1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: one thirty two. The bombshell news last week that a 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: person of interest has been named in the death of 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: Hollywood icon Natalie Would. That po I person of interest 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: none other than TV star her husband Robert Wagner. We're 6 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: going straight to a police pressor that has just gone down. 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for 8 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: being with us, Allan, take me to the pressor. Good morning. 9 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: My name is Christopher Burgner and I'm the captain for 10 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department's Homicide Bureau. Thank you 11 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: all for coming out this morning. In two thousand eleven, 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department reopened the investigation of 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: Natalie Wagner Would and her drowning death. As a result 14 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: of these efforts, witnesses were identified in two thousand eleven 15 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: and two thousand twelve that weren't previously known. This case 16 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: remains a suspicious circumstances death, and the information that came 17 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: forward in two thousand eleven and two thousand twelve has 18 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: helped present a more articulate timeline in this case. I'd 19 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: like to thank the witnesses that came forward at that 20 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: time for providing information and reach out to the general 21 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: public for those that have firsthand knowledge of the circumstances 22 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: that occurred that night with Ms. Wood and turned over 23 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: to lieutend John Karina for additional information regarding this case. 24 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: H First of all, I have to apologize last week, 25 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: I got got that flu that's going around, as you 26 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: can tell, and so I got that deep, gravelly voice. 27 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: All I gotta take a break here and take a 28 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: drink of water. Bear with me. Um uh. As Captain 29 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 1: Bergner was saying, we open, we all were all it 30 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: tooking a look at this case back in two thousand eleven, 31 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: and that's what really the only press conference we did 32 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: on this case was back then, we uh held one 33 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: press conference, and from that press conference, we ended up 34 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: with like well over a hundred people came forward with 35 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: information about this case. People were very uh wanted to 36 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: get uh really want to get involved, and they want 37 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: to kind of tell us what they knew. And it 38 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: was extremely helpful because we end up identifying witnesses or 39 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: people who had information about the case and I've never 40 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: come forward, So they end up coming forward and telling 41 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: us their story. And that's one of the things we've 42 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: run into this case. In many cases, it is like 43 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: people don't think their information or what they know might 44 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: be might not be important. Well it wasn't this case, 45 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: and uh it's helped us recreate some of the timeline 46 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: and what happened on that weekend and then uh right 47 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: up to the point where Natalie Wood ends up going 48 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: into the water. So it's uh, it's been extremely helpful 49 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: for us. No, this was back in two thousand eleven, 50 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, two thousand thirteen. You know, it's been 51 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: a little while, but we've been investigating the case, and 52 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: up until about a year and a half ago, we 53 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: were still getting information and tips from people calling in, 54 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: although they were just trickling in then and things have 55 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: kind of dried up now. So we were approached by 56 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: a news agency you want to uh take another look 57 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: at the case. We thought it was a good a 58 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: good idea to try and go ahead and do that 59 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: and get it back out in the public eye. And 60 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: that's what we did. Uh. We thought it was a 61 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: good idea just let everyone know kind of where we're 62 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: at with the investigation and that's why we're here today, Nancy. 63 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: That news organization was the CBS show forty eight hours 64 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: and Los Angeles County Sheriff's Detective John Corrina continues answering 65 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: questions from reporters. Well, there's new witnesses and um there 66 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: has we have looked at um really what we've we 67 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: We've interviewed a lot of new people and people on 68 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: the island, people who were moving moored near the boat, 69 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: uh that night or that weekend, people who had a 70 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: knew the couple or had knowledge of what was going 71 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: on that weekend. So it's been extremely helpful in recreating 72 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: what happened. So in the forty hours before, there was 73 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: this discussion about these two individuals, the woman saying that 74 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: she had seen Mr or seen two people a man 75 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: and a woman on the back of the boat. They 76 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: heard the voices that identified they would and and Uhager, 77 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: who is this person? How is it that they didn't 78 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: think that was important in one and is there any 79 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: discussion about re interviewing UM. Well, the first part of 80 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: that question is there there's actually more than one witness 81 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: and who came forward and heard the good on the 82 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: back of the boat arguing and they What was important 83 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: about that is, uh, they corroborate what Dennis the Burn 84 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: was saying that he was on the boat and heard 85 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: the arguing and that is really intense and so bad 86 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: that he had went down to the cabin to check 87 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: on them because he was worried there was some kind 88 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: of assault going on, and that's when he was told 89 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: to go away by Robert Wagner and then Natalie Robert 90 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:09,799 Speaker 1: Wagner end up on the back of the boat arguing 91 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: and then it goes quiet. So those witnesses, we are 92 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,679 Speaker 1: on a different boat nearby, corrob rate exactly what Dennis 93 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: and Vernon was telling us. Um, And yes, of course 94 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: we want to talk to Robert Wagner we met. We 95 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,239 Speaker 1: would love to hear his side of his version of events. 96 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: The universial events he's he's put up trading the media. 97 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: I think, Um, we told that the Visional investigators and 98 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: we's he's portrayed since then really don't add up to 99 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: what we found or what we we would we found 100 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 1: by talking to other people and uh that weekend, what 101 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 1: they've seen, what they saw, what they heard. Lieutenant Corona 102 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: and his partner, Detective Ralph fer Nandez now say they 103 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: have testimony from two witnesses, both both of whom say 104 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: they heard a fight, one of him, according to her 105 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: Nandez quote, saw figures on the back of the Splendor, 106 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: a male and a female whose voices they recognized as 107 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood arguing important in the back 108 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 1: of the boat. Originally, the only information detectives had placing 109 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: the couple outside the boat was boat captain Dennis di 110 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: verne statement, But as Detective Corina tells forty eight hours, 111 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: they now have a witness who not only heard them, 112 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: but saw them. Saw figures in the back of the Splendor, 113 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: male and a female whose voices they recognized as being 114 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood arguing in the back of 115 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: the boat. And how credible are these new witnesses. They're 116 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: they're very credible under reason to lie in the in 117 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: the their story matches what Dennis de Verne says, like 118 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: to vern, both witnesses say the argument stopped suddenly, and 119 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden there was nothing, complete silence, 120 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: nothing but the sounds of a rough sea on a cold, 121 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: dark November nine, says the tennant Corina. No one saw 122 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: anybody go on the water. Nob we heard splash, Nobody 123 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: heard anything. They heard the argument and send silence. Joseph 124 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics at Jacksonville State University. That is big, 125 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, and I'll tell you why it places him. 126 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: Robert Wagner, the p o I person of interest at 127 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: the back of the yacht, where the dinghy is tied 128 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: up and where many people believe that's where she exited. 129 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: Let me say euphemistically, the boat right there at the dinghy. 130 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: He according to these two witnesses, not me, not Alan, 131 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: not Jackie, not Brian or anyone else too. Witnesses place 132 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: them at the back of the yacht, at the spot 133 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: of the dinghy, arguing in the night she goes overboard 134 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: along with the dinghy being let loose. That's bad. I 135 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: think from an investor stigative standpoint, I would have to 136 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: ask this question, though, how did the people that are 137 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: earwitnesses eyewitnesses, How did they recognize, specifically the voices of 138 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood distinguish them from all other 139 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: voices on the face of the planet. I would I 140 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: would have to press that question. Uh, maybe they did 141 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: here arguing, uh, maybe they did bear witness to it. 142 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: But I think that that's gonna be a big question 143 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: that's gonna come up all of a sudden, This kind 144 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: of floats to the surface, all of a sudden, these 145 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: these two people that materialize. It leaves me scratching my 146 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: head a bit here. What we do know, uh, in 147 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,119 Speaker 1: this particular case, is that the I've examined the autopsy 148 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: report many times on Natalie Wood and and even use 149 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 1: it in class to teach my classes with. She doesn't 150 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: have what we would commonly refer to as some kind 151 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: of fatal trauma, uh, where she's been hammered to the point, 152 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: beaten to the point where she is has a depressed 153 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: skull fracturing. I think most of the stuff that she 154 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: has are very superficial. But her lungs were filled with water. 155 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: We do know that, Nancy. We also know from the 156 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: ship Captain Dennis Diverne the details about the argument that 157 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: night after the couple and Christopher Walking returned from the 158 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: restaurant on the island. Here's how he and Detective Corina 159 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: explain it. To forty eight hours, Natalie puts on the 160 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: kettle to have a cup of tea, I light a 161 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: couple of candles, I opened a bottle of wine. Natalie 162 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: and Christopher continued to giggle, just having fun, and then 163 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: Robert Wagner, out of the clear blue, picked up the 164 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: bottle of wine, smashed her to break some goals everywhere, 165 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: and he yells at Walking, what do you try to do? 166 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: The wife? Everything just kind of stops Natalie. She said, 167 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: I cannot take this, and she went into her room. 168 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: According to Diverne, Christopher Walking also went to his room. 169 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: Then r J went into the room. Natalie and r 170 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: J's room started arguing, yelling, things being thrown about. At 171 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: that point, de Verne also leaves and goes up to 172 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: the bridge at the top of the boat, says Lieutenant Carina. 173 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: He hears the argue in the argument getting louder, and 174 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: he hears a lot of thumping. He says it sounds 175 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: to him like there's like a fizzle fight going on 176 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: inside there, to the point where he's so concerned. He 177 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: he walks back down and he knocks on the door, 178 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: and Robert Wagen opens the door, and he says he 179 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: has this looked crazy look on his face, and he says, 180 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: is everything okay? Boss? And he's like, go away. He 181 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: looks so angry. He says, I was worried about my 182 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: own safety that I just I left. I went back 183 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: up to the bridge. Take a listen to what Robert 184 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: Wagner himself says. Now his account of that evening is 185 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: very different. Walking and I got into an argument. At 186 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: one point, I picked up a wine bottle, slammed it 187 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: on the table and broke it into pieces. Natalie was 188 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: already below decks at that point. Ellen Kilaurin joining me 189 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: investigate a reporter with crime online dot Com. What do 190 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: you make of that? Well, Wagner had changed his story 191 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: a little bit even in the in the time when 192 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: he was speaking to investigators. Initially, he said that he 193 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: felt that Natalie wanted to get away from the argument 194 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: that she had been having with him all weekend and 195 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: went back to shore, went back to land. And then 196 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: later he said, well, maybe she went out in heard 197 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: the dinghy banking against the boat, tried to untie it 198 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: and slip and fell. Yes, you know, Ellen. In his 199 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight memoir, Wagner addressed the dinghy theory. 200 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: Let's listen, Natalie was in the master cabin and heard 201 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: the dinghy banging against the side. She got up to 202 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: retie it, she slipped on the swim step on the 203 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: stern and was either stunned or knocked on conscious and 204 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: rolled into the water. The loose stingy floated away. My 205 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: theory fits the few facts we have. Those are two 206 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: really different things, and both of them seemed pretty incredible 207 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: given what we know about Natalie, which was that she 208 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: was absolutely terrified of the water. And even if she 209 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: did hear the dinghy bangy against the boat, and when 210 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: she and wanted the noise to stop, she could have 211 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: asked the captain to do that. She didn't have to 212 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: go do that on her own. I think that I'd 213 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,839 Speaker 1: be very curious Nancy if she was debilitated in some 214 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: way hampered. Uh. And that's the big question I've you know, 215 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: I've I've asked for some time. Uh. Could drugs or 216 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: alcohol have played into this? I don't know that that 217 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: she had enough enough substances on board, uh to have 218 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: on her in her system that would have impaired her 219 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: ability to make good judgments here. Uh. And you know, 220 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: it just seems the whole thing seems like a red herring. Uh. 221 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: You know, for all these years, they're talking about two 222 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: guys having an argument over the wife and uh and 223 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: and suddenly you know, the dinghiest cut loose. She's found 224 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: floating in the water some period of tom later. It's 225 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: all very confusing. I don't find it that confusing. And 226 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: Dennis davern Uh came clean long ago. Take a listen. 227 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: I believe that Robert Wagner was with her up until 228 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: the moment she went into the water. I need all 229 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: the energy I can muster to continue giving it my 230 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: all being a mom of two and investigating the major 231 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: crimes across our country, like Natalie Woods tragic drowning. You 232 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: know how I do it. 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After years of investigation, in The Last Hours, 251 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: movie and TV star Robert Wagner named a person of 252 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: interest and the horrific drowning death of his wife movie 253 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: icon Natalie would how do you see Robert? Is he is? He? 254 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: As fact? Before he bet? A first of interest was 255 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: how do you well? He hasn't He hasn't always been 256 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: a person of interest. Obviously he was on the boat 257 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: or four people on the boat that night, one of 258 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: them ended up in the water debt um uh so. 259 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: But as the investigation progress, I mean, we were able 260 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: to recreate timeline and cut get it down to where 261 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: he was the last person with her on the back 262 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: of the boat, arguing before everything went quiet, and then 263 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: next thing you know, there's the bird comes down to 264 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: check on what happened, and there's Robert Wagner in the 265 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: salon of the boat. He's saying, Natalie's gone, she's missing, 266 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: you know, and then uh, he sends him to go 267 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: look around the boat to look for Natalie. It's not 268 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: that big of a boat. And next thing you know, 269 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: he tells moh and by the way, that Danny has 270 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: now done so it didn't make any sense knowing her. 271 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: The dan start up knowing her the d uh take off? 272 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: She she doesn't drive the dinghy um, I get one 273 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: and on. But yeah, it's just in uh right, now 274 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: he's officially a person of interest. Well is he's the 275 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: person interest because he's a last person with her before 276 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: she went in the water, right, so he's there, he's 277 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: the last one with her, and somehow she gets a 278 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: little water between a person. Well, you know, this is 279 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: a suspicious tenth investigation. It's not a murder investigation, so 280 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: he's not a suspect of vodka committing of murder or crime. 281 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: We're just trying to figure out what happened from that point. 282 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: From that argument and then how she got in the water. 283 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: But what the person just that he's a person of interest, 284 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: like uh, he was there with her, last person with 285 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: her before she ends up debt. Can you make him 286 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: talk to you? That the perfect because he's denied. Not 287 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: in the United States of America, we can't. No, he can. 288 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: He can say, uh, no, I don't want to talk 289 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,719 Speaker 1: to you. So and that's his right. We understand that. 290 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: And we've tried to talk to him, and so far 291 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: he's uh didn't want he didn't want to talk to 292 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: us a point where he decided we want to press 293 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: charges against him? No, he thought that. No, not right now. 294 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: That's like I said, it's suspicious death investigation. We're not 295 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: pressing charges on anyone. We're still trying to just figure 296 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: out what happened in this case. But it's so far 297 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: was that being would you say, there's anything of the 298 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: evidence that you have so far, physical evidence which would 299 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: indicate to where aggressive actions taken with the death? Well 300 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: there you know that that's um there were Yeah, I 301 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: would have to say, um, there was what Dennister Burne hurt. 302 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: You know, it sounded like a fight going on in 303 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: the Salanta and uh in their stateroom and their bedroom 304 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: sounded like Robert Wagner and Atalie Wood were fighting, and 305 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: he came down from the top of the boat to 306 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 1: check on him because he was woke so worried. He said, 307 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: Robert Wagner looked so angry, so crazy that he told 308 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: him he was afraid for his own safety. So he 309 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: went back up and Wagner to help get out of here. 310 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: So he went back up to the top of the boat. 311 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: And then they end up by the back of the 312 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: boat arguing before everything went quiet. And then yes, there 313 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: were bruises on Natalie Wood's body. That um now, that's 314 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: that's that's the corner's per view of Obviously they're the experts, 315 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: but they said that. They say they're non mechanical, they 316 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 1: aren't caused probably by another person whoever was there at 317 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: the end of it would have inflicted those injuries, which 318 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: could be consistent struggled fight or someone off of that boat. Yeah, 319 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: I can't say who who could cause the injuries, but uh, 320 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: they may have been. They could have been caused by 321 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 1: someone else's people in the vote, right, and we we 322 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: know who's living Before she went. The last person was 323 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: water boing with the water that was Mr Wagner in 324 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: this case. Today we were three years ago, we're closer 325 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: to understanding what happened. I think we're closer to understanding 326 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: and exactly what happened at weekend and how it kind 327 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: of went down. I think before we're all bleeding the story. Oh, 328 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: she must have gotten to day, tried to go into 329 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: town in her nightgown, her socks by herself when it's 330 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: raining out and the seas are really rough in there. 331 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: It's uh, you can't even see in the mid at midnight, 332 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: and um, which made no absolutely no sense if you 333 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: really think about it. So um, I think we'll have 334 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: a better understanding that what happened doesn't us No, he's 335 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: not no he uh. He was actually supposed to be 336 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: in the stayroom sleeping, and the diverne confirmed now, but 337 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: he went searching for Natalie Wood. He was in the 338 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: stayroom sleeping, two witnesses, he said, and separate from into 339 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: her previous need quoted at the stuff right that boyfriend job, Yes, separately, Yes, 340 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: her face that you believe will causepect someone else, and 341 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: you sounds like you don't believe that she got in 342 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: the day. What is it gonna take this to be 343 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: a murder investigation, and then at that point could Wagner 344 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: being suspect and then he'll be forced to talk to you. No, 345 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: we can never force him to talk to us. Obviously 346 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: he's uh, he has rights and he can he can 347 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: not talk to us. He doesn't want to, um suspect 348 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: or not. But no, onetime it's gonna turn out to be, 349 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: you know, to does he need an accident or murder? 350 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: Is we find out how she went the water? Is 351 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: she was she placed in the water? Was she unconscious 352 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: and then placed in the water. Was she put in 353 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: the water by somebody? Um so? Or did she accidentally 354 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: fall the water and nobody helped her? Body relevant inform 355 00:20:55,359 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: I'm try was that interview? No, we have note we 356 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: have got a lot of a lot of calls, people 357 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: calling him and saying they have some information and give 358 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: us Yes, so we haven't been picking up quite a 359 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: few callers, people leaving chills. You were his story over 360 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: the years, Well, uh, I'm no expert on this, but 361 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: I know his original story. What he said that happened 362 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: that weekend? Uh, you know they're all talking in the salon. 363 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: She went down the load of the bed. The statement 364 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: in her bedroom and next thing he knows, he goes 365 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: checks on her and she's gone, and so he figures, oh, 366 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: she must have gotten Dany win the town in her pajamas, 367 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: in her socks at the middle of the night for 368 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: some reason. She's telling in the training now she's gonna 369 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: go take the dan, but she never drives. But he 370 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: doesn't knew how to drive it and take it into 371 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: town when the when the verne suggests, hey, we should 372 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: turn on the light to look for he says, no, no, no, 373 00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: he said, of saying yeah, let's look for no, no, 374 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: no in the light on, Well, he says we should 375 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: call somebody. All his weight and and and he's on 376 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: the boat himself. He can hook his own boat and 377 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: go look for it. He doesn't even do that, and 378 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: Steady takes to burn up to the top of the boat, 379 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: starts playing with alcohol for next hour and a half, 380 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 1: getting him drunk while they wait around see what happens. 381 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: I want to go straight to Ellen Kilaurin joining me, 382 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: investigative reporter with crime online dot Com. Also with me, 383 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan Dessin, investigator, a professor of forensics at 384 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University. Dr Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist and 385 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: host of i d S hit series Fatal Vows. Alan 386 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: and Jackie joining in, Ellen, what can you tell me 387 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: about recent reports that have also just hit that. Robert 388 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: Wagner says he drank whiskey for an hour after Anally's vanishing. 389 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: That's right, um, this um in forty eight hour special 390 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: to speak on the captain of the Splendor. Dennis Deverne, 391 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: who has set for a long time that he believed 392 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: Wagner had something to do with it, said in the 393 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: show that he that Wagner knew around midnight that Natalie 394 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: was gone, but he refused to do anything to look 395 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: for her in the water. Daverne said, let's put on 396 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: the floodlights and look at look into the water, and 397 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: he said, no, no, no, she's probably just gone to shore. 398 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: And the two of them sat for over an hour 399 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: and drink whiskey before Wagner made a call to anyone, 400 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: which was about it one thirty before he called anyone 401 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: at all. Okay, to me, that's damning, but it's certainly 402 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: not enough to build a case at trial. That's not 403 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: enough to prosecute Actor Robert Wagner. Wagner, now facing intense 404 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: pressure regarding the boating death of his beautiful actress wife 405 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: Natalie Wood, allegations servicing, he sat up drinking whiskey with 406 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: the boat captain over an hour after Nally goes missing 407 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: before decided to call the coastguard. Now, the yachts captain 408 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: told me that himself. But listen to what he says 409 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 1: on forty hours, according to the story de Verne told investigators, 410 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: Wagner then breaks out a bottle of Scotch and the 411 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: two men sit drinking. Well more than an hour passes 412 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: before you know what. We're oblivious, and it's time we 413 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: have to call somebody. She's gone. We've long heard claims 414 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: that Robert Wagner, furious believing that Naliewood was floirting with 415 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: her co star in Brainstorm, Christopher Walking, that he smashed 416 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: a bottle of wine in front of them and said, Walking, 417 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 1: what are you trying to do f my wife? Well, 418 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: I guess that's the end of that party, right, Dr 419 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,959 Speaker 1: Brian Russell. I mean when someone he smashes a wine 420 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: bottle in front of your guest and accuses them of 421 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: trying to be with their wife. Yeah, that's the end 422 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: of that party, right, Yeah, and it really does. You're right, 423 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: it's uh, this is damning stuff and it paints a 424 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: picture of a potential and at least you hear this 425 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: and you can understand how it could have been a 426 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: fatal Vows case. At the same time, I'm worried, as 427 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: you know, we've discussed this before about this Russell. Dr Russell, 428 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: how is it that you managed to work in the 429 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: name fatal Vows into every conversation you would? Somehow you 430 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: work in investigation, discoveries, fatal Vows hit series. Okay, you 431 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: know what there? I think I've said it enough. I'll 432 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: say it some more. Okay, Dr Brian Russell, how should 433 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: this have been in your hit series fatal Vows? Go ahead? 434 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: Well more is yours? I don't know that it should. 435 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: And what I was gonna say is, I'm worried about 436 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: this trend that we're seeing where you know, a crime 437 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: happens a long time ago, and now here comes somebody 438 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: making a documentary or a Netflix series or a podcast 439 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,719 Speaker 1: or whatever about it, and all all of a sudden, 440 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,719 Speaker 1: we're getting news stories from the same people or different 441 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 1: stories from different people, And now there's a big if. 442 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: If it's somebody was found guilty before and now there's 443 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: a bunch of big exculpatory evidence, or if nobody was 444 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: found guilty before and now there's damning evidence. I'm worried 445 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: about that trend, and I don't I agree with you. 446 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: As interesting television as this may have made for forty 447 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: eight hours, I'm worried about putting too much stock in it, 448 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: especially when people are telling stories for the first time 449 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: that they supposedly have known for all these years, and 450 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: just now they're deciding when they have a chance to 451 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: be in a television spacy. Hey, hey, hey, right it in. 452 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell. Curb your enthusiasm just a moment. It's 453 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: not all on forty eight hours. What about what police say? 454 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: Listen to Lieutenant Corona and his partner, Detective Ralph Fernandez. 455 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 1: Mr Wagner reviews the community body. I think we've we've 456 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: talked about these two or three times, and uh threw 457 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: him into his attorney and uh he's refused talked to 458 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: us and these two new witnesses as an investigator thirty 459 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: years as the last and suddenly they remember something that 460 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: it's very interesting to you. I mean people tend to 461 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: change or view of things as time goes on. And 462 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 1: maybe they mean how credible or the new witness our 463 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: biggest our biggest challenges time right for maybe the witnesses 464 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: have passed away, people are with boats nearby. UM regional 465 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: investigator on the case passed away recently. So it's like, UM, 466 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: you're right, the times our biggest enemy here. We're going 467 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: to do what we can do. So we're reaching out 468 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: when last time, see if people anybody else will come 469 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 1: forward with information they know. Like I said, we already 470 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: getting a bunch of more calls just by doing this. 471 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,959 Speaker 1: Uh and um people are calling in and and offering 472 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: some some information. So and his production you have today 473 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: you can m called this a homicide or charge Mr Wagner. Yeah, correct, 474 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: that's right. Uh, well I was one of the unsolved homicide. 475 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: May add why park spending time on one? Um? Hm, 476 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: you know, we we were asked back in two thousand 477 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: eleven to look in this cases. That's something when we 478 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: went out and saw it. We were asked by the 479 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: Captain then of homicide back in two thousand eleven and 480 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: take a look at the case because some information came in. UM, 481 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: I wasn't even on the department, and I know Detective 482 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: Naz was on the department when this this incident even happened. 483 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: So we looked at it and said, yeah, there's some 484 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: there's some questions there, so we're taking a look at 485 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: So we did, and UM, I think it's just opened 486 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: up more questions and we actually I think we've from 487 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: the investigation, we have a much better idea of what happened. Man, 488 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: So I think it's been very productive. Um it's it's 489 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: actually made um give us more questions and made as 490 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: more suspicious of what happened that weekend anything without saying public, 491 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: is there a formal time based on all this information 492 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: that you're now assessed where you're gonna have to make 493 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: a decision for fiscal or other reasons to picture to 494 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: faith close this case permanently or continue to go ahead. Right, 495 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: I think you know we're doing our last uh shot 496 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: here and seeing when anybody else come forward with any information. 497 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: But you're right, we can't keep work in this case 498 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: when we work a lot of cases, and we juggle 499 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: a lot of cases, so we're not just working as 500 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: one we're doing other cases as well. So, UM, you 501 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: know we Uh, we work what weekend there's information to 502 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: follow up on me will and when the tips I'll 503 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: dry up and then I guess we move on the 504 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: next one. Next case. That pyday, we focused the people 505 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: on Cadi and Doug Barmbar, one of the bounder bodygas career, 506 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: boken to him he friendly believe who the evidence would 507 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: suggest that that the others were asleep on the boat. 508 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: But it was so roughing in the water, and the 509 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: dinghy was banging around, and she went back and try 510 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: to tie up the movie and it fell off the 511 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: boat in her head on the water and round does 512 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: not support that there, no, it doesn't this this is 513 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: all conjecture. Let's just make you know, let's make up 514 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: a story that I think might have happened. Um No, 515 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: one doesn't support that. And Netalie Woods a big movie star. 516 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: We will remember back then she's like one of the 517 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: biggest movie stars and she doesn't do that kind of stuff. 518 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: She's gonna tell Dennis the vern he's the boatcaretaker, take 519 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: care of that boat. And even the Verne said the 520 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: boat was not banging on the boat. The thinking was 521 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: not being on the boat. They tie it there all 522 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: the time. That's where they tie it, and they know 523 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: what they're doing. They go out all the time on 524 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: the boat. It's not like you can't just make up 525 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: a story that I think that's what happened. What do 526 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: you make of it? Dr Russell? The idea that there 527 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: was an argument aboard this vessel between Wagner and Wood 528 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: is not new. That's been out there for decades. The 529 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: big supposedly new news here is that Wagner supposedly sat 530 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: there drinking for a long time before saying, okay, we 531 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: better maybe alert the authorities that she's missing. Now you 532 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: can imagine that that perhaps he had something to do 533 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: with it, and so he thinks, Okay, I don't want 534 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: to alert the authorities for a while, because I want 535 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: to make sure that she's good and dead before they 536 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: show up on the scene. Don't want him to rescue her. Okay. Maybe, 537 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: But it's also possible that he really believed that she 538 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: left on her own volition, and and he was miffed 539 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: about that, and he thought, well, you know, okay, she 540 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: took off, she went ashore, she's she's doing what she 541 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: wants to do, and and he's drowning his sorrows and 542 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: alcohol and then after a while he he sort of thinks, well, 543 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: you know, I better make sure she made it to 544 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: shore safely. I'd better call the authorities and have him 545 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: look for so you know, the bottom line of this 546 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: for me is, I don't think we're gonna solve this 547 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: unless he had something to do with it and he 548 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: comes clean and confess. Is all these years later, I 549 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: don't think we're solving it. Take a listen to what 550 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: the person of interest, Natalie's husband, Robert Wagner TV star, 551 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: has to say. When you're in love, you're responsible for 552 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: the other one. She's responsible for me, and I was 553 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: responsible for her, and you know this accident that occurred, 554 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: I wasn't there. I wasn't there for her, and that's 555 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: always within me. Take a listen to it. Natalie's sister 556 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: Laana would tells us Laana, is it true that detectives 557 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: told you they were very close to making an arrest 558 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: in the case. Absolutely. They came to my home and 559 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,959 Speaker 1: said that they had everything they needed for an arrest 560 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: and that the district attorney would not move forward. And 561 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: I said, I don't understand, and he said, please get 562 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: a word out, because they feel that there's something going on, 563 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: and I said, fine, if somebody asks me, I will, 564 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: I will tell them. So they came to your house 565 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: and said they have enough for an arrest, but the 566 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: d A is sitting on it. Yes, did you believe 567 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: that they were referring to Robert Wagner. Did they tell 568 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,719 Speaker 1: you as Robert Wagner? Oh, of course, yes, yes, they 569 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: told you as Robert Wagen. They said Nancy, Natalie's sister 570 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: Lana Wood is now back with us. Miss Wood. What 571 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: is your initial reaction to hearing this Los Angeles County 572 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: Sheriff's news conference. Um, that's that's actually a very complicated answer. 573 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: My first reaction is I'm incredibly grateful to them for 574 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: this amount of time. The person variance um that they've shown, 575 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: the work that they've put into this case, I think 576 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: is absolutely um. Every time I hear something new, it's upsetting, 577 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: it's jarring, it's you know, I'm so torn at everything 578 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: because I know that it causes me pain, it causes 579 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 1: my family, it causes Natalie's family. But it's really really 580 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: at the point where enough is enough. You know, the 581 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: truth has to come out. If I've got a fight 582 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,919 Speaker 1: for it, I will. I have to you know set 583 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 1: aside um a lot of things that that I've never 584 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 1: never really wanted to entertain and and and go forward 585 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: and try try everything I possibly can to get at 586 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: the truth. It's just there are too many things about 587 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: all of this that have always bothered of me. But 588 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: I've never had a voice like that of the detectives 589 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,839 Speaker 1: who have said, you know this fact, this fact, this fact, 590 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: this act. Well, you can't ignore that. I don't understand 591 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: how anyone can. Um. I know it's an ugly thing 592 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: to face, but it's something that happened, and I think 593 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: it's the time we all face it. Miss. What do 594 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: you expect that Robert Wagner will finally set for an 595 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,879 Speaker 1: interview with the Sheriff's investigators. I don't know. He never has. 596 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: He has lied to my face. Um, his attorneys have 597 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: you know, dodged around saying he's cooperating. No, he didn't. 598 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:54,439 Speaker 1: He cooperated at the initial investigation thirty odd years ago. 599 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: He has never cooperated. But yet he looked me in 600 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: the face and said he did. This simply astounds me 601 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: because I do have a great belief in the truth, 602 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,879 Speaker 1: and I don't understand. There are many things I don't 603 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 1: understand about things that have happened. Um, Seriously, if my 604 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 1: dog fell overboard on a boat during the middle of 605 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: the night, in a cold, dark I would be in 606 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: the water trying to get that dog. I don't know 607 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: of anybody who wouldn't. Natalie was his wife. It was 608 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: then when they found her. Why why didn't he Why 609 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: did he go to her and and stay with her 610 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: with her body? You know, I don't understand any of 611 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: this behavior. Why you know, I just don't understand any 612 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: of it. You would think that, you know, you would 613 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 1: do anything on earth if someone was investigating to help. 614 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: Why is me helping? Why does he refuse to do that? 615 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: Miss would after all of these years to hear this 616 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: news conference by investigators. Is it satisfying in some way 617 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: or just bitter sweet? Bitter sweet? Yes, but yes it is. Um. 618 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if satisfying is the proper word that 619 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: I would use, but it's it's it's jarring, but it 620 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: also as it also gives me hope, and I've never 621 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 1: had hope. I buried my head in the sand. I've 622 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: not wanted to deal with it. I don't want to hurt. 623 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to do this. I don't want to 624 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 1: do that. Well, that attitude is over, you know, it's 625 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:03,879 Speaker 1: this has given me um a new leaky fun wife. Um. 626 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: This is this has got to be seen through. And 627 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: I've got to stand up for Nadily. And I wish, 628 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: I wish r J would have the courage to say 629 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: what happened. And if he's made mistakes, he should have 630 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: the courage to admit them. You know, I want to 631 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,959 Speaker 1: wring my hands. I become so frustrated, but I'm also 632 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 1: hopeful at the same time, which is why I said 633 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: initially the you know, the answer is complicated, lots of 634 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: different feelings all at once. Robert Wagner, he is not 635 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: a suspect. He is a person of interest. And now 636 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 1: we had to California where and allegedly suicidal twenty eight 637 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: year old woman killed a father of two and aspiring 638 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: doctor by in an attempt to kill herself, drives the 639 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: wrong way up an interstate where people are going and smashing, colliding, 640 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: crashing head on into this father of two's car. Grace 641 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:20,760 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Ward allegedly drives directly into oncoming traffic on Interstate 642 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: five near Read in California, just killing. It's horrible a 643 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: father of two, Ryan Fulsome, and a head on collision, 644 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: allegedly driving straight through a central barrier to carry out 645 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: her deadly maneuver. Fulsome was on his way to an 646 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: interview an aspiring doctor. His wife is pregnant with their 647 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: third child. And all that happens to Grace Elizabeth Ward 648 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: on her suicidal mission. She gets a broken leg. That's it. 649 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: Why straight to John Limley Crime Stories investigative reporter. Take 650 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: it from the top, John, What happened Nancy? All of 651 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 1: this took place on a Sunday near the city of 652 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: Reading in northern California. That former college football star and 653 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 1: young father, Ryan Folsom was on Interstate five heading to 654 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: an interview for a residency position as a doctor. At 655 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 1: the same time, Grace Elizabeth Ward is in her car, 656 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,880 Speaker 1: also on I five. She's heading north on the highway 657 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: when all of a sudden, she steers her car into 658 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: the cable that divides the north and southbound lanes. She 659 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: hits the cable, but it doesn't break. She drives a 660 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 1: little further. She finds an opening uh in the cable 661 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: meant for emergency vehicles. She drives through and stops on 662 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: the other side. Of the media. It's at this point 663 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,399 Speaker 1: that Ward picks up her phone and calls her mom. 664 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,839 Speaker 1: Now this is any thing but a casual catch up. 665 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: The Ward tells her mom that she's going to kill herself. 666 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 1: After a few minutes, Ward hangs up hits the accelerator 667 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: right into oncoming traffic. There are three vehicles that narrowly 668 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: managed to avoid colliding with Ward. Then finally Ward hits 669 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: a Honda Accord with such force that the impact flips 670 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: her vehicle and catapults this Honda down an embankment. Ward's 671 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,720 Speaker 1: vehicle immediately bursts into flames right there on the highway. 672 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: The other car is hidden from view, completely out of 673 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: sight for the moment. Ward has just smashed into Ryan 674 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,800 Speaker 1: fulsome and he has just a matter of minutes before 675 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 1: he dies. I'm overwhelmed. I've heard of, you know, homicide 676 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: by suicide or suicide home side packs, but murdering another person, 677 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 1: an unknown person, in your attempt to commit suicide. Dr 678 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: Brian Russell with me, lawyer and psychologist, host of I 679 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,400 Speaker 1: d S Fatal Vows Hit series. Not to Russell, I 680 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: guess people that are trying to commit suicide. And it 681 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: has been said that every deeply thinking person has wondered, 682 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: at least wondered about suicide before. But when you're in 683 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:36,240 Speaker 1: the throes of a suicidal ideation, I guess other human 684 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,240 Speaker 1: life means nothing to you. I I don't have the words. 685 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,320 Speaker 1: I'm just a lawyer to describe what I think was 686 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,720 Speaker 1: going on in her mind. Of course, it's no defense 687 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 1: under the law. Dr Brian, Well, you're correct that suicide 688 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,840 Speaker 1: is a very self focused act. However, the vast majority 689 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: of suicidal people do not intend or you know, even 690 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: think about taking others out at the same time. So 691 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,279 Speaker 1: there's something else going on here. As you know, I 692 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,880 Speaker 1: had literally wrote the book on entitlement, and this is 693 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 1: just about the height of entitlement if you think about it, 694 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 1: that somebody is going to soothe their own psychological pain 695 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: and take themselves out of this world to get away 696 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 1: from it, but in the process that the way they're 697 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: going to do that is by taking somebody else out 698 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: with them, or multiple other people. It's kind of like 699 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: the height of this this idea was a few years 700 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 1: ago when when the German Wings pilot took the entire 701 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: plane down as a means apparently of killing himself and 702 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 1: took out hundreds of other people with him. Thank God, 703 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: you know that this is as horrible as this is, 704 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,200 Speaker 1: It's amazing that she only took out one person. You know, 705 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,319 Speaker 1: I'm looking at a photo of her in court. She's 706 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 1: got her whole life in front of her. Now I'm 707 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 1: looking at the victim, Ryan Folsen's beautiful young wife and 708 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,359 Speaker 1: their two children, two little boys, and his wife now 709 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:07,440 Speaker 1: expect ting a third child. She Ward tells investigators reportedly 710 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: that she deliberately carried out the maneuver because she wanted 711 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 1: to kill herself. According to k r c R TV, 712 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: this guy Ryan Folsom a college football start, just starting 713 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,760 Speaker 1: his medical career, waiting for his third child to be born. 714 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 1: You know, Joe got Morgan. I often here, why do 715 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 1: good people get mowed down and bad people thrive? Why? 716 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,360 Speaker 1: I just get overwhelmed sometime, Joe Scott by the nature 717 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,959 Speaker 1: of homicide, the old adage wrong place, wrong time comes 718 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,319 Speaker 1: to mind. Uh And the you know, the big thing 719 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: about it is is, you know, I'm sure that uh, 720 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,239 Speaker 1: everybody would sit around and ask these questions about you know, 721 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,399 Speaker 1: why why why? Um? And I think that this young 722 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,880 Speaker 1: mother has left with the question what you know what 723 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 1: What am I going to do? Now? What am I 724 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,239 Speaker 1: going to do? Now? I'm absent my partner in life here, 725 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:13,880 Speaker 1: I've got a baby on the way, I've got two 726 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: other beautiful little angels that I'm taking care of, and 727 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: their daddy's gone. I mean, just just wiped off of 728 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: the face the planet, you know, in a millisecond, because 729 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,760 Speaker 1: this person drove headlong into his car, driving the engine 730 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,759 Speaker 1: block of his own car into his lap. Literally, these 731 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,759 Speaker 1: photos are horrible in this particular case. And uh, in 732 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,319 Speaker 1: a in an instant, in a flash. You know, it's 733 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: just amazing to me, Um, how self centered this act was. 734 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,919 Speaker 1: To John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter, is it true 735 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: her bill has been said at one point five million 736 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:58,320 Speaker 1: dollars and if she is convicted she faces life behind bars. 737 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,320 Speaker 1: What can you tell me about the charges on the bill? 738 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 1: That is correct, Nancy? And this woman is known to 739 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 1: have not much in the way of of income. She 740 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:16,640 Speaker 1: was disabled, she was in a wheelchair. Um had been 741 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:24,920 Speaker 1: reported with a diagnosis of depression for many years before 742 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 1: this incident. You know, it's just it's bad enough, it's 743 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: sad enough. Let me say that someone wants to commit 744 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,719 Speaker 1: suicide and take steps to do it, but to take 745 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,000 Speaker 1: down an innocent person as you're going, you know, it's 746 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:45,520 Speaker 1: really taking me down a path that I was recalling 747 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,279 Speaker 1: when I learned about this story, Dr Russell. When my 748 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 1: fiance was murdered, he was out working in a remote 749 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,560 Speaker 1: area on a construction site. It was almost through with 750 00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: his geology degree. He had been on baseball scholarship at 751 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 1: another college that did not offer exactly the geology degree 752 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 1: he wanted, so when he finished there he had a 753 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 1: few classes he had to finish up at a different 754 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:17,000 Speaker 1: university to get that specific degree, and in the summer, 755 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,800 Speaker 1: to make money, he was working on a construction site 756 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,160 Speaker 1: for a guy that was a friend of his dad's 757 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,840 Speaker 1: that had a construction company. At lunchtime, he made the 758 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,320 Speaker 1: guy that he was said, Hey, I'll go drive to 759 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,960 Speaker 1: the closest quick trip or whatever it was and and 760 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,160 Speaker 1: get everybody's soft drinks and whatever you want. And he left. 761 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,719 Speaker 1: Who was driving back into the construction site out in 762 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere and standing there was a guy 763 00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,759 Speaker 1: that had been fired off the job, I believe before 764 00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:54,279 Speaker 1: Keith was ever hired. Who sees the construction truck and 765 00:47:54,440 --> 00:48:00,680 Speaker 1: open fire and our plans for Mary Edge and raising 766 00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 1: a family. We were set to Elope shortly after that. 767 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: It just was all gone in one moment. It really 768 00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,320 Speaker 1: does raise that question in everyone's mind. I think that 769 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,399 Speaker 1: that you raised a moment ago, which is why why 770 00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 1: does this happen to a guy like Keith? Why does 771 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: it happen to a guy like this young husband and 772 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,319 Speaker 1: father involved in this case? Just last week I heard 773 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 1: that a wonderful woman that I've gotten to know through 774 00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:35,240 Speaker 1: my television work has cancer, and I found myself thinking, 775 00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:40,400 Speaker 1: why has it always somebody wonderful? And it's it's something 776 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,960 Speaker 1: that you know, psychology doesn't have the answer for that. 777 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: That's a philosophical question. Yeah. Well, you know, Joe Scott Morgan, um, 778 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:55,400 Speaker 1: you and I have the same religious bat and in 779 00:48:55,560 --> 00:49:01,080 Speaker 1: our world, nobody ever promised us the life would be easy. 780 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,239 Speaker 1: And in fact, our example says that life is going 781 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,839 Speaker 1: to be hard. So I guess that's the answer, right. 782 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 1: Life is not always going to be easy. There are 783 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,920 Speaker 1: going to be steep hills we have to carry very 784 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:20,759 Speaker 1: often with a very heavy burden on our back. But 785 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,239 Speaker 1: then there are the moments of happiness too, So I 786 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,440 Speaker 1: guess that's really the answer to it. Right. It reigns 787 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 1: on the just and the unjust, Nancy, and it's you 788 00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:33,239 Speaker 1: never know where where misfortune is going to fall. You 789 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,360 Speaker 1: really don't, and you have to stay steadfast in in 790 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,759 Speaker 1: that and in the fact that you have some kind 791 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,759 Speaker 1: of greater hope. We don't have any control those two 792 00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,799 Speaker 1: children though, just got these two babies. I mean, it's 793 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,839 Speaker 1: just overwhelming to me. And I think about this guy 794 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,600 Speaker 1: with a child being born, he'll never know. Two little 795 00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,360 Speaker 1: children growing up without their dad. There is no replacement. 796 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,080 Speaker 1: There might be a fill in, there's no replacement for 797 00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:05,840 Speaker 1: your dad, adopted or biological. You know, It's just I 798 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,920 Speaker 1: just I hate it. The only thing I can do 799 00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:16,879 Speaker 1: now is seek justice. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off 800 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:18,560 Speaker 1: goodbye friend,