1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: the Thing from iHeart Radio. In twenty twenty one, I 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: spoke with documentary filmmaker Lucy Walker about her film Bringing 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: Your Own Brigade, which focuses on the two La wildfires 5 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, the Campfire, which nearly destroyed the town 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: of Paradise and killed eighty five people, and the Woolsey Fire, 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: which erupted on the same day and destroyed large parts 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: of Malibu. At the time, those wildfires were the largest 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: in California's history. You can find a link to that 10 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: conversation with Lucy Walker in the show notes of this episode. 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: In January of this year, Los Angeles suffered more devastation 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: from out of control wildfires that destroyed the Pacific Palisades 13 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: areas of Altadena and killed twenty nine people. Incredibly, the 14 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: recent fires eclipsed the size and devastation of the two. 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: I was eighteen disaster and have left all of Los 16 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: Angeles in mourning. I asked Lucy Walker to join me 17 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 1: again to see how she's doing and to ask if 18 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: anything can be done to try to prevent this part 19 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: of the country from burning so predictably on a regular basis. 20 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: For Walker, it's been a traumatic revisiting of recent history. 21 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: It was horrifying watching it happen to my friends in 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: my town and knowing so much but feeling so powerless 23 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: to stop it. And that was such a terrifying couple 24 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: of days. And I was supposed to go I was 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 2: here when it happened, and then I had to go 26 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: straight to New York and go straight to an award show. 27 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 2: I was supposed to be on stage, and I actually 28 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 2: felt so panicked and upset I actually couldn't go on stage. 29 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: It really was such an upsetting time to be in 30 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: Los Angeles, and for everyone who loves the city and 31 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: who has friends involved. 32 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: In your film, bringing your own brigade, and you see, 33 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: of course that infamous section where they bring in the 34 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: advisor and they give them the very simple boilerplate of 35 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: things they needed to do to likely avoid at least 36 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: that level of severity again, and they refuse. What did 37 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: you understand was the reason why did they refuse? I mean, 38 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: it was something as vital as that. What was that 39 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: element of human nature as far as you were concerned. 40 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: Well, I think the simple answer is that you know 41 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: The fabulous thing about this country and what I chose 42 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 2: to immigrate from the UK, is that this is a 43 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 2: country of people striking out on their own and doing 44 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 2: their own thing and not sort of bound by old 45 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: community sort of get togethers, and really excited to kind 46 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: of progress and do their own thing. And the bad 47 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: news about that is when you try to get people 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: together to kind of rain in their individuality and you know, 49 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: for example, not have fammable plants, you know, three feet 50 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: from the house, or not have gutters or something like 51 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: that which are kind of low cost or no cost 52 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: anti fire measures, the instinctive reaction is I don't want 53 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: to be told what to do. But I think there's 54 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 2: a deeper issue, which is that the fire issue is 55 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 2: really counterintuitive. I went in such a learning journey when 56 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: I made the movie, and it wasn't intuitive. You know. 57 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 2: It's so when I've watched my dear beloved friends go 58 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: through this, it's so obvious that it's the fault of 59 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 2: the firefighters, or the fault of the water or the 60 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 2: mayor or something like that, right, the evacuation system. And 61 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: yet it's really hard to take in this bigger picture 62 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: because it is a layered story. Yes, it's climate change, 63 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: but it's also where we're building, and it's also how 64 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: we're building, and it's just kind of a complicated picture. 65 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: And you know, I've seen the same sort of things 66 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: kick in with my smart friends here in Los Angeles, 67 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: sort of seeing a part of the picture very clearly, 68 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: but not the whole picture. And so I really was 69 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: so grateful through this that I'd had financiers and colleagues 70 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: when I was making my film that actually supported me 71 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: to go on this kind of hard journey of finding 72 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: out the whole story because it's inconvenient and it's complicated. 73 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: But now in a situation like this, this is exactly 74 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 2: why I made the film with all the rigor and 75 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: work so so hard, and our team worked so hard 76 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: because I wanted, I felt a responsibility to get it right. 77 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: I felt like lives are at stake, homes are at stake, 78 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 2: and I felt like if I didn't get it right, 79 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 2: it would you know, I don't want to be grand 80 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: and said in danger lives, but I really felt like, gosh, 81 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 2: I just want to get the story right so that 82 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: people can understand, because it isn't easy to I knew 83 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: for myself when I started making the film, I had 84 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 2: this naive I did just put out the fires and 85 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 2: another simple idea, Oh it must be just climate change, 86 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: And neither of them are quite true and understanding now 87 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: as I do when I looked at the fire in 88 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: Los Angeles and all the dreadful things that have happened, 89 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 2: if you understand what's going on, I can understand everything 90 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 2: that's happened in this dreadful last few weeks. I can 91 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: see when someone opens their mouth, I can almost tell 92 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: you what they're going to say, because I know this 93 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 2: story so well, and I think it's hopefully going to 94 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 2: be a real resource and help to people that if 95 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: they do watch the film. I think it is hopefully 96 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 2: clear information that really gives you a three sixty picture. 97 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: When I live there, I got absorbed in southern California living, 98 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: and when you told me this happened in this area 99 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: of this can't be true, so much of it being gone, 100 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: and I'm wondering, do you think these people will be 101 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: different from the people in the campfire and they'll adhere 102 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 1: to some new code of how that might be restored. 103 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: I've been reflecting deeply on this and have some absolutely 104 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: some of my favorite closest friends who've lost their homes 105 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 2: and their animals and of their kids' schools and just 106 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 2: so profoundly impacted. And I'm hearing something a little bit different. 107 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: And I guess my prayer is that this is an 108 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 2: opportunity for some really well informed and well resourced people 109 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: to have this hard, hard conversation that I do believe 110 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 2: we're going to have to have sort of one way 111 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: or the other. This conversation is pressing up against us, 112 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 2: is are we going to do something a little bit differently, 113 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: Because I do think that the fundamental proposition of living 114 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 2: in the wildland urban interface in Los Angeles and perhaps 115 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: more broadly in California has changed. And part of that 116 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: is going to be the insurance companies, which in the 117 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 2: short term are going to be prevented from pulling out 118 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,559 Speaker 2: and changing coverage and things like that. But I don't 119 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: think that's going to last very long. I don't think 120 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 2: you can kind of force insurance companies to, you know, expose. 121 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: Themselves for these changes for risks for them. 122 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a change of circumstances and it's been kind 123 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: of creeping up, but I think this has really changed 124 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 2: things with the amount of money, and yeah, so I 125 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: think that the hope is that we will have less 126 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 2: of these in future, and we might build back smarter 127 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,559 Speaker 2: and have opportunities to live in a way that will 128 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 2: have less of these just devastations moving forward, because it's 129 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 2: not just I can't even say it's not just because 130 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: we're just in the middle of this horrific shock where 131 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: it seems so overwhelming and everything that we've lost. But 132 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 2: we've lost animals, we've lost homes, all my neighborhoods. 133 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: If people only knew that area how it is, I 134 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: mean California living among many things involved. You know, if 135 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: you've got two acres and a paddock in a Goa 136 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,679 Speaker 1: or North Hills, you've got a horse, you know, people, 137 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: animals or a big part of people's lives out there 138 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: because of the weather in a way they can't be 139 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: other places. 140 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: Exactly. It's not just that people have lost so much 141 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: in the short term. In the long term, it's also 142 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: these neighborhoods are not going to go back quickly. The 143 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: trauma can really last a long time. People have health 144 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 2: impacts actually after, you know, because you imagine the shock 145 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 2: and the stress of being homeless and finding new places 146 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 2: and moving around and just having to cope. You know, 147 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: will continue to see people have health problems that are 148 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: not actually they won't be traced to the fire. But 149 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: I remember, you know, to be absolutely brutal about it, 150 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: but let me say that two of the people I 151 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,119 Speaker 2: was following in the aftermath of the Paradise fire died 152 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,559 Speaker 2: of causes that you wouldn't recognize connected with the fire 153 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 2: in the year following as we kept filming heart attacks 154 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: in particular stress from the stress. Absolutely, you can never 155 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 2: kind of pin those things, right, but it did seem 156 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 2: like a lot of people, you know, it makes absolute sense, right. 157 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 2: So the thing I've been really praying is that the 158 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 2: people impacted can really try to sort of really take 159 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 2: care of their health and really prioritize just trying to 160 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: recover themselves because it's kind of a long haul. 161 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: Filmmaker Lucy Walker. Listen to our twenty twenty one conversation 162 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: for more in depth discussion about the LA fires and 163 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: Walker's documentary film, Bring Your Own Brigade. The title is 164 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: a reference to wealthy residents who hire their own private 165 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 1: firefighters to protect property during wildfires. 166 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 2: What I want to understand is, well, how are we 167 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: stopping it, and why are people living in these areas 168 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: and building these houses that burn over and over and 169 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 2: over again. Could we do better? So you would think 170 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: that when people look at developing an area for housing, 171 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 2: they would think about fire safety, but nobody's actually thinking about, 172 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: well are they going to be able to ensure these 173 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 2: homes and who's going to pay if these homes burn down. 174 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Lucy Walker, go 175 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: to Here's Thething dot org. After the break, Lucy Walker 176 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: details why she believes residents who choose to rebuild in 177 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: fire prone areas are taking on enormous risk to both 178 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: their financial stability and their lives. I'm Alec Baldwin, and 179 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: this is Here's the Thing. I first spoke with filmmaker 180 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: Lucy Walker in twenty twenty one. I was curious if 181 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: she stayed in touch with any of the subjects that 182 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: she was acquainted with while making her film. 183 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I absolutely. The film came out and it really 184 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 2: followed not just the fires, and it sort of talked 185 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 2: about fires in general and actually, if anything, it was 186 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 2: specific about could Los Angeles burn? Because that's where I 187 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: live and that was my sort of naive question that 188 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 2: I kind of sparked the conversation into the movie with. 189 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: But the Fire looked at those twin events that happened 190 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 2: in November twenty eighteen, but it didn't come out till 191 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, so I was filming a couple of 192 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 2: years after the events and put that in the movie. 193 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 2: But actually, you get really close with people when you 194 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 2: film with them, so I have absolutely kept in touch. 195 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 2: And it's a really slow journey back, and these neighborhoods 196 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 2: don't recover all at once. And what we're seeing now 197 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 2: is people have to live or make that decision, and 198 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 2: it's toxic for a very long time, and these are 199 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 2: going to be very slow, hard decisions about building. And 200 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 2: then it's a very slow process. 201 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,479 Speaker 1: So what's it like there now in your campfire area? 202 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 2: In the campfire area, it's coming back in that neighborhood. 203 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 2: The spirit was just rebuild back as fast as possible. 204 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: In the same exact way. 205 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 2: Yes, there's a strange thing that happens where real estate 206 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: goes up. They call it fire gentrification because you get 207 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 2: a lot of displaced people and so it's kind of 208 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: like things actually kind of escalate. What cuts off this 209 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 2: is the insurance. What people are up against is that 210 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 2: the insurance companies are really pulling out of these areas. 211 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: And there is this thing called the California Fair Plan, 212 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 2: which is, you know, the state gives you this option 213 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: of getting very expensive and very restrictive. You have to 214 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 2: sort of trim and do certain things to get your 215 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 2: fire insurance. But it does give people a backup option 216 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 2: to get insurance rather than not be insured at all. 217 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: But it's increasingly true that I think in that area 218 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: people are choosing to go without insurance. And of course 219 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: going without insurance is a nice affordable strategy until it 220 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: all goes wrong. I think some people there are individually 221 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: choosing to build back in a more fire safe way. 222 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 2: And what we've seen as these stories have emerged from 223 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 2: these New Los Angeles fires is there are stories that 224 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 2: the home that was fire hardened has survived. Now that's 225 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: not fool proof. My understanding is that even if you 226 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 2: have a far hardened home, it's not sort of impossible 227 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: that it'll burn, but it's way less likely. And so 228 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: I think these stories they did get through to some 229 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 2: people in Paradise, and some people did build back in 230 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 2: a more sort of hardened way, and they had a 231 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 2: fire that came through already I think it was two 232 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 2: summers ago, and they managed to put it out so 233 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 2: it wasn't a huge, uncontrollable one, but that area is 234 00:12:58,600 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 2: likely to burn again very soon. 235 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: Again. I'm very curious also as to what comes back afterward, 236 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: where the campfire people were like, well, no, we don't 237 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: want to change a thing. And I'm wondering, do we 238 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: wind up in a situation where you almost have to 239 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: have an AI capacity to develop what the next palisades 240 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: will be? Like the road you drove up to go 241 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: to your house, that road doesn't exist anymore. Do they 242 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: replan the whole thing, every square foot of it as 243 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: to access density, vegetation, building materials. This is an opportunity 244 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: to have, like an almost lab experiment. Do you agree absolutely? 245 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 2: What the movie showed was that the town leadership, the 246 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 2: town council, and the firefighters in that town in Paradise leadership, 247 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 2: the firefighters in the town, and all the organizations involved 248 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 2: really came together and had this really good process of 249 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 2: imagining how they could rebuild back differently and presenting it 250 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 2: to the town, and the town actually voted it down. 251 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 2: The town pressured the town council to vote down these 252 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 2: initiatives one by one, which was very disheartening to watch. 253 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 2: In the movie, however, they did have that dream. But 254 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 2: I think that exactly what you've described will happen in 255 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: these areas in Los Angeles that I think that people 256 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 2: are going to come together and say, how can we 257 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 2: do it a little bit differently? And I don't think 258 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 2: it'll be as radical as in the movie. There's a 259 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 2: section where Mike Davis, who's since passed away but wrote 260 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: a lot about fires, and he talks in the movie 261 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 2: about how when Los Angeles was designed, the most famous 262 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: sort of town planners of Los Angeles were these guys 263 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 2: called the Olmsted Brothers, and their vision was that these 264 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 2: areas that were burned repeatedly, such as Malibu, but that 265 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: were so beautiful that we wanted to be there, let's 266 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: be there, but let's only build sort of carefree cabins 267 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: where we can let it things burn, not keep our 268 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 2: great treasures there and not sort of disposable homes and 269 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 2: to enjoy for as long as they might be there. 270 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 2: But if the winds line up and the rains haven't come, 271 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: just get out of the way and let nature take 272 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 2: care of cleaning up, and then come back and build 273 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 2: another cabin again once that's past. And of course that's 274 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 2: not what we've done. These areas are so beautiful. We've 275 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 2: built these absolute palaces of homes within great artworks and 276 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 2: so forth there, and then of course we get terribly attached. 277 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: And then we've got also all this fantastic you know, 278 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 2: shrubberry and all these quite flammable plants and other flammable stuff, 279 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: and so we've kind of built up this huge problem 280 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: for ourselves. But I think now there is sort of 281 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: a blank slate about how we come back. I don't 282 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: expect that we'll get the carefree cabins, but I do 283 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: hold out hope that there will be positive conversation about 284 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: doing things a little bit differently so that we don't 285 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: have our hearts broken to this extent. 286 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: Again, at what point, in terms of public policy, to 287 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: people in every area like this, if you're building in 288 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: flood zones and the East Coast, and you're building in 289 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: fire zones on the West coast, how much do you 290 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: say to people you're on your own. You're going to 291 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: have to take care of all your costs, no insurance, 292 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: don't ask the federal government to come in and you know, 293 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: save your neighborhood the more important. Yes, save it on 294 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: a safety level, but not to pay for it to 295 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: rebuild it. 296 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 2: That's right. One thing that I heard from people, particularly 297 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 2: in Paradise, I think because it is this quite rugged, 298 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 2: anti big government area, was like, Oh, we don't want 299 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 2: to pay taxes, we don't want government. What does government 300 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 2: give us? But in the same conversation they say, oh, 301 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: I'm waiting for my FEMA money. I wish my FEMA 302 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 2: money was more, and not making that connection that FEMA 303 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 2: was a great gift of the government really and that 304 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 2: is what government can provide. And yet what is that 305 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: question about wanting to sort of pay into this kind 306 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 2: of common resource and pay out, you know. And now 307 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 2: we're dealing with insurance, it's like, well, this is a 308 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: very expensive incident. And moving forward, now that we are 309 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 2: starting to know more, are other policyholders who live in 310 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 2: safer areas going to want to subsidize these homes in 311 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 2: less dangerous areas? And are insurer is going to be 312 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 2: able to even afford to ensure homes in safer areas 313 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 2: if they keep being exposed to these incidents in more 314 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: dangerous areas. What I hope, and maybe that sounds naive 315 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 2: of me, but what I hope is that people can 316 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 2: be really helped through this really complicated change because it's 317 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 2: really not intuitive, and it's really new, and we love 318 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: these areas. I mean, what a gorgeous landscape, and it 319 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 2: is heartbreaking to think that we're not safe in this 320 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 2: place that we think of as the most beautiful home, imaginable, 321 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: full of nature and inspiration. And to sort of really 322 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 2: fundamentally change our relationship with how we think about risk there. 323 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 2: We're not very good at that human beings, and that's 324 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 2: before you add in commercial pressures like the realtors. I 325 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 2: remember I started out my project, as I remember telling you, 326 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 2: during the terrible months slides in Montecito and the terrible 327 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 2: what was at the time the worst fire in California, 328 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 2: which was the Thomas Fire around the Santa Barbara and 329 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: Ohai area. I had a shocking experience during that when 330 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 2: I saw a realtor selling the property to a new 331 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 2: customer who wasn't aware that the previous residents had been 332 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 2: killed in this mud slide and this property was really 333 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 2: where it was situated geographically because of the potential for 334 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: slides in certain you know, Santa Barbara being under very 335 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 2: steep sort of mountains that go down to the ocean, 336 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 2: and that after a fire, these hillsides can really collapse 337 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 2: in quite predictable sort of places. And so this property 338 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 2: was really very dangerous. 339 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: Boulders sliding down hills. 340 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, exactly, it does have these predictable slides. After 341 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 2: the vegetation that kind of holds the hillside together gets 342 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 2: burned off when the rains come, the boulders can kind 343 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 2: of get loose and really land on houses and sweep 344 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 2: them all the way down to the ocean. It's absolutely horrifying. 345 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 2: So I think that the way they're kind of you know, 346 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 2: the way that it all works because people have property 347 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 2: values and they want to keep things going. And obviously 348 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 2: everyone understandably is in this. But I think that we're 349 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: going to need some help, you know, so that individuals 350 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 2: are helped who are involved and impacted to really get 351 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 2: with this new reality that there are really dangerous places 352 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 2: to live that unfortunately the risk is perhaps just too 353 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 2: high now and too expensive to live in the way 354 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 2: that they might want to live right there. And there's 355 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 2: also another problem but the other opposite end of the 356 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 2: economic spectrum, which is it's not just the well resourced 357 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 2: people who have this choice of living in this most 358 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 2: spectacular part of Los Angeles, that's the hilly part that's 359 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: very far prone. It's also true that the cheaper areas 360 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 2: that California is building into, and not just California, you know, 361 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 2: looking at other states too. It's not just California, many 362 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 2: states and Canada and Maui and other countries certainly, especially 363 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 2: in Mediterranean countries, are really being impacted by these increasing fires. 364 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: So what we're seeing is that actually affordable housing further 365 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 2: out of town is also being built in these areas 366 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 2: that are hilly and fire prone. This wildland urban interface. 367 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 2: And we saw for example during COVID, where a lot 368 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 2: of people were moving further out of the cities into 369 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 2: places with more space, they were almost all moving into 370 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 2: these areas that are very fire prone. So you've kind 371 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 2: of got more rich people living in these spectacular areas 372 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: that are fire prone, and you've also got a lot 373 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: of people who are much less wealthy. For example, Paradise 374 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 2: communities or some of the communities that are much further 375 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 2: out of Los Angeles where a lot of the more 376 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 2: affordable homes are being built, and developers are building huge 377 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 2: amounts of homes there because there's a lot of people 378 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 2: that want homes in California. But unfortunately that development is 379 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 2: into exactly the areas that might be affordable now but 380 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: aren't going to be ensurable and are really prone to 381 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 2: burning soon. So I really hope that we can get 382 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 2: our heads around this, because unfortunately the fires are not. 383 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: Going to stop. Filmmaker Lucy Walker. If you're enjoying this conversation, 384 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: tell a friend and be sure to follow Here's the 385 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you get 386 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,959 Speaker 1: your podcasts. When we come back, Lucy Walker discusses the 387 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: most recent devastation to befall Los Angeles and why she 388 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: feels the twenty twenty five fires feel like LA's own 389 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: nine to eleven. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to 390 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: Here's the Thing. After the most recent twenty twenty five 391 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: fires devastated huge parts of Greater Los Angeles, I was 392 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: curious how individual communities had been impacted. I asked Lucy 393 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: Walker if she's noticed they shared sense of grief among 394 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: residents across LA. 395 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 2: I have never felt this city more united and that 396 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 2: spirit of nine to eleven. Actually it was ironic because 397 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 2: sort of after the fires, I had to go to 398 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: New York for this awards show and they gave me 399 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 2: hotel room number nine to eleven, and I looked at 400 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 2: them and I thought, that is exactly what I feel like. 401 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 2: This is Los Angeles is nine to eleven. And what's beautiful, 402 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 2: I do think, and may it last, is this really 403 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 2: open hearted feeling of just infinite kindness and compassion for 404 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 2: those caught up in it. So many people affected, so 405 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 2: many people know, so many people affected. It's absolutely overwhelming. 406 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: Almost like everybody knows somebody. Are you on the east 407 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: side of the West side. 408 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 2: I'm in sort of southern Santa Monica on the Venice 409 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 2: border and an area I never thought could burn Ocean flats. Yes, 410 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 2: I'm exactly in Ocean Park, So I'm a good sort 411 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 2: of five miles from where the far perimeter in the 412 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 2: Palisades was. But my experience that first night when the 413 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 2: fires erupted and I'd been watching them, and I'd been 414 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 2: like five hours ahead of the news because I was 415 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: looking at the winds and I knew what we're up 416 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 2: against and nobody could get planes in the air to 417 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 2: see it. But just from following X and radio traffic 418 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 2: and looking at the winds, and I just knew what 419 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 2: I was looking at, and my firefighter friends just this 420 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: horrifying feeling of knowing what we were in for and 421 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 2: watching an unfold. But there was this moment that night 422 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 2: when I looked out of my window and it was 423 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: orange and I smelled smoke, and the wind was knocking 424 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 2: you flat if you walked outside your door. And I 425 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 2: found myself for the first time in that position of thinking, 426 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 2: oh grief, I'm going to have to figure out what 427 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 2: I need to take. And I am in the opposite. 428 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 2: If there was an area in Los Angeles that would 429 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 2: be the lowest fire risk, that's where I live. And 430 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 2: I'm a good you know, four or five miles from 431 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 2: the hills here, and yet even here because these sort 432 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 2: of ember driven windstorm type events, you know, once those 433 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 2: embers get going and those kinds of winds, you know, 434 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 2: there's kind of no stopping it. And I was sort 435 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 2: of paranoid and traumatized to sort of be afraid of thinking. 436 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 2: I didn't really think it would get this far, because 437 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 2: if it got this far, you know, it'd been sort 438 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 2: of the whole city would have been at risk, but 439 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 2: to actually have to go through for the first time, 440 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 2: for myself that situation, and I think most people in 441 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 2: Los Angeles had that experience, was like, oh God, could 442 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 2: it get here? And how many people do I know? 443 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 2: And so many people have friends living with them now 444 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,159 Speaker 2: who are helping people. So many people have stepped into 445 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 2: that role. And that's obviously what's beautiful about these disasters, 446 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 2: and that my prayer is that there are gifts in 447 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 2: this for people. And I did film people not just 448 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 2: during the fires and the immediate horrific aftermath, but on 449 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: the long term for the next couple of years following, 450 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 2: and have kept following up with them even since filming. 451 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 2: And the beautiful thing of course humans being resilient. You know, 452 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 2: our movie ends with the wedding of two people who 453 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 2: would not have come together had it not been for 454 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 2: their fire. And so I hope that there will be 455 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 2: gifts in this, even for the people that at this 456 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: point just feel so overwhelmed with the grief of what 457 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 2: they've lost. 458 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: Are people out there are their beliefs that the power 459 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: authority was indeed involved in this in terms of the 460 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,199 Speaker 1: arcing and the where the origin of the fire was. 461 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: Do they think that that might be a suspect? Is 462 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: that still being discussed. 463 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 2: I think that it does seem like that's being discussed. 464 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 2: And I will say from my observations is that the 465 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 2: learnings about, you know, what causes the fires and what 466 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 2: went wrong, sometimes they're really slow to come out, and 467 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 2: that can be frustrating for people who you know, in 468 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 2: their anger and grief, very natural, but you know, the 469 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 2: impulse is to point fingers sooner. And what I've observed 470 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 2: is that the firefighters and especially are very good at 471 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 2: being incredibly accountable and responsible, and even when it's tough 472 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 2: to sort of realize mistakes were made and to discuss failings, 473 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,959 Speaker 2: they do it unflinchingly, and they do it because their 474 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 2: own lives are at stake. 475 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: I'm not even referring to the fire. I'm talking about 476 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: the electric company. 477 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 2: The electric companies are slower. I would say, to get 478 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,719 Speaker 2: into it, but I hope that it does seem like 479 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 2: the story, even with the electric companies, is that they 480 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 2: will be held to the fire. I guess can I 481 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 2: use that pun I do think that you know, it 482 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 2: does seem like people are going through the evidence pretty thoroughly. 483 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 2: The one thing that I'll say that's kind of a 484 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 2: bigger point, though, is that things will burn even if 485 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 2: we had no electric companies, no matter what you do, 486 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 2: no matter what you do. When the European the first 487 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 2: European boat sailed up to the coast of Los Angeles, 488 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,479 Speaker 2: and it's kind of how I opened my movie. It 489 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 2: was on fire. They called it the Bay of Smoke 490 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 2: because it was a fire. Now, there weren't any electric 491 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 2: companies here when the Europeans first sales out. Obviously that 492 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 2: would have been a lightning strike probably right. 493 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: It's meant to burn. 494 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 2: It's meant to burn. It is a fire landscape, whether 495 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 2: it's a firework or a cigarette butt, or just the 496 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: way that the sun magnifies through somebody's discarded glasses. You know, 497 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 2: there's a gender reveal party that winds up setting a 498 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 2: big at fire and killing somebody that we show in 499 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 2: the movie, And so there's always going to be something. 500 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 2: And the other thing that I observed, which is kind 501 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 2: of hard to get your brain around, but true, is 502 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 2: that it's a disaster and things are going to go wrong, 503 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 2: and that might be a water reservoir, or it might 504 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 2: be an evacuation system. It might be a bad call 505 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 2: that in retrospect turned out to be not the right one, 506 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 2: but was made under juress by a firefighter who had 507 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 2: to just go one way or the other in the 508 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 2: moment and has to make decisions that in our jobs, 509 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 2: you know, I'm not faced with those kind of life 510 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 2: and death decisions in the course of my work. Right, 511 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 2: So it's a disaster, and things will sometimes go awry 512 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 2: even when they're pretty well set up. And ironically, they 513 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 2: had a really robust evacuation plan that they'd worked on 514 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 2: and rehearsed that you kind of if the fire hadn't 515 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 2: come through and killed eighty six people, you would have 516 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 2: textbooks and they'd point at paradise and say they were 517 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 2: well prepared. But things go wrong. That's actually the nature 518 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 2: of accidents and disasters. And so I sort of had 519 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 2: this bigger picture where, yes, there's going to be failings, 520 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 2: Yes we definitely need to learn from them, but we 521 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 2: also perhaps need to face into the very challenging reality. 522 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: Do you have animals. 523 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 2: I don't because I travel the time as a documentary 524 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 2: because but I love animals, and my heart's been absolutely 525 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,239 Speaker 2: broken for my friends that have lost their animals, but 526 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 2: I feel lucky to be surrounded by these people with 527 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 2: great spirit. I was just at physical therapy and I 528 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 2: saw a friend of mine who lost everything in the 529 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 2: Palisades and has three kids and has this great stoic attitude, 530 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 2: you know. But he said to me, I don't think 531 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 2: we're going to rebuild in the Palisades. I kind of 532 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 2: like Venice now. I don't think we can do it 533 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 2: the same way anymore. And I do think that this 534 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,479 Speaker 2: could be the moment which when my film came out 535 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, I don't think we were there yet, 536 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 2: but I think this episode has been so hallacious. I'm 537 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 2: really glad for you for having the vision to have 538 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 2: this conversation four years ago and then to revisit it now. 539 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 2: And I think more people may be actually looking for 540 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 2: this kind of information and conversation, and it may be 541 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 2: time to have a conversation that we really don't want 542 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 2: to have. And I get it, but I think that 543 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 2: we will be better off the sooner that we can 544 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 2: get our heads around it. 545 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: My thoughts are with you and stay safe. 546 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 2: I'm so grateful for this outpouring of love for Los 547 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 2: Angeles and for you for highlighting the hopefully good information 548 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 2: that the film contains. And it's really that's the sweetest 549 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 2: thing about this is to feel your support and I 550 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,479 Speaker 2: really really appreciate doing this. 551 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: Thank you. My thanks to Lucy Walker. Her documentary about 552 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: the California wildfires, Bring Your Own Brigade, is streaming on 553 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: Paramount Plus. This episode was recorded at CDM Studios in 554 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: New York City. Were produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, 555 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: and Victoria De Martin. Our engineer is Frank Imperial and 556 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin. 557 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: Here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.