Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: my name is Noel.
Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
Speaker 3: super producer Alexis codenamed Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly, you
Speaker 3: are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want
Speaker 3: you to know. Folks, if you're listening now, congratulations, you
Speaker 3: have survived what Corporate America calls Q one of twenty
Speaker 3: twenty four, only Q being short for quarter, not qann.
Speaker 3: But you know, we don't get in the c suit
Speaker 3: don't know what all their acronyms mean.
Speaker 2: And if you're listening to this right now, hopefully you
Speaker 2: have survived the eclipsep eclipse or is happening right now?
Speaker 2: Oh you're watching it as you roll this audio?
Speaker 3: Yeah, right on. I actually sent a note to to
Speaker 3: our crew earlier today where I asked wherein. I asked
Speaker 3: whether we could move our recording time on Monday such
Speaker 3: that we could witness the eclipse here in the fair
Speaker 3: metropolis of Atlanta, Georgia. It starts at one five goes
Speaker 3: about to four to thirty local time here in Ataant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and NASA's launching three rockets at the moon's shadow,
Speaker 2: which is totally fine.
Speaker 3: And sernin cern is just.
Speaker 2: Kicking back up now because they had problems earlier and
Speaker 2: they had to wait till now to kick back up.
Speaker 2: It's fine.
Speaker 3: Should we be concerned? Check out that episode. While you're
Speaker 3: looking at that, we've got to talk about some very
Speaker 3: big things. There's a hawk in the sky. There's a
Speaker 3: problem with three bodies, but maybe it's two. There's a
Speaker 3: little bit of anthropodermic bibliophigi we'd be lured. And and
Speaker 3: maybe we start here with did you like that one?
Speaker 4: Matt?
Speaker 2: I did because I only know it because I've heard
Speaker 2: you say it before. And I just imagine how many
Speaker 2: people are like, have no idea what the hell he
Speaker 2: just said? But that's fine.
Speaker 3: Skin, yeah, books that have some skin in the game,
Speaker 3: quite literally. Before we get to all of that, we
Speaker 3: have an important important piece of news code named doc.
Speaker 3: Could we get some like breaking news kind of sound perfect? God,
Speaker 3: you're amazing at this, all right. So for a while back,
Speaker 3: we have been talking about something called on the streets
Speaker 3: Havanah syndrome. Do we want to give a quick and
Speaker 3: dirty description of what Havannah syndrome is?
Speaker 4: So not unlike Golf War syndrome.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's not people who are on the front
Speaker 5: lines of a conflict per se. But I believe it
Speaker 5: was some diplomats that were stricken with this potentially due
Speaker 5: to an unknown source, whether it be a weapon of
Speaker 5: some kind or there are lots of other theories that
Speaker 5: went into it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, astute, perfect and succinct. We talked about this. I
Speaker 3: think we did an actual episode on this. The idea
Speaker 3: was that not just ambassadors or consular officers, but their
Speaker 3: families were being targeted by some sort of thing that
Speaker 3: tierpoint nol, just like Gulf War syndrome, left them with
Speaker 3: debilitating medical conditions that they could not quite explain, nor
Speaker 3: indeed could these conditions be properly diagnosed by medical professionals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've covered in several episodes over the years. And
Speaker 2: then in September twenty two we did an episode with
Speaker 2: Jack O'Brien, Yes, where we did the thing we're talking about,
Speaker 2: where it was kind of I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, Jack O'Brien, Thank you, Matt. Jack O'Brien notable fan
Speaker 3: of Corvid's congratulations Jack, and I wish you well on
Speaker 3: your journey. Jack is also the creator of crack dot
Speaker 3: com and the creator of Daily's Eye, Guy's friend of
Speaker 3: the show, responsible for so many amazing conversations Jack and
Speaker 3: I and this show. We went back and forth on
Speaker 3: the nature of Havana syndrome, and we left it with
Speaker 3: the idea remind me here, Matt. We left it here
Speaker 3: with the idea that perhaps it was psychosomatic.
Speaker 2: Well, that was Jack's conclusion on the show.
Speaker 3: I don't know, Jack, I hope you I hope you
Speaker 3: taste this. I texted him earlier as soon as the
Speaker 3: news came out. So sixty Minutes recently recently aired something
Speaker 3: that is the result of a collaboration, a joint investigation
Speaker 3: from sixty Minutes there to speak over in Germany and
Speaker 3: The Insider. This joint investigation by journalists by Civi's found
Speaker 3: that the things being called ah i's or anomalous health
Speaker 3: incidents may actually not be psychosomatic. They may indeed be
Speaker 3: evidence of a Russian made weapon. So let's start there
Speaker 3: before me.
Speaker 2: I mean, like the way we've been thinking it might
Speaker 2: have been for a long time.
Speaker 3: Go on, we gotta be nice to Jack.
Speaker 2: No, nothing is Jack. Jack was using some of the
Speaker 2: best sources out there that you had come to these conclusions.
Speaker 2: It's just it's what it felt like when the story
Speaker 2: first dropped, right, that first report that we read. My god,
Speaker 2: I know how many years ago that was, but like
Speaker 2: it felt like this was it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And also we we also can't say enough
Speaker 3: good stuff about that conversation. Please listen back, because we
Speaker 3: listen back to that conversation, and I think we were
Speaker 3: applying the same critical interrogation that we apply to any
Speaker 3: sort of any sort of conspiracy of this caliber. The
Speaker 3: idea is that there's a deployment of a particular technology.
Speaker 3: Think of it like a laser composed of sound, right,
Speaker 3: and this can as a result, it can go through
Speaker 3: class it can go through certain materials, right, and it
Speaker 3: will not generate physiological effects. It will generate it will
Speaker 3: generate extreme discomfort, but that may not be lasting. We
Speaker 3: saw earlier, we talked about it in a Strange News
Speaker 3: program quite briefly. We saw earlier that studies have shown
Speaker 3: there are no long term neurological deformations right of exposure
Speaker 3: to this stuff. However, I don't know, man, I can't
Speaker 3: wait to talk with everybody about this. The journalism here
Speaker 3: seems pretty apparent they correlate the attacks to presence of
Speaker 3: Russian officials, you know, kind of like your friendly CIA
Speaker 3: folks who work for it at embassy. I just want
Speaker 3: to check with you, guys. Do you think Havana syndrome
Speaker 3: is real or do you think it is created perhaps
Speaker 3: by a Russian technology.
Speaker 2: Well, the effects reported by people who have gone through this,
Speaker 2: you know, who were at least self reporting victims of
Speaker 2: these attacks, do they report physiological interaction is just It's
Speaker 2: not the kind that you can see, right. It's like
Speaker 2: a patient coming into a doctor's office and saying, I've
Speaker 2: got these really massive headaches. There's a terrible ringing in
Speaker 2: my ears. My ear's hurt. This sound, whatever it is,
Speaker 2: is so intense, and I'm also feeling dizzy. I can't concentrate. Again,
Speaker 2: like almost long COVID effects that were being reported in
Speaker 2: a weird way, but having some kind of audible source
Speaker 2: that these people at least self report to be causing it.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Ever, since it started coming out the
Speaker 2: idea that everybody could mass hallucinate or just jump on
Speaker 2: the bandwagon of this is why I feel dizzy, This
Speaker 2: is why my head hurts, this is why my ears,
Speaker 2: you know, I've got tenitis or whatever. That just didn't
Speaker 2: seem right to me. It seemed like it felt like
Speaker 2: something was entering those people's living spaces. We just could
Speaker 2: not describe what it was because we didn't know that
Speaker 2: thing like.
Speaker 4: What is variable?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what is the what is the actual method to
Speaker 2: make this occur? But remember in our episodes, we found
Speaker 2: things like those weapons that could do something like this.
Speaker 3: Yes, the precedent of this weapon. Mm hmmm, Yeah, you're
Speaker 3: right on the money. It's not outside of the realm
Speaker 3: of possibility, right. And science fiction again, as we always say,
Speaker 3: is only fiction for a certain window of time. And
Speaker 3: it looks like, I don't know again, listening back to
Speaker 3: our earlier conversations, I thought we were very fair and
Speaker 3: you know, we uh weirdly enough on Twitter or when
Speaker 3: they call it y x now x see said one
Speaker 3: of those Yeah, yeah, what they call it now? Jack
Speaker 3: O'Brien and I were having I think a pretty in
Speaker 3: depth collegiate exploration of the possible causes. And one of
Speaker 3: the things that we're often saying is, you know, look
Speaker 3: at the precedent of quote unquote non lethal acoustic weapons, right,
Speaker 3: the so called pain ray. We talked about that, right.
Speaker 4: What's the issue with that though?
Speaker 5: That, like you know, with the tests or the things
Speaker 5: that we discussed in the episode, it would be you'd
Speaker 5: have to be like in the next room, right, that
Speaker 5: wouldn't really shoot them long range.
Speaker 3: Well that was our assumption, Noel's right, that was our
Speaker 3: assumption in that conversation. We may have been incorrect, well.
Speaker 2: Because then we learned Look, man, we learned about the
Speaker 2: sphere in Las Vegas and how they can beam audio,
Speaker 2: directed audio right to a single person seen in that
Speaker 2: giant place. They can beam audio that's in Japanese to
Speaker 2: one seat and next to it, they can beam the
Speaker 2: same audio but it's in English, no liars, Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just directed guys.
Speaker 5: Doesn't this cily the kind of thing that sounds like
Speaker 5: really cool and buzzy for tech reporting, but that could
Speaker 5: down the line have some consequences just yea, no way, yeah.
Speaker 2: Man, everybody went to see you two last night as
Speaker 2: experiencing Havana syndrome, that's weird. No, I guess it feels
Speaker 2: so possible to me that the way it's being dismissed,
Speaker 2: and it has been dismissed in some of the other reporting,
Speaker 2: some of the you know, official statements that have come
Speaker 2: out of various governments, it just felt like it was
Speaker 2: shoveling it onder under the rug for diplomatic reasons. But
Speaker 2: what is there a new report or something? Is there
Speaker 2: new information?
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm so glad you asked that there is. Indeed,
Speaker 3: so as we were saying Insider der Spiegel in sixty minutes,
Speaker 3: they spent more than a year, or about a year,
Speaker 3: investigating this talk as off books as they could, and
Speaker 3: they have uncovered. Let's give you the full story. Insider,
Speaker 3: March thirty first, twenty twenty four. Roman Dobra Kotov, Cristo
Speaker 3: Grosev and Michael Weiss or Vice. They they published this
Speaker 3: collaboratively and they have the following new evidence links the
Speaker 3: GRGUS unit two nine one five five to mysterious attacks
Speaker 3: on US officials and their families.
Speaker 2: Well, what is.
Speaker 3: Gru Yeah, gru is gru is the nasty boys of Russia.
Speaker 3: Gru Is, Like I guess the best way to say
Speaker 3: it it's therefore in military intelligence. So it's kind of
Speaker 3: like militarized CIA. Okay, okay, they're the type to try
Speaker 3: some sort of Goldberg esc way to kill Castro. You know,
Speaker 3: the CIA came up with all those ACME level bugs
Speaker 3: bunny ways to kill Castro or discredit Castro.
Speaker 2: Right, Oh, I got it the way you put it. Versti,
Speaker 2: the nasty.
Speaker 3: Boys, the poison cigars. Yeah, big fans of polonium g
Speaker 3: r U. Let's put it that way. So what they found,
Speaker 3: like two nine, one, five to five is kind of
Speaker 3: a sabotage squad. They're they're sort of black ops, maybe
Speaker 3: wearing ties, and they're What we found in these investigations
Speaker 3: reading about these investigations is that one, Russia does have
Speaker 3: these weapons that are on the edge of sci fi.
Speaker 3: They do have weapons that could maybe do these things.
Speaker 3: We also found that numerous Western folks were onto these programs.
Speaker 3: Believe that this non lethal acoustic weaponry has traversed the
Speaker 3: chasm between science fiction to science fact. And what they're
Speaker 3: finding is they don't like necessarily the term non lethal
Speaker 3: acoustic weapons. They like the umbrella term directed energy weapons,
Speaker 3: which to our earlier point is what we have been
Speaker 3: talking about, and indeed I think we were softly predicting
Speaker 3: it for a number of years. Again, to be clear,
Speaker 3: folks playing along at home, the term havana syndrome is
Speaker 3: intensely unfair. The government of Cuba is not inventing these things,
Speaker 3: nor deploying them. It's kind of like how in the
Speaker 3: early nineteen hundreds that epidemic of influenza was called the
Speaker 3: Spanish flu because the first government to report it was Spain.
Speaker 3: They didn't invent it. Interesting, interesting, unfair. But here's what
Speaker 3: they find. They find that this technology, again, it is
Speaker 3: a real thing. It is not science fiction. It is
Speaker 3: possible to build and deploy these ideas as weapons. And
Speaker 3: they found some really nasty stuff. And looking back through it,
Speaker 3: like looking through the GRUS track record, looking through two nine, one,
Speaker 3: five five, what we see is what we see is
Speaker 3: a really good case that havana syndrome may not be
Speaker 3: an instance of mass hysteria. It may not be a
Speaker 3: bunch of stressed people suddenly giving migraines. It also jibes
Speaker 3: in a troubling way with some of the work of
Speaker 3: who is that guy we called the Alex Jones of
Speaker 3: Russia Foundation's a geopolitics guy. He kind of built their
Speaker 3: strategy of hybrid warfare.
Speaker 4: Oh, Alexander Dugan, I think foundations of geopolitics, right, yeah, yeah, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3: The hybrid warfare idea is that if you are outmatched
Speaker 3: in terms of conventional warfare, then you will you will
Speaker 3: kind of nibble at the edges right of the snack.
Speaker 4: You will.
Speaker 3: You will not hit maybe Totus, but you will maybe
Speaker 3: hit someone adjunct or adjacent to Totus. You may not hit
Speaker 3: the ambassador, but you may hit their family, right yeah.
Speaker 2: Or you may get revenge on someone who was working
Speaker 2: counterintelligence against some other operation, right, or someone who is
Speaker 2: successful in infiltrating some kind of signals that you were
Speaker 2: putting out at some point. Right. I remember seeing the
Speaker 2: report that it may have something to do with not
Speaker 2: necessarily revenge, but like getting people on their radar and
Speaker 2: they going, oh, well, guess what, We're not gonna let
Speaker 2: you do that again. We're gonna debilitate you with these
Speaker 2: you know, weapons that no one will ever see. And
Speaker 2: what was the other what was the other big thing
Speaker 2: with in that report, Ben, they were matching up individual
Speaker 2: members of this unit, right, yes, in places and times
Speaker 2: like going, Oh, this agent from two nine, one, five
Speaker 2: five was here at the time that this person was
Speaker 2: either attacked or experienced Havana syndrome.
Speaker 3: Again correlation. Yeah, and we have to like part of
Speaker 3: the hybrid strategy for the theorist in the crowd would
Speaker 3: be would be akin to gas lighting, right, Oh, you
Speaker 3: just have a headache.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and also you don't have actual evidence. Oh you
Speaker 2: have a list of our agents that were in those
Speaker 2: places at those times. What does that mean? Does? What
Speaker 2: does that mean? And it means nothing, you know.
Speaker 3: With that point, I think we've got a pause in
Speaker 3: a moment for a word from our sponsors, and perhaps
Speaker 3: this is an episode in the future. I thought we
Speaker 3: could end with a quote from Greg Edgreen, lieutenant colonel
Speaker 3: in the US Army, who says the following to sixty
Speaker 3: minutes quote, if I'm wrong about Russia being behind anomalous
Speaker 3: health incidents or again, Ahi, I will come onto your
Speaker 3: show and I will eat my tie. It appears, it
Speaker 3: appears there's something there that is not entirely psychogenic. It's
Speaker 3: something that Russians don't want you to know anyway.
Speaker 5: Ads, And we've returned with another piece of strange news.
Speaker 4: This one, I don't know.
Speaker 5: We've got think we've talked about this particular tome of
Speaker 5: nineteenth century literature in the collection over there at Harvard University,
Speaker 5: a little bit of light reading called not a French
Speaker 5: Speaker in my best Desdistines de.
Speaker 4: La May by Align Hussey.
Speaker 5: Hopefully that was somewhat passable and completely embarrassed byself. Oh yeah,
Speaker 5: a nineteenth century French novel. This particular edition, however, happens
Speaker 5: to be bound.
Speaker 4: In human flesh. Yeah.
Speaker 5: And whether or not we've talked about this one in particular,
Speaker 5: we know you said it at the top and it
Speaker 5: got Matt All at Twitter. There is a I guess,
Speaker 5: a school of book binding that involves that very thing
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 3: Just previous episode. This is one of the very few
Speaker 3: confirmed books of this nature.
Speaker 5: That's right, But it is a field of study. And
Speaker 5: whether or not there you know a plethora of examples.
Speaker 5: It is something thought to have been done more frequently,
Speaker 5: you know, in the past. And yeah, again this book
Speaker 5: is has been has been in the collection at Harvard,
Speaker 5: but no more.
Speaker 4: They have, in.
Speaker 5: Fact decided, after a study on the subject came out
Speaker 5: to remove this particular edition of the book bound in
Speaker 5: human skin.
Speaker 4: The Houghton Library, actually, by the way, is.
Speaker 5: The name of the facility there at this institution of learning,
Speaker 5: where this book has remained for more than one hundred years,
Speaker 5: often as a highlight of a tour.
Speaker 4: If you go check it out, you're going to get.
Speaker 5: Shown the book bound in human flesh. This study that
Speaker 5: I mentioned, or the report rather, I guess suppose you
Speaker 5: could call it, came out ten years ago scientists at
Speaker 5: Harvard confirmed, and just to say real quickly, I believe
Speaker 5: it was always conjecture that this was in fact bound
Speaker 5: with human skin, but it wasn't until relatively recently, about
Speaker 5: ten years ago. The scientists at Harvard did in fact
Speaker 5: verify that this nineteenth century French book was in fact
Speaker 5: bound in human flesh, and the Washington Post described the
Speaker 5: contents of the book as a tale of the destiny
Speaker 5: of the human soul or a study of the destiny
Speaker 5: of the human soul. The binding, not the book the
Speaker 5: pages contained therein have been removed due to what the
Speaker 5: university refers to as the ethically fraught nature of the
Speaker 5: book's origins and subsequent history.
Speaker 4: The flesh in question.
Speaker 5: Was taken from the back of a psychiatric patient in
Speaker 5: a French hospital who passed away due to a stroke
Speaker 5: in the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 4: This was a woman.
Speaker 5: Now the officials of the university say this portion of
Speaker 5: the volume has been taken and placed into what they
Speaker 5: referred to as we're spectful temporary storage until they decide
Speaker 5: how to dispose of it.
Speaker 4: In a dignified manner.
Speaker 5: Now, Ben and Matt and I had a little conversation
Speaker 5: off Mike just about the kind of nature of consent
Speaker 5: in these types of cases. You know, we've certainly talked
Speaker 5: about things like the body's exhibits, where we know that
Speaker 5: a lot of the I guess specimens on display in
Speaker 5: those were non consensually taken from formerly living prisoners.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's from China.
Speaker 3: That's the word I'm using there when we're talking off air.
Speaker 3: Non consensually quote unquote donated the the person who has
Speaker 3: never been identified officially. This woman did not did not
Speaker 3: give consent for her body to be used in this way. Now,
Speaker 3: there are a lot of people listening, to be fair,
Speaker 3: who are thinking, perhaps I'd love to donate my body
Speaker 3: to science, and I'd love to myself become a book.
Speaker 3: And that's all well and good. If that's what you
Speaker 3: want to do. But check out our earlier episodes on
Speaker 3: donating your body to science. You don't get to choose.
Speaker 3: It's just like paying taxes. You don't get to choose
Speaker 3: where that stuff goes. But the money is you.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 2: Because I'm kind of joking here, but I'm also a
Speaker 2: little serious. What if you got a tattoo on a
Speaker 2: part of your body that was roughly book sized, that
Speaker 2: states that you wish to have this part of your body,
Speaker 2: your skin used in the binding of a book, and it's.
Speaker 4: Like notized you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is why I'm a notary.
Speaker 4: I think that that would be a way to do it.
Speaker 4: It'd be a way to get it, to do it properly.
Speaker 5: I mean, you're joking, but I do think if it's
Speaker 5: a document and you signed it and it's official, yeah,
Speaker 5: I guess you know who.
Speaker 4: I don't know who's gonna do it.
Speaker 3: That just just to make it official, I'll do it.
Speaker 3: But just to make it official, get another get another
Speaker 3: page size thing on your skin that says this page
Speaker 3: intentionally left blank, that where people know it's official.
Speaker 5: That's a cool idea for a tattoo, period, Ben, I
Speaker 5: have to say you because you just put that literally,
Speaker 5: just that text on your entire back this page left
Speaker 5: intentionally blood.
Speaker 3: Love it. I really like it.
Speaker 5: No, this is this where this is a rail that
Speaker 5: goes in many directions. Because, as we're saying, this is
Speaker 5: a conversation about ethics, we also know that a lot
Speaker 5: of university collections and dare we say or we just
Speaker 5: say museums were built off the backs of those that
Speaker 5: fell to colonialism and oftentimes artifacts that were wholesale stolen
Speaker 5: and then and not given back or the theft even acknowledged,
Speaker 5: you know, for many many many years. And I mentioned
Speaker 5: a study At twenty twenty two, Harvard put out a
Speaker 5: report on Human Remains in University Museum Collections. And this
Speaker 5: is from the Steering Committee Report of the Steering Committee
Speaker 5: on Human Remains at University Museum Collections. As you can imagine,
Speaker 5: Harvard is a pretty big deal, you know, being such
Speaker 5: an old institution and one that continues to be, you know,
Speaker 5: so highly regarded.
Speaker 4: And this generated some of.
Speaker 5: The they're real up and covers, great minds, they're going places, right,
Speaker 5: so it's kind of up to them. And I, you know,
Speaker 5: I do applaud this paper to kind of set the
Speaker 5: tone right. They refer to the use of enslaved or
Speaker 5: likely to have been enslaved individuals, and then what to
Speaker 5: do in those situations. There's a section on ethical care.
Speaker 5: There's a whole section on you know, how to train
Speaker 5: you know, curators and educators on this kind of stuff.
Speaker 5: A section on recommendations for memorialization, consulting the communities you
Speaker 5: know who are affected by these remains, you know, being
Speaker 5: in these collections, and you know, the first page with
Speaker 5: as a big poll quote from Lawrence Bacau, the president
Speaker 5: of Harvard, saying, we must begin to confront the reality
Speaker 5: of a past in which academic curiosity and opportunity overwhelmed humanity.
Speaker 5: And we certainly see that in academia, way back, from
Speaker 5: way way back. I mean things like the Tuskegee experiments.
Speaker 5: You know, obviously there are extreme examples. There are more
Speaker 5: examples of curiosity and just maybe things that didn't age well.
Speaker 5: And then there are outright examples of dehumanization and treating
Speaker 5: people as test subjects first and humans second, if at all.
Speaker 5: And that is a big part of this debate, and
Speaker 5: the paper is what kind of caused this action to
Speaker 5: remove it? And just a little bit of background on
Speaker 5: this document or the novel. Rather, he who say the
Speaker 5: writer gifted the printed text of the book to a
Speaker 5: friend of his, a guy by the name of Ludovic Bouland,
Speaker 5: a doctor who then by choice, and I guess we've
Speaker 5: talked about the idea of resurrection men. You know all
Speaker 5: of that that was kind of the order of the day.
Speaker 5: He bound the book in human skin that he had
Speaker 5: acquired while studying as a medical student, and penned a
Speaker 5: handwritten note that is inserted into the volume describing his
Speaker 5: reasoning as such, a book about the human soul deserved
Speaker 5: to have a human covering. By looking carefully, you easily
Speaker 5: distinguish the pores of the skin.
Speaker 3: He should have put his own skin in the game.
Speaker 4: No joke, dude.
Speaker 5: I mean it's a hannibal lectery kind of sounding, so
Speaker 5: rather buffalo bill.
Speaker 4: I guess you know it's real gnarly guys.
Speaker 5: The note goes on to say that he didn't have
Speaker 5: anything stamped on the cover to preserve its elegance. I
Speaker 5: guess when we think of making things out of human skin,
Speaker 5: we often think of like horrorfic atrocities perpetrated by the Nazis,
Speaker 5: or we know they made you you're talking about lampshades, lampshades, wallets,
Speaker 5: what have you. And then of course things like that
Speaker 5: that were perpetrated by folks like Jeffrey Dahmer, serial killers.
Speaker 5: And the way he's talking about this, that this guy
Speaker 5: who did this, it doesn't really smack of academia. Smacks
Speaker 5: a little more of weird fetishism to me. I don't
Speaker 5: know about you guys, but you know the idea of
Speaker 5: the Human book about a human soul deserve to have
Speaker 5: a human covering. And to your point, Matt, who is
Speaker 5: this woman and who asked her if this was okay
Speaker 5: for her to be made into a book for like
Speaker 5: rich people to trade around, especially when she probably died
Speaker 5: in poverty and you know, pain and mental anguish. It
Speaker 5: just seems wrong.
Speaker 2: It gets into a weird discussion if you, if you
Speaker 2: pull it all the way out, and it makes me
Speaker 2: think about these policies that many cities have that prevent
Speaker 2: churches and other organizations and even individuals from doing things
Speaker 2: like providing food for unhoused individuals, right or when they
Speaker 2: won't allow what I'm saying is the way, Yeah, they
Speaker 2: won't allow it. The way that society still views the
Speaker 2: least of us and the way well, I mean, really, that's.
Speaker 5: Even the least of us who can't get into an
Speaker 5: Ivy League school, you know.
Speaker 4: I mean there's an.
Speaker 5: Othering adherent to that whole designation and of itself.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and I guess what I mean is that
Speaker 2: quote that you had before about the time when science,
Speaker 2: what is it the desire to explore science.
Speaker 5: Curiosity sort of outpaced or at the very least, outweigh
Speaker 5: the you know what's right.
Speaker 2: I don't know that we've ever fully escaped that. I
Speaker 2: think we have many institutions that have and individuals that have,
Speaker 2: but I think overall there's something unfortunately human about this
Speaker 2: entire thing exploring because we can and going to those
Speaker 2: lengths because someone's going to and then some you know,
Speaker 2: some younger mind decides.
Speaker 4: To you know, it's interesting too.
Speaker 5: Part of the controversy around this was a blog post
Speaker 5: with an excerpt from a book by Megan Rosenbloom called
Speaker 5: Dark Archives, The Librarians Investigation into the Science and History
Speaker 5: of Books Bound in Human Skin and sorry I've been
Speaker 5: I started to say it, but I didn't get to it.
Speaker 5: The term that made Matt giggle is anthropodermic bibliopogy, and
Speaker 5: there was a post on a Harvard blog that referenced
Speaker 5: this book, Dark Archives, by Megan Rosenbloom, who is an
Speaker 5: expert on that very subject, anthropodermic bibliopogy. Rosenbloom is also
Speaker 5: a part of the Anthropodermic Book Project, which to your
Speaker 5: point been, you know, there are numerous examples of things
Speaker 5: that might be this to test the origins determine if
Speaker 5: they are in fact human skin. They have confirmed eighteen
Speaker 5: books to have been actually bound in human skin. And
Speaker 5: this drew a lot of negative comment from other folks
Speaker 5: in the academic community, one of whom was Paul need Him,
Speaker 5: a retired librarian who had worked at Princeton, and he
Speaker 5: said the blog post should be deleted because I guess
Speaker 5: the blog post was just referencing the society and the
Speaker 5: search for these types of books as sort of a
Speaker 5: academic pursuit of value and one that isn't problematic. And
Speaker 5: he felt as though by publishing this on their website
Speaker 5: they were co signing it and Harvard, you know, that
Speaker 5: kind of co sign carries a whole heck of a
Speaker 5: lot of weight. And he said this although preservation is
Speaker 5: a central responsibility of libraries and museums. It is not
Speaker 5: one isolated from wider questions of ethics. And he wrote
Speaker 5: this in the New York Review of Books. There are
Speaker 5: times when the good of preservation must be weighed against
Speaker 5: other compelling responsibilities. And that original post that he was
Speaker 5: critiquing has now since been deleted. And now, of course
Speaker 5: this is what's happening with the book. They're going to
Speaker 5: give it some kind of imagine. It'll be some sort
Speaker 5: of burial in keeping with what they historically believe might
Speaker 5: have been the wishes of this individual, which you know,
Speaker 5: I would think would be a little bit hard to
Speaker 5: know for sure.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's very.
Speaker 5: Very interesting to have one more little quote from Tom Hiree,
Speaker 5: a librarian at Harvard, who said this in a news
Speaker 5: release about getting rid of this from the collection. The
Speaker 5: core problem with the volumes creation was a doctor who
Speaker 5: didn't see a whole person in front of him and
Speaker 5: carried out an odious act of removing a piece of
Speaker 5: skin from a deceased patient, almost certainly without consent, and
Speaker 5: used it in a book binding that has been handled
Speaker 5: by many for more than a century. And I don't
Speaker 5: know this is true or not. But the Internet today
Speaker 5: guys reported on this. They were joking around, and this
Speaker 5: is the kind of thing you could do in a library.
Speaker 4: You got it.
Speaker 5: If you're taking a tour and or maybe you're studying
Speaker 5: this kind of stuff, people probably got to handle it.
Speaker 5: I mean, if it's in the collection and you ask,
Speaker 5: you probably have to put on some gloves.
Speaker 4: But I bet they passed this thing around.
Speaker 2: That would make sense.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So anyway, he just concludes saying, we believe it's time
Speaker 5: the remains be put to rest. I don't know, Ben,
Speaker 5: I think you have some really really great points. And
Speaker 5: we've talked about this, you know, on and off throughout
Speaker 5: the years, about consent when it comes to what happens
Speaker 5: with our bodies after we die. I mean, there are
Speaker 5: some people that could care less. We always joke about
Speaker 5: the Frank Reynolds character on Always Sunnying Philadelphia saying just
Speaker 5: throw me in the trash. You know, there are some
Speaker 5: people that don't believe the kind of corporeal body matters
Speaker 5: after you die.
Speaker 4: But we know also that so.
Speaker 5: Many wars have been waged and so many have died
Speaker 5: in the name of you know, the afterlife and the
Speaker 5: name of religion and what happens to a body after
Speaker 5: one's death can have a lot of impact on what
Speaker 5: people believe will happen to their soul in the afterlife.
Speaker 5: So anyway, well done on that. And I don't know, Matt,
Speaker 5: and do you have anything else to add. I think
Speaker 5: I've kind of said all I had to say on
Speaker 5: this one. I feel like this is a good thing.
Speaker 5: I feel like to your point, Matt, this is the
Speaker 5: Harvard taking. You're taking the steps to lead by example
Speaker 5: and maybe get a little bit out of that mindset
Speaker 5: that you're talking about.
Speaker 4: Matt.
Speaker 2: Hopefully it's a move in the right direction.
Speaker 3: I don't think you should throw anybody's body in the
Speaker 3: trash if I'm just being honest. And I you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: we've talked about this at length, that book in particular.
Speaker 3: To be clear, none of us, the four of us
Speaker 3: recording today and you listening along at home, none of
Speaker 3: us have actually read the book.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I've never read a book and thought this would be
Speaker 3: better if a human sacrifice their skin to bind it.
Speaker 5: I guess that's why it just does it. All the
Speaker 5: stuff from the doctor that don this just kind of
Speaker 5: has a little bit of a creepy vibe to it.
Speaker 5: There's really no as an artifact. It's just kind of
Speaker 5: a weird, creepy curiosity. It's not representative of any like
Speaker 5: ancient culture or anything that is of value academically speaking.
Speaker 5: It's just something a likely very wealthy doctor decided to
Speaker 5: do with a cadaver he had laying around from grad school,
Speaker 5: which is just strange in and of itself. And by
Speaker 5: the way, this was donated and this kind of tracks
Speaker 5: too for what we're talking about here by an air
Speaker 5: to the stetson hat dynasty. Just something about that tickles me,
Speaker 5: and in the wrong way.
Speaker 2: Nobody likes a wrong tickle.
Speaker 5: No, definitely not the bad tickle. Now, all I'm saying
Speaker 5: is I got again. I'm not trying to stereotype, but
Speaker 5: for some reason, I picture the stetson hat folks as
Speaker 5: maybe being of that echelon of wealthy that would maybe
Speaker 5: get a gas out of trading and you know, human
Speaker 5: remains just as a flex.
Speaker 4: Call it a hot take.
Speaker 3: Let's say a quick break.
Speaker 5: We'll be back with one more piece of strange news,
Speaker 5: and we've returned.
Speaker 2: We're gonna split this up into two quick things. Here
Speaker 2: we go. Number one, the Three Body Problem one of
Speaker 2: the biggest shows on Netflix right now on streamers. There's
Speaker 2: some strange news revolving around one of these bodies, and
Speaker 2: there's about speak about it. There's gonna be a second
Speaker 2: one very soon.
Speaker 5: For episodes in Loving it. By the way, you guys
Speaker 5: we talked about it when we were traveling this week,
Speaker 5: and you guys have both binged it and I am
Speaker 5: really quite enjoying it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no spoilers. Do watch it if you get a chance,
Speaker 2: because it is pretty great. Here's the news. We're gonna
Speaker 2: tell you about two individuals. The first one is the
Speaker 2: victim in this story. His name is Lynn Chi. I
Speaker 2: think that's how you would say his name, Lnqi. This
Speaker 2: person is the founder and chairman of a company called
Speaker 2: u Zoo Games. That's Yoozo.
Speaker 4: This is a.
Speaker 2: Company out of China. They're a game maker, publisher. They
Speaker 2: do all kinds of stuff. They also control a bunch
Speaker 2: of intellectual property, including that of the Three Body Problem
Speaker 2: book series, or the book series that is named that.
Speaker 2: It's been stylized a bit in the US with the
Speaker 2: number three rather than the word three very late, very late.
Speaker 2: Oh yes. He's also known as the quote billionaire millennial.
Speaker 2: This person, lyn Chi, was thirty nine years old and
Speaker 2: had a net worth of around nine hundred and forty
Speaker 2: one million dollars US at the time of his death
Speaker 2: on December twenty fifth, twenty twenty, So right on the
Speaker 2: cusp of being a billionaire. But my goodness, Like this
Speaker 2: guy had a lot of money, is very successful. The
Speaker 2: other person we're going to talk about is currently a
Speaker 2: convicted murderer. His name is shu Yao. That's x u Yao.
Speaker 2: This person was, or at least is described as a
Speaker 2: quote distinguished attorney at one point. He's also the former
Speaker 2: chief risk officer at that same company, yu Zoo Games.
Speaker 3: Also, Matt, we got a pause real quick, Yeah, because
Speaker 3: a lot of folks don't understand cro chief risk officer.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what do we think that is? Guys, it's
Speaker 2: an attorney. That's like, how risky is this attorney said?
Speaker 3: It's not lea from take it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what's our exposure?
Speaker 2: But he was a high up person when he first
Speaker 2: joined the company back in twenty seventeen. He then moved
Speaker 2: up in the company, like basically moving into a leadership
Speaker 2: position in a subsidiary that we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2: It but this is what we know about the story.
Speaker 2: According to Kelly ng who's writing for BBC News, so
Speaker 2: Lynn and Sue were apparently on good terms when they
Speaker 2: were working together in twenty seventeen. The subsidiary that she
Speaker 2: was working for was specifically charged with securing some kind
Speaker 2: of intellectual property rights deals and film adaptations, moving this
Speaker 2: three body problem again we say IP or intellectual property,
Speaker 2: moving it into other avenues, other mediums, right, that's what
Speaker 2: he's trying to do. He was tasked with doing it.
Speaker 2: He worked directly and very closely with Lynn she while
Speaker 2: trying to broke her some kind of deal, and eventually
Speaker 2: they got in a room with Netflix and they did
Speaker 2: a really great job that two men in their respective
Speaker 2: teams successfully landed an absolutely redonculous Netflix deal in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: The first season that is out right now that we've
Speaker 2: been talking about on this show cost around one hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty million bucks for US for eight episodes. It
Speaker 2: got but listen, it got released on March twenty first,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, and it topped the most watched list
Speaker 2: on Netflix the following week, the week of March twenty fifth,
Speaker 2: with fifteen point six million views, which is miss Squid Game.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, that's good because it's worthy. What's up with
Speaker 4: this other thing?
Speaker 5: This other through the three body there's another version of
Speaker 5: it that's on another network that I keep seeing.
Speaker 3: There's an earlier Chinese adaptation.
Speaker 4: What it is?
Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, it seems like it was a little bit
Speaker 5: of brand confusion. I'm starting to mean to derail but
Speaker 5: a dero. But I was just wondering if they were related,
Speaker 5: and then I read the description and it does appear
Speaker 5: that it's a different version of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a different version of fewer deaths.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, I don't know anything about that one.
Speaker 3: I mean fewer off stage.
Speaker 2: Oh understood. Okay, so the whole thing. I'm assuming Yuzuo
Speaker 2: Games probably broker that deal as well, unless they acquired
Speaker 2: the rights after that series was made, which is possible.
Speaker 2: I'm just uncertain on that. But anyway, it's a weird,
Speaker 2: mirror and smoke filled series of rooms. When it comes
Speaker 2: to intellectual property rights and film adaptations and streaming services,
Speaker 2: it's very weird.
Speaker 3: Especially across international borders.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, exactly. You can have a completely different thing
Speaker 2: in another country and you could, you know, as someone
Speaker 2: who was basically licensing a property like this book series,
Speaker 2: you could get paid you know, a bunch for However,
Speaker 2: many countries decide to take it up, which is weird. Okay,
Speaker 2: So let's go back to lin and Shoe. They fell
Speaker 2: out when Linn put some other executives in charge of
Speaker 2: the business operations that Shoe was at one time in
Speaker 2: charge of. So they basically had an inter office problem
Speaker 2: or whatever it was.
Speaker 4: Because business disagreement for one.
Speaker 2: Reason or another. This person that helped land the deal
Speaker 2: got pushed out. Okay, and Shoe. According to some of
Speaker 2: the reports that came out some of the trial documents,
Speaker 2: because this is a part of a huge trial that's
Speaker 2: been ongoing for quite a while now, since twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: some of the reports say that Shoe set up an
Speaker 2: entirely new company in Japan to acquire what are quoted
Speaker 2: here as a lethal substances read poisons, and then even
Speaker 2: tested those substances on animals, like funded testing on animals
Speaker 2: with these substances. Then Shoe disguised these substances after he
Speaker 2: found out they worked as probiotic pills and gave them
Speaker 2: to his boss Linn. She or I guess his friend,
Speaker 2: his acquaintance, whoever it was. I don't know what their
Speaker 2: relationship was towards the end there, but he gave them
Speaker 2: to Lynn, and Linn began taking them, thinking, oh, these
Speaker 2: are pills my friend gave me. Lynn then checks himself
Speaker 2: into the hospital because he's feeling super unwell after taking
Speaker 2: these pills. And he was, you know, not feeling well,
Speaker 2: but initially stable, but then his condition got worse and
Speaker 2: worse and worse, until he eventually died ten days after
Speaker 2: being admitted to the hospital on Christmas Day twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: at the age of thirty nine. Insane. Insane that this occurred.
Speaker 2: It's also insane that this person a shoe was picked
Speaker 2: up almost immediately because there there were I guess rumors
Speaker 2: there were things going on, and then there was some
Speaker 2: hard evidence that was discovered quickly went through this huge trial.
Speaker 2: And this is the craziest part to me, Guys like
Speaker 2: some kind of weird the timing of it. He was
Speaker 2: sentenced to death the day after three Body Problem hit Netflix.
Speaker 3: Well, you got to make sure it works first, you know,
Speaker 3: they're done.
Speaker 4: With them, so rewrites or something.
Speaker 3: Why does Netflix never get to season two? Getting kidding
Speaker 3: inappropriate people.
Speaker 4: That had not heard of any of this. That's it's true.
Speaker 3: It's all true.
Speaker 4: Poison them over a business disagreement.
Speaker 3: Everything that is true. Depth to it, Yeah.
Speaker 2: There's depth. There's pre so much pre metas, so many
Speaker 2: actions that had to have been taken for it to
Speaker 2: even occur.
Speaker 3: Right, and also sloppy, isn't it? Well?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess it was slot. I mean, I guess, I
Speaker 2: don't know. I didn't I haven't actually gone deep into
Speaker 2: the trial documents to look at what was actually shown,
Speaker 2: like what evidence did they have? But it does feel
Speaker 2: like one of those things that I don't know, for
Speaker 2: a professional squabble. It's a it's an insane length to
Speaker 2: go and he's now sentenced to death. This is the
Speaker 2: thing I forgot, y'all. Several people who also worked in
Speaker 2: the Yuzu game's offices got sick because there were beverages
Speaker 2: in one of the shared coolers that were apparently also poisoned.
Speaker 2: None of them died, but still, how horrifying is that
Speaker 2: this person or someone working for this person allegedly also
Speaker 2: put poisoned drinks in a common cooler.
Speaker 3: Right, because the idea that this I'm really glad you
Speaker 3: brought up the coworkers, Matt, because this shows us a
Speaker 3: little bit more about premeditation in some ways, clearly an
Speaker 3: un stable actor. But the the from what I understand,
Speaker 3: the fatal dosage is cumulative. Right, so this guy was
Speaker 3: taking more than one you know, magic probiotic pill or whatever,
Speaker 3: and perhaps the revenge motivation was such that they rationalized themselves.
Speaker 3: Anyone can drink this and get a little sick. But
Speaker 3: let me target this guy's favorite drinks, you know, his
Speaker 3: cherry coke zeros or his phantas or whatever, and then uh,
Speaker 3: if he drinks enough of these and I can sell
Speaker 3: them on these probiotics, then I'll get them. And clearly
Speaker 3: it's a terrible thing to do. It was a terrible plan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it certainly didn't work out for him. So officially,
Speaker 2: you know, there are now two bodies that will be
Speaker 2: associated with the three body problem. One that is our
Speaker 2: one persons deceased, and one who will be deceased. His
Speaker 2: time will be up. It just hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 5: Quick question about the how these types of convictions work.
Speaker 5: Does the legal system typically work pretty quickly in China?
Speaker 5: Like if you're saydence to death, are there is there
Speaker 5: an appeals process, Could it's get dragged out the way
Speaker 5: it does here in the United States, or is it
Speaker 5: pretty much like pretty efficient and quick.
Speaker 2: I have no idea.
Speaker 3: It depends, to be honest. I mean it also depends
Speaker 3: in the US or in Japan. No, he is currently
Speaker 3: the murder is currently incarcerated on the Chinese mainland.
Speaker 2: Correct, shut Gal is in prison. He has been for
Speaker 2: quite a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because this all goes down a
Speaker 3: couple of years ago. Right, So he's like in his
Speaker 3: early forties now, is that correct?
Speaker 2: Yeah, thirty nine. He was also thirty nine when all
Speaker 2: of this went down, right.
Speaker 3: Okay, Thankfully I cannot speak with authority on that. We
Speaker 3: do know that it appears the case is pretty ironclad.
Speaker 3: It does appear like it does appear that he did it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the trial's over. He's he was just now sentenced.
Speaker 2: Does that make sense, guys? You yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Guess that is. You know, we know that you have
Speaker 4: to be sentenced here. A lot of people sit on
Speaker 4: death row for many, many, many years.
Speaker 5: I'm just like, not like rooting for him to get killed,
Speaker 5: but I'm just curious about if it works similarly there
Speaker 5: if it's a little bit more you know, open and
Speaker 5: shut and not any opportunities.
Speaker 4: It strikes me that it might be.
Speaker 3: But well, that's a great question, like how does the
Speaker 3: appeals process work and doesn't exist in that nation?
Speaker 2: Unsure? But guys, let's stay in prison for this next
Speaker 2: quick story.
Speaker 3: I've been trying out of prison so long. Maybe bring
Speaker 3: it closer to home.
Speaker 2: Matt, Let's do it, guys. Operation sky Hawk.
Speaker 5: Is that that thing from Batman movie where they put
Speaker 5: the they extract him with the sky god.
Speaker 4: Damn, I know, I was just teasing.
Speaker 2: I like Operation Skyhawk could give me a dost, give
Speaker 2: us some awesome music, ragular, It is all right. So,
Speaker 2: Operation Skyhawk is an ongoing investigation that started in November
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, and it culminated on Thursday, March twenty eighth,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. While we were we were on a
Speaker 2: little work Vaca.
Speaker 4: Guys.
Speaker 3: Hey, not on air, not on air, man, but not
Speaker 3: on air.
Speaker 2: But we weren't here in Georgia. I'm just saying. When
Speaker 2: this went down, that's when search and arrest wars were
Speaker 2: served at two locations in the Metro Atlanta area quote,
Speaker 2: effectively shutting down a sophisticated multi state criminal enterprise that
Speaker 2: included civilians, inmates, and correction staff. What was this enterprise doing,
Speaker 2: you may be asking yourself, Well, they were using aerial
Speaker 2: drones to move cell phones, drugs, and weapons into several
Speaker 2: Georgia Department of Corrections facilities.
Speaker 3: And you might also ask yourself what's the difference between criminals,
Speaker 3: correction office and civilians? Hell of a, then diagram.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know, I said whatever, I don't know,
Speaker 2: And guys, there were one hundred and fifty people arrested,
Speaker 2: including eight Georgia Department of Corrections employees. There were over
Speaker 2: a thousand total charges, including contraband introduction. Whatever that is
Speaker 2: just bringing contraband in I guess to a yes facility.
Speaker 3: Contraband introduction can technically be a book that is not
Speaker 3: greenlit by the prison system.
Speaker 2: Oh snap, what is that Silent Summer? What was that book?
Speaker 2: Silent Spring? That's the contraband body from Uh. There's also
Speaker 2: drug trafficking charges and charges for felons in possession of firearms,
Speaker 2: which is a no no in the books.
Speaker 3: So wait, so are they just are they droning this
Speaker 3: into the yard?
Speaker 2: Oh snap? Oh I thought Sorry, I thought you were
Speaker 2: making a play on droning. Yes, that is what they're doing.
Speaker 3: Oh sorry, are they shoegazing?
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're using drune harsh noising.
Speaker 2: But here's why there are eight corrections facility officers taken in.
Speaker 2: Why do you think guys, Oh I didn't see that
Speaker 2: drone or oh I know exactly where that drone's going.
Speaker 2: That's when I'm on watch in this sector or whatever.
Speaker 3: JDC is super underpaid, yeah, and it's very difficult to
Speaker 3: work as a corrections officer just to be fair, so
Speaker 3: they probably want to make a little extra money.
Speaker 2: Oh, one thousand percent, one thousand percent. We don't know all,
Speaker 2: We don't know everything. This just went down. There are
Speaker 2: RICO charges involved, guys. Yes, there are also PICCIGA charges
Speaker 2: that's participation in criminal gang activity charges associated with this.
Speaker 2: And according to the Governor's Office here in Georgia, this
Speaker 2: quote may end up being the largest gang related RICO
Speaker 2: in Georgia's history so far. Yeah, there's a total street
Speaker 2: value for all the contraband things that are picked up
Speaker 2: of seven million, eighty seven drones, twenty two weapons, two
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy three contraband cell phones, and one hundred
Speaker 2: and eighty civilian cell phones. Who knows the difference? I don't.
Speaker 2: We'll find out someday. Also a crap ton of tobacco,
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of marijuana, bunch of meth and ecstasy.
Speaker 5: Do you have a sense of how these things were
Speaker 5: loaded down and like distributing these packages? It just seems
Speaker 5: like a very conspicuous way of delivering these Ah.
Speaker 2: I didn't see anything in the reporting about what it
Speaker 2: looked like. I didn't see any pictures of a drone.
Speaker 3: We don't have the specifics.
Speaker 4: Can we conjecture it for a minute.
Speaker 5: Are we to assume that someone on the inside is
Speaker 5: meeting this thing as it descends and then unpacking it.
Speaker 5: And then it just seems like it would be so
Speaker 5: obvious with all of the observation towers and things like that,
Speaker 5: to get one of these things over the fence.
Speaker 3: Probably an air drop, because you don't want you don't
Speaker 3: want to risk landing the drone and trying to take
Speaker 3: it off again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that would get everybody caught. Right, because where
Speaker 2: did the drones come from? We have an answer, guys
Speaker 2: from WSBTV. There's a place called Thunder Drones. It is
Speaker 2: in Georgia. It's in Norcross. You can go to their website.
Speaker 2: It still exists and you can see that across the
Speaker 2: street from Thunder Drones there is a microcenter. You guys
Speaker 2: familiar with microcenter.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's like computery type stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a real good place to procure I'm gonna
Speaker 2: call them contraband cell phones.
Speaker 3: Don't blow up.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying it's done.
Speaker 3: It's blown. Yeah.
Speaker 2: According to WSB and Mark Wynn, who was reporting for them,
Speaker 2: this company was caught up in one of the raids
Speaker 2: and there were a bunch of drones that were from
Speaker 2: that facility that were used in this operation. And it
Speaker 2: is just a it's a whole mess that one of
Speaker 2: the people working there, I think probably the owner operator,
Speaker 2: I cannot confirm that or not, but it's someone associated
Speaker 2: with Thunder Drones named Robert Schwartz is now like going
Speaker 2: through it and he's accused of using his drones to
Speaker 2: take the contraband in. There's way more to this story.
Speaker 2: You can look up a ton on it. It is
Speaker 2: fascinating stuff, but for now we're going to keep our
Speaker 2: eyes and ears open. We hope you do.
Speaker 3: Two.
Speaker 2: But as the all powerful. Yogurt once said, May the
Speaker 2: Schwartz be with you, Robert, because you should never underestimate
Speaker 2: the power of the schwartz. And also, I see your
Speaker 2: schwartz is as big as mine. Let's see how well
Speaker 2: you handle it.
Speaker 3: Yet, never cross the schwartz isn't yes, but do cross
Speaker 3: paths with us. Let us know your favorite book, Bounded
Speaker 3: Human Skin. Let us know how you think AI is doing,
Speaker 3: especially with Lavender targeting civilians in the Middle East. Did
Speaker 3: you know Oregon has Oregone has recriminalized drugs? Shout out
Speaker 3: to Havana syndrome, whatever syndrome you may have. Let us
Speaker 3: us know what you think of Operation Skyhawk, all this
Speaker 3: and more, and if you have the space balls. Fellow
Speaker 3: conspiracy realist, why not join us for future episode? Oh,
Speaker 3: why not join us for listener mail. We would love
Speaker 3: to hear from you. We try to be easy to
Speaker 3: find online. That's right.
Speaker 5: You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff where
Speaker 5: we exist on Facebook, on YouTube, and on x fka Twitter.
Speaker 5: You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at the
Speaker 5: handle conspiracy Stuff Show.
Speaker 2: Hey, do you like calling people? Why not give us
Speaker 2: a call. Our number is one eight three three std
Speaker 2: wytk oh, guys, I totally forgot. I may have gotten
Speaker 2: us in trouble. I called the number that's listed for
Speaker 2: thunder Drones on their website, and sure there was a
Speaker 2: message on there that is I don't want to say
Speaker 2: it was definitely an FBI agent, like we're doing a
Speaker 2: voicemail message, but sure, sure it was.
Speaker 3: That's fair enough, Agent dough or however you want to go,
Speaker 3: Please contact us for all your microcenter needs in the future.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a heads up, that was us calling for comment.
Speaker 2: So we're good, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Matt represents us. We are unified front cool.
Speaker 2: All right, I think we're good. So when you call
Speaker 2: that number, give yourself a cool nickname like Helmet or lone.
Speaker 2: Start whatever you want to do. Let us know if
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.
Speaker 2: And then you've got three minutes say whatever you'd like.
Speaker 2: Just let us know if we can use your name
Speaker 2: and message on the air. If you got more to
Speaker 2: say than could fit in that three minute message, why
Speaker 2: not instead shoot us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 3: We are the folks who read every single email message
Speaker 3: we get. To be careful, be aware. The void will
Speaker 3: sometimes right back Give us your essays, give us your
Speaker 3: high coup, your limericks, give us your monikers, Give us
Speaker 3: those ancillary photos, those links. Take us to the edge
Speaker 3: of the rabbit hole. We will do the rest. We
Speaker 3: can't wait to hear from you conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
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