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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we're just hanging out

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Speaker 2: feeling irie. You're in Stuff you should Know?

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Speaker 3: Did you ever I mean, I'm gonna ask you two questions.

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Speaker 3: Did you ever read High Times much? And did you

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Speaker 3: ever subscribe?

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Speaker 2: I never subscribed. I was way too paranoid to do

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Speaker 2: something like that. But yes, I read it. I looked

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Speaker 2: at the pictures.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think for one year in college I actually

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Speaker 3: subscribed because and this is High Times magazine. We're talking

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Speaker 3: about everybody the I was gonna say notorious, but not

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Speaker 3: really notorious, the infamous weed magazine. Sure, but I subscribed

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Speaker 3: for I think a year because it just seemed like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I wanted to have that house, so that

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Speaker 3: like that had that on the coffee table with our

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Speaker 3: dress on it. I just thought it was like the

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Speaker 3: cool thing to do, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, I mean it was legitimately cool during a

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Speaker 2: certain period of life. Yeah, Like, if you were fifty

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Speaker 2: doing that, it's kind of sad. But if you're like

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Speaker 2: twenty or nineteen or twenty one or twenty and a half.

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Speaker 2: Let's say, then, yeah, I get it.

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Speaker 3: Watch what you say. Though, I've learned from recent emails

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Speaker 3: there may be a fifty year old out there that

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Speaker 3: think Sidetime is cool. That's gonna be very upset.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true, But I mean, do they have it

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Speaker 2: on their coffee table?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I think that's the thing that's kidding me.

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Speaker 3: Even when I did read it occasionally, I even at

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Speaker 3: the time was like, this is the articles, the way

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Speaker 3: they're written. There were so many puns, so kind of corny.

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Speaker 3: Yeah uh, and so it never felt like as good

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Speaker 3: as I think they might have thought it was. Does

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Speaker 3: that make sense?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And also one of the other things too, I

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Speaker 2: was going to say you could sense it, but no,

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Speaker 2: it was just really overt was they had an agenda

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Speaker 2: in every single one of their articles. There was a

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Speaker 2: way they wanted you to think, which is their position

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Speaker 2: on it, and they would like mock the other position

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Speaker 2: on it, typically the government's position on like legalization or

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Speaker 2: something like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Good point.

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Speaker 2: Over time, though, I mean, it became it's an iconic magazine, like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: pretty much everybody's heard of High Times. If you've never

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Speaker 2: even picked one up, there's a good chance you've heard

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Speaker 2: of High Times or somebody referencing High Times. It's like

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Speaker 2: it insinuated itself into American pop culture. And the reason

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Speaker 2: why it became iconic is it survived all sorts of

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Speaker 2: drug culture transitions. Yeah, like, throughout all these different ways

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Speaker 2: of thinking and looking at drugs and different drugs people

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Speaker 2: were doing, High Times managed to just keep plodding along

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Speaker 2: and stay relevant, I guess, is the best way to

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Speaker 2: put it. I didn't think I was going to say

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Speaker 2: that out loud, but here we are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure from the Yeah, let's just get into

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Speaker 3: it then, Okay, no more needs to be I agree.

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Speaker 2: I agree. So High Times was founded by a guy

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Speaker 2: named Thomas King for sad, and I just realized I

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Speaker 2: didn't look up any videos of people pronouncing his name,

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Speaker 2: but I'm pretty sure that's how it's spelled.

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Speaker 3: Because I was so ray to roll with four kade.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've seen the little French version of the umlaut

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Speaker 2: the little devil's tail coming off of the bottom of

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Speaker 2: the sea. Oh okay, and that indicates a sound if

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Speaker 2: my high school French doesn't fail me. So I think

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Speaker 2: his name was Thomas King for sad.

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Speaker 3: All right, great, he looks like if you look up

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Speaker 3: this guy, and you know, when I went to look up,

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Speaker 3: I'd never seen a picture of him. I expected. I

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Speaker 3: didn't expect to see someone so cool looking. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he looks like he stepped right out of the Almond

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Speaker 3: Brothers band or something.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say, it looks like the Almond Brothers

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Speaker 2: Satanic advisor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. And if you're thinking, like, what do

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Speaker 3: you mean it was like a pot magazine? Why do

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Speaker 3: you think it'd be cool? It's because I usually expect

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Speaker 3: them to look sort of like a wavy any like

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Speaker 3: weed activists, to be just decked out in tied eye

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Speaker 3: and kind of just wearing some sort of wacky handmade hat.

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Speaker 3: And this guy like he looked like he could jump

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Speaker 3: off of a chopper and like hit the stage or something.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know that same fifty year old who's

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Speaker 2: upset because I said something about high times on his

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Speaker 2: coffee table, it's pretty much a wavy gravy lookalike too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's wearing own handmade knit hat.

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Speaker 2: Right. So this guy Thomas King for SAD. It's a

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Speaker 2: pretty cool name. And if it sounds made up, it

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Speaker 2: is made up. His real name was Gary Goodson, and

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Speaker 2: it's not because his name was Gary Goodson that he

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Speaker 2: ditched that name in favor of Thomas King. For sad uh.

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Speaker 2: He was actually a big, big time pot dealer. Like,

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Speaker 2: not only did he sell literal tons of pot in

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Speaker 2: like the I think, starting in the late sixties and

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Speaker 2: going well in the past the time he was had

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Speaker 2: started publishing high times, he smuggled it himself. He flew

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Speaker 2: planes and he went to Mexico, he went to Jamaica,

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Speaker 2: and he smuggled pot tons of pot at a time

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Speaker 2: into the United States. There was a quote I found

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Speaker 2: of his that he said, there's two types of pot dealers,

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Speaker 2: those who need a forklift and those who don't. I

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Speaker 2: need a forklift, And like he wasn't joking, like he

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Speaker 2: really don't that much pot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I mean, regardless of how you feel about

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Speaker 3: that or him or any of it, he wasn't just

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Speaker 3: some guy saying, like, hey, let's try and make a

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Speaker 3: little dough off of this marijuana people are smoking. Like

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Speaker 3: he was knee deep in the business right. This was

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Speaker 3: after coming out of seemingly to avoid the Vietnam Draft,

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Speaker 3: a short stint in the Air Guard where he was

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Speaker 3: discharged after convincing them that he had schizophrenia. And at

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Speaker 3: that point he went back to Arizona and Phoenix changed

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Speaker 3: that name, which was his mother's I'm sorry, grandmother's maiden name,

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Speaker 3: and you know, got into the underground zine scene. You know,

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Speaker 3: that was a big thing back in the late sixties

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Speaker 3: because of the ubiquity of like being able to print

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Speaker 3: her own stuff in an office or a I don't

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Speaker 3: know if they had Kinkos back then, but he got

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Speaker 3: into those and founded his own first underground magazine called Orpheus,

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Speaker 3: which had some politics to it, but it was kind

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Speaker 3: of just a little groovy psychedelic thing that covered like

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Speaker 3: music and pot and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Tell them about the issue with the peace sign in

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Speaker 2: the bullet hole.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a peace sign on the cover that

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Speaker 3: actually had a real bullet hole. So instead of just

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Speaker 3: drawing a bullet hole, he shot them up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he himself shot bundles the stacks wrapped together with

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Speaker 2: a Colt forty five handgun to really kind of drive

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Speaker 2: the point home.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's creative.

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Speaker 2: That is an underground zine right there. If it has

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Speaker 2: a bullet hole in it, that the publisher put there,

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Speaker 2: that's really.

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Speaker 3: Something with real blood.

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Speaker 2: Right, you said something that I think is really worth

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Speaker 2: pointing out because there's a whole camp of people who

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Speaker 2: tell this origin story of High Times, and Thomas King

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Speaker 2: farsade that it was like just some money making scheme

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Speaker 2: or just a lark or something like that. This guy,

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Speaker 2: in actuality was a dedicated First Amendment warrior, like dedicated.

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Speaker 2: And also he was very committed to the counterculture, not

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Speaker 2: just because he sold tons of weed, but he genuinely

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Speaker 2: believed in legalizing marijuana, that that was a crucial thing

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Speaker 2: to do in the United States. And he put his

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Speaker 2: money where his mouth is. And like you said, he

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Speaker 2: started with underground zines and then he took up I

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Speaker 2: saw that he joined or he founded. I couldn't tell

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Speaker 2: which one was correct. What it's basically like an associated

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Speaker 2: press for underground magazines. It was called the Underground Press Syndicate,

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Speaker 2: and I think it changed its name to something else, right,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure.

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Speaker 3: I always saw it called UPS.

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Speaker 2: Well, we'll just call it that. But it was, like

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Speaker 2: I said, the ap where you could you could like

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Speaker 2: get all sorts of news about drug busts or about

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Speaker 2: you know, some spectacular pot harvest or something to do

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Speaker 2: with underground culture, and you could just print it in

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Speaker 2: your your local mag and the people in Phoenix are

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Speaker 2: reading the same thing as the people in Denver, but

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Speaker 2: they don't know that. They just think it's like part

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Speaker 2: of your magazine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And he eventually worked his way up to national

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Speaker 3: coordinator for the Underground Press Syndicate, and that's where he

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Speaker 3: learned how to run a magazine basically, as how he

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Speaker 3: learned about ad deals, distribution, printing like efficient printing, real

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Speaker 3: printing for a little while, and I figured we should

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Speaker 3: probably do something on Abby Hoffman and the yippies at

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Speaker 3: some point. All right, as you know, want to highlight boomers.

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Speaker 2: Do you know it's That's not that I just think

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Speaker 2: that guy's gotten more than enough of his spotlight. But yes,

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Speaker 2: it's all right, you know what, then forget it? Okay, Wow,

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Speaker 2: I didn't think I was going to talk you out

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Speaker 2: on that one.

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Speaker 3: Hey, if you want to learn about Abby Hoffman, you're

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Speaker 3: not going to learn about it here. Everybody go steal

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Speaker 3: his book, yeah, or read very nice. I got that one.

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Speaker 3: Uh So he did join up with Hoffman though and

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Speaker 3: his yippies. Again, if you want to read about them.

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Speaker 3: They were a group that did a lot of like

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Speaker 3: kind of social pranks and media grab you know, activist

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Speaker 3: stuff for their radical causes. In nineteen seventy, for said

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Speaker 3: for sad.

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Speaker 2: He said, yeah, because if you take out the oh

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Speaker 2: and change or no, if you change the O to

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Speaker 2: and A and take out the R, you've got facade

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Speaker 2: like the reund of a building. H So I'm making

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Speaker 2: an educated guess here.

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Speaker 3: I think you're probably right, but I'm just I've been

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Speaker 3: saying it wrong all day so in my head, so

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Speaker 3: it's going to take a minute.

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Speaker 2: It's okay. I was reading the High Times archives and

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Speaker 2: I guess they had some like sixth grade trained ai

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Speaker 2: scan and altar or turn all of their magazine photos

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Speaker 2: into text, and boy, it came up with some creative

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Speaker 2: ways of spelling that guy's name.

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Speaker 3: Well, you also sent me a lot of fun ads

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Speaker 3: for cocaine paraphernalia. Dude, that was crazy.

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Speaker 2: There is few things that are funner but also more

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Speaker 2: shocking then looking at vintage cocaine paraphernalia ads that appeared

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Speaker 2: in the likes of High Times and other magazines. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and there was one that I pointed out to you

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Speaker 2: that was just like this thing should be in the Smithsonian.

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Speaker 2: It was a metal probably like a gold plated coke tube.

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Speaker 2: So you put one end in the coke and you

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Speaker 2: put the other end up your nose and you sniff,

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Speaker 2: right just in case you didn't know how to jest cocaine.

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Speaker 3: How that worked.

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Speaker 2: It shaped like an old school vacuum cleaner, and so

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Speaker 2: the coke goes into the bottom of the vacuum cleaner

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Speaker 2: and comes out the handle, which is up in your nose.

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Speaker 2: They call it the finger instead of the hoover. Like,

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Speaker 2: whoever came up with this is just that's dedication right there,

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Speaker 2: because that's the kind of idea you'd just be like, man,

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Speaker 2: we should totally make this. But then the person actually

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Speaker 2: went and made it and sold it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then McDonald tired them to develop their happy

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Speaker 3: Meil prices. Right, they're like, this guy's really good at

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Speaker 3: these tiny little bubbles.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, And if you knew what you were doing, you

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Speaker 2: could clip the ends off of all those prizes and

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Speaker 2: then as.

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Speaker 3: Cooks charge all right, So in nineteen seventy that's where

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Speaker 3: we were. Four Sad testified before Nixon's Presidential Commission on

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Speaker 3: obscenity and pornography. And this is when he got a

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Speaker 3: real chance to you know, take the national stage and

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Speaker 3: talked about well, he the quote was the only obscenity

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Speaker 3: is censorship, and it's the first and I feel like

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Speaker 3: we talked about this in our pie in the face

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Speaker 3: episode it had, But it's the first incident that we

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Speaker 3: know of where a protest pie in the face happened.

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Speaker 3: When he pulled out a cream pie and face pied

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Speaker 3: doctor doctor Larson, doctor Otto Larson.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who was the chairman of that committee on Obscenity

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Speaker 2: in Pornography?

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, and that must be the first one. I

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Speaker 3: mean it's cited as the first time. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 3: not in a Marx Brothers movie. Somebody's like, let me

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Speaker 3: make a point with this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It was a form of protest that picked up

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Speaker 2: really quick. I mean, there's few things you can do

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Speaker 2: to somebody publicly that is more disrespectful and humiliating but

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Speaker 2: also non injurious than the face. But he did that.

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Speaker 3: He didn't happen anymore.

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Speaker 2: He was called to testify, and not only did he

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Speaker 2: say that censorship is the true obscenity, he said he

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Speaker 2: said f censorship and f you, and then he pied

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Speaker 2: the guy in the face and a congressional hearing this

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Speaker 2: is what he did. This is just the kind of

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Speaker 2: person he was, like. He wasn't somebody who just talked

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Speaker 2: a big game like this guy followed through on the

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Speaker 2: stuff that he really believed in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and he also let that pie sit out the

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Speaker 3: day before in Phoenix. So it was Ryan green.

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Speaker 2: Yick.

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Speaker 3: Should we take a break? Sure? All right, let's take

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Speaker 3: a break and we'll talk about the beginnings of the

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Speaker 3: magazine right after this.

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Speaker 1: Stuff you should know, Josh and shock stuff you should know.

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Speaker 3: All right, So we've introduced our protagonist. I guess in

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Speaker 3: the in the first act we we can't And you know,

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Speaker 3: Dave helped us put together this article and he he

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Speaker 3: points out that if you tried to get I mean,

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Speaker 3: you could do a whole article on this guy and

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Speaker 3: talk about all the all the wacky things he did

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Speaker 3: over the years, like concert festival promotion. He snuck allegedly

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Speaker 3: pipe bombs into the seventy two Republican Convention.

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Speaker 2: Later on, he followed the sex pistols around and co

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Speaker 2: produced a documentary on them called doa Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So he was a busy guy. Doing a lot of stuff,

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Speaker 3: but this is about High Time. So the origin story

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Speaker 3: officially for High Times magazine is that he thought of

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Speaker 3: it with his friends while he was huffing nitrous oxide.

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Speaker 3: Other people say it might have been an acid trip,

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Speaker 3: but either way, the early idea was, hey, how about

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Speaker 3: how about a magazine like a marijuana theme magazine. They've

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Speaker 3: got Playboy, and some people say, like the initial idea

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Speaker 3: was just a one off kind of spoof of Playboy,

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Speaker 3: but everyone that worked there said, no, no, no. The idea

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Speaker 3: was always to have like a real magazine that was

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Speaker 3: cheeky and fun but also like real journalism and tackled

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Speaker 3: real topics about activism and marijuana and growing it and

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Speaker 3: all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Right exactly. Michael Kennedy, who for Sad's personal attorney and

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Speaker 2: then came on as High Times legal counsel from like

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Speaker 2: the beginning until I think twenty sixteen when he died,

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Speaker 2: he explained it that High Times was meant to be

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Speaker 2: a way to use free speech to teach people how

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Speaker 2: to grow pot, and that like they basically had found

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Speaker 2: a loophole thanks to the First Amendment that they could

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Speaker 2: disseminate all of this information as far and as wide

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Speaker 2: as they possibly could, and in teaching people to grow

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Speaker 2: their own pot, that would eventually change attitudes about pot

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Speaker 2: and potentially lead to legalization. And as we'll see that

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Speaker 2: they were successful in that quest that they started back

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Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy four.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and I think, I mean, I think

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Speaker 3: it absolutely did that. I think one of the missions was, hey,

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Speaker 3: let's really convince people. Not convinced, but let's really show

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Speaker 3: people what the truth is, which is that this is

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Speaker 3: a plant that can be grown like plant versus you know,

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Speaker 3: illicit drug, you know.

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Speaker 2: Right, or illicit drug versus illicit drug. Like at the time,

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Speaker 2: the Controlled Substances Act of nineteen seventy had just been

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Speaker 2: passed thanks to Richard Nixon and marijuana, which, by the way,

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Speaker 2: I read is not at all racist. There was a

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Speaker 2: Latino i think historian who researched it and he's like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's actually myth, so good for him. That it was

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Speaker 2: a schedule one, which I think it still was until

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Speaker 2: like this year, which means that it has, according to

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Speaker 2: the government, no medicinal value whatsoever, and the high potential

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Speaker 2: for abuse, and both of those are just absolute lies.

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Speaker 2: They're just not correct, they're not true. They knew this

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Speaker 2: back in nineteen seventy and that this Controlled Substances Act

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Speaker 2: kicked off the War on Drugs, which in retrospect most

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Speaker 2: people now agree was misguided in a huge waste of

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Speaker 2: money and killed a lot of people. And this was

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Speaker 2: the era that they incarcerated, Yes, incarcerated. It's a big

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Speaker 2: one too. But it was in this era, the beginning

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Speaker 2: of this era, that High Times started to kind of

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Speaker 2: become not just an idea but an actuality. So they

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Speaker 2: wanted to fight that, which was part of the reason

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Speaker 2: they were willing to like use mockery or just all

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Speaker 2: of their articles had a slant to it because they

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Speaker 2: felt like they were taking on liars, and that's a

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Speaker 2: legitimate way to respond to liars is through mockery or

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Speaker 2: really kind of pushing your agenda against them. But that

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Speaker 2: was a huge, I think, impetus for creating High Times

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Speaker 2: for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely so. That very first issue came out summer

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Speaker 3: of seventy fours when it debuted, had a ten thousand

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Speaker 3: copy print run, and it didn't really light the world

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Speaker 3: on fire. I guess no pun intended. First it was

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Speaker 3: it had like an excerpt from a Timothy Leary novel.

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Speaker 3: Of course, articles about hempen marijuana and how great they

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Speaker 3: thought it was. There were some interviews, and very importantly

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Speaker 3: they had a something that would, you know, stay in

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Speaker 3: the magazine, which was a feature called the trans high

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Speaker 3: market market Quotation, which is a listing of like, hey,

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Speaker 3: in Chicago, this is how much a dimebag costs. This

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Speaker 3: is how much it costs in New York. This is

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Speaker 3: what announced we'd cost in Phoenix. You know what they

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Speaker 3: I guess they still call it street value, which I

349
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Speaker 3: always thought was really funny. Yeah, but that's that's what

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Speaker 3: it was. And it stayed in there for a long time,

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Speaker 3: even though, as we'll talk about later, it changed a

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Speaker 3: little bit over the years. But this first issue, like

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Speaker 3: I said, was not I mean, they did eventually sell

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Speaker 3: out of that ten thousand, but it wasn't through It

355
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Speaker 3: was through a lot of hustling. It wasn't like, hey,

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Speaker 3: it's on your news stand for sad said here, let

357
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Speaker 3: me get it into headshops, let me send them to

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Speaker 3: record stores. Apparently drug dealers bought copies and gave them

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Speaker 3: away to people. So it eventually did sell out the

360
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 3: two printings, but it was The second issue is when

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Speaker 3: it really really took off because of their you know,

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00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,040
Speaker 3: kind of ingenious promotion.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they threw a launch party at the Grammercy

364
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Speaker 2: Park Hotel in New York and invited like a bunch

365
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Speaker 2: of media and just got them messed up, like straight

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Speaker 2: button down media types, journalists, some like TV news people

367
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 2: showed up and we're like giving brownies and like here

368
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Speaker 2: trying nitrous oxide and have you ever had cocaine? And

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Speaker 2: I read a quote from Michael Kennedy, the legal council

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Speaker 2: for High Times. He said that he remembers three or

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Speaker 2: four lawsuits being brought against High Times from people who

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Speaker 2: got so wasted for the first time in their lives

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Speaker 2: that they decided to sue the magazine for it.

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Speaker 3: I could see that. Apparently. It was also, if not

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Speaker 3: the first, one of the first times like live television

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Speaker 3: showed people doing drugs. That was one of the local

377
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Speaker 3: news stations, according to Rolling Stone, showed people on camera

378
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 3: on the news snorting cocaine. And I'm sure people at

379
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 3: home are watching this just going on, like what is

380
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:17,120
Speaker 3: going on? But it was huge publicity and they sold

381
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 3: out their fifty this time fifty thousand copy run in

382
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 3: four weeks and it became like a genuine sensation. That's

383
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 3: when also the second issues when they started also as

384
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,119
Speaker 3: an homage to Playboy magazine their centerfold ye, but of

385
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 3: course their centerfold was always these these big, beautifully photographed

386
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 3: pictures of buds marijuana Budd.

387
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Speaker 2: The first one. I would take issue with the idea

388
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Speaker 2: that it was beautiful. It was a twenty pound brick

389
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 2: of schwag, just brown and compressed and ugly bit. But

390
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 2: at the time it was like their premier weed, Colombian

391
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Speaker 2: and just another aside. I'm sorry about this, but I

392
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,640
Speaker 2: so I've always wondered in Hey nineteen, the Steely Dan

393
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 2: song when he says the Cuervo gold and the fine Colombian,

394
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,360
Speaker 2: is he talking about cocaine or is he talking about pot?

395
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Speaker 2: And I went and researched this and I stumbled into

396
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 2: like a long standing argument.

397
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 3: Oh really, yeah.

398
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 2: I read an explanation from one person and it sounded

399
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 2: pretty legit. They said, it's one hundred percent pot that

400
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 2: they were talking about. That's what you called really good

401
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 2: pot back in the seventies. It was Colombian and it

402
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 2: wouldn't have referred to cocaine in the first place, because

403
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,919
Speaker 2: at that time most of the cocaine came from Peru.

404
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 2: Colombian farmers hadn't really taken up coca production, and so

405
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 2: most people, if you were aware of cocaine, you were like,

406
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: this is some fine Peruvian. You wouldn't say this is

407
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 2: some fine Colombian. So it seems like that guy settled it,

408
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 2: at least in my mind.

409
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 3: Hey, that could have been the original lyric. You never

410
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 3: know what. It depends on the day.

411
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 2: Probably, I guess it does.

412
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,159
Speaker 3: Sure, have you seen the yacht Rock documentary yet? On Max?

413
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 2: No? It's pretty good, Like about the people who came

414
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 2: up with yacht rock.

415
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, the people who came up with the

416
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 3: term yacht rock are featured in it, But it's about

417
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 3: the genre of music.

418
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Like it goes back to the seventies and eighties.

419
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 3: Well yeah, what else would it be about.

420
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 2: Well, there's a there's a band called yacht rock that

421
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,959
Speaker 2: kicked it all off, and I don't know, Oh, oh.

422
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 3: You mean like the yacht rock review? Yes, no, no,

423
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 3: no, no could with them. The term yacht rock was came

424
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 3: about in early two thousands from a web comedy series Okay,

425
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 3: which I never knew until I saw this documentary. But no,

426
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,120
Speaker 3: it's about just you know, Christopher Cross and Michael McDonald

427
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 3: and Seals and Croft, all the great people. You'd enjoy it.

428
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 2: I think have you seen the limited series Black Doves

429
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 2: with No?

430
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 3: I have not.

431
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 2: It's a British spy thriller like Theater ten episode.

432
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Speaker 3: Say No More, Sho.

433
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 2: It's really good.

434
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,479
Speaker 3: I mean you can say more, but I just mean

435
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 3: I'm into that kind of thing.

436
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 2: No, I'm with you. Just go watch it. I recommend it.

437
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 3: Elsee. I always say these things in we're recording and

438
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:05,640
Speaker 3: then I don't remember afterwards.

439
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 2: Just text me and be like, what was the thing

440
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 2: with the thing?

441
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: Once?

442
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 3: You text me? Right now while I talk Black does.

443
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 2: I don't have my phone on me. It's in the charger.

444
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, that's right.

445
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 3: So mid seventies when High Times rolls out, those very

446
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 3: first years, the magazine was doing really well, but as

447
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 3: a as a you know, sort of a new magazine.

448
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 3: But Forsad was not. He was on the FBI surveillance list.

449
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 3: He was very paranoid because of the massive amounts of

450
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 3: drugs that he was taking.

451
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 2: Well but also rightfully so, the FBI impossibly even the

452
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 2: CIA was infiltrating the counterculture and playing informants. And there

453
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 2: was a time where he was like, there's an informant

454
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 2: here of the High Time staff, and I don't know

455
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 2: which one of you it is.

456
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 3: There may have been.

457
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's possible, like he had reason to be paranoid

458
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 2: at the very least, but it was definitely fueled to

459
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 2: extremes through his drug use, for sure.

460
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, the magazine itself was doing well. Like I

461
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 3: said that, the staff, I mean, it was just I mean,

462
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 3: if you think that, like the Lampoon and Mad magazine

463
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 3: was kind of crazy in their office, Like everybody in

464
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 3: the High Times office was huffing nitrous and smoking weed

465
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 3: and snorting blow like as they were working. But it was,

466
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 3: you know, it was creating like some really relevant journalism.

467
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 3: They were exposing, you know, government activities as far as

468
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 3: the drug war goes. Like when putting paraquat, which I

469
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 3: cannot help but think of Big Lebowski when I hear

470
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 3: that word.

471
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 2: Remember that part.

472
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: It's when Jeff when the dude called the real Lebowski

473
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 3: a human paraquat when he was mad. I think you

474
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 3: said human even human paraquat. Yeah, but paraquat was the

475
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 3: pesticide that was in marijuana fields under orders from the

476
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 3: US and that this article helped promote a congressional investigation.

477
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 3: The interviewed the Dalai Lama about drugs. That was Hunter S.

478
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 3: Thompson and of course William S. Burrows doing writing. That

479
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 3: was Truman Capoti, did a guest interview with Andy Warhol.

480
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 3: Bob Marley was in it. Like it was really the

481
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 3: heyday of that magazine as far as being like a

482
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 3: real like they achieved what they wanted to achieve in

483
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 3: the first few years.

484
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's like some heavyweight underground stuff right

485
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 2: there that they got into their pages for sure. And yeah,

486
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 2: I think the latest thing you mentioned was nineteen seventy

487
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: eight with Truman Capodi and Andy Warhol. So this is

488
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 2: all in like the first four years that they're cramming

489
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 2: all this stuff in there. So yeah, right out of

490
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: the gate, it was. It was very successful in part, Chuck,

491
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 2: because there was nothing like this in existence before, I mean,

492
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: aside from some underground zines that fifty people read before

493
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: High Times. It became a national magazine, a national magazine

494
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: about pot and people who love pot and loved drugs.

495
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 2: And want to see them legalized, and here's how you

496
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 2: do it, and here's how you grow this stuff. And

497
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 2: today it seems like it's not a really big thing

498
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 2: to talk about pod or to find an article about

499
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: people smoking pot and Newsweek or whatever, right, And that

500
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 2: is because High Times existed and laid the groundwork for it.

501
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they by year four they had a

502
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 3: subscribership that was about the same as Rolling Stone magazine.

503
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 3: Yeah that's crazy, which is yeah, it's just nuts. In

504
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy eight, Forsyde had previous attempts at suicide, but

505
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 3: he succeeded in November of nineteen seventy eight, very sadly,

506
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 3: when he was just thirty three years old. I saw

507
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 3: different things that he know. It was after the death

508
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 3: of a friend that had him really upset. And like

509
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 3: I said, there were previous attempts, so he was a

510
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 3: troubled guy to say the least. But they held his

511
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 3: memorial atop the World Trade Center at the windows of

512
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 3: the World Restaurant, and as legend has it, smoked. I

513
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 3: think Keith Richards snorted his dad's ashes supposedly, but they

514
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 3: rolled up some of Forsade's ashes in joints and smoked

515
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 3: them as a staff.

516
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 2: That always reminds me of that episode from Six Feet

517
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 2: Under where the daughter finds some actors who are snorting

518
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: like their co Their co stars ashes jodita like cocaine

519
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: or something like that and died. And I can't remember

520
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 2: the daughter's name from Six Feet Under, but she finds

521
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 2: them doing this and just Claire, she just goes bonkers

522
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 2: on them, like what is wrong with you? It's really good,

523
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 2: it's very satisfying.

524
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 3: That's weird for Claire to be judging like that.

525
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 2: She was so morally offended by what she was seeing

526
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,959
Speaker 2: that she just unleashed on them. It was weird for her,

527
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: but it fit, yeah the moment.

528
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 3: I wonder if she was upset about her art class

529
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 3: at the time.

530
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,479
Speaker 2: I don't think she was there yet. I think she

531
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: was younger.

532
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so High Times. This is before as far as

533
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 3: the magazine itself, before Foresad died, they did start to

534
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 3: sort of stray from their mission statement a little bit.

535
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 3: As far as coverage of harder drugs, they started writing

536
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 3: a lot about cocaine, like in a big, big way.

537
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 3: They even started including cocaine and meth and LSD in

538
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 3: that trans high market quotation as far as how much

539
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 3: it should cost in different cities, and it was sort

540
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: of like, I think the adherence of the magazine even

541
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 3: were a little bit like, hey, this is not what

542
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 3: I signed up for, Like this was a weed magazine.

543
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 3: So they kind of got back to the weed thing more.

544
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 3: In the eighties, cocaine, you know, the reputation started to

545
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 3: get a little bit more like hey, wait a minute,

546
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 3: this stuff is like really dangerous and there's a lot

547
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 3: of violence attached to it, yea, and the trade, and

548
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 3: so they really got back to the pot thing again

549
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 3: in a big way, and they were just getting going

550
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 3: again in the eighties back to their mission statement, when

551
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 3: the DEA launched something called Operation Green Merchant, in which

552
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: they really wanted to target marijuana growth and not the

553
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 3: growth of marijuana, like growing marijuana plants and advertisements for

554
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: this equipment that was sort of thinly veiled as like

555
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 3: oh no, this these lights just help you grow your

556
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 3: letting your regano at home or whatever, garryer lettuce. And

557
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 3: so Operation Green Merchant was to target those ads and

558
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: the publications that sort of taught you step by step

559
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 3: how to do this right.

560
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: And so that. I mean, the DEA had tried to

561
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: take down High Times many times. This is the one

562
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 2: they almost got them with because it took out their advertisers.

563
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 2: Their advertisers went to jail or were run out of business,

564
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, a huge amount of High

565
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: Times regular advertising dollars just vanished, like overnight because of

566
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: Operation Green Merchant. It went up and smoked this right, sorry,

567
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 2: no worth it for sure. And they I read a

568
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: quote there they were saying like, at this point, High

569
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 2: Times was the verge of bankruptcy. The DA almost got them,

570
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 2: but they managed to just kind of slowly climb their

571
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: way back and get back into it in the nineties.

572
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 2: This is when I started reading High Times. It was

573
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: saved by hip hop. Yeah. Before Doctor Dre's The Chronic

574
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 2: album came out, Pot was just viewed as like, you know,

575
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 2: people who listening to like hippies or burnouts like Judas

576
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 2: Priest fans stuff like that. Yeah, that wo smoked pot

577
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 2: and they were just as likely to sniff glue at

578
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: the same time. Right then the Chronic came along and

579
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: it was it just exploded, like overnight, pot was totally

580
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: in fashion again and a whole new generation just got

581
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: into it, like really quickly.

582
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and High Times magazine, I mean they rolled right

583
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 3: with it, I mean right into the nineties. All of

584
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 3: a sudden, it's like, oh, well, now we can put

585
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 3: ice cube on the cover, and you know, right about

586
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,959
Speaker 3: this other sort of I mean, I guess you call

587
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 3: it a subculture that you know, we hadn't been highlighting

588
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 3: in the past, and you know, beyond making it relevant again,

589
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 3: I think they they found out they were missing out

590
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 3: on an entire like readership that they had never targeted.

591
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: Before, right for sure. And the one other impact that

592
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 2: it had too is they helped instruct people how to

593
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: set up your home grow system. So as like hydroponic

594
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: systems started kind of going from a thing you had

595
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 2: to put together by going to fifty different stores right too,

596
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 2: Like you can buy this entire hydroponic system through the

597
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: pages of High Times. They helped people learn how to

598
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: do that along the way, and as a result, POTT

599
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: just started. At the same time, when it became fashionable

600
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: again in the early nineties, it got exponentially better than

601
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: it had been leading up to that. It was like

602
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: somebody threw a switch and all of a sudden, pot

603
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: was what you see or think of it now, like

604
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: just sticky buds and gorgeous like beautiful flowers and all

605
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: that stuff like that really was much more potent. Like

606
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 2: that happened at about the exact same time as as

607
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 2: like the Chronic and Snoop Dogg coming out and all that,

608
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 2: Like ninety two ninety three is when it really changed.

609
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 3: I was talking to my friend Clay the other day

610
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 3: because he is who introduced us to the Chronic. When

611
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 3: we would I think I've said this before, but we

612
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 3: went over to his house and play like the Nintendo

613
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 3: whatever the system was. What was the one back then?

614
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 2: It wasn't the sixty four. Was it super nice?

615
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 3: Yeah? The sixty four?

616
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: Was it sixty four?

617
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 3: Yeah? So we go over there and play Street Fighter

618
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 3: and Mortal Kombat, and Clay one day was like, dude,

619
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 3: listen to this. Yeah, puts on the Chronic and Snoop

620
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 3: Dogg's voice came out of the speaker and we were

621
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 3: all into hip hop at the time, but Snoop Dogg,

622
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 3: he didn't sound like anybody else at the time, but

623
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,239
Speaker 3: when his voice came out, we were like, who is

624
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 3: this guy? It's like, oh my god, and like how funny.

625
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 3: And I was talking to him the other day. I

626
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 3: was like, how funny and back then, like, would you

627
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 3: ever think that? Now Snoop Dogg is like this. I

628
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 3: mean one of the most famous people in the world.

629
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 2: I know, the mascot of USA Olympics.

630
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean working with Martha Stewart. It's like, I

631
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 3: don't think anybody saw that coming.

632
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: Oh that was a good documentary too, by the way.

633
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 3: Oh, I haven't seen that one yet.

634
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 2: It's good.

635
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: Is it good? Hey? I don't know if everyone knows this.

636
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 3: Jerry's been to Martha Stewart's house.

637
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: I didn't know that, did I.

638
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, she told us a while ago. At one point

639
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 3: she was doing something with the company. I don't know

640
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 3: if whatever happened with that, but Jerry like went to

641
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 3: her house. She said it was a real mess.

642
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: That's crazy. I believe it though. It's probably like felt

643
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: scraps everywhere, and yeah, half half bone chicken and things

644
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 2: like that, just sitting around.

645
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 3: Hodge Podge bottles just spilled all over the place. No,

646
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 3: it's perfect. So High Times back to High Times from

647
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 3: eighty eight to twenty thirteen. That was an editor in

648
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 3: chief named Stephen Hager that ran the Joint and he

649
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 3: was God, man, I'm not even meaning to I swear

650
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 3: I'm not. He ran High Times magazine. This is when

651
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 3: they I mean, they had always talked about legalization, but

652
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 3: this is when they really really got into writing and

653
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 3: beating that drum about not decriminalizing but like legalizing weed

654
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 3: for everybody.

655
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like they moved that overton window and made just

656
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: the concept of legal weed something. They took it from

657
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: something like a dorm room conversation to this is how

658
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 2: you would do it. Here's a path to legalization, right states,

659
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, Yeah, And they just made it like

660
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: a potential thing, like a real concept. They brought it

661
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: into existence and helped push it along. I should say

662
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: they covered the people who were out there, like yeah,

663
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 2: coming into or bringing it into existence or really thinking

664
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: about it. But through covering them and exposing them to

665
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: millions of people every month, that kind of got the

666
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 2: whole idea out there.

667
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, the normal n r m L.

668
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: That was it, right, Yeah. Thomas Farsad helped bankroll them

669
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 2: in their early days, the National Organization for the Rethinking

670
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 2: of Marijuana Legislation, Reform of Marijuana.

671
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 3: Realization Reform, Yeah, reform. I went to one of the

672
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 3: norm the Atlanta Pimont Park used to have in the nineties,

673
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 3: the normal pot rally concerts you went to that. I

674
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 3: went to one of them one year when the Black

675
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 3: Crows played, and it was a lot of fun. It

676
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 3: was a great show. I liked them for a little

677
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 3: while back then, and it was really good.

678
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 2: You were sitting amid a sea of brass bowls with

679
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 2: like the Tai Die little plastic middles that you would

680
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: hold onto.

681
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, nobody was smoking weed. It was really weird.

682
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 2: That's a little weird. That's so Atlanta.

683
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 3: So yeah, they were advocate it such that there was

684
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 3: an article in twenty thirteen and the Nation that said

685
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 3: High Times magazine may be the most influential publication of

686
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 3: our era. So it wasn't just you know, cheeky articles

687
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: and pictures of beautiful buds. It was like they were

688
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 3: doing real, real work toward sea change.

689
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 2: And it worked, yes, And yet at the same time,

690
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 2: especially in like the magazine industry, they're just dismissed as

691
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 2: you know, they're just stoners. They're potheads, right, and they

692
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 2: don't care. They don't seem to. They don't go after awards,

693
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: they don't like submit their their writer's work for awards

694
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. They genuinely don't seem to care

695
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: about that kind of stuff because they're off doing like

696
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 2: their own thing and they're actually doing it. But I

697
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 2: saw a citation of how popular culture thinks of High

698
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 2: Times from They cited a Sarait Live skit featuring Jack Black,

699
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: and he played High Times top reporter and he was like,

700
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: I think at a press conference or whatever, and he

701
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 2: would stand up to ask a question and then he

702
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 2: would forget what he was gonna say every time. Yeah,

703
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 2: of course, Oh, I thought it was hilarious. I didn't

704
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 2: even know.

705
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 3: No, no, no, it's funny. I'm not saying it wasn't. I'm

706
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 3: just saying like, yeah, that's got to be the sketches

707
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 3: that he has no memory.

708
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 2: Right, But I could not find it anywhere, And it's uh,

709
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: I just read about it, like all the other stuff

710
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 2: I'm talking about. I didn't experience a first hand. I've

711
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 2: just read about it.

712
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 3: I feel like I saw it back then. But I

713
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 3: do remember that one of the issues I had, and

714
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 3: this had to be from the two thousands, was Tenacious

715
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 3: D was on the cover.

716
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think Jack Black himself was as well.

717
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 3: Well, I mean he is one half of Tenacious D,

718
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 3: but I mean just without Kyle. He's like, let me

719
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: do one without that guy. Yes, all right, we have

720
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: been remiss and not taking a second break. So we're

721
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 3: gonna do that now, and we're going to talk about

722
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 3: what has happened over the last decade or twenty years

723
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 3: or so right after.

724
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: This stuff you should know, Yash and shock stuff you

725
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: should know.

726
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck. So we were talking about how Stephen Hager

727
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 2: guided High Times through like a really prolific era. This

728
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 2: is like in the nineties. I feel like, and I

729
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 2: don't Maybe I'm just talking because that was the time

730
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 2: I came in contact with it. It feels like that's when

731
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 2: it really transitioned into like an iconic thing that was

732
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 2: never really gonna go away, even if it went away,

733
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.

734
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, agreed.

735
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 2: So in two thousand and four, as I understand it,

736
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 2: I believe Hager retired in two thousand and three, and

737
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 2: so the replacement they brought in for editor in chief.

738
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 2: As far as I know, I think we've both seen

739
00:38:58,560 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 2: conflicting stuff, right.

740
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, I might have said twenty thirteen to two, which

741
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 3: was it was probably two thousand and three.

742
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: Oh, gotcha. Okay, So Richard Stratton came in as the

743
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 2: editor in chief and he had bona fides. He served

744
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 2: eight years in federal prison for dealing pot.

745
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 3: Oh I thought you get talking about editor in chief bonafides.

746
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 2: No, he didn't have those. That was the other thing.

747
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: He was a journalist. He'd reinvented himself as a journalist.

748
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 2: I think he had some books under his belt. He

749
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 2: wasn't like a bad pick. He made a bad pick. Yeah,

750
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 2: he was very good friends with Norman Mayler, and in fact,

751
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 2: one of the reasons he went to prison is he

752
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 2: refused to implicate Norman Mahler in his pot dealing activities.

753
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 2: And when he became editor in chief of High Times,

754
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: he hired Norman Mahler's son, John Buffalo Mailer, who's twenty

755
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 2: five at the time. Yeah, hired him as executive editor.

756
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 2: And yeah, I like his name. John Buffalo Mailer had

757
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: zero publishing experience whatsoever. And the whole thing it was

758
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 2: just this is a bad time for High Times.

759
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. It was ill conceived. I think they didn't quite

760
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 3: know where to go after the sort of it's not

761
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 3: like the hip hop era ended any you know, mention

762
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: of weed or anything like that, but it was sort

763
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 3: of past that. You know, everything changes from decade to

764
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 3: decade culturally, and they didn't quite know what to do,

765
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 3: I think, so they said, hey, why don't we do this,

766
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 3: Why don't we try and sort of change the image

767
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 3: of the magazine and become just more of a sort

768
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 3: of a cultural magazine, like essentially, let's stop writing about

769
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 3: weed exclusively and let's really stop writing about weed almost

770
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 3: all together. And that lasted for about a year. They

771
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 3: did not like that. The readership was like, what are

772
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 3: you doing. The whole point of this magazine is that

773
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 3: it's high times and it's not, you know, about freedom,

774
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 3: it's about freedom to smoke weed specifically and grow it specifically.

775
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 3: And like I said, about a year later, in fact

776
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 3: it was one year later. I think they were like,

777
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 3: we really screwed up here. And so they went back

778
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 3: in two thousand and five with a big cover that

779
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 3: said the Buds are back and thirty pages of pot

780
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 3: picks on the inside, and everyone was like, oh, thank god,

781
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 3: and it was one of their best selling issues of

782
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 3: all time.

783
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they brought Steve Hager back in to kind

784
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 2: of right the ship again. Ah okay, and he did.

785
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: Like this, High Times started the idea that we should

786
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 2: legalize marijuana, worked at it ceaselessly for decades, and finally

787
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 2: was still around when that change started happening. States started

788
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 2: talking about actually legalizing pot, not decriminalizing, but legalizing pot.

789
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,959
Speaker 2: Like you said, not just for medicinal purposes, but hey,

790
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: if you're an adult and you want to smoke pot,

791
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: go ahead and smoke pot. You're not going to get

792
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: in trouble because we don't have any laws against it anymore.

793
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 2: Like this was starting to happen, and High Times was

794
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 2: right there, totally poised to just just step up and

795
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 2: accept its kudos and it's huge, like rise to prominence.

796
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: As this new changed culture around pot was about to

797
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: just explode. And around this time private equity got involved

798
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 2: and everything went down the toilet.

799
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's the irony of this whole thing,

800
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 3: is right when they achieved all that is when they

801
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 3: tanked because of what's called the green gold rush Wall Street.

802
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 3: Of course, anytime they're like, oh wait a minute, somebody's

803
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 3: making money over they're doing something a lot of money. Well,

804
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 3: how can we get involved? And that's exactly what happened.

805
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 3: They started investors started throwing money money at every cannabis

806
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 3: startup you could think of, as states were rolling out

807
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 3: legalization and making tons and tons of money, and so

808
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 3: they realize, hey, this High Times magazine is just sitting there.

809
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 3: It's a very recognizable brand. The magazine's okay, their website's

810
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 3: all right, but they make like eighty percent of their

811
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 3: dough from what's called the Cannabis Cup, which is I

812
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 3: think it started out as a smaller thing in Amsterdam

813
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: but then became like the official High Times Cannabis Cup

814
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 3: in the United States in twenty ten, which is a

815
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 3: you know, a weed growing competition. So like bring in

816
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 3: your new strains of like exotic cross breeds and like

817
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 3: high potency buds and you can win the Cannabis Cup

818
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 3: and it's a big deal. It received a lot of

819
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 3: coverage there were they did concerts, they did festivals, they

820
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 3: did trade shows, and it was, you know, a big

821
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 3: money maker. So I think they were like, hey, we

822
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 3: can invest in High Times. We can open up a

823
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 3: casino in Vegas. Maybe they bought up a dozen dispensaries

824
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,479
Speaker 3: and made them High Times smoke shops, they talked about

825
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 3: delivery services and all they talked about an IPO for

826
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 3: a while, which never happened. But all of this stuff,

827
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 3: a lot of these big deals never came to fruition,

828
00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 3: and so they found themselves eventually one hundred million in

829
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 3: debt as these deals fell apart after going through just

830
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 3: a string of CEOs, which is never it's always a

831
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 3: bad sign for a company, you know, when you have

832
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 3: that kind of CEO turnover. Yeah, and a lot of

833
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 3: those dispensaries closed, and in the in the middle of

834
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 3: the boom of the real marijuana industry, High Times was

835
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 3: struggling and basically dead.

836
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 2: Again because private equity got involved.

837
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 3: That's right.

838
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 2: There's a really good political article called The Long Fall

839
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: of High Times by Ben Schrekinger. Yeah, and it's really

840
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 2: worth three It's very long, but it's good. And that

841
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 2: article puts the blame on Adam Levin, who ran Oreva Capital.

842
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 2: He's the one who came in as the private equity

843
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: guy and made all of these terrible decisions, did shady

844
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 2: stuff like the announcements for you know, some of these

845
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 2: business ventures, like they would announce them publicly and then

846
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 2: the other company involved would have to come out publicly

847
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: and be like, they haven't even a just about this.

848
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: What they just said is not true, So that's not

849
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 2: a good thing to do. That IPO was a big

850
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 2: deal too, because if you have investors, they want you

851
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,919
Speaker 2: to go public and then they can really start making

852
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 2: money off the company. He just couldn't get it together

853
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: to get the IPO out the door. Yet that didn't

854
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 2: keep them from selling pre sale shares at eleven dollars

855
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 2: a piece to High Times readers, promising them they were

856
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 2: getting in on the bottom floor before the IPO even happened.

857
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 2: Just shady stuff, and so this lasted for just a

858
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 2: couple of years before the magazine. The whole brand went

859
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 2: into receivership, meaning that there was a corner pointed person

860
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: who was in charge of their assets who would try

861
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: to figure out how to help them get out of

862
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 2: bankruptcy or how to help them get out of a

863
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 2: hole without going into bankruptcy while at the same time

864
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 2: paying off their creditors. And I guess it didn't really

865
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: work because in I guess May of last year, the

866
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: receiver said, Hey, we're going to have a fire sale.

867
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 2: Everybody step up, get out your check books. Let's do

868
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 2: this thing.

869
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, seven million bucks will get you the magazine, the

870
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 3: cannabis cup, the dispensaries that we still have open. Nobody

871
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 3: came forward, which is shocking. I think the most shocking

872
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 3: thing to me that I'm going to say this publicly.

873
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 3: I'm going to call out publicly even why hasn't Snoop

874
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 3: Dogg and freaking Martha Stewart they would miss seven million dollars.

875
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 3: They wouldn't even know it's gone. Why have they not

876
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 3: bought this brand? Because that sort of public like purchase

877
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 3: with those two names, or even if it's just a

878
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 3: Snoop Dogg, but Martha Stewart would add a funny sort

879
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 3: of cachet to it. Yeah, like it would all of

880
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 3: a sudden be a relevant thing again. And I don't know,

881
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 3: it's just it's shocking that nobody came forward to buy it.

882
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,879
Speaker 2: I hope that that ends up being like your Sharknado thing,

883
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 2: or like good Jared from Subway thing, or like your

884
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 2: Hugh Jackman Greatest Showman thing. I hope that to you.

885
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 3: Oh, maybe somebody who knows Snoop hears this and they're like, hey, Snoop,

886
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 3: he may not even know it's for sale.

887
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 2: You know, it's possible he's been on the cover a bunch,

888
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 2: but he might not be paying attention, you know.

889
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, they could say snoop, High Times is for sale,

890
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 3: you should buy it, and he would say for snizzle.

891
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 2: Right. So I read a great quote from pot Culture magazine,

892
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: So High Times has just stopped. They put out their

893
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 2: last published issue in twenty twenty four, and the fact

894
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 2: that they were still putting out a print magazine actually

895
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 2: says how strong the brand was at Oneman, Yeah, because

896
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 2: they went right through that time where magazines were just

897
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 2: folding print, anything was just folding left and right. And

898
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 2: yet they still had the print magazine and they had

899
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 2: a pretty heavyweight website too. High Times dot com their

900
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: whole archive, all the magazines on it, and yet the

901
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: website hasn't been updated since June twenty twenty four. The

902
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 2: last issue was September two, twenty twenty four. If you

903
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: go on to the site, none of the images work.

904
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 2: They're all great, Yeah, rectangle disappointing. And pot Culture magazine

905
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: put it that the once mighty High Times dot com

906
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: is gone, reduced to an error message that is reminiscent

907
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: of finding your favorite uncle dead on the floor.

908
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 3: I saw that quote.

909
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody could have put it better than that.

910
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. I also just realize as the ultimate

911
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 3: fifty something year old white guy, I think it would

912
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 3: probably be for shizzle and not for shnizzle, because for

913
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 3: sure would be for shizzle, right.

914
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 2: Sure, it would be for sure. But I think that

915
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 2: the things have evolved so much that that you're fine, Okay, okay, good,

916
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: so yeah, snoop, Martha, please do buy High Times because

917
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 2: the it's such an ignominious and is that the right

918
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 2: word or was I just deletrious to my own vocabulary?

919
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,959
Speaker 3: Ignominious, ignominious, ignoramus, I think is what you meant.

920
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: No, such an unclassy end. Yeah, it's just like that

921
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: magazine deserves better than that.

922
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe Jack Black, you're not going to miss seven

923
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 3: million bucks.

924
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe, I.

925
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,399
Speaker 3: Mean he might miss it for the afternoon, but then

926
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 3: he would say, but I've got this magazine now.

927
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 2: No, I'm with you. I think Martha Stewart has that

928
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 2: much laying under her and piles under her hodge Podge

929
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 2: bottles as you were talking.

930
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 3: About, you know, yeah, you're probably right.

931
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 2: Okay, Well that's it. About high Times. If you want

932
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 2: to know more about there's tons of tribute articles all

933
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 2: over the web to read. They're kind of fun. And

934
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 2: while you're doing that, it's time for listener mail.

935
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. This is from Rosa Lee and it's just a

936
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 3: very kind, sort of gentle reminder, which is always nice

937
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 3: to hear. Hey, guys, just taking me a while to

938
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 3: get this into words, and I hope it comes across

939
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 3: with care. It does.

940
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 2: But why do you suck so much?

941
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 3: Yeah? Exactly. As a woman in science who does science

942
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 3: every day, I just want to point out that technicians

943
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 3: are still scientists. In your episode on chemistry sets, you

944
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 3: rightly pointed out all the sexism in the past and

945
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 3: present and how science has presented to girls versus boys,

946
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 3: But you also feed into it a little bit when

947
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 3: you said that girls were funneled into technician jobs instead

948
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 3: of being the scientist. There are a lot of ways

949
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 3: to be a scientist, and technician is definitely one of them.

950
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 3: That's like saying that nurses aren't healers like doctors are.

951
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 3: A more accurate description is that women were and are

952
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 3: funneled into technician and now communication jobs and the sciences

953
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 3: and men to the professors and principal investigators. It is

954
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 3: better than it has ever been, I have to say,

955
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 3: but academia still hasn't figured it out, among other things.

956
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 3: And I'm glad to know that, Rosalie. And that's from

957
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 3: Rosalie Maltip.

958
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 2: That was a great reminder. We love love love being

959
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 2: reminded when it's pointed out to us that yes, we

960
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: fed into something that we were just totally unaware of,

961
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 2: especially if it's unjust.

962
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, technicians are scientists. Of course they are.

963
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 2: That's right. That should be a teachhert Maybe it will

964
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 2: be well. Thanks a lot, Rosie. We appreciate that big time.

965
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 2: And if you want to be like Rosalie and send

966
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 2: us an email like that, you can send it off

967
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 2: to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio.

968
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 3: Dot Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

969
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 3: For more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

970
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.