1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They call 6 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: producer Paul mission Controled decade. Most importantly, you are you, 8 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: want you to know. Crucial disclaimer for this episode. Nothing 10 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: we talk about and today's show is medical advice and 11 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: it should not be mistaken for such. Could it be 12 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: mistaken a spiritual advice? Are we Maybe we should disclaim 13 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: that too. That's that's all in the eye of the beholder, 14 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: I suppose, right true. Yeah, the stance of this show 15 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: has always been that your spirituality is your own, so 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: we would never dispense spiritual advice either. But to the 17 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: point about medical advice, the reason we're saying this at 18 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: the top of the show is that at some point 19 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: in every single person's life, no matter who you are, 20 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: your health becomes your number one priority. Princes, princesses and 21 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: paupers alike and When people are beset by chronic, debilitating, 22 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: or terminal conditions, we often turn to any possible avenue 23 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: in search of a cure. In the US, the health 24 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: care system also forces many many residents to seek out 25 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: alternative medicine, simply due to the fact that traditional medical 26 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: care can be enormously expensive, and for other people, the 27 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: alternative care route is already seen as somehow more reliable 28 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: or at the very least less dangerous than established medical practice. 29 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: One of the oldest, most common forms of early medicine 30 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: comes from the ancient days of religion and what we 31 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: today call science and ritual and procedure, back when all 32 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: these things were lumped into a single entity, when medicine, 33 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 1: such as it was, was less a matter of science 34 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: and more a matter of faith. So today's question, what 35 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: is faith healing? What is the laying on of hands? 36 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: Here are the facts. Yeah, I mean, you know, the 37 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: laying on of hands beyond the notion of you know, 38 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: I think the image that a lot of us conjure 39 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: when we hear the term faith healing of somebody in 40 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: a position of leadership and a church taking their hands 41 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: and laying them on someone and healing the sick or 42 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: the idea of you know, Jesus laying his hands on 43 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: Lazarus and curing him of his leprosy, or or what 44 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: have you, you know, restoring sight to the blind and 45 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,839 Speaker 1: the like. But laying on of hands is a lot 46 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: more than that. I mean, it's it's in in the 47 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: Christian tradition. It is a form of trans mithting blessings 48 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: and sort of um being a conduit for God's message 49 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: or God's kind of power. I guess, depending on who 50 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: you talk to. But it is something that is in 51 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: the Bible and is a very basic tenet of the 52 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: Christian faith. It's one that people often overlook. UM. So 53 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: what is the laying on of hands um? In the 54 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: genre of faith healing uh, that term being an umbrella 55 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: term for kind of rituals and practices meant to create 56 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: some sort of divine or supernatural result uh In like 57 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: I said, healing someone's physical, psychological, or spiritual malady. UM. 58 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: Some other examples can include things like visiting a shrine 59 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: in other faiths or religious sites, some sort of pilgrimage UM, 60 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: doing a group prayer, channeling this kind of spiritual energy 61 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: in a group UM, incantations, contact with an artifact, a 62 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: sacred relic and so on. UM. And again this is 63 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: is beyond the Christian faith. I mean, that's the term 64 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: they use. But it's been around for thousands and thousands 65 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: of years, right absolutely. UM. It's been used in organized religion, 66 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: and I guess more traditional UM religions that go like 67 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: as you said, far beyond the concept of laying on 68 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: hands or some kind of spiritual interaction that is manifested 69 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: through a physical touch. It doesn't necessarily mean healing, or 70 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: it isn't always restricted to healing. There there are some 71 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: other things that that action has been used for. For instance, 72 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 1: in Judaism, the semicaw is an action of ordination that's 73 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: some UM it's not necessarily like physical healing, but some 74 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: type of blessing that can be bestowed upon somebody. UM. 75 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: It can confer like that blessing from one to another 76 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: or even the authority of that one person holds to 77 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: give it to another. UM. It's pretty pretty interesting stuff. 78 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: You can find references to this in numbers twenty seven, 79 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: fifteen through twenty three. And in this story from the Bible, 80 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: Moses like gives his power essentially to Joshua through this action. UH. 81 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: It's pretty interesting. Oh, it's all another verse in numbers 82 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: eleven sixteen through um Moses then has a group of 83 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: seventy elders around him and through this action again I'm 84 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: I'm probably pronouncing it incorrectly, but simca, he he ordains 85 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: them with his powers, but he does not heal them. 86 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: To your point, right, this is this is a conference 87 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: of authority. And although you know, the one of the 88 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: most important myths to bust here is that conflation of 89 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: faith healing with Christianity. Uh, it occurs in Christianity, but 90 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: that doesn't make it Christianity in any way special. Because 91 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: of our association with Christianity in the West, our most 92 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: apparent examples of faith healing come from that spiritual system. 93 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: So various Christian denominations have practiced laying on hands both 94 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: as an act of faith healing and also, to your point, Matt, 95 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: as an act of conferring some sort of authority ordaining someone. 96 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: In multiple New Testament passages, laying on of hands is 97 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 1: depicted as just that, an act of ordainment, and in 98 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: Pentecostal churches, especially in recent years or in recent eras, 99 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: this act accompanied by prayer is considered a crucial component 100 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: of faith healing. You'll also see that it's not uncommon 101 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: in charismatic churches often associated with a single individual, mortal 102 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: personality who has some sort of distinct, unique connection to 103 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: the divine again, whatever that divinity may be. Yeah, and 104 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: and it certainly takes on kind of theatrical quality, you know, 105 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: when you are this very charismatic individual that's you know, 106 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: bringing someone up onto the stage to perhaps cure them 107 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: of some mality. Uh and and you know, witnessed by 108 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: your congregation, and it creates this kind of fervor and 109 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: kind of works people up into you know, a frenzy oftentimes. 110 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: So so it is sort of used in that way, 111 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: especially in modern day, but you know, we we see 112 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: it all the time in history. And like these kind 113 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: of big tent revival kind of church services that would 114 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: do just this, and it would be a matter of like, 115 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: you know, an individual, a single kind of leader, having 116 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: this very specific ability that was believed in by a congregation. 117 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: And perhaps there were skeptics on the fringes are on 118 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: the outside of that group, but the folks that actually 119 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: follow this individual around would have believed that what they 120 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: were seeing was the work of God. Being done are 121 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: kind of funneled through this one person. Yeah, and we 122 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: see this in cultures across the world to cross the 123 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: timeline of human history. For instance, it's present in some 124 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: form in the Navajo spiritual system. But and this might 125 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: surprise people, it's one of my favorite things about this. 126 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: It was also a secular power for a very long 127 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: time back when uh the notion of the right to 128 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: rule was also tied up with the notion of religion. 129 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: For centuries, French and English monarchs would practice something called 130 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: the royal touch. The royal touch is what it sounds like. 131 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: They would deign to touch their subjects, and this would 132 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: be perceived as a means of treating a disease. They 133 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: started out with any old condition that caught their eye, 134 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: just like a celebrity on Twitter. If you're a peasant 135 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: and you have a condition and you catch the king 136 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 1: or the queen on a good day, then they may 137 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: lay hands on you. They may royally touch you, and 138 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: you know your chances are being cured, it would assume 139 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: would rise. However, from about the sixteenth century on, these 140 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: monarchs began to focus on specific ailment scruffula, which was 141 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: also at the time known as the King's Evil. Oh 142 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: I love that name. Well, I mean, it's it's another 143 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: example of the power of belief. I mean because a 144 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: lot of these monarchs, you know, they operate under this 145 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: principle that their power came from God, you know, and 146 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: so therefore they were like the hand and the voice 147 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: and the you know, mandate of God on earth. And 148 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: a lot of their subjects believed that too. So Scruffula, scruffula, 149 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: what be them? The scruff or the King's Evil? Well, uh, 150 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: it's pretty pretty cool to look into it, because it's 151 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: actually a really early version of perhaps marketing. Hey, Edward 152 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: Bernes wasn't involved at this time. You know. I'm so 153 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: glad that you said that, Matt, and a little piece 154 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: of me hopes that burn As was at least aware 155 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: of this brilliant con and I'll call it a con. 156 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: This may be a controversial episode, Uh shoot me. Yeah, 157 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: So you're right. They focused on this specific thing, this 158 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: specific condition it's dressed up name when it goes to 159 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: fancy parties is tuberculosis cervical lymphidnyitis. The King's Evil. As 160 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 1: we said, the thing about this condition tuberculosis, cervical lymphidniitis. 161 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: If you want to search it to your heart's content 162 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: is that you'll find it rarely leads to death, and 163 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: it often, even back then, would go into remissions seemingly 164 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: on its own. So, and this is very important. Later 165 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: the Royal Touch appeared to cure the condition. Unlike paralysis 166 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: or blindness, conditions that could be easily discerned just for 167 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: making us someone uh, this was something that you know, 168 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: the person who is suffering from the affliction would be 169 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 1: the was aware of. And that's why the Royal Touch 170 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: looked like it worked, or just as importantly, it looked 171 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: like it didn't fail. But like, is this are these 172 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: uh symptoms that were so pronounced that it could be 173 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: super clear They're like ha ha, and your symptoms have 174 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: now left you entirely or was this so thought all 175 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: that well? Wake it worked eventually, you know what I mean? 176 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: Like did there need to be a big aha moment 177 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: or it was it like okay, now go home and 178 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: get some rest and call me in the morning kind 179 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: of situation. It seems a little more like that. And 180 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: then they would report back, I'm cured, And then the 181 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: King's Touch was smashing success or thought of as infallible. 182 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: Is that kind of the shape of it been. The 183 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: big physical indication. The most apparent physical symptom is swelling 184 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: of one or more length notes. So you was swelling 185 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: would go up and then it would gradually go down. 186 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: And some people who had pre existing or concurrent unrelated 187 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: conditions would also have things like fever, weight loss, fatigue, 188 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: night sweats. In other words, a bevy of symptoms that 189 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: could come from any number of ailments. So worse comes 190 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: to worst if the royal touch, if the King's touch 191 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: has not cured someone of the King's evil, they can 192 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: always say that they cured that one specific thing, the 193 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: King's evil. And what's uh, what's really getting you is 194 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: leprosy or not praying hard enough. Yeah, well, let's not 195 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: forget too. This was a time of uh, very poor 196 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: medical care, so a lot of people were sick a 197 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: lot of the time. I would imagine, you know, hey, guys, 198 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: I just thought of something outside of the healing, just 199 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: to take a quick detour. Here we're talking about the 200 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: king's touch or the queen's touch, or the physical act 201 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: of someone in royalty touching another person, connecting that to ordainment. 202 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: I was thinking about being knighted or you know, taking 203 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: up something like that where you're using a physical thing 204 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: a sword in a lot of cases, some kind of 205 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: weapon to touch another to then send the hours that 206 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: you already have into that other person, yea, and symbolically 207 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: show that you are the difference between their life and 208 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: their death. Not for nothing is it a sword, right, right? 209 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: So so the weird thing is this sounds like an 210 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: historical footnote, right, one of those other kind of obscure 211 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: things that are fun to hear about. The last known 212 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: example of the royal touch occurred as recently as eighteen 213 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: five at the coordination of the French King Charles the tenth. 214 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: And then after that, these superpowers of monarchy sort of 215 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: fade away. And it's good to know that they faded 216 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: away if you're a fan of medicine, but if you're 217 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: a fan of folklore, it's a little bitter sweet to 218 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: see them go. You know, they went the way of 219 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: the Dodo, along with other royal superpowers, like the ability 220 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: to craft magical curative objects, or of course the ability 221 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: to exercise demons, because you see, science becomes the new 222 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: kid in town. Well yeah, but even like things like 223 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about previously like unicorn horns being ground up 224 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: or what they thought were unicorn horns which are actually 225 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: like Norwald tusks that were traded by the Vikings. Um, 226 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: that was something that even the royals believed in, you know, 227 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,839 Speaker 1: pretty uh, pretty heavily, and they would have like scepters 228 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: may out of these things and these is like magical objects. 229 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: Which is interesting to me because if if, if there 230 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: was this emphasis on the royal touch being so powerful, 231 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: how come they couldn't use it on themselves. It's a 232 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: good question. That was probably the the moment in court 233 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: where a philosopher got kicked out. They don't we don't 234 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: want to hear that. We don't want to hear any 235 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: of that, and exactly. But then thankfully science did sort 236 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: of supplant a lot of this, uh a lot of 237 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: this stuff. Uh So, what what does science have to 238 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: say about the this whole concept of you know, imparting 239 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: the power or healing to others just through physical touch. Well, 240 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: I mean, the scientific community in the modern day, largely 241 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: fast majority lee dismisses faith healing as being a thing. 242 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: They say that it's pseudoscience. Um, I mean, I mean, 243 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: that's just kind of the stance. Right, that's the way 244 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: it's going to be, and in the way the way 245 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: it has been for quite a long time. But there 246 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: are many others in the world, from true believers to 247 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: people who are even more skeptical. Um. They do, they 248 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: do object to this concept of it being complete pseudoscience. 249 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: There there are people, I would say, kind of like me, 250 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to put myself to deep into this 251 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: camp early on in this episode, who think there might 252 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: be something to it, to that physical physical connection of 253 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: cells atoms together that could do something right um. And 254 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: people who are who believe this a little more, they 255 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: argue that faith healing should be viewed viewed as a 256 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: spiritual practice in itself, and that is it. It is 257 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: a spiritual practice, right um. And the concept of using 258 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: faith faith healing or believing in faith healing or accepting 259 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: faith healing has nothing to do with science and scientific claims. 260 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: It should be treated as a matter of faith, and 261 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: that's that's it. Period. But but it's no surprise that 262 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: this practice is still really popular and there are things 263 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: that have grown out of it, um. Different kinds of faith, 264 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: different kinds of touching or almost touching, and thinking about 265 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: raiki where there's almost touching. Um, it's the same kind 266 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: of physical act without the physical touch or or think 267 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: about this, I'm a tell evangelist. Put your hand against 268 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: the screen will be healed for folks watching the video there, Man, 269 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: I felt it hard, ben or but but but the 270 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: flip side of this is like, if if you can 271 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: heal somebody like this, can you also harm somebody like this? 272 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: Could you? Could I manifest like cancer into you my 273 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: mi an enemy or at the very least, I mean, 274 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: isn't this sort of like a reverse curse almost? I 275 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: don't want to derail us too much, but it does. 276 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: It feels like there ought to be a flip side. 277 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: If you believe in the one, shouldn't you believe in 278 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: the other? You know, the left hand path? Yeah, Yeah, 279 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's another episode of one we 280 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: should do. I think that's a fantastic idea. Actually, I'm 281 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: gonna write that down. Yeah, if one exists, then the 282 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: other would have to write. Well, that's what Uh, that's 283 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: what our various philosophical schools tell us. Uh. And that 284 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: makes that future episode even more chilling for reasons that 285 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: will soon become a parent. Yeah, in many parts of 286 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: the world. We have to remember even millions and millions 287 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: of people have no realistic access to modern medical care, 288 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: and overwhelming evidence proves that all things being equal, a 289 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: patient will tend to be much better off with a 290 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: doctor than with a priest. The vast majority of spiritual 291 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 1: authorities these days, with some notable exceptions, welcome the practice 292 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: of modern medicine. They do not see it as conflicting 293 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: with their personal beliefs. Please say, religious authorities, go to 294 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: a doctor, pray and you know, go to the doctor. 295 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: So the question then, is why does faith healing persists? 296 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: More importantly, why are so many people convinced that it works? 297 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. Has 298 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: this ever happened to you? Please heal my grievous wounds? Well, 299 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: my son, I want to, but I have so many 300 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: other people to heal, and I've only got these two hands. 301 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: It's a problem familiar to any work in faith healing. 302 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: You've got money rolling in, You've got a line of 303 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: desperate people out the front door of the revival of 304 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: local megachurch. But how are you to get to everyone's 305 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: bank account in time? But can't you just pray from 306 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: more hands. Pray to God for more hands. If only 307 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: I could, my son, if only I could wiper to God. 308 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: When you can thank Many Hands. The newest product from 309 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: Illumination Global Unlimited guaranteed the revolutionize the faith healing industry. 310 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: Are these gloves with a bunch of other plastic hands 311 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: attached to them. That's right, don't overthink it. Just slip 312 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: on these convenient vented gloves and let many hands warm skin. 313 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: Helping hands instantly quadruple your output and your income. Wow, 314 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: it feels like you're touching me with a real hand. 315 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: How a patented adjustable distance technology means you can lay 316 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: hands on update victims patients at once as long as 317 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: they're properly positioned. Amazing, are touching you and you and 318 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: you and me, best and me. Do you feel it, 319 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: my son? Do you feel the power of the divide? 320 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: Hang on to me. Just adjust my glove here. I 321 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: feel it all right. I feel something that's good enough 322 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: for me and that's good enough for God. Yeah. Us, 323 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: but away those tiresome obstacles to spiritual fame and financial success. 324 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: With Many Hands, available now at a disreputable house of 325 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: worship or department store near You rated eight of eight 326 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: simultaneous high fives by faith healing is across the globe. 327 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: Note many hands bears no responsibility for lack of actual medicine, dizziness, euphoria, dropsy, cropsy, 328 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: itchy palms, microplastic inhalation, the nihilistic dread of swindling the 329 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: ill and the dying into prim malfunction with MC diarrhea, earworms, tapeworms, hookworms, 330 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: laundry expenses, and any fees associated with court costs or 331 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: legal rule leads in any hand is a subsidiary of 332 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: Illumination Global Unlimited. Wow, they're back one of our first sponsors. Yeah, 333 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: yeah they are, yep, And boy are they helpful given 334 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: those products to us that we just need so so badly. 335 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: That was such a great ad break. Let's let's take 336 00:20:51,040 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: another one. Here's a word from our sponsors. Here's where 337 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. The answer, but whether or not faith 338 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: healing works and laying on hands is not as clear 339 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: cut as we might like to think. Science has proven 340 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: that physical human contact and yes, in some ways, even 341 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: the process of laying hands on people may have genuine 342 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: medical benefits. That is a very very bold claim, but 343 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 1: it's maybe not as crazy as it sounds. I actually 344 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 1: have first hand experience with this UM because it appears 345 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: that the laying on of hands, the physical touch is crucial, 346 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: absolutely crucial to early childhood development. If you're a parent, 347 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: you may have experienced this. I certainly did. You've you've 348 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: probably had multiple conversations early on after having your child, 349 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: before having your child, perhaps UM talking about the importance 350 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: of something called skin to skin contact UM. And you know, 351 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: there is a lot of misinformation out there that you 352 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: can find on the internet and in so many books 353 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: about babies. There's so many of those, but it does 354 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: seem to be very important, and it appears to be 355 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: important at least in our case with with my son 356 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: and my wife, where that immediate skin to skin contact 357 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: was was very much encouraged by everyone around us and 358 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: was told we were told to do this prior to 359 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: having the baby. But also it was good for I 360 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: would say, for me to have like my child touch 361 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: my skin and like the sense and there it's one 362 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: of those weird things that feels like it goes beyond science, 363 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: but but in reality it does seem to be things 364 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 1: that are very scientific, like like the like the very 365 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: animalistic almost like the scent, the touch, the tactile feel, 366 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: the warmth, um, the sounds. It's fascinating stuff. Matt. Did 367 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: you notice a line item on your hospital bill for 368 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: skin to skin contact. Yes, that's a real thing. That's 369 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: a real thing they charge you for. Like the act 370 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: of it's like it's a service they're providing, but it's 371 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: basically just ticking the baby and giving it to you. 372 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: Um really quickly though that it's also important for bonding, 373 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, Like I mean, we've seen scientific studies with 374 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: like animals where that's you know, what was the study 375 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: with the wire monkey versus like the actual real mom, 376 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: you know, touch it like with with a newborn baby monkey, 377 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: Um given contact with this like wire monkey, and then 378 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: the ones that actually were able to be you know, 379 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 1: skin to skin nurtured by the real mother and there 380 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: was you know, the bond was crucial and that's something 381 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: that I think was important with humans as well. It 382 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: reminds me of the infamous Romanian orphanage studies that show 383 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: there are lasting developmental effects based on the amount of 384 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: interaction a very very young human has with an adult. 385 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: There's a professor of developmental psychology at St. Francis Xavier 386 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: University in Nova Scotia name is and Bigelow, and she 387 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: says she agrees with you, Matt, that the science is 388 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: there and it's compelling. Uh. And with your point and 389 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: all about emotional bonding. It's proven that babies who have 390 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: this skin to skin contact do appear to cry less, 391 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: they have more RESTful sleep. And additionally, the practice can 392 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: benefit the parents. It reduces levels of stress and the 393 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: parent the caregiver, it reduces levels of depression, and it 394 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: does this by releasing oxytocin. There there is neurochemical science 395 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: here and of course that helps with bonding on an 396 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: emotional level. You can kind of envision the positive feedback loop. 397 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: I feel calmer when I hold my child. My child 398 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: also feels calmer because they're picking up you know, my 399 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: vibes for a super scientific term, and this works again, 400 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: this works with fathers as well. Really clearly, the thing 401 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: I was talking about, the experiment I was for saying 402 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: was the Harlow monkey experiments, and it wasn't with the 403 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: real mother ever. It was one monkey, uh surrogate was 404 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: made of wire and provided nourishment, and the other one 405 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: was made of soft terry cloth. And felt much more 406 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: like a real mother kind of his experience and didn't 407 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: provide nourishment, and that was the more important bond than 408 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: the one that felt less motherly and and you know, cuddly. Uh. 409 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: It proved that that was a more important connection than 410 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: even the providing of food. I just want to say 411 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: that study is messed up. All of this guy's studies were. 412 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: This guy is an awful person. Harlow. Yeah, big, big, 413 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: very very bad reputation in the scientific community. I'm imagining 414 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: it being done to humans and just what that would 415 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,360 Speaker 1: actually look like, and I'm horrified, and now i kind 416 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: of want to write something about it. I'm sure it happens, 417 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: but maybe without the the near of scientific experimentation. Humans 418 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: are so messed up, and there's so many of us, 419 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: and we've been around for a pretty long time. So yeah, 420 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: one of us did something like that easily. Yeah, well, 421 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: speaking of psychologically being messed up or okay, let's talk 422 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: about the psychological effects of the stuff. We're talking about 423 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,959 Speaker 1: skin to skin connection. Yeah, we know that we know 424 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: that there is something that babies can innately sense about 425 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: a human caregiver. And this this is part of why 426 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: I imagine the Harlow experiment occurs with another primate, right, 427 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: because that's something you can get closer and closer to 428 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: human comparison with this. This has proven and as you said, Matt, 429 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: there there are a plethora of books about this. I 430 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: am using the word correctly. I feel like there are 431 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: too many. But but we know that reallytionship is real. 432 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: That is a situation where laying on hands or skin 433 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: to skin contact does matter. And if you are a mother, 434 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: shortly after you give birth, you get a couple of 435 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: superpowers related directly to this. You'll find that the temperature 436 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: of the skin in your chest area is a degree 437 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 1: or too higher than the temperature of the skin across 438 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: the rest of your body. This makes a natural kind 439 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: of like warming cradling area for the for the your kiddo. 440 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: And additionally, your body as a recent mother, can also 441 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: thermo regulate the child if the baby's this crazy. If 442 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 1: the baby's temperature rises, yours goes down in response. That's fascinating. Yeah, 443 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: but it's also not quite the same thing as laying 444 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: hands on someone to heal an injury or condition. To 445 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: talk about that, we have to talk about being healed 446 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: versus feeling healed. We have to introduce the placebo effect. 447 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: Make sure you do and and and again. Like I 448 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: always kind of lump these two and together. The placebo 449 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: effect is a very measurable, uh metric of the power 450 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,959 Speaker 1: of belief, the idea of actually being healed versus feeling 451 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: like you're healed, um. And a lot of that has 452 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: to do with your belief in the individual that is 453 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: imparting this, neither medicine or touch or something bigger, whether 454 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: it's some kind of ritual or uh, you know, whatever 455 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: it might be, UM, some sort of holistic approach. You know, 456 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: there's a lot of power of belief and placebo effect 457 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:36,959 Speaker 1: tied up with some of that kind of stuff too, 458 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: And that's lumped into the realm of pseudoscience, like the 459 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: idea of colloidal silver or certain you know, um kind 460 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: of medicinal herbs or what have you that that maybe 461 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: people swear by and they swear that it changes their 462 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: entire life when they take witch hazel. But then science 463 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: maybe says, well, one of the jury still out on that. 464 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: But faith healing operates as the name implies on fay. Thus, 465 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: from a scientific perspective, you can't measure faith. Faith is 466 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: a very individualistic thing, and it is a very personal thing. 467 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: So that makes it a nonstarter scientifically because it's not measurable. 468 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: Faith is by nature it's an unexplained dare we say, 469 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: kind of magical and ephemeral thing. Uh, that's incomprehensible in 470 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: the realms of science, which relies on um scientific measurements 471 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: and being able to objectively compare two different things and 472 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: the effects, so it can't be weighed, can't be measured. 473 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: You can't you know, meet it out in doses like 474 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: you can drugs or pharmaceuticals, etcetera. You know, it's just 475 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: a completely different universe, uh, than than science or medicine. 476 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: And there's certainly no shortage of individuals who believe they 477 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: themselves have been healed or they know someone who has 478 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: been healed through faith alone, through the laying of hands, 479 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: through the touch of God, or someone you know man 480 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: festing God's power through them. And I mean, that's it's amazing, 481 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: and it's actually really cool to read a lot of 482 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: these stories. Um, it's a hopeful thing to go down 483 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: that pathway, but those personal anecdotes don't add up to 484 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: real evidence, at least scientific evidence, unfortunately, And it's not 485 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: going to satisfy those listening right now who are more skeptical. Yeah, 486 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: and that doesn't mean that anyone is automatically wrong. That 487 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: means that we have to do our due diligence and 488 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: investigate it. Right, So faith healing when it appears to work, 489 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: they're very compelling cases where it appears that something happened. 490 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: When this appears to work, it may be one of 491 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: the earliest examples in humanity of what we call the 492 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: placebo effect. Record scratch. Some of us listening today may 493 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: think that calling something the placebo effect is the same 494 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: thing as is missing it. But this could not be 495 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: further from the truth. And Paul edit me. Here here 496 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: is the crazy part. Placebos are proven to work in 497 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: about thirty percent of patients. You can find more research 498 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: on this sided in how self Works article How the 499 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: placebo effect works. This means that the simple act of 500 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: taking something on a doctor's recommendation is more similar to 501 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: taking the advice of a religious figure than we may 502 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: want to think. In the modern day, you get a 503 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: sense of well being, you get what's called subjective verification, 504 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: and some research indicates that the placebo effect may indeed 505 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: go beyond the psychological realm inducing or inciting a physiological response. 506 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: It's it's super crazy. And and just just to double 507 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: back to what I brought up earlier, the idea of 508 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: like what's the opposite of faith heiling? And this is 509 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: for another episode. I just wanted to point out placebo 510 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: effect does have an opposite and it's called the no 511 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: sebo effect, and that is a detrimental result of an 512 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,959 Speaker 1: inert substance based on belief. So you know what I mean. 513 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I really think that those things do go 514 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: hand in hand with this, and I'd love to explore 515 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: that in conjunction with the idea of a curse or 516 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: imparting some kind of malady or negative effect to to 517 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: somebody you know, through touch or psych you know, or suggestion. Right, 518 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: So there are there are multiple studies that confirm the 519 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: efficacy of the placebo effect. And I do want to 520 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: mention just for the Latin Nerds, placebo is Latin for 521 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: I will please. So a major doctor is just like 522 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: convinced that you will feel better even if they don't 523 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: believe you have a real condition if they give you 524 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: sugar pills. That's the one of the common examples but 525 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: a study conducted by researchers at the u c l 526 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: A Neuropsychiatric Institute in two thousand and two gave two 527 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: different groups of patients experimental antidepressants, and they gave a 528 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: third group a placebo, And after several weeks of taking 529 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: these pills, the real ones and the placebo version, each 530 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: group's brain activity was measured using e e g. S. 531 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: The patients who have been on the placebo and also 532 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: reported a positive effect, I feel less depressed. In other words, 533 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: they showed a greater increase of brain activity than the 534 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: people who had responded well to the actual drug. The 535 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: activity also recurred in the prefrontal cortex. That's important because 536 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: it suggests to us that the brain isn't necessarily being 537 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: fooled by a placebo after all. Instead, it's responding to 538 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: this placebo in a different way than it would respond 539 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: to an actual drug. Mm or maybe that drug was 540 00:33:54,440 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: just garbage, an antidepressant was just a depressant. Maybe it would, 541 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: but then you can you can see that, you know, 542 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: there's some other excellent research at two thousand four study 543 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 1: at the University of Michigan that shows placebo effect has 544 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: some relationship with endorphins your brains natural pain relievers. And 545 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: so when you see when you do brain scans or 546 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 1: when they did in the study, and you see someone 547 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: given a placebo, then what you'll see is that their 548 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: brain activity will change, particularly in their opioid receptors which 549 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: receive endorphins, and in in there will also be activity 550 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: in areas relating to processing and responding to pain. It 551 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: is then scientifically proven that the mere expectation of pain 552 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: relief caused the brain's pain relief system to activate, and 553 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: that means it works. And and that also means that 554 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: the important part of why it works hinges on our perception. 555 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: The nature of the placebo doesn't matter, you know what 556 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: I mean. There is no curative spoon to bastardize the 557 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: matrix so long as the patient has some sort of 558 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: faith in the individual administering the treatment, or more importantly, 559 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: in the process of receiving the treatment, than a pill 560 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: is the same as a palm. So we have a 561 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: scientific case for how this process could in some instances 562 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 1: work at could function. But when we talk about faith healing, 563 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: we also have to address a darker, more controversial, more 564 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: disturbing aspect of the practice, which will do after word 565 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: from our sponsors, We've returned, and as we continue delving down, 566 00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: we're reaching the rotten route of the controversy surrounding faith healing. 567 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: Make no mistake, this involves real life conspiracy, not theories, 568 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: no guesses or speculation, proven conspiracies that are both dangerous 569 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: and ongoing, perhaps in an area in your you. Sadly, 570 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 1: one of the most common insidious conspiracy surrounding faith healing 571 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: involves con artists, by which we mean people who know 572 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: they cannot cure cancer through the power of their physical 573 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: touch or connection with the divine, but will gladly pretend 574 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: to cure anything you want so long as the price 575 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: is right. Yeah, it's very true. You may remember from 576 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: a previous episode we did on Televangelists. There's there's quite 577 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: a bit of crossover in this episode and in that episode. 578 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: And you know, one person that I don't think we 579 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: mentioned in that episode. Guys, correct me if I'm wrong, 580 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: is someone known as mar Joe. We did not. I 581 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: went back and checked. Yeah, okay, cool, so mar Joe. 582 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: The name, by the way, is Mary and Joseph Portmanteaus 583 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: shoved together there and it's not really portmantead, but it's 584 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: shoved together. At least um Marjo is the name of 585 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: a boy, or at the time, a very young boy. 586 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 1: I believe he was four years old when he got 587 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: his start as a preacher. At least that's when he 588 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: got his start, when his parents began putting him in 589 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: front in front of executives in media and other industry, saying, hey, 590 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: let me introduce Let me introduce you to our son 591 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: mar Joe, and he would go in and recite passages 592 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: from the Bible. He began preaching I think at the 593 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: age six. Maybe he was even younger than that when 594 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: he was out giving sermons to enraptured audiences hanging onto 595 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: his every word. By the way, it's mar Joe Gordner. 596 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: That's the person's name. And there is a documentary that 597 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,760 Speaker 1: you can check out. The one that I was able 598 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: to actually find was titled The Story of mar Joe. 599 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: I was able to find that on Vimeo. If you're 600 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: interested in checking it out. It's about an hour and 601 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: a half hour twenty something and it goes over the 602 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 1: entire life story of this child who grew up doing 603 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 1: this um pretty much forced by his family. I mean 604 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: anytime your child, as young as he was at the time, 605 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: your guardian or your family is going to have a 606 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: lot of say in what you do and do not do. 607 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: And in this case, it was his family that pressured 608 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: him to continue doing things like this. I think he married. 609 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: I know he started marrying people around the age of five, 610 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 1: four or five, Like he was he was officiating sermons um. 611 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: But it it it continued and continued in I would say, 612 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: an evolution of a snowball that was rolling down a 613 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: hill that was pushed by his parents. By the end 614 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,280 Speaker 1: or towards the middle, he was laying hands on people 615 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: like huge, huge, essentially tents, you know, tent style revivals 616 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: where they're just hundreds and hundreds of people, and he 617 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,479 Speaker 1: would go around and touch people where people would look 618 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 1: like they're having a seizure, and at least the televised 619 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: or the recorded versions of it where people would claim 620 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 1: to be healed by him, where he and his parents 621 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,800 Speaker 1: were making those kinds of claims. And here's the problem. 622 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: He came forward a little bit later in his life 623 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: and essentially rejected everything that he had done because he 624 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: felt very bad. Least according to what I've read that 625 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: all of this stuff was a sham and it was 626 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 1: a show that they were putting on and people were 627 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,360 Speaker 1: getting you know. Essentially, he said that people were getting 628 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: hurt and he felt terrible about it. Um. Anyway, there 629 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: there's more we could talk about. It might even be 630 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,879 Speaker 1: a whole episode, but fascinating stuff. It's one example of 631 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: how this can go wrong, how the concept of faith 632 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: healing can be used by someone or a group of 633 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: people to just get money from others. Mm hmmm. And 634 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: then we have other examples such as stage acts like 635 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: Peter pop Off spelt like its Sounds, who claimed to 636 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,479 Speaker 1: get messages from the divine. This is unfortunately a common grift. Uh. 637 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: He was actually getting information from his wife and co 638 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: conspirator who was sending it to him via a pretty 639 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: modest headpiece, and they would collect this information when people 640 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: wrote about their lives on these index cards as they 641 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 1: entered the grift. So there are so also some things 642 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 1: that appear to be cures because the condition itself was 643 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: incorrectly diagnosed, so the actual medical condition went away on 644 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 1: its own over time. But now the healer is able 645 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: to take credit for the miracle, which which happens a 646 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: lot with the unscrupulous. Some deadly serious conditions Furthermore, like 647 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 1: multiple sclerosis or cancer, can go into remission for months 648 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,399 Speaker 1: or years at a time for reasons that we don't 649 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: fully understand. However, the healer will still be their front 650 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 1: and center to claim responsibility for yet again something that 651 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,360 Speaker 1: they didn't do. And should the condition return, the healer 652 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: is long gone. You know, maybe they'll performatively, uh, pray 653 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,280 Speaker 1: for their victim if it comes up in conversation right 654 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,720 Speaker 1: on the way to another grift. And I know maybe 655 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 1: the language I'm using is strong here, but if you 656 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,879 Speaker 1: are doing this to people and you know that it 657 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,760 Speaker 1: does not work, then you are a terrible person. These 658 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 1: swindlers rely on what's called subjective validation, the idea that 659 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 1: because I feel this is true, it is true, right, 660 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: and and my sertitude is is of the higher priority 661 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: and value than any objective evidence presented. You know, it 662 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,439 Speaker 1: reminds me of what we're talking about at the beginning 663 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: of the show, the whole King's evil thing. But if 664 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,439 Speaker 1: that came back, I mean, it's the king, you would 665 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: never call that into question, right, But it's the same 666 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 1: situation where that particular malady the I can't remember the 667 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: long form. But the King's Evil was the kind of 668 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 1: shorthand had a tendency to disappear on its own, or 669 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: at the very least some of the symptoms would go 670 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: into remission. So this is a much more you know, 671 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,759 Speaker 1: specific grift than that even but kind of relying on 672 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: the same principle, right, yeah, yeah, And and the process 673 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 1: has been ironed out so that it can work even 674 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,360 Speaker 1: if you are royalty. Think about the people are self 675 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: selecting right for a hopeful positive outcome. That means they're 676 00:42:55,239 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: pre selected to validate what they're told is happening. Additionally, 677 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: unlike a medical appointment, there's not going to be a 678 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: follow up. They're not going to check back in on 679 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: you after they blow through town. That makes it easier 680 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,359 Speaker 1: to sweep victims under the rug. And of course, as 681 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: horrific and inhuman as this is, if there is an 682 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: obvious failure that you can't you know, sideline, or you 683 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,319 Speaker 1: can't sort of negate or diminish, then you, as a 684 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: faith healer, have one supermove. You can just imply that 685 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 1: the victim didn't have enough faith or they didn't follow 686 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:38,800 Speaker 1: the procedure you set forth through them, which is extra punishing, 687 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: lee awful because these people they all they have is 688 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: their belief. They're they're they're they're entering into this agreement 689 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: based on their belief. Uh, and then you're taking advantage 690 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: of that, and then when it doesn't work, you're calling 691 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 1: their whole like basis for existing into question. Can you 692 00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: imagine if you believe your cancer was healed by a 693 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 1: faith healer because of the power of God and your 694 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,320 Speaker 1: faith in God and this individual, and then it didn't 695 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,439 Speaker 1: work and you were told, well, I guess you don't 696 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: believe in God enough. Well, there, there's there is that, 697 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:18,879 Speaker 1: and that's off. It's mind boggling. But there's also an 698 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:25,920 Speaker 1: internal logic to um some spirituality, and a lot of 699 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 1: it is based on a belief in destiny or you know, 700 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 1: predetermination or a version of you know, God, whatever entity 701 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 1: has a plan or a map and we are just 702 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 1: following along on this map and this timeline and this 703 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 1: story in our time when it is our time is 704 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,280 Speaker 1: our time, right, So if this, if this faith healing 705 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: didn't work and the person still passed away, it was 706 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: just God's plan or it was when that person was 707 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: supposed to go. And it doesn't matter if they were 708 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: going to be healed, or if the healing would have worked, 709 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: it's what God intended. So I mean there all of 710 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,240 Speaker 1: that kind of works with each other to set the 711 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,359 Speaker 1: person up that I think we're pretty clearly labeling a 712 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:18,120 Speaker 1: swindler here to win. Yeah, so win win situation. I 713 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 1: would also add to that threat of conversation that the 714 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 1: interesting part of that argument is that it means free 715 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,800 Speaker 1: will at the best takes a very far back seat 716 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,040 Speaker 1: in the bus of existence, and therefore it would be 717 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,759 Speaker 1: useless for us to record this episode. But we have 718 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,879 Speaker 1: to do it because we're not choosing to do so. 719 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: And the illusion of choices, you know, it's a big 720 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 1: thing in stage magic and all kinds of scams. But 721 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 1: you're right, it's the game is rigged for again these 722 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,240 Speaker 1: unethical faith healers, who I would say are not faith 723 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,120 Speaker 1: healers because they don't believe in what they're doing. These 724 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: people are setting up this when when anything bad that 725 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: happens is not the healer's fault. If for some reason 726 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:11,680 Speaker 1: anything good happens, for like due to any variable, then 727 00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,720 Speaker 1: the con artists can take every bit of the credit. 728 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,479 Speaker 1: And then, of course, if they're super good at their job, 729 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 1: they'll make sure to pay a little lip service to 730 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 1: a divine being that they probably don't believe in, just 731 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: because that keeps the show going. You know, it's kind 732 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: of a k sort of thing. But this isn't to 733 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,399 Speaker 1: say that there is not science of play. Patients will 734 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,719 Speaker 1: feel better, the endorphins are churning. This leads to the 735 00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,520 Speaker 1: physiological stuff we outlined earlier. It can be a genuine, 736 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,719 Speaker 1: albeit temporary respite, and and I think we have to 737 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,319 Speaker 1: just spend a little bit of time on this. We're 738 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:53,319 Speaker 1: being hard on the bad actors here right, We're being 739 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,960 Speaker 1: hard on the grifters and the criminals, but we are 740 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: by no means saying that all faith healers are bad 741 00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,040 Speaker 1: or cynical parasites or credit thieves. In fact, many faith 742 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:11,400 Speaker 1: healers are practicing and well good faith. It's true. There 743 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:16,240 Speaker 1: are undoubtedly people out there right now, maybe you listening, 744 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 1: who truly believe that what they're doing is helping someone. 745 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,319 Speaker 1: If they are a faith healer, if there're someone who 746 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 1: does lay on hands, no matter what the spirituality and 747 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,400 Speaker 1: belief of that person and the people that they're administering 748 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,719 Speaker 1: it to um and they believe that or they at 749 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,520 Speaker 1: least truly want to believe that because they want to 750 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:42,399 Speaker 1: help somebody, and they have the faith and belief in that, 751 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, and their abilities and the abilities of whatever 752 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 1: deity to apply that. So, you know, given given what 753 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,520 Speaker 1: we know about the policeitebo effect, what we've discussed on 754 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:58,680 Speaker 1: this episode and previous ones, depending on the perception of 755 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,600 Speaker 1: the person that the faith healing is being administered to 756 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:08,120 Speaker 1: the patient, it seems like this practice laying on hands 757 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:15,279 Speaker 1: could actually genuinely provably trigger those positive psychological changes in 758 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,399 Speaker 1: that person. And again that's why I bring up something 759 00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 1: like raiky where even if it's over a camera, someone 760 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,920 Speaker 1: like pulling your energy out right, having that time and 761 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:30,040 Speaker 1: the belief that it's working, it could do something to 762 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 1: your brain. Well, it could thirty percent at a time, 763 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,920 Speaker 1: right or more. In general, though, I mean, like with 764 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:42,600 Speaker 1: this whole quarantine situation, I think people are almost downplaying 765 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,080 Speaker 1: the mental health aspects of of what this is doing 766 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,040 Speaker 1: to people not having human touch, the ones that are 767 00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,919 Speaker 1: so paranoid about getting sick because maybe they have autoimmune 768 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,919 Speaker 1: uh issues or what have you, or they're older. Uh. 769 00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:01,800 Speaker 1: It's it's really difficult to overstay how important human contact 770 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,920 Speaker 1: and human touch is for just human beings in general. 771 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,480 Speaker 1: We're not designed to be isolated in this way. And 772 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,280 Speaker 1: and who knows if just the power of having someone 773 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,480 Speaker 1: physically touch you in a way that has a meaning 774 00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 1: imparted behind it, right, that is powerful in and of itself, 775 00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 1: And and and it's enough to turn some screws in 776 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,160 Speaker 1: your in your brain, that could then turn some screws 777 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,879 Speaker 1: in your body. And maybe it's not actually curing the thing, 778 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,800 Speaker 1: but it's sure as hell can make you feel better. Um. 779 00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,600 Speaker 1: You know, there's even this idea of self soothing where 780 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,440 Speaker 1: if you're going through anxiety, or if you're experiencing physiological 781 00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,200 Speaker 1: responses to anxiety, you can just touch hold yourself, you know, 782 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,759 Speaker 1: like literally give yourself a hug or or stroke your 783 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,000 Speaker 1: arm if there's no one else around. And that's got 784 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:52,840 Speaker 1: proven uh positive qualities as well. Um, no substitute for 785 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,440 Speaker 1: having somebody else do it though, right, So, I don't know. 786 00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,120 Speaker 1: I think a lot of this is really wrapped up 787 00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,839 Speaker 1: in that how the power of the power of human interaction, 788 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:03,440 Speaker 1: I think is at the core of all of this. 789 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,799 Speaker 1: And we know that regardless of whether or not you 790 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:11,600 Speaker 1: consider yourself a skeptic, there is at least evidence, we've 791 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:15,440 Speaker 1: at least built a case of how this stuff called 792 00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:20,560 Speaker 1: faith healing could impart psychological and physiological changes. It can 793 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: alleviate pain. Faith healing has a clear scientific path to 794 00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,040 Speaker 1: do that, but we have to remember alleviating a pain 795 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:35,200 Speaker 1: is not the same thing as curing and ailment. And many, 796 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:40,360 Speaker 1: many people who are with the with full sincerity practicing 797 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,800 Speaker 1: as faith healers have are you know, they're not trying 798 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,960 Speaker 1: to rip people off, They're not trying to harm people. Uh. 799 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,520 Speaker 1: They may in many cases be saying, hey, let's go 800 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:55,200 Speaker 1: through this process together, and also let's do that in 801 00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,120 Speaker 1: addition to traditional medical care, you know what I mean. 802 00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,160 Speaker 1: These things aren't always at logger heads, even though that 803 00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,680 Speaker 1: would make for uh, you know, a more sensationalistic story. 804 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,560 Speaker 1: A lot of these faith healers, again not the con artists, 805 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,880 Speaker 1: the people who really believe in what they're doing. They 806 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,600 Speaker 1: will say that they are working with powers human beings 807 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,319 Speaker 1: do not readily understand, and to a degree that is 808 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:25,240 Speaker 1: absolutely true from everything we know about this process right now. However, 809 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:30,280 Speaker 1: it seems that the power at hand, the prime mover here, 810 00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 1: is science rather than something divide. But we can't prove 811 00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,200 Speaker 1: that it's not something divine. We can just prove that. 812 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: Over the course of history, a lot of people have 813 00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:51,800 Speaker 1: abused the the concept of having divinity or experiencing divinity 814 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,680 Speaker 1: or channeling it. Yeah, I mean I like that point 815 00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:59,040 Speaker 1: because we see here the character of humanity writ large. 816 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:03,280 Speaker 1: We see some male valence, right, we see lack of ethics, 817 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,640 Speaker 1: but then we also see inspiration. Right. We see people 818 00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:08,640 Speaker 1: trying to help each other, which is one of the 819 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:13,400 Speaker 1: most beautiful things this species can do. And we know 820 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,840 Speaker 1: that we know, as we always say when we're addressing 821 00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,799 Speaker 1: matters of faith, we're showing that faith does have a 822 00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:25,160 Speaker 1: scientific impact on individually human life like another another thing 823 00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:29,239 Speaker 1: would another you know, pin to put in this conspiracy 824 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,319 Speaker 1: board is the fact that strong faith in something can 825 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:38,080 Speaker 1: help bolster the human immune system. Your body seems to 826 00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:42,160 Speaker 1: know when you believe in something. That's maybe a very 827 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,279 Speaker 1: simplistic way to put it, but it holds true. And 828 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,479 Speaker 1: we want to hear what you think. Have you where 829 00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:54,919 Speaker 1: someone you know experienced firsthand, I'll stop faith that that 830 00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,839 Speaker 1: that appeared to work, right, And do you believe this 831 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:02,200 Speaker 1: can be explained through something like the placebo effect or 832 00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,560 Speaker 1: to your earlier point Noll, the power we feel, the 833 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,320 Speaker 1: way our bodies and our hormones and our intecrine systems 834 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,480 Speaker 1: respond to human contact. What do you think about some 835 00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,560 Speaker 1: of the research here? Do you think that science maybe 836 00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:22,240 Speaker 1: should not attempt to explain faith healing? Should it exist separately? Well? 837 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,080 Speaker 1: Like should? Right? Is this something that I don't know? Man, 838 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,560 Speaker 1: Like it's one of those things where it's like, aren't 839 00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:33,359 Speaker 1: something's better left to the realm of the metaphysical as 840 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,279 Speaker 1: opposed to trying to like explain them with science. I 841 00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:40,799 Speaker 1: don't know, Like I think some things about religion are 842 00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,120 Speaker 1: wrapped up in the placebo effect. To me, in general, 843 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,560 Speaker 1: they can make you feel better even if quote what 844 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:50,200 Speaker 1: you're quote unquote believing in isn't provable. That's what faith is, right, 845 00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,480 Speaker 1: So I mean, like, do you do we want science 846 00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,360 Speaker 1: to explain whether there is there isn't a God? Doesn't 847 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,080 Speaker 1: that kind of fly in the face of the whole 848 00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:02,839 Speaker 1: concept of faith. That's the whole point of science. If 849 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:07,960 Speaker 1: there is some invisible hand guiding everything, then science is 850 00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:09,960 Speaker 1: kind of a buzz kill sometimes, Like, I don't know. 851 00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,080 Speaker 1: I'm not a religious person. I'm not, but I would 852 00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,759 Speaker 1: consider myself a spiritual person. And I don't know that 853 00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,880 Speaker 1: I need science to to put that in a box 854 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,200 Speaker 1: for me. You know, I don't know like I should 855 00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,000 Speaker 1: to hear what listeners? What? What? What? You? What? You? 856 00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:26,880 Speaker 1: What you folks think? And it also reminds me of 857 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:32,719 Speaker 1: Arthur C. Clark's famous quote, any sufficiently advanced technology, well 858 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,480 Speaker 1: just insert science here, maybe indistinguishable from magic. It also 859 00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,319 Speaker 1: reminds me for anybody who is interested in the intersection 860 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,279 Speaker 1: between technology and the divine. If you have not read 861 00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,280 Speaker 1: it yet and you have a spare ten minutes sometime 862 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,239 Speaker 1: after you listen to this, please check out the Nine 863 00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,520 Speaker 1: Billion Names of God. It's a short story. I won't 864 00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,799 Speaker 1: spoil the ending, but it is just chef's kiss, top 865 00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,120 Speaker 1: notch reading. Uh. And while you're on the internet, Uh, 866 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,239 Speaker 1: let snow was something about your take on some of 867 00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:06,040 Speaker 1: these questions we post. You can find us all over 868 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:11,040 Speaker 1: the place. Uh, except on a couple of live journal. 869 00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,240 Speaker 1: It's just they got too popular. They won't answer our emails. 870 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,919 Speaker 1: You guys, we got a message about Pinterest. We got 871 00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:21,480 Speaker 1: um educated. Are we being shamed being Pinterest? No, it's 872 00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,719 Speaker 1: very kind actually about Hey, here's exactly what pinterest is 873 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:26,200 Speaker 1: and what you use it for and how I use 874 00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,480 Speaker 1: it and thanks for writing in on that one, because 875 00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,839 Speaker 1: I too remember the days when access to Pinterest was 876 00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,800 Speaker 1: a pretty exclusive thing. There was sort of a digital 877 00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,000 Speaker 1: velvet roop around it. That's Catherine by the way, Thanks Catherine, 878 00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,200 Speaker 1: Thank you, Catherine. So you can find us at the 879 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:48,279 Speaker 1: dive bars and uh gin joints of the Internet, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. 880 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,839 Speaker 1: Uh you can find us on Facebook and Twitter as 881 00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:55,839 Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff. We're on Instagram as Conspiracy Stuff Show. If 882 00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,319 Speaker 1: you wish, you can also find us as an individuals 883 00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,759 Speaker 1: on social media. Um, I am on Instagram at how Now, 884 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:06,279 Speaker 1: Noel Brown, I am at Matt Frederick Underscore iHeart and 885 00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,120 Speaker 1: special shout out to all the A s m artists 886 00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:13,640 Speaker 1: out there, thanks for helping us all get to sleep 887 00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:17,399 Speaker 1: easier and comforting us in these lonely times with your 888 00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,839 Speaker 1: virtual faith healing and reiky sessions that I looked at 889 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,480 Speaker 1: for this episode. And of course special thanks to our 890 00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,520 Speaker 1: fellow listeners who write in every so often to say 891 00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:30,600 Speaker 1: love your show. It helps us fall asleep. That's all 892 00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,600 Speaker 1: my favorites. Yeah, you can find me Twitter at Ben 893 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:37,240 Speaker 1: bolland hs W. What's the h s W? For longtime listeners. 894 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,000 Speaker 1: You know. You can also find me on Instagram at 895 00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,560 Speaker 1: Ben Bolland. But I hate social media, you say, shaking 896 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,440 Speaker 1: your fist at the sky. I have no faith that 897 00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,200 Speaker 1: there's a salve for that. I'm a phone call person. 898 00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:54,560 Speaker 1: Well you are in luck. Our number is one eight 899 00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:58,560 Speaker 1: three three st d w y t K. Leave us 900 00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,560 Speaker 1: a message it exactly what you want to say, anything 901 00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,040 Speaker 1: you want to say, everything you can. You can have 902 00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,080 Speaker 1: a musical soundtrack, although we probably can't play that in 903 00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,319 Speaker 1: the background because we wouldn't be able to afford the rights. 904 00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,360 Speaker 1: Unless you're playing the music and it's your own original 905 00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,160 Speaker 1: score and you send us a license agreement, it'll get complicated. 906 00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:20,040 Speaker 1: Justin's you can just hum it now or or whatever, 907 00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,640 Speaker 1: play it on the kazoo, or just use your voice. 908 00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:24,960 Speaker 1: Whatever you want to do, give us a call. If 909 00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,320 Speaker 1: you don't want to do that, you can always give 910 00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:31,880 Speaker 1: us an old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at iHeart 911 00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:53,480 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know 912 00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,680 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts 913 00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:58,919 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 914 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,880 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.