Speaker 1: Personally Oldsman.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite parts of getting to do this
Speaker 2: podcast is to share stories in topics of things that
Speaker 2: either haven't impacted me or I can't speak from personal experience,
Speaker 2: because it means I get to learn with all of
Speaker 2: you as these guests come on. And that was the
Speaker 2: case last week, and it's the case this week. Sarah
Speaker 2: Todd Hammer is a disability advocate and author. She's twenty
Speaker 2: three years old, and we'll share her story of being
Speaker 2: disabled and walk us through the best ways to be
Speaker 2: an advocate. You're gonna love this one, So let's do this.
Speaker 2: I'm here right now with Sarah Todd Hammer. She's an
Speaker 2: author and a disability advocate, and I'm so excited to
Speaker 2: hear her story and have her on.
Speaker 3: Hi, Sarah, how are you, Hie?
Speaker 1: Hi Morgan, thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 3: I'm so excited to have you on. When I had
Speaker 3: asked to have you on.
Speaker 2: I watched your personal documentary Pressing Buttons short film on
Speaker 2: your YouTube.
Speaker 1: Yes, thanks so much for watching.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would really just love to start here
Speaker 2: by you sharing your story because that is a huge
Speaker 2: part of who you are, and that's the reason we're
Speaker 2: on and talking about this today of course.
Speaker 1: Hi everyone. I'm Sarah Todd. I go by Sarah Todd
Speaker 1: or st is a nickname, and I'm twenty three from
Speaker 1: Atlanta and I've had a physical disability since i was
Speaker 1: eight years old. I actually had my fifteen year disability
Speaker 1: anniversary on April nineteenth. Related emotional anniversary, yes, I view
Speaker 1: it as mostly like a happy day. I try to
Speaker 1: do something fun on that day if I can.
Speaker 3: Did you do something fun for this?
Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, my friend was visiting actually, which wasn't planned
Speaker 1: to specifically be on that day, but it just so
Speaker 1: happened to be. So my friend from college was visiting.
Speaker 1: We spent the weekend together, so that was super fun.
Speaker 1: I had a great fifteen year anniversary.
Speaker 2: Love that, and I love that you celebrate that every
Speaker 2: year because it puts a positive light on something that happened.
Speaker 1: Yes, I like to, as we'll get into, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: I like to always view the positive sides of things
Speaker 1: while still letting myself acknowledge the sad, emotional, or challenging
Speaker 1: things because it's not healthy to ignore them.
Speaker 2: So I try to have exactly correct and we totally
Speaker 2: won't get into that, Okay, go on, I just.
Speaker 1: Want to acknowledge, thank you. Yes. So on April nineteen,
Speaker 1: twenty ten, so about fifteen years ago was when I
Speaker 1: became disabled and I was at ballet class. My disability
Speaker 1: happened to occur in ballet, but it's not related to ballet.
Speaker 1: I was a really avid dancer, loved ballet, and I
Speaker 1: was in my class try on my dance recital costume
Speaker 1: for upcoming recital, and all of a sudden got a
Speaker 1: really bad head and neck ache, which was so bad
Speaker 1: that I was gonna go home, which was unusual for me.
Speaker 1: I usually wasn't like that. I never wanted to leave class.
Speaker 1: But on my way out of the studio to go home,
Speaker 1: I reached down to adjust my ballet tights and my
Speaker 1: arms and hands just stopped working out of nowhere. Obviously,
Speaker 1: my mom and I didn't go home once that happened.
Speaker 1: I was flown by a helicopter to the nearest hospital
Speaker 1: and I was there for six hours that night. Didn't
Speaker 1: receive any treatment except they gave me motrin, which I
Speaker 1: could have gotten at home. They didn't do anything, and
Speaker 1: they sent me home after six.
Speaker 3: Hours and find me in a helicopter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they'd flown me in and then sent me home,
Speaker 1: even though my mom was begging them to do something,
Speaker 1: asking for a different doctor, asking if I had a
Speaker 1: brain tumor, if I had a stroke, or various different things,
Speaker 1: and they just didn't listen. So wasted our time there.
Speaker 1: Was sent home really late at night, around eleven midnight,
Speaker 1: and the next morning woke up and then couldn't move
Speaker 1: my legs. So all in a matter of sixteen hours,
Speaker 1: I became paralyzed from the neck down, completely out of
Speaker 1: the blue.
Speaker 3: How old are you at this time?
Speaker 1: I was eight, so very young and obviously very scared.
Speaker 1: But when I was sent home, I remember the doctor
Speaker 1: told my mom, if she's not better in the morning,
Speaker 1: bring her back. So I was like, okay, then he
Speaker 1: thinks I'll be better in the morning. When I woke
Speaker 1: up in the morning, I was excited because I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: everything's gonna be fine because he'd said that. So as
Speaker 1: an eight year old, that's how your mind thinks. So yeah,
Speaker 1: So it was completely paralyzed. In the nicktown. We went
Speaker 1: back to the hospital. I was there for two months.
Speaker 1: I had an MRI done that showed a spinal cord
Speaker 1: injury from C two to T one on the spinal cord,
Speaker 1: so very large section of my spinal cord was damaged,
Speaker 1: and I regained the ability to walk in the hospital, thankfully,
Speaker 1: but was left with partial paralysis in my arms and hands,
Speaker 1: which is what I still have today. I have a
Speaker 1: really unique disability because most people don't just have paralysis
Speaker 1: in their arms and hands. Usually if they have that,
Speaker 1: they're also in a wheelchair. But I'm walking, so a
Speaker 1: lot of people actually don't realize that I have a disability,
Speaker 1: even though my disability affects my day to day life.
Speaker 1: So that's how everything happened.
Speaker 2: And that was the wild thing when I was watching
Speaker 2: your documentary was just how much.
Speaker 3: This is something so random?
Speaker 2: But I remember I broke my tailbone, and I didn't
Speaker 2: realize how much that.
Speaker 3: Impacted my life every single day.
Speaker 2: I cannot simply imagine what it would be like for
Speaker 2: someone who doesn't have the use of their arms in
Speaker 2: their hands to do every single thing they need to
Speaker 2: do in their day to day life.
Speaker 3: And you went to college.
Speaker 1: Yes, how we could talk about that too. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: sure breaking your tailbone was so painful.
Speaker 2: I did it rollerblady with him five minutes and I'm like,
Speaker 2: Why did I do this?
Speaker 3: Why did I do that to myself?
Speaker 2: But if I think it gave me a perspective that
Speaker 2: I would have never had, because you just don't realize
Speaker 2: how important every single piece of your body is to
Speaker 2: making everything work.
Speaker 1: Yes, until you can't use a certain part of your body,
Speaker 1: that's totally the case. But what's interesting is since I
Speaker 1: was eight, I feel like I just had all of
Speaker 1: this happen to me, and then I just moved on
Speaker 1: in a way. Yeah, it's hard to explain because looking
Speaker 1: back on it, I recognize that I very much just
Speaker 1: wanted to go back to how things were before. So
Speaker 1: when I went home from the hospital, I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm home. Everything should be normal now. But
Speaker 1: then I needed help feeding myself, and I needed help
Speaker 1: getting dressed, and I wasn't going back to school, and
Speaker 1: so then you're like, oh, it's not how it used
Speaker 1: to be. But I think kids are just very resilient,
Speaker 1: So that actually helped me. If I had been older
Speaker 1: and this had happened, I maybe wouldn't have adjusted as well.
Speaker 1: So I'm old enough that I remember it and I
Speaker 1: remember what it was like to be non disabled, But
Speaker 1: I also was young enough that it helped me adjust.
Speaker 2: Do you look back on that time of your life
Speaker 2: and even the days, months, years that followed and remember
Speaker 2: a lot of emotional moments in trying to understand why
Speaker 2: all of the sudden this would happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I was just very focused on
Speaker 1: going back to normal, and I didn't really let myself
Speaker 1: sit with what had happened too much, which then made
Speaker 1: everything come up later as I got older and realized,
Speaker 1: oh wow, that happened, and I can't even believe that happened.
Speaker 1: For example, certain memories from the hospital, I know looking
Speaker 1: back on it that I was having like panic attacks
Speaker 1: and anxiety, but as a child, I didn't know how
Speaker 1: to share that with doctors, and they didn't know what
Speaker 1: was happening, or they would just tell me you're okay.
Speaker 1: I know that you're fine because you're talking things like that,
Speaker 1: And so it's difficult because as a child, I was
Speaker 1: scared of certain things, scared of medical procedures and all
Speaker 1: of those things. But I wasn't able to comprehend this
Speaker 1: was just a life altering event necessarily, and it was
Speaker 1: more like, Okay, I'm getting through this. I'm out of
Speaker 1: the hospital now, I'm at home. Oh, but now I'm
Speaker 1: doing therapy for eight hours a day. Then I'm done
Speaker 1: with that after this month, and then it's like you're
Speaker 1: just going through the motions. That's more so, I was
Speaker 1: thinking as a kid, dreading those things until those things
Speaker 1: ended and then I could just live my life with
Speaker 1: my disability without like the scary medical things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would imagine that would come with some trauma
Speaker 2: of medical and understanding, especially been to you so young,
Speaker 2: and especially that first even hearing you talk back that story,
Speaker 2: that first moment of them being like she's fine, give
Speaker 2: her a motrin, and you're like, I'm obviously not fine,
Speaker 2: but okay.
Speaker 1: Yes I knew I wasn't fine. But then I'm like,
Speaker 1: he's a doctor, so as an eight year old, you're
Speaker 1: going to trust the doctor. And then thinking too, looking
Speaker 1: back on it, how powerless my mom had become. Because
Speaker 1: when you're fighting with a doctor, you can't do anything.
Speaker 1: They kick you out of the hospital, you can't stay,
Speaker 1: they refuse to give you a new doctor. And that
Speaker 1: makes me sad thinking about that too, how that happens
Speaker 1: to not only just me and my mom, but so
Speaker 1: many other people all the time. And I don't know
Speaker 1: why it's a very common occurrence. Unfortunately, it very much is.
Speaker 2: And that's a gosh story for a different day, I suppose,
Speaker 2: because that has things.
Speaker 3: All on its own.
Speaker 2: But something that I was thinking about to when you
Speaker 2: do return to normal life post this event happening, were
Speaker 2: you worried about what other kids might think? Were you
Speaker 2: worried about what those interactions were going to look like?
Speaker 2: Did you have bad ones? Or was it a relatively
Speaker 2: good experience for you.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I was necessarily worrying what people
Speaker 1: would think. I don't remember that. I feel like i've,
Speaker 1: thankfully he's actually been a very confident person. So my
Speaker 1: fears are really less about what people are going to
Speaker 1: think of me and more about, oh, what's going to
Speaker 1: happen if I have a fear, and how am I
Speaker 1: going to react or how am I going to take
Speaker 1: control or fix things? So I don't really remember worrying
Speaker 1: about it. But then I do remember when I finally
Speaker 1: went back to school, so I had finished second grade.
Speaker 1: It was April when this happened, so I'd taken the
Speaker 1: standard grised testing and they just let me finish. Third
Speaker 1: grade came up. I did that at home so I
Speaker 1: could focus on physical and occupational therapy. And then for
Speaker 1: fourth grade, I returned back to the school building and
Speaker 1: I had a full time aid with me to help
Speaker 1: me with school supplies like writing, getting lunch out, doing
Speaker 1: the bathroom door, stuff like that. And I don't remember
Speaker 1: being scared of what people would think of having her
Speaker 1: with me, but I do remember things definitely were different,
Speaker 1: Like there was one instance where I knew one of
Speaker 1: my friends had a birthday party and I wasn't invited,
Speaker 1: and she told me that I could have gotten hurt
Speaker 1: because they had a pinata, and I knew that wouldn't
Speaker 1: have happened pre disability. There was one instance where i'd
Speaker 1: one of my friends come over to my house after
Speaker 1: school in fourth grade, and as she and I were
Speaker 1: going up to my room, I heard her mom ask
Speaker 1: mine if what I had was contagious. Wow, And that
Speaker 1: stuck with me because it made me realize, oh, like,
Speaker 1: she's worried about her daughter hanging out with me, even
Speaker 1: though we were in the same class at school. And
Speaker 1: I do remember friends, like, you know, I had a
Speaker 1: best friend before school or before my dis ability, who
Speaker 1: was a boy. And then when I returned to school.
Speaker 1: We were in fourth grade instead of second grade, and
Speaker 1: he didn't want to hang out with me as much,
Speaker 1: probably because he was like getting older and becoming a
Speaker 1: cool boy. And that was different to me because I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, we were best friends when this happened.
Speaker 1: Now you don't want to sit with me at lunch.
Speaker 1: So definitely things that happened that were upsetting, but that
Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily worry about because I didn't know what
Speaker 1: to expect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's hard too because you're also a kid,
Speaker 2: and that happens usually to kids too, So then you're
Speaker 2: having probably this, Okay, is it happening?
Speaker 3: Did I do something? You're not the way that I'm
Speaker 3: hearing you talk to you. This is just part of
Speaker 3: who you are, as it should be. That is how
Speaker 3: it should be.
Speaker 2: But to people who don't have disabilities, they see it
Speaker 2: as a disability.
Speaker 3: They treat you differently, which is the whole reason we're
Speaker 3: having you on because we don't want people to do that.
Speaker 1: Yes, even that quickly, it just became who I was,
Speaker 1: even in fourth grade. It only been a year and
Speaker 1: a half or so less than that, and I was
Speaker 1: already like, oh, this is just my life and so
Speaker 1: then when I was treated a little bit differently, it
Speaker 1: was almost confusing because I was like, why what's different?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're like to me, I'm still me?
Speaker 2: Yes, still who the person that the only thing that's
Speaker 2: changed is for me?
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, not as much for the other students and friends.
Speaker 1: It was my life that had changed.
Speaker 2: You were talking about in that video too, And maybe
Speaker 2: there's other things that you can pinpoint, But what can
Speaker 2: this disability look like for you that people may not realize?
Speaker 2: Because I do think that helps them understand the things
Speaker 2: that you're going through while also being able to treat
Speaker 2: you normally. When we understand things better, we can understand
Speaker 2: how to interact better.
Speaker 1: Yes, something I've been exploring a lot is how I
Speaker 1: want to be seen and then how I've realized other
Speaker 1: people see me and not in a looks type of
Speaker 1: way or anything like that, just about like how my
Speaker 1: disability makes itself known. Because I used to describe myself
Speaker 1: as having an invisible disability, and I talked about that
Speaker 1: a little bit in my short film because I had
Speaker 1: just assumed that when people met me, they had no
Speaker 1: idea that I had a disability based on just like
Speaker 1: the interactions i'd had with people I would meet, I
Speaker 1: felt like they had no clue. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't know it, but then a lot
Speaker 1: of people do. And when I was in college, I
Speaker 1: took a class that was a disability studies class and
Speaker 1: we explored invisibility and visibility of disability, and I realized
Speaker 1: that this is a way more nuanced topic than people realize.
Speaker 1: And so the things I have thought about, like even
Speaker 1: back in high school, like I wrote an essay just
Speaker 1: for fun called what you Don't See, and it was
Speaker 1: directed towards my classmates, just in general, and it was
Speaker 1: all about how my mom got me ready for school
Speaker 1: by helping me put on shoes, helping me get dressed,
Speaker 1: putting my hair in a braid or a bun, packing
Speaker 1: my lunch for me. Someone drove me, even when I
Speaker 1: was in tenth, eleventh, and twelfth grade and everyone else
Speaker 1: was driving themselves. I show up to school looking super
Speaker 1: put together, just like everybody else, but nobody saw what
Speaker 1: it took to get me there. So that essay was
Speaker 1: all about that what you don't see, You don't see
Speaker 1: all of these things that go into my disability, but
Speaker 1: they're there. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. So
Speaker 1: I've actually found it very validating to refer to myself
Speaker 1: as having a visible disability, because if I don't, I'm
Speaker 1: centering how other people see me and not how I
Speaker 1: see myself. So that's something I've been exploring. I found
Speaker 1: it very helpful, honestly, to realize, no, it's not invisible.
Speaker 1: It's just that people don't see these things, and that's
Speaker 1: not their fault. That's just how it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cool for you because growth is such a
Speaker 2: beautiful thing, right when you can understand yourself better and
Speaker 2: you're in those I remember.
Speaker 3: My twenties and they're not long ago. I'm only thirty one,
Speaker 3: but I do remember my.
Speaker 2: Twenties being such formative years where I understood so much
Speaker 2: more about myself than I ever knew that I needed
Speaker 2: to learn. You're at that prime time where everything is
Speaker 2: just starting to fall into.
Speaker 3: Place and you're understanding and it's so fun.
Speaker 2: It's also terrifying because so much of what you thought
Speaker 2: you knew is not the same.
Speaker 1: Yes, I know, I love this age. I love being
Speaker 1: twenty three. You can literally feel your brain developing and
Speaker 1: you understanding things more, and it is fascinating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they sound on the internet. My frontal
Speaker 3: lobe has just developed.
Speaker 1: It's so true, even compared to freshman year of college,
Speaker 1: and you grow so much in college. Even by sophomore year,
Speaker 1: I was so much different than freshman year. So much
Speaker 1: growth happens and I love it. But it can be
Speaker 1: challenging too, But overall I love it.
Speaker 2: And speaking of college, you did go to college. You
Speaker 2: graduated last year.
Speaker 1: I can't believe it's been almost a year.
Speaker 2: Which it trust me, it keeps getting further and further
Speaker 2: away from me when I see that, like, holy crap,
Speaker 2: that was so long ago. But this is something that
Speaker 2: you always said you knew you'd do.
Speaker 3: You you can.
Speaker 2: Tell it in your voice, in the way that you
Speaker 2: talk about things that you're very driven and you were
Speaker 2: going to accomplish the things that you wanted to accomplish.
Speaker 2: But is there things on the flip side of college
Speaker 2: where you're like, oh, that's something I'm never going to
Speaker 2: be able to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely always knew it's going to go to
Speaker 1: college because I knew I wanted to do that. There
Speaker 1: are some things I know I'm never going to be
Speaker 1: able to do, but I don't really care necessarily, see
Speaker 1: I love this. Yeah, Like, I'm never going to be
Speaker 1: a surgeon unless I've seen some people who can be
Speaker 1: surgeons and they use the little robot things to do
Speaker 1: the surgery instead of their actual hands and they're not
Speaker 1: even necessarily disabled. So maybe in the future, but that's
Speaker 1: just not even for me anyway. I'm not good at
Speaker 1: art anyway, so I'm never going to be an artist,
Speaker 1: like disability or not. But it's something I've thought about
Speaker 1: maybe just doing for fun as a hobby, because I
Speaker 1: do enjoy that type of thing. I was actually asked
Speaker 1: the other day by one of my friends, if I
Speaker 1: did a sport other than dancing, what would I want
Speaker 1: to choose? And I was like, oh, I've never been
Speaker 1: asked that. But I thought about tennis, and maybe there's
Speaker 1: an adaptive way to do tennis, but with arm and
Speaker 1: hand brousis tennis would be a difficult one. But I've
Speaker 1: learned that there's so much that I can do and
Speaker 1: that I have done. There's so many opportunities for a
Speaker 1: joy in life that it doesn't matter if you can't
Speaker 1: do some things. And in a lot of ways, there's
Speaker 1: different avenues for doing what you did before, like with dancing.
Speaker 1: For me, I just did it a bit differently after
Speaker 1: becoming disabled. And that's okay.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask that question for the exact reason
Speaker 2: that you answered it. I'm so glad because it sounds
Speaker 2: funny when I asked it up front, but I wanted
Speaker 2: you to share with people that there was always this
Speaker 2: who you are as a human being came through that question.
Speaker 2: You were going to do what you wanted to do regardless,
Speaker 2: and you were going to figure it out.
Speaker 3: Or the other side of you is I don't care,
Speaker 3: I don't want to do that. It's fine, Yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 2: So it shows the side of importance of this drive
Speaker 2: that you have.
Speaker 3: So just to make sure you know, I answered it,
Speaker 3: But did you did great? You didn't even know?
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you. Yeah, I love that. And I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously it can be sad if you had a hobby
Speaker 1: before disability and then you're disability takes away from you.
Speaker 1: That can be devastating. That does happen, So I think
Speaker 1: allowing yourself to sit with that is okay. But then
Speaker 1: also thinking about all the beautiful things that have happened
Speaker 1: from disability that wouldn't have happened before you would have
Speaker 1: made you just had that hobby. But after disability you
Speaker 1: can gain so many cool like new things like knowledge
Speaker 1: and friends and opportunities.
Speaker 3: And that was saying an opportunity hobby.
Speaker 1: Then yeah, yeah, I did.
Speaker 2: Sorry to interrupt you, but I do remember you met
Speaker 2: somebody and you're really excited about it from your social
Speaker 2: media pages.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, who was it? Was it one direction? Yes,
Speaker 1: I figured it was probably them, but I was like,
Speaker 1: it could have been a few other people too, But yes,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have done that without my disability.
Speaker 2: Yes, So your perspective and the way that you view
Speaker 2: what has happened to you and your disability is just beautiful.
Speaker 3: That perspective is so important, so I love it.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, And as you're in college and you're doing
Speaker 2: all these things, so you talk about how your mom
Speaker 2: had really helped you, and a lot of people helped
Speaker 2: you when you were getting ready for school.
Speaker 3: When you were in.
Speaker 2: College, did you have these moments where you're like, holy crap,
Speaker 2: I'm by myself and I have to figure this out.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yes, And sometimes I remember those they
Speaker 1: just hit me and I'm like, because right now I'm
Speaker 1: living at home and I'm very happy about it for
Speaker 1: the time being where I'm like, oh, I'm so glad
Speaker 1: to be home. There's some memories I have where I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I would not go back. Overall, I loved college, had
Speaker 1: such a great time, and I miss a lot of
Speaker 1: things about it. But there were definitely some times where
Speaker 1: I had to figure something out and I'd be like,
Speaker 1: I just want my mom. But then I'm like, that
Speaker 1: would happen disability or not too like the thing that
Speaker 1: I was struggling with maybe was because of my disability,
Speaker 1: but the thought was the same, Oh I just want
Speaker 1: my mom. So many kids would think that and it
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with disability necessarily, And those are
Speaker 1: the times where you know, definitely good for growth. But
Speaker 1: in the moment, I was just like, oh, I just
Speaker 1: want to be at home.
Speaker 2: Yes, And to your point, yes, I had many times
Speaker 2: in college where I was like, oh my gosh, mom,
Speaker 2: it's the mean girl's meme.
Speaker 3: She were the guys yelling his mom picked me up.
Speaker 3: I'm scared.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that exact thought.
Speaker 2: Yes, very often for you as someone with a disability,
Speaker 2: do you we were mentioning this topic of to you,
Speaker 2: it's not an invisible disability, and it's really important for
Speaker 2: you to identify that as someone with a disability and
Speaker 2: who isn't doesn't want to refer to it as invisible.
Speaker 3: Do you want people.
Speaker 2: To ask you about it, recognize it, bring it up
Speaker 2: or would you prefer that they don't. And it's just
Speaker 2: you're recognized as a normal human being without that, Like
Speaker 2: what is the way that you would like to be
Speaker 2: approached and interacted with?
Speaker 1: It's so complicated because every situation is so different and
Speaker 1: every human is so different. And see, honestly, I feel
Speaker 1: like my disability is actually not even invisible. I think
Speaker 1: people just don't notice things like my arms and hands
Speaker 1: do look different. And I've actually found a lot of
Speaker 1: comfort and now referring to myself as having a limb difference,
Speaker 1: whereas a lot of people think you're an amputee or
Speaker 1: you were born with some type of limb difference. But
Speaker 1: I've had people refer to me that way, people who
Speaker 1: know me, It is having a limb difference, and I
Speaker 1: actually found it very validating. So I will say that.
Speaker 1: But I think in general, I'm a super open person
Speaker 1: and with my friendships, like once I'm close with someone,
Speaker 1: I actually really like when they ask me questions and
Speaker 1: I don't even care what the question is. If they
Speaker 1: ask about if I can feel something, I don't care.
Speaker 1: With strangers on the internet, I feel like they don't
Speaker 1: really need to know the answers to those questions. But
Speaker 1: I really like when friends do that because it shows
Speaker 1: they're not afraid to ask. What I find interesting is
Speaker 1: with some friendships I've had over the years. I think
Speaker 1: I've had some friends who clearly aren't bothered by the
Speaker 1: fact that I have a disability because they're friends with me.
Speaker 1: But I get the sense that they don't feel super
Speaker 1: comfortable talking about it or they don't know how to
Speaker 1: talk about it, and I feel that honestly makes the friendship,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, more there's just some awkwardness there where.
Speaker 1: If it's just part of the friendship, then it's normal,
Speaker 1: and with strangers it's interesting. Like this is why I
Speaker 1: used to say I had an invisible disability, because when
Speaker 1: I'm walking around at the mall or the grocery store,
Speaker 1: people aren't coming up to me asking me questions. Really like,
Speaker 1: some people might stare at me if they notice I'm
Speaker 1: trying to do something and I look different, but I'm
Speaker 1: not really being treated like a wheelchair user is at
Speaker 1: the grocery store, where people might ask questions unnecessarily. When
Speaker 1: I'm interacting with people, like if I need to ask
Speaker 1: for help with something, I've honestly realized those interactions are
Speaker 1: usually so normal and people are very good about things.
Speaker 1: They don't really ask out of bucket things, and they
Speaker 1: just listen and help me with what I need help with.
Speaker 1: So anyway, Tangent long answer your question because it's just complicated.
Speaker 1: But I feel like with friendships, I want it to
Speaker 1: be acknowledged since it's such a huge part of me,
Speaker 1: and with strangers, they don't need to know things. But
Speaker 1: if it's someone I feel like I'm gonna end up
Speaker 1: seeing again, I don't necessarily really mind a question.
Speaker 2: I love that you gave a complicated answer because it's
Speaker 2: a complicated topic. Yes, and it's again understanding, and the
Speaker 2: only person that can help us understand that is someone
Speaker 2: like you.
Speaker 3: And that's a.
Speaker 2: Catch twenty two because I don't like sitting here and
Speaker 2: making somebody be the advocate in this situation where even
Speaker 2: though you are an advocate and this is what you
Speaker 2: love to do, I don't ever want someone to feel
Speaker 2: like the sole responsibility of teaching other people who aren't
Speaker 2: like them has to do you know.
Speaker 1: As that does happen, it's like you want to involve
Speaker 1: the people in the work, but then there's also a
Speaker 1: lot of emotional and physical labor that goes into that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but because you're reliving this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to your point, you in college, you were
Speaker 2: a disability advocate who was really fighting to do a
Speaker 2: lot of things at your college for those with disabilities.
Speaker 3: Like you, I really love this work.
Speaker 2: But even someone like you who loves his work, who
Speaker 2: talks about it, who wrote a book, still has to
Speaker 2: have moments where you're like, gosh, why can't I just
Speaker 2: be me today?
Speaker 1: Yes? Sometimes, definitely. In college, I would get that feeling
Speaker 1: a lot where I would and this was a compliment,
Speaker 1: but I would have other students come up to me
Speaker 1: and ask me questions about their disability or where to
Speaker 1: seek support for their disability. And it would be when
Speaker 1: I was just walking to class, or not even at
Speaker 1: a disability club meeting where that would maybe be more appropriate.
Speaker 1: And I actually had to learn to set boundaries of
Speaker 1: I can't help everyone. I love that they view me
Speaker 1: as having the knowledge and the ability to do that.
Speaker 1: That's a huge compliment. So it'd always thank them and
Speaker 1: recognize that, but I would give them usually the disability
Speaker 1: office director's email and say go to them or whoever
Speaker 1: the right person was, because I just knew that wasn't
Speaker 1: my responsibility.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm so proud of you for putting boundaries
Speaker 2: because as someone who likes to help, it's often hard
Speaker 2: to place those boundaries in.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is because you can feel bad about it,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that you don't care. It just
Speaker 1: honestly means you're not the right person for them to
Speaker 1: go to, even though they might think you are, and
Speaker 1: that's a compliment. The truth is that the college student
Speaker 1: that you know is not really the right person to
Speaker 1: go to for help with disability accommodations. And that's fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which, again, just thank you for being on this
Speaker 2: podcast to share so much of this because it helps
Speaker 2: us understand having conversations like that between a stranger and
Speaker 2: someone with a story gives us the knowledge that we
Speaker 2: all should have to navigate people and humans that we
Speaker 2: interact with every day. But why in college was it
Speaker 2: so important for you to do these adapted processes?
Speaker 3: Why was that something that you focused a lot of
Speaker 3: energy on.
Speaker 1: When I started college, it was because I had to
Speaker 1: for me to be able to go to college andanty
Speaker 1: without my mom or without an aid there with me,
Speaker 1: I had to have accommodations in my Doream in place
Speaker 1: for me to live there. I had alterations to the shower,
Speaker 1: to the sinks, to the drawers, lots of different accommodations
Speaker 1: were made. So it started with that. I did a
Speaker 1: lot of self advocating there because I had to. Then
Speaker 1: I knew that I wanted to be involved in extracurriculars,
Speaker 1: but with high school and college, I liked just not
Speaker 1: just doing school. I liked to have some activities, and
Speaker 1: so I knew a disability club would be like the
Speaker 1: perfect one. And so a lot of it just came
Speaker 1: from that, and then also my social media at the time,
Speaker 1: because I did a lot of videos in college about
Speaker 1: my accommodations and so many people thought it was so
Speaker 1: cool and they had tons of questions, and I realized
Speaker 1: a lot of people weren't talking about this. I didn't
Speaker 1: see any other disabled students online at the time. Now
Speaker 1: I've thankfully seen more representation of that, but at the
Speaker 1: time it was really being discussed, so that became an
Speaker 1: avenue for activism. So it all just tied together and
Speaker 1: started from me being forced to do it, but then
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it and I think it's made me a
Speaker 1: more confident and assertive person too, because I know how
Speaker 1: to talk to people about what I need and I
Speaker 1: can talk about what other people need, like just for
Speaker 1: the community. Do that a lot on behalf of our
Speaker 1: club at school.
Speaker 2: It's so cool what you're doing, Sarah Tuk. I just
Speaker 2: want to recognize that too. I'm curious your perspective because
Speaker 2: having a disability, I've seen on your social media you
Speaker 2: write two things.
Speaker 3: You always read it on every video and.
Speaker 2: It's oh, no advice please, yes, no advice please. And
Speaker 2: then in your captions you always write out the captions
Speaker 2: for others. So being disabled, do you feel like it
Speaker 2: has allowed you to understand others with disabilities better and
Speaker 2: make sure you're also recognizing the things that could be
Speaker 2: hard for them.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely, because I think about this all the time
Speaker 1: that obviously we don't know how I would have been
Speaker 1: as a human if this hadn't happened to me, But
Speaker 1: what we do know is how I am now. But
Speaker 1: I think that I would not have been a person
Speaker 1: who would have known any of that stuff because I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have had a reason to. So even when I
Speaker 1: started making tiktoks five years ago, I didn't think about
Speaker 1: putting captions on them until I saw someone in somebody
Speaker 1: else's comment section mention it. Now I was like, oh, shoot,
Speaker 1: I need to do that. So I was like, if
Speaker 1: I'm making videos talking about disability inclusion, I need to
Speaker 1: practice what I'm preaching as much as I can. Ever
Speaker 1: since then, I've put captions for death and hard of
Speaker 1: hearing people, and they're just more helpful in general, I
Speaker 1: think if you want to watch without the sound on,
Speaker 1: and they just improve comprehension. So I started doing that.
Speaker 1: I put a video description on every video I post,
Speaker 1: and then an image description for every photo, and that
Speaker 1: helps blind and low vision people because they can use
Speaker 1: a screen reader on their phone and it'll scan the
Speaker 1: text and then read it out loud to them, so
Speaker 1: then they have context for what the video or the
Speaker 1: photo is. So I do that. I try to make
Speaker 1: my fonts accessible if I'm ever making a poster or
Speaker 1: something like that, and so I definitely do all of
Speaker 1: that and know a lot about different disabilities, but I
Speaker 1: also recognize I'm only an expert in my experience. So
Speaker 1: for example, the other day, I posted a video looking
Speaker 1: at different products at Sophora and talking about what was
Speaker 1: accessible and inaccessible, and I would say, this pump from
Speaker 1: two Faced doesn't work for me, but I could see
Speaker 1: why other people would like pumps because maybe squeezing is
Speaker 1: hard for them. There was another product that I could do,
Speaker 1: but it was a little bit difficult, but I could
Speaker 1: see that working super well for an amputee who has
Speaker 1: the full strength in their one but they just have
Speaker 1: one hand. So try to think about all of those things.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, there's no way
Speaker 1: I can know everything. Yeah, there's something I struggle with.
Speaker 1: On TikTok. There's definitely some people who will comment and
Speaker 1: be like, this works for me, So just because it
Speaker 1: doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's bad. And I'm
Speaker 1: always like, I didn't say it was bad, it just
Speaker 1: said it didn't work for me. I'm not saying it
Speaker 1: shouldn't exist. So we need like more options and variety
Speaker 1: of things.
Speaker 2: This leads me into this next question too, when it
Speaker 2: comes to representation with disabilities. What has that experience been
Speaker 2: like for you, And do you feel like we're going
Speaker 2: in the direction of having more representation.
Speaker 1: I think it obviously is better in recent years. I
Speaker 1: still think what unfortunately happens those when there is disability representation,
Speaker 1: it gets turned into that like inspiration feel like the
Speaker 1: feel good emotions, like where the person with the disabilities
Speaker 1: being objectified to make other people feel good or better
Speaker 1: about their lives. And I almost feel like it's impossible
Speaker 1: for that to not happen. No matter the tone of
Speaker 1: the movie or TV show or what music they use
Speaker 1: or the lines the person has, people are still gonna
Speaker 1: see it that way because that's just like what happens.
Speaker 1: It's almost just women are always going to be seen
Speaker 1: a certain way by men because that's just what happens.
Speaker 1: And it's very frustrating because it's like we don't want
Speaker 1: that to happen. So I definitely think representations better, but
Speaker 1: there's still room for improvement. The one really good movie
Speaker 1: I watched a few months ago was the film version
Speaker 1: of the book Out of My Mind, and it's about
Speaker 1: I think preteen eighteen with cerebral palsy, and it was
Speaker 1: so good, Like they definitely made it known her disabilities
Speaker 1: a part of herself. It was very progressive and definitely
Speaker 1: not that inspiration feel good vibe. It kept it showed
Speaker 1: the challenges of her experience, but also the amazing parts
Speaker 1: of her experience. So I really liked that. So that
Speaker 1: gave me hope for the future of.
Speaker 3: I love that. It's funny.
Speaker 2: One of my shows that I watched, it's called Tracker
Speaker 2: on Paramount and one of the characters they never talk
Speaker 2: about it, but he doesn't have his leg and so
Speaker 2: he's an amputee.
Speaker 3: It's never think he's just a character.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's not to see more of.
Speaker 2: And as you're talking about this, I'm like, I want
Speaker 2: to recognize that because I feel for me as someone
Speaker 2: who just I really pay attention to characters and I
Speaker 2: love seeing the evolution of inclusion.
Speaker 3: And that's so cool.
Speaker 2: To me because he's just a character, that's who he is,
Speaker 2: and he's helping out this main character in this storyline.
Speaker 1: I love that. Yes, I'm so glad you mentioned that
Speaker 1: because the movie I mentioned is about disability. But it's
Speaker 1: even cooler when it's there's a disabled character and.
Speaker 3: That's just what they're just a character.
Speaker 2: They're just a human being, which at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, what people what disabilities are as a human being.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and it's not all we talk about, like
Speaker 1: even though like I love talking about it and do advocacy,
Speaker 1: there's so much more to me than that too, And
Speaker 1: not in a way of my disability being inferior to
Speaker 1: the other aspects of me, but like just the same
Speaker 1: as the other aspects of my personality, like me being
Speaker 1: talkative and me having a disability kind of the same thing.
Speaker 2: Yes, And that actually that perfectly leads me to the
Speaker 2: last question that I was going to ask you, because
Speaker 2: I saw you say something that you want to be
Speaker 2: seen as a physically disabled young woman that you're also aligned.
Speaker 3: With all of your other identities.
Speaker 2: Yes, share with people why that matters so much, because
Speaker 2: it's what you were just talking about.
Speaker 3: But I want you to expand further.
Speaker 1: Yes, I love that stood out to you because yeah,
Speaker 1: I do say I want to be seen as the
Speaker 1: physically disabled young woman that I am, along with all
Speaker 1: my other qualities and things about my personality. And I
Speaker 1: say that because if we try to ignore that my
Speaker 1: disability exists. Like I was touching on earlier with how
Speaker 1: I felt with some friendships over the years, it feels
Speaker 1: like people aren't seeing the full picture of me because
Speaker 1: so much of who I am has to do with
Speaker 1: my disability, because it impacts my life every day. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, I don't want it to be
Speaker 1: seen as some pity thing or some sad tragedy or
Speaker 1: anything like that. It's just part of me, and it's
Speaker 1: just as much a part of me as me being outgoing,
Speaker 1: me being confident, me loving social media, like they're all
Speaker 1: just parts of me and integral parts of me and
Speaker 1: big parts of my identity and everything I do is
Speaker 1: shaped by my disability in a way, because I can't
Speaker 1: not think about how that impacts my life or impacts
Speaker 1: where I go and what I do. I like to
Speaker 1: say that, and I think it also normalizes disability being
Speaker 1: just part of someone, a big part of their identity
Speaker 1: and who they are.
Speaker 2: Then I know that was supposed to be my last
Speaker 2: question that I had written here. It led me to
Speaker 2: ask something else because I would imagine that you're in
Speaker 2: the perfect place of your life where you're dating and
Speaker 2: exploring opportunities in dating.
Speaker 3: What's that experience been like for you?
Speaker 2: Because I imagine it's a little bit different, and you're also
Speaker 2: looking for a very specific partner.
Speaker 1: Yes, I love that you asked this. I feel like
Speaker 1: in high school, especially, I was not interested in dating.
Speaker 1: I was just like, I'm here to go to school.
Speaker 1: I lived far from my school, so I had to
Speaker 1: get up really early to go and didn't have much
Speaker 1: time to do homework and just like rest. So in
Speaker 1: high school, I didn't even really think about it. In college,
Speaker 1: I guess I got this idea, oh, I'll find my
Speaker 1: future husband in college. And then I went to a
Speaker 1: super small school with eighteen hundred students total, and there
Speaker 1: were a few, like slightly more females than males there,
Speaker 1: and so it just didn't happen. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not forcing anything to happen. And I also realized
Speaker 1: any time I tried, I just didn't even feel like
Speaker 1: putting in the effort. So I just realized it wasn't
Speaker 1: a priority. College. I've thought about a bit more a
Speaker 1: little bit, but once again, I'm still like, it's just
Speaker 1: not really something I'm super desiring to do. But I
Speaker 1: will say it's interesting because the times I've met guys,
Speaker 1: we've gone out or we're at a bar, I'm talking
Speaker 1: to someone, I feel like they have no clue. I'm
Speaker 1: always just thinking. I had like, these guys are so clueless.
Speaker 1: And I actually was talking to a guy I don't
Speaker 1: know a few months ago outside a bar, like two
Speaker 1: in the morning, and we were just talking, messing around,
Speaker 1: and he grabbed both of my hands while we were talking.
Speaker 1: He was like, your hands are so soft. And it's
Speaker 1: so funny because people say my hands are softer because
Speaker 1: there's not as much muscle tone, so they literally are softer.
Speaker 1: And I was like, this dude has no freaking clue.
Speaker 1: And I was just like, oh, I use hand cream.
Speaker 3: I love this experience for you.
Speaker 1: It's so funny. So honestly, okay, all that to say,
Speaker 1: I just feel like they don't really know guys. They're
Speaker 1: not thinking that deeply honestly about much, and especially not
Speaker 1: a disability. But it's actually cast some interesting thoughts for me,
Speaker 1: because back to the how I want to be seen thing,
Speaker 1: I don't want it to be something that guys are
Speaker 1: like or weird about or tiptoe around. And I feel
Speaker 1: like guys are weird about it with me because they
Speaker 1: can look at me and forget about it and push
Speaker 1: it to the back of their minds and just see
Speaker 1: the five foot blonde girl and then I fit into
Speaker 1: that stereotype and that feels weird too, Like I want
Speaker 1: them to see it just like how I do with
Speaker 1: my friends, and I don't know. Maybe that'll happen eventually,
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to force anything to happen, so
Speaker 1: we'll see. But it's definitely more complicated as a disabled person,
Speaker 1: and you have to be even more safe with it
Speaker 1: too than most women too. I'm constantly thinking about how
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep myself safe and what information I
Speaker 1: would reveal to someone and keep to myself, because you
Speaker 1: don't want to seem extra vulnerable because you're already vulnerable
Speaker 1: as the woman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, there's so many vulnerabilities and you're just
Speaker 2: piling onto that. Yeah, And I love that you're not
Speaker 2: forcing it, because I do. I think there's somebody for everybody,
Speaker 2: and I think you'll meet someone who is going to
Speaker 2: recognize you for you and have those conversations for you
Speaker 2: and not put it in the back of their mind,
Speaker 2: because that's also what you deserve.
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, Yes, Yeah, I feel like but if
Speaker 1: I want that to happen, I'll be able to make
Speaker 1: that happen too when the time is right. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: twenty three is also so young.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you got so much time.
Speaker 1: I think people freak out and they're like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I need to find someone in college and then right
Speaker 1: after college, and twenty three is so young. I'm not
Speaker 1: rushed at all.
Speaker 2: Sarah tied if I could look back at my life
Speaker 2: and the person that I was at twenty three is
Speaker 2: vastly different than the person I am now thirty one.
Speaker 1: I'm sure so much growth happens, like it does so much.
Speaker 1: The twenties are pivotal time for growth.
Speaker 2: They are, and they're so much fun to do by yourself, honestly,
Speaker 2: so keep doing it. But I wanted to ask because
Speaker 2: I do know that's such an important part of this
Speaker 2: life for you.
Speaker 3: I do like to end on.
Speaker 2: A piece of advice or a piece of something that
Speaker 2: maybe we didn't get to that maybe you want to
Speaker 2: share in.
Speaker 3: This is open ended. You can go in any direction
Speaker 3: that you want with this.
Speaker 1: I think lately I've been talking a lot about confidence
Speaker 1: and self advocacy on social media, and so I just
Speaker 1: want to leave everyone with, especially if you're a disabled person,
Speaker 1: don't be afraid to stand up for what you need.
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid to ask a stranger for help. I
Speaker 1: know it's so easy for me to say that, but
Speaker 1: I still feel scared when I ask a random person
Speaker 1: for help because I don't know how they're going to respond.
Speaker 1: But I think trying your best to just do those
Speaker 1: things and recognize it's okay to be scared while you're
Speaker 1: doing it is good because there's so much power in
Speaker 1: advocating for yourself and it will make you a more
Speaker 1: confident person. You'll be a better communicator, you'll be more assertive,
Speaker 1: and especially if you're a woman, like it feels so
Speaker 1: good be able to be like that as a woman.
Speaker 1: So I really love to encourage that with people, and
Speaker 1: remember that you don't need to reveal any medical details
Speaker 1: to anyone when you're asking for help, and you can
Speaker 1: keep it succinct and kind and assertive. And I just
Speaker 1: like to encourage people to do that as much as possible.
Speaker 1: But I know it's difficult, so it sounds easy for
Speaker 1: me to say, but there's a lot of power and
Speaker 1: self advocacy. I'll leave with that.
Speaker 2: There absolutely is, and there's also power in people like
Speaker 2: me to make sure that we respond accordingly and also
Speaker 2: kind and also open minded.
Speaker 3: It's an important message for everybody.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being here, for coming on,
Speaker 2: for talking about these things that I do know that
Speaker 2: it's hard.
Speaker 1: Yes, I really love this. This is one of my
Speaker 1: favorite conversations I feel like I've had on a podcast.
Speaker 1: You ask such great questions.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad it's important for me to be a
Speaker 2: conversation and most of the time we leave as friends.
Speaker 2: So if you ever end up being here Nashville in person,
Speaker 2: we'll do another interview in person.
Speaker 1: I will. I love Nashville, so we should totally do that.
Speaker 3: That would be so much fun.
Speaker 2: But Sarah Todd, thank you so much for coming on,
Speaker 2: and thank you again for what you're doing for the
Speaker 2: disabled community and for yourself.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, Morgan.
Speaker 2: Sarah Todd Hammer was so much fun talking too, and
Speaker 2: not only a great leader but also an awesome human.
Speaker 2: In the coming weeks, I'll be doing episodes on friendship,
Speaker 2: health and wellness, veterans and one of my favorite dog
Speaker 2: rescuers on social media. Subscribe so you don't miss an episode.
Speaker 2: I can't wait for you guys to hear these, and
Speaker 2: as always, I'm so happy you're here.
Speaker 3: I love you. Bye.