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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey what's up, y'all?

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Speaker 1: This is Questlove And as you've noticed throughout June, we

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Speaker 1: are celebrating Black Music Money by releasing an episode every day.

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Speaker 1: So every day you're either going to hear a special

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Speaker 1: pick QLs Classic and on Wednesdays we're dropping new two

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Speaker 1: part episodes with Queene Brady and James.

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Speaker 2: Poyser, both of which were filmed in studio, so make

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Speaker 2: sure you also watch us on YouTube. We are closing

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Speaker 2: out with one of the architects of Black music Money,

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Speaker 2: the amazing Kenny Gamble.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. You know that's all I got, Ladies

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Speaker 1: and gentlemen. This is another episode of Quest Love Supreme.

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Speaker 1: We have this Preme team with us. We have Fine

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Speaker 1: Tikeolo in the house. Yeah, and we got Boss Bill

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Speaker 1: and yeah you hear loud and clear, we got Unpaid

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Speaker 1: Bill and we also have Sugar Steve and of course

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Speaker 1: like ya, how are you? This is a special episode.

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Speaker 1: We are not doing the Supreme rold Call. We are

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Speaker 1: in the presence of Black Music Royalty, Universal Music Royalty,

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Speaker 1: and it's just going to cut this song off in

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Speaker 1: a minute too.

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Speaker 2: This is my jam.

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Speaker 1: No, the best part is about to happen. Oh, ladies

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Speaker 1: and gentlemen, we are blessed to be in the presence

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Speaker 1: of one of the greatest, one of the greatest composers, businessman, producers,

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Speaker 1: so and so funk. Yeah, I can't even perform us something.

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Speaker 2: Just be quiet, talking, ladies and gentlemen. The man who.

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Speaker 1: Gave us the sound of Philadelphia, the man who gave

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Speaker 1: me my own career. Without him, there is no sound

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Speaker 1: of Philadelphia, the one and only Kenny Gamble question.

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Speaker 2: And I almost don't want you to.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry. You got wait wait till my part come on.

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Speaker 3: It's coming, don't don't. Can we tell people what the

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Speaker 3: song this is MFS Big Mysteries of the World.

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Speaker 1: You kipped it? No, I didn't. This is so good.

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Speaker 1: I had to go back to the top.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, but this is right there.

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Speaker 1: Actually I went to the end of the song to

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Speaker 1: avoid that bridge. But I didn't know that meant so

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Speaker 1: much that you know, I just ruined the moment for you.

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Speaker 1: You did, you did the quest. This this is what

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Speaker 1: I just argue about things.

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Speaker 2: Again.

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Speaker 1: Uh, mister Kenny Gamble, doctor Kenmble Man, thank you, this.

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Speaker 2: Is that's beautiful. Wow, what about.

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Speaker 1: Oh man?

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Speaker 3: I was listening to you Can't Be You can be

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Speaker 3: what you want to be this morning in the shower.

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Speaker 1: That's jam you want to be.

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Speaker 2: It's a great one yea and one million miles from

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Speaker 2: the ground. So we're just gonna start.

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Speaker 5: I'm sorry, Yeah, I'm yeah, and I want to say

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Speaker 5: just it's I'm so. It's such an honor to have

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Speaker 5: you here because you're the first record label. As a kid,

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Speaker 5: I knew exactly what the records were going to sound

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Speaker 5: like just from the label.

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Speaker 2: From the label.

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Speaker 5: I remember like my aunt, she was like a big

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Speaker 5: you know, fill international, so she had everything. She was

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Speaker 5: a she was a really big Gene carn fan, and

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Speaker 5: so she used to play like I'm Back for More,

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Speaker 5: like that's like one.

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Speaker 2: Of my favorite.

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Speaker 5: But I remember like going through a record collection and

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Speaker 5: anytime I saw like that green the green label with

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Speaker 5: the little red, I knew it was gonna be strings.

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Speaker 5: I knew it was going be like super clean, like I

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Speaker 5: just knew that.

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Speaker 1: And they tried to make it red, black and green.

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Speaker 2: You know about that?

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Speaker 1: So the vinyl was black black, right because the people

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Speaker 1: the power levels so okay, So was it by design,

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Speaker 1: because there was a point in history when that logo

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Speaker 1: didn't have the two white dots in the middle logo.

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Speaker 4: Yes, the very first like the odd Uh, I mean,

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Speaker 4: I miss you.

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Speaker 2: Uh, how.

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Speaker 1: There are the two white dots aren't in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the Philly International Look. That didn't come until like

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Speaker 1: seventy three, So there are a few albums that are

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Speaker 1: without that white dots. I thought that was by.

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Speaker 2: No design and just the first I'm mean about.

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Speaker 1: What could have been different pressing plants similar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's great, man, it really is. And uh,

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Speaker 2: I tell you we we tried our best, and we

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Speaker 2: had good people with us too.

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Speaker 1: You guys succeeded as far as I'm yes.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm thankful, thank you very much, and I'm glad

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Speaker 2: to be here. This is a beautiful thing with a

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Speaker 2: lot of energy going on. Were you born in Philadelphia,

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Speaker 2: South Philly? Yeah? Where fifteenth in Christian.

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Speaker 6: Wow, down the block from where you live now.

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Speaker 1: Right down the block from where I lived, and you

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Speaker 1: still live there, still live there.

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Speaker 2: How does it feel to grow up there?

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Speaker 1: To be born there and see where it it was

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Speaker 1: sort of dissolved to and you single handedly, well you

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Speaker 1: did gentrification the right way, the right way. Yeah, well

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Speaker 1: I had those restaurants. I loved eating those restaurants. Everything

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Speaker 1: that you did for that neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: It was it's it's been, you know it really to me,

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Speaker 2: it was like it was like a no brainer almost.

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Speaker 2: You know, how can you live in the world where

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Speaker 2: you got the area that I grew up in, where

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Speaker 2: you got Malcolm X, you got Muhamad Ali, you got

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Speaker 2: Eli to Muhammads, you got revenuely On Sullivan, you got

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Speaker 2: all these great people.

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Speaker 1: Talking about building our community.

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Speaker 2: And then I used to go to a lot of

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Speaker 2: meetings and now I would ask people, I said, well,

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Speaker 2: who's going to do it? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: We all say, you know.

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Speaker 1: You know, we should do this, and we should do that,

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Speaker 1: and we could have this, and we could have that.

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Speaker 2: But the question is is who's going to do it.

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Speaker 2: So with my children and everything, with Cleave and Saladan

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Speaker 2: and an Idea and my family, you know, we decided

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Speaker 2: to give it a try. And I didn't live there

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Speaker 2: all the time. Of course, I lived there, and then

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Speaker 2: I moved away like everybody else do. I moved into

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Speaker 2: the suburbs and it was really nice, but I kept

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Speaker 2: thinking about South Philly, you know, and I'm always inside,

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Speaker 2: i feel, because that's where our office was and everything.

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Speaker 2: So eventually a little inspiration comes came and said, look,

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Speaker 2: and when we did, let's clean up the ghetto. That

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Speaker 2: was that was one of those ones that kept pounding

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Speaker 2: in your head. And so it's it's like, ah, you

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Speaker 2: gotta put one foot foot forward and see what you

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Speaker 2: can do. And and it all started pretty much with

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Speaker 2: with buying the properties. Once we started buying all the

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Speaker 2: properties and we had so many of them, he said,

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Speaker 2: and what we're gonna do with all these raggedy houses,

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Speaker 2: all all these bigger lots and raggedy houses and uh.

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Speaker 2: And so it's just a matter of, hey, we're going

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Speaker 2: to clean up the ghetto. We're going to rebuild. And

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Speaker 2: the way to we not only rebuild the houses and whatever,

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Speaker 2: but rebuild the people, rebuild the culture and and everything.

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Speaker 2: And so so it started working. It's we've been announced.

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Speaker 2: We moved like nineteen ninety. Nineteen ninety is when we

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Speaker 2: moved back to South Philly, you know, and we were

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Speaker 2: we were in Gladwin, you know, because it was beautiful

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Speaker 2: out and glad one and but it wasn't as beautiful

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Speaker 2: as it was when we moved back to South Philly,

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Speaker 2: although it was a culture shock for my kids everybody,

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Speaker 2: you know, but see where we're at now, you know.

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Speaker 2: But it's like one of those things where you know,

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Speaker 2: you can't you can't really keep asking somebody else to

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Speaker 2: do something for you talk about that you can do

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Speaker 2: for yourself, you know. So that's pretty much what this

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Speaker 2: is an effort. And then it's not by myself. We

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Speaker 2: got hundreds of people that really saw where we were

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Speaker 2: coming from. And you rebuild a whole neighborhood, you rebuild

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Speaker 2: a whole community of people.

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Speaker 6: Not to mention the school system.

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Speaker 2: And the schools, and that was everything is evolves around health,

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Speaker 2: good health and education. That's it. So we have some

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Speaker 2: tremendous health programs that we work on. In education was

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Speaker 2: the was the number one thing that we got involved with,

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Speaker 2: and that was the charter schools, and so we have

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Speaker 2: eight charter schools. And believe me, it's not an easy thing.

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Speaker 2: It's not easy. It's going to take it's going to

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Speaker 2: take years, in years to reverse this this consciousness that

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Speaker 2: within especially the African American community. But it's working, it

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Speaker 2: can and it will work, you know. So so it's

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Speaker 2: not it's not it's not easy.

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Speaker 1: Did you know that you were going to see it

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Speaker 1: through from the very beginning, assuming Matt you started acquiring

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Speaker 1: the property in the late eighties, because even I heard,

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Speaker 1: like I when my uncle used to drive me to

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Speaker 1: and from school and we used to go like all

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Speaker 1: that dilapidated, busted down property, and he was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, Kenny Gamble owns all and I could imagine

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Speaker 1: like all these blocks and he's like, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I couldn't see that far in the future to

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Speaker 1: figure out what vision you had to refurbish it and

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Speaker 1: restore it back to what it is now.

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Speaker 4: Like so from what year did you start to say that.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to rebuild?

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Speaker 2: Well, we did records at fourteen and fifteen blocks in

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Speaker 2: South Philly, or well we well we started like from

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Speaker 2: from like eleventh Street all the way up to like

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Speaker 2: twenty fourth Street, from South Street all the way over

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Speaker 2: to Washington Avenue. That was the area. And within that

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Speaker 2: area there were a lot of vacant We had maps,

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Speaker 2: we had like a war room, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: maps that at every house, every abandoned lot, every school,

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Speaker 2: everything on these on these maps and what we did

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Speaker 2: is came up with our plan. Our plan was to

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Speaker 2: be able to build a community that you could take

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Speaker 2: and have some open spaces, you know where you'd have

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Speaker 2: some some gardens and have something open. The schools, I mean,

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Speaker 2: this has been the hardest part is the schools, I

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Speaker 2: mean the education thing. And wasn't developing it, like you

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Speaker 2: just can't tell the city.

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Speaker 1: You got to work with them.

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Speaker 2: You got to work with.

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Speaker 1: Them, even if it's a private school or well, these

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Speaker 1: are charter schools, so these are public private schools.

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Speaker 2: The problem with private schools is the economics of it,

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Speaker 2: you know, and and because many of our people don't

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Speaker 2: have the money to pay to go to a charter school,

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Speaker 2: I mean to a private shart school. Yeah. So so

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Speaker 2: we have we got one wonderful thing going. And one

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Speaker 2: of the things I can't think of it now. You know.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the things that happened when you get old,

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Speaker 2: you start missing things here you'd be thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: It's gone, but it'll come back, it'll come back later.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Man. So how did music first enter your life

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Speaker 1: growing up in Philadelphia?

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Speaker 2: What got you into the music? Well, you know, the

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Speaker 2: music to me was always there. I always loved music.

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Speaker 2: And there was a day that that sticks out in

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Speaker 2: my life. Right the day that sticks out in my

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Speaker 2: life was there used to be a baptism that used

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Speaker 2: to have happened on fifteen Christian where I used to live,

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Speaker 2: and it was the Daddy Grace Church prayer House of prayer.

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Speaker 2: So the bands, I don't know if you ever heard

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Speaker 2: their bands in there, but it was around my birthdays

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Speaker 2: when they have their their convocations and uh. And that

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Speaker 2: morning when my mother I asked her, I said, well,

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Speaker 2: who is that you know up the street and they

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Speaker 2: were out there baptizing people with this hose with the hose, yeah,

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Speaker 2: with the water holes like and it was so interesting

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Speaker 2: that even today I still go there because they always

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Speaker 2: had the convocation around my birthday. They have it all

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Speaker 2: across the country, by the way, and so last that's

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Speaker 2: what really got me listening to music. That when and

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Speaker 2: when you listen to our music, listen to them horns

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Speaker 2: in there, because I try to get them horns going

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Speaker 2: in there, and it was good. One other thing you

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Speaker 2: asked me was seeing the whole project through the h

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Speaker 2: we started in the seventies with the buying. The properties

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Speaker 2: were cleaned up the ghetto. The intention was to buy

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Speaker 2: those properties and get the land first, and so that

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Speaker 2: was there was a brother's name was Norman Gatzon who

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Speaker 2: worked along with us, and he was he's a real

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Speaker 2: estate guy. He knew a lot about real estate, and

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Speaker 2: my wife she knew about real estate. So we kind

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Speaker 2: of disguised Norman as a person because then we could

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Speaker 2: get them for very low prices because at that particular time,

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Speaker 2: the property in these neighborhoods that I mean these vacant

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Speaker 2: lots and whatever, at that time they were very very cheap,

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Speaker 2: you know, and the city really wanted to see things developed,

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Speaker 2: and they had a couple of public housing programs and

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Speaker 2: so we were able to build up construction, development come

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Speaker 2: and it worked out good. It worked out real good

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Speaker 2: that the city of Philadelphia. It's not easy. It's not

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Speaker 2: easy because it's a lot of red tape involved in

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Speaker 2: all this stuff, but you know, you got to go

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Speaker 2: through it to get to where you want to go.

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Speaker 2: And that's what started the whole thing. But the one

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Speaker 2: ingredient as we were doing this, brother, the one thing

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Speaker 2: that came into my mind was why haven't these programs

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Speaker 2: worked before? You have so many good intention people that

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Speaker 2: want to do something in the community. And what I

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Speaker 2: found out is that in the development business is that

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Speaker 2: you have people who live out of the African American

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Speaker 2: community doing all the work in the community. And so

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Speaker 2: what we decided to do is to live in the community.

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Speaker 2: So that was the biggest decision of all is to

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Speaker 2: move back into South Philadelphia and be there so that

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Speaker 2: the neighborhood, because it was all in the newspapers, you know,

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Speaker 2: Kenny Gamble boos back to southfully, you know they once

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Speaker 2: because the what do you call it when the neighborhood's

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Speaker 2: being turned around? Gentrification, thank you brothers, that was starting

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Speaker 2: to happen. And even today, I mean, it's just unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: And you got lots in South Philadelphia that were at

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Speaker 2: that particular time maybe you know, you could buy them

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Speaker 2: for five thousand dollars or whatever, but today those same

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Speaker 2: lots today might cost you fifty one hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: And so it's become a money game. In fact, all

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Speaker 2: of it is based on economics. And it's just like

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Speaker 2: New York and Harlem. Same thing happened there, same things

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Speaker 2: happened in Washington, DC. All over the country. You know,

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Speaker 2: so that's what happened. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So with music, what you were a guitar player correct

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Speaker 1: or you played.

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Speaker 2: A still guitar. I've heard about you dabbling guitar back. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I got maybe about six cords that I can play.

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Speaker 1: What was the first musical performance he gave, like, how

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Speaker 1: did you developed your chops?

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Speaker 2: Well, well, you know, we had a band called the Romeos,

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Speaker 2: and always we had some good people, I mean Rolling Chambers,

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Speaker 2: he was a guitar players. Oh, he was great man,

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Speaker 2: you know. And and then his brother Karl was a

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Speaker 2: drummer called Chambers. And you had Tom Bell who played keyboards.

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Speaker 2: You had Leon Huff who was with us who played

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Speaker 2: keyboards and worlds and all that stuff. And you had

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Speaker 2: Lenny Pecoola who was played the organ. And so we

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Speaker 2: used to play. We used to play on the weekends

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Speaker 2: all the time. All the time. We play on the weekends,

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Speaker 2: and and that that was a lot of fun. That

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Speaker 2: was a whole lot of fun working on the weekend.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's I would say that. So you're saying that

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Speaker 1: the gathering of the what you would form or dub

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Speaker 1: the sound of Philadelphia. The Tom Bell and all those guys,

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Speaker 1: they you all started together when you were in high school.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, tom Bell. I met him. His sister. My

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Speaker 2: name is Barbara. She used to be in my class,

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Speaker 2: and so she asked me.

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Speaker 1: She said, come on walk me home one day. One day,

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Speaker 1: so I walked home. She lived on.

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Speaker 2: Parish Street fifty fiftieth in Parish. When I got to

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Speaker 2: the house, I heard somebody playing the piano. So I asked,

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Speaker 2: I said, who was that playing the piano? She said,

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Speaker 2: that's my brother, Tommy. I said, I Me, Me, Me

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Speaker 2: and Tommy Bell. We wrote three songs that day.

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Speaker 6: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Really we still got those songs. I mean. And the

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Speaker 2: funny part about it is I.

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Speaker 1: Keep telling them, I said, tom I said, we gotta

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Speaker 1: cut them songs. I said, we gotta cut them songs, man,

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Speaker 1: because if we go, nobody will know, you.

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Speaker 2: Know what I mean?

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Speaker 6: Well, wait, I got a question. You weren't you raised?

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Speaker 6: Were you raised Jehovah's witness Right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: So how did the music? How did you? Because I'm

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Speaker 6: kind of strict when it comes to the music, or

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Speaker 6: how did you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, yeah, they have their own music, Joe's Witnesses.

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Speaker 6: But they don't even know that scary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean they're not their own music that

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Speaker 2: they have their own little song book. It's not like

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Speaker 2: going to a Baptist church or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And they got you were never raised in that sort

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Speaker 1: of none hollering fine brimstone.

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Speaker 2: No, not really none, never raised in that. But you

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Speaker 2: know what, I loved it, you know, I love I

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Speaker 2: love being in the House of Prayer, and and I

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Speaker 2: still go around there.

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Speaker 1: I still go there even now when I want to.

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Speaker 2: I want to. I want to see the real thing happening.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you get it, like you said, you go there,

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Speaker 2: go the good meal, right and and uh not only

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Speaker 2: spiritual food, but you get some physical food, you know,

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Speaker 2: and uh wow. And so I always keep it on

339
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Speaker 2: on in mind.

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Speaker 4: You know your partnership with uh brother Leon Huff, when

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Speaker 4: did that?

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Speaker 2: Uh uh? That was that was really the key to

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Speaker 2: the whole thing. There used to be the Schubert Theater

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Speaker 2: on Broad Streuss And and Huff and I we were

345
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Speaker 2: working in the same building. I was working on the

346
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Speaker 2: sixth floor and Huff was working on the fourth floor.

347
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Speaker 2: I was working with a guy named Jerry Ross who

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Speaker 2: had a label the Dream Lovers. I don't know if

349
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 2: you remember them. When we get married, and all those

350
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Speaker 2: songs like that. And uh, and Huff was working with

351
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Speaker 2: Maderra and associates. They had they had Bunny Siegler, he

352
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 2: was working with them, and you had Lynn Barry who

353
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Speaker 2: did one, two three at they were working with Leslie Gore.

354
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Speaker 2: I mean, so me and me and me and Huff

355
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Speaker 2: just met up one day coming in that building and uh,

356
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Speaker 2: and we started talking because it wasn't that many African

357
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Speaker 2: Americans in that building.

358
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Speaker 4: So was it kind of like a real building for Philadelphia.

359
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Speaker 2: There you go, the same thing, but much much smaller

360
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Speaker 2: than the Brill Building, you know what I mean. And

361
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Speaker 2: so we was able to to meet up and talk

362
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Speaker 2: a little bit about what we wanted to do, you know,

363
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,959
Speaker 2: with our dreams and aspirations were. And so I went

364
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 2: over his eye. I said, I'm gonna come over your house.

365
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 2: He lived in Camden. So I went over his house

366
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Speaker 2: one day and we started writing songs. It was it

367
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 2: was just like me meeting Tommy Bell. Me enough must

368
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 2: have wrote maybe about six seven songs, you know, and uh.

369
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Speaker 2: From that point on, the Huff got in the band

370
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Speaker 2: the day. That's what made it really us gel even

371
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Speaker 2: closer because we would be arsing all the time and

372
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Speaker 2: the key to the Romeos was that the Romeos was

373
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Speaker 2: a band that we used to take songs that were

374
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Speaker 2: already out that were very popular, like Safer they keep

375
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 2: on Pushing, like Curtis Mayfield and people like that. We

376
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 2: would take their songs and rearrange them. We do a

377
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,360
Speaker 2: lot of medals we do. People be familiar with the songs,

378
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 2: but they would be different. So and huff Is he's

379
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: a singer, Roland was a singer, Tommy was a singer.

380
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: I could sing a little bit. So we used to

381
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 2: do like the high Lows.

382
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: Oh wow, we were like yeah, like like take six.

383
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 2: We used to do that kind of music too, you know.

384
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: And I really liked that better than anything, you know,

385
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 1: when we all sang together, because I never really did

386
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 1: like being on stage myself, not by.

387
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 2: Myself, you know. I never did Strength and Numbers, Strength

388
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: and Numbers. It was beautiful, you know.

389
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 1: So, so do you know the first song that you

390
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: charted on an artist pre Philly International, pre fully International,

391
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: the first hit that we had before International?

392
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 4: What was the label seemed like in Philly, Like, I know,

393
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 4: There's Lost Night.

394
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 2: It was a lot of them, Yeah, there was a

395
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 2: lot of them. It was Chancellor there was CAMEO Parkway

396
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 2: and I.

397
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 1: Did that like record for all these labels, although I

398
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: have a collection of like fifty labels, all with different

399
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: unbelievable and of the Andrew I was a fan of

400
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: you Can I knew him, Yeah, unbelievable he was. His

401
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: voice was like unbelievable.

402
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 2: Thank you.

403
00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 4: So how how was it that we had like over twenty.

404
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 1: Labels in Philadelphia and then suddenly they just started to

405
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: dissolve one by one.

406
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 2: The industry changed, Okay, industry change, it's like it's changing now.

407
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: The industry changed then because it went from independent distributors

408
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 2: to the corporations taken over. Say, for example, you would

409
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: have I would say in Philadelphia, they were about let's

410
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: say fifteen distributors in Philadelphia, and those distributors might might

411
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 2: be Rosen's was a distributor on North broad Street and

412
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 2: he would sell he would distribute maybe Mercury Records, ARSCA Records,

413
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 2: and maybe Epic. Then you'd have William's distribution. They would

414
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 2: have four or five other labels. Now, the thing of

415
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: it is is that it got down to the point

416
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: where where the industry became more consolidated, like a Chips

417
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 2: Chippets had Motown, it had Scepter, it had had all

418
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 2: these labels, you know, and you would you would make

419
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: a record. We made records, and uh, it was much

420
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 2: easier in those days for us because you make a record,

421
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: you go get Chippets to distribute it for you and

422
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 2: you get it was airplay was the whole thing. You

423
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 2: got to get your record on the radio. Somebody's got

424
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 2: to play it in order for people to want it.

425
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 2: And and so the whole industry changed when the CBS's,

426
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 2: the Warner Brothers and all of these major corporations started

427
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: to consolidate and they would buy all of these little

428
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 2: labels and put them all together. Then Warner Brothers became

429
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: a distributor themselves. Oh okay, Columbia Records became a distributor themselves.

430
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 2: And so once they became distributors, they were able to

431
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 2: take guys like Gambling Houff because we were independent. In fact,

432
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 2: it was a good thing and a bad thing because

433
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 2: they became your competition. Now you know, the major companies.

434
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: But what we were able to do is to survive

435
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:36,239
Speaker 2: because we became a creative company and the marriage that

436
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: we needed was and that we searched for was an

437
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: administrator who could collect whatever royalties, whatever money that was

438
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 2: due from all over the world because it's a worldwide industry,

439
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 2: so you got to be collect money from from Philippines

440
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: and Brazil, every place you can think of.

441
00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, how familiar are you with the Harvard Report, which

442
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: I believe that the original Harvard Report was drafted in

443
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, of.

444
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 2: Which I guess it was stated that.

445
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: For I don't know if the point was that for

446
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: major labels to survive or for black music to survive,

447
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: but basically the idea of a major label adopting that's

448
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: what we were, a smaller black label.

449
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what Billa International was.

450
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: So was it someone who because by that point in

451
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: seventy two, even though there was there was backstabbers and

452
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: like things were starting to heat up. But who was

453
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: the person that you know who was inspired to write

454
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: the Harvard Report that really argued for you guys to

455
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: have a deal with Clive Davis or he read this

456
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: Harvard Report.

457
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 4: And it's like, you know, you're right, I should do this.

458
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: I think they sponsored it. Oh, a lot of the

459
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: record companies sponsored it because we were there at CBS,

460
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: like nineteen sixty nine seventy is when we was making

461
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 2: our deal, and it was kind of like it shadowed

462
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 2: what we were doing with CBS, because there was a

463
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: time when we would do albums and we would have

464
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 2: album covers and we would put the like an artist

465
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 2: like Jerry Butler or somebody like that on the front cover,

466
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 2: and their sales department was saying, now, we can't sell it.

467
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: They can't sell it because it was a black face

468
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: on it. Race Records, Race Records, this is where they

469
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: were coming from. And so when we got into it,

470
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: it was a little more music became a little more

471
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 2: of a protests instrument, you know, and the industry just

472
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 2: opened up. It opened up wide. Like in Texas, there

473
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 2: was a rack job. At the rack job as a

474
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 2: guy who's got a warehouse and he'll buy one hundred

475
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: thousand albums and distributed them himself. But you'll see him

476
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 2: this guy's name, his name was Lieberman, and he wouldn't

477
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: really sell that many albums black albums in the beginning,

478
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: but radio changed from AM to FM had reached more people.

479
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: The whole marketplace just opened up. So a Lieberman, like

480
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 2: an earth Wind and Fire album, these albums were not

481
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: just hit R and B albums. These were hit pop,

482
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: everything else you can think of. You can see it

483
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: today in your commercials and everything. They're using that music

484
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: because that music crosses all those generations and and and

485
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: so I think I think that's what really had the

486
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 2: industry rolling, is that the times were changing.

487
00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: Knowing that you guys initially went to I met Er

488
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: Uh and Wexler at Atlantic first Uh for Philly International.

489
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 2: Have you guys spoken to them since?

490
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: Have they expressed any regret on not not taking the deal?

491
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: Well, you know, all of them are gone. I'm and

492
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 2: Jerry Wexler and Uh next you way, I think they

493
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: chose to work with Stax rather.

494
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: Than us, and that wasn't have been. That wasn't a

495
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: bad move. I mean Sax, but Stax was not like

496
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: Philly International. I worked with them a few times, you know.

497
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's definitely some sound.

498
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: Archie Bell, Yeah, Wilson record, Don't let Degree Res Fool?

499
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a that was a echo of a session.

500
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: Didn't the Romeos put a record out on that co?

501
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 2: There you go? You know what I mean? It's hard

502
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: to find the right girl. And yeah, eight days a

503
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: week a week, eight days a week. That was before

504
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: the Beatles do, by the.

505
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: Way, So it should be noted that what you really

506
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: brought to the game of music is just a level

507
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: of sheen and cleanness that was right for FM radio

508
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: at the time. It wasn't It wasn't gut bucket back

509
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: porch sounding, which I love that sound too, But this

510
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: is definitely, you know, in the era of I know

511
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: there's there's always a debate in the era, in the

512
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: era of who holds the crown As far as I

513
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: know that Isaac Hayes started working with orchestration and Barry

514
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: White as well, But what was it about the sound

515
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: of less orchestras that told you this is what we

516
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: need in our music.

517
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: During that time, Tommy Bell was he was evolving to

518
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 2: a greater ranger, you know. He loved Burke Backack by

519
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: the way, you know, and Bobby Martin. It just seemed

520
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: like everybody wanted to all of the rangers. They wanted

521
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: to work with violent orchestrations. Let me put it like that.

522
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 2: It's so much different from what it is today today.

523
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: I guess the fewer the instruments, the better it is. Well,

524
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 2: you do get a better presence when you have fewer instruments,

525
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: you know. But but that's I think that's just one

526
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 2: of the simple way to say it is that that's

527
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 2: what we heard in the music. You know.

528
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: Oh, I was gonna say yeah, because when you guys

529
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: are cutting a basic track, the strings aren't done yet.

530
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: So how do you how hard is it for you

531
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: to have faith that?

532
00:32:54,480 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: All? Right? Great example, something as as bare as the Ojays.

533
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: How can you Call Me Brother?

534
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is a very basic rhythm track but really

535
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: depends on the horn orchestration of that sort of thing.

536
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,479
Speaker 1: So is it that you have that much faith in

537
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: Bobby or Norman Harris was also a good arranged for

538
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: you guys as well, that you just like, I know,

539
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: once I feed them this, then they're gonna really put

540
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: the impact.

541
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: You know. What we would do as we take a

542
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: concept player, we get a small cossette of the session

543
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 2: with the rhythm and the voices on it, and I'd

544
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: sit down with a Huff, would sit down with Bobby

545
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: Martin and we would hum parts to them. This is

546
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,239
Speaker 2: what we want the trumpets to play, this is what

547
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 2: we want the trombones to play, this is what we

548
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: want the strings to play. And then and believe it

549
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 2: or not, I'm gonna tell you something. Even today, I

550
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: can still remember all those arrangements in my head. I mean,

551
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 2: it's like the brainwashed me almost. You know, you can

552
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 2: still hear it all. And it was unbelievable. Plus two,

553
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 2: if if you listen to the tracks, a lot of

554
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 2: the stuff happens when you write the song. The arrangement

555
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 2: is in the song, you know. And so where Huff

556
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 2: used to play on every session, and between him and

557
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: myself and Tom Bell, and like you said, Norman Harris,

558
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 2: Norman Harris, he did an excellent job because he couldn't

559
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 2: even arrange at first. You're talking about guys who couldn't

560
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: even write music when we first started. Now these guys

561
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: are between Rolling and Bobby Martin. They probably taught all

562
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: of those guys how to write and arrange music. And

563
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 2: also Vince Montana. Oh yeah, it was great.

564
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: But these are sixty pieces, right, we read sixty pieces.

565
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 2: We would have at least eight or nine rhythm people.

566
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: We would have.

567
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: I'd say at least ten between trumpets, horns and brass.

568
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: But see we would doubles things so it would sound sneaky.

569
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,479
Speaker 2: I thought it was super time recorded No, we would

570
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 2: double stuff and triple stuff at that at sometimes to

571
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: really get that fullness. Because you know, you mentioned something

572
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: a moment ago when the industry moved from mono to stereo,

573
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 2: was a big difference. When it moved from AM to film,

574
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 2: it was a big change because you got to look

575
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 2: at the mixing process became totally different. Joe Jarja was

576
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 2: an excellent engineer.

577
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: I was going to say, talk about Joe Tarcia and

578
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: how uh did you totally trust your mixing in his hands?

579
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 1: Was it a thing where you guys had to micromanage

580
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: and be over his shoulders or he knew exactly what

581
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: to do.

582
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 2: We had to be there withinning. We had to be

583
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 2: there with him because you know what, sometimes we would

584
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 2: mix him toil one two three o'clock in the morning.

585
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 2: Right the next day, I come in and Joe don

586
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: did something to it during the night.

587
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: M M.

588
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: I said, Joe, why did you pull that piano down

589
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 2: like that? He said, but you can hear that because

590
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: you can hear stuff when it means something to you, right, Okay?

591
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: And so Joe was he was excellent man.

592
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: He was.

593
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 2: He's a good he was a good team player. We

594
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: had a great team. That's that's what happened with us.

595
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 6: Speaking of the team, I was going to ask you

596
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 6: because we were talking about this before we got we

597
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 6: started recording about Larry Gold since we're in the house

598
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 6: that he built. He's in the back somewhere. But I

599
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 6: was trying to figure out, so back in these days,

600
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 6: was he just like a session player, because now, of

601
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 6: course he's a string ranger.

602
00:36:59,080 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 2: Oh, he's great.

603
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: But he was on all the sessions, him and and

604
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 1: Don Rinaldo and uh, A lot of the guys from

605
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: the old Uptown Theater were part.

606
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 2: Of our band.

607
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,479
Speaker 4: So the Uptown Theater had a house orchestra, house band.

608
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Sam Reid, really Sam Reid was was the

609
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 2: house band and he had. Most of those guys have

610
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: passed now, but but the Uptown was I used to

611
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 2: go get chicken sandwiches for them guys over at Pearls,

612
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: you know, and the Uptown Theater was that was a

613
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 2: nest too for some great, great artists. You don't have

614
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 2: places like the Uptown and places like that anymore to

615
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 2: to develop new young people, you know, to give them

616
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 2: a chance to uh some reasonable price to get in

617
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 2: a place or whatever.

618
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 6: You know, is that what you plan on doing a

619
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 6: mirror when you fix up the Uptown, you're gonna bring

620
00:37:58,360 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 6: it back.

621
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 4: To that put me on the spot, sure, like yeah.

622
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 6: I didn't even know if he knew that you was.

623
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: I was really no, it's a dream of mind to

624
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: bring it back. You know. We were talking to some

625
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: people the other day, man Khalif, when they were talking

626
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 2: about the Uptown you know, doing something then so we

627
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 2: have to like it's it's too much history there, like, yeah,

628
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 2: the Apollo.

629
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: Is still thriving in DC theater. Howard Theaters is coming back.

630
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 2: You know what you need to though with the Uptown

631
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: money the same money you need. You need the same

632
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: thing that Apollo as. You need somebody to underwrite it

633
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 2: like a Coca Cola. I think it takes care of

634
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 2: apollow and it's not a roo.

635
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need to know more billionaires. That's Ron Perelman.

636
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: Is that the guy from Philly you're talking about? Ron

637
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: Perlmans from Proman's a very weird billionaire.

638
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 6: He owns like he was a Revlon wasn't he too?

639
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he has a lot of companies. But things

640
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 2: you don't think about.

641
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: Like you know, like person the person that that makes

642
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: cotton balls or or Q tips or.

643
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 2: That's a good one.

644
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 1: Rubber band companies like things that you don't think that

645
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: people everything. A guy that owns duct tape, like.

646
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 2: That's the type of business that ron.

647
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: Right there. Yeah. So the the sound, I've always been

648
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: curious about the sound of Philadelphia because along with that sophistication,

649
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: you know, I would say that, you know, part of

650
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: the part of the charm of Motown was like it

651
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: was it was part church uh done by jazz musicians

652
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: who thought they were above playing pop music or whatever.

653
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: But and with stacks their sound was all the way

654
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: you know, look, but yet just the sound, were you

655
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: giving your input as far as like you wanted these

656
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: drums to sound dead? Only bring this up because one

657
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 1: I mean, like what my first five six records at Sigma,

658
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: And one day Joe Tarcia is in the hallway and

659
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: he knew how I was struggling with a drum part

660
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: and I couldn't get it right, like I was wasting

661
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: all this duct tape on my snare or whatever.

662
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 4: And he says, say, hang on, I'll be right back,

663
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 4: and he runs upstairs.

664
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: He comes down with this blue blanket and he's like,

665
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 1: this is the blue blanket that I would put it

666
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: on top of, you know, on on top of Earl's

667
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: drums and everything whatever, and he's like, this is the

668
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: sound you're looking for, And he like went to the

669
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: board and did us a solid in ten minutes and

670
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: I got the sound I wanted.

671
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 4: But it was so radical to see it at the time.

672
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: Was it was it how did you guys construct this sound?

673
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: Like it's it's such a like the drums are dead,

674
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: but it's more live and plus with Earl Young being

675
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: the proprietor of disco, like, how how did you guys

676
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: discover Was it just accidentally discovering like, oh, people like

677
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: dancing to this type of music?

678
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: And you know, I used to always say, like the drums,

679
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 2: there's two parts to the drums. It's the bass drum.

680
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 2: That bass drum is very important, and also the snare

681
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 2: and the symbols and and so forth, and the sock symbol.

682
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: That sock symbol sound that we came up with that

683
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 2: come from the House of prayer. That's like that's like yeah, yeah,

684
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 2: like tambourines, you know what I mean. So it was

685
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 2: a mix between all of that, you know, and we

686
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: did it so much the musicians say, man, please, let's

687
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 2: don't play that no more. You gotta play it because

688
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 2: that's what that's keeping the food on. Yeah, keep it going.

689
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: And then uh and then really the drums and the

690
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 2: bass was like a pair, you know that basse the

691
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 2: bass and the bass drum that they walk together.

692
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,959
Speaker 1: One one question I always wanted to know when you're

693
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:19,399
Speaker 1: doing basic cutting tracks for ballots. Let's say, okay, let's

694
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: say Harold Melvin and Blue Notes be for Real?

695
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, where.

696
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: For you hip hop fans?

697
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 2: The song that ghost Face He uses to argue, oh wow,

698
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 2: not Wildflower?

699
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 4: No, no, well he uses be for Real with can

700
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 4: I talk to you like the Teddy?

701
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah. My whole point is that it is are

702
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: you guys saying that? Okay? We know that we want

703
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: Teddy to have two minutes and forty seven seconds of

704
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: dialogue right before the first core starts, Like, how do

705
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:59,479
Speaker 1: you guys map out without without Teddy and the group

706
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: being there to have a compelling acting performance, you know

707
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: the part of the song when the song's over, and

708
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: then you got to talk to.

709
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 2: Your trash Oh baby, you know I need you? And

710
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 2: this goes on.

711
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: But the thing is is that the arrangement is so perfectly,

712
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 1: it's so timed that I always wondered, do you map

713
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: ahead of time, like, okay, well Teddy's going to talk

714
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: for two minutes and forty seven seconds and then is

715
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: he going on his own?

716
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 2: Are you writing out his dialogue? When what happens with

717
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 2: those kind of things is that we had a lot

718
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: of rehearsals before these artists go into the studio. We

719
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 2: would rehearse I mean with the Ojays off and I

720
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 2: used to rehearse them days really days before we go

721
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: into the studio. You know, we cut the tracks and

722
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 2: then we rehearse them again with the track because it'd

723
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: be different. It's one thing rehears them on the piano,

724
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 2: you know, with me, and but then when you cut

725
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 2: the track, it's totally different. You got different figures and everything.

726
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 2: But like I think, I think the rehearsals were the

727
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: key to everything that we did.

728
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 1: You know, So for like Sunshine OJ's which is ten minutes,

729
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: you're saying that even in rehearsal, Eddie LeVert is.

730
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 2: Going balls to the wall that hard with his at libs. No,

731
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 2: there's a certain part of it that the artist basically

732
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: It's like Bunnie Sigler wrote Sunshine Okay on and he

733
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 2: helped the produce it. He and what's the other guy

734
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 2: that was with him, Phil Hurt I think Phil's name was.

735
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: And so they did rehearse the ojys because the OJ's

736
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,479
Speaker 2: used to come in Philadelphia to record, and they would

737
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,959
Speaker 2: stay here for a month, okay, for a whole month.

738
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 2: The first week we would do nothing but send them

739
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: around to each little room. We had rooms, and Fat

740
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 2: and White Ad had a room. Bunnie Sliger, Phil, I

741
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 2: mean Sherman Marshall who wrote for Think Came Youth with

742
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: Dion Warick and all that, right, and so everybody had

743
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 2: their own rooms. So Huff and I would have about

744
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 2: eighty nine songs for him, Bunny Siegler would have five

745
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 2: or six songs for him, and then they we put

746
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 2: them all on the cassette tape and then we listened

747
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 2: to him and figure out which ones we were going

748
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: to cut. That would be the second phase, and once

749
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: we start cutting the tracks, it could be fifteen sixteen

750
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:37,240
Speaker 2: tracks that we cut all total. And the ojs.

751
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: Say, for example, like a song like I Love music right,

752
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: it took all night to get those background parts together,

753
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: no prosals all night.

754
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was a whole different thing. And the editing

755
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 2: aspect of all this stuff here was just crazy because

756
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 2: you got cutting tape all over the floor, you know.

757
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 2: So so huff and he played the keyboards, and the

758
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 2: keyboards was essential to finding out how many bars.

759
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,919
Speaker 1: I mean we talk about bar. We weren't really counting.

760
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 2: Bars and stuff like that, you know, and and rehearsing

761
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,959
Speaker 2: like tells me now he said, Man, my back hurts.

762
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 2: I said, I guess so E've been rocking on that

763
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: piano years. No, we had we had a great team

764
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 2: of people working together. And I think that you know,

765
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 2: when you got people like like Dexter when you played me,

766
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 2: I mean, Dexter is to me, I thought he was

767
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: like Quincy Jones, to be honest with you, you know, and

768
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: I used to always tell him, I said, you know,

769
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: you should go out and get with Quincy Jones because

770
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 2: this guy had that kind of talent in my view,

771
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 2: you know.

772
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 6: So in twenty nineteen, the kids no pop Linzel.

773
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is wonderful, Yes, it is. He used to be.

774
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 2: He used to be walking around the floor all the time,

775
00:46:58,760 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 2: which is great.

776
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 5: You know, between you and Huff you mentioned that he

777
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 5: would be uh, you know on the piano. Were you

778
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 5: more of like the lyric writer or did you lyrics

779
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 5: write music as well?

780
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 2: No, I really didn't. Look I basically was lyrics, you know,

781
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 2: and concepts and and we write lyrics sometimes too. And

782
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: I played like me and Missus Jones and stuff like that.

783
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: I got I got about I got about six chords,

784
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 2: a few chords on the guitar.

785
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: And then so they come with the music verson and

786
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,919
Speaker 1: bring it to you or you're there at the same time.

787
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: And no, when you when you say, say, for example

788
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: and Fat and White there, who were how did they

789
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 2: work together? They were? They were just like me and Huff.

790
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 2: They were excellent.

791
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: You know.

792
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 2: They had Victor Carlstaffen that worked with them. He was

793
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: a keyboard player and so and then you had Tom

794
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 2: Bell and Linda Creed. Linda Creed was an unbelievable lyricist,

795
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: you know, to be bet you by golly while all

796
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: that stuff and uh, people make the world go around,

797
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: how were you Okay?

798
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,919
Speaker 1: So of course a majority of the stuff is done

799
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: under the Philly International umbrella, right, but for some of

800
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 1: those projects that wanted that Philly sound Eddie Kendricks, he's

801
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: a friend or or then Kim you down work in

802
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,879
Speaker 1: the Spinners or even the Spinners themselves, Like how were

803
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 1: you able to where they contractually bound to you guys

804
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: first and you gained permission to Okay.

805
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: You know what happened with that. Just take the Spinners

806
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 2: for example, and tom Bell. Tom Bell was like an

807
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 2: independent producer. They had an independent production because there were

808
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: people like the Spinners, dayn Warick, Johnny Mathis.

809
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: And all these people. The music was you, I mean,

810
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 1: was it associated with you or was it?

811
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were all working together because where we all

812
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:01,240
Speaker 2: linked up at wasn't publishing see with the six three,

813
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 2: mighty three, mighty three twenty three, Yeah we're publishing. And

814
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 2: also too with with the cross pollination of of mcfatt

815
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 2: and white Hair working with Tommy and it was different,

816
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: different people all working together. But when Tom Bell brings

817
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 2: in a Johnny Mathis to take because most of the

818
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 2: songs he did with Johnny Mathis have been recorded before.

819
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: That we cut before. So it was a new expansion

820
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: for us.

821
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 2: And and that's pretty because Huff and I did we

822
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 2: didn't really do a lot of outside production things with

823
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 2: people on different labels. Earlier in the game, we did,

824
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 2: you know, like Archie Bell and Wilson Piccott what you mentioned,

825
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 2: which was fun. But after we got to a certain point,

826
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 2: our whole thing was to build Philly International, because what

827
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 2: happened with that would be is more of a First

828
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 2: of all, we had a strong association with CBS, and

829
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 2: we were strong as anybody with the Internet national side

830
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 2: of the industry. And then I would think that that

831
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 2: we had the same the same music. We had a

832
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: great team in Philly and a great team in New York.

833
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 2: Ronald Luxemburg and Clive Davis and all these people, you know,

834
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 2: we had. We had a good run. For the life

835
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 2: of me. Can you please answer this question? Go ahead?

836
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 5: Why why why did you guys not call T S

837
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 5: O P.

838
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 2: Soul train?

839
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:39,760
Speaker 4: Now you could have just called the song soul trained.

840
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 2: Now let me tell you what happened. What happened was John, Yeah, doctor,

841
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 2: you've seen that already. I haven't seen it, but I

842
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 2: think I know where you're going with the store doctor

843
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 2: is I told Don, I said, Don, I said, we're

844
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 2: gonna call this soul trained thing. He said, Nah, I

845
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 2: want to keep soul trained. Sad separate what I said.

846
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: I said, you can't do that, you know, no, we

847
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 2: wanted to call it Soul Trained, but you just said right.

848
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 2: So then what happened when it became such a monster

849
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 2: a monster, monster monster. It was number one all.

850
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: Over the world.

851
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 2: It was number one everywhere. And the funny part about

852
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 2: it is we called it the soul We called it

853
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: the Sound of Philadelphia, and then parenthesis, it was the

854
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 2: Soul Trained theme. But he didn't want it to be

855
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 2: the Soul Trained.

856
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: Or whatever, you know, just in case he didn't.

857
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 2: But you know, he actually really said that, and they

858
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 2: did an interview with him somewhere and he said that

859
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 2: was the dumbest movie ever made. But he was good people. Man,

860
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 2: We could you talk about a vehicle for our music?

861
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: And I used to talk to him every week. Every

862
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 2: week he said, Okay, we're gonna send out this week,

863
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So we would always have

864
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: a place on this show, and that was pretty much

865
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 2: the it's show for for that particular time. I mean,

866
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 2: Soul Train was was unbelievable.

867
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 6: And weren't we just watching some footage where he was

868
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 6: actually an advocate for Black Music Month as well. So

869
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 6: y'all were all in.

870
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: Yah, yeah, yeah, we were. We were real good friends.

871
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Black Music Month. That was Deana, that was yeah.

872
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 6: She was showing us the footage and he was testifying

873
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 6: the Congress on his way somewhere Black Music Month.

874
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna I always present this in the worst

875
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: possible scenario. Go ahead.

876
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 4: So I'm not going to do gun to your head

877
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 4: as I normally do.

878
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: What is that? No?

879
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 4: No, I always give you the ultimatum, go ahead.

880
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: Okay.

881
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 2: So between.

882
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: Eddie Livert, I'm trying I'm trying to I'm trying to

883
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: figure out your your top.

884
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 4: Five starting squad.

885
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: Good now in your powerhouse lead singing voice with Eddie

886
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: Livert and Teddy Pendergrad.

887
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 2: I don't know.

888
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: Was Kenny Ebol even in the picture. Was he after

889
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: a the Ebo joined the Blue Notes? Did he join

890
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: the Blue Notes after reaching for the was? Okay?

891
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 2: So you don't count, all right?

892
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 1: So who is your Who gets the advantage? Eddie Livert,

893
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: Teddy Pendergrass in your powerhouse lead singing voice?

894
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 2: This is an easy one for me, really seriously, Yeah, alright,

895
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:34,919
Speaker 2: you go first.

896
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 3: I say it's Eddie because Teddy is not available right now?

897
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I believe let's go let's go to history.

898
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 5: If we're talking history, I still give it to That

899
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 5: would be my pa.

900
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 3: Because I mean, that's Eddie LeVert bro I don't know.

901
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 3: I know Teddy, I've heard, I've heard Teddy Pendergrass singing.

902
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:59,240
Speaker 3: Teddy is a monster. But Eddie, oh my god, really

903
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 3: he just to me it was more so.

904
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: I don't know.

905
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 2: I thought that Eddie was more of a He could

906
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 2: just emote.

907
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 5: A song better and like he I don't know, I mean,

908
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 5: which is saying a lot compared to Teddy.

909
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 2: But yeah, mother will go to Eddie too. All right,

910
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 2: let me tell you what I.

911
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: Like all of them. But I'll tell you this, y'all

912
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: sleeping one guy. Wait, we're missing somebody you know. Let

913
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: me tell you it's Walter. But he's my my Yeah,

914
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: he's my assist. See is my best second. Lot of

915
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: people sleep.

916
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 2: Walk because see, Eddie is more of a performing artist.

917
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 2: When you think of Eddie, you think of a guy

918
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 2: that's hollering and screaming and on the floor singer.

919
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: But Walter.

920
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 2: I remember when I used to give Walter the lyrics.

921
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 2: He was excellent, man, he was exactly. He would just

922
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 2: the way I heard him singing it. He would sing it.

923
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: Wow.

924
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,959
Speaker 2: So but I know what you trying to get after

925
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 2: here you're talking about who favorites, but well who is

926
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 2: I still say Walter wins.

927
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 5: So when you would do when you would write the songs,

928
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 5: who would sing the demo or the reference tracks for

929
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 5: the men?

930
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 2: He was saying, really, yeah, So.

931
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: Was there any time y'all was like, you know what?

932
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 2: I might keep this? Did y'all keep for yourself?

933
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: I used to tell her that, me and him say

934
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: that now, I said, he, I said, we should have

935
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: kept that man, Missus Jones, we're being Vegas and me

936
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: and Missus Jones.

937
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 5: I wanted like, can we just the genius of that

938
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,320
Speaker 5: song because for years I didn't know it was about

939
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:51,919
Speaker 5: an affair, an affair we love affair? Yeah, we never

940
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,439
Speaker 5: we never thought that. But that's just all I knew

941
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 5: was that him and Missus Jones had something going on

942
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 5: going on.

943
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 6: They don't know it was wrong. So the wrong didn't.

944
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: Yeah it didn't.

945
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 2: It was, but it was much too strong.

946
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 1: So a lot of these songs from personal experience or

947
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: is it just hey, this is what's going on in

948
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: life and let me you know, I would think like, okay, people,

949
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: someone needs someone out there needs a song about this

950
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: specific situation, and I'm I'm the funnel that's going to

951
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 1: to bring it to life, Like how does this song

952
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: like that come to be?

953
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 2: And someone in your life is not looking at you

954
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 2: side right right? You mean me?

955
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 6: And Dean wasn't here before you. So there was a

956
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 6: couple of songs. She liked to claim, have you.

957
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 1: Ever written a song that someone's like that's about in

958
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,399
Speaker 1: a minute that sounds like us?

959
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:57,760
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you know what happened to me as a song,

960
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 2: right and half we before we would write songs and

961
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 2: we were sitting in the room just like this here

962
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 2: like we're doing it and talk and just talk and

963
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 2: laugh and talk about the fantasy. The fantasy was a

964
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 2: bar that he was right across the street from us,

965
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 2: and everybody used to be here, the fantasy, you know,

966
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 2: mister Loretta, and we used to go there to eat.

967
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 2: It was Jordan Spruce, unbelievable. I went there once and

968
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 2: more like, oh it was great. But anyway, so what

969
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 2: we would do is going we could go into fantasy, right,

970
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 2: and all you gotta do is sit there and you

971
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 2: see all these people and and you make up stuff,

972
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: you make up stories, make up just look at that

973
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 2: guy over there. Man, he's with that young girl. Man

974
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 2: that's not his wife or whatever, you know what I mean. Yeah,

975
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 2: And then we go back and sit at.

976
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 1: The piano and uh and come up with stories.

977
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 5: About how often did I mean, because at this time,

978
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 5: I mean, you got Eddie, you got Teddy. You know,

979
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 5: you have all these great singers, lou Rose I imagine,

980
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 5: had several unbelievable how.

981
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 2: Much of their lives.

982
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 5: Would you look at and say, like, damn, Teddy's going

983
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 5: through this, and then take it and write about it.

984
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, it was so much to

985
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 2: write about, so much to write about, and we were

986
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 2: having so much fun. And then, you know, you put

987
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 2: a formula together. Our formula was because at that time,

988
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 2: albums was the whole thing. Albums were selling. And so

989
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: you take an artist like Teddy Pendergrads who was so

990
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 2: versatile number one and as a matter of fact, I

991
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 2: heard one of his songs today, my latest greatest, and

992
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 2: and I was listening to us, said, wow, what a record,

993
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, just all of the parts

994
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 2: of it, you know what I mean?

995
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: So how many hours would it take for you to

996
00:58:54,960 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: know that you have a great Teddy performance? Like and

997
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: do you is there a code word? Like all right,

998
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: take them take it home. You don't what to do

999
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: because this guy.

1000
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 2: Teddy Penogras, we will rehearse him too. Wow, you weren't

1001
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 2: scared to waste the performance? No, well, rehearse him because See,

1002
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:20,919
Speaker 2: the theory we had was when you're recording, we don't

1003
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 2: want you standing in there reading on the paper. We

1004
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,919
Speaker 2: wanted to to come from inside. You gotta come from here,

1005
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 2: forget that. You gotta know these songs, you see, because

1006
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 2: it's better. That makes sense, But it's a better performance.

1007
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 2: And so Teddy Penogras was the worst guy, you know,

1008
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 2: because he'd always lose the papers, you know, But.

1009
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: You had to do it. You gotta learn it, Teddy.

1010
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 2: You got to learn these lyrics and you gotta go

1011
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 2: in there and you gotta sing them.

1012
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: Well. Okay, So speaking of the latest greatest, I'm trying

1013
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 1: to figure it is that the song that Teddy has

1014
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 1: went the most.

1015
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 2: That's true.

1016
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: Man, When how do you pull.

1017
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 2: That out of I didn't do that. He did that hisself,

1018
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 2: And there was no I mean I wanted more. That

1019
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 2: was that was unusual for him to even do that,

1020
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 2: but that song made him do that really, you know.

1021
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 2: And then the background was so sweet with Cecil Womack Ahow,

1022
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:32,919
Speaker 2: Leon Huff and myself. It was the three of us

1023
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 2: singing on that. It was Cecil Walmac I was saying,

1024
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 2: So we were still a Romeos. We're still background and

1025
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 2: sing and everything. So it was fun, you know what

1026
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 2: I mean to be in the studio and and sing background.

1027
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 2: We did background, uh for stylistics. We was on all

1028
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 2: of that stuff, and we was on if you don't

1029
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 2: know me by now? We sang the background on that.

1030
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 2: Really okay? You know what I always wanted.

1031
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 1: To know, could you name three acts that were close

1032
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: but no cigar acts that could have been on Philly

1033
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,959
Speaker 1: International or even produced by you, Like, did you guys

1034
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 1: have a chance to Always wanted to know if you

1035
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 1: guys ever had a chance to at least talk with

1036
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: the Dells. I know that Charles Stephanie was with him

1037
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 1: for a long time. Then when he passed away, they

1038
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: were without a producer and.

1039
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 2: They did Yeah, we did an album with him.

1040
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 1: When, uh, what year was that the Dells came I

1041
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: Salute you nineteen nine.

1042
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 2: I salute you. Yeah, what was it was Marvin Junior

1043
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 2: still in He's still in there, and you know what,

1044
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 2: we got stuff in on on uh in the can

1045
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 2: on them and because they did a version of Ave Maria,

1046
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 2: say what I'm telling no, We was just like in

1047
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 2: the studio and we were just all talking and everything,

1048
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden they started singing of

1049
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 2: the Maria and we had to we had to mic

1050
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 2: someone and everything, and man, I'll tell you it was beautiful.

1051
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 2: The Dell's doing Dells doing they could do that.

1052
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: There's they have a really weird version of You Are

1053
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: My Sunshine, which I never They did it a minor, right,

1054
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 1: Charles Stephanie and the Dells did like a minor version.

1055
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 1: It's like the darkest version, the most soulful, darkest version

1056
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 1: of You Are My Sunshine.

1057
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 2: He was talented, definitely excellent.

1058
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 4: So but what three acts did you have that you

1059
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 4: were close?

1060
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 1: But no Cigars like came to Philly and yeah, let's

1061
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: work together, and then it just didn't happen.

1062
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 2: Well, Earth went Fire is one. What this was years

1063
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 2: and years like when we were first getting started, you know,

1064
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 2: and we had a we had a deal with chest

1065
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 2: Checker and we had a management company called Huga h

1066
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 2: u g a huffing gamble. It's called Hugo Hugo Management.

1067
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:15,680
Speaker 2: And Earth went and fire. This is when they had

1068
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 2: the girl with them. I forget Justic cold Cleve and

1069
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 2: they came up and we were we were trying to

1070
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 2: get ourselves together, be honest with you, and they were

1071
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 2: trying to get theirselves together. But then they became monsters

1072
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 2: and we were at the same label they was with

1073
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 2: Columbia too, CBS. Well that's one, okay, one act like that.

1074
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 2: And I always wanted to cut the temptations, always tried

1075
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 2: to and they slipped right through my fingers temptations.

1076
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,040
Speaker 4: And was this doing the period that they went to

1077
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 4: Atlantic instead?

1078
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.

1079
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, we were bringing we we

1080
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 2: had David Ruff and Eddie Kin. We had them all

1081
01:03:55,480 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 2: back together again. We did and man just didn't work out.

1082
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 2: It didn't work out. And oldest be and oldest always

1083
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 2: remained good friends.

1084
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 1: You know.

1085
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 2: And then.

1086
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 6: Somebody told me to mention Bob Marley. It was almost

1087
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 6: Bob Marley.

1088
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 2: Yeah wait what yeah, we.

1089
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob Marley Records.

1090
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 2: Man, that would have been great. Bob was he was

1091
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 2: for destiny and purpose, you know what I mean. So

1092
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 2: he liked what we were doing with music and the

1093
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 2: messages that were because our whole thing was the message

1094
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 2: in the music.

1095
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 6: You know this post clean up the Ghetto, right, Yeah,

1096
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 6: all of.

1097
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 2: This was And Bob Marley he was like when I

1098
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 2: met with him, he said, man, we can bring people

1099
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 2: together from all over the world. I said, well, let's

1100
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 2: do it. Let's get it. And so his manager and

1101
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 2: lawyer at the time, I think they were trying to

1102
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 2: get a big money deal, you know what I mean.

1103
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 2: And we didn't have a whole lot of money.

1104
01:04:58,680 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 1: We had we.

1105
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 2: Had a lot of talent on the preside. Yeah, Bob

1106
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 2: would have been Then Bob got sick, he got sick.

1107
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 2: This was gotta be I don't know. I guess around

1108
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 2: seventy nine eighty Philly.

1109
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 1: No, he did city Lights in eighty one, eighty one

1110
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 1: city Lights appearance.

1111
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 2: It was at his last one. Yeah, it was like

1112
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 2: this around that time where I met with him, and

1113
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:27,959
Speaker 2: that could have been something. Oh, it would have been great.

1114
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:30,479
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, when we had the Black

1115
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 2: Music Association, we had Bob Marley and Stevie Wonder right

1116
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 2: here in Philadelphia. That was then Bob Marley and Stevie Wonder

1117
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 2: was the entertainment for the Black Music Associations. Wow, unbelievable.

1118
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, it's it's okay. So for some reason,

1119
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 1: are you guys familiar with.

1120
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 2: The seven? How many thousands of reels came from Sigma?

1121
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 7: You said seven?

1122
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, like over seven? Okay.

1123
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 1: So when Sigma imploded a lot of these reels were

1124
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:13,680
Speaker 1: just about to go in the trash like it was

1125
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: going to go to storage, and that didn't happen. So

1126
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 1: basically Drexel University wound up with thousands and thousands and

1127
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: thousands of reels. So there is a week that Stevie

1128
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: Wonders spent in Philadelphia.

1129
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 4: In which.

1130
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 1: I don't know the particular date on the call sheet,

1131
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 1: but he's at Sigma demoing what will Become I Love

1132
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 1: You Too Much?

1133
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 2: That was in square circles.

1134
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the real day.

1135
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 2: Was it seventy nine to eighty or something?

1136
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's there is about there's about two weeks

1137
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 1: worth of Philadelphia Sigma reels of Stevie Wonder recutting a

1138
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 1: Seeds of Star and like five or six other songs.

1139
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 1: But one song is actually with al Green him giving

1140
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 1: it to al Green. It's it's like a demo, but

1141
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 1: it's good enough for me to steal and deja hey listen,

1142
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 1: he used to be here all the time, Stevie. Really yeah.

1143
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: He would fall asleep on the couch.

1144
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 2: He would come to the studio, I mean, unannounced everything.

1145
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 2: Just it sounds like Stevie.

1146
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: It was great to show up, like.

1147
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 2: Stevie wonder not the first time.

1148
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 3: Can we rewind just a little bit because we kind

1149
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 3: of see yeah, yeah, we skipped big. We skipped a

1150
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,160
Speaker 3: couple of things, two of my favorite songs that have

1151
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:44,440
Speaker 3: the Gamble and Tough name on them.

1152
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 2: Right, he was completely glossed over.

1153
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 1: We didn't we just I'm trying to turn the car

1154
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 1: back to mind. I was about to go back to

1155
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 1: Richard Barrett so we can come o. I was going

1156
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 1: back to the Soul Survivors and Expressway to Your Heart,

1157
01:07:58,360 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 1: which that's right.

1158
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:03,600
Speaker 3: I remember I was probably like six or seven years

1159
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 3: old in my bedroom. Somehow that record had gotten into

1160
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 3: my room and it stayed on my little Fisher Price

1161
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 3: turntable for like three weeks. Like I played that record

1162
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 3: over and yeah, yeah, yeah, so but it was it

1163
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 3: was on Gamble Records, which predated Philadelphia International. So can

1164
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 3: you talk about that early label experience and what that

1165
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,480
Speaker 3: was like and the transition into Philly International.

1166
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:33,599
Speaker 2: Wow, Gamble Records was my partner. There was Benny Crash

1167
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 2: remember Crash Brother's clothing store. Yes, that was my partner.

1168
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:42,519
Speaker 2: What Benny kras that loud guy Crash Brothers. Isn't it

1169
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:45,799
Speaker 2: if you didn't buy your clothes Crash Brothers, you've been robbed?

1170
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 1: Yes?

1171
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 2: Wow, he's no New York he was.

1172
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:54,680
Speaker 1: Yes, he probably made too much. It's kind of like

1173
01:08:54,720 --> 01:09:00,719
Speaker 1: the he was a crazy, crazy crazy Okay, but Crash Brothers,

1174
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 1: Grass Brothers like, he was your partner, my partner.

1175
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 2: Benny said, if you got to go, go in the

1176
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 2: Crass Brother's suit, he was in a casket. Benny was great.

1177
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:17,679
Speaker 2: He taught me a lot man, he really did. And

1178
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 2: he loved music. He liked to sing himself. So one

1179
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 2: day I was in there, all of us used to

1180
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,519
Speaker 2: buy clothes, stage and stuff like that, and he said,

1181
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 2: you know, can even want to make a record. He said,

1182
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 2: could you and your band work with me? I said, yeah,

1183
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 2: we'll work with you. I said, well, I said, I

1184
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 2: got some groups that I'm working with I said, I

1185
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:39,719
Speaker 2: need you to help.

1186
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:40,840
Speaker 1: Me out with them.

1187
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 2: So we made a deal. He became my partner and

1188
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 2: the groups he had his songs was called his group

1189
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,600
Speaker 2: was called the Knights, and Arthur was the name of

1190
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 2: his group. And we cut that. It was good, and

1191
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 2: he had one song that Curtis Mayfield took what's called

1192
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 2: man old Man, Man, old Man. Have you been in

1193
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 2: the Spain? The young Jeezy sample?

1194
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:13,240
Speaker 1: There you go, he wrote, man o Man, Man, old Man.

1195
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 2: He wrote it unbelievable. I gotta bring it.

1196
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to do it, but I gotta read it.

1197
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 1: What is that crash that when someone drops a bomb?

1198
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 1: And I just got it?

1199
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:31,920
Speaker 4: A crash brothers man, He wrote, man o.

1200
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:33,559
Speaker 2: Man, Benny krash that's right.

1201
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 1: There's a key vital scene in Dead President's movie when

1202
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:39,440
Speaker 1: that comes on, of which.

1203
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 2: Does something I'm never ever going I got to tell

1204
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 2: his daughter and that's Benny krash Man.

1205
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:50,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh man, that's crazy.

1206
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Filly in the National was in coming, you know,

1207
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 2: So me and how we were working with the intruders.

1208
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:00,759
Speaker 1: Cowboys and girls, Boys and girls.

1209
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 2: I was going to bring up cowboys to girls. Always

1210
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 2: love my Mama.

1211
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 1: That was later much later. That was later, and let

1212
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 1: me think, Uh, we had a lot of little groups

1213
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,799
Speaker 1: music Makers music Makers United.

1214
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:18,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was another one that stayed in my room

1215
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 2: quite a bit too. We had the music Makers we

1216
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 2: also did. We did something else with them that I

1217
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 2: really like. It was instrumental. I think it was I'm

1218
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 2: Gonna make you Love Me that we did on them.

1219
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 2: But uh, I think that from that experience we had.

1220
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:39,520
Speaker 2: We had some girls from Camden called the Swans, the

1221
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 2: the Baby Dolls and Sammy Seven's everybody do the Crossfire.

1222
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 2: I mean, we we we were doing all kinds of stuff. Man,

1223
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 2: you're making me really think. My brain is going deep

1224
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:55,599
Speaker 2: in my head thinking of those days, you know, because

1225
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:57,559
Speaker 2: you had, like he was saying a moment ago, he

1226
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:00,640
Speaker 2: had so many record companies in Philly and it was

1227
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:02,760
Speaker 2: hard for me enough to get in there, you know what.

1228
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 1: I mean, Richard Barrett, I know who started the Three degrees?

1229
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 1: How did were you guys evolved at all involved it?

1230
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 1: Back when they were on I forget what label they

1231
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:20,880
Speaker 1: were on before they came to Philly International.

1232
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 2: I don't even know what label they were on back then.

1233
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 2: Let me think Swan Records. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Huff

1234
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:32,600
Speaker 2: was working with him then, Okay, Huff was working and

1235
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 2: I never worked with him until they came to Philly International.

1236
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 2: I love working with them because they were tremendous harmony

1237
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 2: they harmony was was really tight and Richard Richard was

1238
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 2: extremely talented. What was his role in the group? Was

1239
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 2: he their manager? Their manager and their I mean their conductor.

1240
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 2: I mean he was. He's the one that made him,

1241
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:01,439
Speaker 2: to be honest with you. They taught them everything you know,

1242
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 2: and they were very disciplined. In Three Degrees that that

1243
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:09,760
Speaker 2: that stage performers wasn't wasn't it was unbelievable.

1244
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 1: Who's whose idea was it? I guess it's no coincidence

1245
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:20,599
Speaker 1: of the of all the live records cut in London.

1246
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 1: I guess when Philly International went on tour, because I

1247
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 1: know the OJ's cut their album True and and and

1248
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 1: Billy Paul in the Three Degrees. So was it just

1249
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 1: like were they all at this one venue?

1250
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 2: This one all that?

1251
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 4: I never knew if it was like separate times.

1252
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 2: No, it made sense, got everything at one time and

1253
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 2: it was great. Okay, Billy Pool. I guess we should

1254
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:51,599
Speaker 2: also mentioned the Jackson I mean, that's accident Yeah.

1255
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:53,640
Speaker 5: I wanted to ask you just about your work with

1256
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 5: them because I read the interview once. I think it

1257
01:13:56,600 --> 01:14:00,760
Speaker 5: was you that recognized that they were ready to produce themselves,

1258
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:03,680
Speaker 5: and I just wanted to know what was it that

1259
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 5: you were One what were those sessions like just working

1260
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 5: with them?

1261
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 1: And two?

1262
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 5: Uh, how can you tell as a producer when someone

1263
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 5: is ready to produce themselves?

1264
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 2: Well, you can just feel it. You can feel like

1265
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 2: they got a pretty good sense of who they are.

1266
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 2: You know that Michael Jackson working with them. I used

1267
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 2: to ask him all the time. I said, you hear yourself.

1268
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:27,599
Speaker 2: So he used to go to the piano. He played

1269
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:32,920
Speaker 2: the piano a little bit and he said, well let

1270
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:37,480
Speaker 2: me try. Let me try something. When we went to

1271
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,679
Speaker 2: to overdub his voice, and that was the first time

1272
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 2: that I saw an artist double live voice, triple live voice.

1273
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:47,120
Speaker 2: He had all kinds of little tricks and stuff that

1274
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 2: he was doing to go yeah. I used to think

1275
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 2: that was one take.

1276
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 1: Sing that yeah.

1277
01:14:57,240 --> 01:14:59,719
Speaker 2: So he was he was showing me. I said, go ahead,

1278
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, that's true. I think him

1279
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 2: and Tito, be honest with you. Tito was the musician,

1280
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:10,439
Speaker 2: and so I think him and Tito was really really talented,

1281
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:14,879
Speaker 2: and the other guys like Jackie and and Marlon, and

1282
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:16,680
Speaker 2: you know, what I tried to do was bring it

1283
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:19,200
Speaker 2: out of them because they had been beat down so much.

1284
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 2: With Michael just became just such a giant, you know

1285
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:25,679
Speaker 2: what I mean that they were scared to say anything.

1286
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 2: Come on, Marlin was a tremendous dancer, still unbelievable. In fact,

1287
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:36,000
Speaker 2: I talked to him the other day, and they've been

1288
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:39,080
Speaker 2: through a lot. They've been through a lot, that group.

1289
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 1: And I'll say that my it's it's weird because, uh,

1290
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 1: Sony just re released the Jackson's Ain't Going Places, uh

1291
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:55,680
Speaker 1: like a month ago, Like, oh really going place? Is

1292
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 1: still a personal favorite of mine, I don't. I mean,

1293
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,760
Speaker 1: I just have sentimental attached into it because I was

1294
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 1: seven at the time and I used to see them.

1295
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 1: I never knew that Philly International was next to my school.

1296
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:11,320
Speaker 1: I went to perform an art school on Broad Street.

1297
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 1: Broad Street three thirteen. You guys were three or nine,

1298
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 1: three o nine, and never knew that how long were

1299
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 1: you guys at three or nine?

1300
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 2: Oh my god? We went to three o nine about

1301
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 2: what was it about? Nineteen seventy nineteen sixty nine seventy.

1302
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 2: Y'all were always there. We were across the street at

1303
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:37,400
Speaker 2: the Shooters Super on the sixth floor.

1304
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 6: Okay, can you tell the story how you had to

1305
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 6: have somebody else come in and look at the building?

1306
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:43,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

1307
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 2: What happened, Well, they wouldn't sell the building to us

1308
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:49,720
Speaker 2: at first, of course. So what we did is we

1309
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:53,920
Speaker 2: got a lawyer name was Eric Cromfell, got him to

1310
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 2: go to the bank and everything to make the settlement

1311
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:58,600
Speaker 2: and everything. And then when it got down to the

1312
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:01,400
Speaker 2: point where they needed us a sign, we've come over

1313
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:06,639
Speaker 2: and signed the papers. Because see they were yeah, because

1314
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:09,599
Speaker 2: that's exactly what it was too. They they looked at

1315
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:13,679
Speaker 2: what's hard even today, it's hard for for African American

1316
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 2: people to get building a building credit, you know. But

1317
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:20,680
Speaker 2: it was it was good move. It was a good Alan.

1318
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:23,000
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, Alan Klein was the owner

1319
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:26,960
Speaker 2: of the building. Yeah, Alan, Alan Klin, the guy who

1320
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:27,679
Speaker 2: had the Beatles.

1321
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, app co And even with your stature at that time,

1322
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:34,519
Speaker 1: they just felt like nope.

1323
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:38,160
Speaker 2: So I'm telling you, I mean what they did to

1324
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:41,400
Speaker 2: us was, uh, you got to get finance and we

1325
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 2: couldn't pay for the building. I wish, I wish we

1326
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:48,200
Speaker 2: could have, but you have to get mortgages. Because the

1327
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:52,000
Speaker 2: thing of it is, too is that that building. Uh,

1328
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 2: the tragedy of it is when we speak of that

1329
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 2: building is that there was an arson. The guy who

1330
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 2: who who put that place on fire? That was that

1331
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 2: was that was no way for that building to go.

1332
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:06,559
Speaker 2: That was terrible, you know.

1333
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, rest in peace? Three on nine.

1334
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:12,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a lot there, I'll tell you a

1335
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 2: whole lot.

1336
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 6: Now is it a parking lot?

1337
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 1: But no, Well it's about to be a hotel.

1338
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be. It's gonna be a condominiums in

1339
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:24,840
Speaker 2: uh in a hotel and no hotel all this time though.

1340
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 2: That's good.

1341
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:30,120
Speaker 6: Did you put the Jacksons through the same rehearsal situation

1342
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 6: that you put through the other.

1343
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:34,240
Speaker 2: Artists in exactly everybody?

1344
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: Everybody?

1345
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, and they were great? I mean and uh

1346
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 2: and they father man, this guy was. He was a

1347
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 2: wonderful dude. Man.

1348
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:45,800
Speaker 6: He that a lot.

1349
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:47,960
Speaker 2: Ye, No, he was. He's great.

1350
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:51,000
Speaker 3: Here's a random question about the Jackson's. Did you miss

1351
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:53,880
Speaker 3: Jermaine's presence? It would have been good if he was there.

1352
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:54,840
Speaker 3: Let me put it like that.

1353
01:18:55,439 --> 01:19:00,000
Speaker 2: He also came to Philly. There's four songs.

1354
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:05,599
Speaker 1: Songs. He also cuts some tracks at Sigma in nineteen

1355
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 1: seventy six. I don't know if it's with Tom Bell,

1356
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:13,400
Speaker 1: but there was a point where Jermaine Jackson two, Yes,

1357
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:30,759
Speaker 1: it's uh, what's good for the cancer? Norman Harris, Norman Harris.

1358
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:36,240
Speaker 2: It sounds like that, sounds just like it. So just

1359
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 2: help me understand.

1360
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:42,760
Speaker 1: So if someone comes into Sigma and leaves with a

1361
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 1: product that still has the gamble and huff DNA, like,

1362
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 1: you guys, don't wipe the board. You guys don't like

1363
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 1: you can't use our microphones or because even for that song,

1364
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:01,360
Speaker 1: which technically has nothing to do with gambled and.

1365
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 2: Huff, you can hear it. Yeah, so it's like, how

1366
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:07,599
Speaker 2: did you take the secret sauce?

1367
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:11,439
Speaker 1: But you know, but then like David Bowie came to Philly,

1368
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 1: his records sound like, so, how do you do you

1369
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 1: feel some sort of did you ever feel sort of

1370
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 1: way when an artist comes to Sigma and still uses

1371
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:28,439
Speaker 1: your board, you're mixing your your session, the rhythm section.

1372
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: Yes see that's what made it.

1373
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:32,640
Speaker 2: But you know what I used to think, you know,

1374
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 2: it's enough for everybody, You know what I mean, and

1375
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:37,680
Speaker 2: you know, that was a good hustle they had, you know,

1376
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:41,839
Speaker 2: Joe good hustle. It was. It was a good hustle

1377
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 2: because everybody wanted that sound. BB King was there and

1378
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 2: like David Bowie was there, and who else, Elton John

1379
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:52,680
Speaker 2: came over. But everybody was grabbing, trying to grab their

1380
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:53,759
Speaker 2: little piece or whatever.

1381
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:56,519
Speaker 1: But I never felt without coming to the water well

1382
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 1: because see the bottom line of it was it was

1383
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:03,559
Speaker 1: this is that it's not to try to make that

1384
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:07,080
Speaker 1: little bit of money from a session, is to make

1385
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 1: a classic product, because then you really got something. And

1386
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 1: I used to tell them, I said, you know what

1387
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,080
Speaker 1: I said, you can't get around it. You can't get

1388
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 1: around hard work, and you can't get around having a

1389
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:22,120
Speaker 1: great songs. And if you got if you just going

1390
01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 1: in there and you're just gonna throw some people together

1391
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:27,799
Speaker 1: and you're gonna do a record that it almost sounds

1392
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:32,040
Speaker 1: like what they've come in there for, you wasting the

1393
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:35,680
Speaker 1: whole thing. So because even and everybody was trying to

1394
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:39,559
Speaker 1: get their little piece. Everybody, everybody, if bands was itching

1395
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:40,599
Speaker 1: and they wanted to get money.

1396
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 2: They wanted to get money. Because I even told Tommy Bell,

1397
01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:48,160
Speaker 2: even with Elton John. It would have been great if

1398
01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 2: we could have all worked on Elton John together. You know,

1399
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:56,679
Speaker 2: but you know who knows who knows what would have happened?

1400
01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:57,760
Speaker 1: You know who?

1401
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:00,400
Speaker 6: I'm just gonna ask to any of those artists have

1402
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:03,840
Speaker 6: a circle back to you with no, not really, I mean,

1403
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 6: even with conversation about it.

1404
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:08,920
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even I wouldn't do nothing with him. I

1405
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 2: mean we had our hands full.

1406
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:13,719
Speaker 1: But believe me, but who decides the division of labor?

1407
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:21,400
Speaker 1: Like if if some artist has only the second week

1408
01:22:21,439 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 1: of April to come to Philly to do something and

1409
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:27,479
Speaker 1: you're not available, are you saying, okay, well take him

1410
01:22:27,479 --> 01:22:31,360
Speaker 1: to Dexter? Like are you the person that throws the

1411
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 1: ball and decides who goes where?

1412
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:36,640
Speaker 2: Or not? Really? I mean because we generally work it

1413
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:41,880
Speaker 2: out because the first part of the work is on us,

1414
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:46,479
Speaker 2: is on me and Huff and mcfad and Whitehead, Dexter

1415
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:50,439
Speaker 2: and Cynthia. Cynthia Biggs was great also too. She used

1416
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 2: to write with Dexter and Charlie Boy and Bruce Hall's.

1417
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:57,760
Speaker 2: You know, we had a little group that we work

1418
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:00,920
Speaker 2: with and we would the first thing that we would

1419
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:05,479
Speaker 2: have to do is get the songs do we have

1420
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:09,120
Speaker 2: the songs that we need before we bring these guys

1421
01:23:09,120 --> 01:23:12,360
Speaker 2: in here. And if we got the songs, and we

1422
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 2: all sit around and listening to the songs and we say,

1423
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:19,479
Speaker 2: well we got some songs, let's bring them. Then we

1424
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:23,639
Speaker 2: map out with their tour people like with the Old

1425
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 2: J's or our Melvin Blueenute whoever or Teddy say Okay,

1426
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:32,120
Speaker 2: we need them for ten days. Then they can go

1427
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:35,640
Speaker 2: away for a week and come back and give us

1428
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:40,720
Speaker 2: another ten days. And they would schedule and then the reschedule,

1429
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:44,800
Speaker 2: the release dates, photos for the album. Everything would be

1430
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:48,040
Speaker 2: be set up, be set up so that so that

1431
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 2: it's not really it's not an inconvenience to anybody. The

1432
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:54,920
Speaker 2: way we were recording.

1433
01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:57,719
Speaker 1: Why did you not why? But what was the inspiration

1434
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:01,799
Speaker 1: behind you doing? You would alway do these paragraphs of whatever.

1435
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:03,920
Speaker 1: The concept of the record was.

1436
01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:11,800
Speaker 2: Line of notes. Oh yeah, I forgot Yeah. I don't

1437
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 2: know why I started doing that, but I.

1438
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 4: Love that man. But it really got me obsessed with.

1439
01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:19,040
Speaker 1: Because you know what I used to write about what

1440
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:20,480
Speaker 1: the theme of the album.

1441
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:22,760
Speaker 2: Was, you know, you know, like would you name it?

1442
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 2: Sometimes the album ship a hoy and yeah, I used

1443
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:29,679
Speaker 2: to say stuff on it. Who was I signing shipp

1444
01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:32,880
Speaker 2: Ahoy to it? Yeah, he's got him over there. Where's

1445
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:35,120
Speaker 2: that album at I just signed it for it? Let

1446
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:35,519
Speaker 2: me see that.

1447
01:24:36,320 --> 01:24:38,639
Speaker 1: So with ship a Hoy your concept and they were

1448
01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:42,120
Speaker 1: with it because this is pre roots, like nobody was

1449
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 1: really dealing with the slave trade and.

1450
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:50,080
Speaker 2: Oh yeah this was something. Yeah yeah, ship Ahoy, Yeah

1451
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:53,559
Speaker 2: this was something. It was Yeah, this was something because

1452
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 2: you know what this is around the time of the

1453
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:00,200
Speaker 2: whole Alex Haley and the Roots and all that stuf. Elf,

1454
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:02,679
Speaker 2: what's going on? I said, there's no music about it,

1455
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:05,960
Speaker 2: you know. So we did this album, man, I got

1456
01:25:06,040 --> 01:25:08,720
Speaker 2: it's a it's a song that goes with this. We

1457
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:11,639
Speaker 2: never got a chance to uh to do.

1458
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:15,479
Speaker 1: Speaking of speaking of ship aboard, uh, I gotta know,

1459
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:20,280
Speaker 1: how did you guys wind up with Anthony Jackson who

1460
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 1: he used to play with Billy Paul that base.

1461
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 2: Famous baseline probably of all time. Wasn't great?

1462
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:28,280
Speaker 1: He was great?

1463
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:33,920
Speaker 2: Yes? He also Anthony told me he invented the five

1464
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:35,720
Speaker 2: string bass.

1465
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:37,080
Speaker 4: I didn't know that.

1466
01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:37,960
Speaker 2: Did he invent that?

1467
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:41,160
Speaker 1: Yes? He there was never a five string bass till

1468
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 1: he came along. And when he customized his bass he

1469
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:47,720
Speaker 1: I tell you one thing. He was great that day

1470
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:48,280
Speaker 1: he played.

1471
01:25:48,360 --> 01:25:52,280
Speaker 2: He played like I don't I'm telling you it was unbelievable.

1472
01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:55,360
Speaker 2: Did you have that baseline for for the Love of

1473
01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:56,360
Speaker 2: Money or was that?

1474
01:25:56,800 --> 01:25:56,880
Speaker 6: No?

1475
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:58,760
Speaker 1: He was that in his mind.

1476
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, we basically had the concept and he took

1477
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:07,559
Speaker 2: it and emphasized. I mean, he just he took it

1478
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:10,639
Speaker 2: to another level once you play that real quick intro.

1479
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:14,800
Speaker 7: So you said there was a song that goes with that?

1480
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:15,439
Speaker 2: What?

1481
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:19,120
Speaker 4: No, No, he didn't recorded.

1482
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 6: Yeah right, you said that y'all didn't record or y'all

1483
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:23,040
Speaker 6: didn't put it on the album.

1484
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 2: No, it's gotta be.

1485
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:25,600
Speaker 1: No.

1486
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:29,479
Speaker 2: On all of these albums there was the message. He

1487
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:31,120
Speaker 2: would write a paragraph.

1488
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:33,200
Speaker 1: You know. That's where.

1489
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:36,599
Speaker 6: Now I want to know what the paragraph?

1490
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 2: I want to I guess we had it on it.

1491
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:41,160
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure this was important to me.

1492
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:48,960
Speaker 1: It's the great Anthony Jackson on base y'all no echo

1493
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:52,120
Speaker 1: right there? You know this right, it's not from the

1494
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:55,840
Speaker 1: beginning again. That was that that Joe Tarcia, Oh that

1495
01:26:55,960 --> 01:26:58,599
Speaker 1: was Joseph told me you couldn't do it. I said, man,

1496
01:26:58,640 --> 01:26:59,240
Speaker 1: are you kidding?

1497
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:01,760
Speaker 2: Now?

1498
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:13,240
Speaker 1: Nowhere echo back? Oh?

1499
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:14,800
Speaker 3: Does it go back and forth? Throughout the whole song.

1500
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 3: I never noticed intro like I knew. I noticed it

1501
01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:20,920
Speaker 3: in the intro button, but only that first time.

1502
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:22,800
Speaker 2: You can tell me, say you can't do that?

1503
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:23,640
Speaker 1: I said, why not?

1504
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:32,960
Speaker 2: Why can't you put echo on a base? Can you? Can?

1505
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:35,960
Speaker 1: You speak upon Teddy at it at the height of

1506
01:27:36,040 --> 01:27:40,599
Speaker 1: his powers, and I don't think there's there's not much

1507
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:48,880
Speaker 1: emphasis on how powerful he was and where he was headed, uh,

1508
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 1: where he was headed.

1509
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:52,800
Speaker 2: In his career. But it's unbelievable.

1510
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:57,479
Speaker 1: And how how I mean starting as a drummer and

1511
01:27:57,560 --> 01:28:00,799
Speaker 1: howld Melvin the blue notes? Like how was that power

1512
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:05,640
Speaker 1: just contained inside of that unit before you eventually had

1513
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:07,719
Speaker 1: to bring it out like you always knew that voice

1514
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:09,000
Speaker 1: was there. Nope.

1515
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:12,960
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, my introduction to Teddy pinegress

1516
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:17,639
Speaker 2: I was out doing something and called me and upset

1517
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 2: Gamble because we were always telling Howard Melvin and he

1518
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:23,679
Speaker 2: needed a lead singer.

1519
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:27,559
Speaker 1: You know, how do he take that that he wasn't.

1520
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:29,759
Speaker 1: He's like Charlie Brown, not the star of his own.

1521
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:35,439
Speaker 2: But how how is a genius? I mean this man

1522
01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:37,760
Speaker 2: here he put he put that he could take all

1523
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:40,040
Speaker 2: of us and make us the blue notes. You know,

1524
01:28:40,400 --> 01:28:43,760
Speaker 2: that's the kind of gift he has. And I used

1525
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:45,680
Speaker 2: to tell him I was he was my friend number one,

1526
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:47,880
Speaker 2: and we're trying to get we're trying to make it.

1527
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 2: And so the key of it would be is that

1528
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:55,559
Speaker 2: he had a lot of competition out there, and so

1529
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:59,639
Speaker 2: to compete, Hal had a softer voice, a real smooth voice,

1530
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:03,559
Speaker 2: a nice voice. But you needed that voice that could

1531
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:06,360
Speaker 2: rock the house. Yeah, you needed a voice that could

1532
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:08,280
Speaker 2: rock the house. And so I've called me one day

1533
01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:10,720
Speaker 2: and said, man, said, how got a guy here that

1534
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:13,120
Speaker 2: plays the drums? He said, yeah, but you got to

1535
01:29:13,160 --> 01:29:15,400
Speaker 2: hit this guy. So by the time I got down

1536
01:29:15,479 --> 01:29:18,600
Speaker 2: there to the office and I heard him, I said, oh,

1537
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:20,360
Speaker 2: that's the guy we've been looking for.

1538
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:22,840
Speaker 1: How did you.

1539
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:27,280
Speaker 2: Break the news to Harold that how this guy should sing?

1540
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:27,800
Speaker 1: I miss you?

1541
01:29:29,080 --> 01:29:31,759
Speaker 4: Because we all thought that was Harold Milt, right.

1542
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:34,640
Speaker 2: I know it. That's where the problem came in at

1543
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:37,760
Speaker 2: is that you know that there was some kind of

1544
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:40,840
Speaker 2: Hald Melvin and the Blue Notes, and we had Al

1545
01:29:40,920 --> 01:29:45,080
Speaker 2: Melvin the Blue Notes featuring Teddy Pendergrass, and then we

1546
01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:47,680
Speaker 2: even changed it because how was really putting together a

1547
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:51,639
Speaker 2: fantastic show he had because it could have been Hal

1548
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:55,839
Speaker 2: Melvin and The Blue Notes featuring Teddy Pendergrass and Shine Page.

1549
01:29:56,760 --> 01:30:00,639
Speaker 4: What was Sharon Page before she was singing in the group.

1550
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 2: McFadden and white Head brought Sharon Page in. You know,

1551
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:08,200
Speaker 2: they knew her. She was from North Philly and she

1552
01:30:08,240 --> 01:30:11,320
Speaker 2: had well her voice is so sweet, man. I hope

1553
01:30:11,320 --> 01:30:15,400
Speaker 2: we can be together soon. That's great. And that was

1554
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:19,120
Speaker 2: a song that we did with Dusty Springfield, Oh wow,

1555
01:30:19,439 --> 01:30:22,120
Speaker 2: years ago, hope we can be together soon. And and

1556
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:29,200
Speaker 2: how Melvin took Sharon Page and rehearsed her. And when

1557
01:30:29,240 --> 01:30:31,000
Speaker 2: I listened to it, I said, wow, I said, this

1558
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:33,639
Speaker 2: is good. I said, but you know what I said,

1559
01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:37,280
Speaker 2: we got to put Teddy on here. So so it

1560
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:41,040
Speaker 2: was how Sharon Page and Teddy Pendergrass I put Teddy

1561
01:30:41,080 --> 01:30:43,880
Speaker 2: in on the end and right, yeah, which which really

1562
01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 2: made it made it to me, made it nice, you know.

1563
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:49,960
Speaker 1: And it was kind of hard to argue with success.

1564
01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:53,360
Speaker 1: But I know that that must have caused some sort

1565
01:30:53,400 --> 01:30:54,519
Speaker 1: of conflict with.

1566
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:56,559
Speaker 2: I didn't know. I didn't look at it like that.

1567
01:30:56,640 --> 01:31:00,240
Speaker 2: I looked at it because well, I'm telling I was

1568
01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:03,000
Speaker 2: telling him. I said, were trying to make it, you know,

1569
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:06,680
Speaker 2: and to me, you'd be like fooling yourself if you

1570
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 2: don't try to at least do the best that you

1571
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:09,400
Speaker 2: can do.

1572
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:11,839
Speaker 4: Did he try to attempt to sing these songs himself?

1573
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:13,880
Speaker 2: He did, He did have a part in him.

1574
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:15,360
Speaker 4: Oh, I was going to say, you have a version

1575
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 4: of I Miss You with Harold.

1576
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:19,280
Speaker 1: I miss you.

1577
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:23,160
Speaker 2: I mean, oh okay, I was like, I got here.

1578
01:31:23,240 --> 01:31:28,200
Speaker 2: I don't think it might be though, you know somewhere right, Okay, yeah,

1579
01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:33,559
Speaker 2: but no, that song was made for Teddy belly Gred.

1580
01:31:33,720 --> 01:31:36,120
Speaker 1: What was the decision to have him leave the group

1581
01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:40,280
Speaker 1: and did it cause did it cause a conflict of interests?

1582
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:43,679
Speaker 4: Like, okay, you're going to produce us both now or.

1583
01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:48,640
Speaker 2: What we could have? And that's what I suggested. So

1584
01:31:48,800 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 2: was that a conflict of interest from them? Or well

1585
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:55,320
Speaker 2: they wanted to leave, he they wanted they broke the group.

1586
01:31:55,320 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 2: But Teddy left the group right And he came to

1587
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:00,760
Speaker 2: me and said, look, I'm leaving Harold Melvine and uh

1588
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:04,439
Speaker 2: I can't get paid or whatever the situation was. I said, well,

1589
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 2: so he said can I stay here? I said, yeah,

1590
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 2: he can stay, it's no problem. So then when how

1591
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:13,160
Speaker 2: came in and the house, well, you know, Teddy left

1592
01:32:13,200 --> 01:32:14,960
Speaker 2: the group. I got me a new singer, you know.

1593
01:32:15,080 --> 01:32:17,920
Speaker 2: I mean, and I'll stay, but I don't want Teddy

1594
01:32:17,960 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 2: over here. I said, well, I can't do that.

1595
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:22,559
Speaker 1: You're gonna lose this one, right, I can't do it.

1596
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:26,000
Speaker 2: So and he had a good group, because that's when Ebo,

1597
01:32:26,120 --> 01:32:29,080
Speaker 2: I think you were in David Ebo. I think his

1598
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:31,120
Speaker 2: name was Kenny might be, but.

1599
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:32,400
Speaker 1: Anyway, he was good.

1600
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:37,479
Speaker 2: And but it wasn't like Teddy Pendergrass and the whole thing.

1601
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:40,400
Speaker 2: And uh and I think that's during the time when

1602
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:45,519
Speaker 2: wake Up Everybody came out and that was pretty much

1603
01:32:46,479 --> 01:32:50,559
Speaker 2: didn't need a background, wake Up Everybody, and so we

1604
01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:53,240
Speaker 2: didn't use the background. But that was before the group

1605
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:56,640
Speaker 2: broke up anyway, right, Okay, okay, So it wasn't it

1606
01:32:56,680 --> 01:33:00,560
Speaker 2: wasn't anything. But I loved how Harold Melvin had. We

1607
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:04,240
Speaker 2: had a lot of talent and h he's the guy

1608
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:06,960
Speaker 2: who discovered Teddy Pentograss.

1609
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:12,400
Speaker 1: So the of the classic Philly International records, I mean,

1610
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:17,880
Speaker 1: do you consider the classic logo era of Philly International.

1611
01:33:17,960 --> 01:33:21,200
Speaker 1: Do you consider paddle la Belle to be the end

1612
01:33:21,200 --> 01:33:22,000
Speaker 1: of that sentence?

1613
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:26,760
Speaker 2: Or Wow, ain't that something? She's great? I'm in love again.

1614
01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:28,080
Speaker 2: That's a great song, right, away.

1615
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 5: If only you knew that was like, that's one of

1616
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:32,879
Speaker 5: my favorite my.

1617
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:34,680
Speaker 1: Loved even want you.

1618
01:33:36,160 --> 01:33:41,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Patti LaBelle, She's a classic, you know.

1619
01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:44,479
Speaker 2: And I mean when we start to think of these people,

1620
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:48,120
Speaker 2: you know, these are all all good friends. I try

1621
01:33:48,120 --> 01:33:51,120
Speaker 2: to make sure that we had not only make music together,

1622
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:56,280
Speaker 2: but we also respect one another. And uh, Patty, I've

1623
01:33:56,280 --> 01:33:58,200
Speaker 2: been knowing Patty since we were teenagers.

1624
01:33:58,640 --> 01:33:58,800
Speaker 1: You know.

1625
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:00,800
Speaker 2: I was really glad to be able to work with her,

1626
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:03,200
Speaker 2: and I'm really glad to get the hits that we

1627
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:06,200
Speaker 2: got with her. We got some stuff on her right

1628
01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:08,320
Speaker 2: now in the can that I want to get it out.

1629
01:34:08,479 --> 01:34:10,040
Speaker 2: So we're going to start trying to put some of

1630
01:34:10,040 --> 01:34:12,040
Speaker 2: this stuff out. I want to know what's in the can.

1631
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:16,439
Speaker 2: You want you, I want to know what's in the can. Yeah,

1632
01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:19,519
Speaker 2: I want to know what's in the can. So are

1633
01:34:19,520 --> 01:34:24,639
Speaker 2: you of your entire Did you hear that? Yeah?

1634
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:30,840
Speaker 1: I was like I heard it, but I didn't absorb it. Yeah,

1635
01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:34,839
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that. Yeah, okay, of of your entire canon?

1636
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:37,240
Speaker 1: What do you what do you feel? What is the

1637
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:42,120
Speaker 1: most special to you, the most sentimental? Your your baby,

1638
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:44,599
Speaker 1: You're the song that you've written. Can you say that.

1639
01:34:45,400 --> 01:34:47,639
Speaker 2: Wow, there's quite a few.

1640
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:50,280
Speaker 1: All right, I'll give you three.

1641
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:52,080
Speaker 4: Give me what are your What are your three?

1642
01:34:53,479 --> 01:35:01,280
Speaker 2: Well, let's go with let's go with Family Reunion. That's

1643
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:04,880
Speaker 2: a good one. Okay. You feel if you feel a

1644
01:35:04,880 --> 01:35:07,120
Speaker 2: certain way when you when you have songs.

1645
01:35:06,840 --> 01:35:09,800
Speaker 3: When when those opening notes come in, like it's just

1646
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:11,080
Speaker 3: warmth all over there.

1647
01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:14,360
Speaker 2: It's great. Yeah, that's that's I love that record. Yeah,

1648
01:35:14,360 --> 01:35:19,120
Speaker 2: that's like potatoes out. Yeah, it's good for you in

1649
01:35:19,160 --> 01:35:19,799
Speaker 2: the kitchen.

1650
01:35:20,720 --> 01:35:29,080
Speaker 1: Oh, it's a real picture.

1651
01:35:29,640 --> 01:35:30,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's nice.

1652
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:37,760
Speaker 1: And for nineteen seventy six, what else you got? I think,

1653
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:43,360
Speaker 1: well this but for the love of money, of course,

1654
01:35:43,400 --> 01:35:43,840
Speaker 1: you know that.

1655
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:47,479
Speaker 6: That's just you're doing your top earners over there.

1656
01:35:51,240 --> 01:35:53,439
Speaker 2: Check this out on this album. Here, here's a song

1657
01:35:53,479 --> 01:35:55,080
Speaker 2: that we did. It's called this Air.

1658
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:55,719
Speaker 1: I breathe.

1659
01:35:56,960 --> 01:35:59,800
Speaker 2: Now, this was before all the pollution and oncology, right

1660
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:02,439
Speaker 2: is there? I breathe It don't belong to me. I

1661
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:05,000
Speaker 2: breathe it in, I take it in and I breathe

1662
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:06,960
Speaker 2: it out. It just won't stay in my mouth. That's

1663
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:13,840
Speaker 2: the lyrics. Yeah, Wow, don't call me brother. That's a

1664
01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:16,519
Speaker 2: good one. People, I love that song. That's a good one.

1665
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:18,920
Speaker 2: It's the truth. That is my favorite song. That's the

1666
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:21,800
Speaker 2: original player hater call that.

1667
01:36:22,680 --> 01:36:23,960
Speaker 7: And I asked a question.

1668
01:36:24,040 --> 01:36:27,280
Speaker 8: Yes, I'm noticing in some of the songwriting credits sometimes

1669
01:36:27,320 --> 01:36:31,320
Speaker 8: it's uh huff gamble, sometimes it's gamble hoff.

1670
01:36:32,360 --> 01:36:37,040
Speaker 2: I didn't notice it. John Lennon, Lenna McCartney.

1671
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:38,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, situation. I'm not sure.

1672
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:40,960
Speaker 7: Did that mean anything that I represent?

1673
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:44,920
Speaker 2: Not to me, I've never even seen that.

1674
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:49,760
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm the same album something executive songs. It's like, yeah,

1675
01:36:49,800 --> 01:36:50,679
Speaker 8: it might just be a type.

1676
01:36:51,040 --> 01:36:51,920
Speaker 2: What song is that?

1677
01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:55,280
Speaker 8: Nobody could take your place? As half gamble? Nobody could

1678
01:36:55,320 --> 01:36:55,760
Speaker 8: ever take it?

1679
01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:59,800
Speaker 7: Somewhere down the line is gamble hoof same thing?

1680
01:37:00,000 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 2: Nobody could ever take your place? That's a good song?

1681
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:04,880
Speaker 6: Was lou Rawls You'll never find? Is that one of

1682
01:37:04,920 --> 01:37:06,519
Speaker 6: your top three?

1683
01:37:06,439 --> 01:37:07,479
Speaker 2: Ye, that's a good one.

1684
01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:10,280
Speaker 6: I got to give it to Belief again, I can't

1685
01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:10,880
Speaker 6: take the credit.

1686
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:14,360
Speaker 2: Did you ever think a song wasn't going to be

1687
01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:15,720
Speaker 2: a hit and wound up being a hit?

1688
01:37:16,080 --> 01:37:16,800
Speaker 1: Or vice versa?

1689
01:37:17,080 --> 01:37:19,280
Speaker 2: Three degrees? What which one?

1690
01:37:22,040 --> 01:37:22,240
Speaker 6: You know?

1691
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:24,920
Speaker 1: It just hit me that a big part of their

1692
01:37:25,160 --> 01:37:28,000
Speaker 1: notariety was the fact that that song was also a

1693
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:32,040
Speaker 1: favorite of Prince Charles. Yeah, so the Prince Charles was

1694
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:37,599
Speaker 1: like that was his was that was his TLC. So

1695
01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:38,720
Speaker 1: he invited them over.

1696
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:41,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, he was cheating with Camilla.

1697
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:46,559
Speaker 2: This is when this is when he was a teenager.

1698
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:52,080
Speaker 1: He invited them over them and then like they were

1699
01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:55,240
Speaker 1: in the press, they're like, meet Prince Charles's favorite group,

1700
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:57,000
Speaker 1: the Three Degrees and that that's.

1701
01:37:56,760 --> 01:37:59,280
Speaker 2: How like that that helped.

1702
01:37:59,040 --> 01:38:08,520
Speaker 1: Them a lot, like was the Drake of his day.

1703
01:38:08,720 --> 01:38:11,920
Speaker 2: The Jones girls. Wow, the Jones girls.

1704
01:38:12,080 --> 01:38:16,559
Speaker 1: Man, you guys are just pulling them out iterations of it.

1705
01:38:16,800 --> 01:38:19,679
Speaker 2: That goes back to Dexter WANs All again.

1706
01:38:20,120 --> 01:38:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, turned into the.

1707
01:38:22,320 --> 01:38:27,000
Speaker 2: Most The beautiful thing was we had so much competition

1708
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:32,160
Speaker 2: amongst each other, you know, and so that makes it better.

1709
01:38:32,200 --> 01:38:34,680
Speaker 2: When you got people that you have to compete with,

1710
01:38:34,720 --> 01:38:41,080
Speaker 2: you gotta win, so you gotta be good. And I

1711
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:48,160
Speaker 2: listened to songs like like Sadie Jefferson and Simmons. It

1712
01:38:48,280 --> 01:38:51,440
Speaker 2: was a great song Sadie, you know. And the Spinners

1713
01:38:52,320 --> 01:38:56,840
Speaker 2: were they were excellent. I mean Philippe, the guy who

1714
01:38:56,960 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 2: was the lead single fan when this guy was unbelievable,

1715
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:01,160
Speaker 2: you know he was.

1716
01:39:01,240 --> 01:39:05,200
Speaker 1: He was as good almost as a Teddy Pendergrass.

1717
01:39:06,320 --> 01:39:08,559
Speaker 2: You know what I mean especially in performing, like out

1718
01:39:08,600 --> 01:39:11,320
Speaker 2: on stage, this guy would turn the joint out man.

1719
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:15,880
Speaker 2: And it's unfortunate that he that he got hisself in

1720
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:18,920
Speaker 2: that in that situation where he had that heart attack

1721
01:39:19,000 --> 01:39:24,240
Speaker 2: or whatever, but he had a tremendous future. I would

1722
01:39:24,280 --> 01:39:28,920
Speaker 2: even compare him to who had the potential of becoming

1723
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:32,280
Speaker 2: like a Sam Cook. That's the kind of voice that

1724
01:39:32,320 --> 01:39:36,200
Speaker 2: this guy had. You know, they had some great albums together.

1725
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:39,879
Speaker 2: I mean Tommy Bell, I mean, he made some beautiful

1726
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:43,960
Speaker 2: music with the Spinners, Din Warick. And then there's another

1727
01:39:44,000 --> 01:39:48,120
Speaker 2: songwriter that we had with us as Vinny Barrett. She

1728
01:39:48,320 --> 01:39:49,960
Speaker 2: was great, Benny Barrett.

1729
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:54,759
Speaker 1: What is your favorite obscure piro joint?

1730
01:39:55,800 --> 01:40:00,000
Speaker 2: Probably one of them is Oh, Jay's my favorite person.

1731
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:04,639
Speaker 3: So good one. Jam That's a good one. Yeah, yeah,

1732
01:40:04,760 --> 01:40:10,720
Speaker 3: like yours. Bill I mentioned it earlier. It's Dexter one.

1733
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:13,360
Speaker 3: You can be what you want to be, Okay, Like, yeah,

1734
01:40:13,439 --> 01:40:15,080
Speaker 3: I love that one.

1735
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:19,240
Speaker 6: Just asked I did mine niceer reason because I know

1736
01:40:19,280 --> 01:40:23,439
Speaker 6: it's not but I know some people but it was.

1737
01:40:23,479 --> 01:40:28,400
Speaker 5: But I'm just saying, but no, that's that's a great song.

1738
01:40:28,600 --> 01:40:32,040
Speaker 2: I people talk about like clean.

1739
01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:33,720
Speaker 6: Up the Ghetto is still skew to some people, So

1740
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:34,639
Speaker 6: I'll take that one.

1741
01:40:34,760 --> 01:40:39,479
Speaker 1: I wasn't familiar with until Daft Punk used cold Bottom.

1742
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:44,000
Speaker 1: I forgot that was p I R.

1743
01:40:44,160 --> 01:40:46,519
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh wow damn yeah.

1744
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:51,800
Speaker 1: Well yeah, actually there's three daft Punk samples off that first.

1745
01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:55,120
Speaker 2: Uh, Edwards, how do you feel about people sampling your stuff?

1746
01:40:55,600 --> 01:40:59,799
Speaker 1: It's great, I'll take another.

1747
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:04,360
Speaker 3: All that's a perfect answer because it basically it recontextualizes

1748
01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:07,479
Speaker 3: it for an entire new generation. Like I mean, there's

1749
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:10,280
Speaker 3: so much classic music that was sampled via hip hop

1750
01:41:10,479 --> 01:41:11,680
Speaker 3: that I probably wouldn't have heard of.

1751
01:41:12,479 --> 01:41:15,080
Speaker 2: So it just opened my ears to so much more.

1752
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:17,639
Speaker 6: Oh, that was the Kanye story I was telling earlier

1753
01:41:17,680 --> 01:41:19,840
Speaker 6: when we was on stage and Kanye asked, you could

1754
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:22,280
Speaker 6: he get hit there's some samples for free beautiful?

1755
01:41:22,400 --> 01:41:24,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you literally.

1756
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:26,080
Speaker 6: Literally he was like we literally.

1757
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:27,280
Speaker 2: Kobe said, would you like.

1758
01:41:27,240 --> 01:41:28,439
Speaker 6: What was the first thing you would like to say

1759
01:41:28,479 --> 01:41:30,840
Speaker 6: to mister Gamble? Can I get some samples for free?

1760
01:41:32,840 --> 01:41:33,360
Speaker 6: Promise you?

1761
01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:35,280
Speaker 2: What was your response?

1762
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 1: No?

1763
01:41:36,120 --> 01:41:41,240
Speaker 2: No, I can't do that. All yeah, I mean free.

1764
01:41:41,360 --> 01:41:44,240
Speaker 3: We can work together, maybe nothing off the top, but

1765
01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:45,680
Speaker 3: something off the back end.

1766
01:41:45,720 --> 01:41:50,000
Speaker 2: But it's good to work you know. But Kanye, he's

1767
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:51,800
Speaker 2: done good. He's not real good.

1768
01:41:52,040 --> 01:41:54,120
Speaker 6: Do you have a faith? How long ages that? That

1769
01:41:54,240 --> 01:41:56,519
Speaker 6: was like fifteen years ago?

1770
01:41:56,680 --> 01:41:56,920
Speaker 1: Wow?

1771
01:41:58,360 --> 01:42:00,559
Speaker 6: I mean it's been a long Like do you have

1772
01:42:00,600 --> 01:42:03,280
Speaker 6: a favorite use of a of a sample of your song?

1773
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:05,400
Speaker 2: Oh? Man?

1774
01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:09,920
Speaker 1: Oh no, Cliff, they did what did y'all do? What

1775
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:16,000
Speaker 1: was that thing y'all did that CD did with Anthony Ellis?

1776
01:42:17,720 --> 01:42:24,439
Speaker 1: Samthology was? What's biggest smalls on that? Use?

1777
01:42:24,520 --> 01:42:28,880
Speaker 6: The Dynasty record? The jay z on more?

1778
01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:34,360
Speaker 1: Can I say? Well, mindset singing something nothing y That's

1779
01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:35,360
Speaker 1: not what I'm talking about.

1780
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:40,360
Speaker 6: I'm talking about. That's another song he used.

1781
01:42:41,439 --> 01:42:46,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, do you have anything else? Man? I got

1782
01:42:46,280 --> 01:42:46,599
Speaker 1: so many?

1783
01:42:46,720 --> 01:42:50,559
Speaker 5: So okay, I want to say and correct me if

1784
01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:53,320
Speaker 5: I'm wrong. I remember, I think I remember this was

1785
01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:57,439
Speaker 5: like ninety seven ninety eight. You did an interview with

1786
01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:00,880
Speaker 5: Vibe I want to say, and they played you. They

1787
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:02,720
Speaker 5: were playing you like some new songs and you were

1788
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:04,600
Speaker 5: kind of getting your opinion on them, and one of

1789
01:43:04,600 --> 01:43:09,040
Speaker 5: the songs that you really liked was it was hot

1790
01:43:09,080 --> 01:43:12,559
Speaker 5: at that time, happily happily ever after about the case.

1791
01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:16,400
Speaker 5: And I remember you, you know you really liked that song.

1792
01:43:16,479 --> 01:43:18,160
Speaker 5: You were saying, you know, this reminds me of something

1793
01:43:18,200 --> 01:43:20,280
Speaker 5: that you know me and that we would have did

1794
01:43:20,320 --> 01:43:22,080
Speaker 5: back in our day. And I was and that was

1795
01:43:22,120 --> 01:43:25,720
Speaker 5: one of the times I really I had even more

1796
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:28,040
Speaker 5: respect for you because a lot of times the older

1797
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:30,479
Speaker 5: cats would look at the younger dudes like, nah, that

1798
01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:33,200
Speaker 5: that's not real music. But that was a hot record

1799
01:43:33,280 --> 01:43:35,960
Speaker 5: and it was a really good song at studio when

1800
01:43:35,960 --> 01:43:40,000
Speaker 5: I thought because first one. So when I saw you

1801
01:43:40,040 --> 01:43:42,840
Speaker 5: give that process, I was like, Okay, he's still on it.

1802
01:43:42,880 --> 01:43:43,840
Speaker 2: You know, he's still in it.

1803
01:43:43,880 --> 01:43:46,599
Speaker 5: So do you have any artists now that you hear,

1804
01:43:46,760 --> 01:43:48,960
Speaker 5: like from a songwriter perspective, and you're like, you know what,

1805
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:50,240
Speaker 5: this is a really good crafted song.

1806
01:43:50,240 --> 01:43:57,719
Speaker 2: I wish I had read that well. I think song wise,

1807
01:43:58,240 --> 01:43:59,960
Speaker 2: I think what what comes in my head right now?

1808
01:44:00,160 --> 01:44:01,920
Speaker 2: It's that song about meet me in the middle.

1809
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:07,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love.

1810
01:44:07,240 --> 01:44:07,920
Speaker 2: You all right now?

1811
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:12,120
Speaker 4: And because right now, yeah I don't know, in the

1812
01:44:12,200 --> 01:44:14,800
Speaker 4: uber some point right now.

1813
01:44:15,960 --> 01:44:16,240
Speaker 6: Stuff.

1814
01:44:16,439 --> 01:44:19,599
Speaker 9: It's like a really popular tonight show. So you still

1815
01:44:19,600 --> 01:44:20,639
Speaker 9: lost at Target?

1816
01:44:20,760 --> 01:44:26,599
Speaker 2: Target, Why don't you you've heard the song world?

1817
01:44:27,240 --> 01:44:31,519
Speaker 1: Probably I got a feeling of two thousand and seventeen,

1818
01:44:32,439 --> 01:44:33,479
Speaker 1: it still has a.

1819
01:44:33,680 --> 01:44:36,080
Speaker 2: You know, I thought it was good. I think it's

1820
01:44:36,080 --> 01:44:38,519
Speaker 2: a good it's real catchy you know, yeah.

1821
01:44:38,479 --> 01:44:40,759
Speaker 6: And that girl was a songwriter first, she just started

1822
01:44:40,760 --> 01:44:41,759
Speaker 6: really thanks singing.

1823
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:43,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1824
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:48,680
Speaker 6: Marin Moore surprising, show's surprised as the bell she's on street.

1825
01:44:49,400 --> 01:44:53,559
Speaker 2: I like this girl. Her name is her yeah yeah?

1826
01:44:54,600 --> 01:45:02,200
Speaker 2: And what's the other girl's name? Yell yeah boot. I

1827
01:45:02,280 --> 01:45:02,960
Speaker 2: like both of them.

1828
01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:05,439
Speaker 1: I like, I like it's a little bit different, you

1829
01:45:05,479 --> 01:45:07,519
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And their voices are different.

1830
01:45:07,720 --> 01:45:12,559
Speaker 2: You like John Legend. I love John Legend. Yeah. Version

1831
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:16,240
Speaker 2: of wake Up, Wake Up Everybody. I think there's too

1832
01:45:16,280 --> 01:45:17,240
Speaker 2: many people on it.

1833
01:45:19,200 --> 01:45:19,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1834
01:45:19,439 --> 01:45:21,120
Speaker 2: I think I should have did it by itself.

1835
01:45:21,720 --> 01:45:24,120
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I think so too. I think so too.

1836
01:45:24,360 --> 01:45:24,840
Speaker 1: I think something.

1837
01:45:24,880 --> 01:45:25,880
Speaker 6: You know who produced that record?

1838
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:27,479
Speaker 2: Quest?

1839
01:45:29,600 --> 01:45:39,840
Speaker 3: That's why you yes, exactly great.

1840
01:45:37,280 --> 01:45:39,680
Speaker 1: So in terms of how many people like you, why

1841
01:45:39,680 --> 01:45:41,280
Speaker 1: didn't know Common Melanie were on it?

1842
01:45:41,400 --> 01:45:44,040
Speaker 4: You know, we just we did the bear tracks and

1843
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:45,360
Speaker 4: then went on tour and it's.

1844
01:45:45,200 --> 01:45:47,840
Speaker 1: Like, oh, came back and it was But you.

1845
01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:50,360
Speaker 2: Know what, that song is going to be around a

1846
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:52,960
Speaker 2: long time because of that, because of y'all doing it,

1847
01:45:53,000 --> 01:45:57,120
Speaker 2: because all of y'all careers is just blooming, get bigger

1848
01:45:57,120 --> 01:45:59,479
Speaker 2: and bigger and bigger, and it's just gonna make more

1849
01:45:59,520 --> 01:46:03,240
Speaker 2: people let's into it when I got an oscar? Now, yeah,

1850
01:46:03,160 --> 01:46:06,760
Speaker 2: what was that common comment? Yeah, it's great. He was,

1851
01:46:06,760 --> 01:46:07,320
Speaker 2: he gonna wake.

1852
01:46:07,280 --> 01:46:08,439
Speaker 6: Up everything him to.

1853
01:46:11,479 --> 01:46:12,320
Speaker 2: What did what did you.

1854
01:46:14,400 --> 01:46:16,559
Speaker 3: Don't ask you about? What do you think about new stuff?

1855
01:46:17,280 --> 01:46:21,120
Speaker 3: It was it was on that epic or Columbia, Columbia, Columbia.

1856
01:46:21,360 --> 01:46:23,040
Speaker 6: I was just gonna ask him what he thought about

1857
01:46:23,040 --> 01:46:25,880
Speaker 6: the resurgence of like Philly Soul when you know the

1858
01:46:25,960 --> 01:46:29,000
Speaker 6: roots black Lily, like when that Jill, when all that happened,

1859
01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:30,200
Speaker 6: you thinking.

1860
01:46:30,320 --> 01:46:33,200
Speaker 1: I loved it. I love I love the whole black

1861
01:46:33,280 --> 01:46:33,479
Speaker 1: I mean.

1862
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:39,320
Speaker 3: He worked with Victor Play, Victor Cook, Victor Play.

1863
01:46:39,240 --> 01:46:44,559
Speaker 6: And James Poyser, who, yes mc fee also worked in

1864
01:46:45,560 --> 01:46:46,000
Speaker 6: pr R.

1865
01:46:46,160 --> 01:46:47,960
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I love it man, because you know what,

1866
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:51,320
Speaker 2: like I've seen James in the in the train station

1867
01:46:51,439 --> 01:46:54,280
Speaker 2: one day and men were sitting there talking, were waiting

1868
01:46:54,280 --> 01:46:57,639
Speaker 2: for the train, and I said, James, I said, you're

1869
01:46:57,680 --> 01:46:58,639
Speaker 2: really doing good.

1870
01:46:58,800 --> 01:46:59,040
Speaker 1: Man.

1871
01:46:59,560 --> 01:47:01,519
Speaker 2: I said, I said, I see you every night. Like

1872
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:04,280
Speaker 2: I told him, was I see you every night? And uh,

1873
01:47:05,200 --> 01:47:08,720
Speaker 2: you talk about talented people like James is a very

1874
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:11,400
Speaker 2: talented person. I mean I was telling him, I said,

1875
01:47:11,400 --> 01:47:17,400
Speaker 2: you know the the part that Jimmy fallon does when

1876
01:47:17,439 --> 01:47:18,280
Speaker 2: he says thank you.

1877
01:47:18,320 --> 01:47:19,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the thank you notes.

1878
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:22,720
Speaker 2: Well, that's a beautiful melody he's playing there, you know

1879
01:47:22,760 --> 01:47:25,080
Speaker 2: what I mean. I would let's not guess.

1880
01:47:24,920 --> 01:47:29,160
Speaker 6: James Award winning James.

1881
01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:32,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that that is in my view, that's

1882
01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:36,040
Speaker 2: a great melody. And I'm listening to us as Wow,

1883
01:47:36,080 --> 01:47:39,680
Speaker 2: I said, that would be great. Maybe if you had maybe.

1884
01:47:38,960 --> 01:47:40,880
Speaker 1: Keep a song over it. You should borrow it and

1885
01:47:40,920 --> 01:47:41,680
Speaker 1: do something with it.

1886
01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:43,720
Speaker 7: You.

1887
01:47:44,400 --> 01:47:46,640
Speaker 3: I'm talking to mister Gamble over here. You should give

1888
01:47:46,680 --> 01:47:48,200
Speaker 3: that songs the blue Face make it hit.

1889
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:52,360
Speaker 2: Blue Face. Don't go down there.

1890
01:47:52,360 --> 01:47:55,040
Speaker 3: I'm saying, all the all the kids are taking your stuff,

1891
01:47:55,040 --> 01:47:57,320
Speaker 3: so why don't you take some of the I just.

1892
01:47:57,320 --> 01:48:02,720
Speaker 1: Might it's take it back and finish it there. Yeah, well,

1893
01:48:03,120 --> 01:48:04,360
Speaker 1: you don't need no lyrics to it.

1894
01:48:04,320 --> 01:48:06,040
Speaker 2: It's a melody, you know what I mean.

1895
01:48:06,160 --> 01:48:08,559
Speaker 3: And you know, but some words could take it to

1896
01:48:08,560 --> 01:48:13,599
Speaker 3: the next place. Okay, Well with.

1897
01:48:13,479 --> 01:48:16,040
Speaker 5: That said, I just want to love is the message

1898
01:48:16,160 --> 01:48:22,200
Speaker 5: MFSB Oh, yeah, I was. Are you aware of the

1899
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:25,439
Speaker 5: So there's a version probably like the most famous version. Honestly,

1900
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:27,200
Speaker 5: the first version of love is the message that I

1901
01:48:27,200 --> 01:48:27,679
Speaker 5: ever heard.

1902
01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:29,559
Speaker 1: Like I don't even know which version of Love.

1903
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:33,680
Speaker 2: Never Yeah, because I just don't agree with it.

1904
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:36,720
Speaker 5: So there's a DJ named Danny Crivitt that did a

1905
01:48:36,920 --> 01:48:38,559
Speaker 5: re edit of Love is the.

1906
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:41,639
Speaker 9: New York From New York, I've heard it, Okay, what

1907
01:48:41,640 --> 01:48:44,000
Speaker 9: were your thoughts on I thought it was great, Okay,

1908
01:48:44,840 --> 01:48:46,479
Speaker 9: because that was the first version I heard I love.

1909
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:48,320
Speaker 3: Man, how did you feel when you found out that

1910
01:48:48,360 --> 01:48:52,160
Speaker 3: song was such a huge record in discos? Like it's

1911
01:48:52,160 --> 01:48:54,559
Speaker 3: like it's was the loft, it was the anthem of

1912
01:48:54,600 --> 01:48:56,080
Speaker 3: the loft, it was the work.

1913
01:48:56,439 --> 01:48:59,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you know what Mike Tyson told me, he said, Man,

1914
01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:04,080
Speaker 1: he said, I used to take that song Love is

1915
01:49:04,080 --> 01:49:04,639
Speaker 1: a Message.

1916
01:49:04,680 --> 01:49:07,160
Speaker 2: He said, I used to exercise to it.

1917
01:49:07,760 --> 01:49:11,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'll tell you something.

1918
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:13,479
Speaker 2: You know, you know how I know it's summer in

1919
01:49:13,479 --> 01:49:13,920
Speaker 2: New York.

1920
01:49:15,880 --> 01:49:17,920
Speaker 3: Somebody driving down the street playing Love is a Message,

1921
01:49:18,000 --> 01:49:19,280
Speaker 3: no matter what neighborhood I'm.

1922
01:49:19,120 --> 01:49:22,040
Speaker 2: In, Ain't that's something they could have gone a different way.

1923
01:49:22,360 --> 01:49:24,240
Speaker 2: I'm like, God.

1924
01:49:24,800 --> 01:49:25,280
Speaker 1: Thank God.

1925
01:49:25,320 --> 01:49:26,040
Speaker 2: But no, Like.

1926
01:49:27,640 --> 01:49:29,400
Speaker 3: I think I think I noticed it, maybe the I

1927
01:49:29,439 --> 01:49:31,479
Speaker 3: moved to New York and maybe like two two thousand

1928
01:49:31,479 --> 01:49:34,080
Speaker 3: and two, I probably noticed that summer, like I first

1929
01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:37,160
Speaker 3: heard somebody driving down the street, and then every summer afterwards,

1930
01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:41,360
Speaker 3: I would notice, like I'm always hearing somebody blasting love

1931
01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:43,720
Speaker 3: is a message going down the street, no matter what

1932
01:49:43,760 --> 01:49:44,599
Speaker 3: neighborhood I'm in.

1933
01:49:45,080 --> 01:49:46,400
Speaker 2: Ain't that's something were you?

1934
01:49:47,120 --> 01:49:52,120
Speaker 1: Were you guys aware at the impact of because based

1935
01:49:52,160 --> 01:49:54,560
Speaker 1: on the times that I see on these records, and

1936
01:49:54,600 --> 01:49:56,120
Speaker 1: you weren't making twelve inch.

1937
01:49:57,479 --> 01:49:59,840
Speaker 4: Records as of yet, But did.

1938
01:49:59,680 --> 01:50:01,760
Speaker 1: You guys have an inkling like, Okay, the longer we

1939
01:50:02,000 --> 01:50:05,000
Speaker 1: make the song, the more they keep it on, the.

1940
01:50:05,120 --> 01:50:05,720
Speaker 2: Better it is.

1941
01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:11,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm telling you. They tell you we had.

1942
01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:14,559
Speaker 2: We had a fight with with CBS when we were

1943
01:50:14,680 --> 01:50:18,920
Speaker 2: with them because the first long Vergin record that we

1944
01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:22,960
Speaker 2: did was The Love I Lost, Yes, and then we

1945
01:50:23,040 --> 01:50:25,880
Speaker 2: came back. Yeah, this was a good one. I mean

1946
01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:31,080
Speaker 2: that was that was smoking that track. And we told

1947
01:50:31,120 --> 01:50:35,160
Speaker 2: them about the twelve inches, right, but CBS wanted to

1948
01:50:35,520 --> 01:50:36,960
Speaker 2: have them on a forty five.

1949
01:50:39,080 --> 01:50:40,920
Speaker 1: It's not gonna work, you know what I mean. You

1950
01:50:41,040 --> 01:50:46,720
Speaker 1: gotta have you gotta have. The twelve inch has got

1951
01:50:46,760 --> 01:50:50,760
Speaker 1: to be the same size as the album because mastering it.

1952
01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:55,680
Speaker 1: If you try to master for a little forty five, ye,

1953
01:50:55,800 --> 01:50:58,800
Speaker 1: the grooves gonna knod. Yeah, you wouldn't get the same sound.

1954
01:50:59,520 --> 01:51:05,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, that that, but we finally won and and

1955
01:51:06,080 --> 01:51:10,400
Speaker 2: uh the battle with them on that twelve inch being

1956
01:51:11,479 --> 01:51:17,400
Speaker 2: the long version thirty three and the third and ain't

1957
01:51:17,400 --> 01:51:18,519
Speaker 2: no stopping this now.

1958
01:51:20,640 --> 01:51:22,960
Speaker 1: I think we must have sold like seventy five thousand

1959
01:51:23,880 --> 01:51:27,599
Speaker 1: in New York alone on the twelve inch. I got

1960
01:51:27,760 --> 01:51:32,719
Speaker 1: warmer question than you got to wrap up Jacko's Rhythm Talk.

1961
01:51:33,160 --> 01:51:39,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's my man. I love Jacko. How okay?

1962
01:51:39,040 --> 01:51:39,519
Speaker 1: What was that?

1963
01:51:40,320 --> 01:51:40,479
Speaker 3: Oh?

1964
01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:42,400
Speaker 1: I'm this is gonna be my last song that I

1965
01:51:42,479 --> 01:51:46,880
Speaker 1: played right when when rappers the light was red hot.

1966
01:51:47,080 --> 01:51:51,360
Speaker 1: Jacko Jacko Henderson basically is the father of hip hop.

1967
01:51:51,400 --> 01:51:55,200
Speaker 1: That that kind of cat, who's hey Papa. He used

1968
01:51:55,240 --> 01:51:58,160
Speaker 1: to get in the back Philly guy.

1969
01:51:58,640 --> 01:52:00,280
Speaker 2: Uh he was a.

1970
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:08,880
Speaker 1: New York Yes, yeah, probably a month later after rappers

1971
01:52:08,880 --> 01:52:12,920
Speaker 1: are like, rhythm Talk comes out and at least in Philadelphia,

1972
01:52:13,040 --> 01:52:14,360
Speaker 1: it just dominated.

1973
01:52:15,240 --> 01:52:19,519
Speaker 2: Jocko used to tell me, he said, rap is the thing, Kenny,

1974
01:52:20,520 --> 01:52:22,640
Speaker 2: And he said, he said, let me go in the

1975
01:52:22,640 --> 01:52:24,720
Speaker 2: studio and give me this track. So he went in

1976
01:52:24,760 --> 01:52:30,000
Speaker 2: there and did that track. He did an excellent job. Yes,

1977
01:52:30,080 --> 01:52:31,280
Speaker 2: I've heard the music.

1978
01:52:31,320 --> 01:52:34,880
Speaker 1: I've heard this and that's how we're going to fade out, Yo,

1979
01:52:35,720 --> 01:52:40,880
Speaker 1: doctor Gamble. Great listen, thank you for everything, everything and

1980
01:52:41,040 --> 01:52:44,719
Speaker 1: everything for everything.

1981
01:52:44,880 --> 01:52:46,639
Speaker 9: I love it.

1982
01:52:46,720 --> 01:53:00,080
Speaker 2: It's beautiful family. I remember.

1983
01:52:58,560 --> 01:53:01,559
Speaker 1: And this used to get the dude. I copied all

1984
01:53:01,600 --> 01:53:05,160
Speaker 1: these lyrics and performed it in fourth grade.

1985
01:53:05,200 --> 01:53:16,559
Speaker 2: Good but don't let probably for you? Wow? What year

1986
01:53:17,439 --> 01:53:18,000
Speaker 2: seventy nine?

1987
01:53:19,120 --> 01:53:23,320
Speaker 4: Wow, November seventy nine. It's my part, said.

1988
01:53:29,360 --> 01:53:34,639
Speaker 1: The originator of Mumble Rap. Yeah, Mumble rap, God jac anyway,

1989
01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:37,000
Speaker 1: I want we have everybody on Quest Love Supreme, this

1990
01:53:37,080 --> 01:53:38,120
Speaker 1: Quest Love the Family.

1991
01:53:38,120 --> 01:53:40,200
Speaker 2: Thank you, doctor gamb I appreciate it. Man, please shout

1992
01:53:40,280 --> 01:53:43,439
Speaker 2: up and glee. Thank you for let us go next up.

1993
01:53:43,640 --> 01:53:45,479
Speaker 2: I need the hood, I need to hoodie.

1994
01:53:45,560 --> 01:53:48,599
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, we'll see you all next time on Quest Supreme.

1995
01:53:49,040 --> 01:53:50,320
Speaker 1: Got you against the love.

1996
01:53:51,240 --> 01:53:53,760
Speaker 2: I'm gonna make you scream for Mom, says bringing me

1997
01:53:54,920 --> 01:53:55,760
Speaker 2: up to you, Mom.

1998
01:53:55,840 --> 01:53:57,479
Speaker 1: Your sister's naming your needs.

1999
01:53:57,640 --> 01:54:01,080
Speaker 4: Freeze you like first.

2000
01:54:01,120 --> 01:54:05,840
Speaker 2: Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

2001
01:54:07,080 --> 01:54:10,360
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

2002
01:54:10,600 --> 01:54:13,639
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.