WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: Rick Astley 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:09.399 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Ladies and gentlemen, 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.800 Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. Quest Love 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:18.200 your host Sexually. Have we ever a tag team? Ticolo? 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:19.480 I don't think we have. 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:22.160 Thanks, this is. 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:27.360 The it's the tag teamages of fun Tikeolo in Quest Love. 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:30.120 How you doing, man? How's your week? Then? 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:31.680 It's hectic? 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:36.599 But I did. Are you about to talk about it? 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:37.959 Oh? 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:39.960 Yeah, yeah yeah, I mean yeah. 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.760 We had our first like little brother show in like 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.199 two years over the like last weekend. 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:45.839 How was that? 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:49.159 It was insane, very surreal. 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.320 Afterwards, I had these two kids come up to the 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.280 meet and we're like, this is the greatest show we've 0:00:55.480 --> 0:01:00.240 ever seen. Two white girls seventeen and her sister who 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:04.200 was twelve. Wow, that was the first. The toy year 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:05.840 old she said it was the first show she'd ever 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:07.959 been to ever. And I was sitting there talking with 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.000 my home girl er Lette, and were just sitting there 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:10.680 and I was like hi. 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.000 They was like, oh my god, you guys were getting 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:13.440 so high. 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:14.240 It was so great. 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:15.880 And I love the pink. I love you in the 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.440 pink shirt. We love the pink. I was like, Okay, 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:20.479 thanks for the fashion to you know what I mean? 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.120 But how did they know they even see you? Well, 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.280 both of them were younger than your career, straight. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:28.560 Up I got albums older than both of them. 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.640 So they were We were opening for a band called 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.920 silvan Eso and they pick up to them that's fine. 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:36.160 So yes. 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:38.800 So they did like a three night kind of festival 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:43.280 thing in Durham and we were like the support act 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.759 for night too, and yeah, man, we came out there 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:48.120 and you know, it was our first show. 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.160 Me and Pool put the set together like the night before. 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.160 It was like, okay, we do this, do that, do that, 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:54.320 and we went out there and at the end of 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.520 the show, towards the end. Normally we were asked at the beginning, 0:01:57.560 --> 0:01:59.440 but for this night, we asked it the end. We 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:01.160 was like, how many was your first time seeing little 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.320 brother for the first time, and like the hands went up. 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:06.680 They had no idea who we were, but like we 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.400 rocked that shit and so it was. It was crazy. 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.360 It was like to be you're now a twenty year veteran, 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.400 straight up no bro facts, Like twenty years in to 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.200 still be picking up new fans, that is that's kind 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:18.680 of surreal. 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.840 And I'm noticing too that post COVID crowds. 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:22.400 I don't know. 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:23.920 And Rick, we can ask you about it as well 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:24.600 if you want to win. 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.080 It seems to me like post COVID concert crowds and 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:31.160 pre COVID concert crowds are two different things, yes, because 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.760 like everybody's high, everybody's high. 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:36.919 Yeah, I'm just I mean, I remember the first gig 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:40.280 we did. Hi, by the way, I remember the first 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:40.799 gig we did. 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.280 I'm gonna introduce you for Goohead. This is like this 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:45.200 is the cold Open. 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.680 Okay, that's good. Yeah, first gig we did in the UK. 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.360 And that first gig was kind of crazy because we 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:55.160 did it at a place called Networth, which is a 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.680 legendary country house if you like, just outside of London, 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.600 and it's been amaze see gigs done there. But we 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.640 played to about two and a half thousand people instead 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:06.880 of two hundred and fifty thousand people because they all 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.040 brought their car and they had a picnic space and 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.000 so they all sat in their cars or on the 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.160 bonnet of their car, the roof of the car, and 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.359 they were all given a picnic space. So it went 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.240 on for about a mile of this this thing. But 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.920 it was amazing because when the sun went down, everyone 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:25.360 was using their car lights to sort of say yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.919 and it was amazing. So it was a really strange gig. 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:31.080 But I could see, especially in the crew and the 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:33.239 people who'd been building the stage and you know what 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.960 I mean, and everything you could see people were really 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.640 really emotional. I mean, being on stage is an emotional 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:41.480 thing full stop, but being on stage in front of 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.560 a crowd after that, all that time that was it 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.400 was amazing, absolutely incredible, and we did a few that 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.240 summer that were just just amazing. You know. It just 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:53.080 made you feel lucky, made you feel i don't know, 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.800 like a newfound respect for being allowed to do what 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:56.120 you do. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:00.520 You know, it was very much like watching the route. 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.600 It was not versus in the past where you would 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.680 see people kind of in their bodies for lack of 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:06.920 a better word, where it's like. 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.000 Throw your hands up, scream shot whatever. It's like all 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:10.320 of that. 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:13.080 You can just see them just kind of in their heads, 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.440 like they're just watching it and like, you know, like 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.760 just kind of taking it in and they're enjoying, they're 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.479 having a ball, but they're just in their heads, just 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.400 kind of watching it. And yeah, that was definitely something 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:26.960 I noticed. I'm like, okay, yeah, these post COVID shows, 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.719 in the pre COVID this it's a whole different. 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:35.000 Well that said, ladies and gentlemen, I will say that 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:40.800 our guest is probably beyond just fame. Okay, So he's 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.240 a musician, singer, songwriter from the UK. I like to 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.240 say the UK, like I'm from the UK. I only 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:48.080 lived there for four years, but I make people from 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:51.560 the UK actually think that, you know that I'm an actual, 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.720 like lifelong resident there, you know. And he came into 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:57.080 our radar, at least my radar for a lot of 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.520 us here in the States, you know, of course in 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:03.680 the late a and made it absolutely impossible to forget 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.760 his music. And I'll say that's an actual achievement. And 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.560 even to this day, those singles, very strong, very potent 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:15.960 singles are dropped and it's instant happiness and joy, you know, 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:18.840 and even going has so much to say, I'll be 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:24.880 it kind of an unusual achievement, but I will well, 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:29.599 I'll ask you, fante, if Michael Jackson owns Halloween and 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:34.520 Mariah Carrey owns Christmas, I almost think that our guess 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.560 today might own April Fool's Day, which is kind of 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:40.720 a weird quote to say. And you know, I'm not 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.080 even implaning that our guess is a joke or his 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:44.800 music is a joke. Far from it. But you know, 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.839 for clarification purposes, I'll say that, you know, we all 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.119 live in the the you know this like the twenty 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:56.360 twenty fifth year of really the internet sort of in 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.400 our lives, and I think I would say that the 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.239 first mean he yes, exactly. 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:03.840 They have been the first what we now know is 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.400 Internet being cultured, Like, yes, that's the first one. 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.520 I think. I think he really was originating. 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.160 Well, definitely one of the earliest examples of the sticky 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.279 factor as we you know, as something viral, you know, 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.080 which in the eyes of gen Z like that's that's 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:24.480 a serious achievement our I guess, yes, it's it's the same. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.640 You know, you're you're, you're you will be here forever, 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.360 long after we're going from Earth, you know. And in 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.880 the fact that even his name can imply, you know, 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.760 not only being a proper nown but you know, to 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.320 be rick rolled is to is the new Oki dokie 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:45.320 falling for the ok having successfully pulled the prank I'll 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.680 say that in my research, I didn't realize that YouTube 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:54.000 themselves when they you know, established in two thousand and seven, 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:58.000 two thousand and eight, YouTube themselves actually invented what we 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.760 call rick rolling. For the two three of you that 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.919 don't know what rick rowling means, it's the thing where 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:08.000 someone shares a serious video with you and then about 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:12.000 twelve seconds and your hit with again the irresistible course 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.120 of never going to give you up. And you know, 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:20.000 I will say that probably during the pandemic, I'm giving 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.800 a shout out to my pal jin Grabel from Philadelphia, 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.679 who is one of the biggest rig Ghastly fans ever. 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:31.120 I've fallen down a vicious rabbit hole and looking at 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.760 all anything that you do in concert, she'll instantly send me, so, 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:39.560 you know, to see these Springsteen covers are born to run, 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.880 and your Nirvana covers and you know, the everything from 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.760 your food fighters to a CDC covers you on drums, 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:52.080 all these things you covering, like the Smith songs, Like 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.880 I'm really genuinely this, you know, I had to have 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.720 you on the show because I've like discovered a rekindled 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.520 fandom for our guests to day that goes way beyond, 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.360 just like you know the Rickrolling part of his career, 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:09.000 but you know there's a long time coming. So welcome 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:10.960 to your quest of Supreme. This is Rick Astley. Thank 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:11.640 you for joining us. 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.560 Man, Thank you. It's a pleasure to be Thanks for 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:19.400 that extraordinary introduction as well. I'll take that on board 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.520 in a very heartfelt way. So it's nice to be. 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:25.720 Well, we mean it. Where are you right now? 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.920 Right now? We're between Vegas and Fresno. I'm on tour 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.000 right now. I got invited last year to come to 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.200 America and do a tour with Are you ready for this? 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.559 New kids on the block on Vogue as I call 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.720 them on Vogue. I've been told you've got to say 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.200 en Vogue. I'm like, no, I'm European. It's on Vogue 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.280 and Salt and Pepper. And we're having a lot of fun, 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:51.199 i can tell you. And we had a day off yesterday, 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.400 which is which is always nice obviously me in Vegas, 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.920 we hade a bit fun. But the gigs have just 0:08:55.960 --> 0:09:00.120 been amazing and it's very unusual for me because I 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:04.440 haven't done anything like this, certainly in America anyway, where 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:06.319 you get a group of artists together and go out 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:07.880 and do that. I have done it in Europe a 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.480 different places, but I've never really been to America and 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:12.840 do it. And obviously it's we're just having a ball 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.160 right now. So I'm on my bus right now heading 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:16.040 to Fresno. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:21.360 So that that also explains the video that came out 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.080 with the four of you bring Back the Time. 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:25.240 Yeah, yeah, I believe. 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:30.680 Yeah, so's so weird because normally, you know, I'll see 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.360 package tours and acts get together and you know, they 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.200 might interact with each other whatever. But the fact that 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:41.640 you guys got together to sort of collaborate and no 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.640 one saw this coming, Like, could you explain the genesis 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:46.480 of how that came to be? Who put it together? 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.120 So yeah, so we've got a phone call and do 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:51.480 you want to come and do the mixtape tour? And 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:56.000 for me, I was kind of like, well, America is 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.960 a very different ball game. For me. It's I grew 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.959 up listening on what in America and doing gigs here. 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:04.520 Doing gigs here was always kind of like one of 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.560 the pinnacle things. You know, having some records on the 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.680 radio here was always an amazing thing because I know 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.440 then whether they liked them or not, whether they liked 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.160 my voice or not. I know Luther Vandrossad might me sing. 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.280 I know Al Green did, Bill Withers did, and those 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.920 guys unknowingly taught me to sing, you know what I mean. 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.280 So I kind of I always been Coming to America 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.760 is an amazing thing. With the MIXTEP tour is something 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:31.679 completely different because the New Kids fans are absolutely crazy 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.280 and I'm truly sure they know by now because we've 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:36.160 done a few gigs. But I meet that with a 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.400 lot of love. But they're absolutely crazy. So when I 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.680 kind of google googled the previous mixtape tours and the 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.960 fans and the everything, I spoke to Donnie Donny Walburg 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.440 quite a bit about it, and I just so, you 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:48.880 know what, let's just do it. We're gonna have a 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.560 lot of fun. It's not normal in the sense that 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.920 because it's a mixtape. I go on sing some songs 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.200 and then I hang around backstage and I watched the 0:10:58.240 --> 0:10:59.880 guys on I'm at the side of the stage watching 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.280 different artists, and then I kind of get ready to 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:03.959 go back at stage. You're going to do it again, 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.160 and I've never done that. It's kind of a it's 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.240 much more of a show in that respect. 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:09.400 Interact a review. 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.280 Yeah, yeah, exactly, And Johnny walked me through that, and 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.880 he talked me through that and explained how they do it. 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.199 And so I think once you get over that and 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.000 kind of realize what it is as opposed to going 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:21.040 up and opening for an artist and doing your forty 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.079 five minutes, doing your hour, and then going off and done, 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:26.640 it's a totally different thing. And also one of the 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.960 things that I have huge respect for them for doing this. 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.640 They open the gig, they go on first, and then 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.560 they introduce, and then they introduce an artist. Tell me 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.120 a headline act in the world. Who does that? 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:46.520 A meal? I'd about to say I pioneered this, Okay, no, no, no, no, 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:51.160 but I no no ideas original. But you know, I 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.439 always hated the ideal of like someone goes on first, 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.360 someone goes on second, which is you know, which I'm 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.360 also kind of I know it's comedy, but oh d 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:05.400 l monique thing, because I just think that, you know, 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.560 it's more unique to do. Motown reviews used to be 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:12.240 that way, like three songs from CV, three songs from 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.440 the Supremes, three songs to and then people come back 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:16.920 and interact. So I've been I've been doing that for 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.000 like twenty years, and I'm finally when you said that, 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.400 I was like, ah, finally someone else is doing it. 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:27.080 That's dope. Even up until twenty seventeen, eighteen, and nineteen, 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.720 there will be occasional towns in which the roots and 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:33.640 new Kids on the Block will be in the same 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:41.080 hotel and absolutely nothing has changed. Like now, you know, 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.960 Donnie told me, like, you know, back in the day, 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.400 it was it was the mother's trying to hook up 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:48.880 the daughters. But now it's like you have daughters taking 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.760 their mothers to new Kids on the Block shows and 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:54.480 they're hanging around the hotel. 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.400 Yeah, well there's a lot I'm telling you what has 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.640 kind of shocked me a little bit. Of course, most 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.160 of the audiences of an age because they were there 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.280 for the first records, they bought the first records, they 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.679 went on all the tos. But I'm telling you, it's 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:09.720 kind of odd. There's a lot of younger people in 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.600 that audience and they know all their tunes and they 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.040 are like fully paid up members of being the blockhead 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.560 family and everything, and it's really nice to see. But 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.000 I think you know we're talking. You guys were talking 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.000 about the internet before. That's just changed the way that 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:27.200 everybody listens to music obviously and gets their music, but 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.000 also the way they feel about it. And they don't 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.400 sometimes have the same thing that I certainly did when 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.600 I was a kid about Oh, that's for old people. 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.800 And I don't think older people are afraid to go 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:42.760 and say, well, you know what, I want to go 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.240 and see this artist, even though I'm old enough to 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.920 be their mom or dad. I just want to go 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.679 and see them. And I think that that generational thing 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:56.319 has gone away to a great degree. You know, well, 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.400 I just think the festival thing, if you look at that, 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.320 it's so plectical these days. Who you can be on 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.720 before or after or on the next stage. It's just unbelievable. 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:08.600 So when you look at the audience there's a bit 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:10.400 of that as well, you know, it's it's it's a 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.920 random bag of people that just want to wear music, 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.280 you know, don't really Yeah, so it's I think it's 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:17.560 quite a beautiful thing, to be honest. 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:18.800 Now I do too. 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.160 I think this like with the audience now, you know, 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:25.880 because no one has to pay for music anymore. I 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.360 think that it's just pretty much they have the room 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:29.160 to explore in a. 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:30.000 Way that we didn't. 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:31.320 You know what I mean, if we had to go 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.280 to the record store you had ten dollars, Yeah, ten 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.120 dollars was a choice, you know what I'm saying. 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:37.840 You had to make real decisions. 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:42.680 But now you know, with everything available, they just hear music, 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:44.200 you know, And I saw that. That was what I 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.120 started to get, Like, they don't even think, like my 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.440 kids and my sons, like, they don't even look in 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.960 terms of genre or anything. If they like it, they 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:54.560 like it and that's all they know, and that's all 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:55.120 they care about. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:57.560 I think the other thing is they don't they don't 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.800 actually care if the artist is dead. And I don't 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.000 think that in a callous ware and no emotion where 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.040 they're just like, I love this, What is it? Oh 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.280 it's Frank Sonatra. Oh really do you know who? Frank 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.880 Socenarta was not really well coming on? A look at 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:09.920 this and I'll explain it to you. 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.880 Yeah, there no more context, there's no more new music 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:14.720 and all music it's just music, you know, in music, 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:16.080 that's it, right? 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.240 Yeah, So can you tell us where in the UK 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:22.080 were you born? I'm assuming that you were born in 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:23.040 the UK, where were you born? 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:24.960 Yeah, No, I was. I was. I was born in 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.760 a very very small town and it's equidistant from Liverpool 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:30.600 and Manchester. It's right in the middle of both of them. 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:34.000 It's about twenty miles either side. That town is called 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:38.040 Newton the Willows and that is hyphenated as in Newton 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.080 in the Willows. It sounds a lot posher than it 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.880 actually is. It's okay. It was an okay place to 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.080 go up and everything. And my sister still lives there 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.920 and my mum up until she passed away, recently lived 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.680 there and it's an okay town. But it's a small town. 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.040 And we then, so for us go into either of 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.160 Manchester or Liverpool was our way of going to a 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:03.200 shop might have some actual trendy clothes or you know, 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.400 more than one record store, do you know what I mean? 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.200 Where you could go to like four of that, you know. 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.400 And obviously the first time we really went to stores 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.680 to go and look at musical instruments, that was in Manchester. 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.520 Because you know, you jumped on the train or you 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.440 got you know, an older brother sister to take you 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:20.000 and you went into Manchester. That was our big deal. 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.360 With you know, I see. Can you tell me what 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.840 your first musical memory was. 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.520 It's hard to say, obviously for anybody. I know. The 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.280 jungle Book record was a massive thing for me. I mean, 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:35.960 our kids love Disney and they love music because it's 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.080 because it's amazing. The quality of it is always great. 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:42.000 They're still doing great music, I think for the jungle Bug. 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.120 For me, we had that vinyl record at home and 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.160 I'm the youngest of four, so my sister was into 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.200 all kinds of music. She used to go and watch 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.040 a lot of what she used to watch everything. She 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.040 going to Manchester, Liverpool, and so she had a really 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.720 great record collection. But a lot of her music was 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.160 like there was a lot of progressive rock in it, 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:03.680 but she'd also have like quite a bit of Bowie 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.800 which she'd have a lot of American classic soul as well, 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.840 Marvin Gay, Stevie Wonder obviously, things like that. She loved 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:11.600 the Beatles as well, So I broke with a lot 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.440 of that. But I wanted the jungle Book because obviously 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.720 to me, I've been taken to the movies to see 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.199 the film, and once you've seen a film like that 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:20.840 and then you've got the vinyl of it at home, 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:23.080 you can you can plan to watch the movie again 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.479 in your head, can't you. I just loved it, and 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.160 that's so for me that I probably just sat there 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.080 waiting for everyone to leave the room and then got 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.080 my moment to put because we probably had one record 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:34.560 player when I was five years old, do you know 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.439 what I mean? That was probably it so, But I 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.440 think in terms of I just went to see Paul 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.240 McCartney actually a week or so ago in Fort Work 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:48.600 in Dallas, and a lot of the Beople's music as 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.439 for anybody obviously, of course for everybody on the planet, 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:53.080 but it was a bit of a game change in 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.080 some of those records, I think, even as a really 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.760 young kid, because a lot of their music at certain 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.440 times has got a lot of childlike quality to it. 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.239 There is we all, there's all, there's we all live 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:06.119 in a yellow submarine in there. And that's so that 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:07.600 as a kid, that brings you in, do you know 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:08.880 what I mean? And then all of a sudden you're 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.720 listening to I don't know the Holestalgic Pepper or what 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.600 I've been thinking, what is this? But it's when I 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.439 say childlike I don't mean that in any geogratory obviously. 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.560 I mean there's a real innocence to some of their stuff, 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.040 even though it becomes really complicated and intricate and beautiful 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.200 as well, there's a real simplicity to it at times, 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.560 you know. So, so I think the Beatles were quite 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.560 an easy one to get into as well well. 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:36.000 Because they were they were influenced by you know, timpan Alley, 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.480 which you know that that sort of era of music, 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.800 a timpan Alley is closer to show tunes and. 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:44.000 Your musical stuff. 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.840 And you know, it's it's rather genius that you can 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.600 create music that an eight year old that can stick 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.600 to an eight year old and an eighty year old 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:55.480 at the same time. 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.280 Absolutely, yeah, and seems hip. 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.639 Do you remember the the first music that you purchased 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:04.200 yourself with your own money? 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.720 Well, it wasn't money exactly. My dad had given me 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.560 some money to go and buy a pair of jeans, 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.600 right and there was a store. This wasn't in Manchester 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:15.760 or Liverpool. This is a local town. Tour was a 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.560 small town. There's a little store that so told jeans 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.359 and all kinds of different things that kids would wear. 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:22.600 You know, and he gave me the money and I 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.879 went in and I bought the jeans. I was probably 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.080 only about nine years old of this, but he's probably 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:30.000 outside in the car waiting for me, kind of thing. 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.440 And I went in saying nine I could have whatever. 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.280 Went in and it also had like a little record 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.480 store as part of it, which was a bit bizarre, 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.720 I guess, but whatever, And you bought a pair of 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:42.760 jeans on that day and they allowed you to have 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.480 a single. So I went in next door and I'm 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:47.320 just looking. I had no clue, and I knew my 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:49.080 dad was in the car like waiting, and he's like 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:51.720 he's not going to be messed around, you know. So 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.520 I just said, I'll have what other's number one? Please? 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.719 And it was luckily it was I Feel Loved by 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:03.440 Donna Summer. So I got a great record out of it. Anyway. Yeah, 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.479 but that but that wasn't my so I was eleven. 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:10.040 Now I think that it wasn't necessarily a choice, and 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:11.800 it wasn't really my money, if you know what I mean. 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.159 It sort of came with the pair of jeans. But 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:15.880 it was quite It was quite a thing because when 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:18.320 I went home, I suddenly kind of realized I own 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.440 this record. It's not one of my brothers or my sisters. 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:22.280 This is mine, do you know what I mean? Because 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.359 all I've done really was just pinched their records and 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:26.800 just played them. You know, That's all I've done up 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:27.320 to that point. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.119 So at least by that point did you have a 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:32.720 singing voice? Were you? 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.800 I was always picked to be in school plays. I 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:38.919 was in a church choir as well. But it's not 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.560 as you guys will know. It's not a gospel or anything. 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.600 It's a very very Church of England and very kind 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.760 of straight and white like you know that. But it's 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:49.400 still singing with other people, and that I still think 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:53.080 that thing of a choral group of people making that 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.080 that I'm going to say, noise. I'm not even to 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.600 fall like music right now. Just making that noise together 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.719 is the most what's the word to use, It's the 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.600 most sort of primeval way of making music because you know, 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:07.919 when you take away the organists, and I remember we 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:09.320 used to do that. We used to sing just on 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.159 our own a lot of the time, especially when he 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:13.920 was like getting us through different pieces to learn them 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:17.399 and everything. It's just a bunch of people using this 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.000 to make a noise, and it's quite I'm not saying 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.800 I used that at all today, but I think it's 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:26.640 still it did something to me, even though on dinner 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:28.280 for a couple of years, but it definitely made me 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:29.960 aware of the fact that a group of people come 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.720 together harmonize or not and what have you, and make 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:36.280 music and that's and there's no even instrument to go through, 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.560 do you know what I mean? And I even think 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.880 from a timing point of view, because I got into 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:44.760 playing drums as a little kid and stuff, and we 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:46.760 say little kid, I was probably in the teenage years. 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.600 If you're not in sync and in time as a choir, 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:52.880 it's just a mess. And I think that even sort 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.360 of got me going a bit with you know, got 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:56.760 to be on the river, you know, on the beat 0:21:56.840 --> 0:21:57.520 and everything. You know. 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:01.919 So basically singing with a choir taught you how to 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:03.040 blend with other voices. 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:05.640 And I guess, yeah, I mean, I'm still not very 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:07.600 good at that now, to be honest, I'm one of 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:11.720 those archetypal kind of big head from a person singers 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:13.919 that when I'm try and do harmonies, I'll do the 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:15.439 harmony and I'm great and then at some part I 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:19.240 go off lost it now and I start singing the yeah, 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:21.399 because I find it really hard to do it. And 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:23.199 even when I do, you know, when I'm working on 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:25.600 something at home and I'm just putting harmonies in and stuff, 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:28.800 sometimes have to map them out on a piano and 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:30.439 then bang them into my head, you know, I mean 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:32.320 literally to be able to get me singing the harmony. 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:34.000 So yeah, I don't know. 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:38.840 So so by the mid seventies, and I've heard, you know, 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:43.439 this narrative from people that grew up in London at 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:48.640 the time. I mean, so many types of music sort 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:51.479 of avenues could be traveled by, Like of course, you know, 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:57.360 the the punk movement is you know, is ramping up. 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:00.440 Then the sort of I guess you could say mod 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:05.639 movement or or you know, whatever they call Rudy's or 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:10.240 whatever you would categorize the specials or madness that those 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:14.399 types of whatever sky groups or whatever. And then of course, 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:16.920 you know, I know about the history of Northern soul 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:20.920 and generally just you know, the respect that the UK 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:24.359 has for soul music in general. And of course you 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.320 know seventy seven is where disco is also having its moment. 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:34.200 What grabbed you? I mean to be eleven at that time, 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:37.240 when there's like five options to go to. Yeah, yeah, 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:41.040 what grabbed you the most? 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:44.679 I think. I think I've always still I always have 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:49.680 responded to singers full stop, because I think as much 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:52.920 as I admire I mean, you know, possible getting to that, 0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:55.120 I don't know, but I mean, because I started playing 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:58.240 drums as a kid, I always loved fans that had 0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:01.240 interesting drummers. So the Police that he loved, and they 0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:03.840 weren't punk, but they sort of came out of the thing. 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:06.639 Phil Collins is one of my all time favorite drummers 0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:08.680 and he's not even remembered as a drummer at the time. 0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:13.040 It's ridiculous. But anyway, but they go, they go. I 0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:16.359 know that. I think certainly with my sister, played a 0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:19.399 lot of Motown at home, and a lot of Northern 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:22.320 Soul as well, actually, and they're very, very very similar. 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:24.840 And to be honest, I struggled to find out which 0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:27.280 is which half the time, but whatever, and all of 0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:30.639 those records and very much about the vocals. I mean, 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:32.760 you were mentioned in Motown before about when they used 0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:34.359 to go out and do tours and stuff like a 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:38.720 review tour and stuff. Any one of those vocalists would, 0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:42.359 in my opinion anyway, kind of wipe the floor with 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:45.840 a lot of people who've had the chance to make 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:48.800 records since. To be honest, I think Motown was an 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:54.119 absolute golden era for vocalists. Was even though the songwriters 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:57.520 and producers of those records were incredible and amazing and 0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:00.760 they had such a platform to go from as a singer, 0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:04.520 those voices have stood the test of time forever, and 0:25:04.600 --> 0:25:07.280 I don't think there's a person with a pulse that 0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:10.440 doesn't respond to Motown. And obviously it's the groove, it's 0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:15.159 the feel, it's everything. It's also because Marvin Gay, Diana Ross, whatever, 0:25:15.280 --> 0:25:19.280 you know, name any of them, when they sang you 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:23.440 didn't question it at all. It was just truly amazing. 0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:30.399 Do you have a memory of your first concert. 0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:33.320 I can't remember which came first. My sister, like I said, 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:35.600 used to go to gigs all the time. So when 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:40.600 I was about ten, my sister took me to see 0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:44.399 one was Super Tramp, which is self explanatory for anybody 0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:46.360 who knows Super Tip music, and I'm sure everyone does 0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:49.560 unless you've been living under a rock as a ten 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:52.720 year old kid. I was completely blown away, but blown 0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:55.760 away in loads of different ways. Because I was ten, 0:25:56.000 --> 0:25:58.920 I shouldn't really have been there, perhaps, but I think 0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:01.359 she used to think I was like fashion accessory to 0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:03.400 bring a ten year old kid to a gig where 0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:06.480 everyone's kind of smoking different things and what have you 0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:09.400 and hanging out and deliver. But it just blew me away. 0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:12.800 And their music I think is because the other band, 0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:14.480 and I don't know which was first, was a band 0:26:14.520 --> 0:26:17.840 called Camel and that's a progressive rock band. And I've 0:26:17.840 --> 0:26:21.080 said this before, who have flute solos longer than some 0:26:21.119 --> 0:26:22.680 of the records I've made, you know what I mean. 0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:25.760 So it's kind of like, yeah, I mean, I mean, 0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:29.119 you know, it wasn't about vocalists. It was about the music. 0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:32.680 It was, you know. And but the super Tramp One 0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:35.840 I think was amazing for so many different reasons. They were, 0:26:36.520 --> 0:26:38.440 well still are, but they were such an amazing band 0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:41.560 because they had great, like sort of pop songs. Maybe 0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:43.600 that's not a fair term to call them, but they 0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:46.080 were very popular. So there were pop songs, but the 0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:49.200 instrumentation and the way they used to go about it 0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:51.919 was really quirky, was really different and kind of a 0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:54.320 bit like nothing else, but to me anyway listening to it. 0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:56.960 So I came out of well both of those geeks, 0:26:56.960 --> 0:26:59.280 but I can't remember which one was first. And I 0:26:59.280 --> 0:27:01.240 think it was a game changing for me. I kind 0:27:01.240 --> 0:27:03.320 of thought, I want to do that because when the 0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:06.919 lights went down, it turned on the smoke machine and 0:27:06.920 --> 0:27:09.560 then the colored lights come on and it all even 0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:11.280 back then, you know, going to a gig was like 0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:15.359 this mystical, mythical experience. It was like something. It was 0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:17.960 like another world, you know. So yeah, so I think 0:27:18.000 --> 0:27:20.160 both of those were game changes a big time. 0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:25.280 The first band you were in it was called FBI. 0:27:25.240 --> 0:27:26.760 Well that was the second one. I was in a 0:27:26.800 --> 0:27:29.439 band called give Way because we have a sign in 0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:31.280 the UK. You may have it in America. I can't remember. 0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:34.040 It's a triangle it says give Way. And our bass 0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:37.400 player Jeff, stole one on the way home from somewhere 0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:39.320 and stuck it in front of my drums and we said, oh, 0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:43.560 that's what we're called then, right, Okay, So yeah, that 0:27:43.640 --> 0:27:45.399 was That was when I was still at high school, 0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:49.160 as you call it, And there were three bands who 0:27:49.240 --> 0:27:52.439 did an audition for the music teacher to see who 0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:55.600 could play at the Valentine's Disco, right, And we were 0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:59.560 like fifteen going on sixteen at this point. And I 0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:01.560 was never one of the cool kids at school. I 0:28:01.640 --> 0:28:04.040 wasn't really a geek. I wasn't like, you know, a 0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:07.280 swap or whatever. I just I just got through school, 0:28:07.280 --> 0:28:08.399 if you know what I mean. I just kept my 0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:11.160 head down and got through it. The other couple of bands, 0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:14.840 one of them was all the cool kids, like there 0:28:14.920 --> 0:28:18.040 was a catching of the football soccer team captain of 0:28:18.080 --> 0:28:20.520 this day, you know, the good looking guys. They had 0:28:20.520 --> 0:28:22.040 all the nice guys. But you know what I mean, 0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:24.960 they were the cool kids, you know, and we weren't. 0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:29.199 But we could play. So we did the audition and 0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:32.199 we blew the other bands away. I was singing So 0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:35.439 Lonely by the Police from the drums, which was like 0:28:35.480 --> 0:28:37.360 the coolest thing in the world because it was like, 0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:39.400 you know, we were doing police songs and they were 0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:42.000 doing something that wasn't anywhere near school of that. And 0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:44.040 we did a couple of other things. We also did 0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:47.520 a Joy Division song, which again was like just the 0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:49.320 coolest thing in the world. I think it's you know, 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:52.760 the teachers were not expecting that at all. And so 0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:57.040 we got the gig and I got five Valentine's Cards 0:28:57.080 --> 0:28:57.480 that year. 0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:02.160 Are you the lead singer of the group or well, no. 0:29:01.920 --> 0:29:04.040 No, no, the bass player Jeff was. But I used 0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:08.960 to sing a couple from the drums, and. 0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:09.640 And again always was then hard to sing so lonely. 0:29:10.080 --> 0:29:17.600 I sang it an octave lower. Yeah, yeah, and I 0:29:17.720 --> 0:29:21.760 just think again, talk about pivotal moments and stuff. Not 0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:24.040 because I've got the Valentine's cards, but we were We 0:29:24.080 --> 0:29:27.600 walked around school for the next two weeks as if 0:29:27.600 --> 0:29:31.040 we were different people, like people. I'm not we we 0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:32.840 didn't have high five back then. I don't think. I 0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:34.760 don't think it was a thing to high five somebody. 0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:38.600 But it was like people just kind of like, you 0:29:38.600 --> 0:29:40.600 know what I mean, just getting acknowledged in the corridors 0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:42.440 at school or right in the playground or what I mean. 0:29:42.480 --> 0:29:45.840 We were just we became different people overnight because we've 0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:49.520 done this gig, and it was like, yeah, I don't know, really, 0:29:49.560 --> 0:29:51.640 it was very It was very interesting I think in 0:29:51.720 --> 0:29:56.240 terms of your ego and just just the absolute joy 0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:58.880 of walking off stage going wow, we just we just 0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:01.560 did that. That just happened. People actually listened to dance 0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:04.400 and you know, so, yeah, it's pretty amazing. 0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:08.040 I went through that in high school. But I wasn't 0:30:08.120 --> 0:30:10.040 the band that blew everyone away. I was one of 0:30:10.080 --> 0:30:15.680 the bands that got blown away because I went to 0:30:15.720 --> 0:30:21.320 school with boys the men. So yeah, so I still 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:24.479 say they cheated, but you know they you know, they 0:30:24.520 --> 0:30:28.840 had tuxedos and glitter and top hats and canes and everything, 0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:31.600 and they were singing. They were singing new addition songs, 0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:34.800 and I just felt like all my hopes and dreams 0:30:34.800 --> 0:30:37.760 to impress, like who I wanted to impress is it 0:30:37.800 --> 0:30:40.840 went down the drain, because like could. 0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:42.440 They could they sing that great? Then? As well? 0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:46.440 Dude? They were? They were, Yes, they were. If ever, 0:30:46.560 --> 0:30:49.280 there was a group of people ready for their close up. 0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:52.080 It was boys to men. And the thing was that 0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:57.760 after that Valentine's thing was over, Like girls were treating 0:30:57.840 --> 0:31:01.240 them like it was you know, you ever see the 0:31:01.560 --> 0:31:06.000 I Want to Hold Your Hand movie, first film about 0:31:06.000 --> 0:31:08.960 the Beatles. Yeah, yeah, like they were chasing them in 0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:11.320 like seventh period and all this stuff, and I'm like, 0:31:12.120 --> 0:31:14.520 it's just them, Like what the hell, they're not stars, 0:31:14.520 --> 0:31:18.760 they go to our school. But yeah, they after that performance, 0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:20.880 things were never the same again. 0:31:20.720 --> 0:31:24.440 Listen, I feel your pain. I also think it's a weird, weird, 0:31:24.520 --> 0:31:27.760 weird thing. I was not one of the kind of 0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:30.200 cute kids at school or good looking kids by any 0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:33.880 stretch of the imagination, right, But I think what happens 0:31:34.000 --> 0:31:37.480 is when you've been on TV and on a record 0:31:37.520 --> 0:31:41.000 cover and on what have you, the media themselves start 0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:43.760 calling your handsome or start calling you something. I don't 0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:47.320 know what, but you know, and and it's like, now 0:31:47.360 --> 0:31:49.320 you got this wrong. I'm exactly the same as I 0:31:49.480 --> 0:31:51.880 was last week. It's just about a hit record. But 0:31:52.080 --> 0:31:53.960 I mean, that is pretty crazy to be at school 0:31:54.440 --> 0:31:56.800 with boys to men and them singing the way they do. 0:31:56.880 --> 0:31:58.560 If they were singing like that back then, that must 0:31:58.560 --> 0:31:59.600 have been wild. 0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:03.200 Yeah, they had every grown the palm their hands. Were 0:32:03.240 --> 0:32:05.240 you thinking of a music career by this point or 0:32:05.360 --> 0:32:09.200 was it just like, you know, our graduate school and 0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:12.360 then go to university and no, I think I wanted to. 0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:15.239 I think my upbringing was kind of what was it. 0:32:15.280 --> 0:32:17.840 I'm from a very working class area, but my dad 0:32:17.880 --> 0:32:20.120 had a little business. He ended up having a little 0:32:20.160 --> 0:32:23.440 garden center and we all we all have two brothers 0:32:23.440 --> 0:32:25.240 and my sister and all of us kind of off 0:32:25.280 --> 0:32:26.840 and on did work there. And I used to work 0:32:26.880 --> 0:32:28.960 there in school, holidays and after school and all the 0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:31.160 rest of it. And so we were lucky in the 0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:33.280 respect that we did kind of have a little job 0:32:33.320 --> 0:32:35.440 to go to. He didn't have a big he didn't 0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:37.360 employ lots of people or anything. I think he employed 0:32:37.360 --> 0:32:39.160 one or two other people, and then we kind of 0:32:39.160 --> 0:32:42.400 worked on stuff. And where we were from was kind 0:32:42.400 --> 0:32:45.120 of hit very very badly in the mid and late 0:32:45.160 --> 0:32:47.360 eighties in terms of the way that the world changed. 0:32:47.680 --> 0:32:49.680 You know, we don't we don't manufacture so much in 0:32:49.720 --> 0:32:52.720 the UK anymore, like like Americas to that degree, you know, 0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:54.760 and we don't do a lot, you know, coal mines 0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:57.000 and all the all the old things. 0:32:56.680 --> 0:32:59.120 That industry that were still hanging on too. 0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:02.640 Yeah, and people, certainly from the little town where I'm 0:33:02.680 --> 0:33:05.440 from and a lot of towns around it, those things 0:33:05.440 --> 0:33:08.160 don't exist anymore. And it was in that transition period, 0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:10.640 you know. So we were really lucky that my dad 0:33:10.640 --> 0:33:12.960 did have a little business and it survived and everything, 0:33:13.240 --> 0:33:14.680 but we didn't really have a lot of money or 0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:17.719 anything like that. And I think for me, I just 0:33:18.400 --> 0:33:21.160 I wanted to I wanted to get out of that 0:33:21.200 --> 0:33:24.000 little town and I wanted to go and do something 0:33:24.040 --> 0:33:27.680 with my life. I don't know what that meant, and 0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:29.160 I think the truth of it was I kind of 0:33:29.160 --> 0:33:32.520 felt that music was a way of possibly doing that, 0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:35.120 and I did love music, don't get me wrong, I did. 0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:37.040 You know, I got a drunk it when I was fifteen, 0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:39.120 and I was never ever off it, just ever. I 0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:41.000 used to play in my dad's greenhouse, which he used 0:33:41.000 --> 0:33:43.440 to have this fairly big glasshouse, you know, where the 0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:44.600 plants were and all the rest of it. And he 0:33:44.600 --> 0:33:47.400 allowed myself to have a drunket there and my two 0:33:47.400 --> 0:33:49.080 friends to come and play there as well, which is 0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:51.160 we made an awful racket, even though we were you know, 0:33:51.160 --> 0:33:55.000 we thought we were great. But so that was pretty lucky. 0:33:55.480 --> 0:33:57.520 But I also think my mum and dad divorced when 0:33:57.560 --> 0:34:00.680 I was really really young, and I didn't the happiest 0:34:00.720 --> 0:34:02.040 of home lives, if you know what I mean. It 0:34:02.080 --> 0:34:05.120 wasn't It wasn't tough. It wasn't horrible in what a 0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:07.680 lot of people have been tough, but it definitely left 0:34:07.680 --> 0:34:09.520 the hole, there's no doubt about it. My mom and 0:34:09.640 --> 0:34:12.640 dad they both passed away now they never spoke to 0:34:12.680 --> 0:34:16.239 each other. Ever. If my mom rang the house, my 0:34:16.320 --> 0:34:18.680 dad would just kind of like he just put the 0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:20.920 phone receiver down and walk away. And that's how we 0:34:20.960 --> 0:34:25.080 knew it was my mom. And I was brought I 0:34:25.120 --> 0:34:26.680 was brought up by my dad. I lived with my dad, 0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:29.359 because it's a long story, but I saw my mom 0:34:29.400 --> 0:34:32.640 all the time. But I think I also felt somehow, 0:34:32.880 --> 0:34:36.080 even at that age, and I'm not saying I actually 0:34:36.200 --> 0:34:38.960 knew this, but I think I felt it somewhere that 0:34:39.200 --> 0:34:42.359 music and getting out of that was going to take 0:34:42.400 --> 0:34:43.759 me away from that, do you know what I mean? 0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:45.319 It was going to give me a different life where 0:34:45.320 --> 0:34:48.520 I could sort of start again. And I think sometimes 0:34:48.520 --> 0:34:51.600 if you if you brought up in a fairly unhappy house, 0:34:51.680 --> 0:34:55.040 which I was, you just want to kind of like 0:34:55.120 --> 0:34:57.000 turn the key on the door and walk into another 0:34:57.080 --> 0:34:59.160 space and just leave it where it is, do you 0:34:59.160 --> 0:35:00.440 know what I mean. I'm not saying you can't ever 0:35:00.480 --> 0:35:03.440 go back there and just say, just just start again. 0:35:04.000 --> 0:35:06.319 And I did. I did feel that music was going 0:35:06.360 --> 0:35:07.840 to be the escape to do that, you know, to 0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:11.440 be coming getting a successful bound and just start again, 0:35:11.520 --> 0:35:11.719 you know. 0:35:12.719 --> 0:35:15.720 So what did the moment happened for you where you're like, Okay, 0:35:16.160 --> 0:35:16.960 I'm pursuing this. 0:35:21.480 --> 0:35:23.600 I'd have to say I was about seventeen, I think, 0:35:23.760 --> 0:35:26.640 because the band that I got in next was called FBI. 0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:30.040 And the first group I was in that we were 0:35:30.040 --> 0:35:31.600 in for a little while. One of the guys went 0:35:31.600 --> 0:35:34.239 to university and so we just and he's still a 0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:36.120 friend today. Actually I see him for coffee like once 0:35:36.239 --> 0:35:40.799 or two weeks were he went to university and you 0:35:40.800 --> 0:35:43.359 know all the rest of it, and we just split up. 0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:45.920 So I joined this other group and they were like 0:35:46.200 --> 0:35:51.640 they were called FBI because of it goes back to 0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:55.160 a group called the Shadows, who were the backing band 0:35:55.200 --> 0:35:57.040 for Cliff Richard. Do you know who Cliff Richard is? 0:35:57.080 --> 0:36:01.759 He's an English Cliff. Yeah, it goes through. So he 0:36:01.840 --> 0:36:03.719 was like the English Elvis if you like, you know 0:36:03.760 --> 0:36:07.520 what I mean? He was like the you know, and 0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:10.880 and they had a song called FBI. I think I 0:36:10.920 --> 0:36:13.279 think that's where it comes from. And the guy who 0:36:13.360 --> 0:36:15.400 was the lead guitarist in this in this band that 0:36:15.440 --> 0:36:19.120 I joined called FBI, was a Shadows freak. He absolutely 0:36:19.120 --> 0:36:20.400 loved them, and so that his dad. I think he 0:36:20.440 --> 0:36:22.520 got it from his dad. Really, so they were doing 0:36:22.560 --> 0:36:24.720 covers like that. They were doing a lot of early 0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:28.200 early Beatle songs, which are fantastic and great, don't get 0:36:28.239 --> 0:36:29.560 me wrong, but I would have loved to have been 0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:32.400 playing some of the later Beatles songs, but we weren't. 0:36:32.440 --> 0:36:35.560 We were playing the really really early ones, which is 0:36:35.600 --> 0:36:37.799 still great, like I say, and for a young band 0:36:37.840 --> 0:36:42.799 to learn to learn them anyway. And I got in 0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:44.880 that band as the drummer, and I sort of became 0:36:44.960 --> 0:36:47.160 the singer because I wanted us to kind of try 0:36:47.160 --> 0:36:50.080 and write some of our own material. And I borrowed 0:36:50.080 --> 0:36:51.640 a guitar from one of the guys and he showed 0:36:51.640 --> 0:36:54.319 me the three chords, and so I turned up at 0:36:54.360 --> 0:36:56.560 rehearsal a few weeks later and said, I've written some songs. 0:36:56.560 --> 0:36:59.560 Should we thrash them out? And I sort of became 0:36:59.760 --> 0:37:01.960 the singer because of that, really, because they're all looking 0:37:02.000 --> 0:37:04.600 at me, going, well, who's going to sing that? You know? 0:37:04.840 --> 0:37:07.400 And they said, well, you are so so that that's it. 0:37:07.440 --> 0:37:09.640 So we got a drummer and then from that point, 0:37:09.840 --> 0:37:13.040 I think I just sort of became the singer by default, really, 0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:15.000 And at that point I thought, if we're going to 0:37:15.040 --> 0:37:17.680 make this happen. I'm gonna have to push and drive this. 0:37:18.520 --> 0:37:20.520 And I think when you started doing your own songs, 0:37:20.560 --> 0:37:23.280 you think that's a different thing. That's not just earning 0:37:23.440 --> 0:37:25.799 living on a Friday and a Saturday and having a 0:37:25.800 --> 0:37:27.359 regular job. Do you know what I mean? Like doing 0:37:27.360 --> 0:37:29.280 your job and then earning a bit of extra money. 0:37:29.600 --> 0:37:33.920 That's how do we how do we become how do 0:37:34.000 --> 0:37:35.879 we become known? How do we get people to hear 0:37:35.880 --> 0:37:38.399 these songs? And that that at that point is like, well, 0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:39.279 that's what I'm going to do. 0:37:39.320 --> 0:37:42.960 Then you know, by this point are you developing the 0:37:43.080 --> 0:37:45.319 voice that we know now or you're still trying to 0:37:45.320 --> 0:37:46.040 find well. 0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:47.600 I think I think one of the things is I 0:37:47.640 --> 0:37:49.600 think in the eighties or late eighties, a lot a 0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:52.759 lot of British music there was there was more kind 0:37:52.760 --> 0:37:55.200 of it was pop, definitely pop, and it was in 0:37:55.239 --> 0:37:58.480 the charts. It was successful, but it was a lot 0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:01.319 of people sang with a much lower tone or a 0:38:01.320 --> 0:38:04.160 lower register with their voice. It was very normal today 0:38:04.200 --> 0:38:06.840 and I think for twenty five years or more, everything's 0:38:07.000 --> 0:38:09.399 very very high with male singers most of the time. 0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:12.719 And I think back then a lot of records had 0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:16.040 a lot of for instance, the guy called Edwin Collins 0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:18.319 who was in a bank called Orange Juice, right, and 0:38:18.360 --> 0:38:21.239 he had this point, yeah, yeah, And there was a 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:23.560 lot of them. There was I'm trying to think by 0:38:23.600 --> 0:38:24.920 now and I can't because I'm on the spot to 0:38:24.920 --> 0:38:26.560 think of them. But what I'm trying to say that 0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:28.719 there were a lot of voices that were deeper and 0:38:28.760 --> 0:38:30.360 it was kind of cool to be that. It was 0:38:30.480 --> 0:38:33.040 edgy and it was cool. But then when I listened to, 0:38:33.960 --> 0:38:37.640 for instance, if I listened to like Bill Withers, Bill 0:38:37.680 --> 0:38:41.480 Withers is obviously the greatest. He's written some of the greatest. 0:38:41.880 --> 0:38:44.000 One of the things I absolutely loved and still love 0:38:44.040 --> 0:38:46.640 about Bill Withers is that he's written some of the 0:38:46.680 --> 0:38:49.479 biggest songs in the world that five year old kids 0:38:49.520 --> 0:38:52.359 to eighty five year old grandma's now everybody knows. They've 0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:55.520 been in movies and everything. But he could probably be 0:38:55.560 --> 0:38:57.520 sat next to you eating a bowl of pasta in 0:38:57.560 --> 0:39:02.120 a nice restaurant somewhere, and I think ninety ninety of 0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:04.200 the people in the room wouldn't be able to recognize him. 0:39:04.440 --> 0:39:06.080 And I think that was for me, was like an 0:39:06.120 --> 0:39:08.600 amazing thing about him. Really, But that again that's another 0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:12.799 another universe to walk into. But I think but he 0:39:14.080 --> 0:39:16.960 had all the soul in the world, his lyrics, the 0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:19.680 actual music itself and the way he played and everything. 0:39:20.160 --> 0:39:23.480 But his voice obviously was incredibly soulful. But he didn't 0:39:23.520 --> 0:39:26.320 really do tricks with his voice. He didn't. He didn't 0:39:26.360 --> 0:39:28.239 do lots of trills and lots of this, that and 0:39:28.280 --> 0:39:30.319 the other, which a lot of people do associate with 0:39:30.719 --> 0:39:33.120 soul and R and B and everything. He didn't do that. 0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:35.280 He was for me, he was like a folk singer. 0:39:35.960 --> 0:39:38.239 Just theres a lot of soul in it, a lot 0:39:38.280 --> 0:39:42.520 of soul, and so I think somebody like him. And 0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:45.400 even though Luther could obviously do anything of his voice, 0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:47.719 and I remember seeing him live and walking out of 0:39:47.719 --> 0:39:49.319 the room and just sort of going, well, just forget 0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:52.200 it then, because that's that's that's it. There it is. 0:39:52.680 --> 0:39:55.319 Yeah, see, and in your personal time you tried to 0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:55.919 do a who. 0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:00.960 To be honest, that no, it's the answer. I very 0:40:01.000 --> 0:40:03.640 often still sing to this day. I will always sing 0:40:03.680 --> 0:40:05.440 never too much to my wife if we're ever in 0:40:05.480 --> 0:40:08.160 the car, that comes on or what have you, because 0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:10.239 that's one of our songs and I always sort of 0:40:10.280 --> 0:40:12.879 sing along with it. But he was one of those 0:40:13.080 --> 0:40:16.759 I don't care what anybody says about anybody else. He 0:40:16.800 --> 0:40:19.600 was one of those singers that it didn't matter what 0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:22.080 where he was in the whole range of the human voice, 0:40:22.600 --> 0:40:25.359 it sounded good everywhere. He could do anything, that guy. 0:40:25.480 --> 0:40:26.879 You know, so I. 0:40:26.840 --> 0:40:31.760 Got to know Luther's longtime manager, Sheep Gordon. I didn't 0:40:31.840 --> 0:40:39.040 realize how big Luther was in the UK. Yeah, to 0:40:39.080 --> 0:40:41.880 the point where I didn't realize that he could sell 0:40:41.920 --> 0:40:43.720 out like Wembley Arena. 0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:47.400 Wembley was the gig back in the day. Wembley was 0:40:47.400 --> 0:40:50.560 the gig in London. To go to Wembley Arena, Luthor, 0:40:50.640 --> 0:40:52.839 I think, did I think multiple nights there? 0:40:52.840 --> 0:40:55.319 I think, yeah, he did, like eight or nine nights there, 0:40:55.360 --> 0:40:58.759 and yeah, he was telling me that basically Luther had 0:40:58.800 --> 0:41:02.440 a more devoted and diverse fan. 0:41:02.320 --> 0:41:05.440 Base for sure, for sure over there then he. 0:41:05.800 --> 0:41:07.600 You know here, I mean here, yes, he could still 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.120 you know, sell out Massive Square Garden all those things 0:41:10.160 --> 0:41:12.040 like maybe one, two, three nights in a row. But 0:41:12.680 --> 0:41:15.360 you know, he it took him a long time to 0:41:15.480 --> 0:41:19.160 sort of cross over to a pop market, you know, 0:41:19.239 --> 0:41:21.279 like here and now or do you give me the 0:41:21.280 --> 0:41:23.520 reason like there was occasional songs that made the top ten. 0:41:23.600 --> 0:41:26.680 But yeah, yeah, I didn't realize until like I finally 0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:30.960 watched like Live and Wimbley and realized that, Oh I 0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:32.360 didn't realize that Luther. 0:41:33.440 --> 0:41:37.719 It was huge and also he I think he and 0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:39.840 and a lot of other artists around him. But I 0:41:39.840 --> 0:41:42.759 mean he for me motally is the pinnacles, no doubt really. 0:41:42.800 --> 0:41:45.040 But I mean James Ingram was really big in the 0:41:45.160 --> 0:41:48.280 UK as well, Jeffrey Osborne, A lot of those singers 0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:51.400 around that time that that, you know, I think a 0:41:51.440 --> 0:41:55.960 lot probably a lot of ballads were bigger as well, 0:41:56.120 --> 0:41:57.440 if you know what I mean. I think that was 0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:00.839 what's probably crossed them over to some degree as well. 0:42:01.040 --> 0:42:04.160 You know, But we used to go we would go, 0:42:04.320 --> 0:42:06.600 I say, we're a group of friends, some of which 0:42:06.640 --> 0:42:10.040 most of which were in the second band I was in. 0:42:12.160 --> 0:42:15.319 We would go to a little night when we'd go 0:42:15.360 --> 0:42:17.680 to different clubs around us actually in different towns and 0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:21.520 into Manchester and stuff. But in our little town of Newton, 0:42:21.600 --> 0:42:25.399 Leuillow's we have a little cricket club and it's been 0:42:25.400 --> 0:42:28.480 there forever and they used to have Monday nights and 0:42:28.520 --> 0:42:31.480 Friday nights and the Monday nights were under eighteen and 0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:34.120 the Friday were over eighteen, so there was alcohol and 0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:36.200 all the rest of it. But they also used to 0:42:36.200 --> 0:42:38.759 have occasionally on a Friday night, they had a guy 0:42:38.800 --> 0:42:40.719 called keV Edwards who was a DJ in the town 0:42:40.760 --> 0:42:43.280 I'm from, and he would only he would only play 0:42:43.600 --> 0:42:47.320 records that I'm not saying all of them were imported, 0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:50.640 but he always used to have records before anybody else, 0:42:51.200 --> 0:42:53.080 so he would play and we all used to go 0:42:53.120 --> 0:42:55.880 and we dress up. We wore jackets at times. This 0:42:56.000 --> 0:42:58.640 is in the this is in the sort of eighty 0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:02.160 five eighty six, right, we would go and wear jackets 0:43:02.160 --> 0:43:04.839 and ties. Well I'm saying, yeah, eighty five eighty six 0:43:04.880 --> 0:43:07.880 for sure, cheap ones. You know, we've just bought these 0:43:07.920 --> 0:43:09.360 jackets the ties with god knows where, do you know 0:43:09.400 --> 0:43:11.200 what I mean. But we'd all go and we're dancing 0:43:11.320 --> 0:43:15.160 lines and all the girls, especially you, dance moves and 0:43:15.239 --> 0:43:18.520 different routines, and a certain song would come on and 0:43:18.560 --> 0:43:20.799 for instance, let's say, I'm not sure when Never too 0:43:20.920 --> 0:43:23.000 Much came out exactly, but let's say that that song 0:43:23.040 --> 0:43:25.520 came on. Some of the girls had actually even have 0:43:25.600 --> 0:43:26.440 a routine for it. 0:43:28.040 --> 0:43:29.600 Oh really, so it was choreographed. 0:43:29.920 --> 0:43:32.279 And that's not just my little town where I'm from. 0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:34.719 That is especially that was a very big thing in 0:43:34.760 --> 0:43:37.200 the north of England, but also in the South if 0:43:37.239 --> 0:43:41.839 you speak to people about I mean not just lead 0:43:41.880 --> 0:43:43.640 of Vantos obviously, because I like I say, he was 0:43:43.640 --> 0:43:45.960 probably the biggest one to cross over in so many 0:43:46.000 --> 0:43:48.520 different ways. I think a lot of that music that 0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:51.440 was around the cane from America, Black American soul music 0:43:51.960 --> 0:43:55.919 was a massive part of our getting down and having 0:43:55.920 --> 0:43:57.719 a good night and having a good you know, we 0:43:58.000 --> 0:44:01.200 wouldn't even drink alcohol. We'd just go out and drink 0:44:01.480 --> 0:44:03.520 an orangey sort of coca and what have you, because 0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:07.080 we wanted to go and dance to music and that 0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:09.120 was a big thing for us. It really really was. 0:44:10.680 --> 0:44:13.560 But an idea now we just do it on TikTok. 0:44:15.320 --> 0:44:23.000 You know what I'm saying, Take us on the path 0:44:23.080 --> 0:44:27.880 that leads you to actually pursuing a solo career and 0:44:29.160 --> 0:44:31.239 meeting with Stark It. 0:44:32.840 --> 0:44:36.040 Well, we were the second Memos in FBI. We weren't 0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:38.360 really making waves exactly, but we were getting back to 0:44:38.360 --> 0:44:39.880 gigs and we were earning a bit of money. And 0:44:39.880 --> 0:44:41.719 we were this, that and the other. We'd had one 0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:43.759 or two record labels coming have a look at us, 0:44:43.760 --> 0:44:46.160 but they were a bit you know, we were too 0:44:46.520 --> 0:44:49.280 naive really and we didn't really have it together really. 0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:52.160 But anyway, one of the guys who came up to 0:44:52.200 --> 0:44:54.719 see us actually saw us in what we used to 0:44:54.719 --> 0:44:57.160 call a battle of the bands, where you would you 0:44:57.200 --> 0:45:00.239 would have you know, over over maybe a couple of 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:02.320 nights or even a couple of months, on different nights, 0:45:02.840 --> 0:45:05.480 banks would come together from an area and we'd all 0:45:05.480 --> 0:45:07.920 be competing for a prize basically, but also it was 0:45:07.960 --> 0:45:10.800 like little audiences you can get together and it's a 0:45:10.880 --> 0:45:14.359 judge as in one of those, and he requested that 0:45:14.400 --> 0:45:16.719 he really would like to see us against In other words, 0:45:16.760 --> 0:45:19.719 we did a showcase for him with a couple of 0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:23.200 other bands, and it sort of turns out that we 0:45:23.360 --> 0:45:25.600 kind of did that really because he liked my voice, 0:45:25.760 --> 0:45:28.560 heard something in my voice that he thought that there 0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:30.520 was some potential in it and he could do something 0:45:30.520 --> 0:45:34.600 with it. So he asked me to come down to London, 0:45:34.680 --> 0:45:36.799 and I did with the two guys who were kind 0:45:36.800 --> 0:45:40.959 of managing us at that point, and I didn't really 0:45:41.000 --> 0:45:43.719 exactly grasp who he was or what he was, but 0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:46.800 he had red leather pants and he had a Jaguar. 0:45:47.719 --> 0:45:50.959 That was enough for me. That was enough red leather 0:45:50.960 --> 0:45:56.360 pants and a Jaguar, I mean, come on, Yeah. So 0:45:56.840 --> 0:46:00.520 I went down to London to meet him and he 0:46:00.640 --> 0:46:03.160 kind of explained that, look, he wasn't interested in signing 0:46:03.280 --> 0:46:05.040 the band. He didn't really want to work with bands. 0:46:05.120 --> 0:46:07.480 He wanted to work with vocalists because he was part 0:46:07.520 --> 0:46:10.880 of this trio that were and they weren't really famous 0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:12.600 at that point. They hadn't really had any really big 0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:15.520 hits at that point. They were just on the cusp 0:46:15.560 --> 0:46:16.960 of it. They were right on the edge of it. 0:46:17.000 --> 0:46:19.600 But I didn't know that, but I kind of thought, well, 0:46:19.760 --> 0:46:21.879 I signed a little deal with their production company after 0:46:21.880 --> 0:46:24.520 about six months of chatting a couple of times about it, 0:46:24.800 --> 0:46:26.879 because I didn't really want to leave my friends, which 0:46:26.920 --> 0:46:28.759 they were they were, you know, my closest friends, and 0:46:28.800 --> 0:46:30.719 arrested it. But in the end, I thought, look, I 0:46:30.800 --> 0:46:33.520 drive the vand I write the songs. Sometimes I have 0:46:33.520 --> 0:46:35.839 to get people out of bed, so I'm just going 0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:37.399 to give this a try. And I did. 0:46:38.719 --> 0:46:41.399 And how hard was it breaking the news to them? Though? 0:46:42.239 --> 0:46:45.040 Well, that wasn't comfortable at all. I thought one or 0:46:45.080 --> 0:46:47.759 two of us were going to come to actual you know, 0:46:48.040 --> 0:46:51.480 fists and what everybody didn't. They didn't and it was all, 0:46:51.800 --> 0:46:55.359 you know, but it wasn't great, I'm honest. And at 0:46:55.400 --> 0:46:57.000 one point we were just going to try and keep 0:46:57.000 --> 0:46:58.680 the band together and I was going to pursue this 0:46:58.760 --> 0:47:01.120 and see what happened and see if we could marry 0:47:01.120 --> 0:47:03.880 the two together or get something going with a single 0:47:04.000 --> 0:47:07.720 or two and then see what we could do. But anyway, 0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:09.840 I signed the deal with them after after a little while, 0:47:10.120 --> 0:47:14.960 and then and then amazingly I had a number one 0:47:15.000 --> 0:47:24.600 record with an artist called Princess number one, so. 0:47:24.560 --> 0:47:30.200 You know that too, yeah, starters adding wait see some 0:47:30.239 --> 0:47:30.920 of the UK. 0:47:31.480 --> 0:47:34.760 Yeah yeah, yeah, dog Season Brooklyn. 0:47:38.200 --> 0:47:41.400 And number one Damn I did that. 0:47:42.480 --> 0:47:44.600 So I was kind of around. They had their own 0:47:44.640 --> 0:47:48.520 studio and I was kind of around in the process 0:47:48.560 --> 0:47:50.400 of them. I'm not saying I was on the sessions. 0:47:50.400 --> 0:47:52.680 I wasn't, but I was kind of around a little bit. 0:47:53.160 --> 0:47:56.800 And so they had this number one record and everyone 0:47:56.880 --> 0:47:58.960 in the business in the UK went, what is that? 0:47:59.000 --> 0:48:01.439 Who is that? What's who was? Who she was? Who 0:48:01.440 --> 0:48:04.480 produced it? We wrote it What's going on? Because it 0:48:04.480 --> 0:48:07.560 was quite it was a big record, it was a 0:48:07.640 --> 0:48:09.839 number one record, but I mean it was also quite 0:48:09.840 --> 0:48:11.400 a sort of an ear turn. It was like, what 0:48:11.600 --> 0:48:11.880 is that? 0:48:12.440 --> 0:48:13.040 Because it was? 0:48:13.640 --> 0:48:16.319 It was? It was it. It had like a toe 0:48:16.320 --> 0:48:18.640 in a lot of different places, if you know what 0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:21.759 I mean, a finger in lots of pies. I don't know. 0:48:21.880 --> 0:48:23.880 It wasn't I'm not saying it wasn't R and B, 0:48:24.040 --> 0:48:26.560 but it sort of wasn't. And it was very British sounding, 0:48:26.600 --> 0:48:28.880 but it also sounded kind of like she was a 0:48:28.880 --> 0:48:30.640 great singer. Obviously is a great thing, you know, but 0:48:30.680 --> 0:48:32.920 I'm saying it it could have been. It was a 0:48:32.920 --> 0:48:34.960 lot of things, you know. Anyway, it was it was 0:48:35.160 --> 0:48:35.600 to me, it. 0:48:35.560 --> 0:48:38.120 Was like a less song. It wasn't a ballot, but 0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:40.719 it also wasn't a jam. But I always heard it 0:48:40.760 --> 0:48:45.880 in clubs and even even the chord structures and stuff like. 0:48:45.880 --> 0:48:49.399 It was very dreamy sounding and very very unique song. 0:48:49.560 --> 0:48:49.839 I love. 0:48:50.960 --> 0:48:54.040 I think it's a cool record. I think so anyway, 0:48:54.120 --> 0:48:57.880 So and at the time they're also working they just 0:48:57.920 --> 0:49:02.040 started working around that time on Dead or Alive, so 0:49:02.080 --> 0:49:04.200 that you know, you spin me around record that whole 0:49:04.239 --> 0:49:07.880 album and everything right and the record industry I think, 0:49:07.920 --> 0:49:10.160 I mean, I'm going back. I'm kind of putting the thoughts. 0:49:10.280 --> 0:49:11.839 I'm not saying I had the thoughts at the time. 0:49:11.880 --> 0:49:14.200 I'm just remembering what was going on and what I 0:49:14.280 --> 0:49:17.879 must have been thinking. But they they were looking at meeting, 0:49:17.920 --> 0:49:20.080 we'll sign this kid, and I think they'd signed somebody 0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:22.000 else as well, but we're not going to get to 0:49:22.040 --> 0:49:23.480 work on them because all of a sudden we're like 0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:25.840 beginning to be a little bit hot as producer writers, 0:49:25.880 --> 0:49:28.200 and people are asking for us to do things. So 0:49:28.239 --> 0:49:30.239 we can't start doing our own projects because people are 0:49:30.239 --> 0:49:32.360 throwing money out us and we need to pay the bills. 0:49:32.800 --> 0:49:35.880 So in a nutshell, people kind of sat me down. 0:49:37.000 --> 0:49:39.799 I said, look, we're gonna, you know, we are going 0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:41.200 to make a record, but we've got to get on 0:49:41.280 --> 0:49:42.600 with this thing right now. Do you want to come 0:49:42.600 --> 0:49:45.799 and live in London and you become like an assistant, 0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:48.040 hang out of the studios, get to see how we 0:49:48.080 --> 0:49:50.719 do things. Because I was greenish Glass, I was pretty nervous. 0:49:50.960 --> 0:49:52.959 I don't have to live like twice in my life 0:49:52.960 --> 0:49:55.799 before then anyway, you know, And so I got to 0:49:55.880 --> 0:49:57.960 live and I ended up living it. It's flat for 0:49:58.000 --> 0:49:59.640 the first weeks of it and everything, and I just 0:49:59.719 --> 0:50:01.920 used to go into the so I would he'd be 0:50:02.000 --> 0:50:04.120 driving his Porsche, because he had a Porsche as well 0:50:04.120 --> 0:50:06.200 at this point, so he must have been doing something right. 0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:09.080 He'd be driving this Porsch and he'd be on his 0:50:09.200 --> 0:50:13.040 massive eighties phone having his conversations, and I'm sat next 0:50:13.040 --> 0:50:14.960 to him, his nineteen year old kid, going, I have 0:50:15.080 --> 0:50:17.200 no idea about the languages using because it was all 0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:19.920 about record deals and A and R people, which I 0:50:19.920 --> 0:50:21.400 didn't even know what an A and R man was 0:50:21.440 --> 0:50:23.680 at that point. All this different stuff and I'm just 0:50:23.680 --> 0:50:26.440 trying to soak it up and learn, you know. So 0:50:26.520 --> 0:50:28.640 I ended up being at their building i'd say for 0:50:29.000 --> 0:50:33.160 nine months, maybe even a year, and I made tea, coffee, 0:50:33.320 --> 0:50:35.200 got the sandwiches like all the other kids did in 0:50:35.239 --> 0:50:37.200 the building, you know, all the tapeops as it used 0:50:37.239 --> 0:50:40.280 to be. And then Banana Arma came in the building 0:50:40.320 --> 0:50:42.000 and they made some great records for them, and it 0:50:42.080 --> 0:50:43.560 just kept going. So they made all this and then 0:50:43.600 --> 0:50:46.880 there was this sister's duo called melon Kin who they 0:50:46.880 --> 0:50:48.359 had a massive success with as well. 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:51.839 Yeah, first the Weekend, Yeah, there you go. He did 0:50:51.880 --> 0:50:52.200 that too. 0:50:52.520 --> 0:50:53.480 Yeah yeah, they did that. 0:50:56.120 --> 0:50:57.799 Live, but it still like is that team and it's 0:50:57.840 --> 0:50:58.320 still alive? 0:50:59.360 --> 0:51:02.640 Yeah the three yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. 0:51:02.640 --> 0:51:04.480 They don't work together anymore, but they're all still going 0:51:04.520 --> 0:51:05.440 yeah yeah yeah. 0:51:05.320 --> 0:51:06.840 Okay yeah. 0:51:06.960 --> 0:51:09.440 Dude, I have no clue that this was coming from London, 0:51:09.719 --> 0:51:14.759 Like in my head, like I thought this was all 0:51:14.880 --> 0:51:16.399 like New York stuff, like. 0:51:16.320 --> 0:51:18.799 Well, they would be they would be really happy to 0:51:18.840 --> 0:51:21.799 hear that, to be honest, because I think I think 0:51:21.880 --> 0:51:24.040 the thing with those guys what used to frustrate me 0:51:24.080 --> 0:51:27.920 at times later on this is is that they they 0:51:27.960 --> 0:51:30.520 got pigeonholed, but they almost did it themselves. They kind 0:51:30.520 --> 0:51:32.319 of created a sound and went that's what we do 0:51:33.000 --> 0:51:37.080 and that's it, right, And I think artists fitted into 0:51:37.120 --> 0:51:39.960 that sound more than then, but in the early beginnings 0:51:40.000 --> 0:51:41.600 of it, I don't think they did. If you listen 0:51:41.680 --> 0:51:43.560 to that same my Number one record, you listen to 0:51:43.560 --> 0:51:46.000 Spin Me Around, you listen to Melon Kin, they have 0:51:46.239 --> 0:51:49.840 very three, very different sounding records, different artists, different everything, 0:51:50.480 --> 0:51:53.239 and I think they wanted to emulate like a motown, 0:51:54.040 --> 0:51:56.719 But unfortunately for me, I think they didn't then go 0:51:56.760 --> 0:51:59.720 out and try and find Diana Ross, Marvin Gay, Stevie Wonder. 0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:02.239 They thought they were good enough to get anyone to 0:52:02.239 --> 0:52:05.160 sing their songs and still have that thing, you know 0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:05.600 what I mean? 0:52:06.600 --> 0:52:09.439 So at what point are they ready to put you in? 0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:11.200 Like are you ready? 0:52:11.680 --> 0:52:13.480 One of the things that one of the issues was, 0:52:14.880 --> 0:52:16.759 well this is well, I'll just explain this for a second, 0:52:16.800 --> 0:52:19.759 because right, so they'd signed me to their production deal, right, 0:52:20.000 --> 0:52:24.080 their little production company, which sort of went on on 0:52:24.200 --> 0:52:25.960 the back burner. It kind of got shoved to the 0:52:26.000 --> 0:52:29.920 side because they were producing major hit records for artists 0:52:29.920 --> 0:52:32.320 and the you know, with big record deals, you know 0:52:32.360 --> 0:52:36.239 what I mean. So Pete Waterman said, right, I need 0:52:36.280 --> 0:52:40.560 to sign Rick to a major record label because this 0:52:40.680 --> 0:52:42.680 is the way this is going to work. Really them 0:52:42.680 --> 0:52:46.239 doing it themselves. They did do eventually, but I think 0:52:46.239 --> 0:52:47.799 they just thought, we just need to get him signed 0:52:47.840 --> 0:52:50.200 to a major record label and give it a really 0:52:50.200 --> 0:52:52.080 big push and all the rest of it. I think 0:52:52.120 --> 0:52:54.319 they were seeing what was happening with some of those 0:52:54.360 --> 0:52:57.760 records and thinking, right now, at the end of the eighties, 0:52:57.760 --> 0:52:59.360 you need to be with a major label. That's the 0:52:59.400 --> 0:53:02.200 way to do that, you know what I mean. So 0:53:02.200 --> 0:53:04.120 so we went to see a guy called Peter Robinson 0:53:04.160 --> 0:53:05.800 who was the head of A and R at RCA 0:53:05.800 --> 0:53:09.000 in the UK. Lovely guy. I've just just met him 0:53:09.000 --> 0:53:13.680 again recently a few times, actually, lovely guy. And he said, well, 0:53:13.719 --> 0:53:16.279 this is all great to Pete Waterman, but I need 0:53:16.320 --> 0:53:18.160 to hear Rick sing in front of me. I need 0:53:18.200 --> 0:53:21.240 to see him sing songs here, sing these just sing 0:53:21.239 --> 0:53:23.120 some songs from me. I can't sign the guy just 0:53:23.120 --> 0:53:25.520 because you know he's going to be your next artist 0:53:25.560 --> 0:53:27.000 and you say he's great and all the rest of it. 0:53:27.160 --> 0:53:30.800 What I wow, exactly, that doesn't happen now. 0:53:31.000 --> 0:53:34.080 Yeah, well, so we're in the car, we're in the 0:53:34.120 --> 0:53:36.319 Porsche on the way back, and he's on the phone, right, 0:53:36.880 --> 0:53:39.880 and he said to Matt and Mike, which is stocking 0:53:39.960 --> 0:53:42.440 aching and they are the two musicians in the threesome. Really, 0:53:42.520 --> 0:53:45.399 Pete's more an R and ideas and all that said, right, 0:53:45.560 --> 0:53:47.600 you need to do like a little showcase with Rick 0:53:47.640 --> 0:53:51.040 singing for Pete Robinson at RCA. And they both went, Nope, 0:53:51.280 --> 0:53:54.520 that's not what we do. We're making records. So Pete said, right, 0:53:55.120 --> 0:53:56.960 you know those demos you've got rich and I've done 0:53:57.000 --> 0:53:59.319 these little demos in a four track studio back in 0:53:59.320 --> 0:54:03.600 the hometown where from I went up north, went home, 0:54:04.760 --> 0:54:07.759 got the vocals taken off, brought them down on a cassette, 0:54:08.800 --> 0:54:12.720 played the cassette for Pete Waterman, Peter Robinson from RTA, 0:54:13.160 --> 0:54:14.920 a couple of other people, one of my kind of 0:54:14.960 --> 0:54:17.719 managers at the time, and I sang on an s 0:54:17.840 --> 0:54:20.520 M fifty eight microphone, which to everybody listening, he doesn't 0:54:20.520 --> 0:54:23.319 know is the bog standard. That's what you're using it? Yeah, yeah, 0:54:23.320 --> 0:54:26.239 there you go, no reverb. And it just came out 0:54:26.239 --> 0:54:28.480 of the shitty speaker that I'd found in the basement 0:54:28.480 --> 0:54:30.440 because I was one of the tapops making tea and 0:54:30.440 --> 0:54:33.120 getting the biscuits right. So how you where your here was? 0:54:33.760 --> 0:54:36.200 And I sang in the reception to four of my 0:54:36.360 --> 0:54:39.560 songs that I'd done right. I played everything, demo and everything. 0:54:40.120 --> 0:54:43.719 So as soon as I've finished the songs, Peter Robinson 0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:49.080 from RCA says, who wrote these songs? And Pete Waterman 0:54:49.239 --> 0:54:51.799 at this point has got no intention of me ever 0:54:51.840 --> 0:54:56.560 writing a song, said, oh, he's a great songwriter as well, 0:54:56.920 --> 0:54:59.520 so because obviously he knew within a second that that 0:54:59.520 --> 0:55:01.160 that was the that was his way that he was 0:55:01.200 --> 0:55:03.879 going to get a major deal the artist that they 0:55:04.239 --> 0:55:07.799 signed and owned and you know whatever. So I ended up. 0:55:08.520 --> 0:55:11.560 I ended up from that point getting like I got 0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:13.360 four songs on the first album. I didn't get a 0:55:13.400 --> 0:55:15.360 single on the first album, but I got four songs, 0:55:16.040 --> 0:55:18.480 and I got like a few more on the next 0:55:18.480 --> 0:55:20.319 record and stuff like that. But I was sort of 0:55:20.440 --> 0:55:23.560 all of a sudden, I was getting to do my demos. 0:55:23.719 --> 0:55:25.640 I think it already was, actually, but I was getting 0:55:25.640 --> 0:55:28.280 to do like, really was getting to do my demos 0:55:28.880 --> 0:55:32.680 on like an SSL board with an engineer who last 0:55:32.680 --> 0:55:34.600 week had been making a number one record with Dead 0:55:34.680 --> 0:55:37.000 or Alive or whatever. And I'm doing my demos like 0:55:37.040 --> 0:55:40.120 that because that's just the way it was, you know. 0:55:40.239 --> 0:55:41.719 And I used to do them at the weekend or 0:55:41.760 --> 0:55:45.680 through the night. And so I can't remember what we 0:55:45.719 --> 0:55:47.400 were talking about to girls because I was getting excited 0:55:47.440 --> 0:55:49.120 again remembering all that. But anyway, it was like a 0:55:49.200 --> 0:55:51.399 mad It was a mad one of those moments where 0:55:51.400 --> 0:55:53.680 it's like I'm just going to sing their songs and 0:55:53.719 --> 0:55:57.240 that's cool. We'll just see where it goes to. Okay, 0:55:57.400 --> 0:56:00.360 now my songs are involved, and they were naive songs. 0:56:00.360 --> 0:56:03.839 Don't get me wrong. They really really were. But you know, yeah, 0:56:03.880 --> 0:56:05.640 I don't know. I was really lucky, I think, to 0:56:05.680 --> 0:56:09.560 be at the stockaching Waterman moment where it exploded and 0:56:09.560 --> 0:56:12.239 they became this huge thing. And even though it hung 0:56:12.360 --> 0:56:15.120 around for almost a year making tea and getting the 0:56:15.160 --> 0:56:17.200 sandwiches and tidying up the room, you know, me doing 0:56:17.200 --> 0:56:20.440 all that stuff, I also got to do a lot 0:56:20.480 --> 0:56:21.919 of stuff. Like I used to go to the pub 0:56:22.040 --> 0:56:24.759 every night with the guys and I was allowed to 0:56:24.800 --> 0:56:27.520 sit on their table while they talked about, you know, 0:56:27.560 --> 0:56:29.640 how to produce this, and they talk about, well have 0:56:29.719 --> 0:56:31.640 you heard this new record that kicked on the way 0:56:31.640 --> 0:56:34.160 that that was this or this baseline is amazing or 0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:36.759 what I mean. And it was it was like a 0:56:37.880 --> 0:56:40.080 like doing an internship. But I just didn't realize I 0:56:40.120 --> 0:56:40.600 was doing it. 0:56:40.640 --> 0:56:44.480 You know, were you around for like one of the 0:56:44.640 --> 0:56:47.880 songwriting sessions when they're putting songs together or is it 0:56:47.920 --> 0:56:49.360 always just here sing this? 0:56:50.560 --> 0:56:53.000 I mean no, I mean they're never going to give 0:56:53.000 --> 0:56:54.680 you up. For instance, the first, you know, my first 0:56:54.719 --> 0:56:58.160 song and biggest one. Obviously they'd hired a guy called 0:56:58.160 --> 0:57:00.960 Ian kern Or. He was a he wasn't a programmer, 0:57:00.960 --> 0:57:03.719 but he became a programmer for them, and I mean 0:57:03.960 --> 0:57:06.720 programming the loose terms of He was an amazing keyboard 0:57:06.719 --> 0:57:08.920 player and he you know, put tracks together, following stuff 0:57:08.920 --> 0:57:12.120 and ideas and stuff. So Mike Stock came down to 0:57:12.200 --> 0:57:15.040 his room and I was literally making the coffee. I 0:57:15.120 --> 0:57:17.360 remember it. I had just made a fresh pot of coffee. 0:57:17.600 --> 0:57:20.760 Mike Stock comes down. They just put a fair like computer. 0:57:20.800 --> 0:57:22.280 I don't know whether you guys ever worked with a 0:57:22.360 --> 0:57:24.480 fairlight back in the day, yes, And I was like 0:57:24.600 --> 0:57:26.960 completely blown away by this. I was like, what what 0:57:27.040 --> 0:57:29.800 world are we living in? You know? And so Ian 0:57:29.880 --> 0:57:32.439 set to work, and Mike Stott came down. He put 0:57:32.480 --> 0:57:34.880 the chords in and he kind of sang in the melody, 0:57:35.080 --> 0:57:38.320 the rough melody, you know, and Ian was making some 0:57:38.440 --> 0:57:40.680 notes and all the rest of it. So I just 0:57:40.800 --> 0:57:43.120 kept seeing going the coffee and biscuits and sandwiches or 0:57:43.160 --> 0:57:46.360 whatever he wanted. And I sat there, having just heard 0:57:46.520 --> 0:57:49.400 my first single, and then kind of watched it get 0:57:49.400 --> 0:57:52.240 put together. And then obviously we went upstairs and took 0:57:52.240 --> 0:57:53.840 it into the big room and all the rest of it, 0:57:53.880 --> 0:57:56.360 and you know, and that song went through so many 0:57:56.360 --> 0:57:59.960 transitions because the bassline and the drums were very, very 0:58:00.000 --> 0:58:02.400 different than when they began, and I've got to give 0:58:02.400 --> 0:58:04.480 credit to the Stock and Wantant guys for that, but 0:58:04.520 --> 0:58:06.560 I've got to give more credit to Colonel Abrahams, to 0:58:06.600 --> 0:58:12.680 be honest, because they pinched the bassline from tracks exactly. 0:58:13.040 --> 0:58:15.520 And I think I was kind of one of the 0:58:15.720 --> 0:58:18.520 only artists who was actually part of their setup, if 0:58:18.560 --> 0:58:20.320 you know what I mean. A lot of the other 0:58:20.400 --> 0:58:22.560 artists came in and yeend some of them actually wrote 0:58:22.600 --> 0:58:25.120 with Stock Andky Mortmon or just came into the vocals 0:58:25.200 --> 0:58:27.920 or whatever it was. But I'd literally been round to 0:58:27.960 --> 0:58:31.919 the you know, the greasy spoon cafe to get their 0:58:32.200 --> 0:58:34.600 lunches for the last six months, you know what I mean, 0:58:34.640 --> 0:58:36.120 and got the coffee and all the rest of it. 0:58:36.560 --> 0:58:39.000 And I even remember there was one session where a 0:58:39.000 --> 0:58:41.520 guy had come in to do a sax solo on 0:58:41.600 --> 0:58:43.959 a song. It was actually they were doing a cover 0:58:44.040 --> 0:58:47.840 of Ain't Proud to beg by the Temptations because people 0:58:47.880 --> 0:58:49.880 wanted me to sing some songs like that just to 0:58:49.920 --> 0:58:52.680 test my voice out and see whatever. So this guy 0:58:52.720 --> 0:58:54.479 came in to do a solo on it, and he said, 0:58:55.240 --> 0:58:57.080 he said, who's singing that? It's a great voice, that 0:58:57.200 --> 0:59:00.000 who's singing, and Matt Aikin, one of the producers, said, 0:59:00.160 --> 0:59:02.320 don't say too much because he's just walking in now 0:59:02.360 --> 0:59:07.960 with your coffee. It was like, it was so upside 0:59:08.000 --> 0:59:10.400 down that I'm making coffee for the guy who's doing 0:59:10.400 --> 0:59:13.120 the saxophone solo on my god dumb record. But it 0:59:13.200 --> 0:59:17.240 was also it was also pretty amazing because I kind 0:59:17.240 --> 0:59:18.760 of felt a bit more part of it, and I 0:59:18.800 --> 0:59:21.360 felt a bit more. I'm not saying that I earned 0:59:21.440 --> 0:59:24.680 the right to be there, but I think I at 0:59:24.760 --> 0:59:29.080 least I understood a bit more than perhaps sometimes when 0:59:29.760 --> 0:59:32.480 a young kid gets plucked from obscurity, just say right, 0:59:32.600 --> 0:59:34.720 sing this right, off you go. This is the suit 0:59:34.760 --> 0:59:36.120 you're gonna wear, Now, off you go. Do you know 0:59:36.160 --> 0:59:39.960 what I mean? I just felt like I kind of yeah. 0:59:39.600 --> 0:59:42.120 You know that that was Marvin's start too. You know, 0:59:42.200 --> 0:59:44.840 he started out at Motown running errands. 0:59:45.520 --> 0:59:47.320 I don't know, Wow, Yeah, he was. 0:59:47.360 --> 0:59:49.440 Like running erons first, and then like he was like 0:59:49.520 --> 0:59:52.960 house drummer, and then you know, once he started closing 0:59:53.000 --> 0:59:55.760 up to Anna Gordy, then she realized that he had 0:59:55.800 --> 0:59:59.960 a velvety voice and was sort of like, hey, you're 1:00:00.080 --> 1:00:04.480 know you're obviously doing the wrong jobs. You it's time 1:00:04.520 --> 1:00:05.400 that you start singing. 1:00:05.720 --> 1:00:07.560 I don't even imagine that. He's also one of the 1:00:07.560 --> 1:00:10.200 most beautiful looking men that's ever walked the earth. And 1:00:10.240 --> 1:00:12.320 it's like with that the way he looked in that voice, 1:00:12.440 --> 1:00:14.440 like I seen that before. 1:00:14.520 --> 1:00:18.120 You know, that's how he nabbed Anna Gordy to to 1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:21.000 get to the front of the line. So you know, 1:00:21.960 --> 1:00:24.200 and you're well to hear you tell the story. It's 1:00:24.240 --> 1:00:27.000 like you know, you you were just around you run 1:00:27.040 --> 1:00:29.640 an errand you're going to sing the song whatever. At 1:00:29.680 --> 1:00:36.120 what point does it hit you that, like, yo, this 1:00:36.320 --> 1:00:39.960 is making it because it's not like you're one, you know, 1:00:39.960 --> 1:00:43.040 and I know that this song is now going to 1:00:43.280 --> 1:00:48.800 live forever in in you know, past pop culture. But 1:00:48.840 --> 1:00:51.720 it's also over shaddling the fact that you also had 1:00:51.760 --> 1:00:55.240 like eight other you know, top ten hits as well. 1:00:55.680 --> 1:00:58.280 Yeah, but I also think that happens with artists sometimes. 1:00:58.280 --> 1:01:00.560 I mean, obviously you can look at greats and I 1:01:00.600 --> 1:01:03.240 don't know how many greats got, and a lot of 1:01:03.360 --> 1:01:05.880 artists and I'll throw myself in that I've got one 1:01:05.920 --> 1:01:08.040 that everyone would remember them from, and then when they 1:01:08.080 --> 1:01:10.320 go on Spotify or what I mean to go, oh, 1:01:10.480 --> 1:01:12.400 I can't remember that one as well, and oh did 1:01:12.400 --> 1:01:13.320 he do that? Didn't know that? 1:01:13.320 --> 1:01:13.680 You know what I mean. 1:01:13.720 --> 1:01:15.560 There's a bit of that going on. But so I 1:01:15.600 --> 1:01:17.640 don't feel any I'm not I don't, I don't know 1:01:17.680 --> 1:01:19.600 any hang ups about. I'm glad I've got that song 1:01:19.640 --> 1:01:23.480 because it sort of opens doors and windows for me 1:01:23.560 --> 1:01:25.440 all the time. So I'm okay with it, you know. 1:01:25.480 --> 1:01:28.320 But it's weird to hear that because most of the 1:01:28.360 --> 1:01:32.400 time I'll run into artists that hate their biggest you know, 1:01:32.960 --> 1:01:36.840 like Nirvana famously stopped playing Smells like teen Spirit the 1:01:36.920 --> 1:01:39.920 last year and a half day. Las Soul hates me 1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:43.480 myself and I I'm working with Mary J. Bligee right now, 1:01:43.680 --> 1:01:47.680 and Jesus h like, you know, the amount of number 1:01:47.680 --> 1:01:49.360 one songs he has were It's like, I don't do 1:01:49.400 --> 1:01:50.840 that no more. I don't do that, no more. I 1:01:50.880 --> 1:01:52.720 don't do that Like it's like good morning. 1:01:52.920 --> 1:01:55.000 I think I think a lot of it, though I 1:01:55.040 --> 1:01:57.600 don't know. We're jumping times frame now, but a lot 1:01:57.600 --> 1:01:59.400 of it goes to the fact that when I kind 1:01:59.400 --> 1:02:03.280 of quit, I was about twenty seven to twenty eight, 1:02:03.920 --> 1:02:06.400 and I've quit for a lot of reasons. I'd had enough. 1:02:06.800 --> 1:02:08.840 I knew the writing was on the wall. To sustain 1:02:08.880 --> 1:02:12.400 any kind of pop career. It's almost impossible, to be honest, 1:02:12.520 --> 1:02:14.240 as we say, there are some greats you've done it, 1:02:14.240 --> 1:02:16.840 but it's so difficult, you know, because it just is. 1:02:17.240 --> 1:02:20.680 And you've got to give everything, everything you've got, time wise, 1:02:20.680 --> 1:02:23.520 effort wise, everything, all your energy everything to it. And 1:02:23.760 --> 1:02:26.440 I was a bit sick of it, and I just 1:02:26.440 --> 1:02:28.560 didn't want to do it anymore. Blah blah, all those reasons. 1:02:28.600 --> 1:02:30.320 I was super lucky I got to do it for 1:02:30.400 --> 1:02:33.480 the time I did, so I didn't sing never going 1:02:33.480 --> 1:02:35.600 to give You Up altogether forever or anything else for 1:02:35.640 --> 1:02:38.520 about fifteen years. The only time I have or maybe more, actually, 1:02:38.600 --> 1:02:41.760 the only time I ever did it was at friend's weddings. 1:02:42.000 --> 1:02:44.400 That's the only time I ever did it right. And 1:02:44.440 --> 1:02:46.320 now I do it at friends kids weddings, which is 1:02:46.680 --> 1:02:49.120 which is even greater to be honest, that really that 1:02:49.240 --> 1:02:51.000 gets me right there that they want me to do that, 1:02:51.080 --> 1:02:53.480 So that's cool. But I didn't sing those songs. I 1:02:53.480 --> 1:02:54.960 didn't sing never going to give You Up, you know, 1:02:55.040 --> 1:02:58.439 night after night or dirt. And I've sort of lived 1:02:58.480 --> 1:03:03.439 a very simple, very comfortable. Thank Evans, and I do 1:03:03.920 --> 1:03:06.240 thank Evans and I'm grateful for that, but a very 1:03:06.440 --> 1:03:08.560 obscure life, if you know what I mean in terms 1:03:08.600 --> 1:03:11.640 of like, you know, I haven't been famous for all 1:03:11.640 --> 1:03:13.400 those years. In terms of that, I mean, I know 1:03:13.440 --> 1:03:15.880 there's been a bit of fame comeback because of Rick 1:03:16.000 --> 1:03:20.840 Rowland and you know whatever. And so I approached singing 1:03:21.000 --> 1:03:23.120 never going to give you up, completely differently I think 1:03:23.160 --> 1:03:26.040 than perhaps artists who've done it for thirty three years. 1:03:26.400 --> 1:03:29.640 I when I came back to it. He's sort of 1:03:29.640 --> 1:03:33.240 happen in two ways. A promoter who is massive in 1:03:33.240 --> 1:03:35.400 the UK and is involved in managing me as well. 1:03:36.000 --> 1:03:39.320 I bumped into him at a showcase in a tiny 1:03:39.320 --> 1:03:41.720 little pub in London because friends of mine had written 1:03:41.760 --> 1:03:44.520 the tracks and everything, and he said, look, why don't 1:03:44.520 --> 1:03:46.439 you sing? Why don't you? And I said, now I'm done, really, 1:03:46.760 --> 1:03:48.560 you know, well why don't you just go out and 1:03:48.560 --> 1:03:50.040 do it again? I said, well, you know, i'm't done 1:03:50.040 --> 1:03:52.680 it for years And he said, well what if I 1:03:53.200 --> 1:03:54.720 anyway he got in touch with it. What if I 1:03:54.760 --> 1:03:57.720 put a little tour together? You can sing anything you want. 1:03:57.880 --> 1:04:00.000 And just been in front of a feonder people, nothing big. 1:04:00.480 --> 1:04:02.080 You don't even have to sing your old songs if 1:04:02.080 --> 1:04:04.880 you don't want, just walk out there and sing and 1:04:04.920 --> 1:04:06.600 see if you want to do it again. I'm like, 1:04:06.720 --> 1:04:10.520 who is this guy? What you know? And it turns 1:04:10.560 --> 1:04:13.000 out this guy is an amazing guy and he promotes 1:04:13.120 --> 1:04:15.800 like things from like Coldplayer Dell right the way down 1:04:15.840 --> 1:04:19.000 to brand new bands right. He just loves it, lives it, 1:04:19.360 --> 1:04:22.160 breathes it. So I'm like, what a crazy offer that if? 1:04:22.160 --> 1:04:24.880 It's just unbelievable. And around the same time, I also 1:04:24.920 --> 1:04:27.000 had an offer to go to Japan, and I'd always 1:04:27.000 --> 1:04:29.200 turned down all the offers to sing all my old songs, 1:04:30.160 --> 1:04:32.080 and I just thought so anyway, So I did this 1:04:32.120 --> 1:04:35.880 little tour and I sang Frank Sinatra, Backer rap anything 1:04:35.920 --> 1:04:37.520 I wanted to that I remember as a kid, my 1:04:37.560 --> 1:04:39.800 mum and dad used to play and my dad had 1:04:39.840 --> 1:04:42.120 a really great voice actually, and he used to sing. 1:04:42.440 --> 1:04:44.440 He used to sing the wrong words, but he used 1:04:44.440 --> 1:04:46.440 to sing Franks and around the house all the time. 1:04:46.800 --> 1:04:48.640 So I went and did that with a little, you know, 1:04:48.800 --> 1:04:51.600 little brass section, a very small brass section. Three guys, 1:04:51.840 --> 1:04:54.800 two or three guys I think actually, and just you know, 1:04:54.920 --> 1:04:56.880 just a really stand up based all the rest of it, 1:04:57.640 --> 1:05:00.320 tiny little venues we played. Ronnie Scott still was to 1:05:00.320 --> 1:05:01.520 come and do it there because we were doing that 1:05:01.600 --> 1:05:03.880 kind of thing, went up and down the country, and 1:05:03.920 --> 1:05:07.560 I absolutely loved it, and something in my mind went 1:05:08.680 --> 1:05:10.560 like a light bulb just went Okay, so you can 1:05:10.560 --> 1:05:13.040 go out and sing. But it doesn't have to be 1:05:13.160 --> 1:05:15.960 your bo and end all, it's not every part of 1:05:15.960 --> 1:05:17.960 your life. You can do it when you want to 1:05:17.960 --> 1:05:21.440 do it. And I accepted this offer to go to Japan, 1:05:22.480 --> 1:05:24.840 mainly because our daughter, who was fifteen at the time, 1:05:25.000 --> 1:05:28.600 and my wife really wanted to go. So we went 1:05:28.640 --> 1:05:30.520 and we went on a really lovely trip and I 1:05:30.560 --> 1:05:32.840 sang those songs never Going to Give You Up Together Forever, 1:05:32.880 --> 1:05:35.640 and a bunch of others, and again the same light 1:05:35.640 --> 1:05:37.960 bulb went on of lif So you go out, you 1:05:38.040 --> 1:05:41.160 sing them, you walk off stage, you put a different 1:05:41.240 --> 1:05:45.680 jacket on, and you go out for dinner. And that's it, right. 1:05:45.720 --> 1:05:47.720 It's not like you go out there there's three hundred 1:05:47.760 --> 1:05:51.680 screaming fans, there's people taking a picture. You've got to 1:05:51.680 --> 1:05:54.040 do interviews all day the next day, and by the way, 1:05:54.080 --> 1:05:56.400 you'll be on a plane at four o'clock going to 1:05:56.480 --> 1:05:59.040 another territory to do it all again the next You 1:05:59.080 --> 1:06:01.800 know what I mean. It's you can pick and choose. 1:06:01.840 --> 1:06:04.680 You can have a life in music that isn't. I'm 1:06:04.680 --> 1:06:06.600 not saying I can ever attain the success they out 1:06:06.640 --> 1:06:09.120 in the ages about possibly do that, but I can 1:06:09.280 --> 1:06:10.920 enjoy it a lot more. And that's kind of what 1:06:10.960 --> 1:06:12.280 I do and what I've done ever since. 1:06:12.680 --> 1:06:16.160 Can I ask? Okay? So one I wanted to know 1:06:17.720 --> 1:06:20.280 what was the straw that broke the camel's back as 1:06:20.280 --> 1:06:25.400 far as you walking away? And how did you manage 1:06:25.440 --> 1:06:28.480 to make a living? If you remind me asking for 1:06:28.520 --> 1:06:29.640 those fifteen years? 1:06:29.880 --> 1:06:33.080 Yeah? Okay, first one. Then I think a lot of 1:06:33.080 --> 1:06:36.720 things were just coming together. I'd had some We had 1:06:36.720 --> 1:06:39.680 some really we like everybody has got a story about 1:06:39.880 --> 1:06:43.120 a record they made that never did anything or just 1:06:43.160 --> 1:06:46.160 didn't see the light of day, didn't get released, whatever. 1:06:46.560 --> 1:06:48.960 So I had a couple of things like that. We 1:06:49.040 --> 1:06:52.280 did a record, an album away from Stuff thinking, my 1:06:52.320 --> 1:06:55.120 first one, and the first single from it it was 1:06:55.120 --> 1:06:57.720 called Try for Help, and I was so lucky with 1:06:57.760 --> 1:06:59.240 that record, but I also knew, well, I might not 1:06:59.320 --> 1:07:01.680 get to make many more. I thought I'd love to 1:07:01.680 --> 1:07:04.560 get a couple of my favorite drummers on it. So 1:07:04.600 --> 1:07:07.720 we did some stuff with Jeff Picaell came and played drums. 1:07:07.760 --> 1:07:09.640 We didn't actually use those sessions in the end because 1:07:09.640 --> 1:07:12.760 it turned into something else. Vinni Calliuti came and played 1:07:12.840 --> 1:07:16.640 drums on that song. Yeah, yeah, and I'm sat there 1:07:16.680 --> 1:07:19.120 in the room going, I don't know what's going on. 1:07:19.160 --> 1:07:20.680 And I got to play their drum kits as well. 1:07:20.720 --> 1:07:22.880 By the way, and obviously we had some great musicians. 1:07:22.920 --> 1:07:26.360 Andre Crouch. It is choir that sang that sang on 1:07:26.400 --> 1:07:29.280 the record, and obviously I'm sure to this day, but 1:07:30.080 --> 1:07:32.680 I think around any of that time through the nineties 1:07:32.680 --> 1:07:36.280 and onwards, if you wanted a choir, there were a 1:07:36.280 --> 1:07:38.360 couple of choirs to ask, and he was probably at 1:07:38.400 --> 1:07:40.880 the top of it, and so some of those experiences 1:07:40.880 --> 1:07:43.680 were amazing. But anyway, so that record came out, we 1:07:43.760 --> 1:07:45.360 had the top ten in America with that song, and 1:07:45.400 --> 1:07:47.560 the top ten in the UK and lots of different countries. 1:07:47.600 --> 1:07:50.440 So I thought, this is crazy. I've left stocking in waterman, 1:07:50.840 --> 1:07:53.800 I've made a record with Vinnie Calliouti on it and 1:07:54.600 --> 1:07:57.000 a choir, and yet we still had a top ten 1:07:57.240 --> 1:07:58.720 and I had long hair as well. I just grew 1:07:58.760 --> 1:08:01.160 my hair for a bit of it, laughing, and I thought, 1:08:01.240 --> 1:08:03.480 that's it. We've turned that page. I can go and 1:08:03.480 --> 1:08:07.560 make records. Cut a long story short. Up to that point, 1:08:07.640 --> 1:08:09.840 I think I had like and this sounds like sour grapes, 1:08:09.840 --> 1:08:11.880 it's not. I was just shocked by it. I just 1:08:11.880 --> 1:08:14.760 didn't understand what was going on. The next couple of 1:08:14.800 --> 1:08:17.160 singles released didn't really do anything. We didn't get them 1:08:17.160 --> 1:08:20.040 anywhere near the charts, and the weird thing was they 1:08:20.080 --> 1:08:23.800 were more like pop songs than the first one. And 1:08:23.840 --> 1:08:27.080 it transpires that basically the head of RCA in the 1:08:27.200 --> 1:08:31.760 UK was moved out, a new person came along, kind 1:08:31.800 --> 1:08:33.680 of got rid of everybody and started again, and that 1:08:33.720 --> 1:08:35.679 was in that transition of in the middle of that record. 1:08:35.760 --> 1:08:38.640 So to be honest, we still I'm not saying this, 1:08:38.720 --> 1:08:40.840 I'm not believe me, I'm not bragging. I'm just trying 1:08:40.880 --> 1:08:43.200 to give you the facts. Right, We still sold over 1:08:43.240 --> 1:08:46.960 a million albums with one single. It just didn't go boom, 1:08:47.000 --> 1:08:48.120 if you know what I mean. And we didn't and 1:08:48.120 --> 1:08:50.840 we didn't get any more singles at all in any 1:08:50.920 --> 1:08:53.479 chart anyway, it just didn't happen. And so it made 1:08:53.520 --> 1:08:55.679 me realize, and a few people who know what they're 1:08:55.680 --> 1:08:57.719 talking about it said, look, that just happens everyone. And again, 1:08:58.200 --> 1:09:00.120 you can be in the middle of a record and 1:09:00.160 --> 1:09:03.639 if your record company just disintegrates, it doesn't matter. Goodly 1:09:03.720 --> 1:09:05.320 record is and even though you've had a hit with it, 1:09:05.360 --> 1:09:07.200 and if the album's can of out then it's doing 1:09:07.240 --> 1:09:10.080 well and it's could even be Top ten in a 1:09:10.080 --> 1:09:12.000 couple of weeks, it's just gonna die of death because 1:09:12.000 --> 1:09:14.559 there's nothing making it happen. And what it sort of 1:09:14.600 --> 1:09:17.679 made me realize was that unless your record company really 1:09:17.720 --> 1:09:21.519 wants this to happen, unless they're really on board, you 1:09:21.560 --> 1:09:23.880 know what I mean, you've got no chance. Really, And 1:09:23.920 --> 1:09:26.160 I've never experienced that before. And obviously I was still 1:09:26.160 --> 1:09:28.400 a kid, really, I was young, you know. So anyway, 1:09:28.439 --> 1:09:30.640 so that record kind of ended, so we start to 1:09:30.640 --> 1:09:32.639 make how we gonna Are we gonna make another one? 1:09:32.640 --> 1:09:35.120 Are we not? Or we? What have you? So I'd 1:09:35.160 --> 1:09:38.040 written a song for a song. I can say this 1:09:38.040 --> 1:09:41.280 because it's years after how so it's cool. So Madonna 1:09:41.400 --> 1:09:42.800 was going to be in a movie called Body of 1:09:42.840 --> 1:09:44.360 Evidence with Willem Defoe. 1:09:46.040 --> 1:09:46.880 Two weeks ago. 1:09:47.320 --> 1:09:49.760 Why are you joking? That's nuts? 1:09:50.080 --> 1:09:52.639 I wanted to watch. I had COVID two weeks ago, 1:09:52.720 --> 1:09:55.599 so I wanted to wow. I wanted to watch all 1:09:55.600 --> 1:09:59.960 the horrible films I heard about. So I watched Basic 1:10:00.200 --> 1:10:00.880 Instinct two. 1:10:01.360 --> 1:10:02.200 I didn't even know there was. 1:10:06.600 --> 1:10:09.679 Instinct, yes, but not basically instinct to right. So anyway, 1:10:09.800 --> 1:10:12.519 so somebody who is A and R in the project 1:10:12.600 --> 1:10:14.240 or what have you sort of said, well, look, so 1:10:14.280 --> 1:10:15.800 the guy I wrote Cry for Help with a guy 1:10:15.800 --> 1:10:18.519 called Rob Fisher. He and I wrote a couple of songs. 1:10:19.520 --> 1:10:22.120 This song was called Hopelessly that we wrote. We sent 1:10:22.200 --> 1:10:24.720 it in to possibly be in the movie. We got 1:10:24.720 --> 1:10:27.200 this thing back saying, look, we absolutely love it. We're 1:10:27.240 --> 1:10:28.760 going to come to the UK. We want to be 1:10:28.800 --> 1:10:31.280 involved in how you record it. We don't not produce it, 1:10:31.320 --> 1:10:33.640 but we've got to be there, but we need it 1:10:33.680 --> 1:10:35.800 done right away because we're really close and we've just 1:10:35.840 --> 1:10:37.840 got to get this thing done. So we went great. 1:10:37.880 --> 1:10:40.080 I was meg excited that, but there's something that back 1:10:40.120 --> 1:10:42.639 on my mind's going why isn't Madonna singing this song? 1:10:42.960 --> 1:10:44.960 Why isn't she singing her own song? Why isn't she 1:10:45.080 --> 1:10:47.360 what's going on here? But they said no, she doesn't 1:10:47.360 --> 1:10:49.040 want to sing any of the songs. They don't want 1:10:49.040 --> 1:10:51.960 any They just she wants to act and that's it. 1:10:52.200 --> 1:10:54.639 So I'm like, great, that'll do for me. Madonna's gonna 1:10:54.720 --> 1:10:57.400 be part of you know, this massive thing, and I'm 1:10:57.400 --> 1:10:58.920 going to get a song in it, and let's go. 1:10:59.520 --> 1:11:02.559 So we do the song. Everyone said, we love it, 1:11:02.560 --> 1:11:05.840 it's great, it's perfect, We send it off. It's all great. 1:11:06.320 --> 1:11:09.840 So my record label, which is still our CABMG at 1:11:09.840 --> 1:11:11.759 the time, said right, we needed to make an album 1:11:11.800 --> 1:11:14.480 because this film's coming out in a few months, and 1:11:14.560 --> 1:11:15.960 so have you got any songs? So well, I've got 1:11:15.960 --> 1:11:17.519 a lot of songs because I've been writing. I've been 1:11:17.640 --> 1:11:19.559 you know it, said right, just getting this. So I 1:11:19.600 --> 1:11:21.720 went back in the studio with the guy who had 1:11:21.720 --> 1:11:24.639 made the last album, with a guy called Gary Stevenson 1:11:24.680 --> 1:11:27.000 who's still a good friend today, and we just got 1:11:27.000 --> 1:11:30.040 stuck into making an album. So we did. So a 1:11:30.120 --> 1:11:32.960 Body of Evidence is coming out and they've decided they're 1:11:33.000 --> 1:11:34.920 not going to have any songs in Body of Evidence. 1:11:35.880 --> 1:11:37.920 They're not going to do this with a lead song 1:11:38.040 --> 1:11:41.400 because it doesn't really that's going to confuse people and whatever. Right, 1:11:41.800 --> 1:11:43.559 maybe we did have a song in the end. Yeah, 1:11:44.000 --> 1:11:45.280 maybe they did have a song in the end. I 1:11:45.280 --> 1:11:47.240 can't remember, but but they certainly didn't have ours. I 1:11:47.280 --> 1:11:49.160 don't think they had any I think they just had 1:11:49.160 --> 1:11:52.080 the theme music. They didn't want to confuse Madonna's career 1:11:52.120 --> 1:11:56.840 with like this music, So what is it anyway? What ever? 1:11:56.960 --> 1:11:59.439 And maybe that's just the way I'm remembering it. So 1:11:59.479 --> 1:12:02.040 at this point, when I go into the record label, 1:12:02.080 --> 1:12:04.800 I've made an album. At this point, most people when 1:12:04.840 --> 1:12:06.519 I walk in the building, I'm kind of looking at 1:12:06.520 --> 1:12:09.840 the window, hoping not to make eye contact because now 1:12:09.880 --> 1:12:12.280 they don't know what to do. Now they don't know 1:12:12.320 --> 1:12:14.760 what to do. It's like, is this record any good? 1:12:14.840 --> 1:12:16.519 Is it the right record? Should we be doing this? 1:12:17.000 --> 1:12:18.880 I'd like to keep my career. So I'm just gonna 1:12:18.880 --> 1:12:20.639 look out the window when he walks in the building. 1:12:21.280 --> 1:12:23.960 And at this point, I'm like, you know what, I 1:12:23.960 --> 1:12:25.720 think I'm just gonna walk away. I think I'm just 1:12:25.760 --> 1:12:27.840 going to say, look, I'm gonna while no one's watching, 1:12:27.920 --> 1:12:30.080 and they obviously weren't, I'm just gonna walk I'm going 1:12:30.120 --> 1:12:32.519 to walk out the side door. And I spoke to 1:12:32.560 --> 1:12:35.960 a manager who spoke to my lawyer. I was doing 1:12:36.000 --> 1:12:39.880 promotion for that record that I had this song Hopelessly, 1:12:39.920 --> 1:12:42.599 which was going to be there whatever, and I think 1:12:42.600 --> 1:12:44.960 we were getting a bit of roots, getting a bit 1:12:45.000 --> 1:12:47.920 of headway in in America, actually funny enough, And I 1:12:47.960 --> 1:12:49.920 was I was going to the airport. I was going 1:12:49.920 --> 1:12:51.400 to Heathrow to get on a plane to go to 1:12:51.439 --> 1:12:53.000 New York to be on a TV show for get 1:12:53.000 --> 1:12:55.519 which One to sing this song hopelessly, And it was 1:12:55.520 --> 1:12:57.160 sort of getting played a little bit, but it wasn't 1:12:57.160 --> 1:12:59.760 getting the full do you know what I mean? And 1:13:01.120 --> 1:13:03.840 something in me said, I've got a daughter at home 1:13:04.600 --> 1:13:07.080 who is like, you know, one year older, thinks she 1:13:07.240 --> 1:13:10.200 was something like that. I've just done loads of promotion 1:13:10.280 --> 1:13:14.120 in Europe and it all felt pointless. I don't know 1:13:14.120 --> 1:13:15.840 whether you guys have been there, but it just felt 1:13:16.080 --> 1:13:19.240 absolutely it felt like, you know, it almost felt embarrassing, 1:13:19.320 --> 1:13:21.880 like sort of like we should just not be doing this. Really, 1:13:21.880 --> 1:13:23.400 they don't want to do it. I'm not sure I 1:13:23.479 --> 1:13:26.759 want to do it anymore. So I'm going to Heathrow. 1:13:27.240 --> 1:13:29.040 And I turned around to my manager, who is still 1:13:29.560 --> 1:13:32.280 one of my closest people in my life, and you know, 1:13:32.320 --> 1:13:34.880 he's a bit of a surrogate father. And I said, 1:13:35.400 --> 1:13:38.439 I think I'm done, and he's like, what do you mean. 1:13:38.439 --> 1:13:39.920 I'm like, I just don't want to go and I 1:13:39.920 --> 1:13:41.320 don't want to go and I don't want. 1:13:41.120 --> 1:13:41.479 To do this. 1:13:42.080 --> 1:13:43.760 And I knew what it meant, because I knew that 1:13:43.760 --> 1:13:45.840 that's it. You know, you don't you don't not go 1:13:45.920 --> 1:13:47.439 to New York to go and do a TV show 1:13:47.439 --> 1:13:50.080 and the record company go, oh, that's fine. I said, 1:13:50.120 --> 1:13:52.240 I think I'm done. So he said, fine, let's call 1:13:52.640 --> 1:13:54.519 let's call the lawyer and we'll just see fool. Let 1:13:54.560 --> 1:13:56.320 you walk away and forget about it, and we'll shake 1:13:56.360 --> 1:13:59.320 hands and we'll do that. And so we turned the 1:13:59.320 --> 1:14:01.559 car around and I went home and I cried a bit, 1:14:01.600 --> 1:14:03.759 you know, I did, obviously I knew what it meant. 1:14:04.360 --> 1:14:07.080 And I just went home and we had a bit 1:14:07.120 --> 1:14:09.320 of a hug, and he drove home and he called 1:14:09.320 --> 1:14:12.559 my lawyer and he called BMG, and to be fair 1:14:12.560 --> 1:14:14.240 to them, they said, yeah, we're okay with it. If 1:14:14.240 --> 1:14:16.200 he wants to quit, we don't want to do it anymore. 1:14:16.760 --> 1:14:17.960 And that was it. 1:14:22.760 --> 1:14:26.120 That's a rarity to one that's as good as it 1:14:26.120 --> 1:14:27.960 gets in the business. 1:14:28.160 --> 1:14:30.439 Yeah, because most people will try to force their will. 1:14:31.240 --> 1:14:34.640 Yeah. But I think also i'd had a very explosive 1:14:34.720 --> 1:14:36.439 pop career, you know, one of those kind of like 1:14:36.520 --> 1:14:39.840 boom sort of like I'd never really I don't think 1:14:39.840 --> 1:14:41.519 i'd really come to terms with a lot of it. 1:14:41.560 --> 1:14:43.840 I don't think i'd not grown up. I'd done from 1:14:43.880 --> 1:14:47.280 being nineteen to sign in a little production deal twenty 1:14:47.320 --> 1:14:50.679 one massive single that you know, on a really big album. 1:14:50.720 --> 1:14:53.000 It was a huge album and around the world and 1:14:53.040 --> 1:14:57.479 everything in nuts and and I never really, I never 1:14:58.120 --> 1:15:04.040 really I think got to sort of get totally comfortable. 1:15:04.080 --> 1:15:07.240 I don't think I think I was always chasing my 1:15:07.360 --> 1:15:09.840 tail and always kind of like I almost felt like 1:15:09.880 --> 1:15:11.720 I was always running after a bus. That was just 1:15:11.800 --> 1:15:14.320 always like leaving the depo before I got you know 1:15:14.360 --> 1:15:17.280 what I mean. And so I didn't I didn't grow 1:15:17.360 --> 1:15:19.560 up as a human. I've become a dad, but I 1:15:19.640 --> 1:15:22.000 don't really felt I didn't feel like a grown up, 1:15:22.000 --> 1:15:24.559 you know what I mean. So, and anyway, I'm gonna 1:15:24.640 --> 1:15:26.519 sorry very long answers. So that to the next part 1:15:26.520 --> 1:15:29.519 of the equation, is this that first album did really 1:15:29.560 --> 1:15:31.920 really well I wrote four songs on my own on it. 1:15:32.640 --> 1:15:34.760 The next album did pretty well. It did about half 1:15:34.800 --> 1:15:36.760 what the second one did, and I wrote five or 1:15:36.760 --> 1:15:41.600 six of them. So and even even the cry for 1:15:41.680 --> 1:15:44.080 help song it was on my album called Free. You know, 1:15:44.200 --> 1:15:46.240 we did a million something with that record. I wrote 1:15:46.280 --> 1:15:47.920 a lot of those tunes and co produced it and 1:15:47.960 --> 1:15:50.479 blah blah. So in other words, I made quite a 1:15:50.479 --> 1:15:52.960 lot of money because we sold a lot of you know, 1:15:53.160 --> 1:15:55.040 that first album sold over eight million, I think, you 1:15:55.040 --> 1:15:56.439 know what I mean. So we sold a lot of 1:15:56.479 --> 1:15:59.040 records back then, because if you had a hit couple 1:15:59.080 --> 1:16:02.439 of songs pop song, that very often meant he sold 1:16:02.479 --> 1:16:05.240 a lot of records. And so I just kind of 1:16:05.640 --> 1:16:08.080 was comfortable with that. But I've never I've never owned 1:16:08.080 --> 1:16:12.639 a fleet of ferraris. I've never driven a roll's voice 1:16:12.680 --> 1:16:13.639 into a swimming pool. 1:16:15.520 --> 1:16:17.320 You weren't balling out of control. 1:16:17.560 --> 1:16:20.720 No, I've been, I think again. I owed that back 1:16:20.760 --> 1:16:23.040 to my upbringing in the sense I'm from a very 1:16:23.080 --> 1:16:25.519 working class area. My dad had a little business, so 1:16:25.560 --> 1:16:28.519 I always knew there was a tax man. I didn't 1:16:28.560 --> 1:16:30.280 understand what it meant as a kid, but I knew 1:16:30.280 --> 1:16:31.880 he was coming, and I knew he wanted some money 1:16:31.880 --> 1:16:33.559 from my dad, do you know what I mean? Right, 1:16:33.680 --> 1:16:35.439 So my dad would be sat at home doing his 1:16:35.479 --> 1:16:37.519 paperwork and be going, right, well, that's for the taxman. 1:16:37.560 --> 1:16:40.080 I'm like, what what. I kind of thought a tax 1:16:40.160 --> 1:16:42.040 him was going to come with a bag almost. I mean, 1:16:42.040 --> 1:16:43.479 as a kid, I thought I thought he was going 1:16:43.520 --> 1:16:44.920 to knock on the door and give me the money, 1:16:44.960 --> 1:16:48.200 you know, But I always knew that was there. And 1:16:48.280 --> 1:16:51.400 so I think every bit of money that I earned. 1:16:52.560 --> 1:16:54.640 I think also because I was so busy for like, 1:16:54.840 --> 1:16:57.240 certainly the first three four years, well I only did 1:16:57.280 --> 1:16:59.160 it for four or five years. The first three years 1:16:59.160 --> 1:17:01.320 of it, I was so busy. I didn't buy anything, 1:17:01.760 --> 1:17:04.200 I think, in buy a house until quite a few 1:17:04.200 --> 1:17:05.679 you know what I mean, Because I was always traveling. 1:17:05.680 --> 1:17:09.360 I was always yeah. So and also I think that 1:17:09.479 --> 1:17:12.600 whole kind of like MTV cribs, look at my house lifestyle. 1:17:13.520 --> 1:17:16.040 Unless you were one of the absolute greats helping John 1:17:17.400 --> 1:17:18.439 the who the what have you? 1:17:18.479 --> 1:17:18.519 That? 1:17:18.640 --> 1:17:23.760 You know, whoever, you didn't, you didn't live like that. 1:17:23.920 --> 1:17:25.680 I think people just gone on with it and then 1:17:25.760 --> 1:17:27.800 realized they made some money some years later, you know 1:17:27.840 --> 1:17:28.160 what I mean? 1:17:28.640 --> 1:17:30.320 You tell that to my friends. 1:17:33.400 --> 1:17:33.960 Speaking of it. 1:17:34.000 --> 1:17:34.519 What was it like. 1:17:34.479 --> 1:17:35.080 Working with him? 1:17:35.320 --> 1:17:37.240 Yeah, I mean that guy is amazing in so many 1:17:37.280 --> 1:17:40.920 different ways. He got in touch. He cut a long 1:17:40.960 --> 1:17:45.160 story short. The first time any sort of connection was 1:17:46.000 --> 1:17:47.880 never going to give you up. Got this award at 1:17:47.920 --> 1:17:50.920 the BPI Awards, a Single of the Year, and because 1:17:50.960 --> 1:17:52.920 it was live back then, it was at the Albert 1:17:52.920 --> 1:17:57.519 Hale and fun enough just mentioned that who Who were 1:17:57.520 --> 1:17:59.160 closing the show and they were playing live at the 1:17:59.160 --> 1:18:01.840 album Hole. So the award for single is pretty much 1:18:01.880 --> 1:18:04.600 one of the last awards. So i was stood on 1:18:04.640 --> 1:18:07.040 this podium waiting to get the award with the audience 1:18:07.120 --> 1:18:09.720 looking at me but not the TV audience, and I've 1:18:09.760 --> 1:18:12.000 got this camera on me and to me, I'm thinking 1:18:12.040 --> 1:18:13.920 the cameras on. So I'm just stood there waiting for 1:18:13.960 --> 1:18:15.720 someone to stand up and go and the signal of 1:18:15.760 --> 1:18:18.640 the Year goes to Rick Hastley for right there. So 1:18:18.680 --> 1:18:20.880 I'm just stood there and the albuholes lo looking at me, 1:18:21.240 --> 1:18:23.000 and I'm like, but it didn't happen. No one came 1:18:23.080 --> 1:18:24.479 on the podium and no one gave me the award, 1:18:24.520 --> 1:18:26.880 and it just somebody just went. Ladies and gentlemen who 1:18:27.040 --> 1:18:30.960 and they just steamed into like, so I just stood there, 1:18:30.960 --> 1:18:35.240 going what is going on? And I'm literally still in 1:18:35.240 --> 1:18:37.360 this round podium, just in the middle somewhere, and I'm 1:18:37.400 --> 1:18:40.080 going like do and the camera's still looking and I'm going, 1:18:40.360 --> 1:18:42.200 what do I do? Don't walk do I shuffle away? 1:18:42.360 --> 1:18:43.920 Do I walk away? Do I look at the hoom? 1:18:43.960 --> 1:18:46.840 And E don't know what to do? And I just 1:18:46.920 --> 1:18:49.439 kind of like just sideways, just just kind of walked 1:18:49.439 --> 1:18:55.639 out of the picture. Anyway, I wasn't even upset because 1:18:55.800 --> 1:18:57.840 I was too in the sort of nonsense of it 1:18:57.880 --> 1:18:59.200 all to be upset. I was like, I don't know 1:18:59.240 --> 1:19:03.400 what's going on someone's life to do. So I woke up. 1:19:03.479 --> 1:19:05.720 But believe me, backstage it all kicked off. My god, 1:19:05.760 --> 1:19:08.200 there was some like who has you know? There really was, 1:19:08.520 --> 1:19:10.559 and my manager was really angry. I mean he was 1:19:10.640 --> 1:19:13.000 like fuming, do you know what I mean? And the 1:19:13.000 --> 1:19:15.600 stockcakeing watman guys were going ape shit, you know what 1:19:15.640 --> 1:19:17.479 I mean? It was really it was a big deal 1:19:17.479 --> 1:19:21.519 because they'd actually written and produced the song that had 1:19:21.520 --> 1:19:23.080 done you know what I mean, the business that year 1:19:23.120 --> 1:19:26.679 and blah blah. So anyway, a couple of days later, 1:19:27.760 --> 1:19:31.200 a crate of. I think it was Crystal Champagne arrived 1:19:31.240 --> 1:19:35.880 at my manager's office from help John to me saying 1:19:35.920 --> 1:19:38.120 that I'm really really sorry, what an awful thing to happen. 1:19:38.160 --> 1:19:41.559 That's absolutely terrible. All the best, keep on making music, 1:19:41.560 --> 1:19:43.160 don't let it get you down. Do it a really 1:19:43.240 --> 1:19:46.080 nice letter, and I was just thinking, like, this is 1:19:46.200 --> 1:19:47.960 just how amazing is that, you know what I mean 1:19:48.080 --> 1:19:51.040 to sort of, But obviously as time has gone on, 1:19:51.280 --> 1:19:54.080 I've obviously understood he's had his moments in life. I'm 1:19:54.120 --> 1:19:56.439 sure where he's been let down and he's been do 1:19:56.439 --> 1:19:58.559 you know what I mean? And I think he's always 1:19:58.960 --> 1:20:01.519 he's always done that thing, reaching out to younger artists, 1:20:01.520 --> 1:20:04.400 sort of saying, look, if you ever want any advice, 1:20:04.439 --> 1:20:06.360 if you ever want to you know. So he invited 1:20:06.479 --> 1:20:08.639 myself out, and my wife and I went to dinner 1:20:08.680 --> 1:20:12.040 with him and a few friends, and he was just 1:20:12.200 --> 1:20:15.639 chatting about stuff really and just being a nice dude, 1:20:15.680 --> 1:20:17.320 you know what I mean, and just kind of saying, look, 1:20:17.320 --> 1:20:18.800 if you ever want to talk, if you ever get 1:20:18.840 --> 1:20:22.360 you know. And I also think, because obviously he especially 1:20:22.360 --> 1:20:25.280 in the latter you know, years, I think he's also 1:20:25.360 --> 1:20:28.960 been very helpful to people who've been going to major problems, 1:20:28.960 --> 1:20:30.439 you know, with drugs and drinking all the rest of 1:20:30.479 --> 1:20:32.519 it and all kinds of things, you know. I think 1:20:32.520 --> 1:20:34.519 that's what his life is about really now, is about 1:20:34.520 --> 1:20:36.360 more giving back than it's taken, if you know what 1:20:36.400 --> 1:20:38.639 I mean. But anyway, that's another world to gain too. 1:20:39.479 --> 1:20:42.160 So but on that dinner that night, he said, look, 1:20:42.160 --> 1:20:43.600 if you ever want me to come and play, you know, 1:20:43.600 --> 1:20:44.880 if you want to come and play on a record 1:20:44.880 --> 1:20:46.600 of just just get in touch, you know. And I'm like, 1:20:47.000 --> 1:20:49.080 and I'm listening to him say the words, but I'm 1:20:49.120 --> 1:20:53.120 not really computing it. Sure Enough, sure enough he did. 1:20:53.200 --> 1:20:55.120 He came and played, and he just rolled up. He 1:20:55.200 --> 1:20:57.519 just rocked up and just played piano and a couple 1:20:57.520 --> 1:20:59.519 of songs on that record that I did when I left. 1:20:59.600 --> 1:21:02.840 I think he's just always been great. He I made 1:21:02.880 --> 1:21:04.759 a record a few years ago when I turned fifty. 1:21:04.760 --> 1:21:07.559 I made a record in my garage at home, just 1:21:07.600 --> 1:21:10.559 sort of just to kind of say to myself what 1:21:10.600 --> 1:21:12.200 I could do. I didn't even have a record deal 1:21:12.240 --> 1:21:16.800 at the time. And he we went to see him 1:21:16.800 --> 1:21:18.800 in Vegas. And I'm saying this because I want to. 1:21:18.840 --> 1:21:21.080 I want to. I'm proud of myself, but I also 1:21:21.120 --> 1:21:22.800 want to say how great he is in it. In 1:21:22.840 --> 1:21:26.120 that same sentence, we went to see him just because 1:21:26.120 --> 1:21:27.519 we've seen him a bunch of times and I wanted 1:21:27.560 --> 1:21:29.120 to see the show that he does in Vegas that 1:21:29.160 --> 1:21:31.400 he was doing the Red He's just sat there and 1:21:31.400 --> 1:21:32.760 he knows him in the audience kind of thing, and 1:21:32.760 --> 1:21:34.280 he sat there and he just says to the audience, is, 1:21:34.320 --> 1:21:36.760 by the way, nas, jentleman, there's a young man in 1:21:36.760 --> 1:21:38.519 the audience tonight. Not when I was younger. There's a 1:21:38.520 --> 1:21:40.640 guy in the audience tonight. He said, if you're going 1:21:40.680 --> 1:21:42.080 to buy a record, if you're going to buy a 1:21:42.080 --> 1:21:44.200 record in the next few weeks or next months by 1:21:44.280 --> 1:21:47.679 rick as record by Rick Aster's record is full fifty. 1:21:47.760 --> 1:21:50.800 It's an absolutely fantastic And I'm like, what is going on? 1:21:50.840 --> 1:21:53.719 You know, It's like wow. And he's always he's always 1:21:53.760 --> 1:21:56.320 done things like that. I mean, for loads of artists 1:21:56.360 --> 1:21:58.320 to think, and you know, he's always he's still keen 1:21:58.360 --> 1:22:00.360 on working with the artists and doing due and all 1:22:00.400 --> 1:22:03.080 the rest of it. And so I just think he's 1:22:03.120 --> 1:22:06.160 one of those people that I know some people around him. 1:22:06.200 --> 1:22:08.960 I'm really good friends with David Johnson is MD and 1:22:09.000 --> 1:22:10.920 his guitar player for for all the years that he's 1:22:10.960 --> 1:22:13.160 been going. Really so I've been to loads of his 1:22:13.240 --> 1:22:15.759 gigs and you know, been around some of the stories 1:22:15.760 --> 1:22:19.800 and some backgrounds on the Lion King, some of those 1:22:19.800 --> 1:22:21.800 songs and stuff like because I was just there and 1:22:21.840 --> 1:22:24.680 he just so much that get in there to sing, 1:22:24.800 --> 1:22:27.000 you know, and stuff, and I just think he's one 1:22:27.000 --> 1:22:29.080 of those people who's still in love with music. He's 1:22:29.120 --> 1:22:32.000 still back in the days of CDs and what have you. 1:22:32.840 --> 1:22:34.880 He would go into stores. I'm sure you've heard this story. 1:22:34.880 --> 1:22:37.160 It's legend, go in there and come out with two 1:22:37.240 --> 1:22:40.559 great big bags of CDs because he's still wanted to 1:22:40.600 --> 1:22:43.479 be like, what's going on? I should know what's going on, 1:22:43.520 --> 1:22:44.720 and I want to hear that thing, you know what 1:22:45.200 --> 1:22:45.439 is it? 1:22:45.520 --> 1:22:47.800 So now he's the real deal. He was one of 1:22:47.800 --> 1:22:51.439 the first, the very first people to UH when I 1:22:51.479 --> 1:22:53.439 when I won the BEFT and I ask her. He 1:22:53.479 --> 1:22:55.360 was one of the first people to cod caught me 1:22:55.439 --> 1:22:59.800 and congratulate me. And he's like that, wait before we 1:22:59.840 --> 1:23:03.400 read up. I always wanted to know, are you shocked 1:23:03.439 --> 1:23:06.439 at the level of adoration that you're getting for like 1:23:06.600 --> 1:23:10.479 these uh cover songs that you do in in your 1:23:10.520 --> 1:23:14.160 show now And speaking of Network, did you resist the 1:23:14.200 --> 1:23:16.960 temptation to do a Zeppelin song at Network when you 1:23:17.040 --> 1:23:17.760 did it or. 1:23:18.479 --> 1:23:20.400 Yeah, no, it wasn't that kind of a nebworth to realest. 1:23:20.439 --> 1:23:22.000 I think it was just because it was big enough 1:23:22.040 --> 1:23:26.240 to get cars in there with gardens, private gardens or 1:23:26.280 --> 1:23:29.479 whatever you want to call them. Whatever, right, Uh no, 1:23:30.160 --> 1:23:32.080 it's funny. I've never really gotten the lead out, to 1:23:32.080 --> 1:23:33.960 be honest, I'm not. I've got friends who are so 1:23:34.120 --> 1:23:37.360 into Zeppelin's it's freaky and obviously John Bonham that's another story, right, 1:23:37.360 --> 1:23:41.880 because just great. But I think it's never really I'm 1:23:41.880 --> 1:23:43.680 not saying I'm not a fan, and I'm not I 1:23:43.680 --> 1:23:48.280 don't appreciate Zeppelin, but it's I'm if I ever go well, 1:23:48.320 --> 1:23:50.160 and I do love a lot of rock music. I 1:23:50.200 --> 1:23:54.160 still play drums in a midlife crisis, punk rock covers 1:23:54.160 --> 1:23:57.360 band and what have you. And we go from like 1:23:59.360 --> 1:24:02.479 uh more ac DC to be honest and then yeah, 1:24:04.120 --> 1:24:06.639 right okay and more sort of punky rock sort of things. 1:24:09.160 --> 1:24:11.479 I just the thing is how I started is how 1:24:11.520 --> 1:24:14.320 most people start. You start by covering other people's songs 1:24:14.920 --> 1:24:17.679 and there's a real joy in doing it. There's a real. 1:24:19.439 --> 1:24:20.840 Well, you look like you're having the time of your 1:24:20.840 --> 1:24:21.720 life when you're doing it. 1:24:22.120 --> 1:24:24.519 Yeah, I do. I love it And every time. For instance, 1:24:24.560 --> 1:24:29.280 we toured in the UK in October, not into November, 1:24:29.720 --> 1:24:31.479 and we'd postpone that to her a couple of times, 1:24:31.479 --> 1:24:34.240 and so I went into rehearsals and they know what's coming, 1:24:34.360 --> 1:24:35.880 my band and crew and everything. They know I'm going 1:24:35.960 --> 1:24:38.200 to walk in on the last day because I don't 1:24:38.240 --> 1:24:40.760 like to give people much warning and say, right, we're 1:24:40.800 --> 1:24:43.639 doing uh, we're gonna do Watermelon Sugar by Harry Styles, 1:24:43.680 --> 1:24:46.240 and everyone's like, right, fire, what key? How are we? 1:24:47.720 --> 1:24:49.519 And I just got to play it. But the other 1:24:49.600 --> 1:24:51.240 reason I kind of like to do that is because 1:24:51.280 --> 1:24:53.160 if we can't all just shuffle into it and just 1:24:53.200 --> 1:24:55.479 play it and make it work, we shouldn't be doing 1:24:55.479 --> 1:24:58.960 it unless it just sort of happens instantly. So we 1:24:58.960 --> 1:25:00.960 we've done loads of cover and I just I love 1:25:01.040 --> 1:25:04.439 doing it. I still absolutely love it, and I think, 1:25:04.479 --> 1:25:08.400 to be honest, there's an element about doing other people's 1:25:08.439 --> 1:25:13.240 songs that there's a there's a tension relief because it's 1:25:13.280 --> 1:25:15.280 like you're just doing a cover. Do you know what 1:25:15.280 --> 1:25:17.080 I mean? It's not it's not like you're trying to 1:25:17.120 --> 1:25:20.800 represent for the audience something they've paid to come and watch. 1:25:20.840 --> 1:25:23.040 They've sort of gone right. I bought that first album 1:25:23.080 --> 1:25:25.000 thirty odd years ago. I wanted to do never going 1:25:25.040 --> 1:25:26.759 to give you up. I wanted to sound like the record. 1:25:27.160 --> 1:25:29.800 I wanted to you know what I mean. I feel 1:25:29.800 --> 1:25:31.040 like old them that, you know what I mean? And 1:25:31.080 --> 1:25:33.280 that's not in a negative I want to give them that. 1:25:33.680 --> 1:25:35.280 But I think when you do covers, you can just 1:25:35.320 --> 1:25:37.840 sort of say it don't really matter. I don't mean 1:25:37.840 --> 1:25:40.320 that with any disrespect to the artists at all. I 1:25:40.439 --> 1:25:42.519 just mean it's just having fun, you know. I think 1:25:42.560 --> 1:25:45.960 all artists like covering other people's songs. It's just, you know, 1:25:46.120 --> 1:25:48.519 it's just it's just fun. Yeah. 1:25:49.200 --> 1:25:54.559 So my last question is who explained to you what 1:25:54.720 --> 1:25:55.840 Rick Rolling was? 1:25:56.439 --> 1:25:57.120 Okay? 1:25:57.960 --> 1:26:00.519 I have one of my closest friends, a guy called Fampton, 1:26:00.640 --> 1:26:04.599 and he is and his brother, actually Daniel was mixed 1:26:04.640 --> 1:26:07.559 and engineered last couple of albums for me and stuff. 1:26:07.600 --> 1:26:10.519 But Andrew is a producer and a writer and lots 1:26:10.520 --> 1:26:13.960 of other things. He I was on holiday in Italy 1:26:14.080 --> 1:26:17.000 and he literally RiPP wrote me in an email. So 1:26:17.320 --> 1:26:20.400 this is years ago, obviously, and I'm like, so I 1:26:20.479 --> 1:26:24.400 just emailed him back and went, okay, whatever, whatever send 1:26:24.960 --> 1:26:26.640 And then so he did it again, and I'm like 1:26:27.320 --> 1:26:30.760 I replied an answer to him saying, what are you doing? 1:26:30.800 --> 1:26:33.000 You know what I mean, We've known each other years, right, like, 1:26:33.120 --> 1:26:34.280 what are you actually doing? 1:26:34.320 --> 1:26:34.400 What? 1:26:34.520 --> 1:26:36.559 You know? Because I didn't grasp what it was at all. 1:26:36.880 --> 1:26:39.080 And it's also this is the early days of YouTube. 1:26:39.320 --> 1:26:41.680 It's the early days of someone getting an email with 1:26:41.760 --> 1:26:43.280 a video link in it that I mean, I know, 1:26:43.360 --> 1:26:46.720 that's like just so makes me like a granddad, but 1:26:46.760 --> 1:26:49.240 I mean it was early that that was quite a 1:26:49.240 --> 1:26:52.639 novel thing, right. So in the end, we're we're on 1:26:53.240 --> 1:26:55.360 our holiday in Italy. We're on the Mouthy Coast. I 1:26:55.400 --> 1:26:57.040 remember it where I was and everything in the hotel 1:26:57.040 --> 1:26:58.800 and everything. So I get on the phone to him, 1:26:58.880 --> 1:27:01.000 right Andrew, what the hell are you doing? 1:27:01.120 --> 1:27:01.280 Right? 1:27:01.320 --> 1:27:03.559 What are you doing? Kind of thing? And he's laughing 1:27:03.760 --> 1:27:06.120 and he's like, so you don't know what a rip 1:27:06.200 --> 1:27:09.760 roll is. I'm like, no, I don't even know, don't 1:27:09.760 --> 1:27:12.360 know the term, the language, the nothing. So he kind 1:27:12.360 --> 1:27:14.240 of explained it to me, and even then I still 1:27:14.280 --> 1:27:17.240 sort of thought, nah, this is just him joking, This 1:27:17.360 --> 1:27:19.080 is just him doing this and a couple other friends 1:27:19.120 --> 1:27:21.000 that he's going to get to email me and do whatever, 1:27:21.479 --> 1:27:23.479 and had no idea that it was actually this little 1:27:23.479 --> 1:27:26.599 bubble on the Internet that people were, you know. So, 1:27:27.280 --> 1:27:30.960 to be honest, I give credit to my daughter for 1:27:31.120 --> 1:27:36.920 mostly putting me right about it. I'd been nominated for 1:27:36.960 --> 1:27:41.040 an MTV award in whenever, it was fifteen years ago, 1:27:41.880 --> 1:27:44.639 something to do with best Live Act or Best Act 1:27:44.760 --> 1:27:46.880 or best something, which all they were doing they were 1:27:46.920 --> 1:27:49.320 jumping on the rip roll thing and they were having 1:27:49.360 --> 1:27:51.000 a bit of fun. They were having a bit of fun, 1:27:51.120 --> 1:27:54.439 possibly at my expense, and that's whatever. But it was 1:27:54.439 --> 1:27:57.360 going to be in Liverpool, and I knew that Sir 1:27:57.360 --> 1:27:59.839 Paul McCartney was going to be getting a Lifetime Achievement 1:27:59.880 --> 1:28:04.240 or from Bono in Liverpool, right right, And I'm like, 1:28:04.640 --> 1:28:05.680 am I going to go to that? 1:28:05.880 --> 1:28:05.960 No? 1:28:06.080 --> 1:28:08.920 I am not right. I wasn't even really gonna go anyway, 1:28:08.920 --> 1:28:11.000 but I thought, I'm definitely not going there. If it 1:28:11.000 --> 1:28:13.960 would have been in Leipzig or Hamburg or Brussels, I 1:28:14.080 --> 1:28:16.000 might have gone to that, right, I ain't going to 1:28:16.000 --> 1:28:18.559 Liverpool with Sir Paul McCartney and Bonda. That ain't happening, right, 1:28:19.600 --> 1:28:23.639 And my daughter said, she said, look, there's no way 1:28:23.640 --> 1:28:26.400 you're going to that. That's just like some And I said, no, 1:28:26.479 --> 1:28:28.400 you're right, you know, and she was like fifteen sixteen 1:28:28.400 --> 1:28:31.280 whatever she was. He said, you do realize it's got 1:28:31.320 --> 1:28:36.040 nothing to do with you. And I went and I 1:28:36.080 --> 1:28:38.479 was actually, I was stunned. Actually, I'm right. What do 1:28:38.520 --> 1:28:41.040 you mean, It's got nothing to it? Actually says Rick Roll. 1:28:41.240 --> 1:28:43.439 I'm the Rick in the Rick role. It's the video. 1:28:43.560 --> 1:28:46.479 I'm in the video. He said, yeah, it's got nothing 1:28:46.520 --> 1:28:49.880 to do with you. And it was like really wise 1:28:49.960 --> 1:28:54.679 words from a young a young woman, young girl, because 1:28:55.280 --> 1:28:58.280 she was absolutely right. It's it's got everything to do 1:28:58.320 --> 1:29:00.719 with me and nothing to do with me same time. 1:29:00.960 --> 1:29:02.960 And it's probably the best bit of advice I ever 1:29:03.000 --> 1:29:05.240 had about it, all of it, and that is to say, 1:29:05.400 --> 1:29:07.600 it's over there and it's doing whatever it is, and 1:29:07.640 --> 1:29:09.519 it's a thing, and it's one of you, and it 1:29:09.560 --> 1:29:11.519 can be fun and you can even enjoy the fun 1:29:11.520 --> 1:29:14.920 and get involved in it sometimes, but it isn't. It's 1:29:14.920 --> 1:29:17.679 a thing and it's a whatever. Just it's there. Whatever 1:29:17.720 --> 1:29:21.560 it is. And that's because she was of the generation 1:29:22.240 --> 1:29:24.960 to understand the Internet way more than I was. So, 1:29:26.240 --> 1:29:28.080 you know, even though I had explained by one of 1:29:28.080 --> 1:29:31.080 my best friends who is my age, her explanation of 1:29:31.120 --> 1:29:32.720 it in a real way was kind of a lot 1:29:32.760 --> 1:29:34.320 more useful to me. 1:29:34.360 --> 1:29:36.440 If you know what I mean, what's your most famous 1:29:36.680 --> 1:29:39.280 Rick rold turned down that you've done? Like, I'm not 1:29:39.439 --> 1:29:39.760 doing that? 1:29:40.880 --> 1:29:43.200 Uh well, I get I get really commercial ones for 1:29:43.280 --> 1:29:45.679 money basically with products and things and all the rest 1:29:45.680 --> 1:29:47.519 of it, and I don't. I'll do ones that I 1:29:47.520 --> 1:29:49.920 think are okay and I think they're fine, and they're not, 1:29:50.439 --> 1:29:52.840 you know, in any way. And also because if they 1:29:52.840 --> 1:29:54.320 have a bit of a sense of humor about it, 1:29:54.360 --> 1:29:56.479 if you know what I mean, I've just done, I say, 1:29:56.560 --> 1:29:59.439 just a few months ago, did one for a video 1:29:59.439 --> 1:30:02.280 game for God into the Galaxy. And I loved that movie, 1:30:02.320 --> 1:30:04.599 the first movie when it came out, I absolutely loved it. 1:30:04.840 --> 1:30:07.920 And the way they use music, I think is such 1:30:07.920 --> 1:30:12.080 a blessing because kids know those songs, even the ones 1:30:12.080 --> 1:30:15.080 from the seventies, eighties, whatever, They know those songs. Like 1:30:15.120 --> 1:30:16.760 we were talking at the very beginning, all three of 1:30:16.840 --> 1:30:18.719 us talking at the beginning about how we listened to music, 1:30:18.720 --> 1:30:20.920 how we've come across and stuff. So I thought that 1:30:21.040 --> 1:30:22.840 was a really cool thing to do when the guys 1:30:22.840 --> 1:30:25.040 who made the video game are really great. So I'm 1:30:25.040 --> 1:30:29.160 more than happy to be invited to do that. But 1:30:29.200 --> 1:30:30.720 there's just times when I just look at it and 1:30:30.760 --> 1:30:33.920 I go now, I just don't feel that it's just. 1:30:34.960 --> 1:30:40.120 And I also think it's a really difficult thing to navigate. 1:30:40.160 --> 1:30:43.759 I think, how far to just do something for money. 1:30:44.280 --> 1:30:46.240 But don't get me wrong, my wife and I my 1:30:46.280 --> 1:30:50.240 wife manages me, and we have a criteria of things 1:30:50.240 --> 1:30:53.479 that need answering. The first one it usually comes up 1:30:53.600 --> 1:30:57.000 is where is it? Because if somebody says it's in 1:30:57.080 --> 1:30:59.840 Santiago and Chile, then we're almost on the plane, right 1:31:00.120 --> 1:31:01.920 And I don't love flying, but we're almost on the 1:31:01.960 --> 1:31:04.880 plane because we have great promoters down there, We've got 1:31:04.880 --> 1:31:07.000 some great wine down there. We love it down there. 1:31:07.120 --> 1:31:09.240 And if someone says to you, you know someone like that, 1:31:09.439 --> 1:31:11.680 or you know anywhere in South America, that's like what 1:31:11.840 --> 1:31:14.920 you know. Japan has been to quite a few times 1:31:14.920 --> 1:31:17.360 one way or other different places. There's lots of places 1:31:17.360 --> 1:31:19.840 in the world. Coming back to America and getting to 1:31:19.880 --> 1:31:22.160 go to towns and cities in such a way like 1:31:22.240 --> 1:31:24.240 this with the guys and everything. It's been such a 1:31:24.280 --> 1:31:26.360 trait really not something I can do on my own 1:31:26.439 --> 1:31:29.720 in any way, shape or form, so you know. But 1:31:29.720 --> 1:31:32.240 but the truth of it is, it's like where is it. 1:31:32.240 --> 1:31:35.559 It's also kind of yes, there's money involved, usually as 1:31:35.600 --> 1:31:38.240 cost there is, But what we also look at is 1:31:38.240 --> 1:31:41.120 we sometimes say, well, you know what, we'll do that 1:31:41.400 --> 1:31:44.439 because that basically means we can do this. Well, We're 1:31:44.439 --> 1:31:46.320 not going to make any money, but I just really 1:31:46.400 --> 1:31:49.000 want to do it. By the time we've flown the 1:31:49.040 --> 1:31:50.960 band and the crew there, it's probably going to cost 1:31:51.040 --> 1:31:53.680 me money, but I really want to do it. I 1:31:53.760 --> 1:31:55.639 really want to do it, and that pays for it. 1:31:55.920 --> 1:31:58.120 And I'm not afraid or embarrassed to talk about that, 1:31:58.200 --> 1:31:59.960 because at the end of the day, music is a 1:32:00.040 --> 1:32:02.080 business and it has to kind of balance out at 1:32:02.080 --> 1:32:04.280 some point, and you pick and choose and you do 1:32:04.320 --> 1:32:07.040 the ones you know. So so I think I've just 1:32:07.120 --> 1:32:10.360 always used my head in terms of thinking about the 1:32:10.680 --> 1:32:12.559 rip roll thing and never going to give you up 1:32:12.600 --> 1:32:15.679 the same look, I don't want to bleed it dry 1:32:15.760 --> 1:32:19.040 because I don't but sometimes there's opportunities that come along 1:32:19.080 --> 1:32:21.760 and sometimes they just happen. Sometimes they just happen in 1:32:21.760 --> 1:32:24.200 front of me, and it's like I'm getting on the 1:32:24.200 --> 1:32:26.559 stage and I'm singing that song right now because it's 1:32:26.680 --> 1:32:30.679 it's just been it's just happening on this It's tricky, 1:32:30.720 --> 1:32:32.280 and like you said, there's a lot of artists who 1:32:32.280 --> 1:32:34.559 want to run a million miles from their biggest, oldest song, 1:32:35.160 --> 1:32:37.400 and I kind of go the other way. I sort 1:32:37.400 --> 1:32:40.080 of embrace it, and it's it's it's like an old 1:32:40.160 --> 1:32:42.439 jacket and it's kept me warm for thirty odd years, 1:32:42.439 --> 1:32:44.280 do you know what I mean? So I just I 1:32:44.280 --> 1:32:48.479 have that kind of like comfortable love for it. 1:32:48.520 --> 1:32:52.599 I think, well that that's inspirational because I'm a human 1:32:52.680 --> 1:32:59.920 being that is still slowly, you know, highly uncomfortable when 1:33:00.560 --> 1:33:03.240 nice gestures happen or people show you love or that 1:33:03.360 --> 1:33:05.519 sort of thing. Like I would have proudly been the 1:33:05.560 --> 1:33:09.160 opposite and run away from it. But you know, it's 1:33:09.200 --> 1:33:13.320 really inspiring to see someone in a healthy way just 1:33:13.479 --> 1:33:19.320 embrace and embrace their their work and really enjoy it 1:33:19.320 --> 1:33:22.960 and not be serious, but not take themselves that seriously 1:33:23.040 --> 1:33:26.439 because you know, I've run across many an artist that 1:33:26.520 --> 1:33:30.320 does nothing but try to sabotage a good thing, and. 1:33:30.479 --> 1:33:32.720 I understand it. I do understand it, Don't get me wrong. 1:33:32.760 --> 1:33:35.519 I do. And like I say that, me having that 1:33:35.560 --> 1:33:38.439 fifteen years or more not doing it is what I 1:33:38.479 --> 1:33:41.439 think allows me to be comfortable about it now because 1:33:41.439 --> 1:33:44.280 I'm not it anymore and I'm not wrapped up in it. 1:33:44.360 --> 1:33:46.559 And don't get me wrong, I want to represent it 1:33:46.600 --> 1:33:48.360 when I sing it live, you know, when I'm out 1:33:48.400 --> 1:33:50.519 with new kids doing this, or whether I'm doing my 1:33:50.560 --> 1:33:52.800 own shows, wherever it is. I want to go out 1:33:52.800 --> 1:33:55.080 and sing that song the best I possibly can. And 1:33:55.120 --> 1:33:57.760 I want anybody who remembers it and has some love 1:33:57.840 --> 1:34:01.880 for it to have that emotion with me and vice versa, 1:34:01.920 --> 1:34:04.400 and share it a bit and say, yeah, I was there, 1:34:04.520 --> 1:34:07.040 I bought the T shirt. I remember, you know, because 1:34:07.080 --> 1:34:10.520 that because I go to whether it's Sir Paul McCartney 1:34:10.520 --> 1:34:13.240 in fort Worth the other week, or whether it's somebody 1:34:13.280 --> 1:34:17.920 who's nowhere near his level of you know, greatness or whatever, 1:34:18.320 --> 1:34:20.280 whether it's somebody just starting out or what have you. 1:34:20.760 --> 1:34:23.880 If I've got a connection with them because I, you know, 1:34:24.040 --> 1:34:26.280 loved that record, then i want to feel that in 1:34:26.320 --> 1:34:28.519 the room. And if I feel their up and doing it, 1:34:28.760 --> 1:34:31.080 just painting my numbers up there going looking at the 1:34:31.120 --> 1:34:34.240 Watchgod or be off the stage at ten minutes. I'm like, 1:34:34.840 --> 1:34:36.680 I'd rather walk out. I don't want to know, do 1:34:36.720 --> 1:34:39.160 you know what I mean? It's we've still got to 1:34:39.240 --> 1:34:41.679 respect it. I think, however old the song is, and 1:34:42.240 --> 1:34:45.680 even if it's become an internet meme, you still have 1:34:45.720 --> 1:34:48.840 to respect what the true emotion of it when when 1:34:48.880 --> 1:34:50.160 somebody heard it the first time. 1:34:50.920 --> 1:34:53.479 I appreciate you for, you know, taking the time out 1:34:53.520 --> 1:34:56.559 with us and and and sharing your journey and your story. 1:34:56.600 --> 1:35:00.240 And you know, whether whether on the radio or ted 1:35:00.320 --> 1:35:03.080 Lasso or the internet, you know this song is going 1:35:03.120 --> 1:35:06.880 to be here forever man, and I appreciate you for 1:35:07.439 --> 1:35:10.479 sharing this with us. And this is uh Rick Astley 1:35:10.560 --> 1:35:13.800 on Quest Love Supreme. Won't be out of Fontigelow Sugar, 1:35:13.880 --> 1:35:19.599 Steve Unpaid, Bill and myself and laya thank you guys, 1:35:19.600 --> 1:35:21.680 and we'll see you on the next go round of 1:35:21.840 --> 1:35:30.280 Quest Love Supreme. All right, y'all. Quest Love Supreme is 1:35:30.280 --> 1:35:38.479 a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, 1:35:38.600 --> 1:35:42.080 visit the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you 1:35:42.120 --> 1:35:43.560 listen to your favorite shows.