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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to episode number forty of The Hunting Collective.

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Speaker 1: I happen to be Ben O'Brien and also happened to

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Speaker 1: be in Bozeman, Montana with my friends Joannest Patelis and

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Speaker 1: uh first time guests on the show, Randy Newburgh. Randy

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Speaker 1: Newburg of Fresh Tracks and many other awesome pieces of

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Speaker 1: content on his platform. So we love Randy. Just to say,

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Speaker 1: what a good dude. What a pleasure to sit in

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Speaker 1: a room and talk with Randy and have Janni at

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Speaker 1: our side. It was a great conversation around ethics, moral principles,

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Speaker 1: as it were ethical questions that you all submitted and

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Speaker 1: we tried our best to answer. But they're always interesting

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Speaker 1: to to bat around, interesting to um I d eight

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Speaker 1: on and and find ways to express some pretty complicated

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Speaker 1: ideas and hopefully UM way that are clear and I

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Speaker 1: can clarify some of your issues out there in the woods.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, please enjoy Randy Newburg and honest

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Speaker 1: tell us, Mr Randy Newburgh, how are you, sir? I'm

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Speaker 1: so close to perfect, Ben, you couldn't measure the difference,

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Speaker 1: and I wouldn't try. Thanks for having me, Thank you

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Speaker 1: for being on nice. But tell us how are you.

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Speaker 1: How are you doing? I'm doing well, thank you. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we're randy. We're just coming off the meat Eater Christmas party,

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Speaker 1: the first ever Bozeman Meat Eater Christmas party. Um, it

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Speaker 1: was a good a good time, but I was most

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Speaker 1: struck by the like the amount of actual good game

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Speaker 1: and other seafood that we actually, hey, we should have

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Speaker 1: invited you. Now I feel bad. I'm telling you how

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Speaker 1: great it was. It's all right. I could have brought

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Speaker 1: something over. You know, I had a bison tag this year,

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Speaker 1: and I could have brought some bison. Yeah, you got

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Speaker 1: a few steaks, and I do. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: get it. Yeah, I'll get over it next year. Yanni,

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Speaker 1: you injected a secret deer ham. Mm hmm, I never

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Speaker 1: did get I wanted to before we start, get your

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Speaker 1: method on that, because it was If anybody saw my instagram,

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Speaker 1: it was one of the best wild game hams I've

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Speaker 1: ever eat in my life. So please the secret deer

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Speaker 1: definitely helps because it is one tender little animal. But

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Speaker 1: my neighbor did the same exact process with a young

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Speaker 1: mule deer's ham for Thanksgiving, and I had some of

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Speaker 1: it a couple of days later leftovers and it was

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Speaker 1: equally good, tender, juicy. But yeah, I didn't do anything special,

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Speaker 1: just took Brian recipe out of the old Meat Eater

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Speaker 1: cookbook that better go out and one. If you want

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Speaker 1: one before the next hunting season, get ordered it now

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Speaker 1: because they're back ordered. You'll get it about yeah June.

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Speaker 1: Um no, I'm joking there. I won't take that long

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Speaker 1: that there's more coming. I don't know exactly when. But anyways,

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Speaker 1: I made a Brian and I did two hams, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I think I just injected them twice. But I have

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Speaker 1: one of those, um, I don't know what they call.

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Speaker 1: It's just like a meat injector. It's like it's a

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Speaker 1: it looks like a stainless steel giant needle. It's but

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Speaker 1: it's not sharp like a needle. And the end of

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Speaker 1: the what would be the needle has three or four

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Speaker 1: little ports. You fill it up with Brian and you

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Speaker 1: just jamming into that ham and push it in there.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know I did that twenty or thirty

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Speaker 1: times per ham until the Brian stort of starts squirting

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Speaker 1: out of the holes you've been making. And uh, I

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Speaker 1: might I think I only did that twice. I did

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Speaker 1: when I first put it in the brine, and then

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Speaker 1: maybe two days later, and I brined it for I

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Speaker 1: put it on Saturday morning and we started cooking at

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Speaker 1: Wednesday at about two or three in the afternoon, So

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Speaker 1: five days and uh yeah. There might have been a

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Speaker 1: couple of gray spots right around the bone where Brian

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Speaker 1: didn't quite reach. Didn't matter to me. But it was good, fantastic, fantastic.

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Speaker 1: We smoked it for I don't know, four to six

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Speaker 1: hours around yeah, something something like that. It was. It

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Speaker 1: was pretty unbelievable. You you ever seeking to your hunted, right,

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Speaker 1: I have not, because listen to you guys talk about this.

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Speaker 1: I have a full let's a blacktail ham in my

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Speaker 1: freether right now, off fault hind quarter, trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out what to do with that. This may be the

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Speaker 1: way to go. Yeah, what I like about it when

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Speaker 1: you brian it and then smoke it, it seems like

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Speaker 1: it gives you much better leftovers than with just a roast.

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Speaker 1: Roasts are good. You can then slice them into a sandwich.

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Speaker 1: But it's like that hamminess of it, you know what

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Speaker 1: the Brian does. Um, the last one we did. We

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Speaker 1: did it for a little cooking special we did, and

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Speaker 1: my daughter and I the other daughter in my wife

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Speaker 1: just weren't that into it. So she and I ate

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Speaker 1: on it for a good week. Well and yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: just like because you've brind it and smoked. It's just

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Speaker 1: it's cured, right, not going bad. No, it's a sandwich

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Speaker 1: for however long you wanted to be. Well, yeah, we'd

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Speaker 1: have it in the morn with eggs. We make a sandwich,

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Speaker 1: then we reheat it and have with some mustard in

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Speaker 1: the evening. It's the way, it's the life. That's the life.

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Speaker 1: Well normally, normally, well, we bullshit way more. We would

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Speaker 1: probably bullshit for another hour. That's what I excel at. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: me too. That's why I'm sure. That's why I'm here

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Speaker 1: is the Janice has been on my platforms before, so

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Speaker 1: he knows that I'm below average at everything other than

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Speaker 1: b Yeah, I try to be. I try to be

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Speaker 1: just just under average at everything in life. So not

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Speaker 1: to increase expectations, right, I'd like to keep them right

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Speaker 1: there at average. But for some reason, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about this before we hit record um. For some reason,

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Speaker 1: ethics has been something that like people have been sending

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Speaker 1: me and I'm sure sending for the media podcast, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you're any like these ethical quandaries, these ponderings

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Speaker 1: that people have that they can't answer. They you know,

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Speaker 1: they trust the three of us somehow to answer them. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know, I don't get it. Don't

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Speaker 1: ask me why. Speaking merely for myself, I could be

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Speaker 1: misplaced trust, But yes, me too. But that's what makes

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Speaker 1: the ethics thing interesting and a struggle. And that's something

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Speaker 1: we'd like to talk about, right, because it is based

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Speaker 1: off your like personal moral compass. And I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that everybody wrote in doesn't have a strong one, but

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Speaker 1: just maybe on this one particular question or topic they have,

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Speaker 1: it's just wavering a little bit and they're just looking

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Speaker 1: for maybe a little bit of guidance or just some

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Speaker 1: other people's opinions. Yeah, I mean, hunting is such a

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Speaker 1: varied practice, right. You do things that you have different perspectives,

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Speaker 1: different experiences, different traditions, and the way that things happen,

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Speaker 1: and like when your traditions, um, the way you do

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Speaker 1: things collide with someone else is sometimes it could seem

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Speaker 1: like something on the ethical is happening, which is that's

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Speaker 1: just the way we do it right. And I, I said,

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Speaker 1: on a nonprofit board for thirteen years, and our goal

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Speaker 1: was about hunting behavior and hunting ethics. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that was very common to the quandaries presented

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Speaker 1: to us is how people can can conflated, conflicted, can confused,

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Speaker 1: whatever term you want to say. Uh. They seem to

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Speaker 1: use the term hunter ethics as a way to speak

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Speaker 1: of their personal preferences. And there's a hunter who's serious

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Speaker 1: indoe philosophy. He's a professor at Cornell University. His name

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Speaker 1: is Jim Tantillo. And Jim was very good at talking

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Speaker 1: about the true essence of what is an f what

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Speaker 1: what is ethics, and what is personal preference. So I

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Speaker 1: whenever someone uses the word ethics, I start having this

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Speaker 1: real almost like then my intentas are vibrating. Is this

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Speaker 1: a question about true ethics or is this just someone

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Speaker 1: saying this is my personal way of doing things and

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Speaker 1: someone else does it differently and I want confirmation that

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Speaker 1: I'm doing it right and they're doing it wrong or

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Speaker 1: and I I don't want to say I stray away

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Speaker 1: from it, but a lot of times I will do

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Speaker 1: it or my response will be kind of what you

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Speaker 1: just said, Ben, is that this might be a cultural, geographic,

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Speaker 1: whatever difference in how we do it, but is it

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Speaker 1: truly an ethical issue? Yeah? And I think you know

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Speaker 1: every conversation we have around ethics, when you hear the

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Speaker 1: question or you hear the story, what you're thinking is

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Speaker 1: it is this an ethics situation or are you just

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Speaker 1: wondering why you're ways different than someone else? Right? Like

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Speaker 1: it just it always ends up that way. Can you just,

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Speaker 1: in Layman's terms, kind of explain a little bit about

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Speaker 1: how how he differentiated the two, like what was the

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Speaker 1: main difference between ethics and just like your personal way? Well,

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Speaker 1: Jim is one of these people who have a brain

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Speaker 1: bigger than my body. So I'm going to destroy it

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Speaker 1: by trying to summarize the You take someone with a

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Speaker 1: PhD and philosophy and ask an accountant to explain what

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Speaker 1: they're talking about, you're heading down the wrong path to

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Speaker 1: start with. Uh. But he, Jim does a very good

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Speaker 1: job of, in a brief system or a brief term,

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Speaker 1: explaining the kind of how we as us human culture

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Speaker 1: arrived at this notion of ethics. There are certain accepted

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Speaker 1: norms and certain unaccepted norms. Now, the norm is usually

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Speaker 1: the motivation and the person feelings of why or or

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Speaker 1: what you're doing in contrast to how you your motives

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Speaker 1: versus others. Okay, a preference is, well, I shoot a

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Speaker 1: traditional bow rather than a countpound bow. Some people will

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Speaker 1: try to mix it up as an ethics argument. No,

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Speaker 1: it's not. Some people will say, well, I hunt bears

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Speaker 1: over bait, but or someone will say I spot in

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Speaker 1: stock them, but those other guys out of the hun

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Speaker 1: him over bait. That's not an ethics issue. That is

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Speaker 1: really an issue related to preferences, right. Uh. Your motive

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Speaker 1: for either of them is to go out and get

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Speaker 1: some some food and fill a tack. How you do it,

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Speaker 1: there's not usually an ethics issue. Yeah, And most of

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Speaker 1: the things that we'll we'll tackle here this afternoon are

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Speaker 1: your first reaction a lot of times as well. It depends,

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Speaker 1: it depends on what your motivation is, on what your

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Speaker 1: value system is, on the angle at which you come

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Speaker 1: at this, you know, And I think that's like moral

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Speaker 1: principles in general are just tough to define. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's such a man, it's it's such a malleable idea

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Speaker 1: that it's almost scary to like dive into and try

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Speaker 1: to answer these things because there's there's no answer. There's

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Speaker 1: sometimes where you d have to draw an ethical line,

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Speaker 1: like that is an ethical one. You damn well know it, sir,

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Speaker 1: I mean you know it. I think we often feel

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Speaker 1: that we as hunters are different than the rest of society,

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Speaker 1: when we're really nothing more than a cross section of

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Speaker 1: the bigger society. And if you step out of the

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Speaker 1: hunting world into any other part of our society, there

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Speaker 1: are the same ethics questions. Obviously they have a different

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Speaker 1: contact and a different discussion about them. But every activity

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Speaker 1: in society has its ethics. Whether we're talking business, whether

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Speaker 1: we're talking about volunteerism, whether we're talking about the elopment

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Speaker 1: of landscapes, whatever it is, you end up in the

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Speaker 1: same areas of discussion about what's ethical not ethical. Very

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Speaker 1: often in those same discussions people use a sideboard of well,

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Speaker 1: legal is my sideboard, and I'm willing to come inside

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Speaker 1: that even further to define what my creed or my

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Speaker 1: ethic is. Yeah, but we're no difference than the rest

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Speaker 1: of the society. We think we are, but we're not yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think it's good the hunting community in recent

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Speaker 1: time that you can probably you know, having your experience

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Speaker 1: UM much deeper than mine. But I think in recent

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Speaker 1: years that there's been a more self awareness, like more like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we this is complex, this is we are killing something here,

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Speaker 1: rather than just we do it this way and don't

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Speaker 1: question us. I think there's more given the fact that

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Speaker 1: we had four hundred and seventy one people message Instagram

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Speaker 1: with different things they were wondering about, Like people are

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Speaker 1: willing to go there, They're willing to do it. It's

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Speaker 1: definitely a modern human luxury to sit around and think

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Speaker 1: about these things. That is truely honest, that that is

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Speaker 1: very true. I think if there's a and you get

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Speaker 1: into that modern luxury discussion in the hunting world, when

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Speaker 1: you see cultural traditions that are not considered offensive, say

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Speaker 1: in the out just outlying areas of Africa, compared to

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Speaker 1: what it is in the United States or even where

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Speaker 1: the person comes from. So h a U. S. Citizen

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Speaker 1: who goes to Africa and does certain things is going

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Speaker 1: to be judged way differently than someone who lives in

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Speaker 1: Africa and does certain things. And we we just put

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Speaker 1: really critical, uh, microscopes on people based on what their

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Speaker 1: background is based done where they're from geographically, and back

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Speaker 1: to your point of luxury. Since we in the United

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Speaker 1: States have luxuries beyond most of the rest of the world,

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Speaker 1: we're going to get judged differently than somebody from South

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Speaker 1: America and the rainforest or someone from Sub Saharan Africa

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Speaker 1: or something. Yeah. I mean it's and it's much like,

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Speaker 1: as you know, especially in hunting, the national world doesn't

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Speaker 1: really have any ethical quand elk aren't like wondering should

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Speaker 1: we mow down this pasture because we're hungry and wolves

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Speaker 1: are like, I don't know if we should take that

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Speaker 1: calf down. Yeah, you know what, we got them kind

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Speaker 1: of pinned into this box canyon feeling a little on us.

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Speaker 1: Not fair, it's not fair. Let's let him get back

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Speaker 1: out in into the prairie where we can have a

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Speaker 1: longer chase and then if we get one we'll feel

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Speaker 1: good about now. They're just like A to B A

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Speaker 1: to B. And when you get into ethics versus preferences,

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Speaker 1: there are some that are just so if you step

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Speaker 1: back and you weren't a hunter, the hypocrisy of it

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Speaker 1: to someone who's not a hunter is glaring and I

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Speaker 1: shoot grouse on the ground. I am unapologetic that I

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Speaker 1: shoot grouse out of trees, Grouse on the ground, Grouse

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Speaker 1: that fly, not just with your bulb while your old,

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Speaker 1: but with a shotgun. If I come up to a

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Speaker 1: tree and there are three grouse up in that tree,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be three grouse on the ground. You're coming

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Speaker 1: home now. There there are people who would say in

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Speaker 1: the same with peasants. So here here's my contradiction. I

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Speaker 1: don't shoot pheasants on the ground, okay. But to a

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Speaker 1: non hunter who's not familiar with our customs, they would say,

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Speaker 1: why would you flush an animal where you have a

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Speaker 1: greater likelihood of missing or you know, not a complete

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Speaker 1: lethal kill. Why is that considered your norm? You don't

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Speaker 1: flush an elk, You don't flush you dear are your weight?

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Speaker 1: So to those not in the hunting world, they look

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Speaker 1: at us like you people have some really crazy ideas

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Speaker 1: about what's right and what's wrong. Yeah, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about it yesterday around the European UM feeling on bow hunting.

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Speaker 1: Most of Europe they're like, we're just done. That's it's

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Speaker 1: either illegal in some places, or they just it's just

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Speaker 1: frowned upon. Starting to change a little bit. Some places

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Speaker 1: I know of, but traditionally you go over there, it's like,

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Speaker 1: we shoot things with rifles because that's the most effective tool,

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Speaker 1: right that there is. But at the same time, and

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Speaker 1: I've only been Bulgarian, Germany and some other places, but

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Speaker 1: at the same time they shoot running game, they do

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Speaker 1: driven hunts. I'm like, wait a minute, I could maybe

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Speaker 1: get with you on the first part, but the second,

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Speaker 1: Like what that doesn't mean you could shoot shoot running

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Speaker 1: things because you have rifles. You should still approach it

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Speaker 1: as you should try to make make ethically it should

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Speaker 1: probably be standing. I would say, I mean fishing with

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Speaker 1: my wife as a contradiction, my wife has a statement

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Speaker 1: that she says all the time, if you hook them,

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Speaker 1: you cook them. So those who listen to my platforms

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Speaker 1: know that my wife is a fanatic while angler, and

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Speaker 1: while I are as good at table fires, you're going

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Speaker 1: to find in the fresh waters in North America, the

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Speaker 1: limit in Montana's five. When we go there, once she

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Speaker 1: has her five fish were done. Then when I catch

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Speaker 1: my five fish, she's on me. Let's go, honey, we're

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Speaker 1: into him. Yeah, you know, we've been searching for three days.

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Speaker 1: We found them. That's not going out And she just

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Speaker 1: crosses her arms and give me this. No, this is

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Speaker 1: about acquiring food, and don't be thumping and messing with

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Speaker 1: these poor fish and taking them out of the water.

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Speaker 1: And I know some people listening are gonna be like, man,

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Speaker 1: your wife's got some issues. But it's just her value

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Speaker 1: system of where she's at with that. And I would

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Speaker 1: say that's the biggest reason. And even though we live

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Speaker 1: in the fly fishing capital of the world, or some

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Speaker 1: would say here in Bozeman, Montana, the sour looks she

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Speaker 1: got when we first moved here, where I knock a

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Speaker 1: trout on the head and throat and the cooler and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna eat it. That almost the That's where she

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Speaker 1: part of what drove her to become more of a

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Speaker 1: walleye fisherman. While anglers don't have quite the what would

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Speaker 1: I say, the the worry about having to release every

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Speaker 1: fish as the trowal world does. So I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that's right or wrong. I'm just saying here's two people

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Speaker 1: living in the same household who have completely different perspectives

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Speaker 1: or somewhat different perspectives just on something. Fish and fish

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Speaker 1: get treated in the eyes of our society differently than mammals,

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Speaker 1: differently than bird, differently than I was just gonna say,

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Speaker 1: I find that, like I always tell cash re LEAs

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Speaker 1: fly fisherman, somebody's like, I'm gonna catching least fisherman. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: that's an interesting way to put it. But hunting has

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Speaker 1: already had society is kind of already showing its light

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Speaker 1: on hunting and said, what's going on over there? I

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Speaker 1: don't really like that. I don't know if I don't

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Speaker 1: like that, that doesn't seem ethical. Fishing, especially fly fishing,

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Speaker 1: hasn't hasn't gotten that yet, like that it hasn't been

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Speaker 1: where um, a guy with a fish, a giant fish

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Speaker 1: that he caught that he knows he's gonna throw back

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Speaker 1: is getting called out on social media and because it's

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Speaker 1: just I would say, it's probably just the thing that

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Speaker 1: they're catching, rather than if they were catching an elkins

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Speaker 1: throw out it back be different. So I just throw

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Speaker 1: those out there to give the audience some contact of

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Speaker 1: how I look at this and answer these questions is

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Speaker 1: I try to sort out what's a true ethic dilemma

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Speaker 1: ethical dilemma versus what's just someone's preference or someone that's good.

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Speaker 1: I like that we should start off each question. I

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Speaker 1: think it's a real ethical questions. I think that is.

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Speaker 1: And if if we get through these and we only

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Speaker 1: find one ethical dilemma, I've got hundreds more. But I

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Speaker 1: want to add to your thought Ranny about how you

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Speaker 1: know people from the outside look at us, going, really,

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Speaker 1: why do you guys think of it that way? Or

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Speaker 1: do this or do that. One of my neighbors UM,

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Speaker 1: as an archaeologist. She works here out of the university,

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Speaker 1: and she listens to UM. I don't know if she's

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Speaker 1: I should tell her to listen to the High Collective,

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Speaker 1: but she listens to the Meteor podcast. She's not a hunter,

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Speaker 1: but she listens to it from an archaeologists point of

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Speaker 1: view of just like, how come this group of people

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Speaker 1: thinks like this? And it's so interesting to her to

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Speaker 1: like hear us like go back and forth and why

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Speaker 1: you know we put limits and rules and the different things,

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Speaker 1: and she just finds it fascinating, probably fascinating and positively

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Speaker 1: humorous a time. Yeah, yeah, And I think that's only

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Speaker 1: happening now because we're willing to have these conversations like

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Speaker 1: in the past. I'm sure you can attest this, Randy,

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Speaker 1: but it just wasn't. My dad would always say, just

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Speaker 1: don't talk about it, you know, don't if you talk

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Speaker 1: about it, the anti hunters might find out, you know,

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Speaker 1: but not that it was what we were doing was

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Speaker 1: wrong or illegal. It was just like, let's not worry

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Speaker 1: about it, Like, let's do what we did we know

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Speaker 1: to be right in ethical and if we posted out

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Speaker 1: there to the world, we might have to change it.

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Speaker 1: He must be just young enough. We're like posting out

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Speaker 1: to the world was a thing when you were a kid.

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Speaker 1: Because we never had that conversation and we hunted. We

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Speaker 1: left Michigan and went to Wisconsin to deer hunt, and

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Speaker 1: we had to drive through Chicago. So on the way back,

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Speaker 1: I mean, my dad had every version of deer strap

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Speaker 1: to We never actually did on the hood, but we

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Speaker 1: certainly we definitely had deer on the top. We'd have

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Speaker 1: him on those uh like the little care you can

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Speaker 1: stick into your hitch just back there, and um, I

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Speaker 1: definitely remember getting a few scals rolling through Chicago, But

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Speaker 1: my dad wasn't speaking of my dad have so my head, hello,

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Speaker 1: I will um. But he was not. He know, we

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Speaker 1: never had that conversation. He wasn't worried about it. I

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Speaker 1: think my you know, I don't know if we ever

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Speaker 1: drive had it directly about social media or anything, but

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Speaker 1: more just you know, this is our thing and this

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Speaker 1: is what we do. And I think that was a

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Speaker 1: prevailing thought of that of that generation, maybe thirty three

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Speaker 1: years at the stage. I know you told me your

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Speaker 1: song is I'm like, I don't know, I'm gonna I'm yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you feel like it? You know, you

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Speaker 1: saw a change in that, in the way that it

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Speaker 1: has been treated. I do. Uh. I saw a lot

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Speaker 1: of discussion of it happening in the nineties, but we

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Speaker 1: were still in the print world at that time, mostly

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Speaker 1: a little bit of TV. I uh. I often say

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Speaker 1: that most of society, not just hunting, was not ready

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Speaker 1: for social media. Yeah. You look at how we interact

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Speaker 1: with each other on platforms, and I going to read

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Speaker 1: the comments on my YouTube channel or my my Facebook page,

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Speaker 1: and not just the Hunting room, but across my personal

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Speaker 1: page also. Well, we as a society still aren't prepared

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Speaker 1: for interacting with the anonymity that comes with that. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I think in the hunting world we weren't prepared

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Speaker 1: for that. And we see it also just in the

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Speaker 1: manner in which some of our messaging happens. We see

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Speaker 1: messaging that just you shake your head and say, really,

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Speaker 1: did you? Yeah? Do you thought that was appropriate? Okay?

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I've seen a big change in that. I

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Speaker 1: think social media or digital media maybe would be the

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Speaker 1: better way to say it has brought hunting to a

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Speaker 1: point where we have to have this discussion. If we

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Speaker 1: aren't having these discussions daily, someone else other people are

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Speaker 1: having these discussions about it, and uh, we probably don't.

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Speaker 1: You want the conclude. Jan's a very discussion to drive

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Speaker 1: where we're going with this. Yeah, yeah, it's I think

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00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: it's very very healthy. Yeah. Well, let's let's get into

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Speaker 1: some of these They are varied, and they are some

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00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: of them are deep deep. Um. This is from Kevin Thompson.

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00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: Kevin and a fellow Maryland or so shout out to that. Um.

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Speaker 1: He said, I hunt mostly the Patuxent River State Park

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Speaker 1: in Howard County and my friends family farm down in

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Speaker 1: Calvert County. In short, my question around ethics is regarding

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Speaker 1: crow hunting. My dad brought me up in the woods

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Speaker 1: on crow hunting because it was a way to go

414
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: introduce safe gun use and the idea of hunting. We

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00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: never kept our kill. He still enjoys crow hunting, but

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Speaker 1: I find it harder to rationalize as I've grown older

417
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: and begun to hunt more and dive deeper into my

418
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: own ethics of the sport. I love the time of in

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00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: in the woods with him, but I find it hard

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Speaker 1: to shoot a handful of crows and leave them for foxes.

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Speaker 1: Might be over analyzing, but I want to see if you,

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00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: Randy or the Eagle had thoughts on this. What do

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00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: you think Randy Uh, As someone who's never crow hunted,

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00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: I it's hard for me to put myself in those

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00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: shoes because I I don't know what the cultural norms

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00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: are in in Maryland about crow hunting. I don't know

427
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: how it evolved or a lot of things have you

428
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: have evolved from back in our our history where we

429
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: viewed wildlife as a competitor for other resources, whether it's

430
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: the game, dam manager and I believe crow that one time,

431
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: we're deemed to be like like any predator. Yeah yeah,

432
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: And so they get viewed a little differently over time.

433
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: Some of those views of that have changed. I think

434
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: just the fact that this is a son talking about

435
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: his his father. Generationally we have different views because of

436
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: how we've evolved and how we engage and interact with

437
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: other hunters. Uh, what I would get back to, what's

438
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: his dad's motive for shooting crows? Is it? Is it

439
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 1: back to the old Hey, you know the farmer is

440
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: tired of the crow is great and problems or is

441
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: he had the mindset that crows are what are ruining

442
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: the nesting of woodcock and rough grouse and whatever else

443
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: there might be His dad might have a completely different

444
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: view of why he's doing this. And so yeah, he

445
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: says here to introduce safegun use and like what hunting is,

446
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: which might be an oxymoron's like, that's not really what

447
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: hunting is, not walking around the shooting the thing and

448
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: leaving it lay right. Um, so we have that to

449
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: go on. But even still, I think, I think I

450
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: when I think about this type of thing, I think,

451
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: as hunters, and whether we would admit it or not,

452
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: we like when the gloves come off right. We like

453
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: when it's a wild hog and we can shoot it

454
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: out of a helicopter. Like there's something attractive to that

455
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: because the ethics are so that can be stressful, and

456
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: it can be confusing and complex to like a dress.

457
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 1: Even this, um So, crows being you know, being from Maryland,

458
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: I never knew a whole bunch of people at hunting crows,

459
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: but I didn't have a few, and it was always

460
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: around this is a nuisance animal. It's you know, it's

461
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: a it's a nice way to spend your Saturday. It's

462
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: leisurely because it's not wrapped in this ethical you know,

463
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: quandary that we all have around what we kill. So

464
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: I think for me, this is a good This is

465
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: a pretty solid ethical question, especially around the relationship with

466
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: the person who taught you how to hunt and going

467
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: back to them and saying, hey, you remember the way

468
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: you taught me. I now I am questioning the way

469
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: that you taught me how to hunt or or the

470
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: way that we did it. And I think this this

471
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: is something that I've gone through with my dad. I'm like, hey, dad,

472
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: remember the way that we did it when I was

473
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: a kid. We don't. I'm not doing that anymore. Um So,

474
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 1: I think even that it's probably a you know, generationally,

475
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: you know, appropriate thing to to discuss and explorer. You know,

476
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 1: if you ever hunt crows? Never have you know a

477
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: few people that have? And do you have any feeling

478
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: like you need to like you want to? No? No,

479
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: definitely not. I mean again, for me personally, I think that,

480
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: like all predators, they're part of the ecosystem. And I

481
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: feel like, now sort of that's how science, game management

482
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: and all that stuff looks at We're not just looking

483
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: at it like oh, we need more else, so let's

484
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: kill every wolf and every mountain lion and every grizzly bear.

485
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: We've realized that that's not like the best way to

486
00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: have this like big happy hunting world, right, Um so yeah,

487
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: it's it's not for me, but again it's legal. Do

488
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: I think it's ethnically wrong to go and kill some

489
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: stuff and let it lie? I mean, we do it

490
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: with all kinds of predators, And I think that if

491
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: we just said, if it wasn't crows, but let's say

492
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: if it was chipmunks, Right, they're not even a predator,

493
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: but they're kind of like a past. You can consider

494
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: a raven or a crow a past. I guess you

495
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: can't shoot ravens, right, only crows, But you know, no

496
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: one's gonna have any ethical problem about you shooting too

497
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: many chipmunks. Okay, maybe some ardent you know, real animal

498
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: over but most hunters aren't gonna have this conversation over

499
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: a chipmunk, right. Yeah, that's like that hierarchy of what

500
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 1: we care about, right, they're greater. This is a perfect

501
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: illustration of how we place certain values on some species

502
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: and no value or a little value on other. Yeah.

503
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: And if you you know, if you talk to an ecologist,

504
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: they would say, like a healthy ecosystem very important, all

505
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: things biodiversity, all things very important, you know. So let's

506
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: not think of a predator or something we can kill

507
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: a nauseum and you know, an unglit or a game

508
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: animal something we should like really protect, like they all

509
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: if we're doing it right, we're managing them all correctly,

510
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, if someone called me up and said, hey,

511
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: you want to go on a crow shoot, because I've

512
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: never done it, I'd say, well, what do we do

513
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: with the crows? And if they said, wow, we just

514
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,479
Speaker 1: leave them lay out there? Thing? And this is just

515
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: my own personal yeah value is I think No, I'm

516
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: I'm not interested. Yeah, No, I would say that too,

517
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: But then someone might throw it back at me and say, well,

518
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: you trapple out of nuisance beaver for people in Bozeman, Montana. Yeah,

519
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: what's the difference. Well, I have friends like Joannas who

520
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: like to eat them. We're also talking about beaver gloves,

521
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: which I'm very interested and I salvage the hides, I

522
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: said allegedly castors, I said all edged details. Ah, but

523
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: so I'd have to look in the mirror and say,

524
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: am I judging that person differently than some of my

525
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: own behaviors? And yeah, because sometimes, yeah, I think it

526
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: gets tricky where we look at someone else doing it

527
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: and you and doing in your head, you can go,

528
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: you know what, the only reason you could be going

529
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: out there to do that is for fun? Yeah, right, Yeah,

530
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: and then you're like, I don't like it because you're

531
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: shooting stuff just for fun. But now back to this

532
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: guy's story, I feel like his dad is just like

533
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: it's another way to be out in the woods, right,

534
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: And maybe I think what he needs to do and

535
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: he needs to have a conversation with his dad about

536
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: it and say, you know what, man, I want to

537
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: still go out and shoot a bunch of stuff. Let's

538
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: go and uh find some rabbits. Yeah, a lot of people.

539
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: And now that I'm thinking about, I got a buddy

540
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: that bates crows, like put the little decoys out. They

541
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: put like a little poly of corn and sit there

542
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: and just whack crows all day. And nobody's eating crows.

543
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: Very few, very few. If someone is, please let us know.

544
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: But I think that sound advice. I think I think

545
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: it's it's say, hey, look, honey, is always fun. I mean,

546
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: there's always some fun in it, um, But in this case,

547
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: is there something else we can do to be having

548
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: fun that doesn't involve, um, killing a bunch of crows?

549
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: Or is like, hey, is this better for where we live,

550
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: our you know, our place, our ecosystem. If it is,

551
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: then let's keep doing it and let's have fun, and

552
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: let's let's feel like we're ethically sound and we're doing

553
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: all right in disregard um. Next one, and this is

554
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: one I think that could go a while. But this

555
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: comes from Scott Henry and he says, how do you

556
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: feel about hunters using wild game to feed their dogs?

557
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: This is a common practice among water fowler's and it's

558
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: never sat right with me. I'm not talking scraps. Either

559
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: they will go out shoot a limited birds with zero

560
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: intention of eating said birds themselves. However, the birds aren't

561
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: going to waste in quotation marks, they are being used

562
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: as pet food. I'd love to hear your thoughts on

563
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: this and in general, feeding wild games, feeding wild game

564
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: to your dogs. Randy, WHOA that that one strikes me

565
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: as worrisome from the standpoint of it's in most states,

566
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: feeding ducks or geese to your dog would be considered illegal. Yeah,

567
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: it would be. That would be all right. So if

568
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: we you can go under want and waste. Right, So

569
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: if we say that the the absolute furthest side board

570
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: in the discussion of ethics is legal, and we'll move

571
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: in from there. This is even outside the sideboard of legal.

572
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: I that one I have some ethical issues with if

573
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: if you say I'm going to go out there for

574
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: the sole purpose of shooting these and and you justify

575
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: it by saying, well, I'm going to feed it to

576
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: my dog. I've heard the same thing about spring bear

577
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: in Montana. People say, oh, yeah, I shoot him my

578
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: salvage to meat, but I feed it to my dog. Yes,

579
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: all right, Uh, technically that's you know, that's illegal. So yeah,

580
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: I think most people, when they analyze ethics, I would say,

581
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: if it's outside the legal confines that our society has

582
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: developed through our our process of governance and laws, if

583
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: we really are a society of laws, it seems as

584
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: though being outside the legal sideboards certainly puts it in

585
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: the non ethical part. Yeah, yeah, that's a neat like,

586
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: that's an easy one, and like and in this case,

587
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: if yeah, if if you're going hunting to kill, you know,

588
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: a game animal, and you intend to just feed it

589
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: to your dogs, don't do that. We could probably say.

590
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: Without none of us are wearing badges, we can all say,

591
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: don't do that. And if someone in your group is

592
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: doing it, tell him to stop doing it, because that

593
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: is not the reason here. I think the next level

594
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 1: would be in the case of hey, I'm just feeding

595
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: them scraps, or I'm feeding them cut the meat that

596
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: I don't like, or cut some meat that we don't

597
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: have time to cook, or I'm just feeding them the shanks.

598
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: Just just let ut you in the shanks. I think

599
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: that probably happens a lot because it's attached to a

600
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: bone and it would be easy to do. That's what

601
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: are the thoughts around that, like how ethic you know,

602
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 1: like this is something you could eat, but you're handing

603
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: it over to Yeah, that's your dog. But I think

604
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 1: that's where the discussion gets a little foggy here. Most

605
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 1: states will say, let's use a big game animal. For instance,

606
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: Most states in their regulations say what is the required

607
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: salvage of meat or use of meat that you have

608
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: to take from the field to not violate their rules

609
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: they call want and waste. If you don't comply with that,

610
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: you are subject to a citation for wasting in this

611
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: game animal. So in most instances it's going to be

612
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: front quarter, hind, quarterbackstraps, tenderloin. Some do or don't say

613
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,959
Speaker 1: the next meat. None of them say anything about the heart,

614
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 1: the organs of living kidneys, and the ribs. Alaska is

615
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: famous for strict one waste, but most states are famous

616
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: for our pretty lax. So I'll use an example of

617
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: a friend of mine who has probably raised my self

618
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: introspection or whatever, if that's the term, the introspection of

619
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: my own activities more than anybody. And and he's avidel hunter,

620
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: only Hans Cawalc because he it's for him. It's strictly

621
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: about food there. They're nothing about the aniler part of

622
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: it that interests him in the least. He salvages as

623
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: much of it as he can and down to every

624
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: everything he can carry out of there. But a lot

625
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 1: of the parts he boils or he processes or uses

626
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: for dog and he takes it to the next level

627
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: of He's not a big fan of how commercially processed

628
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: dog food is made, what that does to the landscape,

629
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: what that does to I mean, if you look at

630
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: how dog foods made, there's that's a that's a can

631
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: of ethics, societal ethics that might really, yeah, what can

632
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: hunters do to help that out? So his theory is,

633
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: I'm one, I'm not going to participate in that system.

634
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: My dog is my closest non human friend, and I

635
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: want them to have the highest ality food, just like

636
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: I'm getting nice quality food. So livers, tongues, pieces that

637
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: maybe he's not using, he brings back and he he

638
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: feeds to his dog. And so some would say, well,

639
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: what's the difference between an edible part, like you said,

640
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: the liver, Why is it okay to feed that to

641
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: your dog but not the breast off of allard yeah,

642
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: now I've heard I've heard some people say. In fact,

643
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: the friend Andrew McKean, well, I'm sure we all know. Well, um,

644
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: him and I had this conversation one time around one

645
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: waste laws, because I'm like, is a universal one and

646
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: waste law something we should pursue, and he just it's like, man,

647
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: that's that's that's tough, and it's tough. And his point

648
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: was like, I think it could make criminals out of

649
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: the squeamish, Like it could make criminals out of folks

650
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,439
Speaker 1: who would prefer not to eat these things, Like I could,

651
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: I could see that. But I also like, even in

652
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: I was just reading them Montana, that's a little far fetched.

653
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: I mean, if you all a sudden said sure you

654
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: guys start eating hoofs and eyeballs. Yeah, but I mean

655
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 1: if you what around internal Oregan though, if you said

656
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: you must take the liver, you must take the heart,

657
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: you must take the paunch, like you could go far

658
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 1: that far. But in Montana they say for big game animals,

659
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: all four quarters above the hawk, including loin and backstrap,

660
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 1: fall into the category of of one waist. Hunters who

661
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: can't use the wild game meat could donate it to

662
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: a neighbor, friend or local food bank. And it's like,

663
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: are you donating it to your dog like man's best friend? Well, yeah,

664
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: is it any different? Is it any different? Let's say

665
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: you're not eating either anything you kill. Is it any

666
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: different to feed it to your dog or to dropped

667
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: off at the food bank. If we're talking about ethics

668
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: of you going out there and killing and then either

669
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: eating it yourself consuming it or not, does it matter

670
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: if you if it goes to the dog or go

671
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: to the food bank. Yeah, Because if it's a question

672
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 1: of just replacement, like you're you know, like this wild

673
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: game is replacing factory farms something or or store bought something.

674
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: In that case, there is a direct line too. You

675
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: know this this is still doing some good. Whether it

676
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: just really depends like to the level of what you're

677
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: doing it. You know, if you're flopping a backstrap down

678
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: for your dog, I mean, I got I gotta tell you,

679
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 1: you'd have to really give me, you have to really

680
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,919
Speaker 1: give me a good reason, yeah, that that's not going

681
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: into your belly or somebody one of your family members

682
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: or your neighbor or something. We'd have to have a

683
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: really deep conversation about that. Yeah, but see, I think

684
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: this is beyond that. I think it's more about, like,

685
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: is it ethically okay to shoot stuff and not eat it?

686
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: That's I think that's the core of Yeah, that's the

687
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: core of this question, and that was the core of

688
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: the first one too. I mean that, like, if they

689
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: were eating the crows, that email would have never came in,

690
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: that message would have never came in. And back to

691
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: the point of where ethics becomes a discussion of motives

692
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: and preferences. Is usually a discussion of how or mechanisms

693
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: and tools used. I think if it if both these

694
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: questions are a discussion of the ethics of shooting something

695
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: with no intend of eating it, most of society, even

696
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,439
Speaker 1: most of the hunting community, is going to say that

697
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: deserves some some scrutiny, Yeah, some ethical Look, yeah, I

698
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: think we could probably all just just not agree on that.

699
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: It's not universe. None of these things are universal. But

700
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: as if you're a non hunter or even an anti hunter,

701
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: I it is hard to sit in a room with

702
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: somebody who doesn't go hunting and say, I shot that

703
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: and killed it, but I didn't need it. I mean,

704
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna be in a fight or an

705
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: argument pretty quickly, and your rationalization is going to seem

706
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: whether it's altruistic or whether you think it's right, it's

707
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,479
Speaker 1: going to seem selfish regardless of how you talk around it.

708
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: Like there's just no way to get around that. Um coyote.

709
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we had we had the question

710
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: last time about shooting coyotes and what that means. I mean,

711
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: it's the same thing because you don't nobody's eating him. Well,

712
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 1: you know what my buddy Bendricks wrote in you know Bendricks,

713
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 1: he's Kyle eating fool. I've got his recipe, and uh,

714
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: next time I run across Kyle it shoot him a

715
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: reply about crows and it's gonna die and I'm gonna

716
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,399
Speaker 1: eat it. He was saying that back in the day,

717
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: he felt like some of our indigenous would that was

718
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: like the meal you served when guests were over wasn't

719
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: necessarily kyo, but to be dog or a wolf. And

720
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: some of the northern indigenous people of the North Marin continent, yeah,

721
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: they eate wolf all the time. Our friend Ryan Callahan

722
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: was very excited to try to cook and eat one

723
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: of his friends over there in Idaho shot a wolf recently.

724
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: It was very excited to get some of that meat

725
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: and cooking and eat it. I don't think he was

726
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 1: able to get it in time, but he was excited

727
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: to do it and see I would eat it. I'm not.

728
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: I don't have any problem with it. What like, how

729
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: do you how did we get to a point where society, like,

730
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: culturally we just don't think of these things as edible creatures,

731
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: like we just don't. Um, I speaking of the wolf issue. Um.

732
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: When Montana opened their wolf season, Steve called me and said,

733
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: because I told him I was going wolf onund and

734
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: he said, well, if you guys get one, let's cook it.

735
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: And this was way back before either of our platforms

736
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: where the size they are today. And so we hunted

737
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: for eleven days. We finally shot a wolf fair in

738
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: Montana and skinned it. Got it already. I'm you know,

739
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: put this thing in the freezer and Steph and I

740
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: are going to look like it's very red, very red. Yeah,

741
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: I mean not supid, better than a black bear? Yeah? Lightly? Yeah, No,

742
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: I mean obviously not like like like you don't have

743
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,959
Speaker 1: any store. Um. So I take it to the fish

744
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: wildlife and parks off us here in Montana. You gotta

745
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: bring them in and and they way, They checked the teeth,

746
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: everything else. And I'm talking to the biologist and the

747
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: biologist says, what are you gonna do with it? Well,

748
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 1: we're gonna eat it. And instantly the biologist says, whoa, whoa, whoa,

749
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: whoa whoa. Wait a second. Here, this biologist had worked

750
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: on the introduction team and had been monitoring the health

751
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: of all these colored wolves. The disease what killed a

752
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: lot of them, and this biologist said, I would strongly

753
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: recommend against that. What And I said, We'll just cook

754
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: it enough to get rid of whatever's there in. The

755
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: biologist said I would suggest not eating that, which struck me.

756
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: So about a month later, Steve reaches out to me

757
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: and says, what did you do with the wolf? I

758
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: told him what I just did do And I don't

759
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: think Steve was convinced that we couldn't cook it out

760
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: of that. So point is, how do we get to

761
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: that stage? I think our concern for human health sometimes

762
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 1: is so hyper sensitive that we'll take zero risk. And

763
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: as a think about wolves have been on this landscape

764
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: since forever, oh other people's prior cultures, prior societies didn't

765
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: have back to your point on as a luxuries didn't

766
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: have the luxury of Saint Juan. I'm I'm not going

767
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: to take that risk. They looked at and said, I'm hungry. Yeah,

768
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: I'm hungry. Right. I took a lot of I took

769
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 1: a lot of risk in trying to harvest whatever this animal.

770
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to eat this thing. I so ever, since that,

771
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: I've struggled with the idea that we didn't eat that

772
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: wolf at the recommendation of a biologist talk about and

773
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: that's just a comes back to the modern luxury we

774
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: we started around, you know were I I saw it

775
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: around Havelina like always, oh, skunk pig. You know that

776
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: the cowboys in Texas wouldn't even touch him, they kill

777
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: him on site, wouldn't even touch him, you know. When

778
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: I got down there, like, yeah, if you shoot a hobling,

779
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: just leave it, like I just put in the bushes.

780
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 1: And the first time I shot one, I like, why not,

781
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: just let's try to eat it? Oh they stink? Well yeah,

782
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: I mean I've shot a lot of stinky old Like

783
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: the smell of an animal doesn't translate. Always taste the meat.

784
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 1: And we cooked the first one shot we cooked up,

785
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 1: and I'm like, this is delicious. What are we talking about?

786
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 1: And every time that we would go back that same ranch,

787
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: I'd be excited to shoot one and skin and eat it.

788
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 1: And so I just perspective like cultural norms that' say

789
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: this thing is this way, and and it likely was

790
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: just the cowboys and the ranch hands there would shoot

791
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: him and smell them and not want to touch him,

792
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: and it and it grew from there. It's just like

793
00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: a cultural norm in Texas. Um. I'm you know, I

794
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: hate that that, you know, with our transplanting of wolves

795
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 1: and our fear of you know, disease, that we've probably

796
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: implanted that in our culture now that it's you know,

797
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: I know we have because nobody's sitting around going I'd

798
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: love to eat. Though somebody says I just ate a coyo.

799
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: You look at them like they're crazy. I'll take that

800
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: to the next step. My son just shot a bowl

801
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: out in Wyoming in the absolute core of their chronic

802
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:28,959
Speaker 1: wasting disease area. People have asked, that's so you're gonna

803
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: eat it. Yeah, I'm gonna eat it. You can get

804
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: it tested first. You're not gonna eat it, really there's

805
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: been no proven Yeah, but like the like Brian Richards,

806
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: the like own c w D in our country, might

807
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: be the most knowledgeable person about it. He says, you

808
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: hate to be the first one. I'm back to that

809
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: point of risks. Your risks are sold. Yes, I'm I'm

810
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 1: eating it. We've already started, so I'm far down that

811
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: path already. Would you go like full bone in neck,

812
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: groast like stuff like that? Obviously, when you're hunting in

813
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: a c w D endemic area, you're not gonna you

814
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: gotta leave the bones behind and yeah, yeah, and you're

815
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: not gonna have a spinal tissue or any of that

816
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: stuff that you bring with you. So I you know,

817
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: in some listening are probably saying, well, Randy, why did

818
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 1: you let a biology just talk to you out of

819
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:30,760
Speaker 1: eating a wolf? But yeah, everybody says you shouldn't eat

820
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: You should get every animal tested in a c w

821
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,800
Speaker 1: D area, and if it's positive, you should junk it. Well,

822
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons why I won't junk it is

823
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: where am I gonna junk it? In Montana? If it's infected?

824
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: If I go dump it somewhere, am I going to

825
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: spread a hotspot to c w D on the landscape.

826
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: Someone to say no, because it's not brain tissue landfills

827
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: where you're supposed to a lot of Yeah, there's get

828
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: a lot of folks are in the hotspots are like

829
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 1: dumpsters where you can write. Yeah, So I'm gonna take

830
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: my risk. Yeah, what the hell I this elk is?

831
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 1: It's if it's got c w D man c w

832
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: D O tastes pretty damn good. They're gonna come out

833
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: with the seasoning at CWD on it tastes delicious. All right,

834
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,919
Speaker 1: let's see what else we got. This one came this,

835
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: This one came in a bunch of different forms, and

836
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 1: I'll just read this one. Um, I must have got

837
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: fifty of these. So you're out hunting and this came

838
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: from Tommy Kato. You're so you're out hunting. The first

839
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: critter that walks by is limping pretty badly. It's obvious

840
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: that it was either on the losing end of a

841
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: fight or had survived another hunter's porch shop placement, and

842
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: the wound has healed. It's not the animal you're after.

843
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: Whether that would be a big giant buck is Steve

844
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: Ronella puts it or a dough but you have a

845
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: tag and can legally hunt it. Should you take that

846
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: animal understanding that there may be significant meat loss around

847
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: the old wound, and in an efort to spirit from

848
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: what would be a slow what could be a slow,

849
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: painful death. I think the answer is pretty cut and dry.

850
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: If a deer slash elk runs by in front of

851
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: you and was just shot and still bleeding, you finished

852
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: the job. But what about something that has healed but

853
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: the animal is clearly struggling as a result of the injury.

854
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: So there's lots to unpack there for sure. But Yanna,

855
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: you want to tackle Listen first, I can try. Um.

856
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: I don't think we hunters and people just happened to

857
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: be out in the field with a weapon need to

858
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: be playing uh guide out there and interfering. Um, you

859
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: can just la let nature be do its thing. And

860
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: I don't think you need to feel bad that there's

861
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 1: an animal out there suffering. We don't even know that

862
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: they actually do suffer. He might just be doing his thing,

863
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: And I think you can't in that moment probably make

864
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:01,399
Speaker 1: that decision, know for sure that if I shoot it now,

865
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,959
Speaker 1: it's gonna die now versus it dying in a week.

866
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: You don't know that there's just especially with the wound

867
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: that's healed over. Um, I did do it once I

868
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: saw one had been hit on the mule deer dough

869
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 1: had been hit on the highway ahead of me, and

870
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: I was in the middle of the road just like

871
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: barely could lift up its head, you know, And so

872
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: we pulled off. And that was back when I thought

873
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: it was a little bit more of a cowboy than

874
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 1: I actually was. I used to always have a pistol

875
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: kicking around pre kids, you know, just the pistols laying

876
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: around in the car. And so yeah, we pulled her

877
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: off into the ditch and uh, you know, shot her

878
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 1: and just left her. Um for that kind of reason, right, Um,

879
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: probably should have. I don't know. We've tried. I've tried

880
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: to salvage road kill meat and it didn't work out good. Um,

881
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: So I don't know if there would have been something

882
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: salvage or not. But yeah, I don't know. I don't

883
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: feel like it's really it's like not our ethical responsibility

884
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: to be out there like be like, oh that animals

885
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: suffering and now I'm gonna, you know, play god and

886
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: take it out of its misery. You see that a

887
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: lot though. You surely see that a lot. See that

888
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 1: around animals calling defences, You see that a lot around

889
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 1: road kill. Yeah, I feel like the hunter maybe feels

890
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: responsible for for that animal's life, having been directly involved

891
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: in the taking of some Yeah, I would agree with

892
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: what Jana said, But then I have to look at

893
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: when I was presented with that situation. Uh As in

894
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: New Mexico, You're a prong horn archery prong horn tag

895
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: in a unit that was considered by most to be

896
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 1: a very sought after trophy prong horn unit, And I'm

897
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: sitting in the blind and incomes this buck. That's it's

898
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 1: an average buck. It's not the anywhere near the top

899
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 1: end of what people think of when you say the

900
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: planes of St. Augustine in New Mexico. But it is

901
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 1: limping really, really bad. And at first, when I was

902
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: watching it way out there, I'm thinking about, O coyot

903
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,720
Speaker 1: will take care of that problem. You know that that

904
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: that antelope is not going to make it that long.

905
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: And then the thing comes walking into the waterhole, and

906
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: over the course of a half hour it takes for

907
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: that prong horn to get to the water hole, I'm

908
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: now faced. I'm face to face with this problem. I

909
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: I can't deny it. It's on camera, it's a film.

910
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to decide what I'm going to do

911
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: when this prong horn comes into that water hole and

912
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: he keeps coming, and it keeps coming, and it is

913
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: laboring hard, and I'll admit to having this dilemma of

914
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: do I shoot that prong horn or do I not?

915
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: And for me with archery, now, did you let me

916
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: ask you a question? Did you know? Did you Were

917
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: you thinking that it was a hunter induced injury or

918
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: I couldn't. It was limping severely. I had no idea

919
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: why I was limping. But it gets to the water

920
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: hole at twenty yards and you can see that this

921
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: is this animal is having a tough go of it,

922
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: and at that point in time, I said, you know

923
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: what I would. I was just making this decision of

924
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: do I want to keep hunting and try to shoot

925
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: one of these huge prong horn this area is noted for,

926
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: or do I want to shoot this animal? Just because

927
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 1: in that close twenty yard face to face engagement, it's

928
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: it's way less abstract than when you see it out

929
00:54:54,520 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 1: there at five hundred yards and it comes in waters,

930
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 1: and I said, you know what, and I shot it,

931
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: And to this day, I i've personally I feel good

932
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 1: about that. Now, what I've not felt good about it?

933
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: If I let it go away, I suspect it would

934
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: have went off and I would have not that much

935
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: different for it. But at that point in time, in

936
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 1: that situation, with that intersection of all these things going

937
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: through my mind, I decided to shoot it and got

938
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: over there and looked at had a deformed hoof, that's

939
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,399
Speaker 1: why it was limping. It had a hoof that looked

940
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:39,359
Speaker 1: like a big long elf slipper like Santa Elms, where

941
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 1: I had never seen that in a problem right before.

942
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,959
Speaker 1: So he'd figured out how to make a living out there,

943
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 1: even limping like that. So why was I so concerned?

944
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: I guess it's just all of us who hunt. I

945
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: hope we have some compassion for the animals that did us.

946
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: And I would say that was one of those instances

947
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: where my compassion or worry and maybe I'm putting some

948
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 1: human traits or characteristics or emotions to what that animal

949
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 1: was going through. Back to your point, you honest, maybe

950
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: it had it had Maybe it had really no worried

951
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: at all, just life as he yeah, and uh, but

952
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: as a hunter, I said, well, I think I'm gonna

953
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: take care of this until I shot it and it

954
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 1: went ten yards and into that story. Doesn't make me

955
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: any you know, any better internally for doing it. I

956
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 1: don't know. Make sure it tastes good. I know that,

957
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: but that really ends up being the motivation behind it, right,

958
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: is like how it makes you feel? Right, Yeah, that's

959
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 1: It's an interesting This is to me an interesting one

960
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 1: because if I if you were just a straight predator,

961
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:58,240
Speaker 1: you'd be like, oh, easy, yeah, easy, I'll take it done.

962
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: That's right. If you were hungry, right, you're like, oh,

963
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's the preferent one. Yeah, that's the

964
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: perfect one. It can barely get away, So you'd be

965
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: thinking about that. But at the same time, yeah, maybe

966
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 1: I don't even have to burn a bullet or walk

967
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: over and inform tackle it, like like, so you have that.

968
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: But they're the other part. I think why this and

969
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: this always comes up. This came up a lot in

970
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: my reading of all these readers. Listener and read your feedback,

971
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 1: is like, this is a unique situation for a hunter,

972
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: someone holding a hunting license, you know, possibly also a

973
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 1: game manager or whatever. But as far as like just

974
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: regular populace, this is a unique experience for a hunter.

975
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: And and if someone else, if you're out hiking and

976
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: you see a limping animal and you don't hold a

977
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,439
Speaker 1: hunting license, what are you going to do? Like there

978
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: is no responsibility other than keep on hiking. I think

979
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: it's unique to hunters to some degree. But as someone

980
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: who's had to make the decision in the last however

981
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 1: many years with two of my labs as they got older,

982
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 1: I I took it to the vet, and the vet

983
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 1: usually lets the pet owner make the decision, and I

984
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: felt even a more powerful dilemma there. Why because this

985
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 1: animal lived in my house, almost part of my family

986
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: for for years. But I think the rest of society

987
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: is faced with that decision with the other animals we love.

988
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: It was very heart wrenching to decide that Merle and

989
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: Copper had reached the point and now I'm I'm judge

990
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: and jury. Is Meral really feeling that bad that he

991
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: he should be put down? I had to make that

992
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 1: decision and ask him. Yeah. I still to this day

993
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 1: whenever I go out to his kennel and I see

994
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: his doghouse, there the thought entered my mind, Why well,

995
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: why was it? Why did I feel that I had

996
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: to intervene there? Why didn't I just let the natural

997
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 1: course of events take place. I think we as society,

998
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: whether we're hunters or not hunters, we take our societal

999
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: norms or our societal where he's and we place it

1000
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 1: into that situation. Yeah, I mean, and also as ya,

1001
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 1: he was kind of getting that, like, mercy is a

1002
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: virtue that we'd all you don't like to have, you know,

1003
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: And like, so I wish I could have asked merral

1004
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: his thoughts. Maybe he would have said, don't put me down, man,

1005
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: I'm still yeah here, or you're most late man sucks, Yeah,

1006
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: knocked me down. So I do think, uh, as we

1007
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 1: interact with all of the other living creatures of this society, Uh,

1008
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: we do put ourselves in those situations. Maybe we don't

1009
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: think of it in that context. I do think of

1010
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,439
Speaker 1: it in that in text with my my two dogs

1011
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 1: that had to make that decision with and it sucks.

1012
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 1: I've got it. My wife's got a sixteen year old

1013
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: dog now and it's staff and it's part partly blind,

1014
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: and yeah, we're gonna be faced with another decision the

1015
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: same as I felt some of those same emotions when

1016
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: that prong horn was coming into my blink, other than

1017
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 1: I intended to eat. Yeah, the big difference is that

1018
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: you don't really know it and you didn't eat it.

1019
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: But still the same, Like, that's still the same general

1020
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 1: quandary you struggle with the same thing. Have you ever

1021
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: had to do that? Yeah, I put a dog and

1022
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: he pops down. Yes, six years ago, is my wife's dog.

1023
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, because we had two folks in town, we

1024
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: had a big meeting here at the media to incorporated this.

1025
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: We had two folks in town who one April Fokey

1026
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 1: found out her dog had cancer and Brodie Henderson found

1027
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: out their dog was was going to be put down

1028
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: within days, just in and I've I've owned dogs, but

1029
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: not in my adult life. And so you see that

1030
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: hit people with you know, in Brodie's case and in

1031
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: April's case, they were both now having to make these

1032
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: decisions like when you know, when are we gonna do this,

1033
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: How are we gonna do it, How are we gonna

1034
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: tell the children, how we're gonna present this in some

1035
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 1: kind of positive way, because it has to happen. I

1036
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: mean that's your right. I mean, that's that's way heavier

1037
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: than should I shoot this limping antelope that's walking into

1038
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 1: the water. I've never I've never had I've never had

1039
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: the a wounded animal come across that I felt like

1040
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:33,919
Speaker 1: I could have shot and didn't. I've never had I've

1041
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: never had that. But I feel I really do feel

1042
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: like I agree with Joanni. I feel like that's well

1043
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: put the way that you What I would tell this gentleman,

1044
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: is is it's not your responsibility. You you have the choice.

1045
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 1: You bought a hunting lecesnse. You can choose whichever animal

1046
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 1: you would like like as long as you can effectively

1047
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: take it. So if that's what you choose, there's some

1048
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 1: virtue in that. Great. But if you don't choose that,

1049
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 1: don't feel guilty that animals are of natural world is

1050
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 1: a harsh, damn place, and so you're not making it

1051
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: any easier on anybody by but inserting too much mercy

1052
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: into it. Can I flip that question? Sure? On my platforms,

1053
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 1: on my website, my podcast, I threw it out the

1054
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: other way. You hit an animal, do you keep hunting? Yeah? Yeah,

1055
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 1: we had this. I had this discussion with Mark kennying

1056
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:33,440
Speaker 1: around white Tails yesterday and no is my answer. And

1057
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 1: there's been a if you throw that question out there,

1058
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: be prepared for about fo Uh. Yeah. I don't necessarily

1059
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 1: judge anyone by what they do or don't do in

1060
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:49,959
Speaker 1: that situation, but I think it's a worthwhile discussion. It is, Yeah,

1061
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 1: it very much is, because there's a lot of different

1062
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: situations that comment. We were talking yesterday about just the

1063
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: value of the knowledge you have to, like there was

1064
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: possibility of being a hunter. You have to have the

1065
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 1: knowledge to know did I kill this thing or not.

1066
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:06,919
Speaker 1: You have to be able to track it and read

1067
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 1: its blood. You have to be able to understand how

1068
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 1: it would use the terrain and where it might go,

1069
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 1: and property boundaries and all. It's gonna run on the

1070
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 1: public land, well, it's rifle season. It's probably gonna get

1071
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: probably gonna get dumped pretty quickly. Um. But I think

1072
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: that just all that to me goes back to if

1073
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: you've done your part by being proficient with your weapon

1074
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: of choice, understanding how to track it and recover an

1075
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 1: animal properly. That's really probably the first step in making

1076
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: that and answering that question, have you done all those things? First,

1077
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 1: Alaska for black beards, they make that decision for you.

1078
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: If you hit an animal, you're done. Well most a

1079
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,520
Speaker 1: lot of outfitters do, but a ton of outfitters, right,

1080
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 1: And so I threw the question out there, should that

1081
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 1: be a law for all species? Why? Why? Why did

1082
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: black bears? Wouldn't that make Alaska? Wouldn't that make us

1083
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 1: more ethical? Wouldn't that make like if you knew you

1084
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 1: had one arrow to shoot and that was it, and

1085
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 1: that was all you had, you shot it, it was over,

1086
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: and it hit the animal, it was over, wouldn't you

1087
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 1: be I would hope that, you know. I guess for me,

1088
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 1: do you do you feel like you should legislate something

1089
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 1: that you hope people would come to whatever? And it

1090
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 1: may not be this, but whatever the topic is, should

1091
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 1: you legislate that or should you let it get that

1092
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: that's the people of their own doing. That's a tough one.

1093
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,479
Speaker 1: Waste is like it should just be a societal norm, right, Yeah?

1094
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 1: And I have my way of answering that people have

1095
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: seen how I answer that. I give myself one animal,

1096
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: but if I hit it, i'm whether it's a superficial wound.

1097
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 1: I hunt that animal until I have to leave. If

1098
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: I don't find it, I'm done, or if I when

1099
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: I have to leave, you know, I'm not going to

1100
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: go look for another one. And some people have seen

1101
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: me do that and say, well, that's stupid, And I

1102
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: get that. You know, I'm afforded a luxury that a

1103
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 1: lot of people maybe aren't. I get the hunt a lot.

1104
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 1: My freezers seldom empty. Now if my freezer was empty

1105
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 1: and it's the last weekend of the rifle season and

1106
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: I'd hit one that I couldn't recover and here comes

1107
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: another one that that's a completely different contact of which

1108
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 1: that person has to analyze and make that decision than

1109
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 1: some guy like me who gets to hunt Tanna hunt's

1110
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 1: a year and I'm never going to be without wild

1111
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 1: game in my freezer. That's a big one. I mean,

1112
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, if for sure, if you're hungry, you're

1113
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 1: going to be making decisions like you're you were less

1114
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 1: concerned with the animal. Like if you're you're way less concerned,

1115
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 1: you're more concerned with your own personal need to get sustenance,

1116
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: then you are worried about is this right to do? Like?

1117
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 1: Then that that's the luxury we're talking about here, Like

1118
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 1: there's just if you can I think remove that would

1119
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 1: be like I have zero wild meat. I really don't

1120
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 1: want to go to the store. But then you can

1121
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 1: still say, hey, you can still go to the store.

1122
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 1: Don't remove your ethics because you don't have any while meat.

1123
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: You can still go and get it some chicken until

1124
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: you can figure it out. Um, And there's always other

1125
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: seasons of things to go and kill. So I mean

1126
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: you can still argue, hey, man, like that that's the

1127
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 1: game here. The fact is we don't have to hunt

1128
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: to eat. Yeah, that's the fact. Like we want to

1129
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: and we know it enriches us and does a lot

1130
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 1: of things for us, but we don't have to. And

1131
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 1: so I just feel like it like all these things

1132
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 1: come down to some of these things, not all of

1133
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 1: them come down to does it change our behavior in

1134
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 1: a positive way? Like if we want like one waste,

1135
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 1: is that way? You know? It's like that's a in

1136
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 1: some ways an ethical um construct we've build into a law. Yeah,

1137
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 1: or like does this activity make us behave more in

1138
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 1: a more positive way with the intended purpose while we're after,

1139
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: which is to kill something effectively quickly and get it

1140
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:07,960
Speaker 1: home and eat it. You know, I mean a lot

1141
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: of our regulations evolved from things that don't necessarily have

1142
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 1: anything to do with ethics. Yeah, they have to do

1143
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 1: with societal norms. Yeah, I mean clearly you talked about

1144
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: it on your platform. This is something that came up many,

1145
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 1: many times on this discussion. So it's something that a

1146
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 1: lot of people are thinking about and experiencing shortly, because

1147
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: that's you know, and it goes back to hunting with

1148
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 1: i'll you know a lot of the trends of i'll

1149
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 1: hunt with the boat during rifle season because it's I

1150
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 1: like the experience better. We're like, well, I don't know

1151
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 1: that the deer LEXI experience better. Like that's probably probably

1152
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 1: something to think about. We got a lot of people

1153
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 1: right in from Australia. I appreciate you guys down under.

1154
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 1: This was Alan Curtis. He says, why if hunters are

1155
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 1: after the quickest possible kill, does the head shots seem

1156
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 1: like an option that's not even on the table. Coming

1157
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 1: from Roux shooting in West Australia, I'm assuming kangaroo watching

1158
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 1: deer shot through the vitals has always been a curious point,

1159
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 1: with the head shot never never ever taken. What do

1160
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 1: you think head shots. I think the question starts is

1161
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:28,640
Speaker 1: our head shots are they actually more ethical? Well, a

1162
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 1: true head shot is probably the most ethical thing there is,

1163
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:35,720
Speaker 1: But a nose shot, or a jaw shot or an

1164
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 1: ear shot it probably if if you ask, the deer

1165
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 1: would be or the elk or whatever, would probably be

1166
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 1: the least ethical thing. Uh yeah, and I'm I'm assuming

1167
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:50,640
Speaker 1: we're all talking firearms of course, but um yeah, I

1168
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 1: mean it's it's a room for air situation. Yeah, it's

1169
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:57,160
Speaker 1: a much smaller target, is what it comes down to you. Um,

1170
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 1: our buddy Parker Hall who works for APHIST Wildlife Services, Um,

1171
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: those guys all shoot when they're out doing like big

1172
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: deer calls. It's always head shots. It's actually always the

1173
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 1: back of the head because you do have a bigger

1174
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 1: target there than if you take a profile shot on

1175
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:18,879
Speaker 1: the head. Um. But again, I mean those guys are

1176
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 1: pretty much a trained sniper, right And uh, I think

1177
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 1: for most of us just out in the field, it's

1178
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 1: like an elk at two or fifty yards. Man, it's

1179
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: like I'm definitely gonna choose the big trash can lid

1180
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 1: vital zone, the big more stationary target that doesn't know yeah, exactly. Um, Yeah,

1181
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:44,600
Speaker 1: you have ever hunt moves with any of the Athabaskans

1182
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 1: in Northern Alaska in Canada, m they had their head shooters. Yeah,

1183
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 1: they hunt moves with two forty three's and stuff that

1184
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:55,600
Speaker 1: we would uh, you know, most of us would be

1185
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 1: like what are you doing with two forty three or

1186
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,800
Speaker 1: seven m M O eight or whatever? Pretty much all

1187
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 1: head shots. They got a lot of moose meat to

1188
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: show for it. Yeah, and well, and again with that

1189
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:13,439
Speaker 1: animal doesn't have quite the flight instinct of deer and elk, right,

1190
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 1: you're probably getting a lot closer more often bigger head.

1191
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 1: Um doesn't. Moose doesn't move around too much a lot

1192
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 1: kind of stands there and can browse the same you know,

1193
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 1: patch of willows for hours sometimes. Yeah, well, it's just

1194
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: the end. It's the animal too. We shoot turkeys in

1195
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 1: the face all the time. That's kind of the that's

1196
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 1: kind of the point there. I've always and I argue

1197
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: I feel like when I'm turkey hunting this year, and

1198
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: that like a couple of years ago I experienced like,

1199
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, I really wanted archery hunt for turkeys, and

1200
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 1: I was in at the camp of all archery hunters

1201
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 1: for birds, and the wound rate was like one to one.

1202
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 1: Would one kill one? And I'm thinking we could have

1203
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,760
Speaker 1: had shotguns here and everyone we wounded would have been

1204
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 1: stone dead and there wouldn't be a giant rage size

1205
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 1: hole in its breast. Me. Yeah, I'm not archery hunted turkeys.

1206
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:12,599
Speaker 1: If I had that result to be pretty quick for

1207
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 1: me to I'm done. I'm done as of now, like

1208
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 1: I'm just done, you know, I'm done. But and there's

1209
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:20,680
Speaker 1: other things, like, you know, people think baiting bears is unethical,

1210
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,559
Speaker 1: but when it comes to shooting them, it's a whole

1211
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 1: lot easier if they're sitting in front of a barrel

1212
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 1: and selecting for bores rather than Souther's. Yeah, that I'd

1213
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 1: say bear baiting is probably one where this preference versus

1214
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 1: ethics things is so easy to distill it as just

1215
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:47,800
Speaker 1: about always that's a preference, not in ethics in the least. Uh.

1216
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 1: And I see how many people get themselves wrapped around

1217
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:54,640
Speaker 1: the act on that issue. And so when you go

1218
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 1: there and then people say, well, what about baiting for deer? Yeah,

1219
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 1: quite to say, I don't care if people bait for deer,

1220
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 1: if that's how they do it, and what they want

1221
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:07,400
Speaker 1: to do. It's not for me. Uh. I do worry about,

1222
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 1: you know, the disease bread things that relate to unnatural

1223
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 1: feeding of deer. But as far as a decision of

1224
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 1: how you're gonna take that deer, you know, I don't

1225
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 1: care if you bait him. My own care if you whatever. Yeah, well, yeah,

1226
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 1: it's personal preference. And you said that like the bare

1227
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 1: baiting of the deer baiting is is the thing where

1228
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:30,000
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, fair chase, that doesn't count. And I'm like,

1229
01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 1: if it's if we're just erasing that for a minute

1230
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 1: and saying, what's what's fair to the death of the animal?

1231
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:39,760
Speaker 1: It's coming in close, munching on some corn being stationary.

1232
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:43,840
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there stationary. It's I have a rifle. I'm

1233
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,240
Speaker 1: now shooting it in a in a better scenario than

1234
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:48,800
Speaker 1: if it was walking across the cornfield and I'm the

1235
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:51,599
Speaker 1: other side of the cornfield. Like, that's a more ethical

1236
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 1: way to kill it. Maybe not a fair chase way

1237
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:56,360
Speaker 1: to hunt it, right, So what are we out there

1238
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 1: really to do? Play at this? And there's another one

1239
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 1: I was just reading on here that I was like, man,

1240
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:02,640
Speaker 1: this is a perfect one. And this came in a

1241
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 1: lot just around I think, knowing that you were coming

1242
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 1: on Randy Debt. Guys are like I, I, you know,

1243
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 1: I go on an outfitted hunt, and I do a

1244
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 1: lot of public land hunting, and I feel guilty about

1245
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 1: these outfitted hunts, Like I feel like it's not fair, Chase,

1246
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 1: I feel like I didn't do any of the work.

1247
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 1: I feel so guilty about letting an outfitter do a

1248
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 1: lot of the heavy lifting for me that I'm never

1249
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:27,679
Speaker 1: gonna do it again. What's your thoughts around these ethics?

1250
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:30,600
Speaker 1: And like that's a preference, that that's completely it's not

1251
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 1: even close, it's completely preference. And this came in a

1252
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 1: lot around like people, I think because we've been we've

1253
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:40,559
Speaker 1: reinforced this public landowner, We've reinforced like this is the

1254
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 1: trend and this is the cool thing to do. People

1255
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 1: are feeling guilty about their way of doing it or

1256
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:49,600
Speaker 1: specifically in this case, an outfited trip. I don't know

1257
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 1: who's saying what man to make that people start to

1258
01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:55,679
Speaker 1: feel like that because I feel like it's sorry it happens,

1259
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 1: but if it happens by us, mosis though man, Like

1260
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:03,519
Speaker 1: I I am surprised how many because I started our

1261
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:08,200
Speaker 1: platforms in two thousand and eight, and the y is

1262
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 1: the same today. It's to promote self guided public land

1263
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 1: hunting and create advocates for that cost. It's never changed.

1264
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 1: It had nothing to do with anti public or anti

1265
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:23,599
Speaker 1: private land hunting or anti outfitting hunting. It's more it's

1266
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 1: more like, hey, by the way, you can also do

1267
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:29,679
Speaker 1: this out here, and it's not that hard. There's great

1268
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:33,759
Speaker 1: opportunities out here. You're paying into it anyway as well.

1269
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 1: So to that person's question, I struggle to even see

1270
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 1: that as a dilemma for somebody. I've been on three

1271
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:47,680
Speaker 1: guided hunts. I had a blast. Were they anymore gratifying

1272
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 1: or less gratifying when it came to the end result? Well,

1273
01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:55,160
Speaker 1: on one of them, I didn't even fill a tag

1274
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:59,439
Speaker 1: Arizona strip mealder back in two thousand seven, before I

1275
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 1: started our platforms. I got so much satisfaction out of

1276
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 1: that hunt that outfitter busted his ass, and so did I.

1277
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 1: And he told me, he said, I've never had a

1278
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 1: client that hunted all ten days of this season, but

1279
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:14,679
Speaker 1: if you want to, that's what we're gonna do. And

1280
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 1: we did. Is one of the funnest hunts. Just he's

1281
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: a great guy. Yeah, we're out on public land, the

1282
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 1: Arizona Strip here, it's not an exclusive place where you

1283
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 1: include other people. If people are that worried about oh

1284
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,360
Speaker 1: I didn't get out of it, you know someone else

1285
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:35,920
Speaker 1: did all the work, Well, that's a different issue. I

1286
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 1: don't think that's an ethics issue. That's just what do

1287
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:42,439
Speaker 1: I want out of my experience issue? And it's a

1288
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: preference thing. Like some people are very fine going to

1289
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 1: a trade show, meeting an outfitter, flying across the country

1290
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:50,639
Speaker 1: hunting with them, getting an animal, bring them me back.

1291
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 1: That is a fantastic way to experience hunting. Yeah, And

1292
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:56,760
Speaker 1: it's just different because the beauty of going on an

1293
01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 1: outfitted hunt man is that you're probably gonna get to

1294
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 1: hunt with somebody that is a real expert in hunting

1295
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:05,639
Speaker 1: that animal, and like the knowledge you're gonna gain there,

1296
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,200
Speaker 1: you want have to go and hunt the same amount

1297
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 1: by yourself for five to ten years, or you could

1298
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 1: just be with that one person for a week and

1299
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,639
Speaker 1: then gain all sorts of knowledge you know about that

1300
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 1: species and about that hunt and uh, yeah, come home

1301
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 1: with some stuff to eat. We've talked about that before

1302
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:25,840
Speaker 1: on this podcast, and I put it that. I put

1303
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:29,120
Speaker 1: it this way, like I want to hunt. I just

1304
01:16:29,160 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 1: want to hunt private land, public land, outfit, a non

1305
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:36,759
Speaker 1: outfitted friends, family, Like I feel like it's all great.

1306
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:39,680
Speaker 1: I will develop and have developed personal preferences around what

1307
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 1: I feel like it's the best version of it. But

1308
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:45,120
Speaker 1: that should not change anybody else's version of it. No,

1309
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,720
Speaker 1: And if someone wants to judge a person because of

1310
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: either there how they grew up hunting, the fact that

1311
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: just geographically maybe they're in a place where there's not

1312
01:16:56,040 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 1: lots of public land, or they enjoy hunting species, were

1313
01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: they by law you have to use an outfit or

1314
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Get over that quick. Judging people based

1315
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 1: on the I I think that kind of stuff is

1316
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 1: really damaging for hunting. You know, when I started our platforms,

1317
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:17,360
Speaker 1: I was caught really off guard when a lot of

1318
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:20,639
Speaker 1: people in the outfitting industry thought I was going after him. Yeah,

1319
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:23,240
Speaker 1: it was not that at all. I've never I refer

1320
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 1: so many people to outfitters who contact me and say, hey,

1321
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:29,680
Speaker 1: I love that outcome, but I live in Maryland and

1322
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:32,599
Speaker 1: I don't have the time or resources, and I send

1323
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,240
Speaker 1: them to I have all kinds outfitters I send people to.

1324
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 1: So I found it curious that people thought that somehow

1325
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 1: by promoting one type of hunting to make the an

1326
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 1: awareness that you can go do that. And it was

1327
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:51,400
Speaker 1: a response. It was my response to seeing people say, oh,

1328
01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:54,559
Speaker 1: I'll never be able to do that. Oh I can't

1329
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 1: afford that. Are you just promoting an inclusive version of hunting?

1330
01:17:57,760 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 1: That's what you're doing. It's not That doesn't mean that

1331
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:04,520
Speaker 1: something that's exclusive is inherently bad, man. It's so. Yeah,

1332
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: if a lot of people are thinking that or feeling that,

1333
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 1: I would encourage them to, uh, just go and hunt

1334
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:14,519
Speaker 1: and don't don't worry about that. And it's certainly not

1335
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 1: an ethical question. But I would say I didn't get

1336
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 1: that quite a lot in these in these readings. Um,

1337
01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:23,400
Speaker 1: here's one that that's connected to that. Corey uh Skassic says,

1338
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:25,839
Speaker 1: I went on my first elk in this past October.

1339
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:28,200
Speaker 1: It was through an outfitter and a drop camp on

1340
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:31,720
Speaker 1: public land. Is it unethical of me to hunt the

1341
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:35,320
Speaker 1: same trailhead next year using the information I've gained. I

1342
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:38,559
Speaker 1: wouldn't be back. I wouldn't go back to exactly where

1343
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 1: we went, but I stick to the same area, wondering

1344
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 1: what your thoughts are. I'm gonna leave that one to

1345
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:51,280
Speaker 1: be honest, because he's done a lot of helping people. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1346
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 1: we'd have that happen often. Um oh yeah, where you

1347
01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:59,400
Speaker 1: A couple of years later you glass of somebody run

1348
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 1: into money trail and you're like, oh, when I showed

1349
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:08,679
Speaker 1: you this, are we hunting together around here? Um? So

1350
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:13,439
Speaker 1: is it ethically wrong to do that? I think this

1351
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:16,759
Speaker 1: falls into the ethical I think this is an ethics question,

1352
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:24,639
Speaker 1: like what it's it's a intellectual property ethics question, I think,

1353
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of these in hunting. So because

1354
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 1: it seems like you're cheating a little bit, I guess

1355
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:37,720
Speaker 1: for for me, the answered no, I would never do that,

1356
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:42,920
Speaker 1: But I get that some people. Hey, that's part of

1357
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 1: what I thought I was paying for when I came

1358
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:47,920
Speaker 1: hunting with you. I wanted to learn a bunch of stuff.

1359
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:50,759
Speaker 1: I want to learn how to hunt elk or call elk,

1360
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 1: or how to what you need, what kind of camp

1361
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 1: you set up? And you know that if you don't

1362
01:19:57,040 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 1: like that, then you should have charged me more. Yeah,

1363
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 1: I mean with this with this fella here, and I

1364
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:04,040
Speaker 1: would say I would like, Corey, listen, if you got

1365
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:09,120
Speaker 1: to ask the question, you're a you know the answer, broly.

1366
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 1: If you're like, should I do this, that's probably let's

1367
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 1: probably back it off a little back from where we're

1368
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:20,599
Speaker 1: out because that means so he's and he's dancing around

1369
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:22,439
Speaker 1: it here and somebody's like, I wouldn't be all the

1370
01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:26,600
Speaker 1: way back in where we were, Like yeah, yeah, but

1371
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 1: but you're still using what you learned from that that

1372
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:32,840
Speaker 1: person to kind of compete with that person, you know. Yeah,

1373
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:35,080
Speaker 1: And there's really just like on a on an elk

1374
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:37,559
Speaker 1: hunt out west these days, as good as the hunting

1375
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:40,120
Speaker 1: is in so many of these states, you just don't

1376
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:42,679
Speaker 1: need to do that and don't even have to cross.

1377
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, use that to use what you learned for

1378
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 1: that outfit, or to go maybe in the same state,

1379
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:50,280
Speaker 1: maybe the same unit, but just not the same trailhead man, Like,

1380
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 1: just there's other places to go. I would say I

1381
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 1: think that because I mean, sure, like you'll be out

1382
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 1: there and it'll be kind of non at you a

1383
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:00,920
Speaker 1: little bit, but when you're walking down the trail and

1384
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:03,080
Speaker 1: you run into that guy, to that aufhitic guy, you're

1385
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 1: gonna feel like a real dick, you know, like, sorry,

1386
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:11,280
Speaker 1: so you had that happen a bunch of times? Yeah? Not.

1387
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:13,599
Speaker 1: I mean it was always like something I gut it.

1388
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:15,080
Speaker 1: But you know know the guy would come in and

1389
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:17,439
Speaker 1: be like, hey, I guess who I ran into, you know,

1390
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:21,720
Speaker 1: over on the MASA. Wow for me. Again, I don't

1391
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:24,240
Speaker 1: think it's ethic hoole, but I agree if you've been

1392
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 1: if you got to ask yourself that question, you probably

1393
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 1: know that. Yeah. That's like as a father. Now I'm like, listen,

1394
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:32,280
Speaker 1: if you gotta, can I have that? But I mean,

1395
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I don't even know this one.

1396
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:40,680
Speaker 1: I'd be interested to hear you guys thought on this.

1397
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:42,599
Speaker 1: And I read this, I first thought at that it's

1398
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:44,360
Speaker 1: not worth it, but then I read it again, I'm

1399
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:48,160
Speaker 1: like that, Um, this guy's names Tyler Ham, he said.

1400
01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 1: My buddy and I are Yukon resident hunters, and we

1401
01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:54,559
Speaker 1: hunt year round every weekend. We're pretty spoiled. We both

1402
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:58,400
Speaker 1: agree hunting Grid, we both agreed we hunt grizzlies because

1403
01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 1: we're scared of them. After being charged too many times

1404
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:04,960
Speaker 1: and having camps be destroyed by them, we are just

1405
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:08,479
Speaker 1: sick of them. What are your thoughts on that this

1406
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:10,960
Speaker 1: is from a person that has tried to co exist

1407
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:15,400
Speaker 1: with grizzlies on a weekly basis and had troubles. Mhm.

1408
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:19,679
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I think, yeah, I mean here here,

1409
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:21,839
Speaker 1: I think this goes back to like the British Columbia

1410
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 1: grizzly situation and maybe even some of our gers, the

1411
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:28,559
Speaker 1: situations in the Greater Yellowstone. This is somebody who's saying,

1412
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 1: I'm around these things every day and I'm killing them

1413
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 1: because I don't want him to eat me. M hm

1414
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 1: uh oh. In the Yukon, they you know, they have

1415
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:45,920
Speaker 1: different opportunities slash situations than than what we have. I

1416
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:49,200
Speaker 1: I've had my share Gridley bear encounters here in Montana.

1417
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:54,160
Speaker 1: If we had no limits or seasons on them, would

1418
01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:56,880
Speaker 1: I feel comfortable going and shooting them because I'm afraid

1419
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:03,599
Speaker 1: of them? No? Would I shoot at them because they're

1420
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:08,840
Speaker 1: messing around in my camp? Maybe? I know it's hard

1421
01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 1: for me to answer that one because of I'm not

1422
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:16,720
Speaker 1: in that situation. But yeah, I read that too, and

1423
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:19,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not sure where this falls, but it's interesting.

1424
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 1: It certainly is interesting because I'm never, hopefully never gonna

1425
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:24,680
Speaker 1: be in that situation. But um, I don't know if

1426
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 1: i'd blame him, I don't. I wouldn't call what you're

1427
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:30,840
Speaker 1: doing hunting called self defense. But I think he's saying

1428
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:33,760
Speaker 1: that he's haunting them. He's not saying he shoot them

1429
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:36,160
Speaker 1: just when there's a charge or they're in their camp.

1430
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:41,559
Speaker 1: He's developed this like rage where its getting rid of

1431
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 1: some bears, and maybe that's gonna make life easier on them.

1432
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:47,200
Speaker 1: But you've always but you've I've I've met many hunters,

1433
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 1: I would say a lot of hunters that have this

1434
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 1: like personal disdain for a certain animal. Boy, do I

1435
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:59,400
Speaker 1: hate X? If I see one trouble like, okay, well

1436
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:04,200
Speaker 1: that seems odd. So for this person's question, I guess

1437
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 1: take it to its eventual conclusion. So you're gonna go

1438
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:10,200
Speaker 1: remove all grizzly bears from the Yukon landscape just to

1439
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:14,400
Speaker 1: make it safe for you and others. Yeah, that's I mean,

1440
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:18,439
Speaker 1: that's where it eventually goes to. If if that is

1441
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:24,760
Speaker 1: the the motive for yeah, I'd say at the turn

1442
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:27,840
Speaker 1: of the century, we were killing animals that that in

1443
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:32,680
Speaker 1: mass for for reasons similar to this, but also just

1444
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:35,880
Speaker 1: for market reasons, and we we shut that off, like

1445
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:39,439
Speaker 1: that's what our value system and our model conservation kind

1446
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:41,680
Speaker 1: of like, okay, we got to do better than that.

1447
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:46,720
Speaker 1: I mean, grizzly bears are serious interruption to places I

1448
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 1: hunt and what you have to do to keep a

1449
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 1: clean camp, what you have to do. I hunt differently

1450
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 1: when I'm in grizzly country. This year we filmed two

1451
01:24:55,560 --> 01:24:59,160
Speaker 1: hunts here in Montana that we were in grizzly bears

1452
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:03,040
Speaker 1: like crazy. I didn't see them but their tracks, And

1453
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:05,519
Speaker 1: people said, well, I thought you always get to your

1454
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:09,559
Speaker 1: glassing spot before the sun comes up. Yeah. I do

1455
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:13,960
Speaker 1: accept in these places of grizzly country because one time

1456
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:17,360
Speaker 1: I walked right up on a grizzly bear in the dark.

1457
01:25:18,120 --> 01:25:21,759
Speaker 1: It was no one really hard looking down. What's that track?

1458
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:24,960
Speaker 1: Well then when it got daylight, I realized what that

1459
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:28,040
Speaker 1: track was because about three yards up the hill is

1460
01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:31,800
Speaker 1: the grizzly bear walking in front of me and whoa.

1461
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:34,800
Speaker 1: So does it change how I haunt and how I

1462
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:38,240
Speaker 1: have to run my camp and everything else? Yeah? It does.

1463
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:42,280
Speaker 1: Does it create some risk? Yeah? And I always always

1464
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:45,719
Speaker 1: preface this statement, but someday when I'm a grizzly bear turd,

1465
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:49,519
Speaker 1: everyone's gonna say, see, that's as you get. My dad said,

1466
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:54,200
Speaker 1: I never be ship well. But for me, I'm willing

1467
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:57,080
Speaker 1: to accept those risks on the landscape to know that

1468
01:25:57,120 --> 01:26:01,840
Speaker 1: grizzly bears are there. Yeah, just my personal I could

1469
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 1: see being in the Yukon and having a little slightly skewed,

1470
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:07,800
Speaker 1: but I still don't. It's not hunting with that. That's

1471
01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:10,800
Speaker 1: not hunting. It's not. It's a different when you have

1472
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:14,360
Speaker 1: like a vendetta against animal, it's not. That's not it. Man.

1473
01:26:15,280 --> 01:26:19,280
Speaker 1: The motivation becomes skewed, then you're in trouble. Um. You

1474
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 1: got to address the the waterfowl one, because this is

1475
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:25,680
Speaker 1: another one that came in a ton. This is just

1476
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 1: one from Josh Cook. He says, I was recently hunting

1477
01:26:28,160 --> 01:26:31,680
Speaker 1: geese with friends and ran into this ethics question. The

1478
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:34,559
Speaker 1: limit here in Colorado was five geeks per day per hunter.

1479
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:36,880
Speaker 1: We each had about three or four birds on the

1480
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:40,240
Speaker 1: ground when a huge flock worked in our spread. After

1481
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:42,559
Speaker 1: all the shooting excitement, we realized we had one. We

1482
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:45,560
Speaker 1: had shot one bird over our limit. How do you

1483
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:48,639
Speaker 1: handle this situation? This also came into the form like

1484
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:51,360
Speaker 1: what how do I make that decision? I've got I

1485
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:54,000
Speaker 1: can shoot two geese and there's seventeen of them, you know,

1486
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:57,719
Speaker 1: in our feet up in our decoys, and there's four shooters.

1487
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 1: What do we do? I think came in a lot

1488
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:02,840
Speaker 1: of ways. Um. I know we're not all seen as

1489
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:05,240
Speaker 1: expert water fowlers, but you know this stuff you keep

1490
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:08,840
Speaker 1: this to run into. Yeah, I think it's pretty simple.

1491
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:11,280
Speaker 1: You just stick to the ball and if you want over,

1492
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:14,360
Speaker 1: then you got to call a game warden and tell them. Right. Yeah,

1493
01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:16,960
Speaker 1: I think in that situation, if you did something that

1494
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:21,679
Speaker 1: happens you admit to, most game boardings will go back

1495
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:25,200
Speaker 1: further and say, all right, if if you know you're

1496
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:29,679
Speaker 1: that close to your limit, all right, are you gonna

1497
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 1: have a discussion among your group that hey, we're just

1498
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 1: gonna mp our our shotguns into this flock and one

1499
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:42,720
Speaker 1: guy yeah, and we'll worry about it later. Or are

1500
01:27:42,760 --> 01:27:45,120
Speaker 1: we going to make sure that we don't get in

1501
01:27:45,160 --> 01:27:47,800
Speaker 1: this situation and say, all right, we've got three left

1502
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:50,720
Speaker 1: in our limit, only one or two guys are going

1503
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:53,840
Speaker 1: to shoot when the flocks come in. And yeah, when

1504
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:56,640
Speaker 1: you're and when you're shooting multi species, it gets even tougher, like,

1505
01:27:56,760 --> 01:27:58,479
Speaker 1: oh I can shoot one more of these one more

1506
01:27:58,479 --> 01:28:01,160
Speaker 1: of these three come in and you shoot with a shotgun,

1507
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:05,719
Speaker 1: it's spray, it's some level. So this thing drops like, oh,

1508
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:08,000
Speaker 1: that's not right. And I think the other thing you

1509
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 1: can do is is reported, self report, and always self report.

1510
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:15,479
Speaker 1: And I'm with you, honest. Usually the most of the wardens,

1511
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:17,960
Speaker 1: I know, if you explain the situation, they'll say, Hey,

1512
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:20,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take your goose from you. But it's not

1513
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:22,920
Speaker 1: going to be the end of the world. Yeah. And

1514
01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:24,640
Speaker 1: but if you're out there doing it and you get

1515
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:27,000
Speaker 1: a reputation and somebody tells the game order, hey, I

1516
01:28:27,120 --> 01:28:28,960
Speaker 1: was hunting across the field from these guys and they

1517
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:32,120
Speaker 1: are their party hunting and they're shooting too many and

1518
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:34,800
Speaker 1: he comes over and catches you. Yeah, good luck with that.

1519
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:38,080
Speaker 1: Speaking of party hunting, party hunting is legal where I

1520
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:42,400
Speaker 1: grew up in Minnesota. Really yeah, yeah, Wisconsin to where

1521
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:45,360
Speaker 1: we hunted. Yeah, I think of it would have been.

1522
01:28:46,160 --> 01:28:49,360
Speaker 1: I never thought of when I was coming up. I mean,

1523
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:52,679
Speaker 1: this probably is not the right thing to say, but

1524
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:56,840
Speaker 1: my dad, but that's growing up hunting. Like, there's six

1525
01:28:56,840 --> 01:28:59,360
Speaker 1: of us here. If six deer come out, I expect

1526
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:03,240
Speaker 1: you're gonna dump every one of them. That was the expectation.

1527
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:08,080
Speaker 1: And if you go to that part of the Midwest,

1528
01:29:08,120 --> 01:29:11,559
Speaker 1: there's not even a second thought given to party hunting.

1529
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:15,600
Speaker 1: It's just the accepted norm. You say that out here

1530
01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:18,439
Speaker 1: in the West, where no state I know of allows

1531
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:22,840
Speaker 1: party hunting, Oh my goodness, you better get ready to

1532
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:25,679
Speaker 1: have yourself lit up. I've been in states where guys

1533
01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:29,439
Speaker 1: like archery hunters are damned because they're selective and the

1534
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:31,559
Speaker 1: in the rifle season, they're doing deer drives and stuff,

1535
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:33,439
Speaker 1: and they're just like these assholes over here with their

1536
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:35,920
Speaker 1: properties where they only shoot a couple of deer a year.

1537
01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 1: They're out there, they're creating sanctuaries where our deer. You know,

1538
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:41,160
Speaker 1: this deer won't come over on us because we chase

1539
01:29:41,200 --> 01:29:44,439
Speaker 1: them around to shoot them. And that's that's a real like,

1540
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:46,600
Speaker 1: that's a real pushing pool. And some of these, like

1541
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:49,240
Speaker 1: rural communities, I've seen it a lot of places, a

1542
01:29:49,240 --> 01:29:52,559
Speaker 1: lot of places. I guess one thing that bothers me

1543
01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:55,280
Speaker 1: and I may be expressed it too much in the

1544
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:59,559
Speaker 1: last two weeks is how judgmental we as a hunting

1545
01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:01,840
Speaker 1: community do you have become. And I don't know if

1546
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:06,880
Speaker 1: that's just based on when you when you're the minority.

1547
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:10,280
Speaker 1: You always feel you're under the microscope, you feel you're

1548
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:13,040
Speaker 1: under pressure, and so maybe you have a tendency to

1549
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:18,919
Speaker 1: lash out quicker or for reasons that maybe you shouldn't.

1550
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:23,559
Speaker 1: But I'll use an example. My son drew a great

1551
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:27,760
Speaker 1: late season out tag in Wyoming a week before Thanksgiving.

1552
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:30,160
Speaker 1: We go down there. The first day, we see eighty

1553
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 1: four bulls out on the winter range and he gets

1554
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:37,599
Speaker 1: to hunt one week a year because he lives in Oregon,

1555
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:39,840
Speaker 1: and he's just really busy at that point in his life,

1556
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 1: building his career. And these are and there there are

1557
01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:47,639
Speaker 1: some really really nice bulls, and he passed on every

1558
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:49,840
Speaker 1: one of them. He made a half hearted attempt to

1559
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:52,920
Speaker 1: stock one of them and it was a four yard shot,

1560
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:54,679
Speaker 1: and he said, no, it's not the shot I want.

1561
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 1: I think it was just wasn't He just wasn't ready.

1562
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:02,519
Speaker 1: The amount of people who have called him on our

1563
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:06,639
Speaker 1: YouTube channel a spoiled rotten Prima Donna bloss silvers boom.

1564
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:09,920
Speaker 1: But you know, I would have shot the first. And

1565
01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:14,400
Speaker 1: so then the next day he ends up shooting a bowl,

1566
01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:19,880
Speaker 1: a really nice bowl, and at the time he shoots it,

1567
01:31:20,080 --> 01:31:23,519
Speaker 1: we're sitting there and I'm like the two year old

1568
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:27,040
Speaker 1: black lab man. I'm in my tails wagon, I'm hooting

1569
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 1: and yelling. And he's a very deliberate person and he

1570
01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 1: takes this very very seriously, and when he shoots the bowl, uh,

1571
01:31:35,240 --> 01:31:38,600
Speaker 1: he always has this feeling of, oh my goodness, I

1572
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 1: just killed an animal. He's that's just who and how

1573
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:44,679
Speaker 1: he is where I'm over there hugging him, and I'm

1574
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:47,800
Speaker 1: so excited because of the you know, this is the

1575
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:52,960
Speaker 1: culmination and it's a great triple. The way people judge

1576
01:31:53,080 --> 01:31:56,280
Speaker 1: the fact that he wasn't doing cartwheels in the handstands

1577
01:31:56,520 --> 01:32:00,960
Speaker 1: was very interesting and peculiar to me. And then the

1578
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:07,360
Speaker 1: way that people call him a trophy hunter. Hey, yeah, yeah,

1579
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:09,479
Speaker 1: and that's fine. I mean that's part of what we do,

1580
01:32:09,560 --> 01:32:11,759
Speaker 1: you know, you take it as part of the territory.

1581
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:14,960
Speaker 1: But it gets me to the question of is it

1582
01:32:15,080 --> 01:32:18,679
Speaker 1: trophy hunting to say? And I hate the term meat

1583
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:21,720
Speaker 1: hunter versus trophy To me, that's the dumbest thing we

1584
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:26,040
Speaker 1: ever talked about. And when people, maybe I'm overly sensitive,

1585
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:29,519
Speaker 1: when people try to split the hunting community based on

1586
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:33,280
Speaker 1: some motive of trophy versus some motive of meat. I

1587
01:32:33,320 --> 01:32:38,040
Speaker 1: don't think there's a distinction there in most instances. Um.

1588
01:32:38,160 --> 01:32:41,880
Speaker 1: But it gets me to the point of a lot

1589
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:45,240
Speaker 1: of these things that people bring up as ethics or

1590
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:49,800
Speaker 1: ethical dilemmas is part of it. Just we as a

1591
01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:54,240
Speaker 1: community are becoming very judgmental from the from the from

1592
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:56,519
Speaker 1: a distance of what we see or what we hear,

1593
01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:02,639
Speaker 1: and that's just a natural response to how we feel

1594
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:07,919
Speaker 1: our pastime is under scrutiny or is it just inherent

1595
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:12,800
Speaker 1: in human nature that we judge people, And now we

1596
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:16,000
Speaker 1: have platforms by which we can express those judgments without

1597
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:19,719
Speaker 1: any context. And I think any behavior someone does, any

1598
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:23,519
Speaker 1: activity and hunting be prepared for that scrutiny if you

1599
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:28,800
Speaker 1: are inefficial. Yeah. And I think we put ourselves there,

1600
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, the three of us in this room and

1601
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:31,960
Speaker 1: a lot of folks that we hang out with put

1602
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:35,519
Speaker 1: ourselves out there too, you know. And then generally you're

1603
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:37,600
Speaker 1: doing it, you know, and you are doing it for

1604
01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:41,280
Speaker 1: good reasons, like you want to express ideas, you want

1605
01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:43,400
Speaker 1: to have an exchange, you want you want to put

1606
01:33:43,439 --> 01:33:46,120
Speaker 1: yourself out there too, to express what you feel is

1607
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:49,840
Speaker 1: important in trying to positively impact folks. I think that's

1608
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:52,439
Speaker 1: im you know, I know a lot of folks that

1609
01:33:52,439 --> 01:33:55,880
Speaker 1: would be deemed as influencers in our space, and I

1610
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:57,920
Speaker 1: can think of very few of them that I don't

1611
01:33:57,920 --> 01:34:01,080
Speaker 1: like as people. I just and I get it all

1612
01:34:01,080 --> 01:34:03,519
Speaker 1: the time. The ex person does it this way, and

1613
01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:07,439
Speaker 1: what a you know, what a douche or what I

1614
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:10,000
Speaker 1: can't believe this person would do this this way. I'm like,

1615
01:34:10,040 --> 01:34:14,680
Speaker 1: I've met that person, hunted with them, and what the

1616
01:34:14,840 --> 01:34:17,920
Speaker 1: funk are you talking about? Like it may come across

1617
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:20,760
Speaker 1: this way, but you're looking You're coming not from a

1618
01:34:20,760 --> 01:34:24,400
Speaker 1: place of like lifting that hunter up before he does anything,

1619
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:27,519
Speaker 1: or or he or she does anything. You're you're looking

1620
01:34:27,560 --> 01:34:30,519
Speaker 1: to judge. And that's where I I've done that in

1621
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 1: the past, and I'm trying to erase that from my

1622
01:34:33,720 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 1: vocabulary and my actions, like because I think it's just

1623
01:34:37,720 --> 01:34:40,000
Speaker 1: the problem I have is where we start. Like if

1624
01:34:40,040 --> 01:34:43,000
Speaker 1: you start from you click on a your Instagram account

1625
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:44,719
Speaker 1: or you click on your social media and you start

1626
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:49,880
Speaker 1: from like looking for for things to judge, You're always

1627
01:34:49,880 --> 01:34:52,360
Speaker 1: going to find something one and you're always going to

1628
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:55,639
Speaker 1: be like either angry or upset and what the hell

1629
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:58,519
Speaker 1: are you doing it for? You know? And it sounds

1630
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:01,120
Speaker 1: like you need to work on being a better human something.

1631
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:03,759
Speaker 1: But I think it's it's I don't know if it's everywhere,

1632
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:06,000
Speaker 1: but I think it's in politics to people get so tribal.

1633
01:35:06,240 --> 01:35:09,599
Speaker 1: But but I guess the point is all of these

1634
01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:18,240
Speaker 1: questions you got, are someone overlaying their perspective with however

1635
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 1: much or however little context and information on the actions

1636
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:28,960
Speaker 1: usually of somebody else. Yes, and that it were more

1637
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:32,120
Speaker 1: comfortable with the kind of the safe defense or the

1638
01:35:32,200 --> 01:35:37,440
Speaker 1: safe rationalis Oh, that's un ethical, and so ethics ethos

1639
01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:44,040
Speaker 1: becomes the spear to point and poke the other person with. Yeah,

1640
01:35:44,120 --> 01:35:46,240
Speaker 1: that's a great I mean, that's the greatest point of

1641
01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:49,880
Speaker 1: all of this is that, like you're not sitting down

1642
01:35:49,880 --> 01:35:54,000
Speaker 1: with yourself and asking yourself, am I ethical? Because that's

1643
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:56,160
Speaker 1: a pretty easy one. We already addressed it around Like

1644
01:35:56,200 --> 01:36:00,879
Speaker 1: if you're asking a question, probably already know the answer

1645
01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:04,519
Speaker 1: because that's a like that's an intrinsic like, that's the

1646
01:36:04,680 --> 01:36:07,639
Speaker 1: intrinsic way to handle these these questions. I'm asking myself,

1647
01:36:07,680 --> 01:36:10,160
Speaker 1: do I feel good about this? Is it legal? Okay?

1648
01:36:10,280 --> 01:36:12,120
Speaker 1: That's first, and then do I feel good about it?

1649
01:36:12,160 --> 01:36:14,800
Speaker 1: Do I feel right about it? And that's what you

1650
01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:18,679
Speaker 1: should do. Rather than is it legal, it was everybody

1651
01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:21,760
Speaker 1: else doing it? Is everybody else? Because that then it

1652
01:36:21,800 --> 01:36:24,760
Speaker 1: becomes extrinsic, and you're starting to do things for the

1653
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:27,799
Speaker 1: pleasure of others rather than for the satisfaction of yourself.

1654
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:32,000
Speaker 1: And that's what that's what worries me a little bit

1655
01:36:32,000 --> 01:36:35,200
Speaker 1: about not not these questions. These questions are fine. People

1656
01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:39,040
Speaker 1: wonder and they like to hear it discussed, but um,

1657
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:41,960
Speaker 1: and it may later help them have that intrinsic dialogue.

1658
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:45,679
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of people that are acting on

1659
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:49,320
Speaker 1: social media to to make others happy and to make

1660
01:36:49,360 --> 01:36:53,080
Speaker 1: it make what they do seem the right way. That's

1661
01:36:53,120 --> 01:36:57,559
Speaker 1: pretty easy to see once you look hard enough. I

1662
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:00,320
Speaker 1: can't imagine that some of the critics to them as

1663
01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:04,639
Speaker 1: you guys get on your platforms. Also, yeah, there's gotta

1664
01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:08,599
Speaker 1: be times where it's you know, is it ever tiresome

1665
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:10,640
Speaker 1: to yawning like you're you're close to it? Like, is

1666
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:13,280
Speaker 1: there ever a point where I feel like mine's pretty healthy?

1667
01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:15,840
Speaker 1: I think yours is probably pretty healthy too. I mean, guys,

1668
01:37:15,960 --> 01:37:19,040
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say the criticisms are kind of far and

1669
01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:23,240
Speaker 1: few between. Really, Yeah, yeah, um, I mean they do

1670
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:26,280
Speaker 1: come in if it's worthy. If it's a worthy criticism,

1671
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:29,519
Speaker 1: we address it. But if it's someone that's just you know,

1672
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:33,920
Speaker 1: blowing hot air man, then just like life's too short. Yeah,

1673
01:37:34,040 --> 01:37:36,960
Speaker 1: I got somebody to comment on my stuff. Get out

1674
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:41,680
Speaker 1: of Montana. That's a fair criticism. Yeah, your bastard, go

1675
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:47,160
Speaker 1: back to California. Stuff like that. You're like, oh, wow, okay,

1676
01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:49,200
Speaker 1: well you know what, he's probably been here three years,

1677
01:37:49,240 --> 01:37:54,599
Speaker 1: so he's Yeah, it's clearly bought in. Yeah, it's it's

1678
01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, we're humans. We're we're gonna have emotions and

1679
01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:03,280
Speaker 1: feelings based on what our life experiences are, and everyone's

1680
01:38:03,280 --> 01:38:05,800
Speaker 1: going to have a different way of expressing those. Some

1681
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:10,720
Speaker 1: won't or someone'll do it very articulately, and some are

1682
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:14,479
Speaker 1: just assholes. And there there are some people a very

1683
01:38:14,520 --> 01:38:19,680
Speaker 1: small percentage, and like you, honest, I'm thankful that of

1684
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:25,160
Speaker 1: my audience is just there for the positive experience. But

1685
01:38:25,200 --> 01:38:27,759
Speaker 1: there are some people who wake up with the motto

1686
01:38:27,840 --> 01:38:31,520
Speaker 1: of I'm not happy till you're not happy. Yeah, and

1687
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:34,639
Speaker 1: and then social media just tends to amplify whatever you are. Anyway,

1688
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:36,720
Speaker 1: if you're a super positive person and like you wake

1689
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:39,080
Speaker 1: up your life's great. I love my wife, I love

1690
01:38:39,160 --> 01:38:41,280
Speaker 1: my kids, I love my job. You're probably going on

1691
01:38:41,320 --> 01:38:45,360
Speaker 1: Facebook or Instagram going like great photo, dude. Like if

1692
01:38:45,400 --> 01:38:48,240
Speaker 1: you wake up you're like, oh my god, another day.

1693
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:50,479
Speaker 1: Like I'd like to drag somebody down to my level

1694
01:38:50,520 --> 01:38:53,559
Speaker 1: so I feel a little bit better. Like that's true.

1695
01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:55,200
Speaker 1: But I think in the hunting industry, just because we

1696
01:38:55,240 --> 01:38:56,960
Speaker 1: all care about it so much, it's highly it is.

1697
01:38:57,040 --> 01:39:00,200
Speaker 1: It bothers him. Man when I see I haven't had it.

1698
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:03,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure I will some day sometime, but I see

1699
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:07,120
Speaker 1: my friends in the industry getting it and I and

1700
01:39:07,200 --> 01:39:09,679
Speaker 1: it makes me cringe because I think it it starts

1701
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:13,519
Speaker 1: from a place of judgment, and boy, that's like somebody

1702
01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:16,640
Speaker 1: who's a mass of following or a mass to influence.

1703
01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:19,920
Speaker 1: They've done it for, you know, some reason, and normally

1704
01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:23,800
Speaker 1: it's pretty good reason. Um. However, it twists and turns

1705
01:39:23,840 --> 01:39:27,760
Speaker 1: in its story about Yeah, but I think all hunters

1706
01:39:27,880 --> 01:39:30,840
Speaker 1: um should just be willing to have the conversation, which

1707
01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:33,280
Speaker 1: I think is great because in your platform, Randy, and

1708
01:39:33,280 --> 01:39:36,280
Speaker 1: then media, your podcast and on this one, like, those

1709
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:40,200
Speaker 1: conversations are had all the time. And well, if we

1710
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:45,000
Speaker 1: aren't having those conversations ourselves, ah, one day we're gonna

1711
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:47,080
Speaker 1: wake up and the rest of society has had that

1712
01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:51,160
Speaker 1: conversation for us, and and we aren't gonna like the

1713
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:54,479
Speaker 1: conclusion they arrive at it. That that's my feeling. It's well,

1714
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:58,360
Speaker 1: you look at British Columbia, look at the grizzly bear situation, right,

1715
01:39:58,439 --> 01:40:02,559
Speaker 1: you know, like there's arguments on both sides, but somebody

1716
01:40:02,600 --> 01:40:05,200
Speaker 1: didn't get get to Vancouver and say like, hey, we're

1717
01:40:05,479 --> 01:40:09,000
Speaker 1: working on this. They're working on it. Even in my

1718
01:40:09,120 --> 01:40:13,719
Speaker 1: personal and professional life, I've had criticisms along the way

1719
01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:18,400
Speaker 1: that we're really helpful to me and I think maybe

1720
01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:22,679
Speaker 1: a better business person maybe made me a better husband,

1721
01:40:22,720 --> 01:40:25,640
Speaker 1: made me a better father. Hopefully they may not have

1722
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:29,679
Speaker 1: been what I wanted to hear at the time, but uh,

1723
01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:32,120
Speaker 1: and then I've also we've all had our share of

1724
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:37,400
Speaker 1: criticisms where it's like, you know what, thanks, but you're clueless.

1725
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:42,840
Speaker 1: You know, appreciate, appreciate that, but that's not how Yeah,

1726
01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:47,360
Speaker 1: you've my My statement that I've learned from my grandma

1727
01:40:47,960 --> 01:40:50,680
Speaker 1: is you've made mistaken me for someone who gives a

1728
01:40:50,720 --> 01:40:55,479
Speaker 1: shit about your opinion. I like your grandma right now, Well,

1729
01:40:55,560 --> 01:40:59,120
Speaker 1: my grandma had more one liners. I most of them

1730
01:40:59,120 --> 01:41:02,840
Speaker 1: would not be fair for a podcast, but um, let's

1731
01:41:02,960 --> 01:41:05,240
Speaker 1: end on this. I think this was probably a little

1732
01:41:05,320 --> 01:41:08,839
Speaker 1: lighter hearted, probably not even ethics, but we'll go there anyway.

1733
01:41:09,200 --> 01:41:11,960
Speaker 1: This guy named Mark Coleman. He says, when your wife

1734
01:41:12,040 --> 01:41:14,920
Speaker 1: spots a new piece of gear that you didn't really

1735
01:41:14,960 --> 01:41:18,600
Speaker 1: need but you did really want, and you bought that

1736
01:41:18,600 --> 01:41:22,320
Speaker 1: piece of gear in stealth mode, is it unethical to

1737
01:41:22,479 --> 01:41:32,320
Speaker 1: nonchalantly say, oh, I've had that for a while. It

1738
01:41:32,439 --> 01:41:36,040
Speaker 1: was someone who gived lots of marital advice, like Randy.

1739
01:41:36,040 --> 01:41:38,839
Speaker 1: When I read that, I'm like, oh, yeah, you honestly

1740
01:41:38,960 --> 01:41:41,080
Speaker 1: sat in on a few of my podcasts where I've

1741
01:41:41,080 --> 01:41:45,120
Speaker 1: given marital advice. Actually, Steve and I got interviewed by

1742
01:41:45,120 --> 01:41:48,559
Speaker 1: Pat Durkin for the n R, a magazine about marital

1743
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:51,000
Speaker 1: about marital advice because he'd heard so much of it

1744
01:41:51,120 --> 01:41:54,400
Speaker 1: on our podcast. That one's a pretty easy one. I

1745
01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:58,280
Speaker 1: had never lied to my wife, but I got a

1746
01:41:58,280 --> 01:42:00,519
Speaker 1: lot of good advice. If you guys want of another

1747
01:42:00,560 --> 01:42:03,720
Speaker 1: podcast about we probably should just how to make it

1748
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:07,080
Speaker 1: so that you're you and your spouse can reach your

1749
01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:11,400
Speaker 1: thirtieth wedding anniversary like mine will be hearing about seven

1750
01:42:11,439 --> 01:42:15,080
Speaker 1: weeks and get to hunt and fish as much as

1751
01:42:15,120 --> 01:42:18,000
Speaker 1: I do. Stop at your limited wallye. There you go.

1752
01:42:18,240 --> 01:42:22,800
Speaker 1: That help. Don't lie my My first, always, my first

1753
01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:27,080
Speaker 1: point of of advice is be more concerned about peace

1754
01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:33,360
Speaker 1: than justice. That's like the default, and lying usually results

1755
01:42:33,439 --> 01:42:40,000
Speaker 1: in neither justice or peace. More lying usually Yeah. Yeah.

1756
01:42:40,040 --> 01:42:43,960
Speaker 1: If you want to see the result of lying u

1757
01:42:44,160 --> 01:42:47,040
Speaker 1: and having to just cover another one, just watch the

1758
01:42:47,040 --> 01:42:53,919
Speaker 1: news every night. Yeah, he needs to be better at hiding.

1759
01:42:54,640 --> 01:42:57,800
Speaker 1: Does hiding new gear counts lying? No? No, if you

1760
01:42:57,840 --> 01:42:59,800
Speaker 1: don't ever just say you can't notnch long and be like,

1761
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:03,559
Speaker 1: oh that I never I never got that. So I've

1762
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:08,200
Speaker 1: always been the carrot the reward kind of person that.

1763
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:14,439
Speaker 1: Uh yeah. So for my wife, she gets the calendar

1764
01:43:14,680 --> 01:43:18,559
Speaker 1: anytime I'm not hunting. So the other eight months out

1765
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:21,080
Speaker 1: of the year, if my wife wants to go to

1766
01:43:21,120 --> 01:43:23,240
Speaker 1: the big city and do whatever, I'm gonna do it

1767
01:43:23,280 --> 01:43:25,719
Speaker 1: and smile like I'm having the time of my life.

1768
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:31,439
Speaker 1: And when we built our new house, uh, she wanted

1769
01:43:31,439 --> 01:43:33,880
Speaker 1: new furnishings. And I looked at that and this is

1770
01:43:33,920 --> 01:43:37,000
Speaker 1: the typical hunter angler. I'm looking at that thing, you know,

1771
01:43:37,120 --> 01:43:43,040
Speaker 1: many rifles and optics and stuff. Yeah, and so we

1772
01:43:43,160 --> 01:43:46,679
Speaker 1: came to an agreement, and not everyone's probably gonna do this,

1773
01:43:46,960 --> 01:43:51,280
Speaker 1: is that we would take fifteen percent on the budget

1774
01:43:51,280 --> 01:43:54,480
Speaker 1: that the house cost and she'd get brand new furnishings

1775
01:43:54,560 --> 01:43:57,439
Speaker 1: and we just treated as part of the package. But

1776
01:43:58,479 --> 01:44:02,000
Speaker 1: I didn't wanna if there's a charge on the credit

1777
01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:05,360
Speaker 1: card for a new whatever, I don't you know, I

1778
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:09,400
Speaker 1: I would expect the same accommodation. That's right, best deal

1779
01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:15,400
Speaker 1: I ever made. I just made a very similar It

1780
01:44:15,439 --> 01:44:17,800
Speaker 1: wasn't a deal in those numbers, but it was we're

1781
01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:20,599
Speaker 1: building a house, right, we had I had this dream.

1782
01:44:20,760 --> 01:44:22,800
Speaker 1: It's like, because my wife always says this ship like

1783
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:25,840
Speaker 1: she'll say it's my dream table. I'm like, I don't

1784
01:44:25,880 --> 01:44:28,680
Speaker 1: know what's that mean? A dream you've been dreaming of

1785
01:44:28,680 --> 01:44:31,719
Speaker 1: a table? Probably say like, oh, it's a dream curtain.

1786
01:44:32,080 --> 01:44:34,320
Speaker 1: It was like that's her way of saying, I really

1787
01:44:34,320 --> 01:44:37,120
Speaker 1: wanted this is what I want. And so I had

1788
01:44:37,160 --> 01:44:40,519
Speaker 1: this dream similar to have like a third car, like

1789
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:42,479
Speaker 1: a third garage where I would that I would build

1790
01:44:42,520 --> 01:44:45,559
Speaker 1: into like a butcher shop, and and we had that

1791
01:44:46,160 --> 01:44:48,479
Speaker 1: added onto the build, like that would that would happen?

1792
01:44:49,520 --> 01:44:52,040
Speaker 1: And I started thinking, like I started getting to the

1793
01:44:52,040 --> 01:44:54,000
Speaker 1: point where you know, my wife's moving to a place

1794
01:44:54,000 --> 01:44:55,840
Speaker 1: where I'm I'm gonna be going a lot. I'm gonna

1795
01:44:55,920 --> 01:44:59,600
Speaker 1: run off to go hunting. She wanted some better cabinets,

1796
01:44:59,640 --> 01:45:03,080
Speaker 1: some better flooring, some better this better that I'm like,

1797
01:45:04,479 --> 01:45:07,240
Speaker 1: I just said, honey, I'm gonna be gone a lot.

1798
01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:09,920
Speaker 1: You know this. You've been married to me. You know

1799
01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:13,519
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take that money from the from this third

1800
01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:16,000
Speaker 1: car garage, and I'm going to give it to you

1801
01:45:16,360 --> 01:45:20,000
Speaker 1: to use and whatever way that you want. So that way,

1802
01:45:20,040 --> 01:45:23,680
Speaker 1: when I'm gone during elk season, you can walk on

1803
01:45:23,720 --> 01:45:30,280
Speaker 1: those new floors, and when you're in the care nice

1804
01:45:30,400 --> 01:45:32,880
Speaker 1: kitchen with your half of elks brought out across the

1805
01:45:33,240 --> 01:45:37,559
Speaker 1: top butcher, and you'll be like, see told you. I

1806
01:45:37,600 --> 01:45:40,680
Speaker 1: was trying to establish this benevolence, but I don't know

1807
01:45:40,720 --> 01:45:43,120
Speaker 1: if it will work or not. Well, we we have

1808
01:45:43,200 --> 01:45:46,880
Speaker 1: another deal at our house that my wife and our

1809
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:50,439
Speaker 1: sister go on some vacations. Uh, and my wife and

1810
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:53,360
Speaker 1: I go do our thing too. But the deal is

1811
01:45:53,400 --> 01:45:56,400
Speaker 1: when she comes back from a vacation, I never look

1812
01:45:56,479 --> 01:45:58,479
Speaker 1: at the bank statement or the credit card and say

1813
01:45:58,479 --> 01:46:03,960
Speaker 1: a word yeah. And when I come back from a

1814
01:46:04,040 --> 01:46:08,040
Speaker 1: hunting trip or I do something. The words never said

1815
01:46:08,080 --> 01:46:12,240
Speaker 1: about what it costs. Now, if I started getting outside

1816
01:46:12,320 --> 01:46:17,559
Speaker 1: the side the bounds of or she did, I'm sure

1817
01:46:17,560 --> 01:46:20,599
Speaker 1: we'd have a discussion. But when you think about that,

1818
01:46:20,720 --> 01:46:25,360
Speaker 1: you know, when when this person talks about gear, you

1819
01:46:25,400 --> 01:46:29,680
Speaker 1: think about how many things in life really aren't that

1820
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:33,320
Speaker 1: important over arguing. And maybe this just comes with age

1821
01:46:33,560 --> 01:46:37,960
Speaker 1: or or length of relationship. Uh, those kinds of things

1822
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:42,200
Speaker 1: really aren't worth arguing over. They're they're often expressions of

1823
01:46:42,280 --> 01:46:47,320
Speaker 1: some other perceived unfairness, and it expresses itself. And you

1824
01:46:47,439 --> 01:46:49,880
Speaker 1: know that new piece of gear you got there, that's

1825
01:46:50,040 --> 01:46:52,720
Speaker 1: that's problematic and we need to talk about that. Well,

1826
01:46:52,720 --> 01:46:55,719
Speaker 1: there's a form of car they get, Yettie. A buddy

1827
01:46:55,760 --> 01:46:57,519
Speaker 1: of mine name is Andy Holland, who's one of the

1828
01:46:57,560 --> 01:47:01,200
Speaker 1: first employees ever Yettie. When he was there, c c

1829
01:47:01,360 --> 01:47:04,679
Speaker 1: O for a long time, UM or CFO, I'm sorry

1830
01:47:04,720 --> 01:47:07,160
Speaker 1: for a long time. He told me one time, he said, Well,

1831
01:47:07,160 --> 01:47:09,240
Speaker 1: we do. My wife and I we have an account

1832
01:47:09,240 --> 01:47:11,040
Speaker 1: that pays all the bills and takes care of all

1833
01:47:11,040 --> 01:47:13,639
Speaker 1: the living, and then each of us has our own account.

1834
01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:16,800
Speaker 1: Each month, we get a certain amount of money that's

1835
01:47:16,840 --> 01:47:19,960
Speaker 1: ours to spend on whatever we want, and neither of

1836
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:23,160
Speaker 1: us can criticize or even even at some point see

1837
01:47:23,360 --> 01:47:33,320
Speaker 1: Randy's playing out a large some So that's we ready

1838
01:47:33,360 --> 01:47:37,920
Speaker 1: got to talk about business opportunities. But Randy has a

1839
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:41,120
Speaker 1: large money clip of cash that he uses in the

1840
01:47:41,160 --> 01:47:44,719
Speaker 1: same way. I'm assuming because that's that's that's what Andy

1841
01:47:44,800 --> 01:47:47,800
Speaker 1: told me said. You know, she never touches my little kitty,

1842
01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:51,320
Speaker 1: and I don't touch hers, and it's perfect. Yeah, there's

1843
01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:54,040
Speaker 1: no way too. So this big wide und dollar bills.

1844
01:47:54,040 --> 01:47:55,519
Speaker 1: I don't know why I had it in my pocket

1845
01:47:55,560 --> 01:47:58,040
Speaker 1: today other than I I gotta be careful leaving it

1846
01:47:58,080 --> 01:48:01,360
Speaker 1: on the counter. My wife will grab something. But we

1847
01:48:01,400 --> 01:48:05,160
Speaker 1: each have our own allowance. The household budget gives us

1848
01:48:05,200 --> 01:48:09,439
Speaker 1: each and allowance each month, uh of dollars and anything

1849
01:48:09,479 --> 01:48:15,000
Speaker 1: that you can sell, sell, salvage, otherwise convert to money

1850
01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:19,720
Speaker 1: that's yours. And so I my one friend calls it

1851
01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:23,640
Speaker 1: his sock drawer money. Uh so this is my You've

1852
01:48:23,640 --> 01:48:26,040
Speaker 1: been saving yours for quite a while. Oh yeah, I

1853
01:48:27,000 --> 01:48:29,760
Speaker 1: So when I sell my muskrats or sell my beaver,

1854
01:48:30,400 --> 01:48:32,519
Speaker 1: when I do some trapping, that that out goes, that

1855
01:48:32,640 --> 01:48:37,880
Speaker 1: goes in there. When I recycle some old stuff, that man,

1856
01:48:37,920 --> 01:48:40,400
Speaker 1: I haven't used that for twelve years. Out to sell

1857
01:48:40,520 --> 01:48:44,320
Speaker 1: that when I sell some of my old decoys. I

1858
01:48:44,400 --> 01:48:47,160
Speaker 1: used to collect duct decoys. And every once in a

1859
01:48:47,160 --> 01:48:49,200
Speaker 1: while someone will say, I've heard you have this. Yeah

1860
01:48:49,200 --> 01:48:54,679
Speaker 1: I do. I'll pay you here you go green stuff.

1861
01:48:55,439 --> 01:48:58,160
Speaker 1: So that that's how it's solved. I don't know what

1862
01:48:58,240 --> 01:49:02,120
Speaker 1: my wife's equivalent of that is. It's something good. I

1863
01:49:02,160 --> 01:49:05,559
Speaker 1: don't rummage through her purse looking to see how much

1864
01:49:05,800 --> 01:49:10,920
Speaker 1: soccer o money she has. But so that's that's scow

1865
01:49:11,200 --> 01:49:15,639
Speaker 1: the waters at our house also, and that's also life

1866
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:20,720
Speaker 1: living living life with an accountant. Yeah, for he knows

1867
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:23,519
Speaker 1: that cash is the only way to really have money. Yeah,

1868
01:49:23,640 --> 01:49:26,080
Speaker 1: for those who didn't know. In my other life, I

1869
01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:29,439
Speaker 1: am a c p A. So yeah, maybe I approach

1870
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:31,760
Speaker 1: this differently than Yeah. I feel like three accounts a

1871
01:49:31,800 --> 01:49:34,200
Speaker 1: pocket full of cash is probably more. It's probably more

1872
01:49:34,200 --> 01:49:37,280
Speaker 1: beneficial for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is funny. I

1873
01:49:37,280 --> 01:49:40,880
Speaker 1: I used to use an outside production company instead of

1874
01:49:40,920 --> 01:49:44,200
Speaker 1: having all my own employees. And we're in Galina, Alaska.

1875
01:49:44,960 --> 01:49:48,760
Speaker 1: I tell the production company, do not let your employees

1876
01:49:48,800 --> 01:49:52,280
Speaker 1: show up with credit cards, send them with a Gobba cash. Well,

1877
01:49:52,320 --> 01:49:54,280
Speaker 1: I show up, I got four thousand dollars of cash

1878
01:49:54,280 --> 01:49:59,240
Speaker 1: in my pocket. And because I know what happened out there, well,

1879
01:49:59,520 --> 01:50:01,800
Speaker 1: whether aid lays us, we've got to go to some

1880
01:50:02,040 --> 01:50:05,960
Speaker 1: local person there. And hey, you know our flight now

1881
01:50:06,120 --> 01:50:08,680
Speaker 1: got too Fairbanks got canceled for three days because of

1882
01:50:08,680 --> 01:50:11,600
Speaker 1: the weather. We need a room. Yep, hundred dollars for you,

1883
01:50:11,680 --> 01:50:13,600
Speaker 1: hundred dollars for you, and you and you and you,

1884
01:50:13,800 --> 01:50:15,920
Speaker 1: so five hundred dollars a night to sleep in this

1885
01:50:16,800 --> 01:50:23,200
Speaker 1: really really rough place. And the production crew guys are

1886
01:50:23,240 --> 01:50:25,320
Speaker 1: pulling out their debit cards and credit cards, and this

1887
01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:30,200
Speaker 1: guy's rolling on the ground laughing. Sorry, boys, you can

1888
01:50:30,200 --> 01:50:32,720
Speaker 1: sleep out in the rain and the cold tonight. Uh.

1889
01:50:33,320 --> 01:50:38,120
Speaker 1: Fortunately I had my big water cash and bailed us

1890
01:50:38,120 --> 01:50:41,880
Speaker 1: out of that situation. But cash is a very handy

1891
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:44,400
Speaker 1: thing to have. Now. It's a generational thing though too,

1892
01:50:44,439 --> 01:50:48,920
Speaker 1: like cash is such a such a foreign object of millennials.

1893
01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:52,000
Speaker 1: It is my camera guys. Everyone on my crew is

1894
01:50:52,120 --> 01:50:56,200
Speaker 1: thirty or younger. They never have more than two dollars

1895
01:50:56,240 --> 01:50:58,320
Speaker 1: with them and probably feel like cash is a weird

1896
01:50:58,360 --> 01:51:01,080
Speaker 1: thing to happen. Yeah, and they told me they're using

1897
01:51:01,120 --> 01:51:05,120
Speaker 1: debit cards. First of all, if you've ever done anything

1898
01:51:05,240 --> 01:51:07,320
Speaker 1: related well, and you wouldn't if you were in a

1899
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:09,120
Speaker 1: c p A. But we have to go to these

1900
01:51:09,120 --> 01:51:11,760
Speaker 1: classes every year to maintain our certificate. One of them

1901
01:51:11,920 --> 01:51:16,920
Speaker 1: is fraud. Well, the number one compromised vehicle in the

1902
01:51:16,960 --> 01:51:19,800
Speaker 1: world is a debit card. If you're listening to this,

1903
01:51:19,920 --> 01:51:22,639
Speaker 1: do not use a debit card, not a credit card.

1904
01:51:23,040 --> 01:51:26,640
Speaker 1: A credit card is okay, a debit card, don't use it.

1905
01:51:27,479 --> 01:51:30,840
Speaker 1: And so my my guys are always using debit cards,

1906
01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:33,280
Speaker 1: and I almost threatened to fire them. I'm like, if

1907
01:51:33,320 --> 01:51:35,040
Speaker 1: you don't get rid of that debit card, I think

1908
01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:36,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to fire you because I've told you

1909
01:51:36,760 --> 01:51:41,040
Speaker 1: about ten times now. I'm gonna quietly slide mine into

1910
01:51:41,080 --> 01:51:45,599
Speaker 1: the trash camp. I would and ask any banker if

1911
01:51:45,600 --> 01:51:48,719
Speaker 1: they have a debit card. No, they all use credit cards.

1912
01:51:48,720 --> 01:51:51,520
Speaker 1: Why because they see the amount of fraud and compromise.

1913
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:55,320
Speaker 1: It happens people that have been act And when you

1914
01:51:55,360 --> 01:51:59,080
Speaker 1: think about it, when someone steals gets your compromises your

1915
01:51:59,120 --> 01:52:01,759
Speaker 1: debit card, there's dealing right out of your bank account,

1916
01:52:02,400 --> 01:52:05,479
Speaker 1: whereas if they compromise your credit card, they're stealing from

1917
01:52:05,479 --> 01:52:09,479
Speaker 1: the credit card company. Those companies are they've got people

1918
01:52:09,520 --> 01:52:11,880
Speaker 1: on staff to go and recover that and prevent that.

1919
01:52:12,880 --> 01:52:16,200
Speaker 1: Good luck recovering your bank account. They just got cleaned out.

1920
01:52:16,200 --> 01:52:18,719
Speaker 1: It should be changing live. None of this other ethical

1921
01:52:18,720 --> 01:52:21,720
Speaker 1: stuff we talked about helped you at all. This is

1922
01:52:21,720 --> 01:52:24,599
Speaker 1: it to your point? It is a generational thing. It

1923
01:52:24,680 --> 01:52:29,520
Speaker 1: drives me nuts. We'll stop out of place and uh,

1924
01:52:29,800 --> 01:52:31,360
Speaker 1: I'll ask one of the guys, hey, can you run

1925
01:52:31,400 --> 01:52:33,840
Speaker 1: in and crab that? And they don't have me cash

1926
01:52:33,880 --> 01:52:37,280
Speaker 1: with him. Oh, I handed my credit card. Now, that's fine,

1927
01:52:37,280 --> 01:52:40,200
Speaker 1: and take care of it. But I would feel if

1928
01:52:40,240 --> 01:52:43,000
Speaker 1: I leave the house in the morning, there's three things

1929
01:52:43,040 --> 01:52:45,200
Speaker 1: I look for. I have my phone, do I have

1930
01:52:45,280 --> 01:52:48,519
Speaker 1: my keys? And do I have my cash? Yeah? I'm in,

1931
01:52:49,120 --> 01:52:51,920
Speaker 1: I'm in. I want to be paying something. Roll around.

1932
01:52:53,040 --> 01:52:54,840
Speaker 1: Someone's going to see me out in the dark street

1933
01:52:54,920 --> 01:52:58,960
Speaker 1: here and roll me. Well, Randy carry's guns as well.

1934
01:52:59,080 --> 01:53:03,439
Speaker 1: That's right. There's nothing on this body that's worth dying for. Yeah.

1935
01:53:04,280 --> 01:53:06,080
Speaker 1: I don't leave my house without my guns, my big

1936
01:53:06,120 --> 01:53:09,800
Speaker 1: wads of cash, my jewelry. I should have said the

1937
01:53:09,840 --> 01:53:12,639
Speaker 1: other part. Yeah, if you went out in my car

1938
01:53:12,760 --> 01:53:17,320
Speaker 1: right now, I am heavily. I'm very able to protect myself.

1939
01:53:17,439 --> 01:53:19,960
Speaker 1: Let's put that way, all right. I think we got

1940
01:53:19,960 --> 01:53:22,680
Speaker 1: it all figured out right, Yehnny, we know we've got

1941
01:53:22,680 --> 01:53:26,120
Speaker 1: to come back, look a lot more to do. But

1942
01:53:26,200 --> 01:53:28,400
Speaker 1: thanks for everybody who will endeavored to send us these

1943
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:32,200
Speaker 1: ponderings and we uh, we appreciate it. Yeah, good questions. Yeah,

1944
01:53:32,280 --> 01:53:33,760
Speaker 1: there are some really good ones in there, and we'll

1945
01:53:33,840 --> 01:53:36,240
Speaker 1: we'll definitely do it again. So don't be shy send

1946
01:53:36,280 --> 01:53:38,599
Speaker 1: them along, even if we don't ask for him, because

1947
01:53:38,600 --> 01:53:41,240
Speaker 1: I know you're not. So thanks for Randy. Thanks for

1948
01:53:41,320 --> 01:53:44,400
Speaker 1: having me. Guys really appreciate it. Welcome to month, Welcome

1949
01:53:44,479 --> 01:53:48,240
Speaker 1: to Bosman. How long you've been here about two coming

1950
01:53:48,320 --> 01:53:52,439
Speaker 1: up on two and a half weeks, But you're old time,

1951
01:53:52,520 --> 01:53:56,000
Speaker 1: you're almost homes Yeah, it's it's honest, your honest, you've

1952
01:53:56,040 --> 01:54:00,559
Speaker 1: been here what five years now? He's an all crushed

1953
01:54:00,600 --> 01:54:04,880
Speaker 1: you could run for political office there long enough. No,

1954
01:54:05,040 --> 01:54:07,879
Speaker 1: I have two weeks and I'm feeling I'm feeling settled.

1955
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:10,720
Speaker 1: I'm feeling settled. As my wife said, when I look

1956
01:54:10,720 --> 01:54:14,240
Speaker 1: at the mountains, I feel good like I love you, honey. No.

1957
01:54:14,439 --> 01:54:17,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for what you guys produce. Thanks for the content

1958
01:54:17,080 --> 01:54:20,439
Speaker 1: you're doing, and I follow a lot of your stuff.

1959
01:54:20,920 --> 01:54:23,880
Speaker 1: You guys have really good discussions across all your platforms,

1960
01:54:23,880 --> 01:54:28,120
Speaker 1: and I think the value of having platforms in our

1961
01:54:28,160 --> 01:54:32,360
Speaker 1: world media platforms. Maybe I'm wrong in this, but I

1962
01:54:32,400 --> 01:54:36,839
Speaker 1: feel strongly that when you are blessed with the trust

1963
01:54:36,880 --> 01:54:39,680
Speaker 1: audience is placed in you, you need to use it

1964
01:54:39,800 --> 01:54:43,840
Speaker 1: to explore some of these issues, to have these discussions.

1965
01:54:43,840 --> 01:54:47,000
Speaker 1: And if you don't, if you're if you shy away

1966
01:54:47,080 --> 01:54:50,000
Speaker 1: from these discussions, and I don't care if it's politics, ethics,

1967
01:54:50,440 --> 01:54:55,120
Speaker 1: whatever it is, are you really giving back to your

1968
01:54:55,160 --> 01:54:59,840
Speaker 1: audience or are our pastime of hunting to the degree

1969
01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:03,440
Speaker 1: you could, yeah, we're Maybe that's judging too much, but

1970
01:55:03,600 --> 01:55:07,880
Speaker 1: I hope people feel encouraged to to have these discussions.

1971
01:55:07,920 --> 01:55:10,400
Speaker 1: They're never easy. You're gonna get some criticism no matter

1972
01:55:10,440 --> 01:55:14,080
Speaker 1: what you do, but it further stuff. Yeah, I think

1973
01:55:14,120 --> 01:55:18,000
Speaker 1: we're all happily centrist and we're happily pro nuance here.

1974
01:55:19,760 --> 01:55:23,880
Speaker 1: I like that it's uncomfortable, but usually if you go

1975
01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:27,280
Speaker 1: and take uncomfortable things all you come out the other end.

1976
01:55:27,760 --> 01:55:30,400
Speaker 1: Or I'm happy to have anybody that listens, that thinks

1977
01:55:30,440 --> 01:55:31,800
Speaker 1: the way I do about that you know, and the

1978
01:55:31,800 --> 01:55:33,640
Speaker 1: way that you do, and the way that Yanni doesn't.

1979
01:55:33,640 --> 01:55:36,200
Speaker 1: Steve Ornella and everybody else. I mean, I'm happy that

1980
01:55:36,200 --> 01:55:39,880
Speaker 1: there's people out there that share those values, take the

1981
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:42,160
Speaker 1: time to listen to these types of things. Well, thanks

1982
01:55:42,160 --> 01:55:44,040
Speaker 1: for having me. Guys really appreciate it. Thank you, Randy.

1983
01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:50,480
Speaker 1: We appreciate you. That's it. That's all episode number forty

1984
01:55:51,560 --> 01:55:56,040
Speaker 1: in the books. Thanks to Randy and honest but specifically Randy,

1985
01:55:56,120 --> 01:56:00,080
Speaker 1: because he doesn't work here, Jannest does. And but of

1986
01:56:00,160 --> 01:56:03,400
Speaker 1: those guys, it couldn't be more sound minds to to

1987
01:56:03,480 --> 01:56:07,240
Speaker 1: take on some of those questions. And I really admire

1988
01:56:07,360 --> 01:56:10,000
Speaker 1: and I am a fan of Randy Newberg and what

1989
01:56:10,040 --> 01:56:13,880
Speaker 1: he does for our community. Um, I can't say enough

1990
01:56:13,920 --> 01:56:16,440
Speaker 1: about him and his willingness to come and sit and

1991
01:56:16,440 --> 01:56:18,480
Speaker 1: spend two hours' acting around with us when he's a

1992
01:56:18,560 --> 01:56:22,680
Speaker 1: very busy, manful lot to do. So thanks to Randy

1993
01:56:22,800 --> 01:56:25,640
Speaker 1: for that. Thanks to all of you for submitting your questions.

1994
01:56:25,680 --> 01:56:28,360
Speaker 1: We got way more than I ever thought possible. So, UM,

1995
01:56:28,360 --> 01:56:30,680
Speaker 1: if we didn't get to yours and didn't get your

1996
01:56:30,680 --> 01:56:33,160
Speaker 1: response to on on Instagram, thank you, thank you for

1997
01:56:33,200 --> 01:56:36,080
Speaker 1: sending these questions in and we'll probably do this again. UM,

1998
01:56:36,120 --> 01:56:39,800
Speaker 1: so tell your friends if you don't mind UM about

1999
01:56:39,800 --> 01:56:42,120
Speaker 1: this one. What else what else, what else? Well, you

2000
01:56:42,160 --> 01:56:44,120
Speaker 1: could also go to the Mediator dot com. You could

2001
01:56:44,120 --> 01:56:45,960
Speaker 1: definitely do that. You can read some stories that are

2002
01:56:45,960 --> 01:56:47,640
Speaker 1: there and things of that nature, and then you can

2003
01:56:47,680 --> 01:56:52,480
Speaker 1: subscribe to the newsletter that's there. You could visit the

2004
01:56:52,640 --> 01:56:55,880
Speaker 1: store and there's some Hunting Collective merge in the store,

2005
01:56:56,280 --> 01:56:59,560
Speaker 1: so then you could he's supporting a nice pro nuance

2006
01:56:59,640 --> 01:57:04,800
Speaker 1: anti bullshit t shirt. Definitely do that. Um Or you

2007
01:57:04,840 --> 01:57:08,879
Speaker 1: could just get a wonderful hoodie with the Hunting Collective

2008
01:57:08,960 --> 01:57:12,000
Speaker 1: podcast logo on the front. It's pretty cool, it's gray,

2009
01:57:12,080 --> 01:57:15,480
Speaker 1: it's nice. I like it. Um There's other things you

2010
01:57:15,520 --> 01:57:18,640
Speaker 1: can do. There's Mediator apparel, there's wine to Hunt apparel.

2011
01:57:19,000 --> 01:57:20,720
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of stuff in there that you can

2012
01:57:20,760 --> 01:57:25,400
Speaker 1: go and do at the Meteor dot com. If there's

2013
01:57:25,400 --> 01:57:28,400
Speaker 1: anything else, I'm forgetting. I'll probably get to it next

2014
01:57:28,400 --> 01:57:32,680
Speaker 1: time for episode forty one, but until then, thank you,

2015
01:57:33,120 --> 01:57:35,920
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. Bye.