Speaker 1: Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about
Speaker 1: queer sex. Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities.
Speaker 1: If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more
Speaker 1: offends your sensibilities, you might want to skip this. Viewer
Speaker 1: discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids. So gay, yes, Chris,
Speaker 1: Do you ever think about the future all the time?
Speaker 2: Okay? It makes me deeply anxious?
Speaker 1: Okay, In the back of my head, there's a little
Speaker 1: voice that's like, the world is slowly slipping toward fascism
Speaker 1: and we need to stop it correct, which is like
Speaker 1: kind of objectively true. What I can do about it
Speaker 1: is quite limited, but there are things we can do
Speaker 1: about it. So I have like lost faith in the future,
Speaker 1: But I do I worry about like complacency, and you
Speaker 1: worry about people not thinking critically about the things that
Speaker 1: we are taught and told and the values that we uphold,
Speaker 1: the images of your fed Yeah, and I do think
Speaker 1: about like some of the progress that we've made over years,
Speaker 1: and like what kind of progress you could.
Speaker 3: Make, which is like undeniable, right, Like we definitely have
Speaker 3: been making progress over the years, like we are in
Speaker 3: somewhat of a better place, but there is like you're saying,
Speaker 3: like there is a lot of work to do.
Speaker 2: Chris, do you think about the future very much like you?
Speaker 2: I am hopeful.
Speaker 3: I think that this generation is really questioning everything in
Speaker 3: a way that like we weren't afforded that luxury. We
Speaker 3: are in some really difficult times and we are facing
Speaker 3: some really difficult things, and I do pray for a
Speaker 3: better future. And I think about the young people that
Speaker 3: I'm encounter that I encounter in my day to day life,
Speaker 3: and I see how they show up in the world
Speaker 3: and how they look at the world, and like, these
Speaker 3: kids are going to do it right. You know, they're
Speaker 3: not gonna stay with the status quo, and they really
Speaker 3: are going to start to question things. And that brings
Speaker 3: me a lot of joy.
Speaker 1: Question people in power, question where the money comes from,
Speaker 1: where the money is going truly, And if anyone tells
Speaker 1: you that an institution or a government is above criticism
Speaker 1: of approach, that probably means we.
Speaker 2: Should be looking into what's what's going on.
Speaker 1: Right that said, I do think it's easy to talk
Speaker 1: about what we don't want in the world, right, Hate, discrimination, corruption,
Speaker 1: violence against our communities. But what kind of future do
Speaker 1: we want to see? On today's episodes, we're doing things
Speaker 1: a little differently. For the past ten episodes, we've welcomed
Speaker 1: extraordinary thinkers, kinksters and queer minds. We've talked to coumdumps, poets, filmmakers,
Speaker 1: sex workers and other really horny people just like you.
Speaker 1: And at the end of every interview we actually asked
Speaker 1: them a follow up question that you never got to hear,
Speaker 1: but today you.
Speaker 3: Will the question queer utopia? What does it look like?
Speaker 3: What could it look like? And what would it look like?
Speaker 3: In twenty sixty nine, on the hundredth anniversary of the
Speaker 3: stmar Riots that ignited a global queer rights movement and
Speaker 3: paved the way for some of us to have some
Speaker 3: freedoms that we enjoy today, Welcome.
Speaker 2: To Stiffy's Cruising Confessions.
Speaker 3: I am Gabe Blonsilers, I'm Chris Patterson Rosso. Each week
Speaker 3: weeks for the Sublime World of Queer Sex, cruising and Relationships.
Speaker 1: Will be talking to queer folks of all kinds, ask
Speaker 1: them questions, swap sex.
Speaker 2: Stories, share intimate revelations. A lot of us are discovering
Speaker 2: ourselves in cruising spaces.
Speaker 4: This happened to me at this toilet stall, in the
Speaker 4: library or the airport.
Speaker 2: I feel like everybody's gonna fuck a little harder here, damn.
Speaker 5: So I've been like the neighborhood flat and I took
Speaker 5: pride in that.
Speaker 2: I was so afraid but yet so intrigued.
Speaker 6: And the more I gave him, the more people think,
Speaker 6: if you're having sex on Sniffy's, you already have a
Speaker 6: moral deficit.
Speaker 2: First of all, Gabe, what does queer.
Speaker 7: Utopia mean to you?
Speaker 1: When I'm thinking about the idea of queer utopia, there
Speaker 1: is one name that immediately comes to mind for me,
Speaker 1: and that's Jose Munos. I first encountered his work in college,
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, work like a queer Latino
Speaker 1: talking about queer shit and an academic setting, like getting
Speaker 1: hired to do this, Like I love this, And also
Speaker 1: I was like, what is the cheat code to enter
Speaker 1: to get this job. So, in his second book called
Speaker 1: Cruising Utopia, the then and There of Queer Futurity, described
Speaker 1: as part manifesto heart love letter to the past in
Speaker 1: the future, he frames queer utopia as this potentiality or
Speaker 1: sort of longing like it's an ideal that is bound
Speaker 1: to the future in a way that has to reject
Speaker 1: the very stagnant or normative present. The short term solutions
Speaker 1: that we find to cope or survive are what Munno's
Speaker 1: call straight time. Right, We're like operating in straight time
Speaker 1: in the present.
Speaker 2: It's like we know very familiar exactly right.
Speaker 1: So queer utopia is something that we're constantly moving towards
Speaker 1: what is just out of reach, right. It is something
Speaker 1: that necessitates the activation or the reactivation of queer imagination
Speaker 1: and sometimes involves looking toward the past to reimagine the future,
Speaker 1: which is a theme we'll also hear about from many
Speaker 1: of our guests today. That is not to say that
Speaker 1: we can't experience glimpses of what queer utopia could be
Speaker 1: in our own social interactions. We get closer to utopia
Speaker 1: when we tap into our collective ability to imagine what.
Speaker 2: It looks like.
Speaker 1: I mean, I could talk about Munos for hours. There's
Speaker 1: my quick little spark notes version very heavily paraphrasing, but
Speaker 1: I thought he would be a great way to kick
Speaker 1: us off for this episode, talking about his work and
Speaker 1: how his work can help us frame how we think
Speaker 1: about the theme of today's episode, right, utopia being something
Speaker 1: that we are moving toward but maybe cannot enact or
Speaker 1: live through. Ever in our present moment, it's like always
Speaker 1: always just right there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think, you know, New York City is
Speaker 3: my queer utopia. It was one of the reasons why
Speaker 3: I moved here, and definitely after my first visit at seventeen,
Speaker 3: I immediately felt safe and seen here in a way
Speaker 3: that I didn't experience growing up in the Pacific Northwest,
Speaker 3: you know, which is sort of known to be progressive
Speaker 3: in whatever, but it really isn't in so many ways,
Speaker 3: and especially as a black queer person, like I never
Speaker 3: really felt safe, and I didn't realize that until I left,
Speaker 3: you know. And once I came here, I just seeing
Speaker 3: brown folks and seeing queer folks just like living their
Speaker 3: lives authentically just felt like a utopia.
Speaker 2: And so I just have never left.
Speaker 1: I think New York is probably the closest I've gotten
Speaker 1: to like approaching utopia. If I'm borrowing from Muno's because
Speaker 1: in his books, she talks a lot about like things
Speaker 1: like marriage or queers in the military are not utopic,
Speaker 1: They're they're the survival strategies and coping mechanistimes of now
Speaker 1: totally right. So it's like when I was in Florida,
Speaker 1: my parents would be like, oh, we accept you now,
Speaker 1: like you can get married, And I was like, that's
Speaker 1: not utopic to me. Like to me, it's like I
Speaker 1: don't know, being in a massive bodies at like four
Speaker 1: am at a New Year's party where there's like one
Speaker 1: little skylight and they're all like whoa or like you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Just like thinking about the way
Speaker 1: relate to people. So much of my life fundamentally changed
Speaker 1: when I found queer community here. Yeah, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I love whatever this reimagining of the present is because
Speaker 1: it's it really is rethinking and reimagining the ways we socialize.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think just like seeing queer people invisible
Speaker 3: roles in my day to day life was really amazing
Speaker 3: to me, Like going to the bank or going to
Speaker 3: the grocery store or just going to the bodega and
Speaker 3: seeing queer people just like live lives, which is like
Speaker 3: mind blowing to me because from where I'm from, most
Speaker 3: people we just hit until we went to the bars
Speaker 3: and then that's when we saw each other. But outside
Speaker 3: of that we were very much living on straight time
Speaker 3: and just like assimilating and hiding and like just like
Speaker 3: not being able to hide, just like felt so impactful.
Speaker 3: All right, So let's turn to our first guests this season.
Speaker 3: Do you remember who our first two guests were? Scott Carsley, yes,
Speaker 3: two thousand load come down? Oh yeah, I do remember that.
Speaker 1: And our second Yeah, our second guest was Leo Yessing,
Speaker 1: expert our historian. Yes, I love that. So do we
Speaker 1: get to hear what they had to say? Let's take
Speaker 1: a look.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna set the scene for you.
Speaker 1: It is twenty sixty nine, the one hundreds of anniversary
Speaker 1: of Stonewall. What kind of queer utopia would you like
Speaker 1: to see this world become by that time?
Speaker 7: So you may have noticed that I appear not to
Speaker 7: have a face today, And to be honest with you,
Speaker 7: there are really important reasons why I have to protect
Speaker 7: my identity because it could impact my life. It could
Speaker 7: impact professional growth, it could impact people judging me, it
Speaker 7: could impact my social life. And I would laugh in
Speaker 7: the future for that not to be necessary for me,
Speaker 7: because I don't feel shame about it. I'm proud of
Speaker 7: what I've done and I'm proud of my you know,
Speaker 7: kink life as a come dum, and I would love
Speaker 7: to be able to share that with people and people
Speaker 7: to know and be able to talk about it at
Speaker 7: any random party, you know, like, oh wow, you've done
Speaker 7: a really good job with that, And that would be
Speaker 7: my dream for the future. Do not have to worry
Speaker 7: about that so much. A bit of a gay history
Speaker 7: here that you know, many people may know. And I'm
Speaker 7: probably not going to get this exactly right, but back
Speaker 7: in the early days of the gay rights movement, there
Speaker 7: was famously the Manachine Society that advocated very loudly to say,
Speaker 7: gays are just like straits and you should treat us
Speaker 7: equally because we're just like you, and that was a
Speaker 7: really important and valuable work that they did. But one
Speaker 7: of the founders of the Matachine Society said, you know what,
Speaker 7: screw this. People are not treating us equally, and we
Speaker 7: are different. We are our own culture. So we're going
Speaker 7: to go create our own movement, the radical fairies.
Speaker 2: I think you're talking about. Correct, that's it, that's it, that's.
Speaker 7: It, and and you know, that sort of little movement
Speaker 7: into saying, you know what, we're not we're not actually
Speaker 7: exactly the same. I would love that to enter into
Speaker 7: the culturals like geist and people to be aware of
Speaker 7: you know what, maybe I don't have to understand every
Speaker 7: aspect of gay society, but they have a different culture
Speaker 7: in that.
Speaker 2: So okay.
Speaker 3: You know you were talking earlier about just like being
Speaker 3: able to be open as a cum dump and how
Speaker 3: it could potentially hurt your career, and I think it
Speaker 3: goes back to like representation, Like I for myself, I
Speaker 3: always say that, like I want the world to see
Speaker 3: all the different facets of myself and not have any
Speaker 3: of them diminish another.
Speaker 2: Part of myself.
Speaker 3: Right, Absolutely, I am a sex positive person, but I
Speaker 3: also have a nonprofit. I also am a performer, Right,
Speaker 3: I have all these things and none of those things
Speaker 3: diminish the other. And I think that like that career
Speaker 3: utopia you're talking about, those things can be true.
Speaker 7: People talk about it a lot, especially like progressive companies
Speaker 7: like Bring Your Full Authentic Work. There's never going to
Speaker 7: be a moment where you're going to talk about explicit
Speaker 7: sex acts with co work, correct, But like you can
Speaker 7: say like oh yeah, I had a fun scene or
Speaker 7: I did a fun filming and be able to like
Speaker 7: mention that in a work situation. Yeah, that would be great.
Speaker 1: I'm really glad that you kind of bring up this
Speaker 1: historical historical perspective to it as well, because it's like
Speaker 1: you go back in time, like lavender scare fifties and sixties,
Speaker 1: It's like even identifying as a queer or trans person
Speaker 1: or a gay person could have gotten you fired from
Speaker 1: a job right like years later, being a sex worker
Speaker 1: or being porn could get you fired from jobs, And
Speaker 1: like the sort of culture surrounding.
Speaker 2: OnlyFans is maybe changing that.
Speaker 1: So it's like I feel like we are sort of
Speaker 1: at an inflection point where the stigma that we hold
Speaker 1: towards sex is sort of being dismantled and the fact
Speaker 1: that we can own that and talk about how sex
Speaker 1: work is work and we do all have sex and
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to dictate our lives, but it is
Speaker 1: a part of who we are, and it's a healthy
Speaker 1: part of who we are. I mean, I think having
Speaker 1: seen that change throughout history does kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: I think, give me a little hope for the sure.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I'm very curious to see if there's some
Speaker 7: aspect of that in culture more broadly, like I do
Speaker 7: feel like there's less stigma even in the straight community
Speaker 7: around casual sex. That being said, I do still think
Speaker 7: there's going to be a distinction, like it's never going
Speaker 7: to be one and the same because it's different.
Speaker 2: Well, they call it sex and we call it baarbacking.
Speaker 8: So I think, for me, a queer utopia is a
Speaker 8: group full of queer people who are one hundred percent
Speaker 8: comfortable with themselves and unaffected by a lot of the
Speaker 8: outside negative forces that we've had to deal with, like
Speaker 8: disease and the law, and have a space to just
Speaker 8: explore our own needs and desires outside of those forces,
Speaker 8: and to have a room full of people doing that
Speaker 8: same work and enjoying the benefits of that same work,
Speaker 8: And that could look like a party, that could look
Speaker 8: like a religious ritual, that could look like a potla.
Speaker 8: For me, utopia always means us being comfortable in our
Speaker 8: own skin.
Speaker 3: Are they saying the.
Speaker 2: Same thing I think they are.
Speaker 1: I think what they're pointing toward is a sort of
Speaker 1: queer liberation, but like a very holistic approach to that.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: It's not just like queer liberation politically, it's like sexually,
Speaker 1: it's socially it's being able to build community without fear
Speaker 1: of violence for who you are. I do think there's
Speaker 1: some strong parallels between that. I am also interested in
Speaker 1: the language that folks use. I think Scott uses the
Speaker 1: word gay and lou uses the word queer, which I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I see those words used interchangeably, but I
Speaker 1: also think they have different subtexts to them. I think
Speaker 1: they do identify as queer, And I also think that
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with my not binary experience,
Speaker 1: Like I just don't identify with gay because like I
Speaker 1: hear gay, and I think of gay white men, and
Speaker 1: like I am neither of those things.
Speaker 3: Queer just feels more expansive and feels more diverse than gay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always thought of gay as a word to
Speaker 1: describe someone's sexuality, but queer as a way to describe
Speaker 1: like sexuality, identity and like personal politicians.
Speaker 2: Ok, Yeah, Like yeah, to me, queer.
Speaker 1: Feels like I'm like, oh, if you're saying queer, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I get an idea of who you are and what
Speaker 1: you believe in, And if.
Speaker 2: You tell me gay, I'm like, oh, that could be
Speaker 2: a lot. There's a very wide range.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's like oddly gay is the broader umbrella
Speaker 1: term there. But like, yeah, so many of the people
Speaker 1: that we talked to envision utopias like a world where
Speaker 1: they could just be left alone, like where they are
Speaker 1: just allowed to live without judgment, and some of them
Speaker 1: felt like it was actually kind of happening. I think
Speaker 1: about Xavier Blanco who stopped by to talk about his
Speaker 1: life as a sex worker earlier in the season, and
Speaker 1: some of what he said about queer utopia, let's check
Speaker 1: it out.
Speaker 9: I think actually my little brother and sister are living
Speaker 9: a little bit of queer utopia. My brother's twenty seven,
Speaker 9: my sister is twenty six, and my little brother as
Speaker 9: a gay friend and a queer friend, I should say,
Speaker 9: and I found it so strange, and he's like bro,
Speaker 9: like he's a person. So for me, career utopia would
Speaker 9: be that where it's a place where our sexual endeavors
Speaker 9: does not justify or dictate how we interact with one another,
Speaker 9: as well as like having of course sex workers rights
Speaker 9: and just living a life where we're not really judging
Speaker 9: each other for what we're doing behind closed doors. Like
Speaker 9: so my career utopia would be like stop stigmatizing our
Speaker 9: sex lives, and.
Speaker 2: Even if we're not doing it behind closed doors, it
Speaker 2: shouldn't be right.
Speaker 1: We're saying, maybe we're dancing about a little box at
Speaker 1: Metropolitan is so.
Speaker 2: Tiny, that box is so that box is literal. That's
Speaker 2: queer utopia.
Speaker 1: Bigger, bigger, go go boxes and everything truly and stable ones.
Speaker 2: Actually I'd rather stable big, like the stability. I feel
Speaker 2: the same way about my men.
Speaker 3: Another Yes, the bars tic Dash expresses similar sentiment in
Speaker 3: his response.
Speaker 10: I think we'd have to acknowledge that our queer forefathers
Speaker 10: who didn't get to see today would feel like we're
Speaker 10: in a queer utopia right now, even though right now
Speaker 10: does feel scary. A lot of my work is in,
Speaker 10: you know, advocating for queer and trans people of color
Speaker 10: and like equity in all spaces. And one of the
Speaker 10: kind of like quotes I guess I live by is
Speaker 10: rising tides float all boats. And if we think about
Speaker 10: who the most marginalized people are in our community, it
Speaker 10: is trans people of color, and I think we need
Speaker 10: to focus on rising their tide.
Speaker 2: Rising tides flow boats.
Speaker 3: Yes, I love that sentiment because I feel like it
Speaker 3: like there is this notion that if like these people
Speaker 3: have rights, then I will have less rights.
Speaker 2: And like, no, babes, that's how that works, not how
Speaker 2: that works.
Speaker 3: We're not actually taking anything away from you. You will
Speaker 3: still have the access to all of the things that
Speaker 3: you've always had.
Speaker 2: We will just also have access to this things.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've seen these connections so often, like in
Speaker 1: the women's rights movement and the civil rights movement and
Speaker 1: the queer rights movement. It's like, if systems of oppression
Speaker 1: are being used to oppress one marginalized group, they will
Speaker 1: be used against other groups and other groups until finally
Speaker 1: they're used against you. Yes, and so understanding that helping
Speaker 1: other people succeed, survive, and thrive in this world will
Speaker 1: only help all of us do It is like a
Speaker 1: lesson you'd think we would have learned from.
Speaker 2: Like an elementary school, or maybe truly one of the
Speaker 2: most basic ideas.
Speaker 1: And yet it's like, oh, well, like trans people want
Speaker 1: special rights.
Speaker 2: No, trans just want to exist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like they just want to go to school, they
Speaker 1: want to use the bathroom, they just want to like live.
Speaker 1: I love the idea that my tax scholars could go
Speaker 1: to help someone afford healthcare that they can't afford. Like
Speaker 1: I don't understand why people are so mad that the
Speaker 1: government would spend money to port the livelihood and safety
Speaker 1: of people of the nation.
Speaker 2: It's like, when you look at.
Speaker 1: Our budget, the amount that we spend on weapons and
Speaker 1: war like far out paces what we spent in education
Speaker 1: on health care.
Speaker 2: All right, let's hear.
Speaker 3: Two more answers to the questions from our two amazing
Speaker 3: guests from our episode about cruising with trans Guys, filmmaker
Speaker 3: Jules Roscombe and King Punk's hosts Santo's Jay ars.
Speaker 2: I loved this episode. It was great.
Speaker 11: So I actually did a project on utopia in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 11: The conclusion I came to is that for me, utopia
Speaker 11: is actually always fleeting, not unlike what Munno says. In
Speaker 11: a way, for me, utopia is relational. So it's about
Speaker 11: actually these fleeting moments of like amazing sex where we
Speaker 11: transcend our bodies and we merge into one another, or
Speaker 11: you know, even sharing a meal with someone or something
Speaker 11: like that. It is like these these utopian moments as
Speaker 11: opposed to place. But now my queer utopia is like
Speaker 11: really like an anti racist, anti capitalist, feminist state, So
Speaker 11: it's really that's that's the place I want to be.
Speaker 11: I want the downfall of the of the US colonial empire.
Speaker 11: I want all of the genocides around the world to
Speaker 11: come to an end. I want trans people to not be,
Speaker 11: you know, constantly battling legislation that attempts to write us
Speaker 11: out of history. I want the US to actually acknowledge
Speaker 11: the you know, the settler project that it is and
Speaker 11: make reparations.
Speaker 2: Like this is my career utopia.
Speaker 3: So let's picture It's twenty sixty nine. What does creery
Speaker 3: utopia look like for you? What does it feel like?
Speaker 12: I love to take it from the poster like fully
Speaker 12: automated luxury space communism. Okay, so that's that's that's my ideal.
Speaker 12: You know, everybody's got good language in terms of consent,
Speaker 12: there's no R word, and folks are just chillin and
Speaker 12: fed and housed and you know, fucking as they please.
Speaker 2: I want that too.
Speaker 3: Imagine feeding people and housing them and having amazing sex.
Speaker 2: Wow, in a fully automated role.
Speaker 1: Two of those things the government could provide us very easy.
Speaker 1: The third is still gonna take a little work, but
Speaker 1: it's always worth putting in the effort.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: We talked a lot about imagination and how it relates
Speaker 1: to We did the trans experience of that episode, and
Speaker 1: I think trans folks have already had to reimagine everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the boundaries we put around gender, the way we envision
Speaker 1: sex and sexuality as it relates to gender. And so
Speaker 1: it's like I think everyone's always like, oh, I want
Speaker 1: trans women to run the world, but like I really
Speaker 1: genuinely do because, like I think trans people in general,
Speaker 1: non binary folks, women, men have have already had to
Speaker 1: like tap into an imagination and a potentiality in the.
Speaker 2: Future which we talked about. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: I'm like, like, you're really like doing the work. You're
Speaker 1: you're a step ahead of us in envisioning this co utopia,
Speaker 1: and like I really want to follow that need. All right,
Speaker 1: when we come back, we're ready to hear about some
Speaker 1: of our guests ideas for a future that might look
Speaker 1: a lot like science fiction more a cruising Confessions after.
Speaker 2: The break, Welcome back.
Speaker 13: Now.
Speaker 1: Not all of our guests were content with imagining a
Speaker 1: queer future where we all had our material needs met
Speaker 1: and we're treated with respect and non judgment by society.
Speaker 1: Some of them had some more outlandish but very fun
Speaker 1: ideas to accompany the more political ones. So we'd like
Speaker 1: to share with you author and dom Daddy Dale Corvino
Speaker 1: regarding his vision for a queer utopia.
Speaker 4: I think we are, you know, a queer people were
Speaker 4: defined by like this need to find each other, to
Speaker 4: seek each other out. And you know, we've been talking
Speaker 4: a lot about how like our digital context helps us
Speaker 4: in a lot of ways to find that find us out.
Speaker 4: But I'm almost like on a sensey tip for twenty
Speaker 4: sixty nine where we just have like extra sensory intel.
Speaker 4: I mean I think we already do.
Speaker 2: Right, what are those orgasms?
Speaker 7: Like? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Like hello, she's as a even as a young, you know,
Speaker 4: sexually confused teenage boy. I my nose was working. I
Speaker 4: found you know, I found the queer cruising grounds. I
Speaker 4: found the queer authors in the library. So I think
Speaker 4: we do have extra sensory perception to find each other.
Speaker 4: But I'm picturing a sixty nine twenty six where it's
Speaker 4: just so enhanced, it's just so elevated and enhanced.
Speaker 2: Any flying cars, sure, okay? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And then what my what might like a gay bar
Speaker 1: look like? Interesting?
Speaker 4: A flying car gay bar?
Speaker 2: I mean a mobile bar. It's your crew.
Speaker 4: I'm going to go whatever you want to go with
Speaker 4: a I'm going to go with a flying car.
Speaker 1: Barkay, the easiest way to It's like.
Speaker 4: Attracting gaze to a singular spot. It just comes and
Speaker 4: gets you.
Speaker 3: Yes, great, oh my god. Yes, all those for kids
Speaker 3: in Indianapolis.
Speaker 2: First stop, They're our first stop there. It is funny.
Speaker 1: It's almost like where people are required to have that
Speaker 1: little sixth sense to be like, do I send someone
Speaker 1: in my community near me?
Speaker 2: Do do I find a queer thing here? Like? Is
Speaker 2: it around?
Speaker 1: And I think it's like, you know, we do have
Speaker 1: to be more observant and more vigilant, but it's like
Speaker 1: it is almost hypersensory. I love the flying gay bar
Speaker 1: idea too.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 3: He was talking about those kids in Indiana that came
Speaker 3: to his book signing, and like, I think how radical
Speaker 3: would be for them to have that experience for a night,
Speaker 3: you know, and how liberating it would be.
Speaker 2: All right, next up, we've got Donald Shorter.
Speaker 1: I am curious what sort of new technology do you
Speaker 1: think we might see in queer scenes, specifically in the
Speaker 1: leather scene.
Speaker 2: Teleportation? Oh oh yeah, because you've got your long distance
Speaker 2: partner again like that, what again? I want to telephone myself.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, teleportation so I can go see my daddy whenever,
Speaker 9: and vice versa.
Speaker 1: Let's build some high speed rails so we can go
Speaker 1: see our daddies, please, I would love infrastructure, infrastructure.
Speaker 2: I love this idea of teleportation.
Speaker 7: I do too.
Speaker 3: I think it would make hooking up so much easier
Speaker 3: because like half the struggle is the travel time.
Speaker 1: You know, you would you would really have gays out
Speaker 1: here teleporting from Brooklyn to the Bronx though, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, two hour train ride.
Speaker 1: Let me just yeah, you know, like imagine what like
Speaker 1: sex parties would look like if you could have people
Speaker 1: teleport in to attend them.
Speaker 2: Ooh that would be wild, interesting, a lot of fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I would never be sleeping, yeah, oh absolutely not.
Speaker 1: I'd be like in Toronto and then go to LA
Speaker 1: and then come back to New York.
Speaker 2: I would pop to Europe. Yeah, oh absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1: I also do love this idea of teleportation because it
Speaker 1: kind of like obliterates boundaries and borders, being able to
Speaker 1: see how other folks live, having other folks who might
Speaker 1: live in oppressive places be able to leave those, Like
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see what the world would look like
Speaker 1: when bridging distances between people so much smaller. Would we
Speaker 1: be able to like stand in solidarity with each other
Speaker 1: if we could just like tell you to be there,
Speaker 1: and so.
Speaker 3: It'll be like, oh, what is it actually like on
Speaker 3: the front lines? For lack of a better term, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm a little like if you're on the science of it,
Speaker 1: like if I have to be disintegrated to be rebuilt,
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, maybe not okay, yeah, no, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Are we being like launched through a fast tube or
Speaker 1: is it like Star Trek where we're like and then
Speaker 1: we come back.
Speaker 3: I'd rather blul and come back, because then going through
Speaker 3: a fast tube.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you want to be like obliterated at a
Speaker 1: molecular level and then reconstructed. Yes, baby, we can barely
Speaker 1: get Boeing airplanes to fly correctly. You're like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: would love to then going through a fast tube if
Speaker 1: that's my other option. Well, at least the fast tube
Speaker 1: keeps your body intact. I love that we're debating, like
Speaker 1: what type of teleportation technology we need right now because
Speaker 1: we're not getting it.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're not getting it. No, imagination. This is no
Speaker 2: this is I.
Speaker 1: Am working toward teleportation. Teleportation is a longing, but it
Speaker 1: is just out of got it. Okay, fantastic. On that
Speaker 1: same episode, Chipper, Our Puppy Trainer and Your Dear Friend
Speaker 1: drew on the work of two legendary artists to form
Speaker 1: his idea of what queer utopia could look like.
Speaker 5: Marcel de Champ in the Afternoon Sessions. I think it's
Speaker 5: what it's called. It's a book of interviews, and he
Speaker 5: talked about doing a lazy house, and this relationship to
Speaker 5: like laziness is something that I'm really really all about.
Speaker 5: And the premise is that there's always a place for
Speaker 5: someone to go if you don't want to do anything,
Speaker 5: you know, and that you can only exist there as
Speaker 5: long as you do nothing. And immediately once you want
Speaker 5: to start doing something, you got to go. But you're
Speaker 5: completely taken care of. So there's like changing the capitalist grind,
Speaker 5: like into just like choosing to opt in and out
Speaker 5: of like how we care like life, but like how
Speaker 5: we care for ourselves. I would love for that to
Speaker 5: be just a normal thing.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 5: Number two would be in Samuel Delaney's Times Square Red,
Speaker 5: Times Square Blue he talks at the end. I can't
Speaker 5: remember which of the papers it was, but this idea
Speaker 5: of like a brothel in every neighborhood or like a
Speaker 5: place that's run by I think he proposes women, but
Speaker 5: it's pretty much anyone who is like the most vulnerable population,
Speaker 5: like run by four. But that's completely inclusive. So there's
Speaker 5: always a space to like have sex, right to go
Speaker 5: to to have shared space where you don't have to
Speaker 5: take someone back to like your apartment or do anything
Speaker 5: like that, and it's just available a few blocks away
Speaker 5: wherever you are. I think that would be amazing.
Speaker 2: That sounds amazing, very healing and also really sexy, like
Speaker 2: the lazy house with the brothel on the corner.
Speaker 5: Yes, seeing the world coming together like this is it?
Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah? Please can we make that happen? If every
Speaker 2: coffee shop or a brothel, what would your journey have
Speaker 2: been like? I think it's such a good example of again,
Speaker 2: let's go back to Winnos.
Speaker 1: But we hear this from a lot of our guests,
Speaker 1: and we read this in Winnos as well, that sometimes,
Speaker 1: like you know, in looking toward the future, it doesn't
Speaker 1: hurt to look back at the past and borrow from ideas, concepts,
Speaker 1: even things that failed or were maybe ahead of their time,
Speaker 1: And so I love this right that like maybe we
Speaker 1: can look back to people like Douchamp or Delaney to
Speaker 1: be like, oh, these ideas seemed far fetched and very theoretical, yes,
Speaker 1: but like maybe there is a future.
Speaker 2: That we're approaching where that could exist.
Speaker 3: One of our favorite guests from the season was right
Speaker 3: Or Brontes Parnell, and his approach to the question of
Speaker 3: utopia was a little different.
Speaker 6: I don't believe in utopias, like fundamentally, like totally, Like
Speaker 6: I think the idea of a utopia is something that
Speaker 6: is kind of like exclusive, Okay, you know, I feel
Speaker 6: like capitalism always sells us the idea of utopia, or
Speaker 6: even sometimes when I like, I'll even say it, when
Speaker 6: I watch the Sniffys ads and it's like these muscular
Speaker 6: boys and jockstraps in this house like all like hooking up,
Speaker 6: when in the reality, I'm like fucking a drug dealer
Speaker 6: that has a gun by my big you know, Like
Speaker 6: they're always selling us this idea of something that's just
Speaker 6: beyond reach, which I think is kind of the point.
Speaker 6: I believe in the hero's journey. I believe that our
Speaker 6: queer legacy, our queer rights, is an active fight that
Speaker 6: we are always we're always going to be engaged in
Speaker 6: from here on in forever. Utopia is just this metaphor
Speaker 6: that kind of puts the care for the donkey. So
Speaker 6: I think right now is probably as utopic as it gets.
Speaker 13: Unfortunately, and also thank god.
Speaker 6: You know, if this was even thirty years ago, someone
Speaker 6: like me would probably be did so any I know
Speaker 6: it seems like really hard, but these actual, these incremental,
Speaker 6: the incremental gains that we have just kind of the
Speaker 6: thing that that's what's I think it's what makes life
Speaker 6: worth living. I don't need everything to be perfect or
Speaker 6: the idea of all hall or whatever. I just need Wait, okay,
Speaker 6: so I'm a Southern Baptist girl, so this is my
Speaker 6: favorite quote. God, don't move my mountain, just give me
Speaker 6: the strength to climb.
Speaker 7: Period.
Speaker 2: I love that. That's amazing. Yeah, okay, let me suddenly
Speaker 2: I'm the voy.
Speaker 7: Wait.
Speaker 13: Oh my god, I just got top feelings.
Speaker 2: In your bottom of your turning someone into a top.
Speaker 2: This is wildful.
Speaker 13: Oh my god, Like, am I really about to be
Speaker 13: guts right now?
Speaker 2: Oh my god? Bronte what a fantastic answer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love And you know, as he was describing it,
Speaker 3: I was like, this makes sense. Yeah, I can understand
Speaker 3: his point of view. So clearly I.
Speaker 1: Loved it because there are moments where he like starts
Speaker 1: off from where Munho starts, or like kind of dovetails
Speaker 1: with Munyo's. But it's funny because I think he takes
Speaker 1: a slightly more pessimistic but pragmatic approach to the idea
Speaker 1: of utopia.
Speaker 2: Which felt like home because my mom was like that.
Speaker 2: My mom was too, Yeah, you don't know what's coming.
Speaker 1: All you can do is today, and I'm like, but
Speaker 1: I want to think about the future, like I need
Speaker 1: to control everything. Munyo's does talk a little bit, and
Speaker 1: there was a talk that he gave a little bit
Speaker 1: after cruising Utopia came out where he talks about the
Speaker 1: two extremes regarding utopia, how like the idealists or like
Speaker 1: utopia is closer than ever and it could be here now,
Speaker 1: and then the pessimistic people that are like, it's always
Speaker 1: going to be an idea and a concept and will
Speaker 1: never reach that. And it's interesting because I think some
Speaker 1: of our guests were here and some of our guests
Speaker 1: were Bronte is right and un Jo's is like right
Speaker 1: in the middle, maybe leaning a little bit more toward Brontest,
Speaker 1: but it really just shows the full spectrum of like
Speaker 1: how queer perspectives on the idea of utopia can really
Speaker 1: be so different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this has been really fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had a blast with revisiting all of these
Speaker 1: interviews as well as your iconic outfits. I think you
Speaker 1: really you served.
Speaker 2: Not the interesting.
Speaker 1: The ons were really good, but like you served does
Speaker 1: some of those looks.
Speaker 2: I really loved it.
Speaker 3: We also want to thank our guests from this entire season.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, so many incredible folks.
Speaker 1: Scott Carslake, Leoi Herera, Tom mcdash Dale, Corvino, Brontest, Pernell,
Speaker 1: Jules rosscom Santos, ja I Say, Xavier Blanco, Chipper, Donald Truter, Junior,
Speaker 1: Jonah Wheeler, Come On, Doctor Joshua Gonzalez, Doctor Evan Goldstein,
Speaker 1: Bobby Box, Dominion, Onyx, The Bay Bandit and Leo and Jordan.
Speaker 1: Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is a production of outspoken podcast networks
Speaker 1: from I Hard Podcasts.
Speaker 2: It's directed by Adam Barron, produced by Stevie Williams. And
Speaker 2: Cameron Femino and executive produced by Eli Martin.
Speaker 1: Cruising Confessions is presented by Sniffy's, the ultimate map based
Speaker 1: cruising platform for gay by and curious people Ready Dacruz.
Speaker 2: Check out the map.
Speaker 1: At Sniffy's dot com and follow Sniffy's on socials at
Speaker 1: Sniffy's app.
Speaker 13: Put Joe, Put Put Joe, Put Put Joe Plus