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Speaker 1: Pushkin. There's a word for autism in the Maudi language,

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Speaker 1: takei watana. It means in one's own time and space,

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Speaker 1: and that's a particularly fitting description for the artists. Susan

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Speaker 1: Takahadangi King Susan is a seventy one year old, non

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Speaker 1: speaking autistic woman. Her middle name means precious one in

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Speaker 1: Terrau Maui, the language of the indigenous people of Ato,

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Speaker 1: New Zealand. That her parents gave her that name more

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Speaker 1: than seven decades ago is prescient. They must have known

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Speaker 1: Susan was one of a kind. Susan is an artist

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Speaker 1: in every sense of the word. She can draw exact

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Speaker 1: copies of old time cartoon characters from memory. She can

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Speaker 1: create perfect sweeping arcs without the help of a protractor.

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Speaker 1: And she can and has gone through fallow periods where

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Speaker 1: she makes no work at all. More recently, though, Susan's

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Speaker 1: work has come into its own and is now being

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Speaker 1: exhibited and collected all over the world after decades of obscurity.

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Speaker 1: Because Susan doesn't speak or use any adaptive communication technology,

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Speaker 1: we weren't able to interview her, but she did listen

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Speaker 1: to a couple of episodes of the Loudest Girl in

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Speaker 1: the World and was also lulled to sleep by the show. Amazingly,

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Speaker 1: she made a piece of art inspired by what she heard. Truly,

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Speaker 1: it was an honor to see my story interpreted visually

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Speaker 1: by such a talented artist. And for a limited time,

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Speaker 1: we're giving away prince of Susan's Loudest Girl inspired art.

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Speaker 1: Go to our website pushkin dot fm slash Loudest Girl

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Speaker 1: to enter our give way. Now. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: Susan liked our show, but her sister, Petita Cole, who

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Speaker 1: serves as her manager, told me that Susan was engaged

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Speaker 1: and inspired at least before the show made her sleepy.

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Speaker 1: In this very special bonus episode of The Loudest Girl

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Speaker 1: in the World, we talked to Petita about how Susan

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Speaker 1: blossomed as an artist and found her creative voice. It's

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Speaker 1: the story of a disabled artist's genius flourishing late in life,

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Speaker 1: but it is also the story of a sisterly bond

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Speaker 1: for the ages. My name is Petita Coole and I'm

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Speaker 1: Susan's sister. I'm ninetyears younger than her, so Susan Kahani

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Speaker 1: King is my sister. She was born in nineteen fifty

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Speaker 1: one in ti Arahai, New Zealand, and Susan is mostly

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Speaker 1: known for her amazing at work as a young kid.

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Speaker 1: From around about the age three, she began to lose

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Speaker 1: her speech, which was almost non existent at the age

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Speaker 1: of five and pretty near gone by the age of seven.

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Speaker 1: And it appears that as her as her speech was

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Speaker 1: going her her drawing came up. One thing loses in

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Speaker 1: the other games. I guess it's a compensation. I don't know, um,

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Speaker 1: but obviously there's a real skill and passion there that

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Speaker 1: has driven that that output. And so what were your parents?

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Speaker 1: What did they do? Were they? Were they born in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand? Um? Did? How did they end up there? Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to get a sense of your your

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Speaker 1: your geography, your family geography, right, Yeah, Mom and dad

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Speaker 1: met in Tara huh in a small town in New Zealand,

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Speaker 1: and married and actually lived in an old tent the

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Speaker 1: back of the family home, a little al army tent

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Speaker 1: for about a year or less than a year, something

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Speaker 1: like that, and lived in Tiartoha until nineteen sixty when

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Speaker 1: the ast to Auckland, the city. Basically when we shifted

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Speaker 1: from Tararoha to Auckland. That was basically because there was

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Speaker 1: no place for Susan in the small town of Taraha

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Speaker 1: as far as schools were concerned. She did go to

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Speaker 1: a school when she was five, and she was there

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Speaker 1: for a couple of months and then the teacher said, look,

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Speaker 1: you need to get her hearing test. You need to

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Speaker 1: get you know, you need to get her as sorted. Basically,

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Speaker 1: go do some tests and things. So she needed to

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Speaker 1: go to Auckland for that. There was a school for

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Speaker 1: people with disabilities starting up in Auckland, and so the

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Speaker 1: family shifted so that she could attend that school. They

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Speaker 1: called an Intellectually Handicapped school. It was called IHC. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what did specialist doctors say about Susan at the time,

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Speaker 1: How did they diagnose her? How did they determine she

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Speaker 1: should go to a different school, a special school? Like

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Speaker 1: what what were they saying about her at the time

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Speaker 1: when she went and had the tests. Basically, the top

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Speaker 1: child psychologist in New Zealand at that time had his

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Speaker 1: reporting and I can't remember exactly so I can't quote,

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Speaker 1: but basically his summary was it's probably a virus. She

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Speaker 1: might be better if she isn't. Don't worry. There are

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Speaker 1: institutions for people like this. There are hundreds of them.

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Speaker 1: So it was basically the recommendation was, if it doesn't work,

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Speaker 1: you can just put her in one of those places. Oh,

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Speaker 1: which of course was unthinkable for our parents because you know,

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Speaker 1: Susan's there, you know, loved daughter, and they will embrace

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Speaker 1: her and support her in the journey, but not sending

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Speaker 1: her off to some unknown thing for that. So basically

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Speaker 1: the normal mainstream professionals had nothing to offer. They basically

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Speaker 1: said come back in a couple of years time, but

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Speaker 1: there was no supports or no sort of recommendations really,

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Speaker 1: So then our parents were kind of like, well maybe

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Speaker 1: alternative practitioners, you know, so go to a a what

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Speaker 1: do you call it, like a naturopathect doctor or yeah.

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Speaker 1: And also the where you get message yet sort of thing. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it sort of like an acupuncture acupressure or sometimes Chinese

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Speaker 1: medicine or Eastern medicine or something. Yeah, that's right, to

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Speaker 1: relax her back, just a relaxation thing like that. And

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Speaker 1: then there was also color therapy they tried at some stage,

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Speaker 1: an irodologist. There was a palm reader. There was somebody

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Speaker 1: who I think they called it a radio thesis. It's

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Speaker 1: like radioactive waves. And he had m he said, it's

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Speaker 1: the cosmic circle. It's the water stream that is near

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Speaker 1: your home. You need to shift her position of her

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Speaker 1: bed in the room and put the pillow at the

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Speaker 1: other end, and then surely everything will be right after that.

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Speaker 1: It's the cosmic circle. And then there was another one

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Speaker 1: who said, with regard to Susan losing her speech, and

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Speaker 1: they said to mum, well have you ever said shut up?

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Speaker 1: And it's like, well maybe, they said, well even when

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Speaker 1: she's in the womb, did you ever say shut up?

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Speaker 1: Or well I could have if you know, well, then

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Speaker 1: that's it. It's your fault. You've basically put a curse.

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Speaker 1: So um, you know, one thing to another. Basically, there

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Speaker 1: were no answers, there were no supports. I mean even

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Speaker 1: the church, the Sunday school that they went to, they

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Speaker 1: told her not to come anymore because she had stopped talking.

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Speaker 1: But she did actually sing. I have heard of that

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Speaker 1: with other people with autism as well, that there's something

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Speaker 1: where although you don't speak, you might sing. And I

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Speaker 1: don't ever remember Susan's singing with words, but I do

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Speaker 1: remember her humming so but of course, you know, she'd

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Speaker 1: go to Sunday school and she would sing like everyone else.

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Speaker 1: But then when they stopped, she carried on, so like

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Speaker 1: you can imagine, it would be a bit annoying, like oh,

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Speaker 1: you know. So basically they said she couldn't she couldn't

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Speaker 1: come anymore, you know, which upset her greatly. So she

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Speaker 1: couldn't go to Sunday school, she couldn't go to school.

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Speaker 1: And then she was at home and she would she

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Speaker 1: had a large tricycle actually a three wheeler, and it

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Speaker 1: was quite cold, it's quite big, and she would just

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Speaker 1: go off for miles and this little kid past all

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Speaker 1: the streets. But you know, and she did run away

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Speaker 1: from home a few times as a kid, went up,

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Speaker 1: went up the mountain, and apparently she did get on

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Speaker 1: a bus and went all the way to Hamilton from

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Speaker 1: Tiatoha as well. She didn't run away. She was a wanderer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she was a bit of a wanderer. But I guess

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Speaker 1: if you have limitations and you've got a strong a

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Speaker 1: strong will, and it's like, well I'll sort myself out right, right.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a sense of how Susan got exposed

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Speaker 1: to making art, you know. I mean obviously all kids

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Speaker 1: or most kids have access to pens and paper and

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Speaker 1: just naturally do it all and express themselves visually. But

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Speaker 1: do you have a sense of how that happened for

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Speaker 1: sus and how that became an outlet. I think that

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Speaker 1: it's within her anyway, and then that was nurtured. So

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Speaker 1: you know, when I look at her drawings from when

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Speaker 1: she's a five year old, and she's really exploring shapes

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Speaker 1: and ideas, and you know, it's not just the odd

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Speaker 1: picture here or there, she's really exploring them, exploring what

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Speaker 1: she's thinking, for example, characters like Donald Duck and just

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Speaker 1: really exploring the furrowed brow and the bow tie and

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Speaker 1: the beak, just details, just and playing around with it,

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Speaker 1: even at a very young age, almost as if you're

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Speaker 1: a UNI student doing you know, your student UNI doing

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Speaker 1: a thesis on whatever, and you have a plan to

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Speaker 1: do such and such, and you do it. But it's

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Speaker 1: like that sense of I don't know if it's a

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Speaker 1: compulsion or a it's more than a compulsion. It's just

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Speaker 1: a real sensitivity to it and a talent. But I

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Speaker 1: think too that possibly the encouragement also goes a long way,

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Speaker 1: you know, when she was staying at my grandmother's place. Incredible, really,

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Speaker 1: the details that Grandma has noted. For example, look, I

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Speaker 1: I spilt a bottle of cream today, and now she's

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Speaker 1: drawn this and it had a picture of all these

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Speaker 1: buckets of paint all spilled over all the colors going around.

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Speaker 1: So it's like a fantastical version of what Grandma did.

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Speaker 1: And you know Grandma's experience of dropping the cream, but

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Speaker 1: for her to make that connection and then to document

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Speaker 1: it at a young age, when Susan was just five

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Speaker 1: or six. And then Grandma's written in her notes you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm keeping all her drawings and putting dates

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Speaker 1: on them because she'll become famous one day or you know,

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Speaker 1: like that that real that she had. Yes, yes, she says,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to show them to a person in the arts,

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Speaker 1: you know, who can recognize this talent. And so she

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Speaker 1: had this understanding or appreciation of Susan's works even at

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Speaker 1: a very young age. Yeah. Grandma also had a lot

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Speaker 1: of interests, and she would look and think closely, you know,

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Speaker 1: at a lot of things, like she also had a

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Speaker 1: real interest in the development of the motorways, back then

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Speaker 1: in buildings, and so she's got all these photos slides

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Speaker 1: upon slides that she's actually gone out deliberately to take

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Speaker 1: a record, photographic record of the development of the motorways

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Speaker 1: in the roads. And then she would even go back

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Speaker 1: to get it. I've got the I've got it from

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Speaker 1: this angle. I need to go somewhere else and get

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Speaker 1: it from that angle, or get it in the morning

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Speaker 1: or the end of the day light, you know. So

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Speaker 1: there's this fixation on detail and architecture and construction, and

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Speaker 1: in very very often Susan would come with her on

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Speaker 1: those trips. So it's kind of like Grandma's almost encyclopedic

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Speaker 1: interest in so many different aspects going on. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Grandma sounds a little artistic, you know, yeah, probably, Like

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Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, probably. I

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Speaker 1: mean those are very particular interests and the sort of

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Speaker 1: recording of all of those. But I think that it's

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Speaker 1: so interesting because it sounds like, you know, with a

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Speaker 1: with a granny like that, she was very open to

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Speaker 1: whatever Susan needed or whatever her abilities, Like, she wasn't

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Speaker 1: put off by the fact that Susan didn't speak. She

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Speaker 1: was interested in her art. She was interested in bringing

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Speaker 1: her around to the things that she was doing, Like

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Speaker 1: she was encouraging it seems like, or and supportive. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: very much so, and very aware and accommodating of Susan's anxieties,

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Speaker 1: particularly as a young child. Yeah, anxieties of all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things sounds and just Susan kind of at a

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Speaker 1: young age going quite wild, like shaking her head, rubbing

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Speaker 1: her food all over her face and on the floor,

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Speaker 1: and you know, just being like hyperactive and shouting or

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Speaker 1: just not settling at night, still being up at till

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Speaker 1: midnight sort of thing, just can't settle her. So there

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Speaker 1: was quite a bit of stuff going on as a

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Speaker 1: young child for susan anxieties, and so it was really

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Speaker 1: nice for her to have this time out and to

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Speaker 1: be herself. When do you figure people started to realize, oh,

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Speaker 1: this person has a lot of talent, and like when

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Speaker 1: when was Susan's work, you know, when did it begin

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Speaker 1: to have public exposure? At some point it flipped over

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Speaker 1: where people actually you know, took notice. Back in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy would have been Susan's first splash in the news.

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Speaker 1: So what happened with the intellectually handys Kept school. They

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Speaker 1: have a door to door collection, you know, every every year,

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Speaker 1: and so they would basically profile one of the attendees

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Speaker 1: each year to profile the HC who they are and

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Speaker 1: what they do and this here's a collect opportunity for

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Speaker 1: you to donate to them. And so in nineteen seventies

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Speaker 1: Susan was profiled and so one or two of her

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Speaker 1: drawings featured an a full page ad in the big

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Speaker 1: you know, New Zealand tyrold or Auckland Staff whatever it

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Speaker 1: was back then. And also at that time some of

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Speaker 1: Susan's drawings were sent by the intellectually Handicapped school to

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Speaker 1: London for an auction. There an exhibition and an auction.

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Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, we didn't know prior to that. There was

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Speaker 1: no request or you know, they just went. And then

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Speaker 1: several months later or whatever, our parents received a letter

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Speaker 1: from the school to say, hey, we sent some of

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Speaker 1: you know, Susan's works and some were sold. So here's

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Speaker 1: five pounds. So here's five pounds and they were sold

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Speaker 1: to a member of the public. I mean that's amazing

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Speaker 1: because you know they weren't thinking of this as professional art.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've seen this a million times. Right, this

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Speaker 1: this happens a lot, is like autism art programs and

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Speaker 1: it's put on by parents and it's like like, look

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Speaker 1: what the kids can do, and then people buy them

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Speaker 1: to be nice and to raise money, and it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like a little art show. But like here you

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Speaker 1: have a world class talent and it's so that they

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Speaker 1: probably didn't know that. I mean, it's weird to think like,

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Speaker 1: or it must be frustrating to think like if there

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Speaker 1: was a way for her talent to be recognized earlier

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Speaker 1: in a wider world, would things have been different for her?

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Speaker 1: Or how would her life be different? Yeah, exactly. The

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Speaker 1: world autism never came on the radar the whole several

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Speaker 1: decades that she was at the HC School for the

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Speaker 1: entire time. It's only in recent years that that came

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Speaker 1: to the family's awareness. I mean, my first teaching job

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and two was at a disability school

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Speaker 1: and it was only when I was interacting and working

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Speaker 1: with people with autism that I kind of thought, whoa, um,

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Speaker 1: I get it, Susan must be autistic, and it's like

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Speaker 1: and then I went and said to mum's Mum, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure Susan must be autistic. Mum goes what's that? Um?

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Speaker 1: And it had never been on the radar. It's like

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Speaker 1: what what's this? And of course as soon as you

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Speaker 1: realize that, then it's like, oh okay, so you can

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Speaker 1: start sort of joining the dots and thinking, okay, so

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Speaker 1: um this strategy might help or now I better understand that,

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Speaker 1: because that's you know, there's just understanding and support comes

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Speaker 1: with autism. I think, right, well, it's two you you

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Speaker 1: have two kind of dueling issues here, one which is

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Speaker 1: just general understanding in support of autistic people getting an

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Speaker 1: appropriate diagnosis, getting appropriate interventions, and then the sort of

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Speaker 1: art piece of it, which is not necessarily knowing what

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Speaker 1: to do with that, not like having a lot of

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Speaker 1: resources in that way. And so I mean, obviously it

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Speaker 1: seems like, though we do not know, it has worked

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Speaker 1: out okay for Susan. She has in a very supportive family,

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Speaker 1: it seems, and has been able to flourish and make

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Speaker 1: the art that she wants and have seemingly a lot

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Speaker 1: of sort of latitude and flexibility. But there must be

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Speaker 1: a sort of for you at least, like who knows

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Speaker 1: what could have happened, Like if if the services were better,

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Speaker 1: if the understanding was better, if the language around disability

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Speaker 1: was better, all of that. Yeah, And I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean I look back and I think, well, I

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Speaker 1: think the sadest is that period where she had dropped drawing,

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Speaker 1: and that was from the early nineteen nineties. For a

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Speaker 1: long time. You would go back home and Mum's busy

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Speaker 1: doing something whatever, and Susan's just sitting there, just in

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Speaker 1: the doldrums, just you know, long face or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: you see Hi, Susan, and there's no response. It's just

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Speaker 1: I don't know, So I don't know what was going

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Speaker 1: on in her mind or you know. And I mean

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Speaker 1: Mum and Dad are great, you know, and they would

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Speaker 1: be their home and they would do what they can

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Speaker 1: to encourage her, but it's like just not going there.

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Speaker 1: It's like she was locked. I don't know whether she

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Speaker 1: locked herself in that way or just it was locked.

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Speaker 1: But I think there was a sadness there too, And

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I just don't know. I'll never know.

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Speaker 1: In around about two thousand and five, that's when I

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Speaker 1: decided Susan's and is not in a happy place. She's despondent,

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Speaker 1: she's not engaged, you know, and the contrast there also

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Speaker 1: just knowing like, there's poor Susan and look at her

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Speaker 1: amazing works. I have never been in a position where

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Speaker 1: I've actually gone to find out what actually are all

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Speaker 1: these drawings. I knew that there was stacks and stacks

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Speaker 1: of them stored away at our parents' place, you know,

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Speaker 1: in boxes and cases and rolled up in the rafters

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Speaker 1: and all sorts. So that's when I started what I

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Speaker 1: call the archival project, basically just unearthing box after box

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Speaker 1: and processing them, basically just beginning to cattalog them. And

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Speaker 1: I was involving Susan and that too, So I would

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Speaker 1: go and get them and then Susan can come home

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Speaker 1: with me and she can help you put them into

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Speaker 1: the pages and looking through them. So I think that

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Speaker 1: she did seem to enjoy that, and it was nice

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Speaker 1: for her to being involved in the process and to

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Speaker 1: see these drawings that she had seem for decades and decades. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: instead of providing her with materials, which you had all

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Speaker 1: done and it wasn't spurring any engagement with her, you said, hey,

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Speaker 1: why don't you participate in this project where we save

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Speaker 1: all of your previous work and so it's a different

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Speaker 1: kind of orientation for her where she doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: produce anything, but she is engaging with what she has

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Speaker 1: done previously. And so I'm guessing that that kind of

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Speaker 1: slowly brought something back to life for her. Yeah. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I think her engaging in that and her seeing her

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Speaker 1: works and her seeing that her works are being appreciated

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Speaker 1: as well, and just enjoying them really. And then by

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight is when Den Simon found out

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Speaker 1: about Susan's at work. That's the documentarian. Yeah, so he

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Speaker 1: made the documentary. So basically he approached me and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'd love to do a documentary about Susan's life and

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Speaker 1: her works. But he asked that really important question, which

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Speaker 1: was I think was pivotal in this hole with Susan

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Speaker 1: starting to draw again. He basically said, do you think

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Speaker 1: that Susan would or could ever draw again? I think

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Speaker 1: that there is something about when somebody outside the family asks,

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Speaker 1: especially if he's going to do a film, and he's

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Speaker 1: just asking this question, I'm not going to give it

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Speaker 1: an answer to that without actually really looking into the possibilities.

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Speaker 1: And I think too that what actually helped through teaching

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Speaker 1: at the disability school. Typically, what we would do is

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Speaker 1: work with the students and the parents and their supporters

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Speaker 1: to identify what are what do they have? And you know,

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Speaker 1: what are their skills? And where are we going? What

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Speaker 1: are the goals? And with your goals, what are the

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Speaker 1: strategies you're going to have in place to reach that goal.

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Speaker 1: So basically I think that subconsciously as applying that to Susan,

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Speaker 1: It's like, okay, so if this is a goal, is

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Speaker 1: to ken she or would she draw again? What are

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Speaker 1: the strategies or approaches to put in place to possibly

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Speaker 1: bring that about? And so it's not just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: do you want some pencil? It's like, hey, I got

355
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Speaker 1: to think outside the square here, who's going to be

356
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Speaker 1: involved and what are the different approaches that we could

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Speaker 1: we could have. So I spoke with Mum and my

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Speaker 1: brother Bernard, who's living with Mum at the time, and

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Speaker 1: within a couple of weeks she was drawing. Now, wait,

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Speaker 1: I want to back up and say, like your interest

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Speaker 1: in helping Susan re engage with her art was that

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Speaker 1: you saw that making art gave her a sense of

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Speaker 1: joy and fulfillment and purpose in her days or that

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Speaker 1: she enjoyed it and you wanted to help sort of

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Speaker 1: provide an on ramp for her to sort of get

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Speaker 1: that joy back. Absolutely, so that was the rush, That

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Speaker 1: was the urgency, and that was the real crunch of it.

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Speaker 1: But also knowing that these drawings are just absolutely fantastic,

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Speaker 1: and then you feel this weight or this kind of

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Speaker 1: burden that it's like these are too good to be

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Speaker 1: just here. They need to be out there. We need

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Speaker 1: to hear other people, and she needs to hear other

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Speaker 1: people say these are amazing, not in a patronizing way

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Speaker 1: of that's nice Susan, right right, not a pat on

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Speaker 1: the head like good good, like actually this is this

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Speaker 1: is world class arch Yes, yes, that's right now I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about Obviously Susan's had a lot of

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Speaker 1: styles over the years, but if you were to sort

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Speaker 1: of sum up her artistic sensibility aday her artistic style,

380
00:26:11,036 --> 00:26:19,356
Speaker 1: how would you do that? Her content is encyclopedic. She

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00:26:19,596 --> 00:26:26,556
Speaker 1: covers from creatures to architecture, to cartoon characters to text,

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Speaker 1: even though she cannot read or write, to abstract concepts

383
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Speaker 1: like pulling, pushing, tension, pouring, says she'll have a jug

384
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Speaker 1: pouring spoons, pouring things, pouring, what's this pouring business? Or

385
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Speaker 1: you know. One of the intrigues I've been looking through

386
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Speaker 1: recently is what I call Susan's bird people. She's got

387
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Speaker 1: people in her drawings, but then and she's also got

388
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Speaker 1: a lot of birds. But she's got these amazing so

389
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Speaker 1: many different varieties of is that more a bird or

390
00:27:01,796 --> 00:27:05,956
Speaker 1: a person? You know, where personified birds or birdified people,

391
00:27:06,076 --> 00:27:08,676
Speaker 1: and just like, whoa, how did you do that? It's

392
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Speaker 1: like like a bird, a bird flying up off the page.

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00:27:12,916 --> 00:27:15,036
Speaker 1: It looks like a beautiful bird, like a real bird,

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Speaker 1: not a cartoon bird that's wearing Donald Duck's jacket. And

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Speaker 1: then she's got another one where she's got a cow

396
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Speaker 1: and the cow has got Donald Duck's jacket on, and

397
00:27:25,916 --> 00:27:28,516
Speaker 1: then some of the other ones where Donald Duck has

398
00:27:28,556 --> 00:27:31,276
Speaker 1: taken his jacket off, so now he's in the nude.

399
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Speaker 1: And then you're reminded that actually, the whole time Donald

400
00:27:34,596 --> 00:27:39,116
Speaker 1: wears his jacket, he's never worn any pants. Although he

401
00:27:39,156 --> 00:27:42,236
Speaker 1: has his gloves on, he's lost his pants, and somehow

402
00:27:42,276 --> 00:27:45,756
Speaker 1: he seems fully dressed without pants. So these kind of

403
00:27:45,796 --> 00:27:51,356
Speaker 1: things come to but yeah, it's kind of her drawings

404
00:27:51,836 --> 00:27:55,636
Speaker 1: I think that they're an expression of what she's going through.

405
00:27:55,756 --> 00:27:59,756
Speaker 1: Like sometimes there's pure joy and I do remember her

406
00:27:59,916 --> 00:28:04,796
Speaker 1: years ago, like she'd be laughing when she's rowing, and

407
00:28:04,796 --> 00:28:06,276
Speaker 1: it's like, what are you thinking? Why do you know

408
00:28:06,316 --> 00:28:10,916
Speaker 1: why she's drawing? Then other ones are quite quite dark,

409
00:28:11,076 --> 00:28:16,436
Speaker 1: can quite sort of like wow, what is this? And

410
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Speaker 1: I mean if we have things that we're a bit

411
00:28:19,236 --> 00:28:22,476
Speaker 1: upset about or bit confused about, things that we want

412
00:28:22,516 --> 00:28:27,996
Speaker 1: to clarify our understandings or discuss something, we can do

413
00:28:28,036 --> 00:28:30,956
Speaker 1: that with each other. But how does Susan process a

414
00:28:31,036 --> 00:28:34,836
Speaker 1: misunderstanding or a fear or an anxiety about something and

415
00:28:34,876 --> 00:28:38,636
Speaker 1: she can't converse with somebody about it. So some of

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00:28:38,676 --> 00:28:43,516
Speaker 1: her drawings that they're the conversations that she never had, right,

417
00:28:43,676 --> 00:28:45,996
Speaker 1: And when you think about all the conversations you have,

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00:28:46,556 --> 00:28:48,956
Speaker 1: well depends on who they're with and what they're about

419
00:28:48,996 --> 00:28:53,356
Speaker 1: and when, so you know, but they're more than all

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Speaker 1: the conversations she never had because they're just done so brilliantly.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're not just they're not just some ideas

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00:29:01,836 --> 00:29:04,876
Speaker 1: and we happen to have them all. It's like, man,

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Speaker 1: how do you compose such a thing? How do you

424
00:29:08,636 --> 00:29:11,556
Speaker 1: like some of the drawings are a real tangle, a

425
00:29:11,716 --> 00:29:18,556
Speaker 1: depth of characters like in action doing all this stuff.

426
00:29:19,276 --> 00:29:21,596
Speaker 1: But there's this one entwined with that one, and this

427
00:29:21,636 --> 00:29:23,636
Speaker 1: one's in front of that one that's behind that. There's

428
00:29:23,676 --> 00:29:26,236
Speaker 1: got there's all these things going on, but there's no

429
00:29:26,316 --> 00:29:29,756
Speaker 1: sketchy lines, no rubbers, and no rubbers, news, no raisers.

430
00:29:30,676 --> 00:29:35,396
Speaker 1: How do you do that? So I think it's and

431
00:29:35,476 --> 00:29:38,316
Speaker 1: I'm not just saying this because you know, if you

432
00:29:38,876 --> 00:29:41,956
Speaker 1: know how mothers think that their kid is the most

433
00:29:41,996 --> 00:29:43,916
Speaker 1: beautiful and clever kid in the world, and they and

434
00:29:43,996 --> 00:29:45,796
Speaker 1: they and they can't see past that because it's their

435
00:29:45,796 --> 00:29:48,636
Speaker 1: own kid. But it's not just because she's my sister.

436
00:29:48,796 --> 00:29:51,916
Speaker 1: It's like I look at that Misco, this is this

437
00:29:52,036 --> 00:29:57,476
Speaker 1: is just this is brilliant. Yeah, I'm curious when when

438
00:29:57,516 --> 00:29:59,996
Speaker 1: did she first sell? When did you first When did

439
00:30:00,036 --> 00:30:04,036
Speaker 1: somebody first acquire one of her? Her works? Her first

440
00:30:04,476 --> 00:30:09,516
Speaker 1: exhibition was in Sydney at Callen Park and yeah, the

441
00:30:09,516 --> 00:30:12,916
Speaker 1: works were not for sale, so none sold there. And

442
00:30:13,036 --> 00:30:16,276
Speaker 1: that's because explicitly we just said, you know, the works

443
00:30:16,276 --> 00:30:20,996
Speaker 1: are not for sale, because basically we've only just unearthed

444
00:30:21,076 --> 00:30:25,276
Speaker 1: all these works that we haven't seen forever and we

445
00:30:25,316 --> 00:30:27,156
Speaker 1: don't know this world. We didn't we didn't know the

446
00:30:27,236 --> 00:30:29,796
Speaker 1: art world, and so we don't want to run the

447
00:30:29,876 --> 00:30:32,836
Speaker 1: risk of making a mistake, so, you know, so just

448
00:30:32,956 --> 00:30:35,796
Speaker 1: to be safer, it's like, they're not for sale, but

449
00:30:35,876 --> 00:30:40,156
Speaker 1: you know, and they're now. Susan's um first show in

450
00:30:40,276 --> 00:30:45,036
Speaker 1: the States was in twenty fourteen. Where was that? That

451
00:30:45,156 --> 00:30:48,276
Speaker 1: was in New York at the Outside of Art Fair

452
00:30:49,036 --> 00:30:53,236
Speaker 1: and then followed shortly after at the Andrew Edlund Gallery.

453
00:30:54,196 --> 00:30:59,676
Speaker 1: And initially when we were approached for these exhibitions over there,

454
00:30:59,916 --> 00:31:03,636
Speaker 1: we said, yeah, sure, but they're not for sale. They said,

455
00:31:03,796 --> 00:31:06,756
Speaker 1: that's okay, they're too good not to be shown. Let

456
00:31:06,836 --> 00:31:10,236
Speaker 1: us show these. But then you know, we sort of decided,

457
00:31:10,796 --> 00:31:13,836
Speaker 1: you know, looking closely at it and realizing, man, you know,

458
00:31:13,916 --> 00:31:19,156
Speaker 1: this doesn't happen without passion, without dedication, without expense, and

459
00:31:19,276 --> 00:31:22,996
Speaker 1: in fairness, it's like, it's not until you step into

460
00:31:23,036 --> 00:31:26,796
Speaker 1: that world and begin to become familiar with it and

461
00:31:27,476 --> 00:31:30,556
Speaker 1: develop a bit of trust that then you realize, we'll

462
00:31:30,836 --> 00:31:33,676
Speaker 1: hang on a minute, this may be a good for

463
00:31:33,716 --> 00:31:36,836
Speaker 1: Susan for some works to be made available for sale,

464
00:31:36,876 --> 00:31:40,116
Speaker 1: because you know, these can be put into collection and

465
00:31:40,956 --> 00:31:43,636
Speaker 1: then the collectors getting behind and they can help to

466
00:31:43,876 --> 00:31:46,996
Speaker 1: you know whatever. So so, yeah, that was twenty fourteen

467
00:31:47,676 --> 00:31:52,876
Speaker 1: was when her works were first sold, other than the

468
00:31:52,876 --> 00:31:55,436
Speaker 1: one in nineteen seventy that was sold for five pounds

469
00:31:55,436 --> 00:31:59,876
Speaker 1: that we don't you don't know what it was so

470
00:31:59,876 --> 00:32:04,676
Speaker 1: so really, I mean, she had been making art for

471
00:32:05,596 --> 00:32:12,476
Speaker 1: gosh since the mid fifties until Hill really the twenty

472
00:32:12,596 --> 00:32:21,596
Speaker 1: tens before people in the international scene recognized her talent. Yeah,

473
00:32:21,636 --> 00:32:25,076
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, Yeah, it's a long time, isn't it.

474
00:32:25,076 --> 00:32:28,276
Speaker 1: It is, It is a long time. Did you observe

475
00:32:29,076 --> 00:32:33,556
Speaker 1: when Susan's work started getting attention, did you observe in

476
00:32:33,596 --> 00:32:38,716
Speaker 1: her any kind of shift or recognition that other people

477
00:32:38,716 --> 00:32:43,396
Speaker 1: thought her work was really special? With Susan, definitely, it was.

478
00:32:43,596 --> 00:32:49,676
Speaker 1: It was. The transformation was phenomenal. It was absolutely amazing.

479
00:32:50,636 --> 00:32:55,116
Speaker 1: Her whole demeanor, her whole facial like there's a lift,

480
00:32:55,236 --> 00:32:59,076
Speaker 1: her eyes was back, she lifted. He'd even stand up straight,

481
00:32:59,076 --> 00:33:01,316
Speaker 1: because she's got a bit of an old stop going

482
00:33:01,356 --> 00:33:05,756
Speaker 1: on there. I can remember also when the documentary was

483
00:33:05,796 --> 00:33:09,996
Speaker 1: being shot, which involved you know, like Susan being there

484
00:33:09,996 --> 00:33:13,676
Speaker 1: with important people coming for interviews and that sort of thing,

485
00:33:13,716 --> 00:33:16,116
Speaker 1: and the lights and the cameras and you know, so

486
00:33:16,156 --> 00:33:18,716
Speaker 1: Susan was beginning to feel quite special, you know, with

487
00:33:18,756 --> 00:33:23,676
Speaker 1: the filming of the of the show. And at around

488
00:33:23,716 --> 00:33:26,156
Speaker 1: that time, one of the jobs that Susan would do

489
00:33:26,316 --> 00:33:29,236
Speaker 1: at home was to empty the bully. And that's just

490
00:33:29,316 --> 00:33:31,516
Speaker 1: a scrap bucket at the end of the kitchen bench.

491
00:33:32,116 --> 00:33:33,876
Speaker 1: Good exercise. We got to walk all the way down

492
00:33:33,916 --> 00:33:35,556
Speaker 1: the back of the section, down by the bush and

493
00:33:35,796 --> 00:33:37,556
Speaker 1: empty it and bring it back up again. It's a

494
00:33:37,556 --> 00:33:41,396
Speaker 1: good good get your nose in the fresh air. But

495
00:33:41,396 --> 00:33:44,916
Speaker 1: but when she was starting to get famous and everything

496
00:33:44,956 --> 00:33:48,076
Speaker 1: and people, you know, all this attention and everything, and

497
00:33:48,916 --> 00:33:52,516
Speaker 1: Mum noticed Billy's not getting emptied, you know, and then

498
00:33:52,596 --> 00:33:54,556
Speaker 1: Mum would say to say to soon, oh, Susan, go

499
00:33:54,716 --> 00:33:56,916
Speaker 1: empty the bully, and she'd just look at it, and

500
00:33:56,956 --> 00:34:03,276
Speaker 1: then I'm not emptying the bully anymore. I just thought,

501
00:34:03,716 --> 00:34:08,516
Speaker 1: good for that. Whoa, that's just so good. What attitude

502
00:34:08,596 --> 00:34:14,796
Speaker 1: it's like, Umo, because I'm a recognized artist. Oh my god,

503
00:34:15,356 --> 00:34:20,276
Speaker 1: that is hilarious. Um, why do you think that her

504
00:34:20,316 --> 00:34:26,356
Speaker 1: work has resonated with so many people? You know, what

505
00:34:26,596 --> 00:34:34,076
Speaker 1: is it about it that speaks to folks? Yeah, it's

506
00:34:34,116 --> 00:34:39,516
Speaker 1: had to summarize that, but I think that maybe it's

507
00:34:39,556 --> 00:34:45,796
Speaker 1: the self taught approach where it's just so it's quite

508
00:34:45,796 --> 00:34:48,836
Speaker 1: it's very unique. It's kind of earthy, you know, in

509
00:34:48,836 --> 00:34:52,076
Speaker 1: the sense that it's not superficial. It's not fancy, prissy

510
00:34:52,236 --> 00:34:55,116
Speaker 1: or anything. It's just like it's like whoa, It's like, um,

511
00:34:55,876 --> 00:34:59,356
Speaker 1: I think, whether you're old or young, or whether you're

512
00:34:59,516 --> 00:35:02,476
Speaker 1: educated or not educated, in arts is something that like

513
00:35:02,716 --> 00:35:05,636
Speaker 1: arrests your attention and grabs you, pulls you in and

514
00:35:05,636 --> 00:35:09,596
Speaker 1: and um, I mean even even you know who works

515
00:35:09,596 --> 00:35:12,356
Speaker 1: that are quite abstract and there's no not a lot

516
00:35:12,356 --> 00:35:16,316
Speaker 1: of figurative recognizabull sort of objects in there. When you

517
00:35:16,356 --> 00:35:18,516
Speaker 1: look at it and you think, well, man, what is

518
00:35:18,596 --> 00:35:20,756
Speaker 1: going on here? You know, like it might be just

519
00:35:20,836 --> 00:35:24,076
Speaker 1: like projections of lines and the way she's composed that,

520
00:35:24,436 --> 00:35:28,356
Speaker 1: and it's like, I don't know, there's something there's something

521
00:35:28,516 --> 00:35:33,436
Speaker 1: quite captivating about it that draws you in. I think

522
00:35:33,476 --> 00:35:37,276
Speaker 1: sometimes too, that it's not in your face, that what

523
00:35:37,316 --> 00:35:41,036
Speaker 1: you see is what there is at first glance. So

524
00:35:41,356 --> 00:35:43,596
Speaker 1: it's not like just a big square with a big

525
00:35:43,596 --> 00:35:46,596
Speaker 1: flower in the middle. It's like you look and then

526
00:35:46,636 --> 00:35:48,836
Speaker 1: you look again, and then you look again. It's like

527
00:35:48,876 --> 00:35:51,636
Speaker 1: my gosh, there's more and more, And I think that's

528
00:35:51,716 --> 00:35:57,676
Speaker 1: that everyone wants an adventure ORF. I totally For people

529
00:35:57,716 --> 00:36:00,996
Speaker 1: who are not familiar with Susan or her work or

530
00:36:01,076 --> 00:36:04,396
Speaker 1: her story, what do you think it's important for people

531
00:36:04,836 --> 00:36:10,996
Speaker 1: to take away and to understand about her? M wow,

532
00:36:14,436 --> 00:36:20,636
Speaker 1: Obviously she's an amazing artist, and that Susan's got this

533
00:36:20,836 --> 00:36:29,516
Speaker 1: treasure that could possibly have gone unknown, and Susan having

534
00:36:29,556 --> 00:36:33,156
Speaker 1: been discovered as an artist, and Susan going back to

535
00:36:33,236 --> 00:36:36,036
Speaker 1: her drawing has basically saved her life. I mean, I

536
00:36:36,156 --> 00:36:38,956
Speaker 1: can't begin to imagine if she had done another decade

537
00:36:38,996 --> 00:36:42,236
Speaker 1: of not drawing and not being recognized. It's like I

538
00:36:42,356 --> 00:36:45,836
Speaker 1: just can't even It's unthinkable. But when I think about it, well,

539
00:36:45,876 --> 00:36:48,676
Speaker 1: she actually did it for fifteen years. How did that happen?

540
00:36:49,356 --> 00:36:52,996
Speaker 1: And oh my gosh? You know, so, I think that's

541
00:36:53,036 --> 00:36:57,596
Speaker 1: an encouragement that to encourage us to look about us,

542
00:36:57,676 --> 00:37:01,356
Speaker 1: look within us. You know, are there other people you

543
00:37:01,476 --> 00:37:06,956
Speaker 1: know that we can help or that can be helped.

544
00:37:08,796 --> 00:37:13,076
Speaker 1: But it doesn't happen without dedication, you know, like Susan's lucky.

545
00:37:13,116 --> 00:37:16,876
Speaker 1: There have been so many people with passion, belief, dedication

546
00:37:17,116 --> 00:37:20,156
Speaker 1: to actually it's almost like the star's got to be aligned.

547
00:37:20,276 --> 00:37:23,796
Speaker 1: You know that one thing happens in their nets dependent

548
00:37:23,876 --> 00:37:26,916
Speaker 1: on another happening. So it's not going to happen without

549
00:37:27,796 --> 00:37:33,716
Speaker 1: commitment and passion and dedication. But I would like to

550
00:37:33,796 --> 00:37:38,356
Speaker 1: think that other people can be discovered and their treasures

551
00:37:38,796 --> 00:37:43,716
Speaker 1: appreciate you. But Tita Coole is the younger sister and

552
00:37:44,076 --> 00:37:48,276
Speaker 1: manager of the artist Susan Takahari King. You can check

553
00:37:48,316 --> 00:37:53,276
Speaker 1: out Susan's work on Instagram at Susan Takahari King. That's

554
00:37:53,436 --> 00:37:57,596
Speaker 1: Susan t e k A h u r A n

555
00:37:57,676 --> 00:38:02,396
Speaker 1: g I King. This episode was produced by David ja

556
00:38:02,636 --> 00:38:07,036
Speaker 1: and edited by Sophie Crane, mix engineering by Jake Gorski.

557
00:38:07,556 --> 00:38:09,396
Speaker 1: Thanks to you Friend for list Sick