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Speaker 1: Hey, there are folks. It is Wednesday, December seventeenth. A

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Speaker 1: four year old dead, a forty year old dead. Their

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Speaker 1: deaths were thirteen years apart, but their deaths have now

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Speaker 1: been brought together in a bizarre, twisted, winding murder investigation

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Speaker 1: involving was described as a religious cult in California. And

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Speaker 1: with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.

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Speaker 1: I try my best there to build this story where

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Speaker 1: with the best I could at the top. But that's

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Speaker 1: the way. It is, a winding, bizarre, strange story involving

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Speaker 1: two different deaths now two different homicides, and a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of people involved now in being charged.

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Speaker 2: With murder and a missing man still a former member

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Speaker 2: who they believe may also have been murdered. So there

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Speaker 2: is still some intrigue into what happened to a forty

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Speaker 2: one year old in that cult.

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Speaker 1: And we're talking about a group I had no idea about.

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Speaker 1: In fact, the city where they're based out there him

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Speaker 1: it and what is it called? Out there in California.

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Speaker 1: It's situated kind of between San Diego and La but

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Speaker 1: a little more inland. I didn't know it.

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Speaker 3: No man's land basically, but thing called.

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Speaker 1: His Way spirit Led Assemblies.

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Speaker 2: Correct, right, And there's a reason why we haven't heard

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Speaker 2: of it because even police described this as a secretive

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Speaker 2: California religious group. And when you hear from some former members,

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Speaker 2: they didn't want anyone to know about them, and they

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Speaker 2: didn't want anyone to leave. And if you tried to, well,

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Speaker 2: there were two missing men.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that's possibly why we now have some answers

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Speaker 1: and there might be some consequences for folks because some

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Speaker 1: folks finally got out and started talking. One of these

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Speaker 1: murders we're talking about. Yes, police are calling it the

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Speaker 1: murder of a four year old boy. This was back

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Speaker 1: in twenty ten. They investigated at the time and could

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Speaker 1: not bring charges until now. And this is all tied

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Speaker 1: to another murder investigation. So this let's just start at

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Speaker 1: the top here. His Way spirit Led Assemblies again. This

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Speaker 1: religious group is what they call themselves. What is the

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Speaker 1: word the prosecutor You didn't say cult, He.

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Speaker 3: Called him a highly secretive He said control.

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Speaker 2: Oh, a high control control group, a cult like high

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Speaker 2: control group is how they described it. But six members

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Speaker 2: were arrested, four of them charged with murder and two

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Speaker 2: of them charged with multiple murders.

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Speaker 1: So that's the part of this heart six arrests. Not

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Speaker 1: everybody's involved in the murder. So let's take out some

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Speaker 1: of the people who are involved in that. That's just

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Speaker 1: weapons charge. Yes, okay, we'll get rid of them. It's

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Speaker 1: crazy to think that. But oh, they don't rise to

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Speaker 1: the level. What kind of in this case is these

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Speaker 1: other four rise to the level? And we're talking about

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Speaker 1: four people charged with two murders, one of them Tim Thomas.

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Speaker 1: Let's start there, the four year old.

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Speaker 3: Boy, Timothy Thomas.

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Speaker 2: So Kat Martin, who is considered the prophetess of this group,

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Speaker 2: and her husband, Darryl Music Martin are charged along with

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Speaker 2: the boy's father, Andre Thomas, who was also a member

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Speaker 2: of this religious organization.

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Speaker 3: So the three of them are charged with the murder

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Speaker 3: of four year old Timothy Thomas.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now, the other victim, Gannum is that Emilio forty

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Speaker 1: years old now murdered as well. But he's been missing,

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Speaker 1: ain't nobody's seen him or heard from him since twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Three, correct, And they found out they found his burned

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Speaker 2: out truck in the Mojave Desert and they found evidence

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Speaker 2: of murder by the way they've never found his body,

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Speaker 2: but they were finally able to get enough evidence from

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Speaker 2: that burned out truck to be able to charge. Now

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Speaker 2: two of the defendants. That's Kat Martin and her husband,

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Speaker 2: Darryl Music Martin, along with Rudy Moreno, who is another

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Speaker 2: member with his murder.

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Speaker 1: Do I have ryth ough Darryl is only facing chargers

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Speaker 1: in the Ganni murder and not the boys murder? Do

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Speaker 1: I have that right?

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Speaker 3: I actually saw.

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Speaker 2: It's confusing, but I saw two different, uh, two different

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Speaker 2: news reports that had Darrell charged with both of the

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Speaker 2: murders and then had him charged with only one of

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Speaker 2: the murders. But there was a local California NBC report

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Speaker 2: who said that he was charged in both of them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so this is what we're talking so we only

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Speaker 1: have Do I have it right that in two charged

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Speaker 1: in Gannum's murder, three charged in Ganham's murder? Then yes, right,

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, this is what we're talking about, folks

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Speaker 1: all over the place. I guess it will certainly stand

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Speaker 1: out robes when we're talking about the four year old boy,

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Speaker 1: Tim Thomas twenty ten, the way they describe how he

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Speaker 1: went about how he died and it was completely on.

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Speaker 1: It didn't have to happen.

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Speaker 2: It's appalling actually, so I know you won't be surprised

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Speaker 2: to hear that I had appendicitis and had to have

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Speaker 2: my appendix removed. But if you do not have your

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Speaker 2: appendix removed, if you do not get medical attention, it's absolute, painful, agonizing,

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Speaker 2: horrific death. And they would not and did not seek

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Speaker 2: medical attention from him and his brother at the time.

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Speaker 2: He spoke to ABC News and said his brother was

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Speaker 2: writhing in pain, had fevers, was vomiting blood, was begging

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Speaker 2: for help, and they just said the Lord will save

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Speaker 2: him if he chooses, and let him die.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a four year old who complained, who was in pain.

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Speaker 1: You're so you're talking about a kid who died through

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Speaker 1: days of agonizing pain.

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Speaker 3: It was torture and her for a kid for a week,

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Speaker 3: it was horrifical.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the bizarre things. So why is he in

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Speaker 1: their care? Yes, the dad had become a part of

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Speaker 1: this religious group and they separated the families as you

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Speaker 1: were saying there, but he was placed in the care

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Speaker 1: of these leaders of this church in their home. Essentially.

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand, like why they had to be separated.

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Speaker 2: In all this, the brothers said, this is very much

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Speaker 2: like it reminds me of I was out there with

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Speaker 2: the FLDS. They in order to continue to lead and

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Speaker 2: be powerful, they actually separate families so they don't let

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Speaker 2: children live with their parents. They control everyone, and they

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Speaker 2: controlled the children especially. And so yes, Kat Martin and

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Speaker 2: Daryl Martin were the leaders, the husband and wife team,

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Speaker 2: and they let this sweet little boy die in horrific

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Speaker 2: pain when he absolutely could be saved.

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Speaker 1: So this is in twenty ten. You move forward now, folks.

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Speaker 1: Emilio Gainum Ghanam Monk keep Saint wrong. Ghanam forty years old.

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Speaker 1: He went missing in twenty twenty three. He had left

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Speaker 1: the church as well. He had moved elsewhere, gone off

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Speaker 1: to Tennessee somewhere, came back for a visit, met with

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Speaker 1: somebody from the church, and he ain't been seen since

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three. His truck was found in the desert,

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Speaker 1: burned out in twenty twenty five this year, and police

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Speaker 1: say they saw evidence of a crime, a homicide in

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Speaker 1: that truck. That got them going on that case. But

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Speaker 1: it also got them looking at this death that this

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Speaker 1: boy once again, and they say yes. After years, some

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Speaker 1: more people were willing to talk.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: So this has been such a secretive society that now

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Speaker 2: that some members were able to and they say escape

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the night, those members and some

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Speaker 2: of them are still afraid to speak and give their names.

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Speaker 2: That's how afraid they were for their own safety. But

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Speaker 2: they finally started speaking to police. They finally were able

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Speaker 2: to put things together. And when it comes to Ganham,

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Speaker 2: he apparently he met a member in Starbucks and he

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Speaker 2: told this member that he was going to help a

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Speaker 2: high ranking member escape that this high ranking member said,

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Speaker 2: I want to get out. You were able to do it,

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Speaker 2: can you help me? But this member says he thinks

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Speaker 2: it was all a ruse to lure him back and

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Speaker 2: to get rid of him because he left and they

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Speaker 2: were saying that his new business was competing with their

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Speaker 2: business and they wanted him dead. It's some really scary

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Speaker 2: mob like mentality if that's exactly what happened. But they

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Speaker 2: purposely targeted him, according to this member, and got rid

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Speaker 2: of him.

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Speaker 1: So missing hasn't been seen, and we have another missing

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Speaker 1: hasn't been seen, and he is This other one is

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Speaker 1: the brother of someone also now facing charges. Again, folks,

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Speaker 1: we're trying to keep up ourselves and hope you're keeping up.

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Speaker 1: But this is a mess out there in California.

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Speaker 3: With this, it really is.

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Speaker 2: So they are looking for yes Moreno, he's forty one

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Speaker 2: years old. He hasn't been seen since twenty nineteen, not

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Speaker 2: a trace of him. And by the way, we mentioned

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Speaker 2: Gannum's body has never been found either.

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Speaker 3: So this is mysterious.

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Speaker 2: This is concerning, And certainly now this investigation has broken

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Speaker 2: wide open and they're going to be looking into all

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Speaker 2: of that. But when you start reading about what former

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Speaker 2: members are saying went on and has been going on

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Speaker 2: inside that cult for the past several decades, it is bizarre.

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Speaker 2: It is concerning, and there are still plenty of active

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Speaker 2: members living out there in this very desolate area of California,

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Speaker 2: continuing on in this cult like religion.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen any idn't any indications how large the

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Speaker 1: group is, how many.

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Speaker 2: I didn't get a sense of it, but they said

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Speaker 2: that this is this is much like the FLDS. They

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Speaker 2: have construction companies, they have pest control companies, and they

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Speaker 2: put all of these folks to work and send them

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Speaker 2: out and they said that they're earning about two million

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Speaker 2: dollars a year and they're able to do this all

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Speaker 2: tax free because you see, it's a religion, it's a church,

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Speaker 2: and so any money that these members make they give

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Speaker 2: back to the church, which is basically these leaders.

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Speaker 3: And they've been raking it in.

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Speaker 2: So it's big enough where they're generating two million dollars

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Speaker 2: of tax free income each year. So they say that

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Speaker 2: the motive for most of this has been greed in power,

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Speaker 2: which is isn't that the case for most of the world.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god? And look some of the folks who

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Speaker 1: we have gotten now you mentioned Tim Thomas's brother talked

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Speaker 1: about what they went through. But some of the reports

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Speaker 1: that we get out of what happened, and I guess

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Speaker 1: it's typical stuff that we have seen over the years

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Speaker 1: in high profile cases about cults. They've been quite frankly

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Speaker 1: in the mainstream in a lot of ways. Going back

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Speaker 1: to Waco, right, that's true. We have some sense of

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Speaker 1: understand I say, Waco, you can go back to Jonestown.

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Speaker 1: Even so, it's we see some of it, but it's

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Speaker 1: still always it's bizarre and it's disturbing to hear. And

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Speaker 1: now When you talk about a four year old dead

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Speaker 1: and you talk about a group that people knew exactly

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Speaker 1: what happened to him, and for fifteen years nobody would speak,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty damn secret.

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Speaker 2: That speaks to the power of what these folks said.

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Speaker 2: So they say cat the folks who have gotten out.

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Speaker 2: Anthony Durand gave a fascinating interview to CBS News. He

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Speaker 2: got out of the or, he escaped, but his family

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Speaker 2: is still there. He said he hasn't spoken to his

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Speaker 2: mom in years. He told her that he and his

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Speaker 2: wife had a baby. He was able to get word

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Speaker 2: to her and she said, I don't want anything to

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Speaker 2: do with you and that demon child like.

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Speaker 3: They actually look.

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Speaker 2: People are looking for purpose, they're looking for a higher power.

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Speaker 2: They're looking for something to belong to, and this is

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Speaker 2: unfortunately they pray on folks who are looking for that

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Speaker 2: sense of belonging.

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Speaker 3: But they say cat.

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Speaker 2: The woman who has now been charged with two murders

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Speaker 2: was the prophetess.

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Speaker 3: She would speak in tongues.

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Speaker 2: They said, she would speak with a British accent when

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Speaker 2: she was prophetizing, and basically they said she was God.

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Speaker 2: Whatever she said went and nobody questioned it. But they

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Speaker 2: said she would shake and convulse, open her eyes really wide,

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Speaker 2: and start talking in tongues. So it's kind of what

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Speaker 2: we see in the movies depicted was actually and has

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Speaker 2: been happening there in California for decades.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say this was also interesting to me.

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Speaker 2: Members of the church were told not to read the Bible,

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Speaker 2: and so they said, the Bible is not what you

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Speaker 2: should be basing this on. But church leaders what they said, Kat,

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Speaker 2: what Kat said, what her husband said, and so they

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Speaker 2: took the place of the Bible for these folks.

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Speaker 1: That's when you put it that way, took the place

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Speaker 1: of the Bible. That's pretty significant power. But stay here, folks,

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Speaker 1: who mentioned that Tim Thomas, several people are facing charges

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Speaker 1: in their little four year old boy's death, among them

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Speaker 1: his dad, who is a former member. However, there are

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Speaker 1: some speaking strongly against the idea of the father actually

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Speaker 1: being responsible, saying he shouldn't be facing any charges at all.

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Speaker 1: We'll explains to her, all right, folks, We continue here

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Speaker 1: on Amy and TJ with his bizarre story of what,

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Speaker 1: by all accounts is described as a cult out in California.

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Speaker 1: His way spirit led assemblies where Several members are now

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Speaker 1: facing murder charges and two separate murders, one of them

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Speaker 1: for a four year old boy who died in twenty

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Speaker 1: ten after he didn't get medical treetment for appendicitis Rope.

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Speaker 1: We talked about this one in particular. It's just a shame.

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Speaker 1: He didn't have to die appendicy He just suffered. Four

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Speaker 1: year old boy, think about it, just suffered. Well, he

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Speaker 1: was there with his brother who was Certainly they're older now,

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Speaker 1: and you talk about the interview they gave. Who's responsible.

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Speaker 1: The dad is facing charges, yes, but he shouldn't be.

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Speaker 2: Some will tell you his own son says he shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be because he said he was under the power of

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Speaker 2: these two cult leaders, just like everybody else, and no

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Speaker 2: one questioned what they said. So if they said Tim

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Speaker 2: is not getting medical attention, and by the way, no

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Speaker 2: one could see the doctor. They didn't allow anyone to

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Speaker 2: get help for anything. So they said that they weren't

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Speaker 2: allowed to seek medical attention, and that meant that they

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Speaker 2: didn't have enough faith in God. So it was very

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Speaker 2: much God's ability, so that if you wanted to seek

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Speaker 2: medical attention, that meant that you were not putting your

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Speaker 2: faith in God, your faith in God. God should be

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Speaker 2: able to heal you. And if God wants to heal you,

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Speaker 2: he'll heal you. And if he doesn't, you'll die. And

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Speaker 2: that's part of their culture. So yes, the father was

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Speaker 2: swept up in this ideology, and certainly the power structure

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Speaker 2: that was in place in this cult would never have

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Speaker 2: allowed him to go against what this couple at the

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Speaker 2: top said.

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Speaker 1: You just made me think, what if you get life

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Speaker 1: saving treatment? Right? What if you actually get something treatment,

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Speaker 1: medical treatment to save your life. Does that mean then

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Speaker 1: that you went against God's wishes? Yes, because God wanted

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Speaker 1: you to die, and you went against the plan.

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Speaker 2: According to this couple, and they prayed. But look, look,

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Speaker 2: I'm telling you. I was in the hospital for my appendicizes.

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Speaker 2: It took them a while to figure out what was

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Speaker 2: going on. I was in so much pain, babe, I

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Speaker 2: had morphine drips, I was delirious with a fever. I was.

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Speaker 3: I actually came close to death because they couldn't figure

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Speaker 3: it out.

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Speaker 2: I have a little feeling, or a little inkling of

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Speaker 2: what this poor little boy went through and I suffered

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Speaker 2: with morphine. It actually makes me want to sob to

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Speaker 2: think about this little boy not having any sort of

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Speaker 2: intervention or any help.

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Speaker 3: That is one of the most painful things.

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Speaker 2: To go through sepsis days steps is it takes that

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Speaker 2: long for the for the It's basically it's a bacterial infection,

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Speaker 2: and when your appendix bursts, it sends bacteria all through

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Speaker 2: in your body, like starts to shut down organ by organ.

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Speaker 3: It is horrifically painful.

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Speaker 1: It is.

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Speaker 3: It's an I cannot even imagine.

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Speaker 1: Took him seven days to die. They said, yea, he

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Speaker 1: from the moment he complained seven days he was he

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Speaker 1: was dead seven days later, and he could one hospital,

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Speaker 1: visit and in anywhere in those seven days, and we

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Speaker 1: had a different outcome. So that's why these folks are

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Speaker 1: now facing charges. This is I mean, who knows how

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Speaker 1: this case is going to go, but it's bizarre. I

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Speaker 1: think this group is going to be under scrutiny a

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Speaker 1: lot more attention. How much can you do if they're

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Speaker 1: that secretive. I don't know, but this is a damn

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Speaker 1: shame of fifteen years to get this kid's some justice

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Speaker 1: potentially here. I don't know how in a case you

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Speaker 1: can make an argument that this is our religious belief.

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Speaker 1: I mean, people have these right, But where's the line

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Speaker 1: legally we should bring somebody in. Where's the line legally

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Speaker 1: between your religious beliefs and child and endangerment, child cruelty? Right?

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Speaker 1: You can't say yes, pray it.

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Speaker 2: Away when a life can be saved by modern medicine

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Speaker 2: and you don't allow someone who is underage to receive that.

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Speaker 1: Do you have the right based on your religious beliefs.

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Speaker 3: You do not have the right to harm someone based

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Speaker 3: on your religious beliefs.

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Speaker 2: And again the argument in court will be why non

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Speaker 2: action is still harm? We prayed if you're in action

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Speaker 2: led to the death of someone or the harm. Religious

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Speaker 2: beliefs are not a defense when it comes to that.

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Speaker 2: And so this is sad, and you know these leaders

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Speaker 2: when you start to hear these accounts making and we've

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Speaker 2: heard this similarly in other cult like organizations. But you

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Speaker 2: have to cut off anyone who isn't part of the church.

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Speaker 2: So if you leave, if that father left, his children

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Speaker 2: would have had to have stayed with him them, Like

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Speaker 2: you can't bring your family or your friends with you,

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Speaker 2: and you are cut off and you are alone, and

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Speaker 2: you have to completely lose touch with anyone who is

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Speaker 2: still inside that compound. So you think about that father,

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Speaker 2: perhaps all of these thoughts were swirling in his head

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Speaker 2: that he couldn't take his kids with him, or that

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Speaker 2: he just didn't think he was allowed. He might have

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Speaker 2: thought God was going to punish him. Who knows what

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Speaker 2: he believed based on these two people who were controlling

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Speaker 2: all of the folks inside this cult.

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Speaker 1: It's fascinating, sure, in a lot of ways, but it

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Speaker 1: is sad to think of what happened to this little boy,

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Speaker 1: also that forty year old man, also the other man

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Speaker 1: who is now missing as well. But we will stay

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Speaker 1: on top of this. Reminders always top right corner of

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Speaker 1: that Apple podcast app where you see our show, little

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Speaker 1: button says follow click that and you can get our

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Speaker 1: updates coming to you all the time. And with that,

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Speaker 1: we always appreciate you spending some time with us on TJ.

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Speaker 1: Holmes on behalf of Amy. Robert will talk to your sir,