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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and a poll of three hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty nine CEOs from Chief Executive magazine says seventy percent

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Speaker 1: of CEOs disapprove of Trump's tariffs. The other thirty percent

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Speaker 1: are just drunk. We have such a great show for

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Speaker 1: you today. The Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson joins us

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Speaker 1: to figure out what the court's rebuke of trump Ism

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Speaker 1: and the Trump agenda means for America. Then we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to the New York Times Theodore Schleifer about America's oligarchs

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Speaker 1: and how the public is reacting to their overreaches.

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Speaker 2: But first, my happy Eastern let me tell you something.

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Speaker 2: Our president. He has sent a joyful, positive message to

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Speaker 2: America on this glorious holiday.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that we will look back on,

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Speaker 1: perhaps not so fondly, is that Trump.

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Speaker 3: To send an Easter message.

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Speaker 1: That is one of his He likes an Easter message,

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Speaker 1: a Christmas message, any holiday he likes to mark with

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Speaker 1: an insane tweet. This one is from truth quote unquote,

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Speaker 1: Happy Easter to all, including the radical left, lunatics who

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Speaker 1: are fighting and scheming so hard to bring murderers, drug

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Speaker 1: lords and dangerous, dangerous prisoners, the mentally insane and well

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Speaker 1: known members of MS thirteen gang and wife beaters.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's bad.

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Speaker 1: Now back into the country anyway. Happy Easter to the

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Speaker 1: weak and ineffective judges and law enforcement.

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Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: My favorite part is he mentions that he won the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty election. He did not, and I wish you

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Speaker 1: with great love, comma, sincerity, and affection a very happy Easter.

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Speaker 3: I almost feel like he's going through the motions like

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Speaker 3: he doesn't even believe in it anymore.

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Speaker 2: See see, I have a different opinion. I miss the

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Speaker 2: haters of the losers. I want that most shit back

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Speaker 2: in there.

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Speaker 1: Instead of the haters and the losers, he's moved on

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Speaker 1: to radical left lunatics.

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Speaker 4: Yes, that is true. That is the two point zero

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Speaker 4: version of this.

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Speaker 3: All and right, that's haters and the losers.

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Speaker 4: I hate what he calls me out like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he hates when he But you know, the thing

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Speaker 1: that is the one thing that's interesting about this is

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Speaker 1: it's clearly obsessed with the autopen.

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Speaker 3: This is this thing.

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Speaker 1: He was obsessed with that, and I'm sure he uses

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Speaker 1: the autopen too.

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Speaker 4: That's what he did the January sixth Pardons with right.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's a lot of writing, but he get very

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Speaker 1: offended that by and used an autopen.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's just the greatest hits.

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Speaker 1: My man has like a goldfish brain where everything goes

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Speaker 1: round and round and around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so Bali, I don't know how much you saw yesterday,

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Speaker 2: but man, the people were out in the streets again

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Speaker 2: for the second time this month. We got caught in

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Speaker 2: traffic trying to go cross town with it, but we

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Speaker 2: love to see how many people.

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Speaker 4: Were out there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, another huge swath of protests, the no Kings protests,

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Speaker 1: protests across the country marching against Trump and musque. There

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Speaker 1: were tons of protests. It's the two hundred and fiftieth

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Speaker 1: anniversary of the start of the American Revolution. And if

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Speaker 1: you don't see the irony there, that's pretty rich. It's

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Speaker 1: the fifty to fifty one protests. The idea here is

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Speaker 1: fifty protests in fifty states, but one movement. And this

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Speaker 1: is two weeks after the April fifth hands off protest,

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Speaker 1: in which hundreds of thousands of Americans marched in fourteen

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Speaker 1: hundred cities.

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Speaker 3: Look, people don't like this.

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Speaker 1: They don't like a president who's stripping away the social

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Speaker 1: safety net.

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Speaker 3: Nobody wants that.

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Speaker 1: This is Project twenty twenty five, reminding you, guys, this

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Speaker 1: is the stuff he's enacting. When voters found out about

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Speaker 1: this in July, they didn't like it. And so here

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Speaker 1: we are. This is what's happening. Nobody likes it. Voters

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Speaker 1: don't like it. There's no reason why you should be

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Speaker 1: living through it.

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Speaker 3: And here we are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Molly, you'll be shocked to hear President Trump

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Speaker 2: is responded to this poll, and he is truth. The

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Speaker 2: businessman who criticized tariffs are bad at business?

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, is this new? Did this just come in

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Speaker 3: while we're doing this?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, the businessman who criticized tariffs are bad at business,

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Speaker 2: but really bad at politics. They don't understand or realize

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Speaker 2: that I have the greatest friend that American capitalism has

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Speaker 2: ever had.

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Speaker 4: Big exclamation point.

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Speaker 3: Well you know who else doesn't understand that the.

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Speaker 2: Markets we have quantitative truth that they don't right.

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Speaker 1: The markets don't like it either, So I mean the CEOs.

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Speaker 3: And the markets and the bond markets and and.

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Speaker 4: And you know futures.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, there's quite a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: also don't understand that he is the greatest friend capitalism

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Speaker 1: has ever had. And there's a reason for that because

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Speaker 1: he's not right. Crony capitalism is not the same as capitalism.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump bankrupted at casino. This guy is not good

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Speaker 1: for business. And this is never a bus this way.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a reason that Russia is such a tiny,

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Speaker 1: tiny economy, and it's because it's a kleptocracy. And thank

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Speaker 1: god America's big enough, so hopefully we won't get there.

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Speaker 1: But this is absolutely nice of him though to you know,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting the CEOs really gets them right, because that's like,

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Speaker 1: you know that those are the people he wants to

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Speaker 1: be friends with, those are.

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Speaker 3: The people whose Jetsy wants to ride on.

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Speaker 1: Ye.

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Speaker 2: So, Senator Chris fit Holland has been doing a lot

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Speaker 2: of press to get attention on Kilmar Aubrigo Garcia and

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Speaker 2: his visit to El Salvador. And one of the things

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Speaker 2: he's bringing attention to is the theater that they put

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Speaker 2: on down there in El Salvador.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that they're talking about this, so you'll remember

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Speaker 1: Maryland Senator Chris van Holland went down to see a

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Speaker 1: Brago Garcia to see if he was okay, make sure

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Speaker 1: he was alive. Some people thought he might not be alive,

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Speaker 1: and you know, they weren't going to let him see him,

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Speaker 1: and then they decided to let him see him. But

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Speaker 1: what I think here is important is that he realized

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Speaker 1: that they were sort of being set up. So this

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Speaker 1: is something we've seen a lot of authoritarian countries do

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Speaker 1: where they set it up to look bad. So Holland

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Speaker 1: said that they had wanted him to meet this man

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Speaker 1: by the pool.

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Speaker 3: To make it look like they were in paradise.

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Speaker 1: They had brought them drinks, these drinks that looked like

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Speaker 1: tropical drinks, and one of the drinks that had a

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Speaker 1: little bit more liquid the guy who was in jail.

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Speaker 1: They made it his drink had a little less liquid,

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Speaker 1: so it looked like you've been drinking. This is all

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Speaker 1: the kind of stuff that we see, you know, in

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Speaker 1: the authoritarian playbook, right, make it look bad, make it

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Speaker 1: look like he's not in jail, that this is all lie.

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Speaker 1: I think at some point the president of al Salvaro

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Speaker 1: realized it was looking really bad to have this person

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Speaker 1: who had been absconded from America from the streets of

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Speaker 1: Maryland in one of their prisons and was not able

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Speaker 1: to communicate. I do think that this case has broken through.

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Speaker 1: People don't like it. They don't feel that it makes

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Speaker 1: any sense. I think that a lot.

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Speaker 3: Of voters feel like, if you can abscond one person,

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Speaker 3: you can abscond with anyone. And that's Look, this is

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Speaker 3: a test run so that they can do it with

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Speaker 3: American citizens, and the fact that it's getting this much

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Speaker 3: pushback means that it's not working, means that they're less

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Speaker 3: likely to do it to any of us. So it's

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Speaker 3: good news that there's pushback. It's important that we keep

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Speaker 3: pushing back. Everything matters. Don't give up, like these protests matter.

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Speaker 3: People are seeing these protests and knowing that Trump has

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Speaker 3: to do back down a little bit. And maybe he

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Speaker 3: doesn't back down exactly the way you want him to,

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Speaker 3: but every single protest matters. The reason that he wasn't

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Speaker 3: able to really destroy the country the first time was

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Speaker 3: because he met all this resist Since that has to

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Speaker 3: happen this time too. I'm sorry, I know we're all exhausted,

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Speaker 3: but that's what has.

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Speaker 4: To happen Somali.

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Speaker 2: There is a big, big rebuke of Trump is with

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court this week, but it was not a

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Speaker 2: nine to zero decision like earlier in the week.

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Speaker 4: There was descent, and Alito has thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Justice Alito, but first of all, they didn't let him

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Speaker 1: finish his descent before they published, which I think is

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Speaker 1: kind of amazing.

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Speaker 4: It's pretty funny, Like you.

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Speaker 3: Know, Roberts is like, fuck you man, excuse my friend.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Justice Samuel Alito descended the Supreme Court decision on Saturday

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Speaker 1: to block the Trump administration from deporting a gang of

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Speaker 1: Venezuela and migrants accused of being gang members under rarely

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Speaker 1: invoked eighteenth century wartime law, which one would need a

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Speaker 1: war to a note invoked, by the way, like War

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Speaker 1: of eighteen twelve, World War one, World War two, not

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Speaker 1: right now, because there's no war going on. Calling the

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Speaker 1: courts order, so Alito is like just trying to defend Trump.

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Speaker 3: He's all alone, he says.

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Speaker 1: He calls the order hasty and prematurely granted, because it's

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Speaker 1: better just to do the order after the migrants are deported,

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Speaker 1: so that you can never get them back. In his

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Speaker 1: five page descent, released on Saturday, shortly before midnight, just

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Speaker 1: as Alito.

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Speaker 3: Joined by guests. Just guess who joined him, The one,

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Speaker 3: the only.

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Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas brod thatation intervene. It was not quote necessarily appropriate,

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Speaker 1: because after all, it's not like it's taking the right

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Speaker 1: to choose away from women or something.

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Speaker 2: So Arizona, while we have seen it trend blue, this

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Speaker 2: legislature still often comes up with really psychotic shit. And

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Speaker 2: thankfully they have Governor Katie Hobbs there to save the

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Speaker 2: day with a Veto.

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Speaker 3: For Katie Hobbs, I mean, that job's got to suck, right,

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Speaker 3: I mean.

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Speaker 4: She worked really hard to get it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you just have to have the craziest before

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Speaker 3: in the world. There. Here's what's going on here, Arizona.

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Speaker 1: Governor Veto's bill requiring local officials to help with federal

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Speaker 1: immigration efforts.

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Speaker 3: It's naughty. It's you know, She's right. I mean, they're.

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Speaker 1: Really trying hard to like put together this like fake

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Speaker 1: police force of people in plain and clothes who can

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Speaker 1: like do policing like a little militia, little Trump militia.

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Speaker 3: And every time they do this is bad. It's bad

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Speaker 3: for American democracy. It's bad. It's bad. It's bad. It's bad. No, no, no,

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Speaker 3: stop doing this. Not good new no yet. That is

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Speaker 3: all I have to say. It's good for Katie Hobbs.

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Speaker 1: The News. Rick Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln

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Speaker 1: Project and the host of the Enemy's List.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Rick Wilson, Lily Drug Fast.

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Speaker 4: How are you today?

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Speaker 1: I am good because you know I tell me because

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Speaker 1: this Supreme Court decided.

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Speaker 3: Seven to.

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Speaker 5: At one in the morning.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, talk us through what exactly happened here.

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Speaker 5: So we've been edging closer and closer mally to this

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Speaker 5: constitutional crisis of will Trump ignore the courts when they

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Speaker 5: give a direct, clear, unequivocal court order that is within

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Speaker 5: their purview. Will he ignore that order and trigger the

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Speaker 5: big crisis? And we've been getting closer and closer to that.

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Speaker 5: But over the weekend, at one in the morning on

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Speaker 5: Saturday morning, the Court said stop, no more deportations until

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Speaker 5: we review this case. You're allowed to appeal this, but

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Speaker 5: basically the way they wrote it said you can appeal it.

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Speaker 4: Good luck.

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Speaker 5: I think we're in a moment right now where the

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Speaker 5: court to save its own reputation in the future and

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Speaker 5: to save its own ability to exercise its inherent constitutional powers.

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Speaker 5: Finally had to say, Okay, this is enough. That'll do pig.

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Speaker 3: I think it's meaningful.

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Speaker 1: Clearly, what happened behind the scenes is that Justice Roberts

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Speaker 1: got this zero opinion earlier in the week, right, is

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Speaker 1: that even if you're not in this country legally, you

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Speaker 1: are still entitled to do process.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's just so much you can see. There's

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Speaker 3: just a ton of.

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Speaker 1: Roberts behind the scenes here being like, look, look, because

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Speaker 1: you don't get decisions like I'm thinking about historically, decisions

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Speaker 1: that we have had come out of this court that

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Speaker 1: are seven too. I'm sure that people write to me

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Speaker 1: and give me a lot of them, but it tends

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Speaker 1: to be that you've seen a lot of four or

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Speaker 1: fives right where Amy Cony and Robert side with liberals.

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Speaker 1: But to see just the two Fox News hosts on

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Speaker 1: their own on an island, I think is meaningful.

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Speaker 5: I think the degree to which Roberts has slowly I

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Speaker 5: don't want to give him credit for this, but I'm

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Speaker 5: going to. I think he has slowly and carefully constructed

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Speaker 5: a functional narrow majority because I think Bear and Gorsich,

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Speaker 5: although appointed by Trump and although frequently wrong on a

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Speaker 5: lot of decisions. I don't think either one of them

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Speaker 5: has the same stretch of almost anarchic trump Ism that

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Speaker 5: Alito and Thomas display every single every single day. I

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Speaker 5: don't think either one of those I don't think Gorsich

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Speaker 5: and Barrett want to be remembered as the people who

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Speaker 5: ended the constitutional order.

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Speaker 3: Right, this is how we got here.

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Speaker 1: Right, they didn't have to give him broad sweeping presidential

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Speaker 1: king immunity.

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Speaker 5: No, they didn't have to. And it was a wrong decision.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was not good.

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Speaker 5: That did not accrue well to either the court or

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Speaker 5: the country. But it's better right late than right never.

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Speaker 5: In this case, the Court has laid down a marker.

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Speaker 5: Will Trump obey it? I don't know, but I think

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Speaker 5: the Court is terrified of what Trump is doing, of

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Speaker 5: ignoring orders from all the lower courts. They didn't want

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Speaker 5: to be the ones who had had to lay the

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Speaker 5: hand hammer down, but you know, here we are. If

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Speaker 5: they had not given Trump to get out of jail

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Speaker 5: free cart before, we'd be in a different spot. But

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Speaker 5: they did, and now they're having to make difficult decisions

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Speaker 5: because of what they've done in the past. That's you

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Speaker 5: know that happens to us. All, yeah, we fuck up.

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Speaker 5: We have to deal with it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And also I would say more broadly, this has

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Speaker 1: been yet another week of Trump World really kind of

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Speaker 1: crashing into the guardrails. So again, Monday of last week,

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Speaker 1: Trump went to work with Harvard. Now Mike Schmid at

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Speaker 1: the Times has a story that says, actually, it was

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Speaker 1: an accident.

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Speaker 3: They didn't mean to send the letter.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: Oh my dog ate my homework.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: So again it's Trump world. So maybe it was an accident.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it was an accident. Who the fuck knows, It

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. What's meaningful is the fact that they're saying

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Speaker 1: that they might not have meant to do it, like

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Speaker 1: they know it's on part popular and they know they're

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Speaker 1: fucking themselves up. And then Abrego Garcia, where they thought

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Speaker 1: that al Salvador case would be good for them. You

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Speaker 1: keep seeing there like he's a gangbanger. They brought out

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Speaker 1: the mother of a girl who was murdered by someone

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Speaker 1: else who just happens to also be from a South

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Speaker 1: American country as proof that this guy who's wrong like

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Speaker 1: you Tainan, is somehow guilty. And they just can't make

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Speaker 1: this narrative stick. And they thought that this narrative. And

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Speaker 1: it's funny because you saw and I think it's meaningful.

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Speaker 1: You saw Governor Gavin Newsom saying, like, don't burn capital

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Speaker 1: on this. But the truth is this has really translated

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Speaker 1: like it was on the cover of the New York Times,

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Speaker 1: like people actually do not And you saw that press conference.

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Speaker 1: People don't like knowing that there are people being disappeared

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Speaker 1: from this country without due process.

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Speaker 5: I think we are right now in a very dangerous position,

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Speaker 5: given Trump's desire to fundamentally reshaped American politically the landscape.

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Speaker 5: He's looking for a big win on immigration because everything

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Speaker 5: else has gone in the crapper, everything else has gone

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Speaker 5: completely wrong for him. The more he flails around trying

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Speaker 5: to find a way to get a win and to

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Speaker 5: bring his numbers back up from where they are, the

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Speaker 5: worse it seems to be getting. I mean, you've got

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Speaker 5: the Pentagon falling apart. Who could have foreseen that Pete

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Speaker 5: Hexath would have brought in a bunch of morons who

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Speaker 5: leaked to the press all the time. You know, the

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Speaker 5: economic team is infighting and trying to screw each other.

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Speaker 1: So that's two different members of Hexa's team have now

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Speaker 1: been marched out three.

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Speaker 5: Three three as of today. As of Saturday, excuse me,

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Speaker 5: the Chief of Staff was also on the out, so

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Speaker 5: it's his leadership is just about what you would expect

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Speaker 5: from a Fox News host with a drinking problem. We

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Speaker 5: have a really fundamental need at the White House right

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Speaker 5: now to get a win, to get some kind of

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Speaker 5: sexy distraction thrown out there that will stop the bleeding,

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Speaker 5: and I don't know that it's out there for them today.

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Speaker 5: I think Albriga Garcia, as many times as they say, oh,

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Speaker 5: he's a gang banger, he's a criminal, he's this, he's that,

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Speaker 5: none of them have yet sufficiently proven that case with

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Speaker 5: evidence from a court.

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Speaker 1: Right. Well, I also think like they thought this was

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Speaker 1: a winner for them because they thought, and you heard

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Speaker 1: them transmit this, right They kept saying, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: if Democrats want to go to bat for this guy,

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Speaker 1: who's clearly you know this or that terrorists, right, and like,

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Speaker 1: clearly that is not working because when you saw Chuck Grassley,

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Speaker 1: you know, and when you see people this stuff breaking

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Speaker 1: through in the middle of the country, obviously people are

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Speaker 1: not saying like this is not us. They understand that

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Speaker 1: once you start getting rid of due process for one group,

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Speaker 1: you get rid of it for all the other groups.

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Speaker 5: Right once the machine of violating anyone's rights kicks into

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Speaker 5: high gear, that machine will start violating everyone's rights. It's

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Speaker 5: a historical pattern, that is indle. I think there are

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Speaker 5: a lot of people in Trump's world who the Stephen

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Speaker 5: Miller types and weirdly like the Carolyn levittypes. There's no

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Speaker 5: policy power, but she's certainly gaining perceptional power in Trump's

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Speaker 5: universe because of her willingness to go out there and

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Speaker 5: do what she's going to do. But right now we're

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Speaker 5: about to see a big conflict Molly, because Pete Hexeth

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Speaker 5: and Christy Nome have said they're going to officially say

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Speaker 5: from their organizations they don't want to do the Insurrection Act.

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Speaker 1: Which is good, which is very very good for any

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Speaker 1: number of reasons.

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Speaker 5: I think that's a headfake. I think Steven Miller could

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Speaker 5: talk Trump into this in five minutes.

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Speaker 1: I think we got to stay sort of in the

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Speaker 1: hola hoop of the sort of most recent stuff and

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Speaker 1: not get so excited about all the coods and woods

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Speaker 1: because Donald Trump could and would and probably will do

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Speaker 1: a lot of shit. But right now there were so

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Speaker 1: many wins this week, and another win I want to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about is the tariffs. So this week

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Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal, Miss Josh Dossey had a piece

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Speaker 1: that was unfucking believable. Unbelievable, right, unbelievable except for anyone

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Speaker 1: who's lived through Trump one point zero, in which case

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Speaker 1: is totally believable.

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Speaker 3: But so basically the whole net event is.

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Speaker 1: The tariffs were completely the idea of one Peter Navarro,

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Speaker 1: and he was crashing the markets and hanging out with

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Speaker 1: Trump and convincing Trump that crashing the markets was good.

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Speaker 1: And then when they saw Peter Navarro's schedule, Scott Besson

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Speaker 1: and the wonderful and completely insane and not wonderful in

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Speaker 1: any stretch of the imagination, Howard Lutnik went in together

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Speaker 1: and got Trump to tweet that he was going to

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Speaker 1: take off the.

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Speaker 5: Taps, which the market loved, because that's what Besson and

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Speaker 5: Lutnik understand better than Navarro, and Trump loved because then

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Speaker 5: he could say, see were the winning at winners, who

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Speaker 5: ever won?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 1: It feels like peak Trump, right, Like we definitely saw

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Speaker 1: stories like this.

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Speaker 5: We've all seen this particular Trump show, Molly right, for years.

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Speaker 5: He's got a very bad case of last man in

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Speaker 5: the room syndrome. Whoever's with him last can convince him

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Speaker 5: of almost anything. And I think what we saw with

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Speaker 5: this was there was a part of Trump that wanted

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Speaker 5: to be convinced.

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Speaker 4: By the way.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, his radar for things that hurt him is

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Speaker 5: pretty acute. I think we can agree, Yeah, And he

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Speaker 5: had to understand at some level, as long as Navarro

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Speaker 5: wasn't up in his ear at that very minute, that

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Speaker 5: this was a bad, bad outcome for him and for

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Speaker 5: his party. I mean, we're looking now at the main

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Speaker 5: parts of Trump's coalition, White working class voters are going

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Speaker 5: to take this right in the throat, and he knows that. Now.

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Speaker 5: Trump is not a smart man, but as we always say,

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Speaker 5: he has that fairal cunning about what he's got to

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Speaker 5: do to survive, and the idea that he is going

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Speaker 5: to let this thing go and continue to grind on

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Speaker 5: and to hurt him like it's been no chance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he still could let it go on

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Speaker 1: because I think if there's one thing we know about Trump,

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Speaker 1: it's that he's not organized. He likes taruffs see him

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Speaker 1: going either way on this because the truth is he's

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Speaker 1: completely insane, unpredictable and insane. But what I think is

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Speaker 1: important here is that that story doesn't get out unless

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Speaker 1: some people are not leaking it, which means, right, these

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Speaker 1: big leaked stories are the reason why Trump is not

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Speaker 1: going to succeed.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there are a number of reasons why Trump.

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Speaker 1: I think will ultimately not succeed this and one of

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Speaker 1: them is because we're not going to be cowards and

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Speaker 1: go move to Toronto. We are not going to obey

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Speaker 1: in advance like some people who moved to Toronto who

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Speaker 1: will not be mentioned on this podcast. It will never

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Speaker 1: be guests on this podcast again. But we will not

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Speaker 1: do that because we are here to fight with you

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Speaker 1: guys peacefully and smartly. And so that's one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons why Trump won't win. But another reason why is

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Speaker 1: because the incompetence and then also people covering their asses

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Speaker 1: like Scott Bessen saw. I think you got to assume

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Speaker 1: Latinik too. They saw the writing on the wall, they saw,

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Speaker 1: you know, their friends think they're fucking morons now.

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Speaker 5: I mean, these guys are definitely looking at a lifetime

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Speaker 5: of purgatory inside the financial community after this. They're not

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Speaker 5: going to be welcomed back around the table. They're not

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Speaker 5: going to have open arms from Jamie Diamond and Raydiel

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Speaker 5: and all those other people. They're not going to be

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Speaker 5: back in big deals ever. Again, maybe that doesn't matter

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Speaker 5: to them, but their reputations are now absolutely train wrecked

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Speaker 5: by this madness on Tariff's And again it goes back

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Speaker 5: to even Trump. Even Trump has a certain degree of

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Speaker 5: understanding when something's hurting him. And yeah, you know what,

442
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,919
Speaker 5: he could probably have talked himself into, Oh, I'll lose

443
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 5: two or three points on my faves, on my approvals,

444
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 5: but now he's lost between twelve and fifteen points on

445
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 5: his approvals.

446
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 3: He's as unpopular as he's ever been now.

447
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 5: Right, he has never been less popular, except for that

448
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 5: one small period after January.

449
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 3: Sixth, right, and when he did insurrection. You may remember

450
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 3: when he did insurrection.

451
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 5: When he tried to overthrow the United States, that little thing.

452
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 5: And I think, Molly, we're right now looking at at

453
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 5: a very bad few weeks for Trump because the damage

454
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 5: has already done that Chinese are absolutely owning him.

455
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the big problems right now for Trump.

456
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: Because here's what I say. He's alive, dude, No China

457
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: trade war. He's trying to pass.

458
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 3: These tax cuts not going to happen at this point.

459
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: Right There's some incredible reporting about Trump. There's no way

460
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: this will ever happen, about Trump saying that maybe he's

461
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: not going to do the tax cuts for very rich

462
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: people and instead do the tax cuts on tips.

463
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 3: Ha ha ha ha hilarious.

464
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, Trump has a very very meaningful problem, and a

465
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,719
Speaker 5: lot of his working class base are not people who

466
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 5: are making their money on tips. I mean, right now,

467
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 5: there's a big part of Trump's bace. Somebody was explaining

468
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 5: this to me today. When you take the combined effect

469
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 5: of tariffs on manufacturing, on trucking, on port workers, on

470
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 5: all the things that go into the blue collar supply chain,

471
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 5: Trump could not have screwed those people more effectively if

472
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 5: he tried. And the people that are going to be

473
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 5: truly angry, they're not just the waitresses earning tips or

474
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 5: the waiters earning tips or whatever demo that is. There

475
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 5: are many more people who have been harmed vastly more

476
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 5: by tariffs than would ever benefit from this tax on

477
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 5: tips garbage.

478
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but I also think, like you have China,

479
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: you have the tariffs, you have trying to pass this thing,

480
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 1: and then you also have another thing that happened this week,

481
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: which I want to do two menison Lisa Murkowski saying

482
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: that people are scared. But yeah, you know, we can

483
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: be cynical, we can be whatever. But that was meaningful.

484
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: Tell me why it's meaningful.

485
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 5: Murkowski is better than Susan Collins, which is sort of

486
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 5: damning with faint praise.

487
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 1: I know there are so few people who are doing

488
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: anything right.

489
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, the honest answer spoken aloud has long been what

490
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 5: holds Trump's power in place. They are afraid of retaliation,

491
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 5: and they're afraid of retaliation, be it political, be it physical.

492
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 5: They are terrified at the retaliation by Trump's base against them,

493
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 5: by Trump's operatives against them. And at some point, if

494
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 5: no one ever spoke out, it would continue indefinitely. But

495
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 5: she spoke out, and you've got to give her some

496
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 5: props for that. You've got to give her some praise

497
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 5: for that.

498
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 3: I know you're very not wanting to, but I'll give

499
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 3: her some praise.

500
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 5: No, No, I am going to give her some praise.

501
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 5: She did the right thing. And you know what, as

502
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 5: I always say, better right thing. Late than right thing.

503
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 5: Never she could easily take the next step and say,

504
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 5: you know what, I'm not a part of that caucus anymore.

505
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 5: I'm going to caucus with Angus King. We're going to

506
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 5: be a couple of independents. And every time you guys

507
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 5: want my vote, you have to come to me and

508
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 5: you have to work with me. You have to give

509
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 5: me a hearing on what I need and want. That

510
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 5: power that she could have is quite enormous, but you

511
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 5: have to take it. You can't You're not going to

512
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,959
Speaker 5: get somebody's going to give it to you.

513
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 3: You have to take that power, Rick Wilson.

514
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 5: It always goes so quickly when we talk.

515
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: Theodore Schleiffer is in your Time's Reporter, covering billionaires and

516
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: their impact on the world.

517
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 3: Welcome to Fast Politics, Steady.

518
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 6: Hi, thanks for having me.

519
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: You have been reporting out some of the most very

520
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: organized keeping track of what is happening. And I feel

521
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: like you started the story of tech bros And money,

522
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, this story of tech bros

523
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: and money intersected with the story of the federal government.

524
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: And now the federal government is made up of a

525
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: lot or at least the people running the federal government,

526
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: whether or not they're appointed or congressionally approved or now

527
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: there's a huge swath of bros in there working away.

528
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I mean people who I sort of

529
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 6: think of as not prominent Silicon Valley personalities have become

530
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 6: more prominent Washington personalities, where they're bigger than in politics

531
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 6: never were in technology. A lot of attention gets paid

532
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 6: by everybody to Elon Musk, but like I have been

533
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 6: fascinated by all the other kind of homies he's brought

534
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 6: with him who are ending up in positions are pretty

535
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 6: David Sacks, Yeah, I mean, I mean David Sack is

536
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 6: a good example. I mean he's somebody like, yes, he

537
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 6: was famous.

538
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 3: He was never famous, he wanted to be famous.

539
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 6: He was Silicon Valley famous. But now you know, people

540
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 6: around the globe track his tweets for the latest public

541
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 6: markets news. It's remarkable just to see the amount of

542
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 6: power that these people have taken, and it's something that

543
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 6: I did not anticipate, frankly, even though I was covering it.

544
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 3: Let's start with Elon. What's happening?

545
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal this week had this monster expose

546
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: where he has all these women that he meets on X.

547
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: And he dms them and then he sends them Sperman.

548
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 3: They have children. I think that's the net that story, right.

549
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 6: It's a highly abridged version of the you know, three

550
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 6: or four thousand words story, but I.

551
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: Mean, ultimately, that's what happened to this conservative influencer quote

552
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: unquote conservative quote unquote influencer, and that's what's happened to

553
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: other women, right.

554
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean the story sort of looks at, you know,

555
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 6: the unusual ways in which you know Elon has cultivated

556
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 6: these women. I was fascinated just about it as a

557
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 6: business story. It sort of like looking at like Jared Virtuell,

558
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 6: who is a well known character in my world, who

559
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 6: runs Musk's family office, you know, has to manage these

560
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 6: relationships and payouts and secrecy. And I've done no reporting

561
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 6: myself on that front, but it was remarkable to me

562
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 6: just to like think about what that job must be

563
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 6: must be, Like Molly, I mean, if you were the

564
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 6: wealth manager or the family office had for the biggest

565
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 6: richest person in the world, Like a lot of that

566
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 6: job is typically asset management, right.

567
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: It should be running a family office, but it is

568
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: paying off all of the children he had.

569
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 6: Presumably, well, you know, you get you're signed up for

570
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 6: i mean virtual as registered websites that are meant to

571
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 6: be Elon jokes before over the years, and is also

572
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 6: like he's involved with everything that that musk is doing.

573
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 6: I mean, Gired's been spot in DC since the inauguration,

574
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 6: and part of the job apparently is kind of dealing

575
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 6: with baby mamas and keeping every with everyone happy. And

576
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 6: I would I would be fascinating to know Jared's reaction

577
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 6: to that story, because it looked like, just as a reader,

578
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 6: it was basically all his texts to actually Saint Claara

579
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 6: were basically just leaked by her.

580
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 3: Presumably, Yeah, who could have seen that coming? Certainly not me?

581
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: What is that? Why would you leak all this stuff?

582
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 3: You know?

583
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: The thing that I thought was a little bit interesting

584
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: in that story was that the baby mama numbers there

585
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: are some people in there who speculated so much higher

586
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: than what we know.

587
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I don't know how you'd ever ever

588
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 6: totally know. I mean, obviously secrecy is a key part

589
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 6: of this, you know, Elon is presumably I mean, the

590
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 6: Journal report is doing this with lots of women, so

591
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 6: it's a hard thing to determine journalists. That's why, Molly,

592
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 6: you need that word at least, or that term at

593
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 6: least before you describe any kind of the of the

594
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 6: Musk progeny, because is it fourteen or is it at

595
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 6: least fourteen? Because that's ahead, I can allow you to

596
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 6: cover everything from fifteen to fifteen thousand.

597
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 3: At any number.

598
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: So let's talk about where Elon is explaining to us

599
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: sort of he paid for this presidency and he's still there, right.

600
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, though, I mean, we weird. The Times reported something

601
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 6: today that I thought was pretty interesting about how Musk

602
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 6: and Scott Bessent, the Treasury secretary who Elon originally wanted

603
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 6: not to get that job, have had sort of this

604
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 6: falling out this week over kind of who exactly was

605
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 6: going to be the acting head of the IRS, and

606
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 6: Musk and Vescent were fighting with one another, and Trump

607
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 6: sided with Bessent ultimately, and the guy that Elon wanted

608
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 6: in there was push out. There's always these questions about

609
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 6: where's the limit here. It's always been speculation, and there

610
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 6: have been It's not as Elon has gotten everything he's wanted,

611
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 6: but you know, an another l for him this week.

612
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: I mean, the autocracy is bad, but the tear seem

613
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: to have been the thing that have gotten a lot

614
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: of people upset. The tariffs have cost Elon billions of dollars?

615
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: Is there any do you see any daylight from that

616
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: between him and Trump?

617
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 6: So it was interesting that Musk was so public about

618
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 6: his position that he thought the tariffs should not be

619
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 6: put into place. You know, we haven't only seen Elon

620
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 6: respond to this kind of modifyed tyreff regime. Right, Trump

621
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 6: is put in places in ninety day pause for most

622
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 6: of them, and Musk is not weighed in on that,

623
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,719
Speaker 6: right like I mean, he was unhappy with the kind

624
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 6: of the most raconian version of this, and maybe in

625
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 6: ninety days he'll again be unhappy with that traconian version.

626
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 6: But what if we get into some place where we see,

627
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 6: you know, some targeted tariffs on some countries. You know,

628
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 6: it's of course impossible to ignore the complex of interest

629
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 6: here that Elon has, you know, particularly on China. More,

630
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 6: Testil has a time of business and he is uniquely

631
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 6: or not not uniquely, because he's not the only person

632
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 6: in the world, but he's certainly the only person in

633
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 6: the Trump administration who could be just so dependent on.

634
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 6: You know, they're not being a trede war between the

635
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 6: US and China. We'll see where he is in three months,

636
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 6: if he's happy with the end result.

637
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: When it's one hundred and thirty days, I mean, I

638
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: know the law is not so interesting to these people,

639
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: but when it is one hundred and thirty days, there

640
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: will be a question of whether or not. You know,

641
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: he's meant to have a cabinet appointment. Obviously I don't

642
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: know that that happens. But are you I mean, do

643
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: you get the sense that he's ever going to move on,

644
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: that there's any kind of real tension between him and Trump.

645
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: We've seen some reporting on that though, you know that sort.

646
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 6: Of it can be overstated at times. Yeah, I mean

647
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 6: Trump likes having him around, you know, Musk likes being there.

648
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 6: You know, there's this law which theoretically limits special government

649
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 6: employees like Elon Musk two one hundred and thirty days

650
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 6: in a calendar year. They'll all say, like, people play

651
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 6: games of that all the time. What does it really

652
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 6: mean to work in the White House? What doesn't really

653
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 6: mean to be working for the government, you know, in

654
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 6: this age of you.

655
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 4: Know, working for anywhere?

656
00:32:59,640 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: Low?

657
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean Democrats played games with this too. I

658
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 6: mean Anita Dunne was was a special government employee for

659
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 6: the buy An administration.

660
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 3: And she's so much like him too.

661
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 6: Could you see a world where Elon is like not

662
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 6: working for Trump the other two hundred and thirty days

663
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 6: of the year, but like, you know, he's talking to

664
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 6: Trump every single day. But you know, sometimes there's some

665
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 6: physical geography questions here, you know. I saw on a

666
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 6: story recently about David Sachs, there was some reporting that

667
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 6: well Sacks is going to be who's also a special

668
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 6: government employee, that the Hill only be in California every

669
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 6: other week, so therefore it's away for him to get

670
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 6: around one hundred and thirty day thing.

671
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 4: There's gonna be a lot of games with that.

672
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 3: So you don't think there's any world in which they

673
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 3: follow any of that.

674
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 5: I don't know.

675
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 6: I just I just think there's a lot you know,

676
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 6: there's a lot of holes in that Swiss cheese there,

677
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 6: and I think there's a lot of people who can get.

678
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 5: Around it cleverly.

679
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 6: And then that's a time warn tradition, and I'm sure

680
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 6: Elon would at least explore it, right, I mean, at

681
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 6: least explore if there's a way to kind of maintain

682
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 6: his status as a special government employee while staying involved.

683
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: Don't as this wall of receipts they took down so

684
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: likely because of some of the very good reporting from

685
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:13,479
Speaker 1: you and also from David Fhrenholm that they took down

686
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: like one of the big savings because it wasn't it

687
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: never happened, or it was sort of thought of happening.

688
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: You know, it was a Schrodinger's contract. So we're seeing

689
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: they're really not saving much money. In fact, there's an

690
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: argument to be made. It's sort of the opposite. Talk

691
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: to me about that.

692
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 6: Yeah, the wall over seats, we love it. Yeah, I mean,

693
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 6: I mean I should say thank you for that, But

694
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 6: I feel like Farenhold has been kind of owning that

695
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 6: for us. I mean, essentially, at least as a reporter.

696
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 6: I'm like kind of surprised when something's posted there that

697
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 6: is accurate, that feels like news to me. I think

698
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 6: people are wise enough to know now that you know,

699
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 6: any claim that Musk makes about anything requires, you know,

700
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 6: some skepticism. But you know, they've called this the most

701
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 6: transparent government project ever, the most transparent administration ever. You know,

702
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 6: they certainly talk a lot.

703
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 3: No evidence to support that, but yeah, it's continued.

704
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 6: They certainly talk a lot. And and you know the

705
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 6: wall over seats. You know, I'm glad it's there. I

706
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 6: rather have it there than not there, Right, but.

707
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,919
Speaker 3: A lot has been had to have been taken off

708
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 3: the wall.

709
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, what does that mean? What does that mean to you?

710
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 3: Taken off the wall because it was wrong?

711
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 4: Yeah?

712
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 6: Like, what what do you think is going on there?

713
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: Oh?

714
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 3: What do I think's going on with the wall of seats?

715
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: I think that some of it's wrong and some of

716
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: it is just trying to get away with whatever you

717
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: can get away with. But my question is if it's

718
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: hard to make the case that he's saving the government money.

719
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: He's wildly unpopular, right, Like his polling is terrible, right,

720
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: even like from Wisconsin, that Wisconsin Supreme Court race, we

721
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: saw that only five percent of cold people said that

722
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 1: they were more likely to vote for a candidate because

723
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: Mosque was involved. Must poured you know, one hundred million

724
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: dollars into that race. So he's not popular. Here's like

725
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: thirty million, thirty million, but there was all together one

726
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: hundred million into that. Sorry, but he's not popular. And

727
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: he's also not necessarily cutting the spending. Right, those numbers

728
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: just keep going down and down. So how does the

729
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: administration spin him sell him?

730
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 6: Well, I think politically what we're getting at is, you know,

731
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 6: Trump and I did a story with my colleagues about this,

732
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 6: right for Wisconsin. You know, Trump is to some extent

733
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 6: comfortable with Musk is a little bit of a heat shield.

734
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 6: Right that basically he's a way for you know, Democrats

735
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 6: being mad at him and protest him, and then you know,

736
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 6: theoretically he can be discarded, but at the time of

737
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 6: Trump's choosing. But I guess I find myself a little

738
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 6: bit more contrarian here. And this is based on the

739
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 6: reporting that we've done. Like, I do not think Trump

740
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 6: is tired of Elan being around. I think he's politically useful.

741
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 6: I think Trump sees Elon, as he says publicly, as

742
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 6: a saber rattler in a way to kind of shake

743
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 6: up the system, and Trump likes that. I do think

744
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 6: there are risks with that approach, just say nothing of policy,

745
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 6: but on politics for Trump, you know, especially on so security,

746
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 6: which is something that Trump does not want to disrupt

747
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 6: in any significant way, at least benefits. But you know,

748
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 6: I find a lot of the reporting that or or

749
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 6: speculation that you know, Elon's gonna go on any day now,

750
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 6: is it a bit overstated?

751
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 3: It's been going on forever or so.

752
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 6: Right, that's been going on since day one?

753
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: Right, But what about like all of these other MAGA personalities,

754
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: for example, like Sax is the cryptosar whatever that means.

755
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 6: And AI crypto and AI.

756
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 3: Oh excellent, lucky ass. What does sas do? And does

757
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 3: Sacks annoy people?

758
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: I mean, these are very wealthy people, not used to

759
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: getting along with others. Now they are working in the

760
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: federal government. Like, how is this working?

761
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 3: Yeah?

762
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 6: I haven't done any reporting on kind of whether Sacks

763
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 6: is grading on people.

764
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 3: Is Elon grading on people?

765
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 6: I think he's great on some staff. I think on

766
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,959
Speaker 6: others he's not. You know, Sax is an interesting character.

767
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 6: I mean, he he It's been funny to me to watch,

768
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 6: not that Twitter is everything, but like Sax's job is

769
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,320
Speaker 6: crypto and AIS are, but yet he has seems to

770
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 6: have enormous amounts of free range just comment on anything,

771
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 6: you know, like in a way that you know you'd

772
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 6: forget he's the White House staffer or White House are like, like, typically,

773
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 6: you know, I think we're forgetting because we're in Trump

774
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 6: Land and we're forgetting kind of how nuts the stuff is.

775
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 6: But like typically, you know, if you are the crypto

776
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 6: and ai Zar, right, you just talk about the issues

777
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 6: you're an expert in and like on Twitter, like Sacks

778
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 6: like here's my opinion on Ukraine, right right, right, what

779
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 6: she was doing before he was in the government. But

780
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 6: like there seems to be no inhibition that I'm doing that.

781
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 6: Like also to you know, he's still on the All

782
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 6: In podcast regularly. Is that cleared by anybody or is

783
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 6: that just kind of.

784
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 3: Like Ted Cruz, I mean that's yeah, why not?

785
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 6: Yeah? But I just have wondered, like what exactly his

786
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 6: job is and isn't And like people have glory lines

787
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 6: to the gig they do, but like Sacks seems to

788
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 6: just be sickly continuing to being influencer at the same

789
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 6: time he is, you know, having this kind of government

790
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 6: bureaucratic policy job right.

791
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 3: No, now for sure, and that's true with quite a

792
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 3: lot of people in this administration.

793
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 6: Right well, definitely they've started using this kind of special

794
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 6: government employee status. I mean to do a lot of

795
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 6: stuff that enable that it gives you, you know, free reign.

796
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 6: The counter argument to that, Molly would be like, it's

797
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 6: not as if like she's a random TRENP official. It's

798
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 6: not as if like Sergio Gore right, who's the head

799
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 6: of the White House Personnel Office, It's not as if

800
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 6: he's like tweeting every day like here are my personal

801
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 6: opinions about you know, like issue X.

802
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 4: Right.

803
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,959
Speaker 6: I mean, typically you are a staff member, you work

804
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 6: for the president, and you don't have this media profile

805
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 6: that unless maybe if you're a cabinet member right where

806
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 6: you go on TV and you talk about your personal

807
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 6: opinions sort of I feel like Sachs and then some

808
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 6: of the tech people have been able to maintain their

809
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 6: roles as like content makers and tastemakers and influencers at

810
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 6: the same time they have these kind of policy jobs.

811
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 6: And we're three or four months in they've been getting

812
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 6: away with it. So there seems to be totally no issue.

813
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: But here's the question that I don't understand, right, is

814
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: that I don't get if if they're running, they're like

815
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: known to be whatever policy billionaire geniuses, and Trump is

816
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: doing these terms which are super unpopular and making people

817
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 1: just normal Joe's think that he's bad at finance. How

818
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: do they continue going this way?

819
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 6: You mean, if like people think that these smart guys

820
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 6: aren't that smart, what's what's going on here?

821
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 4: Yeah?

822
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 6: I mean people have survived in jobs and not being

823
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 6: smart for a very long time, and you.

824
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 4: For just long enough.

825
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: So good on America, right, thank you, Teddy?

826
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 6: You bet no moment, Rick Wilson, Yes, Molly.

827
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 3: What is your moment of fuck? Gray?

828
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,439
Speaker 5: My moa went a fuckery this week is the very

829
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 5: existence of Pamela Joe. That's j O Bondi. I can't

830
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 5: with that name, but Bondi has been out this week

831
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 5: front End Center as loud as she can, screaming that

832
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 5: Abrigo Garcia is a thug, a monster, a terrorist, a criminal,

833
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 5: a gangbanger, a thief, a wife abuser, and she fucking

834
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 5: knows better, She absolutely knows better. But she's playing this

835
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 5: for Fox, and she's playing this for Steven Miller, and

836
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 5: she's playing this for clicks.

837
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 3: Doesn't want to get fired by Trump.

838
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 5: Well, I find it as the person who is the

839
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 5: Attorney General of the United States, her behavior is such

840
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 5: an affront to that position that you know, if she

841
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 5: had a brain and moral she resigned, but she works

842
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 5: for the Trump administration, so she doesn't. But I just

843
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,439
Speaker 5: find it. I find it deeply shitty that she has

844
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 5: no compunction whatsoever about telling this lie at scale every day.

845
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 5: I find it offensive. I find that I find it disturbing,

846
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 5: And yes, you know what she is going to all

847
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 5: always play this role. She's obedient, she is compliant. She's

848
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 5: exactly what Trump wants in that regard, but it is

849
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 5: not what the country wants, and it is not if

850
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 5: you're the Attorney General of the United States of America,

851
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 5: what you should be doing. She's on my fucking list,

852
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 5: Let's put it that way.

853
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

854
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best

855
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

856
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

857
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going.

858
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.