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Speaker 1: Hey there, folks, it is Wednesday, November the twelfth, and

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Speaker 1: let me ask you something. Can a straight actor play

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Speaker 1: a gay character? Also? Can a Republican be supportive of

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Speaker 1: the LGBTQ plus community? Well? Why are we asking those questions?

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Speaker 1: Because Ruby Rose is asking those questions and she's directing

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Speaker 1: it fiercely at Sidney Sweeney. And with that, everybody, welcome

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Speaker 1: to this episode of Amy and TJ. This is a

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Speaker 1: some of the questions, I guess robes are just asked.

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Speaker 1: Some of those debates have been going on, but they've

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Speaker 1: taken on a new meaning, a new fierceness, because it

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Speaker 1: involves somebody who is one of the most popular and

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Speaker 1: polarizing people on the planet right now, at least in Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: and that's Sidney Sweeny.

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Speaker 2: That's Sidney Sweeney. And maybe you could even add Ruby

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Speaker 2: Rose to that as well on the other end of

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Speaker 2: the spectrum. But look, we've been talking about this this

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Speaker 2: morning because of but Ruby Rose put up on Instagram

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Speaker 2: talking about the movie Christy Sidney Sweeney. It plays the

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Speaker 2: lead role of Christy Martin, and that movie did not

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Speaker 2: do well over the weekend, and Ruby Rose took direct

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Speaker 2: aim at Sidney Sweeney and you actually were really hesitant

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Speaker 2: to even do this story.

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Speaker 1: Because it didn't come off fun initially as a as

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Speaker 1: a critique of the work. It seemed very personal and

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Speaker 1: she used and she doubled down and followed up, and

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Speaker 1: I mean throwing names at her, calling her names. That

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Speaker 1: part of it where you I hate to see people

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Speaker 1: like that go after each other. And Sidney Sweeney is

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Speaker 1: not going after her, I should say, but this looked

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Speaker 1: like and it sounded like sour apples and tabloid clickbait

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Speaker 1: that everybody in all the headlines you see Sidney Sweeney's name.

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Speaker 1: She's been called blank by this other acts. I just

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Speaker 1: didn't like that. But within it there is a more

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Speaker 1: relevant conversation has been going on in the country for years.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and it is a question a lot of

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Speaker 2: folks ask. Look, you know, the whole concept of being

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Speaker 2: an actor means you take on roles that are unlike yourself.

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Speaker 2: They're trained to do this. This is part of what

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Speaker 2: acting is, being something doing something that you wouldn't do

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Speaker 2: as you but you're actually portraying another person. However, this goes,

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Speaker 2: and this has been a debate for years now. Can

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Speaker 2: a non blind actor play a blind role. How about

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Speaker 2: someone who doesn't have autism? How about someone who is

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Speaker 2: challenged in a different way? Can is it acceptable? Is

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Speaker 2: it offensive to try and take on the role of

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Speaker 2: someone who has a different life experience than you that

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Speaker 2: you couldn't possibly understand in the skin that you're wearing,

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Speaker 2: you could.

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Speaker 1: Play a role. I mean, those debates have been going on.

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Speaker 1: This is I guess it was the heart of some

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Speaker 1: of Ruby Rose's criticism of this movie. And again, Christy

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Speaker 1: Martin maybe not a household name, but she was a

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Speaker 1: pioneer when it comes to women's boxing. So Sidney Sweeney

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Speaker 1: did all the work. She put on thirty plus pounds

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Speaker 1: to play this role. And some folks say it's Oscar

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Speaker 1: bait whatever, but it didn't do good at the box office.

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Speaker 1: It actually did historically bad at the box office, making

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Speaker 1: one point three or so million on two thousand plus screens.

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Speaker 1: The folks who keep up with this will tell you

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Speaker 1: that is one of the worst openings for a movie

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Speaker 1: that was on that many screens. Okay, fine, So Ruby Rose,

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Speaker 1: an actress and who has been openly out lesbian for

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Speaker 1: years and years, she took issue with her having the

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Speaker 1: role and She's now wrote saying that the reason that

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Speaker 1: the movie didn't do well is directly directly attributable, in

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Speaker 1: her opinion, to her sexuality and her political leanings.

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Speaker 2: Right, and so, in fact, let's go ahead and read

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Speaker 2: what Ruby Rose wrote that is causing so much of

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Speaker 2: a stir. The original Christy Martin's script was incredible, life changing.

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Speaker 2: I was attached to play Cherry. Everyone had experience with

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Speaker 2: the core material. Most of us were actually gay. It's

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Speaker 2: part of why I stayed in acting. Losing roles happens

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Speaker 2: all the time. For her pr to talk about it,

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Speaker 2: flopping and saying SS did it for the people. None

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Speaker 2: of the people want to see someone who hates them

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Speaker 2: parading around pretending to be us. You're a Cretan and

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Speaker 2: you ruined the film period. Christy deserved better.

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Speaker 1: Now some of that within there. As a woman who

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Speaker 1: has been very outspoken in terms of LGBTQ plus rights

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Speaker 1: in the community, I could see why she might be

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Speaker 1: upset and offended, especially as an actress who knows more

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Speaker 1: about that industry and how she's viewed in roles and

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Speaker 1: what she's experienced behind the scenes. That part, I can

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Speaker 1: get the Cretan part, and calling her names, and then

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Speaker 1: she doubled down and came back and called her a psychopath.

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Speaker 1: Those things, I guess take away from the message and

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Speaker 1: the messenge juror when it seems so personal and mean.

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Speaker 2: It absolutely was mean and unnecessary, I think is a

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Speaker 2: huge part of it. And perhaps I would even say

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Speaker 2: most people completely disagree with what Ruby Rose wrote there

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Speaker 2: in terms of Sidney Sweeney ruining the movie. In fact,

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Speaker 2: Christy Martin herself has been extremely supportive. We can get

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Speaker 2: into that. And even among the reviewers who were kind

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Speaker 2: of met on the film, and it wasn't poorly reviewed

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Speaker 2: it was it was, It had decent reviews. But I

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Speaker 2: would say I have not read to date any actual

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Speaker 2: critic saying anything about Sidney Sweeney's performance other than it

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Speaker 2: was brilliant.

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Speaker 1: That's all fine. I completely respect Ruby Rose's opinion of

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Speaker 1: how Sidney Sweeney performed in this movie if she gave

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Speaker 1: it to me in some kind of context that I

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Speaker 1: know she knows better than I do. She is an actress,

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Speaker 1: She's been in movie, she's been in show, so she

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Speaker 1: can give me an assessment of Sidney Sweeney and her

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Speaker 1: performance in there better than I can do myself. But

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Speaker 1: she didn't. She just said she ruined it. She's terrible,

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Speaker 1: she's a Cretan and it just seemed very personal. But

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Speaker 1: she can have her opinion that part all respect if

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Speaker 1: she didn't like it, and also not respect that a

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Speaker 1: straight woman is playing this LGBTQ plus icon.

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Speaker 2: By the way, I had to look up what the

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Speaker 2: word cretan meant. I didn't even know a lot of

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Speaker 2: people did apparently, and apparently it is a slur.

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Speaker 1: Stop there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's considered able list it's a slur, and when

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Speaker 2: you look it up, it's not something that you're supposed

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Speaker 2: to say out loud or write down anywhere in terms

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Speaker 2: of modern decorum. That is considered a curse word of

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Speaker 2: bad word. And in one outlet they actually even and

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Speaker 2: this is what got me thinking, put stars like, if

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Speaker 2: you had someone drop the F bomb public putting it

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Speaker 2: in a publication, they would have to somehow, you know,

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Speaker 2: not actually spill out the word. They were doing that

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Speaker 2: with that word, which was interesting. So then yes, Rose

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Speaker 2: followed up saying, first, I regret writing that and should

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Speaker 2: have just said psychopaths. So then she, just as you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: doubled down on her insults towards Sidney Sweeney, So yeah.

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Speaker 1: That part has to be mentioned. I don't think you've

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Speaker 1: seen anything where Sidney Sweeney directly responded to Ruby Rose,

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Speaker 1: but she responded to the fact that the movie didn't

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Speaker 1: do well and talked about we don't just do it

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Speaker 1: for money. We don't just do it for numbers. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: we do it for impact. That was the part that

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Speaker 1: set off Ruby Rose exact idea. Do you have Sidney

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Speaker 1: s I have her Instagram.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it was, but I thought it was it was

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Speaker 2: with heart. So this is what Sweeney or Sidney Sweeney

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Speaker 2: put up on Instagram regarding the poor showing of Christy.

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Speaker 2: I am so deeply proud of this movie, Proud of

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Speaker 2: the film David made, proud of the story we told,

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Speaker 2: Proud to represent someone as strong and resilient as Christy Martin.

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Speaker 2: This experience has been one of the greatest honors of

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Speaker 2: my life. This film stands for survival, courage, and hope.

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Speaker 2: Through our campaigns, we've helped raise awareness for so many

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Speaker 2: affected by domestic violence. We all signed on to this

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Speaker 2: film with belief that Christie's story could save lives. Thank

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Speaker 2: you to everyone who saw, felt, and believed and will

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Speaker 2: believe in this story for years to come. If Christy

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Speaker 2: gave even one woman the courage to take her first

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Speaker 2: step towards safety, then we will have succeeded. So yes,

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Speaker 2: I'm proud. Why because we don't always just make art

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Speaker 2: for numbers. We make it for impact, and Christy has

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Speaker 2: been the most impactful project of my life. Thank you, Christy,

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Speaker 2: I love you.

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Speaker 1: I can believe that and take her at a word.

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Speaker 1: For the most part of it, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of it looks very pr polished. You can say you

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Speaker 1: don't do it for numbers all day long, but the

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Speaker 1: company that put fifteen million dollars into this film is

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Speaker 1: not happy that. In me one point three they didn't

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Speaker 1: want to make money.

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Speaker 2: And they put it out in two thousand theaters, which

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Speaker 2: is a huge wide release.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so some of that will read as pr dusting,

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Speaker 1: and that's fine to me. But I have to take

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Speaker 1: her at her word and believe that that, yes, this

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Speaker 1: is getting a story out. And look, Sidney Sweeney has

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Speaker 1: been the middle of controversy, but what sells controversy. See

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Speaker 1: now this movie is going to get a second or

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Speaker 1: third look and some attention. Thank you, Ruby Rose.

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Speaker 2: Keep talking shit, absolutely because I hadn't even heard of

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Speaker 2: this movie, and part of the reason why it didn't

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Speaker 2: do so well, according to a lot of folks who

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Speaker 2: have written articles on this, is that there just was

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Speaker 2: no promotion of it. There was one Billboard one shot,

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Speaker 2: and I hadn't even heard of this movie until Ruby

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Speaker 2: Rose brought it up. So yes to that, exactly, I

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Speaker 2: get that. But listen to the You know, we did

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Speaker 2: Critics Consensus every time we did our Horror Halloween deep cuts,

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Speaker 2: our countdown to Halloween. We had a bunch of movie

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Speaker 2: reviews on all of the horror movies we loved, and

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Speaker 2: we were going to Critics Consensus on Rotten Tomatoes to

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Speaker 2: talk about what critics said of the movie. I thought

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Speaker 2: this was really interesting, the one that they wrote about Christy.

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Speaker 2: While Christy falters in tonal cohesion and emotional impact, it

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Speaker 2: remains a compelling showcase for Sidney Sweeney's transformative performance, grounding

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Speaker 2: a mythic genre and raw personal storytelling. It only got

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Speaker 2: sixty five percent among the critics, but look, this is

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Speaker 2: a crazy number. I don't think I've seen this before.

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Speaker 2: Audience score on Rotten Tomatoes ninety seven percent. The people

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Speaker 2: loved it who saw it just not that many.

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Speaker 1: Do you know how many were there?

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Speaker 2: They were about fifty, okay, and they were all glowing.

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Speaker 1: Hey that's fine, Yes, that's fine.

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Speaker 2: Even Variety Magazine said, Sydney Sweeney is already well on

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Speaker 2: her way to becoming a movie star. But this may

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Speaker 2: go down as the film in which she fully expresses

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Speaker 2: the soul of a movie star, which is this. She

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Speaker 2: completely becomes the character and in doing so becomes us.

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Speaker 1: And again, people, this is that you have seen. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why Charlie's their own comes to mind.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: When the academy loves when you physically transform for a role.

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Speaker 2: Especially a beautiful woman known for her looks, this is.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so fine. You can call it oscar bait, you

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Speaker 1: can call it what it want, but you can. I

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Speaker 1: am not no, no matter what. I can imagine what

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Speaker 1: it feels like for a woman her size to have

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Speaker 1: to put on thirty five frickin' pounds.

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Speaker 2: She talked about it. She because she said, I didn't

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Speaker 2: fit into any of my clothes. I'm usually a size

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Speaker 2: twenty three in jeans like she is thin, but I

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Speaker 2: was wearing a size twenty seven.

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Speaker 1: She wrote.

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Speaker 2: My boobs got bigger. My butt got huge. It was crazy.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, but it was amazing.

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Speaker 2: I was so strong, like crazy strong. But yeah, she

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Speaker 2: said she had to eat weight train, kickbox weight train. Again.

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Speaker 2: This is all while acting, too, so this was a

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Speaker 2: physical transformation.

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Speaker 1: We shouldn't have read that part. Everything was going so good.

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Speaker 2: So she said that her boobs got big. I thought

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Speaker 2: they were already. Oh they got bigger.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, it was bigger. And my waist went up to

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Speaker 1: a twenty seven. That's thin.

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Speaker 2: I've been a twenty seven for a lot of my life.

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Speaker 1: We get it. That's fine. It just sounded kind of funny.

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Speaker 1: I'm not knocking her for that, but it sounded funny.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, she had to go through that, And yes,

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Speaker 1: you do just or of credit on top of doing

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Speaker 1: the acting. And look, I am now curious about this

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Speaker 1: movie because of all this controversy. But it does bring

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Speaker 1: up all those questions road as we talk about can

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Speaker 1: a straight person play a gay actor? Ken is that okay?

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Speaker 1: I think the industry is kind of getting away from that,

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Speaker 1: not making as big of a deal of it, or

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Speaker 1: keeping it a little quiet because people do get upset

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Speaker 1: about that. I don't know what the right thing is.

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Speaker 1: But it's an issue. You can't reverse it. You can't

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Speaker 1: say then a gay actor shouldn't play us straight.

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Speaker 2: This is about marginalized community.

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Speaker 1: Can do it?

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Speaker 2: Yes, this is about marginalized communities, and look I do.

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Speaker 2: It does seem that the trend has been for directors

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Speaker 2: casting directors to look for actors who actually live with

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Speaker 2: whatever that character might be experiencing. If it's you know,

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Speaker 2: it's a situation with a physical attribute or an emotional attribute.

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Speaker 2: They are trying to give people who are actors those roles,

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Speaker 2: those opportunities. I don't know what the right answer is.

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Speaker 2: You know, I am the last person who should probably

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Speaker 2: weigh in on whether that's correct or not. I do

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Speaker 2: think that this isn't going away.

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Speaker 1: Obviously a straight actor can do a fine, damn good

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Speaker 1: job is playing a gay character, and in fact, they

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Speaker 1: could maybe out act a gay actor in that saying role.

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Speaker 1: That's a matter of a skill set. Now I'm not

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Speaker 1: taking away. Yes, this gay actor is informed in life

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Speaker 1: in a way that the straight actor never will be.

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Speaker 1: But can we just say that automatically you're straight, so

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Speaker 1: you can't play this character.

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Speaker 2: I would tend to say that I think we should

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Speaker 2: be a little more open minded about these types of things.

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Speaker 2: And when we come back, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: what Christy Martin herself, the woman who this biopick was about,

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Speaker 2: had to say about Sidney Sweeney playing her role, what

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Speaker 2: she thought of her performance, Because shouldn't that be more

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Speaker 2: important than what Ruby Rose thinks. Continuing our conversation about

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Speaker 2: this brawl that Ruby Rose has brought out of the

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Speaker 2: ring and into the spotlight, talking about Sidney Sweeney, Sydney

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Speaker 2: Sweeney's portrayal of boxing legend Christy Martin, who is lesbian,

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Speaker 2: who was a survivor of domestic violence, and Ruby Rose

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Speaker 2: took issue with Sidney Sweeney playing that role, and not

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Speaker 2: just took issue with, but blamed her and her portrayal

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Speaker 2: for the reason why Christy did not do well at

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Speaker 2: the box office and did horribly actually like one of

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Speaker 2: the worst openings ever for a movie on two thousand

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Speaker 2: plus screens.

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Speaker 1: Oh but it's also a movie that didn't get a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of promotion. It's about domestic violence, it's about abuse,

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Speaker 1: and about a woman who's not a household name. Those

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Speaker 1: things could have attributed to exactly.

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Speaker 2: In fact, a lot of folks said if they just

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Speaker 2: had changed the name of the movie, perhaps because people

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Speaker 2: don't know Christy Martin's name, so to name a movie

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Speaker 2: Christy doesn't really draw people in.

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Speaker 1: It should have been called Sidney Sweeney plays a Boxer

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Speaker 1: fled to the theater, right, all right?

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Speaker 2: So yes, we know that Ruby Rose had some scathing

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Speaker 2: things to say about and hurled at Sidney Sweeney. But

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Speaker 2: Christy Martin, who this film is all about, and had

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Speaker 2: a huge role in actually being a part of the film.

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Speaker 2: They promoted the film together and she applauded publicly Sidney

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Speaker 2: Sweeney's performance, and this is what she had to say.

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Speaker 2: I am actually very shy, very reserved, and want to

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Speaker 2: help everyone I possibly can. In the boxing world, I

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Speaker 2: wanted to knock everybody out. So I have those two

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Speaker 2: parts of my personality. And I think that's why Sidney

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Speaker 2: Sweeney is doing such an awesome job, because she got

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Speaker 2: to be this totally different person than none of you expected.

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Speaker 2: So how is that to add to the debate of

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Speaker 2: whether or not you can play a role that might

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Speaker 2: be completely opposite of who you are.

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Speaker 1: I think Christy Bardon is. I mean, she has every

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Speaker 1: incentive to be very complimentary. I'm sure, she was a

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Speaker 1: part of the process and was very excited to have

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Speaker 1: a star as big and beautiful as Sidney Sweeney playing her,

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Speaker 1: so that you expect a certain amount of that. But

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Speaker 1: it would have been very negative to hear Christy Martin

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Speaker 1: say I can't believe they chose this woman.

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Speaker 2: And actually Martin addressed the fact that Sidney Sweeney is

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Speaker 2: as gorgeous as she is. She said, she said that

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Speaker 2: Sidney Sweeney. She said, I wasn't the beautiful, sexy Sidney.

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Speaker 2: She was the tough, rugged Christy in this movie. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's awesome. So she was applauding the fact

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Speaker 2: that Sidney Sweeney basically took off her or I guess

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Speaker 2: was able to transform beyond being the beautiful bombshell that

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Speaker 2: she is and certainly has become to be known.

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Speaker 1: As most women can transform and beyond the beautiful bombshelves

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Speaker 1: that they are. It's not hard.

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Speaker 2: Most people don't wake up like that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not taking away from Sidney SWAITI I'm just I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And look, Christy Martin, this I actually was looking

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Speaker 2: into her. I'd never heard of her to your point

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Speaker 2: before this movie, but just to see what she accomplished

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Speaker 2: in the fact that even perhaps this controversy beyond the

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Speaker 2: movie is bringing her into the spotlight. She was a

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Speaker 2: daughter of a coal miner. She went on to become

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Speaker 2: the first woman signed to a promotional contract by big

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Speaker 2: boxing promoter. We know his named Don King, and we know,

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Speaker 2: oh wow that you just see him when you hear

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Speaker 2: his name Don King, and the first female boxer to

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Speaker 2: appear on the cover of Sports Illustrated. I had no idea,

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Speaker 2: but she suffered from incredible bouts of domestic violence, and

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Speaker 2: so look, I know that the focus might have been

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Speaker 2: perhaps a little bit on the fact that she is

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Speaker 2: a out and she's a lesbian, but certainly this is

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Speaker 2: also about surviving domestic violence. You could argue, do you

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Speaker 2: have to know what that's like? Should should you be

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Speaker 2: a survivor of some kind to be able to portray

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Speaker 2: somebody who's gone through something like that. I just don't

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Speaker 2: know where it ends.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about white actors playing in blackface?

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Speaker 2: That's really funny, obviously, Obviously I don't even really need

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Speaker 2: to respond to that. That's a huge no, obviously, and

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Speaker 2: Tropic Thunder is still you. But no, honestly, you have

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Speaker 2: brought that up multiple times. What funny, it's funny? Why

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Speaker 2: is that funny?

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Speaker 1: Though, let me tell you why it's funny, because you

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Speaker 1: don't have a white actor playing a black character. The

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Speaker 1: character in Tropic Thunder was a white guy who put

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Speaker 1: himself in blackface so he could make a movie. So

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Speaker 1: it's not like he got in there to play. They're

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Speaker 1: actually playing on the fact of what we're talking about here.

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Speaker 1: They make a joke about it. In this movie. He

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Speaker 1: plays an actor that they give the role to because

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Speaker 1: it's for a black person, but they get it to

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Speaker 1: a white person who changed his face black. That is

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Speaker 1: actually I didn't put that together.

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Speaker 2: I get what you're saying, but they're making a parody

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Speaker 2: of the controversy.

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Speaker 1: But if you have a movie, if you have I

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Speaker 1: don't know, Black Panther and they pick a Timothy Shallom

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Speaker 1: to do part four and they put him in blackface,

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Speaker 1: that's offensive because he's playing a character who is black.

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Speaker 1: Robert was totally different. It wasn't offensive in the least bit.

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Speaker 2: But still hearing Robert Downey Jr. Not just have the

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Speaker 2: black face, but then speak in a very over the

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Speaker 2: top stereotypical black vernacular that was hard for me. I

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Speaker 2: was watching you like, is this okay that I'm listening

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Speaker 2: to this and laughing at him?

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Speaker 1: Totally offensive and awful and uncomfortable. What did I tell you?

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Speaker 1: One of my favorite movies as a kid. It was

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Speaker 1: a movie called soul Man like white guy who couldn't

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Speaker 1: pay for Harvard so he did blackface so he could

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Speaker 1: get a minority skyt Okay. That movie was out. All

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Speaker 1: these things happened. Robert Downey Junior get a god damn

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Speaker 1: Oscar nomination for this movie, and Oscar for a white

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Speaker 1: guy who did such a good job of playing a

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Speaker 1: black man. That part was offensive. The Oscar part was

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Speaker 1: offensive because all of you all looked, Oh, yeah, he

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Speaker 1: is nailing being a black guy. That's not us. That's offensive.

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Speaker 1: I can get offended. I could be mad, I can yell,

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Speaker 1: and I can scream because of where I sit. That's

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Speaker 1: why I'm trying to give Ruby Rose just a little

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Speaker 1: grace and how she might be fired up. She might

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Speaker 1: have reacted out of emotion. She might come back and

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Speaker 1: say that was too much. I don't know, but genuinely upset.

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Speaker 2: I can see, yeah, exactly, and I look at the

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Speaker 2: end of the days It brings up a lot of

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Speaker 2: different conversations. And as long as they remain conversations and

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Speaker 2: they're thoughtful and they're productive, and people perhaps leave space

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Speaker 2: in their mind for a for a perspective other than

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Speaker 2: their own, that's wonderful. It's just when you use language

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Speaker 2: like she used, that's when things get offensive from her

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Speaker 2: end and actually don't move the needle, but just end

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Speaker 2: up getting people riled up, and then just playing to

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Speaker 2: the political right versus left, you know, and just drawing stereotypes.

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Speaker 2: It's what you would think someone who maybe has experienced

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Speaker 2: some of that hate and some of those feelings of

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Speaker 2: being lesbian and being open and all of those, you know,

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Speaker 2: certain issues that come up with that, you'd think she'd

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Speaker 2: be more sensitive to not generalizing other people and.

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Speaker 1: The other We didn't talk about it as much, but

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Speaker 1: the whole part of her came out. She was a

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Speaker 1: Republican after the genes, the whole genes ad and she

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Speaker 1: brought that up as well. Can she's a Republican? What

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Speaker 1: was the line she used about playing one of us, Yes,

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Speaker 1: suggestion that you're hating what.

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Speaker 2: She said, None of the people want to see someone

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Speaker 2: who hates them parading around pretending to be us. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: it's something to consider, something to talk about. Just hopefully

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Speaker 2: we can do that using language other than what Ruby

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Speaker 2: Rose used. So thank you for listening to us. We

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Speaker 2: appreciate you as always. I'm Amy Robock alongside TJ. Holmes.

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Speaker 2: We will talk to you soon