WEBVTT - Ep. 40: Randy Newberg & Janis Putelis 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:07.960 Hey, everybody, welcome to episode number forty of The Hunting Collective. 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:11.000 I happen to be Ben O'Brien and also happened to 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:17.279 be in Bozeman, Montana with my friends Joannest Patelis and 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.280 uh first time guests on the show, Randy Newburgh. Randy 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:25.119 Newburg of Fresh Tracks and many other awesome pieces of 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.440 content on his platform. So we love Randy. Just to say, 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:31.280 what a good dude. What a pleasure to sit in 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:34.919 a room and talk with Randy and have Janni at 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:41.120 our side. It was a great conversation around ethics, moral principles, 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:45.279 as it were ethical questions that you all submitted and 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:49.400 we tried our best to answer. But they're always interesting 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.559 to to bat around, interesting to um I d eight 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.600 on and and find ways to express some pretty complicated 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.880 ideas and hopefully UM way that are clear and I 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.280 can clarify some of your issues out there in the woods. 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.839 So without further ado, please enjoy Randy Newburg and honest 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:23.480 tell us, Mr Randy Newburgh, how are you, sir? I'm 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.520 so close to perfect, Ben, you couldn't measure the difference, 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.920 and I wouldn't try. Thanks for having me, Thank you 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:34.039 for being on nice. But tell us how are you. 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.679 How are you doing? I'm doing well, thank you. Yes, 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:42.760 we're randy. We're just coming off the meat Eater Christmas party, 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:48.840 the first ever Bozeman Meat Eater Christmas party. Um, it 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.520 was a good a good time, but I was most 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.800 struck by the like the amount of actual good game 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.040 and other seafood that we actually, hey, we should have 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.200 invited you. Now I feel bad. I'm telling you how 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.360 great it was. It's all right. I could have brought 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:05.880 something over. You know, I had a bison tag this year, 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.920 and I could have brought some bison. Yeah, you got 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:12.600 a few steaks, and I do. But you know, I 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:16.239 get it. Yeah, I'll get over it next year. Yanni, 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.639 you injected a secret deer ham. Mm hmm, I never 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.160 did get I wanted to before we start, get your 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:27.840 method on that, because it was If anybody saw my instagram, 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:30.639 it was one of the best wild game hams I've 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:35.200 ever eat in my life. So please the secret deer 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.960 definitely helps because it is one tender little animal. But 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.679 my neighbor did the same exact process with a young 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.560 mule deer's ham for Thanksgiving, and I had some of 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:47.760 it a couple of days later leftovers and it was 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.120 equally good, tender, juicy. But yeah, I didn't do anything special, 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.560 just took Brian recipe out of the old Meat Eater 0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:00.840 cookbook that better go out and one. If you want 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.840 one before the next hunting season, get ordered it now 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.880 because they're back ordered. You'll get it about yeah June. 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.560 Um no, I'm joking there. I won't take that long 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.720 that there's more coming. I don't know exactly when. But anyways, 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:19.800 I made a Brian and I did two hams, and uh, 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.000 I think I just injected them twice. But I have 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:25.000 one of those, um, I don't know what they call. 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.840 It's just like a meat injector. It's like it's a 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.600 it looks like a stainless steel giant needle. It's but 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.840 it's not sharp like a needle. And the end of 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.280 the what would be the needle has three or four 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.480 little ports. You fill it up with Brian and you 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.960 just jamming into that ham and push it in there. 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.440 And I don't know I did that twenty or thirty 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.840 times per ham until the Brian stort of starts squirting 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.320 out of the holes you've been making. And uh, I 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:54.360 might I think I only did that twice. I did 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:55.880 when I first put it in the brine, and then 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.640 maybe two days later, and I brined it for I 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:00.960 put it on Saturday morning and we started cooking at 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.880 Wednesday at about two or three in the afternoon, So 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.920 five days and uh yeah. There might have been a 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.600 couple of gray spots right around the bone where Brian 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:15.400 didn't quite reach. Didn't matter to me. But it was good, fantastic, fantastic. 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:17.960 We smoked it for I don't know, four to six 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:23.000 hours around yeah, something something like that. It was. It 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.240 was pretty unbelievable. You you ever seeking to your hunted, right, 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.359 I have not, because listen to you guys talk about this. 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.320 I have a full let's a blacktail ham in my 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.440 freether right now, off fault hind quarter, trying to figure 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:36.840 out what to do with that. This may be the 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:38.840 way to go. Yeah, what I like about it when 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:40.960 you brian it and then smoke it, it seems like 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.240 it gives you much better leftovers than with just a roast. 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.240 Roasts are good. You can then slice them into a sandwich. 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.800 But it's like that hamminess of it, you know what 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.240 the Brian does. Um, the last one we did. We 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.960 did it for a little cooking special we did, and 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.520 my daughter and I the other daughter in my wife 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:02.359 just weren't that into it. So she and I ate 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:05.640 on it for a good week. Well and yeah, it's 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.720 just like because you've brind it and smoked. It's just 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.920 it's cured, right, not going bad. No, it's a sandwich 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.120 for however long you wanted to be. Well, yeah, we'd 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.160 have it in the morn with eggs. We make a sandwich, 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:18.960 then we reheat it and have with some mustard in 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.400 the evening. It's the way, it's the life. That's the life. 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.840 Well normally, normally, well, we bullshit way more. We would 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.960 probably bullshit for another hour. That's what I excel at. Yeah, 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.880 me too. That's why I'm sure. That's why I'm here 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:38.080 is the Janice has been on my platforms before, so 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:41.120 he knows that I'm below average at everything other than 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.320 b Yeah, I try to be. I try to be 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:47.480 just just under average at everything in life. So not 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.760 to increase expectations, right, I'd like to keep them right 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.120 there at average. But for some reason, we were talking 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.640 about this before we hit record um. For some reason, 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.120 ethics has been something that like people have been sending 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:03.240 me and I'm sure sending for the media podcast, and 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.680 I'm sure you're any like these ethical quandaries, these ponderings 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:11.760 that people have that they can't answer. They you know, 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:18.320 they trust the three of us somehow to answer them. Oh, 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.360 I don't, I don't know, I don't get it. Don't 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.919 ask me why. Speaking merely for myself, I could be 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:30.320 misplaced trust, But yes, me too. But that's what makes 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:34.479 the ethics thing interesting and a struggle. And that's something 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:36.760 we'd like to talk about, right, because it is based 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.000 off your like personal moral compass. And I'm not saying 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.159 that everybody wrote in doesn't have a strong one, but 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:46.400 just maybe on this one particular question or topic they have, 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.880 it's just wavering a little bit and they're just looking 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.279 for maybe a little bit of guidance or just some 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.640 other people's opinions. Yeah, I mean, hunting is such a 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.800 varied practice, right. You do things that you have different perspectives, 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:59.960 different experiences, different traditions, and the way that things happen, 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.440 and like when your traditions, um, the way you do 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.320 things collide with someone else is sometimes it could seem 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.559 like something on the ethical is happening, which is that's 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:12.120 just the way we do it right. And I, I said, 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:17.600 on a nonprofit board for thirteen years, and our goal 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:21.640 was about hunting behavior and hunting ethics. And one of 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:25.560 the things that was very common to the quandaries presented 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:32.440 to us is how people can can conflated, conflicted, can confused, 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:36.480 whatever term you want to say. Uh. They seem to 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:40.880 use the term hunter ethics as a way to speak 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:47.400 of their personal preferences. And there's a hunter who's serious 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:52.040 indoe philosophy. He's a professor at Cornell University. His name 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:57.120 is Jim Tantillo. And Jim was very good at talking 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.080 about the true essence of what is an f what 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:05.720 what is ethics, and what is personal preference. So I 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:10.880 whenever someone uses the word ethics, I start having this 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:15.760 real almost like then my intentas are vibrating. Is this 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.559 a question about true ethics or is this just someone 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:22.200 saying this is my personal way of doing things and 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.920 someone else does it differently and I want confirmation that 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.120 I'm doing it right and they're doing it wrong or 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.320 and I I don't want to say I stray away 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.679 from it, but a lot of times I will do 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.200 it or my response will be kind of what you 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:41.600 just said, Ben, is that this might be a cultural, geographic, 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:44.120 whatever difference in how we do it, but is it 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.040 truly an ethical issue? Yeah? And I think you know 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.160 every conversation we have around ethics, when you hear the 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.280 question or you hear the story, what you're thinking is 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:57.520 it is this an ethics situation or are you just 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:02.720 wondering why you're ways different than someone else? Right? Like 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.760 it just it always ends up that way. Can you just, 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:09.040 in Layman's terms, kind of explain a little bit about 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.960 how how he differentiated the two, like what was the 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:15.280 main difference between ethics and just like your personal way? Well, 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:17.439 Jim is one of these people who have a brain 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:20.520 bigger than my body. So I'm going to destroy it 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:24.640 by trying to summarize the You take someone with a 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:29.080 PhD and philosophy and ask an accountant to explain what 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.360 they're talking about, you're heading down the wrong path to 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.839 start with. Uh. But he, Jim does a very good 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.520 job of, in a brief system or a brief term, 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:46.200 explaining the kind of how we as us human culture 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:50.360 arrived at this notion of ethics. There are certain accepted 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:56.720 norms and certain unaccepted norms. Now, the norm is usually 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:02.000 the motivation and the person feelings of why or or 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:06.360 what you're doing in contrast to how you your motives 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:13.079 versus others. Okay, a preference is, well, I shoot a 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:17.440 traditional bow rather than a countpound bow. Some people will 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.280 try to mix it up as an ethics argument. No, 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.800 it's not. Some people will say, well, I hunt bears 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.400 over bait, but or someone will say I spot in 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.520 stock them, but those other guys out of the hun 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:34.679 him over bait. That's not an ethics issue. That is 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:40.480 really an issue related to preferences, right. Uh. Your motive 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:42.640 for either of them is to go out and get 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:47.480 some some food and fill a tack. How you do it, 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.960 there's not usually an ethics issue. Yeah, And most of 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.800 the things that we'll we'll tackle here this afternoon are 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:57.920 your first reaction a lot of times as well. It depends, 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.880 it depends on what your motivation is, on what your 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.120 value system is, on the angle at which you come 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.920 at this, you know, And I think that's like moral 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.920 principles in general are just tough to define. You know. 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:16.240 It's such a man, it's it's such a malleable idea 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.400 that it's almost scary to like dive into and try 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.000 to answer these things because there's there's no answer. There's 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:23.880 sometimes where you d have to draw an ethical line, 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.720 like that is an ethical one. You damn well know it, sir, 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:31.360 I mean you know it. I think we often feel 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.480 that we as hunters are different than the rest of society, 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.680 when we're really nothing more than a cross section of 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.079 the bigger society. And if you step out of the 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.920 hunting world into any other part of our society, there 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.920 are the same ethics questions. Obviously they have a different 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:52.359 contact and a different discussion about them. But every activity 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:56.240 in society has its ethics. Whether we're talking business, whether 0:11:56.280 --> 0:12:00.480 we're talking about volunteerism, whether we're talking about the elopment 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.800 of landscapes, whatever it is, you end up in the 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:09.120 same areas of discussion about what's ethical not ethical. Very 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.439 often in those same discussions people use a sideboard of well, 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.520 legal is my sideboard, and I'm willing to come inside 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.480 that even further to define what my creed or my 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:23.880 ethic is. Yeah, but we're no difference than the rest 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.840 of the society. We think we are, but we're not yeah, 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.120 And I think it's good the hunting community in recent 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.960 time that you can probably you know, having your experience 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:37.079 UM much deeper than mine. But I think in recent 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:41.199 years that there's been a more self awareness, like more like, hey, 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:45.280 we this is complex, this is we are killing something here, 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:48.720 rather than just we do it this way and don't 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.600 question us. I think there's more given the fact that 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.680 we had four hundred and seventy one people message Instagram 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.600 with different things they were wondering about, Like people are 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.719 willing to go there, They're willing to do it. It's 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.560 definitely a modern human luxury to sit around and think 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.560 about these things. That is truely honest, that that is 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:12.319 very true. I think if there's a and you get 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:17.160 into that modern luxury discussion in the hunting world, when 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:23.640 you see cultural traditions that are not considered offensive, say 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:28.600 in the out just outlying areas of Africa, compared to 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:33.040 what it is in the United States or even where 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.760 the person comes from. So h a U. S. Citizen 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.080 who goes to Africa and does certain things is going 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.920 to be judged way differently than someone who lives in 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:46.080 Africa and does certain things. And we we just put 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:55.160 really critical, uh, microscopes on people based on what their 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.640 background is based done where they're from geographically, and back 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.840 to your point of luxury. Since we in the United 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:05.360 States have luxuries beyond most of the rest of the world, 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.520 we're going to get judged differently than somebody from South 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:14.400 America and the rainforest or someone from Sub Saharan Africa 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.280 or something. Yeah. I mean it's and it's much like, 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.200 as you know, especially in hunting, the national world doesn't 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:27.680 really have any ethical quand elk aren't like wondering should 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:31.840 we mow down this pasture because we're hungry and wolves 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.640 are like, I don't know if we should take that 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.720 calf down. Yeah, you know what, we got them kind 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:41.840 of pinned into this box canyon feeling a little on us. 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.560 Not fair, it's not fair. Let's let him get back 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.360 out in into the prairie where we can have a 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.600 longer chase and then if we get one we'll feel 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.720 good about now. They're just like A to B A 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.800 to B. And when you get into ethics versus preferences, 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.320 there are some that are just so if you step 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.560 back and you weren't a hunter, the hypocrisy of it 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:09.440 to someone who's not a hunter is glaring and I 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:13.440 shoot grouse on the ground. I am unapologetic that I 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.800 shoot grouse out of trees, Grouse on the ground, Grouse 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.240 that fly, not just with your bulb while your old, 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.400 but with a shotgun. If I come up to a 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.560 tree and there are three grouse up in that tree, 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.440 there's gonna be three grouse on the ground. You're coming 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:32.840 home now. There there are people who would say in 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:36.800 the same with peasants. So here here's my contradiction. I 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.880 don't shoot pheasants on the ground, okay. But to a 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:44.600 non hunter who's not familiar with our customs, they would say, 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.920 why would you flush an animal where you have a 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:52.119 greater likelihood of missing or you know, not a complete 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:57.920 lethal kill. Why is that considered your norm? You don't 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.480 flush an elk, You don't flush you dear are your weight? 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.160 So to those not in the hunting world, they look 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.960 at us like you people have some really crazy ideas 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.520 about what's right and what's wrong. Yeah, we were talking 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:15.200 about it yesterday around the European UM feeling on bow hunting. 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:17.760 Most of Europe they're like, we're just done. That's it's 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.320 either illegal in some places, or they just it's just 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.040 frowned upon. Starting to change a little bit. Some places 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.600 I know of, but traditionally you go over there, it's like, 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.480 we shoot things with rifles because that's the most effective tool, 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.400 right that there is. But at the same time, and 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.840 I've only been Bulgarian, Germany and some other places, but 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:41.160 at the same time they shoot running game, they do 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:45.240 driven hunts. I'm like, wait a minute, I could maybe 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:46.960 get with you on the first part, but the second, 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:51.360 Like what that doesn't mean you could shoot shoot running 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.240 things because you have rifles. You should still approach it 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.360 as you should try to make make ethically it should 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.600 probably be standing. I would say, I mean fishing with 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:06.240 my wife as a contradiction, my wife has a statement 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.120 that she says all the time, if you hook them, 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:13.080 you cook them. So those who listen to my platforms 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.080 know that my wife is a fanatic while angler, and 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.560 while I are as good at table fires, you're going 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.480 to find in the fresh waters in North America, the 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.919 limit in Montana's five. When we go there, once she 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:29.000 has her five fish were done. Then when I catch 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.000 my five fish, she's on me. Let's go, honey, we're 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:37.639 into him. Yeah, you know, we've been searching for three days. 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:39.800 We found them. That's not going out And she just 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.320 crosses her arms and give me this. No, this is 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.159 about acquiring food, and don't be thumping and messing with 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.160 these poor fish and taking them out of the water. 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:50.800 And I know some people listening are gonna be like, man, 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:55.159 your wife's got some issues. But it's just her value 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.800 system of where she's at with that. And I would 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:01.040 say that's the biggest reason. And even though we live 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.800 in the fly fishing capital of the world, or some 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:08.720 would say here in Bozeman, Montana, the sour looks she 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:13.280 got when we first moved here, where I knock a 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.080 trout on the head and throat and the cooler and 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:19.239 we're gonna eat it. That almost the That's where she 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:21.359 part of what drove her to become more of a 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:27.520 walleye fisherman. While anglers don't have quite the what would 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:33.119 I say, the the worry about having to release every 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.600 fish as the trowal world does. So I'm not saying 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.359 that's right or wrong. I'm just saying here's two people 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.680 living in the same household who have completely different perspectives 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:48.880 or somewhat different perspectives just on something. Fish and fish 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:54.160 get treated in the eyes of our society differently than mammals, 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.080 differently than bird, differently than I was just gonna say, 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.760 I find that, like I always tell cash re LEAs 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.600 fly fisherman, somebody's like, I'm gonna catching least fisherman. I'm like, 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.320 that's an interesting way to put it. But hunting has 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.800 already had society is kind of already showing its light 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.280 on hunting and said, what's going on over there? I 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.240 don't really like that. I don't know if I don't 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:18.679 like that, that doesn't seem ethical. Fishing, especially fly fishing, 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.400 hasn't hasn't gotten that yet, like that it hasn't been 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.200 where um, a guy with a fish, a giant fish 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:28.280 that he caught that he knows he's gonna throw back 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.000 is getting called out on social media and because it's 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:33.919 just I would say, it's probably just the thing that 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:37.119 they're catching, rather than if they were catching an elkins 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.080 throw out it back be different. So I just throw 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.159 those out there to give the audience some contact of 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.280 how I look at this and answer these questions is 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:49.960 I try to sort out what's a true ethic dilemma 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:54.600 ethical dilemma versus what's just someone's preference or someone that's good. 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.320 I like that we should start off each question. I 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:01.239 think it's a real ethical questions. I think that is. 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.320 And if if we get through these and we only 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.840 find one ethical dilemma, I've got hundreds more. But I 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:11.280 want to add to your thought Ranny about how you 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.040 know people from the outside look at us, going, really, 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:16.359 why do you guys think of it that way? Or 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.280 do this or do that. One of my neighbors UM, 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:23.920 as an archaeologist. She works here out of the university, 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.000 and she listens to UM. I don't know if she's 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:28.640 I should tell her to listen to the High Collective, 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.840 but she listens to the Meteor podcast. She's not a hunter, 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.159 but she listens to it from an archaeologists point of 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.399 view of just like, how come this group of people 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.119 thinks like this? And it's so interesting to her to 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:44.840 like hear us like go back and forth and why 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.760 you know we put limits and rules and the different things, 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:54.240 and she just finds it fascinating, probably fascinating and positively 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:58.560 humorous a time. Yeah, yeah, And I think that's only 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.159 happening now because we're willing to have these conversations like 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.800 in the past. I'm sure you can attest this, Randy, 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.200 but it just wasn't. My dad would always say, just 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:08.920 don't talk about it, you know, don't if you talk 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.240 about it, the anti hunters might find out, you know, 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:12.960 but not that it was what we were doing was 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.800 wrong or illegal. It was just like, let's not worry 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.399 about it, Like, let's do what we did we know 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.719 to be right in ethical and if we posted out 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:23.439 there to the world, we might have to change it. 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:26.160 He must be just young enough. We're like posting out 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:28.320 to the world was a thing when you were a kid. 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:32.359 Because we never had that conversation and we hunted. We 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:34.919 left Michigan and went to Wisconsin to deer hunt, and 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.160 we had to drive through Chicago. So on the way back, 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:41.240 I mean, my dad had every version of deer strap 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:43.240 to We never actually did on the hood, but we 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:47.199 certainly we definitely had deer on the top. We'd have 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.000 him on those uh like the little care you can 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:53.240 stick into your hitch just back there, and um, I 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.000 definitely remember getting a few scals rolling through Chicago, But 0:21:56.080 --> 0:22:01.000 my dad wasn't speaking of my dad have so my head, hello, 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:04.639 I will um. But he was not. He know, we 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:07.919 never had that conversation. He wasn't worried about it. I 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:09.199 think my you know, I don't know if we ever 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:11.239 drive had it directly about social media or anything, but 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.040 more just you know, this is our thing and this 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.359 is what we do. And I think that was a 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:21.000 prevailing thought of that of that generation, maybe thirty three 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:22.760 years at the stage. I know you told me your 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:28.040 song is I'm like, I don't know, I'm gonna I'm yeah. 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.359 I mean, do you feel like it? You know, you 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:32.320 saw a change in that, in the way that it 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:37.040 has been treated. I do. Uh. I saw a lot 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.639 of discussion of it happening in the nineties, but we 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:42.680 were still in the print world at that time, mostly 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.960 a little bit of TV. I uh. I often say 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:50.760 that most of society, not just hunting, was not ready 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:54.520 for social media. Yeah. You look at how we interact 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:57.440 with each other on platforms, and I going to read 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:01.199 the comments on my YouTube channel or my my Facebook page, 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:05.720 and not just the Hunting room, but across my personal 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:09.960 page also. Well, we as a society still aren't prepared 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:14.119 for interacting with the anonymity that comes with that. Uh, 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:17.760 and I think in the hunting world we weren't prepared 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:20.800 for that. And we see it also just in the 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:25.800 manner in which some of our messaging happens. We see 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:29.119 messaging that just you shake your head and say, really, 0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:33.640 did you? Yeah? Do you thought that was appropriate? Okay? 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:38.600 But yeah, I've seen a big change in that. I 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:42.480 think social media or digital media maybe would be the 0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:46.639 better way to say it has brought hunting to a 0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:49.159 point where we have to have this discussion. If we 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:53.080 aren't having these discussions daily, someone else other people are 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:57.760 having these discussions about it, and uh, we probably don't. 0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:02.919 You want the conclude. Jan's a very discussion to drive 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:06.400 where we're going with this. Yeah, yeah, it's I think 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:09.760 it's very very healthy. Yeah. Well, let's let's get into 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:12.680 some of these They are varied, and they are some 0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:19.760 of them are deep deep. Um. This is from Kevin Thompson. 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:23.720 Kevin and a fellow Maryland or so shout out to that. Um. 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:26.840 He said, I hunt mostly the Patuxent River State Park 0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:30.679 in Howard County and my friends family farm down in 0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:34.520 Calvert County. In short, my question around ethics is regarding 0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:37.200 crow hunting. My dad brought me up in the woods 0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:38.879 on crow hunting because it was a way to go 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:42.159 introduce safe gun use and the idea of hunting. We 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:45.320 never kept our kill. He still enjoys crow hunting, but 0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:48.600 I find it harder to rationalize as I've grown older 0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:51.399 and begun to hunt more and dive deeper into my 0:24:51.440 --> 0:24:54.240 own ethics of the sport. I love the time of in 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:56.000 in the woods with him, but I find it hard 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:58.160 to shoot a handful of crows and leave them for foxes. 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:01.560 Might be over analyzing, but I want to see if you, 0:25:02.000 --> 0:25:06.080 Randy or the Eagle had thoughts on this. What do 0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:10.760 you think Randy Uh, As someone who's never crow hunted, 0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:13.920 I it's hard for me to put myself in those 0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:17.320 shoes because I I don't know what the cultural norms 0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:21.480 are in in Maryland about crow hunting. I don't know 0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:26.159 how it evolved or a lot of things have you 0:25:26.280 --> 0:25:31.960 have evolved from back in our our history where we 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:36.160 viewed wildlife as a competitor for other resources, whether it's 0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:39.400 the game, dam manager and I believe crow that one time, 0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:47.080 we're deemed to be like like any predator. Yeah yeah, 0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:51.000 And so they get viewed a little differently over time. 0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:53.440 Some of those views of that have changed. I think 0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:57.040 just the fact that this is a son talking about 0:25:57.160 --> 0:26:02.639 his his father. Generationally we have different views because of 0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:06.000 how we've evolved and how we engage and interact with 0:26:06.119 --> 0:26:14.680 other hunters. Uh, what I would get back to, what's 0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:19.879 his dad's motive for shooting crows? Is it? Is it 0:26:20.000 --> 0:26:22.959 back to the old Hey, you know the farmer is 0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:25.399 tired of the crow is great and problems or is 0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:28.600 he had the mindset that crows are what are ruining 0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:32.480 the nesting of woodcock and rough grouse and whatever else 0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:37.160 there might be His dad might have a completely different 0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:41.200 view of why he's doing this. And so yeah, he 0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:44.960 says here to introduce safegun use and like what hunting is, 0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:48.040 which might be an oxymoron's like, that's not really what 0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:50.639 hunting is, not walking around the shooting the thing and 0:26:50.720 --> 0:26:53.960 leaving it lay right. Um, so we have that to 0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:57.399 go on. But even still, I think, I think I 0:26:57.440 --> 0:26:59.440 when I think about this type of thing, I think, 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:04.320 as hunters, and whether we would admit it or not, 0:27:04.400 --> 0:27:06.399 we like when the gloves come off right. We like 0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:09.280 when it's a wild hog and we can shoot it 0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:12.080 out of a helicopter. Like there's something attractive to that 0:27:12.119 --> 0:27:15.439 because the ethics are so that can be stressful, and 0:27:15.480 --> 0:27:17.840 it can be confusing and complex to like a dress. 0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:24.360 Even this, um So, crows being you know, being from Maryland, 0:27:25.160 --> 0:27:27.480 I never knew a whole bunch of people at hunting crows, 0:27:27.520 --> 0:27:29.399 but I didn't have a few, and it was always 0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:32.480 around this is a nuisance animal. It's you know, it's 0:27:32.480 --> 0:27:34.960 a it's a nice way to spend your Saturday. It's 0:27:35.560 --> 0:27:39.280 leisurely because it's not wrapped in this ethical you know, 0:27:39.640 --> 0:27:42.520 quandary that we all have around what we kill. So 0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:45.399 I think for me, this is a good This is 0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:50.720 a pretty solid ethical question, especially around the relationship with 0:27:50.760 --> 0:27:52.800 the person who taught you how to hunt and going 0:27:52.840 --> 0:27:55.040 back to them and saying, hey, you remember the way 0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:57.720 you taught me. I now I am questioning the way 0:27:57.760 --> 0:27:59.800 that you taught me how to hunt or or the 0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:02.160 way that we did it. And I think this this 0:28:02.240 --> 0:28:05.000 is something that I've gone through with my dad. I'm like, hey, dad, 0:28:05.480 --> 0:28:06.760 remember the way that we did it when I was 0:28:06.800 --> 0:28:11.240 a kid. We don't. I'm not doing that anymore. Um So, 0:28:11.320 --> 0:28:14.120 I think even that it's probably a you know, generationally, 0:28:14.960 --> 0:28:20.760 you know, appropriate thing to to discuss and explorer. You know, 0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:23.919 if you ever hunt crows? Never have you know a 0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:26.280 few people that have? And do you have any feeling 0:28:26.320 --> 0:28:30.280 like you need to like you want to? No? No, 0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:34.560 definitely not. I mean again, for me personally, I think that, 0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:40.360 like all predators, they're part of the ecosystem. And I 0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:44.040 feel like, now sort of that's how science, game management 0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:46.760 and all that stuff looks at We're not just looking 0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:48.400 at it like oh, we need more else, so let's 0:28:48.520 --> 0:28:52.160 kill every wolf and every mountain lion and every grizzly bear. 0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:54.960 We've realized that that's not like the best way to 0:28:55.000 --> 0:29:03.920 have this like big happy hunting world, right, Um so yeah, 0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:06.800 it's it's not for me, but again it's legal. Do 0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:09.920 I think it's ethnically wrong to go and kill some 0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:13.040 stuff and let it lie? I mean, we do it 0:29:13.080 --> 0:29:16.720 with all kinds of predators, And I think that if 0:29:16.720 --> 0:29:19.200 we just said, if it wasn't crows, but let's say 0:29:19.200 --> 0:29:23.040 if it was chipmunks, Right, they're not even a predator, 0:29:23.520 --> 0:29:25.760 but they're kind of like a past. You can consider 0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:27.840 a raven or a crow a past. I guess you 0:29:27.840 --> 0:29:32.200 can't shoot ravens, right, only crows, But you know, no 0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:34.960 one's gonna have any ethical problem about you shooting too 0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:38.120 many chipmunks. Okay, maybe some ardent you know, real animal 0:29:38.200 --> 0:29:41.960 over but most hunters aren't gonna have this conversation over 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:45.360 a chipmunk, right. Yeah, that's like that hierarchy of what 0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:49.959 we care about, right, they're greater. This is a perfect 0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:54.320 illustration of how we place certain values on some species 0:29:55.280 --> 0:29:58.400 and no value or a little value on other. Yeah. 0:29:58.400 --> 0:30:01.440 And if you you know, if you talk to an ecologist, 0:30:01.680 --> 0:30:05.120 they would say, like a healthy ecosystem very important, all 0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:08.320 things biodiversity, all things very important, you know. So let's 0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:11.800 not think of a predator or something we can kill 0:30:11.800 --> 0:30:15.600 a nauseum and you know, an unglit or a game 0:30:15.640 --> 0:30:18.560 animal something we should like really protect, like they all 0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:21.360 if we're doing it right, we're managing them all correctly, 0:30:21.760 --> 0:30:24.800 I don't. I mean, if someone called me up and said, hey, 0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:27.880 you want to go on a crow shoot, because I've 0:30:27.880 --> 0:30:29.160 never done it, I'd say, well, what do we do 0:30:29.200 --> 0:30:31.200 with the crows? And if they said, wow, we just 0:30:31.280 --> 0:30:33.479 leave them lay out there? Thing? And this is just 0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:37.480 my own personal yeah value is I think No, I'm 0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:41.320 I'm not interested. Yeah, No, I would say that too, 0:30:41.360 --> 0:30:43.720 But then someone might throw it back at me and say, well, 0:30:43.920 --> 0:30:48.360 you trapple out of nuisance beaver for people in Bozeman, Montana. Yeah, 0:30:49.360 --> 0:30:52.080 what's the difference. Well, I have friends like Joannas who 0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:55.760 like to eat them. We're also talking about beaver gloves, 0:30:55.800 --> 0:30:58.600 which I'm very interested and I salvage the hides, I 0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:02.680 said allegedly castors, I said all edged details. Ah, but 0:31:04.000 --> 0:31:06.160 so I'd have to look in the mirror and say, 0:31:06.320 --> 0:31:08.800 am I judging that person differently than some of my 0:31:08.840 --> 0:31:12.840 own behaviors? And yeah, because sometimes, yeah, I think it 0:31:12.880 --> 0:31:15.480 gets tricky where we look at someone else doing it 0:31:15.520 --> 0:31:17.640 and you and doing in your head, you can go, 0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:19.840 you know what, the only reason you could be going 0:31:19.840 --> 0:31:23.560 out there to do that is for fun? Yeah, right, Yeah, 0:31:23.920 --> 0:31:26.040 and then you're like, I don't like it because you're 0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:31.080 shooting stuff just for fun. But now back to this 0:31:31.160 --> 0:31:34.360 guy's story, I feel like his dad is just like 0:31:34.400 --> 0:31:36.600 it's another way to be out in the woods, right, 0:31:37.040 --> 0:31:38.600 And maybe I think what he needs to do and 0:31:38.600 --> 0:31:40.440 he needs to have a conversation with his dad about 0:31:40.440 --> 0:31:42.600 it and say, you know what, man, I want to 0:31:42.600 --> 0:31:44.840 still go out and shoot a bunch of stuff. Let's 0:31:44.880 --> 0:31:49.520 go and uh find some rabbits. Yeah, a lot of people. 0:31:49.720 --> 0:31:51.960 And now that I'm thinking about, I got a buddy 0:31:52.000 --> 0:31:54.640 that bates crows, like put the little decoys out. They 0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:56.240 put like a little poly of corn and sit there 0:31:56.240 --> 0:31:59.600 and just whack crows all day. And nobody's eating crows. 0:32:02.000 --> 0:32:05.760 Very few, very few. If someone is, please let us know. 0:32:06.120 --> 0:32:07.960 But I think that sound advice. I think I think 0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:12.920 it's it's say, hey, look, honey, is always fun. I mean, 0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:16.320 there's always some fun in it, um, But in this case, 0:32:17.400 --> 0:32:18.960 is there something else we can do to be having 0:32:19.000 --> 0:32:23.600 fun that doesn't involve, um, killing a bunch of crows? 0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:26.960 Or is like, hey, is this better for where we live, 0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:30.720 our you know, our place, our ecosystem. If it is, 0:32:30.800 --> 0:32:32.640 then let's keep doing it and let's have fun, and 0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:37.000 let's let's feel like we're ethically sound and we're doing 0:32:37.000 --> 0:32:42.520 all right in disregard um. Next one, and this is 0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:45.480 one I think that could go a while. But this 0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:48.840 comes from Scott Henry and he says, how do you 0:32:48.840 --> 0:32:52.400 feel about hunters using wild game to feed their dogs? 0:32:52.760 --> 0:32:55.360 This is a common practice among water fowler's and it's 0:32:55.480 --> 0:32:59.040 never sat right with me. I'm not talking scraps. Either 0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:01.640 they will go out shoot a limited birds with zero 0:33:01.640 --> 0:33:05.720 intention of eating said birds themselves. However, the birds aren't 0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:08.760 going to waste in quotation marks, they are being used 0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:11.000 as pet food. I'd love to hear your thoughts on 0:33:11.080 --> 0:33:16.640 this and in general, feeding wild games, feeding wild game 0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:21.360 to your dogs. Randy, WHOA that that one strikes me 0:33:21.400 --> 0:33:27.240 as worrisome from the standpoint of it's in most states, 0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:33.000 feeding ducks or geese to your dog would be considered illegal. Yeah, 0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:35.880 it would be. That would be all right. So if 0:33:35.920 --> 0:33:39.440 we you can go under want and waste. Right, So 0:33:39.560 --> 0:33:45.000 if we say that the the absolute furthest side board 0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:49.560 in the discussion of ethics is legal, and we'll move 0:33:49.600 --> 0:33:54.840 in from there. This is even outside the sideboard of legal. 0:33:55.480 --> 0:34:00.320 I that one I have some ethical issues with if 0:34:00.560 --> 0:34:02.840 if you say I'm going to go out there for 0:34:02.920 --> 0:34:07.960 the sole purpose of shooting these and and you justify 0:34:08.040 --> 0:34:09.600 it by saying, well, I'm going to feed it to 0:34:09.680 --> 0:34:15.239 my dog. I've heard the same thing about spring bear 0:34:15.360 --> 0:34:19.400 in Montana. People say, oh, yeah, I shoot him my 0:34:19.440 --> 0:34:23.040 salvage to meat, but I feed it to my dog. Yes, 0:34:23.480 --> 0:34:28.839 all right, Uh, technically that's you know, that's illegal. So yeah, 0:34:29.000 --> 0:34:33.480 I think most people, when they analyze ethics, I would say, 0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:38.040 if it's outside the legal confines that our society has 0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:42.040 developed through our our process of governance and laws, if 0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:45.759 we really are a society of laws, it seems as 0:34:45.800 --> 0:34:52.759 though being outside the legal sideboards certainly puts it in 0:34:52.800 --> 0:34:56.319 the non ethical part. Yeah, yeah, that's a neat like, 0:34:56.400 --> 0:34:59.160 that's an easy one, and like and in this case, 0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:03.319 if yeah, if if you're going hunting to kill, you know, 0:35:03.760 --> 0:35:07.120 a game animal, and you intend to just feed it 0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:10.719 to your dogs, don't do that. We could probably say. 0:35:11.280 --> 0:35:14.520 Without none of us are wearing badges, we can all say, 0:35:14.760 --> 0:35:16.840 don't do that. And if someone in your group is 0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:18.680 doing it, tell him to stop doing it, because that 0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:21.760 is not the reason here. I think the next level 0:35:21.760 --> 0:35:24.720 would be in the case of hey, I'm just feeding 0:35:24.719 --> 0:35:27.160 them scraps, or I'm feeding them cut the meat that 0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:29.160 I don't like, or cut some meat that we don't 0:35:29.160 --> 0:35:31.640 have time to cook, or I'm just feeding them the shanks. 0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:33.440 Just just let ut you in the shanks. I think 0:35:33.480 --> 0:35:36.400 that probably happens a lot because it's attached to a 0:35:36.400 --> 0:35:39.799 bone and it would be easy to do. That's what 0:35:39.920 --> 0:35:42.640 are the thoughts around that, like how ethic you know, 0:35:42.760 --> 0:35:46.240 like this is something you could eat, but you're handing 0:35:46.239 --> 0:35:49.319 it over to Yeah, that's your dog. But I think 0:35:49.360 --> 0:35:53.800 that's where the discussion gets a little foggy here. Most 0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:56.760 states will say, let's use a big game animal. For instance, 0:35:57.200 --> 0:36:00.960 Most states in their regulations say what is the required 0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:04.080 salvage of meat or use of meat that you have 0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:07.480 to take from the field to not violate their rules 0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:12.239 they call want and waste. If you don't comply with that, 0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:17.160 you are subject to a citation for wasting in this 0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:21.239 game animal. So in most instances it's going to be 0:36:21.320 --> 0:36:25.600 front quarter, hind, quarterbackstraps, tenderloin. Some do or don't say 0:36:25.640 --> 0:36:28.959 the next meat. None of them say anything about the heart, 0:36:29.640 --> 0:36:36.320 the organs of living kidneys, and the ribs. Alaska is 0:36:36.360 --> 0:36:39.520 famous for strict one waste, but most states are famous 0:36:39.560 --> 0:36:46.200 for our pretty lax. So I'll use an example of 0:36:46.200 --> 0:36:52.319 a friend of mine who has probably raised my self 0:36:52.480 --> 0:36:56.640 introspection or whatever, if that's the term, the introspection of 0:36:56.760 --> 0:37:02.160 my own activities more than anybody. And and he's avidel hunter, 0:37:03.000 --> 0:37:07.040 only Hans Cawalc because he it's for him. It's strictly 0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:09.680 about food there. They're nothing about the aniler part of 0:37:09.680 --> 0:37:13.000 it that interests him in the least. He salvages as 0:37:13.080 --> 0:37:16.120 much of it as he can and down to every 0:37:16.200 --> 0:37:18.600 everything he can carry out of there. But a lot 0:37:18.640 --> 0:37:23.800 of the parts he boils or he processes or uses 0:37:24.000 --> 0:37:28.880 for dog and he takes it to the next level 0:37:29.000 --> 0:37:33.680 of He's not a big fan of how commercially processed 0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:37.480 dog food is made, what that does to the landscape, 0:37:37.520 --> 0:37:40.400 what that does to I mean, if you look at 0:37:40.440 --> 0:37:43.839 how dog foods made, there's that's a that's a can 0:37:43.920 --> 0:37:47.960 of ethics, societal ethics that might really, yeah, what can 0:37:48.040 --> 0:37:50.799 hunters do to help that out? So his theory is, 0:37:50.960 --> 0:37:54.000 I'm one, I'm not going to participate in that system. 0:37:54.040 --> 0:37:58.680 My dog is my closest non human friend, and I 0:37:58.719 --> 0:38:00.799 want them to have the highest ality food, just like 0:38:00.840 --> 0:38:05.759 I'm getting nice quality food. So livers, tongues, pieces that 0:38:05.840 --> 0:38:11.160 maybe he's not using, he brings back and he he 0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:13.400 feeds to his dog. And so some would say, well, 0:38:13.440 --> 0:38:16.760 what's the difference between an edible part, like you said, 0:38:17.360 --> 0:38:20.480 the liver, Why is it okay to feed that to 0:38:20.560 --> 0:38:23.080 your dog but not the breast off of allard yeah, 0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:26.120 now I've heard I've heard some people say. In fact, 0:38:27.200 --> 0:38:32.480 the friend Andrew McKean, well, I'm sure we all know. Well, um, 0:38:32.560 --> 0:38:34.719 him and I had this conversation one time around one 0:38:34.800 --> 0:38:37.120 waste laws, because I'm like, is a universal one and 0:38:37.160 --> 0:38:41.719 waste law something we should pursue, and he just it's like, man, 0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:46.160 that's that's that's tough, and it's tough. And his point 0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:48.040 was like, I think it could make criminals out of 0:38:48.120 --> 0:38:51.400 the squeamish, Like it could make criminals out of folks 0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:56.439 who would prefer not to eat these things, Like I could, 0:38:56.600 --> 0:38:59.080 I could see that. But I also like, even in 0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:02.400 I was just reading them Montana, that's a little far fetched. 0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:04.200 I mean, if you all a sudden said sure you 0:39:04.200 --> 0:39:07.839 guys start eating hoofs and eyeballs. Yeah, but I mean 0:39:07.880 --> 0:39:11.240 if you what around internal Oregan though, if you said 0:39:11.600 --> 0:39:13.600 you must take the liver, you must take the heart, 0:39:13.640 --> 0:39:16.480 you must take the paunch, like you could go far 0:39:16.600 --> 0:39:19.240 that far. But in Montana they say for big game animals, 0:39:19.239 --> 0:39:22.440 all four quarters above the hawk, including loin and backstrap, 0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:26.439 fall into the category of of one waist. Hunters who 0:39:26.480 --> 0:39:28.360 can't use the wild game meat could donate it to 0:39:28.400 --> 0:39:31.040 a neighbor, friend or local food bank. And it's like, 0:39:31.080 --> 0:39:35.279 are you donating it to your dog like man's best friend? Well, yeah, 0:39:35.400 --> 0:39:37.960 is it any different? Is it any different? Let's say 0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:41.080 you're not eating either anything you kill. Is it any 0:39:41.080 --> 0:39:43.440 different to feed it to your dog or to dropped 0:39:43.480 --> 0:39:45.640 off at the food bank. If we're talking about ethics 0:39:45.640 --> 0:39:47.600 of you going out there and killing and then either 0:39:47.719 --> 0:39:51.040 eating it yourself consuming it or not, does it matter 0:39:51.040 --> 0:39:52.520 if you if it goes to the dog or go 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:54.400 to the food bank. Yeah, Because if it's a question 0:39:54.400 --> 0:39:57.320 of just replacement, like you're you know, like this wild 0:39:57.320 --> 0:40:01.360 game is replacing factory farms something or or store bought something. 0:40:01.800 --> 0:40:04.680 In that case, there is a direct line too. You 0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:09.000 know this this is still doing some good. Whether it 0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:11.000 just really depends like to the level of what you're 0:40:11.000 --> 0:40:13.560 doing it. You know, if you're flopping a backstrap down 0:40:14.200 --> 0:40:18.840 for your dog, I mean, I got I gotta tell you, 0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:21.280 you'd have to really give me, you have to really 0:40:21.280 --> 0:40:23.919 give me a good reason, yeah, that that's not going 0:40:23.960 --> 0:40:26.120 into your belly or somebody one of your family members 0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:29.040 or your neighbor or something. We'd have to have a 0:40:29.080 --> 0:40:31.200 really deep conversation about that. Yeah, but see, I think 0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:33.840 this is beyond that. I think it's more about, like, 0:40:35.360 --> 0:40:38.319 is it ethically okay to shoot stuff and not eat it? 0:40:38.960 --> 0:40:41.680 That's I think that's the core of Yeah, that's the 0:40:41.680 --> 0:40:43.880 core of this question, and that was the core of 0:40:43.920 --> 0:40:45.400 the first one too. I mean that, like, if they 0:40:45.400 --> 0:40:47.640 were eating the crows, that email would have never came in, 0:40:48.040 --> 0:40:51.440 that message would have never came in. And back to 0:40:51.719 --> 0:40:55.800 the point of where ethics becomes a discussion of motives 0:40:56.000 --> 0:41:00.719 and preferences. Is usually a discussion of how or mechanisms 0:41:00.760 --> 0:41:04.080 and tools used. I think if it if both these 0:41:04.200 --> 0:41:07.440 questions are a discussion of the ethics of shooting something 0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:12.560 with no intend of eating it, most of society, even 0:41:12.640 --> 0:41:15.439 most of the hunting community, is going to say that 0:41:15.480 --> 0:41:20.160 deserves some some scrutiny, Yeah, some ethical Look, yeah, I 0:41:20.200 --> 0:41:23.680 think we could probably all just just not agree on that. 0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:26.279 It's not universe. None of these things are universal. But 0:41:26.840 --> 0:41:29.920 as if you're a non hunter or even an anti hunter, 0:41:31.200 --> 0:41:32.680 I it is hard to sit in a room with 0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:34.759 somebody who doesn't go hunting and say, I shot that 0:41:34.920 --> 0:41:37.080 and killed it, but I didn't need it. I mean, 0:41:38.480 --> 0:41:41.080 you're gonna you're gonna be in a fight or an 0:41:41.160 --> 0:41:45.400 argument pretty quickly, and your rationalization is going to seem 0:41:45.400 --> 0:41:48.279 whether it's altruistic or whether you think it's right, it's 0:41:48.320 --> 0:41:51.479 going to seem selfish regardless of how you talk around it. 0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:56.360 Like there's just no way to get around that. Um coyote. 0:41:56.400 --> 0:41:58.120 I mean, you know, we had we had the question 0:41:58.200 --> 0:42:01.600 last time about shooting coyotes and what that means. I mean, 0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:04.680 it's the same thing because you don't nobody's eating him. Well, 0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:07.719 you know what my buddy Bendricks wrote in you know Bendricks, 0:42:09.120 --> 0:42:13.800 he's Kyle eating fool. I've got his recipe, and uh, 0:42:14.080 --> 0:42:16.520 next time I run across Kyle it shoot him a 0:42:16.520 --> 0:42:19.200 reply about crows and it's gonna die and I'm gonna 0:42:19.200 --> 0:42:22.399 eat it. He was saying that back in the day, 0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:27.920 he felt like some of our indigenous would that was 0:42:28.000 --> 0:42:31.239 like the meal you served when guests were over wasn't 0:42:31.239 --> 0:42:34.520 necessarily kyo, but to be dog or a wolf. And 0:42:34.600 --> 0:42:39.600 some of the northern indigenous people of the North Marin continent, yeah, 0:42:39.640 --> 0:42:42.120 they eate wolf all the time. Our friend Ryan Callahan 0:42:42.280 --> 0:42:44.279 was very excited to try to cook and eat one 0:42:44.280 --> 0:42:47.160 of his friends over there in Idaho shot a wolf recently. 0:42:47.200 --> 0:42:49.640 It was very excited to get some of that meat 0:42:49.640 --> 0:42:51.400 and cooking and eat it. I don't think he was 0:42:51.440 --> 0:42:53.720 able to get it in time, but he was excited 0:42:53.760 --> 0:42:56.040 to do it and see I would eat it. I'm not. 0:42:56.080 --> 0:42:59.319 I don't have any problem with it. What like, how 0:42:59.320 --> 0:43:02.640 do you how did we get to a point where society, like, 0:43:02.719 --> 0:43:07.200 culturally we just don't think of these things as edible creatures, 0:43:07.200 --> 0:43:12.400 like we just don't. Um, I speaking of the wolf issue. Um. 0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:17.320 When Montana opened their wolf season, Steve called me and said, 0:43:17.920 --> 0:43:20.200 because I told him I was going wolf onund and 0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:22.600 he said, well, if you guys get one, let's cook it. 0:43:22.960 --> 0:43:26.000 And this was way back before either of our platforms 0:43:26.000 --> 0:43:28.680 where the size they are today. And so we hunted 0:43:28.680 --> 0:43:30.560 for eleven days. We finally shot a wolf fair in 0:43:30.600 --> 0:43:37.160 Montana and skinned it. Got it already. I'm you know, 0:43:37.239 --> 0:43:39.080 put this thing in the freezer and Steph and I 0:43:39.120 --> 0:43:43.759 are going to look like it's very red, very red. Yeah, 0:43:43.840 --> 0:43:50.640 I mean not supid, better than a black bear? Yeah? Lightly? Yeah, No, 0:43:50.719 --> 0:43:53.759 I mean obviously not like like like you don't have 0:43:53.840 --> 0:43:58.959 any store. Um. So I take it to the fish 0:43:58.960 --> 0:44:01.239 wildlife and parks off us here in Montana. You gotta 0:44:01.239 --> 0:44:05.080 bring them in and and they way, They checked the teeth, 0:44:05.160 --> 0:44:08.680 everything else. And I'm talking to the biologist and the 0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:11.000 biologist says, what are you gonna do with it? Well, 0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:13.919 we're gonna eat it. And instantly the biologist says, whoa, whoa, whoa, 0:44:13.920 --> 0:44:18.080 whoa whoa. Wait a second. Here, this biologist had worked 0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:22.200 on the introduction team and had been monitoring the health 0:44:22.239 --> 0:44:25.319 of all these colored wolves. The disease what killed a 0:44:25.320 --> 0:44:29.200 lot of them, and this biologist said, I would strongly 0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:34.600 recommend against that. What And I said, We'll just cook 0:44:34.640 --> 0:44:37.239 it enough to get rid of whatever's there in. The 0:44:37.239 --> 0:44:43.960 biologist said I would suggest not eating that, which struck me. 0:44:44.680 --> 0:44:49.600 So about a month later, Steve reaches out to me 0:44:49.600 --> 0:44:51.920 and says, what did you do with the wolf? I 0:44:52.000 --> 0:44:55.680 told him what I just did do And I don't 0:44:55.680 --> 0:44:58.640 think Steve was convinced that we couldn't cook it out 0:44:58.640 --> 0:45:01.400 of that. So point is, how do we get to 0:45:01.440 --> 0:45:06.480 that stage? I think our concern for human health sometimes 0:45:06.600 --> 0:45:13.399 is so hyper sensitive that we'll take zero risk. And 0:45:13.560 --> 0:45:17.719 as a think about wolves have been on this landscape 0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:25.840 since forever, oh other people's prior cultures, prior societies didn't 0:45:25.880 --> 0:45:28.360 have back to your point on as a luxuries didn't 0:45:28.400 --> 0:45:30.520 have the luxury of Saint Juan. I'm I'm not going 0:45:30.560 --> 0:45:34.200 to take that risk. They looked at and said, I'm hungry. Yeah, 0:45:34.200 --> 0:45:36.799 I'm hungry. Right. I took a lot of I took 0:45:36.800 --> 0:45:39.720 a lot of risk in trying to harvest whatever this animal. 0:45:40.719 --> 0:45:45.560 I'm going to eat this thing. I so ever, since that, 0:45:46.360 --> 0:45:48.719 I've struggled with the idea that we didn't eat that 0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:52.759 wolf at the recommendation of a biologist talk about and 0:45:52.760 --> 0:45:55.600 that's just a comes back to the modern luxury we 0:45:55.600 --> 0:45:58.400 we started around, you know were I I saw it 0:45:58.440 --> 0:46:04.040 around Havelina like always, oh, skunk pig. You know that 0:46:04.320 --> 0:46:07.799 the cowboys in Texas wouldn't even touch him, they kill 0:46:07.880 --> 0:46:11.239 him on site, wouldn't even touch him, you know. When 0:46:11.239 --> 0:46:12.960 I got down there, like, yeah, if you shoot a hobling, 0:46:13.040 --> 0:46:15.080 just leave it, like I just put in the bushes. 0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:19.239 And the first time I shot one, I like, why not, 0:46:19.320 --> 0:46:22.040 just let's try to eat it? Oh they stink? Well yeah, 0:46:22.080 --> 0:46:24.520 I mean I've shot a lot of stinky old Like 0:46:25.120 --> 0:46:29.680 the smell of an animal doesn't translate. Always taste the meat. 0:46:29.680 --> 0:46:32.360 And we cooked the first one shot we cooked up, 0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:35.359 and I'm like, this is delicious. What are we talking about? 0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:37.759 And every time that we would go back that same ranch, 0:46:37.800 --> 0:46:40.000 I'd be excited to shoot one and skin and eat it. 0:46:40.600 --> 0:46:44.760 And so I just perspective like cultural norms that' say 0:46:44.840 --> 0:46:47.759 this thing is this way, and and it likely was 0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:51.000 just the cowboys and the ranch hands there would shoot 0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:53.080 him and smell them and not want to touch him, 0:46:53.120 --> 0:46:55.319 and it and it grew from there. It's just like 0:46:55.320 --> 0:47:00.560 a cultural norm in Texas. Um. I'm you know, I 0:47:00.600 --> 0:47:03.640 hate that that, you know, with our transplanting of wolves 0:47:03.719 --> 0:47:07.760 and our fear of you know, disease, that we've probably 0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:10.239 implanted that in our culture now that it's you know, 0:47:10.280 --> 0:47:12.520 I know we have because nobody's sitting around going I'd 0:47:12.520 --> 0:47:14.560 love to eat. Though somebody says I just ate a coyo. 0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:17.600 You look at them like they're crazy. I'll take that 0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:20.120 to the next step. My son just shot a bowl 0:47:20.200 --> 0:47:23.600 out in Wyoming in the absolute core of their chronic 0:47:23.640 --> 0:47:28.959 wasting disease area. People have asked, that's so you're gonna 0:47:28.960 --> 0:47:32.160 eat it. Yeah, I'm gonna eat it. You can get 0:47:32.200 --> 0:47:37.920 it tested first. You're not gonna eat it, really there's 0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:42.880 been no proven Yeah, but like the like Brian Richards, 0:47:42.960 --> 0:47:46.160 the like own c w D in our country, might 0:47:46.320 --> 0:47:49.680 be the most knowledgeable person about it. He says, you 0:47:49.760 --> 0:47:53.560 hate to be the first one. I'm back to that 0:47:53.640 --> 0:47:59.319 point of risks. Your risks are sold. Yes, I'm I'm 0:47:59.360 --> 0:48:03.279 eating it. We've already started, so I'm far down that 0:48:03.320 --> 0:48:05.640 path already. Would you go like full bone in neck, 0:48:05.640 --> 0:48:09.319 groast like stuff like that? Obviously, when you're hunting in 0:48:09.360 --> 0:48:12.680 a c w D endemic area, you're not gonna you 0:48:12.680 --> 0:48:15.040 gotta leave the bones behind and yeah, yeah, and you're 0:48:15.080 --> 0:48:17.160 not gonna have a spinal tissue or any of that 0:48:17.200 --> 0:48:20.920 stuff that you bring with you. So I you know, 0:48:22.040 --> 0:48:24.640 in some listening are probably saying, well, Randy, why did 0:48:24.680 --> 0:48:26.239 you let a biology just talk to you out of 0:48:26.280 --> 0:48:30.760 eating a wolf? But yeah, everybody says you shouldn't eat 0:48:31.920 --> 0:48:34.080 You should get every animal tested in a c w 0:48:34.280 --> 0:48:37.800 D area, and if it's positive, you should junk it. Well, 0:48:37.840 --> 0:48:39.880 a couple of reasons why I won't junk it is 0:48:39.920 --> 0:48:43.040 where am I gonna junk it? In Montana? If it's infected? 0:48:44.600 --> 0:48:46.480 If I go dump it somewhere, am I going to 0:48:46.640 --> 0:48:49.160 spread a hotspot to c w D on the landscape. 0:48:49.200 --> 0:48:53.239 Someone to say no, because it's not brain tissue landfills 0:48:53.280 --> 0:48:56.400 where you're supposed to a lot of Yeah, there's get 0:48:56.480 --> 0:48:58.480 a lot of folks are in the hotspots are like 0:48:58.560 --> 0:49:03.359 dumpsters where you can write. Yeah, So I'm gonna take 0:49:03.400 --> 0:49:08.160 my risk. Yeah, what the hell I this elk is? 0:49:08.640 --> 0:49:11.719 It's if it's got c w D man c w 0:49:11.880 --> 0:49:15.799 D O tastes pretty damn good. They're gonna come out 0:49:15.840 --> 0:49:20.799 with the seasoning at CWD on it tastes delicious. All right, 0:49:20.840 --> 0:49:22.919 let's see what else we got. This one came this, 0:49:22.920 --> 0:49:25.080 This one came in a bunch of different forms, and 0:49:25.120 --> 0:49:27.839 I'll just read this one. Um, I must have got 0:49:28.160 --> 0:49:30.759 fifty of these. So you're out hunting and this came 0:49:30.800 --> 0:49:34.200 from Tommy Kato. You're so you're out hunting. The first 0:49:34.239 --> 0:49:38.600 critter that walks by is limping pretty badly. It's obvious 0:49:38.640 --> 0:49:40.440 that it was either on the losing end of a 0:49:40.480 --> 0:49:43.279 fight or had survived another hunter's porch shop placement, and 0:49:43.320 --> 0:49:46.200 the wound has healed. It's not the animal you're after. 0:49:47.480 --> 0:49:49.400 Whether that would be a big giant buck is Steve 0:49:49.480 --> 0:49:51.920 Ronella puts it or a dough but you have a 0:49:51.960 --> 0:49:54.319 tag and can legally hunt it. Should you take that 0:49:54.400 --> 0:49:57.640 animal understanding that there may be significant meat loss around 0:49:57.680 --> 0:50:00.319 the old wound, and in an efort to spirit from 0:50:00.520 --> 0:50:03.040 what would be a slow what could be a slow, 0:50:03.040 --> 0:50:06.719 painful death. I think the answer is pretty cut and dry. 0:50:07.040 --> 0:50:09.400 If a deer slash elk runs by in front of 0:50:09.400 --> 0:50:13.200 you and was just shot and still bleeding, you finished 0:50:13.200 --> 0:50:16.120 the job. But what about something that has healed but 0:50:16.160 --> 0:50:19.960 the animal is clearly struggling as a result of the injury. 0:50:20.400 --> 0:50:25.120 So there's lots to unpack there for sure. But Yanna, 0:50:25.200 --> 0:50:29.600 you want to tackle Listen first, I can try. Um. 0:50:30.120 --> 0:50:33.440 I don't think we hunters and people just happened to 0:50:33.440 --> 0:50:37.600 be out in the field with a weapon need to 0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:44.360 be playing uh guide out there and interfering. Um, you 0:50:44.360 --> 0:50:46.719 can just la let nature be do its thing. And 0:50:46.719 --> 0:50:48.480 I don't think you need to feel bad that there's 0:50:48.520 --> 0:50:51.719 an animal out there suffering. We don't even know that 0:50:51.760 --> 0:50:55.239 they actually do suffer. He might just be doing his thing, 0:50:55.320 --> 0:50:57.640 And I think you can't in that moment probably make 0:50:57.680 --> 0:51:01.399 that decision, know for sure that if I shoot it now, 0:51:01.600 --> 0:51:03.959 it's gonna die now versus it dying in a week. 0:51:04.040 --> 0:51:07.040 You don't know that there's just especially with the wound 0:51:07.080 --> 0:51:12.520 that's healed over. Um, I did do it once I 0:51:12.560 --> 0:51:15.520 saw one had been hit on the mule deer dough 0:51:15.600 --> 0:51:18.359 had been hit on the highway ahead of me, and 0:51:18.640 --> 0:51:20.000 I was in the middle of the road just like 0:51:20.080 --> 0:51:22.759 barely could lift up its head, you know, And so 0:51:22.920 --> 0:51:25.480 we pulled off. And that was back when I thought 0:51:25.480 --> 0:51:27.160 it was a little bit more of a cowboy than 0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:29.360 I actually was. I used to always have a pistol 0:51:29.440 --> 0:51:33.000 kicking around pre kids, you know, just the pistols laying 0:51:33.000 --> 0:51:35.480 around in the car. And so yeah, we pulled her 0:51:35.480 --> 0:51:38.239 off into the ditch and uh, you know, shot her 0:51:38.360 --> 0:51:44.320 and just left her. Um for that kind of reason, right, Um, 0:51:44.560 --> 0:51:47.319 probably should have. I don't know. We've tried. I've tried 0:51:47.320 --> 0:51:50.920 to salvage road kill meat and it didn't work out good. Um, 0:51:51.080 --> 0:51:52.239 So I don't know if there would have been something 0:51:52.280 --> 0:51:55.520 salvage or not. But yeah, I don't know. I don't 0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:59.480 feel like it's really it's like not our ethical responsibility 0:51:59.680 --> 0:52:02.400 to be out there like be like, oh that animals 0:52:02.440 --> 0:52:05.279 suffering and now I'm gonna, you know, play god and 0:52:05.320 --> 0:52:07.279 take it out of its misery. You see that a 0:52:07.280 --> 0:52:10.120 lot though. You surely see that a lot. See that 0:52:10.120 --> 0:52:13.240 around animals calling defences, You see that a lot around 0:52:13.400 --> 0:52:16.840 road kill. Yeah, I feel like the hunter maybe feels 0:52:16.840 --> 0:52:20.920 responsible for for that animal's life, having been directly involved 0:52:20.920 --> 0:52:24.080 in the taking of some Yeah, I would agree with 0:52:24.080 --> 0:52:27.160 what Jana said, But then I have to look at 0:52:27.719 --> 0:52:32.640 when I was presented with that situation. Uh As in 0:52:32.719 --> 0:52:37.000 New Mexico, You're a prong horn archery prong horn tag 0:52:37.160 --> 0:52:41.000 in a unit that was considered by most to be 0:52:41.040 --> 0:52:46.800 a very sought after trophy prong horn unit, And I'm 0:52:46.800 --> 0:52:50.719 sitting in the blind and incomes this buck. That's it's 0:52:50.760 --> 0:52:54.879 an average buck. It's not the anywhere near the top 0:52:55.000 --> 0:52:58.440 end of what people think of when you say the 0:52:58.480 --> 0:53:03.160 planes of St. Augustine in New Mexico. But it is 0:53:03.320 --> 0:53:08.080 limping really, really bad. And at first, when I was 0:53:08.120 --> 0:53:12.080 watching it way out there, I'm thinking about, O coyot 0:53:12.160 --> 0:53:14.720 will take care of that problem. You know that that 0:53:14.719 --> 0:53:17.520 that antelope is not going to make it that long. 0:53:18.600 --> 0:53:22.600 And then the thing comes walking into the waterhole, and 0:53:23.239 --> 0:53:25.719 over the course of a half hour it takes for 0:53:25.840 --> 0:53:29.640 that prong horn to get to the water hole, I'm 0:53:29.680 --> 0:53:34.080 now faced. I'm face to face with this problem. I 0:53:34.080 --> 0:53:37.279 I can't deny it. It's on camera, it's a film. 0:53:37.320 --> 0:53:40.280 I'm gonna have to decide what I'm going to do 0:53:40.760 --> 0:53:44.719 when this prong horn comes into that water hole and 0:53:44.800 --> 0:53:49.080 he keeps coming, and it keeps coming, and it is 0:53:49.160 --> 0:53:55.200 laboring hard, and I'll admit to having this dilemma of 0:53:55.320 --> 0:53:57.960 do I shoot that prong horn or do I not? 0:53:59.120 --> 0:54:03.200 And for me with archery, now, did you let me 0:54:03.239 --> 0:54:05.680 ask you a question? Did you know? Did you Were 0:54:05.719 --> 0:54:10.080 you thinking that it was a hunter induced injury or 0:54:11.080 --> 0:54:15.960 I couldn't. It was limping severely. I had no idea 0:54:16.000 --> 0:54:20.040 why I was limping. But it gets to the water 0:54:20.120 --> 0:54:24.719 hole at twenty yards and you can see that this 0:54:24.840 --> 0:54:28.200 is this animal is having a tough go of it, 0:54:29.239 --> 0:54:30.880 and at that point in time, I said, you know 0:54:30.960 --> 0:54:35.920 what I would. I was just making this decision of 0:54:36.160 --> 0:54:38.200 do I want to keep hunting and try to shoot 0:54:38.440 --> 0:54:41.200 one of these huge prong horn this area is noted for, 0:54:42.200 --> 0:54:45.360 or do I want to shoot this animal? Just because 0:54:46.120 --> 0:54:51.319 in that close twenty yard face to face engagement, it's 0:54:51.640 --> 0:54:54.520 it's way less abstract than when you see it out 0:54:54.520 --> 0:55:00.120 there at five hundred yards and it comes in waters, 0:55:00.960 --> 0:55:03.400 and I said, you know what, and I shot it, 0:55:04.480 --> 0:55:10.239 And to this day, I i've personally I feel good 0:55:10.280 --> 0:55:13.440 about that. Now, what I've not felt good about it? 0:55:13.480 --> 0:55:16.040 If I let it go away, I suspect it would 0:55:16.040 --> 0:55:19.120 have went off and I would have not that much 0:55:19.120 --> 0:55:21.719 different for it. But at that point in time, in 0:55:21.760 --> 0:55:26.719 that situation, with that intersection of all these things going 0:55:26.760 --> 0:55:31.040 through my mind, I decided to shoot it and got 0:55:31.080 --> 0:55:33.160 over there and looked at had a deformed hoof, that's 0:55:33.160 --> 0:55:35.399 why it was limping. It had a hoof that looked 0:55:35.440 --> 0:55:39.359 like a big long elf slipper like Santa Elms, where 0:55:41.160 --> 0:55:43.359 I had never seen that in a problem right before. 0:55:43.400 --> 0:55:46.959 So he'd figured out how to make a living out there, 0:55:47.640 --> 0:55:50.719 even limping like that. So why was I so concerned? 0:55:51.280 --> 0:55:55.440 I guess it's just all of us who hunt. I 0:55:55.480 --> 0:55:59.120 hope we have some compassion for the animals that did us. 0:55:59.600 --> 0:56:02.920 And I would say that was one of those instances 0:56:02.920 --> 0:56:09.040 where my compassion or worry and maybe I'm putting some 0:56:09.239 --> 0:56:13.440 human traits or characteristics or emotions to what that animal 0:56:13.640 --> 0:56:16.239 was going through. Back to your point, you honest, maybe 0:56:16.280 --> 0:56:20.200 it had it had Maybe it had really no worried 0:56:20.239 --> 0:56:25.360 at all, just life as he yeah, and uh, but 0:56:25.680 --> 0:56:29.640 as a hunter, I said, well, I think I'm gonna 0:56:29.840 --> 0:56:32.080 take care of this until I shot it and it 0:56:32.680 --> 0:56:36.319 went ten yards and into that story. Doesn't make me 0:56:36.520 --> 0:56:41.759 any you know, any better internally for doing it. I 0:56:41.800 --> 0:56:44.640 don't know. Make sure it tastes good. I know that, 0:56:44.719 --> 0:56:47.680 but that really ends up being the motivation behind it, right, 0:56:47.840 --> 0:56:50.520 is like how it makes you feel? Right, Yeah, that's 0:56:50.560 --> 0:56:52.719 It's an interesting This is to me an interesting one 0:56:52.760 --> 0:56:54.640 because if I if you were just a straight predator, 0:56:54.680 --> 0:56:58.240 you'd be like, oh, easy, yeah, easy, I'll take it done. 0:56:58.640 --> 0:57:01.000 That's right. If you were hungry, right, you're like, oh, 0:57:01.040 --> 0:57:02.960 oh my god, that's the preferent one. Yeah, that's the 0:57:02.960 --> 0:57:06.520 perfect one. It can barely get away, So you'd be 0:57:06.560 --> 0:57:10.040 thinking about that. But at the same time, yeah, maybe 0:57:10.080 --> 0:57:14.080 I don't even have to burn a bullet or walk 0:57:14.160 --> 0:57:19.120 over and inform tackle it, like like, so you have that. 0:57:19.200 --> 0:57:21.800 But they're the other part. I think why this and 0:57:22.000 --> 0:57:24.280 this always comes up. This came up a lot in 0:57:24.320 --> 0:57:28.080 my reading of all these readers. Listener and read your feedback, 0:57:28.160 --> 0:57:31.640 is like, this is a unique situation for a hunter, 0:57:31.920 --> 0:57:35.400 someone holding a hunting license, you know, possibly also a 0:57:35.440 --> 0:57:39.920 game manager or whatever. But as far as like just 0:57:40.000 --> 0:57:44.680 regular populace, this is a unique experience for a hunter. 0:57:44.880 --> 0:57:47.800 And and if someone else, if you're out hiking and 0:57:47.840 --> 0:57:50.520 you see a limping animal and you don't hold a 0:57:50.600 --> 0:57:53.439 hunting license, what are you going to do? Like there 0:57:53.480 --> 0:57:56.040 is no responsibility other than keep on hiking. I think 0:57:56.080 --> 0:57:59.000 it's unique to hunters to some degree. But as someone 0:57:59.080 --> 0:58:01.680 who's had to make the decision in the last however 0:58:01.720 --> 0:58:04.440 many years with two of my labs as they got older, 0:58:06.240 --> 0:58:11.680 I I took it to the vet, and the vet 0:58:11.920 --> 0:58:18.080 usually lets the pet owner make the decision, and I 0:58:18.200 --> 0:58:22.000 felt even a more powerful dilemma there. Why because this 0:58:22.520 --> 0:58:26.000 animal lived in my house, almost part of my family 0:58:26.120 --> 0:58:29.800 for for years. But I think the rest of society 0:58:29.920 --> 0:58:33.240 is faced with that decision with the other animals we love. 0:58:34.680 --> 0:58:37.560 It was very heart wrenching to decide that Merle and 0:58:37.640 --> 0:58:42.040 Copper had reached the point and now I'm I'm judge 0:58:42.040 --> 0:58:47.400 and jury. Is Meral really feeling that bad that he 0:58:47.400 --> 0:58:51.440 he should be put down? I had to make that 0:58:51.480 --> 0:58:55.600 decision and ask him. Yeah. I still to this day 0:58:55.720 --> 0:58:58.360 whenever I go out to his kennel and I see 0:58:58.560 --> 0:59:03.120 his doghouse, there the thought entered my mind, Why well, 0:59:03.120 --> 0:59:05.200 why was it? Why did I feel that I had 0:59:05.240 --> 0:59:07.280 to intervene there? Why didn't I just let the natural 0:59:07.320 --> 0:59:11.680 course of events take place. I think we as society, 0:59:11.680 --> 0:59:16.080 whether we're hunters or not hunters, we take our societal 0:59:16.200 --> 0:59:18.960 norms or our societal where he's and we place it 0:59:19.040 --> 0:59:21.960 into that situation. Yeah, I mean, and also as ya, 0:59:22.080 --> 0:59:23.680 he was kind of getting that, like, mercy is a 0:59:23.760 --> 0:59:27.840 virtue that we'd all you don't like to have, you know, 0:59:28.000 --> 0:59:31.440 And like, so I wish I could have asked merral 0:59:31.600 --> 0:59:35.200 his thoughts. Maybe he would have said, don't put me down, man, 0:59:35.280 --> 0:59:41.760 I'm still yeah here, or you're most late man sucks, Yeah, 0:59:42.440 --> 0:59:47.120 knocked me down. So I do think, uh, as we 0:59:47.200 --> 0:59:52.720 interact with all of the other living creatures of this society, Uh, 0:59:52.880 --> 0:59:56.720 we do put ourselves in those situations. Maybe we don't 0:59:56.720 --> 0:59:59.320 think of it in that context. I do think of 0:59:59.360 --> 1:00:01.439 it in that in text with my my two dogs 1:00:01.480 --> 1:00:03.440 that had to make that decision with and it sucks. 1:00:04.680 --> 1:00:07.040 I've got it. My wife's got a sixteen year old 1:00:07.080 --> 1:00:11.120 dog now and it's staff and it's part partly blind, 1:00:11.200 --> 1:00:14.600 and yeah, we're gonna be faced with another decision the 1:00:14.640 --> 1:00:18.800 same as I felt some of those same emotions when 1:00:18.800 --> 1:00:21.040 that prong horn was coming into my blink, other than 1:00:21.280 --> 1:00:24.280 I intended to eat. Yeah, the big difference is that 1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:26.480 you don't really know it and you didn't eat it. 1:00:26.520 --> 1:00:29.680 But still the same, Like, that's still the same general 1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:32.320 quandary you struggle with the same thing. Have you ever 1:00:32.320 --> 1:00:33.840 had to do that? Yeah, I put a dog and 1:00:33.960 --> 1:00:38.720 he pops down. Yes, six years ago, is my wife's dog. 1:00:39.120 --> 1:00:41.880 But yeah, because we had two folks in town, we 1:00:41.880 --> 1:00:44.240 had a big meeting here at the media to incorporated this. 1:00:44.240 --> 1:00:46.760 We had two folks in town who one April Fokey 1:00:46.760 --> 1:00:49.920 found out her dog had cancer and Brodie Henderson found 1:00:49.920 --> 1:00:52.200 out their dog was was going to be put down 1:00:52.240 --> 1:00:55.280 within days, just in and I've I've owned dogs, but 1:00:55.320 --> 1:00:58.600 not in my adult life. And so you see that 1:00:58.840 --> 1:01:01.760 hit people with you know, in Brodie's case and in 1:01:01.840 --> 1:01:04.640 April's case, they were both now having to make these 1:01:04.640 --> 1:01:08.080 decisions like when you know, when are we gonna do this, 1:01:08.160 --> 1:01:09.680 How are we gonna do it, How are we gonna 1:01:09.680 --> 1:01:12.760 tell the children, how we're gonna present this in some 1:01:12.840 --> 1:01:15.280 kind of positive way, because it has to happen. I 1:01:15.360 --> 1:01:18.360 mean that's your right. I mean, that's that's way heavier 1:01:18.400 --> 1:01:23.080 than should I shoot this limping antelope that's walking into 1:01:23.080 --> 1:01:28.240 the water. I've never I've never had I've never had 1:01:28.280 --> 1:01:31.800 the a wounded animal come across that I felt like 1:01:31.800 --> 1:01:33.919 I could have shot and didn't. I've never had I've 1:01:33.960 --> 1:01:36.480 never had that. But I feel I really do feel 1:01:36.880 --> 1:01:38.760 like I agree with Joanni. I feel like that's well 1:01:38.800 --> 1:01:42.120 put the way that you What I would tell this gentleman, 1:01:42.200 --> 1:01:45.760 is is it's not your responsibility. You you have the choice. 1:01:45.840 --> 1:01:48.360 You bought a hunting lecesnse. You can choose whichever animal 1:01:48.480 --> 1:01:51.680 you would like like as long as you can effectively 1:01:51.720 --> 1:01:54.360 take it. So if that's what you choose, there's some 1:01:54.480 --> 1:01:57.040 virtue in that. Great. But if you don't choose that, 1:01:57.080 --> 1:02:00.960 don't feel guilty that animals are of natural world is 1:02:01.000 --> 1:02:03.880 a harsh, damn place, and so you're not making it 1:02:03.880 --> 1:02:07.600 any easier on anybody by but inserting too much mercy 1:02:07.640 --> 1:02:11.680 into it. Can I flip that question? Sure? On my platforms, 1:02:11.960 --> 1:02:15.080 on my website, my podcast, I threw it out the 1:02:15.120 --> 1:02:23.400 other way. You hit an animal, do you keep hunting? Yeah? Yeah, 1:02:23.760 --> 1:02:25.480 we had this. I had this discussion with Mark kennying 1:02:25.520 --> 1:02:33.440 around white Tails yesterday and no is my answer. And 1:02:33.960 --> 1:02:37.440 there's been a if you throw that question out there, 1:02:37.520 --> 1:02:43.360 be prepared for about fo Uh. Yeah. I don't necessarily 1:02:43.440 --> 1:02:45.680 judge anyone by what they do or don't do in 1:02:45.720 --> 1:02:49.959 that situation, but I think it's a worthwhile discussion. It is, Yeah, 1:02:50.040 --> 1:02:51.800 it very much is, because there's a lot of different 1:02:51.840 --> 1:02:56.240 situations that comment. We were talking yesterday about just the 1:02:56.360 --> 1:02:59.880 value of the knowledge you have to, like there was 1:03:00.000 --> 1:03:01.760 possibility of being a hunter. You have to have the 1:03:01.840 --> 1:03:04.160 knowledge to know did I kill this thing or not. 1:03:05.160 --> 1:03:06.919 You have to be able to track it and read 1:03:06.920 --> 1:03:09.440 its blood. You have to be able to understand how 1:03:09.480 --> 1:03:11.440 it would use the terrain and where it might go, 1:03:11.680 --> 1:03:15.000 and property boundaries and all. It's gonna run on the 1:03:15.040 --> 1:03:17.800 public land, well, it's rifle season. It's probably gonna get 1:03:18.080 --> 1:03:21.280 probably gonna get dumped pretty quickly. Um. But I think 1:03:21.320 --> 1:03:23.080 that just all that to me goes back to if 1:03:23.120 --> 1:03:26.560 you've done your part by being proficient with your weapon 1:03:27.520 --> 1:03:30.160 of choice, understanding how to track it and recover an 1:03:30.160 --> 1:03:34.080 animal properly. That's really probably the first step in making 1:03:34.120 --> 1:03:36.960 that and answering that question, have you done all those things? First, 1:03:37.440 --> 1:03:40.040 Alaska for black beards, they make that decision for you. 1:03:40.520 --> 1:03:42.360 If you hit an animal, you're done. Well most a 1:03:42.400 --> 1:03:45.520 lot of outfitters do, but a ton of outfitters, right, 1:03:45.760 --> 1:03:49.280 And so I threw the question out there, should that 1:03:49.360 --> 1:03:52.880 be a law for all species? Why? Why? Why did 1:03:53.040 --> 1:03:56.240 black bears? Wouldn't that make Alaska? Wouldn't that make us 1:03:56.280 --> 1:03:58.840 more ethical? Wouldn't that make like if you knew you 1:03:58.880 --> 1:04:02.040 had one arrow to shoot and that was it, and 1:04:02.080 --> 1:04:04.680 that was all you had, you shot it, it was over, 1:04:05.080 --> 1:04:07.400 and it hit the animal, it was over, wouldn't you 1:04:07.440 --> 1:04:12.480 be I would hope that, you know. I guess for me, 1:04:14.040 --> 1:04:16.920 do you do you feel like you should legislate something 1:04:16.960 --> 1:04:21.040 that you hope people would come to whatever? And it 1:04:21.120 --> 1:04:23.600 may not be this, but whatever the topic is, should 1:04:23.640 --> 1:04:26.480 you legislate that or should you let it get that 1:04:26.840 --> 1:04:29.960 that's the people of their own doing. That's a tough one. 1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:33.479 Waste is like it should just be a societal norm, right, Yeah? 1:04:33.840 --> 1:04:36.920 And I have my way of answering that people have 1:04:37.000 --> 1:04:40.880 seen how I answer that. I give myself one animal, 1:04:41.080 --> 1:04:44.240 but if I hit it, i'm whether it's a superficial wound. 1:04:44.800 --> 1:04:48.040 I hunt that animal until I have to leave. If 1:04:48.040 --> 1:04:52.640 I don't find it, I'm done, or if I when 1:04:52.640 --> 1:04:55.000 I have to leave, you know, I'm not going to 1:04:55.080 --> 1:04:57.160 go look for another one. And some people have seen 1:04:57.200 --> 1:04:59.520 me do that and say, well, that's stupid, And I 1:04:59.560 --> 1:05:02.680 get that. You know, I'm afforded a luxury that a 1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:05.720 lot of people maybe aren't. I get the hunt a lot. 1:05:05.960 --> 1:05:11.160 My freezers seldom empty. Now if my freezer was empty 1:05:11.440 --> 1:05:14.960 and it's the last weekend of the rifle season and 1:05:15.240 --> 1:05:18.720 I'd hit one that I couldn't recover and here comes 1:05:19.440 --> 1:05:25.000 another one that that's a completely different contact of which 1:05:25.080 --> 1:05:27.520 that person has to analyze and make that decision than 1:05:27.640 --> 1:05:30.160 some guy like me who gets to hunt Tanna hunt's 1:05:30.160 --> 1:05:33.800 a year and I'm never going to be without wild 1:05:33.840 --> 1:05:36.760 game in my freezer. That's a big one. I mean, 1:05:36.800 --> 1:05:43.280 I think, yeah, if for sure, if you're hungry, you're 1:05:43.320 --> 1:05:47.040 going to be making decisions like you're you were less 1:05:47.080 --> 1:05:50.640 concerned with the animal. Like if you're you're way less concerned, 1:05:50.640 --> 1:05:54.320 you're more concerned with your own personal need to get sustenance, 1:05:54.320 --> 1:05:57.200 then you are worried about is this right to do? Like? 1:05:57.960 --> 1:06:00.560 Then that that's the luxury we're talking about here, Like 1:06:00.600 --> 1:06:03.200 there's just if you can I think remove that would 1:06:03.200 --> 1:06:06.760 be like I have zero wild meat. I really don't 1:06:06.760 --> 1:06:08.920 want to go to the store. But then you can 1:06:08.960 --> 1:06:10.600 still say, hey, you can still go to the store. 1:06:10.840 --> 1:06:14.040 Don't remove your ethics because you don't have any while meat. 1:06:14.080 --> 1:06:16.720 You can still go and get it some chicken until 1:06:16.720 --> 1:06:20.520 you can figure it out. Um, And there's always other 1:06:20.520 --> 1:06:23.160 seasons of things to go and kill. So I mean 1:06:23.160 --> 1:06:26.280 you can still argue, hey, man, like that that's the 1:06:26.320 --> 1:06:29.560 game here. The fact is we don't have to hunt 1:06:29.560 --> 1:06:32.520 to eat. Yeah, that's the fact. Like we want to 1:06:33.360 --> 1:06:35.360 and we know it enriches us and does a lot 1:06:35.360 --> 1:06:36.880 of things for us, but we don't have to. And 1:06:37.160 --> 1:06:41.000 so I just feel like it like all these things 1:06:41.000 --> 1:06:43.280 come down to some of these things, not all of 1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:45.360 them come down to does it change our behavior in 1:06:45.360 --> 1:06:47.960 a positive way? Like if we want like one waste, 1:06:48.040 --> 1:06:50.640 is that way? You know? It's like that's a in 1:06:50.680 --> 1:06:55.920 some ways an ethical um construct we've build into a law. Yeah, 1:06:56.240 --> 1:06:59.640 or like does this activity make us behave more in 1:06:59.640 --> 1:07:03.520 a more positive way with the intended purpose while we're after, 1:07:04.040 --> 1:07:06.280 which is to kill something effectively quickly and get it 1:07:06.320 --> 1:07:07.960 home and eat it. You know, I mean a lot 1:07:08.040 --> 1:07:11.680 of our regulations evolved from things that don't necessarily have 1:07:11.720 --> 1:07:15.440 anything to do with ethics. Yeah, they have to do 1:07:15.520 --> 1:07:18.680 with societal norms. Yeah, I mean clearly you talked about 1:07:18.720 --> 1:07:21.040 it on your platform. This is something that came up many, 1:07:21.080 --> 1:07:24.200 many times on this discussion. So it's something that a 1:07:24.240 --> 1:07:28.800 lot of people are thinking about and experiencing shortly, because 1:07:28.840 --> 1:07:32.240 that's you know, and it goes back to hunting with 1:07:32.720 --> 1:07:34.360 i'll you know a lot of the trends of i'll 1:07:34.400 --> 1:07:37.280 hunt with the boat during rifle season because it's I 1:07:37.400 --> 1:07:40.480 like the experience better. We're like, well, I don't know 1:07:40.520 --> 1:07:45.000 that the deer LEXI experience better. Like that's probably probably 1:07:45.040 --> 1:07:47.440 something to think about. We got a lot of people 1:07:48.040 --> 1:07:50.720 right in from Australia. I appreciate you guys down under. 1:07:51.960 --> 1:07:57.240 This was Alan Curtis. He says, why if hunters are 1:07:57.280 --> 1:08:01.200 after the quickest possible kill, does the head shots seem 1:08:01.240 --> 1:08:04.520 like an option that's not even on the table. Coming 1:08:04.560 --> 1:08:09.720 from Roux shooting in West Australia, I'm assuming kangaroo watching 1:08:09.760 --> 1:08:12.240 deer shot through the vitals has always been a curious point, 1:08:12.360 --> 1:08:17.400 with the head shot never never ever taken. What do 1:08:17.400 --> 1:08:21.760 you think head shots. I think the question starts is 1:08:21.920 --> 1:08:28.640 our head shots are they actually more ethical? Well, a 1:08:28.680 --> 1:08:31.800 true head shot is probably the most ethical thing there is, 1:08:31.880 --> 1:08:35.720 But a nose shot, or a jaw shot or an 1:08:35.720 --> 1:08:40.120 ear shot it probably if if you ask, the deer 1:08:40.200 --> 1:08:42.439 would be or the elk or whatever, would probably be 1:08:42.520 --> 1:08:47.479 the least ethical thing. Uh yeah, and I'm I'm assuming 1:08:47.520 --> 1:08:50.640 we're all talking firearms of course, but um yeah, I 1:08:50.640 --> 1:08:53.400 mean it's it's a room for air situation. Yeah, it's 1:08:53.400 --> 1:08:57.160 a much smaller target, is what it comes down to you. Um, 1:08:57.200 --> 1:09:04.599 our buddy Parker Hall who works for APHIST Wildlife Services, Um, 1:09:04.680 --> 1:09:07.360 those guys all shoot when they're out doing like big 1:09:07.360 --> 1:09:10.400 deer calls. It's always head shots. It's actually always the 1:09:10.439 --> 1:09:13.080 back of the head because you do have a bigger 1:09:13.080 --> 1:09:15.479 target there than if you take a profile shot on 1:09:15.520 --> 1:09:18.879 the head. Um. But again, I mean those guys are 1:09:19.520 --> 1:09:24.040 pretty much a trained sniper, right And uh, I think 1:09:24.080 --> 1:09:26.040 for most of us just out in the field, it's 1:09:26.080 --> 1:09:30.240 like an elk at two or fifty yards. Man, it's 1:09:30.320 --> 1:09:34.000 like I'm definitely gonna choose the big trash can lid 1:09:34.080 --> 1:09:41.720 vital zone, the big more stationary target that doesn't know yeah, exactly. Um, Yeah, 1:09:41.760 --> 1:09:44.600 you have ever hunt moves with any of the Athabaskans 1:09:44.680 --> 1:09:49.479 in Northern Alaska in Canada, m they had their head shooters. Yeah, 1:09:49.720 --> 1:09:52.960 they hunt moves with two forty three's and stuff that 1:09:53.080 --> 1:09:55.600 we would uh, you know, most of us would be 1:09:55.600 --> 1:09:57.240 like what are you doing with two forty three or 1:09:57.520 --> 1:10:00.800 seven m M O eight or whatever? Pretty much all 1:10:00.840 --> 1:10:05.920 head shots. They got a lot of moose meat to 1:10:05.960 --> 1:10:08.479 show for it. Yeah, and well, and again with that 1:10:08.560 --> 1:10:13.439 animal doesn't have quite the flight instinct of deer and elk, right, 1:10:13.479 --> 1:10:17.679 you're probably getting a lot closer more often bigger head. 1:10:18.600 --> 1:10:22.720 Um doesn't. Moose doesn't move around too much a lot 1:10:22.840 --> 1:10:26.160 kind of stands there and can browse the same you know, 1:10:26.400 --> 1:10:31.280 patch of willows for hours sometimes. Yeah, well, it's just 1:10:31.360 --> 1:10:33.400 the end. It's the animal too. We shoot turkeys in 1:10:33.400 --> 1:10:35.960 the face all the time. That's kind of the that's 1:10:36.040 --> 1:10:38.080 kind of the point there. I've always and I argue 1:10:38.520 --> 1:10:40.880 I feel like when I'm turkey hunting this year, and 1:10:40.880 --> 1:10:43.320 that like a couple of years ago I experienced like, 1:10:43.520 --> 1:10:47.120 you know, I really wanted archery hunt for turkeys, and 1:10:47.240 --> 1:10:49.519 I was in at the camp of all archery hunters 1:10:49.520 --> 1:10:53.280 for birds, and the wound rate was like one to one. 1:10:54.000 --> 1:10:57.920 Would one kill one? And I'm thinking we could have 1:10:57.960 --> 1:11:00.760 had shotguns here and everyone we wounded would have been 1:11:00.800 --> 1:11:04.120 stone dead and there wouldn't be a giant rage size 1:11:04.160 --> 1:11:09.400 hole in its breast. Me. Yeah, I'm not archery hunted turkeys. 1:11:09.439 --> 1:11:12.599 If I had that result to be pretty quick for 1:11:12.640 --> 1:11:14.840 me to I'm done. I'm done as of now, like 1:11:14.920 --> 1:11:17.400 I'm just done, you know, I'm done. But and there's 1:11:17.400 --> 1:11:20.680 other things, like, you know, people think baiting bears is unethical, 1:11:20.840 --> 1:11:24.559 but when it comes to shooting them, it's a whole 1:11:24.600 --> 1:11:26.360 lot easier if they're sitting in front of a barrel 1:11:27.000 --> 1:11:32.320 and selecting for bores rather than Souther's. Yeah, that I'd 1:11:32.320 --> 1:11:35.559 say bear baiting is probably one where this preference versus 1:11:35.640 --> 1:11:40.360 ethics things is so easy to distill it as just 1:11:40.560 --> 1:11:47.800 about always that's a preference, not in ethics in the least. Uh. 1:11:47.880 --> 1:11:51.040 And I see how many people get themselves wrapped around 1:11:51.120 --> 1:11:54.640 the act on that issue. And so when you go 1:11:54.720 --> 1:11:59.360 there and then people say, well, what about baiting for deer? Yeah, 1:11:59.600 --> 1:12:02.120 quite to say, I don't care if people bait for deer, 1:12:02.160 --> 1:12:04.040 if that's how they do it, and what they want 1:12:04.040 --> 1:12:07.400 to do. It's not for me. Uh. I do worry about, 1:12:07.720 --> 1:12:12.040 you know, the disease bread things that relate to unnatural 1:12:12.080 --> 1:12:15.280 feeding of deer. But as far as a decision of 1:12:15.320 --> 1:12:18.280 how you're gonna take that deer, you know, I don't 1:12:18.280 --> 1:12:22.519 care if you bait him. My own care if you whatever. Yeah, well, yeah, 1:12:22.520 --> 1:12:24.880 it's personal preference. And you said that like the bare 1:12:24.920 --> 1:12:27.000 baiting of the deer baiting is is the thing where 1:12:27.040 --> 1:12:30.000 you're like, oh, fair chase, that doesn't count. And I'm like, 1:12:30.040 --> 1:12:32.280 if it's if we're just erasing that for a minute 1:12:32.280 --> 1:12:35.080 and saying, what's what's fair to the death of the animal? 1:12:35.520 --> 1:12:39.760 It's coming in close, munching on some corn being stationary. 1:12:40.320 --> 1:12:43.840 I'm sitting there stationary. It's I have a rifle. I'm 1:12:43.880 --> 1:12:46.240 now shooting it in a in a better scenario than 1:12:46.280 --> 1:12:48.800 if it was walking across the cornfield and I'm the 1:12:48.800 --> 1:12:51.599 other side of the cornfield. Like, that's a more ethical 1:12:51.640 --> 1:12:53.880 way to kill it. Maybe not a fair chase way 1:12:53.880 --> 1:12:56.360 to hunt it, right, So what are we out there 1:12:56.400 --> 1:12:59.519 really to do? Play at this? And there's another one 1:12:59.520 --> 1:13:00.840 I was just reading on here that I was like, man, 1:13:00.840 --> 1:13:02.640 this is a perfect one. And this came in a 1:13:02.640 --> 1:13:05.280 lot just around I think, knowing that you were coming 1:13:05.280 --> 1:13:08.519 on Randy Debt. Guys are like I, I, you know, 1:13:08.560 --> 1:13:11.080 I go on an outfitted hunt, and I do a 1:13:11.120 --> 1:13:13.840 lot of public land hunting, and I feel guilty about 1:13:13.880 --> 1:13:17.320 these outfitted hunts, Like I feel like it's not fair, Chase, 1:13:17.360 --> 1:13:18.840 I feel like I didn't do any of the work. 1:13:18.960 --> 1:13:22.800 I feel so guilty about letting an outfitter do a 1:13:22.880 --> 1:13:25.280 lot of the heavy lifting for me that I'm never 1:13:25.280 --> 1:13:27.679 gonna do it again. What's your thoughts around these ethics? 1:13:27.720 --> 1:13:30.600 And like that's a preference, that that's completely it's not 1:13:30.640 --> 1:13:33.000 even close, it's completely preference. And this came in a 1:13:33.000 --> 1:13:36.800 lot around like people, I think because we've been we've 1:13:36.840 --> 1:13:40.559 reinforced this public landowner, We've reinforced like this is the 1:13:40.560 --> 1:13:42.639 trend and this is the cool thing to do. People 1:13:42.680 --> 1:13:47.040 are feeling guilty about their way of doing it or 1:13:47.200 --> 1:13:49.600 specifically in this case, an outfited trip. I don't know 1:13:49.640 --> 1:13:52.160 who's saying what man to make that people start to 1:13:52.160 --> 1:13:55.679 feel like that because I feel like it's sorry it happens, 1:13:55.720 --> 1:13:58.240 but if it happens by us, mosis though man, Like 1:13:58.800 --> 1:14:03.519 I I am surprised how many because I started our 1:14:03.600 --> 1:14:08.200 platforms in two thousand and eight, and the y is 1:14:08.240 --> 1:14:11.320 the same today. It's to promote self guided public land 1:14:11.400 --> 1:14:14.920 hunting and create advocates for that cost. It's never changed. 1:14:16.040 --> 1:14:20.000 It had nothing to do with anti public or anti 1:14:20.000 --> 1:14:23.599 private land hunting or anti outfitting hunting. It's more it's 1:14:23.640 --> 1:14:25.920 more like, hey, by the way, you can also do 1:14:26.080 --> 1:14:29.679 this out here, and it's not that hard. There's great 1:14:29.720 --> 1:14:33.759 opportunities out here. You're paying into it anyway as well. 1:14:33.840 --> 1:14:38.400 So to that person's question, I struggle to even see 1:14:38.439 --> 1:14:42.400 that as a dilemma for somebody. I've been on three 1:14:42.400 --> 1:14:47.680 guided hunts. I had a blast. Were they anymore gratifying 1:14:47.840 --> 1:14:53.240 or less gratifying when it came to the end result? Well, 1:14:53.280 --> 1:14:55.160 on one of them, I didn't even fill a tag 1:14:56.080 --> 1:14:59.439 Arizona strip mealder back in two thousand seven, before I 1:14:59.479 --> 1:15:03.360 started our platforms. I got so much satisfaction out of 1:15:03.360 --> 1:15:07.960 that hunt that outfitter busted his ass, and so did I. 1:15:08.040 --> 1:15:09.720 And he told me, he said, I've never had a 1:15:09.760 --> 1:15:12.519 client that hunted all ten days of this season, but 1:15:12.600 --> 1:15:14.679 if you want to, that's what we're gonna do. And 1:15:14.840 --> 1:15:19.040 we did. Is one of the funnest hunts. Just he's 1:15:19.040 --> 1:15:21.920 a great guy. Yeah, we're out on public land, the 1:15:21.920 --> 1:15:25.400 Arizona Strip here, it's not an exclusive place where you 1:15:25.439 --> 1:15:30.479 include other people. If people are that worried about oh 1:15:30.560 --> 1:15:33.360 I didn't get out of it, you know someone else 1:15:33.400 --> 1:15:35.920 did all the work, Well, that's a different issue. I 1:15:35.920 --> 1:15:38.880 don't think that's an ethics issue. That's just what do 1:15:39.000 --> 1:15:42.439 I want out of my experience issue? And it's a 1:15:42.479 --> 1:15:45.240 preference thing. Like some people are very fine going to 1:15:45.320 --> 1:15:48.439 a trade show, meeting an outfitter, flying across the country 1:15:48.520 --> 1:15:50.639 hunting with them, getting an animal, bring them me back. 1:15:50.760 --> 1:15:53.360 That is a fantastic way to experience hunting. Yeah, And 1:15:53.400 --> 1:15:56.760 it's just different because the beauty of going on an 1:15:56.800 --> 1:15:59.200 outfitted hunt man is that you're probably gonna get to 1:15:59.280 --> 1:16:02.519 hunt with somebody that is a real expert in hunting 1:16:02.520 --> 1:16:05.639 that animal, and like the knowledge you're gonna gain there, 1:16:06.040 --> 1:16:08.200 you want have to go and hunt the same amount 1:16:08.320 --> 1:16:11.880 by yourself for five to ten years, or you could 1:16:11.920 --> 1:16:14.240 just be with that one person for a week and 1:16:14.280 --> 1:16:17.639 then gain all sorts of knowledge you know about that 1:16:17.680 --> 1:16:20.840 species and about that hunt and uh, yeah, come home 1:16:20.880 --> 1:16:24.160 with some stuff to eat. We've talked about that before 1:16:24.160 --> 1:16:25.840 on this podcast, and I put it that. I put 1:16:25.840 --> 1:16:29.120 it this way, like I want to hunt. I just 1:16:29.160 --> 1:16:32.920 want to hunt private land, public land, outfit, a non 1:16:32.960 --> 1:16:36.759 outfitted friends, family, Like I feel like it's all great. 1:16:37.080 --> 1:16:39.680 I will develop and have developed personal preferences around what 1:16:39.800 --> 1:16:42.599 I feel like it's the best version of it. But 1:16:42.680 --> 1:16:45.120 that should not change anybody else's version of it. No, 1:16:45.640 --> 1:16:48.720 And if someone wants to judge a person because of 1:16:49.240 --> 1:16:53.400 either there how they grew up hunting, the fact that 1:16:53.520 --> 1:16:55.960 just geographically maybe they're in a place where there's not 1:16:56.040 --> 1:17:00.439 lots of public land, or they enjoy hunting species, were 1:17:00.479 --> 1:17:03.040 they by law you have to use an outfit or 1:17:03.040 --> 1:17:06.960 whatever it is. Get over that quick. Judging people based 1:17:07.000 --> 1:17:10.040 on the I I think that kind of stuff is 1:17:10.120 --> 1:17:14.280 really damaging for hunting. You know, when I started our platforms, 1:17:14.800 --> 1:17:17.360 I was caught really off guard when a lot of 1:17:17.360 --> 1:17:20.639 people in the outfitting industry thought I was going after him. Yeah, 1:17:20.840 --> 1:17:23.240 it was not that at all. I've never I refer 1:17:23.320 --> 1:17:26.160 so many people to outfitters who contact me and say, hey, 1:17:26.200 --> 1:17:29.680 I love that outcome, but I live in Maryland and 1:17:29.920 --> 1:17:32.599 I don't have the time or resources, and I send 1:17:32.640 --> 1:17:35.240 them to I have all kinds outfitters I send people to. 1:17:35.880 --> 1:17:40.320 So I found it curious that people thought that somehow 1:17:40.400 --> 1:17:44.280 by promoting one type of hunting to make the an 1:17:44.320 --> 1:17:46.960 awareness that you can go do that. And it was 1:17:47.000 --> 1:17:51.400 a response. It was my response to seeing people say, oh, 1:17:51.439 --> 1:17:54.559 I'll never be able to do that. Oh I can't 1:17:54.600 --> 1:17:57.479 afford that. Are you just promoting an inclusive version of hunting? 1:17:57.760 --> 1:17:59.800 That's what you're doing. It's not That doesn't mean that 1:18:00.040 --> 1:18:04.520 something that's exclusive is inherently bad, man. It's so. Yeah, 1:18:04.560 --> 1:18:07.439 if a lot of people are thinking that or feeling that, 1:18:07.600 --> 1:18:11.439 I would encourage them to, uh, just go and hunt 1:18:11.880 --> 1:18:14.519 and don't don't worry about that. And it's certainly not 1:18:14.560 --> 1:18:16.320 an ethical question. But I would say I didn't get 1:18:16.320 --> 1:18:19.200 that quite a lot in these in these readings. Um, 1:18:19.240 --> 1:18:23.400 here's one that that's connected to that. Corey uh Skassic says, 1:18:23.439 --> 1:18:25.839 I went on my first elk in this past October. 1:18:26.080 --> 1:18:28.200 It was through an outfitter and a drop camp on 1:18:28.360 --> 1:18:31.720 public land. Is it unethical of me to hunt the 1:18:31.760 --> 1:18:35.320 same trailhead next year using the information I've gained. I 1:18:35.360 --> 1:18:38.559 wouldn't be back. I wouldn't go back to exactly where 1:18:38.600 --> 1:18:41.240 we went, but I stick to the same area, wondering 1:18:41.280 --> 1:18:44.080 what your thoughts are. I'm gonna leave that one to 1:18:44.160 --> 1:18:51.280 be honest, because he's done a lot of helping people. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:18:51.360 --> 1:18:56.519 we'd have that happen often. Um oh yeah, where you 1:18:57.160 --> 1:18:59.400 A couple of years later you glass of somebody run 1:18:59.520 --> 1:19:02.439 into money trail and you're like, oh, when I showed 1:19:02.479 --> 1:19:08.679 you this, are we hunting together around here? Um? So 1:19:08.960 --> 1:19:13.439 is it ethically wrong to do that? I think this 1:19:13.479 --> 1:19:16.759 falls into the ethical I think this is an ethics question, 1:19:17.160 --> 1:19:24.639 like what it's it's a intellectual property ethics question, I think, 1:19:25.479 --> 1:19:27.800 and there's a lot of these in hunting. So because 1:19:27.800 --> 1:19:34.960 it seems like you're cheating a little bit, I guess 1:19:35.000 --> 1:19:37.720 for for me, the answered no, I would never do that, 1:19:38.080 --> 1:19:42.920 But I get that some people. Hey, that's part of 1:19:42.960 --> 1:19:45.479 what I thought I was paying for when I came 1:19:45.560 --> 1:19:47.920 hunting with you. I wanted to learn a bunch of stuff. 1:19:47.960 --> 1:19:50.759 I want to learn how to hunt elk or call elk, 1:19:50.880 --> 1:19:53.320 or how to what you need, what kind of camp 1:19:53.360 --> 1:19:57.000 you set up? And you know that if you don't 1:19:57.040 --> 1:19:59.360 like that, then you should have charged me more. Yeah, 1:19:59.400 --> 1:20:01.880 I mean with this with this fella here, and I 1:20:01.920 --> 1:20:04.040 would say I would like, Corey, listen, if you got 1:20:04.120 --> 1:20:09.120 to ask the question, you're a you know the answer, broly. 1:20:09.400 --> 1:20:11.960 If you're like, should I do this, that's probably let's 1:20:11.960 --> 1:20:17.160 probably back it off a little back from where we're 1:20:17.160 --> 1:20:20.599 out because that means so he's and he's dancing around 1:20:20.640 --> 1:20:22.439 it here and somebody's like, I wouldn't be all the 1:20:22.439 --> 1:20:26.600 way back in where we were, Like yeah, yeah, but 1:20:26.320 --> 1:20:29.320 but you're still using what you learned from that that 1:20:29.400 --> 1:20:32.840 person to kind of compete with that person, you know. Yeah, 1:20:33.000 --> 1:20:35.080 And there's really just like on a on an elk 1:20:35.160 --> 1:20:37.559 hunt out west these days, as good as the hunting 1:20:37.680 --> 1:20:40.120 is in so many of these states, you just don't 1:20:40.120 --> 1:20:42.679 need to do that and don't even have to cross. 1:20:43.280 --> 1:20:45.000 But yeah, use that to use what you learned for 1:20:45.040 --> 1:20:47.040 that outfit, or to go maybe in the same state, 1:20:47.120 --> 1:20:50.280 maybe the same unit, but just not the same trailhead man, Like, 1:20:50.400 --> 1:20:53.439 just there's other places to go. I would say I 1:20:53.479 --> 1:20:55.920 think that because I mean, sure, like you'll be out 1:20:55.960 --> 1:20:58.880 there and it'll be kind of non at you a 1:20:58.920 --> 1:21:00.920 little bit, but when you're walking down the trail and 1:21:00.920 --> 1:21:03.080 you run into that guy, to that aufhitic guy, you're 1:21:03.120 --> 1:21:08.160 gonna feel like a real dick, you know, like, sorry, 1:21:08.560 --> 1:21:11.280 so you had that happen a bunch of times? Yeah? Not. 1:21:11.479 --> 1:21:13.599 I mean it was always like something I gut it. 1:21:13.640 --> 1:21:15.080 But you know know the guy would come in and 1:21:15.080 --> 1:21:17.439 be like, hey, I guess who I ran into, you know, 1:21:17.520 --> 1:21:21.720 over on the MASA. Wow for me. Again, I don't 1:21:21.720 --> 1:21:24.240 think it's ethic hoole, but I agree if you've been 1:21:24.320 --> 1:21:27.000 if you got to ask yourself that question, you probably 1:21:27.040 --> 1:21:29.320 know that. Yeah. That's like as a father. Now I'm like, listen, 1:21:29.320 --> 1:21:32.280 if you gotta, can I have that? But I mean, 1:21:33.520 --> 1:21:38.960 you know, you know, I don't even know this one. 1:21:39.120 --> 1:21:40.680 I'd be interested to hear you guys thought on this. 1:21:40.720 --> 1:21:42.599 And I read this, I first thought at that it's 1:21:42.600 --> 1:21:44.360 not worth it, but then I read it again, I'm 1:21:44.400 --> 1:21:48.160 like that, Um, this guy's names Tyler Ham, he said. 1:21:48.200 --> 1:21:51.040 My buddy and I are Yukon resident hunters, and we 1:21:51.160 --> 1:21:54.559 hunt year round every weekend. We're pretty spoiled. We both 1:21:54.600 --> 1:21:58.400 agree hunting Grid, we both agreed we hunt grizzlies because 1:21:58.439 --> 1:22:02.200 we're scared of them. After being charged too many times 1:22:02.560 --> 1:22:04.960 and having camps be destroyed by them, we are just 1:22:05.040 --> 1:22:08.479 sick of them. What are your thoughts on that this 1:22:08.560 --> 1:22:10.960 is from a person that has tried to co exist 1:22:10.960 --> 1:22:15.400 with grizzlies on a weekly basis and had troubles. Mhm. 1:22:16.120 --> 1:22:19.679 It's interesting because I think, yeah, I mean here here, 1:22:19.720 --> 1:22:21.839 I think this goes back to like the British Columbia 1:22:21.920 --> 1:22:24.240 grizzly situation and maybe even some of our gers, the 1:22:24.320 --> 1:22:28.559 situations in the Greater Yellowstone. This is somebody who's saying, 1:22:28.560 --> 1:22:31.840 I'm around these things every day and I'm killing them 1:22:31.880 --> 1:22:34.360 because I don't want him to eat me. M hm 1:22:36.640 --> 1:22:39.519 uh oh. In the Yukon, they you know, they have 1:22:39.920 --> 1:22:45.920 different opportunities slash situations than than what we have. I 1:22:45.920 --> 1:22:49.200 I've had my share Gridley bear encounters here in Montana. 1:22:50.720 --> 1:22:54.160 If we had no limits or seasons on them, would 1:22:54.160 --> 1:22:56.880 I feel comfortable going and shooting them because I'm afraid 1:22:56.880 --> 1:23:03.599 of them? No? Would I shoot at them because they're 1:23:03.720 --> 1:23:08.840 messing around in my camp? Maybe? I know it's hard 1:23:08.840 --> 1:23:12.439 for me to answer that one because of I'm not 1:23:12.600 --> 1:23:16.720 in that situation. But yeah, I read that too, and 1:23:16.720 --> 1:23:19.360 I'm like, I'm not sure where this falls, but it's interesting. 1:23:19.840 --> 1:23:22.120 It certainly is interesting because I'm never, hopefully never gonna 1:23:22.120 --> 1:23:24.680 be in that situation. But um, I don't know if 1:23:24.680 --> 1:23:26.400 i'd blame him, I don't. I wouldn't call what you're 1:23:26.400 --> 1:23:30.840 doing hunting called self defense. But I think he's saying 1:23:30.840 --> 1:23:33.760 that he's haunting them. He's not saying he shoot them 1:23:33.800 --> 1:23:36.160 just when there's a charge or they're in their camp. 1:23:36.960 --> 1:23:41.559 He's developed this like rage where its getting rid of 1:23:41.600 --> 1:23:44.200 some bears, and maybe that's gonna make life easier on them. 1:23:44.240 --> 1:23:47.200 But you've always but you've I've I've met many hunters, 1:23:47.560 --> 1:23:50.200 I would say a lot of hunters that have this 1:23:50.280 --> 1:23:53.960 like personal disdain for a certain animal. Boy, do I 1:23:54.000 --> 1:23:59.400 hate X? If I see one trouble like, okay, well 1:24:00.560 --> 1:24:04.200 that seems odd. So for this person's question, I guess 1:24:04.240 --> 1:24:07.240 take it to its eventual conclusion. So you're gonna go 1:24:07.360 --> 1:24:10.200 remove all grizzly bears from the Yukon landscape just to 1:24:10.240 --> 1:24:14.400 make it safe for you and others. Yeah, that's I mean, 1:24:14.920 --> 1:24:18.439 that's where it eventually goes to. If if that is 1:24:18.600 --> 1:24:24.760 the the motive for yeah, I'd say at the turn 1:24:24.800 --> 1:24:27.840 of the century, we were killing animals that that in 1:24:28.040 --> 1:24:32.680 mass for for reasons similar to this, but also just 1:24:32.720 --> 1:24:35.880 for market reasons, and we we shut that off, like 1:24:36.000 --> 1:24:39.439 that's what our value system and our model conservation kind 1:24:39.439 --> 1:24:41.680 of like, okay, we got to do better than that. 1:24:42.080 --> 1:24:46.720 I mean, grizzly bears are serious interruption to places I 1:24:46.880 --> 1:24:48.760 hunt and what you have to do to keep a 1:24:48.840 --> 1:24:53.120 clean camp, what you have to do. I hunt differently 1:24:53.120 --> 1:24:55.519 when I'm in grizzly country. This year we filmed two 1:24:55.560 --> 1:24:59.160 hunts here in Montana that we were in grizzly bears 1:24:59.200 --> 1:25:03.040 like crazy. I didn't see them but their tracks, And 1:25:03.520 --> 1:25:05.519 people said, well, I thought you always get to your 1:25:05.560 --> 1:25:09.559 glassing spot before the sun comes up. Yeah. I do 1:25:09.840 --> 1:25:13.960 accept in these places of grizzly country because one time 1:25:14.120 --> 1:25:17.360 I walked right up on a grizzly bear in the dark. 1:25:18.120 --> 1:25:21.759 It was no one really hard looking down. What's that track? 1:25:21.840 --> 1:25:24.960 Well then when it got daylight, I realized what that 1:25:25.000 --> 1:25:28.040 track was because about three yards up the hill is 1:25:28.080 --> 1:25:31.800 the grizzly bear walking in front of me and whoa. 1:25:32.000 --> 1:25:34.800 So does it change how I haunt and how I 1:25:34.880 --> 1:25:38.240 have to run my camp and everything else? Yeah? It does. 1:25:38.640 --> 1:25:42.280 Does it create some risk? Yeah? And I always always 1:25:42.360 --> 1:25:45.719 preface this statement, but someday when I'm a grizzly bear turd, 1:25:46.000 --> 1:25:49.519 everyone's gonna say, see, that's as you get. My dad said, 1:25:49.560 --> 1:25:54.200 I never be ship well. But for me, I'm willing 1:25:54.240 --> 1:25:57.080 to accept those risks on the landscape to know that 1:25:57.120 --> 1:26:01.840 grizzly bears are there. Yeah, just my personal I could 1:26:01.840 --> 1:26:04.240 see being in the Yukon and having a little slightly skewed, 1:26:05.320 --> 1:26:07.800 but I still don't. It's not hunting with that. That's 1:26:07.800 --> 1:26:10.800 not hunting. It's not. It's a different when you have 1:26:10.920 --> 1:26:14.360 like a vendetta against animal, it's not. That's not it. Man. 1:26:15.280 --> 1:26:19.280 The motivation becomes skewed, then you're in trouble. Um. You 1:26:19.400 --> 1:26:22.479 got to address the the waterfowl one, because this is 1:26:22.520 --> 1:26:25.680 another one that came in a ton. This is just 1:26:25.720 --> 1:26:28.160 one from Josh Cook. He says, I was recently hunting 1:26:28.160 --> 1:26:31.680 geese with friends and ran into this ethics question. The 1:26:31.720 --> 1:26:34.559 limit here in Colorado was five geeks per day per hunter. 1:26:35.280 --> 1:26:36.880 We each had about three or four birds on the 1:26:36.880 --> 1:26:40.240 ground when a huge flock worked in our spread. After 1:26:40.280 --> 1:26:42.559 all the shooting excitement, we realized we had one. We 1:26:42.600 --> 1:26:45.560 had shot one bird over our limit. How do you 1:26:45.600 --> 1:26:48.639 handle this situation? This also came into the form like 1:26:49.680 --> 1:26:51.360 what how do I make that decision? I've got I 1:26:51.360 --> 1:26:54.000 can shoot two geese and there's seventeen of them, you know, 1:26:54.200 --> 1:26:57.719 in our feet up in our decoys, and there's four shooters. 1:26:57.760 --> 1:27:00.280 What do we do? I think came in a lot 1:27:00.320 --> 1:27:02.840 of ways. Um. I know we're not all seen as 1:27:02.840 --> 1:27:05.240 expert water fowlers, but you know this stuff you keep 1:27:05.280 --> 1:27:08.840 this to run into. Yeah, I think it's pretty simple. 1:27:08.880 --> 1:27:11.280 You just stick to the ball and if you want over, 1:27:11.400 --> 1:27:14.360 then you got to call a game warden and tell them. Right. Yeah, 1:27:14.360 --> 1:27:16.960 I think in that situation, if you did something that 1:27:17.000 --> 1:27:21.679 happens you admit to, most game boardings will go back 1:27:21.760 --> 1:27:25.200 further and say, all right, if if you know you're 1:27:25.200 --> 1:27:29.679 that close to your limit, all right, are you gonna 1:27:29.680 --> 1:27:33.240 have a discussion among your group that hey, we're just 1:27:33.280 --> 1:27:38.120 gonna mp our our shotguns into this flock and one 1:27:38.200 --> 1:27:42.720 guy yeah, and we'll worry about it later. Or are 1:27:42.760 --> 1:27:45.120 we going to make sure that we don't get in 1:27:45.160 --> 1:27:47.800 this situation and say, all right, we've got three left 1:27:47.840 --> 1:27:50.720 in our limit, only one or two guys are going 1:27:50.760 --> 1:27:53.840 to shoot when the flocks come in. And yeah, when 1:27:53.840 --> 1:27:56.640 you're and when you're shooting multi species, it gets even tougher, like, 1:27:56.760 --> 1:27:58.479 oh I can shoot one more of these one more 1:27:58.479 --> 1:28:01.160 of these three come in and you shoot with a shotgun, 1:28:01.840 --> 1:28:05.719 it's spray, it's some level. So this thing drops like, oh, 1:28:06.000 --> 1:28:08.000 that's not right. And I think the other thing you 1:28:08.000 --> 1:28:11.080 can do is is reported, self report, and always self report. 1:28:11.200 --> 1:28:15.479 And I'm with you, honest. Usually the most of the wardens, 1:28:15.560 --> 1:28:17.960 I know, if you explain the situation, they'll say, Hey, 1:28:18.000 --> 1:28:20.960 I'm gonna take your goose from you. But it's not 1:28:21.000 --> 1:28:22.920 going to be the end of the world. Yeah. And 1:28:23.120 --> 1:28:24.640 but if you're out there doing it and you get 1:28:24.680 --> 1:28:27.000 a reputation and somebody tells the game order, hey, I 1:28:27.120 --> 1:28:28.960 was hunting across the field from these guys and they 1:28:29.000 --> 1:28:32.120 are their party hunting and they're shooting too many and 1:28:32.160 --> 1:28:34.800 he comes over and catches you. Yeah, good luck with that. 1:28:35.160 --> 1:28:38.080 Speaking of party hunting, party hunting is legal where I 1:28:38.080 --> 1:28:42.400 grew up in Minnesota. Really yeah, yeah, Wisconsin to where 1:28:42.400 --> 1:28:45.360 we hunted. Yeah, I think of it would have been. 1:28:46.160 --> 1:28:49.360 I never thought of when I was coming up. I mean, 1:28:50.479 --> 1:28:52.679 this probably is not the right thing to say, but 1:28:52.920 --> 1:28:56.840 my dad, but that's growing up hunting. Like, there's six 1:28:56.840 --> 1:28:59.360 of us here. If six deer come out, I expect 1:28:59.360 --> 1:29:03.240 you're gonna dump every one of them. That was the expectation. 1:29:03.880 --> 1:29:08.080 And if you go to that part of the Midwest, 1:29:08.120 --> 1:29:11.559 there's not even a second thought given to party hunting. 1:29:11.600 --> 1:29:15.600 It's just the accepted norm. You say that out here 1:29:15.640 --> 1:29:18.439 in the West, where no state I know of allows 1:29:18.479 --> 1:29:22.840 party hunting, Oh my goodness, you better get ready to 1:29:23.000 --> 1:29:25.679 have yourself lit up. I've been in states where guys 1:29:25.760 --> 1:29:29.439 like archery hunters are damned because they're selective and the 1:29:29.520 --> 1:29:31.559 in the rifle season, they're doing deer drives and stuff, 1:29:31.600 --> 1:29:33.439 and they're just like these assholes over here with their 1:29:33.720 --> 1:29:35.920 properties where they only shoot a couple of deer a year. 1:29:36.360 --> 1:29:39.280 They're out there, they're creating sanctuaries where our deer. You know, 1:29:39.360 --> 1:29:41.160 this deer won't come over on us because we chase 1:29:41.200 --> 1:29:44.439 them around to shoot them. And that's that's a real like, 1:29:44.520 --> 1:29:46.600 that's a real pushing pool. And some of these, like 1:29:46.720 --> 1:29:49.240 rural communities, I've seen it a lot of places, a 1:29:49.240 --> 1:29:52.559 lot of places. I guess one thing that bothers me 1:29:52.600 --> 1:29:55.280 and I may be expressed it too much in the 1:29:55.360 --> 1:29:59.559 last two weeks is how judgmental we as a hunting 1:29:59.560 --> 1:30:01.840 community do you have become. And I don't know if 1:30:01.880 --> 1:30:06.880 that's just based on when you when you're the minority. 1:30:07.040 --> 1:30:10.280 You always feel you're under the microscope, you feel you're 1:30:10.360 --> 1:30:13.040 under pressure, and so maybe you have a tendency to 1:30:15.439 --> 1:30:18.919 lash out quicker or for reasons that maybe you shouldn't. 1:30:18.960 --> 1:30:23.559 But I'll use an example. My son drew a great 1:30:23.720 --> 1:30:27.760 late season out tag in Wyoming a week before Thanksgiving. 1:30:27.800 --> 1:30:30.160 We go down there. The first day, we see eighty 1:30:30.200 --> 1:30:34.280 four bulls out on the winter range and he gets 1:30:34.320 --> 1:30:37.599 to hunt one week a year because he lives in Oregon, 1:30:37.640 --> 1:30:39.840 and he's just really busy at that point in his life, 1:30:39.880 --> 1:30:43.960 building his career. And these are and there there are 1:30:44.040 --> 1:30:47.639 some really really nice bulls, and he passed on every 1:30:47.640 --> 1:30:49.840 one of them. He made a half hearted attempt to 1:30:49.920 --> 1:30:52.920 stock one of them and it was a four yard shot, 1:30:52.920 --> 1:30:54.679 and he said, no, it's not the shot I want. 1:30:54.880 --> 1:30:59.040 I think it was just wasn't He just wasn't ready. 1:30:59.320 --> 1:31:02.519 The amount of people who have called him on our 1:31:02.560 --> 1:31:06.639 YouTube channel a spoiled rotten Prima Donna bloss silvers boom. 1:31:06.720 --> 1:31:09.920 But you know, I would have shot the first. And 1:31:10.439 --> 1:31:14.400 so then the next day he ends up shooting a bowl, 1:31:14.479 --> 1:31:19.880 a really nice bowl, and at the time he shoots it, 1:31:20.080 --> 1:31:23.519 we're sitting there and I'm like the two year old 1:31:23.520 --> 1:31:27.040 black lab man. I'm in my tails wagon, I'm hooting 1:31:27.040 --> 1:31:30.000 and yelling. And he's a very deliberate person and he 1:31:30.040 --> 1:31:35.120 takes this very very seriously, and when he shoots the bowl, uh, 1:31:35.240 --> 1:31:38.600 he always has this feeling of, oh my goodness, I 1:31:38.680 --> 1:31:41.400 just killed an animal. He's that's just who and how 1:31:41.479 --> 1:31:44.679 he is where I'm over there hugging him, and I'm 1:31:44.760 --> 1:31:47.800 so excited because of the you know, this is the 1:31:47.800 --> 1:31:52.960 culmination and it's a great triple. The way people judge 1:31:53.080 --> 1:31:56.280 the fact that he wasn't doing cartwheels in the handstands 1:31:56.520 --> 1:32:00.960 was very interesting and peculiar to me. And then the 1:32:01.000 --> 1:32:07.360 way that people call him a trophy hunter. Hey, yeah, yeah, 1:32:07.400 --> 1:32:09.479 and that's fine. I mean that's part of what we do, 1:32:09.560 --> 1:32:11.759 you know, you take it as part of the territory. 1:32:11.840 --> 1:32:14.960 But it gets me to the question of is it 1:32:15.080 --> 1:32:18.679 trophy hunting to say? And I hate the term meat 1:32:18.720 --> 1:32:21.720 hunter versus trophy To me, that's the dumbest thing we 1:32:21.800 --> 1:32:26.040 ever talked about. And when people, maybe I'm overly sensitive, 1:32:26.040 --> 1:32:29.519 when people try to split the hunting community based on 1:32:29.800 --> 1:32:33.280 some motive of trophy versus some motive of meat. I 1:32:33.320 --> 1:32:38.040 don't think there's a distinction there in most instances. Um. 1:32:38.160 --> 1:32:41.880 But it gets me to the point of a lot 1:32:41.920 --> 1:32:45.240 of these things that people bring up as ethics or 1:32:45.400 --> 1:32:49.800 ethical dilemmas is part of it. Just we as a 1:32:49.880 --> 1:32:54.240 community are becoming very judgmental from the from the from 1:32:54.240 --> 1:32:56.519 a distance of what we see or what we hear, 1:32:57.600 --> 1:33:02.639 and that's just a natural response to how we feel 1:33:03.000 --> 1:33:07.919 our pastime is under scrutiny or is it just inherent 1:33:08.000 --> 1:33:12.800 in human nature that we judge people, And now we 1:33:12.880 --> 1:33:16.000 have platforms by which we can express those judgments without 1:33:16.040 --> 1:33:19.719 any context. And I think any behavior someone does, any 1:33:19.720 --> 1:33:23.519 activity and hunting be prepared for that scrutiny if you 1:33:23.600 --> 1:33:28.800 are inefficial. Yeah. And I think we put ourselves there, 1:33:28.880 --> 1:33:30.160 you know, the three of us in this room and 1:33:30.200 --> 1:33:31.960 a lot of folks that we hang out with put 1:33:31.960 --> 1:33:35.519 ourselves out there too, you know. And then generally you're 1:33:35.560 --> 1:33:37.600 doing it, you know, and you are doing it for 1:33:37.720 --> 1:33:41.280 good reasons, like you want to express ideas, you want 1:33:41.320 --> 1:33:43.400 to have an exchange, you want you want to put 1:33:43.439 --> 1:33:46.120 yourself out there too, to express what you feel is 1:33:46.160 --> 1:33:49.840 important in trying to positively impact folks. I think that's 1:33:50.520 --> 1:33:52.439 im you know, I know a lot of folks that 1:33:52.439 --> 1:33:55.880 would be deemed as influencers in our space, and I 1:33:55.920 --> 1:33:57.920 can think of very few of them that I don't 1:33:57.920 --> 1:34:01.080 like as people. I just and I get it all 1:34:01.080 --> 1:34:03.519 the time. The ex person does it this way, and 1:34:03.560 --> 1:34:07.439 what a you know, what a douche or what I 1:34:07.479 --> 1:34:10.000 can't believe this person would do this this way. I'm like, 1:34:10.040 --> 1:34:14.680 I've met that person, hunted with them, and what the 1:34:14.840 --> 1:34:17.920 funk are you talking about? Like it may come across 1:34:18.000 --> 1:34:20.760 this way, but you're looking You're coming not from a 1:34:20.760 --> 1:34:24.400 place of like lifting that hunter up before he does anything, 1:34:24.520 --> 1:34:27.519 or or he or she does anything. You're you're looking 1:34:27.560 --> 1:34:30.519 to judge. And that's where I I've done that in 1:34:30.560 --> 1:34:32.720 the past, and I'm trying to erase that from my 1:34:33.720 --> 1:34:37.160 vocabulary and my actions, like because I think it's just 1:34:37.720 --> 1:34:40.000 the problem I have is where we start. Like if 1:34:40.040 --> 1:34:43.000 you start from you click on a your Instagram account 1:34:43.040 --> 1:34:44.719 or you click on your social media and you start 1:34:44.760 --> 1:34:49.880 from like looking for for things to judge, You're always 1:34:49.880 --> 1:34:52.360 going to find something one and you're always going to 1:34:52.400 --> 1:34:55.639 be like either angry or upset and what the hell 1:34:55.640 --> 1:34:58.519 are you doing it for? You know? And it sounds 1:34:58.560 --> 1:35:01.120 like you need to work on being a better human something. 1:35:01.800 --> 1:35:03.759 But I think it's it's I don't know if it's everywhere, 1:35:03.760 --> 1:35:06.000 but I think it's in politics to people get so tribal. 1:35:06.240 --> 1:35:09.599 But but I guess the point is all of these 1:35:09.680 --> 1:35:18.240 questions you got, are someone overlaying their perspective with however 1:35:18.520 --> 1:35:23.479 much or however little context and information on the actions 1:35:23.600 --> 1:35:28.960 usually of somebody else. Yes, and that it were more 1:35:29.040 --> 1:35:32.120 comfortable with the kind of the safe defense or the 1:35:32.200 --> 1:35:37.440 safe rationalis Oh, that's un ethical, and so ethics ethos 1:35:37.720 --> 1:35:44.040 becomes the spear to point and poke the other person with. Yeah, 1:35:44.120 --> 1:35:46.240 that's a great I mean, that's the greatest point of 1:35:46.320 --> 1:35:49.880 all of this is that, like you're not sitting down 1:35:49.880 --> 1:35:54.000 with yourself and asking yourself, am I ethical? Because that's 1:35:54.000 --> 1:35:56.160 a pretty easy one. We already addressed it around Like 1:35:56.200 --> 1:36:00.879 if you're asking a question, probably already know the answer 1:36:01.840 --> 1:36:04.519 because that's a like that's an intrinsic like, that's the 1:36:04.680 --> 1:36:07.639 intrinsic way to handle these these questions. I'm asking myself, 1:36:07.680 --> 1:36:10.160 do I feel good about this? Is it legal? Okay? 1:36:10.280 --> 1:36:12.120 That's first, and then do I feel good about it? 1:36:12.160 --> 1:36:14.800 Do I feel right about it? And that's what you 1:36:14.840 --> 1:36:18.679 should do. Rather than is it legal, it was everybody 1:36:18.720 --> 1:36:21.760 else doing it? Is everybody else? Because that then it 1:36:21.800 --> 1:36:24.760 becomes extrinsic, and you're starting to do things for the 1:36:24.760 --> 1:36:27.799 pleasure of others rather than for the satisfaction of yourself. 1:36:28.320 --> 1:36:32.000 And that's what that's what worries me a little bit 1:36:32.000 --> 1:36:35.200 about not not these questions. These questions are fine. People 1:36:35.240 --> 1:36:39.040 wonder and they like to hear it discussed, but um, 1:36:39.120 --> 1:36:41.960 and it may later help them have that intrinsic dialogue. 1:36:42.880 --> 1:36:45.679 But there's a lot of people that are acting on 1:36:45.800 --> 1:36:49.320 social media to to make others happy and to make 1:36:49.360 --> 1:36:53.080 it make what they do seem the right way. That's 1:36:53.120 --> 1:36:57.559 pretty easy to see once you look hard enough. I 1:36:57.600 --> 1:37:00.320 can't imagine that some of the critics to them as 1:37:00.360 --> 1:37:04.639 you guys get on your platforms. Also, yeah, there's gotta 1:37:04.720 --> 1:37:08.599 be times where it's you know, is it ever tiresome 1:37:08.640 --> 1:37:10.640 to yawning like you're you're close to it? Like, is 1:37:10.680 --> 1:37:13.280 there ever a point where I feel like mine's pretty healthy? 1:37:13.360 --> 1:37:15.840 I think yours is probably pretty healthy too. I mean, guys, 1:37:15.960 --> 1:37:19.040 I wouldn't say the criticisms are kind of far and 1:37:19.120 --> 1:37:23.240 few between. Really, Yeah, yeah, um, I mean they do 1:37:23.360 --> 1:37:26.280 come in if it's worthy. If it's a worthy criticism, 1:37:26.360 --> 1:37:29.519 we address it. But if it's someone that's just you know, 1:37:29.720 --> 1:37:33.920 blowing hot air man, then just like life's too short. Yeah, 1:37:34.040 --> 1:37:36.960 I got somebody to comment on my stuff. Get out 1:37:37.000 --> 1:37:41.680 of Montana. That's a fair criticism. Yeah, your bastard, go 1:37:41.760 --> 1:37:47.160 back to California. Stuff like that. You're like, oh, wow, okay, 1:37:47.160 --> 1:37:49.200 well you know what, he's probably been here three years, 1:37:49.240 --> 1:37:54.599 so he's Yeah, it's clearly bought in. Yeah, it's it's 1:37:55.200 --> 1:37:58.120 you know, we're humans. We're we're gonna have emotions and 1:37:58.160 --> 1:38:03.280 feelings based on what our life experiences are, and everyone's 1:38:03.280 --> 1:38:05.800 going to have a different way of expressing those. Some 1:38:06.320 --> 1:38:10.720 won't or someone'll do it very articulately, and some are 1:38:10.800 --> 1:38:14.479 just assholes. And there there are some people a very 1:38:14.520 --> 1:38:19.680 small percentage, and like you, honest, I'm thankful that of 1:38:19.760 --> 1:38:25.160 my audience is just there for the positive experience. But 1:38:25.200 --> 1:38:27.759 there are some people who wake up with the motto 1:38:27.840 --> 1:38:31.520 of I'm not happy till you're not happy. Yeah, and 1:38:31.520 --> 1:38:34.639 and then social media just tends to amplify whatever you are. Anyway, 1:38:34.760 --> 1:38:36.720 if you're a super positive person and like you wake 1:38:36.800 --> 1:38:39.080 up your life's great. I love my wife, I love 1:38:39.160 --> 1:38:41.280 my kids, I love my job. You're probably going on 1:38:41.320 --> 1:38:45.360 Facebook or Instagram going like great photo, dude. Like if 1:38:45.400 --> 1:38:48.240 you wake up you're like, oh my god, another day. 1:38:48.560 --> 1:38:50.479 Like I'd like to drag somebody down to my level 1:38:50.520 --> 1:38:53.559 so I feel a little bit better. Like that's true. 1:38:53.600 --> 1:38:55.200 But I think in the hunting industry, just because we 1:38:55.240 --> 1:38:56.960 all care about it so much, it's highly it is. 1:38:57.040 --> 1:39:00.200 It bothers him. Man when I see I haven't had it. 1:39:01.200 --> 1:39:03.880 I'm sure I will some day sometime, but I see 1:39:04.040 --> 1:39:07.120 my friends in the industry getting it and I and 1:39:07.200 --> 1:39:09.679 it makes me cringe because I think it it starts 1:39:09.720 --> 1:39:13.519 from a place of judgment, and boy, that's like somebody 1:39:13.560 --> 1:39:16.640 who's a mass of following or a mass to influence. 1:39:16.680 --> 1:39:19.920 They've done it for, you know, some reason, and normally 1:39:19.960 --> 1:39:23.800 it's pretty good reason. Um. However, it twists and turns 1:39:23.840 --> 1:39:27.760 in its story about Yeah, but I think all hunters 1:39:27.880 --> 1:39:30.840 um should just be willing to have the conversation, which 1:39:30.840 --> 1:39:33.280 I think is great because in your platform, Randy, and 1:39:33.280 --> 1:39:36.280 then media, your podcast and on this one, like, those 1:39:36.320 --> 1:39:40.200 conversations are had all the time. And well, if we 1:39:40.200 --> 1:39:45.000 aren't having those conversations ourselves, ah, one day we're gonna 1:39:45.000 --> 1:39:47.080 wake up and the rest of society has had that 1:39:47.160 --> 1:39:51.160 conversation for us, and and we aren't gonna like the 1:39:51.240 --> 1:39:54.479 conclusion they arrive at it. That that's my feeling. It's well, 1:39:54.600 --> 1:39:58.360 you look at British Columbia, look at the grizzly bear situation, right, 1:39:58.439 --> 1:40:02.559 you know, like there's arguments on both sides, but somebody 1:40:02.600 --> 1:40:05.200 didn't get get to Vancouver and say like, hey, we're 1:40:05.479 --> 1:40:09.000 working on this. They're working on it. Even in my 1:40:09.120 --> 1:40:13.719 personal and professional life, I've had criticisms along the way 1:40:13.760 --> 1:40:18.400 that we're really helpful to me and I think maybe 1:40:19.120 --> 1:40:22.679 a better business person maybe made me a better husband, 1:40:22.720 --> 1:40:25.640 made me a better father. Hopefully they may not have 1:40:25.680 --> 1:40:29.679 been what I wanted to hear at the time, but uh, 1:40:29.720 --> 1:40:32.120 and then I've also we've all had our share of 1:40:32.160 --> 1:40:37.400 criticisms where it's like, you know what, thanks, but you're clueless. 1:40:38.640 --> 1:40:42.840 You know, appreciate, appreciate that, but that's not how Yeah, 1:40:42.840 --> 1:40:47.360 you've my My statement that I've learned from my grandma 1:40:47.960 --> 1:40:50.680 is you've made mistaken me for someone who gives a 1:40:50.720 --> 1:40:55.479 shit about your opinion. I like your grandma right now, Well, 1:40:55.560 --> 1:40:59.120 my grandma had more one liners. I most of them 1:40:59.120 --> 1:41:02.840 would not be fair for a podcast, but um, let's 1:41:02.960 --> 1:41:05.240 end on this. I think this was probably a little 1:41:05.320 --> 1:41:08.839 lighter hearted, probably not even ethics, but we'll go there anyway. 1:41:09.200 --> 1:41:11.960 This guy named Mark Coleman. He says, when your wife 1:41:12.040 --> 1:41:14.920 spots a new piece of gear that you didn't really 1:41:14.960 --> 1:41:18.600 need but you did really want, and you bought that 1:41:18.600 --> 1:41:22.320 piece of gear in stealth mode, is it unethical to 1:41:22.479 --> 1:41:32.320 nonchalantly say, oh, I've had that for a while. It 1:41:32.439 --> 1:41:36.040 was someone who gived lots of marital advice, like Randy. 1:41:36.040 --> 1:41:38.839 When I read that, I'm like, oh, yeah, you honestly 1:41:38.960 --> 1:41:41.080 sat in on a few of my podcasts where I've 1:41:41.080 --> 1:41:45.120 given marital advice. Actually, Steve and I got interviewed by 1:41:45.120 --> 1:41:48.559 Pat Durkin for the n R, a magazine about marital 1:41:48.560 --> 1:41:51.000 about marital advice because he'd heard so much of it 1:41:51.120 --> 1:41:54.400 on our podcast. That one's a pretty easy one. I 1:41:54.680 --> 1:41:58.280 had never lied to my wife, but I got a 1:41:58.280 --> 1:42:00.519 lot of good advice. If you guys want of another 1:42:00.560 --> 1:42:03.720 podcast about we probably should just how to make it 1:42:03.840 --> 1:42:07.080 so that you're you and your spouse can reach your 1:42:07.120 --> 1:42:11.400 thirtieth wedding anniversary like mine will be hearing about seven 1:42:11.439 --> 1:42:15.080 weeks and get to hunt and fish as much as 1:42:15.120 --> 1:42:18.000 I do. Stop at your limited wallye. There you go. 1:42:18.240 --> 1:42:22.800 That help. Don't lie my My first, always, my first 1:42:22.840 --> 1:42:27.080 point of of advice is be more concerned about peace 1:42:27.120 --> 1:42:33.360 than justice. That's like the default, and lying usually results 1:42:33.439 --> 1:42:40.000 in neither justice or peace. More lying usually Yeah. Yeah. 1:42:40.040 --> 1:42:43.960 If you want to see the result of lying u 1:42:44.160 --> 1:42:47.040 and having to just cover another one, just watch the 1:42:47.040 --> 1:42:53.919 news every night. Yeah, he needs to be better at hiding. 1:42:54.640 --> 1:42:57.800 Does hiding new gear counts lying? No? No, if you 1:42:57.840 --> 1:42:59.800 don't ever just say you can't notnch long and be like, 1:42:59.840 --> 1:43:03.559 oh that I never I never got that. So I've 1:43:03.600 --> 1:43:08.200 always been the carrot the reward kind of person that. 1:43:08.800 --> 1:43:14.439 Uh yeah. So for my wife, she gets the calendar 1:43:14.680 --> 1:43:18.559 anytime I'm not hunting. So the other eight months out 1:43:18.600 --> 1:43:21.080 of the year, if my wife wants to go to 1:43:21.120 --> 1:43:23.240 the big city and do whatever, I'm gonna do it 1:43:23.280 --> 1:43:25.719 and smile like I'm having the time of my life. 1:43:26.920 --> 1:43:31.439 And when we built our new house, uh, she wanted 1:43:31.439 --> 1:43:33.880 new furnishings. And I looked at that and this is 1:43:33.920 --> 1:43:37.000 the typical hunter angler. I'm looking at that thing, you know, 1:43:37.120 --> 1:43:43.040 many rifles and optics and stuff. Yeah, and so we 1:43:43.160 --> 1:43:46.679 came to an agreement, and not everyone's probably gonna do this, 1:43:46.960 --> 1:43:51.280 is that we would take fifteen percent on the budget 1:43:51.280 --> 1:43:54.480 that the house cost and she'd get brand new furnishings 1:43:54.560 --> 1:43:57.439 and we just treated as part of the package. But 1:43:58.479 --> 1:44:02.000 I didn't wanna if there's a charge on the credit 1:44:02.040 --> 1:44:05.360 card for a new whatever, I don't you know, I 1:44:05.040 --> 1:44:09.400 I would expect the same accommodation. That's right, best deal 1:44:09.520 --> 1:44:15.400 I ever made. I just made a very similar It 1:44:15.439 --> 1:44:17.800 wasn't a deal in those numbers, but it was we're 1:44:17.840 --> 1:44:20.599 building a house, right, we had I had this dream. 1:44:20.760 --> 1:44:22.800 It's like, because my wife always says this ship like 1:44:23.200 --> 1:44:25.840 she'll say it's my dream table. I'm like, I don't 1:44:25.880 --> 1:44:28.680 know what's that mean? A dream you've been dreaming of 1:44:28.680 --> 1:44:31.719 a table? Probably say like, oh, it's a dream curtain. 1:44:32.080 --> 1:44:34.320 It was like that's her way of saying, I really 1:44:34.320 --> 1:44:37.120 wanted this is what I want. And so I had 1:44:37.160 --> 1:44:40.519 this dream similar to have like a third car, like 1:44:40.560 --> 1:44:42.479 a third garage where I would that I would build 1:44:42.520 --> 1:44:45.559 into like a butcher shop, and and we had that 1:44:46.160 --> 1:44:48.479 added onto the build, like that would that would happen? 1:44:49.520 --> 1:44:52.040 And I started thinking, like I started getting to the 1:44:52.040 --> 1:44:54.000 point where you know, my wife's moving to a place 1:44:54.000 --> 1:44:55.840 where I'm I'm gonna be going a lot. I'm gonna 1:44:55.920 --> 1:44:59.600 run off to go hunting. She wanted some better cabinets, 1:44:59.640 --> 1:45:03.080 some better flooring, some better this better that I'm like, 1:45:04.479 --> 1:45:07.240 I just said, honey, I'm gonna be gone a lot. 1:45:07.360 --> 1:45:09.920 You know this. You've been married to me. You know 1:45:10.200 --> 1:45:13.519 I'm gonna take that money from the from this third 1:45:13.560 --> 1:45:16.000 car garage, and I'm going to give it to you 1:45:16.360 --> 1:45:20.000 to use and whatever way that you want. So that way, 1:45:20.040 --> 1:45:23.680 when I'm gone during elk season, you can walk on 1:45:23.720 --> 1:45:30.280 those new floors, and when you're in the care nice 1:45:30.400 --> 1:45:32.880 kitchen with your half of elks brought out across the 1:45:33.240 --> 1:45:37.559 top butcher, and you'll be like, see told you. I 1:45:37.600 --> 1:45:40.680 was trying to establish this benevolence, but I don't know 1:45:40.720 --> 1:45:43.120 if it will work or not. Well, we we have 1:45:43.200 --> 1:45:46.880 another deal at our house that my wife and our 1:45:47.000 --> 1:45:50.439 sister go on some vacations. Uh, and my wife and 1:45:50.479 --> 1:45:53.360 I go do our thing too. But the deal is 1:45:53.400 --> 1:45:56.400 when she comes back from a vacation, I never look 1:45:56.479 --> 1:45:58.479 at the bank statement or the credit card and say 1:45:58.479 --> 1:46:03.960 a word yeah. And when I come back from a 1:46:04.040 --> 1:46:08.040 hunting trip or I do something. The words never said 1:46:08.080 --> 1:46:12.240 about what it costs. Now, if I started getting outside 1:46:12.320 --> 1:46:17.559 the side the bounds of or she did, I'm sure 1:46:17.560 --> 1:46:20.599 we'd have a discussion. But when you think about that, 1:46:20.720 --> 1:46:25.360 you know, when when this person talks about gear, you 1:46:25.400 --> 1:46:29.680 think about how many things in life really aren't that 1:46:29.760 --> 1:46:33.320 important over arguing. And maybe this just comes with age 1:46:33.560 --> 1:46:37.960 or or length of relationship. Uh, those kinds of things 1:46:37.960 --> 1:46:42.200 really aren't worth arguing over. They're they're often expressions of 1:46:42.280 --> 1:46:47.320 some other perceived unfairness, and it expresses itself. And you 1:46:47.439 --> 1:46:49.880 know that new piece of gear you got there, that's 1:46:50.040 --> 1:46:52.720 that's problematic and we need to talk about that. Well, 1:46:52.720 --> 1:46:55.719 there's a form of car they get, Yettie. A buddy 1:46:55.760 --> 1:46:57.519 of mine name is Andy Holland, who's one of the 1:46:57.560 --> 1:47:01.200 first employees ever Yettie. When he was there, c c 1:47:01.360 --> 1:47:04.679 O for a long time, UM or CFO, I'm sorry 1:47:04.720 --> 1:47:07.160 for a long time. He told me one time, he said, Well, 1:47:07.160 --> 1:47:09.240 we do. My wife and I we have an account 1:47:09.240 --> 1:47:11.040 that pays all the bills and takes care of all 1:47:11.040 --> 1:47:13.639 the living, and then each of us has our own account. 1:47:14.800 --> 1:47:16.800 Each month, we get a certain amount of money that's 1:47:16.840 --> 1:47:19.960 ours to spend on whatever we want, and neither of 1:47:20.040 --> 1:47:23.160 us can criticize or even even at some point see 1:47:23.360 --> 1:47:33.320 Randy's playing out a large some So that's we ready 1:47:33.360 --> 1:47:37.920 got to talk about business opportunities. But Randy has a 1:47:38.000 --> 1:47:41.120 large money clip of cash that he uses in the 1:47:41.160 --> 1:47:44.719 same way. I'm assuming because that's that's that's what Andy 1:47:44.800 --> 1:47:47.800 told me said. You know, she never touches my little kitty, 1:47:47.880 --> 1:47:51.320 and I don't touch hers, and it's perfect. Yeah, there's 1:47:51.360 --> 1:47:54.040 no way too. So this big wide und dollar bills. 1:47:54.040 --> 1:47:55.519 I don't know why I had it in my pocket 1:47:55.560 --> 1:47:58.040 today other than I I gotta be careful leaving it 1:47:58.080 --> 1:48:01.360 on the counter. My wife will grab something. But we 1:48:01.400 --> 1:48:05.160 each have our own allowance. The household budget gives us 1:48:05.200 --> 1:48:09.439 each and allowance each month, uh of dollars and anything 1:48:09.479 --> 1:48:15.000 that you can sell, sell, salvage, otherwise convert to money 1:48:15.040 --> 1:48:19.720 that's yours. And so I my one friend calls it 1:48:19.800 --> 1:48:23.640 his sock drawer money. Uh so this is my You've 1:48:23.640 --> 1:48:26.040 been saving yours for quite a while. Oh yeah, I 1:48:27.000 --> 1:48:29.760 So when I sell my muskrats or sell my beaver, 1:48:30.400 --> 1:48:32.519 when I do some trapping, that that out goes, that 1:48:32.640 --> 1:48:37.880 goes in there. When I recycle some old stuff, that man, 1:48:37.920 --> 1:48:40.400 I haven't used that for twelve years. Out to sell 1:48:40.520 --> 1:48:44.320 that when I sell some of my old decoys. I 1:48:44.400 --> 1:48:47.160 used to collect duct decoys. And every once in a 1:48:47.160 --> 1:48:49.200 while someone will say, I've heard you have this. Yeah 1:48:49.200 --> 1:48:54.679 I do. I'll pay you here you go green stuff. 1:48:55.439 --> 1:48:58.160 So that that's how it's solved. I don't know what 1:48:58.240 --> 1:49:02.120 my wife's equivalent of that is. It's something good. I 1:49:02.160 --> 1:49:05.559 don't rummage through her purse looking to see how much 1:49:05.800 --> 1:49:10.920 soccer o money she has. But so that's that's scow 1:49:11.200 --> 1:49:15.639 the waters at our house also, and that's also life 1:49:15.760 --> 1:49:20.720 living living life with an accountant. Yeah, for he knows 1:49:20.800 --> 1:49:23.519 that cash is the only way to really have money. Yeah, 1:49:23.640 --> 1:49:26.080 for those who didn't know. In my other life, I 1:49:26.120 --> 1:49:29.439 am a c p A. So yeah, maybe I approach 1:49:29.520 --> 1:49:31.760 this differently than Yeah. I feel like three accounts a 1:49:31.800 --> 1:49:34.200 pocket full of cash is probably more. It's probably more 1:49:34.200 --> 1:49:37.280 beneficial for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is funny. I 1:49:37.280 --> 1:49:40.880 I used to use an outside production company instead of 1:49:40.920 --> 1:49:44.200 having all my own employees. And we're in Galina, Alaska. 1:49:44.960 --> 1:49:48.760 I tell the production company, do not let your employees 1:49:48.800 --> 1:49:52.280 show up with credit cards, send them with a Gobba cash. Well, 1:49:52.320 --> 1:49:54.280 I show up, I got four thousand dollars of cash 1:49:54.280 --> 1:49:59.240 in my pocket. And because I know what happened out there, well, 1:49:59.520 --> 1:50:01.800 whether aid lays us, we've got to go to some 1:50:02.040 --> 1:50:05.960 local person there. And hey, you know our flight now 1:50:06.120 --> 1:50:08.680 got too Fairbanks got canceled for three days because of 1:50:08.680 --> 1:50:11.600 the weather. We need a room. Yep, hundred dollars for you, 1:50:11.680 --> 1:50:13.600 hundred dollars for you, and you and you and you, 1:50:13.800 --> 1:50:15.920 so five hundred dollars a night to sleep in this 1:50:16.800 --> 1:50:23.200 really really rough place. And the production crew guys are 1:50:23.240 --> 1:50:25.320 pulling out their debit cards and credit cards, and this 1:50:25.360 --> 1:50:30.200 guy's rolling on the ground laughing. Sorry, boys, you can 1:50:30.200 --> 1:50:32.720 sleep out in the rain and the cold tonight. Uh. 1:50:33.320 --> 1:50:38.120 Fortunately I had my big water cash and bailed us 1:50:38.120 --> 1:50:41.880 out of that situation. But cash is a very handy 1:50:41.920 --> 1:50:44.400 thing to have. Now. It's a generational thing though too, 1:50:44.439 --> 1:50:48.920 like cash is such a such a foreign object of millennials. 1:50:48.960 --> 1:50:52.000 It is my camera guys. Everyone on my crew is 1:50:52.120 --> 1:50:56.200 thirty or younger. They never have more than two dollars 1:50:56.240 --> 1:50:58.320 with them and probably feel like cash is a weird 1:50:58.360 --> 1:51:01.080 thing to happen. Yeah, and they told me they're using 1:51:01.120 --> 1:51:05.120 debit cards. First of all, if you've ever done anything 1:51:05.240 --> 1:51:07.320 related well, and you wouldn't if you were in a 1:51:07.360 --> 1:51:09.120 c p A. But we have to go to these 1:51:09.120 --> 1:51:11.760 classes every year to maintain our certificate. One of them 1:51:11.920 --> 1:51:16.920 is fraud. Well, the number one compromised vehicle in the 1:51:16.960 --> 1:51:19.800 world is a debit card. If you're listening to this, 1:51:19.920 --> 1:51:22.639 do not use a debit card, not a credit card. 1:51:23.040 --> 1:51:26.640 A credit card is okay, a debit card, don't use it. 1:51:27.479 --> 1:51:30.840 And so my my guys are always using debit cards, 1:51:30.840 --> 1:51:33.280 and I almost threatened to fire them. I'm like, if 1:51:33.320 --> 1:51:35.040 you don't get rid of that debit card, I think 1:51:35.040 --> 1:51:36.720 I'm gonna have to fire you because I've told you 1:51:36.760 --> 1:51:41.040 about ten times now. I'm gonna quietly slide mine into 1:51:41.080 --> 1:51:45.599 the trash camp. I would and ask any banker if 1:51:45.600 --> 1:51:48.719 they have a debit card. No, they all use credit cards. 1:51:48.720 --> 1:51:51.520 Why because they see the amount of fraud and compromise. 1:51:51.640 --> 1:51:55.320 It happens people that have been act And when you 1:51:55.360 --> 1:51:59.080 think about it, when someone steals gets your compromises your 1:51:59.120 --> 1:52:01.759 debit card, there's dealing right out of your bank account, 1:52:02.400 --> 1:52:05.479 whereas if they compromise your credit card, they're stealing from 1:52:05.479 --> 1:52:09.479 the credit card company. Those companies are they've got people 1:52:09.520 --> 1:52:11.880 on staff to go and recover that and prevent that. 1:52:12.880 --> 1:52:16.200 Good luck recovering your bank account. They just got cleaned out. 1:52:16.200 --> 1:52:18.719 It should be changing live. None of this other ethical 1:52:18.720 --> 1:52:21.720 stuff we talked about helped you at all. This is 1:52:21.720 --> 1:52:24.599 it to your point? It is a generational thing. It 1:52:24.680 --> 1:52:29.520 drives me nuts. We'll stop out of place and uh, 1:52:29.800 --> 1:52:31.360 I'll ask one of the guys, hey, can you run 1:52:31.400 --> 1:52:33.840 in and crab that? And they don't have me cash 1:52:33.880 --> 1:52:37.280 with him. Oh, I handed my credit card. Now, that's fine, 1:52:37.280 --> 1:52:40.200 and take care of it. But I would feel if 1:52:40.240 --> 1:52:43.000 I leave the house in the morning, there's three things 1:52:43.040 --> 1:52:45.200 I look for. I have my phone, do I have 1:52:45.280 --> 1:52:48.519 my keys? And do I have my cash? Yeah? I'm in, 1:52:49.120 --> 1:52:51.920 I'm in. I want to be paying something. Roll around. 1:52:53.040 --> 1:52:54.840 Someone's going to see me out in the dark street 1:52:54.920 --> 1:52:58.960 here and roll me. Well, Randy carry's guns as well. 1:52:59.080 --> 1:53:03.439 That's right. There's nothing on this body that's worth dying for. Yeah. 1:53:04.280 --> 1:53:06.080 I don't leave my house without my guns, my big 1:53:06.120 --> 1:53:09.800 wads of cash, my jewelry. I should have said the 1:53:09.840 --> 1:53:12.639 other part. Yeah, if you went out in my car 1:53:12.760 --> 1:53:17.320 right now, I am heavily. I'm very able to protect myself. 1:53:17.439 --> 1:53:19.960 Let's put that way, all right. I think we got 1:53:19.960 --> 1:53:22.680 it all figured out right, Yehnny, we know we've got 1:53:22.680 --> 1:53:26.120 to come back, look a lot more to do. But 1:53:26.200 --> 1:53:28.400 thanks for everybody who will endeavored to send us these 1:53:28.400 --> 1:53:32.200 ponderings and we uh, we appreciate it. Yeah, good questions. Yeah, 1:53:32.280 --> 1:53:33.760 there are some really good ones in there, and we'll 1:53:33.840 --> 1:53:36.240 we'll definitely do it again. So don't be shy send 1:53:36.280 --> 1:53:38.599 them along, even if we don't ask for him, because 1:53:38.600 --> 1:53:41.240 I know you're not. So thanks for Randy. Thanks for 1:53:41.320 --> 1:53:44.400 having me. Guys really appreciate it. Welcome to month, Welcome 1:53:44.479 --> 1:53:48.240 to Bosman. How long you've been here about two coming 1:53:48.320 --> 1:53:52.439 up on two and a half weeks, But you're old time, 1:53:52.520 --> 1:53:56.000 you're almost homes Yeah, it's it's honest, your honest, you've 1:53:56.040 --> 1:54:00.559 been here what five years now? He's an all crushed 1:54:00.600 --> 1:54:04.880 you could run for political office there long enough. No, 1:54:05.040 --> 1:54:07.879 I have two weeks and I'm feeling I'm feeling settled. 1:54:08.520 --> 1:54:10.720 I'm feeling settled. As my wife said, when I look 1:54:10.720 --> 1:54:14.240 at the mountains, I feel good like I love you, honey. No. 1:54:14.439 --> 1:54:17.040 Thanks for what you guys produce. Thanks for the content 1:54:17.080 --> 1:54:20.439 you're doing, and I follow a lot of your stuff. 1:54:20.920 --> 1:54:23.880 You guys have really good discussions across all your platforms, 1:54:23.880 --> 1:54:28.120 and I think the value of having platforms in our 1:54:28.160 --> 1:54:32.360 world media platforms. Maybe I'm wrong in this, but I 1:54:32.400 --> 1:54:36.839 feel strongly that when you are blessed with the trust 1:54:36.880 --> 1:54:39.680 audience is placed in you, you need to use it 1:54:39.800 --> 1:54:43.840 to explore some of these issues, to have these discussions. 1:54:43.840 --> 1:54:47.000 And if you don't, if you're if you shy away 1:54:47.080 --> 1:54:50.000 from these discussions, and I don't care if it's politics, ethics, 1:54:50.440 --> 1:54:55.120 whatever it is, are you really giving back to your 1:54:55.160 --> 1:54:59.840 audience or are our pastime of hunting to the degree 1:55:00.080 --> 1:55:03.440 you could, yeah, we're Maybe that's judging too much, but 1:55:03.600 --> 1:55:07.880 I hope people feel encouraged to to have these discussions. 1:55:07.920 --> 1:55:10.400 They're never easy. You're gonna get some criticism no matter 1:55:10.440 --> 1:55:14.080 what you do, but it further stuff. Yeah, I think 1:55:14.120 --> 1:55:18.000 we're all happily centrist and we're happily pro nuance here. 1:55:19.760 --> 1:55:23.880 I like that it's uncomfortable, but usually if you go 1:55:23.920 --> 1:55:27.280 and take uncomfortable things all you come out the other end. 1:55:27.760 --> 1:55:30.400 Or I'm happy to have anybody that listens, that thinks 1:55:30.440 --> 1:55:31.800 the way I do about that you know, and the 1:55:31.800 --> 1:55:33.640 way that you do, and the way that Yanni doesn't. 1:55:33.640 --> 1:55:36.200 Steve Ornella and everybody else. I mean, I'm happy that 1:55:36.200 --> 1:55:39.880 there's people out there that share those values, take the 1:55:39.920 --> 1:55:42.160 time to listen to these types of things. Well, thanks 1:55:42.160 --> 1:55:44.040 for having me. Guys really appreciate it. Thank you, Randy. 1:55:44.040 --> 1:55:50.480 We appreciate you. That's it. That's all episode number forty 1:55:51.560 --> 1:55:56.040 in the books. Thanks to Randy and honest but specifically Randy, 1:55:56.120 --> 1:56:00.080 because he doesn't work here, Jannest does. And but of 1:56:00.160 --> 1:56:03.400 those guys, it couldn't be more sound minds to to 1:56:03.480 --> 1:56:07.240 take on some of those questions. And I really admire 1:56:07.360 --> 1:56:10.000 and I am a fan of Randy Newberg and what 1:56:10.040 --> 1:56:13.880 he does for our community. Um, I can't say enough 1:56:13.920 --> 1:56:16.440 about him and his willingness to come and sit and 1:56:16.440 --> 1:56:18.480 spend two hours' acting around with us when he's a 1:56:18.560 --> 1:56:22.680 very busy, manful lot to do. So thanks to Randy 1:56:22.800 --> 1:56:25.640 for that. Thanks to all of you for submitting your questions. 1:56:25.680 --> 1:56:28.360 We got way more than I ever thought possible. So, UM, 1:56:28.360 --> 1:56:30.680 if we didn't get to yours and didn't get your 1:56:30.680 --> 1:56:33.160 response to on on Instagram, thank you, thank you for 1:56:33.200 --> 1:56:36.080 sending these questions in and we'll probably do this again. UM, 1:56:36.120 --> 1:56:39.800 so tell your friends if you don't mind UM about 1:56:39.800 --> 1:56:42.120 this one. What else what else, what else? Well, you 1:56:42.160 --> 1:56:44.120 could also go to the Mediator dot com. You could 1:56:44.120 --> 1:56:45.960 definitely do that. You can read some stories that are 1:56:45.960 --> 1:56:47.640 there and things of that nature, and then you can 1:56:47.680 --> 1:56:52.480 subscribe to the newsletter that's there. You could visit the 1:56:52.640 --> 1:56:55.880 store and there's some Hunting Collective merge in the store, 1:56:56.280 --> 1:56:59.560 so then you could he's supporting a nice pro nuance 1:56:59.640 --> 1:57:04.800 anti bullshit t shirt. Definitely do that. Um Or you 1:57:04.840 --> 1:57:08.879 could just get a wonderful hoodie with the Hunting Collective 1:57:08.960 --> 1:57:12.000 podcast logo on the front. It's pretty cool, it's gray, 1:57:12.080 --> 1:57:15.480 it's nice. I like it. Um There's other things you 1:57:15.520 --> 1:57:18.640 can do. There's Mediator apparel, there's wine to Hunt apparel. 1:57:19.000 --> 1:57:20.720 There's all kinds of stuff in there that you can 1:57:20.760 --> 1:57:25.400 go and do at the Meteor dot com. If there's 1:57:25.400 --> 1:57:28.400 anything else, I'm forgetting. I'll probably get to it next 1:57:28.400 --> 1:57:32.680 time for episode forty one, but until then, thank you, 1:57:33.120 --> 1:57:35.920 thank you, thank you. Bye.