1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mark mass Show, 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: where we're always talking about the decentralized revolution, how the 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: world is changing right before our very eyes as we 4 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: look at it through the lens of politics, finance, and technology. 5 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: Of course, that technology is always Bitcoin, the decentralized technology 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: that's changing the world. And you know, I like to 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 1: bring to you some interesting guests. You don't have to 8 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: listen to me talk all the time, and that's what 9 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: I have for you today. I'm sitting down with Morgan Richard. 10 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: She is a financial planner, yes old school legacy, a 11 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: financial planner. She's worked with Origin Wealth Advisors. She's the 12 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: host of the Bitcoin for Advisors podcast. She's the second 13 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: half of Pierre Richard, who we had on just recently 14 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: as well. But Morgan, thanks so much for joining me today. 15 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me Mark Man. 16 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: We always get into so many good conversations before we 17 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: start recording, so let's go ahead and just jump right 18 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: into it. 19 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: But before we jump into the deep endo. 20 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: The pool sort of where we were before, let's maybe 21 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: start just like a little bit higher up and think 22 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: about for a minute, you know, being a financial planner, 23 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: financial advisor, why do people need to have a personalized 24 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: financial plan. 25 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. So I think most people 26 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 3: don't really want to think too much about their finances 27 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 3: because we want to do more important things with our life, right, 28 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 3: Like we want to have families, we want to be 29 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 3: part of our community, we want to have a place 30 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 3: in the world, we want to think about things creatively 31 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 3: and you know, expand ourselves spiritually. And if you think 32 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 3: about that, finances aren't really on that long list of 33 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,639 Speaker 3: what's important to people, but finances weave its way into 34 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 3: every single one of those categories. And whether that's because 35 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 3: money is just it's a source of value, right, and 36 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 3: that we're able to put value on certain things and 37 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 3: pay for that, and it's a proof of work in 38 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 3: a way, right where people they charge whatever it is 39 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 3: that they're going to charge for a good or service 40 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 3: that somebody else would value, or it's just that we 41 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 3: really do live in this financialized world as a result 42 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 3: of you know, decades and decades of continued financialization of things. 43 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 3: I think it's a combination of the two for sure, 44 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 3: and that because of that, taking a deep look at 45 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 3: your finances, where you want to go, where you are 46 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 3: now and where you would like to be and where 47 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 3: you've been really in the past is going to help 48 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 3: make informed decisions in the future that will lead you 49 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 3: down a responsible path. 50 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I find it odd. I agree with everything you said, 51 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: but I do find it sort of odd that, like 52 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: people will. 53 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: Spend so much time making money. 54 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: So, you know, school obviously, continued education, you know, university 55 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: a lot of money and time and continued university education, 56 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: and then you know they're going to spend all this 57 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: time in their job. They're going to you know, potentially 58 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: try to you know, climb up sort of that corporate ladder, 59 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: make more money. They're working over time. I mean, they 60 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: put so much effort into making money and then once 61 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: the money's made, they just like forget about it. 62 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: Kind of a thing. 63 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: Seems kind of weird, but I guess yeah, absolutely, yeah, 64 00:02:58,440 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: And I guess a lot of it though, was then 65 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: given it to somebody else. 66 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 3: Right, Well, in a way, right, there are a lot 67 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: of things that people can do themselves to help set 68 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 3: themselves up to be in a better place. So the 69 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 3: first thing, right is you spend all this time, like 70 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 3: you were saying, making the money, and then the second 71 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 3: thing is making sure that you're saving properly, and so 72 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: for most people that's going to be at least twenty 73 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 3: percent of their pre tax income. It obviously depends on 74 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 3: where you've started, like what you've started at, right, If 75 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 3: you inherited money, then maybe you can save less than that. 76 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 3: If you have a negative net worth, right because you 77 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 3: spend a lot of money getting student loan debt and 78 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 3: so forth, then yeah, you're going to want to maybe 79 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: save more than that twenty percent number. But on average, 80 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 3: twenty percent of pretext income is where people need to start. 81 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 3: I think where it gets kind of hairy is that 82 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 3: twenty percent of pretext income is actually really difficult to do, 83 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: especially in an inflationary environment. And so what happens is 84 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 3: that people they get on some sort of spending track 85 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 3: and then they increase spend expenses as their income goes up, 86 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 3: because you know, oh, I'm working so hard, I deserve it, 87 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 3: I can have these things, or oh my kid needs this, 88 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 3: or my spouse needs that, or we have to you know, 89 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 3: do whatever X, y Z thing that somebody comes up 90 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 3: with to do. And then from there, it's kind of 91 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 3: like how the government they'll increase expenditures, but they never 92 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 3: really cut anything back and so things get seemingly get added, 93 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 3: but things don't get taken away. And so in life 94 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 3: everything is trade offs, right, So when people do that 95 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 3: in their personal finances, what happens is that they just 96 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 3: generally save less or they accumulate debt, but they don't 97 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 3: really stop to think about what's going on. And so 98 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 3: I think if people were able to just sit back 99 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 3: and really look just kind of at basic finances, like 100 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 3: of what's coming in, what's going out, many many people 101 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 3: would be in a much better situation. 102 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 103 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: I think of money sort of like time to time 104 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: is money, right, money is time, But you think about 105 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: like time and money are sort of the same in 106 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: a sense, well lots of senses. But I can either 107 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: at the end of the month wonder where the heck 108 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: did all my money go? Or where did all my 109 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: time go? Or we can plan in advance where we 110 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: want our time or where we want to spend our 111 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: time and money. And to your point, yeah, most people 112 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: just completely avoid that. I want to just hit hit 113 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: one more point real quick on this. So you talked 114 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: about personalized financial advising. So most people, though, are probably 115 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: just going through their work plan, so they're four A 116 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: one K mutual fund whatever. Right, So they're like pulling 117 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: out of their paycheck and someone else is sort of 118 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: administering that without really taking into account. 119 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 2: Their personal situation. 120 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: Is that sort of what you think the traditional path 121 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: of most people is sort of like this my plan administrator. 122 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: And then is there a big difference into getting a 123 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: personalized plan? 124 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. So a personalized plan is going to be 125 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 3: working with somebody who understands you, your family, your specific situation, 126 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 3: has actually spent time not only listening to what your 127 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 3: goals are, but actually helping you come up with them. 128 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 3: A lot of the times what happens is that people 129 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 3: just say, okay, well, you know, I want to retire 130 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: and I want to send my kids at school, but 131 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 3: I haven't really thought about much else. Yeah, and so 132 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 3: a good financial planner is actually going to sit there 133 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 3: and go through what is going to make life be 134 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 3: most fulfilling for somebody, and what is most fulfilling for 135 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 3: not only that person but also for the whole family, 136 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: and then organizing the plan around that. So that's going 137 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 3: to mean tailoring the person's specific savings rate. It's going 138 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 3: to mean picking specifically how the person is saving versus 139 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: is investing, or like what their asset allocation itself looks 140 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,679 Speaker 3: like it's going to involve estate planning of some kind, 141 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 3: because they're going to eventually either pass wealth or we 142 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 3: want to make sure that even if they don't want 143 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 3: to pass wealth, that they're provided for in some way 144 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 3: during their life, right, and that it should something arise 145 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 3: to something like where they were to become incapacitated or 146 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 3: so forth, that they would have the documents in place 147 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 3: that were necessary to make sure that somebody who loves 148 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: them can take care of them. 149 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 2: Right. 150 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 3: So basic things like this where people don't necessarily think 151 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 3: about it when they're like, all right, well I get 152 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 3: my four one K match and you know, I spend 153 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 3: money on blah blah blah thing, and then I'm just 154 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 3: that's the way I do it. And so I think 155 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: a lot of the times there's just other aspects to 156 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 3: a financial plan that a financial planner in and of 157 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 3: itself will just help bring to light. And then a 158 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 3: good financial planner will help be collaborative in that process 159 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 3: because the financial planner obviously, like we don't know the 160 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 3: specific intricate details of somebody's life. We can only give 161 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: the information based on the information that we receive, and 162 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 3: so what I generally recommend is that anyone is going 163 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 3: to work with a planner, that they make sure that 164 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,559 Speaker 3: person is really listening to them and that they're working 165 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 3: together on the plan rather than the advisor just throwing 166 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 3: a you know, a stack of papers across the desk 167 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:18,239 Speaker 3: and say do this great. 168 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: I love that it's like a coach, like it's somebody 169 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: to kind of give you this outside perspective and help 170 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: you think through things and make sure you're checking all 171 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: the boxes, which is super important. So now let's dig 172 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: in a little bit. So before we're recording, you were 173 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: telling me that you're one of seven, one of seven 174 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: financial advisors that are bitcoin financial advisors. I don't think 175 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: there's any official designation for that. I guess you're somewhat 176 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: self designating yourself as a bitcoin financial advisor. 177 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 2: How has that worked for the last seven years? 178 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: And so just at the time of this recording, the 179 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: Bitcoin ETF just got approved and this changes everything. But 180 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: let's talk about pre what happened this last couple of days. 181 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: How has it been been a cooin financial advisor when 182 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: most people maybe aren't able to buy bitcoin in a 183 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,679 Speaker 1: traditional you know, method. 184 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's a it's basically uncharted territory. It's applying 185 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 3: the current like it's basically applying the legacy system to 186 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 3: what I believe is going to be the new system, 187 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 3: using the rules and the regulations as they are today 188 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 3: to help make informed decisions about how people can save money, 189 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 3: transfer their wealth, and live in the future when I 190 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 3: do believe that bitcoin will be used as a currency, 191 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 3: not just you know, this store value, I think it'll 192 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 3: be you know, the store value, the meaning of exchange, 193 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 3: the unit of account, the whole thing. And so I 194 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 3: don't obviously know how long that that's going to take, 195 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 3: and so we need to work in the reality in 196 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 3: which we live. In the reality that we live right now, 197 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 3: right is more Fiat than it is bitcoin, in which 198 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 3: case we need to apply the Fiat rules to bitcoin 199 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 3: and make it such that people can pass this and 200 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 3: use it in the way that is within the legal 201 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 3: framework of what's available. Bitcoiners don't like to hear that, 202 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 3: I think from me, because they want to, you know, 203 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 3: just say, okay, IRS is gone, like none of this 204 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 3: stuff matters. And maybe they're right, right, Maybe in the 205 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: future there's no more irs, there's no more government. You know, 206 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 3: we live in some libertarian, utopian society and like you know, 207 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 3: I hope that some of these people get their wish 208 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 3: and that would be great, right, But given the fact 209 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 3: that we don't, we're not living in that society, right, 210 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 3: we still need to plan around these things, and so 211 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 3: there aren't really like these rules. 212 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:20,439 Speaker 2: We got to cut you off right there. We got 213 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 2: to take into a quick break. 214 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: But if you're just tuning in, you're listening to the 215 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: Mark mass Show. I'm sitting down with Morgan Rashard. She's 216 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: a certified financial planner with Origin Wealth Advisors. We're going 217 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: to talk more about how bitcoin can fit into your 218 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: retirement plan. 219 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 2: We're back with more in a minute. Don't go away, 220 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 2: we'll be right back, all right, Welcome back. 221 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: If you're just tune in, you're listening to the Mark 222 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: Moss Show, sitting down with Morgan Richard, a financial planner 223 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: with Origin Wealth Advisors. And you know, we're gonna have 224 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: to cut you off there real quick before the break. 225 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: But you were talking about how it can fit into 226 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: a portfolio and how people can think through it. And 227 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: some people think about this utopian state that maybe one 228 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: day we'll get there, but I agree with what you 229 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: were saying, and I often say that we have to 230 00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: sort of invest in the world as it is, not 231 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: as we wanted to be here, as we think it 232 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: would be, but as it is today. 233 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 2: So I agree with that point for sure. 234 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: Let's talk about a question I get asked all the time, 235 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you get asked all the time how 236 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: much bitcoin should I buy? And specifically like what type 237 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: of allocation should I buy? And I'm sure the answer depends, 238 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: So maybe you could talk about how you would answer 239 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: that question for different people. Maybe you say, hey, if 240 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: you're younger, higher income, older, less income, or I don't know, 241 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: how would you answer that question? 242 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 3: I should say, yeah, absolutely, I get asked this question 243 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 3: all the time, and I think there's variations on this 244 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 3: question too, but why don't we stick with the allocation one. 245 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 3: That way we can sort of keep it simple. So 246 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 3: I would say that all of this is going to 247 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 3: depend on risk tolerance, which breaks down to ability to 248 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 3: take risk and also willingness to take risk. Ability to 249 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 3: take risk is less often looked at. Ability is like 250 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 3: how often you are paid, how likely it is that 251 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 3: you're actually going to receive that income, how much money 252 00:10:58,400 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 3: you actually have as far as net worth is con 253 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: n right, somebody who has two billion dollars can take 254 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 3: more risk than somebody who has two thousand dollars, right, 255 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 3: So things like that play into a ability. People often 256 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 3: think of willingness, you know, it's like do Bunge jump 257 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 3: or not? Right, They think of that when they think 258 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 3: of risk torants, and so generally the people say, oh, 259 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 3: people who are into bitcoin have high high risk. Tornt says, 260 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 3: because they're willing to stomach that kind of volatility, and 261 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 3: that certainly plays into it, but ability as well. And 262 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,119 Speaker 3: then it's going to be how well you understand the technology? 263 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 3: So are you new at this and you're not really 264 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 3: sure whether or not, like bitcoin's going to become a thing, 265 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 3: you know, you're probably going to take a lower percentage 266 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 3: relative to somebody who has you know, this is everything 267 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 3: that they do. They live, breathe, and sleep and eat bitcoin, right, 268 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 3: And so that's gonna like they're understanding the amount of 269 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 3: hours that they've spent trying to learn about the technology 270 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 3: is going to be to look very different than somebody 271 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 3: who's maybe read a few articles on Forbes. And so 272 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 3: I think that that all plays into allocation. But that said, 273 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 3: I generally tell people that if they want to be 274 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 3: one hundred percent and bitcoin that that I don't disagree. 275 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: We don't advocate that people be high undred percent in 276 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 3: bitcoin because generally, what I've found is that in my practice, 277 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 3: people have other goals that are shorter termed than what 278 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 3: bitcoin allows for, in which case you need to have 279 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 3: FIAT to basically subsidize that. But that if you have 280 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 3: a decent emergency friend, if you have somewhere between three 281 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 3: and six months worth of expenses saved in fiat, that 282 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 3: if you want to be one hundred percent in bitcoin, 283 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 3: and you've got a high risk tolrance both willingness and ability, 284 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,719 Speaker 3: and you also have very good understanding of the technology, 285 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: then that's fine by me. Bitcoin is a savings technology, 286 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 3: it's not investment, in which case we don't tell people 287 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 3: how much savings they're supposed to have, right. I mean, 288 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 3: we can guide them and give them guidelines on how 289 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 3: much they should accumulate based on their goals, but we 290 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 3: don't tell them from a percentage standpoint whether or not 291 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 3: it's like you should be one hundred percent in savings 292 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 3: or you should be ninety five percent in savings, So 293 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 3: that's going to be more dictated by somebody's overall financial 294 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 3: picture and whether or not having risk on investments make 295 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 3: more sense relative to their picture. That said, I'm not 296 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 3: one hundred percent allocator generally, and so give people kind 297 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 3: of more buckets. So if you're young and starting out 298 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 3: and you really know the technology and so forth, your 299 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 3: one hundred percent. Most people in my practice actually generally 300 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 3: fall in this forty to fifty percent range where you know, 301 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 3: they're on board, they understand the technology really really well. 302 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 3: They are using this as a long term savings vehicle. 303 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 3: They think that this is going to be their best 304 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 3: bet to hedge against inflation. They believe that this is 305 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 3: going to be money that they use in the future. 306 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 3: That said, they have enough short term goals that it 307 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 3: makes the most sense for them to hold somewhere between 308 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 3: you know, fifty to sixty percent of their net worth 309 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 3: in fe out related assets. Generally, what we found is 310 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 3: like that kind of is the real sweet spot for 311 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 3: people who really have a good understanding of the technology, 312 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 3: but like aren't just you know, bitcoins not everything in 313 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 3: their life, And then for everybody else, it's really kind 314 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 3: of somewhere between three and ten percent. I actually used 315 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 3: to fall in this one percent camp of like just 316 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 3: get off zero have one percent. I don't actually think 317 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 3: one percent is enough. I think that starting positions actually 318 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 3: should be larger, provided obviously that somebody is willing to 319 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 3: take that risk, but because I just don't think that 320 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 3: one percent of somebody's net worth is going to be 321 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 3: enough to hedge against all the other risks out there 322 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 3: of not holding bitcoin, in which case three percent, while 323 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 3: it's not, you know, a fail safe, it's definitely going 324 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 3: to help more than one percent. 325 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a really good breakdown. 326 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: I would agree with a lot of that, I think 327 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: as far as the one hundred percent allocation, I am 328 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: I'm opposed to that. But but I'll say that with 329 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: a caveat, and that is that I think that the 330 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: more assets. 331 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: You get, the more you want to diversify that. 332 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: You know. Obviously, Warren Buffett talks about, you know, concentration 333 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: for growth and diversification for protection. But I learned the 334 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: hard way in two thousand and eight after selling two businesses, 335 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: after building tons of real estate, and I was all 336 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: in on southern California real estate, and that turned out 337 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: very horribly for me. So my PTSD, I'm like, never 338 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: all in, and I get like the smaller allocators, the plubs, 339 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: the younger people. If you will, you got a thousand bucks, 340 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: are two thousand bucks? Like you're all in? You got 341 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: five million or ten million? Like you probably want to 342 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: buy some other things. So I think it sort of 343 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: depends on that as well. 344 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 3: I totally agree, And I think that's also why, I mean, 345 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 3: we generally deal with a higher networth population and why 346 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 3: people generally follow these forty to fifty percent allocation ranges 347 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 3: is exactly because of that. 348 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think a lot of the noise that 349 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: I hear online, oh one hundred percent go in or 350 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: the cell your chairish movement, you know, yeah, if you 351 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: got two thousand bucks, like go all in? What do 352 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: you got to lose? Kind of a thing, right, But 353 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: Michael Saylor as bullish he is. 354 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 2: I've been to his house. 355 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: He's got really big houses, and he's got really big boats, 356 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: and he's got businesses, right, so he has other things 357 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: like that. I also liked what you said about the 358 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: time frame, right, So I think that's another big piece. 359 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: Right. 360 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: So bitcoin typically sort of runs in these cycles, and 361 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: maybe there hasn't been a period of more than about 362 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: three years where the price has been down and I, 363 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: as I said, sort of came from this real estate 364 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: sector and it was sort of like time five year 365 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: timeframes typically think about that cycle. So then would you 366 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: typically tell some of your clients, like, hey, only put 367 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: money into bitcoin that you could allow to sit there. 368 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 2: For at least three, four or five years. Do you 369 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: give them some sort of. 370 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 3: A time I generally go longer than that. My feeling 371 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 3: is that these cycles may you know, they may or 372 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 3: may not be related to the having. Every time they 373 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 3: have been related to the having, and therefore like, yeah, 374 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 3: we can kind of look at past performance and maybe 375 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 3: predict future performance, but maybe we can't, right, in which 376 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 3: case it's probably better to air on the side of 377 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 3: like not needing this money for more like eight to 378 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 3: ten to fifteen years generally if somebody doesn't, I'm really 379 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 3: more looking at a ten year timeframe for people to 380 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 3: be holding things in general. That's kind of how I 381 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 3: look at risk ask assets in general. So, whether it 382 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 3: be to stock market, real estate, anything like that, where 383 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: especially real estate where you're going to have intense costs 384 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 3: right to sell and so forth, you want to be 385 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 3: holding these for longer time periods so that it makes sense. 386 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 3: And same thing with bitcoin. It's like we are here 387 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 3: for the long term. If you need something over the 388 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 3: shorter period of time that we are planning for, we're 389 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 3: not using bitcoin to plan for it. Bitcoin to me 390 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 3: is like especially well for younger crowds, right, it would 391 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 3: be a retirement asset. For older crowds, it would be 392 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 3: a portion of retirement assets because they have generally long 393 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 3: periods of time where you're actually in retirement. Most people 394 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 3: have a thirty year retirement period, let's call it. And 395 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 3: then also legacy planning, right, Bitcoin would be a great 396 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 3: tool for that. There are other longer periods of time, 397 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 3: like let's say you have student loan debt or something 398 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 3: like this, and you're in one of these income based 399 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 3: where you became payment programs. These are twenty thirty year 400 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 3: periods of time, right where you could use bitcoin as 401 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 3: a savings vehicle to help headge against a tax bill 402 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 3: or so forth for any of these kinds of things. 403 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 3: So it's just kind of looking at the time period 404 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 3: and making sure that it's long enough to be able 405 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 3: to withstand cycles. 406 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great point, and I think about some 407 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: of these traditional vehicles to invest through, like an IRA 408 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: or four oh one K, where your money's basically locked 409 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 1: up in there anyway, you have penalties to get it out. 410 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: So if you think about it in those terms, like hey, 411 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: I'm locking it up, I don't get it for later, 412 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: I think you'll probably be better off. Obviously, the long 413 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: term perspective, we'll get into that. I want to jump 414 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: into now the big elephant in the room, which is 415 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: the biggest news in Wall Street. It's all over mainstream 416 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: media right now, and this is the Bitcoin ETF. So 417 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: I want to talk about the Bitcoin ETF, what you 418 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: think about that long term locations for bitcoin and for 419 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: your clients. Before we do, I gotta take a very 420 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: quick break. So if you're just tune in, you're listening 421 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: to the Mark Moss Show, sitting down with Morgan Shard, 422 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: a financial planner, and we'll be back with more on 423 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: the Bitcoin ETF in a minute. 424 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: Don't go wait, bear back. 425 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 1: Hi, welcome back. If you just tune in you're listening 426 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: to the Mark Moss Show. I'm sitting down with Morgan Rashard. 427 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: She is a financial planner with Origin Wealth Advisors, host 428 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: of the Bitcoin four Advisors podcast. So if you're in 429 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: that niche, you should definitely be checking her out. But 430 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: let's talk about Morgan. Let's talk about the big news here. 431 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: The ETF, the Bitcoin ETF finally came through. You know, 432 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: it's been in the works for years. At this point 433 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: it seemed like Bitcoin, I'm sorry, Wall Street was always 434 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: gonna want to sort of get their grips on this, 435 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,719 Speaker 1: if you will. So the Bitcoin ETF is approved yesterday, Wednesday, 436 00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: January tenth, and it's now changing things pretty rapid. Let's 437 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 1: just start from a big picture analysis. I guess, what's 438 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 1: your sort of viewpoint out on this from an advisor standpoint? 439 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, So as an advisor, this doesn't really affect my 440 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 3: practice at all. So what I've tried to focus on 441 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 3: for the last I've been advising on bitcoin basically since 442 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, and what I've advised clients on is that 443 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 3: we buy bitcoin outright and we store it properly, and 444 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 3: so to me, that's self custody, and that we do 445 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 3: that either in a single SIG or a multi sig solution. 446 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 3: And so to me, the ETF, while it doesn't really 447 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 3: necessarily affect my practice or how we're going to do 448 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 3: things going forward. Obviously, it does affect the industry going 449 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 3: forward and how financial advisors are going to be approaching this. 450 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 3: I think that if i'm my hope is that it's 451 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 3: a stepping stone. My hope is that people allocate to 452 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 3: bitcoin through the ETF and that they use this as 453 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 3: a stepping stone to realize that, hey, maybe I want 454 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 3: to figure out how this technology works now that you 455 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 3: know it's this you know, multi billion dollar asset and 456 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 3: so forth, and it's been around for fifteen plus years 457 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 3: and it's now an ETF, and maybe this is something 458 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 3: that's really worth more my time. And so even though 459 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 3: I've got this one percent or two percent allocation with 460 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 3: my advisor, I'm now going to take it upon myself 461 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 3: to buy bitcoint outright and see how it works and 462 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 3: so forth, and eventually I will be like all of 463 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 3: Morgan's clients and take self custody. That's my great hope. 464 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 3: I obviously, I mean, I wouldn't say I'm an optimist 465 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 3: when it comes to thinking whether or not that will 466 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 3: be what people actually do. I think that it's much 467 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 3: more likely that most people get their assets parked in 468 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 3: the CTF. They don't necessarily look at what it is 469 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 3: or even think about having it in their portfolio. They 470 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 3: just see it as a diversifier that their advisor told 471 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 3: them is prudent for whatever reason, and they don't even 472 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 3: give it a second thought. But there will be a 473 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 3: percentage of people who do actually go down the bitcoin 474 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 3: rabbit hole, so to speak. And that is beneficial, I think, 475 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 3: because the more people who take self sovereignty over their money. Right, 476 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 3: that's the whole point of this project, is that we 477 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 3: start to remove these third parties, these trusted their parties, 478 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 3: and we start to retake control of our money. And 479 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 3: then we have you know, we're outside the purview of 480 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 3: the government, you know, government surveillance and so forth on 481 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 3: all of our transactions. Like people have a right to that. 482 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 3: And this is not like conspiracy theories. We obviously know 483 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 3: that the government is looking at every single one of 484 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 3: our transactions. Obviously they're not you know, honed in on 485 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 3: what Mark Moss is specifically doing or what Morgan Richard 486 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 3: is specifically doing, right, but they could be if they 487 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 3: want it to be. And so I think just like 488 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 3: it's un American obviously, and that for most people, right, 489 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 3: even if they don't necessarily agree with like the libertarian 490 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 3: utopia that we were talking about earlier. For most people, 491 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 3: they still just want to live their lives and not 492 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 3: be bothered by the government. And so I think that 493 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 3: this adds to that project in a way that it's 494 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 3: becoming more you know, institutionalized, that this is something that's 495 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 3: here and here to stay, and that you know, the 496 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 3: government necessarily isn't going to attack it. But it doesn't 497 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 3: It doesn't help move it move the project forward in 498 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 3: the regard of people actually using bitcoin the way it's 499 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 3: meant to be used. 500 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it helps them with their debasement of their savings, 501 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: but doesn't really advance the project forward. 502 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 2: I get messages all the time. I'm sure you do 503 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 2: as well. 504 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: I think I just yesterday I got one and someone 505 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: asked me specifically, you know, I'm thinking about liquidating my 506 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: entire four oh one K and paying a massive penalty 507 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: and just putting the whole thing into bitcoin. Do you 508 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: think that's a good idea? Which, I mean, I can't 509 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: really answer that question. But in this type of environment 510 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: an ETF, they don't necessarily have to do that, right, 511 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 1: So they don't have to liquidate their entire four oh 512 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: one K and pay a penalty. They could just now 513 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: move some of that into bitcoin now because there's an 514 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: ETF solution for that. 515 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 3: Right, Well, it depends, right because sometimes these four oh 516 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 3: one K plans have specific investments that they're allowed to 517 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 3: invest in, and so if the plan itself allows for 518 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 3: bitcoin investment, then obviously they could do that. If the 519 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 3: plan doesn't, then they wouldn't be able to do that. 520 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 3: They would still have to liquidate their four O one 521 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 3: K and pay the penalty and so forth. So I 522 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 3: think it would depend on whether or not you're able 523 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 3: to self direct and so forth. 524 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: Are a lot of those able to be converted over 525 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: into a self directed four oh one k. 526 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 3: Again, it's also going to depend on the plan and 527 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 3: who is administrating the plan and so forth. So I'm 528 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 3: sure like I've seen fidelity of plans where that's where 529 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 3: it's kind of open allocation or open architecture to to 530 00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 3: allocate a certain percentage of your four O one k, 531 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 3: but not the whole thing to be self directed. Other 532 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 3: options that people have would be like if they separated 533 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 3: from an employer to roll it over into an IRA 534 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 3: and not take the penalty and then work with a 535 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 3: company like Unchanged Capital or so forth to set up 536 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 3: like a collaborative custody multi sig Ira and so forth, 537 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 3: And obviously they're going to be fees associated with doing that, 538 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 3: but then you're holding bitcoin the right way. So there 539 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 3: the avenues are available, but the penalty would still apply, 540 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 3: just depending on whether or not the four oh one 541 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 3: K itself is allowing for the ETF. 542 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: Okay, So just because there's an ETF doesn't mean that 543 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: your four oh one K will have access to it, 544 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: because it has to. 545 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, and I would say if anything, it will 546 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 3: probably mean that people will not have access to it 547 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 3: for a while because there are all sorts of rules 548 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 3: and regulations that govern four oh one K plans, and 549 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 3: most four oh one K providers are going to take 550 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 3: a conservative approach to what they do and don't allow 551 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 3: their participants to invest in. 552 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: And a lot of the four oh one K stuff 553 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: is managed. I mean, it's what we talked about, So 554 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: it's not self managed, it's managed for you. So they're 555 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: the ones that are sort of dividing that up and 556 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: divvying that up a making your investments for you. So 557 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: it's sort of like I'm asking a question, but is 558 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: it sort of like where that plan administrator at some point, 559 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: and it might be years from now, would decide that 560 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: he wants to bring big one into the allocation and 561 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: then you get it that way. 562 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 3: Well, so generally pensions work more like that, where there 563 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 3: are actually like a money manager that chooses the asset 564 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 3: allocation based on actuary assumptions about who is in the plan. 565 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 3: The four to one K plans are what's called divine contribution, 566 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 3: and so what the plan administrator does is they pick 567 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 3: what people are allowed to invest in in the plan, 568 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 3: but they don't pick the allocation the person themselves. They 569 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 3: decide like how much money they're going to put into 570 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 3: the plan, and then how they're actually going to invest 571 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 3: that money. Generally, what the plan administrator does is they 572 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 3: set some sort of allocation in one of these target 573 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 3: date style funds that's based on your age and when 574 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 3: they think you're going to retire, and they force you 575 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 3: into that, and then the onus is on the participant 576 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 3: to go in there and actually change their asset allocation 577 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 3: based on what other funds are available. 578 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so maybe not a big influx from people that 579 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: are already in these traditional vehicles, the four to one k's, 580 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: et cetera. Because of different rules and regulations that are there. 581 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, like the IRA crowd is going 582 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 3: to benefit more because the IRA crowd, like they didn't 583 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 3: want to take maybe their assets out of their IRA 584 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 3: and pay the penalty, or they didn't want it, or 585 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 3: they didn't know about a company like unchained Capital, or 586 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 3: don't want to do something like that because it seems risky, 587 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 3: and so they would benefit from the ETF for sure. 588 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 3: I mean there's trillions of dollars in these IRA style plans, 589 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 3: so I mean the ETF will benefit from that. 590 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: You told me before we started recording that some of 591 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,719 Speaker 1: the bitcoin financial planners were being I don't know, investigated, 592 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: they're coming after you something like that. I don't know 593 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: if you want to touch on that briefly. But also 594 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: do you think that now with this sort of more 595 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 1: institutional adoption with ETFs sort of takes some of that 596 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: pressure off. 597 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, I kind of wonder. So the CFP Board of Enforcements, 598 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 3: So I'm a member of CFP board just because I 599 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 3: have the CFP designation and I've been a member since 600 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, and we have a website called the Bitcoin 601 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 3: Financial Advisors Network. There's like seven or eight of us 602 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 3: on there, and basically what we do is we help 603 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 3: clients buy bitcoin outright and take self custody for the 604 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 3: most part, or we just work with clients who want 605 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 3: to own bitcoin in some capacity. And so, prior to 606 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 3: obviously the ETF being issued right, this is not something 607 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 3: that financial advisors could touch, and so we create this 608 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 3: network to be just sort of a directory where people 609 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 3: can find people like me who are very happy and 610 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 3: willing to help people who are interested in bitcoin. The 611 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 3: CFP board came found the website and decided, for whatever reason, 612 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 3: that we may or may not be doing something that 613 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 3: they agree with. We actually don't have that much information 614 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 3: on what it is that they are suspecting is wrong 615 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 3: about the network, other than the fact that we all 616 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 3: advise on bitcoin. And so they asked some questions that 617 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 3: I felt personally were not We're beyond the scope of 618 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 3: what was allowable for them to ask, like specific, not 619 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 3: specific client information, but like just kind of wondering about 620 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 3: client's asset allocation and so forth, and how they store 621 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 3: bitcoin in my practice, and like what my role in 622 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 3: that is. And so I responded very kind of tersely 623 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 3: that this information is confidential, and so give me more 624 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 3: information about what you're looking for, and maybe we'll give 625 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,120 Speaker 3: you more information type of the thing. We all submitted 626 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 3: our responses last week, and we're still waiting to hear 627 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 3: back from the CFP board about what they're going to 628 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 3: do with that information and what they're going to do 629 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,959 Speaker 3: with us. But so far it's been a pretty poorly 630 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 3: done investigation, I would say, because they asked for publicly 631 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 3: available information from a lot of us, and they also 632 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 3: got my gender incorrect. So I thought that was kind 633 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 3: of funny that they didn't even go on the website 634 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 3: to see whether or not I was a man or 635 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 3: a woman and just called me mister Rochard. So maybe 636 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 3: they're actually after Pierre. 637 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: And I mean, if you're just tuned in, you're listening 638 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: to the Marc Moss Show. I'm sitting down with Morgan Rishard, 639 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: a financial planner, as you just heard, and we're talking 640 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: about how bitcoin fits into that. When we come back, 641 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: I want to talk about how you talk to your 642 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: clients about bitcoin and and sort of this future that 643 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: you paint for them. I gotta take a very quick break, though, 644 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: don't go away. 645 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. All right, Welcome back. 646 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: If you just tune in, you're listening to the Mark 647 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: Moss Show. I'm sitting down with Morgan Richard. She's a 648 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: financial planner and a bitcoin financial planner and she is 649 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: with Origin Wealth Advisors, also the host of the Bitcoin 650 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: for Advisors podcast. Morgan, let's talk sort of about this 651 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: like future vision that you have. So you talked about 652 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: sort of like talking to your clients and you mentioned 653 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: like how well do they understand the tech? That was 654 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: kind of one of the things that you threw out, right, 655 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: So depending on where you how well you understand it 656 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: and where you think it's going, then you can decide 657 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: how you want to allocate. 658 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 2: But if I think about this, you know, I think 659 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 2: you would agree. 660 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: Bitcoin is a commodity, so we value it like a commodity, 661 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: not like an equity. So equities have cash flows and 662 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: things like that, so there's some sort of calculation intrinsic value, 663 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: which that's a whole different topic. But a commodity is 664 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: basically supply and demand driven, right Copper, Right, Copper goes 665 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: up when the economy is good, Copper go down on 666 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: the economy's bad. Right, for example, right, uranium, Right, do 667 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: we think nuclear is going to be bigger in the 668 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: future or less in the future, And you sort of 669 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: play commodities like that, So it's really driven off supply 670 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: and demand. I don't really have to understand exactly how 671 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: uranium is get got out of the ground and how 672 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: it then powers nuclear reactors. 673 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 2: So I don't really need to know the tech behind 674 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 2: the uranium. 675 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: I just need to know if it's going to be 676 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: in more supply and demand. So I'm curious, you know, 677 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: how how you think about now that we're a little 678 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: bit further along now, especially with the ETF sort of 679 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: maybe changing the paradigm or crossing the chasm, if you will, 680 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: do you talk about it more like a commodity and 681 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: just like, hey, do you think the government's print more 682 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: money in the future or less? Do you think governments 683 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: are more authoritary in the future or less from a 684 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,719 Speaker 1: supply demand aspect? Or do you still think it's important 685 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: to like really get into the nitty gritty details of 686 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: the tech. 687 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's a great question. Right, you don't have 688 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 3: to like know everything about your car in order to 689 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 3: start the ignition and be able to put gas in it. Right, 690 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 3: but you should know that you shouldn't put diesel in 691 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 3: in your car if it's not a diesel engine and 692 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 3: so forth, and so yeah, I mean I think in 693 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 3: regards to bitcoin, it's the same thing. There are certain 694 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 3: things that people are really going to have to know, 695 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 3: whether or not they need to know all the intricate 696 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 3: details of buying and how nodes work, and you know 697 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 3: what miniscripts are. Obviously I don't agree. I don't think 698 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 3: people need to know that. What people do need to 699 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 3: know though, because it is so volatile, is why they're 700 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 3: going to hold this. Because what you don't want to 701 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 3: have happened, which has happened time and time again, is 702 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 3: that people buy it at the absolute top, right, and 703 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 3: then they can't hold through the cycle, and so they're 704 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 3: worse offt right for buying it and then immediately selling, 705 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 3: even if they had the long term goal of being 706 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 3: able to hold this for ten plus years, because they 707 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 3: don't actually need that money for ten plus years. And 708 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 3: so understanding the technology to me is it's actually similar 709 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 3: to what you're talking about, right. Will governments be more 710 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 3: or less authoritarian in the future, like generally people think 711 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 3: more so just given everything that's going on it, Right, 712 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 3: Will governments continue to print money, Yeah, until we take 713 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 3: their money printer away. Right. They've shown time and time 714 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 3: again that they're going to do that. And so you 715 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 3: want to be able to opt out of the system 716 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 3: in a way where there's less uncertainty with your savings. 717 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 3: And so savings, the whole point of savings is that 718 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 3: we minimize uncertainty. We don't minimum, we don't reduce risk, right, 719 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 3: because there are different risks that are measurable and so forth. 720 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 3: But we do minimize uncertainty because there are different things 721 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 3: that are going to happen in people's lives, whether they 722 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 3: be good or bad, and you need savings in order 723 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 3: to help in those situations, whether they are good or bad. 724 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 3: And so bitcoin is one of those things that, Yeah, 725 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 3: it can help with minimizing long term uncertainty, but it 726 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 3: can only do that if you're willing to hold it 727 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 3: for a long period of time, in which case, again 728 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 3: you're going to have to make sure that you understand 729 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 3: why you're holding it. 730 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about that holding for long periods of time. 731 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: I've said many times, like when people ask me at 732 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: what price will you sell your bitcoin? And I'm like, well, 733 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: you don't really understand how building wealth works because the 734 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: goal is to get more assets. My goal is to 735 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: get more assets and then pass those assets onto my kids, 736 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: not to get more FIAT and so like I want 737 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: to Typically I think about assets in three categories, the 738 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: best being scarce assets, so fine art collectibles and waterfront 739 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: property and bitcoin, things like that that can outpace inflation. 740 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: And my goal is to get more of those things 741 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: and not less, like why would I want to sell it? 742 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: And so you talk about this long term perspective, do 743 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: you think about when you think about this long term perspective? 744 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: Are you thinking, like I mean, is that what you 745 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,959 Speaker 1: tell your clients, Like, hey, the goal is to get 746 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: more assets, pass those assets down to your kids. Your 747 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: balance sheet is your scorecard, not selling them as a 748 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: trader trying to get more dollars in your bank account. 749 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: Is that sort of how you think about that long 750 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: term perspective. 751 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, So we like to frame the long term perspective 752 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 3: relative to what the client wants to do in the 753 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 3: long term. So for most people, that's going to be 754 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 3: living some kind of comfortable retirement. Maybe it means traveling, 755 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 3: maybe it means starting a business. Right, there are all 756 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 3: sorts of reasons why people need money in the future, 757 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 3: whether it be today or thirty years from now, and 758 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 3: so we like to frame how we're saving in those 759 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 3: terms and making sure that we are presenting scenarios that 760 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 3: are relative to what the client wants to do. So if, 761 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 3: for instance, the client has a huge goal of legacy 762 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 3: planning right where not only do they give to their kids, 763 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 3: but they also give to certain charitable organizations that are 764 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 3: important to them, Like, how can we set those things 765 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 3: up so that maybe the charitable organization could actually hold 766 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 3: the bitcoin and so forth Right, These are all kind 767 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 3: of areas that we're now planning into, and so setting 768 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 3: it up is like if it's kind of like how 769 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 3: they came up with that. I think it was like 770 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 3: this app where you can actually make yourself look older, 771 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 3: so it would force you to want to save because 772 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 3: you're like, oh, I can see myself in the future. 773 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 3: While that app I think probably fizzled out, it does 774 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 3: help people to actually kind of think about what they 775 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 3: would be doing, even obviously if they changed their mind. 776 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 3: But having more savings is going to provide flexibility, whether 777 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 3: you know exactly what you're going to be doing in 778 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 3: thirty years or not. And so being able to like 779 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 3: put sort of the framework around what will that person 780 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 3: specifically be doing in the future is going to help 781 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 3: with that long term savings plan. And yeah, having more 782 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 3: rather than less is generally going to be helpful. I 783 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 3: do think though, that if bitcoin does become a global 784 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 3: reserve currency, we could potentially be in a situation where, 785 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 3: if you know, inflation's not really the factor that we're 786 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 3: looking at anymore, and maybe we are in some sort 787 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 3: of deflationary position where you know, we're not trying to 788 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 3: accumulate so much as just preserve. But we don't live 789 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 3: in that reality yet, right, So we're still in that 790 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 3: accumulation no matter kind of what stage of life you're in, 791 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 3: even if you're in retirement. Yeah, you still need to 792 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 3: accumulate throughout retirement by not spending more than you can. 793 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I just think I love that you frame 794 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: it up like savings. That's how I think about I 795 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: try to not think about investing. I think about savings. 796 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 1: So when I buy real estate, which I still buy. 797 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: Sorry bigoin guys, I know I hate that I still 798 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: buy real estate waterfront property, but I think about my 799 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: real estate, and I think about my bitcoin. 800 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 2: Of savings, I'm just saving that. 801 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: That's just where I put my money, right, I do 802 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: I think if some investing is more like some specuative 803 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: stuff that I do. I do obviously do the Bigcoin 804 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,760 Speaker 1: Opportunity Fund. You know, I'm investing in startups and VC 805 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: stuff and stuff like that, so that's more of like 806 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: my investment stuff. But yeah, real estate bitcoin, that's like 807 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: long term savings. I know you're working on a new book, 808 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 1: and I know that's probably not coming out anytime soon, 809 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:55,320 Speaker 1: but I'm wondering if you want to give us a 810 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: little sneak peek on that and kind of what your 811 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: goal and intention is of that book. Yeah. 812 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 3: So I wrote a book already called The Personal Finance 813 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 3: Quick Start Guide, and it's really a feat financial planning 814 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 3: book with a very small sliver of bitcoin in there. 815 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 3: And got actually pretty good feedback from the bitcoin community 816 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 3: about the book, but them wanting more from a bitcoin perspective, 817 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 3: and really me wanting to deliver more from a bitcoin perspective. 818 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 3: There isn't any book out there right now that's specifically 819 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 3: about bitcoin financial planning. There are a lot of books 820 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 3: out there about why you should buy it and what 821 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 3: it is, and you know how it can help you 822 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 3: in all sorts of aspects of your life, and you 823 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 3: know what's wrong with the money, right You can go 824 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 3: on and on. There's a list of so many bitcoin 825 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 3: books out there, and there are a lot of very 826 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 3: talented authors. So this is not a knock on any 827 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 3: of these people, you know, I think of what everyone 828 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 3: is contributing to the community is amazing. But I do 829 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 3: think that my role here just given what I've seen 830 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 3: and like we basically in the last three four years 831 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 3: only have people coming through who have large Bitcoin positions, 832 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 3: and so the territory that I'm in right now and 833 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 3: the financial planning problems that are coming up are not 834 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 3: financial planning problems that people typically think of, and are 835 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 3: going to be financial planning problems that I think that 836 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 3: a lot of people are going to have going forward. 837 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 3: And so I would like to just tailor the fiat 838 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 3: planning content to be more Bitcoin focused. And that's the 839 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:12,240 Speaker 3: whole heart of the book. 840 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: So it's not as you said, Yeah, there's lots of 841 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: great books out there, but this one specifically is not 842 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: to convince someone why they should buy bitcoin or where 843 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: bitcoin goes in the future, but more specifically, if you're 844 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: using it, here's how you may want to think about 845 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,919 Speaker 1: it through a larger sort of view of your own 846 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: financial future. 847 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,439 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, I'm not here to orange pill anybody. People 848 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 3: ask me that all the time. They're like, how do 849 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 3: you orange pill? And I'm like, I really don't. I'm 850 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 3: not here for that. What I'm here for is the 851 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 3: people who are already orange pilled. How can we make 852 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 3: this be very fulfilling and worthwhile and also make it 853 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,359 Speaker 3: such that you actually achieve the goals that you set 854 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 3: out to do, right, And so that's what the book 855 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 3: is going to be about, is like taking advantage of 856 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 3: whatever FIAT rules are out there to apply that and 857 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 3: also making sure that bitcoiners are actually asking themselves the 858 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 3: high level questions that they need to ask about their 859 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 3: personal financial situation. 860 00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, love it all right. 861 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: If you're just tuning in, you're listening to the Mark 862 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: mos Show, we've been sitting down with Morgan Richard. She's 863 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: a financial planner with Origin Wealth Advisors and the host 864 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 1: of the Bitcoin for Advisors podcast. We're going to link 865 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 1: to all that in the show notes down below. Hopefully 866 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: that makes sense. The world's changing very fast. I think 867 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: this Bitcoin ETF gets bitcoin to cross the chasm. The 868 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: early majority is about to flood in, so make sure 869 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: you take a position, but do it responsibly. So listen 870 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 1: to somebody smart like Morgan and don't go it on 871 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: your own. 872 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 2: But that's what we got. Thanks so much for listening today. 873 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,839 Speaker 2: Until next time. Thanks Morgan, thanks for having me