1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Cozon Media. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 2: Hey everyone, it's me James, and before we listen to 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 2: this episode today, I just did want to make you 4 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 2: aware that I conducted these interviews in French and Spanish, 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 2: mostly Spanish, and then transcribed and translated them. So what 6 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 2: you're hearing is a translated interview that's being edited for 7 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 2: brevity and content. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Every 8 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 2: day for the past two years, the population of Bajo 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: Chiquito has more than tripled. At six in the morning, 10 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 2: piraguas come from other Emberra villages along the river, dozens 11 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 2: of them, all filled with orange life jackets. Migrants form 12 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: a line so long that it stretches from the beach 13 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: north of town all the way through the village and 14 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: at the other side, and in groups of fifteen, they 15 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 2: hand over their twenty five dollars each and get onto 16 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: the piraguas. Each one puts on their bright orange life jacket, 17 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: sits with their legs around the person in front, and 18 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: they take off for the first official migrant recept center 19 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 2: in last blankets. As the last boat leaves, those who 20 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: can't afford the trip begin a walk, which could take 21 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 2: eight hours. I couldn't walk with them, but I handed 22 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 2: the group my water filter in one of those overbright 23 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: energy bars that are basically trail mix in a rectangular format, 24 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: and wish them the best of luck as they force 25 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: their tired legs and sore feet to walk again. The 26 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: population of Barjuqito dropped back to five hundred or so 27 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: indigenous people who live here, and the usual background noise 28 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: of chattering dozens of languages gave way to crowing chickens 29 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: and barking dogs. By the next morning, as migrants came 30 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: walking in from the south, it would grow again to 31 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 2: fifteen hundred. For the last ten years or so, fewer 32 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 2: than two thousand people crossed in a year, but numbers 33 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: have been steadily increasing, and now the residents of Bajo 34 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: Juquito see the numbers that they saw in a year. 35 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 2: In a single weekend. While you listen to this series, 36 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 2: thousands of people will take their lives into their hands 37 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: as they leap into mudcolored rivers, ascend towering mountains in 38 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 2: the pouring rain, and desperately fight the urge to drink 39 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: from a river polluted with human waste, decaying corpses. All 40 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: of those who survive will walk out of that jungle 41 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: up the river bank along a muddy path and into 42 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 2: Bajo Juquito. Well, they'll buy themselves a cold drink and 43 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: enjoy the hospitality of the locals for a night before 44 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: leaving to head north. At first, the locals told me 45 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: didn't charge people at all. They were shocked to see 46 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: the migrants and wanted to help them, But as numbers grew, 47 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: they had to start asking for money, as they couldn't 48 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: afford to feed and house all the migrants arriving. Over time, 49 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: they said, the costs rose, and now a bed costs 50 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: about five dollars for a night, and a meal's about 51 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: the same. As they pointed out, that's less than half 52 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 2: what I paid in Metaitee, the nearest town. A metaite 53 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: doesn't have to haul its supplies up the river in 54 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: a canoe using seven dollars per gallon fuel. In Baja Juguito, 55 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 2: I sat down with an order man whose front room 56 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 2: I just had luncheon. I wanted to get a scent 57 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: to the change he'd seen over his lifetime in his 58 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: community and how he felt about it. 59 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 3: When we saw how they arrived injured, sick with vomiting diarrhea. 60 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 3: Then there was no healthcare here what did we do. 61 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 3: We had to speak for the government. It wasn't easy. 62 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 3: It was not easy. We told them that we needed 63 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 3: a doctor. And finally, now, thank god, we have doctors here. 64 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: The community, which has long been socially and economically marginalized 65 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: and acutely underprovided with government services, had built a house 66 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: themselves for the doctors and another house for migration officials. 67 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 2: It was the only way to help migrants access services, 68 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: which in turn allowed them to move on with their 69 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: journeys quicker, he said. However, like almost every other person 70 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: I spoke with, he felt that the government should be 71 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: doing more here. Even after all these years serving as 72 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: the first Panamanian village, many thousands of people enter every year. 73 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: They still don't have electric or a road that's successible 74 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: year round, both of which would make their lives and 75 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: the transit of the migrants much safer. But that doesn't 76 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: mean the state's totally absent here. It used to be 77 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: possible for migrants to take a paragua from come Galina 78 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 2: a little further south up river and avoid some of 79 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 2: the most dangerous river crossings. Bonio told me that authorities 80 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 2: in the comarca, which is like a state in the 81 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: USA have prohibited this. I wanted to see more of 82 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: what was going on further south and what made it 83 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 2: so dangerous, but I wasn't permitted to join a Center 84 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 2: Front patrol going out that way despite my request. I 85 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 2: asked Bonnio what made things more dangerous in that part 86 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 2: of the river. First, he explained that the wide and 87 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: low lying beaches often seen make good points for migrants 88 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 2: to sleep, but that any rain in the mountains above 89 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 2: would result in the rapid increase of the water level, 90 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 2: turning those beaches into rapids in minutes, he told me, 91 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: looking down at the table. Then, not so long ago, 92 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 2: a storm had washed away sleeping migrants, drowning them in 93 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 2: their sleep and washing their remains towards his village. But 94 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: terrible as it is, isn't the only risk. 95 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 3: What they said, you know very well that there's not 96 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 3: a single country that does not have criminals. In every country, 97 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 3: there are criminals. Yeah, So what happens at that point 98 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 3: in the river, as I was saying, at that point, 99 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 3: and clearly it is not everyone, but there are some 100 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 3: certain young men who engage in robbery and even rape. 101 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 3: So that's why in this community, in this village, in 102 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 3: coordination with the community and the leaders, we well. The 103 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 3: leader spoke to the national government to ask for a 104 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 3: chance to transport people from call Gaina so that nothing 105 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 3: would happen to them. The government talked and talked, and 106 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 3: for a while it was possible, and it was safe, 107 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 3: and nobody died and nobody robbed. It was all going well. 108 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 3: But what happened. We have a leader at Caske. I 109 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 3: don't know if you've heard about it, but the regional 110 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 3: leader he put a barrier, he stopped it. Look to 111 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 3: be honest, these people with their degrees, this class of person, 112 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 3: they're not humanitarians. 113 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 2: Despite the struggles and the relative absence of the government overall, 114 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: he felt that the migration had been a positive for 115 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: his community. He'd learned a lot from the migrants, he said, 116 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: and enjoyed learning about their cuisines in particular. There's a 117 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: common narrative in media that mentions Barji Guito that this 118 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 2: village has been somehow stripped of its culture or ruined 119 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 2: by migration, but the locals don't seem to agree with this. 120 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 2: I also spoke to the vilities leader. She's the first 121 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 2: woman in the whole commarker to hold such a position, you're. 122 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: I'm chief of the community police and leader of the community. 123 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: She explained to me that Barju Guito was just one 124 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,119 Speaker 2: of several communities along the river, each with its own leader. 125 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: Those leaders meet in the council an answer to a 126 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 2: casike of the. 127 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 4: Mara Ganti di Yatala Inovilla. 128 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: She also explained that as the first woman in the position, 129 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 2: she'd made sure to advance the cause of women in 130 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: her community. 131 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: Since they've had my administration, which has been seven months 132 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: as noca or leader, I have put some women to work. 133 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: They are waiting for the migrants. 134 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 2: There After that, I asked her to explain to listeners 135 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: what exactly a migrant encounters when they first set foot 136 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: in their village and the various steps that they might 137 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: go through before leaving the next morning. 138 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 3: Is very. 139 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: There is a check in at first, verification of whether 140 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: they have a crime in their country. From there they 141 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: got immigration. The documents are checked and then they are 142 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: free to choose where they're going to wait and rest 143 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: for the next part of their journey. On behalf of UNICEF, 144 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: we have free toilets from the community. We also have 145 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: a free place where they can camp or rest. That's 146 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: theirs now. If they want better things, better rest, they 147 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: can find accommodation available in almost every house here. The 148 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: next day we prepare everything at together with the center 149 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: front security. We go to the beach there and at 150 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: the beach we also coordinate with a coordinator from each village. 151 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: I also want to make it clear as well that 152 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: the boat driver must have their idea and be of 153 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: legal age. 154 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: From there, the migrants pay twenty five dollars ahead and 155 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 2: take the five hour boat trip north to Lahas Blancas, 156 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: which is the UN and government run camp and the 157 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: first official migrant welcome center outside the DADDI enn Having 158 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: boat drivers who are of age is important. Migrants who 159 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 2: can't swim trust their lives to these boat drivers in 160 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: high water. Once they're at Last Blankers, they're close to 161 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 2: the Pan American Highway and the beginning of the rest 162 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 2: of their journey north. They don't have to walk any 163 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 2: further unless they run out of money for buses. I 164 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: asked what happened when someone couldn't afford the ride to 165 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 2: Last blancers Y. 166 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: What does the community do? The community takes responsibility presending them, 167 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: not the state. The state migration Cenafron. They don't pay 168 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: for the fuel or the transport of these people. 169 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 2: Specifically, she told me the community sends three free boats today. 170 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: Most of these are filled of women and children, and 171 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: in my time there and seeing that these people paid 172 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 2: whatever they could those leftover, usually men would have to 173 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 2: make the walk on their blistered feet and tired legs 174 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: and risk further sickness, robbery, and heat exhaustion. I also 175 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 2: wanted to ask a leader about the problems with theft 176 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 2: and sexual assault that the migrants encountered on their walk 177 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: into Bajo Jiguito, and she was pretty forthright this was 178 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 2: an issue for the state, not for her community to fix. 179 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: But then where is Senafron. Aren't Sanafrat supposed to be 180 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: on all the banks of the river, Yes, so where 181 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: are those thefts? 182 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 2: Despite being able to prevent the Empire from using their 183 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 2: boats on their river to transport migrants them at any 184 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 2: level above the village isn't really present In Baigo Center 185 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: Front Panamas, combined border patrol and military received migrants and 186 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: register them there, but all the services provided to the 187 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 2: migrants come either from the Emberrad or from non governmental organizations. 188 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 2: This pattern of the state failing to provide basic services. 189 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 2: When Neil told me is one that goes back a 190 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 2: long time before the migrants began arriving here, or. 191 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 3: So now, before the migrants began arriving here, we had 192 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 3: a town, a town that the government is supposed to 193 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 3: give what it has to give us as Panamanians, but 194 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 3: it doesn't. It was a town without anything. All we 195 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 3: did was sell our products and sell stuff here for us. 196 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 3: We grow rice, corn plantains, everything. Well, it was a lot, 197 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 3: but products that we grow are not enough to get by. 198 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 2: Even today in late twenty twenty four. The village doesn't 199 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 2: have mains electricity or does it have a connection to 200 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 2: telephone networks or a road that it can take year 201 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 2: round to connect it to the rest of the country. 202 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 2: And a few clean water taps in the town come 203 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: from UNICEF, not Panama City. Doctors here come from European NGOs, 204 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 2: and even the policing of the community is largely done 205 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,599 Speaker 2: by the community, by a group called the Zara. And 206 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 2: never to better understand that, but our communities, both with 207 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 2: and without migrants. I wanted to visit another Embero village 208 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 2: and after the break we'll hear about that. 209 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 4: All right, So I'm just in my hammock now kind 210 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 4: of the end of the day. We we're staying in 211 00:11:55,200 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 4: another end our village today, just probably I mean a 212 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 4: better say kilometer or two kilometers away, you know, probably 213 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 4: decent walk, but it was pretty fast in the Perragua. 214 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 4: Just it's a little more peaceful here. And a boat 215 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 4: driver passed us to stay at his house, so we 216 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 4: said we would. You can probably hear like, I don't 217 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 4: know how much of this is getting picked up. It's 218 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 4: a nice little village, you know, the fucking way till 219 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 4: the dogs have stopped. I guess. 220 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 2: When I wasn't in Bajo, I took a boat every 221 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 2: evening to Maraganti. Maraganti is only a couple of kilometers 222 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 2: away on a different branch of the river, but the 223 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 2: walk might dig hours through the thick jungle. Perraguero had 224 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: invited us to stay with his family and to see 225 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 2: another bar our village. I'm always down to sleep outside, 226 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 2: so I gladly accepted his invitation and slung my hammock 227 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: across his front porch. After a long discussion on whether 228 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: the dynamic cordage I was using would actually hold my 229 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: weight and on my part, I probably ill advised free 230 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: solo onto the roof of his house to find a 231 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 2: good anchor point for my hammock. My time in Maragante, 232 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 2: I found myself growing fonder and fond of his little community. 233 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 2: Everyone's doors were open, and the village children enjoyed unsupervised 234 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 2: playtime everywhere. There was never not a pickup game going 235 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 2: on at the concrete football and basketball court. And despite 236 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: the fact that they were on average several feet short 237 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: than me and playing on concrete without shoes, local kids 238 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: humiliated me at a wide variety of sports with no 239 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 2: electricity of them generators, one Wi Fi connection in the 240 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 2: whole village as far as I can tell, and a 241 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 2: few hours to myself. In the evening, I happily settled 242 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 2: into a routine of watching in a river along with 243 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: everyone else in the hour before sunset, walking around town, 244 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 2: chatting with the inhabitants, who seemed surprised but happy to 245 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: see a gangly British man nambling around the neighborhood and 246 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 2: petting their dogs. Once it got dark, I'd spend my 247 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 2: evening sitting in my hammer. The grandchildren of our host 248 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 2: asked me how to say various things in English. I 249 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 2: played with the little toys I always bring along in 250 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 2: case I run into children on my work trips. Being 251 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: in Marragantine made me think a lot about my own 252 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: life and the US in general. I certainly have a 253 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 2: lot more possessions here, but my neighbors don't let their 254 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: kids run around in the streets, and cars would hit 255 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 2: them if they did. People in my community the next 256 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 2: door app is anything to go by, spendcing mely countless 257 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: hours bitching about the unhoused and other people's children. But 258 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: here everyone had a roof over their heads, and other 259 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 2: people's children ran in and out my host's kitchen without 260 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: anyone batting an eyelid. Aside from laughing at my paleness 261 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 2: when I was washing in the river, nobody here seemed 262 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 2: that concerned that I was different. They let me hold 263 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 2: their babies while they cooked. They didn't overcharge me for 264 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: the bottles of water of snacks that I bought from 265 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: their front room convenience stores, or seemed that bothered about 266 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 2: sharing their meals and their homes with me. At night, 267 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 2: we sat on tiny plastic chairs and talked about our 268 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 2: shared interest in woodwork and what they wanted for their children. 269 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: We talked about their boats and the river, and about 270 00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: how terrible things must be for the migrants to risk 271 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 2: their lives making the journey across these mountains that the 272 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 2: Emberra and their Guna neighbors call home. Ever since I 273 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 2: left their village, I've been thinking a lot about the 274 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 2: part of The Dawn of Everything in which Grab and 275 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 2: Wengrove detail how many indigenous people were adopted into colonial 276 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: society but chose to return to their communities, how they 277 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 2: settlers in indigenous communities often chose to remain among the 278 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: indigenous communities. I don't wish to romanticize the very real 279 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 2: struggles yembra I have with their economic marginalization and lack 280 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 2: of access to basic services compared to other Panamanians. But 281 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 2: I just want to reflect on the fact that there 282 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 2: was something really special about the little river community, where 283 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 2: dogs and chickens and ducks woke me up in the morning, 284 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 2: little children welcomed me back every evening. They told me 285 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 2: what they did at school, or tossed a little ball 286 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: back and forth, and seemed entirely comfortable chatting to an 287 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: adult From across the world. The people about Jiguito have 288 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: shown that same hospitality to migrants and indeed to me. 289 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: And so I wanted to ask the village leader how 290 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 2: migration had changed her community. Some one else I spoke to. 291 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 2: She insisted that they had held on to important parts 292 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 2: of their culture, which he illustrated by giving me a 293 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: history lesson. 294 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: The town of Bajo Chiquito was founded in nineteen sixty five. 295 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: At first there were three families, the Vaparizo, the Risales, 296 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: the Chagos. They came here for education reasons. Before everyone 297 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: lived on their own. The education came, and that is 298 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: why we grew this town. 299 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 2: It was the education, she said, that had changed town, 300 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 2: not the migrants. They have night school now for adults 301 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: and a school for all the children with seven teachers. 302 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: The children speak Embaba and Spanish and have a chance 303 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: to get more education in Metaiti or even in Panama City. 304 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 4: See. 305 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: Yes, it's due to education, not because the migrants travel 306 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: through here. Let this be clear. That is not because 307 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: the migrants came here. 308 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: Cly though the perception of changing their community is a 309 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 2: concern me. They're a local woman marriages, which he called 310 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 2: a Latino man. They can't live together in the village, 311 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 2: and she wanted to make sure, I knew that the 312 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: children learning Emberra as well as Spanish, they also still 313 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 2: knew dances and ceremonies, Bono told me. But some of 314 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 2: the changes, she said were positive, including one in gender relationship. 315 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: That's an ongoing struggle. I'll say that to show that 316 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: we women have the same capacity for thought and creativity 317 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: as men. We are fighting every day, and as you 318 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: will see, it's not easy. 319 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 2: One thing that surprised me was that the Emberra would 320 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 2: always remind me that they themselves had been migrants. They 321 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 2: migrated to Panama City sometimes, they said, and they have 322 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 2: a little choice if they want post secondary education or 323 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 2: higher level medical attention. Some of their kids even make 324 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 2: the journey to the USA to study. What kind of 325 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 2: hypocrites would they be, they said, if they look down 326 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: on people making the same journey. 327 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you that before the immigrants arrived here, 328 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 3: within this community, we lived in the same way. I mean, 329 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 3: we came from the countryside, We worked in agriculture, and 330 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 3: we still continue working in the agriculture stuff, fishing, hunting, 331 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 3: and so on. We liked it a lot. Now after 332 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 3: the immigrants started to come, we are still the same 333 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 3: and it doesn't affect us having them within our community 334 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 3: because they are their people, They're humans. The journey that 335 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 3: the immigrants make is out of need. It is in need, 336 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 3: so really we too, for example, if we were to 337 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 3: deal with problems like them, since we are just like them, 338 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 3: we also have the right to emigrate as well. 339 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 2: This is not the first influx of migration into Embra 340 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 2: Guna land. In fifteen oh one, a wave of undocumented 341 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 2: immigration from Spain in the form of settler colonias like 342 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: Francisco Balboa arrived in the Guna and Embera territories. Ever 343 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 2: since his Europeans first saw for themselves what the ember 344 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 2: already knew that this area was part of narrow strip 345 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: of land between two great oceans. People from around the 346 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 2: world have been coming to what is now Panama as 347 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 2: part of their journeys from north to south or east 348 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 2: to west. The thin strip of land that joins the 349 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 2: two American continents has been at the crossroads of the 350 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 2: world for half a millennium. Archaeological digs in a region 351 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 2: show that there were once roads and that gold and 352 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 2: jade came here from Afar. This ritinalization is one that 353 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: Vasco Nunes de Balboa first encountered, and it was they 354 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 2: who first told him that their land lay between two oceans. 355 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 2: It was somewhere just to the south of where I 356 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 2: was staying. That exactly five hundred eleven years ago to 357 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 2: the day, Barboa became the first European to set eyes 358 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: upon the Pacific. Since Barbara, many other colonizers have come 359 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 2: to Dabien to pit their notions of superiority against the 360 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 2: might of the rainforest. The Kingdom of Scotland sent a 361 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 2: group of settlers here in a seventeenth century mounted the side. 362 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 1: This isn't a. 363 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 2: Place with any similarity to Scotland, and it's easy enough 364 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 2: to see why the plan failed, killed three out of 365 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 2: four colonists and essentially bankrupted an entire nation in two years, 366 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 2: forcing it into a colonial relationship with its own with 367 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 2: its neighbor to the south. After the Scot's left, having 368 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: failed to create what they'd hoped would be a quote 369 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: Scottish Amsterdam of the Indies, and a Spanish found a 370 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 2: flatter and easier connection between the Pacific and Caribbean. The 371 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 2: Dadian region returned to its indigenous people, whose hem it remains, 372 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 2: but over the course of several hundred years, many empires 373 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 2: have come to the Daddi End to die. The French 374 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 2: tried to build a sea level collout not so far 375 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 2: from here, the canal without locks, but they ultimately failed. 376 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 2: The US tried in the eighteen fifties and eighteen seventies 377 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 2: to forge a route to build a canal to get 378 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 2: east coast banks access to West coast gold, before eventually 379 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 2: finding an easier route further north. A century later, the 380 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 2: US and Panama openly discussed dropping nuclear bombs on the 381 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 2: jungle to make it passable and to allow the construction 382 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 2: of a road. The US offered to shoulder two thirds 383 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 2: of the cost of building such a road and hope 384 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 2: to have the Pan American Highway completed in time for 385 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 2: its nineteen seventy six by centennial. The GAP's hostility in 386 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 2: the growing environmental movement, as well as a desire to 387 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 2: protect US livestock from the foot of mouth disease. It's 388 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 2: ademic in South America one the day the gap remained 389 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 2: a gap latly without the influence of the state. In 390 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies, a British Army expedition traversed to Daddi 391 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 2: En in two range rivers. Assisted by horses, parachute drop 392 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 2: resupplies and a team of engineers, they crossed the jungle 393 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 2: in ninety six days. They had to make their own 394 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 2: bugnets for their horses out of the parachute, so we 395 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 2: used to drop corn cobs to the animals and rice 396 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: for the humans. Expedition leader and seasoned explorer, as well 397 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 2: as possibly the most British Man in history, Lieutenant Colonel 398 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 2: John Blashford Snell wrote, without doubt it was the hardest 399 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 2: thing I've ever done in my life. Calling the daddy 400 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: Enne a god forsaken place, but dadi Enne is one 401 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 2: of the wettest places on the planet, a particularly cruel 402 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 2: twist that it would be colonizers from Scotland. In the months 403 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 2: before I came here, I spent hours trying to work 404 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 2: out how to water prove my podcast equipment, and most 405 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 2: of what you're hearing is recorded on a voice recorder 406 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 2: that I sealed up with gasket maker, shoved inside a condom, 407 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 2: inside a dry bag, inside a pelican case. This rain 408 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 2: causes flash flooding, the kind which sweeps whole villages away. 409 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 2: The rivers in the gap On Bridge largely because they 410 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 2: simply wash away bridges after a storm. On our journey 411 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,719 Speaker 2: to Barjigito, I saw the remains of bridges that had 412 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 2: dared to try. That's why my hosts built their houses 413 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 2: on stilts, and it's on those stilts that I slung 414 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 2: my hammock in Maraganti. Ever since the failed dalli En schime, 415 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 2: the Gap has been constructed in the Western imagination as 416 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 2: the deepest and darkest jungle. The Gap today is home 417 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 2: to every type of malaria and numerous others diseases. There 418 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: are deadly vipers, deadly spiders, big cats, and as if 419 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 2: the natural threats were not enough, the US dropped bombs 420 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 2: here in the Cold War to test its destructive might 421 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 2: against one of the few areas of the planet that 422 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 2: hadn't been made amenable to capitalism. Many of them remain 423 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 2: unexploded in the mountains. Certainly, the physical geography of the 424 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 2: dalli impost is a challenge, but I would argue that 425 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 2: the imaginative geography of the Gap which is a greater 426 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 2: impediment to travelers. In Spanish they call it the up 427 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 2: on the Stopper. Local legend has it that the Spanish conquistador, 428 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 2: one of the first to take his last breaths in 429 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 2: the waters of dalli Enn's rivers carved the phrase into 430 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 2: the rock, which is endured long after he expired. When 431 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 2: you go to the daddi Ennes and trust yourself to Mary, 432 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 2: for in her hands of the entrance and in God 433 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 2: see exit, it doesn't sound that different to the things 434 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 2: I heard from migrants and in the modern day, they'll 435 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 2: tell you about the horrific tiktoks they saw before they 436 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: entered the Gap and the decaying remains fellow travelers they 437 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 2: saw us they passed through. Media reports in the Gap 438 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 2: consistently referred to it as a nomad's land, but of 439 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 2: course it's very much someone's land, the land of the 440 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: indigenous people who have been here long before countries, borders 441 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 2: or reporters. While it may have remained hostiles to capitalism 442 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 2: and the state, and it can be deadly for unexperienced travelers, 443 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 2: it's supported life for thousands of years. And I wait 444 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 2: about how Jigito. I was reminded of just how comfortable 445 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: my hosts were in a place where I felt so 446 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 2: out of place. 447 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 4: So as we were coming, we are calling a huge 448 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 4: range storm just absolutely bucketing it down suddenly and pulled 449 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 4: in to a little sort of just a flat area 450 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 4: of mighterily. I helped out TI out the boat, and 451 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 4: next thing I know, our boat guys ran into jungle, 452 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 4: chopped some huge palm leaves down and brought them back 453 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 4: to me to cover me in my bag. 454 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 2: Well, the umberd might have preserved their comfort and culture. 455 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 2: It's undeniable that migration should have made a huge economic impact. 456 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 2: Nine and fifty nine migrants left Bajo Jigito on one 457 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 2: of the days I was able to get numbers from Senafront. 458 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 2: Each of them paid twenty five dollars for piagua, about 459 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 2: ten bucks for food and lodging and maybe Wi Fi, 460 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 2: and pressed a few bucks more for clean clothes or 461 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 2: a pair of off Bran crocs to let their feet 462 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 2: heel from three days have been constantly wet and blistered, 463 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 2: and a concerned vestimate that's a little more than thirty 464 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 2: three thousand per day, raptly the GDP per capital of Panama. 465 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 2: That's a lot of money down here, especially for community 466 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 2: which has been alienated and exploited for solo. Using this money, 467 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 2: people have been closed the bottom floors of their homes 468 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 2: to provide more space to house migrants. All around the village. 469 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 2: They're building better homes. Some of them have satellite internet 470 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 2: now or Starlink or bigger and more reliable generators. This 471 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 2: money has been spread around the Mberaur communities in the area, 472 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: and every morning each of them send pedaguas to transport 473 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 2: the migrants. As almost sixty you needed every day. Rolling 474 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 2: out of Maragante at five in the morning, as almost 475 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,479 Speaker 2: the entire adult male population of the village joined us 476 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 2: in a huge flatilla of two stroke smoke and dugout 477 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 2: canoes and the morning mists still sat in the river. 478 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 2: Was an incredible experience, and this is doubtless an industry 479 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: for the whole area. 480 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: Now. 481 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 2: If Molino Majorcas ever successfully stops migration here, it will 482 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: be a massive economic detriment to the people, already marginalized 483 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 2: for centuries. But despite the economic benefits, the people of 484 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 2: Madragante doesn't seem to want to become like Baha Juquito. 485 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 2: On our last day there, as we set off back 486 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 2: towards the dirt roads the borders here, we saw that 487 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 2: they were building little cabins outside of town. These they 488 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 2: said were for the migrants. They wanted the migrants to 489 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 2: be safe and their community to stay the same. They 490 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 2: might not be able to sell meals to the migrants 491 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 2: this way, or charge them for Wi Fi or phone charging, 492 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 2: but they will be able to live a little more peacefully. 493 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 2: M But I have gone out of their way to 494 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 2: ensure migrant safety. They're the ones who mandate life jackets 495 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 2: and the ones who build a house for doctors. They're 496 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,959 Speaker 2: the ones who send free boats for women and children. 497 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 2: Of course they have an economic incentive to do this, 498 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 2: but in nearly a week living with them, I didn't 499 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 2: hear them bad mouth for migrants, and nor did I 500 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: hear the migrants complain about the way they were treated 501 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: in the village of Bajo Jiquito. But before they get 502 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 2: to the village of Bahjuquito, migrants aren't safe, and if 503 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 2: you ask them, they'll tell you it's indigenous people who 504 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 2: are rubbing and threatening them. Deeper into the jungle, undoubtedly, robbery, 505 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 2: sexual assault and murderer not uncommon in the Daddy and Gap. 506 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 2: You can hear anecdotes of these on daily basis in Baujiquito, 507 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 2: and some of the stories I heard and things I 508 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 2: saw are among the most horrific experiences I've had in years. 509 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 2: Of reporting on pretty terrible things. I haven't included a 510 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 2: great many of them here because I think it's hard 511 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 2: for people to meaningfully consent in those kinds of circumstances. 512 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 2: But yesterday you heard about the human remains that almost 513 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 2: everyone featured in this series had to walk past. This 514 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 2: is a problem that's getting worse, not better. In just 515 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: one week in February, med santen Fontierre, the NGO that 516 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 2: Americans called Doctors Without Borders, treated one hundred and thirteen people, 517 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 2: including nine children, after they were sexually assaulted by criminal 518 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 2: groups in the Darienne. This number is close to one 519 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty people treated during the whole of January. 520 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: These figures are double the monthly average treated in twenty 521 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,959 Speaker 2: twenty three, when six hundred and seventy six people were 522 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 2: treated for the whole year. As you heard before, this 523 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 2: is the problem that people in the community sometimes acknowledge, 524 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 2: and as a village leader mentioned, it's one that could 525 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 2: be solved as the state would live up to its 526 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 2: obligation to protect migrants within its borders. The leader also 527 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 2: shares me that the community has its own punishment mechanisms. 528 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: The place of punishment is the stocks three days ago, 529 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: someone behaved very badly and we had to put them 530 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: in the stocks. The man who mistreats women we also 531 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: put in the stocks. The woman who gossips, we also 532 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: put her in the stocks. 533 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 2: What she's talking about here is stocks in the old 534 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 2: fashioned sense, not in the watery bed sense. We actually 535 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 2: saw someone chatting them one day with their ankles locked 536 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 2: in place. We didn't ask what they did to how 537 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 2: long they were there, as it seems difficult again to 538 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 2: consent to an interview when you're literally pinned in place. 539 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 2: But this kind of punishment comes from the community, not 540 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 2: the state. Aside from these punishments, the community hasn't done 541 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 2: much to stop the things happening in the jungle, and 542 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it's really able to. They're Panamanian, 543 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 2: they say in the state's responsible for the safety of 544 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 2: migrants women's borders, and while it does send center Front 545 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 2: patrols into jungle, the state doesn't appear to be doing 546 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 2: much protect migrants of sexual assault, robbery, or murder. Early 547 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 2: this year, the state did take decisive action to reject 548 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: Medisan sans Fontierre to not reviewing their permission to work 549 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 2: in the dari Enne. This is quite a challenging commission 550 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 2: to obtain, even as a solo journalist. It took months 551 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 2: for me to get mine, forcing me to rebook my 552 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 2: flight several times. I had various explanations for why MSF 553 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 2: were not allowed to keep working. I couldn't get an 554 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 2: official response, but it's probably worth noting that they published 555 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 2: a report headlined lack of action she's sharp rise in 556 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 2: sexual violence on people transiting the dari En Gap on 557 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 2: the twenty ninth of February, and they refused permission to 558 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 2: remain in the region in the first week of March. 559 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 2: MSF was allowed to return in October of this year 560 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 2: and wouldn't comment further than the following statement, which they 561 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 2: e bailed me in mid October. In October of twenty 562 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: twenty four, MSF resumed medical and humanitarian activities at Lahas 563 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 2: Blanca's Migration Reception Center, located at the edge of the 564 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 2: dai In jungle, after Panamanian authorities approved a three month 565 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 2: medical intervention. MSF welcomes its decision and advocates to collaborate 566 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 2: closely with Panama's Ministry of Health to provide comprehensive medical 567 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: care to migrants crossing this route, as well as to 568 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 2: the local population of the area. Right now now, UNICEF, 569 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 2: med Saint Dumont, Corpora and Espanola and the Red Cross 570 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 2: are helping migrants in babu Jiquito. UNICEF and salt showers 571 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 2: and toilets. Global Brigades in UNICEF provided tapped with clean 572 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 2: drinking water, and the medical endeos provide healthcare which is viting, 573 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 2: saving lives and providing survivors of sexual assault with medical 574 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: care in a seventy two hour window where it can 575 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 2: be most beneficial. It's worth noting that most migrants who 576 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 2: are sexually assaulted won't stay depressed charges. I know of 577 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 2: one case of sexual assault of a child while I 578 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 2: was there, but the family wanted to continue their journey 579 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 2: and so the charges won't be pressed. This makes it 580 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 2: very hard to ascertain how many cases sexual assault there 581 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,479 Speaker 2: are in a daily and every year, aside from through 582 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 2: medical reports from NGOs, and those only include the people 583 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 2: who make it to bah Jiquito a Lajas Blancas. The 584 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 2: numbers are clearly high, and it's a fear that many 585 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 2: migrants are articulated to me in the jungle, they're at 586 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 2: their most vulnerable, they said. Most people robbed, they tell me, 587 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 2: are help by armed attackers carrying guns and machetes. But 588 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 2: once a migrants set foot Bario, they're momentarily safe from 589 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 2: rory and assault. For the first time in days. They 590 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 2: can sleep without worry being attacked or washed away. And 591 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 2: the rest of their journeys north they'll face set threat again, 592 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 2: but that's not what's on their mind. When they enter town. 593 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 2: All they want is a cold drink and a warm 594 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 2: meal and a chance to rest their aching feet. It's 595 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 2: a chance that they have thanks to the Ambra people 596 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 2: who receive them there. And I want to end with 597 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 2: and his reflection on the suffering people endure on their 598 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 2: way to eat rice and plantain in his little front 599 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 2: room cafe. Truly, the migrants on this route are not 600 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 2: here because they want to be. They're here because the 601 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 2: economy and their countries is terrible or something. Everything is 602 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 2: going badly on their countries. How can we mistreat them 603 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 2: knowing that we won't not us never. This is a 604 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 2: belief that we have. We are all children of God. 605 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 2: God made the world and humanity, and we are not 606 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 2: that different. We are all brothers. 607 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 5: It could happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 608 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 5: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 609 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 5: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 610 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever. 611 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: You listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for 612 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: it could happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks 613 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: for listening.