1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Governor Gavin Newsom says Ron DeSantis 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: is fundamentally authoritarian. It's like the understatement of the year. 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: What a show. It's a show of shows we have 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: for you today. Senator Chris Murphy will stop by to 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: talk about why House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy will be 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: blamed for a government shutdown. Then we'll talk to neuroscientists 9 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: and author of Weaponized Lies how to think critically in 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: the post truth era, Daniel Leviton, about how to speak 11 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: to Trump followers in a way they will listen to. 12 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: But first we have Mother Jones, DC bureau chief and 13 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: author of American Psychosis, which is now out in paperback, 14 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: The One the Only. David Korn Welcome back, Too, Fast Politics. 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 2: David Korn, glad to be with you, Molly. I feel like. 16 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: I'm always delighted to have you on this podcast because 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: you're my body and also because politically I feel very 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: much aligned with you personally, and since we're both on 19 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: the opinion side, we can share our opinions. 20 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 3: It's nice to have freedom in America. 21 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: First, let's talk. Paperback of the book is out right now, 22 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: tell us the TLDR. 23 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. The book that I put out last year, American Psychosis, 24 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 3: A Historical Investigation and How the Republican Party Went Crazy, 25 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 3: is basically a narrative history of the relationship between the 26 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 3: Republican Party and far right extremism over the last seven decades. 27 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 3: The big takeaway it didn't start with Trump. From mccarthia 28 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 3: to the New Right, to the Southern Strategy, to Sarah 29 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 3: Palin to new Getridge to the Tea Party, all the 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 3: way up to Trump. The Republican Party has long tried 31 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 3: to exploit and encourage far right extremism, bigotry, paranoia, conspiracy 32 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 3: mongering to get votes, to win over supporters. Trump just 33 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 3: paid it cent a stage. A lot of this have 34 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 3: been kept in the shadows for these decades, and established 35 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 3: Republicans didn't want to really acknowledge this the way you 36 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 3: don't want to acknowledge the crazy Uncle. Trump put it 37 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 3: right center stage and made this the essence of the 38 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 3: core of the Republican Party. You know, you had Fox 39 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 3: and Rush Limbaugh and Tea Party and Glenn Beck and 40 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 3: others who had been encouraging this for years and Trump 41 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 3: was sort of the logical extension of that. And so 42 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 3: the book is out in paperback this coming week and 43 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 3: it's expanded and U this paperback so make you write 44 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 3: another chapter or two to give more you to get 45 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 3: it out there. It came out a year ago, and 46 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 3: it's still, unfortunately more relevant than ever because it seems 47 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 3: that Trump's hold on the party and this gravitational pool 48 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 3: of right wing extremism and paranoia and conspiracy and grievances 49 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 3: within the party has just gotten stronger and more intense. 50 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 3: He lost selection into as well as they expected to 51 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: do the Republicans in twenty twenty two, and still the 52 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 3: extremism of the party is the driving force that you 53 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: have people like round Dessantis, who thinks that you know, 54 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 3: they can they can score a becoming even more extreme 55 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 3: than Trump. The party can't break away from this because 56 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: essentially this is where the base is. This is where 57 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 3: the Republican Party is guided and been guided by its 58 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 3: base over the last seven decades. People want to understand 59 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 3: how we got to this point. And I think the 60 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 3: depth of the problem it's not about Trump. Trump's a problem, 61 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 3: but it's about the tens of millions of Americans who 62 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 3: have reached this point that Trump can then exploit them 63 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 3: and play them from Marx and Rubes. And they're not 64 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 3: going away even if Trump were to drop dead tomorrow 65 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 3: from too many big macs. 66 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: So I want to talk about this because this is 67 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: the fundamental problem. I think that the Republican Party finds 68 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: itself in right now, right and I mean they deserve it. 69 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: They did it to themselves. I think it's an important caveat. 70 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: They were so hungry for power they didn't care how 71 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: they got. But what they did was they created this 72 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: base that now has been tipped into unreality. And this 73 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: unreality based finds itself, you know, so dug in and 74 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: so committed to Donald Trump that they have decided. If 75 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: you look at the numbers, they believe that Donald Trump 76 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: won the twenty twenty election. They believe that he will 77 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: win again. They are occupying Earth two. So here's a 78 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: question for you. Let's just we have Donald Trump. Maybe 79 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: no label succeeds in getting a third party on the 80 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: ticket and Donald Trump wins. But if not, Donald Trump 81 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: is not going away. I mean, how will they ever 82 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: get these people to vote for anyone else? 83 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 3: More important Trump is isn't going right. It can continue 84 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 3: even without Donald Trump. You know, conspiracy theories give me 85 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 3: a good metaphor here. Don't like the tail chips can't 86 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 3: just have one, They lead from one to the other. 87 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: So you have Birtherism. With Trump, it turns into a 88 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 3: variety of theories about you know, conspiracy theories about the 89 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 3: deep state, and then it becomes an embrace of QAnon. 90 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 3: And then it's the big lie of the election. You 91 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 3: mentioned these people living on earth too, in a state 92 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 3: of onreality. Yes, you know, once you believe all these things, 93 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 3: once you've taken I don't know, the red pill, the 94 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 3: blue people, whatever, and you end up on me. Yet 95 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 3: up in the mainpix, you ain't coming back. I mean 96 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 3: how a few people can. But by and large you've 97 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 3: adopted a theology that unless you decide to break from 98 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 3: that theology, which is like leaving the church, which is 99 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 3: a hard thing for people to do, whatever their religion 100 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 3: might be, you're stuck there. And these people are going 101 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 3: to be stuck in this position of these Republican voters. 102 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 3: And so whether Mitch McConnell or Kevin McCarthy or any 103 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 3: of these more responsible established Republicans think they can steal 104 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 3: the party in another direction. They're wrong. They got here, 105 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 3: you know, they rode this tiger, and now the tiger 106 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 3: is running the asylum to mixed metaphors. And I think 107 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 3: the only hope they have is in some ways demographics. 108 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 3: You know, the Trump voters, you know, the seventy four 109 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 3: million Trump voters from West election versus the eighty one 110 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 3: million Biden voters are a lot older, they live in 111 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 3: less healthy parts of the country. I mean, these people 112 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 3: are not going to be persuaded to drop their position. 113 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 3: They're not going to drop these views until they end 114 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 3: up horizontal. And I think this is a long you know, 115 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 3: it's going to be a long transition period for the 116 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 3: Republican Party to basically burn out in a way on 117 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 3: these fevered, conspiracy driven politics the Trump embodies and fuels 118 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 3: and propels, and that there's no ways to sort of 119 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 3: just pull up on the throttle and level the plane. 120 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 3: This is a cruise missile that they've launched years ago, 121 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 3: and it's past the fail safe point. Oh that was 122 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 3: a good metaphor. 123 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: I'm redirecting you here. No labels. They are responsible for 124 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: some of these, maybe not all but some of these 125 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: very junkie polls that we're seeing out there, the ones 126 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: that say that people don't want Biden four hundred and 127 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: twenty six days before the election. But let's talk about them. 128 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: What is happening? Who are they, their donors? What is 129 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: the plan here? 130 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, before we switched to no labels, I would 131 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: be my polist would hate me if I didn't remind 132 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 3: people to buy the paperback version of Americans like ostis 133 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 3: and tell people that if you subscribe to my newsletter 134 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 3: or land you can get the book at a discount 135 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 3: if you go to Davidcorn dot com and sign up anyway, 136 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 3: But no labels, there's a lot of I think it's 137 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 3: fair to say, without being pejorative about it, hysteria. Sometimes 138 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 3: hysteria is justified about no labels. This group, this dark 139 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 3: money group, we don't know where all the money's coming from, 140 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 3: that wants to put on a third party candidate on 141 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 3: the ballot next year, with a lot of people, a 142 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 3: lot of Democratic strategists, a lot of never Trump Republicans 143 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 3: believing that this ticket, if led by Joe Manchin or 144 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 3: somebody else, would draw more votes from Biden than Trump 145 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 3: and could threaten Biden victory, particularly in key close swing 146 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: states like Georgia, Arizona, and all the other ones that 147 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 3: we know about. And so they say they're raising seventy 148 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 3: million dollars. They're not telling us where the money is 149 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 3: coming from. 150 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: But we think it's coming from a lot of Republicans. 151 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 3: I found a list of donors to this effort that 152 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 3: accounts for a couple million dollars, and you know which 153 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 3: I wrote about in Mother Jones, and that list leaned 154 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 3: heavily towards Republicans, included even some Trump donors. There were 155 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 3: some centrist, pro business type Democrats who have been funding 156 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 3: No Labels for years, long before this third party project 157 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 3: came along, and they're still giving money, some of these 158 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 3: Democratic backers of the past, but by and large this 159 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 3: group has been dominated by Republican funders. You have the 160 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 3: two heads of No Labels, the state party chapter of 161 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 3: No Labels in Colorado, both Republicans. One of them said, well, 162 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 3: if this ends up helping Trump, I don't mind. People 163 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 3: have been out there who are pro Trump. Even conservative 164 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 3: right wing radio host Hugh Hewitt just the other day said, 165 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 3: if No Labels helps Trump, which I think it is, 166 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 3: that's a good thing. They keep insisting that they don't 167 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 3: want to throw the election to Trump. And the person 168 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 3: who runs No Labels is a woman named Nancy Jacobson, 169 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 3: who used to be a Democratic fund under mainly for conservative, 170 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 3: moderate pro business Democrats. She's married to Mark Penn, the 171 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 3: former Democratic consultant who's been on the outs for the 172 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 3: Democrats for many years. 173 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 4: Now. 174 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: They're sort of trying to get back at the Clinton. 175 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: There's a lot of mini series subplots going on in 176 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 3: all this. It's really hard to figure out if this 177 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 3: is really what they're doing, if their aim is to 178 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 3: elect Trump, or if they don't care and their aim 179 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 3: is just to get in the mix and have influence 180 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 3: and scare the pants off other people and as a 181 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 3: form of revenge. That way, there's no logic to their math. 182 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: They keep saying that most of Americans don't want Trump 183 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 3: or Biden, but they think that most Americans want Joe 184 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 3: Biden or Larry Hogan. 185 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: Right, Joe Manchin. I mean what is interesting, and I 186 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: want to talk for a minute about this idea that 187 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: Joe Manchin is somehow more desirable than Joe Biden. Joe 188 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: Manchin is this single reason along with Kirsten Cinema, that 189 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: we don't have student loan forgiveness, right, we don't have 190 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: the Freedom to Vote Act, we don't have I mean, 191 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: those two are the reason why we don't have a 192 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: lot of stuff we have, and we have a Supreme 193 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: Court that is radically remaking this country. So I do 194 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: think it's worth thinking about, like, who is the Democrat 195 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: who would support Joe Manchin. Look, I think Joe Manchin 196 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: is power hungry and wants attention and wants money and 197 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: wants power, and that's where this is going, and that's 198 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: why he's decided that he wants to flirt with this. 199 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: Maybe he does it, maybe he doesn't. But I think 200 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: a good point is, like, if you can live with 201 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: being the person who re elects Trump and kills American democracy, 202 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: ask yourself if you can be that person, because you 203 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: will because history will look back on you, and they 204 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: will look back on you not fondly. And you may 205 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: be the thing that causes climate catastrophe that we are 206 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: on the edge of. You may be the thing that 207 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: ends American democracy And are you ready for that? And 208 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: I think that's a question Joe Manchin needs to ask 209 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: himself and Larry Hogan too. 210 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I broke the story, was it? I guess two 211 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 3: years ago now that Joe Manchin was thinking of leaving 212 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 3: the Democratic Party. It told people that he was considering 213 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 3: doing this, and then he denied that was the case. 214 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 3: But I had solid evidence and he backed off. This 215 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 3: is just purely a hunch. 216 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: There is not. 217 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 3: An uproar from the American public for Joe manchon presidency. 218 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 3: Let us Mary Ogan or John Huntsman, who John Huntsman 219 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 3: and who whoeverly is? People do these names that they're 220 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 3: being raised, But to be named in this way keeps 221 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 3: Manchin in the mix. He loves to be in the 222 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 3: center of attention. And Evan and asked whether he would 223 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 3: do this, he says, you know, he refuses to say 224 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 3: yes or no, which is a smart thing for a 225 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 3: politician to do, because if you were to say no, 226 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 3: people would say, oh, now, we don't have to pay 227 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 3: as much attention to Joe Manchin as Joe Manchin would 228 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 3: like us to pay. So I still think at the 229 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 3: end of the day, the end of this year, at 230 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 3: the beginning of next year, into the spring, when you 231 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 3: start doing these polls and you put Joe Manchin in 232 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 3: and he polls nine ten percent, and it looks like, 233 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 3: you know, it's clear that he'll take votes. You know, 234 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 3: if anti Trump votes away from Biden, that you know 235 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 3: he because of the reasons you just enumerated, maybe not 236 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 3: so much climate change. He's not going to go out 237 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 3: of his long storied political career as the guy who 238 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 3: elected Donald Trump to a second term. There are very 239 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 3: few people who run the third party here, a third 240 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 3: party boy or independent who end up being well reguarded afterwards. 241 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 3: Ross pro was a crazy person, John Anderson his career 242 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 3: and never went anywhere after nineteen eighty when he is 243 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 3: a modern Republican Iran and that so, I think Manchin 244 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 3: cares a lot about his reputation and his image and 245 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 3: may not go. 246 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 2: Now. 247 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 3: Will they find somebody else, some other person out there will. 248 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 3: Maybe they'll go to the rock, right. 249 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: The real problem with Nancy Jacobson and Mark Penn is 250 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: that they just want attention and money, and this is 251 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: a very good way for them to get it. 252 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's very dangerous though. It is playing with 253 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 3: fire because I'm not getting overwhelmed or upset by the 254 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: polls coming out now, but they do show that Trump 255 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: has a chance of regaining the wordhouse, and that there 256 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 3: is a great Graham Green line that it is nothing 257 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 3: like a hanging to concentrate the mind. That should parcentrate 258 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 3: our collective mind. Anybody who's not living in the unreality 259 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 3: of Trump world should recognize that Trump poses a profound 260 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 3: threat to American democracy. He's already told us the plan 261 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 3: to implement authoritarianism should he get back in. He wants 262 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 3: to pardon the January sixth insurrectionist writers and therefore encourage 263 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 3: more political violences embraced QAnon. I mean, it's all out there, 264 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 3: and so it seems to me. 265 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 5: That the number one priority now is to make sure 266 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 5: that doesn't happen, because if it does happen, then American 267 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 5: democraty can't deal with the student debt crisis, can't deal 268 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 5: with healthcare, can't deal with the product. 269 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: Can't deal with anything. All Right, So let's talk about Georgia. 270 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: Grand Jury says, perhaps we should indict David Purdue and 271 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: Kelly Laffler and Lindsey Graham. 272 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this is good. We'll seeing how the 273 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 3: system works. Trump and all his henchmen and hensch women 274 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 3: are out there always saying it's a deep state conspiracy. 275 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 3: It's against me, they're rigging the system, all these all 276 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 3: this bs. Well, now we see in Georgia there's a 277 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 3: two grand jury system. There's first a grand jury that 278 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 3: investigates and recommends possible indictments. Then there's a grand ury 279 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 3: that actually votes on these indictments. And so we're seeing, 280 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 3: well with the release right before we started recording this 281 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 3: of the recommendation that that first grand jury made of 282 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 3: people of persons who they thought should be indicted, and 283 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 3: it turns out, well, you know what, Fannie Willis, who 284 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 3: the Trump is attacking as a wild woman for going 285 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 3: for this case, decided not to take or the next 286 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 3: grand jury as well, not to take all these recommendations 287 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 3: and put forward an even more modest you know, it's 288 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 3: a sweeping indictment, but it's less sweeping than what this 289 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 3: first gen grand jury recommended and voted for. So Lindsey 290 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 3: Graham they thought they recommended and they voted to recommend 291 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 3: that he'd be indicted. Well, the second grand jury and 292 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 3: Fannie Willis is not. They have not indicted him. They 293 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 3: did not indict David Perdue and Kelly Leffler, who senators 294 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 3: at the time it seems well, great, this is how 295 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 3: it's supposed to work, and there was some degree of 296 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 3: prosecutorial grand jury discretion here. It wasn't that they just 297 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 3: took this long list and just got you know, put 298 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 3: out a wide net. We don't know what the reasoning 299 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 3: is behind the decision not to indict these people who 300 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 3: were recommended, and it could be a good case, it 301 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 3: could be a hard case to bring, but we do 302 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 3: know that she and the second grand jury would not 303 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 3: held bent to include everybody in everything that the first 304 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 3: jury recommended that and I think that shows some degree 305 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 3: of discretion, maybe modesty, and that the system is working 306 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 3: at as it should work. 307 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's certainly an important data point 308 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: that this is a real serious case that people are 309 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: taken very seriously and rico as a real charge that 310 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: we've seen Fanny Willis use before. 311 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is not going to convince Donald Trump or 312 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 3: anyone else, or is you know, millions of could followers 313 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 3: that this is a legitimate enterprise. But I think he 314 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 3: can reassure the rest of us that, you know, the 315 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,479 Speaker 3: system is working somewhat judiciously here. As an aside, it 316 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 3: is interesting to go back to twenty sixteen, and this 317 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 3: wonderful tweet on Lindsey. If we don't get rid of Trump, 318 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 3: he will destroy us all. And it seemed that there 319 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: are many people around Trump who are being destroyed, I 320 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 3: have been destroyed, and who are being indicted because they 321 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 3: followed him as dear leader. It seems for the time 322 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 3: being that Lindsey Graham has just escaped by his whiskers 323 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 3: on the same fate. 324 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and for that, you mean, well deserved, David corn. 325 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: I hope you will come back. 326 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 3: I will come back whenever you ask. 327 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: Chris Murphy is the junior senator from Connecticut. Welcome back 328 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, Senator Chris. 329 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: Murphy, thanks for having me. Glad to be back. 330 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: We're back. It's the fall. The House is coming back. 331 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: They're led by incredible Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who has plans 332 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: to impeach Biden on what. He's not sure, but he'll 333 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: think of something. I mean, what is it like to 334 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: be a Democratic senator in whatever this is. 335 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 2: That's a great question, and we don't have enough time. 336 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 2: Let me say this, I am glad to be a senator, 337 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 2: not a congressman, because well, we have deep disagreements in 338 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: the United States Senate with our Rebelican colleagues. There are 339 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: fewer total complete jackasses in the Senate than there are 340 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 2: in the House, and few are arcifists. Right, So we 341 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 2: passed all the budget bills out of the Appropriations Committee 342 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 2: before the recess. We had pretty broad Republican and Democratic 343 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 2: buy in on all of them. And now we're faced 344 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 2: with this House of representatives who see to kind of 345 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 2: change their ransom demand every day. We'll pass up if 346 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 2: you let us impeach Joe Biden, will pass a budget 347 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 2: as long as we abandon Ukraine. 348 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 4: Right. 349 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: We don't really know what they want, but it's something 350 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 2: really reckless and irresponsible, and we will hopefully once they 351 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 2: get back into town, flesh out a little bit more 352 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 2: as to what they need in order to just keep 353 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 2: paying the bills of the federal government. Past September thirtieth, one. 354 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: Of the things I wanted to ask you about was 355 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: we have Mitch McConnell. He is again not my choice, 356 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: but is probably the most effective majority leader Republicans have 357 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: ever had in the Senate. Right, he got three Supreme 358 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: Court justices where he really only Donald Trump really should 359 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: have only had won, which is a life to which 360 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: has radically remade our country and the image of terrifying 361 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: Handmaid's tail esque dystopia. Republicans have decided that even though 362 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: they are furious with Joe Biden for being eighty, they 363 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: are are and not having any health issues. Particularly, they 364 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: are totally set with McConnell, who seems to have quite 365 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: serious health issues, because he's probably better than anyone else 366 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: they can replace him with. 367 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, first of all, is you know this. 368 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 2: They are furious with Joe Biden because he's actually enacting 369 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 2: progressive priorities. He is a lethally effective United States president 370 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 2: who has defeated some of the most significant, most powerful 371 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 2: interests in Washington, the drug industry, the oil industry, the 372 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 2: gun industry, and has set Republicans on their heels. Republicans 373 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 2: know they can't complain about those things because passing gun 374 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 2: safety legislation and lowering prescription drug costs and doing something 375 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 2: about climate are really popular, so they try to invent 376 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 2: other things to be mad about, like his age. But yes, 377 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 2: it is true, mister McConnell is of similar age and 378 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 2: is actually showing signs of decline. Video McConnell is pretty scary, 379 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 2: but I interact with him and see him interact with 380 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 2: others on a pretty regular basis. My sense is that 381 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 2: those are pretty isolated incidences, and he still remains pretty 382 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 2: effective in the Senate. But I generally don't give my 383 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 2: Republican colleagues advice on who should leader. They'll make that themselves. 384 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, but you know it is just to 385 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: take a moment here to talk about this idea, Nancy Pelosi. 386 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: I don't see a lot of talk about like how 387 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: I mean, she really was. I feel I don't see 388 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: enough talk about how effective she was. And you see 389 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: all of the potential pitfalls that she avoided, Kevin McCarthy 390 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: stepping into each one of them. 391 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's easier to avoid those pitfalls when you're 392 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:53,959 Speaker 2: working with a caucus, the Democratic caucus that believes in 393 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 2: small D democracy and our serious human beings. Like these 394 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 2: guys are not serious human beings like people the speaker 395 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: McCarthy are leading. They're basically just interested in being Twitter 396 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 2: celebrities and owning the Libs and going out drinking at 397 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 2: night with their buddies, like they're not actually interested in legislating. 398 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 2: So basical BIZZI is an exceptional leader, and she did 399 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 2: things that nobody expected, so she deserves all the ploducts 400 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 2: she gets. But it also is easier to run the 401 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 2: Democratic caucus than it is to run the Republican caucus. 402 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: So you are in a period that we're Democrats are 403 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: passing a ton of legislation right, and we're ships has 404 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: incredible tentacles, from prescription drug negotiation, to credits for evs, 405 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 1: to building bridges. I mean that's inflation production. Then you 406 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: have the Chips Act. You have all sorts of really 407 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: interesting stuff. I've been really impressed to the Biden administrations 408 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: trying to get have meetings with Japan in South Korea 409 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: to try to prevent China from being able to sort 410 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: of do what they do. Talk to me about where 411 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: this is and is there a place for other stuff 412 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: that you guys can get through. 413 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, the list of accomplishment is so long when it 414 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 2: comes to the legislative victories of this administration and the 415 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 2: previous Congress that we start to forget some of the 416 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 2: most significant ones. You named many of the highlights, but 417 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 2: on that list is also the protection of gay marriage 418 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 2: from judicial fiat. On that list is one of the 419 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 2: most significant investments in veterans care in the history of 420 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 2: the country, making sure everybody was exposed to toxic chemicals 421 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: gets veterans and it fits the burn pits, right, do 422 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 2: you also reference there's just a long series of pretty 423 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 2: significant foreign policy victories here as well, and the really 424 00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 2: important subtle work of building our allies in Asia, not 425 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: just Japan in South Korea. But it's also the deeper 426 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 2: partnership we now have with Australia does isolate China and 427 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 2: make it a little bit more likely that we would 428 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 2: be able to win a conflict or more importantly, prevent 429 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 2: a conflict with China. So it's just nice to have 430 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 2: an adult in the White House, and sometimes we don't 431 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 2: do a good enough job of explaining everything that has happened. 432 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 2: So what can we do moving forward? I mean, it's 433 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 2: a limited list because you've got these arsonists in charge 434 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 2: of the House of Representatives. So it seems like these 435 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 2: days our work is basically just trying to keep the 436 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 2: lights on, don't default on the debt, don't shut down 437 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 2: the government. Are there maybe some areas of overlap on 438 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 2: the next iteration of industrial policy? Maybe could we do 439 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 2: something on social media regulation? Possibly there are some narrow 440 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 2: areas of agreement potentially with the House. But man, they're 441 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 2: unfortunately pretty narrow because those guys are literally not interested 442 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 2: in governing. They just like to kind of show up 443 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 2: and have the trappings of the office some very little 444 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: else intrigued step. 445 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 1: So let's talk for a minute about this incredible Tommy 446 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: Tuberville situation. I have a Republican kid. I have one 447 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: kid as a Republican. I think we actually dropped him 448 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,719 Speaker 1: when he was little, and that he should be okay 449 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: if but we did actually drop him. 450 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 2: But he's I don't know what my kids are yet, 451 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 2: so I'm not well. 452 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: Prepare yourself emotionally. But my one Republican kid, very involved 453 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: in the Civil Air Patrol, very involved in the Armed services, 454 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: wants to be ROTC. And he went to encampment this summer, 455 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: which is like a sort of military training camp that 456 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: the military runs and on an Air Force base. He 457 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: became friends with a lot of kids whose parents are 458 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: the military. But anyway, the net net of the story 459 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 1: is the military is really mad at Tuberville and that Tubervil. 460 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: They really see that this is Tuberville's doing. Can you 461 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: talk to us about this? 462 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 2: So this is really messing with the security of the country. 463 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 2: By the end of the year, if Tubberville's conduct continues unabated, 464 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 2: you will have ninety percent of all military promotions having 465 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: been blocked, meaning you will have hundreds, close to maybe 466 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 2: one thousand senior military members in the wrong jobs. That 467 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 2: really messes with your ability to run the military. If 468 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 2: everybody is stuck in the wrong job and you have 469 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 2: all sorts of leader ship positions that are vacant. This 470 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 2: is not philosophical, This is practical in terms of the 471 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 2: impact it has, especially if we. 472 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 3: Were to get into a conflict. 473 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 2: I mean, maybe now, given that we are mainly supplying 474 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 2: arms to the Ukrainians, you can find a way to 475 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 2: manage this, but who knows when the next sort of 476 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 2: crisis begins Republicans can stop us. I mean, the fact 477 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 2: of the matter is, not a single Republican the Senate 478 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 2: has come out and openly criticized Tuberville. There's no evidence 479 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: that McConnell nor any of these lieutenants have put the 480 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 2: screws to Tuberville and said, hey, there's going to be 481 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: consequences if you keep this up. And so my hope 482 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 2: is that Republicans start to put pressure on him, or 483 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 2: choose to join us in changing the rules of the 484 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 2: Senate so that we can move some of these promotions 485 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 2: through budged together. The rules now require you do every 486 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: promotion separately, and right now we have what four hundred 487 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 2: of these things pending. Every promotion takes two or three days. 488 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 2: There's just no way we can do that. So maybe 489 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 2: we can budge them all together, but that takes Republicans 490 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: to agree with us, and it's up to them whether 491 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 2: they want to allow Tubberville to put the national security 492 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 2: of the country in continued jeopardy. 493 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: It's a really good point that Mitch McConnell. I mean, 494 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: we know that Mitch McConnell can pretty much make these senators, 495 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: especially people like Tommy Tarberville, who has not much upstairs, 496 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: and that guy, they can make him do whatever they want. 497 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 2: He's on TV every night with a cheshire Cat grin 498 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 2: because he knows not only is he not getting pressure 499 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 2: from Republicans, he's getting pats on the back from Republicans. 500 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 3: And why is that right? 501 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 2: We should have said this at the outset, But what 502 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 2: is Tubberville's motivation here? He is he's holding all these 503 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 2: promotions hostage to try to force President Biden to an 504 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 2: act an anti abortion, anti choice policy in the military 505 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 2: deny the ability of women in the military to be 506 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 2: able to access full reproductive health care services. And the 507 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: reason that he is not getting pushedback from his Republican 508 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 2: colleagues is because their number one priority is not the 509 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 2: security of the nation. It is banning abortions nationally. Their 510 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 2: number one agenda item is to tell women what healthcare 511 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 2: they can get and what healthcare they can't get, and 512 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 2: they are willing to do any in order to enact 513 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 2: that anti women agenda. And so that's what you're seeing 514 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 2: here is that Tommy Jabberville is getting away with this 515 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: because he is fronting the number one priority issue for Republicans, 516 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 2: which is banning abortions nationwide. 517 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: Unbelievable. And what I think is so amazing about that 518 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: issue is that it is wildland popular. Speaking of wildly 519 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: and popular Republican policies. Where are we with the guns? 520 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 2: I mean, we're making really important progress. And I got 521 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 2: to tell you, having been a part of this movement 522 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: for ten years, embarrassed that I didn't work on this 523 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 2: issue before Sandy Hook. But I've been at the center 524 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 2: of it since Sandy Hook, and there were a lot 525 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 2: of days during those last ten years where I generally 526 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 2: wonder are we ever going to be the Internet right? 527 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 2: Thirty years since we passed anything the INTERRA opposed is 528 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 2: that our future. And last year we proved in fact 529 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 2: that we've built movement that is now more powerful than 530 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 2: the NRA, and that we have the ability, when the 531 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 2: time is right, to get just enough Republicans to pass 532 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 2: laws that crack down on illegal gun ownership, even if 533 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 2: those laws are opposed by the NRA. And what we're 534 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 2: seeing is the Biden administration not surprisingly do the right thing. 535 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 2: So there's a really small change that we made in 536 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 2: the BILLI passed last year. It just updates the definition 537 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 2: of gun dealer because what we found there are a 538 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 2: lot of people who are selling guns but are not licensed, 539 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 2: and that means they're not doing background checks. We updated 540 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 2: that definition, and the Biden administration just implemented that change 541 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 2: last week in a way that is pretty expansive. That 542 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 2: is likely going to require thousands, tens of thousands of 543 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 2: people who are right now selling guns online and a 544 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 2: gun shows who don't do background checks to now do 545 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 2: background checks, and that is an absolute game changer. The 546 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 2: administration could have just sat on the sidelines and kind 547 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 2: of milk toast implementation, but they did. They went as 548 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,239 Speaker 2: far as they could legally go in putting out a 549 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 2: rule that updates the definition of what it means to 550 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 2: be a gun dealer. And the result is going to 551 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 2: be a lot less homicides because a lot less dangerous 552 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 2: people are going to own weapons. So obviously, the bill 553 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 2: we passed last year's not everything they need to do, 554 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: but the Biden administration is doing as much as they 555 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 2: possibly can do with the legislation that we passed, and 556 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 2: that's great news. 557 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, that is great news. And I think that it's 558 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: great to hear some optimism from you about this because 559 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: it does feel like just pretty scary. Do you think 560 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: there's any chance of raising the purchase age? 561 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, I think the short answer to what 562 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 2: is possible is pretty easy. We are going to pass 563 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 2: the universal background checks, we are going to increase the age, 564 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 2: and we are going to eventually ban assault weapons, and 565 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 2: all of that is going to happen. We are marching 566 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 2: inexorable direction towards tougher gun laws. Maybe it's going to 567 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 2: take five to ten years to complete that attenda going 568 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: to complete it. And I know that because I've just 569 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 2: seen the way that Republicans have changed their behavior. Not 570 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 2: all of them, but now ten or fifteen of them 571 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 2: in the Senate, including Mitch McConnell, are more afraid of 572 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,719 Speaker 2: Mom's demand action than they are of the NRA because 573 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 2: they look at these cities where they get ten percent 574 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 2: of the vote and the suburbs where now they're getting 575 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 2: forty percent of the vote, and they realize that if 576 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 2: they don't start showing that they're not Neanderthals on the 577 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 2: issue of gun violence, they are going to continue to 578 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 2: lead votes in really important places. 579 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it does seem like that the public 580 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: sentiment is with Democrats on those. 581 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 2: And it's slower than it should be. But if you look, 582 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 2: especially when it comes to these presidential elections, at what 583 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 2: are the motivating issues that turn out low propensity voters, 584 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 2: guns is at the top of the list. So why 585 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 2: is Joe Biden talking about assault weapons all the time, 586 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 2: even though it's really unlikely that we're going to pass 587 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 2: an assault weapons ban during his first term. It's because 588 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 2: he knows. It's because he's the smartest politician in the party, 589 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: and he knows that being clear that a democratic priority 590 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 2: is passing in the sault weapons ban is what will 591 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 2: turn out a lot of young voters in the upcoming election. 592 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 2: And Republicans know that too, They've seen the polling. It 593 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 2: doesn't mean that they're going to get right on assault weapons, 594 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 2: but it does mean that when the opportunity presents itself 595 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 2: on something like the bipartisan Safer Communities act, more of 596 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 2: them than ever before are likely at to sign up. 597 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: Now you're sort of in this period. Do we think 598 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: there's going to be a government shutdown? I mean, is 599 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: right to be anxious about this, And historically these government shutdowns, 600 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: I mean, two of the things that are on the 601 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: Republican House agenda right now, a government shutdown and an 602 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: impeachment for seemingly no reason, are pretty unpopular. 603 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 2: I love these interviews. I don't even know this guy, 604 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 2: but I see him on like my news clips occasionally. 605 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 2: Cala Murray's like the head of the Oversight Committee, right, 606 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 2: He's like awesome. It's like he gets repeatedly asked, have 607 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 2: you found any evidence of wrongdoing by the President Biden? 608 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,919 Speaker 2: And every single time he like he takes a little 609 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 2: while but I ma interers and know we found nothing. 610 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 2: Do you still want to impeach him? Absolutely? So yeah, I 611 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 2: think everybody should be worried about a shutdown because this 612 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 2: is just a nightmare of a ruling coalition in the 613 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 2: House of Representatives. I think the one silver lining here 614 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,439 Speaker 2: is the fact that everybody in America knows who would 615 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 2: be at fault if the government shut down. In previous 616 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 2: shutdown prices, it was kind of up for grabs. 617 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 3: Is going to be starting gonna get blamed? 618 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 2: Is it Republicans? No? Now everybody knows that McCarthy's in 619 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 2: charge of a bunch of lunatics, and so McCarthy knows 620 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 2: that he knows that if the government shuts down that 621 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 2: he'll get blamed and that that'll hurt them politically. And 622 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 2: that's in part I think why he cut a deal 623 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 2: on the debts, feeling that was pretty weak. I mean, 624 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 2: at least when it comes to the priorities that he articulated, 625 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 2: because he knew if we defaulted on the debt, nobody 626 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 2: would be clout about who was responsible. They would know Republicans. 627 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 2: So that's the one silver aligning is that ultimately McCarthy 628 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 2: may agree to a continuing resolution because he knows, so 629 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 2: get blamed. 630 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that definitely does seem like how it's 631 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: going to go. And I mean, who knows if he's 632 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: smart enough to know that. 633 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 2: And it helps also, Molly, that we have been working 634 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 2: together in the Senate. So the Senate, as I mentioned earlier, 635 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 2: has passed all the appropriations bills in a bipartisan way, 636 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 2: lots of Republicans supporting these bills. So he doesn't have 637 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,320 Speaker 2: the excuse that, oh, Democrats aren't coming to the table 638 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 2: or nobody's listening to Republicans. No, in fact, the Senate 639 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 2: has shown that, like, we can do this. It's just 640 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 2: your Republicans the ones that are being obstinate Chris. 641 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: Murphy, Senator Murphy, thank you for joining us. 642 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 2: I hope you'll come back always fun. Thanks. 643 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: Thanks. Daniel Leviton is a cognitive psychologist, neuroscientist, and author 644 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 1: of Weaponize Lies, How to Think Critically in the Post 645 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: Truth Era. Welcome to Fast Politics, Daniel. 646 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 4: Well, thank you for having me. 647 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: This is like you are Jesse, our producer's absolute sweet 648 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 1: spot in the world. Cognitive psychologist neuroscientist writes on move 649 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: on music comes into the Trump era and you are 650 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: writing about Trump, so talk to us about how you 651 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: made this evolution. 652 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,760 Speaker 4: Oh, what an interesting question. I don't think of myself 653 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 4: as writing about Trump per se. I try to walk 654 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 4: the line of being a political in that I think 655 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 4: science should be a political I think that science exists 656 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 4: in the public trust. It should be free. Everything I 657 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 4: say in my books I put out there in interviews 658 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 4: and in other ways so that people don't have to 659 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 4: buy the book if they don't want to. I used 660 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 4: nice to have it all collected one place. But I 661 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 4: think that science should exist outside the realm of politics. 662 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 4: But you're right, it's hard to not get political when 663 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 4: you talk about news these days. It's almost inescapable. And 664 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 4: the way I got into this was that I had 665 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 4: read a book when I was in school called How 666 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 4: to Lie with Statistics in the forties. I just loved 667 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 4: that book. It's a short, little book and it's irreverend. 668 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 4: It's kind of like if Kurt Vonnegut had been a statistician, right, 669 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 4: And I started teaching a course back in nineteen ninety 670 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 4: nine on critical thinking to my college undergraduates, the seniors 671 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 4: who are about to go off of the world. We 672 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 4: used that book and part of their assignment was to 673 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 4: collect examples from newspapers and then later on social media 674 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 4: where if people were really using statistics or making claims 675 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 4: that were distorted or just flat out wrong, but maybe 676 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 4: in a sneaky way so that the average person might 677 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 4: not notice it. 678 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: Oh, that is interesting thread, that needle for me. 679 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 4: Well, so from that, you know, I had this big box, 680 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,240 Speaker 4: this archived file box, full of these wonderful examples that students. 681 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 3: Had given me. 682 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 4: In my book The Organized Mind, which came out in 683 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 4: twenty fourteen, I devoted a chapter to critical thinking. By 684 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 4: twenty fifteen, when the election cycle was starting and we 685 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 4: first started hearing about and encountering fake news. That is, 686 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 4: I should define that prior to that, there was the news. 687 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,720 Speaker 2: It wasn't like an alternative news. 688 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 4: There was the news. I mean, I grew up in 689 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,479 Speaker 4: the era of Huntley Brinkley and Cronkite, and you got 690 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 4: the news, and an opinion was something different. Around the 691 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,879 Speaker 4: time that cable news channels came to be, an opinion 692 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 4: was broadcast on news channels or ostensible news channels. It 693 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 4: became difficult to separate opinion from fact and opinion from news, 694 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 4: and that led to something of an emerging crisis in 695 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 4: twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen about what is news? And 696 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,280 Speaker 4: so I wrote this book called A Field Guide to Lies, 697 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 4: which was basically me wanting to write how lie was statistics, 698 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 4: but that had already been written. 699 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 2: And that's where I. 700 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 4: Try to package together a lot of strategies might aim there, 701 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 4: Molly was. I wanted the average person, you know, well, 702 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 4: like an eighth grade education, to be able to know 703 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,399 Speaker 4: how to make sense of competing claims. I didn't want 704 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 4: to be in the business of telling people what to think, right. 705 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: But just sort of how to be able to see 706 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: what's true. 707 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 708 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,399 Speaker 4: Another way to look at it was there's some professions 709 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,280 Speaker 4: that train people in how to sort out the truth 710 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 4: from the bs. One of those is in as to 711 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,760 Speaker 4: give a journalists, which is a profession with training. Another 712 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 4: is police detective, another is lawyer, another is scientist. And 713 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,799 Speaker 4: we spend a lot of time training people in these 714 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 4: professions to be able to sort through and figure out, well, 715 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 4: wait a minute, that doesn't add up. The average person 716 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 4: doesn't get that, and I think they should. I think 717 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 4: starting in eighth grade, the average person should have that 718 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 4: same training. That's what it means to have an informed electorate. 719 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, is the problem here that we are not thinking clearly? 720 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: Or is the problem here that we are just not thinking, 721 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: or what is our problem here? 722 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 2: What is your problem? 723 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 4: I would say, however we wanted to find the problem. 724 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:49,399 Speaker 4: It's exacerbated by the fact that the Internet gives us 725 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 4: easy access to lots of stuff. And on the Internet, 726 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 4: as that old New Yorker cartoon goes, nobody knows if 727 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 4: you're a dog. 728 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 2: Right right. So on the Internet it's hard to. 729 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 4: Know whether something is actually verified or not. You put 730 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 4: something into a search engine, you google it as it were, 731 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 4: and the answers you get maybe true, they may not be. 732 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 4: And that puts a big burden on all of us. 733 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 4: Not proposing the Internet should be regulated necessarily, I'm just 734 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,719 Speaker 4: saying that we now have a burden. We didn't have 735 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,720 Speaker 4: a generation a go, and so the problem is most 736 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:30,720 Speaker 4: of us are unprepared to evaluate every claim that comes 737 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 4: in in a systematic fashion and try to figure out 738 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 4: if it's true. We tend to use shortcuts like, well, 739 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,279 Speaker 4: my friend told me that, or I read it on 740 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 4: the internet, or they couldn't publish that if it wasn't true. 741 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,720 Speaker 4: There's a naivety there. And also, you know, to our defense, 742 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,360 Speaker 4: it's burdensome to have to question everything. It's no fun. 743 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 4: It makes you the DeBie down or at a party. 744 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: H that's true. It's funny because my husband sent me 745 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 1: this photograph he took of a raccoon eating pizza out 746 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,759 Speaker 1: of the trash in the park, and I was like, 747 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: is that real? 748 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 3: Right? Maybe it was Nate. 749 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 1: That was my first comment. 750 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,320 Speaker 2: I was, because that real. 751 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: So here's my question for you along this line. So 752 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,799 Speaker 1: I believe nothing is real because I spend a lot 753 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 1: of time on the Internet. Will the next generation, or 754 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: these slightly savvier people who are just slightly younger than us, 755 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:29,879 Speaker 1: or the ones that grow up on the internet, will 756 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,280 Speaker 1: they just be like that? Will they just believe nothing 757 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: is real? As opposed to the older generation, which believes 758 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 1: that everything is real. 759 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 4: Oh well, what a horrible dichotomy. 760 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: Not to paint such broad strokes, But it doesn't it 761 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 1: seem like that's where this is headed. 762 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,399 Speaker 4: Hopefully, I would say the bigger problem isn't that we're 763 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 4: going to have a generation of people who believe that 764 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 4: nothing is real. I fear a generation of people, half 765 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 4: of whom will believe things that ain't so right and 766 00:42:58,520 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 4: they will believe them. 767 00:42:59,600 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 3: Further. 768 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,239 Speaker 1: Well, that's where we are now, right, Yeah, there is. 769 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 4: No talking to people you disagree with. It doesn't matter 770 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 4: if you're a publican or a Democrat, far left, far right, centrist, 771 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 4: even off that two ended spectrum. You know, you're a libertarian, 772 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 4: what your Green Party, whatever it is. If you disagree 773 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 4: with somebody, it's very difficult these days to have a 774 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 4: productive conversation because we don't even agree on the facts. 775 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 4: And it's become kind of a tired trope that I 776 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 4: keep coming back to. But as Senator Daniel Patrick moynihan said, 777 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 4: you're entitled to your own opinions, you aren't entitled to 778 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:38,320 Speaker 4: your own facts. 779 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: So, I mean, I think that this gets back to 780 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: this idea of the death of institutions. Right, So you 781 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,240 Speaker 1: have a percentage of this country that does not believe 782 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: in elections, or in government, or in teachers. There is 783 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 1: this sense in which part of this country, you know, 784 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,880 Speaker 1: they don't believe doctor right, they don't believe they have 785 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: no trusted members of the community. So where does that go? 786 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: I mean, how do you get facts if you just. 787 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,880 Speaker 4: Know one I am on the left side of the 788 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 4: political spectrum unabashedly. I worked for the election of Ted 789 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 4: lu and for Rocata and Adam Schiff in California. I 790 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,239 Speaker 4: worked the campaign for Jerry Brown for president. I'm just 791 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 4: putting out there where I sit so that your listeners 792 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,680 Speaker 4: can evaluate what I have to say with for knowledge. 793 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 4: But I would differ with you. I don't think that 794 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 4: half the country doesn't believe in elections. They believe very 795 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 4: much in elections, right, they just don't believe in the 796 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 4: outcome of elections. The outcome they don't like. It's not 797 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 4: the outcome they don't like necessarily, they just don't believe 798 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,560 Speaker 4: that the outcome that we got was honest and fair 799 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 4: and just and to their credit. I mean, I think 800 00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 4: it's demonstrably true that Trump lost the election. There's no 801 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 4: legal room there. But our country has been in this 802 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:09,959 Speaker 4: situation before. You may remember that Democrat Samuel Tilden led 803 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,840 Speaker 4: to Republican Rutherford Hayes by a quarter of a million 804 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,959 Speaker 4: votes nationwide, but a special commission awarded their electoral votes 805 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,760 Speaker 4: to Hayes in eighteen seventy seven. You had cases between 806 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,719 Speaker 4: eighteen seventy four and nineteen oh four where sixty two 807 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,759 Speaker 4: times the House majority of either party phonied up a 808 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,319 Speaker 4: challenge to a member the opposition who'd won by a 809 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 4: few voights votes, and they tossed them out, and Representative 810 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 4: William McKinley of Ohio was expelled by the Democratic majority 811 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 4: after winning reelection. So this kind of stuff has happened before. 812 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 4: I don't mean that that's a good thing, but we've 813 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,959 Speaker 4: somehow managed to recover. The difference is everything seems more 814 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,840 Speaker 4: fast paced. In the eighteen eighties, it took days or 815 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 4: weeks or months for these things to people to form opinions. 816 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,200 Speaker 4: Now we formed them in seconds, and we've got ar 817 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,359 Speaker 4: Fifteen's right. I don't but I mean, yeah, right, I. 818 00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: Mean no, I think that's a real problem. And again, 819 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:18,120 Speaker 1: I mean there have been times in American life when 820 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:23,399 Speaker 1: we have seen problems that we could not solve, right 821 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 1: the post Civil War times when Americans were really a 822 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 1: country that needed to unite, or even I think about 823 00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 1: like after the murder of JFK or MLK. I mean 824 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: there were times, or the Vietnam War. But this feels 825 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 1: a little bit different because it's like this sort of 826 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,839 Speaker 1: power vacuum where Republicans are just sort of giving all 827 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: the power to Trump, and Trump seems completely uninterested in 828 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,000 Speaker 1: any kind of harmony. Yeah. 829 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,840 Speaker 4: I think you're right in that there have always been 830 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:02,600 Speaker 4: politicians who are out for themselves. Yeah, and there were 831 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,880 Speaker 4: sometimes presidents who put their interests ahead of the interest 832 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 4: of the country in small ways. Nixon, Yeah, but Nixon 833 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 4: ultimately resigned, Gore ultimately decided not to fight for the 834 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,600 Speaker 4: sake of harmony of the country. You know, the word 835 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 4: decorum keeps coming up in these conversations. There was a 836 00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 4: level of decorum and civility that is missing in the 837 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 4: Trump campaign, which is a kind of take no prisoners. 838 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 4: And the thing that disturbs me about the Trump presidency 839 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 4: is all norms went out the window. And of course 840 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,440 Speaker 4: you can say, well, you know, politics has become corrupt, 841 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,759 Speaker 4: we need to shake things up. But I mean, this 842 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:48,680 Speaker 4: is a whole other level of insanity. Clearly, to my mind, 843 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,920 Speaker 4: if he were to win again, would be emboldened to 844 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,760 Speaker 4: really press every possible button to self destruct government and 845 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 4: any kind of regulation or constraints. I think he's a 846 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:08,080 Speaker 4: kleptocrat at heart and an unprincipled one, and it worries me. 847 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm just saying stuff that a lot of 848 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 4: other people have said, and you didn't have me on 849 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:13,839 Speaker 4: to talk about that. 850 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:15,960 Speaker 1: I think, no, no, right, all right. 851 00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 4: I think the question is, you know, where do we 852 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:19,040 Speaker 4: go from here? 853 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:19,759 Speaker 3: Right? 854 00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 1: How do we get back to that? I mean, how 855 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,320 Speaker 1: do we get these people back? 856 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,839 Speaker 4: Have you ever read any Lee McIntyre. 857 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:27,480 Speaker 5: No. 858 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,759 Speaker 4: He's a wonderful philosopher who has written a series of 859 00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,520 Speaker 4: books on the post truth era and what led to it, 860 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 4: and he traces the current predicament we're in back to 861 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:42,400 Speaker 4: the tobacco companies with their false information campaigns in the fifties, 862 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,719 Speaker 4: hiring their own scientists to say that tobacco was harmless, 863 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,759 Speaker 4: that sort of thing. And so he's one of many 864 00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 4: voices saying that Trump is not the problem per se. 865 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,640 Speaker 4: Trump is the symptom of a generalized mistrust of scientists 866 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,040 Speaker 4: and of facts and fact wielders. And part of the 867 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:02,080 Speaker 4: problem is that people who are college educated democrats like 868 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:07,000 Speaker 4: me are often perceived by the UnCollege educated members of 869 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:12,000 Speaker 4: the right as disrespectful towards them, as finger wagging, and 870 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:17,040 Speaker 4: as elitist. And what McIntyre McIntyre actually went to a 871 00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:18,759 Speaker 4: conference of the flat earthers. 872 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:20,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and. 873 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,680 Speaker 4: He writes about it, and he's wonderful if flat earthers 874 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,160 Speaker 4: they really exist, and there's a lot of them, and 875 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,520 Speaker 4: they really believe that the rounders is the government conspiracy. 876 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 2: And apart from that. 877 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,960 Speaker 4: They don't seem to hold any other weird conspiracy beliefs. 878 00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,960 Speaker 4: It's not like they're all tin foil hat feet people. 879 00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,319 Speaker 4: This is this one thing they can't let go of. 880 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,239 Speaker 4: And actually they had a website for a while that 881 00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 4: said uniting flat earthers from around the globe, but I 882 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,759 Speaker 4: think somebody hipped them to that that was not the right. 883 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,240 Speaker 1: These people do get discredited. I mean a great example 884 00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,880 Speaker 1: is COVID, Right, they said COVID is going to go away. 885 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,600 Speaker 1: It's going to be rocking and rolling by Eastern you know. 886 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,319 Speaker 1: But what I think is interesting is that despite this 887 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 1: evidence that these people are not telling the truth, their 888 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,400 Speaker 1: followers continue following. 889 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,719 Speaker 4: Why is that, Well, I think the followers dispute the evidence, 890 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,440 Speaker 4: and so I think there are two things. One of 891 00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:21,360 Speaker 4: the things I appreciate about Lee McIntyre's approach, which gets 892 00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,240 Speaker 4: back actually to Reagan and Tip O'Neil. You have conversations 893 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,920 Speaker 4: with people you disagree with, and the way to do 894 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,120 Speaker 4: it is to not start by saying you're wrong, but 895 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,400 Speaker 4: to listen to them and hear what they have to 896 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,959 Speaker 4: say and try to find some common ground. I've sat 897 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:41,920 Speaker 4: down with people who I think hold views that will 898 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:46,000 Speaker 4: harm this country imminently, in the process of talking to them, 899 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 4: just calmly and not allowing it to devolve into name calling, 900 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,640 Speaker 4: I find that in many cases we want the same things. 901 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,520 Speaker 4: We want the same things with the country. We want 902 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,760 Speaker 4: we want security, you know, again outside aggressors. We want 903 00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,160 Speaker 4: a better life for our kids. We want healthcare for everyone. 904 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:09,960 Speaker 4: We want you know, equality. What we disagree about is 905 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,160 Speaker 4: how to get there right. But we don't disagree on 906 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,040 Speaker 4: our values. We disagree on the tactics or the strategies. 907 00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,920 Speaker 4: And that's a starting point. It's a wonderful starting point. 908 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,320 Speaker 4: I was making calls for the Democratic Party for the 909 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,480 Speaker 4: last presidential election, and you know, I would call people 910 00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:28,719 Speaker 4: and say, do you know where your precinct is or 911 00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,480 Speaker 4: you know you're voting place and such. I got this 912 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,720 Speaker 4: one guy in Florida and he says, oh, you're calling 913 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,520 Speaker 4: me because I'm on the Demo. I'm registered as a Democrat. 914 00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,560 Speaker 4: I said, well, that's right, I'm calling I got the 915 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,320 Speaker 4: list from the Democrats. He says, well, I'm voting for Trump. 916 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:43,880 Speaker 2: So I said, all right, that's fine. 917 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 4: You know where to go to vote? Do you know 918 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,520 Speaker 4: what hours it's open? And he says, you understand I'm 919 00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,040 Speaker 4: voting for Trump, don't you? And I said that is 920 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,799 Speaker 4: your right as a citizen. I'm not here to tell 921 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,920 Speaker 4: you who to vote for. I just want to make 922 00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,480 Speaker 4: sure that you get to the polls, that you get 923 00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,520 Speaker 4: to vote, and that your vote is counted, because if 924 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,520 Speaker 4: you're going to complain about things and you didn't vote, 925 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:09,120 Speaker 4: you're kinda the ice and we're not talking. We talked 926 00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,879 Speaker 4: for forty minutes, and my supervisor was going nuts because 927 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:13,600 Speaker 4: I'm supposed to make, you know, like a call every 928 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,680 Speaker 4: ninety seconds, right. I just heard what he had to say. 929 00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:24,760 Speaker 4: And it turns out his whole family are Democrats, large family, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, cousins, kids. 930 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,200 Speaker 4: None of them would listen to him. They just all 931 00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,319 Speaker 4: thought he was a crank. And I said, I see 932 00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:31,960 Speaker 4: your point. Yeah, there's dysfunction here. 933 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,719 Speaker 3: This is bad. This is bad. At the end of 934 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:34,279 Speaker 3: the call, he. 935 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,480 Speaker 4: Said, Wow, nobody has listened to me. I'm going to 936 00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,520 Speaker 4: go vote and I'm going to vote for bide. We 937 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,399 Speaker 4: listen that we don't make them feel stupid, because they're 938 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,719 Speaker 4: not stupid. You know, a lot of times they want 939 00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:45,840 Speaker 4: to find common ground. 940 00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:50,759 Speaker 1: It's incredibly self destructive. Thank you so much for joining us. 941 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:51,759 Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back. 942 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:53,160 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me. 943 00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:56,719 Speaker 3: There a moment. 944 00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,839 Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon joined. 945 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:04,680 Speaker 3: So, mister Trump, Ronald Decantis, and Vivike the Fake all 946 00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:08,520 Speaker 3: went down to an Iowa football game and was that fun? 947 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,280 Speaker 1: So when I saw this, I thought that it wasn't 948 00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:17,000 Speaker 1: real because it seemed too good to be true. Basically, 949 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:23,240 Speaker 1: the Vake, ron de Santis, and Donald J. Trump all 950 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:27,399 Speaker 1: went to an Iowa football game together and there they 951 00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:31,719 Speaker 1: discovered that there are some people in Iowa who love 952 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,080 Speaker 1: them and some people in Iowa who are just desperate 953 00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,360 Speaker 1: to give them the finger. We saw lots of pictures 954 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,480 Speaker 1: of Trump getting the finger and also De Santis getting 955 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:48,799 Speaker 1: the finger, and we also saw some iconic booing. So 956 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:54,480 Speaker 1: U that is our moment of fuckery. That's it for 957 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,400 Speaker 1: this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, 958 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,359 Speaker 1: and Friday to hear the best minds and politics makes 959 00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,680 Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, 960 00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,960 Speaker 1: Please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 961 00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,040 Speaker 1: And again thanks for listening.