WEBVTT - FDA Clears Shot for Some With Poor Immune Defence 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.000 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.479 Bloomberg Business Weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.439 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.360 Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.320 search Bloomberg Global News. We mentioned some of the COVID 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:34.560 and vaccine headlines that have been crossing the Bloomberg. The 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.440 big one really is u S regulators giving a third 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:41.440 COVID nineteen vaccine clearance to that especially for those people 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.080 with weekend immune systems UH. The authorization applying to buff 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:48.880 Maderna and Fiser with organ transplant recipients or those whose 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:53.200 immune systems are similarly compromised, so that's what's really being focused. Meantime, 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:55.760 you've seen some of the other headlines about Australia facing 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:59.800 its worst COVID nighteen crisis. Yet the schools around the 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.880 country trying to figure it out, voting in many cases 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.800 to require masks for students and teachers. We're seeing that 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.319 certainly in Houston, Chicago also taking steps, and we talked 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.160 about what's going on in Belize one of the carnival 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.679 cruise ships. So let's get our weekly Friday check on 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.160 COVID and the world of medicine at large. Back with 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:19.800 us is Dr Ian LUs Beder, clinical Professor of Medicine 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:21.480 at n y U Lango and once with us once 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.280 again on the phone in Long Island. Dr LUs Beder, 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.440 Good to have you here. How's your week been? Okay, 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.720 always the pleasure, Carol, Happy Friday, welcome back from vacation. 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:35.640 Thank you. Yeah. Why why is it's been so busy, Well, 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.119 the office is busy, and we're actually seeing a number 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:42.280 of patients who have been vaccinated, including some staff who've 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:46.839 gotten Delta, So we're definitely seeing those breakthroughs. And everybody 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.400 is talking about the third vaccine, who's going to get 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.720 it and uh and when? Well, so, what did you 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.160 make of regulators coming out this week and and giving 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:59.880 clearance for some to get that third COVID nineteen vaccine. 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:01.440 I feel like there's gonna be a fair amount of 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:05.480 confusion here. Yes, I think this is the first step 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.160 to basically everybody getting approved for a third that scene. 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:13.480 The immuno compromise patients are particularly a concern, and as 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.000 you say, it's about two or three million Americans, and 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.920 they can have solid organ transplants, can be transplant, pancreas transplant, 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:24.720 long heart transplant UH, and then another group with UH 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:30.160 immunose suppressant medications UH, things like the antipns for inflammatory 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.720 bottel disease and rheumatorid arthritis. All of those patients to 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:38.440 some degree may have an element an element of immuno 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.800 suppression and immuno compromise. So the concern is in the 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.480 patients with those organ transplants UH, they overall have a 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.960 worse outcome that they get COVID to they're not they 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.200 don't form antibodies as well, because part of your immune 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.880 system responds to the SHOPS and they also seem to 0:02:55.960 --> 0:03:00.880 lose antibody sooner. So that group really has several why 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.679 a booster shot makes sense. Although we are seeing more 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.400 people like healthcare workers who are vaccinated back in January 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:12.640 who are losing antibodies who are getting delta. So my 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:16.200 sense is that this is the first group, and obviously 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.120 it's being studied, but I suspect more and more people 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.280 will have the option open to them. I do think 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:23.200 that there's probably you know, a lot of people are 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.799 listening to this conversation and they have been throughout the 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.200 week here on Bloomberg trying to understand, well, wait a minute, 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.320 how do I know when my immunity falls off? How 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:36.360 does it work scientifically? Um? Does it just drop off automatically? 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:38.320 And I know there's lots of studies being out there 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.200 are people who are being followed very closely so that 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.560 you know, our regulators, UM know when we're gonna need 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.760 a booster on a larger scale. But can you explain 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.800 that a little bit for us? Yeah, so, and I 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.800 AH certainly has a group of patients they're following. Some 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.280 of this data is from Israel with FISER and they 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.760 were one of the first back in November, December, maybe 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:06.120 even October to start getting the vaccines, and they're beginning 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:10.680 to see more breakthrough an antibody levels drop. For most Americans, 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.960 we do not necessarily check their antibodies, although I have 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.160 I've checked patients, for example, who are traveling who may 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.640 be going to another country that requires it, and you 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:26.080 can get a spike uh antibody level. And I would 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.640 say most patients um have antibodies, but we don't know 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:33.560 the exact number where they're vulnerable. People can have no 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.720 antibodies and obviously they're unprotected, but even as the antibody 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:41.960 levels drop, we think there's a risk. And Delta seems 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.159 to be a little more resistant to the antibodies. So 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.560 there are several reasons why Delta is not only affecting 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:53.960 the unvaccinated, which is obviously an epidemic and various counties 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.440 and states, but why we're seeing even vaccinated people now 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:01.159 carrying it. Delta is able because it as mutated to 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.440 escape some of the antibodies formed from the original alpha 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:08.360 variant that we gave over the last six to seven months. 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.080 So do you think most of us will ultimately be 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.520 getting a booster. I don't know before the end of 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:19.320 the year. Well, I think until a Delta vaccine is made, 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.200 you know, specifically for the Delta variant, and of course 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.360 there may be other mutations and variants. All we can 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.000 do is really give a booster of the original, which 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.440 doesn't seem to have some benefit, and I do think 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.600 most of us will be offered that before the end 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:36.000 of the year. Yes, all right, interesting to see that. Um. 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.279 Do you feel like the situation that we're seeing in 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:44.760 terms of rising cases and hospitalizations not good but better 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.400 than what we saw perhaps a year ago or at 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.239 the beginning of the pandemic. Yes, we most more people 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.479 are certainly older, more vulnerable people have been vaccinated. They're 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.200 actually doing better. A lot of the young people, because 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.159 they thought they were safe, have not been vaccinated. We 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.680 are seeing more hospitalizations in certain areas, you know, with that, 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.800 And yes, I think we're getting sort of the last 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.920 number of Americans, the fifty or sixty million who were 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:14.240 not vaccinated. Eventually, we'll all get Delta sooner or later, 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.039 even with masks, UH and cohorting and pods and all 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.839 of that. And I think when that wave goes through 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:25.679 probably November, December, January, America will be in a little 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:29.839 better place, assuming no new variants that are resistant comes through. 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.240 So I think it's gonna be a rough ride for 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.479 a few months. Hopefully more people will get the vaccine, 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.919 will get boosters. I think and that should flatten the 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:40.520 curve a bit, but it's still going to be a 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.000 rough going for several more months. All right, let's get 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.760 back to Dr in Lass Beata, clinical Professor Medicine at 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.400 n y U Landgown, still with us on the phone 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:52.919 in Long Island. I it does feel like we have 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.600 learned a lot and we have obviously have a vaccine 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:57.880 and we're gonna talk later on Uh. In just about 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:00.080 fifteen minutes with one of our reporters is to in 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:04.279 Business Week about you know, folks, the vaccine works and 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:06.560 it does make a difference, and we didn't have that 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.760 a year ago. We are also increasingly seeing companies say, 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.600 you know what, we're watching these cases rise. We're gonna 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.440 slow our role in terms of bringing people back to 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:18.600 the office. So we have learned something, and we are 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.640 learning how to manage this pandemic because we're going to 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.000 have to write because it's with us for a long time. Well, 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:28.920 it certainly looks that way. Uh. And you know, public 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:34.000 health measures um ever, really since the Bubonic plague in 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.600 the thirteen hundreds and the Spanish flew, there was a 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.120 whole debate about masks, and of course at that time 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:42.440 they just had cloth masks, but there were a number 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.080 of people who were sitting on the sidewalk and so forth. 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:49.400 So and then polio, smallpox. There's always been a pathogen 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.040 at one point or another that that has threatened the public, 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:58.040 and and the way people respond has always been very variable. 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:02.320 We're very fortunate to have technology like vaccines and perhaps 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.600 even some medications, whether it's monoclone, land of bodies or 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.000 ever becton or there may be other medications out there 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:11.400 that we need to pursue that may also be one 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.520 arm of treatment. So you've got prevention, you've got diagnosis, 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.680 you've got treatment. But certainly the vaccines had been very, 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.600 very helpful. It would be great if we could develop 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:24.600 rapidly a delta vaccine. But in the interim, you know, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.880 we're seeing businesses like Facebook say, you know, maybe you 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.360 need to do that from home. Not all businesses can 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.240 do that. I mean even medicine, which is can be 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:37.640 remote or telemedicine. People like to commend, people like to interact. 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.600 Many businesses are more productive that way. Um, and I 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.640 think it's good for people's mental health. But every business 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:46.760 has to make a decision, you know, is it better 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.760 for for their employees to remain distant. Some businesses are 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:56.040 requiring vaccines. If the FDA formally approves the vaccine, some 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.920 businesses and hospitals will mandate that as part of employment. 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.160 So it's a very dynamic landscape. When you see the 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:09.400 school struggling and clashing sometimes with unions or with uh 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:14.120 their state or local officials, a lot of schools are saying, wait, 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:15.840 we we need to have this mask role and we're 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.160 seeing course roll in and all of this. What do 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.360 you believe needs to be done in order for schools 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.880 to open up safely. Well, I certainly take care of 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:29.000 the number of teachers and professors that are very reluctant 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.840 to go back into the classroom. And obviously you've got 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.760 some classrooms with open windows, and you've got some classrooms 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:38.800 where everyone is vaccinated, including um, you know, perhaps the 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:41.839 eighteen or twenty year olds in college. So it's really 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.560 very variable. I think there are many kinds of masks. 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.640 The N ninety pods are quite effective, most people don't 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.040 wear them, or of access to that. I do think 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.400 each of these is one component. So open windows, pods, 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:57.360 masking will prevent some degree of transmission. It's not perfect 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.480 by any means. We've always said the virus our souls 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.560 are much tinier than the pores of the mask. But 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:05.840 I do think all of these things are an effort 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:08.760 to make everyone feel better that they're trying to do 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:13.680 something that will probably slow the spread. Inevitably, the way 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.360 most pandemics work is that eventually everyone gets exposed, which 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.480 I think will happen, and so you want to be 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:23.520 as protected as can be, which certainly would be vaccinations 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.160 at this point, although not perfect, and we need to 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.240 look at other medications that may be helpful with treatment. 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:31.800 The FDA really needs to be more aggressive with that. 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.600 Hey real quickly, just got about five seconds here. You 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:37.160 I've heard you mentioned a couple of times a delta vaccine. 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.280 Is that likely before the end of the year. I 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:42.680 don't think so. If they're working on it, I think 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.160 it's going to be easier to distribute the current manufacturing 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.839 of the first of the alpha basically eventually we may 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:52.560 need to do that, and I think it's good to 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.480 develop that technology anyway. Well, always good to check. I agree, 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.400 and I think many of the medical profession will concur 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:01.720 with you. Ian. Thank you so much. Have a good, 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.800 safe weekend. Dr Ian las Bader, his crilitical professor of 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.120 Medicine at n YU Land, going joining us on the 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:11.040 phone in Long Island. And just as a reminder global 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.760 tracker that we have here at Bloomberg virus cases topping 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:18.679 two hundred five point six million, deaths passing four point 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.120 three million, and when it comes to the vaccine, more 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:25.680 than four point six billion doses have been administered. You're 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.679 listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:33.720 Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. So I've been 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.280 referencing this story as we talked with Dr Ian lous 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.400 Bader over at n y U Land going. You know, 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:41.680 amid all the headlines of rising virus cases and hospitalizations 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.120 due to the delta variant, it's very easy to lose 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.040 sight of the fact that COVID vaccines are really working. 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.400 That's a Business Week story now online and on the 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.880 Bloomberg terminal. So let's dig into it with Bloomberg Business 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.079 Week editor Joel Weber. He's with us on the remote 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.679 access line in Massachusetts, along with Bloomberg News US healthcare 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.000 reporter Cynthia Kon. She's on the phone in New Jersey, 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.040 Zee and Cynthia. I want to start with you because 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:04.640 you've been following this. Uh, I feel like you're on 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.880 your soapbox a little bit, but in a good way. Well, 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.880 thanks for having me, Carol. I think the reality is here. 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.320 The data is really confusing for people. There's a lot 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.120 of data coming out really quickly, and there's a lot 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.280 of anecdotal stories coming out. And I see this in 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.760 my own life. I think people are hearing about breakthrough 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.120 infections in their own community, among their friends and family, 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:27.560 and they don't know how to make sense of these 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:29.560 some of these data sets that have been you know, 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.439 made visualizations online showing how rarit is to get a 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.080 breakthrough intraction. So I think people are really confused. And 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:37.920 I think adding and actually probably feeding that narrative is 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.920 really the fact the CDC hasn't come out with a 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:45.120 lot of high level data and information about breakthrough infections 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.000 that might help people, you know, get a real handle 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.560 on what we're seeing here. And so there's just this 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:56.080 overarching seeing that we continue to talk about with doctors 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:58.200 um when we report on this, and it's that the 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.480 COVID vaccine it doesn't have the ability to stop infection 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.080 the way other vaccines might. You might be thinking of 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.320 the measles vaccine, which prevented you from getting measles entirely, 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.839 but that's not what the COVID vaccine has the capability 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.960 to do, particularly in the face of delta. It does 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.880 have the ability from what we've seen from breakthrough data, 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.240 it weakens the virus and so people's experiences don't lead 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:24.040 hospitalization and death, and that's critical. That's very critical from 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.680 a public health perspective. But I think people, to be fair, 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.440 they don't get thick in the first place, so it's 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:34.200 not it's it's there's no You can see why people 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.800 are frustrated by this confusing messaging, and I think the 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.679 CDC needs to come out and give more data about 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.520 breakthrough infections and who's more at risk, because I think 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.400 that's the story that people are really you know, waiting here. 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:47.199 It's so important, Jill, you know, that's one of the 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:48.920 things I've been thinking about. It do feel like that 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.880 we're losing some of those important data points that really 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.280 kept us well informed, and especially now that we're dealing 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.880 with the delta variant well, and I think it speaks 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.480 to just like there's there's new information that people who 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.800 are interested in and and and Cynthia just like bringing 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.400 back to the CDC there. I mean, what do we 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.480 know about how they're even tracking breakthrough infections, because as 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.520 Bloomberg reported earlier in the year, that was not even 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.160 something that they were keeping an eye on for a 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:19.080 long time. So they decided only to to track hospitalized 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.360 breakthrough patients. And I don't know if that was because 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.720 of the resources involved in tracking all breakthrough cases, but 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.000 I was really surprised to learn when I did another 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.520 story on sequencing in the US, how there wasn't a 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.320 ton of connectivity in the system. So if a person 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.080 shows up and gets a COVID test, they may not 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.240 be asked if they had had COVID before. They might 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:41.560 not be asked if they had been vaccinated, for example, 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:43.880 and so that critical information may not even get to 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.480 the labs where they're sequencing the virus. That may have 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.760 to be pieced together in an epidemiology report or study 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.680 later on, But at that point we're losing weeks in 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.200 terms of figuring out if if we have an increasing 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.640 number of people who are vaccinated and getting the virus. 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.800 So that's problematic to begin with, and that of sort 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.040 of points to this lack of a cohesive system we have. 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:05.480 But the CDC said they were just going to focus 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.720 on the hospitalized patients because those were the most critical 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.400 in terms of understanding, Okay, this is the most virulent 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:13.960 type of virus and this is what we need to 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.040 protect against. But even within the public health communities who 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.960 have been watching this closely, there's frustration that we haven't 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.400 gotten lots of reports about the hospitalized patients to begin with, 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.720 so we don't necessarily have a lot of updates on 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.480 were those people, say I don't know, had other home 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:31.880 moor abilities or when did they get their vaccines. That's 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.360 a big question. Does community wane over time and so 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.520 are these some of the earliest vaccinated patients for example. 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.080 And then lastly, people argued to me that if we 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.320 don't look at break through infections before their hospitalized cases, 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.840 we're missing a really big opportunity to make some deuce 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.520 some interventions or stop this, or have knowledge sooner when 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.840 it's when it's more important for us to know what's 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.240 going on with breakthroughs overall than just the sickst patients. 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.880 So that's another important thought that maybe we do need 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:00.960 to double down now and say, Okay, this is happening, 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.360 we need to allocute resources and makes us a priority 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:05.640 to study it. And how much how much does the 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:11.920 FDA taking into account um breakthrough stuff, break through infections 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.640 and delta for that matter, and what they're doing because obviously, 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:17.680 and we talked about this a little bit before on 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.640 the show this week, you know, there's especially when it 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.680 comes to kids, like that f d A approval um 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.800 and vaccine hesitancy that that seems to be like sort 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.560 of the next shoe to drop in terms of, uh, 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:34.080 you know, public health messaging here in terms of getting 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.960 younger children vaccinated you mean, Joel, Yeah, exactly, and like 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.080 even just having the FDA stamp of approval in terms 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:46.600 of overcoming people who have hesitancy. Still, yes, so there's 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.080 some critical things that should happen soon, which is full 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.440 approval from the FDA. And then to the next stat 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.240 is really the approval for the vaccine under twelves. I 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.280 think there's a five to eleven cohort and then um 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.880 two to five I think are the breakdowns in terms 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:02.960 of how these have been studied, and so those are 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:05.320 really important they're they're going to happen this fall. I 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.760 have to say that f D is a really um 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.840 runs a little bit more conservative in terms of drug approvals. 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.160 They may take more time, and I don't think that's 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.040 a bad thing. I know that people are really, you know, 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.960 really want these vaccines for children, for example, perhaps full approval, 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.600 and I'm sure they're working around the clock. I think 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.720 at the end of the day, the FDA taking a 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:29.639 little more time to do that is probably not a 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:31.639 bad thing because I think one of the parts of 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.720 the narrative is that this has been hurried. When you 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.159 look at the anti vac sentiment, that's some of this 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:38.959 that's that comes up a lot. And so the FDA 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:41.800 is doing things how they want to do it, and 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.200 I think they should resist the pressure to speed things 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.720 up just for the sake of having something that you know, 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.119 they have to use, that follow the process and protocols, 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:52.880 and they've they've actually been out of step with other 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.439 regulators and drugs in the past, and it's been to 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:59.199 the safety of the process. So I think that's not 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.560 necessarily a bad thing. But to be fair, these these 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.359 pediatric trials are huge, so it's gonna it may be, 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:07.760 you know, a little bit longer before we get that data, 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:09.240 but I think in the grand scheme of things, it 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.320 is coming really soon. It'll be this fall. So I 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.480 think that is really up positive. You gotta say the 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.479 last line in your story and for those who might 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:18.840 be hesitant about getting the vaccine, if you think it's 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.560 been bad, it could get much worse. And you cite 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.320 somebody in an immunology professor at Louisa Louisiana State University 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.040 in treport who said, I would almost guarantee that we 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.359 have more variants that come and they may be worse 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.040 than delta. That's why it's so critical to get immunized. 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.919 I mean, if we don't get to hurt immunity, the 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:37.760 potential for it to get much worse is out there 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:42.240 and just quickly, um Cynthia. Yeah. And the thing is 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.840 the unvaccinated population is how these variants emerged. So the 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.760 act of not being vaccinated isn't just about not spreading 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.399 COVID to your neighbors are getting it yourself. It's also 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.000 about not becoming a breeding ground for a variant that 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:58.880 becomes more dangerous than delta. So getting vaccinated protects your neighbor, yourself, 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.640 your household, and the rest of society when it comes 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.720 to not creating new variants in this ecosystem. So that 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:08.680 is the most important thing we can do. It's the 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.639 beyond masking and other things that we can do that 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:15.119 our public health measures. But but as an individual, getting 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.880 a vaccine is really powerful for preventing whatever is coming 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.120 behind delta. Yep, back to thinking about your community. Cynthia Coons, 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:24.680 thank you so much, US healthcare reporter at Bloomberg News. 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.400 Check out her story on the Bloombergain at Bloomberg dot com. 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.040 Toe Webber, have a good weekend, editor of Bloomberg Business 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:34.439 Week from Massachusetts. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:38.960 Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:41.960 All right, there's a fascinating and thoughtful column that you 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.879 can find at Bloomberg dot com also on the Bloomberg Terminal. 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.840 It asks a question, what could possibly unite a drug 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:51.520 developer with a manufacturer of electric cars. It's all in 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:56.880 the narrative, so writes Bloomberg Opinion column that our next guest, 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.600 Max Neeson. He is biotech format and healthcare columnist at 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.679 Blomberg Opinion. You wrote it with our Bloomberg Liam at 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.080 Denning and Max training us on the phone in New 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.000 York City. Max. It's a great column. It's a thoughtful column, 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.560 and it really does make you stop and think. Tell 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:17.000 us about the comparison on Maderna and Tesla. Sure, absolutely, so, 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.520 you know there's obvious comparison is that both of them, 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:25.040 um have have added you know, more than a hundred 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.560 billion dollars in Testl's case, several hundreds of billions of 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:31.280 dollars um in value in a very short amount of 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:35.960 time um. And and that has people calling Maderna, including 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:39.520 some anos, the Tesla biotech just in that it's added 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:45.480 a tremendous amount of value. Yeah, um in it um 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:48.280 it Also it's sort of being valued like a platform, 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.760 not just for its enorvously successful COVID vaccine, but for 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:53.960 what comes next. So that sort of prompted us to 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.400 take a closer work and what sort of you can 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.800 learn by by looking at the two of them together. Well, 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:01.560 for Tesla, for a long time, I mean we had 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.359 so many conversations here on Bloomberg with analysts, investors. It 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.400 was really a wait and see and there was lots 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:10.440 of promises about what it would be for a long time, 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.119 and it you really had to have faith in the company. 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.760 And it feels like I get the comparison because obviously 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:18.920