Speaker 1: Look Mayer, Oh, I see you my own look over
Speaker 1: there is that culture. Yes, goodness loves cult day last
Speaker 1: Culturas calling a day.
Speaker 2: Of days, a day of days, a day that feels
Speaker 2: right in the heart, the soul, the mind, the body.
Speaker 3: You know what I was thinking this morning, I was like,
Speaker 3: this is someone we've actually wanted on this podcast since
Speaker 3: since we get starting. And by the way, we should
Speaker 3: say shout out to anyone who voted for us for
Speaker 3: Podcasts over the Year, which we won.
Speaker 1: For a second time.
Speaker 3: Yes, and it's nine years in and I'm just thinking about, like,
Speaker 3: I know, our guest is here today and someone we've
Speaker 3: looked up to since, but even before we started the
Speaker 3: podcast and all these years later, it feels like a
Speaker 3: wonderful little moment. So thank you all for that, and
Speaker 3: also just to have our guests in this like star
Speaker 3: ascending moment.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's feeling.
Speaker 2: I'm a little emotion, I'm a little emos This is
Speaker 2: someone who had wonderful Vulture piece on our guest, and
Speaker 2: it just made me realize what we've known along, which is, oh,
Speaker 2: this is someone who both is someone in place, people
Speaker 2: that you just root for.
Speaker 1: We just love you so I know, and it is
Speaker 1: like a decade in the making.
Speaker 3: It's seriously and like and so basically we're about to
Speaker 3: bring our guests in. But just know, like I mean,
Speaker 3: obviously the White Lotus insecure.
Speaker 1: How did I alone? I mean, there's so much to
Speaker 1: talk about.
Speaker 3: But for me, I was literally when we finally met
Speaker 3: our I finally like really in person met our guest,
Speaker 3: which feels crazy, like the other night after the Oscars,
Speaker 3: and I was like, you know, you to me will
Speaker 3: always be that flight attendant you see me base basement.
Speaker 1: If you know, you know on mod night, not even UCB,
Speaker 1: this is a UCB pitizen, this is a story bar.
Speaker 2: Were three three pitizens in the room, in the room,
Speaker 2: my god, I'll.
Speaker 1: Wait, we got a bringer. Let's go. Let's go. Everyone.
Speaker 1: Welcome to your ears.
Speaker 3: Natasha, thank you for having me, making me.
Speaker 1: A most it's emost moments.
Speaker 3: But that's like so special, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: to just have those people that are from way back
Speaker 3: that you knew were special then pop off like and
Speaker 3: that happens all the time now if.
Speaker 4: I feel that about you too, are you kidding me?
Speaker 5: I think game recognized game and like even like on
Speaker 5: our come up watching the two of you work like
Speaker 5: it's just you know, you know, but you.
Speaker 2: Know that I was going through the whole process of
Speaker 2: screen testing for SNL then being offered to write, and
Speaker 2: I remember reaching out to you and being like, what.
Speaker 1: Do you think I should do?
Speaker 2: Because I just respected you to the fucking mountains and
Speaker 2: at that point you were already insecure, like yeah, Kelly
Speaker 2: was already like the one, and I was just like, Na,
Speaker 2: Tasha had such a unique Everyone has a unique journey,
Speaker 2: and you had a very unique journey, and I was
Speaker 2: just like I need to know because at that point,
Speaker 2: I'm going to say, like you could count I'm like
Speaker 2: one or two hands the number of writers of color,
Speaker 2: let's say, not to put it on those those lines,
Speaker 2: but like it was like a meaningful thing to reach
Speaker 2: out to you peace.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I remember when you did, and I remember saying
Speaker 5: that like it was hard for me, but like the
Speaker 5: juice was worth the squeeze, right, because it's just like
Speaker 5: going through that, you know, iron sharpens iron, you become
Speaker 5: better at what you do. And it wasn't perfect. And
Speaker 5: I have notes, yes, yes we all do, but I
Speaker 5: think ultimately it was the stamp in my passport you know,
Speaker 5: professionally that I needed to open some doors that I
Speaker 5: think I would have eventually opened, but maybe take a
Speaker 5: little longer to do.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: I mean does being back in New York make you
Speaker 2: reflect on this obviously, right?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it's like like from the pit days to
Speaker 2: the UCB days to the s and L.
Speaker 1: Like on every level, on every level.
Speaker 5: Like you know, like in a car where he says, like,
Speaker 5: you know, things in this mirror are closer than they appear.
Speaker 5: Like for me, that's like literally being so broke that
Speaker 5: I was like picking up Metro cards off of the
Speaker 5: ground at the train stations on my way home to
Speaker 5: check them the next morning, and so like having calling
Speaker 5: my mom in fucking South Jersey to order me pizza
Speaker 5: in Brooklyn from Jersey.
Speaker 4: Because I didn't have anything in the bank.
Speaker 1: And it's just pizza.
Speaker 3: Pizza, a better pizza than a lot of New York pizza.
Speaker 3: When you're outside of the city, they take their time
Speaker 3: on the pizza.
Speaker 1: That's actually a real culture number four six, when they're
Speaker 1: outside of the city by the time on the pizza.
Speaker 4: That's true.
Speaker 5: But no, I'm full of gratitude and even just writing
Speaker 5: here today so much of my experience in New York
Speaker 5: was based on where I was my.
Speaker 4: Social socioeconomic level.
Speaker 5: And I feel like for every different stratosphere there's a
Speaker 5: different version of the city. The version of the city
Speaker 5: that I'm getting to know now is it's different than
Speaker 5: the one that I knew. But I missed the one
Speaker 5: that that I used to know, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: I missed that kind of like hustle and that grind
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 5: I was never more poor than I was when I
Speaker 5: was grinding in comedy, but I was so.
Speaker 2: Happy, Yeah, you know what I mean, Like the early
Speaker 2: mornings for like a story pirate show like mad An
Speaker 2: call Time, the like I didn't tech for.
Speaker 4: Your mod show at like three am, you know.
Speaker 1: And paying for it talk about notes. This again is
Speaker 1: the old uc.
Speaker 3: But no, but I mean, like it's really something like
Speaker 3: when I remember I had taken like a long time
Speaker 3: away from New York, probably because of the pandemic obviously,
Speaker 3: and then I got back and my immediate instinct it
Speaker 3: was raining a little bit. I was like, I'm still
Speaker 3: gonna take a WHI and I did have like a
Speaker 3: I don't know why, I am frightened moment looking around
Speaker 3: sort of really getting tearful because we did like this
Speaker 3: is this is really where we grew up.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
Speaker 5: When people ask me, because I'm an Air Force bread
Speaker 5: and I grew up all over, I was just like,
Speaker 5: but I became an adult in New York, Like I
Speaker 5: found out my voice and you know in New York,
Speaker 5: I like made mistakes in New York.
Speaker 4: Like New York truly raised me.
Speaker 5: And so even though I didn't live here super long,
Speaker 5: it's only eight years, but even just driving here, I
Speaker 5: was just.
Speaker 4: Like looking at cars, like I remember crying on that corner.
Speaker 5: I remember remember that bagel shop that atm lets you
Speaker 5: take it out.
Speaker 4: You can get a five out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh wow, tell us about that about dollars? Yeah,
Speaker 1: found one.
Speaker 5: So it's like all of those things and you're just like, oh,
Speaker 5: I'm so grateful to have had that. And it feels
Speaker 5: like a collective experience, you know, like no one quite
Speaker 5: knows what we went through. And the improv industrial complex
Speaker 5: is like that that like the pipeline from improv to TV,
Speaker 5: like it's not what it used to be, you know,
Speaker 5: like they don't have it like we did.
Speaker 2: Like there was a time of being in New York
Speaker 2: or la doing comedy in the way that we did,
Speaker 2: where it felt like so cool anytime, and it felt
Speaker 2: kind of frequent, I'll say, is the word, but like
Speaker 2: it felt like there was a regularity and like, oh,
Speaker 2: this person got raptured up into the show.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And now I feel like I feel like.
Speaker 2: I'm not like my ears into the ground maybe, but
Speaker 2: like I don't know, I don't know like of that
Speaker 2: same sort of like machinery that's happening.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I don't either.
Speaker 5: But the scuttle butt is that it's maybe not the
Speaker 5: same as it used to be. And I think that
Speaker 5: like the the beauty of what was it was, you know,
Speaker 5: like if you liken you know, UCB to like Catholicism
Speaker 5: and then to like, you know, I felt like we
Speaker 5: were all worshiping the god of comedy. And it's just
Speaker 5: like when you go through that kind of like radicalization,
Speaker 5: it's just like you see someone else and you're just.
Speaker 3: Like zip, you know, I'm about to ritails vegetails, hilarious,
Speaker 3: I'm about to get a little niche. But like when
Speaker 3: you were because I remember think because we were pit people,
Speaker 3: because we weren't embraced by UCB at the very start.
Speaker 1: It actually took us a little bit same. Is that
Speaker 1: the same with you?
Speaker 3: You were like because you were one of the queens
Speaker 3: of the Pit, and we remember thinking of you being like, well,
Speaker 3: Natasha's here at the pit, putting in the hard yards,
Speaker 3: and like that means that like we'll get to UCB.
Speaker 1: Natasha's on the poster like these are our lines.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well I just remember I had come
Speaker 5: to New York with six years of mainstage experience in
Speaker 5: DC like Washington in prov Theater and tried to jump
Speaker 5: the line at UCB of just like I've been doing
Speaker 5: this for like professionally six years and I've been teaching
Speaker 5: and then like no, no, no, no, no, take a number.
Speaker 5: I was like okay, yeah, and then I went to
Speaker 5: the pit and Ali was just like, oh, like you
Speaker 5: can teach, like and so I was able to start teaching,
Speaker 5: and then I auditioned and got on a team and so.
Speaker 1: So bluss the pit then for like yeah, they also.
Speaker 5: Where they held the showcase for SNL. When I auditioned,
Speaker 5: it was at the pit. That was famous night, that
Speaker 5: was the famous that was a big night, and so
Speaker 5: it was just I think the pit allowed folks to
Speaker 5: be a little bit more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's less rigid than totally the Catholics. I remember
Speaker 1: also feeling like, you know, the the Catholics.
Speaker 3: I remember at the time like there was something really
Speaker 3: performative about that space, like because because you're a performer,
Speaker 3: you're a real performer. And I remember thinking, I think
Speaker 3: we identified that as that too, maybe because UCB felt
Speaker 3: like very it felt you know what I mean, like
Speaker 3: you had to learn a language that like those guys
Speaker 3: were speaking, but at the pit it felt like you could.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was just like the presentium, the literal stage.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it felt like it was welcoming a different kind
Speaker 3: of performer, and I kind of felt enthusiastic about that opportunity.
Speaker 5: No, I love the pit stage and it was so
Speaker 5: much fun also to meet the folks that were like
Speaker 5: devoutly pit yes and would never go to UCB. I
Speaker 5: know it was, And I just felt like an interloper
Speaker 5: where I'm just like, nah, I gotta go.
Speaker 4: It used to be we I'm gonna do this show now,
Speaker 4: which like that's the best.
Speaker 2: Though it's like best and like shout out to the
Speaker 2: Magnet people like Magnet. The Magnet is still about a
Speaker 2: wonderful vibe the Baptist.
Speaker 4: Listen, we have figured it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we get by the end of this episode, we'll
Speaker 1: figure out what the Groundlings is. You know, we're not
Speaker 1: l a people, but we're gonna work figure it out
Speaker 1: and Second City and all that say. But like I just.
Speaker 2: Remember seeing you at the pit doing the flight attendant
Speaker 2: and I was just like, okay, like this is someone
Speaker 2: who this She's gonna go the fucking distance, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like, like I think you are one
Speaker 2: of those people who we just like modeled ourselves after
Speaker 2: anytime there was a story pirate story that like there
Speaker 2: would be linked to every story, every stock story. I
Speaker 2: feel like, were you in the Emergency Poncho?
Speaker 3: It was it was like, sorry, story sketch called the
Speaker 3: Emergency Poncho about a kid that gets a poncholl put
Speaker 3: on him at a mean because it starts raining and
Speaker 3: it became musical, and you were in the tutorial for it,
Speaker 3: and that was the one one of the ones we
Speaker 3: all I'm actually dead, we really are. Like see that's
Speaker 3: like I remember, like the story parts of it all
Speaker 3: really pushing me forward because I'm like, yes, the community
Speaker 3: is what's important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that that remains true.
Speaker 3: And I feel like something about you is you're always
Speaker 3: in an amazing ensemble, and you always put together an
Speaker 3: amazing ensemble. You just won the Indie Spirit Award for
Speaker 3: Ensemble in a new series and with our pal Conrad,
Speaker 3: and you know, even that connection to being this great ensemble.
Speaker 3: And I see you and obviously Insecure and now famously
Speaker 3: two seasons of The White Lotus, and you're in that
Speaker 3: family that's obviously not an accident. It's like you're not
Speaker 3: like booking purposefully these things, but it seems to follow you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm always drawn to the collaborative arts.
Speaker 5: I think that's why I never like I have deference
Speaker 5: for stand but it's never been my bag because I
Speaker 5: don't want to fail alone.
Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean to me?
Speaker 5: It's just like, can we get a team together to
Speaker 5: believe in one thing and even if we lose, it's.
Speaker 4: Together so there's still a win.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And I also find that in and again like it
Speaker 5: does feel like it's chosen me more than I've chosen it.
Speaker 5: But I feel like of the ensembles that have chosen me,
Speaker 5: my entry point is always sort of with a character
Speaker 5: that's kind of carrying sort of like the torch of empathy,
Speaker 5: and I think that's just innate in me. That's how
Speaker 5: I moved through the world. And so whether nature nurture,
Speaker 5: I'm always drawn to parts and characters that bring humanity.
Speaker 4: To people who look like me, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: And I don't consider it like an obligation or sort
Speaker 5: of like a burden to me.
Speaker 4: I get excited by that opportunity.
Speaker 5: And that's like when I sat down with Mike for
Speaker 5: White Lotus season one, I had reservations because at that
Speaker 5: point he hadn't had the scripts written, but I loved
Speaker 5: him at talking like love him. I'm from Freaks and Geeks,
Speaker 5: enlightened all the way through, you know, good girl everything.
Speaker 5: But then he is so good right, but then he
Speaker 5: hit then my team's just like okay, And I was like, well,
Speaker 5: how many in the cast are people of color? And
Speaker 5: it's just like it's you and then there's one other girl,
Speaker 5: but like mostly it's like you, and so I'm in
Speaker 5: a servile position and I.
Speaker 4: Was like, that didn't like make me want to, you know,
Speaker 4: say no.
Speaker 5: I was just like, is he going to collaborate with
Speaker 5: me to help sort of like discover this character and
Speaker 5: we found that empathy, We found that like heart in
Speaker 5: the heart of who she was. So yeah, for me,
Speaker 5: characters and empathy are always sort of like the true North.
Speaker 2: And then he kind of has the sympathetic sort of
Speaker 2: instinct with you where it's like he went page by
Speaker 2: page yeah with Belinda and it's like, okay, like what's
Speaker 2: the deal here? Like yeah, and you get to be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I want her to wave hello with this family that's
Speaker 2: at the resort, Like those moments, that moment really struck out.
Speaker 2: And then reading this piece and seeing all these interviews
Speaker 2: that you're doing talk about that specific thing, I'm like,
Speaker 2: this is this is the importance of like of Belinda's
Speaker 2: a character, of you as an actor.
Speaker 5: And it's important of directors to know who they have
Speaker 5: and how to utilize them.
Speaker 4: Like we have the same hyphenates.
Speaker 5: Mike and I were both actors, we're both writers, were
Speaker 5: both directors, and so as writers we were able to
Speaker 5: sit down and geek out. And he's so aware that
Speaker 5: he's not a black woman, right, and so he's just like, well,
Speaker 5: what are the ways that we can at that authenticity?
Speaker 5: And I tell him all the time, I was just
Speaker 5: like I wish more directors took, you know, a page
Speaker 5: from that book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of being able.
Speaker 5: To know I have a deficit, but this character or
Speaker 5: this actor who's playing this character might be a resource
Speaker 5: to me.
Speaker 4: But I have to humble myself to do that.
Speaker 5: And Mike is one of the kindest, most humble, like
Speaker 5: gentle sweet souls.
Speaker 4: That I've ever met.
Speaker 5: And so for him to do that with me season one,
Speaker 5: and I was bucking nobody season one, you know, like I.
Speaker 1: Mean, Kelly was I mean, Kelly was a thing.
Speaker 5: But also it was just like, well, anyway, maybe I
Speaker 5: should say I should say I felt like, why was
Speaker 5: he listening to me?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be hard to walk into an ensemble
Speaker 3: cast like that and be like, yep, of.
Speaker 5: Course anyone any and so like I felt so like
Speaker 5: ahead of my skis, but he.
Speaker 4: Was so excited.
Speaker 5: And then when you know, I was asked back for
Speaker 5: season three, was like when we're going to zoom, I
Speaker 5: was like, I got you boom, So we like did
Speaker 5: that we chopped it up again.
Speaker 3: Yeah. One of my favorite things about this season, the
Speaker 3: characterization of Blinda, is it does feel like there's a
Speaker 3: little bit more you in there, Like some of my
Speaker 3: favorite moments are when you're in your place of like
Speaker 3: attitude is gratitude and then and then a lizard will
Speaker 3: jump out and it will be a full shut down,
Speaker 3: Like I feel like that humor and that sort of
Speaker 3: on guardness. It's yes, it's like it serves as just
Speaker 3: great comedic relief in any of these given moments, especially
Speaker 3: interacting with the environment, which is so much of what
Speaker 3: the show is about. But also it's for me, it
Speaker 3: speaks to the fact that like, you're dealing with less
Speaker 3: bullshit now, like you are a version of Belinda now
Speaker 3: that is like no fuck that I will self preserve.
Speaker 3: So it means more to me than just those small interactions.
Speaker 3: And where we find Belinda right now in the season
Speaker 3: and we've seen the six episodes so far, is a
Speaker 3: place of true fear and existential terror because she's now
Speaker 3: being like you know, she's Greg is in the midst
Speaker 3: and they see each other in a real way.
Speaker 1: So I wonder, like, what.
Speaker 3: Do you think of that progression and where do you
Speaker 3: think she's at and going?
Speaker 4: I love this question.
Speaker 5: So for me, when we see her at the end
Speaker 5: of season one, right it's like she's devastated, her hopes
Speaker 5: were dashed.
Speaker 4: And then we see her.
Speaker 5: Starting something new, doing something that's you know, out of
Speaker 5: her comfort zone. And I feel like when we do that,
Speaker 5: it speaks to hope and optimism. So it speaks to
Speaker 5: some kind of between the time we last saw her
Speaker 5: and when we meet her she has grieved that loss
Speaker 5: and is trying again. And when finally and when you
Speaker 5: meet someone on sort of like the precipice of change
Speaker 5: and like you know, in entertaining optimism, it's an exciting
Speaker 5: role to play because she's doing something familiar. Yes it's massage,
Speaker 5: but it's in a completely different country. She's learning a
Speaker 5: new technique. She's raising the bar for herself. And when
Speaker 5: we see her in six, all of the hope that
Speaker 5: she has is now being threatened by Greg and her
Speaker 5: son is so Mama Bear's kicking in, so she can't
Speaker 5: just recede, which is what she's used to doing when
Speaker 5: you know, things get bad or scary. Now it's fight
Speaker 5: or flight, and bitch is gonna fight, you know, like
Speaker 5: we want to see that activation.
Speaker 4: Yea, is she going to be successful?
Speaker 5: I hope fucking So it's like to pit her against
Speaker 5: you know, Greg, And this way I think Mike was
Speaker 5: so smart in the writing because it's it's the recognition
Speaker 5: is so heavy.
Speaker 4: It hits so hard when audiences see that.
Speaker 5: And he's very sinister and in John in real life
Speaker 5: he's such a dear friend.
Speaker 4: He's also so sweet, yell like so sweet.
Speaker 5: But when he got in character, there's one tape, Oh,
Speaker 5: I jumped.
Speaker 4: I was like, don't you can't smile at me like that?
Speaker 5: Oh, because he would just like smile and like raise
Speaker 5: his iron life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the variations of that character he's given us, Like,
Speaker 3: you really don't know if in that very first scene
Speaker 3: he appeared in in season one, if that was a
Speaker 3: long con from the beginning, it was something he figured out.
Speaker 3: There's so many things, ye that are under the surface,
Speaker 3: obviously with every character, but him being sort of the
Speaker 3: big boss of the show now at this point, the
Speaker 3: main antagonist of the show. Every time you see him
Speaker 3: it gets scary because it didn't start that way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know what he's capable of, right, So
Speaker 5: it's just like it's.
Speaker 2: All in that first interaction that you two have this
Speaker 2: season though, I feel where you approach him at dinner, I.
Speaker 1: Love that scene. It's both of you volleying it.
Speaker 2: In this way that is like incredibly tense, Like you're
Speaker 2: not looking, like you're not like on your phone while
Speaker 2: you're watching this show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it's one of those.
Speaker 2: And I bring that up because this is a bad
Speaker 2: habit of mine now where I'm just like, Okay, whatever
Speaker 2: I'm putting on right now, Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But like, this is the thing that I think we're
Speaker 2: talking about, which is you can fill in the gaps
Speaker 2: as a viewer on Belinda's journey between one and three
Speaker 2: seasons one and three, where it's like her hopes were dashed,
Speaker 2: she has convalesced in the intervening time of like I'm
Speaker 2: gonna self start again, like since being disappointed and feeling
Speaker 2: like I had the slight preserver thrown at me.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like the empathy that she in the
Speaker 5: favor that she couraged season one is there and we
Speaker 5: see that like she is found a way to do
Speaker 5: that for herself, you know, like support herself and cheer
Speaker 5: herself on. And yeah, and I also think like it's
Speaker 5: fun to see her on a quasi vacation because we
Speaker 5: all have these vacation identities that we try on when
Speaker 5: we go out. It's just like, you know what, I
Speaker 5: got my vacation braids on. We like go out and
Speaker 5: wear these shoes that I've taken the tag off.
Speaker 4: I never wore them before I wear them now.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So it's just like playing with identity and like who
Speaker 5: she wants to be. And I think it's really beautiful
Speaker 5: to play with someone who's such you know, putty ready
Speaker 5: to be molded and now she's about to be molded
Speaker 5: by circumstance.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: I wonder how many months cumulatively have you spent living
Speaker 1: in a four seasons?
Speaker 4: Oh? Boy?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: Like is it like almost a year doing this?
Speaker 5: More?
Speaker 4: Because I did? I did Sonic in Hawaiian that was
Speaker 4: four seasons as well.
Speaker 3: Oh so you have you're a membership basically.
Speaker 5: Like at this point, if they don't make me an ambassador,
Speaker 5: I don't know, well, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know what it might like.
Speaker 3: Did you hear about that cruise that's like we'll take
Speaker 3: you to all the White Lotus locations. You can have
Speaker 3: a White Lotus Expire vacation.
Speaker 2: It's it's some vacation that Hawaii to Italy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like there's something you can do that.
Speaker 3: First of all, it's Greg money. Also like it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, to have a white Lotus inspired vacation. It's like,
Speaker 3: you know what happens on the show, a lot of
Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's soon said.
Speaker 5: That was just like they must have the best pr ta.
Speaker 1: They don't.
Speaker 4: They bury it all.
Speaker 1: My god.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we have to ask you the question that
Speaker 3: we asked all of our guests, and I'm excited to
Speaker 3: ask you this, which was what is the culture? And
Speaker 3: Natasha Rathwall that made you say culture was for you?
Speaker 5: I thought about this question a lot also because I'm
Speaker 5: a fan of the show, and so I was just like,
Speaker 5: and I will say also, I've been trying to get
Speaker 5: on the show for ten years, but my schedule has
Speaker 5: been so dumb.
Speaker 1: No, I mean like we've never been trying, We've.
Speaker 4: Been chasing each other.
Speaker 1: So this but this is the moment, this is right now.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I'm like Loki Embarrason what I'm about to say,
Speaker 5: But it's so true.
Speaker 4: And it is the movie Grease.
Speaker 1: Let's go well, at least you picked the best movie
Speaker 1: of all time. Yeah.
Speaker 5: And I will say I feel like Greece too has
Speaker 5: not talked about enough.
Speaker 1: No, certainly not about it. Let's talk about it, Okay.
Speaker 4: I just feel like, one, you have a girl for
Speaker 4: all seasons, we have cool riders.
Speaker 5: I feel like we get to see like Michelle Feife
Speaker 5: getting dirty, she's straddling a ladder.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: But Greece like the og Yeah I just watched. I
Speaker 5: like I wore out the VHS.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be on my letterbox. Four.
Speaker 3: I think, oh, if I ever get asked that question
Speaker 3: by that incredible organization, yes, I will say one word
Speaker 3: Grease Greece, and then I'll figure out the other three.
Speaker 1: But like, what is it about it for you?
Speaker 3: Because for me, I think there's something about it's a
Speaker 3: some amalgamation of like the costumes and the the actors
Speaker 3: are committed to those insane characterizations, and obviously the incredibly
Speaker 3: catchy music. But is there anything specific for you?
Speaker 5: Well, the music for sure, but also like I grew
Speaker 5: up in the church, very chaste, and so I relate
Speaker 5: it with a you know Sandra d.
Speaker 1: Yes, good girl gone bad? Come on?
Speaker 5: I was, I was like, yeah, so it was so
Speaker 5: much fun watching someone just like get pursued by the
Speaker 5: bad boy, and there was all of this kind of
Speaker 5: like you know it felt Austinian because they're like long, and.
Speaker 4: You know, there's just this tension of just like when
Speaker 4: are they gonna kiss?
Speaker 1: And it just like yeah, and it's just.
Speaker 5: The tension plate, like we don't even get to see that,
Speaker 5: like the magic of that until like the end.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because and then do you go. I think it's
Speaker 3: one of those things that like bi osmosis, I do
Speaker 3: know every line, and I think maybe most people do
Speaker 3: and don't even realize.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it'll come on and.
Speaker 5: Then every once in a while I was just like, oh,
Speaker 5: I don't know where my keys are, but I know exactly.
Speaker 2: The beaterest of Grace would be like at any sort
Speaker 2: of like rented apartment that you would like you would
Speaker 2: go to on a family trip in like the person's
Speaker 2: like closet or something. For me, the thing about Greece,
Speaker 2: which is the thing that musicals on some level should
Speaker 2: be because they are musicals, because the emotion is so
Speaker 2: heightened that they you can't do anything but saying, is
Speaker 2: that it's the highest fantasy fantasy in the best way.
Speaker 4: They drive off in the car.
Speaker 1: Beauty school drop like are you kidding? He came from heaven.
Speaker 3: That's actually not talked about enough. It's really number eight
Speaker 3: beaut school drop out. He came from heaven.
Speaker 4: He came from heaven.
Speaker 1: He literally came down to give her her guidance.
Speaker 5: I also think that like I was when it came out,
Speaker 5: I was like I wanted to perform, like I saw
Speaker 5: that as such a like like it was Catharsis right
Speaker 5: on screen where I was like, oh that, I want
Speaker 5: to do something where I get to build it up
Speaker 5: to that point and my God, like.
Speaker 2: It's like the spirit inside you like want to emulate that.
Speaker 2: That is like the strongest link that you can have
Speaker 2: as like a viewer.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's so funny too, because like the movie
Speaker 5: couldn't be more white, but like for me, it was
Speaker 5: more about like the good versus evil, like bad and
Speaker 5: good and like I was able to sort of watch
Speaker 5: it through that lens and I mean just the jackets,
Speaker 5: like everything about it. I just remember watching it and
Speaker 5: like doing.
Speaker 1: The little like you like everyone had.
Speaker 3: I remember when when I was little, we would do
Speaker 3: like our little dance contest, Like that's one of the
Speaker 3: things that me and my friends would do, like me
Speaker 3: and the girls, And it was always you're the one
Speaker 3: that I want.
Speaker 1: It was always Summer Night one of the best group
Speaker 1: numbers in any musical. Yeah, so good. It's so good.
Speaker 3: And also then when you get a little older and
Speaker 3: you can really appreciate the depth, there are.
Speaker 1: Things I could do. So, I mean, I believe this is.
Speaker 3: My hot take. That might be a cold take because
Speaker 3: everyone might have it. Stock her channing that should have
Speaker 3: been an Oscar nomination.
Speaker 1: I agree what she brought to There are worse things
Speaker 1: I could do that. That's a moment in movies.
Speaker 5: It is everything And like you see her didn't she
Speaker 5: haven't or she had an abors or.
Speaker 1: She lost the babe or something she lost. It was
Speaker 1: like a false alarm something like that. It was like
Speaker 1: it was a false alarm.
Speaker 4: She's having this conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's like that's a lot, and the whole
Speaker 3: movie is a lot like they're talking about, like you
Speaker 3: know during Greece Lightning.
Speaker 5: That was and that was that was my kind of
Speaker 5: like Chase brain missed that until I was much older,
Speaker 5: and then I was like, oh, no, right, I know
Speaker 5: what that's.
Speaker 1: You know what that's you do musicals in high school.
Speaker 1: So I was Mama Rose and you were not.
Speaker 5: See and I met when I was in college. She
Speaker 5: came to visit University of Maryland and we were doing
Speaker 5: you Can't Take It with you, and she was in
Speaker 5: the hallway and I have this like fun picture of
Speaker 5: me and her back then.
Speaker 4: But wow, I did you guys did obviously musicals.
Speaker 1: We did musical.
Speaker 4: He did.
Speaker 1: I didn't. Oh yeah, he was.
Speaker 2: Like a high school was a Zach Caffred in high
Speaker 2: school musical, like was an athlete, but like secretly wanted
Speaker 2: to perform.
Speaker 4: Right did your dad's sports sports sports?
Speaker 3: Sports sports? But that wasn't really what held me back.
Speaker 3: All he wanted me to do is be involved. It
Speaker 3: was more just like gay on Long Island, right with
Speaker 3: all stuff up here. But I found it eventually.
Speaker 2: I just want to I just want to own up
Speaker 2: to the fact that Natasha said I was Mama Rose
Speaker 2: and my brain clutched and I thought, you met Mama
Speaker 2: Morton from Chicago, But.
Speaker 5: I but I did meet Queen Latifah at the variety
Speaker 5: of way she came up to me.
Speaker 1: She was amazing.
Speaker 4: She was amazing.
Speaker 1: Something about her that like it's I.
Speaker 3: Remember I met her years ago when I was doing
Speaker 3: the n YU newspaper and I went to interview her
Speaker 3: for Secret Life.
Speaker 1: Of Bees and she came in with.
Speaker 3: Her platinum blonde hair and sat down and just it
Speaker 3: was like, oh, now I know what it's like to
Speaker 3: be in the presence of.
Speaker 1: A super star royalty. She radiates she is a queen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeahs Mama Rose, that is I need to see that.
Speaker 2: You do need to take over her abduct I had.
Speaker 4: My The guy who played my husband in that show
Speaker 4: was so gay. I was gay.
Speaker 1: He was Herbie, so.
Speaker 5: Herbie was so gay. And the kiss that we have
Speaker 5: was on like I believe it was on the cheek.
Speaker 5: I was just like, like, I believe it was upon
Speaker 5: my cheek.
Speaker 4: I just remember there was we had. I mean it
Speaker 4: was so bootleg.
Speaker 5: It was high school right, the have an egg roll,
Speaker 5: mister Goldstone.
Speaker 4: All of that.
Speaker 5: We had like a prop issue and it wasn't there.
Speaker 5: And I did improv, right since I've been doing improv
Speaker 5: since high school.
Speaker 1: So like, did your object work it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: And people were just like that was it was a choice,
Speaker 5: and like, oh, I didn't know. And my director was
Speaker 5: just like, thanks for saving the scene. I was like,
Speaker 5: you got it, and I was just like embarrassing. My
Speaker 5: most embarrassing moment was auditioning for Wait.
Speaker 4: My Fair Lady. He did My Fair Lady.
Speaker 5: This was my junior year or my sophomore year, and
Speaker 5: I decided to learn sign language to the song that
Speaker 5: I was going to sing to because I didn't have
Speaker 5: confidence in my pipe, and so I forgot the lyrics
Speaker 5: to the song or the sign halfway through singing it.
Speaker 5: But my hands were already extended and moving, so it
Speaker 5: was just interpretive. Dan, Yes, I don't even remember what
Speaker 5: I was singing, but I just remember I was just
Speaker 5: like moving my hands and I left sobbing.
Speaker 1: But wait a minute, I was cast, but you were cast.
Speaker 3: I'm saying, there's something special about that audition, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1: I want her in my show.
Speaker 4: I want her in my show. What that movie?
Speaker 1: Because it's going to watch half signing sobbing?
Speaker 5: It was so it was just, yeah, it was a
Speaker 5: cluster fuck of beauty.
Speaker 2: No, but like this is the Natasha Rothwell thing of
Speaker 2: I'm going to power through and it's gonna be compelling
Speaker 2: enough and you're gonna fucking get love it.
Speaker 5: If there's anything about me, it's like it takes a
Speaker 5: lot for me to give up generally, yeah, and to
Speaker 5: the point of like, and I think it's also my brain.
Speaker 5: I'm neurospicy a lot, and so I love solving problems. Yes,
Speaker 5: so like a no or like some like I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 5: that's just I'll figure it out or I'll.
Speaker 3: Work through it's an obstacle currently, yes, but it will
Speaker 3: not be the definitive answer correct.
Speaker 2: But to be neurospicy and to be like collaborative is
Speaker 2: killer combo.
Speaker 1: I feel.
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, it's a one two punch. But I
Speaker 5: also have learned more of myself in my forties. It's
Speaker 5: like I'm now a boundaried battie because I know that
Speaker 5: I recharged solo and I.
Speaker 4: Knew that before, but I I.
Speaker 5: Am a people pleaser, recovering people pleaser, so like I
Speaker 5: would exhaust myself as I'm sure you know, it's just
Speaker 5: like I will give until there's nothing left.
Speaker 1: When did you clock that and adjust that?
Speaker 4: I want to say in my thirties. I felt that.
Speaker 5: Well, SNL kind of happened in my mid thirties, and
Speaker 5: it was around that time where it was just like,
Speaker 5: you know, you understand when you're on the show, you
Speaker 5: have to promise them at everything and making time for
Speaker 5: other people came at like a cost, and so it
Speaker 5: was one of those things of like I could hang
Speaker 5: out with you and make you feel good, and I
Speaker 5: would feel good for making you feel good, but then
Speaker 5: I would be like a shell of a human tomorrow,
Speaker 5: And so having to make.
Speaker 4: Those calls and then I think it's still taken me.
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm still in the process of releasing the
Speaker 5: guilt I have for choosing me.
Speaker 1: And do you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: So like, even though I've learned how to do it,
Speaker 5: it's still like not letting go of that guilt and
Speaker 5: consider myself worthy of you know, the choice.
Speaker 2: But the guilt probably And this is not like me
Speaker 2: saying this in a dire way, Like I've learned to
Speaker 2: just not accept it but live with it because it's
Speaker 2: going to regenerate itself with every interaction, with every choice
Speaker 2: you make for yourself. It comes with that little tax.
Speaker 2: Yeah you know what I mean, Like guilt tax.
Speaker 4: There's a guilt tax. Gilt tax.
Speaker 5: And I think too, like the the amount of guilt
Speaker 5: tax you pay decreases the longer you're in therapy. So
Speaker 5: for me, the more I've worked on myself, I used
Speaker 5: to have to pay a heavy toll and now I
Speaker 5: pay a lot less and maybe I'll have an easy
Speaker 5: pass at one point and I don't have to worry
Speaker 5: about it.
Speaker 2: But then they'll throw a congestion price. Yeah, it's impossible.
Speaker 3: That is It's I think for me, it was like
Speaker 3: it was honestly the pandemic. It was being forced to
Speaker 3: be alone that made me realize, like, maybe I've always
Speaker 3: needed this, you know what I mean saying.
Speaker 4: I was three months in and I was just like,
Speaker 4: I'm good.
Speaker 1: Do you remember feeling like that? I was like, oh wow, okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you deal with the anxiety of when
Speaker 3: things lifted. I remember feeling like, am I crazy and
Speaker 3: weird for feeling like I don't want to necessarily go
Speaker 3: back to the life I had because I was exhausted.
Speaker 1: All the time.
Speaker 3: Because I think that it also connects back to us
Speaker 3: having to grind so hard, like I think that we
Speaker 3: all have different experiences of not being in exactly the
Speaker 3: mold of what was you know, out there being shown
Speaker 3: as like a successful comedian whatever it is, and I
Speaker 3: remember feeling like, oh, I have no choice but to
Speaker 3: exhaust myself because they won't just give the opportunities there
Speaker 3: will be someone that they see in a more one
Speaker 3: to one way. Yeah, so all of a sudden, your
Speaker 3: wheels have spun so fast in your twenties and into
Speaker 3: your thirties, and then something says like, hey, cosmically we're stopping.
Speaker 1: And then it's like that was.
Speaker 3: When I was like, oh, thank god, I'm in therapy
Speaker 3: because I have to deal with the fact that.
Speaker 1: I don't want to rejoin society.
Speaker 2: Yeah but wait, so would you would you say that
Speaker 2: it's like an opposite track in terms of like what
Speaker 2: Mal goes through and how to dial loan. It's like,
Speaker 2: this is someone who wants to sort of like break
Speaker 2: out of her solitude in a way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's also I basically wrote the show
Speaker 5: is kind of like a love letter to that unhealed
Speaker 5: version of myself, where it's just like I don't even
Speaker 5: know if she.
Speaker 4: Knows herself enough.
Speaker 5: To decide what it is, you know, Like, so it's
Speaker 5: breaking out of the comfort of.
Speaker 4: The known and going into the unknown.
Speaker 5: And I think in doing that, it's not guaranteed that
Speaker 5: you're gonna love it, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 5: you might hit And that's why we always called her
Speaker 5: like our human rumba, like you hit wall.
Speaker 4: After wall after wall, but you're still getting your shit clean.
Speaker 5: And for her being able to like make those mistakes
Speaker 5: and like take risks and figure out if she is
Speaker 5: a people person. You don't know if you don't allow
Speaker 5: people in your life. Yeah, I do think that, like aspirationally,
Speaker 5: I tacked her affinity for being around people onto the
Speaker 5: character because for me, and I love people, but I'm
Speaker 5: a small dose girl. Yeah, I mean, like I love
Speaker 5: give me like y'all too conversation.
Speaker 4: I will talk for eight hours.
Speaker 1: And then we'll be good for a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's perfect.
Speaker 4: And that's perfect, do you know what I mean? Yeah,
Speaker 4: A room full of people like.
Speaker 3: No, see how are you the other night? Then at
Speaker 3: Vanity Fair while we saw you? Like because that that,
Speaker 3: I get really anxious about those things. And then I
Speaker 3: find when I'm there, I'm okay and I'm actually like
Speaker 3: there's even enjoying it sometimes.
Speaker 1: But it takes me a lot to drag ass there.
Speaker 5: I okay, how do I say this so I get
Speaker 5: invited back?
Speaker 1: No? No, no, no no, we love we love being there.
Speaker 4: So I loved being there.
Speaker 5: My default is not that environment of course, and so
Speaker 5: I parked myself towards the entrance and I people watch.
Speaker 4: That's kind of my happy place.
Speaker 5: So I was just watching the like the looks come in,
Speaker 5: watching the people watching conversations. And I tend to default
Speaker 5: in any environment, not just high stakes oscar weekend parties.
Speaker 5: I want to find a corner I want to watch,
Speaker 5: and then I want to find like a person or
Speaker 5: a couple of people that I'm going to have probably
Speaker 5: an oversharing conversation, you know what.
Speaker 4: I'm like, like whatever, like let's get in. So what
Speaker 4: about your father?
Speaker 5: You know, like type of conversations anchor, And so I
Speaker 5: went there. I took up her paranolol because weded blocking.
Speaker 5: So that way my nerves do would be the best
Speaker 5: of me. I brought the director of development of my
Speaker 5: production company.
Speaker 4: And she was tasked, but she was tasked by my
Speaker 4: publicist to make sure that I did turns around the room.
Speaker 3: That's an amazing make sure that Natasha does at least
Speaker 3: some turns and turns around the room.
Speaker 5: So I would sit there and then she'd be like
Speaker 5: you ready to go do a lap? And I'm like okay,
Speaker 5: and then.
Speaker 2: I do around the room the room, I should have
Speaker 2: said that as the pop culture that changed my life.
Speaker 3: The mini series about absolutely, but Greece is I mean,
Speaker 3: connecting Greece as Austinian is important.
Speaker 4: I feel like I did some work just then.
Speaker 1: You did. What you did was you talk to children.
Speaker 3: I taught the children, since we genuinely talked children children.
Speaker 1: The children, and now it's like, let's go back and
Speaker 1: teach him. Okay, so you did. You did a couple,
Speaker 1: you did a walk about the room, and it was good.
Speaker 5: It was good, and it's it's I don't this sounds
Speaker 5: so like fucking tweet and like and like, but it
Speaker 5: was so cool to see people that I've only ever
Speaker 5: seen TV in film and like, I'm not someone who
Speaker 5: fangirls because I do feel that there's a distance between
Speaker 5: me and them even though I'm in the same room.
Speaker 5: And this isn't some kind of like woe was me,
Speaker 5: Like you know, it's poster syndrome bullshit. It's literally just
Speaker 5: like you reside on that stratosphere and you're allowed to
Speaker 5: be there, and.
Speaker 4: I just my joy is just observing, you know.
Speaker 5: So that was my journey that night was just like
Speaker 5: watching I did go up to one person. You'll never
Speaker 5: guess one person out of all of the people there,
Speaker 5: I didn't approach anyone.
Speaker 2: But this one is this someone I don't think who
Speaker 2: we saw. Is it someone who was like has been around.
Speaker 1: For a while or a long time.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna say. I'm going to say Billy Crystal.
Speaker 4: Oh was he now?
Speaker 3: Because now I'm thinking, because honestly, what I'm realizing is
Speaker 3: that we did what you said, but it was with
Speaker 3: John Ham at the bar.
Speaker 1: We were so happy to just park with it.
Speaker 3: And so now I'm realizing I didn't see a lot
Speaker 3: of people, so I can't even guess. So I'm just
Speaker 3: gonna throw out of guests and say list goal.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 4: John Waters.
Speaker 5: John Waters was there, so he was Oh my god,
Speaker 5: so University of Maryland, Marylyn, Tracy Turnblatt.
Speaker 4: She was a fatty batty before I even knew I
Speaker 4: like could be one.
Speaker 5: And he was standing there in his suit with a
Speaker 5: mustachetron on pink huge sneakers, and then all these like
Speaker 5: gorgeous starlets were just walking past him, no, no, not
Speaker 5: knowing that he was. And so he was by himself,
Speaker 5: and I was just like, just do Itasha, just do it.
Speaker 5: You can go. I was like, excuse me, mister Waters,
Speaker 5: and he's like, yes. It was just like, my name
Speaker 5: is Natasha Rothell. I'm a huge fan. I went to
Speaker 5: University of Maryland. He's like Marilyn Baltimore.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 5: And I was just like and I just thank you
Speaker 5: for Tracy Turnlett like and everything, and he was just
Speaker 5: so warm and then I just kind of like stood
Speaker 5: there and then right away.
Speaker 1: That's such a good moment, and I was just.
Speaker 4: Like, I mean, he's such an icon, such an icon icon.
Speaker 5: That was like a whole moment, and I felt like
Speaker 5: he felt like he was even though he wasn't against
Speaker 5: a wall, but he was like by himself on his phone.
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, I see you.
Speaker 1: Yeah Water even you were just like yeah, Pard, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And hairspray by the way, like in obvious ways
Speaker 2: and also in spiritual ways that are like not as
Speaker 2: obvious camanic piece to Grease, I think, yes, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I think that like they both dealt with different
Speaker 5: eras obviously, and I feel like the yeah, the just
Speaker 5: the culture of Baltimore. He just was such he's the
Speaker 5: you know, the the Grand Poe of Baltimore.
Speaker 4: Yeah, could be po, but I think it's him.
Speaker 1: It's him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wait, okay, but this is the thing, like the
Speaker 2: distance that we feel at these events between ourselves and
Speaker 2: like the people that are walking by.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it like it works in every direction.
Speaker 2: Because I was saying this on our last episode, like
Speaker 2: we were just talking, chatting it up. I think like
Speaker 2: it was right before I saw you, when we saw you.
Speaker 2: The person who ran up to me and tapped me
Speaker 2: on the shoulder and was like, oh my god, thank
Speaker 2: god you're here. Her, You'll never guess. Megan the Stallion
Speaker 2: was a mouth.
Speaker 1: She was like oh. She was like hey, oh hi,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, thank god you're here. Like I don't
Speaker 1: know anybody here. And I was just like Meg, Meg,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about?
Speaker 4: Girl? You're like titty out Meg.
Speaker 1: She looked amazing. I turned around. I looked at her
Speaker 1: and I just go period.
Speaker 5: And she goes back period, come in And I was
Speaker 5: just like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: But I feel like everyone.
Speaker 5: I mean, I feel like that level of like social
Speaker 5: anxiety feels so unique and it's hard to accept that
Speaker 5: someone else like her is like, oh my god, I
Speaker 5: might have said the wrong thing, just like my Ariola
Speaker 5: showing there mine was page six.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, there's a little there's a little slip.
Speaker 5: It was fine, it was yeah, but no, I feel
Speaker 5: like I have my mind just runs a mile a minute.
Speaker 5: And to know that someone like her is also a
Speaker 5: head case, it's kind of It's nice, but.
Speaker 4: It's hard to understand.
Speaker 3: That's what you have to remember, is it's like, not
Speaker 3: only are these all human beings, but they are also
Speaker 3: human beings who are in the arts and at one point,
Speaker 3: like we're just like the weirdos that wanted to be accepted,
Speaker 3: et cetera. And this is a big night for pretty
Speaker 3: much everyone. Of course, you know somewhere in the crowd
Speaker 3: and there I'm sure we had our like major ego narcissists,
Speaker 3: but like not that we talk to, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. It was kind of nice, yeah, bringing it
Speaker 3: back to the White Lotus. What I love about it too,
Speaker 3: is it feels like Mike really gets together people who
Speaker 3: are freaks in a way. It's like it feels like
Speaker 3: a theater troop in a way. It's not like a
Speaker 3: collection of celebrities. Like of course, there are those names
Speaker 3: that you kind of just know that pop out like
Speaker 3: your Jennifer Coolige or Aubrey Plaza. That feels like there's
Speaker 3: moments of like, oh your Parker Posey, like we know who.
Speaker 1: She is, like gods.
Speaker 3: But what I love is that it's giving It's like
Speaker 3: a community of people who are you know, as actors,
Speaker 3: artists and giving them the platform to now be tearing
Speaker 3: it up on the most popular show in the yeah world,
Speaker 3: in the world.
Speaker 4: It's so insane because truly season one was meant to.
Speaker 5: Be a limited series one and done, and so for
Speaker 5: it to be what it is now, you would think
Speaker 5: it would change the recipe, but Mike has not changed it.
Speaker 5: It's like theater camp, Like you go there and every
Speaker 5: single person there loves the craft these words like the
Speaker 5: craft and like being able.
Speaker 4: I remember when I got to.
Speaker 5: Set, just flew in crashed that night, walked down a
Speaker 5: set just to watch, and I stayed and to watch
Speaker 5: the girls. They were shooting like their first breakfast scene,
Speaker 5: the three Ladies Yes, And I she was like, Oh,
Speaker 5: I'm just watching Masterclass, Like I'm just like watching them cook.
Speaker 4: It was so cool to be like.
Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, we're back, and it felt like the same
Speaker 5: pure show that I was on originally it's the DNA.
Speaker 4: Everything is still there.
Speaker 5: Even though they got a bigger budget, you know what
Speaker 5: I mean, but more cast members, but like each person,
Speaker 5: I mean, like you said, everyone's a freak. Everyone's obsessed
Speaker 5: about what they do, and each of them bring something
Speaker 5: so special and unique.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm working with Leslie Bibb now and I
Speaker 3: was watching her like process and I'm like, wow, I didn't.
Speaker 3: I was like, she really has like this amazing process
Speaker 3: and she's so excellent.
Speaker 1: And then I.
Speaker 3: Obviously knew she was cast in White Lotus, but I'm
Speaker 3: watching White Lotus and I was thinking back to, you know,
Speaker 3: watching her do what she does, and I'm like, this
Speaker 3: has to be like such an exciting environment because you know,
Speaker 3: that's the way Carrie Coon does it.
Speaker 1: Like I'm loving Michelle Mamhead on the show.
Speaker 3: And also again like the idea of the very specific
Speaker 3: examination of three old friends on a vacation, Like it's.
Speaker 4: One of my favorite storylines.
Speaker 5: I told when I cause I binged the whole show
Speaker 5: when I got all the scripts and so, and that
Speaker 5: was one of the first things I was just like,
Speaker 5: you have embodied adult female friendship in a way where
Speaker 5: I'm just like it was uncanny.
Speaker 2: And something specific, so specific about one of them being
Speaker 2: a TV star.
Speaker 3: Oh god, that's paid for it. Yes, I feel like
Speaker 3: and now now that we're getting to the point where
Speaker 3: it's like you kind of get the sense that she's
Speaker 3: you know, gonna maybe use that might bring it down,
Speaker 3: might bring it up, like might might do the big
Speaker 3: boss vacation friend thing.
Speaker 1: It's getting so.
Speaker 3: Thick in that way, and just like the way that
Speaker 3: she ticks and the way I can't decide. And this
Speaker 3: is a huge testament. Like I'm talking to some people
Speaker 3: who are like, oh, those women really hate each other.
Speaker 3: But then I'm like, no, I think they really love
Speaker 3: each other, but I'm just frustrated by the way life
Speaker 3: has changed them. Yeah, and they're I think they're all
Speaker 3: really trying to connect with each other. I don't think
Speaker 3: that it's so of course, they've got their envies and
Speaker 3: jealousies and like their own personal insecurities, but I don't
Speaker 3: think we're watching three women that hate each other.
Speaker 5: Well, I think that, like, and I don't know if
Speaker 5: you guys find this, Like when I go back home
Speaker 5: for the holidays or whatever, you revert back to the
Speaker 5: version of yourself when you're around people who knew you
Speaker 5: when thank you, And so I feel like what we're
Speaker 5: seeing is them in high school in middle school behaving
Speaker 5: with or trying to communicate with their actions.
Speaker 1: Instead of their words, right yes, And.
Speaker 5: So there's this passive aggressiveness, and I think it looks
Speaker 5: like a lack of emotional intelligence when they all possess it,
Speaker 5: but they're opting not to, I think because they're when
Speaker 5: when the when these three are gathered, they turn back
Speaker 5: into the versions of their self that felt jilted, that
Speaker 5: felt like they did everything, that felt like their beauty
Speaker 5: was all that there is. And so watching them play
Speaker 5: those subtleties and then they're the tension is they're trying
Speaker 5: to like resist who they were and become who they
Speaker 5: are are. And then they're also all trying to become
Speaker 5: something else, like they're trying to grow together. So it's
Speaker 5: like such an interesting intersection of all of those like
Speaker 5: all of that tension, you know.
Speaker 2: Well, like when they go into town and they get
Speaker 2: like hosed down by these kids that it kind of
Speaker 2: is the reset for the or No, it's like them
Speaker 2: being shoved back into adolescens in a way, like yeah,
Speaker 2: being picked on and then the rest of that day
Speaker 2: plays out in a way where they're like trying to
Speaker 2: like compete for like male attention, and that feels like
Speaker 2: the most dangerous, treacherous teenage circumstance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's so well crafted in that.
Speaker 3: I mean from the first episode her single sob like
Speaker 3: a child cut too, I mean, she's level she and
Speaker 3: then like Leslie like in that episode where it's revealed
Speaker 3: that she's got let's just say, political differences, and the
Speaker 3: way she like looks at them longingly, like but there
Speaker 3: is such a disappointment in herself, like like are they right?
Speaker 3: And I think that that that's something that's really jumping
Speaker 3: out towards the end here is they are returning to
Speaker 3: a childlike state, like every single time it's insinuated that
Speaker 3: they're old, the way that Michelle like her line readings
Speaker 3: of panic about like what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: We're not old. We can still have fun to the point.
Speaker 3: Where they're gonna push They're gonna push each other into
Speaker 3: a situation that is truly dire and uncomfortable because youth
Speaker 3: is all that matters to her, or that she's been
Speaker 3: told that that's all that should matter, right, right, and
Speaker 3: there's just it's really he's done it again, if you
Speaker 3: can believe it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how are how are you? And John?
Speaker 2: I'm curious how are you guys playing those interactions because
Speaker 2: there is like palpable fear from you yea. And I'm
Speaker 2: feeling it watching from home, like, oh my god, no, Natasha,
Speaker 2: like you're like terror.
Speaker 1: It's terrifying.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And it's also I think so we we had him
Speaker 5: on set the whole time, but.
Speaker 4: It was a secret.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, he hung out with us, but it wasn't
Speaker 5: a ton in the beginning, and like it was just
Speaker 5: like trying like.
Speaker 4: All that kind of stuff.
Speaker 5: And so I think being on set with him was
Speaker 5: always a treat because I was like, oh, I get
Speaker 5: some John time today, you know, like you know, because
Speaker 5: he was.
Speaker 4: Off exploring or doing whatever.
Speaker 5: And he is such a chameleon that like in those
Speaker 5: moments where he's just like looking at me and then
Speaker 5: he kind of tilts his head and smiles, it's just
Speaker 5: like my like, so.
Speaker 1: It just works on you on like a primal level, yes,
Speaker 1: like like.
Speaker 5: And also it's just like it preys upon all of
Speaker 5: sort of like my natural inclinations to like be liked
Speaker 5: and wanted and like why does he hate me? And
Speaker 5: like what does he want to do? And like you know,
Speaker 5: how can I fix this? And like oh he's a
Speaker 5: bad guy, and like, well do you want to hurt?
Speaker 5: Like there's she's filled with fear and curiosity at the
Speaker 5: same time, and that tension is where she's living, which
Speaker 5: is just like no way to be and John is
Speaker 5: just so and he Yeah, his character's so antithetical to
Speaker 5: who he is as a person, and so when he
Speaker 5: just plays those uh when he comes.
Speaker 4: Out and surprises me, huh.
Speaker 5: I watched it and screamed along with myself, that's how
Speaker 5: much I was, Like, Oh, I was like there he goes.
Speaker 1: Yes. Wow.
Speaker 3: So just to like ask about Mike White as a director,
Speaker 3: because like he does everything, but I feel like I'm
Speaker 3: very curious as to the process of like the scene work,
Speaker 3: because that is what I think is so amazing about
Speaker 3: the show is the dialogue and the scene work and
Speaker 3: the small things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is he encouraging of any improv.
Speaker 3: Like like I would imagine with you someone that's got
Speaker 3: such a strong background and someone that he trusts and
Speaker 3: has done this, like or is it kind of clinical
Speaker 3: on the page? Because I could see it being either he.
Speaker 5: Plays, so we're there's a scene in next week's episode.
Speaker 4: I won't spoil anything.
Speaker 1: Seven you mean seven? I don't know.
Speaker 4: It's not seven? Is it seven?
Speaker 1: If it's up through six, we can talk about and
Speaker 1: talk about it.
Speaker 4: Okay, then I won't talk about it.
Speaker 5: But what I will say there are moments where I improvise,
Speaker 5: and there are moments where he wants to get it
Speaker 5: as written but will give you direction to play with.
Speaker 1: It A fun run, A fun run, yeah, but he.
Speaker 4: It's less a fun run. It's more just like he
Speaker 4: wants options.
Speaker 5: And I remember I told the cast this because like
Speaker 5: he's unlike any director I've ever worked with, and again
Speaker 5: just being such a people pleaser and you know, the
Speaker 5: ever the good student. If you give me a note,
Speaker 5: I'm going to do that. No, yeah, and I will
Speaker 5: not vary from that. And so like he will come
Speaker 5: in and give like a completely opposite note. And so
Speaker 5: I take that as I totally fucked up that last note.
Speaker 5: And I remember talking to him about it like season
Speaker 5: one and he was like, no, I just want options.
Speaker 5: He's like, he mail, did I want options? And so
Speaker 5: and I also know him to be the kind of
Speaker 5: director like he's not going to move on until he
Speaker 5: has it. And that's the benefit of like being directed
Speaker 5: by the guy who's also working alongside and amazing editor,
Speaker 5: John Valerio and John he's on set, so the editor's
Speaker 5: there with you, so they know, oh, we got that.
Speaker 5: So I had to take my ego off the table,
Speaker 5: and that allowed me to work with him as a
Speaker 5: director in a way that felt like I was having
Speaker 5: fun yecause I was like I could play around and
Speaker 5: he also knows like my improv chops and so, and
Speaker 5: some of the scenes were Belinda's like, you know, having
Speaker 5: a little bit of a comedic moment.
Speaker 4: He's just like.
Speaker 2: That is where the comfort and the trust lies in
Speaker 2: terms of an actor and director, where it's like you're
Speaker 2: not going to move on until work until you're happy.
Speaker 2: And that way, I'm comfortent in the knowledge that like,
Speaker 2: you got it, like that, yeah, you have what you need.
Speaker 3: It takes a minute to learn that, though, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, because I think and maybe this again
Speaker 3: speaks to the fact that it was a lot of
Speaker 3: self grinding and hard work in so many different areas
Speaker 3: that there is tends to be. I think, especially when
Speaker 3: I was like first starting out booking jobs. I don't
Speaker 3: know how you guys feel, but it was really never
Speaker 3: enough in a way that I realized at one point
Speaker 3: was actually hurting me, not helping me, Like it wasn't
Speaker 3: helping me to walk away from every setup being like
Speaker 3: I didn't do a good enough job. Because also people
Speaker 3: can see that, and what they're thinking as a director is, Oh,
Speaker 3: they don't trust me, they don't know that I got this,
Speaker 3: when that relationship is one of the most important things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, when.
Speaker 5: You learn that of also, just like there's that inner
Speaker 5: critic right that I've had to wrestle my whole life
Speaker 5: of just like that not enoughness in literally every aspect
Speaker 5: of my life. And I feel like the place that
Speaker 5: I've gotten to, I have such confidence in my creative
Speaker 5: and professional life, and that is trickling down into my
Speaker 5: personal life. But it took me a long time to
Speaker 5: be able to, for example, create an award winning, critically
Speaker 5: acclaimed TV show and have it canceled and to be like,
Speaker 5: I did that shit, Yeah, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Where it broke down.
Speaker 4: I don't know where it.
Speaker 5: Broke down, but I can look back at what I've
Speaker 5: done with a sense of pride and not not enoughness.
Speaker 5: And that was a moment where I was just like,
Speaker 5: oh a bitch had some growth and that's.
Speaker 1: A speech at the Indie Spirits. Was I like stood up? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 5: I mean how the dissonance of like accepting award for
Speaker 5: a show that's canceled.
Speaker 4: It was just kind of like it.
Speaker 1: All came up.
Speaker 5: But I think that like that that not enoughness. I
Speaker 5: think when I reacted to that news, I obviously had feelings,
Speaker 5: but when I was able to yeah, the the boomerang back,
Speaker 5: you know, just being able to come back to myself
Speaker 5: and know that, like I did what I was supposed
Speaker 5: to do and there's circumstances out of my control and
Speaker 5: sometimes things aren't fair.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you take this and you and it extrapolates
Speaker 2: forward into like the rest of your career. I can't
Speaker 2: wait for who did I marry?
Speaker 4: Thanks babe. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be fucking I mean, it's what a saga.
Speaker 4: It was such a saga, and there's so much more.
Speaker 4: You don't even.
Speaker 1: Know are you? Are you talking about Teresa?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 5: It's and it's so lovely and Marty Knoxon, who's unreal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about unreel. Can wait?
Speaker 5: Though. When I moved to La, I went to my
Speaker 5: very first like LA thing I did. I went to
Speaker 5: an f YC panel.
Speaker 3: For there everybody, yeah, everybody, sure apple be that should
Speaker 3: have been And I mean when like that was, that
Speaker 3: was amazing.
Speaker 1: The whole cast is everything.
Speaker 5: But she's with me, we're co creating and so and
Speaker 5: she's Yeah, her her writing and everything is incredible. And
Speaker 5: she'll tell you she lived she lived a similar story,
Speaker 5: so like her, she's such a value add But yeah,
Speaker 5: hopefully we'll be bringing that sin.
Speaker 1: I love it. Well. I've always been curious.
Speaker 2: I've never gone to ask you about this, and now
Speaker 2: I'm like a new web as they say, like a
Speaker 2: new otaku. Like I went to Japan for the first
Speaker 2: time and I'm like, this is this is my place?
Speaker 2: But what was your what was your time in Tokyo?
Speaker 2: Like so differenttause you were working It was like.
Speaker 5: Yeah, every time in your life in my I was
Speaker 5: twenty six twenty seven when I got there. I was
Speaker 5: teaching English part time. I started performing at the Tokyo
Speaker 5: comedy Store, which is like their version of Boom Chicago. Yeah,
Speaker 5: it's just like they had X that's performing for a
Speaker 5: lot of like largely expect audience.
Speaker 4: It was wild. I was black in Japan, Barack wasn't
Speaker 4: in office yet.
Speaker 5: He got elected that year, and I just remember like
Speaker 5: riding my bike around town and people shouting.
Speaker 1: Like oh bumma, and I would.
Speaker 5: Just like just like wave my guess, like I was
Speaker 5: just like owning it.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 5: People would even pre his inauguration, like people would take
Speaker 5: pictures with me, pull my.
Speaker 1: Hair, just like oh God. But I did mind it, Okay.
Speaker 5: I didn't mind it because it came from a place
Speaker 5: of curiosity and it wasn't steep the fucking like trauma
Speaker 5: response that is living in America as a black person,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: So like it was just like little like people were just.
Speaker 2: Like, oh my god, how long did it take for
Speaker 2: you to like have that understanding of like, oh, this
Speaker 2: is this is just secure pretty.
Speaker 5: Quickly because it's such an homogenous country, and the only
Speaker 5: kind of like racism that I peeped it was like
Speaker 5: if you were African American, they were cool with you,
Speaker 5: but if you were from the continent Wow.
Speaker 4: They were kind of like a little suspicious.
Speaker 5: And I didn't know that because one of the guys
Speaker 5: that I was working with at the school where I
Speaker 5: was teaching, he was African American, but he looked like
Speaker 5: he was from the continent. And we were going to
Speaker 5: this like karaoke bar and they wouldn't let him in
Speaker 5: and we were just kind of like, well, what's going on.
Speaker 5: He's like, I know this happened. Sometimes, let's go to
Speaker 5: another one. So that was wild. But I loved it,
Speaker 5: like the ID is the best time.
Speaker 2: I loved it and I was obsessed with it. And
Speaker 2: then towards the end it dawned on me. I was like,
Speaker 2: the reason the toilets are so clean and all that
Speaker 2: shit is because the reason why everyone knows where they
Speaker 2: have to go and fall in line is because it's homogeneous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like, is that is that like a worthwhile
Speaker 1: thing to aspire to? You know?
Speaker 4: What do I'll say about that?
Speaker 5: I don't aspire to homogeny, but I think when you
Speaker 5: are in an environment where you are othered, you see
Speaker 5: yourself more clearly. I felt like I was wearing polka
Speaker 5: dots to a stripes party. Everything that I was trying
Speaker 5: to run from I saw more acutely, and for me
Speaker 5: being in an environment where I felt so seen and
Speaker 5: so watched, it was just like, okay, bitch, audit who
Speaker 5: you are and who you want to be and how
Speaker 5: you present yourself. And I think that, like, while it's
Speaker 5: not ideal, I do think moments of homogeny can remind
Speaker 5: you of who you are and require you to show
Speaker 5: show up for yourself. And I think that when I
Speaker 5: was there, you know, I was so you know, I
Speaker 5: was had lived in DC, graduated from University of Maryland.
Speaker 5: I knew I wanted to go to New York or
Speaker 5: I was terrified. I was like, I want to live
Speaker 5: some life. So I did this like a little adventure
Speaker 5: and wherever you.
Speaker 4: Go, there you are.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And I feel like that's also.
Speaker 3: Like, especially when you're on vacation, you're supposed to relax.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's one of the greatest things about it.
Speaker 3: Is it really it picks apart the idea that it's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm relaxing and now I'm alone with my brain and
Speaker 3: I'm along with these people who are close to me
Speaker 3: that I've elected to spend time with and their brain
Speaker 3: with no tech.
Speaker 4: I did that once for a week.
Speaker 5: I did a Buddhist meditation retreat for four days, five days,
Speaker 5: four nights.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, this was like no, no tech, no speaking damn.
Speaker 1: Oh I've heard of these speaking things.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah no, And.
Speaker 1: Do you hear the thoughts more loudly or what? Like,
Speaker 1: what's what's going on?
Speaker 5: I felt like I was at like a rock concert, yeah,
Speaker 5: because there.
Speaker 4: Was no way to And here's what I did.
Speaker 5: So, like again, rule follower, before we entered the silence,
Speaker 5: you could ask questions and I was just like books.
Speaker 5: I brought books and he's like, nope, because you're just
Speaker 5: like distracting yourself. And I was just like, so no books, no,
Speaker 5: not like I'm trying to go through all things, like
Speaker 5: I know, no gadgets. But I was like, what are
Speaker 5: the tactile sort of like analog things I could do
Speaker 5: to like again, and he was just like journaling. That's
Speaker 5: the one thing that was permitted. My hand was thrown
Speaker 5: up gang signs.
Speaker 1: But I wrote so much.
Speaker 4: I was like I was like.
Speaker 5: Cramping because I needed to have place to put it.
Speaker 5: But I will say, yeah, it was clarity, clarity, timesten.
Speaker 4: It was amazing.
Speaker 1: Eventually, you got there.
Speaker 5: Eventually I got there like kicking and screaming clarity. And
Speaker 5: then now I'm also just like glued to my phone.
Speaker 3: Party one of the most anxiety inducing scenes of all
Speaker 3: of White Lotus so far, and I obviously it was
Speaker 3: because it was the first scene and I was like
Speaker 3: waiting to see what was happening. But when they when
Speaker 3: Zion was sitting in meditation, I was just like it.
Speaker 1: Always just it makes me anxious.
Speaker 3: I know people always feel like, you know, to go, yeah,
Speaker 3: go home and meditate. I'm like, see, you're driving me nuts.
Speaker 3: And I also think that there's something to that in
Speaker 3: the whole show, this idea of what happens when you
Speaker 3: sit with yourself. Are you even able to entertain that idea?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And I just think those themes are becoming even more
Speaker 3: clear as we get to the end, like who are
Speaker 3: you really?
Speaker 4: Who are you really?
Speaker 5: And it's yeah, it's just reconciling the like who you
Speaker 5: want to be and who you are, And I think
Speaker 5: that's the constant struggle. And I think the more you
Speaker 5: resist the truth of who you are and don't adjust
Speaker 5: your aspirations to be in line with who you are,
Speaker 5: that's just where the tension lies. I think Mike does
Speaker 5: that so beautifully in the show. You have all of
Speaker 5: these people like hitting who they are like head on.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just really interesting because in now thinking
Speaker 3: about this thing of like the absence of tech and
Speaker 3: all that stuff, it's like it's a place that's asking
Speaker 3: you to let go of all those things. And now
Speaker 3: we have you know, the older ratlyft gentleman like paniccause
Speaker 3: you can't communicate needing to do that to like get information,
Speaker 3: and it's driving them crazy. Parker has lost her drugs,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, she's gonna be without her things.
Speaker 3: I think honestly, Patrick Schwarzenegger, no one wants to fuck
Speaker 3: him in that entire place. And he's got this like
Speaker 3: thing in his head that that's where his power lies
Speaker 3: and his like, you know, vitality and sexual prowess, and
Speaker 3: he's just getting all he can get that from is
Speaker 3: his goddamn brother.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And it's it's just been a really interesting specific test
Speaker 3: of all those things.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, and it's I think too, like with
Speaker 5: each of them, you see the ugly coming to the surface.
Speaker 5: And I feel like with Zion played by the very
Speaker 5: symmetrical Nicholas beautiful man.
Speaker 4: It was a very like edible complex moment.
Speaker 3: I was like, my, my, my, like, and I was.
Speaker 1: Like, here's in the pool in the last episode.
Speaker 3: And I turned to Greta and I was like, when
Speaker 3: he gets out of this water, it's going to be
Speaker 3: on the site, it's gonna be something else.
Speaker 1: And low Ball to make it worse, he's like such
Speaker 1: a good.
Speaker 5: Dude, saying to him we had dinner like the first
Speaker 5: week we got there, and I was just like, you were.
Speaker 4: Too symmetrical to be this nice, and I was, and he.
Speaker 5: Was just like what I was like, No, it's like
Speaker 5: a lot of guys who look like you aren't this nice.
Speaker 4: But no, I think, like, you know, everyone's very ugly.
Speaker 1: Trust me, I've seen the ball, You've done it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but yeah, I think like everyone's working on their ship.
Speaker 5: But I think like with Zion, you see it's bringing
Speaker 5: his good out yea, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 5: he's rising to the occasion. So I do think that
Speaker 5: like things that test us, you know, they yeah, they
Speaker 5: prove your metal.
Speaker 4: I'm so scared about what's going to happen, terrified, and the.
Speaker 3: Thing is like it's like it would be one thing,
Speaker 3: if we knew this was a show where like they
Speaker 3: wouldn't kill boring, but that's not what this is. I mean,
Speaker 3: we saw Jennifer Coolidge fall right off that boat and
Speaker 3: hit her head.
Speaker 4: I screamed.
Speaker 1: People think I knew.
Speaker 4: I had no idea about that.
Speaker 1: So your insight into season two was nothing nothing.
Speaker 5: I was at home watching him, like I love this
Speaker 5: for her, and then like watching and yeah, when she
Speaker 5: fell off, I screamed, and.
Speaker 1: Then perfect character. It's so tough.
Speaker 5: And famously she's she hates the water being on it
Speaker 5: and gets famously seasick. They had a dazzled bucket bucket
Speaker 5: for her season one to puke into. So I remember
Speaker 5: saying to Mike, I was like the cruelty of this moment,
Speaker 5: and he was like, well, I had to write, you know,
Speaker 5: she had to do.
Speaker 3: And one of the most iconic scenes is the ashes
Speaker 3: in the water during Fantasy.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They put her on the water
Speaker 1: both seasons. Yeah, she's on vacation on the water for sure.
Speaker 5: It's so funny, and Mike and her like best best
Speaker 5: best friends, and so it's so funny.
Speaker 4: I'm just like, oh my, you're gonna have to pay.
Speaker 1: Back back is mean. I hope Belinda kills Greg. This
Speaker 1: is what I'm hoping, That's what I hope.
Speaker 2: I'm just comforted to like see you and be in
Speaker 2: the same space as you because I'm just.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm alive, because I know you're alive and here.
Speaker 3: Speaking of being here, we probably should move into I
Speaker 3: don't think it, no, honey, which is where we're all
Speaker 3: asked to be here in president in a sixty second
Speaker 3: takedown of culture.
Speaker 1: That absolutely must occur.
Speaker 3: And I feel I need to speak to some response
Speaker 3: that happens to the White Lotus this season. I just
Speaker 3: want to I want to check you and truly, I
Speaker 3: think make a point about let's just let me just talk.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's Matt Rodgers. I don't think so many as
Speaker 1: time starts now.
Speaker 3: I don't think so honey. People saying that the White
Speaker 3: Lotus incests this season is too much. Where were you
Speaker 3: during Game of Thrones? Thing to say when it was
Speaker 3: heterosexual incest and then all of a sudden, now that
Speaker 3: are Toto sexual incests. Now that we see some making
Speaker 3: out and some jacking off, all of a sudden, people
Speaker 3: are up in larching. Sorry, there was incestual procreation on
Speaker 3: Game of Thrones and you said nothing. Maybe you thought
Speaker 3: it was a little silly, but you weren't like it's
Speaker 3: too much for me. Close friends of ours saying that's disgusting.
Speaker 3: I don't I don't want to see that. I don't
Speaker 3: want to go there. This is white lotus. You didn't
Speaker 3: think it was gonna go there. I don't think so. Honey,
Speaker 3: you better love and enjoy. Get your popcorn out when
Speaker 3: these two men kiss, because I am rooting for it.
Speaker 3: I hope they go all the waeconds. I hope we
Speaker 3: see these brothers make it to the altar together. I
Speaker 3: want the white lotus to white lotus all over the place.
Speaker 1: That I'm pretending to be two.
Speaker 3: Gay brothers who are doing it all.
Speaker 1: Over each other.
Speaker 5: Grow up.
Speaker 4: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Money and that's one minute that might be my best
Speaker 1: one in a long time. I can't follow that.
Speaker 4: I know I had that in me.
Speaker 1: Matt Rogers Caper for gay and up, because I'm saying,
Speaker 1: you're right, there's not.
Speaker 3: There was not that much noise during Game of three. No,
Speaker 3: certainly nothing even approaching it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think it's because like you can't really project yourself
Speaker 5: onto one of the cares of Game of Thrones and
Speaker 5: be like, that could really happen to my child, Do
Speaker 5: you know, like you watch you like I might be
Speaker 5: dating a guy who.
Speaker 4: Did, Like sure, you know, like or like there's all
Speaker 4: of these things.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you.
Speaker 3: It's these well let mean, let me not, but let
Speaker 3: me it's these families with a lot of money that
Speaker 3: things go back a very long time. That is where
Speaker 3: the weird stuff happens. And that is it is no
Speaker 3: mistake that they are that kind of like family and
Speaker 3: they're they're engaging in this type of thing. And what
Speaker 3: I'll also say is that the discomfort with it is
Speaker 3: and this is very intentional I think on Mike White's part,
Speaker 3: and he's been like this from the beginning. There is
Speaker 3: a fascination with the male butt and it makes people
Speaker 3: think of gay sex and the ick factor they're in.
Speaker 3: And I'm just saying that is the way we make love,
Speaker 3: get over it and grow up.
Speaker 2: And grow up theory of the abject You're you don't
Speaker 2: like it because it's it's poop, isn't nearby?
Speaker 1: Yeah, That's what I'm saying is it's like.
Speaker 3: That's statological, it's scatological and what I always think, like,
Speaker 3: is he doing a butt call for his male actors,
Speaker 3: because it's always popping off.
Speaker 1: But Adam demarka, we will not forget. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: like it's I see what that is. Yeah, and therapy
Speaker 1: that's really it's Shakespearean right right.
Speaker 5: It's like to me, I feel like that's the cool
Speaker 5: thing about the motifs he's using this season, like it feels.
Speaker 1: Very classical, classical.
Speaker 3: Yes, I agree, And also I really appreciate that in
Speaker 3: the second season two with the opera of it all.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I thought that that was there's.
Speaker 3: Really and you kind of it blows my mind that
Speaker 3: he can make these shows. Obviously there there are white
Speaker 3: lotus and they come with those themes. We of course
Speaker 3: have this very similar setup every season. But this like
Speaker 3: real commitment to and fascination with the culture surrounding the
Speaker 3: places he decides to explore, I think is even more
Speaker 3: impressive than people realize.
Speaker 4: Oh, this season is incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen a lot of people who have a
Speaker 2: deep knowledge of taime music history of like the rock
Speaker 2: and the disco and all these different genres that have
Speaker 2: like moved through Thailand. Like people being like, no, the
Speaker 2: way that they're you the music supervising on the show
Speaker 2: is excellent.
Speaker 1: The way they're using time music is very, very very sophisticated.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like Thailand for me feels like a
Speaker 5: character on the show this season, of course, And I
Speaker 5: think it's a beautiful love letter to the culture of Thailand.
Speaker 5: And I learned when I was there. I had no idea.
Speaker 5: They've never been colonized, they've never been to war, and
Speaker 5: they call it the Land of Smiles, and so it's
Speaker 5: just the foundation of Thailand is this openness and it's
Speaker 5: pervasive and it's like the the Thai crew was like
Speaker 5: every Thai hand that touched this production was just like
Speaker 5: did it out of love? And I've never been surrounded
Speaker 5: by that, you know, in the same way.
Speaker 4: And yeah, I.
Speaker 5: Think that like from music supervision to all of the
Speaker 5: things I mean, of course, and just like they tapped
Speaker 5: like Thaie Royalty to be a part of the show,
Speaker 5: I mean, Lalisa, of course.
Speaker 4: I just feel like, I mean, it's impressive this.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna whip out the phone and say, Bowen Yang
Speaker 3: clearly has and I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 2: Today there's is about too much being said about something
Speaker 2: mine is about not enough.
Speaker 3: And with that too much, not enough narrative. This is
Speaker 3: Bowen Yang's I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 2: There should be a huge din of conversation around Li
Speaker 2: Lisa's performance in White Lodu season three. I'm not seeing
Speaker 2: enough chatter discourse about the groundedness with which she is
Speaker 2: performing this character. All the scenes between her and I
Speaker 2: took are so sweet. I'm nervous for that. Something is
Speaker 2: something bad is gonna happen there, and I don't like it.
Speaker 2: I don't like this feeling in me that I've been
Speaker 2: sitting with for weeks. But she is blowing me away.
Speaker 2: Obviously black pink Stan least Stan for life. She was
Speaker 2: someone that my starstruck moment at the Oscars was honestly
Speaker 2: walking past hers. I was coming off presenting and she
Speaker 2: was about to walk on for performing, and we waved
Speaker 2: at each other, and I was like, oh my god, Lisa,
Speaker 2: that smile, that million dollar smile. I Lovelisa so much.
Speaker 2: Why aren't we Why aren't the gays talking about this more?
Speaker 2: Why are there more?
Speaker 1: You know? I just want to see the memes. I'm
Speaker 1: not seeing enough love Lisa memes. I'm seeing a lot
Speaker 1: of Parker. I'm seeing a lot of Patrick. We love Patrick.
Speaker 2: I need to see more. I need to see Blenda memes.
Speaker 2: I need to see Lalasa memes. And that's one man
Speaker 2: and that's one manute.
Speaker 1: You know what it is.
Speaker 3: It kind of goes hand at hand with the thing
Speaker 3: of like, oh, this season feels slow, feels slow. No,
Speaker 3: I feel like this season is the most cinemata because
Speaker 3: what is going to happen? And I know with Lisa,
Speaker 3: I know there's a twist coming. Yes, I know that
Speaker 3: there's gonna be something that goes down with her character
Speaker 3: that like makes it bigger than it is.
Speaker 1: And I feel like because it has to be, because
Speaker 1: it's her.
Speaker 4: It's just so I'm close, I know, I know.
Speaker 5: I love her so much. Yes, I met her mother
Speaker 5: on set. She's so down to earth. She's just real
Speaker 5: and so sweet and like just loves the craft of
Speaker 5: acting and like it's.
Speaker 4: So was so nervous, just really and she is like
Speaker 4: she would she.
Speaker 5: Would be out and about like if we were like, oh,
Speaker 5: let's go grab dinner here or whatever. Mobbed by of.
Speaker 1: Course, like tail international superstar.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like it was insane, like Beyonce level fandom over there,
Speaker 5: and she is so gracious and like kind and but
Speaker 5: the acting is out.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about.
Speaker 3: Someone who is used to working her fucking ass off.
Speaker 3: I mean, like, you know, have you seen the documentary
Speaker 3: like it's it's you have.
Speaker 5: To make me watch it? Before I was like, I
Speaker 5: need to do some more research. I can't just listen
Speaker 5: to the music, like you need to watch the docs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we saw them at Coachella. It was like four machines.
Speaker 3: It was it was wild, and I mean, like a
Speaker 3: person like that, I would say, like I say about Beyonce,
Speaker 3: don't put anything past someone that works.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Oh we need to as well. I
Speaker 1: mean I would.
Speaker 4: Feel like she moves like a virgo.
Speaker 1: You know what you need to find out? What are you?
Speaker 4: Can you guess?
Speaker 1: Wait?
Speaker 3: Because I would have said Leo. But now as a
Speaker 3: result of this conversation, I don't know, are.
Speaker 1: You score bio?
Speaker 4: I'm libra?
Speaker 1: You're a libra? Okay.
Speaker 3: So we had Kate Blanchette yesterday and she was saying
Speaker 3: people who are libras aren't necessarily just out and proud
Speaker 3: about their librinus. Are you out and proud about your
Speaker 3: libert I love my librinus.
Speaker 1: Libra is not something to not be proud of you. No, no,
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: But we were just saying, like people libras don't feel
Speaker 3: like they need to tell everyone they're a libra. Like
Speaker 3: we're aces in a scorpio and we're so loud in
Speaker 3: my out here.
Speaker 5: I see scorpio, bestie, yeah, water signs.
Speaker 1: Okay, she's in aries. Oh I like that.
Speaker 4: There's the fire fire. I love that.
Speaker 3: In fact, I was looking at it forward, one of
Speaker 3: those like you know, you know, swipe through Instagram things
Speaker 3: today that's like, here's what a cancer need?
Speaker 5: Is what that?
Speaker 1: It made a point about pisces an area, so I
Speaker 1: might have to text a Lisa. I'll get her information.
Speaker 1: Boy'll love it.
Speaker 3: Okay, is it time for your I don't think so,
Speaker 3: so nervous, don't made for this moment? Okay, Okay, this
Speaker 3: is Natasha Rothwalls. I don't think so, Honny and her
Speaker 3: time starts now.
Speaker 5: I don't think so, honey, Stop asking me about white
Speaker 5: lotus spoilers. But that's all the emotional labor black women
Speaker 5: have had to carry in this country Yeah, you not
Speaker 5: want a narry another person asking me to drop the
Speaker 5: bag that I.
Speaker 4: Have secured, and an effort to make you sleep at night.
Speaker 4: It's not my job to make you sleep at night.
Speaker 5: You need to put yourself to be Stop asking black.
Speaker 1: Women to heal.
Speaker 4: You watch the fucking TV show your.
Speaker 5: Answers, but watching the show like everybody else, you enjoy
Speaker 5: the fact that I'm on something that's exciting and I
Speaker 5: don't have to walk around being worried that I'm gonna
Speaker 5: spoil something because you keep trying to sneak in questions.
Speaker 5: Do you really think you in the middle of Target.
Speaker 1: That you, sir, that I just met.
Speaker 4: And don't know you're the one that's going to make
Speaker 4: me give up the ghost?
Speaker 5: No, fuck yourself and stop going in the fifteen items
Speaker 5: or over. I know you got twenty items. You I'm
Speaker 5: not and I'm not telling you function about the show.
Speaker 4: Watch that's one.
Speaker 3: Minute, amazing, high energy today. Yeah, it's not going to
Speaker 3: be you Target, and it's not going to be you,
Speaker 3: and it's not going to be the man in.
Speaker 5: Target, man in Target, the bell boy, the guy in
Speaker 5: the cat like people have been harassing me.
Speaker 1: It's like you want to tell them you don't want it.
Speaker 1: You don't want to find out this way.
Speaker 4: No, you don't want to find out this experience.
Speaker 1: It through the viewing process, like the way it's meant
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 5: I think also White Lotus is hearkening back the way
Speaker 5: you know, it's water cooler television. It's once a week
Speaker 5: and it's just like appointment television, and and folks are
Speaker 5: so gimme, gimme, gimme. They can't wait, you know what
Speaker 5: I mean. And so for me, I'm just like give
Speaker 5: into what this show is. You know, it's hearkening back
Speaker 5: to like fucking Dallas. They had hour episodes, you know,
Speaker 5: like being able to tell a story over time. I
Speaker 5: feel like the anxiety of the culture is just like
Speaker 5: making people.
Speaker 3: Yes, I need more and more and more, and it
Speaker 3: gets people mean about it too. Yes, Like I find
Speaker 3: that that's obviously dugged down the online blah blah blah
Speaker 3: boring conversation about how Twitter looks. But what I'm saying
Speaker 3: is we should be so lucky to be in a
Speaker 3: time when we have an HBO Prestige show that is
Speaker 3: water cooler on every Sunday night. We are always living
Speaker 3: in a better world when that is the case, and
Speaker 3: it feels like we had a golden age there and
Speaker 3: now we kind of like, you know, we're We're just
Speaker 3: to put it mildly, we are eating right now, and
Speaker 3: so enjoy your food and joy by shoe swallow, take
Speaker 3: time to digest because more courses are.
Speaker 4: I'm not going to be the one like I like
Speaker 4: work too hard.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 4: I was like, if anybody's got loose lips, it's Parker.
Speaker 3: That's just true. I think she's already slips. She's already
Speaker 3: No way did she she said such?
Speaker 4: She was?
Speaker 1: I think she was found or something.
Speaker 3: Someone came out and said, oops, I accidentally said something wrong.
Speaker 3: Maybe this is about something else.
Speaker 4: It's not on the text chain yet. Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe we'll cut this out. But I mean, you've
Speaker 1: been sitting on this information for like a year at
Speaker 1: this point.
Speaker 5: Anyway, right, no longer hire Bob. So I got cast
Speaker 5: before the strike. Oh and I was sitting on it
Speaker 5: secretly while I was shooting How to Dialog. They announced
Speaker 5: it thinking we were going to shoot that October.
Speaker 4: So I was the only one announced, and then no
Speaker 4: one else was announced.
Speaker 5: And for a whole year you knew well yes, well
Speaker 5: no that was when what was the strike May May
Speaker 5: May through. I didn't shoot again until I got to
Speaker 5: Thailand in February. Lord, so I've been sitting on it
Speaker 5: for that plus, so two years.
Speaker 1: Almost two years. Yeah, you're not going to give up
Speaker 1: the ghosts. No, no, we're not going to Target right now.
Speaker 1: Change the policy, change your policy. Target.
Speaker 2: I will admit I did go in yesterday to buy
Speaker 2: the exclusive Gaga vinyl. Well, but I think people, people
Speaker 2: on threads at least, have have given each other a pass. Yes,
Speaker 2: the little monster's been like, you can go to Target
Speaker 2: just to buy the vine. But I've been proud of
Speaker 2: myself my Amazon and Target shopping way. How's the Chick
Speaker 2: fil a consumption? Chick fil a consumption is virtually gone
Speaker 2: as well?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, virtually gone.
Speaker 4: Virtually gone, as he picks chicken out of his teeth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you smell like the floor myself.
Speaker 5: It's not easy for me, my addiction to both Target
Speaker 5: and Amazon.
Speaker 4: Like obviously on the blackout day.
Speaker 5: I didn't this is this is it feels chic, but
Speaker 5: here's some shady ship.
Speaker 4: I had filled up my cart.
Speaker 1: Wait twenty four hours later, period, that's okay, didn't you
Speaker 1: follow the black I follow the buck out.
Speaker 5: I was like, today I'm not gonna press bye, but
Speaker 5: tomorrow morning I'm all pressed.
Speaker 1: By you better believe the stroke of twelve. I was like, all.
Speaker 3: Right, but you should have seen me driving around LA
Speaker 3: with two miles of gas in my car.
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't.
Speaker 3: I was like getting where I need to go, like
Speaker 3: on empty because you couldn't get gas that day.
Speaker 1: Now this is the truth.
Speaker 3: And you guess somewhere on two miles, like, how much
Speaker 3: do you want to black out?
Speaker 1: I wanted it back, I'd of God, of us, we
Speaker 1: are changing the world. Yeah, one economic blackout at a time.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you certainly are wor God, what a long time coming.
Speaker 4: What a long time coming.
Speaker 1: We just so enjoyed having you here.
Speaker 4: I want to do this.
Speaker 1: You have to come back.
Speaker 4: Also, let's hang out without Mike.
Speaker 1: So we can really say and we will be the guys. Okay.
Speaker 3: So I mean, obviously White Lotus Sunday Nights, where I
Speaker 3: guess six episodes are out right now we're coming up
Speaker 3: on that finale. Obviously watch everything that Tasha does because
Speaker 3: it's the best ever. I mean, we just adore.
Speaker 2: Truly happy, no one, no one is more like up
Speaker 2: in this like the I mean, unfortunately, you're like up
Speaker 2: on this pedestal. But the thing is you've been up
Speaker 2: on that pedestal for so long for us, and you
Speaker 2: have never, ever, ever ever disappointed us. And that's not
Speaker 2: pressure or anything, it's just pure No, it's just that
Speaker 2: we love.
Speaker 1: You so much.
Speaker 5: Ditto, and just know that, like I'm rooting for y'all
Speaker 5: so heavy, Like everything you touch now or will touch,
Speaker 5: I'm like, just know that I'm in your corner and
Speaker 5: for me watching what each of you guys do and
Speaker 5: how you have come together to like like it's just
Speaker 5: beautiful to see, especially in the comedy community, that kind
Speaker 5: of support. And I think that like what you do,
Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's smart, it's timely, it's needed, and
Speaker 5: I'm just like, I just want to keep putting a
Speaker 5: mic to you so that way your voices can continue
Speaker 5: to be amplified because the world needs you.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that is the kindest thing anyone's ever said.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I mean, this is so meaningful,
Speaker 3: and I feel we do end every episode with the song,
Speaker 3: and people have been talking about how they haven't been
Speaker 3: hearing this enough. But when this theme jumped out in
Speaker 3: the show. I was like, Okay, I think this is Mike.
Speaker 3: Why telling us white lotus is about to white lotus.
Speaker 3: We all know the refrain.
Speaker 1: Honey by law of culture reads.
Speaker 2: This is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players
Speaker 2: and I Heart Radio podcasts.
Speaker 3: Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, Executive
Speaker 3: produced by Anna Hasnier and
Speaker 2: Produced by Becker Ramos, Edited, mixed by Duck BABYMNIQLA Board
Speaker 2: and our music is by Henry Komerski