1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Previously on our coverage of the wrongful conviction of Leonard Peltier, 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: Federal prosecutors used false evidence to extradite Leonard Peltier from 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: Canada to the United States, where his code efendants had 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: just been acquitted on the grounds of self defense for 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: the June nineteen seventy five fatal shooting deaths of two 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: FBI agents on the Pine Ridge Reservation. So in preparation 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: for Leonard's trial, they traded a premeditated ambush narrative for 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: one claiming that after the agents pursued Leonard onto Jumping 9 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: Bull Ranch to serve a warrant, a firefight had ensued, 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: and when the agents were wounded, the beds claimed that 11 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: Leonard approached them with an AR fifteen, which ejected a 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: shell casing into the agent's trunk as he executed them 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: in cold blood, but hidden evidence said otherwise, this is 14 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: wrongful conviction. You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen 15 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 16 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for 17 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction 18 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: for the final episode in our coverage of Leonard Peltier, 19 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: where once again I'm joined by you know him and 20 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: you love him, Ben Bolin from the podcast Stuff They 21 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: Don't Want You to Know. 22 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,559 Speaker 2: Thank you, Jason. We'll pick up on this story where 23 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 2: we left off when the federal prosecutors have been granted 24 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: a change of venue from Cedar Rapids, Iowa to Fargo, 25 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 2: North Dakota, where Judge Paul Benson cited mental incompetence when 26 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: Barry Myrtle Poor Bear from testifying about how FBI agents 27 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 2: coerced her into swearing falsely in three affidavits to obtain 28 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: Leonard's extradition from Canada. 29 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: It certainly looks like she was just of no use 30 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: to them anymore for the purposes of Leonard's trial in 31 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: March nineteen seventy seven, where the Beds once again were 32 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: up to their same dirty tricks trying to influence the jury. 33 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 3: Because the jurors were sequestered during Lennon's trial for their 34 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 3: own safety, they were under twenty four hour US Marshall protection. 35 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 3: And what we didn't know was that they were transported 36 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 3: to the courtroom from their hotel, back to their hotel 37 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 3: for lunch, et cetera, back and forth the end of 38 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 3: the day, and the windows of this bus were taped 39 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 3: up because they were told that this would prevent them 40 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 3: from being. 41 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 4: Shot at by snipers. Wow, and there were sniper teams 42 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 4: very visible on the roof. 43 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: Those snipers were FBI agents, but the alleged threat was 44 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 2: from AIM and their supporters. 45 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: The way the jurors came out of the building, the 46 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 3: bus was parked about fifteen feet from the entrance. The 47 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 3: door bursts open, a team of marshalls come and fan out, 48 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 3: and then they ushered these jurors in fast as they 49 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 3: can so they don't get shot between the building and 50 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 3: the bus. You do this four times a day for 51 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 3: six weeks, even have an impression. 52 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: That's like psychological warfare. 53 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 3: It was all about creating a climate of fear and terror. 54 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 3: They did it in the courtroom. We had twenty five 55 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 3: marshalls in the courtroom at all times. He had agents 56 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,399 Speaker 3: sitting behind us with submachine guns and cases. 57 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: In addition to the terror tactics, the prosecution team of 58 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: Lynn Crooks, Evan Holtman and Robert Sikma were able to 59 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: take the self defense claim off the table with the 60 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: execution narrative, which in turn barred witness testimony about the 61 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: Goon Squad's betterally funded terror campaign that made self defense 62 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: in gun battle the norm on Pine Ridge. And now 63 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: but Jimmy Eagle also out of the picture. They needed 64 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: witnesses to place Leonard in the car allegedly being chased 65 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: by the agents. 66 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 3: And suddenly a young man, Michael Anderson, who is fifteen 67 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 3: years old at the time, in every statement he had 68 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: given previously said he was in the camp when the 69 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 3: firefight started, suddenly was quarter mile away and on the 70 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 3: roof of one of the houses and watched a vehicle 71 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: drive in, chased by the two agents. And it wasn't 72 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 3: a red pickup like the agents described, but it was 73 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 3: a red and white van like they found up in 74 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 3: the camp and had been seen up by the houses 75 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 3: at one point. So Mike's telling the story and he 76 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 3: describes it as the agents following an orange pickup. And 77 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 3: the prosecutor says, now, when you say orange pickup, do 78 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 3: you mean a red and white van? 79 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: And he said yes, that day the agents had clearly 80 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: radioed in describing a red pickup like the one that 81 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: Jimmy Eagle drove. But since the charges against Jimmy had 82 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: been dropped the narrative became Leonard in his red and 83 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 2: white van. Anderson also said that he'd come running back 84 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 2: to the campground to grab a rifle and saw Leonard 85 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 2: with an AR fifteen. On cross examination, Mike Anderson admitted 86 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 2: that his charges relating to the exploding car in Wichita 87 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 2: were dropped in a exchange for this testimony. In a 88 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: similar vein Wilford, Draper admitted that he'd been threatened with 89 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: indictment for the murder himself, so he agreed to testify 90 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 2: that the group had knowledge of the FBI agent's cars 91 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 2: on the day prior and that he had seen Leonard 92 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: with an AR fifteen. Norman Brown flat out refused to 93 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 2: repeat his testimony from the Butler Robadu trial that he'd 94 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: seen the Trio near the agent's car. He said, quote, 95 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: it was the agents who said that I saw them 96 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 2: end quote, and he added that he too have been 97 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 2: threatened with the indictment. 98 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 5: Yes, the witnesses testified that their family was threatened, their 99 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 5: mothers are threatened, and they were threatened of course, and 100 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 5: tried to rechat any kind of statement that they were 101 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 5: forced to make before. So it was no evidence. Nobody 102 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 5: said I was shooting at anybody or killing anybody. 103 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: No one witnessed anyone allegedly performing this execution on these 104 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: two agents. And the medical evidence was that the agents 105 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: were shot by a high velocity rifle at close range, 106 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: and that Agent Williams had a defensive wound on his 107 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: right hand, and that the gun must have been pressed 108 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: against it before firing through his hand and his head. 109 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: But strangely, there was no mention whatsoever of the burn 110 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: wounds that are associated with close range gunshots. I'm gonna 111 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: pause on that for a second. And both bodies, by 112 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,559 Speaker 1: the way, were discovered face down, which does not fit 113 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: the scenario they described. But the theory was accepted at 114 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: face value. And then came the ballistics. 115 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 6: Essentially, it boiled down the two things. Number One, there 116 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 6: was one and only one AR fifteen that was present 117 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 6: at the Jumping bull compound at that time according to 118 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 6: the witness testimony, and that Peltier had been seen with 119 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 6: an AR fifteen, and therefore the wichita Ar fifteen was 120 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 6: Leonard Peltier's AR fifteen. Now, look, there a few problems 121 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 6: with that. Number One is there's no proof that the 122 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 6: wichita AR fifteen found in the car months later was 123 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 6: ever at the Jumping Bull compound. And more important, there 124 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 6: was evidence that the government was aware of that there 125 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 6: were numerous Ar fifteens present at that time that were 126 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 6: firing bullets. Because they found other shellcasings at the scene, 127 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 6: and they found other bullets at the scene, that information 128 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 6: was suppressed. The second thing that was crucial was that 129 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 6: the very firearms expert who testified for the government had 130 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 6: sent a teletype while the investigation was still going on, 131 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 6: saying that the shellcasing that was found in the agent's 132 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 6: car did not match the wichita Ar fifteen. It was 133 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 6: from a different gun. And this was based on a 134 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 6: firing pin test. 135 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: If you recall from Part two of our coverage, we 136 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 2: discussed the mechanics of a semi automatic weapon and how 137 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: although this type of analysis is best suited for excluding 138 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: weapons rather than matchmaking, a firing pin test is the 139 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 2: most reliable for identifying an individual weapon, while an extractor 140 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: mark can merely identify things like make or model. The 141 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: FBI firearm analyst Evan Hodge testified that the casing had 142 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: been loaded and extracted from the wichita Ar fifteen. This 143 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: is why it was so important for both There to 144 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 2: have been only one AR fifteen and that it be 145 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 2: placed in Leonard's possession. However, there were other AR fifteens, 146 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:55,959 Speaker 2: and when they'd received the fire damaged AR fifteen from Wichita, 147 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 2: the bolt mechanism was removed and was placed in a 148 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 2: different AR fifteen. According to an October nineteen seventy five teletype, 149 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 2: a firing pin test of that Wichita AR fifteen was 150 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 2: negative for a match with the casing from Agent Cohler's trunk. 151 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 6: That was never given over to the defense. Had those 152 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 6: two pieces of information been given to the defense, obviously 153 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 6: the defense would have been in a position to undermine 154 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 6: the entire case against Leonard Peltier, and make no mistake 155 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 6: about it. The case was presented as Leonard Peltier being 156 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 6: the person wielding the Wichita AR fifteen who walked up 157 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 6: to both agents as they lay wounded and executed them 158 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 6: both with one shell casing being discarded into the agent's car. 159 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 6: That was the theory of the trial. That was what 160 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 6: the jury believed, and that's how the conviction arose. 161 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 5: A prosecutor, he made a stake at the closing arguments 162 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 5: that I was a cold bloody killer executioner and was effective, 163 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 5: I guess. 164 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: They added that the witnesses who undermined their own testimony 165 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: perhaps should have been tried to, calling aim a blood 166 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: crazed bunch, and however undermined that testimony, was it aligned 167 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: with what appeared to be scientific evidence related to this 168 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: one shell casing that may or may not have been 169 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: ejected into this agent's trunk. When you think about it, 170 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: with all of the other lies, it's hard to know 171 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: whether to believe this or any of this so called evidence. 172 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: But nonetheless, on the fateful day of April eighteenth, nineteen 173 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: seventy seven, Leonard Peltier was convicted on two counts a 174 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: first degree murder. 175 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 5: The clerk of the court told us, Judge Benson's not 176 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 5: going to give you no more than thirty years. I 177 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 5: would get out in fifteen. I take some of that, 178 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 5: but I was so fucking upset that I wrote a 179 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,599 Speaker 5: very strong anti government statement. I condemned the court, I 180 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 5: condemned a judge and the whole system with such disregard 181 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 5: for the constitution, attempts at exterminating us. And I read 182 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 5: that just before he sentenced me, and he gave me 183 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 5: two life sentences. So if I had to keep my 184 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 5: mouth shut. I probably would have been out after fifteen years, 185 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 5: but I was just so fucking angry that I just 186 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 5: couldn't control myself. Right after I was convicted, the elders 187 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 5: came up to the railing there and said, we want 188 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 5: you to know that we will fight for you for 189 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 5: the rest of our lives if you're still in prison, 190 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 5: and our children will fight for you for the rest 191 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 5: of their lives, and if you're still in there, our 192 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 5: grandkids will fight for you. They sent me to marry 193 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 5: in Illinois's the harshest president I had at that time. 194 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 5: It took the place of Alcatraz. They put me in 195 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 5: a hole there and so that they can find it. 196 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 5: I went to a hearing about thirty days later, and 197 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 5: the captain there sentenced me to a century deprivation cell indefinitely. 198 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 5: It's complete darkness. They only got one blanket to sleep on, 199 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 5: and the only time you get light is when they 200 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 5: opened the food slot. People come out of their completely nuts. 201 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 5: Some people never come out of there. I was supposed 202 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 5: to die in her I said a lot of prayers 203 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 5: to Uncle Tunka, get your man to do that's the 204 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 5: great spirit, and I just made my mind up you 205 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 5: ain't going to break me. But my lawyers and other 206 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 5: people were fighting. They finally got a hearing in the 207 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 5: Supreme Court said you cannot re sentence people to these 208 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 5: type of cells he's been setting and beside that that 209 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 5: soll you got there is illegal. 210 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 2: At this point, Leonard's appeals had been picked up by 211 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 2: Dino and Bob's attorney, William Kuntzler, and this small victory 212 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: over cruel and unusual punishment came along with the denial 213 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 2: of his direct appeal, at which time Leonard was transferred 214 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 2: to another facility, Lompoc. 215 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 5: And when I got there, I couldn't believe it. I mean, 216 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 5: this was so. 217 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: Many holes, holes in the wall. 218 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 2: No, I mean to escape, like the fencing and lower security. 219 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 5: And some of the towers wasn't occupied, and I was 220 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 5: looking around here. I said, wow. So first opportunity I got, 221 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 5: we went out during the night, made it across the 222 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 5: fence and they were shooting at us by then, and 223 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 5: Dallas Thundershield had his arms up surrendering and they shot 224 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 5: him in the back. I was able to escape, and 225 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 5: I was gone five days out in the desert. 226 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,479 Speaker 2: And made it to Santa Maria California. 227 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 5: Yes, miles from the prison. I was heading from Mexico. 228 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 5: I was going out there to Dickaraka and I was 229 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 5: sitting under this tree, and I haven't looked down to 230 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 5: the lower grounds, and I seen this garden and I thought, gee, 231 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 5: that it would be nice to sit up here and 232 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 5: eat the melon or whatever else I could do. So 233 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 5: I go down to this garden and all sudden, this 234 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 5: guy starts shooting at me. I put my arms up. 235 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 5: He got close enough to me where I snatched the 236 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 5: gun out of his hand, and then he said, I 237 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 5: suppose you're going to kill me now. And I looked 238 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 5: at him. I said, what the fuck you tried to 239 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 5: kill me, fucking asshole, excuse my language. But he got 240 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 5: all panicky now he was crying and everything, and no, 241 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 5: I wasn't just trying to chase you out of my garden. 242 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 5: And I said, you're that and I just said I 243 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 5: can't do this. And I told him, I said, well, 244 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 5: don't be running calling the cops. Let me get away 245 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 5: from here, okay, okay, but call the cops soon as 246 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,239 Speaker 5: he could. I guess they could come all from all directions. 247 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 5: When they had me on the ground. This deputy sheriff 248 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 5: was putting on handcuffs. I mean, the FBI agent came 249 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 5: and put that barrel right here, and he said, your 250 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 5: son him a bit. You killed two of my friends. 251 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 5: I'm gonna blow your fucking brains up. And I just 252 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 5: looked at him as well, do it, fucking brave, asked 253 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 5: ole motherfucker. Now that I'm handcuffed and everything, I said, 254 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 5: do it shoot And the deputy sheriff we started shaking 255 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 5: on my back and he said, I'm not going to 256 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 5: be part of no killing. So they must have been 257 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 5: talking about it to see me kill me. 258 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: Leonard got seven more years for the escape and weapons possession. 259 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: By this time, every new class of FBI agents was 260 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: being indoctrinated with the image of Leonard Peltier as their boogeyman. 261 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: And meanwhile, in Canada, this a listener general, a guy 262 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: named Warren Almond, began to make noise about how the 263 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: FBI and prosecutors had presented Myrtle Forbear's perjured Affidavid's at 264 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: Leonard's extradition. 265 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 5: Hearing the Native people in Canada forced him to do 266 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 5: an investigation on the extradition. Then they sealed it for 267 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 5: forty years. Warren Allman was very upset about it. He 268 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 5: took him another year to get in there and read 269 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 5: this investigation report, and he found a letter in there 270 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 5: from the Justice Department here in the United States that said, 271 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 5: if you put in this investigation and release it, we 272 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 5: would hold the fifty five million dollars that we're going 273 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 5: to send you to the Joint Agricultural Laboratory. 274 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: Well, with Warren Allman's efforts, newtered Leonardstein also exhausted the 275 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 2: Myrtle poor Bear evidence. 276 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 5: In post conviction on the Myrtle porbar thing, the judge 277 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 5: asked Evan Haltman, we don't understand how anyone could continue 278 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 5: to extract information from this witness, because it's quite obvious 279 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 5: she was not a real witness. So Haltman said, your Honor, 280 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 5: I had nothing to do with her, and when I 281 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 5: read her AFFI David, I knew there was not once 282 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 5: entil of truth. A few years later we find a 283 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 5: document he had flew into Rapid City, and prosecutor that 284 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 5: was representing the United States and Canada flew in from 285 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 5: Canada and they wrote her third affidavit. 286 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 2: So Evan Holtman's deception was once again not discovered until 287 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 2: it was too late. And around this time is when 288 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: Ron Kobe got involved. 289 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 6: When I was a law student way back in nineteen 290 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 6: eighty two, I started interning for William Kunstler, and at 291 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 6: that point he was very deeply involved in trying to 292 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 6: secure a new trial for Leonard Peltier, and so I 293 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 6: started working on that case almost immediately and continued when 294 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 6: I was finally admitted to the bar in nineteen eighty four. 295 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 6: Kunstler had obtained new information that he believed was the 296 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 6: key to getting Leonard a new trial. 297 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 3: So here we had ballistics evidence I mentioned before the 298 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 3: agent gets on the stand as well. We can't definitively 299 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 3: do a firing pin test, but we can do an 300 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 3: extractor mark test, and in fact there's a match. And 301 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 3: for lawyers, if you see a word in a government 302 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 3: document that refers to another document, you got to go 303 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 3: after it. 304 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 6: I think it was a freedom of information. After request, 305 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:24,959 Speaker 6: Kunstler learned of the existence of this teletype from Agent Hodge, 306 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 6: which had been suppressed. 307 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 3: We asked for two October second teletypes that we had 308 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 3: not gotten. Not only could that damaged AR fifteen from Kansas, 309 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 3: at least the one that they used to test could 310 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 3: produce a firing pin test, but those teletypes revealed that 311 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 3: there was no match whatsoever whatsoever. 312 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: In previous episodes, we've covered the FBI Crime Lab and 313 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: the culture of misconduct, false testimony, and manipulating evidence that 314 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: was exposed in the mid nineties by a whistleblower named 315 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: Frederick Whitehurst, who came forward at great personal and professional risk. 316 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: We're going to link to our coverage of Elmer Daniels, 317 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 1: who was interviewed by fellow Xandery death Row Exunery by 318 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: the way, John Huffington, both of whom had been victims 319 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: of false testimony from the FBI Prime Lab, and it 320 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: appears that this culture of misconduct was present during Leonard's trial, 321 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,479 Speaker 1: as Evan Hodge testified that his test casings and the 322 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: casing from Kohler's trunk were loaded and unloaded from that 323 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: particular rifle, while this October nineteen seventy five firing pin 324 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: test said otherwise. 325 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 6: And based on that, I filed emotion for a new trial. 326 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 6: There was a very extensive evidentiary hearing where agent Evan 327 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 6: Hodge tried to say he didn't mean to suggest that 328 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 6: he was talking about the shellcasing found in the agent's car. 329 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 6: He was testing other shellcasings, and it's like, really the 330 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 6: most important piece of evidence in the case. And you 331 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 6: send a teletype about other shellcasings belonging to other ar fifteens, 332 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 6: which the FBI claimed weren't even at the scene. Made 333 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 6: no sense, clearly a lie. But something very interesting happened 334 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 6: in the course of the argument on that appeal. The 335 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 6: government was not convinced they were going to win. The 336 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 6: Eighth Circuit was skeptical, or at least made skeptical sounds, 337 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 6: and so during oral argument the government said, look, we 338 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 6: may not be able to prove that in fact, it 339 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 6: was Peltier who fired the fatal bullets at close range. 340 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 5: He said, your honor, I want you to know the 341 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 5: government doesn't know who the shooter is nor what participation 342 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 5: Leonard Peltier may have had in it. 343 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 4: The government switched from Leonard doing it to no, no, no, 344 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 4: Leonard was just a nat in. 345 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:05,479 Speaker 6: A better That was an amazing concession, because for over 346 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 6: a decade the government and the FBI had been relentlessly 347 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 6: saying that Leonard Peltier walked up to two wounded agents 348 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 6: executed them at point blank range and suddenly the government saying, well, okay, 349 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 6: maybe not, but he was shooting at them. Nonetheless, the 350 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 6: judge denied the motion, and on appeal the Eighth Circuit 351 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 6: said it would possibly have helped Peltier's defense to have 352 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,719 Speaker 6: this teletype. It would have helped impeach the agent. It 353 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 6: would have helped you establish that there were other ar 354 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 6: fifteens at the scene. But we're not convinced under the 355 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 6: Brady standard that this was sufficiently material to create a 356 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 6: reasonable possibility that a jury would have come to a 357 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 6: different conclusion had they heard this evidence. 358 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: In what Okay, So this Brady violation destroys the alleged 359 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: evidence that Leonard had executed two wounded FBI agents in 360 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: cold blood, leaving him, as it was now framed, as 361 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: an alleged aider and a better. 362 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 3: And that's where then it became an issue because wait 363 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 3: a minute, if he was just an aider and a better, 364 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 3: then how could the judge deny him the same defense 365 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 3: that Daryl Butler and Bob Robberty you had where they 366 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 3: were able to show that they had reasons to act 367 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 3: in self defense on that day. 368 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 6: So we go back into court once again using the 369 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 6: government's concession is a basis for a new trial, and 370 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 6: again the Eighth Circuit manages to affirm the conviction, pointing 371 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 6: out that in the indictment Peltier was named as an 372 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 6: aider and a better so in theory the conviction could 373 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 6: be upheld, even though that was not the case the government. 374 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 7: What up. 375 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 4: Leonard? 376 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: All these years decades in prison, forty nine years and 377 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: eleven days, How did you manage to find hope inside 378 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: those walls all those years. 379 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 5: I didn't join the rest of inmates. I didn't go 380 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 5: into what they usually do, drugs and drinking and things 381 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 5: like that. I kind of went into my own little group. 382 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 5: We played handball, worked out in the weights, and paint. 383 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 5: I went into art room and I decided I was 384 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 5: going to develop my artwork, and I went to school 385 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 5: for a while, helped Peter Mansson write In the Spirit 386 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 5: of Crazy Horse, and then I eventually wrote my own book, 387 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 5: Prison Writings, and In the Spirit of Crazy Horse went 388 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 5: to number one best seller in the world. The FBI 389 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 5: filed twenty million dollar lawsuit. Bill Jankel, the governor of 390 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 5: South Dakota, filed a twenty five million dollar losson They 391 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 5: held it off. The bookshelves for eight and a half years, 392 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 5: cost us two and a half million dollars to defend ourselves, and. 393 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: I hope everyone will order recovery of that book. But 394 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: you had on your side, not just Pope Francis Art 395 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: Bishop too, to Mother, Teresa Nelson, Mandela Muhammad, Ali. 396 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 5: Marlon Brando, Robert Redford, Peter Coyote. 397 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: The Dali, Lama, Coreta, Scott. 398 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 5: King, Santana, Grateful Dead, Willian. 399 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 4: Nelson, Johnny Depp. 400 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: Of course Rage Against the Machine. 401 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 2: I know a lot of gen xers and millennials like 402 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 2: myself were too young to know about Leonard when the 403 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 2: case happened back in nineteen seventy five. Some of us 404 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 2: weren't born yet. However, a lot of people heard about 405 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 2: Leonard with a music video for Freedom by Rage Against 406 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 2: the Machine was released on MTV back when that was 407 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 2: still a thing. If you went to a rage show, 408 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: especially support of that album, you heard a lot about Leonard. 409 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 2: And that was nineteen ninety four, and his cause gained 410 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 2: a lot of political momentum toward the end of the 411 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 2: Clinton administration, not just because of Rage Against the Machine, 412 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 2: but also because a former FBI agent turned Congressman Don 413 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 2: Edwards joined the cause as well. 414 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 5: Don Edwards, he was a supporter of mine and he 415 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 5: was doing an interview and they asked him and they said, 416 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 5: why are you supporting someone that was convicted of killing 417 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 5: two year agents? He said, I worked there, I know 418 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 5: what they did to Leonard. And there's others. There's probably 419 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 5: about ten more FBI agents that came forward and said 420 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 5: they don't use this term, but it meant they manufactured 421 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 5: evidence and tortured witnesses and things like that. 422 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: So the political will was primed for Clinton's final days 423 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: in office as a team of people, including Bruce Ellison, 424 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: advocated passionately for Leonard's clemency. 425 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 3: And we got some very interesting contacts from some Hollywood 426 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: folks who had regular contacts with the Clintons. We met 427 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 3: with White House counsel and chief of staff. We had 428 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 3: a really good meeting. 429 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: Was that Bruce Lindsay. 430 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 4: Bruce Lindsay was one of the participants. 431 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 3: Yes, And leading up to this, about several weeks before 432 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 3: Senator Dashel from South Dakota was the Senate majority leader 433 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 3: at the time, took William Janklow, who. 434 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: Was Leonard, told us about his early life too. He's 435 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: a reprehensible character must bartant. 436 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, he was basically a convicting tribal court a child, right. 437 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 2: If you remember we talked about Bill Jenklow's privileged existence, 438 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: his alleged serial rape ignored not only by law enforcement 439 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 2: but by South Dakota voters, paving the way to Janklow 440 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 2: becoming Attorney general Governor of South Dakota twice, as well 441 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 2: as his path to Congress. And after all this time 442 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: for Leonard and Ames audacity to RaSE Gencida Eagle Deer's allegations. 443 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 2: During Janklow's run for AG in nineteen seventy four, Jinklow 444 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 2: actively lobbied against Leonard's clemency. In the year two. 445 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 3: Thousand, Dashel leads Janklo in to meet with Clinton. Clinton 446 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,959 Speaker 3: was told that South Dakota senator would lose the next election. 447 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 3: It was going to cost the Democrats the Senate if 448 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 3: he pardoned Peltier, which is bullshit. 449 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 4: But we have this meeting the next week. 450 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 3: This is on like a Friday, a week before Clinton's leaving. 451 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 4: Office, and it goes great. 452 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 3: And in fact, I was asked to draft up a 453 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 3: bunch of bullet points for Clinton to say at a 454 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 3: press conference. Announcing the clemency, and then on Wednesday of 455 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 3: the following week, Clinton's lawyers, according to the Hollywood People, 456 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 3: said that meeting on Wednesday was about whether Clinton was 457 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 3: going to be indicted for perjury in front of the 458 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 3: grand jury, white Water grand Jury, Monica Lewinsky grand jury, 459 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 3: and other things. 460 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 4: And I've been through lots of. 461 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 3: Of times that they do questioning and work out deals 462 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 3: and all this stuff. And basically, while I don't know 463 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 3: the exact words, Leonard's name came up four times during 464 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 3: the day's discussions, and basically Clinton got the idea and 465 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,120 Speaker 3: he was told, look, if you grant this clemency, anytime 466 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 3: you want your huousand two hundred thousand dollars speaking engagements 467 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 3: wherever you are in the country of the world, that's 468 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 3: going to get picketed by cops and we're going to 469 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 3: make it difficulty you to earn your money. 470 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 4: Well, you can do nothing, and he did nothing. 471 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: By this time, the Supreme Court had also ignored Leonard's 472 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: case despite the blatant material Brady violation, and so the 473 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: legal battle began to focus on obtaining an estimated one 474 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: hundred thousand undisclosed FBI documents through Foyer requests to see 475 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: what else they could find. 476 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 6: Leonard went through a number of lawyers who were fighting 477 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 6: this issue, and he re enlisted me. I think back 478 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 6: in two thousand and six, back in the o's we 479 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 6: got a lot of documents, and a lot of documents 480 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 6: we didn't yet, and a lot of documents we still 481 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 6: haven't received. 482 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 2: But nothing of newt was handed over. Meanwhile, as sentencing 483 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 2: law went before nineteen eighty four, despite his double life sentence, 484 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 2: Leonard became eligible for parole after twenty five years plus 485 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 2: the seven years he'd gotten for the escape and weapon possession, 486 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 2: and his lawyer made a strong presentation that was summarily 487 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 2: denied for an additional fifteen years, during which time they 488 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 2: lobbied the Obama administration twice to no avail, and Leonard 489 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 2: was denied parole again at the Parole board in twenty 490 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 2: twenty four, with just a few months left in the 491 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: Biden administration. 492 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 6: Administrations, far more sympathetic to Native American issues, refused to 493 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 6: grant him clemency. Every judicial remedy had been exhausted. I mean, 494 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 6: there's two ways to look at the legal fight. One 495 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 6: way is that ongoing consistent legal bans adults shipping away 496 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 6: at the prosecution's case helped enable the mass movement that 497 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 6: eventually succeeded in winning clemency for Peltier. That's what I 498 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 6: choose to believe. There is another position you could take, 499 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 6: which is, despite hundreds of thousands of lawyer hours being 500 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 6: poured into the case, nothing that any of the dozens 501 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 6: of lawyers did accomplished a single damn thing for Leonard. 502 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 5: But my people have never given up on me. That 503 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 5: was very, very encouraging. 504 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 3: You know, Leonard's long had such international recognition and efforts 505 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 3: at justice put forth and that have always been ignored. 506 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 3: But the combination this time worked. You know, all the 507 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 3: tribal leaders got together. Secretary Headland spoke to Biden a 508 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 3: couple of times privately. There was a lot of people 509 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 3: who were just making a lot of things happen. And 510 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 3: then Tilson and Holly really just did a tremendous job. 511 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 3: And so anyway, somewhere in this mix, Biden decides to 512 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 3: do the right thing. 513 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: So Holly mccaro and Nick Tilson, from an advocacy group 514 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: called Indian Collective, along with a former federal judge named 515 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: Kevin Sharp, petitioned the Biden administration for clemency. And there's 516 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: a documentary called pre Leonard Peltier that we're going to 517 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: link in the episode description. I highly recommend it. By 518 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: the way, the moment the news came through was caught 519 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,959 Speaker 1: on video. It gave me full body jills watching that 520 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: and Holly mccaro, she was actually there for this incredible moment. 521 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 7: On the day that Leonard was granted clemency, I was 522 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 7: in the parking lot in Florida. He was in Coleman, 523 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 7: the Federal Max. We had told Leonard that we had 524 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 7: had some strong indications and were feeling very positive, but 525 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 7: again we had to see it in writing because of 526 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 7: what happened with Clinton, where they told him he's on 527 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 7: the list, then they wake up and he wasn't on 528 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 7: the list. So we expected it to be on Monday morning. 529 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 7: So we're in the parking lot. We prayed, we sang 530 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 7: our songs, we smudged, and I was in very close 531 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 7: contact with several folks within the White House while we 532 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 7: were waiting. Fred Dejarlie, who's a spiritual leader. He was 533 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 7: with us and he said, there's an eagle over there, 534 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 7: and I didn't know that there were bald eagles in 535 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 7: Florida that far south, and we all looked and there 536 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 7: were two eagles circling above us. You could hear them whistling. 537 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 7: That was maybe then around eleven fifteen am and sixteen 538 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 7: seventeen eighteen, we were hitting refreshed on White House dot 539 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 7: Gov over and over. I was too Yeah, if I'd 540 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 7: never have to hit refresh again, it'll be too soon. 541 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 7: But I had already begun receiving notes from friends and 542 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 7: family and folks who know I had been working in 543 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 7: advocacy for Leonard and saying, oh, I'm really sorry, because 544 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 7: there was already video of the president leaving the White 545 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 7: House and heading for the Capitol on inauguration day there. 546 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 7: So I think it was eleven forty four when the 547 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 7: announcement came through and we celebrated in the parking lot there, 548 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 7: and that announcement it was just that he had commuted 549 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 7: his sentence. We didn't receive the detail with the home 550 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 7: confinement or the date of February eighteenth until a couple 551 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 7: of hours later, and Leonard called me, and almost exactly 552 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 7: an hour later, and he said, well, my dear, I've 553 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 7: been on pins and needles. I've been up since midnight. 554 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 7: He said, did you do it? And I said, yes, Leonard, 555 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 7: President Biden granted you. Clemency was sixteen minutes left in 556 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 7: his administration. He said, did you see it in writing? 557 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 7: And I said, I saw it in writing. And then 558 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 7: Leonard said, so it's real, then it's real. I said, yes, 559 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 7: it's real. You'll be going home. 560 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 5: I didn't really believe that I got it even after 561 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 5: the war and called me down, gave me a copy 562 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 5: of this commendation and everything, and I said, that is 563 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 5: all a joke, man, And so I really didn't believe 564 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 5: it even very few days later. I just you're going 565 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 5: to come tell me at any moment, so bullshit. And 566 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 5: I were playing games or whatever else. So that's what 567 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 5: went through my mind. 568 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 6: And honestly, I don't think if anybody saw that coming. 569 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,239 Speaker 6: I think that most of us, if we're going to 570 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 6: be honest with ourselves, never thought we would see the 571 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 6: day that Leonard would walk out of prison alive. And 572 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 6: it was just ironic. It took a man with absolutely 573 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 6: no political future left to him to summon up the 574 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 6: political will to go ahead and sign that paper. 575 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 5: Got in a car with Holly and Nick and hell 576 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 5: out of. 577 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 7: Here, we had a ribbon shirt, we had new moccasins 578 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 7: for him as he began this new path forward, and 579 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 7: then we had a ceremony to help him leave some 580 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 7: of this behind him and flew him home to Turtle Mountain. 581 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 2: Leonard is finally out of prison, but he's still under 582 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 2: house arrest for the terms of his clemency. 583 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: Which come on house arrest after what we've heard here. 584 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: But at least Leonard is finally able to breathe free air, 585 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: see family and friends, and see a doctor outside of prison. 586 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,280 Speaker 2: After fifty years of medical neglect, he is in dire 587 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 2: need of medical attention at the age of eighty. We 588 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 2: will link ways to donate in the episode description here, 589 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 2: as well as other action steps, And of course we 590 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,879 Speaker 2: asked Leonard and Bruce what else people can do. 591 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 5: I need my story told again and again and again 592 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 5: because hopefully it will help my people. 593 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 3: This is a message for people lawyers who I want 594 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 3: to encourage young lawyers to get involved. But that is 595 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 3: you've got to remember that this is a war, and 596 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 3: it's a real war, and they fight it in different ways, 597 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,240 Speaker 3: and yes there are risks, because we know the American 598 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,359 Speaker 3: government works in a way that they never go after 599 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 3: people for political reasons. 600 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 4: They're always going after them because they're criminals. 601 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 3: Well, when Jed Cahover passed away to read a book 602 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 3: by Sanford Hunger about the FBI the POSTI, one of 603 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 3: the things he mentions in there was to cover that 604 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 3: up and make it legal. They entered instructions that if 605 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 3: you decided to actually target a person, you have to 606 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 3: put in some crime that you believe that you're actually investigating, 607 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 3: so that whatever the result is, it's not because they're 608 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 3: trying to defend their people they want to protect the 609 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 3: land from a hazard this pipeline. It's because they're engaged 610 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 3: in criminal activities. 611 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 4: And thus we have the world that. 612 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 3: We have today right where we're going to watch people 613 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 3: around it up. There's always going to be some law 614 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 3: that they're going to try and claim. Now having a 615 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 3: little problem with the immigration stuff, but really they're going 616 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 3: to pass laws in Congress. They're going to do what 617 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 3: they did in South Dakota and a lot of other 618 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,919 Speaker 3: places where what they call anti riot booster laws where 619 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 3: they essentially criminalize nonviolent civil disobedience as terrorism. The struggle 620 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,280 Speaker 3: to protect the earth, to protect the people in terms 621 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 3: of having a livable world and a sustainable world and 622 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 3: a free world. That struggle is now reach out another height. 623 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,359 Speaker 3: There's renewed Indian activism and the government is going after 624 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 3: people now, so we have like the next wave which 625 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 3: is coming, and men like Leonard Peltier and beIN Pular though, 626 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 3: they're the ones that will help and are helping to 627 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 3: inspire the young people and give a direction of discipline 628 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 3: and love and honor and respect. It's been an honor 629 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 3: of mine despite what I have gone through, and I 630 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 3: got a lot of messages for lawyers who want to 631 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 3: get involved in this particular work. Be prepared for anything, 632 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 3: because you get treated like the people you're representing. They 633 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 3: literally think you're part of it. And to some extent, 634 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 3: I honorably became part of that. Because this is the 635 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 3: real world. These are things that affect people's daily ability 636 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 3: to survive. 637 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 1: We have a tradition here at Wrongful Conviction. It's called 638 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: closing arguments, and it's where I first of all, thank 639 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,919 Speaker 1: you again from the bottom of my heart for being 640 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,959 Speaker 1: here and sharing this story with us. And then I'm 641 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,280 Speaker 1: just going to kick back in my chair and listen 642 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: to anything else you feel has been left unsaid. 643 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 7: I think it is so important to tell this story. 644 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 7: It's about injustice, eventual justice. When we share this story 645 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 7: with audiences like yours, it helps us ensure that this 646 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 7: will never happen again, but it also lets us know 647 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 7: that the work continues. Many of the things that inspired 648 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 7: the birth of the American Indian Movement in Minneapolis, and 649 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 7: that inspired Dino and Leonard and other leaders of the 650 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 7: movement back then, those conditions exist today. Their activism and 651 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 7: voices brought us to the table in the nineteen seventies 652 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,959 Speaker 7: and inspired landmark legislation that we all rely on today 653 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 7: to protect American Indian rights. But some of those conditions 654 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,359 Speaker 7: exist today, and I think Leonard looking forward has an 655 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 7: important platform and role of leadership in making sure that 656 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 7: the injustice doesn't happen again, but that we are also 657 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 7: always making the noise to protect our people. 658 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 3: In these dangerous and threatening times, it is important for 659 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 3: us to remember that we can either go as sheep, 660 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 3: or we can stand up. And if we stand up, 661 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,280 Speaker 3: and especially stand up for those who were being threatened 662 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 3: by aspects of our system that's designed to stop exposure 663 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 3: the truth the reality of too many people in this 664 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 3: country and we figure out how to do it together 665 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 3: and do it with love. But most importantly, there's too 666 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 3: many people who been wrongfully convicted and who are still 667 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 3: in prison, and anyone who can do anything to help, 668 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,760 Speaker 3: information whatever, don't forget those people. 669 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 4: You just never know what. 670 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 3: Might happen if you keep trying, and you keep sending 671 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 3: all those prayers and strength and love to those who 672 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 3: are decision making, it's keeping that person strong and healthy. 673 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 3: So I guess that's what I'd say, because it's only 674 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 3: together we can do this, and we can't. 675 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 5: I can't express how I'm actually feeling about this freedom. 676 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 5: Like I said, I've never expected it. I didn't think 677 00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 5: it was going to happen. I thought it was going 678 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 5: to in prison. But it isn't just about Leonard Peltier. 679 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 5: It's about the struggle. It's about what they did or 680 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 5: try to do to us Natives. They tried to exterminate us. 681 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 5: We were we're not supposed to exist no more. We 682 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 5: were supposed to be gone by nineteen eighty five, that's 683 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 5: when the extermination policy was supposed to be completed. So 684 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 5: for me to be able to fight for my people 685 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:32,480 Speaker 5: and sacrifice is an honor. I would not hesitate to 686 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 5: fight for them again, even though I went through fifty 687 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 5: years in prison. It's just something that was honor for 688 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 5: me to fight for my people, and it's honor for 689 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 5: me to be able to talk to them now, to 690 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,799 Speaker 5: all the people around the world that supported me. It's 691 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,359 Speaker 5: something I can't really express how grateful I am, how 692 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,280 Speaker 5: honored I am that they would put me in this position, 693 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,280 Speaker 5: and I'm just very grateful for everything everybody's doing. 694 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen 695 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 696 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for 697 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our 698 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: production team, Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as 699 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 1: my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Kleiber. 700 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: The music in this production was supplied by three time 701 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,319 Speaker 1: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us 702 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and 703 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram 704 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,320 Speaker 1: at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of 705 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one. 706 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported 707 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed 708 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: by the individuals featured in this show are their own 709 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good