WEBVTT - Did Reagan's Star Wars program win the Cold War? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.920 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.360 It's ready. Are you welcome to you stuff you should 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:16.320 know from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:20.880 to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Schuckers 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:25.520 Bryant sitting across from me. Hi. Yeah, have you ever 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.360 seen Dying Darko? Dude, that's one of my favorites. You 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.159 know when he takes that mescaline and like that thing 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:34.800 comes out of his chest and he starts following it. Yeah, 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:37.360 he doesn't take that scale. But yeah, sometimes I feel 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.000 when we're sitting across from another we're connected by one 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:45.400 of those like a warm hole of fellowship. Yeah, like 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:47.680 from the Abyss that's what it sort of looked like. Yeah, 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.040 it did look a lot like that. I love that movie. Yeah, 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:54.680 when um, when Ed Harris takes all that mescaline that 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.840 movie and sees the sees that thing come up out 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:00.480 of the water, it was just like that mess one. 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:03.840 No movies, how's it coming in which people take mescalin? 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:11.319 There's plenty of this. Sure, this is what people have 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:15.280 been complaining about lately. Who's been complaining? Tell me their names? 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.520 Various people, people have been complained, Oh you bring something up. 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:21.600 I feel like we should address something. We haven't done 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:24.280 this in a really long time. It appears to me 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.920 that we have a lot of newcomers. Yeah, welcome, Yes, welcome. 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:32.400 UM and I think anyone who's been following us the 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.039 whole time it kind of gets the stuff you should know, 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.920 JAM right. But it seems like there's a lot of 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.560 people who don't quite understand what we're doing and think 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.800 that we purport to be infallible experts on everything, and 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.760 that we don't just get things wrong from time to time. 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:50.800 We're just a couple of guys who are pretty decent 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.840 at researching. That doesn't mean like we invented the topic 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.200 that we're talking about, or that we didn't just walk 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.440 right past UM a fact or some thing that we 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.200 missed in our research. It comes up, it happens from 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.040 time time, So I guess if you're just joining us, 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.840 that's probably something good to keep in mind. We don't 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:11.320 claim to be experts, so don't hold us to that standard, 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:13.560 because we're not trying to reach that standard. We're just 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:18.840 trying to impart some really great information as factually as possible. 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:26.680 UM and Uh, we love science and wonder great, be good. Yeah, 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.200 all right, how are you doing? I'm awesome. Do you 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.840 have anything to get off of your chest? No, just 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:39.240 welcome the paminacies. Many sandwiches are in the corner. Help yourself. So, Chuck, 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.120 do you remember a while back we talked what we've 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:46.280 talked about this stuff a lot, mutual assured destruction. We 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:49.160 did a podcast on that specifically, didn't we we did? Um? 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.679 We did one on who who won the Cold War? 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.800 Did one on how to steal a nuclear bomb? Yeah, 0:02:55.000 --> 0:03:00.760 like we've done. It's just this fascinating period of world history, 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.480 the Cold War, agreed, incredibly tense, incredibly scary, and this 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:09.640 is our history. It is in part because you're half Russian. No, 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.399 but um, I was alive and well, and the young 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:22.639 kids weren't. Yeah, we've talked about this before. Um so Uh. 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:27.200 The central I guess, the fulcrum of the Cold War, 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.480 the fact that the reason we're all still here is 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.880 that was the doctrine of mutual sure destruction, which is 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.680 basically like we had enough nukes to wipe out the 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.680 entire world. The Soviet Union had enough nukes to wipe 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.360 out the entire world. So we were just there in 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.720 a tense fragile de conte. How about a nice game 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.280 of chess exactly, That's why we're still here. So, Um, 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:54.280 this was I guess this accepted reality for every president 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:59.600 and every premiere um from well, I guess who for 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.760 us from icon This mutual is sure destruction doctrine was 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:08.320 just kind of a part of daily life. Um. But 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.760 when Ronald Reagan came into office, he came up with 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:14.920 a different plan he didn't need, so instead of a 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:19.920 tense standoff, he found that untoward. I guess I think 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.480 he found it. From my understanding of Reagan, he would 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.800 have found it untoward because it didn't give America a 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.320 clear advantage. Well, the article says he found it morally 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:33.760 and politically distasteful. I agree with him in that Reagan 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.920 didn't like mutual or sure destruction for one reason or another. 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.120 So he came up with something a game changer. You 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.760 would call it today. If you read books that of 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.880 an airplane is also reading at the same time, that's right, 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.080 what is it? Josh? He came up with the Strategic 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:55.839 Defense Initiative, which the press like to call start the 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.080 Star Wars program. And I remember this very very well, 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:03.200 because it was largely derided in the press for a 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:07.200 bunch of reasons. We're gonna talk about Yeah, I remember 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.520 very well too. It was all over Mad magazine. Um, 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:15.480 it was all over time. There were awesome illustrations of 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.200 like satellites with laser shooting out of them that like 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:21.240 you could see in the mainstream media a lot. Sure, Um, 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.800 But yeah, I also remember it kind of just basically 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:30.719 being generally disliked by the public. Yeah, as well. Pretty 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.880 much it was. It was to be laughed at in 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.600 many circles, although it was a very serious thing. It was, 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:39.400 and it was laughed at for a lot of reasons. 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:44.400 But that we're gonna go over so Reagan. On March three, 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:48.760 he held an address to the nation, little televised speech, 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:55.200 and in it he challenged the um scientific community UM, 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:59.800 who he said had created nuclear weapons, to make those 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:04.279 very same weapons quote UM impotent and obsolete. And that 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:08.200 kind of became the rallying cry. Yeah, like, let's make 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.360 nukes impotent and obsolete. And the way you do that 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:12.920 is to make it so that we have a missile 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:18.000 defense system that can shoot down every single nuclear warhead 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.920 that Russia has in its arsenal all at once if 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:25.360 need be. Yeah, after launch. Um, that is so like 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.120 if they launched their missiles, we can shoot them down 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:32.400 in space and um, in Reagan's view, which you know 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.720 I can see his point at the time, um, there 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:37.760 would not be any more need for He thought it 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.839 would like neuter the Cold War in its tracks. Soviet 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:45.760 Union thought that's not too cool. They thought, yet, and yet, 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:50.440 and yet, because well a lot of a lot of 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:52.600 people felt like it was going to escalate the arms race. 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:54.839 The Soviets thought, this just means you have a clear 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:58.200 advantage over us. This doesn't neuter like it neuters us, 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.279 It doesn't neuter you, right, and said as many times 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.840 as the Soviets could stand to hear it that, Um, 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.920 this was strictly a missile defense system, a net or 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:13.920 a shield if you will, Um, that that would only 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.800 be used in the event that a Soviet nuclear launch 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:21.480 was detected. Right, But the Soviets were saying, or you 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.040 could just shoot all of our missiles down and then 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:28.000 launched a strike, a first strike where we would have 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:31.240 no way to retaliate. So, yeah, this is totally unacceptable. 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:34.720 And yeah, the Russians rallied against it. But not just 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.040 them the here at home. There are a lot of 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:41.000 people who didn't really care for it, including the public 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.920 who thought it was a pipe dream, or who thought 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.520 it would escalate a new arms racist Soviets, or who 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:49.800 just thought it was going to be a huge like 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:52.800 money pit. Yeah, and it was a lot of those things. 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.680 Um And when we say Soviets, let's go ahead and 0:07:55.720 --> 0:08:00.560 call out the premier that I didn't remember Yuri and 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:04.280 drop off. I didn't remember him. I don't remember him either, 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.520 and I looked him up. He was only I mean that. 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:08.280 It seems like there was a lot of premiers there 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:12.680 for a while, but like died surely thereafter. I think 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:14.480 he was in like like less than a year and 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.920 a half. Uh. He was like the KGB had something 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:22.840 to do with it in vodka. Um, so he was 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:24.800 the premier at the time. He wasn't a fan. They 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:30.360 launched a big propaganda campaign. It says their propaganda went 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:34.360 toward uh poopoo ing the Star Wars defense program, even 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.920 though they didn't think it was gonna work. So neither 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.920 did our Congress. Apparently right Apparently the Soviets were like, 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.440 this is not a feasible program. Well, and they said 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.720 it violates a couple of important treaties UM. The A 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.480 b M, the Anti Ballistic Missile Treaty of seventy two, 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.720 which the Soviet Union in in UH the United States 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:55.800 were both a part of, said that at the time 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.120 that was two ground based missile defense systems you were allowed. 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.200 Later on it was one. And I guess this would 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.880 have been more than two. Not only that ground based 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.840 is a an operative term in this case, because this 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.080 was going to be this this strategic defense initiative was 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.160 going to be space based, and that violates another treaty 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:18.040 N seven Outer Space Treaty says that you cannot use 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.800 weapons of mass destruction and space. And that's pretty much 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:23.840 what was going on, or that was what was planned, 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.160 right right. So UM, all right, so that's that's why 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:31.400 they don't like it, right why? And Congress didn't like it. 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.120 Congress didn't like it either. Most people in Congress. They 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:41.240 they apparently the UM, the Missile Defense Agency attributes UM 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.319 coining the term star wars to describe the Strategic Offense 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:48.560 Deation initiative to mock it really UM to Ted Kennedy 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:52.400 and an interview in The Washington Post, like almost right 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.600 after Reagan announced the Strategic Defense Initiative, and Reagan spent 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.240 the rest of the time he was in office trying 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.400 to simultane get this push through and to get everyone 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.480 to stop calling it star wars, because with no luck. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:10.319 Had had it caught the American public's imagination like, oh, yeah, 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:14.160 star wars, let's just go ahead and blow up Russia 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.000 with star wars, he would have been like, yeah, let's 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.120 call it star wars. It's awesome. But it was like 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.400 Reagan star Wars, that crazy old kuk. He's got all 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.120 time and he wants to put weapons in space and 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.760 just shoot lasers around and all that. So he spent 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.000 a lot of time lobbying against people calling it star wars, 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.360 but it didn't work. Now he'd tried to go by 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:37.080 the name Strategic Defense in this initiative, and you know 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:38.679 how the press is. I think he used to get 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:40.720 a hold of something. It's all over. He was probably 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:44.640 even willing to to um allow it to be called 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.440 the sd I. I'll bet he was even like bed I. 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:53.120 So Europe wasn't all in favor the Allies. They had 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.360 some concerns about the balance of power and how this 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:01.160 would affect it obviously, And like you said, congress Um, 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.760 not everyone was against it, but they had some major issues, 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.679 largely a the cost and the is it even possible? 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.000 Like are we just pipe dreaming here on these lasers? 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.839 And they were kind of right well at the time, 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.400 they were so in in Reagan's defense, he said from 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:23.760 the outset like, this can take years, decades. This is 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.000 not going to be an overnight thing. And he also 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:27.960 said we're going to test a lot of different stuff 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.079 right that he was like he was well aware of 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.679 the technology didn't exist, or if it did exist, it 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.199 was like a glimmer in some National laboratory scientists eyes 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.160 and it was just in the nascent stages, so um 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:43.680 from the outside. He commissioned some reports and the one 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:45.840 that kind of got picked up was the Fletcher Report. 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.400 And the Fletcher Report basically said, here are eight things 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:52.319 you need to build the Strategic Defense Initiative, everything from 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:58.200 sensors that can detect when uh intercontinental ballistic missile launch 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.600 is launched because they don't phone you up and say 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.240 we've launched exactly right, and you need to make sure 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:06.160 that they're accurate and it's not going to be like 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:10.440 a wargames thing where it's like whatever, um, you also 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:14.600 need to come up with some incredible guided missile systems, UM. 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.640 Just just like I think there were like eight different 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:21.040 different aspects that basically either needed to be created or 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:22.880 needed to be refined to the point where they might 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:27.720 as well be created from scratch. And Reagan said do this. Yeah, 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.680 he said, press on. And I think a lot of 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:31.880 people at the time in Congress, at least we're saying, 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.560 good idea, let's use this as a bargaining tool in 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:37.640 the arms race, Like we don't really have to do 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.480 it right there, like everyone thinks you're serious exactly, And 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:42.640 he said this could work as a bargaining chip, and 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.320 he was like, no, I really want the star wars. Uh. 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:51.040 I'm sorry sd I. So apparently um GO got Reagan 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:56.400 to meet him for UM Arms Limitations talks in Iceland 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:01.360 in October, and Reagan and went and they had this 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:05.120 great talk and like basically gorbon Chop was like, let's 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:09.160 end mutuals your destruction. Let's basically get rid of our arsenals. 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.600 And the Soviets were just throwing like bone after bone 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.640 under the table and Reagan just can't believe his luck 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:18.000 and then all of a sudden, Gorbon at the end 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.319 is like, okay, so we'll go ahead and sign off 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.600 on this, but all this is contingent that you give 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.160 up Star Wars, right, and Reagan stood up and the 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:29.080 left he left, Yeah, which is kind of like that's 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:32.120 a little crazy maybe, but that's the level of commitment. 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.280 He apparently had two Star Wars. Well yeah, not too 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:37.600 long after, the Soviets says, well, you know what, we 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:41.280 gotta do something. We can't build a Star Wars And 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:44.439 it's actually a pretty good idea they said we can, well, 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.439 at least they thought they could, um undertake what they 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:52.559 called the Polyus skiff, which was will event a network 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:58.720 of weapons to destroy your Star Wars machine, um, which was, hey, 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.120 that's pretty good thinking. But they didn't have the funding 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.560 and uh it was not very successful either. No, they didn't. 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.640 And that leads us to um a point if I 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:12.760 may skip around a little chucture, but um history has 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:17.080 kind of vindicated Reagan in one way, like his Star 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.840 Wars program didn't go anywhere, but it wasn't given very 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.320 much time. And the reason why is because the fall 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.600 of the Soviet Union happened within less than a decade 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:32.040 after he announced the star Wars initiative. The program, Uh, 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.680 the Soviet Union fell collapsed entirely. Uh and with some 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:40.600 people attribute that to the defense spending that he immediately 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:46.400 caused them to to start expending because of the Star 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.480 Wars program. True, so he did kind of ratchet up 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.320 this arms race, but the Soviets couldn't keep up. This 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.800 came on the heels of US bleeding them dry in 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:59.000 Afghanistan secretly funding the muja Haddein which became the Taliban 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.120 by the way, we I don't know how much Reagan knew, 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:06.520 but these the Soviets were hurting financially, and then all 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:08.600 of a sudden you introduced star Wars and they couldn't 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.240 keep up. Yeah, and the follow of Soviet Union. With 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:16.080 that came obviously the at least huge threat of all 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:21.080 out nuclear war because they were the major players. Um, 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.320 you didn't have to worry about the smaller countries, you know, 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.760 as far as the mad goes, right, but you have 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.880 to worry about rogue states and all that. Making sure 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.040 that the Russians could hang on to their arsenal, which 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.720 they didn't do very well necessarily. But yes, the mutual 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.120 assured destruction just went the way the dinosaur when the 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:40.160 Soviets fell. Um. H W. Bush comes along. Yeah, people 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:41.720 get annoyed by the way and when we don't say 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.640 President so and so? Who does? Where are you see? 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.760 Are this on Facebook? Now? I've seen people right in before, 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:50.920 and I've heard other people say you should always address 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:53.280 them as President so and so. But I hear all 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:57.160 the time people say Obama, Clinton, Reagan. So no, no 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:03.160 disrespect intended, folks. H W. Bush comes along, Soviet Union 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.160 has fallen, So he's like, you know what, we need 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.320 to really cut back on this scope of this sd I. 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.280 He probably would have just scrapped it all together, but 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.440 he was pretty loyal to uh Reagan, of course. And um, 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:19.120 so he refocuses a program, cuts it back. Clinton comes 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:24.480 along President Clinton and refines it even more and cuts 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.040 it back even more. And by the time that happened, 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:31.240 it wasn't anything like Reagan's initial Star Wars program. No, 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.160 not at all. No, but it would become handy, which 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.760 we'll get too. So let's talk about what Star Wars was. 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:39.760 We've kind of given like a little bit of a 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.000 broad overview. But um, until I started researching this. I 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.680 hadn't really thought about it, but intercontinental ballistic missiles once 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:52.560 capable of saying, traveling from Moscow to New York, I 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:57.000 have to leave Earth's atmosphere and inner orbit. And so 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:01.240 the idea was we would have something up there that 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.600 could shoot it down when it entered orbit, That's right, 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:06.879 Which meant that we had to place. We had to 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.800 weaponize space. Yeah, and I wonder if they ever gave 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:14.080 any thought to what nuclear bombs going off in space 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.439 would mean. I mean, surely there's repercussions here. I know 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:21.159 it's space, But you can't just go willie nilly setting 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.560 off nuclear bombs in space? Right? Did in Nevada? Well, 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:30.840 that's that's true. Yeah, and look what happened there? What 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.520 happened there? Well, I'm just saying it. It's it's got 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.560 to cause some kind of harm to space even though 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.120 it's space, right, or does it just sucking? Do it? Like? 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:40.800 I have no idea. This is something I could not find. 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.800 I mean the research that couldn't find anything. Yeah. No, 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.480 I I understand what you're saying. In space is a vacuum, 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.639 so it should have some effect or no effect whatsoever. 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.680 But it's got to and got to do something. There's 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:56.480 someone out there really smart that hopefully is going to 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.399 email me. I guess though. The the idea behind this 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.600 was fairly utilitarian, where it was like, Okay, this possible 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.280 consequence in space or saving millions of lives here on Earth, 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:11.359 and they just said whatever, that's fine, of course. Um, 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.720 but so you have something up in space it's capable 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.320 of shooting down an intercontinental ballistic missile like an X 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:22.080 ray laser. That's this is like where we kind of 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.560 come to some of the um Like, there were a 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.720 lot of proposals that were kind of out there, but 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.360 they went a hadn't spent a lot of money testing 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.560 these things like the X ray laser, and that was 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:38.080 a physicist Edward Teller, Um, it was needed. The hydrogen bomb. Yeah, 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.720 I saw that. It was his proposal, so they obviously 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:45.320 listened to him and um, it was gonna use power 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:49.119 generated by a nuclear blast. And it never performed well, 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:55.080 and it really became the focus point for the press 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.960 and for David Letterman and for Johnny Carson to make 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.000 fun of because it was an X ray laser and 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:03.399 this is coming off the heels of the Star Wars 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:07.600 movies themselves with their X ray blasters. Actually they would 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.080 star blowing up yeah, or the dust star blowing up 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.919 that planet all then I think they focused the laser 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.480 and boom, Um. You just saved me from a lot 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.480 of iro because I was gonna say, tattooing, I might 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:22.160 have got it wrong. I think it was all the wrong, man. 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:24.119 I hope you got it. If there's one thing that 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:26.320 I ever hope you got right, it was that one 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.600 so so many Star Trek fans would be writing in 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.200 so that there's the X ray laser and it doesn't 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.040 go over very well, which was very much the focus 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.320 of the media, and they were being chided for the 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.560 fact that they know sounded really far out right, but 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.119 they they tested it, it just wouldn't work. The idea 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:47.880 behind it was that they were going to have a small, 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.919 controlled nuclear explosion that would power this laser right to 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:56.800 create a massive amount of X rays concentrated amount of 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.480 X rays um that would be focused on a missile 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.880 and then go kaboom. It was called Project ex Caliber, 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.080 so it had a cool name to but apparently Teller 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.399 or the people behind it were accused of falsifying the 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.960 initial UH test result. Yeah, so it kind of went 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.560 down and scandal and mockery and everything. So in the 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.840 little box that said worked or didn't work, they just 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.879 checked worked and like shuffled away like cartoons sweat like 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.280 coming off. Therefore, so some of the other ideas that 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:33.280 they tried um and spent billions of dollars trying um 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:38.000 kinetic warheads, apparently they would collide in the orbit. It's 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.440 like shooting a shooting a missile at another missile UM. 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:43.520 And that one actually was like the big dog on 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:45.720 the block for a while at first in the early 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:49.639 stages of Star Wars, because they figured out that you 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:54.000 could have this thing like basically a satellite based garage 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:57.439 with like ten missiles in it and you just have 0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:59.800 it floating up there and then shoot at a missile. 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:01.639 And when one came up and it was a good idea, 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.280 they're like, we can actually do that, Like I think 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:07.000 we can do this. The problem is that somebody pointed 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:08.720 out that all the Russians had to do is shoot 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.800 a missile at your garage, and for their one missile, 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.320 they took out ten. So people said, okay, let's get 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:17.800 back to it, and they started exploring other one it's 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.399 like bringing a knife to a gunfight. It's like bringing 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:26.280 a missile to a multi missile fight. No. I don't 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.520 think that analogy works at all. Out. I think it's 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.360 like a sitting duck. Okay. Uh. The other thing they 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:36.560 wanted to try, Josh, was this rail guns mounted on satellites. 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:39.240 Did you see the popular mechanics drawing of it. I did, 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.600 and it's pretty wicked. Yeah. I gotta admit. It looks 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:43.439 like an I beam coming out of the satellite, but 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:46.439 it's shooting like a three ounce lug at two hundred 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.399 miles a second. It's pretty wicked. Yeah. Um, that one 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:53.560 didn't go very far because of the um energy requirements. Yeah, 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:57.920 it was just way too expensive in an energy sense. Uh. 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:03.040 And then the m I R A c L miracle laser. Um. 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:06.200 It was another laser, but it was ground based using mirrors, right, 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:09.520 and it was a chemical laser. It wasn't like an 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:13.840 uh nuclear X ray laser. It's like they just started 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:16.960 to try to throw cool sci fi terms of the 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:21.320 time together, like let's make laser, but let's make it 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:24.760 a nuclear X ray laser and we'll shoot missiles out 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:30.040 of the sky with strawn laser tron um. So then 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:33.600 this article doesn't really go into it. But after after 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:37.560 some of these were kind of asked and answered. Um 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:40.119 up until and even beyond the fall of the Soviet Union, 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.720 the Shining Star and all this became this these things 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:46.640 called bright Pebbles. Does that ring a bell? It did 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:48.560 for me when I ran across it, I was like, Ahi, 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:51.840 those two words sound very familiar. So Bright Pebbles was 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:56.800 the little garage with ten missiles. These were very small ones, 0:22:56.880 --> 0:23:02.399 like say, um twenty to fifty hound mini garages that 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:05.679 would shoot slugs or would ram themselves. But I think 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:08.560 they would shoot slugs. And rather than having one garage 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:11.320 with ten missiles, you would have thousands of these little 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:14.320 things all over the country, all over the all over space. 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:17.439 They're in space. Yeah, so they were hoping for a 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:19.760