1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Welcome to another episode of The Mark Moss 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Show where we talk about bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, and the decentralized revolution. Today, 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,239 Speaker 1: I am bringing you a very special guest, maybe one 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: of the definitely one of the bigger names, and I 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: don't know about the biggest name, but one of the 6 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: bigger names in the bitcoin space. Uh. He's a good friend, 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: someone I hang out with quite a bit. I'm proud 8 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: to call him a friend, UM, and he is one 9 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: of the best thinkers in the space. During the Bitcoin Conference, 10 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: he had a special event where he sat down with 11 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: one of the biggest thinkers in the world. Today, I'm 12 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: talking about Jordan Peterson, and I'm also talking about Robert 13 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 1: breed Love. So I'm sitting down with Robert breed Love. 14 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: He gotta sit down with Jordan Peterson and man, the 15 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: conversation was unbelievable, and I'm having him on the show 16 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: to talk to you today about what money is and 17 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: so much more. Let's go ahead and jump in um 18 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: with Robert right now. Hi, Robert, thanks for joining me 19 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: again today. Or is a pleasure sitting down with you. 20 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: I've been looking forward to it, um, Mark has not 21 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: been that long, so nice to see you again for 22 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: what's been a week. Well it's been a while since 23 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: I've had you on the channel. But yeah, we got 24 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: to hang out quite a bit last week, which was 25 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: which was awesome. I was loft hanging out with you. Um, 26 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: so we were hanging out at Bitcoin two thousand twenty two. UM, 27 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: let's talk about that just for a minute. What did 28 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: you think about the conference? Just I guess from a 29 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: high level, Well, this year was definitely a lot bigger. 30 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: Let's take away. UM, I think it was really well done. 31 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: I like to layout inside the convention center. Um, it 32 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: was a bit confusing, I think at the beginning, just 33 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: trying to get the lay of the land. Yeah, once 34 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: you knew everything was it was a nice flow. Um. 35 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: The experienced me was very similar to last year. Actually, 36 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: like almost everywhere I went, I'm just getting mobbed with love. 37 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: You know, people are like thank you for whatever the 38 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: Sailor series or this thing you wrote or you know, 39 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: this interview of yours. What I saw, I was overwhelmed 40 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: because I thought back at Bitcoin twenty twenty one, that 41 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: was kind of an anomaly year. You know, Bitcoin was 42 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: way up, you know, the show was new, and that 43 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: was my experience at Bitcoin people mobbing me with love, like, 44 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: oh surely bitcoin, this one will be more calm now, 45 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: calmed down, chilled out because bitcoin price isn't moving as much. 46 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: I've been putting out a lot of work, but you 47 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: just don't. You and I have talked about this. You 48 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,559 Speaker 1: put out a lot of work sort of in isolation, 49 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: and you don't really see the impact on people's lives, 50 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: but you see it through social media a little bit, 51 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: but to see it in person, it's a whole different ballgame. Um, 52 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: I think the vibe was tremendous. I mean, I'm more 53 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: bullish on the bitcoin community than ever. People are just 54 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: this this transformation that occurs personally, psychologically, financially. You know, 55 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 1: it really seems to be like rippling through everyone and 56 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: hopefully changing lives. It was better, So it was it 57 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 1: was really nice to see that phenomenon up closing personal again. Yeah, 58 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: I also think about, um, you know, when you're investing adventure, 59 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: and I know you had your fund going for a while, 60 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: so like you know, when you're investing adventure, Um, typically 61 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: those are you know, six seven, ten years before you 62 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: see those types of deals come to fruition, and so 63 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: like how do you track that and like you tracked 64 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: the user growth and you can track the development on 65 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: the network. I think about those two metrics, and so 66 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: if you look at the growth the trajectory of the 67 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: audience growth, right, So from fiftudred people one was I 68 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: don't know, ten thousand people in this year was like 69 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: thirty thousand people, right, yeah, yeah, were you at nineteen 70 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: yea in San Francisco? That was like it was small 71 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: people maybe, and then they I guess ten extra one 72 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: or we last two years so was off because of 73 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: the COVID Yeah, and so yeah, I think it was 74 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: thirteen or fourteen thousand people last year and then this 75 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: year was what thirty five thousand? Yeah. Um, They've built 76 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: a hell of a build this. You know, it's kind 77 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: of centered on that one giant event per year, and 78 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. I am sort of regretful, Like 79 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: I missed the last day of the conference because I 80 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: had the Peterson event that night. I started to lose 81 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: my voice in the morning, so I was really worried 82 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: about going to the conference and not being able to 83 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: speak during the interview. Ended up skipping that last day 84 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: and just resting my voice and then the day after 85 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: they had the comed Comedians and Music Festival, which I 86 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: actually wanted to attend, but um, you know, we're doing 87 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: other events and all that that day. So just we're 88 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: hanging out of Michael Peter's IM sorry, we're hanging out 89 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: into Michael Saylor's house, having and that was a really 90 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: good time. That was a highlight for me to you 91 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: just to get together with you know, so many people 92 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: that we were close with and just had a little huddle. 93 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: It was. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah. 94 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: And then I mean talking about you know, Michael Sailor, 95 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: just like that, the high level of people that are 96 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: at those events, so like again from it was pretty 97 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: like hardcore bitcoiners um and this year we had billionaires 98 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: obviously Michael Sailor, senators there, Cynthia Loomis, and then I 99 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: mean Jordan Peterson. I mean, there's probably nobody bigger in 100 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: the thought leader space today than that guy, right, yeah, 101 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I certainly think so it's pretty clear my 102 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: my perspective on Peterson, He's definitely the greatest impact on 103 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: my thinking for a living person. You know, maybe Mesas 104 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: and some of these other guys are are up there 105 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,679 Speaker 1: as wealth in terms of people that are past. But UM, 106 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: it was an honor, you know, it was an honor 107 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: to put this event together. I really enjoyed our conversation. 108 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: Um he I appreciate his skepticism and his thoughtfulness, you know, 109 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: just drinking the kool aid. You know, he's really trying 110 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: to look come at it from multiple angles and and 111 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: take the argument or you know, the bitcoin thesis apart. 112 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 1: And that's ultimately what makes it so valuable is trying 113 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: to do Um. He's an extremely fast thinker, fast talker. 114 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: You know, he's got a lot of intellectual horsepower. Yeah, 115 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: up with even But I thought his fireside chat with 116 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: Terror was great. That was more, I guess, a bit 117 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: more surface level in terms of his thinking about macroeconomics 118 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: and bitcoin. And then that night, UM, which was our 119 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: first in person for first live event, first interview I've 120 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: done in front of a live studio audience. We had 121 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: when you were there in the front row and we 122 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:33,119 Speaker 1: had seven people there, I think, Wow, isn't that many? Dang? Yeah? Deep, 123 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, I tried to I tried to skip the 124 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: surface level discussion. It was go straight to the bottom 125 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: of the rabbit hole. And you know, he's so fascinating. 126 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: You can talk about anything and you can tie it 127 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 1: back to really these different psychological dimensions and you know, 128 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: human development. We talked a lot about game theory and 129 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: how humans sort of bootstrap morality through play and nature 130 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: of voluntary versus involuntary games, and we're tying all these 131 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: things back to money and bitcoin. You know. That's my 132 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: littles to us for an interview is I just try 133 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: to I really I'm trying to learn. I call it 134 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: learning out loud. So I want to have conversations that 135 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: are interesting to me, that are pushing my own understanding 136 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: where I'm at the edge of my understanding, and hopefully 137 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: my guest is as well. And we're producing something novel 138 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: and useful in that in that dialogue, and I think 139 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: we did it. You know, the feedback from the live 140 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: event was was wonderful. Um, we're working on releasing the 141 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: video now in the next few days. We're just running 142 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: it through the edit flow and making sure it's tight 143 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: and so we'll see what the world thinks. I thought 144 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: it was amazing the amount of work that you did 145 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: in advance to like really put the questions in order 146 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: and build you know, kind of from that from that 147 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: first principle's level so highly anticipated for you to release that, 148 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: I'll watch it again. Everybody else shout as well. But 149 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: um so, if we look at the Bitcoin you know, 150 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: like I said, if we look at the Bitcoin conference, 151 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: the growth, the growth of the trajectory of the audience, 152 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: the amount of people that have come there, like the 153 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: mind share that's coming over the space, it's like pretty amazing. 154 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: It's definitely one metric that I'm looking at. One of 155 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: the things that I saw at the conference was I 156 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: worked at news desk. I know you worked at as well. 157 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: For a couple of days. I was. I was working 158 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: on Industry Day, which was the first day, and there 159 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: was a lot of people from the industry, and they're 160 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: talking about, you know, we need regulations and we need clarity, 161 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: and they kept saying, we need to push for mass adoption, 162 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: push for mass adoption, push for match it up mass adoption. 163 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: And I thought, uh, I was like, you know, my 164 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: contrary and take is that we don't need to push 165 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: for mass adoption. One like Alex Fetski says, the masses 166 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: are always wrong. But I was just saying that Per 167 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: two thou eighteen FED report of Americans don't even have 168 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: four hundred dollars for an emergency. So I'm like, those 169 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: people don't even need to worry about like bitcoin or crypto. Um, 170 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: what's your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean I'm sort 171 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: of I guess I'm in alignment in a way that 172 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: I've always thought of bitcoins adoption would progress according to 173 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: the minority rule. And we you know, I've and some 174 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: about this. This is a concept I picked up from 175 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 1: teleb But just this idea that the preferences of an 176 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: obstinate minority typically can influence the preferences of the whole, 177 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: as long as the whole doesn't there's there's sort of 178 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: indifferent to what. Most people don't care, like they want 179 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: their money to just work, right, I want to wipe 180 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: the card and put the thing in the account and 181 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: know that it's there. Um. But if you developed this 182 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: and Spetzky, it's a lot of these guys refer to 183 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: the remnant, right, the the focused, intelligent minority that's just 184 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: stacking SATs to all kingdom. Come it almost it almost 185 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: starts to create this growth dynamic and Bitcoin where it's 186 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: rules get imposed on others, like you have to to 187 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: protect yourself from inflation, or to preserve wealth across time, 188 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: or you know, any number of reasons. There's a million 189 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: use cases for bitcoin that you end up having to 190 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 1: use this neutral settlement layer. And I mean that's the 191 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: path that I think it follows. Is bitcoin just continues 192 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: to monetize. Um. There will always be the die hard stackers, 193 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: and when they're just taking new supply off the market, 194 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: bitcoins just got the you know, the cell press run. 195 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: Bitcoin is going to be diminished more and more along 196 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: with this new issue in ste to do to the having, 197 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: which is going to drive price higher and higher and higher, 198 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: and eventually that draws in the masses, right, the masses 199 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: typically just chase the price. So I mean I'm focused 200 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: on that. I think in my educational efforts to I 201 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: call it, you know, raising an army of educators. And 202 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: you see, you had this brilliant quote one time, the 203 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: setting brush fires and the minds of men something like that. 204 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: That captures it as well. It's like, let's just give 205 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: people the fundamental view on money, on property, on government, 206 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: on the nature of our socio economic systems of human cooperation, 207 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: and then let them decide. I'm not here to prescribe 208 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: the coin in one. I'm just trying to ask big 209 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: questions and dig deep and hopefully find some some useful 210 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: knowledge in the process. But I think it will ultimately 211 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: be that that small cadre of people that will really 212 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: just by holding such a secure footprint on the network 213 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: and not accepting any inferior savings technology, not bending to 214 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: any regulation or any threat um, that's what's gonna trigger 215 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: this hyper bitcoinization type of event that we that we 216 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: all look forward to. All Right, you're listening to the 217 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: Mark mo Show. We're talking about bitcoin. We're talking about 218 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: the decentralized revolution. I'm sitting down with Robert Breedlove from 219 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: the What Is Money Show? Right now, don't go away, 220 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: we have a lot more to go when we come back. 221 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: All right, welcome back. You are listening to the Mark 222 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: Moss Show. I'm in the studio today joined by Robert Breedlove. 223 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: He's host of the What Is Money Podcast? You can 224 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: find them on podcast or on YouTube. One of the 225 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: greatest thinkers. Today we're talking about his conversation with Jordan 226 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: Peterson at the Point conference and What is Money. Let's 227 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: pick it back up here. Yeah, so your show What 228 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: Is Money and then what is money? Show? W I 229 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: am has been basically trying to answer that, like what 230 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: is money? And yeah, the majority of people just have 231 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: no idea what money is? And so then back to 232 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: like needing to push for adoption. It's like those people 233 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: don't even know they have a problem. Um, I say, Uh, 234 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: in marketing, we'd say it's much easier to sell food 235 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: to someone who's starving than to convince them of their 236 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: starving first and then try to sell them food, right. Uh. 237 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: In Venezuela where their currency is blown up, you don't 238 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: have to convince them that they should get out of 239 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,079 Speaker 1: that currency and into something else, um, you know, or 240 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: in Canada when they got kicked out of the banking 241 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: system or their bank accounts are about to get seized, 242 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: you don't have to convince them. Um. So a lot 243 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: of it's just like bringing the attention to that. But 244 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: you've focused on this what is money um, and a 245 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: lot of people just don't know that. I guess if 246 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: we dig into that, I know you've outlined a bunch 247 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: like the certain attributes of money, UM, tell tell us 248 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: what those are real quick? Yeah. So I think when 249 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: you there's so many answers to this question. I literally 250 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: have an ongoing blog series right now. I've answer to 251 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: that question that both I've either discovered in reading or 252 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: I've maybe sort of put together through my own thinking, 253 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: or I've just been given by guests. You know, a 254 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: lot of guests come on the show and they have 255 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: some unique answer to it. Um. But it's really interesting, 256 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of people. It seems like 257 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: it's resonated with the audience too, because a lot of 258 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: people didn't notice that it was such a fundamental question. 259 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: But like now that you asked it, I've heard all 260 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: these different answers, Like it's one of those really deep 261 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: questions like what is truth or what is value? You know, 262 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: it's something. Um, it's just a rabbit hole, I guess, 263 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: and a nutshell. But for me, my original, the original 264 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 1: drama is beating a lot was Okay, you want to 265 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: understand bitcoin, the coins and novel innovation. It's new. It's 266 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: very complicated. You could lead with the technical explanation of bitcoin, 267 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: you know, like cryptography and distributed computing networks and game 268 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: theory and all of this, but I think that for 269 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: most people they just kind of have that glazed overlook 270 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 1: when you take that approach. So my realization was, as 271 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: you said, if you don't know what the problem is, 272 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: then you can't really put bitcoin in the proper context. 273 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: So I said, I tried to dispense with this technical 274 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: explanation of bitcoin as a modern technology and really take 275 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: the opposite tack entirely. Let's forget all that and just 276 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: go to the very beginning, the first principles or whatever 277 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: of human history and say, what is money? How did 278 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: we get money? Um? We all know that gold became 279 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: money historically. And I put people like Ray Dalio in 280 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: this group, like, he gets money very deeply relative to 281 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: most people, but when he looks at gold, his explanation 282 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: for why gold became money is it has intrinsic value, 283 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: and that's a failing in my opinion. There are specific 284 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: properties that human beings demand and money, and I think that, 285 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: for me is the bottom of that question. It's like 286 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: just explaining the properties people want in the money. Um. 287 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: And I've put it like this before. We often talk 288 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: about goods and services, you know, distinguishing say the physical 289 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: good a shovel, for instance, versus the service which is 290 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: digging holes. But it's ultimately what we're all ultimately looking 291 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: for services, even the good itself. We only demand that 292 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: good because the services it renders to us, or the 293 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: the it can accelerate us towards the achievement of our aim. Right, 294 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: I can dig holes faster with a shovel than with 295 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: my bare hands, So you start to think of it 296 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: in those terms. Then it's all about services even money. 297 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: So it's like, what services do people demand from money? 298 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: Another way of saying that is what properties to people 299 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: demand from money? And again this is a question if 300 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: you ask guys like Edstrom. He wrote a book on 301 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: this with fourteen properties of money. You will read the 302 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: Austrians they have seven, they have ten. It just depends 303 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: what you read. I tried to narrow it down as 304 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: much as possible and I got it down to five. 305 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: And this was influenced by an excellent book actually that's 306 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: available free online titled Honest Money by Gary North. Gary 307 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: North just passed away. He's like a Christian libertarian philosopher. 308 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: It's a free pdf on mesas dot org. You can 309 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: also buy an Amazon it. He narrowed it down to 310 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: you um divisibility, durability, recognizability, portability, scarcity, and when I 311 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: first got into this bitcoin media explanation of like, you know, 312 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: talking about what is money and explaining explaining the money 313 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: in a historical context. That was adequate to put bitcoin 314 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: in and have bitcoin be understood. And I think that chain, 315 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: that that explanatory chain was really successful actually because then 316 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I get it. Gold was the most divisible, durable, recognizable, portable, 317 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: scarest thing we had. That's why we demanded it as money. 318 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: That's why it became money. You also understand what gold lacked, right, 319 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: which was portability. Very hard to move gold across space, 320 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: even though it holds value well across time, which explains 321 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: why we abstracted gold into a paper currency. Right, we're 322 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: in we're augmenting its transactibility across space, increasing its portability. 323 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: But that introduced the problem, right, we now need to 324 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: trust the guy that's warehousing the gold not to over 325 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: issue the paper claims on gold. That was the ultimate 326 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 1: honey pot for governments and central banks. Historically it's become 327 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: the most corrupt institution in the world, as we've talked 328 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: about that nauseum. And so it explains all that. Just 329 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: look at the properties of money. And then finally, if 330 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: you evaluate bitcoin through that lens of the properties of money. 331 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: You see that it's the most perfect money we've ever had. 332 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: All Right, I just want to let you know real quick. 333 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: You are listening to the Mark Moa Show and in 334 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: the studio with Robert Breedlove. He's the host of the 335 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: What Is Money Show and podcast. Um, we have a 336 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: lot more to discuss. I have a whole list of 337 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: questions you do not want to miss. So don't go away. 338 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: We are back. All right, welcome back. You are listening 339 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: to the Mark Moss Show. I'm in the studio today, 340 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: joined by Robert Breedlove. He's host of the What Is 341 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: Money Podcast? You can find him on podcast or on YouTube. 342 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: One of the greatest thinkers. Today we're talking about his 343 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: conversation with Jordan Peterson at the Bitcoin conference and what 344 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 1: is Money? Let's pick it back up here. So if 345 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: we if we trust the money with the best reputation. Okay, 346 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: that's one thing which I guess has been the dollar. 347 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: I mean it was gold obviously, and then it's the dollar. 348 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: But then think about this, so then, um, what is 349 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: the dollar? Right? The dollar is really this is something 350 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about quite a bit. The dollar really 351 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 1: is a payment network is what it is, right, It's 352 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: the way, it's the easiest way, the best way, the 353 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: best reputation to move money around the world. And so 354 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: of course Russia, I didn't just get their dollars sees, 355 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: they didn't even have that many dollars. They got their 356 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: f X accounts because they had a bunch of different currencies, 357 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: They got their f X reserve sees, and they got 358 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: kicked out of the Swift system, the payment network. And 359 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: so not only did they kill the dollar, which you 360 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: had the best reputation, but also the payment network, which 361 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: is actually a pretty big deal when you think about that. Yeah, absolutely, 362 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: and you know, I would say, first and foremost, the 363 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: dollar is a derivative of gold. That's the only reason 364 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: we ever had a paper currency anywhere ever, was to 365 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: facilitate the portability of precious metals, whether gold, whatever it was. Obviously, 366 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: due to technological realities and or people's ignorance of the 367 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: financial system and money, we got to nineteen seventy one 368 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: right where we broke that peg permanently. We've never looked 369 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: back um and shortly after that, right, because you know, 370 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: to use a sailor aphorism, money as energy, right, it's 371 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: economic energy, right. The dollar was pegged to the energy 372 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,199 Speaker 1: expenditure necessary to produce gold. That's what secured its supply. 373 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: When we break that peg, you can't leave the dollar unpegged. 374 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: So very quickly it was repegged black gold, the petro dollar. 375 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: So that's now what the United States it's it's the 376 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: point of leverage the United States uses to impose this. Uh. 377 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: I think it's glad Seemed typically calls it the global 378 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: dollar hedgeminy um, and it's you know, we forcibly denominate 379 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: oil contracts and oil or in dollars rather etcetera, etcetera. 380 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: That's also changing now, like as a result of the 381 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: Russia thing, I think they're selling oil and rupees and 382 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: other currencies. So that whole the unipolar world we had 383 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: around the dollar, it's being ripped apart in real time. Um. 384 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: And it's hard to say where that goes, but you know, 385 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: you you bring up swift to Russia getting kicked off 386 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,479 Speaker 1: that Ultimately it's just a messaging system, right, You're just 387 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: messaging amounts of money across this network. There's not any 388 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: final settlement occurring in terms of like gold being transmitted, right, um, 389 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 1: And so all again, all these things like it's just 390 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: another big billboard for bitcoin. So you've got to kick 391 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: us off the global trade network effectively by kicking us 392 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: off the SWIL system. Is there an alternative messaging system 393 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: we could use to conduct this international trade? All turns 394 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: out there is yeah, And that's where I'm to turn off. 395 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: That's where I'm going. I'm trying to use your technique 396 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: to build this conversation. So if if the dollar was 397 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: the money with the best reputation, but really it's the 398 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: payment network. To your point, it's like a messaging network. 399 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: What's the best reputation. But now we found out that 400 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: well that you can all use the network if we 401 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: say you can use the network, because it wasn't just 402 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: dollars to my point about Russia, it was the network 403 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: they got kicked off of. Now you mentioned Ray Dalio 404 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: and his research is amazing. He's he's forgotten more than 405 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: I'll ever know. I mean, his research is unbelievable. I 406 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 1: just finished his book and I've done some videos on it, 407 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: The Change World Order. I forget the title. Um, I 408 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: just finished it and it's an amazing book. Everyone should 409 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: read it. And then you mentioned the word multipolar I 410 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: don't know if you've been reading some of the work 411 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: of Zoltan Posar that he's been putting out recently. He's 412 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: been talking about this breton Woods three UM and talking 413 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: about how uh I don't know, have you heard about 414 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: that Sulton Poston. It was recommended to me. I haven't 415 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: read it yet. I mean the big level is that 416 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: breton Woods obviously went to a gold standard that was 417 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: still commodity money, right, so the world had been on 418 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: commodity money. One broke the gold standard and we went 419 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: to what he calls inside money, so basically bank treasuries. 420 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,719 Speaker 1: So no more commodity money. Now it's fiat money, and 421 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: that we've been in that since nineteen seventy one. So 422 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: he calls that breton Woods too. And now that agreement 423 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: was broken, the payment network was shut down, uh February two, 424 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: and now we're going back to breton Wood three, which 425 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: is a commodity money again, so now everybody's hoarding natural resources, 426 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: natural gas, oil, etcetera. UM. But one thing that um 427 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: Daio and pose are both seemed to miss. And of course, 428 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: you know, I've been talking about these three revolutionary cycles, 429 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: so we have to look at this like political revolution cycle, 430 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: which Dalyo Nails. I mean, his research is amazing and 431 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: shows how we have the US is a declining superpower 432 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: and China as a rising superpowerty Nails is down from 433 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: like a political standpoint, and even uh he talks about 434 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: these eighty year financial revolutions, these long term credit cycles. 435 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 1: But what he misses and what pulls our misses is 436 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: the technology revolution piece and so on about a fifty 437 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: year time frame. We have a technological revolution, not a technology, 438 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: but a revolution that changes the course of humanity. And 439 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: and they didn't bring that in. And so we have 440 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: this technology. And to to the point, if the payment 441 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: network is broken, we have a new payment network. And 442 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: here's something I've been thinking about. So UM in the 443 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: United States, we had the telephone and all throughout the 444 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: US we have telephone polls and telephone wires running everywhere, right, 445 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: And that was put up about a hundred years ago. 446 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: And the Internet UM scaled pretty quickly, the adoption scale 447 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: pretty quickly because we had telephone lines. UM in the 448 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: old days, you had someone at the switchboard and they 449 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: would route that call right. And then we scaled pretty 450 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: quickly because we had the telephone lines and it ran 451 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: over that. Um. But today we have wireless phones, um, 452 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: and so we don't really the internet scalpe pretty quickly. 453 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: Then eventually they put fiber optics in the ground, they 454 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: skipped the telephone lines, and now we just use wireless altogether. Um. 455 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: But then we saw nations like Africa leap frog. They 456 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: never had wired telephones, they just went straight to wireless. 457 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: And so what is the telephone network, Well, it's an 458 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: information network right through wires. And so if you think 459 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: about the month the dollar being a payment network, that's 460 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: the to the point, had the best reputation. It's now killed. Um. 461 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: Could we see other nations just leap frog right past 462 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: that payment network and just use a different payment network. Absolutely, 463 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: I think it's a brilliant way to break it down. Um. 464 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: You know, to your point with Africa, it's like they 465 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: had no technical debt or infrastructure debt in that leap frog. 466 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: So it's a huge boon for them to skip this 467 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: this wave of fixed capital deployment. Because if you deploy 468 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of whatever telephone poles, cellphone wires, and then 469 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: ten years later you don't need them, well, that's a 470 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: that's a huge outlay that was no longer benefiting you effectively. 471 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: And so if you're a smaller up and coming developing nation, 472 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: you can observe these technological trends playing out in the 473 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: developed world, and you know, cherry pick what's best. You 474 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: can skip the telephone polls and go straight to wireless. 475 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: And typically those advancements almost by definition, are orders of 476 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: magnitude more efficient, so that Aitian then becomes more competitive 477 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: relative to the developmation with with the infrastructure or technical debt. 478 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: And you know, I think that is a again great 479 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: way to look at it. The other thing I would 480 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: add there is this idea of dollar derivatives not being 481 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: built on the bitcoin blockchain UM. Typically with a lot 482 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: more yield you can hold whatever USDC. There's a million 483 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: stable coins out there that offer some yield that you 484 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: cannot get in the traditional banking system. So that's an 485 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 1: added inducement for people to migrate from legacy banking infrastructure 486 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: into something bitcoin or even crypto related. UM. That's something 487 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: to watch for. UH. And this idea of neutral settlement 488 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: network neutral settlement layer, you know what bitcoiners often call 489 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: bitcoin money for enemies. That's very valuable, right. You want 490 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: to be able to trade with everyone, but you want 491 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: to be able to do it in a way that 492 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: you don't have to trust anyone, and that's what bitcoin 493 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: ultimately is that you get to trust the math, the 494 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: self interests of market participants, um and thermodynamics effectively through 495 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: its its supply, security, energy expenditure, and that gives it 496 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: a very potent reputation as money. Right, It's like something 497 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: no one can control. No political attack vector or organization 498 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: can change the rules. That's a very big deal because 499 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: it is effectively what was Russia doing. They were playing 500 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: in a certain financial network and then the rules were 501 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: changed on them, like oh, you're now ejected from the game, 502 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: or you've lost your points, or whatever analogy you want 503 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: to use here. Everyone has this demand to play the 504 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: game of fixed rules. So Bitcoin, it's such a brilliant innovation. 505 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: It's almost established a reputation so free of counterparty risk 506 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: that it's more like the sun coming up right, you 507 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: don't you know there's gonna be a block average with 508 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: every ten minutes. That's all it does, and that there's 509 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: literally the only thing it does, and holds a supply 510 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: cap of twenty one million, and no one can change it. 511 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: Like that's the whole value prop So I think the 512 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: more conflict and tension we have individually, geo, politically, whatever layer, 513 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: the more demand you're creating for that neutral settlement territory. 514 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: And ultimately, you know, as you're pointing out, you know, 515 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: Daly was brilliant. These guys have thought about it a lot, 516 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: but they missed the technological piece. I guess that this 517 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: is not on them. This is a human thing. We 518 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: were really bad at prognosticating the future. You look at 519 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: go back into the fifties or the seventies and look 520 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: at you know, sci fi future films. We're blasting around 521 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: rockets all over the universe space like, but no one 522 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: had the handheld supercomputer. You know, we didn't know social media. 523 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: There's predictions that have been closer. Like I talked about 524 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: the sovereign individual a lot. They predicted some of these 525 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: things in like nineties seven, so say, a couple of 526 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: decades before they transpired. But looking into the deep future, 527 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: I think it's much harder to tell where we're going. 528 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: Um but looking and so that should give us all 529 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: some pause and humility as looking at as guys that 530 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: look into the future. But yeah, but before the norm, 531 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: I would say here that seems to be I don't 532 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: want to say irrefutable, but very common, is it? Societies 533 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: tend to have hard money, all right, Hard money is 534 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: the norm of human history. We're using gold for five 535 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: thousand years, We've had this Fiat anomaly for just a 536 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: few hundred, so it would seem to me like when 537 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: trust is being lost, we're going to revert back to 538 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: the mean and hard money. The difference in a guy 539 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: like Dally on my own thinking is I just think 540 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: bitcoin is disruptive to gold. I don't think. I think 541 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: gold has failed basically, and so we need something new, 542 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: and I can't see what that would be other than 543 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: bitcoint I have a lot more to go over with 544 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: Robert Breedlove here, so make sure you stick around as 545 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: we dig more into this. I'll be right back, all right, 546 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: welcome back. You are listening to the Mark Moa Show. 547 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: I am joined in the studio with one of my buddies, 548 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: Robert Breedlove, one of the best thinkers in the bitcoin space. 549 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: One more topic to discuss that's a little bit different 550 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: but maybe somewhat related is um elon musk and Twitter 551 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: mm hm and um. The one thing that I see, Well, 552 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that I see. There a 553 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of angles that we could take 554 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: with that, but specific the angle that I'm thinking about 555 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: is so if, um, if money is communication, the bitcoin 556 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: network is a better network that communicates money or information better? Um, 557 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: the Elon must take over of Twitter has had a 558 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: lot of pushback. People are working on Twitter say they're 559 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 1: going to quit, uh, you know, things like that. And 560 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: one thing that's been kind of I've been thinking about 561 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: is like man, he said that he wants to take 562 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: it over to help have more free speech. He doesn't 563 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: like the censorship. That seems to be his big gripe. Uh, 564 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: there's too much censorship. I want to have more free speech. 565 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: And so it seems like all these people that are 566 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: pushing back on that are saying we don't want free 567 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: speech and if money is speech right or communication And 568 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: is this just a small little microcosm that's an anomaly 569 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: that shouldn't be looked at, or or if we should 570 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: care about or do you think there's something bigger where 571 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: maybe people don't want freedom of speech and we don't 572 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: need this freedom of communication even in money. I mean, 573 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: people are opposed to Canadians or or Russia getting out 574 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: of sanctions, which is kind of the same thing. Almost. Yeah, 575 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: it's honestly scary because I would argue that, well, it 576 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: was someone tweeted this. Whether Elon successfully takes over Twitter 577 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: or not, he's sort of forced all of the people 578 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: that believe in censorship or are anti free speech to 579 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: show their cards, because if you're against his private takeover 580 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: of a business at a premium to all the shareholders, 581 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you don't get it. Right, that's anti capitalism, 582 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: anti competition, anti civilization even right, that's fast, it's fascism ultimately, 583 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: because now who's at vanguard steps in and bought a 584 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: stake to basically against the bat and and the reason 585 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: they don't want it is because he's offering to have 586 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: freedom of speech exactly exactly. They want to keep their 587 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: hands on the censorship lovers. And Twitter is the biggest 588 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: media platform in the war world. Jeff Bezos bought Washington 589 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: Post and nobody cared about that because he didn't want 590 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: freedom of speeches. That's I guess that's the attack, right, 591 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: the freedom of speech. Yeah, and Twitter, in my opinion, 592 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: is the most important media outlet in the world. I mean, 593 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: there's things with bigger user bases and bigger revenue, but um, 594 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: in terms of ideas being exchanged, I think Twitter has 595 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: the most density for that um and the censorship has 596 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: been rampant frankly, so I it's very encouraging in a 597 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: way that a guy like Ellen is standing up for 598 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: the freedom of speech and really putting his money where 599 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: his mouth is. Elon does not funk around, which you know, 600 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: he's someone else twe did this. Elon was the first 601 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: guy that got rich and actually did cool ship with 602 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: his money. Yeah, I think that's pretty well said. But 603 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: ultimately this all grounds out on Bitcoin again though, because 604 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: even if Ellen takes over successfully and tries to reincorporate 605 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: the principles of speech, he's still going to have pressure 606 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: from the state, you know, the state broadly, you know 607 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: multiple states that that Twitter is operating within to sensors 608 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: certain people about certain things, and so that it will 609 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: become the arbiter of truth he or his his management team, 610 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: and Bitcoin just again obviates the need for all this. 611 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: It's like, if we can build communication platforms media platforms 612 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: on top of bitcoin that are transmitting micropayments of SATs 613 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: with these each message. You can basically make messaging unstoppable, 614 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: as unstoppable as the money itself, and in doing so, 615 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,959 Speaker 1: you can implement actual free speech in the digital domain. 616 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: So we don't even have to have the conversation of 617 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: censorship anymore. It's just like you can speak as freely 618 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: in real life as you can and on on Twitter 619 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: or the bitcoin equivalent. If bitcoin would be like digital cash, 620 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: so it's peer to peer, so it's almost like cash, 621 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: but digitally where I could give it to you and 622 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: there's nobody in between to stop a lack can prevent it. Um. 623 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: It could also move um conversation almost as I'm talking 624 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: to you peer to peer with nobody in between that 625 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: could stop it. Black and are prevented. That's right, and 626 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,919 Speaker 1: it changes the game for a lot of things. Changes 627 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: the game for podcasting, you know, like stream SATs to 628 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. Um Peters and I talked about us 629 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: in our interview. He thinks that all the social media 630 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: bullying has to do with the fact that there's zero 631 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: cost of messaging. There's no cost to being a schmuck 632 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: on Twitter. But you would never say those those would 633 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: never say the same thing in her life because they 634 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: get punched in the face, especially not to you. So 635 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: and Saylor went deep on this in our series together 636 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: or he talks about Twitter implementing bitcoin to have like 637 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: the orange check or the blue check and basically a 638 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: skin in the game reputation system that would cleanse the 639 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: quality of discourse online. And I think it's brilliant. Also, 640 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: I think it's almost as as inevitable as bitcoin, because again, 641 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: people want that. People want a place you could just 642 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: speak freely and interact without the throw of censorship or 643 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: any top down control like that's that's a universal that's 644 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: in universal demand. Let's say even the people that want 645 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: to censor others like they don't they themselves do not 646 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: want to be sensors. So when that domain opens that 647 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: can sense or no one, everyone's gonna migrate there. It's 648 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: the same dynamic, same reasons people are adopting bitcoin, people 649 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: adopt bitcoin based media. Yeah, and I know we're both 650 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: friends with Justin over at Zion and both involved in that. 651 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: So shout out to Zion because they're hoping to bring that, 652 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: helping to bring that, and so um, we're going to 653 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 1: see more and more of that. Well, I think with 654 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: that we'll go ahead and sign it off. We've covered 655 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: a lot of ground, always of pleasure, um talking to you. 656 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: We referenced obviously your show What Is Money and the 657 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: upcoming uh with the release I should say, of your 658 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: interview with with Jordan Peterson, So definitely check that out. 659 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: Anything else you want to bring attention to. No, man, 660 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: it's been great talking to you. Um. You know, the 661 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: sub stack is the Freedom antiox that's linked on Twitter profile. 662 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: So if you want to follow the reading more than 663 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 1: the talking, that's another option. And uh no, we're gonna 664 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: be releasing I did five in person interviews in Miami, 665 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: so we're gonna be releasing those over the next few weeks. Um. 666 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: I hope, I hope everyone likes them. Feel free to 667 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: engage let me know Hi. Robert. Always a pleasure, Thanks 668 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,879 Speaker 1: so much, Thank you Mark. All Right, you've been listening 669 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: to the Mark Moss Show. I've been joined in the 670 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: studio with Robert Breedlove, the host of the What Is 671 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: Money Show and podcast. Make sure to check Robert out 672 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: and shoot us some message on Twitter and tell us 673 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: you heard us on the Mark Moss Show. That's what 674 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: we got for you today. I appreciate you listening until 675 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: next time.