Black Music Royalty, Universal Music Royalty,
Speaker 1: and it's just going to cut this song off in
Speaker 1: a minute too.
Speaker 2: This is my jam.
Speaker 1: No, the best part is about to happen. Oh, ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen, we are blessed to be in the presence
Speaker 1: of one of the greatest, one of the greatest composers, businessman, producers,
Speaker 1: so and so funk. Yeah, I can't even perform us something.
Speaker 2: Just be quiet, talking, ladies and gentlemen. The man who.
Speaker 1: Gave us the sound of Philadelphia, the man who gave
Speaker 1: me my own career. Without him, there is no sound
Speaker 1: of Philadelphia, the one and only Kenny Gamble question.
Speaker 2: And I almost don't want you to.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. You got wait wait till my part come on.
Speaker 3: It's coming, don't don't. Can we tell people what the
Speaker 3: song this is MFS Big Mysteries of the World.
Speaker 1: You kipped it? No, I didn't. This is so good.
Speaker 1: I had to go back to the top.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, but this is right there.
Speaker 1: Actually I went to the end of the song to
Speaker 1: avoid that bridge. But I didn't know that meant so
Speaker 1: much that you know, I just ruined the moment for you.
Speaker 1: You did, you did the quest. This this is what
Speaker 1: I just argue about things.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 1: Uh, mister Kenny Gamble, doctor Kenmble Man, thank you, this.
Speaker 2: Is that's beautiful. Wow, what about.
Speaker 1: Oh man?
Speaker 3: I was listening to you Can't Be You can be
Speaker 3: what you want to be this morning in the shower.
Speaker 1: That's jam you want to be.
Speaker 2: It's a great one yea and one million miles from
Speaker 2: the ground. So we're just gonna start.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, Yeah, I'm yeah, and I want to say
Speaker 5: just it's I'm so. It's such an honor to have
Speaker 5: you here because you're the first record label. As a kid,
Speaker 5: I knew exactly what the records were going to sound
Speaker 5: like just from the label.
Speaker 2: From the label.
Speaker 5: I remember like my aunt, she was like a big
Speaker 5: you know, fill international, so she had everything. She was
Speaker 5: a she was a really big Gene carn fan, and
Speaker 5: so she used to play like I'm Back for More,
Speaker 5: like that's like one.
Speaker 2: Of my favorite.
Speaker 5: But I remember like going through a record collection and
Speaker 5: anytime I saw like that green the green label with
Speaker 5: the little red, I knew it was gonna be strings.
Speaker 5: I knew it was going be like super clean, like I
Speaker 5: just knew that.
Speaker 1: And they tried to make it red, black and green.
Speaker 2: You know about that?
Speaker 1: So the vinyl was black black, right because the people
Speaker 1: the power levels so okay, So was it by design,
Speaker 1: because there was a point in history when that logo
Speaker 1: didn't have the two white dots in the middle logo.
Speaker 4: Yes, the very first like the odd Uh, I mean,
Speaker 4: I miss you.
Speaker 2: Uh, how.
Speaker 1: There are the two white dots aren't in the middle
Speaker 1: of the Philly International Look. That didn't come until like
Speaker 1: seventy three, So there are a few albums that are
Speaker 1: without that white dots. I thought that was by.
Speaker 2: No design and just the first I'm mean about.
Speaker 1: What could have been different pressing plants similar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's great, man, it really is. And uh,
Speaker 2: I tell you we we tried our best, and we
Speaker 2: had good people with us too.
Speaker 1: You guys succeeded as far as I'm yes.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm thankful, thank you very much, and I'm glad
Speaker 2: to be here. This is a beautiful thing with a
Speaker 2: lot of energy going on. Were you born in Philadelphia,
Speaker 2: South Philly? Yeah? Where fifteenth in Christian.
Speaker 6: Wow, down the block from where you live now.
Speaker 1: Right down the block from where I lived, and you
Speaker 1: still live there, still live there.
Speaker 2: How does it feel to grow up there?
Speaker 1: To be born there and see where it it was
Speaker 1: sort of dissolved to and you single handedly, well you
Speaker 1: did gentrification the right way, the right way. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: I had those restaurants. I loved eating those restaurants. Everything
Speaker 1: that you did for that neighborhood.
Speaker 2: It was it's it's been, you know it really to me,
Speaker 2: it was like it was like a no brainer almost.
Speaker 2: You know, how can you live in the world where
Speaker 2: you got the area that I grew up in, where
Speaker 2: you got Malcolm X, you got Muhamad Ali, you got
Speaker 2: Eli to Muhammads, you got revenuely On Sullivan, you got
Speaker 2: all these great people.
Speaker 1: Talking about building our community.
Speaker 2: And then I used to go to a lot of
Speaker 2: meetings and now I would ask people, I said, well,
Speaker 2: who's going to do it? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: We all say, you know.
Speaker 1: You know, we should do this, and we should do that,
Speaker 1: and we could have this, and we could have that.
Speaker 2: But the question is is who's going to do it.
Speaker 2: So with my children and everything, with Cleave and Saladan
Speaker 2: and an Idea and my family, you know, we decided
Speaker 2: to give it a try. And I didn't live there
Speaker 2: all the time. Of course, I lived there, and then
Speaker 2: I moved away like everybody else do. I moved into
Speaker 2: the suburbs and it was really nice, but I kept
Speaker 2: thinking about South Philly, you know, and I'm always inside,
Speaker 2: i feel, because that's where our office was and everything.
Speaker 2: So eventually a little inspiration comes came and said, look,
Speaker 2: and when we did, let's clean up the ghetto. That
Speaker 2: was that was one of those ones that kept pounding
Speaker 2: in your head. And so it's it's like, ah, you
Speaker 2: gotta put one foot foot forward and see what you
Speaker 2: can do. And and it all started pretty much with
Speaker 2: with buying the properties. Once we started buying all the
Speaker 2: properties and we had so many of them, he said,
Speaker 2: and what we're gonna do with all these raggedy houses,
Speaker 2: all all these bigger lots and raggedy houses and uh.
Speaker 2: And so it's just a matter of, hey, we're going
Speaker 2: to clean up the ghetto. We're going to rebuild. And
Speaker 2: the way to we not only rebuild the houses and whatever,
Speaker 2: but rebuild the people, rebuild the culture and and everything.
Speaker 2: And so so it started working. It's we've been announced.
Speaker 2: We moved like nineteen ninety. Nineteen ninety is when we
Speaker 2: moved back to South Philly, you know, and we were
Speaker 2: we were in Gladwin, you know, because it was beautiful
Speaker 2: out and glad one and but it wasn't as beautiful
Speaker 2: as it was when we moved back to South Philly,
Speaker 2: although it was a culture shock for my kids everybody,
Speaker 2: you know, but see where we're at now, you know.
Speaker 2: But it's like one of those things where you know,
Speaker 2: you can't you can't really keep asking somebody else to
Speaker 2: do something for you talk about that you can do
Speaker 2: for yourself, you know. So that's pretty much what this
Speaker 2: is an effort. And then it's not by myself. We
Speaker 2: got hundreds of people that really saw where we were
Speaker 2: coming from. And you rebuild a whole neighborhood, you rebuild
Speaker 2: a whole community of people.
Speaker 6: Not to mention the school system.
Speaker 2: And the schools, and that was everything is evolves around health,
Speaker 2: good health and education. That's it. So we have some
Speaker 2: tremendous health programs that we work on. In education was
Speaker 2: the was the number one thing that we got involved with,
Speaker 2: and that was the charter schools, and so we have
Speaker 2: eight charter schools. And believe me, it's not an easy thing.
Speaker 2: It's not easy. It's going to take it's going to
Speaker 2: take years, in years to reverse this this consciousness that
Speaker 2: within especially the African American community. But it's working, it
Speaker 2: can and it will work, you know. So so it's
Speaker 2: not it's not it's not easy.
Speaker 1: Did you know that you were going to see it
Speaker 1: through from the very beginning, assuming Matt you started acquiring
Speaker 1: the property in the late eighties, because even I heard,
Speaker 1: like I when my uncle used to drive me to
Speaker 1: and from school and we used to go like all
Speaker 1: that dilapidated, busted down property, and he was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, Kenny Gamble owns all and I could imagine
Speaker 1: like all these blocks and he's like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: And I couldn't see that far in the future to
Speaker 1: figure out what vision you had to refurbish it and
Speaker 1: restore it back to what it is now.
Speaker 4: Like so from what year did you start to say that.
Speaker 1: I'm going to rebuild?
Speaker 2: Well, we did records at fourteen and fifteen blocks in
Speaker 2: South Philly, or well we well we started like from
Speaker 2: from like eleventh Street all the way up to like
Speaker 2: twenty fourth Street, from South Street all the way over
Speaker 2: to Washington Avenue. That was the area. And within that
Speaker 2: area there were a lot of vacant We had maps,
Speaker 2: we had like a war room, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: maps that at every house, every abandoned lot, every school,
Speaker 2: everything on these on these maps and what we did
Speaker 2: is came up with our plan. Our plan was to
Speaker 2: be able to build a community that you could take
Speaker 2: and have some open spaces, you know where you'd have
Speaker 2: some some gardens and have something open. The schools, I mean,
Speaker 2: this has been the hardest part is the schools, I
Speaker 2: mean the education thing. And wasn't developing it, like you
Speaker 2: just can't tell the city.
Speaker 1: You got to work with them.
Speaker 2: You got to work with.
Speaker 1: Them, even if it's a private school or well, these
Speaker 1: are charter schools, so these are public private schools.
Speaker 2: The problem with private schools is the economics of it,
Speaker 2: you know, and and because many of our people don't
Speaker 2: have the money to pay to go to a charter school,
Speaker 2: I mean to a private shart school. Yeah. So so
Speaker 2: we have we got one wonderful thing going. And one
Speaker 2: of the things I can't think of it now. You know.
Speaker 2: That's one of the things that happened when you get old,
Speaker 2: you start missing things here you'd be thinking about it.
Speaker 2: It's gone, but it'll come back, it'll come back later.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Man. So how did music first enter your life
Speaker 1: growing up in Philadelphia?
Speaker 2: What got you into the music? Well, you know, the
Speaker 2: music to me was always there. I always loved music.
Speaker 2: And there was a day that that sticks out in
Speaker 2: my life. Right the day that sticks out in my
Speaker 2: life was there used to be a baptism that used
Speaker 2: to have happened on fifteen Christian where I used to live,
Speaker 2: and it was the Daddy Grace Church prayer House of prayer.
Speaker 2: So the bands, I don't know if you ever heard
Speaker 2: their bands in there, but it was around my birthdays
Speaker 2: when they have their their convocations and uh. And that
Speaker 2: morning when my mother I asked her, I said, well,
Speaker 2: who is that you know up the street and they
Speaker 2: were out there baptizing people with this hose with the hose, yeah,
Speaker 2: with the water holes like and it was so interesting
Speaker 2: that even today I still go there because they always
Speaker 2: had the convocation around my birthday. They have it all
Speaker 2: across the country, by the way, and so last that's
Speaker 2: what really got me listening to music. That when and
Speaker 2: when you listen to our music, listen to them horns
Speaker 2: in there, because I try to get them horns going
Speaker 2: in there, and it was good. One other thing you
Speaker 2: asked me was seeing the whole project through the h
Speaker 2: we started in the seventies with the buying. The properties
Speaker 2: were cleaned up the ghetto. The intention was to buy
Speaker 2: those properties and get the land first, and so that
Speaker 2: was there was a brother's name was Norman Gatzon who
Speaker 2: worked along with us, and he was he's a real
Speaker 2: estate guy. He knew a lot about real estate, and
Speaker 2: my wife she knew about real estate. So we kind
Speaker 2: of disguised Norman as a person because then we could
Speaker 2: get them for very low prices because at that particular time,
Speaker 2: the property in these neighborhoods that I mean these vacant
Speaker 2: lots and whatever, at that time they were very very cheap,
Speaker 2: you know, and the city really wanted to see things developed,
Speaker 2: and they had a couple of public housing programs and
Speaker 2: so we were able to build up construction, development come
Speaker 2: and it worked out good. It worked out real good
Speaker 2: that the city of Philadelphia. It's not easy. It's not
Speaker 2: easy because it's a lot of red tape involved in
Speaker 2: all this stuff, but you know, you got to go
Speaker 2: through it to get to where you want to go.
Speaker 2: And that's what started the whole thing. But the one
Speaker 2: ingredient as we were doing this, brother, the one thing
Speaker 2: that came into my mind was why haven't these programs
Speaker 2: worked before? You have so many good intention people that
Speaker 2: want to do something in the community. And what I
Speaker 2: found out is that in the development business is that
Speaker 2: you have people who live out of the African American
Speaker 2: community doing all the work in the community. And so
Speaker 2: what we decided to do is to live in the community.
Speaker 2: So that was the biggest decision of all is to
Speaker 2: move back into South Philadelphia and be there so that
Speaker 2: the neighborhood, because it was all in the newspapers, you know,
Speaker 2: Kenny Gamble boos back to southfully, you know they once
Speaker 2: because the what do you call it when the neighborhood's
Speaker 2: being turned around? Gentrification, thank you brothers, that was starting
Speaker 2: to happen. And even today, I mean, it's just unbelievable.
Speaker 2: And you got lots in South Philadelphia that were at
Speaker 2: that particular time maybe you know, you could buy them
Speaker 2: for five thousand dollars or whatever, but today those same
Speaker 2: lots today might cost you fifty one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: And so it's become a money game. In fact, all
Speaker 2: of it is based on economics. And it's just like
Speaker 2: New York and Harlem. Same thing happened there, same things
Speaker 2: happened in Washington, DC. All over the country. You know,
Speaker 2: so that's what happened. Wow.
Speaker 1: So with music, what you were a guitar player correct
Speaker 1: or you played.
Speaker 2: A still guitar. I've heard about you dabbling guitar back. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I got maybe about six cords that I can play.
Speaker 1: What was the first musical performance he gave, like, how
Speaker 1: did you developed your chops?
Speaker 2: Well, well, you know, we had a band called the Romeos,
Speaker 2: and always we had some good people, I mean Rolling Chambers,
Speaker 2: he was a guitar players. Oh, he was great man,
Speaker 2: you know. And and then his brother Karl was a
Speaker 2: drummer called Chambers. And you had Tom Bell who played keyboards.
Speaker 2: You had Leon Huff who was with us who played
Speaker 2: keyboards and worlds and all that stuff. And you had
Speaker 2: Lenny Pecoola who was played the organ. And so we
Speaker 2: used to play. We used to play on the weekends
Speaker 2: all the time. All the time. We play on the weekends,
Speaker 2: and and that that was a lot of fun. That
Speaker 2: was a whole lot of fun working on the weekend.
Speaker 1: Well, it's I would say that. So you're saying that
Speaker 1: the gathering of the what you would form or dub
Speaker 1: the sound of Philadelphia. The Tom Bell and all those guys,
Speaker 1: they you all started together when you were in high school.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, tom Bell. I met him. His sister. My
Speaker 2: name is Barbara. She used to be in my class,
Speaker 2: and so she asked me.
Speaker 1: She said, come on walk me home one day. One day,
Speaker 1: so I walked home. She lived on.
Speaker 2: Parish Street fifty fiftieth in Parish. When I got to
Speaker 2: the house, I heard somebody playing the piano. So I asked,
Speaker 2: I said, who was that playing the piano? She said,
Speaker 2: that's my brother, Tommy. I said, I Me, Me, Me
Speaker 2: and Tommy Bell. We wrote three songs that day.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 2: Really we still got those songs. I mean. And the
Speaker 2: funny part about it is I.
Speaker 1: Keep telling them, I said, tom I said, we gotta
Speaker 1: cut them songs. I said, we gotta cut them songs, man,
Speaker 1: because if we go, nobody will know, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean?
Speaker 6: Well, wait, I got a question. You weren't you raised?
Speaker 6: Were you raised Jehovah's witness Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 6: So how did the music? How did you? Because I'm
Speaker 6: kind of strict when it comes to the music, or
Speaker 6: how did you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, yeah, they have their own music, Joe's Witnesses.
Speaker 6: But they don't even know that scary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean they're not their own music that
Speaker 2: they have their own little song book. It's not like
Speaker 2: going to a Baptist church or whatever.
Speaker 1: And they got you were never raised in that sort
Speaker 1: of none hollering fine brimstone.
Speaker 2: No, not really none, never raised in that. But you
Speaker 2: know what, I loved it, you know, I love I
Speaker 2: love being in the House of Prayer, and and I
Speaker 2: still go around there.
Speaker 1: I still go there even now when I want to.
Speaker 2: I want to. I want to see the real thing happening.
Speaker 2: I mean, you get it, like you said, you go there,
Speaker 2: go the good meal, right and and uh not only
Speaker 2: spiritual food, but you get some physical food, you know,
Speaker 2: and uh wow. And so I always keep it on
Speaker 2: on in mind.
Speaker 4: You know your partnership with uh brother Leon Huff, when
Speaker 4: did that?
Speaker 2: Uh uh? That was that was really the key to
Speaker 2: the whole thing. There used to be the Schubert Theater
Speaker 2: on Broad Streuss And and Huff and I we were
Speaker 2: working in the same building. I was working on the
Speaker 2: sixth floor and Huff was working on the fourth floor.
Speaker 2: I was working with a guy named Jerry Ross who
Speaker 2: had a label the Dream Lovers. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you remember them. When we get married, and all those
Speaker 2: songs like that. And uh, and Huff was working with
Speaker 2: Maderra and associates. They had they had Bunny Siegler, he
Speaker 2: was working with them, and you had Lynn Barry who
Speaker 2: did one, two three at they were working with Leslie Gore.
Speaker 2: I mean, so me and me and me and Huff
Speaker 2: just met up one day coming in that building and uh,
Speaker 2: and we started talking because it wasn't that many African
Speaker 2: Americans in that building.
Speaker 4: So was it kind of like a real building for Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: There you go, the same thing, but much much smaller
Speaker 2: than the Brill Building, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 2: so we was able to to meet up and talk
Speaker 2: a little bit about what we wanted to do, you know,
Speaker 2: with our dreams and aspirations were. And so I went
Speaker 2: over his eye. I said, I'm gonna come over your house.
Speaker 2: He lived in Camden. So I went over his house
Speaker 2: one day and we started writing songs. It was it
Speaker 2: was just like me meeting Tommy Bell. Me enough must
Speaker 2: have wrote maybe about six seven songs, you know, and uh.
Speaker 2: From that point on, the Huff got in the band
Speaker 2: the day. That's what made it really us gel even
Speaker 2: closer because we would be arsing all the time and
Speaker 2: the key to the Romeos was that the Romeos was
Speaker 2: a band that we used to take songs that were
Speaker 2: already out that were very popular, like Safer they keep
Speaker 2: on Pushing, like Curtis Mayfield and people like that. We
Speaker 2: would take their songs and rearrange them. We do a
Speaker 2: lot of medals we do. People be familiar with the songs,
Speaker 2: but they would be different. So and huff Is he's
Speaker 2: a singer, Roland was a singer, Tommy was a singer.
Speaker 2: I could sing a little bit. So we used to
Speaker 2: do like the high Lows.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, we were like yeah, like like take six.
Speaker 2: We used to do that kind of music too, you know.
Speaker 1: And I really liked that better than anything, you know,
Speaker 1: when we all sang together, because I never really did
Speaker 1: like being on stage myself, not by.
Speaker 2: Myself, you know. I never did Strength and Numbers, Strength
Speaker 2: and Numbers. It was beautiful, you know.
Speaker 1: So, so do you know the first song that you
Speaker 1: charted on an artist pre Philly International, pre fully International,
Speaker 1: the first hit that we had before International?
Speaker 4: What was the label seemed like in Philly, Like, I know,
Speaker 4: There's Lost Night.
Speaker 2: It was a lot of them, Yeah, there was a
Speaker 2: lot of them. It was Chancellor there was CAMEO Parkway
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 1: Did that like record for all these labels, although I
Speaker 1: have a collection of like fifty labels, all with different
Speaker 1: unbelievable and of the Andrew I was a fan of
Speaker 1: you Can I knew him, Yeah, unbelievable he was. His
Speaker 1: voice was like unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 4: So how how was it that we had like over twenty.
Speaker 1: Labels in Philadelphia and then suddenly they just started to
Speaker 1: dissolve one by one.
Speaker 2: The industry changed, Okay, industry change, it's like it's changing now.
Speaker 2: The industry changed then because it went from independent distributors
Speaker 2: to the corporations taken over. Say, for example, you would
Speaker 2: have I would say in Philadelphia, they were about let's
Speaker 2: say fifteen distributors in Philadelphia, and those distributors might might
Speaker 2: be Rosen's was a distributor on North broad Street and
Speaker 2: he would sell he would distribute maybe Mercury Records, ARSCA Records,
Speaker 2: and maybe Epic. Then you'd have William's distribution. They would
Speaker 2: have four or five other labels. Now, the thing of
Speaker 2: it is is that it got down to the point
Speaker 2: where where the industry became more consolidated, like a Chips
Speaker 2: Chippets had Motown, it had Scepter, it had had all
Speaker 2: these labels, you know, and you would you would make
Speaker 2: a record. We made records, and uh, it was much
Speaker 2: easier in those days for us because you make a record,
Speaker 2: you go get Chippets to distribute it for you and
Speaker 2: you get it was airplay was the whole thing. You
Speaker 2: got to get your record on the radio. Somebody's got
Speaker 2: to play it in order for people to want it.
Speaker 2: And and so the whole industry changed when the CBS's,
Speaker 2: the Warner Brothers and all of these major corporations started
Speaker 2: to consolidate and they would buy all of these little
Speaker 2: labels and put them all together. Then Warner Brothers became
Speaker 2: a distributor themselves. Oh okay, Columbia Records became a distributor themselves.
Speaker 2: And so once they became distributors, they were able to
Speaker 2: take guys like Gambling Houff because we were independent. In fact,
Speaker 2: it was a good thing and a bad thing because
Speaker 2: they became your competition. Now you know, the major companies.
Speaker 2: But what we were able to do is to survive
Speaker 2: because we became a creative company and the marriage that
Speaker 2: we needed was and that we searched for was an
Speaker 2: administrator who could collect whatever royalties, whatever money that was
Speaker 2: due from all over the world because it's a worldwide industry,
Speaker 2: so you got to be collect money from from Philippines
Speaker 2: and Brazil, every place you can think of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how familiar are you with the Harvard Report, which
Speaker 1: I believe that the original Harvard Report was drafted in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, of.
Speaker 2: Which I guess it was stated that.
Speaker 1: For I don't know if the point was that for
Speaker 1: major labels to survive or for black music to survive,
Speaker 1: but basically the idea of a major label adopting that's
Speaker 1: what we were, a smaller black label.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what Billa International was.
Speaker 1: So was it someone who because by that point in
Speaker 1: seventy two, even though there was there was backstabbers and
Speaker 1: like things were starting to heat up. But who was
Speaker 1: the person that you know who was inspired to write
Speaker 1: the Harvard Report that really argued for you guys to
Speaker 1: have a deal with Clive Davis or he read this
Speaker 1: Harvard Report.
Speaker 4: And it's like, you know, you're right, I should do this.
Speaker 2: I think they sponsored it. Oh, a lot of the
Speaker 2: record companies sponsored it because we were there at CBS,
Speaker 2: like nineteen sixty nine seventy is when we was making
Speaker 2: our deal, and it was kind of like it shadowed
Speaker 2: what we were doing with CBS, because there was a
Speaker 2: time when we would do albums and we would have
Speaker 2: album covers and we would put the like an artist
Speaker 2: like Jerry Butler or somebody like that on the front cover,
Speaker 2: and their sales department was saying, now, we can't sell it.
Speaker 2: They can't sell it because it was a black face
Speaker 2: on it. Race Records, Race Records, this is where they
Speaker 2: were coming from. And so when we got into it,
Speaker 2: it was a little more music became a little more
Speaker 2: of a protests instrument, you know, and the industry just
Speaker 2: opened up. It opened up wide. Like in Texas, there
Speaker 2: was a rack job. At the rack job as a
Speaker 2: guy who's got a warehouse and he'll buy one hundred
Speaker 2: thousand albums and distributed them himself. But you'll see him
Speaker 2: this guy's name, his name was Lieberman, and he wouldn't
Speaker 2: really sell that many albums black albums in the beginning,
Speaker 2: but radio changed from AM to FM had reached more people.
Speaker 2: The whole marketplace just opened up. So a Lieberman, like
Speaker 2: an earth Wind and Fire album, these albums were not
Speaker 2: just hit R and B albums. These were hit pop,
Speaker 2: everything else you can think of. You can see it
Speaker 2: today in your commercials and everything. They're using that music
Speaker 2: because that music crosses all those generations and and and
Speaker 2: so I think I think that's what really had the
Speaker 2: industry rolling, is that the times were changing.
Speaker 1: Knowing that you guys initially went to I met Er
Speaker 1: Uh and Wexler at Atlantic first Uh for Philly International.
Speaker 2: Have you guys spoken to them since?
Speaker 1: Have they expressed any regret on not not taking the deal?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, all of them are gone. I'm and
Speaker 2: Jerry Wexler and Uh next you way, I think they
Speaker 2: chose to work with Stax rather.
Speaker 1: Than us, and that wasn't have been. That wasn't a
Speaker 1: bad move. I mean Sax, but Stax was not like
Speaker 1: Philly International. I worked with them a few times, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's definitely some sound.
Speaker 1: Archie Bell, Yeah, Wilson record, Don't let Degree Res Fool?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a that was a echo of a session.
Speaker 2: Didn't the Romeos put a record out on that co?
Speaker 2: There you go? You know what I mean? It's hard
Speaker 2: to find the right girl. And yeah, eight days a
Speaker 2: week a week, eight days a week. That was before
Speaker 2: the Beatles do, by the.
Speaker 1: Way, So it should be noted that what you really
Speaker 1: brought to the game of music is just a level
Speaker 1: of sheen and cleanness that was right for FM radio
Speaker 1: at the time. It wasn't It wasn't gut bucket back
Speaker 1: porch sounding, which I love that sound too, But this
Speaker 1: is definitely, you know, in the era of I know
Speaker 1: there's there's always a debate in the era, in the
Speaker 1: era of who holds the crown As far as I
Speaker 1: know that Isaac Hayes started working with orchestration and Barry
Speaker 1: White as well, But what was it about the sound
Speaker 1: of less orchestras that told you this is what we
Speaker 1: need in our music.
Speaker 2: During that time, Tommy Bell was he was evolving to
Speaker 2: a greater ranger, you know. He loved Burke Backack by
Speaker 2: the way, you know, and Bobby Martin. It just seemed
Speaker 2: like everybody wanted to all of the rangers. They wanted
Speaker 2: to work with violent orchestrations. Let me put it like that.
Speaker 2: It's so much different from what it is today today.
Speaker 2: I guess the fewer the instruments, the better it is. Well,
Speaker 2: you do get a better presence when you have fewer instruments,
Speaker 2: you know. But but that's I think that's just one
Speaker 2: of the simple way to say it is that that's
Speaker 2: what we heard in the music. You know.
Speaker 1: Oh, I was gonna say yeah, because when you guys
Speaker 1: are cutting a basic track, the strings aren't done yet.
Speaker 2: So how do you how hard is it for you
Speaker 2: to have faith that?
Speaker 1: All? Right? Great example, something as as bare as the Ojays.
Speaker 2: How can you Call Me Brother?
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is a very basic rhythm track but really
Speaker 1: depends on the horn orchestration of that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So is it that you have that much faith in
Speaker 1: Bobby or Norman Harris was also a good arranged for
Speaker 1: you guys as well, that you just like, I know,
Speaker 1: once I feed them this, then they're gonna really put
Speaker 1: the impact.
Speaker 2: You know. What we would do as we take a
Speaker 2: concept player, we get a small cossette of the session
Speaker 2: with the rhythm and the voices on it, and I'd
Speaker 2: sit down with a Huff, would sit down with Bobby
Speaker 2: Martin and we would hum parts to them. This is
Speaker 2: what we want the trumpets to play, this is what
Speaker 2: we want the trombones to play, this is what we
Speaker 2: want the strings to play. And then and believe it
Speaker 2: or not, I'm gonna tell you something. Even today, I
Speaker 2: can still remember all those arrangements in my head. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's like the brainwashed me almost. You know, you can
Speaker 2: still hear it all. And it was unbelievable. Plus two,
Speaker 2: if if you listen to the tracks, a lot of
Speaker 2: the stuff happens when you write the song. The arrangement
Speaker 2: is in the song, you know. And so where Huff
Speaker 2: used to play on every session, and between him and
Speaker 2: myself and Tom Bell, and like you said, Norman Harris,
Speaker 2: Norman Harris, he did an excellent job because he couldn't
Speaker 2: even arrange at first. You're talking about guys who couldn't
Speaker 2: even write music when we first started. Now these guys
Speaker 2: are between Rolling and Bobby Martin. They probably taught all
Speaker 2: of those guys how to write and arrange music. And
Speaker 2: also Vince Montana. Oh yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1: But these are sixty pieces, right, we read sixty pieces.
Speaker 2: We would have at least eight or nine rhythm people.
Speaker 1: We would have.
Speaker 2: I'd say at least ten between trumpets, horns and brass.
Speaker 2: But see we would doubles things so it would sound sneaky.
Speaker 2: I thought it was super time recorded No, we would
Speaker 2: double stuff and triple stuff at that at sometimes to
Speaker 2: really get that fullness. Because you know, you mentioned something
Speaker 2: a moment ago when the industry moved from mono to stereo,
Speaker 2: was a big difference. When it moved from AM to film,
Speaker 2: it was a big change because you got to look
Speaker 2: at the mixing process became totally different. Joe Jarja was
Speaker 2: an excellent engineer.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, talk about Joe Tarcia and
Speaker 1: how uh did you totally trust your mixing in his hands?
Speaker 1: Was it a thing where you guys had to micromanage
Speaker 1: and be over his shoulders or he knew exactly what
Speaker 1: to do.
Speaker 2: We had to be there withinning. We had to be
Speaker 2: there with him because you know what, sometimes we would
Speaker 2: mix him toil one two three o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2: Right the next day, I come in and Joe don
Speaker 2: did something to it during the night.
Speaker 1: M M.
Speaker 2: I said, Joe, why did you pull that piano down
Speaker 2: like that? He said, but you can hear that because
Speaker 2: you can hear stuff when it means something to you, right, Okay?
Speaker 2: And so Joe was he was excellent man.
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 2: He's a good he was a good team player. We
Speaker 2: had a great team. That's that's what happened with us.
Speaker 6: Speaking of the team, I was going to ask you
Speaker 6: because we were talking about this before we got we
Speaker 6: started recording about Larry Gold since we're in the house
Speaker 6: that he built. He's in the back somewhere. But I
Speaker 6: was trying to figure out, so back in these days,
Speaker 6: was he just like a session player, because now, of
Speaker 6: course he's a string ranger.
Speaker 2: Oh, he's great.
Speaker 1: But he was on all the sessions, him and and
Speaker 1: Don Rinaldo and uh, A lot of the guys from
Speaker 1: the old Uptown Theater were part.
Speaker 2: Of our band.
Speaker 4: So the Uptown Theater had a house orchestra, house band.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Sam Reid, really Sam Reid was was the
Speaker 2: house band and he had. Most of those guys have
Speaker 2: passed now, but but the Uptown was I used to
Speaker 2: go get chicken sandwiches for them guys over at Pearls,
Speaker 2: you know, and the Uptown Theater was that was a
Speaker 2: nest too for some great, great artists. You don't have
Speaker 2: places like the Uptown and places like that anymore to
Speaker 2: to develop new young people, you know, to give them
Speaker 2: a chance to uh some reasonable price to get in
Speaker 2: a place or whatever.
Speaker 6: You know, is that what you plan on doing a
Speaker 6: mirror when you fix up the Uptown, you're gonna bring
Speaker 6: it back.
Speaker 4: To that put me on the spot, sure, like yeah.
Speaker 6: I didn't even know if he knew that you was.
Speaker 2: I was really no, it's a dream of mind to
Speaker 2: bring it back. You know. We were talking to some
Speaker 2: people the other day, man Khalif, when they were talking
Speaker 2: about the Uptown you know, doing something then so we
Speaker 2: have to like it's it's too much history there, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: the Apollo.
Speaker 1: Is still thriving in DC theater. Howard Theaters is coming back.
Speaker 2: You know what you need to though with the Uptown
Speaker 2: money the same money you need. You need the same
Speaker 2: thing that Apollo as. You need somebody to underwrite it
Speaker 2: like a Coca Cola. I think it takes care of
Speaker 2: apollow and it's not a roo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need to know more billionaires. That's Ron Perelman.
Speaker 1: Is that the guy from Philly you're talking about? Ron
Speaker 1: Perlmans from Proman's a very weird billionaire.
Speaker 6: He owns like he was a Revlon wasn't he too?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he has a lot of companies. But things
Speaker 2: you don't think about.
Speaker 1: Like you know, like person the person that that makes
Speaker 1: cotton balls or or Q tips or.
Speaker 2: That's a good one.
Speaker 1: Rubber band companies like things that you don't think that
Speaker 1: people everything. A guy that owns duct tape, like.
Speaker 2: That's the type of business that ron.
Speaker 1: Right there. Yeah. So the the sound, I've always been
Speaker 1: curious about the sound of Philadelphia because along with that sophistication,
Speaker 1: you know, I would say that, you know, part of
Speaker 1: the part of the charm of Motown was like it
Speaker 1: was it was part church uh done by jazz musicians
Speaker 1: who thought they were above playing pop music or whatever.
Speaker 1: But and with stacks their sound was all the way
Speaker 1: you know, look, but yet just the sound, were you
Speaker 1: giving your input as far as like you wanted these
Speaker 1: drums to sound dead? Only bring this up because one
Speaker 1: I mean, like what my first five six records at Sigma,
Speaker 1: And one day Joe Tarcia is in the hallway and
Speaker 1: he knew how I was struggling with a drum part
Speaker 1: and I couldn't get it right, like I was wasting
Speaker 1: all this duct tape on my snare or whatever.
Speaker 4: And he says, say, hang on, I'll be right back,
Speaker 4: and he runs upstairs.
Speaker 1: He comes down with this blue blanket and he's like,
Speaker 1: this is the blue blanket that I would put it
Speaker 1: on top of, you know, on on top of Earl's
Speaker 1: drums and everything whatever, and he's like, this is the
Speaker 1: sound you're looking for, And he like went to the
Speaker 1: board and did us a solid in ten minutes and
Speaker 1: I got the sound I wanted.
Speaker 4: But it was so radical to see it at the time.
Speaker 1: Was it was it how did you guys construct this sound?
Speaker 1: Like it's it's such a like the drums are dead,
Speaker 1: but it's more live and plus with Earl Young being
Speaker 1: the proprietor of disco, like, how how did you guys
Speaker 1: discover Was it just accidentally discovering like, oh, people like
Speaker 1: dancing to this type of music?
Speaker 2: And you know, I used to always say, like the drums,
Speaker 2: there's two parts to the drums. It's the bass drum.
Speaker 2: That bass drum is very important, and also the snare
Speaker 2: and the symbols and and so forth, and the sock symbol.
Speaker 2: That sock symbol sound that we came up with that
Speaker 2: come from the House of prayer. That's like that's like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: like tambourines, you know what I mean. So it was
Speaker 2: a mix between all of that, you know, and we
Speaker 2: did it so much the musicians say, man, please, let's
Speaker 2: don't play that no more. You gotta play it because
Speaker 2: that's what that's keeping the food on. Yeah, keep it going.
Speaker 2: And then uh and then really the drums and the
Speaker 2: bass was like a pair, you know that basse the
Speaker 2: bass and the bass drum that they walk together.
Speaker 1: One one question I always wanted to know when you're
Speaker 1: doing basic cutting tracks for ballots. Let's say, okay, let's
Speaker 1: say Harold Melvin and Blue Notes be for Real?
Speaker 2: Yeah, where.
Speaker 1: For you hip hop fans?
Speaker 2: The song that ghost Face He uses to argue, oh wow,
Speaker 2: not Wildflower?
Speaker 4: No, no, well he uses be for Real with can
Speaker 4: I talk to you like the Teddy?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah. My whole point is that it is are
Speaker 1: you guys saying that? Okay? We know that we want
Speaker 1: Teddy to have two minutes and forty seven seconds of
Speaker 1: dialogue right before the first core starts, Like, how do
Speaker 1: you guys map out without without Teddy and the group
Speaker 1: being there to have a compelling acting performance, you know
Speaker 1: the part of the song when the song's over, and
Speaker 1: then you got to talk to.
Speaker 2: Your trash Oh baby, you know I need you? And
Speaker 2: this goes on.
Speaker 1: But the thing is is that the arrangement is so perfectly,
Speaker 1: it's so timed that I always wondered, do you map
Speaker 1: ahead of time, like, okay, well Teddy's going to talk
Speaker 1: for two minutes and forty seven seconds and then is
Speaker 1: he going on his own?
Speaker 2: Are you writing out his dialogue? When what happens with
Speaker 2: those kind of things is that we had a lot
Speaker 2: of rehearsals before these artists go into the studio. We
Speaker 2: would rehearse I mean with the Ojays off and I
Speaker 2: used to rehearse them days really days before we go
Speaker 2: into the studio. You know, we cut the tracks and
Speaker 2: then we rehearse them again with the track because it'd
Speaker 2: be different. It's one thing rehears them on the piano,
Speaker 2: you know, with me, and but then when you cut
Speaker 2: the track, it's totally different. You got different figures and everything.
Speaker 2: But like I think, I think the rehearsals were the
Speaker 2: key to everything that we did.
Speaker 1: You know, So for like Sunshine OJ's which is ten minutes,
Speaker 1: you're saying that even in rehearsal, Eddie LeVert is.
Speaker 2: Going balls to the wall that hard with his at libs. No,
Speaker 2: there's a certain part of it that the artist basically
Speaker 2: It's like Bunnie Sigler wrote Sunshine Okay on and he
Speaker 2: helped the produce it. He and what's the other guy
Speaker 2: that was with him, Phil Hurt I think Phil's name was.
Speaker 2: And so they did rehearse the ojys because the OJ's
Speaker 2: used to come in Philadelphia to record, and they would
Speaker 2: stay here for a month, okay, for a whole month.
Speaker 2: The first week we would do nothing but send them
Speaker 2: around to each little room. We had rooms, and Fat
Speaker 2: and White Ad had a room. Bunnie Sliger, Phil, I
Speaker 2: mean Sherman Marshall who wrote for Think Came Youth with
Speaker 2: Dion Warick and all that, right, and so everybody had
Speaker 2: their own rooms. So Huff and I would have about
Speaker 2: eighty nine songs for him, Bunny Siegler would have five
Speaker 2: or six songs for him, and then they we put
Speaker 2: them all on the cassette tape and then we listened
Speaker 2: to him and figure out which ones we were going
Speaker 2: to cut. That would be the second phase, and once
Speaker 2: we start cutting the tracks, it could be fifteen sixteen
Speaker 2: tracks that we cut all total. And the ojs.
Speaker 1: Say, for example, like a song like I Love music right,
Speaker 1: it took all night to get those background parts together,
Speaker 1: no prosals all night.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was a whole different thing. And the editing
Speaker 2: aspect of all this stuff here was just crazy because
Speaker 2: you got cutting tape all over the floor, you know.
Speaker 2: So so huff and he played the keyboards, and the
Speaker 2: keyboards was essential to finding out how many bars.
Speaker 1: I mean we talk about bar. We weren't really counting.
Speaker 2: Bars and stuff like that, you know, and and rehearsing
Speaker 2: like tells me now he said, Man, my back hurts.
Speaker 2: I said, I guess so E've been rocking on that
Speaker 2: piano years. No, we had we had a great team
Speaker 2: of people working together. And I think that you know,
Speaker 2: when you got people like like Dexter when you played me,
Speaker 2: I mean, Dexter is to me, I thought he was
Speaker 2: like Quincy Jones, to be honest with you, you know, and
Speaker 2: I used to always tell him, I said, you know,
Speaker 2: you should go out and get with Quincy Jones because
Speaker 2: this guy had that kind of talent in my view,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 6: So in twenty nineteen, the kids no pop Linzel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is wonderful, Yes, it is. He used to be.
Speaker 2: He used to be walking around the floor all the time,
Speaker 2: which is great.
Speaker 5: You know, between you and Huff you mentioned that he
Speaker 5: would be uh, you know on the piano. Were you
Speaker 5: more of like the lyric writer or did you lyrics
Speaker 5: write music as well?
Speaker 2: No, I really didn't. Look I basically was lyrics, you know,
Speaker 2: and concepts and and we write lyrics sometimes too. And
Speaker 2: I played like me and Missus Jones and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: I got I got about I got about six chords,
Speaker 2: a few chords on the guitar.
Speaker 1: And then so they come with the music verson and
Speaker 1: bring it to you or you're there at the same time.
Speaker 2: And no, when you when you say, say, for example
Speaker 2: and Fat and White there, who were how did they
Speaker 2: work together? They were? They were just like me and Huff.
Speaker 2: They were excellent.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: They had Victor Carlstaffen that worked with them. He was
Speaker 2: a keyboard player and so and then you had Tom
Speaker 2: Bell and Linda Creed. Linda Creed was an unbelievable lyricist,
Speaker 2: you know, to be bet you by golly while all
Speaker 2: that stuff and uh, people make the world go around,
Speaker 2: how were you Okay?
Speaker 1: So of course a majority of the stuff is done
Speaker 1: under the Philly International umbrella, right, but for some of
Speaker 1: those projects that wanted that Philly sound Eddie Kendricks, he's
Speaker 1: a friend or or then Kim you down work in
Speaker 1: the Spinners or even the Spinners themselves, Like how were
Speaker 1: you able to where they contractually bound to you guys
Speaker 1: first and you gained permission to Okay.
Speaker 2: You know what happened with that. Just take the Spinners
Speaker 2: for example, and tom Bell. Tom Bell was like an
Speaker 2: independent producer. They had an independent production because there were
Speaker 2: people like the Spinners, dayn Warick, Johnny Mathis.
Speaker 1: And all these people. The music was you, I mean,
Speaker 1: was it associated with you or was it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were all working together because where we all
Speaker 2: linked up at wasn't publishing see with the six three,
Speaker 2: mighty three, mighty three twenty three, Yeah we're publishing. And
Speaker 2: also too with with the cross pollination of of mcfatt
Speaker 2: and white Hair working with Tommy and it was different,
Speaker 2: different people all working together. But when Tom Bell brings
Speaker 2: in a Johnny Mathis to take because most of the
Speaker 2: songs he did with Johnny Mathis have been recorded before.
Speaker 1: That we cut before. So it was a new expansion
Speaker 1: for us.
Speaker 2: And and that's pretty because Huff and I did we
Speaker 2: didn't really do a lot of outside production things with
Speaker 2: people on different labels. Earlier in the game, we did,
Speaker 2: you know, like Archie Bell and Wilson Piccott what you mentioned,
Speaker 2: which was fun. But after we got to a certain point,
Speaker 2: our whole thing was to build Philly International, because what
Speaker 2: happened with that would be is more of a First
Speaker 2: of all, we had a strong association with CBS, and
Speaker 2: we were strong as anybody with the Internet national side
Speaker 2: of the industry. And then I would think that that
Speaker 2: we had the same the same music. We had a
Speaker 2: great team in Philly and a great team in New York.
Speaker 2: Ronald Luxemburg and Clive Davis and all these people, you know,
Speaker 2: we had. We had a good run. For the life
Speaker 2: of me. Can you please answer this question? Go ahead?
Speaker 5: Why why why did you guys not call T S
Speaker 5: O P.
Speaker 2: Soul train?
Speaker 4: Now you could have just called the song soul trained.
Speaker 2: Now let me tell you what happened. What happened was John, Yeah, doctor,
Speaker 2: you've seen that already. I haven't seen it, but I
Speaker 2: think I know where you're going with the store doctor
Speaker 2: is I told Don, I said, Don, I said, we're
Speaker 2: gonna call this soul trained thing. He said, Nah, I
Speaker 2: want to keep soul trained. Sad separate what I said.
Speaker 2: I said, you can't do that, you know, no, we
Speaker 2: wanted to call it Soul Trained, but you just said right.
Speaker 2: So then what happened when it became such a monster
Speaker 2: a monster, monster monster. It was number one all.
Speaker 1: Over the world.
Speaker 2: It was number one everywhere. And the funny part about
Speaker 2: it is we called it the soul We called it
Speaker 2: the Sound of Philadelphia, and then parenthesis, it was the
Speaker 2: Soul Trained theme. But he didn't want it to be
Speaker 2: the Soul Trained.
Speaker 1: Or whatever, you know, just in case he didn't.
Speaker 2: But you know, he actually really said that, and they
Speaker 2: did an interview with him somewhere and he said that
Speaker 2: was the dumbest movie ever made. But he was good people. Man,
Speaker 2: We could you talk about a vehicle for our music?
Speaker 2: And I used to talk to him every week. Every
Speaker 2: week he said, Okay, we're gonna send out this week,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So we would always have
Speaker 2: a place on this show, and that was pretty much
Speaker 2: the it's show for for that particular time. I mean,
Speaker 2: Soul Train was was unbelievable.
Speaker 6: And weren't we just watching some footage where he was
Speaker 6: actually an advocate for Black Music Month as well. So
Speaker 6: y'all were all in.
Speaker 1: Yah, yeah, yeah, we were. We were real good friends.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Black Music Month. That was Deana, that was yeah.
Speaker 6: She was showing us the footage and he was testifying
Speaker 6: the Congress on his way somewhere Black Music Month.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna I always present this in the worst
Speaker 1: possible scenario. Go ahead.
Speaker 4: So I'm not going to do gun to your head
Speaker 4: as I normally do.
Speaker 1: What is that? No?
Speaker 4: No, I always give you the ultimatum, go ahead.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So between.
Speaker 1: Eddie Livert, I'm trying I'm trying to I'm trying to
Speaker 1: figure out your your top.
Speaker 4: Five starting squad.
Speaker 1: Good now in your powerhouse lead singing voice with Eddie
Speaker 1: Livert and Teddy Pendergrad.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Was Kenny Ebol even in the picture. Was he after
Speaker 1: a the Ebo joined the Blue Notes? Did he join
Speaker 1: the Blue Notes after reaching for the was? Okay?
Speaker 2: So you don't count, all right?
Speaker 1: So who is your Who gets the advantage? Eddie Livert,
Speaker 1: Teddy Pendergrass in your powerhouse lead singing voice?
Speaker 2: This is an easy one for me, really seriously, Yeah, alright,
Speaker 2: you go first.
Speaker 3: I say it's Eddie because Teddy is not available right now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I believe let's go let's go to history.
Speaker 5: If we're talking history, I still give it to That
Speaker 5: would be my pa.
Speaker 3: Because I mean, that's Eddie LeVert bro I don't know.
Speaker 3: I know Teddy, I've heard, I've heard Teddy Pendergrass singing.
Speaker 3: Teddy is a monster. But Eddie, oh my god, really
Speaker 3: he just to me it was more so.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I thought that Eddie was more of a He could
Speaker 2: just emote.
Speaker 5: A song better and like he I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 5: which is saying a lot compared to Teddy.
Speaker 2: But yeah, mother will go to Eddie too. All right,
Speaker 2: let me tell you what I.
Speaker 1: Like all of them. But I'll tell you this, y'all
Speaker 1: sleeping one guy. Wait, we're missing somebody you know. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you it's Walter. But he's my my Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's my assist. See is my best second. Lot of
Speaker 1: people sleep.
Speaker 2: Walk because see, Eddie is more of a performing artist.
Speaker 2: When you think of Eddie, you think of a guy
Speaker 2: that's hollering and screaming and on the floor singer.
Speaker 1: But Walter.
Speaker 2: I remember when I used to give Walter the lyrics.
Speaker 2: He was excellent, man, he was exactly. He would just
Speaker 2: the way I heard him singing it. He would sing it.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So but I know what you trying to get after
Speaker 2: here you're talking about who favorites, but well who is
Speaker 2: I still say Walter wins.
Speaker 5: So when you would do when you would write the songs,
Speaker 5: who would sing the demo or the reference tracks for
Speaker 5: the men?
Speaker 2: He was saying, really, yeah, So.
Speaker 1: Was there any time y'all was like, you know what?
Speaker 2: I might keep this? Did y'all keep for yourself?
Speaker 1: I used to tell her that, me and him say
Speaker 1: that now, I said, he, I said, we should have
Speaker 1: kept that man, Missus Jones, we're being Vegas and me
Speaker 1: and Missus Jones.
Speaker 5: I wanted like, can we just the genius of that
Speaker 5: song because for years I didn't know it was about
Speaker 5: an affair, an affair we love affair? Yeah, we never
Speaker 5: we never thought that. But that's just all I knew
Speaker 5: was that him and Missus Jones had something going on
Speaker 5: going on.
Speaker 6: They don't know it was wrong. So the wrong didn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah it didn't.
Speaker 2: It was, but it was much too strong.
Speaker 1: So a lot of these songs from personal experience or
Speaker 1: is it just hey, this is what's going on in
Speaker 1: life and let me you know, I would think like, okay, people,
Speaker 1: someone needs someone out there needs a song about this
Speaker 1: specific situation, and I'm I'm the funnel that's going to
Speaker 1: to bring it to life, Like how does this song
Speaker 1: like that come to be?
Speaker 2: And someone in your life is not looking at you
Speaker 2: side right right? You mean me?
Speaker 6: And Dean wasn't here before you. So there was a
Speaker 6: couple of songs. She liked to claim, have you.
Speaker 1: Ever written a song that someone's like that's about in
Speaker 1: a minute that sounds like us?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you know what happened to me as a song,
Speaker 2: right and half we before we would write songs and
Speaker 2: we were sitting in the room just like this here
Speaker 2: like we're doing it and talk and just talk and
Speaker 2: laugh and talk about the fantasy. The fantasy was a
Speaker 2: bar that he was right across the street from us,
Speaker 2: and everybody used to be here, the fantasy, you know,
Speaker 2: mister Loretta, and we used to go there to eat.
Speaker 2: It was Jordan Spruce, unbelievable. I went there once and
Speaker 2: more like, oh it was great. But anyway, so what
Speaker 2: we would do is going we could go into fantasy, right,
Speaker 2: and all you gotta do is sit there and you
Speaker 2: see all these people and and you make up stuff,
Speaker 2: you make up stories, make up just look at that
Speaker 2: guy over there. Man, he's with that young girl. Man
Speaker 2: that's not his wife or whatever, you know what I mean. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And then we go back and sit at.
Speaker 1: The piano and uh and come up with stories.
Speaker 5: About how often did I mean, because at this time,
Speaker 5: I mean, you got Eddie, you got Teddy. You know,
Speaker 5: you have all these great singers, lou Rose I imagine,
Speaker 5: had several unbelievable how.
Speaker 2: Much of their lives.
Speaker 5: Would you look at and say, like, damn, Teddy's going
Speaker 5: through this, and then take it and write about it.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, it was so much to
Speaker 2: write about, so much to write about, and we were
Speaker 2: having so much fun. And then, you know, you put
Speaker 2: a formula together. Our formula was because at that time,
Speaker 2: albums was the whole thing. Albums were selling. And so
Speaker 2: you take an artist like Teddy Pendergrads who was so
Speaker 2: versatile number one and as a matter of fact, I
Speaker 2: heard one of his songs today, my latest greatest, and
Speaker 2: and I was listening to us, said, wow, what a record,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, just all of the parts
Speaker 2: of it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: So how many hours would it take for you to
Speaker 1: know that you have a great Teddy performance? Like and
Speaker 1: do you is there a code word? Like all right,
Speaker 1: take them take it home. You don't what to do
Speaker 1: because this guy.
Speaker 2: Teddy Penogras, we will rehearse him too. Wow, you weren't
Speaker 2: scared to waste the performance? No, well, rehearse him because See,
Speaker 2: the theory we had was when you're recording, we don't
Speaker 2: want you standing in there reading on the paper. We
Speaker 2: wanted to to come from inside. You gotta come from here,
Speaker 2: forget that. You gotta know these songs, you see, because
Speaker 2: it's better. That makes sense, But it's a better performance.
Speaker 2: And so Teddy Penogras was the worst guy, you know,
Speaker 2: because he'd always lose the papers, you know, But.
Speaker 1: You had to do it. You gotta learn it, Teddy.
Speaker 2: You got to learn these lyrics and you gotta go
Speaker 2: in there and you gotta sing them.
Speaker 1: Well. Okay, So speaking of the latest greatest, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to figure it is that the song that Teddy has
Speaker 1: went the most.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 1: Man, When how do you pull.
Speaker 2: That out of I didn't do that. He did that hisself,
Speaker 2: And there was no I mean I wanted more. That
Speaker 2: was that was unusual for him to even do that,
Speaker 2: but that song made him do that really, you know.
Speaker 2: And then the background was so sweet with Cecil Womack Ahow,
Speaker 2: Leon Huff and myself. It was the three of us
Speaker 2: singing on that. It was Cecil Walmac I was saying,
Speaker 2: So we were still a Romeos. We're still background and
Speaker 2: sing and everything. So it was fun, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean to be in the studio and and sing background.
Speaker 2: We did background, uh for stylistics. We was on all
Speaker 2: of that stuff, and we was on if you don't
Speaker 2: know me by now? We sang the background on that.
Speaker 2: Really okay? You know what I always wanted.
Speaker 1: To know, could you name three acts that were close
Speaker 1: but no cigar acts that could have been on Philly
Speaker 1: International or even produced by you, Like, did you guys
Speaker 1: have a chance to Always wanted to know if you
Speaker 1: guys ever had a chance to at least talk with
Speaker 1: the Dells. I know that Charles Stephanie was with him
Speaker 1: for a long time. Then when he passed away, they
Speaker 1: were without a producer and.
Speaker 2: They did Yeah, we did an album with him.
Speaker 1: When, uh, what year was that the Dells came I
Speaker 1: Salute you nineteen nine.
Speaker 2: I salute you. Yeah, what was it was Marvin Junior
Speaker 2: still in He's still in there, and you know what,
Speaker 2: we got stuff in on on uh in the can
Speaker 2: on them and because they did a version of Ave Maria,
Speaker 2: say what I'm telling no, We was just like in
Speaker 2: the studio and we were just all talking and everything,
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden they started singing of
Speaker 2: the Maria and we had to we had to mic
Speaker 2: someone and everything, and man, I'll tell you it was beautiful.
Speaker 2: The Dell's doing Dells doing they could do that.
Speaker 1: There's they have a really weird version of You Are
Speaker 1: My Sunshine, which I never They did it a minor, right,
Speaker 1: Charles Stephanie and the Dells did like a minor version.
Speaker 1: It's like the darkest version, the most soulful, darkest version
Speaker 1: of You Are My Sunshine.
Speaker 2: He was talented, definitely excellent.
Speaker 4: So but what three acts did you have that you
Speaker 4: were close?
Speaker 1: But no Cigars like came to Philly and yeah, let's
Speaker 1: work together, and then it just didn't happen.
Speaker 2: Well, Earth went Fire is one. What this was years
Speaker 2: and years like when we were first getting started, you know,
Speaker 2: and we had a we had a deal with chest
Speaker 2: Checker and we had a management company called Huga h
Speaker 2: u g a huffing gamble. It's called Hugo Hugo Management.
Speaker 2: And Earth went and fire. This is when they had
Speaker 2: the girl with them. I forget Justic cold Cleve and
Speaker 2: they came up and we were we were trying to
Speaker 2: get ourselves together, be honest with you, and they were
Speaker 2: trying to get theirselves together. But then they became monsters
Speaker 2: and we were at the same label they was with
Speaker 2: Columbia too, CBS. Well that's one, okay, one act like that.
Speaker 2: And I always wanted to cut the temptations, always tried
Speaker 2: to and they slipped right through my fingers temptations.
Speaker 4: And was this doing the period that they went to
Speaker 4: Atlantic instead?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, we were bringing we we
Speaker 2: had David Ruff and Eddie Kin. We had them all
Speaker 2: back together again. We did and man just didn't work out.
Speaker 2: It didn't work out. And oldest be and oldest always
Speaker 2: remained good friends.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: And then.
Speaker 6: Somebody told me to mention Bob Marley. It was almost
Speaker 6: Bob Marley.
Speaker 2: Yeah wait what yeah, we.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob Marley Records.
Speaker 2: Man, that would have been great. Bob was he was
Speaker 2: for destiny and purpose, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 2: he liked what we were doing with music and the
Speaker 2: messages that were because our whole thing was the message
Speaker 2: in the music.
Speaker 6: You know this post clean up the Ghetto, right, Yeah,
Speaker 6: all of.
Speaker 2: This was And Bob Marley he was like when I
Speaker 2: met with him, he said, man, we can bring people
Speaker 2: together from all over the world. I said, well, let's
Speaker 2: do it. Let's get it. And so his manager and
Speaker 2: lawyer at the time, I think they were trying to
Speaker 2: get a big money deal, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And we didn't have a whole lot of money.
Speaker 1: We had we.
Speaker 2: Had a lot of talent on the preside. Yeah, Bob
Speaker 2: would have been Then Bob got sick, he got sick.
Speaker 2: This was gotta be I don't know. I guess around
Speaker 2: seventy nine eighty Philly.
Speaker 1: No, he did city Lights in eighty one, eighty one
Speaker 1: city Lights appearance.
Speaker 2: It was at his last one. Yeah, it was like
Speaker 2: this around that time where I met with him, and
Speaker 2: that could have been something. Oh, it would have been great.
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, when we had the Black
Speaker 2: Music Association, we had Bob Marley and Stevie Wonder right
Speaker 2: here in Philadelphia. That was then Bob Marley and Stevie Wonder
Speaker 2: was the entertainment for the Black Music Associations. Wow, unbelievable.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, it's it's okay. So for some reason,
Speaker 1: are you guys familiar with.
Speaker 2: The seven? How many thousands of reels came from Sigma?
Speaker 7: You said seven?
Speaker 2: Yeah, like over seven? Okay.
Speaker 1: So when Sigma imploded a lot of these reels were
Speaker 1: just about to go in the trash like it was
Speaker 1: going to go to storage, and that didn't happen. So
Speaker 1: basically Drexel University wound up with thousands and thousands and
Speaker 1: thousands of reels. So there is a week that Stevie
Speaker 1: Wonders spent in Philadelphia.
Speaker 4: In which.
Speaker 1: I don't know the particular date on the call sheet,
Speaker 1: but he's at Sigma demoing what will Become I Love
Speaker 1: You Too Much?
Speaker 2: That was in square circles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the real day.
Speaker 2: Was it seventy nine to eighty or something?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's there is about there's about two weeks
Speaker 1: worth of Philadelphia Sigma reels of Stevie Wonder recutting a
Speaker 1: Seeds of Star and like five or six other songs.
Speaker 1: But one song is actually with al Green him giving
Speaker 1: it to al Green. It's it's like a demo, but
Speaker 1: it's good enough for me to steal and deja hey listen,
Speaker 1: he used to be here all the time, Stevie. Really yeah.
Speaker 1: He would fall asleep on the couch.
Speaker 2: He would come to the studio, I mean, unannounced everything.
Speaker 2: Just it sounds like Stevie.
Speaker 1: It was great to show up, like.
Speaker 2: Stevie wonder not the first time.
Speaker 3: Can we rewind just a little bit because we kind
Speaker 3: of see yeah, yeah, we skipped big. We skipped a
Speaker 3: couple of things, two of my favorite songs that have
Speaker 3: the Gamble and Tough name on them.
Speaker 2: Right, he was completely glossed over.
Speaker 1: We didn't we just I'm trying to turn the car
Speaker 1: back to mind. I was about to go back to
Speaker 1: Richard Barrett so we can come o. I was going
Speaker 1: back to the Soul Survivors and Expressway to Your Heart,
Speaker 1: which that's right.
Speaker 3: I remember I was probably like six or seven years
Speaker 3: old in my bedroom. Somehow that record had gotten into
Speaker 3: my room and it stayed on my little Fisher Price
Speaker 3: turntable for like three weeks. Like I played that record
Speaker 3: over and yeah, yeah, yeah, so but it was it
Speaker 3: was on Gamble Records, which predated Philadelphia International. So can
Speaker 3: you talk about that early label experience and what that
Speaker 3: was like and the transition into Philly International.
Speaker 2: Wow, Gamble Records was my partner. There was Benny Crash
Speaker 2: remember Crash Brother's clothing store. Yes, that was my partner.
Speaker 2: What Benny kras that loud guy Crash Brothers. Isn't it
Speaker 2: if you didn't buy your clothes Crash Brothers, you've been robbed?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Wow, he's no New York he was.
Speaker 1: Yes, he probably made too much. It's kind of like
Speaker 1: the he was a crazy, crazy crazy Okay, but Crash Brothers,
Speaker 1: Grass Brothers like, he was your partner, my partner.
Speaker 2: Benny said, if you got to go, go in the
Speaker 2: Crass Brother's suit, he was in a casket. Benny was great.
Speaker 2: He taught me a lot man, he really did. And
Speaker 2: he loved music. He liked to sing himself. So one
Speaker 2: day I was in there, all of us used to
Speaker 2: buy clothes, stage and stuff like that, and he said,
Speaker 2: you know, can even want to make a record. He said,
Speaker 2: could you and your band work with me? I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll work with you. I said, well, I said, I
Speaker 2: got some groups that I'm working with I said, I
Speaker 2: need you to help.
Speaker 1: Me out with them.
Speaker 2: So we made a deal. He became my partner and
Speaker 2: the groups he had his songs was called his group
Speaker 2: was called the Knights, and Arthur was the name of
Speaker 2: his group. And we cut that. It was good, and
Speaker 2: he had one song that Curtis Mayfield took what's called
Speaker 2: man old Man, Man, old Man. Have you been in
Speaker 2: the Spain? The young Jeezy sample?
Speaker 1: There you go, he wrote, man o Man, Man, old Man.
Speaker 2: He wrote it unbelievable. I gotta bring it.
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to do it, but I gotta read it.
Speaker 1: What is that crash that when someone drops a bomb?
Speaker 1: And I just got it?
Speaker 4: A crash brothers man, He wrote, man o.
Speaker 2: Man, Benny krash that's right.
Speaker 1: There's a key vital scene in Dead President's movie when
Speaker 1: that comes on, of which.
Speaker 2: Does something I'm never ever going I got to tell
Speaker 2: his daughter and that's Benny krash Man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh man, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Filly in the National was in coming, you know,
Speaker 2: So me and how we were working with the intruders.
Speaker 1: Cowboys and girls, Boys and girls.
Speaker 2: I was going to bring up cowboys to girls. Always
Speaker 2: love my Mama.
Speaker 1: That was later much later. That was later, and let
Speaker 1: me think, Uh, we had a lot of little groups
Speaker 1: music Makers music Makers United.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was another one that stayed in my room
Speaker 2: quite a bit too. We had the music Makers we
Speaker 2: also did. We did something else with them that I
Speaker 2: really like. It was instrumental. I think it was I'm
Speaker 2: Gonna make you Love Me that we did on them.
Speaker 2: But uh, I think that from that experience we had.
Speaker 2: We had some girls from Camden called the Swans, the
Speaker 2: the Baby Dolls and Sammy Seven's everybody do the Crossfire.
Speaker 2: I mean, we we we were doing all kinds of stuff. Man,
Speaker 2: you're making me really think. My brain is going deep
Speaker 2: in my head thinking of those days, you know, because
Speaker 2: you had, like he was saying a moment ago, he
Speaker 2: had so many record companies in Philly and it was
Speaker 2: hard for me enough to get in there, you know what.
Speaker 1: I mean, Richard Barrett, I know who started the Three degrees?
Speaker 1: How did were you guys evolved at all involved it?
Speaker 1: Back when they were on I forget what label they
Speaker 1: were on before they came to Philly International.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what label they were on back then.
Speaker 2: Let me think Swan Records. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Huff
Speaker 2: was working with him then, Okay, Huff was working and
Speaker 2: I never worked with him until they came to Philly International.
Speaker 2: I love working with them because they were tremendous harmony
Speaker 2: they harmony was was really tight and Richard Richard was
Speaker 2: extremely talented. What was his role in the group? Was
Speaker 2: he their manager? Their manager and their I mean their conductor.
Speaker 2: I mean he was. He's the one that made him,
Speaker 2: to be honest with you. They taught them everything you know,
Speaker 2: and they were very disciplined. In Three Degrees that that
Speaker 2: that stage performers wasn't wasn't it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Who's whose idea was it? I guess it's no coincidence
Speaker 1: of the of all the live records cut in London.
Speaker 1: I guess when Philly International went on tour, because I
Speaker 1: know the OJ's cut their album True and and and
Speaker 1: Billy Paul in the Three Degrees. So was it just
Speaker 1: like were they all at this one venue?
Speaker 2: This one all that?
Speaker 4: I never knew if it was like separate times.
Speaker 2: No, it made sense, got everything at one time and
Speaker 2: it was great. Okay, Billy Pool. I guess we should
Speaker 2: also mentioned the Jackson I mean, that's accident Yeah.
Speaker 5: I wanted to ask you just about your work with
Speaker 5: them because I read the interview once. I think it
Speaker 5: was you that recognized that they were ready to produce themselves,
Speaker 5: and I just wanted to know what was it that
Speaker 5: you were One what were those sessions like just working
Speaker 5: with them?
Speaker 1: And two?
Speaker 5: Uh, how can you tell as a producer when someone
Speaker 5: is ready to produce themselves?
Speaker 2: Well, you can just feel it. You can feel like
Speaker 2: they got a pretty good sense of who they are.
Speaker 2: You know that Michael Jackson working with them. I used
Speaker 2: to ask him all the time. I said, you hear yourself.
Speaker 2: So he used to go to the piano. He played
Speaker 2: the piano a little bit and he said, well let
Speaker 2: me try. Let me try something. When we went to
Speaker 2: to overdub his voice, and that was the first time
Speaker 2: that I saw an artist double live voice, triple live voice.
Speaker 2: He had all kinds of little tricks and stuff that
Speaker 2: he was doing to go yeah. I used to think
Speaker 2: that was one take.
Speaker 1: Sing that yeah.
Speaker 2: So he was he was showing me. I said, go ahead,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, that's true. I think him
Speaker 2: and Tito, be honest with you. Tito was the musician,
Speaker 2: and so I think him and Tito was really really talented,
Speaker 2: and the other guys like Jackie and and Marlon, and
Speaker 2: you know, what I tried to do was bring it
Speaker 2: out of them because they had been beat down so much.
Speaker 2: With Michael just became just such a giant, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean that they were scared to say anything.
Speaker 2: Come on, Marlin was a tremendous dancer, still unbelievable. In fact,
Speaker 2: I talked to him the other day, and they've been
Speaker 2: through a lot. They've been through a lot, that group.
Speaker 1: And I'll say that my it's it's weird because, uh,
Speaker 1: Sony just re released the Jackson's Ain't Going Places, uh
Speaker 1: like a month ago, Like, oh really going place? Is
Speaker 1: still a personal favorite of mine, I don't. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just have sentimental attached into it because I was
Speaker 1: seven at the time and I used to see them.
Speaker 1: I never knew that Philly International was next to my school.
Speaker 1: I went to perform an art school on Broad Street.
Speaker 1: Broad Street three thirteen. You guys were three or nine,
Speaker 1: three o nine, and never knew that how long were
Speaker 1: you guys at three or nine?
Speaker 2: Oh my god? We went to three o nine about
Speaker 2: what was it about? Nineteen seventy nineteen sixty nine seventy.
Speaker 2: Y'all were always there. We were across the street at
Speaker 2: the Shooters Super on the sixth floor.
Speaker 6: Okay, can you tell the story how you had to
Speaker 6: have somebody else come in and look at the building?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: What happened, Well, they wouldn't sell the building to us
Speaker 2: at first, of course. So what we did is we
Speaker 2: got a lawyer name was Eric Cromfell, got him to
Speaker 2: go to the bank and everything to make the settlement
Speaker 2: and everything. And then when it got down to the
Speaker 2: point where they needed us a sign, we've come over
Speaker 2: and signed the papers. Because see they were yeah, because
Speaker 2: that's exactly what it was too. They they looked at
Speaker 2: what's hard even today, it's hard for for African American
Speaker 2: people to get building a building credit, you know. But
Speaker 2: it was it was good move. It was a good Alan.
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, Alan Klein was the owner
Speaker 2: of the building. Yeah, Alan, Alan Klin, the guy who
Speaker 2: had the Beatles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, app co And even with your stature at that time,
Speaker 1: they just felt like nope.
Speaker 2: So I'm telling you, I mean what they did to
Speaker 2: us was, uh, you got to get finance and we
Speaker 2: couldn't pay for the building. I wish, I wish we
Speaker 2: could have, but you have to get mortgages. Because the
Speaker 2: thing of it is, too is that that building. Uh,
Speaker 2: the tragedy of it is when we speak of that
Speaker 2: building is that there was an arson. The guy who
Speaker 2: who who put that place on fire? That was that
Speaker 2: was that was no way for that building to go.
Speaker 2: That was terrible, you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, rest in peace? Three on nine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a lot there, I'll tell you a
Speaker 2: whole lot.
Speaker 6: Now is it a parking lot?
Speaker 1: But no, Well it's about to be a hotel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be. It's gonna be a condominiums in
Speaker 2: uh in a hotel and no hotel all this time though.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 6: Did you put the Jacksons through the same rehearsal situation
Speaker 6: that you put through the other.
Speaker 2: Artists in exactly everybody?
Speaker 1: Everybody?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, and they were great? I mean and uh
Speaker 2: and they father man, this guy was. He was a
Speaker 2: wonderful dude. Man.
Speaker 6: He that a lot.
Speaker 2: Ye, No, he was. He's great.
Speaker 3: Here's a random question about the Jackson's. Did you miss
Speaker 3: Jermaine's presence? It would have been good if he was there.
Speaker 3: Let me put it like that.
Speaker 2: He also came to Philly. There's four songs.
Speaker 1: Songs. He also cuts some tracks at Sigma in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy six. I don't know if it's with Tom Bell,
Speaker 1: but there was a point where Jermaine Jackson two, Yes,
Speaker 1: it's uh, what's good for the cancer? Norman Harris, Norman Harris.
Speaker 2: It sounds like that, sounds just like it. So just
Speaker 2: help me understand.
Speaker 1: So if someone comes into Sigma and leaves with a
Speaker 1: product that still has the gamble and huff DNA, like,
Speaker 1: you guys, don't wipe the board. You guys don't like
Speaker 1: you can't use our microphones or because even for that song,
Speaker 1: which technically has nothing to do with gambled and.
Speaker 2: Huff, you can hear it. Yeah, so it's like, how
Speaker 2: did you take the secret sauce?
Speaker 1: But you know, but then like David Bowie came to Philly,
Speaker 1: his records sound like, so, how do you do you
Speaker 1: feel some sort of did you ever feel sort of
Speaker 1: way when an artist comes to Sigma and still uses
Speaker 1: your board, you're mixing your your session, the rhythm section.
Speaker 1: Yes see that's what made it.
Speaker 2: But you know what I used to think, you know,
Speaker 2: it's enough for everybody, You know what I mean, and
Speaker 2: you know, that was a good hustle they had, you know,
Speaker 2: Joe good hustle. It was. It was a good hustle
Speaker 2: because everybody wanted that sound. BB King was there and
Speaker 2: like David Bowie was there, and who else, Elton John
Speaker 2: came over. But everybody was grabbing, trying to grab their
Speaker 2: little piece or whatever.
Speaker 1: But I never felt without coming to the water well
Speaker 1: because see the bottom line of it was it was
Speaker 1: this is that it's not to try to make that
Speaker 1: little bit of money from a session, is to make
Speaker 1: a classic product, because then you really got something. And
Speaker 1: I used to tell them, I said, you know what
Speaker 1: I said, you can't get around it. You can't get
Speaker 1: around hard work, and you can't get around having a
Speaker 1: great songs. And if you got if you just going
Speaker 1: in there and you're just gonna throw some people together
Speaker 1: and you're gonna do a record that it almost sounds
Speaker 1: like what they've come in there for, you wasting the
Speaker 1: whole thing. So because even and everybody was trying to
Speaker 1: get their little piece. Everybody, everybody, if bands was itching
Speaker 1: and they wanted to get money.
Speaker 2: They wanted to get money. Because I even told Tommy Bell,
Speaker 2: even with Elton John. It would have been great if
Speaker 2: we could have all worked on Elton John together. You know,
Speaker 2: but you know who knows who knows what would have happened?
Speaker 1: You know who?
Speaker 6: I'm just gonna ask to any of those artists have
Speaker 6: a circle back to you with no, not really, I mean,
Speaker 6: even with conversation about it.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even I wouldn't do nothing with him. I
Speaker 2: mean we had our hands full.
Speaker 1: But believe me, but who decides the division of labor?
Speaker 1: Like if if some artist has only the second week
Speaker 1: of April to come to Philly to do something and
Speaker 1: you're not available, are you saying, okay, well take him
Speaker 1: to Dexter? Like are you the person that throws the
Speaker 1: ball and decides who goes where?
Speaker 2: Or not? Really? I mean because we generally work it
Speaker 2: out because the first part of the work is on us,
Speaker 2: is on me and Huff and mcfad and Whitehead, Dexter
Speaker 2: and Cynthia. Cynthia Biggs was great also too. She used
Speaker 2: to write with Dexter and Charlie Boy and Bruce Hall's.
Speaker 2: You know, we had a little group that we work
Speaker 2: with and we would the first thing that we would
Speaker 2: have to do is get the songs do we have
Speaker 2: the songs that we need before we bring these guys
Speaker 2: in here. And if we got the songs, and we
Speaker 2: all sit around and listening to the songs and we say,
Speaker 2: well we got some songs, let's bring them. Then we
Speaker 2: map out with their tour people like with the Old
Speaker 2: J's or our Melvin Blueenute whoever or Teddy say Okay,
Speaker 2: we need them for ten days. Then they can go
Speaker 2: away for a week and come back and give us
Speaker 2: another ten days. And they would schedule and then the reschedule,
Speaker 2: the release dates, photos for the album. Everything would be
Speaker 2: be set up, be set up so that so that
Speaker 2: it's not really it's not an inconvenience to anybody. The
Speaker 2: way we were recording.
Speaker 1: Why did you not why? But what was the inspiration
Speaker 1: behind you doing? You would alway do these paragraphs of whatever.
Speaker 1: The concept of the record was.
Speaker 2: Line of notes. Oh yeah, I forgot Yeah. I don't
Speaker 2: know why I started doing that, but I.
Speaker 4: Love that man. But it really got me obsessed with.
Speaker 1: Because you know what I used to write about what
Speaker 1: the theme of the album.
Speaker 2: Was, you know, you know, like would you name it?
Speaker 2: Sometimes the album ship a hoy and yeah, I used
Speaker 2: to say stuff on it. Who was I signing shipp
Speaker 2: Ahoy to it? Yeah, he's got him over there. Where's
Speaker 2: that album at I just signed it for it? Let
Speaker 2: me see that.
Speaker 1: So with ship a Hoy your concept and they were
Speaker 1: with it because this is pre roots, like nobody was
Speaker 1: really dealing with the slave trade and.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah this was something. Yeah yeah, ship Ahoy, Yeah
Speaker 2: this was something. It was Yeah, this was something because
Speaker 2: you know what this is around the time of the
Speaker 2: whole Alex Haley and the Roots and all that stuf. Elf,
Speaker 2: what's going on? I said, there's no music about it,
Speaker 2: you know. So we did this album, man, I got
Speaker 2: it's a it's a song that goes with this. We
Speaker 2: never got a chance to uh to do.
Speaker 1: Speaking of speaking of ship aboard, uh, I gotta know,
Speaker 1: how did you guys wind up with Anthony Jackson who
Speaker 1: he used to play with Billy Paul that base.
Speaker 2: Famous baseline probably of all time. Wasn't great?
Speaker 1: He was great?
Speaker 2: Yes? He also Anthony told me he invented the five
Speaker 2: string bass.
Speaker 4: I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Did he invent that?
Speaker 1: Yes? He there was never a five string bass till
Speaker 1: he came along. And when he customized his bass he
Speaker 1: I tell you one thing. He was great that day
Speaker 1: he played.
Speaker 2: He played like I don't I'm telling you it was unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Did you have that baseline for for the Love of
Speaker 2: Money or was that?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 1: He was that in his mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, we basically had the concept and he took
Speaker 2: it and emphasized. I mean, he just he took it
Speaker 2: to another level once you play that real quick intro.
Speaker 7: So you said there was a song that goes with that?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 4: No, No, he didn't recorded.
Speaker 6: Yeah right, you said that y'all didn't record or y'all
Speaker 6: didn't put it on the album.
Speaker 2: No, it's gotta be.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: On all of these albums there was the message. He
Speaker 2: would write a paragraph.
Speaker 1: You know. That's where.
Speaker 6: Now I want to know what the paragraph?
Speaker 2: I want to I guess we had it on it.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure this was important to me.
Speaker 1: It's the great Anthony Jackson on base y'all no echo
Speaker 1: right there? You know this right, it's not from the
Speaker 1: beginning again. That was that that Joe Tarcia, Oh that
Speaker 1: was Joseph told me you couldn't do it. I said, man,
Speaker 1: are you kidding?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: Nowhere echo back? Oh?
Speaker 3: Does it go back and forth? Throughout the whole song.
Speaker 3: I never noticed intro like I knew. I noticed it
Speaker 3: in the intro button, but only that first time.
Speaker 2: You can tell me, say you can't do that?
Speaker 1: I said, why not?
Speaker 2: Why can't you put echo on a base? Can you? Can?
Speaker 1: You speak upon Teddy at it at the height of
Speaker 1: his powers, and I don't think there's there's not much
Speaker 1: emphasis on how powerful he was and where he was headed, uh,
Speaker 1: where he was headed.
Speaker 2: In his career. But it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: And how how I mean starting as a drummer and
Speaker 1: howld Melvin the blue notes? Like how was that power
Speaker 1: just contained inside of that unit before you eventually had
Speaker 1: to bring it out like you always knew that voice
Speaker 1: was there. Nope.
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, my introduction to Teddy pinegress
Speaker 2: I was out doing something and called me and upset
Speaker 2: Gamble because we were always telling Howard Melvin and he
Speaker 2: needed a lead singer.
Speaker 1: You know, how do he take that that he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He's like Charlie Brown, not the star of his own.
Speaker 2: But how how is a genius? I mean this man
Speaker 2: here he put he put that he could take all
Speaker 2: of us and make us the blue notes. You know,
Speaker 2: that's the kind of gift he has. And I used
Speaker 2: to tell him I was he was my friend number one,
Speaker 2: and we're trying to get we're trying to make it.
Speaker 2: And so the key of it would be is that
Speaker 2: he had a lot of competition out there, and so
Speaker 2: to compete, Hal had a softer voice, a real smooth voice,
Speaker 2: a nice voice. But you needed that voice that could
Speaker 2: rock the house. Yeah, you needed a voice that could
Speaker 2: rock the house. And so I've called me one day
Speaker 2: and said, man, said, how got a guy here that
Speaker 2: plays the drums? He said, yeah, but you got to
Speaker 2: hit this guy. So by the time I got down
Speaker 2: there to the office and I heard him, I said, oh,
Speaker 2: that's the guy we've been looking for.
Speaker 1: How did you.
Speaker 2: Break the news to Harold that how this guy should sing?
Speaker 1: I miss you?
Speaker 4: Because we all thought that was Harold Milt, right.
Speaker 2: I know it. That's where the problem came in at
Speaker 2: is that you know that there was some kind of
Speaker 2: Hald Melvin and the Blue Notes, and we had Al
Speaker 2: Melvin the Blue Notes featuring Teddy Pendergrass, and then we
Speaker 2: even changed it because how was really putting together a
Speaker 2: fantastic show he had because it could have been Hal
Speaker 2: Melvin and The Blue Notes featuring Teddy Pendergrass and Shine Page.
Speaker 4: What was Sharon Page before she was singing in the group.
Speaker 2: McFadden and white Head brought Sharon Page in. You know,
Speaker 2: they knew her. She was from North Philly and she
Speaker 2: had well her voice is so sweet, man. I hope
Speaker 2: we can be together soon. That's great. And that was
Speaker 2: a song that we did with Dusty Springfield, Oh wow,
Speaker 2: years ago, hope we can be together soon. And and
Speaker 2: how Melvin took Sharon Page and rehearsed her. And when
Speaker 2: I listened to it, I said, wow, I said, this
Speaker 2: is good. I said, but you know what I said,
Speaker 2: we got to put Teddy on here. So so it
Speaker 2: was how Sharon Page and Teddy Pendergrass I put Teddy
Speaker 2: in on the end and right, yeah, which which really
Speaker 2: made it made it to me, made it nice, you know.
Speaker 1: And it was kind of hard to argue with success.
Speaker 1: But I know that that must have caused some sort
Speaker 1: of conflict with.
Speaker 2: I didn't know. I didn't look at it like that.
Speaker 2: I looked at it because well, I'm telling I was
Speaker 2: telling him. I said, were trying to make it, you know,
Speaker 2: and to me, you'd be like fooling yourself if you
Speaker 2: don't try to at least do the best that you
Speaker 2: can do.
Speaker 4: Did he try to attempt to sing these songs himself?
Speaker 2: He did, He did have a part in him.
Speaker 4: Oh, I was going to say, you have a version
Speaker 4: of I Miss You with Harold.
Speaker 1: I miss you.
Speaker 2: I mean, oh okay, I was like, I got here.
Speaker 2: I don't think it might be though, you know somewhere right, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: but no, that song was made for Teddy belly Gred.
Speaker 1: What was the decision to have him leave the group
Speaker 1: and did it cause did it cause a conflict of interests?
Speaker 4: Like, okay, you're going to produce us both now or.
Speaker 2: What we could have? And that's what I suggested. So
Speaker 2: was that a conflict of interest from them? Or well
Speaker 2: they wanted to leave, he they wanted they broke the group.
Speaker 2: But Teddy left the group right And he came to
Speaker 2: me and said, look, I'm leaving Harold Melvine and uh
Speaker 2: I can't get paid or whatever the situation was. I said, well,
Speaker 2: so he said can I stay here? I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: he can stay, it's no problem. So then when how
Speaker 2: came in and the house, well, you know, Teddy left
Speaker 2: the group. I got me a new singer, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, and I'll stay, but I don't want Teddy
Speaker 2: over here. I said, well, I can't do that.
Speaker 1: You're gonna lose this one, right, I can't do it.
Speaker 2: So and he had a good group, because that's when Ebo,
Speaker 2: I think you were in David Ebo. I think his
Speaker 2: name was Kenny might be, but.
Speaker 1: Anyway, he was good.
Speaker 2: And but it wasn't like Teddy Pendergrass and the whole thing.
Speaker 2: And uh and I think that's during the time when
Speaker 2: wake Up Everybody came out and that was pretty much
Speaker 2: didn't need a background, wake Up Everybody, and so we
Speaker 2: didn't use the background. But that was before the group
Speaker 2: broke up anyway, right, Okay, okay, So it wasn't it
Speaker 2: wasn't anything. But I loved how Harold Melvin had. We
Speaker 2: had a lot of talent and h he's the guy
Speaker 2: who discovered Teddy Pentograss.
Speaker 1: So the of the classic Philly International records, I mean,
Speaker 1: do you consider the classic logo era of Philly International.
Speaker 1: Do you consider paddle la Belle to be the end
Speaker 1: of that sentence?
Speaker 2: Or Wow, ain't that something? She's great? I'm in love again.
Speaker 2: That's a great song, right, away.
Speaker 5: If only you knew that was like, that's one of
Speaker 5: my favorite my.
Speaker 1: Loved even want you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Patti LaBelle, She's a classic, you know.
Speaker 2: And I mean when we start to think of these people,
Speaker 2: you know, these are all all good friends. I try
Speaker 2: to make sure that we had not only make music together,
Speaker 2: but we also respect one another. And uh, Patty, I've
Speaker 2: been knowing Patty since we were teenagers.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I was really glad to be able to work with her,
Speaker 2: and I'm really glad to get the hits that we
Speaker 2: got with her. We got some stuff on her right
Speaker 2: now in the can that I want to get it out.
Speaker 2: So we're going to start trying to put some of
Speaker 2: this stuff out. I want to know what's in the can.
Speaker 2: You want you, I want to know what's in the can. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I want to know what's in the can. So are
Speaker 2: you of your entire Did you hear that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I was like I heard it, but I didn't absorb it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that. Yeah, okay, of of your entire canon?
Speaker 1: What do you what do you feel? What is the
Speaker 1: most special to you, the most sentimental? Your your baby,
Speaker 1: You're the song that you've written. Can you say that.
Speaker 2: Wow, there's quite a few.
Speaker 1: All right, I'll give you three.
Speaker 4: Give me what are your What are your three?
Speaker 2: Well, let's go with let's go with Family Reunion. That's
Speaker 2: a good one. Okay. You feel if you feel a
Speaker 2: certain way when you when you have songs.
Speaker 3: When when those opening notes come in, like it's just
Speaker 3: warmth all over there.
Speaker 2: It's great. Yeah, that's that's I love that record. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's like potatoes out. Yeah, it's good for you in
Speaker 2: the kitchen.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's a real picture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's nice.
Speaker 1: And for nineteen seventy six, what else you got? I think,
Speaker 1: well this but for the love of money, of course,
Speaker 1: you know that.
Speaker 6: That's just you're doing your top earners over there.
Speaker 2: Check this out on this album. Here, here's a song
Speaker 2: that we did. It's called this Air.
Speaker 1: I breathe.
Speaker 2: Now, this was before all the pollution and oncology, right
Speaker 2: is there? I breathe It don't belong to me. I
Speaker 2: breathe it in, I take it in and I breathe
Speaker 2: it out. It just won't stay in my mouth. That's
Speaker 2: the lyrics. Yeah, Wow, don't call me brother. That's a
Speaker 2: good one. People, I love that song. That's a good one.
Speaker 2: It's the truth. That is my favorite song. That's the
Speaker 2: original player hater call that.
Speaker 7: And I asked a question.
Speaker 8: Yes, I'm noticing in some of the songwriting credits sometimes
Speaker 8: it's uh huff gamble, sometimes it's gamble hoff.
Speaker 2: I didn't notice it. John Lennon, Lenna McCartney.
Speaker 1: Yeah, situation. I'm not sure.
Speaker 7: Did that mean anything that I represent?
Speaker 2: Not to me, I've never even seen that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm the same album something executive songs. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 8: it might just be a type.
Speaker 2: What song is that?
Speaker 8: Nobody could take your place? As half gamble? Nobody could
Speaker 8: ever take it?
Speaker 7: Somewhere down the line is gamble hoof same thing?
Speaker 2: Nobody could ever take your place? That's a good song?
Speaker 6: Was lou Rawls You'll never find? Is that one of
Speaker 6: your top three?
Speaker 2: Ye, that's a good one.
Speaker 6: I got to give it to Belief again, I can't
Speaker 6: take the credit.
Speaker 2: Did you ever think a song wasn't going to be
Speaker 2: a hit and wound up being a hit?
Speaker 1: Or vice versa?
Speaker 2: Three degrees? What which one?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 1: It just hit me that a big part of their
Speaker 1: notariety was the fact that that song was also a
Speaker 1: favorite of Prince Charles. Yeah, so the Prince Charles was
Speaker 1: like that was his was that was his TLC. So
Speaker 1: he invited them over.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, he was cheating with Camilla.
Speaker 2: This is when this is when he was a teenager.
Speaker 1: He invited them over them and then like they were
Speaker 1: in the press, they're like, meet Prince Charles's favorite group,
Speaker 1: the Three Degrees and that that's.
Speaker 2: How like that that helped.
Speaker 1: Them a lot, like was the Drake of his day.
Speaker 2: The Jones girls. Wow, the Jones girls.
Speaker 1: Man, you guys are just pulling them out iterations of it.
Speaker 2: That goes back to Dexter WANs All again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, turned into the.
Speaker 2: Most The beautiful thing was we had so much competition
Speaker 2: amongst each other, you know, and so that makes it better.
Speaker 2: When you got people that you have to compete with,
Speaker 2: you gotta win, so you gotta be good. And I
Speaker 2: listened to songs like like Sadie Jefferson and Simmons. It
Speaker 2: was a great song Sadie, you know. And the Spinners
Speaker 2: were they were excellent. I mean Philippe, the guy who
Speaker 2: was the lead single fan when this guy was unbelievable,
Speaker 2: you know he was.
Speaker 1: He was as good almost as a Teddy Pendergrass.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean especially in performing, like out
Speaker 2: on stage, this guy would turn the joint out man.
Speaker 2: And it's unfortunate that he that he got hisself in
Speaker 2: that in that situation where he had that heart attack
Speaker 2: or whatever, but he had a tremendous future. I would
Speaker 2: even compare him to who had the potential of becoming
Speaker 2: like a Sam Cook. That's the kind of voice that
Speaker 2: this guy had. You know, they had some great albums together.
Speaker 2: I mean Tommy Bell, I mean, he made some beautiful
Speaker 2: music with the Spinners, Din Warick. And then there's another
Speaker 2: songwriter that we had with us as Vinny Barrett. She
Speaker 2: was great, Benny Barrett.
Speaker 1: What is your favorite obscure piro joint?
Speaker 2: Probably one of them is Oh, Jay's my favorite person.
Speaker 3: So good one. Jam That's a good one. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: like yours. Bill I mentioned it earlier. It's Dexter one.
Speaker 3: You can be what you want to be, Okay, Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I love that one.
Speaker 6: Just asked I did mine niceer reason because I know
Speaker 6: it's not but I know some people but it was.
Speaker 5: But I'm just saying, but no, that's that's a great song.
Speaker 2: I people talk about like clean.
Speaker 6: Up the Ghetto is still skew to some people, So
Speaker 6: I'll take that one.
Speaker 1: I wasn't familiar with until Daft Punk used cold Bottom.
Speaker 1: I forgot that was p I R.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh wow damn yeah.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, actually there's three daft Punk samples off that first.
Speaker 2: Uh, Edwards, how do you feel about people sampling your stuff?
Speaker 1: It's great, I'll take another.
Speaker 3: All that's a perfect answer because it basically it recontextualizes
Speaker 3: it for an entire new generation. Like I mean, there's
Speaker 3: so much classic music that was sampled via hip hop
Speaker 3: that I probably wouldn't have heard of.
Speaker 2: So it just opened my ears to so much more.
Speaker 6: Oh, that was the Kanye story I was telling earlier
Speaker 6: when we was on stage and Kanye asked, you could
Speaker 6: he get hit there's some samples for free beautiful?
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you literally.
Speaker 6: Literally he was like we literally.
Speaker 2: Kobe said, would you like.
Speaker 6: What was the first thing you would like to say
Speaker 6: to mister Gamble? Can I get some samples for free?
Speaker 6: Promise you?
Speaker 2: What was your response?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No, I can't do that. All yeah, I mean free.
Speaker 3: We can work together, maybe nothing off the top, but
Speaker 3: something off the back end.
Speaker 2: But it's good to work you know. But Kanye, he's
Speaker 2: done good. He's not real good.
Speaker 6: Do you have a faith? How long ages that? That
Speaker 6: was like fifteen years ago?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 6: I mean it's been a long Like do you have
Speaker 6: a favorite use of a of a sample of your song?
Speaker 2: Oh? Man?
Speaker 1: Oh no, Cliff, they did what did y'all do? What
Speaker 1: was that thing y'all did that CD did with Anthony Ellis?
Speaker 1: Samthology was? What's biggest smalls on that? Use?
Speaker 6: The Dynasty record? The jay z on more?
Speaker 1: Can I say? Well, mindset singing something nothing y That's
Speaker 1: not what I'm talking about.
Speaker 6: I'm talking about. That's another song he used.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, do you have anything else? Man? I got
Speaker 1: so many?
Speaker 5: So okay, I want to say and correct me if
Speaker 5: I'm wrong. I remember, I think I remember this was
Speaker 5: like ninety seven ninety eight. You did an interview with
Speaker 5: Vibe I want to say, and they played you. They
Speaker 5: were playing you like some new songs and you were
Speaker 5: kind of getting your opinion on them, and one of
Speaker 5: the songs that you really liked was it was hot
Speaker 5: at that time, happily happily ever after about the case.
Speaker 5: And I remember you, you know you really liked that song.
Speaker 5: You were saying, you know, this reminds me of something
Speaker 5: that you know me and that we would have did
Speaker 5: back in our day. And I was and that was
Speaker 5: one of the times I really I had even more
Speaker 5: respect for you because a lot of times the older
Speaker 5: cats would look at the younger dudes like, nah, that
Speaker 5: that's not real music. But that was a hot record
Speaker 5: and it was a really good song at studio when
Speaker 5: I thought because first one. So when I saw you
Speaker 5: give that process, I was like, Okay, he's still on it.
Speaker 2: You know, he's still in it.
Speaker 5: So do you have any artists now that you hear,
Speaker 5: like from a songwriter perspective, and you're like, you know what,
Speaker 5: this is a really good crafted song.
Speaker 2: I wish I had read that well. I think song wise,
Speaker 2: I think what what comes in my head right now?
Speaker 2: It's that song about meet me in the middle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love.
Speaker 2: You all right now?
Speaker 4: And because right now, yeah I don't know, in the
Speaker 4: uber some point right now.
Speaker 6: Stuff.
Speaker 9: It's like a really popular tonight show. So you still
Speaker 9: lost at Target?
Speaker 2: Target, Why don't you you've heard the song world?
Speaker 1: Probably I got a feeling of two thousand and seventeen,
Speaker 1: it still has a.
Speaker 2: You know, I thought it was good. I think it's
Speaker 2: a good it's real catchy you know, yeah.
Speaker 6: And that girl was a songwriter first, she just started
Speaker 6: really thanks singing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Marin Moore surprising, show's surprised as the bell she's on street.
Speaker 2: I like this girl. Her name is her yeah yeah?
Speaker 2: And what's the other girl's name? Yell yeah boot. I
Speaker 2: like both of them.
Speaker 1: I like, I like it's a little bit different, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And their voices are different.
Speaker 2: You like John Legend. I love John Legend. Yeah. Version
Speaker 2: of wake Up, Wake Up Everybody. I think there's too
Speaker 2: many people on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think I should have did it by itself.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I think so too. I think so too.
Speaker 1: I think something.
Speaker 6: You know who produced that record?
Speaker 2: Quest?
Speaker 3: That's why you yes, exactly great.
Speaker 1: So in terms of how many people like you, why
Speaker 1: didn't know Common Melanie were on it?
Speaker 4: You know, we just we did the bear tracks and
Speaker 4: then went on tour and it's.
Speaker 1: Like, oh, came back and it was But you.
Speaker 2: Know what, that song is going to be around a
Speaker 2: long time because of that, because of y'all doing it,
Speaker 2: because all of y'all careers is just blooming, get bigger
Speaker 2: and bigger and bigger, and it's just gonna make more
Speaker 2: people let's into it when I got an oscar? Now, yeah,
Speaker 2: what was that common comment? Yeah, it's great. He was,
Speaker 2: he gonna wake.
Speaker 6: Up everything him to.
Speaker 2: What did what did you.
Speaker 3: Don't ask you about? What do you think about new stuff?
Speaker 3: It was it was on that epic or Columbia, Columbia, Columbia.
Speaker 6: I was just gonna ask him what he thought about
Speaker 6: the resurgence of like Philly Soul when you know the
Speaker 6: roots black Lily, like when that Jill, when all that happened,
Speaker 6: you thinking.
Speaker 1: I loved it. I love I love the whole black
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 3: He worked with Victor Play, Victor Cook, Victor Play.
Speaker 6: And James Poyser, who, yes mc fee also worked in
Speaker 6: pr R.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I love it man, because you know what,
Speaker 2: like I've seen James in the in the train station
Speaker 2: one day and men were sitting there talking, were waiting
Speaker 2: for the train, and I said, James, I said, you're
Speaker 2: really doing good.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: I said, I said, I see you every night. Like
Speaker 2: I told him, was I see you every night? And uh,
Speaker 2: you talk about talented people like James is a very
Speaker 2: talented person. I mean I was telling him, I said,
Speaker 2: you know the the part that Jimmy fallon does when
Speaker 2: he says thank you.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the thank you notes.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a beautiful melody he's playing there, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. I would let's not guess.
Speaker 6: James Award winning James.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that that is in my view, that's
Speaker 2: a great melody. And I'm listening to us as Wow,
Speaker 2: I said, that would be great. Maybe if you had maybe.
Speaker 1: Keep a song over it. You should borrow it and
Speaker 1: do something with it.
Speaker 7: You.
Speaker 3: I'm talking to mister Gamble over here. You should give
Speaker 3: that songs the blue Face make it hit.
Speaker 2: Blue Face. Don't go down there.
Speaker 3: I'm saying, all the all the kids are taking your stuff,
Speaker 3: so why don't you take some of the I just.
Speaker 1: Might it's take it back and finish it there. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you don't need no lyrics to it.
Speaker 2: It's a melody, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And you know, but some words could take it to
Speaker 3: the next place. Okay, Well with.
Speaker 5: That said, I just want to love is the message
Speaker 5: MFSB Oh, yeah, I was. Are you aware of the
Speaker 5: So there's a version probably like the most famous version. Honestly,
Speaker 5: the first version of love is the message that I
Speaker 5: ever heard.
Speaker 1: Like I don't even know which version of Love.
Speaker 2: Never Yeah, because I just don't agree with it.
Speaker 5: So there's a DJ named Danny Crivitt that did a
Speaker 5: re edit of Love is the.
Speaker 9: New York From New York, I've heard it, Okay, what
Speaker 9: were your thoughts on I thought it was great, Okay,
Speaker 9: because that was the first version I heard I love.
Speaker 3: Man, how did you feel when you found out that
Speaker 3: song was such a huge record in discos? Like it's
Speaker 3: like it's was the loft, it was the anthem of
Speaker 3: the loft, it was the work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you know what Mike Tyson told me, he said, Man,
Speaker 1: he said, I used to take that song Love is
Speaker 1: a Message.
Speaker 2: He said, I used to exercise to it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'll tell you something.
Speaker 2: You know, you know how I know it's summer in
Speaker 2: New York.
Speaker 3: Somebody driving down the street playing Love is a Message,
Speaker 3: no matter what neighborhood I'm.
Speaker 2: In, Ain't that's something they could have gone a different way.
Speaker 2: I'm like, God.
Speaker 1: Thank God.
Speaker 2: But no, Like.
Speaker 3: I think I think I noticed it, maybe the I
Speaker 3: moved to New York and maybe like two two thousand
Speaker 3: and two, I probably noticed that summer, like I first
Speaker 3: heard somebody driving down the street, and then every summer afterwards,
Speaker 3: I would notice, like I'm always hearing somebody blasting love
Speaker 3: is a message going down the street, no matter what
Speaker 3: neighborhood I'm in.
Speaker 2: Ain't that's something were you?
Speaker 1: Were you guys aware at the impact of because based
Speaker 1: on the times that I see on these records, and
Speaker 1: you weren't making twelve inch.
Speaker 4: Records as of yet, But did.
Speaker 1: You guys have an inkling like, Okay, the longer we
Speaker 1: make the song, the more they keep it on, the.
Speaker 2: Better it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm telling you. They tell you we had.
Speaker 2: We had a fight with with CBS when we were
Speaker 2: with them because the first long Vergin record that we
Speaker 2: did was The Love I Lost, Yes, and then we
Speaker 2: came back. Yeah, this was a good one. I mean
Speaker 2: that was that was smoking that track. And we told
Speaker 2: them about the twelve inches, right, but CBS wanted to
Speaker 2: have them on a forty five.
Speaker 1: It's not gonna work, you know what I mean. You
Speaker 1: gotta have you gotta have. The twelve inch has got
Speaker 1: to be the same size as the album because mastering it.
Speaker 1: If you try to master for a little forty five, ye,
Speaker 1: the grooves gonna knod. Yeah, you wouldn't get the same sound.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that that, but we finally won and and
Speaker 2: uh the battle with them on that twelve inch being
Speaker 2: the long version thirty three and the third and ain't
Speaker 2: no stopping this now.
Speaker 1: I think we must have sold like seventy five thousand
Speaker 1: in New York alone on the twelve inch. I got
Speaker 1: warmer question than you got to wrap up Jacko's Rhythm Talk.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's my man. I love Jacko. How okay?
Speaker 1: What was that?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: I'm this is gonna be my last song that I
Speaker 1: played right when when rappers the light was red hot.
Speaker 1: Jacko Jacko Henderson basically is the father of hip hop.
Speaker 1: That that kind of cat, who's hey Papa. He used
Speaker 1: to get in the back Philly guy.
Speaker 2: Uh he was a.
Speaker 1: New York Yes, yeah, probably a month later after rappers
Speaker 1: are like, rhythm Talk comes out and at least in Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: it just dominated.
Speaker 2: Jocko used to tell me, he said, rap is the thing, Kenny,
Speaker 2: And he said, he said, let me go in the
Speaker 2: studio and give me this track. So he went in
Speaker 2: there and did that track. He did an excellent job. Yes,
Speaker 2: I've heard the music.
Speaker 1: I've heard this and that's how we're going to fade out, Yo,
Speaker 1: doctor Gamble. Great listen, thank you for everything, everything and
Speaker 1: everything for everything.
Speaker 9: I love it.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful family. I remember.
Speaker 1: And this used to get the dude. I copied all
Speaker 1: these lyrics and performed it in fourth grade.
Speaker 2: Good but don't let probably for you? Wow? What year
Speaker 2: seventy nine?
Speaker 4: Wow, November seventy nine. It's my part, said.
Speaker 1: The originator of Mumble Rap. Yeah, Mumble rap, God jac anyway,
Speaker 1: I want we have everybody on Quest Love Supreme, this
Speaker 1: Quest Love the Family.
Speaker 2: Thank you, doctor gamb I appreciate it. Man, please shout
Speaker 2: up and glee. Thank you for let us go next up.
Speaker 2: I need the hood, I need to hoodie.
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, we'll see you all next time on Quest Supreme.
Speaker 1: Got you against the love.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna make you scream for Mom, says bringing me
Speaker 2: up to you, Mom.
Speaker 1: Your sister's naming your needs.
Speaker 4: Freeze you like first.
Speaker 2: Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.