WEBVTT - Ep. 1039: Back 40 - Four Whitetail Land Mistakes To Avoid At All Costs 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:00.600 What is going on? 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.840 Welcome back to a fresh episode of Back forty. This 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:07.040 is Jake Hoefert and we have a fresh panel of 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:10.920 four guests to talk about all the different things when 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:14.320 it comes to managing whitetails. There's no shortage of advice 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.280 on what you should be doing, but sometimes the fastest 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.880 way to improve your property is knowing what mistakes to 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.080 avoid in the first place. In this episode of Back forty, 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.240 we ask the question what are the biggest white tailand 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.400 mistakes people make? And the answers cover a variety of 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:32.360 different things. So as you're building out a plan for 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.280 this upcoming season, you can whittle down your project list 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.360 that's likely very long and narrow it down based off 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:40.720 of crossing some things off that might not be worth 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.080 the time effort for energy. We have West Elks from 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.320 Illinois with real world wildlife products and chasing giants. We 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:51.600 have Steve Hanson from Iowa, Jake Ellinger from Michigan, and 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:56.200 Sam bill Horn from Wisconsin. So we are covering the 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.000 heart of the Midwest where there's a lot of deer hunters. 0:00:58.000 --> 0:00:59.760 So I hope you guys really enjoyed this episode. We're 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:02.600 going to kick things off with West Elks, who has 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.400 consulted on a lot of farms over the years the 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:09.280 scene different projects that have made a big impact on 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.440 his own personal farms and clients, and he's also seen 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.760 things that maybe are worth avoiding depending on where you're 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:17.520 at in your land journey. So we'll kick things off 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:24.800 with the west Elks. Here we go, all right. Next 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.800 up we have Wes Delks. Wes, you have traveled all 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.200 across the country. You have been on more farms than 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:38.240 I can imagine, and I think oftentimes people are thinking 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:40.000 all these different things that they can do. Right, there's 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:42.319 these so many different projects. You can go on YouTube, 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.400 you can read magazines, you can listen to podcasts, and 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:46.640 there's all these things you can do. But I want 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:50.240 to remove all the things you can do and focus 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.200 on what you need to avoid at all cost, whether 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.760 it's projects, behavioral, whatever the case may be. From you know, 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.400 folks that you've visited with, or your own personal experiences. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.160 What are the things you just simply want to avoid 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.520 at all costs that aren't worth you know, the juice 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:05.840 isn't worth the squeeze. 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.519 Yeah, good question, Jake, Thanks for the opportunity to be 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.520 here and it's funny you asked this is I made 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:18.200 a post at the end of my consulting season after 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:21.880 looking at these farms across the Midwest, and I kind 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:29.080 of identified basically three things that mistakes to avoid, and 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.960 I posted about this a few weeks ago. And first 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:41.320 and foremost is buying a farm based on habitat rather 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:42.880 than on layout. 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.160 And I see so many people. 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:52.800 That they're attracted to that property because of good looking habitat, 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:59.520 good dear sign, but that doesn't necessarily equate to the 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:01.600 potent to raise. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.480 The bar to the level that you and I want. 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:10.600 So mistake number one, I would say buying a farm 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.840 based on habitat rather than layout. You've got to have 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.720 a farm that lays out well, which to me means 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:22.359 being able to access a property from multiple different directions 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:27.760 and then having a some degree of isolation from neighboring 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.280 hunting pressure. So that would be the number one thing 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:33.720 that I would say avoid. 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:34.240 It all calls. 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.840 So even if even if there's property with you know, 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.240 a two out of ten access, but you know ten 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.160 out of ten deer, can you break this rule or 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:44.200 is it hard and fast for you? 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:47.920 I would say that. 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:54.320 It's more important what surrounds a property than what lays 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:59.320 inside a property's boundaries. And if I've got a two 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:04.720 out of ten access, but it connects to a property 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:09.760 that's owned by a science company or a nuclear power plant, 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.720 and there's five hundred acre no hunting area and we've 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:17.960 got one sided access, we might take that one sided 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.400 access and hunt it with one wind direction and go 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:25.880 in there under very specific conditions because we know we're 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:27.679 connected to something really good. 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:29.640 So yeah, I would say. 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:34.320 I would break that rule if it's a property where 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:37.359 maybe I've got some other options. Maybe I've got a 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.920 home farm that I'm putting a lot of effort into managing, 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:42.560 and i can hunt it with a lot of different 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.600 wind directions. But then I've got this other farm down 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:49.039 the road that it's a two out of ten for access, 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.360 but it's connected to a sanctuary, and I'm just gonna 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.200 hunt it with the northwest wind, Then yeah, maybe I 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:57.440 would be interested in that. 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.280 So, I mean, it's for people that are hearing, are 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.480 listening to this, I feel like that would simplify the process, 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:07.120 right If that is from what you've seen on many 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.320 many farms of you know, the best ones do have 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:13.000 multiple sided access, And obviously you're in the business of 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:17.680 developing plans, which includes increasing the habitat and developing that. 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.400 It's like, figure out what you can change and then 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:22.840 what you can't change, and what you can't change is 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.720 a lot easier obviously than what you cannot Yep. 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.200 Access you're I mean, sometimes you can do things to 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.280 improve your access, but those access. 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.800 Points are normally pretty concrete. So so in. 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.559 That social media point I post I said three things. 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:45.680 I said layout was number one mistake. Number two was 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:50.200 you have to commit to a sanctuary. You gotta have 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:55.479 a sanctuary. You got to identify where that sanctuary is, 0:05:56.440 --> 0:06:00.240 commit to it. And then number three, number on three 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:07.680 mistake was not having nearly enough food. Is after looking 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:10.520 at all the farms that I've looked at, is the 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:17.640 I literally one time I have told somebody, Wow, I 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.600 think we almost have too much food here. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.240 But that just that just never happens. 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:28.120 Is h layout, commit to the sanctuary and got to 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:29.440 have ample food. 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:34.280 Yeah, well, so let's let's talk about the sanctuary itself. 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:38.719 So what how do you make a sanctuary? You know, 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.120 very good obviously sanctuary you stay out of it, you 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.440 don't go in there. You you give that to the deer. 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:44.880 You're not going to go in there and mess with it. 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.400 But in terms of maximizing those acres, because it feels 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.080 like I'm guilty of this, Like you work really hard, 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.159 you buy a farm, and you want to enjoy the 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:54.840 full purchase, but you have to you know, for a 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.320 lot of people, maybe they bought it for having, you know, 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:59.640 the best hiding possible for that specific piece. And so 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.400 you had the sanctuary. Okay, we're gonna stay out of it. Well, 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:06.520 let's say it's a giant oak ridge hickory flat that's 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.880 that's wide open. Or let's say this sanctuary is an 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.680 old pasture with cool seasoned grasses with almost snow habitat value, Like, 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.760 what is the next level to make it an attractive 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:21.119 sanctuary versus just devoid of human human pressure and also 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:23.840 probably wildlife wildlife desert potentially. 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:29.760 Yeah, Well, I'm a firm believer that cover is king, 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.720 not food. This is coming for a guy that works 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.440 for real world wildlife products. Is get to it to 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.640 do a lot with real world and I fell a 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.400 lot of food plot seed, but cover is truly king. 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.680 And when you start off with the property and identify 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:50.920 where that sanctuary is. You've got to get deer betted 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:55.160 on you, not on the neighbors, not on one property away, 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.640 you got to get them bettered on your property. And 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:03.160 in order to do that, we want to have thick, nasty, 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.280 gnarly cover free of human intrusion. 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.960 And I am a firm believer that by a time 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:10.680 a buck. 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:15.120 Gets to his fourth, fifth, sixth birthday, he's got somewhere 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.680 to go where he feels safe. And as the hunting 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:23.480 season begins and hunting pressure continues throughout the hunting season, 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.960 by the time he's reached maturity, he knows where that 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:27.920 sanctuary is. 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.240 And so we've got to identify that. 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.720 And when you buy a property that sanctuary, the cover 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:39.240 might not be very much different from the rest of 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.240 the neighbors. And in the situation that you described, you 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:47.120 have an oak and open oak hardwood. Yeah, when you 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.160 first purchased that property, we're going to have to go 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.920 into that sanctuary and cost some intrusion with these projects 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:57.760 at the beginning to make that cover different. And that 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.600 might be a timber harvest, it might be warm season 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:02.600 grass planning, might be a tree planting. 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:04.040 So there is going to be. 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:08.280 Some intrusion oftentimes with the property at the very beginning, 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:12.760 to make sure that your sanctuary is different and then 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:17.360 it's completely staying out. So get in, get those projects done, 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:18.440 and then stay out. 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:19.440 Let's run. 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.600 This is a very generic question, but hopefully it'll help 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.960 someone out there. So let's say someone has a forty 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:26.679 acre track, sixty acre track, you know something, SEB one 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:31.200 hundred acres. Obviously, the bigger the sanctuary, the better, But 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.920 is there a rule of THEMB that you try to 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.320 try to, you know, educate folks on to like man 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.040 as big as you can potentially makes the most sense, 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.080 but you really needed to be at least ten percent 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:42.920 of the property or twenty percent or five percent. 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:47.160 Yeah, A great question is and that's something that I 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:52.079 see a lot of times with sanctuaries is people say 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.520 that they have a sanctuary, but they might have a 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.160 two hundred acre farm and there's this fifteen acre patch 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.480 of multi floor roads that they don't go into, and 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:05.880 that is their sanctuary. I want to devote as much 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:11.560 acreage as possible for sanctuary, and the smaller a property is, 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.840 the more important that becomes. If you've got a forty 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:20.760 acre property, we need to vote every acre that we 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:24.760 can to sanctuary. If you've got five hundred acre property, 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.720 you can access around the perimeters of it and hunt 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:32.199 the edges of it. But if there's an interior of 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.360 that that is I mean you might with a five 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.960 hundred acre property, if you're accessing around the primer, you 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.319 still may have a three four hundred acre sized sanctuary 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:46.320 and intrude off the property from the property lines into 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.520 the interior of your property a little bit, but you 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:50.360 still have a massive sanctuary. 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:52.480 Whereas with a case with a. 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:57.400 Smaller property, Yeah, it does not take much to ruin 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.880 a forty acre property. So with the smaller ones, you 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.360 got to commit every acre you can perimeter access. 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:05.120 Yeah. 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.480 And then so the last one you mentioned, you know, 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.760 out of a lot of visits, there was maybe one 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.720 or two where they had enough food. So when I 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.520 think of food, I think of obviously destination food sources. 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:18.480 I think of natural brows. I think of you know 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.560 different you know, there's deer eat a lot of different things. Right, 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.920 when you say not enough food, is it simply low 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:29.679 quality brows or is it also just simply not enough 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.520 destination food to to have? 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:33.320 Do you not leave? 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.640 I mean when I said that I really meant quantity 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.959 as far as acreage, but quality as well as far 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:47.720 as diversity. For comparison, on my property, we got a 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:49.280 two hundred acre farm here. 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.239 And a lot of that is a wide. 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:56.040 Open agg fields and cattle pasture that is not deer habitat. 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:00.720 And I've got about thirteen acres of food, and that 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:02.280 is enough food to get me. 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:05.160 Through until spring greenup each year. 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:12.199 And that thirteen acres is diverse, meaning it's got twenty 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.640 one different I counted the other day and in my plots, 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:20.040 I've got twenty one different species and the first twelve 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.080 I get to twelve really quickly with deadly. 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:27.720 With the fall plots, they got twelve right there. 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:34.480 Then corn, soybeans, clover, chickory, alfalfa, sorghum. So I mean, 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.480 it's twenty one sounds like a lot, but it really 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.600 it's not that hard to have fifteen plus different species 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:45.200 in your plots. But you've got to have enough to 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:49.640 get to spring greenup. And a lot of times I'm 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:54.000 looking at farms throughout the winter months and I want 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:57.200 to evaluate how much food did I have at the 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.480 end of winter, because if I get to the end of. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.000 March and I'm out of food. 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.520 I want to either reduce the mouths that are on 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.960 my property, take out some doze, or increase the acres 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.360 of food that I provide. And that's easier said than 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:18.040 done on some properties more than others. But I want 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.360 to have plenty of food plot acreage to get my 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.160 dear herd all the way through the winter months till 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:24.920 spring green up. 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:27.480 Awesome, Well there's the answer. 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:29.480 Those are the three things you gave us some extra 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.160 ones to avoid it all costs, and I feel like 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:35.360 if you just focus on those three, you'll find I 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:39.240 would imagine quite a bit more success and just you know, 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.440 you'd be working much closer to the goals that you 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.040 likely have. I mean, those are three really good things 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:48.320 to focus on that'll help a lot. Yep, Wes, thank 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.640 you so much. Where can people follow along with what 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:52.679 you have going on or how people can get a 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:53.720 get in contact with you? 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:58.319 I would just listen to the Chason Chasing Giants podcast 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.559 with Don Higgins and Terry Peer, or you can get 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.480 me on social media on Instagram or Facebook just at 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:06.920 my name, Wesley Delks. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.280 All right, next up, we have Steve Hanson from Iowa 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:13.920 and Steve has been a real estate professional for a 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:15.960 very long time. He's worked on a lot of his 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:20.320 own farms, He's helped friends clients along the way, and 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.840 we get his opinion on something that you can disavoid 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:24.640 at all costs for the time being. 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:26.960 So let's kick it off here. It was Steve Hanson. 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:31.120 All right, Steve, welcome to back forty. In the world 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.560 of white tail projects, there is so many different things 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:38.280 that you can do. The list could be hundreds or 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:43.040 thousands of items long. But I think for this point, 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.400 what are the things to either delay or avoid at 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.000 all costs, just it's not worth the effort, or a 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.720 project that maybe gets misused and you need to have 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:54.760 the parameters in order to utilize it. So I know 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:56.760 a lot of different things there, but I want to 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:57.840 hear what jumps out to your mind. 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:00.360 You know the one that I see them the most, 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.840 that people, you know, everybody seems to want to do 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:09.040 and I've seen probably ninety five percent failures and almost 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.360 none make it to what I would call total completion. 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:15.720 And people aren't gonna like this. But it's fruit tree planning. 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.720 You know that that one there just for the amount 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:24.880 of risk, money, time, to final reward. I've just seen 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.920 that fail so many times. That's one if you do 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.040 have it, or you're going to use it in your playbook, 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.960 I would absolutely put it towards the back of your planning, 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.520 meaning once you've it's a micro project, you've got to 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:40.360 fish fix all the macro projects first, otherwise you're you know, 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:42.360 But it seems to be one people want to do 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:46.000 early and that I've I've probably done it half a 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.560 dozen times myself. Some were big projects where we spent 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.560 three thousand bucks on trees and amendments and you know, 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.000 a couple good spring days doing it and in the 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.000 end to have zero survival. I'm talking five years ten 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.480 down the line. So and I've seen that over and 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:03.040 over again. 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:05.920 Yeah, you will make some people up. 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.760 Some people just love fruit trees and they love the 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.200 idea of them, but I feel like you really have 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.880 to have the ability to baby them. I've planted probably 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:16.640 twenty fruit trees here at my house, and I've had 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.040 of those twenty, I got some that are doing great, 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.560 and I have some that are doing really poorly. And 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.440 that's with me living here too, right, And I think 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:25.600 that's the challenge. 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.360 Yeah, and I would say that is part of the challenge. 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.800 We deal with a lot here with out of the 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.280 area landowners. They may be non residents, they may be 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.280 from Des Moines there an hour and a half two 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.560 hours away. I would say that would be the one 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:41.000 thing if if you are full time, have the ability 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:42.640 to be at your farm full time, or it's your 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.200 place of residence where you can literally spoon feed them, 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:49.120 water them, spray them. The amount of spray you need 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.120 to actually do it right is mind boggling. I mean 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:56.880 the different dormant oil sprayings and you know, stuff for bugs. 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.760 And then the other reason we probably struggle here more 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:03.520 than most people would is and there are blight resistance varieties, 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.560 but we have a lot of cedar trees, eastern red cedars, 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:08.800 and the cedar apple rust. 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.119 Is one that really we really battle here. 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:13.600 So and the other thing that people seem to forget 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.600 about apple trees, they're not native. You know, you're truly 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.400 planning a non native species, which everybody loves to jump 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.720 on me scant as, oh it's not native, blah blah blah. 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.439 It's like, what about your apple tree? What about alfalfa? 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.880 You know, it's that part of it's funny too. But yeah, 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:29.840 that's probably one that I see the most, that I 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.760 see fail the most often, and is fairly expensive. 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.119 It's expensive and it takes time, and to buy the 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.080 tea post, to buy the fence, you know, you have 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:40.960 the cost of the tree, and then you add everything 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:45.119 in there additionally, like it does add up. Is there 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:50.200 an instance where there was a random apple tree in 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.800 a cattle pasture somewhere in Iowa or something like that 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.600 that was just like this divine location for deer hunting too, 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.960 because I feel like that might that would potentially sway 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.600 your opinion if there was an example like that. 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.280 I have seen a few examples of that. In every 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:10.080 case they were around abandoned homesteads. But I mean very 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:14.480 very very few more pairs than apples you know, that 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:19.840 have persisted naturally or you know, from being planted as 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.560 a homestead tree twenty thirty forty years ago. You know, 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:28.280 I personally haven't seen one where I thought, wow, this 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:32.720 is really putting out the apples like we would hope to. Yeah, 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:34.119 and we've had a few, you know, I've had a 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.560 few landowners that literally it's almost like their side hobby 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.520 as much as they're into hunting. As much as they're 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.679 into hunting, they're into you know, maintaining their orchard or 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.280 stuff like that. And I get that. I'm speaking to 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.119 the context of simply, hey, i've got this hunting farm, 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:52.840 I've got X amount of dollars I can spend. Where 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.480 is the best use of my resources? And that's that's 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.520 why I would put that on the list of you know, 0:18:57.720 --> 0:18:59.480 very low on the list or not on the list 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:03.520 for sure. So and we've had everything kill them, I 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:05.280 mean everything you name it. 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:09.560 So well, yeah, you have rabbits can girdle them, and 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:11.520 you can just have I mean there's you can have 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:13.879 a raccoon climb up on and snap off a giant branch. 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:16.160 I mean right, We've had that happen. 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.760 We've had fires, people burning adjacent switchgrass get away and 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.240 kill them. We've had that. We've had some overspray di 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:27.439 camba from crops being sprayed, not even adjacent, just in 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.199 the area. It's they're a very sensitive plant, you know. 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:32.840 It's I think of them as a permanent tomato plant, 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:34.720 like any Everything wants to kill them. 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:35.640 It's it's crazy. 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.760 So, yeah, okay, you mentioned very low on the list 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.600 or not on the list. Will there be a point 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:44.920 where you think you'll put out a twenty you know, 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:49.199 a twenty to forty apple and pear grove on a 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.919 permanent farm of yours, just just to out of sheer 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:57.920 boredom and experimental of I'm gonna baby these things and 0:19:57.960 --> 0:19:59.280 I'm gonna see if it's worthwhile. 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:01.919 Yeah, you know, I'm building a new place at my 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:06.480 big farm, a new shop and very permanent type, you know, 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:11.080 part of my plan going forward. It's an old cattle farm, 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:13.880 but it was a very well cared for catle farm, 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.960 so there's actually city water or what we call rural water, 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.240 miles of water lines on that farm. So I did 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:23.520 think about that about one of these areas where we 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.960 took these drinkers out, is converting that to some type 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:30.919 of orchard and then you know tree planning, because I 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:32.840 have access to water, and I could put it in 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.200 a pretty good spot from a hunting location. But that's 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:37.960 a very unique and it would be close to where 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.040 I'm going to spend quite a bit of time. But 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:44.399 I also I would high fence the entire area. So 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:46.680 if it's a half acre, I'm gonna do eight foot 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:51.440 fence around the whole thing. Yeah, until it gets established. 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:54.080 So you know, so maybe that's five years, maybe that's 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:56.320 ten years. I don't know what, you know, the growth 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.479 rate and it's going to depend on species and stuff. 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:01.639 But yeah, yeah, will do one again. It's almost like, 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:04.840 you know, by saying this, I've sort of thrown down 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:08.080 the gauntlet of the challenge and I accept that challenge myself. 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:11.320 And that's probably the reason I haven't had the success 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.159 or seen the success. I think the people that do 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.040 it really put a lot of effort into it, like really, 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:20.040 really really. And we had a good friend or a 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:24.360 friend from Pennsylvania who had a huge farm here in Iowa. 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:28.280 And he had an amazing orchard back in Pennsylvania and 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.520 an amazing orchard here in Iowa, so I know it 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:34.200 could be done. But he was almost like, like I said, 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:37.360 that was as much his hobby as was hunting itself. 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:48.000 So yeah, I think those are all very fair things. 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:49.800 I sold an apple orchard a couple of years ago, 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:51.359 and I was talking to a guy that that was 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:54.280 his living he ran an orchard in Illinois, and I 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.600