Speaker 1: The volume. Hi, everybody, welcome in Jason timp Hoops tonight.
Speaker 1: We're going to give you a forty minute rundown of
Speaker 1: the Lakers Nuggets, and also some thoughts on Joe Missoula,
Speaker 1: head coach of the Celtics, who's probably presumably out of
Speaker 1: work here pretty quick after they get vanquished, probably a
Speaker 1: sweet by the Miami Heat. You know, my take is,
Speaker 1: I thought the MVP vote became about thirty percent about
Speaker 1: Embiid and seventy percent about Anti Jokic. If you watch
Speaker 1: yokch in this series, he rendered Anthony Davis invisible at times.
Speaker 1: Jokic is so engaged offensively, rebounding, taking the ball up
Speaker 1: the floor, screen setting, passing, and unlike Embiid, he's not
Speaker 1: plotting when he gets the ball. He makes quick decisions
Speaker 1: to attack, constantly waving at his players. He makes sure
Speaker 1: the pacing of that offense everybody's involved, and he's such
Speaker 1: a deft passer that he forces you to be alert.
Speaker 1: You look at the scoring for the Nuggets in this game,
Speaker 1: I mean it's Caseps involved, Gordon Porter Murray, and then
Speaker 1: of course Jokich, a facilitator a score, an offensive and
Speaker 1: defensive rebounder, a catalyst, a screen setter. He's not a
Speaker 1: great defensive player, and Denver is not a great defensive team.
Speaker 1: But you know, I felt bad for Jokic because there
Speaker 1: was this sense is you can't give him a third
Speaker 1: straight MVP because we didn't do that for some notable stars.
Speaker 1: Can we be honest? Jokis right now today is the
Speaker 1: best player in the league. Embiid is not as consistent
Speaker 1: and doesn't do as many things well offensively, and he
Speaker 1: gets hurt a lot. Jannis is terrible, fight to go
Speaker 1: to the free throw line late, Anthony Davis disappears offensively
Speaker 1: every other game. This is the best player in the
Speaker 1: National Basketball Association Jokic, and he should have won a
Speaker 1: third straight MVP. But you know, years ago, if you
Speaker 1: go to the previous five MVPs, not the last five.
Speaker 1: The last five include you know, Jokic a couple of times.
Speaker 1: You know Westbrook Harden. These are stat guys. They're not
Speaker 1: most valuable players on their own teams. I mean, Chris
Speaker 1: Paul was more valuable on that Rockets team than Harden.
Speaker 1: Harden was just more dynamic offensively. But the leadership, the defense,
Speaker 1: the guidance kind of the stewardship was Chris Paul on
Speaker 1: that Rockets team. That's why they led in the series.
Speaker 1: Chris Paul got hurt and they lost. Remember they had
Speaker 1: a three to one lead. Chris Paul got hurt and
Speaker 1: they lost. Harden didn't get hurt, Chris Paul did. So
Speaker 1: we turned the MVP into stats and flash and flamboyance,
Speaker 1: which is just he is a basketball clinic. I mean
Speaker 1: he is. There is nothing offensively he can't do. I
Speaker 1: trust him taking a three mid range, driving ball on
Speaker 1: the floor, rebound, take it up the tile screen setter.
Speaker 1: He's just a remarkable basketball player. And right now, because
Speaker 1: he's so willing to go to the free throw line late,
Speaker 1: I think he's the best basketball player in the world. Oops.
Speaker 1: Tonight podcaster Jason Timph let's talk how great have the
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Speaker 2: Colin. The Denver Nuggets I believe are going to win
Speaker 2: in the NBA Finals, even if the Celtics miraculously come back.
Speaker 2: I think they're better by a significant margin than both
Speaker 2: teams coming out of the East, and they catch some
Speaker 2: pretty specific markers that we don't typically see in NBA
Speaker 2: champions They are a middle of the pack defense, and
Speaker 2: more importantly, they are a team that lacks rim protection.
Speaker 2: As you go back throughout NBA history, almost every single
Speaker 2: team that has won an NBA Championship has not just
Speaker 2: good rim protection, but great rim protection. So what do
Speaker 2: you think is the key to this Nuggets team to
Speaker 2: kick the trend and make it to the finals this year?
Speaker 1: All right, So let's look at a team in the
Speaker 1: East that's struggling. Boston. Jason Tatum, their top player, does
Speaker 1: not have a field goal in the fourth quarter of
Speaker 1: the series. Let's look at another team that just got swept.
Speaker 1: The Lakers ad mostly invisible offensively tonight. What is Denver?
Speaker 1: Jokic thirty, Murray twenty five, Porter fifteen, Gordon twenty two,
Speaker 1: KCP thirteen. They got shot makers, even guys that only
Speaker 1: like Brown hit a couple of key baskets tonight. Boston
Speaker 1: can't count on their number one score, the Lakers offensive
Speaker 1: league can't count on their best player in his prime.
Speaker 1: What Miami and Denver are doing is they've just got
Speaker 1: shot makers, and you know, role players are stepping up. Listen,
Speaker 1: the games never had more players that can hit a jumper.
Speaker 1: I mean we romanticize nick teams that had no pure shooters,
Speaker 1: that would have three guys on the floor that you
Speaker 1: wouldn't even allow to shoot an eighteen footer. Everybody for Denver,
Speaker 1: I mean Gordon to me hit two three pointers. I
Speaker 1: think Gordon to me is just a long athlete, feels
Speaker 1: more around the bucket, mid range. You can put him
Speaker 1: on Lebron, just a classic long vertical athlete. He's cranking
Speaker 1: up threes. So Denver's just got more guys that can
Speaker 1: hit shots. Now, those are real players. Michael Porter was
Speaker 1: the Gatorade Player of the Year in Washington State, goes
Speaker 1: to Missouri. He's now finally post injuries. He grew up,
Speaker 1: He's now coming into his own. He's their fourth offensive
Speaker 1: option on many nights. I mean, he's an elite long
Speaker 1: athlete who can hit jumpers. You can put him on anybody.
Speaker 1: He can do a little rim protection against a forward.
Speaker 1: I just think if you look at all of Denver's players, Gordon, Murray, Jokic,
Speaker 1: and Porter, they're all in their physical prime, all of them.
Speaker 1: The lakers most amendable player in this series still in
Speaker 1: his prime as Austin Reeves. I think Ad tends to
Speaker 1: be an old thirty. A lot of bigs EMBIID they
Speaker 1: get old fast, So I don't think it's excuses. The
Speaker 1: better team, with more shot makers and more of their
Speaker 1: elite players in their prime, swept and aging. I mean,
Speaker 1: Lebron was so tired in the second half. I mean,
Speaker 1: he gave us the greatest old man half in league history,
Speaker 1: and he just ran out of gas. He was exhausted
Speaker 1: in the end.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was driving me crazy listening to Mark Jackson
Speaker 2: and Jeff Van Gundy like backseat drive. His entire second
Speaker 2: half in every decision he's making as he's got forty
Speaker 2: nine to nine and one turnoverlease and he's the only
Speaker 2: Laker that actually gives a shit about winning that game,
Speaker 2: like it was driving me crazy. But I mean, here's
Speaker 2: the thing. If you're not going to be an elite defense,
Speaker 2: if you're not gonna have elite rim protection, you have
Speaker 2: to be truly unguardable. And what makes Denver's starting lineup
Speaker 2: so interesting to me is if you remove any one
Speaker 2: of the pieces, I think they suddenly fall below the
Speaker 2: level of offense you would need in order to win
Speaker 2: a championship. It's not just Jokic, it's the perfectly complimentary
Speaker 2: star in Jamal Murray that in the actions that you
Speaker 2: run with him makes the action unguardable. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, he's great at the one thing Jokich is
Speaker 2: only good at, which is that tough off the dribble
Speaker 2: shot making right, And so they're perfectly complimentary. Add any
Speaker 2: third defender to the mix. It's not just good shooters
Speaker 2: on the weak side. It is dead eye cannot leave
Speaker 2: them open shooters on the weak side. And then Aaron
Speaker 2: Gordon if you just swap him with Jared Vanderbilt, it
Speaker 2: all falls apart. It's him being that perfect guy that
Speaker 2: gets every offensive rebound, every interior seal. He's like a
Speaker 2: legit lob threat. Jared Vanderbilt has no vertical pop. Aaron
Speaker 2: Gordon's just thrown. There was a play in the second
Speaker 2: half where Jokic or first half where Yokic like airball
Speaker 2: to jumper short and Gordon just went up and just grabbed,
Speaker 2: don't it with two hands? Like He's just the whole
Speaker 2: thing functions because every single one of those five guys
Speaker 2: is so perfectly complimentary and they are so truly unguardable
Speaker 2: that they only have to be okay on the defensive
Speaker 2: end of the floor. And so yeah, the Lakers didn't
Speaker 2: really seem to have much trouble driving closeouts and finishing
Speaker 2: at the rim, you know, past Aaron Gordon throughout the series.
Speaker 2: But they they One of the things that I thought
Speaker 2: Denver did a really nice job of in this series
Speaker 2: is making sure the ball ended up in the hands
Speaker 2: of the wrong guy for the Lakers, a lot just
Speaker 2: whip away. Their team was set up, and like Austin,
Speaker 2: there was a really interesting adjustment that Mike Malone made
Speaker 2: in Game two where he moved KCP onto Austin Reeves
Speaker 2: instead of Jamal Murray on Austin Reeves, and that's their
Speaker 2: best perimeter defender. He kind of started to make things
Speaker 2: tougher on Austin Reeves, and suddenly the ball just kept
Speaker 2: ending up in Dennis's hands with four seconds on the
Speaker 2: shot clock, or in Ruy's hands with four seconds on
Speaker 2: the shot clock, and those possessions just typically aren't going
Speaker 2: to end super well. I thought it was a brilliant
Speaker 2: game plan from Deniver.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's something you mentioned at the end, and I
Speaker 1: almost tweeted it tonight in the second half. In the
Speaker 1: first half, Lebron basically took over the key possessions. But
Speaker 1: in the second half I could count. I bet you
Speaker 1: if you went back, the Lakers had a dozen useless possessions.
Speaker 1: And when you have limited shot makers in eighties invisible,
Speaker 1: those are bad possessions. Denver is good enough where if
Speaker 1: they get late in the shot clock, they had a
Speaker 1: couple of those. Murray had one at the end of
Speaker 1: the game where they just got trapped. Lebron came out
Speaker 1: and guarded Murray and he got I think the shot
Speaker 1: clock went off. They maybe have two bad possessions a
Speaker 1: half for a game, you know, and that stuff adds up.
Speaker 1: You know, we had talked about this that the Lakers
Speaker 1: were a pretty low ceiling offense. Well think about tonight.
Speaker 1: D low, one shot, AD mostly invisible Lebron in the
Speaker 1: second half. Guest, the fact that it was that close
Speaker 1: is staggering. This is a really good Denver team. I mean,
Speaker 1: Dilo gave you nothing. AD in the first half, give
Speaker 1: you absolutely nothing Lebron in the second half. He was tired.
Speaker 1: How is it that close? So you know, I look
Speaker 1: at the Lakers and I think I wouldn't run this back.
Speaker 1: You can't make Lebron younger. Austin Reeves, as good as
Speaker 1: he is, should be a four starter on a championship team, right,
Speaker 1: not a one, two or three. He should be a four.
Speaker 1: He's kind of consistently capable of hitting threes and creating,
Speaker 1: so I like him. He reminds me they're totally different players.
Speaker 1: But like KCP, it's not afraid to take a big shot,
Speaker 1: likes contact, you know, even if it's a bad matchup,
Speaker 1: He'll play it with pride. Like I like both guys
Speaker 1: the way they play. They're just like they're talented, scrappy
Speaker 1: guys unafraid to take a big shot. I mean, Jason
Speaker 1: Tatum's brilliant and looks reluctant. Austin Reeves and KCP are
Speaker 1: never reluctant players, like it's my kind of guy, right,
Speaker 1: and those should be your fours or your fives. But
Speaker 1: I look at this Laker team and their issues are
Speaker 1: not really correctable with time. Like Denver, for instance, with
Speaker 1: a championship, should be a more confident version of Denver.
Speaker 1: Golden State will reboot something. You figure the Clippers eventually,
Speaker 1: well maybe they're a year away. Try to find a
Speaker 1: true point guard so they can get into their offense. Quicker.
Speaker 1: Okc's just getting better. Memphis will have their bigs back,
Speaker 1: like the West was Wonky should add a piece on
Speaker 1: the bench or two. They'll move eight and bring in
Speaker 1: more help, so you're like the West won't be as
Speaker 1: weird as it was, and many of the other team's issues.
Speaker 1: Bench for bigs returning for Memphis, some maturity, Dylan Brook's
Speaker 1: gone bench for Phoenix size. For the Warriors, they're correctable.
Speaker 1: What Laker issue is correctable? Eight's inconsistency, Austin Reeves ceiling
Speaker 1: Dlo's gone flakiness Lebron's age. So to me, you got
Speaker 1: to take a swing on this that these are not
Speaker 1: one year correctible. You've got to go find some personnel
Speaker 1: you keep ruey. But I mean, let's be honest, Vanderbilt, Beasley,
Speaker 1: d Lo, these are not trustable players in a big spot.
Speaker 2: They desperately need over the top shot making. It's one
Speaker 2: of the things in basketball that sometimes when it's your
Speaker 2: main thing, that's a bad idea. Like that's kind of
Speaker 2: what I didn't like about the Phoenix Suns this year
Speaker 2: is like their main thing was we have to make
Speaker 2: shots over the top of the defense. But making shots
Speaker 2: over the top of the defense, especially in late clock situations,
Speaker 2: is a great way to kind of boost your offensive numbers,
Speaker 2: and it can be the difference in games. Let's think
Speaker 2: about Game one of this series. The Lakers had a
Speaker 2: Lebron James three at the end of the game that
Speaker 2: could have tied it. Do you remember a Nikola Jokic
Speaker 2: kieve at the third quarter buzzer that went in. There
Speaker 2: was a Jamal Murray keieve on the first possession of
Speaker 2: the fourth quarter that went in. Like shot making over
Speaker 2: the top from Denver stole Game one when the Lakers
Speaker 2: were in position to be able to get it. Look
Speaker 2: at Game two, it's an eleven point Laker lead in
Speaker 2: the second half. There were a half dozen possessions in
Speaker 2: that fourth quarter where it got to a late clock
Speaker 2: situation and Jamal Murray just stuck a tough step back
Speaker 2: jumper in someone's face. Look at tonight, how many possessions
Speaker 2: did the Lakers play fantastic defense? But Jokicic just made
Speaker 2: some thing out of nothing at the end. And that's
Speaker 2: the hard part is, like you look at that for
Speaker 2: the Lakers this summer, everything else, I think they checked
Speaker 2: pretty well. I think they're an outstanding defensive team. I
Speaker 2: think that they've got a lot of downhill rim pressure.
Speaker 2: They've got some really smart playmakers on the team, Lebron James,
Speaker 2: Austin Reeves, two really high IQ guys. They just don't
Speaker 2: have that reliable over the top shooting. And so when
Speaker 2: you look at the offseason, it's like, okay, let's go
Speaker 2: get Kyrie. Okay, great, but because of the new rules,
Speaker 2: like you're gonna have to let go of at least
Speaker 2: one of Austin Reeves and Ruyja Chamura you're gonna severely
Speaker 2: handicap your ability to make moves on the margins. Not
Speaker 2: to mention, I'm not even sure logistically how you pull
Speaker 2: that off, because you've got to get both sides on
Speaker 2: board in a side and trade, so that doesn't really
Speaker 2: seem realistic. So and if you go like Colin, we're
Speaker 2: gonna talk about Boston here in a little bit and
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about their issues with finding that
Speaker 2: alpha dog offensive player. If you go around the league,
Speaker 2: there's not really a great option. And so the best
Speaker 2: chance that the Lakers have, kind of like for Boston,
Speaker 2: their best chance in my opinion, is just Tatum getting
Speaker 2: better better. They need Anthony Davis to get in the
Speaker 2: damn gym this summer and figure out how to make
Speaker 2: some of those shots that he couldn't make all season long.
Speaker 2: Lebron James I think is going to be fine. He is,
Speaker 2: like he shot thirty seven percent on six attempts per
Speaker 2: game from three in his previous five postseason runs. The
Speaker 2: dude is one of the more reliable jump shooters in
Speaker 2: the postseason that you'll see from a star. He's just
Speaker 2: having a slump offseason, just like he did in twenty
Speaker 2: fifteen or postseason. I should say I think he'll bounce back.
Speaker 2: But really the only answer to the Lakers problems is
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis gets better. Colin I said for the series,
Speaker 2: the only chance for the Lakers to win was Anthony
Speaker 2: Davis and Lebron James had to play like superstars and
Speaker 2: they had to kind of like compete with what Jokic
Speaker 2: was doing. I thought there was a gigantic chasm between
Speaker 2: the level of play of Jokich and Anthony Davis and
Speaker 2: all that really was the difference of the series.
Speaker 1: Listen it. First of all, even when he's not scoring,
Speaker 1: Jokich is so engaged. You know, like multiple times grab
Speaker 1: the rebound. I'm just going to take the ball up
Speaker 1: the floor and lead the break. Eighty is not going
Speaker 1: to do that. He's a brilliant passer. Eighties not really
Speaker 1: active hands. When Ady disappears offensively and he's not scoring,
Speaker 1: he's not helping anybody. You know, Jokic when he gets
Speaker 1: gassed and he does, he just becomes a facilidator. You're
Speaker 1: looking at the world's best big man. He is. I mean,
Speaker 1: Yannis is terrified late in games to get to the
Speaker 1: free throw line. We're talking about the greatest big in
Speaker 1: the game right now, and it's Jokic. There's no question
Speaker 1: he you know, embiid can be plotting as a player
Speaker 1: right First of all, he's not available, But we talked
Speaker 1: about this. Sometimes you're like, dude, I'm gonna give you
Speaker 1: the ball. Turn shoot between him and Hard and it's like, guys,
Speaker 1: he just kill the movement. This is painful to watch.
Speaker 1: I'm not a basketball expert, but just everybody just stops
Speaker 1: k Jokic makes decisions very quickly. He gets the ball
Speaker 1: off very quickly. He's he's screening. In fact, sometimes he
Speaker 1: gets impatient, Murray, come off the screen, let's go. You
Speaker 1: can see he is facilitating everything. He's pressing. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of bigs don't do that. They kind of
Speaker 1: feel like it's a rest time. Like tonight. Ad sometimes
Speaker 1: felt like he was resting on offense.
Speaker 2: Eighty mailed at in tonight Colin, I thought, I thought
Speaker 2: that was an embarrassing performance from him. I thought watching
Speaker 2: Lebron James leave it all out on the floor while
Speaker 2: Ad just kind of floated through the game was kind
Speaker 2: of embarrassing.
Speaker 1: To be honest, you know, I suggest this all the time.
Speaker 1: Adis got a year left and then I think a
Speaker 1: player option, isn't it something like that. This is the
Speaker 1: longest stretch of not being hurt. I think you have
Speaker 1: to at least take phone calls. I always say this.
Speaker 1: In the NFL, there's only five quarterbacks. I would not
Speaker 1: take a phone call on, you know, Mahomes, Josh Allen Burrow,
Speaker 1: Trevor Lawrence Herbert. I'm taking and probably Jalen Hurts. Now
Speaker 1: I'm taking a phone call on everybody else. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying I trade him, I'm taking the call. I think
Speaker 1: you got to take a call on a d You
Speaker 1: gotta listen to people. And I've said this before with Lebron,
Speaker 1: his greatness is in halfs and spurs, and you're gonna
Speaker 1: get about fifty eight games. That's fine, But then the
Speaker 1: one of the two you got to give me. Gotta
Speaker 1: give me seventy games. You gotta give me Tatum, you
Speaker 1: gotta give me Jayleen Brown. At this point, if you're
Speaker 1: going to keep Lebron and they will, you gotta give
Speaker 1: me a seventy game guy. It can't be another guy
Speaker 1: who plays fifty eight or another guy, as you just
Speaker 1: pointed out, who disappears. I'll take flaws, but you got
Speaker 1: to give me seventy games and energy. You gotta give me.
Speaker 1: You gotta give me a two way player. And I
Speaker 1: think you have to take a call in a D.
Speaker 1: And I think this is the stretch. He has tremendous value.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I look at a team like the New York Knicks
Speaker 1: and they and they don't have much to give. But
Speaker 1: could you get a could you get a RJ. Barrett
Speaker 1: Julius Randall a D. Now that sounds horrible, but RJ
Speaker 1: is going to give me a lot of games. Randall's
Speaker 1: gonna give me a lot of games. Between the two,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get fairly consistent points. Now, again, it's on
Speaker 1: the surface, it sounds like an absolutely horrible move, and
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just throwing it out there. But he
Speaker 1: would serve with Brunson giving you seventy games, sixty five games,
Speaker 1: he would serve. A D would be a great player
Speaker 1: in New York. And I think maybe you have to
Speaker 1: go get in a couple of guys, a couple of
Speaker 1: guys to give you a real consistent, solid B plus play.
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I'm maybe this, you know, again,
Speaker 1: this is just vomiting here. But when when Lebron is
Speaker 1: giving you great halfs or moments, or one great game
Speaker 1: in a road trip, a four game Roady, or maybe
Speaker 1: you know, a great game and a half on a
Speaker 1: four game Roady, you gotta give me. You got to
Speaker 1: give me a more consistent guy, even if I give
Speaker 1: me a couple of B plus guys. But the Ad
Speaker 1: Lebron thing, I think we feel because they get along
Speaker 1: and one's a room protector and one can drive and score.
Speaker 1: I think we feel like, you know, gosh, they really
Speaker 1: work together. Well, I think their personalities do, but their
Speaker 1: minutes don't right, their energy doesn't. Ad feels old and
Speaker 1: he's thirty's.
Speaker 2: It's tough because the prospect of trading Anthony Davis gets
Speaker 2: really scary when you accept the reality that you're probably
Speaker 2: not going to get nearly as much back as you think.
Speaker 2: And then two, I legitimately think this roster is pretty
Speaker 2: close to a championship level roster. I mean, they were
Speaker 2: one of the final four teams standing after starting to
Speaker 2: and ten. That's not nothing, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And I know that you can explain away everything that
Speaker 2: happens over the course of a playoff run. Every team
Speaker 2: has certain circumstances going on. I mean, even Denver didn't
Speaker 2: play well over the last half, like last third of
Speaker 2: the season, So had they lost a series somewhere along
Speaker 2: the way, people could have been like, oh, well, Denver
Speaker 2: mailed it in down there, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's like you can explain things away. They were one
Speaker 2: of the final four teams standing. But everything you're hinting
Speaker 2: at at the problem is absolutely true with Lebron James
Speaker 2: at this phase in their career. They need a superstar
Speaker 2: that is dependable both in availability and in his competitiveness
Speaker 2: and his motor because Lebron James is going to ebb
Speaker 2: and flow in those areas as a guy who's been
Speaker 2: in the league over twenty years and so again, and
Speaker 2: everything for me comes back to this, Anthony Davis just
Speaker 2: simply has to get better, and he's got to take
Speaker 2: better care of his body, and he just has to
Speaker 2: be available and more impactful. That solves so many problems.
Speaker 2: And again, this is such an interesting example of the
Speaker 2: difference between defensive impact and offensive impact. I've been preaching
Speaker 2: about how amazing Anthony Davis is Defensively, I think he's
Speaker 2: the best defender in the world. Over the course of
Speaker 2: the Golden State Series, they found a way to pull
Speaker 2: them away from the rim, and they figured some stuff out.
Speaker 2: Denver based neutralized Anthony Davis defensively. They were giving up
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty one points per one hundred possessions
Speaker 2: in the first three games. That's the best what I
Speaker 2: think was the best defense in the sixteen team field.
Speaker 2: Denver was lighting them on fire. And so it goes
Speaker 2: to the larger kind of basketball philosophy, which is that
Speaker 2: defensive players can be schemed around. You can find a
Speaker 2: way to attack a weaker defender, you can find a
Speaker 2: way to get him out of the action. But on
Speaker 2: the other end of the floor, if you've got a
Speaker 2: truly unguardable offensive player, there's nothing you can do about it.
Speaker 2: You're It's kind of like in that Warrior series. You're
Speaker 2: at the mercy of Steph Macon and missing shots. And
Speaker 2: so at the end of the day, like Anthony Davis
Speaker 2: absolutely has to improve. It's the only way that makes
Speaker 2: this work. I don't I think any other trade is
Speaker 2: going to drop them below a championship ceiling. Ad has
Speaker 2: to get better. That to me, that, to me is
Speaker 2: the end of the story. Like everything lies in him
Speaker 2: and his competitiveness. Like, dude, Nikola Jokic hit a bunch
Speaker 2: of shots in your face while he swept you on
Speaker 2: your home floor. Take that personally, go in the gym.
Speaker 2: You know you were a liability on offense. I tweeted
Speaker 2: out these numbers, but Colin, when you threw the ball
Speaker 2: to Anthony Davis in the post or in an isolation
Speaker 2: situation in the bubble, it was good for one point
Speaker 2: one points per possession, which is outstanding for a stagnant
Speaker 2: offensive situation. This year, he's good for about two thirds
Speaker 2: of a point. He's not even in the same stratosphere
Speaker 2: as an offensive player as he used to be. And
Speaker 2: I see Laker fans going like, why aren't they throwing
Speaker 2: the ball to Ad more? Why aren't they because he
Speaker 2: can't score anymore. He's not the same guy. He's just
Speaker 2: not Yeah, and so at a certain point he's the
Speaker 2: one light at the end of the tunnel is Anthony
Speaker 2: Davis has to get better with his offensive polish. It's
Speaker 2: the only thing that'll save this team.
Speaker 1: I don't think I would take a run on Kyrie Irving,
Speaker 1: but Dallas would that Dallas would love AD. He solves
Speaker 1: all their issues. He gives them a second score. He's
Speaker 1: not at all ball dependent. Luca gives you the seventy
Speaker 1: games and the consistent energy. Anthony scores twenty three without
Speaker 1: really setting up plays for him. He gives them a
Speaker 1: rim protector. I heard at the trading deadline Dallas has
Speaker 1: their eye on Anthony Davis and they think the Lakers.
Speaker 1: They think Lebron still has a soft spot for Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 1: By the way, that would be a shot maker. And
Speaker 1: you know, again you can roll your eyes at that.
Speaker 1: You'd have to give me more than Kyrie Irving. And
Speaker 1: I don't think Dallas has it. Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe you go Luca ad and you go Tim Hardaway.
Speaker 1: Is it Tim Hardaway Kyrie Irving? I don't know if
Speaker 1: the salary's match. You know a couple of guys that
Speaker 1: can hit shots for the Lakers with Lebron, Austin Reeves
Speaker 1: and Lebron running the offense, and guys that can store
Speaker 1: on the outside. Again, just vomiting, I'm throwing it out there,
Speaker 1: but I know Dallas will absolutely call on Ad. He
Speaker 1: solves the Luca issue by the way. Also, unlike a
Speaker 1: Porzingis or a Kyrie, a very chill doesn't want the attention,
Speaker 1: really a low profile star with Luke. So it's like,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to go back to this, Dallas is
Speaker 1: calling on a d I think the Lakers and the
Speaker 1: Mavericks you will hear in the next month something. I
Speaker 1: really believe that, And I think you have to take
Speaker 1: the phone call and listen again.
Speaker 2: You take the phone call no matter what, to see
Speaker 2: what kind of things are being offered. The problem is
Speaker 2: is like going back to our conversation in the first topic,
Speaker 2: which is you lose Anthony Davis, you lose your rent protection,
Speaker 2: you lose your elite defense, which then automatically end of discussion.
Speaker 2: You can't win a championship unless you're just otherworldly good offensively,
Speaker 2: which Lebron and Kyrie. Even with Kyrie and Lebron at
Speaker 2: this phase in his career, you're not there. That said,
Speaker 2: Kyrie's is actually perfect and Lakers fans, when we discuss this,
Speaker 2: they are way too dismissed of Kyrie's talent and the
Speaker 2: fact that playing in Los Angeles with a real chance
Speaker 2: to win a championship with Lebron, James as someone that
Speaker 2: can kind of manage his This is some of the
Speaker 2: personality dynamics that play. I actually think it's not to
Speaker 2: put it clearly. If I thought you could get Kyrie
Speaker 2: by only losing Ruie and still fielding a roster of
Speaker 2: six to seven legit rotation players with a couple guys
Speaker 2: who can work on the periphery, if I could roll
Speaker 2: out Kyrie Irving with Austin Reeves, with Jared Vanderbilt, with
Speaker 2: Lebron James and Anthony Davis, I think that solves all
Speaker 2: their problems in overnight. They become a much better team.
Speaker 2: The problem is is it's just such a long shot
Speaker 2: for so many of those things to break right. And again,
Speaker 2: like you just start to look around the league. It's
Speaker 2: like like I was listening to you this morning when
Speaker 2: you were talking with Jason McIntyre about different things that
Speaker 2: could fix the Celtics, and one of our guys here
Speaker 2: at the volume, mister Rory, he's a big Celtics fan,
Speaker 2: text me last night and he's like, dude, who can
Speaker 2: we trade Jalen for? Like what are we getting back?
Speaker 2: And you start to look around and it's like, well
Speaker 2: KD was that guy, But he's not available anymore. None
Speaker 2: of these other guys are really moving the needle. You know,
Speaker 2: It's funny you look at the It's like, Oh, Jimmy
Speaker 2: Butler's killing us, How do we get a guy who
Speaker 2: can go to totte with Jimmy Butler? Oh, Nikola Joki
Speaker 2: is killing us? How do we get a guy that
Speaker 2: can go toe to toete with Nikolajokic. There's like eight
Speaker 2: of those dudes in the entire league, and nobody wants
Speaker 2: to give them up. So it's like at a certain point,
Speaker 2: like sometimes you have a ceiling. It's kind of like
Speaker 2: the Embeid hardened pairing. There's a ceiling to that. They're
Speaker 2: just is They're not going to They're not going to
Speaker 2: go tote. Those guys crumbled under Tatum, the same guy
Speaker 2: who's currently crumbling under Jimmy Butler. Like, there's levels to this,
Speaker 2: and those top guys they're impossible to replace. You cannot
Speaker 2: go toe to toe with them unless you've got another
Speaker 2: guy at their level. Lebron is rapidly declining. I don't
Speaker 2: know what the answer is. Again, I keep coming back
Speaker 2: to eighty. Just has to get better.
Speaker 1: Well Tomorrow night, Miami with a huge coaching edge probably
Speaker 1: finishes off Boston. You know, Brad Stevens highly wanted, recommended
Speaker 1: Joe Missoula for the job. So that's that's a much
Speaker 1: more difficult firing than most like he was Brad's sort
Speaker 1: of his mentor. So that's going to be an awkward situation.
Speaker 1: But I will tell you that it happens a lot
Speaker 1: more than we think, And it happens all the time
Speaker 1: in college sports, where a really good coach leaves or
Speaker 1: is forced to leave, or takes a better job, and
Speaker 1: you give it to the coordinator and he's just not ready.
Speaker 1: I mean, it happens six times a year in college football.
Speaker 1: And in fact, when I grew up in the Pacific Northwest,
Speaker 1: all four schools did it. So Washington in the seventies
Speaker 1: was a dominant college football program. Seventies and eighties, legend leaves,
Speaker 1: they give it to the defensive coordinator. Jim Lambright fails,
Speaker 1: Ralph Miller. Oregon State, at one point in the seventies
Speaker 1: had a top ten basketball program left. They give it
Speaker 1: to his assistant, Jimmy Anderson. They never recovered Oregon Chip Kelly,
Speaker 1: Mark Helfrich didn't work, Mike Price, and I think it
Speaker 1: was Bill Doba at Washington State football didn't work. So
Speaker 1: you see this all the time. Joe Mozula is just
Speaker 1: not ready. He could be ready in four years. But
Speaker 1: it's like it's the Celtics. It's not like he got
Speaker 1: a bad team and he could play invisible midweek games.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh no, it's Eric Spolstra, the world's best coach,
Speaker 1: and they'll play again on national TV. And Boston's such
Speaker 1: an outrageously outspoken, in your face media market and I'm
Speaker 1: watching it and I'm like, oh, this poor guy. I
Speaker 1: mean again, if you're a college coach that's over their skis,
Speaker 1: you play on Raycon TV in the South, nobody sees it.
Speaker 1: There's seven games on Saturday in your region. Joe Mizzoula
Speaker 1: just you can't hide in Boston. It's just it's too
Speaker 1: intense a market. You just can't hide. And so I
Speaker 1: think they're gonna I don't think they have to make
Speaker 1: wholesale changes. I do wish they had somebody that was
Speaker 1: a little more aggressive offense, because I think they have
Speaker 1: really good defensive players. I think they could find a
Speaker 1: point guard that's not gifted off defensively. But somebody who
Speaker 1: get you into the offense. They remind me of a
Speaker 1: more talented version of the Clippers, Jason, when Paul George
Speaker 1: and Kawhi are kind of running it and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is odd. This is not there. This is not
Speaker 1: what it's like the wildcat offense in football when you
Speaker 1: hiked it to a running back. You were getting yards,
Speaker 1: but you're like, this doesn't look right, this is not right.
Speaker 1: I've watched the Clippers for three years, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: could we get a point guard? I mean, that's why
Speaker 1: Westbrook kind of worked for them, like he got them
Speaker 1: into their their offense. I feel like Boston a lot
Speaker 1: of times Tatum looks at Brown, Brown looks at Smart Smart.
Speaker 1: It's more of a defensive player. I think if Boston
Speaker 1: needs anything your opinion, I'm interested in somebody to get
Speaker 1: him into their offense.
Speaker 2: Quicker. So it's interesting, Colin, because we were having a
Speaker 2: similar conversation after the Warriors series last year. And you know,
Speaker 2: it's funny. Every time I've been watching basketball forever, not
Speaker 2: as long as you have, but for a long time,
Speaker 2: and every season when it finishes, I always like to
Speaker 2: have like a couple of things that I learned. I
Speaker 2: actually do a little video at the end of each season,
Speaker 2: like of what I learned about the NBA this year
Speaker 2: and last year it was like, oh, you know, the
Speaker 2: Celtics needed ball handling, they needed ball handling. But one
Speaker 2: of the things that I think this season has taught
Speaker 2: me is like, there's a difference between aggregate ball handling
Speaker 2: and top end ball handling. And we thought that the
Speaker 2: Celtics could fix their issues by bringing in another ball
Speaker 2: handler right in the form of Malcolm Brogden. But then
Speaker 2: you find yourself at the end of the game and
Speaker 2: it's like, what are we going to do run our
Speaker 2: clutch offense through Malcolm Brogden when Jason Tatum's on the floor,
Speaker 2: and it's like, oh, actually, the real problem here is
Speaker 2: is Tatum's not as good as Jimmy. That's the real
Speaker 2: problem here, and he doesn't have someone that can help
Speaker 2: kind of navigate those alpha dog scenarios. And that's where
Speaker 2: I think the Missoula thing becomes a problem. I think
Speaker 2: that the answer to the Celtics this year and moving
Speaker 2: forward is, yes, Jalen Brown's going to be way too expensive, Maxim.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, he's too good to let go you're not
Speaker 2: going to get anything worth as nearly as good as him.
Speaker 2: In return, I think you've got to run it back
Speaker 2: basically with an alpha dog coach. I think we underestimated
Speaker 2: emy Udoka's impact last year in the way he helped
Speaker 2: Tatum and Brown navigate those scenarios because you can say
Speaker 2: one thing, you yes, Boston last year had a lot
Speaker 2: of the similar tendencies when it came to sloppiness and
Speaker 2: decision making, but those dudes fought every minute when they
Speaker 2: were out there. They were one of the most impressive
Speaker 2: defenses I had ever seen. Their defensive identity is gone.
Speaker 2: They're giving up like ten additional points per hunter possessions
Speaker 2: in the half court compared to last year. Defensively, they
Speaker 2: are not the same type of psychological entity that they
Speaker 2: were last year. And so again, kind of like we
Speaker 2: were talking about with Anthony Davis, I was looking down
Speaker 2: the list and I'm like, man, and we don't know
Speaker 2: the deals. Maybe Brooklyn was like, we don't want Jalen Brown,
Speaker 2: but if Kevin Durant was available, like last summer, that
Speaker 2: was the move, because then you're bringing in an alpha
Speaker 2: dog that can be in a series with Jimmy Butler
Speaker 2: and not be scared and command the offense down the
Speaker 2: stretch slot Jason Tatum into a supporting role of the
Speaker 2: way that he's supposed to, but go down the list
Speaker 2: of guys this summer, Like, is Bradley Beal going to
Speaker 2: solve their problems? I don't think so. So the reality
Speaker 2: is their best bet is Jason Tatum developing as a
Speaker 2: ball handler, and I think that can be accelerated by
Speaker 2: the right coach, and it needs to be like a
Speaker 2: real alpha dog personality. And this is why I keep
Speaker 2: coming back to Nick Nurse, and I know he's a
Speaker 2: finalist for the Bucks job, and so hopefully Boston becomes
Speaker 2: aware of that and jumps in a little sooner. I'm
Speaker 2: not the biggest Nick Nurse fan because sometimes I think
Speaker 2: he can be a little over aggressive with this scheming
Speaker 2: and he's a big, gimmicky, overhelp defense guy, which sometimes
Speaker 2: can hurt you in certain situations. But you know, he's
Speaker 2: the guy that wrote a book right after he won
Speaker 2: a championship and in the book was like criticizing his
Speaker 2: own players, and he like he actually is a presence
Speaker 2: in the room that will get buy in. Like Missoula
Speaker 2: straight up admitted in the postgame presser that he lost
Speaker 2: the locker room. He said it, Yeah, I've lost a
Speaker 2: connection with these guys, Like it's just not there. You
Speaker 2: need somebody that can drive that alpha dog mentality the
Speaker 2: same way that Email Yudoka did. I think I think
Speaker 2: the move is a coach. And again, like just like
Speaker 2: you field calls, someone calls and says, hey, we'll give
Speaker 2: you so and so and so and so. For Jaylen Brown,
Speaker 2: you field the call and if the right ball handler
Speaker 2: is there, Yeah, I like the move, but I just
Speaker 2: don't know who that is. And so in that scenario,
Speaker 2: you have to go with the most talented roster in
Speaker 2: basketball and hope a better coach fixes the problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it's also been in the are you This
Speaker 1: example on TV is that when Nick Saban first got
Speaker 1: the SEC job, the SEC had some really Tomato can coaches. Now,
Speaker 1: Lane Kiffen Kirby Smart, there's like real guys there. This
Speaker 1: was a year in which the coaching in the East
Speaker 1: was weak. So Tibbs is a culture guy, energy guy,
Speaker 1: limitations offensively. Missoula is a kid. Doc Rivers is a
Speaker 1: culture guy, not really an adapter a scheme guy. Budenholzer,
Speaker 1: the team got old, and I you know, he got
Speaker 1: kind of unveiled in some coaching situational late game stuff.
Speaker 1: Quinn Snyder great, but got the job in late February.
Speaker 1: It was a it was kind of a bad Eastern
Speaker 1: Conference here for coaching, and here's Spolstra, and I think
Speaker 1: he just took the hatchet out to these guys. He
Speaker 1: got a defensive coach, he got a couple culture coaches.
Speaker 1: You know, he hit the matchups worked out well, and
Speaker 1: I think I think what happened is Milwaukee got really old,
Speaker 1: really fast. You saw at the end of the year.
Speaker 1: I thought they I thought, like an old team like
Speaker 1: Jay Crowder, Joe Ingles, like, oh wow, they can't play fast.
Speaker 1: Chris Middleton, Oh he's like the fourth best player and
Speaker 1: a good team like it happened like in thirty games.
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, these guys aren't getting better. Ingles had surgery.
Speaker 1: You're like, he's seven a game. He can't play. And
Speaker 1: so I do think I think Miami's I don't think
Speaker 1: they're going to return next year. I think they're going
Speaker 1: to go after like Damian Lillard. I think they're very
Speaker 1: attractive now because some of their young guys. They're undrafted guys.
Speaker 1: They're not you can't resign these guys. They're playing completely
Speaker 1: over their skis. So I think they'll they'll go out
Speaker 1: and get a dame. But I think I think there
Speaker 1: are sometimes circumstances, Like I don't think Denver's a circumstantial team,
Speaker 1: they're just really good. I think there's some circumstances that
Speaker 1: have really worked. Iman Adulka's back with Boston. This is
Speaker 1: a very even series. I mean this it's so I think,
Speaker 1: like Saban early in the SEC, I think, I think Spolstra,
Speaker 1: I kind of know this is like I got, I
Speaker 1: got culture coach, sixty one year old coach, rookie coach,
Speaker 1: and it all and Lebron's over in the West that
Speaker 1: it all sort of worked out well.
Speaker 2: You and I've been on this the entire tail end
Speaker 2: of the season. Like Spulshre is the best coach in
Speaker 2: the NBA. He is the best, yeah, protecting his players
Speaker 2: from their own weaknesses. Schematically, he's always several levels above
Speaker 2: his opponent in these series, you know, ironically, like he's
Speaker 2: pulling rabbits out of hats here man, like he's he's
Speaker 2: making something out of nothing. And again, our guy Draymond's like, hey,
Speaker 2: don't call them undrafted. Their pros just like everyone else.
Speaker 2: I agree, and I agree with. I appreciate the sentiment
Speaker 2: of what he's saying, but I'm sorry, but if Caleb
Speaker 2: Martin out played Jalen Brown in this series, there's not
Speaker 2: a single there's not a single general manager in the
Speaker 2: entire NBA that would take Caleb Martin over Jalen Brown.
Speaker 2: And that's the that's the exciting part from Miami fan
Speaker 2: is like they're going to have more talented rosters in
Speaker 2: the next ten years. Spulture's going to be coaching those teams.
Speaker 2: The Heat are just going to be around, like they're
Speaker 2: just going to be in these fights non stop. But
Speaker 2: there's no doubt that that coaching element plays a huge role,
Speaker 2: especially when you get deeper into the postseason. I mean,
Speaker 2: Mike Budenholzer was unwilling to adjust, completely unwilling to adjust
Speaker 2: as m as Jimmy Butler was smoking them. Joe Missoula
Speaker 2: was way too late to make any sort of aggressive
Speaker 2: adjustment in this particular series. It's given them an advantage.
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny with the NBA. To me, it's
Speaker 2: so many times, it's about a war of attrition and
Speaker 2: like who's kind of left standing at the end of
Speaker 2: the day. Jimmy Butler, after losing in the Eastern Conference
Speaker 2: finals last year, was being interviewed and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: we had enough this year. We'll have enough next year.
Speaker 2: Except for next year, we're going to get it done.
Speaker 2: And at the time he sounded crazy. And here they
Speaker 2: are with less talent than last year, and they're going
Speaker 2: to go to the NBA Finals. They're going to be
Speaker 2: Boston tomorrow because Boston is going to quit. And it's like,
Speaker 2: like that's they just happened to stick around while everything
Speaker 2: else crumbled around own them, and now they now they're
Speaker 2: four wins away from an NBA championship. It's there Miami.
Speaker 2: Miami's one of those teams that we can never rule
Speaker 2: out in any situation. I don't care if they're in
Speaker 2: the back end of the playing tournament that they were,
Speaker 2: they were losing in the final three minutes against Chicago
Speaker 2: in the second playing game. They were under five hundred
Speaker 2: over the last twenty five games of the season. There's
Speaker 2: no scenario where we can write Miami off moving forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you know, going into this series,
Speaker 1: I thought Boston would win. But I said, I think
Speaker 1: Spolstro was gonna win two games. And I also said,
Speaker 1: if I have a better coach and the best player,
Speaker 1: and then BAM's got to be a top three or
Speaker 1: four player, they're going to be. I thought the games
Speaker 1: would be competitive. I didn't know Spoe would win all
Speaker 1: four games. You know, I'll tell you this, BAM's really
Speaker 1: served himself well, he's been. He is so active, jeezu
Speaker 1: he is. He's on the floor, he's you know, he's
Speaker 1: a little bit like Loke Jokic. He's just around the ball.
Speaker 1: He's batting it around, he's volleyballing it around. So they
Speaker 1: get Tyler Hero back next year. I think I think
Speaker 1: they're they need one more. You know, it sounds crazy
Speaker 1: at Jordan Poole thing like they need another. You know,
Speaker 1: Damien's better, but you know Damien's small. Damien is going
Speaker 1: to give you about sixty five games. You know, Damien's
Speaker 1: played high school, college and pro all out West. It'll
Speaker 1: be a little different. I feel like, I think I
Speaker 1: feel like Boston could be a championship team. You bring
Speaker 1: Tyler Hero back, Bam. Jimmy Butler You'll probably keep one
Speaker 1: of the younger guys. They just need they need one more,
Speaker 1: one more lethal shooter. And I know I people just
Speaker 1: keep rolling their eyes at Jordan Pool. I heard it
Speaker 1: was on the Ring or I heard a clip from
Speaker 1: Doc Rivers son Austin Rivers. He was saying, you know,
Speaker 1: I know how you guys. He was talking about Austin Reeves.
Speaker 1: He goes. I like him. He does a lot well,
Speaker 1: he said, but skill set, he's like Jordan Poole's like crazy,
Speaker 1: like crazy talented. And the last couple of games of
Speaker 1: that series against the Lakers, he played way more under control.
Speaker 1: He took a mid range. I'm they're going to take
Speaker 1: calls on him. I am so interested to see where
Speaker 1: he goes, because I really do look at Miami and
Speaker 1: I think to myself, I've got a star, I've got
Speaker 1: length hero coming back. Give me, give me a really
Speaker 1: good two. I mean, wouldn't you want to play on
Speaker 1: that team? I mean, one of the great things is
Speaker 1: you can get your points and your looks in the
Speaker 1: regular season. Butler's Butler's got no interest giving you thirty
Speaker 1: six points in the regular season, right like Jimmy is
Speaker 1: going to compete but he'll in the regular season. You're
Speaker 1: going to get some looks. Miami's going to be really
Speaker 1: interesting next year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they absolutely need to get him a dependable number
Speaker 2: two at some point because here's the thing. I think
Speaker 2: Denver is going to win in the finals for two reasons.
Speaker 2: Denver's better and two. I'm sorry, but as much as
Speaker 2: I appreciate and respect Jimmy Butler, he can't alpha dog
Speaker 2: Nikola Jokic like that. That's just not going to happen.
Speaker 2: I mean, heck, you might not even be able to
Speaker 2: do that to Jamal Murray, who's one of the biggest
Speaker 2: irrational confidence guys that we have in the league, although
Speaker 2: he's backing it up.
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