WEBVTT - Queer Utopia 2069 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:04.920 Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:09.280 queer sex. Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities. 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.520 If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.079 offends your sensibilities, you might want to skip this. Viewer 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:23.520 discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids. So gay, yes, Chris, 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.280 Do you ever think about the future all the time? 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.400 Okay? It makes me deeply anxious? 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:30.280 Okay, In the back of my head, there's a little 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.760 voice that's like, the world is slowly slipping toward fascism 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:34.960 and we need to stop it correct, which is like 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.680 kind of objectively true. What I can do about it 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:40.760 is quite limited, but there are things we can do 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:42.680 about it. So I have like lost faith in the future, 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:47.000 But I do I worry about like complacency, and you 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:49.440 worry about people not thinking critically about the things that 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.839 we are taught and told and the values that we uphold, 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.760 the images of your fed Yeah, and I do think 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.080 about like some of the progress that we've made over years, 0:00:58.080 --> 0:00:59.960 and like what kind of progress you could. 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:02.200 Make, which is like undeniable, right, Like we definitely have 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.200 been making progress over the years, like we are in 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.360 somewhat of a better place, but there is like you're saying, 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:09.800 like there is a lot of work to do. 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.440 Chris, do you think about the future very much like you? 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:15.160 I am hopeful. 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:19.399 I think that this generation is really questioning everything in 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.399 a way that like we weren't afforded that luxury. We 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:24.880 are in some really difficult times and we are facing 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.720 some really difficult things, and I do pray for a 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.679 better future. And I think about the young people that 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.080 I'm encounter that I encounter in my day to day life, 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:36.880 and I see how they show up in the world 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:39.080 and how they look at the world, and like, these 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:41.119 kids are going to do it right. You know, they're 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.720 not gonna stay with the status quo, and they really 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:47.279 are going to start to question things. And that brings 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:48.240 me a lot of joy. 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.200 Question people in power, question where the money comes from, 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:53.840 where the money is going truly, And if anyone tells 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:57.720 you that an institution or a government is above criticism 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.080 of approach, that probably means we. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.440 Should be looking into what's what's going on. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.600 Right that said, I do think it's easy to talk 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.280 about what we don't want in the world, right, Hate, discrimination, corruption, 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.760 violence against our communities. But what kind of future do 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.520 we want to see? On today's episodes, we're doing things 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.440 a little differently. For the past ten episodes, we've welcomed 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:23.440 extraordinary thinkers, kinksters and queer minds. We've talked to coumdumps, poets, filmmakers, 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.080 sex workers and other really horny people just like you. 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:29.000 And at the end of every interview we actually asked 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:31.639 them a follow up question that you never got to hear, 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:32.720 but today you. 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.440 Will the question queer utopia? What does it look like? 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.040 What could it look like? And what would it look like? 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.320 In twenty sixty nine, on the hundredth anniversary of the 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.400 stmar Riots that ignited a global queer rights movement and 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:46.400 paved the way for some of us to have some 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.720 freedoms that we enjoy today, Welcome. 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:49.799 To Stiffy's Cruising Confessions. 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:54.560 I am Gabe Blonsilers, I'm Chris Patterson Rosso. Each week 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:58.520 weeks for the Sublime World of Queer Sex, cruising and Relationships. 0:02:57.960 --> 0:02:59.799 Will be talking to queer folks of all kinds, ask 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:01.280 them questions, swap sex. 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.680 Stories, share intimate revelations. A lot of us are discovering 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.120 ourselves in cruising spaces. 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.280 This happened to me at this toilet stall, in the 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:09.560 library or the airport. 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.280 I feel like everybody's gonna fuck a little harder here, damn. 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:14.720 So I've been like the neighborhood flat and I took 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:15.720 pride in that. 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.720 I was so afraid but yet so intrigued. 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:20.880 And the more I gave him, the more people think, 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.240 if you're having sex on Sniffy's, you already have a 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:26.119 moral deficit. 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:31.280 First of all, Gabe, what does queer. 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:32.120 Utopia mean to you? 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.760 When I'm thinking about the idea of queer utopia, there 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:36.800 is one name that immediately comes to mind for me, 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:40.440 and that's Jose Munos. I first encountered his work in college, 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:42.760 and I was like, okay, work like a queer Latino 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.120 talking about queer shit and an academic setting, like getting 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.280 hired to do this, Like I love this, And also 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.160 I was like, what is the cheat code to enter 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.440 to get this job. So, in his second book called 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:58.720 Cruising Utopia, the then and There of Queer Futurity, described 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.320 as part manifesto heart love letter to the past in 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:05.000 the future, he frames queer utopia as this potentiality or 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.800 sort of longing like it's an ideal that is bound 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.960 to the future in a way that has to reject 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.720 the very stagnant or normative present. The short term solutions 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.160 that we find to cope or survive are what Munno's 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.960 call straight time. Right, We're like operating in straight time 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:19.600 in the present. 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.160 It's like we know very familiar exactly right. 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.320 So queer utopia is something that we're constantly moving towards 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:28.240 what is just out of reach, right. It is something 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:32.040 that necessitates the activation or the reactivation of queer imagination 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.599 and sometimes involves looking toward the past to reimagine the future, 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:37.800 which is a theme we'll also hear about from many 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:39.960 of our guests today. That is not to say that 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.839 we can't experience glimpses of what queer utopia could be 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:47.280 in our own social interactions. We get closer to utopia 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.320 when we tap into our collective ability to imagine what. 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:50.800 It looks like. 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:52.680 I mean, I could talk about Munos for hours. There's 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:56.200 my quick little spark notes version very heavily paraphrasing, but 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.120 I thought he would be a great way to kick 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:00.640 us off for this episode, talking about his work and 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:02.839 how his work can help us frame how we think 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.120 about the theme of today's episode, right, utopia being something 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:10.560 that we are moving toward but maybe cannot enact or 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.080 live through. Ever in our present moment, it's like always 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:15.400 always just right there. 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:17.760 Yeah, And I think, you know, New York City is 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.440 my queer utopia. It was one of the reasons why 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.520 I moved here, and definitely after my first visit at seventeen, 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.840 I immediately felt safe and seen here in a way 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.560 that I didn't experience growing up in the Pacific Northwest, 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.760 you know, which is sort of known to be progressive 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.120 in whatever, but it really isn't in so many ways, 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.480 and especially as a black queer person, like I never 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:41.360 really felt safe, and I didn't realize that until I left, 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.159 you know. And once I came here, I just seeing 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.360 brown folks and seeing queer folks just like living their 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.400 lives authentically just felt like a utopia. 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:51.560 And so I just have never left. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.159 I think New York is probably the closest I've gotten 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.560 to like approaching utopia. If I'm borrowing from Muno's because 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:00.279 in his books, she talks a lot about like things 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.360 like marriage or queers in the military are not utopic, 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.560 They're they're the survival strategies and coping mechanistimes of now 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:08.640 totally right. So it's like when I was in Florida, 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:10.880 my parents would be like, oh, we accept you now, 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:12.159 like you can get married, And I was like, that's 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.000 not utopic to me. Like to me, it's like I 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.120 don't know, being in a massive bodies at like four 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:18.920 am at a New Year's party where there's like one 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.800 little skylight and they're all like whoa or like you 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:23.200 know what I mean. Just like thinking about the way 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:25.920 relate to people. So much of my life fundamentally changed 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.240 when I found queer community here. Yeah, and I'm like, 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.719 I love whatever this reimagining of the present is because 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.440 it's it really is rethinking and reimagining the ways we socialize. 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:39.640 Yeah, And I think just like seeing queer people invisible 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.880 roles in my day to day life was really amazing 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:44.719 to me, Like going to the bank or going to 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.320 the grocery store or just going to the bodega and 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.800 seeing queer people just like live lives, which is like 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.880 mind blowing to me because from where I'm from, most 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:54.880 people we just hit until we went to the bars 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:57.000 and then that's when we saw each other. But outside 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.360 of that we were very much living on straight time 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.880 and just like assimilating and hiding and like just like 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:07.039 not being able to hide, just like felt so impactful. 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:09.480 All right, So let's turn to our first guests this season. 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.920 Do you remember who our first two guests were? Scott Carsley, yes, 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:17.960 two thousand load come down? Oh yeah, I do remember that. 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:24.080 And our second Yeah, our second guest was Leo Yessing, 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.880 expert our historian. Yes, I love that. So do we 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:29.360 get to hear what they had to say? Let's take 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:29.720 a look. 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:32.880 I'm gonna set the scene for you. 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.440 It is twenty sixty nine, the one hundreds of anniversary 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:39.000 of Stonewall. What kind of queer utopia would you like 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.120 to see this world become by that time? 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:43.800 So you may have noticed that I appear not to 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.520 have a face today, And to be honest with you, 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.200 there are really important reasons why I have to protect 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:54.520 my identity because it could impact my life. It could 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.000 impact professional growth, it could impact people judging me, it 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.440 could impact my social life. And I would laugh in 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:03.880 the future for that not to be necessary for me, 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.360 because I don't feel shame about it. I'm proud of 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.400 what I've done and I'm proud of my you know, 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:11.840 kink life as a come dum, and I would love 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.600 to be able to share that with people and people 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.200 to know and be able to talk about it at 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.280 any random party, you know, like, oh wow, you've done 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:21.200 a really good job with that, And that would be 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:22.800 my dream for the future. Do not have to worry 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.080 about that so much. A bit of a gay history 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:27.200 here that you know, many people may know. And I'm 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.040 probably not going to get this exactly right, but back 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:31.960 in the early days of the gay rights movement, there 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:36.920 was famously the Manachine Society that advocated very loudly to say, 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.480 gays are just like straits and you should treat us 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.440 equally because we're just like you, and that was a 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.800 really important and valuable work that they did. But one 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.200 of the founders of the Matachine Society said, you know what, 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:53.559 screw this. People are not treating us equally, and we 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.480 are different. We are our own culture. So we're going 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:58.600 to go create our own movement, the radical fairies. 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:02.439 I think you're talking about. Correct, that's it, that's it, that's. 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:06.280 It, and and you know, that sort of little movement 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.280 into saying, you know what, we're not we're not actually 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.920 exactly the same. I would love that to enter into 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.559 the culturals like geist and people to be aware of 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.400 you know what, maybe I don't have to understand every 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:20.120 aspect of gay society, but they have a different culture 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:20.360 in that. 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:21.040 So okay. 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.199 You know you were talking earlier about just like being 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.080 able to be open as a cum dump and how 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.320 it could potentially hurt your career, and I think it 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.280 goes back to like representation, Like I for myself, I 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.920 always say that, like I want the world to see 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.000 all the different facets of myself and not have any 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:37.319 of them diminish another. 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:37.840 Part of myself. 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.240 Right, Absolutely, I am a sex positive person, but I 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.040 also have a nonprofit. I also am a performer, Right, 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.280 I have all these things and none of those things 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:48.560 diminish the other. And I think that like that career 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.240 utopia you're talking about, those things can be true. 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.439 People talk about it a lot, especially like progressive companies 0:09:54.440 --> 0:10:00.360 like Bring Your Full Authentic Work. There's never going to 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.360 be a moment where you're going to talk about explicit 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.640 sex acts with co work, correct, But like you can 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.719 say like oh yeah, I had a fun scene or 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:09.760 I did a fun filming and be able to like 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.120 mention that in a work situation. Yeah, that would be great. 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:14.720 I'm really glad that you kind of bring up this 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.040 historical historical perspective to it as well, because it's like 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.120 you go back in time, like lavender scare fifties and sixties, 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:24.880 It's like even identifying as a queer or trans person 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.120 or a gay person could have gotten you fired from 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:30.959 a job right like years later, being a sex worker 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:33.000 or being porn could get you fired from jobs, And 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.280 like the sort of culture surrounding. 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:36.719 OnlyFans is maybe changing that. 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:38.480 So it's like I feel like we are sort of 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.720 at an inflection point where the stigma that we hold 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.720 towards sex is sort of being dismantled and the fact 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.760 that we can own that and talk about how sex 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.040 work is work and we do all have sex and 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:51.800 it doesn't have to dictate our lives, but it is 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:53.760 a part of who we are, and it's a healthy 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:55.959 part of who we are. I mean, I think having 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.200 seen that change throughout history does kind of, you know, 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:00.240 I think, give me a little hope for the sure. 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:02.240 Yeah, And I'm very curious to see if there's some 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.920 aspect of that in culture more broadly, like I do 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.480 feel like there's less stigma even in the straight community 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.800 around casual sex. That being said, I do still think 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.400 there's going to be a distinction, like it's never going 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.000 to be one and the same because it's different. 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:18.920 Well, they call it sex and we call it baarbacking. 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:27.800 So I think, for me, a queer utopia is a 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:31.040 group full of queer people who are one hundred percent 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:35.800 comfortable with themselves and unaffected by a lot of the 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.880 outside negative forces that we've had to deal with, like 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:43.160 disease and the law, and have a space to just 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:48.400 explore our own needs and desires outside of those forces, 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:52.240 and to have a room full of people doing that 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:54.800 same work and enjoying the benefits of that same work, 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.160 And that could look like a party, that could look 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.480 like a religious ritual, that could look like a potla. 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:05.280 For me, utopia always means us being comfortable in our 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:05.839 own skin. 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:09.400 Are they saying the. 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:11.280 Same thing I think they are. 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.520 I think what they're pointing toward is a sort of 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.200 queer liberation, but like a very holistic approach to that. 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:16.559 Right. 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.280 It's not just like queer liberation politically, it's like sexually, 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.439 it's socially it's being able to build community without fear 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.320 of violence for who you are. I do think there's 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.520 some strong parallels between that. I am also interested in 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.920 the language that folks use. I think Scott uses the 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.320 word gay and lou uses the word queer, which I think, 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.880 you know, I see those words used interchangeably, but I 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:39.760 also think they have different subtexts to them. I think 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.000 they do identify as queer, And I also think that 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.599 has a lot to do with my not binary experience, 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:47.840 Like I just don't identify with gay because like I 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:49.600 hear gay, and I think of gay white men, and 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:51.960 like I am neither of those things. 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:59.040 Queer just feels more expansive and feels more diverse than gay. 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:01.840 Yeah, I've always thought of gay as a word to 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.839 describe someone's sexuality, but queer as a way to describe 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:10.160 like sexuality, identity and like personal politicians. 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:12.520 Ok, Yeah, Like yeah, to me, queer. 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.720 Feels like I'm like, oh, if you're saying queer, I'm like, 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.240 I get an idea of who you are and what 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:18.560 you believe in, And if. 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:19.680 You tell me gay, I'm like, oh, that could be 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:21.760 a lot. There's a very wide range. 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:25.080 But yeah, it's like oddly gay is the broader umbrella 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.200 term there. But like, yeah, so many of the people 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.120 that we talked to envision utopias like a world where 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:33.280 they could just be left alone, like where they are 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.280 just allowed to live without judgment, and some of them 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.800 felt like it was actually kind of happening. I think 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.560 about Xavier Blanco who stopped by to talk about his 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.840 life as a sex worker earlier in the season, and 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.400 some of what he said about queer utopia, let's check 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:47.680 it out. 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.839 I think actually my little brother and sister are living 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.920 a little bit of queer utopia. My brother's twenty seven, 0:13:56.000 --> 0:14:00.160 my sister is twenty six, and my little brother as 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.080 a gay friend and a queer friend, I should say, 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.880 and I found it so strange, and he's like bro, 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.920 like he's a person. So for me, career utopia would 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:13.679 be that where it's a place where our sexual endeavors 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.960 does not justify or dictate how we interact with one another, 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.600 as well as like having of course sex workers rights 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.920 and just living a life where we're not really judging 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.040 each other for what we're doing behind closed doors. Like 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.960 so my career utopia would be like stop stigmatizing our 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:31.120 sex lives, and. 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:32.800 Even if we're not doing it behind closed doors, it 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:33.480 shouldn't be right. 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.320 We're saying, maybe we're dancing about a little box at 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.280 Metropolitan is so. 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:44.880 Tiny, that box is so that box is literal. That's 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:45.600 queer utopia. 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:50.000 Bigger, bigger, go go boxes and everything truly and stable ones. 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:55.040 Actually I'd rather stable big, like the stability. I feel 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:56.400 the same way about my men. 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.600 Another Yes, the bars tic Dash expresses similar sentiment in 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:03.880 his response. 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:08.960 I think we'd have to acknowledge that our queer forefathers 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.240 who didn't get to see today would feel like we're 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.480 in a queer utopia right now, even though right now 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.600 does feel scary. A lot of my work is in, 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.840 you know, advocating for queer and trans people of color 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.520 and like equity in all spaces. And one of the 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.440 kind of like quotes I guess I live by is 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:34.040 rising tides float all boats. And if we think about 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.200 who the most marginalized people are in our community, it 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.120 is trans people of color, and I think we need 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.720 to focus on rising their tide. 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:45.760 Rising tides flow boats. 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.480 Yes, I love that sentiment because I feel like it 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.600 like there is this notion that if like these people 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.280 have rights, then I will have less rights. 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.600 And like, no, babes, that's how that works, not how 0:15:58.640 --> 0:15:59.120 that works. 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.320 We're not actually taking anything away from you. You will 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.200 still have the access to all of the things that 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:05.200 you've always had. 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.239 We will just also have access to this things. 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.520 I mean, we've seen these connections so often, like in 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.120 the women's rights movement and the civil rights movement and 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.520 the queer rights movement. It's like, if systems of oppression 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.520 are being used to oppress one marginalized group, they will 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.200 be used against other groups and other groups until finally 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.160 they're used against you. Yes, and so understanding that helping 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.560 other people succeed, survive, and thrive in this world will 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.160 only help all of us do It is like a 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.520 lesson you'd think we would have learned from. 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.760 Like an elementary school, or maybe truly one of the 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:38.320 most basic ideas. 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.720 And yet it's like, oh, well, like trans people want 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:42.360 special rights. 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:44.040 No, trans just want to exist. 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.000 Yeah, Like they just want to go to school, they 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.040 want to use the bathroom, they just want to like live. 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.640 I love the idea that my tax scholars could go 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:54.960 to help someone afford healthcare that they can't afford. Like 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.360 I don't understand why people are so mad that the 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.120 government would spend money to port the livelihood and safety 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:03.400 of people of the nation. 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:04.640 It's like, when you look at. 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.399 Our budget, the amount that we spend on weapons and 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:08.760 war like far out paces what we spent in education 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:09.320 on health care. 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:10.359 All right, let's hear. 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.600 Two more answers to the questions from our two amazing 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.880 guests from our episode about cruising with trans Guys, filmmaker 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.600 Jules Roscombe and King Punk's hosts Santo's Jay ars. 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.160 I loved this episode. It was great. 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.560 So I actually did a project on utopia in twenty thirteen. 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.400 The conclusion I came to is that for me, utopia 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:35.000 is actually always fleeting, not unlike what Munno says. In 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.800 a way, for me, utopia is relational. So it's about 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.159 actually these fleeting moments of like amazing sex where we 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:45.399 transcend our bodies and we merge into one another, or 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.520 you know, even sharing a meal with someone or something 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.800 like that. It is like these these utopian moments as 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.600 opposed to place. But now my queer utopia is like 0:17:55.720 --> 0:18:00.360 really like an anti racist, anti capitalist, feminist state, So 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.639 it's really that's that's the place I want to be. 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:08.119 I want the downfall of the of the US colonial empire. 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:10.879 I want all of the genocides around the world to 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.359 come to an end. I want trans people to not be, 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:18.679 you know, constantly battling legislation that attempts to write us 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:23.000 out of history. I want the US to actually acknowledge 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.479 the you know, the settler project that it is and 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:28.800 make reparations. 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:30.480 Like this is my career utopia. 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.280 So let's picture It's twenty sixty nine. What does creery 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.399 utopia look like for you? What does it feel like? 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.119 I love to take it from the poster like fully 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:47.600 automated luxury space communism. Okay, so that's that's that's my ideal. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.040 You know, everybody's got good language in terms of consent, 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:55.400 there's no R word, and folks are just chillin and 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:59.680 fed and housed and you know, fucking as they please. 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:01.160 I want that too. 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:06.160 Imagine feeding people and housing them and having amazing sex. 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:08.400