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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of four,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Hunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On

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Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our

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Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode ninety. Today we're going

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Speaker 1: to be talking with Sharon von Harrel, who is coming

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Speaker 1: to us from the Netherlands, so our wonderful technology is

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Speaker 1: putting us in touch there. She is an executive high

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Speaker 1: up at a major insurance from there. So she's going

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Speaker 1: to talk with us both about corporate life, about managing

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Speaker 1: large numbers of people, and about sort of the Dutch

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Speaker 1: part time culture and how she decided to do things

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Speaker 1: a little bit differently. We're interested in hearing how people

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Speaker 1: all over the world manage work and life. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: we wanted to first start with somebody else who is

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Speaker 1: taking on responsibilities and changing up her work, her different

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Speaker 1: amount of part time. It's hardly even part time anymore,

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Speaker 1: Sarah tell us about the evolution of the percentage. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so I am going to be going from eighty percent

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Speaker 1: to ninety percent in June. I am not going to

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Speaker 1: go into super significant details because my contract's completely signed,

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Speaker 1: but not all of the interested parties have all of

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Speaker 1: the information yet, So I guess it's as much as

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Speaker 1: I can really say about the breakdown of my work.

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Speaker 1: But I guess I can say I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: doing a little bit more leadership, have a little bit

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Speaker 1: more flexibility, and I am taking less call That shouldn't

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Speaker 1: really negatively impact any of my colleagues, because the idea

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Speaker 1: would be that we would get another clinical person to

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Speaker 1: make up for what I am not devoting to the

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Speaker 1: clinical sphere, since part of my work will be in

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Speaker 1: a different sphere. Anyway, it's all really good things. I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited about it. I think my job, as I've

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Speaker 1: continued to grow, has just I've been able to expand

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Speaker 1: the areas that really fit my strengths and reduce the

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Speaker 1: areas that I'm not as big of a fan of.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of that is I'm lucky to

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Speaker 1: be in an organization where these opportunities are there, and

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Speaker 1: I'm just really excited. And what ninety percent means from

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Speaker 1: a practical scenario is basically one half day off every

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Speaker 1: other week or twenty six additional days off per year,

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Speaker 1: and if you think about it, a fairly standard leave package,

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Speaker 1: at least in my experience, is between you know, twenty

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Speaker 1: five and thirty days off per year to use as

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Speaker 1: one sees fit. That's about what we have. So I

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Speaker 1: essentially have double leave, so I have the normal amount

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Speaker 1: of PTO times to and then the rest of the

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Speaker 1: time a'mout my job, and I think that is going

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Speaker 1: to be enough for me, especially as as you know,

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Speaker 1: Genevieve is going to be in school, So I don't

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Speaker 1: even it's not even like there's some kids specific thing

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Speaker 1: to be home for, even if I did feel like

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Speaker 1: that was a necessity, and clearly I can't feel like

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Speaker 1: that's that much of a necessity because I spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of my mornings off doing podcast stuff and that's

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Speaker 1: a choice and I enjoy it, and I spend other

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Speaker 1: time with Genevieve, like I can go to Jimberree with

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Speaker 1: her sometimes, but I don't spend every moment that I

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Speaker 1: have off from my job doing things with my children,

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Speaker 1: and so I guess I just I feel like this

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Speaker 1: is going to work really well. I get a small

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Speaker 1: pay increase, of course, which is nice, and yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: just really excited, and I think there will still be

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Speaker 1: enough time to do the podcast. You know, we spend

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Speaker 1: about half a day recording. It's like the behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes look right now. Every couple of weeks, i'd say, right, Laura,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm wondering if we could start doing more

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Speaker 1: three first, where we do three episodes at once, just

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Speaker 1: to increase our efficiency, although sometimes that can feel really

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Speaker 1: like a long morning. Yeah, I think we stop doing

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Speaker 1: that at one point because we're just like, that is true,

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Speaker 1: Am I saying the same thing that I said two

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Speaker 1: hours ago? But we're so good at this now, It's true,

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Speaker 1: that is true. We do get better. Yeah, I'm up

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Speaker 1: for throing three at a time, that's see what happens.

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Speaker 1: I think there's still room in my life for that.

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Speaker 1: And then as I reflected on that, I did start

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Speaker 1: to feel like this it's not a job, because it's

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Speaker 1: something that I really love to do, but this has

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Speaker 1: been much more coming for me than from Laura. I

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Speaker 1: felt like, maybe we do need to move in the

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Speaker 1: direction of having some sponsors and getting something in exchange

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Speaker 1: for the time that we put into this, because it's

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Speaker 1: pretty real if you actually add it up. So maybe

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Speaker 1: at some point you may hear some additional things in

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Speaker 1: this podcast. Maybe you won't. We're looking into a number

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Speaker 1: of options. We will. We've taken some of your feedback already,

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Speaker 1: both I think on Laura's blog and maybe on Insta

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Speaker 1: somewhere somewhere else. Anyway you can let us know what

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Speaker 1: you think. But yeah, so that's where we are just

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Speaker 1: to yeah, have have some sort of financial return on

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Speaker 1: the time invested in and also knowing that it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a you know, good podcast that we hope people will.

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Speaker 1: We do think it's good, and part of it is

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Speaker 1: maybe we'd like to see it grow. So number one,

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Speaker 1: continue to please spread the word. We love when that happens.

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Speaker 1: But number two, by professionalizing it a little bit, it

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Speaker 1: might allow us to get more resources to spread the

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Speaker 1: word a little bit better. So who knows, maybe this

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Speaker 1: could actually help just get more involvement. Although we do

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Speaker 1: cherish the listeners we already have and we feel lucky

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Speaker 1: to have you all. Thank you. Definitely definitely looking to

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Speaker 1: keep growing. So please tell your your friends that you

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Speaker 1: found the perfect podcast, and I'm sure they'll be happy

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Speaker 1: that you share that with them. Yeah. No, so it's

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Speaker 1: very exciting going back up to ninety percent. But you

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Speaker 1: thought it wouldn't quite work to do one hundred percent,

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Speaker 1: and well, the biggest reason I felt like I couldn't

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Speaker 1: do that is because I really do well, not just

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Speaker 1: a podcast. I like being able to say to have

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Speaker 1: pretty copious PCO so that when I have a kid event,

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm carving into work time. Now

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Speaker 1: I probably will have more flexibility, and I know that

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Speaker 1: other people probably would see things differently and feel just

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Speaker 1: fine about it, and then they feel like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to work at night to make up for toever.

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Speaker 1: But I guess I just want more margin, and I

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Speaker 1: want the margin to be official. So I'm I think

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Speaker 1: ninety percent is the right plus again with the podcast,

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Speaker 1: and particularly if we do expand it. I certainly don't

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Speaker 1: want to be seen as double dipping or spending official

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Speaker 1: work time on this podcast, because that would not be

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Speaker 1: appropriate and not be fair to anyone, so I think

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Speaker 1: I need that dedicated time. Yeah. Well, it's very exciting.

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Speaker 1: It's always exciting to see, you know, people's careers evolve

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Speaker 1: and grow, and this podcast is going to be evolving

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Speaker 1: and growing too. And so we'll be now talking with

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Speaker 1: our guest about her career evolving and growing over time

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Speaker 1: and how she came into a leadership role. So I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited about that. Sarah and I are excited to

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Speaker 1: welcome Sharon to the podcast. Sharon, can you introduce yourself

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Speaker 1: to our listeners. Yes, hello, my name is Sharon van

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Speaker 1: Hirel or in Dutch Charon von Hirol. I'm a thirty

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Speaker 1: eight year old Dutch woman, as you can understand from

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Speaker 1: what I previously said, and I live in Rotterdam, which

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Speaker 1: is the second biggest city in my country. I'm married

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Speaker 1: to Eric, who is a senior project developer for an

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Speaker 1: energy company, and I'm also the mother of two kids.

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Speaker 1: I have a son he's eight, and a daughter she's

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Speaker 1: almost six. And on top of that, I'm also the

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Speaker 1: managing director of an insurance company and currently heading around

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Speaker 1: three hundred people. So that's basically my life, yeah, which

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Speaker 1: is a full life lot going on. So tell us

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Speaker 1: about your sort of career journey, because you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you grew up wanting to be in

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Speaker 1: the insurance industry or this is something that came to

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Speaker 1: you later, But how did you wind up in this position? Well,

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Speaker 1: the fun part is nobody grows up thinking that he

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Speaker 1: goes into the insurance industry. This is always a joke

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Speaker 1: we always make. I grew up and I definitely wanted

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Speaker 1: to be a lawyer, and that's exactly what I did.

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Speaker 1: So after my high school, I trained as a lawyer.

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Speaker 1: I went to university to law school, and afterwards I

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Speaker 1: trained as a lawyer and I enjoyed the profession very much.

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Speaker 1: And I was in that profession for a little over

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Speaker 1: five and a half years. And then at one point

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Speaker 1: I was working a lot for insurance companies and they

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Speaker 1: invited me over to there were my clients, and I

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Speaker 1: was there to give a presentation. And the moment I

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Speaker 1: stepped into this particular insurance company, I felt, Wow, this

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Speaker 1: is a cool company and nice people, intelligent and nice

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Speaker 1: work that they do. And in my mind I was

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Speaker 1: already doubting a little bit the law profession at that time,

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Speaker 1: because if you're a lawyer, and especially when you're trained

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Speaker 1: after a few years, you're very expensive per hour and

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Speaker 1: you're basically paid to defend black or white if you

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Speaker 1: work in litigation, and that's really not my style. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: I'm a very pragmatic person. And when I went to

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Speaker 1: this insurance company, they were very opening. I'm welcoming to

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Speaker 1: me and they said, well, you know, would you like

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Speaker 1: to have a job here? And there was like half

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Speaker 1: a joke because I thought, no way that a senior

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Speaker 1: lawyer will will transfer to our industry because it's a

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Speaker 1: lot that will less pay and less status, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And exactly at that point in time, I was very

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Speaker 1: open to the idea. So I said, well, let me

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Speaker 1: think about it, and after one night of sleep, I thought, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: take the plunge and go right in. So that's how

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Speaker 1: it happened for me. And did you imagine that you'd, well,

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Speaker 1: I want to hear more of your journey. But did

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Speaker 1: you at that time think well, I could get increasing

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Speaker 1: levels of leadership and I bet I could grow there

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Speaker 1: or were you just sort of like, eh, throw my

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Speaker 1: hat in the ring. Let's see what happens. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what happened exactly. I didn't go there, you know,

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Speaker 1: with a predefined idea about me going into management or anything.

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Speaker 1: It was very intuitive decision at the time. I just

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Speaker 1: felt that I wanted to make the switch, and this

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Speaker 1: was the perfect opportunity. Was again in my hometown, and

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Speaker 1: I had quite a commute for that working for the

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Speaker 1: law firm. I didn't really feel in a good place

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Speaker 1: there anymore. So when this was offered, I thought, let's

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Speaker 1: just switch and see what life brings. And I didn't

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Speaker 1: regret it at all. There was a big shock at

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Speaker 1: first because I switched to this profession and then literally

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Speaker 1: the whole work life balance thing changed dramatically for me,

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Speaker 1: which is you know, inherent to the insurance industry, or

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Speaker 1: maybe it's more inherent to the law profession. That I

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Speaker 1: went to work there and then at five pm in

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Speaker 1: the afternoon was like, where's everybody going? You know, what's

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Speaker 1: happening here? And for me, after you know, more than

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Speaker 1: five and a half years and university and all the

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Speaker 1: stuff before that, it was really weird. So I took

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Speaker 1: up several hobbies. At the first year, I was really

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Speaker 1: amazed by my freedom and I had some time for

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Speaker 1: hobbies that was brilliant. And then I said, well, that's

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Speaker 1: a postgraduate degree. And then I had my son. And

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Speaker 1: when I returned from my first maternity leave with my son,

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Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, now it's time for stuff to

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Speaker 1: start happening again. And at that point, the insurance company

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Speaker 1: I was working for was being taken over by a

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Speaker 1: larger insurance company, which is where I'm working today, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of middle managers left the company because they

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Speaker 1: could not agree to this move where we're afraid of

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Speaker 1: their position or whatever. And I just was like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to raise my hand because why not.

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Speaker 1: And that was very funny because they were like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we never thought of you because you are the latest edition,

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Speaker 1: you are one of the youngest, you just return from

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Speaker 1: your maternity leave. But well we're a full blown crisis here,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, sure, why not. So this is how I

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Speaker 1: became a manager. Was not really a predefined idea that

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Speaker 1: was written down somewhere in my five year plan, not

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Speaker 1: at all. No, Sometimes raising your hand is just what

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Speaker 1: it takes. And yeah, a near time of crisis in

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Speaker 1: the company and there's somebody who's going to step in.

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Speaker 1: I say, go for the person who steps in, so

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Speaker 1: you know, real quick, because we want to clear up

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Speaker 1: something for our We have probably majority American listeners who

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Speaker 1: always think that like all of Europe has like two

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Speaker 1: years of maternity, which is not actually true in the Netherlands, right,

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Speaker 1: you guys are one of the shorter ones in Europe. Right,

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Speaker 1: what's the standard there? The Senate the sixteen weeks and

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Speaker 1: usually you take four weeks or six weeks before that,

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Speaker 1: and the remaining weeks that you have left out a

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Speaker 1: ten or twelve is after you have the baby, so

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Speaker 1: it's quite it's four months, and I think that's very

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Speaker 1: you know, convenient, because I know and I compare this

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Speaker 1: to other countries around US, where the maternity leaves are

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Speaker 1: much longer, and it's actually much more difficult for women

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Speaker 1: to return because if you leave for a year, well

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Speaker 1: then your employer might have some sort of preconceived idea

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Speaker 1: that you will not be in for promotion soon, or

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Speaker 1: it happens. I see this happening to women, especially in

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Speaker 1: Germany because my company is originally German, and I talk

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Speaker 1: to a lot of German colleagues, and there the maternity

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Speaker 1: leave is much longer, but it also disqualifies you sometimes

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Speaker 1: or puts your career on hold for a longer time,

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Speaker 1: whereas with us, well, what is sixteen weeks? You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like a little bit of a sabbatical and then

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Speaker 1: you're back again. So yeah, that's cool. That's pretty much

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Speaker 1: a lot of Americans. Yeah, yeah, it is pretty close.

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Speaker 1: And my face, I made a face. We're doing this

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Speaker 1: via video about the pre maternity part because it's such

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Speaker 1: an American thing to like have your water break at work,

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Speaker 1: and I cannot imagine to like leave four weeks before

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Speaker 1: and put my feet up. I probably would go into

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Speaker 1: labor if that had happened. But that's that's so interesting.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is a time that your body's under

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Speaker 1: a lot of stress. It probably makes sense, it probably helps.

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Speaker 1: I would love to see data on whether there are

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Speaker 1: you know, that is one factor that might improve infant

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Speaker 1: mortality and infant morbidity and all kinds of things. So fascinating. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you know, so the Dutch maternity leave is on

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Speaker 1: the shorter side in the EU. But you guys have

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Speaker 1: a sort of unique aspect of your women and work

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Speaker 1: culture that you know, you would explain to me, can

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Speaker 1: you explain that to listeners in terms of yeah, for sure, well,

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Speaker 1: typical Dutch, we are part time society. It's it's part

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Speaker 1: time paradise here in terms of especially for women. Seventy

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Speaker 1: four percent of Dutch women and I mean all working

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Speaker 1: age women, so not even just moms, they work part time.

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Speaker 1: So it's like a lifestyle choice. We can obviously afford

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Speaker 1: to do it. It has grown that way. And I

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Speaker 1: even remember my mom, you know, having me in the

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Speaker 1: eighties meant that she was fired from her job. There

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Speaker 1: was you know, that just happened. That was quite normal

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Speaker 1: at the time. So we come from a situation where

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Speaker 1: working full time for women, especially if you have kids,

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Speaker 1: is not the standard. So that's quite a challenge sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Also for me, when I had my son, it was obvious,

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Speaker 1: it was not even it was a no brainer for me.

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Speaker 1: Of course I would start working part time. Now I

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Speaker 1: was ambitious, so I kept at it for four days

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Speaker 1: a week. But around me people were making choices of

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Speaker 1: maybe three days a week or two days a week,

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Speaker 1: and that puts us at a serious disadvantage if you

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Speaker 1: look at leadership positions, because this is something and that's

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Speaker 1: also shown in statistics. Once you got part time, it's

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Speaker 1: very difficult to scale up again because and even why

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Speaker 1: because we're like, hey, it's great, you know, it's literally

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Speaker 1: the best of both worlds sometimes, but there is a

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Speaker 1: downside to that. If you don't stay in the workforce

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Speaker 1: for four days, then it's very difficult to be considered

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Speaker 1: for a leadership a position later on. And on the

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Speaker 1: other side of the medal, I use it as my

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Speaker 1: advantage as well, because it was completely accepted that I

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Speaker 1: went back to work for four days a week. Nobody

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Speaker 1: frowned upon that they would have if I would have

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Speaker 1: come back for five days a week. And at the

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Speaker 1: same time, it never hindered my career because I was

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Speaker 1: still able to become a team manager, first of an

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Speaker 1: eleven people team. Then I got promoted to heading an

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Speaker 1: entire claims department sixty people, and now I was promoted

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Speaker 1: to being the well the managing director slash CEO of

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Speaker 1: a company. At the time, still on the four day

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Speaker 1: a week schedule, which by the way, has changed in

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Speaker 1: this position because now I'm working five days a week,

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Speaker 1: although I still stick to the plan. On Fridays, Friday

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Speaker 1: is my day traditionally to take care of the kids.

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Speaker 1: Now they go to school, but I still leave the

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Speaker 1: building at five minutes to three just before school ends

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Speaker 1: because it's my day and everybody you know doesn't mind.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's the other side of the metal. For women,

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Speaker 1: it is accepted to do it in an alternative way.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting because I think you had mentioned that

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Speaker 1: your husband he didn't feel that. There's not the same

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Speaker 1: sort of assumption that men will work per time, even

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Speaker 1: though you were I think out earning him. It was

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Speaker 1: a sense that you would go to four days or

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Speaker 1: three days or whatever, that that's the assumption, even though

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Speaker 1: you were earning, earning more than he was. So it's

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Speaker 1: a very strong cultural norm, right, It's a very strong

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Speaker 1: cultural thing. And of course when we were you know,

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Speaker 1: first in love, etcetera, we talked about the future and

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Speaker 1: it was definitely, oh, you will do four days. I

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Speaker 1: will do four days, you know, ideal worlds, and then

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Speaker 1: reality hits and you're like, well, but of course I

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Speaker 1: will do four days. I was like, no discussion, not

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Speaker 1: even that he wanted it. I wanted to do it

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Speaker 1: that way because I didn't see anyone else doing something else.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I did. And then financially it didn't

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Speaker 1: make sense. We had grandparents, they were very eager to babysit.

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Speaker 1: We have good daycare, so we were like, well, you

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Speaker 1: just keep at it for five days a week. But

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Speaker 1: that did change when my son went to school and

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Speaker 1: the logistics became a little bit more complicated when he

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Speaker 1: was four, and I also woke up and I thought,

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Speaker 1: why why do we actually do this arrangement because it

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Speaker 1: doesn't really make sense, and financially we can also do

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Speaker 1: it differently, but also from a balanced perspective, Why am

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Speaker 1: I the only one you know working four days a week?

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Speaker 1: This should be more equal, And we changed it, and

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Speaker 1: I must say more and more it's accepted for men

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Speaker 1: to work four days a week. There's no steady data

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Speaker 1: on whether or not that hampers any career advancement, but

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Speaker 1: so far for him it's worked out brilliant. And actually

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Speaker 1: his free day is our free afternoon these days is

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Speaker 1: Wednesday afternoon when the kids are off from school and

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Speaker 1: many dads are on the school on the playfield on

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Speaker 1: Wednesday afternoon. It's really like the daddies do have coffee dates,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. In the more so, more and more normal

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Speaker 1: but again for a certain you know, income group. It's

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Speaker 1: not for everyone, of course, because it costs money. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course. And so tied with that though, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what are the Dutch kind of daycare availability and is

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Speaker 1: it then structured on the assumption that mom is only

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Speaker 1: working three or four days a week and for a

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Speaker 1: certain number of hours. I remember that there was one

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Speaker 1: kid in our daycare that came there for five days

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Speaker 1: a week and everybody was like, oh my god, that's

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Speaker 1: so shameful. So honestly, we're very bad in that perspective

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Speaker 1: because everybody is working three or four days and never

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Speaker 1: you know, taking their kids to daycare for I think

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Speaker 1: four days is even in an exception, because many people

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Speaker 1: build up a schedule made of a few days of daycare.

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Speaker 1: It's not cheap, so that's an investment. There's always one

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Speaker 1: grandparent at least, you know, willing to cover one of

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Speaker 1: the days in the week, and then there's mom, usually

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Speaker 1: mom at least for one day a week, and maybe

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Speaker 1: even dad. So it's always a mixture of different things.

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Speaker 1: And taking your kids today care for five days a

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Speaker 1: week is really an exception in my country. Interesting, But

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Speaker 1: so then you I mean, at some point, I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, we had talked about this. You are sitting

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Speaker 1: there and saying, I'm doing housework on Fridays, Like, why

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Speaker 1: could I just not be at work? I mean, honestly exactly,

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Speaker 1: And so this happened to me. Yeah, so you decided

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Speaker 1: to go back to five days a week. And did

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Speaker 1: you get any pushback on that? I mean from extended family,

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Speaker 1: from your community, from people, I mean, even though clearly,

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Speaker 1: you know, running your insurance company, it's probably higher economic

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Speaker 1: value than you washing your flowers on Fridays. But did

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Speaker 1: you get pushback on this idea? Yes? What happened is

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Speaker 1: that when my daughter went to school, which is now

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Speaker 1: almost two years ago, after the summer she I was

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Speaker 1: having these fridays off, and I had all sorts of

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Speaker 1: romantic ideas about yoga, book reading, et cetera. Old stuff

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Speaker 1: that I do anyway, but this was now to have

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Speaker 1: on Friday morning. What actually happened is that I started

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Speaker 1: running around for groceries so that everything would be prepped

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Speaker 1: for the weekend. You know, really horrible mistake. Additional housework,

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Speaker 1: which I honestly don't need to do because I've outsourced

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Speaker 1: that for a long time already so this Friday was

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Speaker 1: not really working. And then I decided, because I was

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Speaker 1: doing an international project and not really getting to that

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Speaker 1: in the other four days, let's just go into the office,

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Speaker 1: you know, voluntarily doing some hours and working on this

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Speaker 1: project because I'm really dedicated. And then when they offered

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Speaker 1: me this job, I was like, I'm definitely coming back

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Speaker 1: on Fridays now because you know, actually I'm here all

408
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Speaker 1: week anyway, why not get paid for that as well?

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Speaker 1: And I think it also fits my current responsibility in

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Speaker 1: terms of pushback. Actually, since I've had kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: four days a week and assuming a leadership role, first

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Speaker 1: a small role, people say, oh yeah, very cool for you.

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Speaker 1: Then assuming a larger role at a young age, building

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Speaker 1: a huge department, well huge for Dutch standards, sixty people

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Speaker 1: a claims department. People are like, oh my god, you're

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Speaker 1: so brave. You're doing it all. You have small kids

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Speaker 1: and you have this job. And I was always looking

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Speaker 1: at them a little bit like, are you insulting me

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Speaker 1: right now? Because you know, for me, my life is

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Speaker 1: just working very well actually, And especially when they then

421
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Speaker 1: learn that you read books, that you run a marathon,

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Speaker 1: and that you do all this additional stuff. They're always

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Speaker 1: looking like she must be hiding skeletons somewhere. You know,

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Speaker 1: her marriage must be bad, or her kids must be neglected,

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Speaker 1: or you feel this. It's sometimes it's real interest and

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Speaker 1: other times I think your question is just asking for

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Speaker 1: you know, what is going on for real? Now, just

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Speaker 1: be honest with me, and especially in this job. Now

429
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 1: I work full time and people, well they know me

430
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 1: by now. You know, it's becoming a thing that I'm

431
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 1: also an advocate for this lifestyle, and I say, guys,

432
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 1: you don't need to miss out on anything. And of

433
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: course it all depends on and this is always my

434
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 1: story to everyone. It's about creating a life that works

435
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: for you. Now. For me, logistics, for example, are a

436
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: big thing. I live in the street where my company

437
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 1: is located, so it's literally eight hundred meters. My kids

438
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: school is a street behind my office, which I'm very

439
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,400
Speaker 1: lucky to get a position there, so basically I can

440
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: do the school runs myself. If there's something going on,

441
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 1: I'll be there within three four minutes. It's perfect like this,

442
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: and I do understand that it would be different if

443
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 1: I haven't a commuter for an hour or more, but

444
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: this is the life I created for myself and that's

445
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 1: why it works so well. So no, not suffering, even

446
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: though some people are suggesting that I definitely am suffering

447
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: or somebody is suffering. Yeah, I am so comforted to hear.

448
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 1: I don't know that the universality of some of these

449
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: things because I've definitely had such a similar experience talking

450
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,199
Speaker 1: to people, and because I did go part time and

451
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: now I'm ramping it up a little bit. It's just

452
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: I think this will resonate with a lot of our

453
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: listeners as well. What we're going to say, Laura, Oh no,

454
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 1: I was just saying, So, Sharon, I mean you were

455
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: taking on your bigger leadership role, and at first the

456
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: leaders under you, so you're meddal managers under you were

457
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 1: all men, right, because there is a glass ceiling issue

458
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: here of like who winds up in management. It's not

459
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 1: the people working three days a week, as you said,

460
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: And so you first started taking over and all the

461
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 1: leaders under you are men. So that how did that go?

462
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: And then you change things? I believe I changed things

463
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: around a little bit. What happened is when I came

464
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: into the management team as a claims director almost four

465
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: years ago, I was the only female at the time,

466
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: and I didn't think anything about you know, about that.

467
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 1: I was like, well, you're just you're doing what you

468
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 1: need to do. You're surviving in this environment, and you know,

469
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 1: people are nice. There was nothing really going on. But

470
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: at some point when I assumed this role, we also

471
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: had some company shifts and I had the chance to

472
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: restructure the company and to also create some new management

473
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: positions and change around the team. And of course, ultimately,

474
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: if I think about it, I'm doing what other people

475
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: are doing, which is probably hiring people that look a

476
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: little bit like me. And that ended up in having

477
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: a management team now which consists of four men and

478
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 1: four women, including me, And I must say, now the

479
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: team is complete. We've started in this setup first of January,

480
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: and now I'm experiencing what it means to work in

481
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: such a team. Because of course I read all the

482
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: studies about diversity, and I went to talks about that,

483
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 1: and I always thought, I don't know what to think

484
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: about that. I see it happening, but at the same time,

485
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: you know, should I take a stand or not? And

486
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: then it happened in some sort of organic way. I

487
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: hired a few women, another person in my company made

488
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 1: a few hires for the management team, and now we're

489
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: in the setup and it's brilliant. It's completely different from

490
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: what I had before, and I think it's a brilliant mix.

491
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: But still we need to pay attention to this subject

492
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: because you know, making a team of just six or

493
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: seven or eight women doesn't work as well. I truly

494
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: believe in the combination we currently have, which is a

495
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: little bit by accident and a little bit by purpose

496
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: because I'm a woman. I'm a woman, I hire women,

497
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's more easy to happen to me. So yeah,

498
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: I'm happy in this setup. That's awesome. So managing three

499
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: hundred people is a lot of people, and so I

500
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: imagine part of that is that, you know, many people

501
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: want your time for one reason or another, some crisis

502
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: or like let's get in front of Sharon because that's

503
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's exciting. So how do you sort

504
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: of structure I mean, we definitely want to hear a

505
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: day in the life, but as you think about how

506
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: you structure your time so you can get focused work

507
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: time and deal with the needs of the three hundred

508
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 1: people who might want access to you at various points

509
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: and how do you how do you structure that? Well,

510
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: I have a few direct reports, of course, not just

511
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 1: heading those three hundred people myself, but luckily my intermediate

512
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: to manages there as well. I speak to all of

513
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: my direct reports on Monday. That's always my internal meeting day.

514
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: I try to structure my days in such a way

515
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: and I always have a few well, let's say, ninety

516
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: minutes in the morning after I come in to just

517
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: do some work before or I go into these talks

518
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: and you know, accumulate a lot of action points and

519
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,239
Speaker 1: stuff to do, and then the energy, the engine really

520
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: starts running with me. So I have a crazy meeting schedule,

521
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: but it's very well structured, and you know, one big

522
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: thing that I do and I think, Laura, it's also

523
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: part of your idea that you eat well previously also

524
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: mentioned in your books. Around your podcast, I now introduced,

525
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: like let's say two months ago, a weekly review on Friday.

526
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 1: And I used to do this on Sunday night, you know,

527
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: and then I made the switch to Friday afternoon, and

528
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: meaning that if I have a crazy, crazy week, I

529
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: still have this time on Friday. It's completely blocked and

530
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,719
Speaker 1: usually I really take like two hours and I completely

531
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: you know, look at my meeting notes, my action point,

532
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: my plans for the week that they come out. You know,

533
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: what happened to my week? What is scheduled for next week?

534
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: Is there any upcoming problem there or conflict or stuff

535
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: that I should read? And this makes all the difference

536
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: to have a little bit of time in the morning

537
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: for myself to just get ready for the d and

538
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 1: also to have this this wrap up on Friday to

539
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: free up also a lot of mental space in my

540
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: head honestly, to just have some closure at the end

541
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,719
Speaker 1: of the week and make sure that everything's dealth with

542
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: or we'll be dealth with next week. So yeah, big

543
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: on that. Now you are speaking our languages. Literally, planning

544
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: is our love language. Suber here too, all right, So Sharon,

545
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: why don't you go ahead and talk us through a

546
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 1: day in the life then, so maybe maybe a week

547
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: a day this week to give us an insight into

548
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: what your life looks like. Yeah, yes, well I have

549
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: a very you know, steady rhythm. So what I do

550
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: and I started this end of twenty fourteen. I started

551
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: getting up earlier because I'm a very much morning person. Hello, Sarah,

552
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: and I you know at the time my kids were younger,

553
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: my daughter was one year old, and I really noticed that,

554
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, there was little time for me anymore. You

555
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: just you know, you wake up, you start servicing everybody,

556
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: You go to work, you come home, you service people again,

557
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: and then by the time it's a thirty, just I'm done.

558
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: So I started getting up earlier just to reclaim some

559
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: time for me. So I stuck to this habit ever since,

560
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: tried at various times, but now I end up at

561
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: five thirty, not to prostrate too many other people in

562
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: my household about going to bed to early at night.

563
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: So it's five thirty for me. I get up and

564
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: I really take some time for me in terms of,

565
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, writing some stuff down, taking out my planner,

566
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: and looking at the day, like do I have all

567
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: my to dos? There is my schedule, you know, still

568
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: what I wanted to be. I'm missing anything or any

569
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: fleeting thoughts that I really need to grasp now before

570
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: you know, the day starts. So that's what I do

571
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: from let's say five thirty to six. Then from six

572
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: to six thirty, I usually literally sit down with my

573
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: well first and probably only copy of the day and

574
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: a good book, because what I've learned, I love reading

575
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: and if I don't do it at this crazy hour,

576
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: and my friends really laugh at me for this, but

577
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: still I read a lot of books, and this is

578
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: how I get it done. So six six thirty, sometimes

579
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: six forty. If I find it difficult to quit, I'm

580
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: reading and you can call me crazy, but this is

581
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: how I get fifty more book or more books done

582
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: a year. So then of course, hitting the shower, getting dressed,

583
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: getting people out of their beds around seven, and then

584
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: we have a family breakfast, making lunch box and stuff

585
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: like that, and we leave the house around a twenty

586
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: because school starts at eight forty five and I think

587
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: doors open somewhere around eight thirty five, so we're usually there, well,

588
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: I must say almost every day we're there on time.

589
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: And then it's nice because if we have this ten

590
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: minutes in the school, then I can go in with

591
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: the kids, bring them to their classrooms, check out, you know,

592
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: what they're working on, or talking to the teacher. And

593
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: then the bell actually rings at eight forty five, and

594
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: that means that I'm in the office at eight fifty

595
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: and if I stop for a coffee on the way,

596
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: which sometimes happens. Then it's well eight fifty five, so

597
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: I actually really start my office day at nine, and

598
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: I wrap it up around six a little bit before

599
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: or a little bit after, and really well, since my

600
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: home is also five minutes from here, it is a

601
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: really family time from six to eight, and honestly, after eight,

602
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: nothing much happens because that's just not me. So probably

603
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: I'm you know, wrapping up some stuff, cleaning up some stuff,

604
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: and then around eight thirty it's like either I read

605
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: if that's what we want to do, or we watch

606
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: a TV show, or we talk about some stuff, you know,

607
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: me and my husband. It's usually a pretty short night,

608
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: so somewhere around nine thirty maybe ten, but then it's

609
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: really wild then let's go after So this is you know,

610
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: a day in the life of Sharon. But I think,

611
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: you know, as you were say in yeah, but it's

612
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: even interesting if you look at it from a weekly perspective.

613
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes it's but that's like once every two weeks.

614
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: Of course, there's an evening engagement, which always you know,

615
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: messes up my schedule, but I'm fine. And if you

616
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: look at the weekly schedule from a caretaking perspective, I'm

617
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: very lucky to have my mom. She's in my house

618
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: for eight years already every Monday, so she used to

619
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: take care of the kids on Monday, and now that

620
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: they go to school, she still comes, but she comes

621
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,479
Speaker 1: a little bit later and she picks them up at three.

622
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: On Tuesdays and Thursdays, it used to be daycare days,

623
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: but now that the kids both go to school, I've

624
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: actually hired my nieces who study in this city, and

625
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: they are a little pool of babysitters, so they pick

626
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: up the kids after school on Tuesday and Thursday. Wednesday,

627
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,479
Speaker 1: as I said, is my husband's afternoon, which is a

628
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: long afternoon because it starts at twelve thirty already when

629
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: school's out, so it's like he has a very crazy afternoon.

630
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: And I take Fridays, which is pretty relaxe actually because

631
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: it only starts at three and I'm already winding down

632
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: towards the weekend. So I love having this Friday part

633
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: for me. So, yeah, this is what my life looks

634
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: like in a nutshell sounds awesome. Yeah, yep, Sarah, Did

635
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: you have any more questions or you no. I just

636
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: have to say that was one of my favorite day

637
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: in the lifes ever. Know, it's very charming, it's wonderful.

638
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: But you guys walk to places like you don't even

639
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: need to bike places. I know that. You know Netherlands,

640
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: it's always the biking everywhere. We bike a lot, We

641
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: bike a lot, okay, but but you're so close you

642
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: don't even need to do that though, right you can know,

643
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: but then we need to leave earlier. So what I

644
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: do biking is just big. And if you look at

645
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: me biking sometimes, especially when they have you know, gym,

646
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: classroom practice, et cetera, it's like and now they have

647
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: tennis as well on Tuesdays. It's like me in a bicycle,

648
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: one kid in front, one kid in the back, and

649
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: I have this crate on the front end and it

650
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: has my very expensive work back piled under, you know,

651
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: all sorts of tennis records and shoes and stuff like that.

652
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: It's really horrible to look at me in the morning.

653
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: Uh b take a picture of that set up and

654
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: send it to us. That sounds like a great Instagram

655
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: shot for this episode. Yeah, that's the thing. And you

656
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: just like bike in your work clothes, right, like you know,

657
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: this is what everyone does. Like it's not seen as

658
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, nobody's in their spandex or anything. This is

659
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: just like, you know, that's how you get to work.

660
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: So I did quit. I did quit the high heels

661
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: because I remember my first years with the Maxicozi baby,

662
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: you know, baby in a small chair. I used to

663
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: go on my heels to daycare and I was like,

664
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: I'm balancing with this baby on what am I doing?

665
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: And and then I fell once and I thought, why

666
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: didn't I switch like you guys do in the US.

667
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: And I always see in London as well, switch to

668
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: sneakers for God's sake. So that's what I'm doing right now.

669
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,479
Speaker 1: And my shoe collection is at the office here, so

670
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: I'm learning. And yes I do have some very tight

671
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: fitting skirts. Yeah, it's horrible to see me at the

672
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: traffic light because it's not really decent. But okay, but

673
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: you know everyone does it, so it's a it's not

674
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, the the American Americans always ask things like that,

675
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: how on earth could you bit in your work clothes.

676
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: It's like, well, you know, apparently do it. A million

677
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: people do it, so you can you can, well, well,

678
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: this is that we do our Love of the week

679
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: at the end of the second Sarah and I can

680
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: go first if you want to, just you know, quick

681
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: think about it while we're going. So, Sarah, you're your love.

682
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: We've probably featured way too many chocolate related products, but

683
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: I found a really new favorite. Family O A R

684
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: A KAA is the brand. They have a sea salt

685
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: bar that is like actually like salty, like full on

686
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: and you know in your land. I don't know about Netherlands.

687
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: I used to love the salty liquorice. I think you

688
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: can only get it like in Scandinavia. And anyway, I

689
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: love salt, and this bar is actually like salty enough

690
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: for me. I should actually just buy regular Doc chocolate

691
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: like sprinkled krinkle salt on it, like that would probably work.

692
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: But anyway, this one's really good. That's cool. Well, my

693
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: love of the week is Wander Beauty Dualist Concealer, which

694
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: is another in my Instagram obsession. It was advertised on

695
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: Instagram and it looked good on the models, so I

696
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: was like, well, let me click on that and buy it.

697
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: But I actually liked it. It works better than a

698
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: lot of other ones I've tried. It actually seems to

699
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: look more like it evens out your skin tone and

700
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So I bought one and I liked it,

701
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: so then I went and bought another one, so when

702
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: the first one's out, I'll have the second one. So

703
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: Wander Beauty Duelist Concealer. If you're ordered this today, I know, well,

704
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 1: if you're on Instagram and you have a similar profile

705
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 1: to me, you're probably getting ads for it anyway. So

706
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: all right, Sharon, what do you have for us? My

707
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: love of the week is actually tennis, and I'll tell

708
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: you why because I'm moving house in a few months

709
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: and I was cleaning up some closets and I found

710
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: this list that I wrote down on my honeymoon sitting

711
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: on some Australian island, and in two thousand and eight,

712
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: by the way, this was and I wrote down after

713
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: my honeymoon, I want to start and learn how to

714
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: play tennis. That's two thousand and eight. Then I found

715
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: another list during my maternity really twenty eleven, after my

716
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: maternity leave, I wanted to start playing and learn how

717
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: to play tennis. So last year, me and one of

718
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: my best friends, we you know, we subscribed, but there

719
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 1: was no convenient time for us, so we thought, well

720
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: forget it. And now this year you know, my kids

721
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: are getting very good at playing tennis, and I thought,

722
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: you know, it's now or never. So again, me and

723
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: my friend we subscribed and we were like, can you

724
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: please put us in a convenient class, And then they

725
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: had only a time slot Tuesday night seven to eight,

726
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 1: which if you just listen to my schedule, really sucks.

727
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 1: Means running home, eating very quickly, saying goodbye to family

728
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: time in order to go and play tennis. But we said,

729
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 1: you know, let's do it because it's now or never,

730
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: and we're really enjoying ourselves because well, hitting this ball

731
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: and thinking about what you're doing with your body basically,

732
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 1: you know, removes any thoughts from work or otherwise. So

733
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: my love of the week I just had my second

734
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: class definitely tennis. Totally cool. You're finally doing it's been

735
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: on the list for eleven years and it's getting off

736
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: the list now or actually actually doing it. That's wonderful. Well, Sharon,

737
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today. We really

738
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: appreciate it. You're welcome. I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

739
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: So today's question comes from a listener who has been

740
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: watching the show. This is us, So if we're recording

741
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: this long before this is airing, So hopefully you are

742
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: caught up now our podcast listeners. But if you are

743
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: a big This is US fan and are not caught up,

744
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: maybe you want to just turn the podcast off right now.

745
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: Sarah was upset that there was a spoiler alert in

746
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: this questions to one of the emails, So yes, if

747
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 1: you're sending a question, perhaps don't put show spoiler spoilers

748
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: in there anyway, Stacy s I've been watching This is

749
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: Us and I'm not sure if either of your fans. Yes,

750
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: Sarah is by the way, but what storyline in particular

751
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with time management and the

752
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: roles in families, and it made me think of a

753
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 1: question for you. Guys. Randall and Beth are both trying

754
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: to make two careers taking care of their three daughters work.

755
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: Randall has been elected a city councilman in a Philadelphia,

756
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 1: which is a two hour commute from where they live.

757
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: I don't understand that because I thought councilmen had to

758
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: live in their district. So maybe I'm just missing something

759
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: in the building in the district, building in the district.

760
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: I was like, normally we don't allow that. I know,

761
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: Philly is like corrupt in all sorts of ways, but

762
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: like was that part of the plot? Okay? Anyway? And

763
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: Beth has found a passion for dance and is starting

764
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: a new career as a dance teacher. They're busy nights

765
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,439
Speaker 1: and weekends. They argue about childcare because Beth's salary isn't

766
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: necessary going to cover what they need to pay. Our

767
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: listener says, I want to yell at the screen that

768
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: they need to take into account both of their wages, right, Laura,

769
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: But as of this week's episode, the bigger issue is

770
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: that Beth feels like she always bends to accommodate Randall's

771
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: goals and this time she doesn't want to be the

772
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: flexible one. So that brings me to my question. Both

773
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: of you have big careers, as do your husbands. Do

774
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: you think you primarily have to sacrifice more of what

775
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 1: you want to do so they can do their jobs.

776
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: I know Sarah is on primary parent duty during the

777
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: week and opted to do an eighty percent or now

778
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: ninety percent schedule to have more flexibility. Laura, you mentioned

779
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: something about your book being named in the top fifteen

780
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: all time time management books, but then also waiting for

781
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: your kid's bus and wondering if any other authors on

782
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: the list had ever had to do that. If you

783
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 1: do think that you seem to bend more to accommodate family,

784
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: then your husband's do. Do you think it's okay? I

785
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 1: know you've discussed the podcast that each spy spouse might

786
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: not be doing an equal amount of childcare, but maybe

787
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: one spouse is doing all the home improvement projects or

788
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: another aspects. Are we each playing to our strengths or

789
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: could women in general work even more equity between spouses?

790
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 1: All right, well that was a that was a great

791
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: question because I was reading it, reading it, try to

792
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: read it through, and I was stumbling over some of

793
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: the words. But yeah, all right, sorry, Yeah, that is

794
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: the only show that I watched regularly other than well,

795
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: I'm not caught up in Crazy ex Girl Farm, but

796
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: that would be like my number two. That's pretty much

797
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: it for TV. So you hit the nail on the

798
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: head there. So the plotline is fascinating to me. And interestingly,

799
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 1: and this is not answering your question, but for it's

800
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: a very popular so so others may have thoughts on

801
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: this as well. Interestingly, I found myself very frustrated at

802
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: Beth the mom, not because of the genders. I actually

803
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: flipped the genders in my head because if Beth had

804
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: been the one that had taken a political position and

805
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 1: then her husband decided that, well, you know, I'm kind

806
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: of between jobs, but I've got to be a football

807
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: coach right now. I have to start my football coaching career.

808
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: I cannot wait one second. And I don't care that

809
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: you've taken this big deal in office. I would be

810
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: so pissed at him. So the gender flip in this

811
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: case helped me realize that, you know, maybe I actually

812
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 1: felt for him more than I felt for her. Not

813
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: about the childcare issue. I totally agree with you that

814
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: I felt like the episode, they're sort of demon ignizing

815
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: childcare more than they need to, and they're also treating

816
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 1: it as very black and white, like, oh, well, you're

817
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: gone in nights and weekends, so you're not there for

818
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: the family at all. Well, maybe that means she's there

819
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: every morning. Maybe that means that she's only gone part

820
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 1: of the weekends. I think that strategic use of childcare

821
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: could probably fill in the gaps. I mean, their kids

822
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: are much older more than they think, so I guess

823
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: the idea that that was sort of not a viable

824
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: option rubbed me the wrong way. But then, ironically or

825
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: not ironically, but I guess, counter to what a lot

826
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: of people experience who listened to the show, I was

827
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: more frustrated with her than I was with him. My

828
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 1: answer in my own family, you know, I think we've

829
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: actually made a really amazing journey. I don't know husband

830
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: listens to this podcast. I don't know if that Josh like,

831
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: there are some things that I do more of, but

832
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: it's very much thought through in our household. I don't

833
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: feel like I typically do more than I want to

834
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: be doing, if that makes sense. I don't know that

835
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: I've reached some sort of nirvana, But upon reflection, I

836
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: feel like we've gotten to a really good place. And

837
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: I do feel like it took time, and it took

838
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: my husband questioning a lot of things. But yeah, I

839
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: think that it's not something to necessarily silently put up with.

840
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: I think that you need to find out what works

841
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: for you. You You need to keep the lines of communication open.

842
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: You may accept that the answer is not equality, because

843
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: in our family, we're actually maybe moving more towards that.

844
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: As my husband's made a lot of effort to be homewore,

845
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: but sometimes it's not. Some weeks it's all me, but

846
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, But then I've spoken with my husband

847
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: and said, Friday morning, I'm going to this boutique workout

848
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: class and you're going to cover me, and he'll do that,

849
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: And so I don't necessarily care that I was more

850
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: in charge more time if I get my priorities and

851
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: needs met. So yeah, I guess that's my answer. But

852
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: then again, I don't know. Unlike Laura, I don't have

853
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,479
Speaker 1: a top ten book, and I know that my job

854
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: is more flexible than my husband's and that's just kind

855
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: of the way it is. So yeah, that was just

856
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: a funny moment. So Entrepreneur magat, I mean, they had

857
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: this piece there's like the top fifteen time management productivity

858
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: books of all time. And the funny thing about the

859
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: list is that there are fourteen books by men and

860
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: one book by a woman, which that is amazing. But

861
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,439
Speaker 1: I'm like, just proud of you. That's amazing, Like nobody looks,

862
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: but that's what kills me. Nobody looked at list. Listen said, what,

863
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 1: maybe there are other women who have written amazing books

864
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 1: that we should also look at you know, it's just

865
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: I think sometimes men read books by men and assume

866
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: they're for everybody, whereas a book written by a woman

867
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: is not for everyone because it talks about woman things

868
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: that are somehow not applicable. I don't know, and like,

869
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: well and again, some men have made them not applicable

870
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: by deciding that it's not their job to worry about

871
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: these things. But I think, you know, as one of

872
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: our more controversial guests, Jamah Hartley pointed out, like that's

873
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: not necessarily good for anyone. Yeah, But then the particular

874
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: thing that got me that my husband was texting this around,

875
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: this list around to family members. And at the time,

876
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: our children had a half day from school that day,

877
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: so I was home to get the kids off the

878
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: bus because our nanny was off with the four year

879
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 1: old somewhere else right, like, you know, so we'd arrange

880
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 1: this this way i'd be home. But then the phone

881
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: rang and I get it and it's the school basically

882
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: saying there's a problem, your streets closed. I hadn't gone

883
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: outside and seen that, so your kids can't get off

884
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: the bus. So I had to go wait for the

885
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,919
Speaker 1: bus at an intersection somewhere else so that I could

886
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 1: get them off and safely get them to my house.

887
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: And I was kind of thinking, well, what would happen

888
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: if I hadn't picked up the phone. I mean, I

889
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 1: don't know what would happen if I hadn't picked up

890
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: the phone, but you know, so I'm standing there at

891
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: the intersection waiting for this bus at one o'clock in

892
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: the afternoon on a work day, seeing on my phone.

893
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, top fifteen productivity books of all

894
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: time with fourteen men who I'm guessing, I'm just guessing

895
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: are not out at one pm waiting for the school

896
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: bus on a workday. You know, that just means that

897
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 1: your time management is that much better that you're able

898
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: to not only have that book but also wait for

899
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: the bus, also wait for the bus. Yes, awesome stuff.

900
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. I you know, I have not necessarily

901
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: you know, I try to be careful of what I

902
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: say on this podcast. I have not necessarily made my

903
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: piece entirely with the way things are in a household.

904
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: And again, like Sarah, I think they've gotten better. And

905
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: I think what happened at the beginning is there were

906
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 1: certain assumptions and there were assumptions on both of our parts.

907
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: Partly it's that my husband is a reasonable amount older

908
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: than I am. So when he became a parent for

909
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: the first time, he was almost thirty nine years old,

910
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: he had been working for what seventeen years as not

911
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: having children. You know, I was not, you know, I

912
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: got pregnant for the first time at age twenty seven,

913
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: Like I didn't have year of non kid, a big

914
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: pre kid, professional kid, professional somewhat but not as much.

915
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: Somewhat but not not nearly as much. And and so

916
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, he had sort of ways he was used

917
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: to doing things, and none of this had ever been

918
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: built with kids in mind. Also, you know, I did

919
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: not grow up with things like Nanny's that it didn't

920
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: even occur to me that that's what we should do,

921
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 1: even though now it seems blindingly obvious. And the amount

922
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: of support I have now and he has now because

923
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: it's for both of us, it's just infinitely better than

924
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: it was at the beginning there. And that is something

925
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: that I have had to grow into realizing that we

926
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: needed to do. And one of the reasons I talk

927
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 1: about it all the time on this podcast is because

928
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: I want other people to know that this is something

929
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,240
Speaker 1: you may need to do. And if you have grown

930
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 1: up in a very sort of solidly you know, middle

931
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: middle class existence, and at times my parents were not

932
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: even that. So you know, it's like you you don't

933
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: know this and you may need to learn that. So,

934
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 1: you know, we I enrolled my old my oldest son

935
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 1: and Daycaren. That turned out not to be a great

936
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: thing for you know, when you have one parent who's

937
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 1: got a job that's a certain way and requires a

938
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: lot of travel, and you know, yours seems more flexible,

939
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: even though ultimately you have to still put in the work.

940
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: So we've you know, we've thought a lot about this,

941
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:24,959
Speaker 1: and over time it's definitely gotten better as we've gotten

942
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: more support. And also that I you know, have been

943
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: better about saying, you know, what is acceptable and what

944
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 1: is not and what I you know, require in order

945
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: to feel like like things are better. Because I agree.

946
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you don't want to always be

947
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:44,399
Speaker 1: the person bending because that makes for relationship that might

948
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: involve resentment. Yeah, and I think you know, there's it's

949
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: easy to fall into these roles, and partly it is

950
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: because you know, many women do wind up marrying guys

951
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: who are, for instance, slightly older than them, which then

952
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: means that they may have more experience, so they may

953
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: be earning more because of that. Sometimes it's him earning

954
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: a little more than you. Is kind of a dangerous

955
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: place because then it's it looks like you are the

956
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: one who should automatically give. Or if you have chosen

957
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: a job and of course that's going to compound it,

958
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: it's going to compound itself. Or if you've chosen a

959
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: job that's slightly more flexible, because in the back of

960
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: your mind you're thinking, well, I should have flexibility because

961
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: this is important for other things I want to do

962
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: in life. And he hasn't because he hasn't grown up

963
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: thinking he should. Well, then you know, again you're going

964
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 1: to wind up being the one bending. Or you know,

965
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: there's just the cultural narratives too. I mean, women don't

966
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: grow up with the story that earning money is how

967
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: I contribute to my family. I think a lot of

968
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: women grow up with the story that being a you know,

969
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: in their caretaker time with the children, physically with the children,

970
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: the children, cleaning the house while the children are at school, Well,

971
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: y's how you contribute cookies so that you have homemade

972
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: cookies to present them when they get home from school.

973
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: I mean back in the day, it wasn't even FaceTime

974
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: with your kids. And you've looked at time data now

975
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: people say then their kids on the bike all day

976
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: and you come home for yeah, important tasks that somehow

977
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: either nobody does anymore or their outsourcing and waxing the

978
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: kitchen floor exactly that lovely tip I found in one

979
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: of the nineteen sixties Good Housekeepings of describing exactly how

980
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: you could use a butter knife to properly spread the

981
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: waxing wax on the waxer so you could wax your floor. Exactly.

982
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: Why that's you know, and it was it was produced.

983
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: It was given sort of as a time management tip, right,

984
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: which is funny just if you think about it. So, yeah,

985
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 1: but men grow up with the story that that's how

986
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: they contribute and women don't. You know, women think time,

987
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: men think money, And so in his mind, like going

988
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: to work is how he's contributing to his family. And

989
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 1: we see that all the time and the questions we

990
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 1: get from listeners. So I think, you know, we just

991
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: can always evolve and grow and you know, ask for

992
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: what we need and make sure that we're getting what

993
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: we need. And sometimes it will be your partner doing

994
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: it and sometimes it won't. And understand that, you know,

995
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: probably it will be a journey. And remember things can

996
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: change from year to year. You know, it's going to

997
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: depend on your job situation, your job options, the ages

998
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: of your kids, you know, financial situations. So don't just

999
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: take one situation and assume that that's the way it

1000
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: has to be forever. Continue to revisit, continue to refine exactly.

1001
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds.

1002
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: Great listener question about this is us So sorry to

1003
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: anyone who is looking to watch that episode later and

1004
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: didn't get to turn off this podcast in time. We

1005
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: don't give away too much. We've also been talking with

1006
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 1: Sharon von Harrell about climbing up the ladder at the

1007
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: insurance industry and how things are done in the Netherlands,

1008
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: so that's been great too. So we'll be back next

1009
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 1: week with more on making work and life fit together.

1010
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the

1011
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 1: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,

1012
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.

1013
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,800
Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please

1014
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: join us next time for more on making work and

1015
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: life work together.