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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George norri

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Speaker 1: with you, Tom Riley with us. He was a devout Catholic,

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Speaker 1: now he's in atheist. Tom Riley has written a number

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Speaker 1: of books about Oliver Cromwell. Having failed second level history,

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Speaker 1: he has taken on the might of academia regarding the

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Speaker 1: allegations of war crimes which the verdict of history has

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Speaker 1: concluded that Cromwell was responsible for. Tom lives in Ireland,

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Speaker 1: where he is alleged to have slaughtered the entire population

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Speaker 1: in sixteen forty nine. Mister Cromwell did an irishman who

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Speaker 1: defends Cromwell go figure. Welcome to the show. Tom, good

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Speaker 1: to have you with us. Thank you, George, and that's

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Speaker 1: a very good introduction. I'm very impressed. Thank you. How

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Speaker 1: are things in Ireland these days? Well, that's a good thing. Yes,

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Speaker 1: which we can move some of that to California. It's

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Speaker 1: been a drought out here for years. Yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: we always say that we have no dream where they're here.

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Speaker 1: So we've got you can get four seasons in the

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Speaker 1: one day, and today it's started off wet, so we're

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Speaker 1: you know, we can look forward to another three But yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it's not too bad. It's about maybe fifteen degrees celsius

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Speaker 1: so and it's a eight am in the morning, so

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Speaker 1: it's it's I'm looking forward to a nice summer's day. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have a great time here with you. Tell

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Speaker 1: me about what the In Ireland, They've got a lot

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Speaker 1: of castles that are haunted, don't they. Oh yes, George,

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Speaker 1: As it happens, I'm sitting right now in the castle

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Speaker 1: that's haunted, just so you know. And that's what I

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Speaker 1: inhabit a castle ninety percent of my week. So I

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Speaker 1: walk around these rooms and I think about the people

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Speaker 1: who used to live here, and we have had paranormal

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Speaker 1: investigations here and the big, the you know, the most

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Speaker 1: significant story concerns what we call the White Lady. She

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Speaker 1: and lots of people around the castle have bumped into her.

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Speaker 1: She drowned in eighteen fifty two. I'm currently sitting looking

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Speaker 1: over the Irish Sea, looking towards the UK. And in

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Speaker 1: eighteen fifty two this lady came for a visit here

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Speaker 1: and she went down to the sea with her maid.

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Speaker 1: We know this, by the way, because we had the

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Speaker 1: coroner's report, which is very clear and very It was

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Speaker 1: only printed and some days after the events, so we

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Speaker 1: have very clear stories that were told by the people

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Speaker 1: who witnessed this. Anyway, she was a very strong swimmer,

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Speaker 1: and she asked her maid just as she got into

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Speaker 1: the sea, and it was very rough. She said, did

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Speaker 1: she think that c was any rougher than the previous day?

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Speaker 1: And her maid said it's about the same, And with

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Speaker 1: that she uttered her last words, which where there is

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Speaker 1: no fear, And within seconds she was dragged away by

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Speaker 1: a wave. She drowned very quickly, and they took her

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Speaker 1: body and they brought it back and I'm now looking

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Speaker 1: at the path that they would have taken from the

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Speaker 1: woods to this castle. And they put her in a

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Speaker 1: bath and tried to revive her with hot water, but

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Speaker 1: she was gone. And the steps that they took her

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Speaker 1: up from the beach are now called the Ladies Stairs.

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Speaker 1: If anybody wants to google this, it's an absolutely it's

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Speaker 1: it's a true story and inverted commas. And they the

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Speaker 1: locals around here, including myself, you know, you just don't

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Speaker 1: go there after dark. She's been encountered by various people

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Speaker 1: around the castle here and she's one. She's she unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: her husband died the following year, so her children were offened.

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Speaker 1: So instead that she's still going around looking for her children.

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Speaker 1: She was only thirty two. Does she spare people time?

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Speaker 1: Is she trying to hurt people? Or is she just

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Speaker 1: looking for her kids? That's exactly the idea. She's looking

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Speaker 1: for her children. And there you know, as you know,

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Speaker 1: and there is there are dimensions to this conversation where

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Speaker 1: they're evil. You know, we've got pokas that presuming you're

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Speaker 1: familiar with the word puka puca, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And they're sort of you know, scallywag, kind of rogue

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Speaker 1: spirits who who you know, play tricks. But this lady

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Speaker 1: is not one of those. She's she's very much looking

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Speaker 1: for her children. And it's it's a very sad story. Um,

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Speaker 1: but we you know, the band she is a big

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Speaker 1: thing over here too. Again, I'm sure that's an expression

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Speaker 1: you're familiar with. Um, the band she is somebody who wails,

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Speaker 1: who cries. We're into you know, very expressive you know

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Speaker 1: activity over here. So she cries when when somebody's going

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Speaker 1: to die and you know, I know, for instance, when

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Speaker 1: I was younger, we didn't necessarily have any concern from

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Speaker 1: monsters under the bed. But what we had very you know,

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Speaker 1: significant concerned about was the band she who would come

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Speaker 1: up and down the street, apparently looking in windows, you know,

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Speaker 1: to see who was going to die, and then she'd

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Speaker 1: wail and I remember the words. I can tell you

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Speaker 1: when when I was a teenager. You know, even even

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Speaker 1: at that level, I was scared witless. I bet who

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be My gosh, is every castle out there tom haunted? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Well there there are different levels, to be honest. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you see, I inhabited a country. I mean with with

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Speaker 1: respect to the States and the history. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you go back two hundred years there, it's a long

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Speaker 1: time ago. Well here, you know, we we the walls

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Speaker 1: kind of speak of thousands of years, you know. Um.

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Speaker 1: So to me, the longer back, further back you go,

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Speaker 1: the more substantial the history, So the more substantial the stories.

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Speaker 1: So you know, again, I'm I'm sitting in a building

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Speaker 1: that's got walls that are six foot six feet thick,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the I suppose the most haunted castle

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Speaker 1: in Ireland probably is the health Fire Club, which is

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Speaker 1: a great name. Yeah, that's up in the Dublin Mountains.

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Speaker 1: It's not that far away from me. I'm indam in

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Speaker 1: County Dublin now. But the health Fire Club was you know,

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Speaker 1: that's like there's stories of cannibalism that came from there,

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Speaker 1: you know. It's it's was built in seventeen thirty five,

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Speaker 1: apparently on a passage toomb and it was used by

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Speaker 1: a cult that was made up of lords and noblemen,

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Speaker 1: and they used to practice immoral acts, you know, and

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Speaker 1: hold back black masses, you know, to to summon Satan

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Speaker 1: and so this was they were the Easter worship him.

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Speaker 1: And so that's I remember going there years ago. I

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Speaker 1: was in my probably mid twenties, and it starts feeling.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was broad daylight, there were stone walls,

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Speaker 1: and you know, there's nothing really sinister, but you just

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Speaker 1: get that feeling of and we actually, my friend and

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Speaker 1: I actually ran away from the place. We were that scared.

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Speaker 1: I don't blame it hot prevalent of the castles out there, Tom,

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Speaker 1: I mean now they all over the place, ors just

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Speaker 1: like one big one per city or town. They they

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Speaker 1: genuinely are all over the place. They're in cities, they're

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Speaker 1: in towns, they're in very rural areas as well. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's if you're hard back to

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Speaker 1: when they were built. They were built, probably most of

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Speaker 1: them were medieval, which would suggest that they're around a

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Speaker 1: thousand years old. There was a a scenario where it

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Speaker 1: was called a ten pound castle, which is the equivalent

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Speaker 1: of a dollar, like ten dollar castle, and back in

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Speaker 1: those days, that was a huge amount of money. So

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Speaker 1: you could build a castle for ten pounds, and you know,

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Speaker 1: inhabit it, it was. It was not not only for

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Speaker 1: living in, but it was for defensive purposes as well.

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Speaker 1: And some of them, you know, mostly as you know,

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Speaker 1: had had the doors very high open so on. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: the thing is not many of them were knocked down,

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Speaker 1: so most of them are kind of still around, and

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Speaker 1: it's good that people had the foresight to kill them. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you know, but we invented Halloween

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Speaker 1: over here. I don't know, are you familiar with that.

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Speaker 1: I had heard that years ago, And of course it

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Speaker 1: was more of a religious ceremony, wasn't it at the time. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: that's correct. Yeah, it was a Pagan Festival. I suppose

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Speaker 1: that that celebrated the start of winter, you know, and

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Speaker 1: it's it's um, it's gathered so traction um. And of

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Speaker 1: course we have we have the Adventure of Dracula as well.

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Speaker 1: Bram Stoker. Oh yeah, yeah, so he's he's Irish. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the castles around here, you know. These days,

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Speaker 1: of course, in twenty twenty two they have these sand

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Speaker 1: bites on their websites to say, oh, the most haunted

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Speaker 1: castle in Ireland, you know, um, or even some of

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Speaker 1: them to claim to have the most haunted castles in

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Speaker 1: the world. But yeah, there are lots of stories like

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Speaker 1: we have. There's one just not too far away from

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Speaker 1: where I am called Mala Hide Castle, and that's got

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Speaker 1: a very direct relationship with with the guy who's who

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Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, the guy who's a fictional biography have

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Speaker 1: just written. But anyway, he m and that the protector, right,

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Speaker 1: that's correct, Yeah, yeah, but but the story but this

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Speaker 1: guy is and he was one of Comwell's soldiers and

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Speaker 1: he did terrible things. This is the whole idea about

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Speaker 1: the history of Ireland. You know. We we we have

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Speaker 1: a persecution complex over here. George because we're so close

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Speaker 1: to the the UK. You know, I read somewhere recently

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Speaker 1: that there was something like one hundred and ninety two

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Speaker 1: countries in the United Nations and England has invaded one

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy of them. Yeah, that's right, and occupied

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Speaker 1: most of them absolutely. And we're the reason we're speaking

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Speaker 1: English is primarily due to that for that reason. But

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Speaker 1: we're next door, so we would have had quite a

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Speaker 1: fractious relationship with with the English. Anyway. This this guy

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Speaker 1: came over with Cromwell with in the sixteen forties and

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Speaker 1: he did some terrible things to the Catholic churches. So

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Speaker 1: and this is where you know retribution. Retribution is an

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Speaker 1: excellent um. You know, in these stories. I loved the

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Speaker 1: restribution stories because he when when they found when they

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Speaker 1: when they located him, he went on the run at

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Speaker 1: one stage when when the Catholics went looking from and

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Speaker 1: they located him, and then they hung, drew and quartered him.

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Speaker 1: And now visitors to the castle they say, you know,

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Speaker 1: I have not seen this, but they say, when they

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Speaker 1: see this ghost, he suddenly before their eyes he just

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Speaker 1: drops into four pieces because he was hung, drawn and quartered.

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Speaker 1: You know, in in Ireland. Are there many ghost hunters

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Speaker 1: out there where they go looking for ghosts? Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a big it's a big deal, I have to say,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's probably as big a deal here as

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Speaker 1: it is there. You know, it's a peculiar. Like recently

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Speaker 1: again because I'm involved in a castle here, we've even

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Speaker 1: had a very extensive, parer normal investigation taking place, and

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Speaker 1: I get calls all the time from people who are

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Speaker 1: not just making TV programs but genuinely um you know,

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Speaker 1: paranormal investigators who they wanted, Like every castle, I would

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Speaker 1: say every castle in this country has been investigated, you know,

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Speaker 1: cirtainly once and more often than not. I mean the look,

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Speaker 1: there's stories all over the internet about about these these hauntings.

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Speaker 1: But but it is again when you when you when

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Speaker 1: you inhabit this world that that that we live in here,

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Speaker 1: we've just got so much history. So the guys who

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Speaker 1: come with like that. Recently, I think was about last

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Speaker 1: year when the lock when Lockdown was finally over. UM

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Speaker 1: Ghost Circle, which is it's a program, the TV program,

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Speaker 1: you know, they they go around Ireland all the time,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's amazing to me how I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of balanced on this, if you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: and my mind is open. I'm not closed. I'm very

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Speaker 1: open to to suggestion. But it's amazing to me how

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Speaker 1: I'm standing there in this size filming me, and when

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Speaker 1: he played the thing back for me, there were noises

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Speaker 1: in the background, and noises that could be determined as

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Speaker 1: as words, and you know, it is a little disconcerting

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Speaker 1: that it's you know, if if if they if they

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Speaker 1: communicate with us, and why they don't make things a

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Speaker 1: little more clear? Um. So you know you're trying to say, okay,

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Speaker 1: what was that? What was that word? You know, because

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Speaker 1: there's a room adjacent to mine where a child who

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Speaker 1: died at something like four um is said to inhabit

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Speaker 1: that room at night, and then the voice came over

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Speaker 1: the you know, the the technology and you can hear

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Speaker 1: the voice very clearly that it was a child. And

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Speaker 1: again that's you know, that's difficult to sleep with that night,

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Speaker 1: you know, And that's haunting. Kid's voice in a ghostly

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Speaker 1: position is haunting, isn't it? Absolutely? And there's no question

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Speaker 1: about that. I mean, And again you have people who

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Speaker 1: are sears, well, this is how I see it. You know,

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Speaker 1: you have people again. I'm standing there and this guy

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Speaker 1: is talking to me. He's got a microphone. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's very contemporary times. It's it's you know, he's he's um,

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Speaker 1: there's a camera. It's all very you know, technologically advanced.

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Speaker 1: And she just says, don't move. There's a lady standing

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Speaker 1: behind you. And I'm thinking, oh my god, how you

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Speaker 1: know I'm not going to add Suddenly the hairs stand

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Speaker 1: up and you know, on my arms, and she starts

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Speaker 1: to ask me some questions, and sure enough, they're in

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Speaker 1: that room that was that was the lady's room. And

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Speaker 1: she would never have known that because it doesn't look

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Speaker 1: anything like a lady's room now, but it used to be.

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Speaker 1: And she was the lady of the house. Her name

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Speaker 1: is Mary Anne Taylor, and you know, she died in

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Speaker 1: the room. So these are things that I didn't see.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't see anyone. That's by the time I turned around,

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Speaker 1: whatever was there had gone. And so that's why I'm

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Speaker 1: on the fence. You know, I like I like my

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Speaker 1: ghosts to have an evidential platform. I don't blame you.

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Speaker 1: Is your belief in the ghostly realm in conflict with

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Speaker 1: your atheism and I think, as I say, I will

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Speaker 1: always give you a balanced answer, because as far as

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Speaker 1: I'm concerned, there is no body throughout history and no

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Speaker 1: you know individual that I've ever come across who can

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Speaker 1: prove it one way or the other. So, like I say,

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Speaker 1: my mind is open, I do tend to error on

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Speaker 1: the side of logic, but I just know that there

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Speaker 1: were so many things out there that you can't explain.

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Speaker 1: And that's where it gets very great for me. Like

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Speaker 1: we're all living in this world, and most of us

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Speaker 1: are have you know, a certain level of intellect. So

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Speaker 1: I can only take my thoughts and my beliefs. So

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Speaker 1: far I can't tell you, you know, if science can't

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Speaker 1: can't tell me why that happened? You know, do I

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Speaker 1: say to you what I'd like for science to be

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Speaker 1: able to tell me? Maybe in twenty years it might

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Speaker 1: have advanced that far. But right now I can't give

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Speaker 1: you a scientific or a logical explanation for what just happened.

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Speaker 1: For you know, for the navy standing behind me, how

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Speaker 1: did you know this is this? You know individual who

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Speaker 1: saw the lady? Is she simply lying or is she

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Speaker 1: just trying to generate a story. But my answer to

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Speaker 1: that is that there are too far, too many people

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Speaker 1: who have genuine and sincere experiences exactly. And that's where

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Speaker 1: I on. I I don't believe that you can categorically

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Speaker 1: say one way or the other, what's what's you know,

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Speaker 1: what's going on out there? But I do, I do, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you know, want to believe that that there is another dimension.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise where do we all go? You know that's right?

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Speaker 1: And and do we go? I think we do. Tom

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Speaker 1: if they pulled people in Ireland, would you say that

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Speaker 1: most of them would believe in the ghostly field? But

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Speaker 1: there's no question. I mean, I don't know what the percentages.

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Speaker 1: I've never looked it up, but there's absolutely no question

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Speaker 1: about that. And it is, as you challenge me there

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Speaker 1: a couple of moments ago. It is the kind of

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Speaker 1: a contradictionary. It's a dichotomy, that contradiction because the you know,

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Speaker 1: on one hand, um, you know, the belief in in

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Speaker 1: in Catholicism or in God is on the increase, but

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Speaker 1: yet um, you know, belief in ghosts in the spirit world.

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Speaker 1: I would I would wager out of it. I would

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Speaker 1: argue that that that hasn't that's that's unshiftable because now

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Speaker 1: again George, maybe you know, there there is an element

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Speaker 1: of this where people have an in eight desire to

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Speaker 1: want to believe, you know, And I do sometimes think

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Speaker 1: that maybe Hollywood has had an influence on you know,

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Speaker 1: you have a certain conditioning if if you it's an

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Speaker 1: emotional response, I think to the way you're conditioned that

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Speaker 1: you need to think and that there is you know,

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Speaker 1: for instance, that there's a father figure if we're talking

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Speaker 1: about religion, or that there's something out there after death,

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Speaker 1: if you're talking about you know, the spirit world. And

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Speaker 1: so I think that that we all, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: subjected to Hollywood movies, were subjected to and stories that

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Speaker 1: come down through the years. In terms of legacy and

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Speaker 1: the history in Ireland, it is very vivid. Listen to

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Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one am

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Speaker 1: Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot com

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Speaker 1: for more