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Speaker 1: With the details of the worst shooting in US history unfolding,

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court left its biggest gun rights case on

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Speaker 1: the shelf today, not saying whether it would grant or

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Speaker 1: deni review of a case in which the Florida Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court upheld a law banning people from openly carrying firearms

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Speaker 1: in public. In d C, another setback for officials and

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Speaker 1: their efforts to enforce the city's strict limits on carrying

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Speaker 1: concealed guns. In July, a three member panel of the

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Speaker 1: d C Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a law

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Speaker 1: which requires an applicant to show good reason for needing

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Speaker 1: to carry a concealed weapon violate the Second Amendment. The

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Speaker 1: DC Attorney General asked the full Court of Appeals to

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Speaker 1: rehear the case, but the court declined without any explanation.

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Speaker 1: Joining us now is a renowned expert on the Second Amendment,

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Speaker 1: Adam Winkler, a professor at u c l A Law School. Adam,

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Speaker 1: does this order mean that none of the judges even

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Speaker 1: asked for a vote on the rehearing? Um? Well, it's me.

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Speaker 1: It's sounds from our reports that none of the judges

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Speaker 1: asked for rehearing as far as we know. UM, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of surprising, and light of the fact that the

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Speaker 1: d C Circuit has a majority of pointees from Democratic

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Speaker 1: presidents and President Obama put several people on the court,

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Speaker 1: one might expect, given what we've seen in previous circuits,

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Speaker 1: that Democratic appointees would be more likely to take this

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Speaker 1: case on bunk and reconsider UH decisions striking down discretionary permitting.

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Speaker 1: So it was kind of surprising what we saw from

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Speaker 1: the d C Circuit. Let's go back to July and

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Speaker 1: explain what the reasoning of the three member panel was

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Speaker 1: in ruling it the law violated the Second Amendment. Well, sure,

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Speaker 1: What the court said was that the Second Amendment is

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Speaker 1: not limited to the home. Although the Supreme Court in

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Speaker 1: the Heller case held you have a right to have

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Speaker 1: a handgun in your home, UM, the question still remains

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Speaker 1: whether you have a right to have a handgun outside

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Speaker 1: of your home, and the text of the Second Amendment

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Speaker 1: seems to suggest that you do. It says you have

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Speaker 1: a right to keep and bear arms, bearing arms being

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Speaker 1: to carry a firearm. UH. And the Court said that

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Speaker 1: dcs good cause discretionary permitting, like the similar laws in

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Speaker 1: effect in Los Angeles and New York and several other

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Speaker 1: major cities work as effective bands on possession of firearms

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Speaker 1: in public because so few people can obtain a permit.

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Speaker 1: And talk about how other circuit courts have addressed this issue,

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Speaker 1: This issue has come before several other circuits, and in

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Speaker 1: the end, every circuit but the d C Circuit has

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Speaker 1: upheld discretionary permitting UM. Most recently, the Ninth Circuit in

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Speaker 1: the Peruta case in an on Bank ruling held that

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Speaker 1: discretionary permitting was constitutionally permissible. That means there is now

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Speaker 1: a circuit split and the Supreme Court, which is avoided

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Speaker 1: taking a carry case for some time, may be forced

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Speaker 1: now to finally address the issue. And why has the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court been reluctant to address the issue of whether

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Speaker 1: the Second Amendment applies outside the home? And how well?

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Speaker 1: We don't really know. The justices who are reluctant to

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Speaker 1: take such a case haven't really explained it. We do

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Speaker 1: know that we've had denials sort of descents from the

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Speaker 1: denial assert and carry cases from the likes of Justices Gorsas,

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Speaker 1: Alito and Thomas, and before Gors justice Scalia suggesting that

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Speaker 1: UM some of the other conservatives on the Court, such

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Speaker 1: as Chief Justice John Roberts or Justice Anthony Kennedy, have

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Speaker 1: not been willing to take one of these cases. It

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Speaker 1: only takes four votes to accept cert UH, and there

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Speaker 1: haven't been four votes there yet for a carry case.

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Speaker 1: The the gun rights groups have have tangled in court

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Speaker 1: for years over the district's gun laws and explained some

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Speaker 1: of the fights and how it led to the or

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Speaker 1: the court fights and how it led to the landmark decision. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's right. So Washington, d C. Has been the focal

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Speaker 1: point of so many gun battles around the Second Amendment UH.

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Speaker 1: And indeed it was DC's ban on handguns that was

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Speaker 1: struck down by the Supreme Court in the landmark Heller case,

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Speaker 1: which was the first to read the Second Amendment to

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Speaker 1: clearly and unambiguously protect an individual right to bear arms.

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Speaker 1: One of the interesting things that we might see, UH,

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Speaker 1: is that DC might not appeal even this ruling by

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Speaker 1: the d C circuit Um striking down their concealed carey policy.

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Speaker 1: In back in two thousand and seven, d C was

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Speaker 1: urged by gun control advocates not to appeal the ruling

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Speaker 1: striking down their handgun band for fear of getting a

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Speaker 1: ruling like Heller. Indeed, that ruling did happen, and it

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Speaker 1: may cause DC officials to be a little circumspect about

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Speaker 1: sending another case to the Supreme Court. So you think

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Speaker 1: it's likely to at and we'll know within days that

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Speaker 1: that d C will not appeal this. I wouldn't say

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Speaker 1: it's likely. I think the smart money is that DC

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Speaker 1: will appeal this. But I'm sure there are those in

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Speaker 1: the gun control community who are hoping that d C

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Speaker 1: does not appeal the case for fear of getting a

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Speaker 1: nationwide ruling that strikes down discretionary permitting in places like

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles and San Francisco and New York City. In

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Speaker 1: light of what's happened in Las Vegas and and across

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Speaker 1: the country in different cases. What what is the current

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Speaker 1: state of the battle between the n r A, n

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Speaker 1: r A and gun and advocates against guns. Well, sure,

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Speaker 1: I think that to figure out who's winning that battle

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Speaker 1: requires us to know which playing field we're looking at.

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Speaker 1: If we look at the federal level, there is no

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Speaker 1: question the n r A is winning. They prevented universal

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Speaker 1: background checks from being adopted after Town and now the

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Speaker 1: Anlray can count allies as in a majority of both

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Speaker 1: Houses of Congress and in the White House, so we're

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Speaker 1: not likely to see any new restrictive gun laws passed

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Speaker 1: at the federal level. If we turn our attention to

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Speaker 1: the state level, however, the story is much more nuanced

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Speaker 1: and complex. We've seen very significant gun laws, restrictive gun

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Speaker 1: laws adopted in states that cover about half of the

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Speaker 1: nation's population since Newtown, and we may see a renewed

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Speaker 1: push for more gun control laws, successful push for gun

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Speaker 1: control laws at the state level. Can you tell me

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Speaker 1: about the Florida case that the Supreme Court has put

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Speaker 1: on the back burner right now? We don't know whether

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Speaker 1: or not they're going to take it or not. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there is a Florida case that's on the back burner,

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Speaker 1: and i'd be interesting to see whether the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: has any interest in taking any Second Amendment case in

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Speaker 1: the wake of this week shootings. You know, we like

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Speaker 1: to think that the Court is immune from the headlines

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Speaker 1: and that the interpretation of the Constitution is done only

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Speaker 1: by light of text and history and structure. But the

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Speaker 1: truth is, what's happening in the public sphere does affect

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Speaker 1: the justices and I think that these kinds of shootings

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Speaker 1: do affect their desire to rule on things like the

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Speaker 1: Second Amendment. In a net Florida Supreme Court upheld a

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Speaker 1: law banning people from openly carrying firearms in public? Is

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Speaker 1: that right in the Supreme Court didn't take it well

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Speaker 1: with The Supreme Court has not yet taken it yet.

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Speaker 1: It is apparently still on the schedule for the Justice

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Speaker 1: to decide whether to take but apparently they have not

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Speaker 1: taken it well. We're gonna have to wait and see,

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Speaker 1: but not too long because I believe it's it's seven

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Speaker 1: business days from thursdays turned down by the d C

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Speaker 1: Circuit of Appeals that will know whether or not they

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Speaker 1: are going to appeal to the Supreme Court. Thanks as

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Speaker 1: always for being on Bloomberg Laws. Play her to have you.

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Speaker 1: That's the expert on the Second Amendment, Adam Winkler. He's

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Speaker 1: a professor at u c l A law school,