WEBVTT - Part Two: The Man Who Ruined New York 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:10.320 Oh, Holy leading Jesus on a cross, his legs broken. 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.680 That's the podcast. Stabbed in the side by a spear. 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:19.320 That's a different that's a different show. Holy that Jesus. 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:25.000 I'm Robert Evans. Are you? I am Robert Evans, the 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:32.960 Jesus of podcasting, crucified, crucified by the need to make content, 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.840 which I do for your souls in the same way 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:44.000 that Jesus died. I'm sorry you're fired. I feel like 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.479 I feel like this is a good direction to go 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.159 is do not. I think it's really going to work 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:53.680 out for so if people love blasphemy, everybody's a big 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.160 fan of blasphemy. That's what made the Beatles so huge. 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.280 It was blasphemy. They were, in fact, bigger than Jesus speaking, 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:04.319 a bigger than Jesus. Bridget Todd my guest today. I'm 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.240 good with that, bro. Yeah, you know what, I'm gonna 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.520 take it. I'll take that intro. I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:15.760 I mean you know the fuck him. Um, Bridget how 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:17.319 are how are you doing? How how are you feeling 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.640 as we go into part two? I'm feeling good. I 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.119 have to, I was telling Sophie before we hit record 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.399 I'm a little bit hungover, but I'm otherwise doing well. 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:31.520 That's great. Um, I am hungover from uh taking a 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.440 bunch of pain killers last night after laser eye surgery. Um. 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:39.199 Just like bridget all, it was an open bar. Oh 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:43.200 ship ye man, open bar. Had a minute since I 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:47.120 had me an open bar. I love great Goose Martini's 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:54.680 I can't be trust bar. Um. So let's uh, what 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.920 do we what do we? What do we bridget? When 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:02.200 we last left off, we're talking about that Jones State Park, 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:06.520 the overpasses that he built real low. Um, We're and 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.600 like kind of the debate to it about it to 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:11.680 this day and kind of the shitty arguments people make 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:13.400 to be like, no, he had to make the bridges 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:17.440 too low for busses. It was prettier that way. Um. 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:20.760 So yeah, and it's it's it's kind of like as 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.280 we kind of talk about the degree to which it's 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.800 fair to blame Moses for making bridges too low, and 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:28.639 you'll find again, you can find a ton of there's 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:30.120 like this whole wave in the last couple of years 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.200 and people being like, actually, Robert Moses did nothing wrong 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.640 and like it's unfair to critique him for that, they 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:37.720 all tend to ignore the fact that not only did 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.320 he like build his bridges super low, but he drafted 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.840 because again he's the legislation guy. Right, He's really good 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.080 at writing laws. One of the things he did was 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.240 he drafted and passed legislation to forbid the use of 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:52.240 busses on parkways. UM because again he wants to cut 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:56.400 off where poor people can travel to um. And and 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:03.800 this is like, uh, he considered, you know, this was 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.040 part of his This was part of his kind of 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:10.280 plan to silo off poor people of color from white 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.920 people in the places white people went affluent white people 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.760 in particular, because he was not just racist, he was classist. UM. 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:18.840 And laws like that kind of like trying to restrict 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.120 busses on parkways where something he would do as like 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.600 an emergency stop gap because he couldn't funk around with 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:28.400 like construction everywhere. Um. But he considered those laws a 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.440 lot less useful in stopping poor people and particularly poor 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.720 people of color um, from living around white people than 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:39.000 he did physical construction. Um. Again, you can change a law. 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.680 A law can be changed overnight, as we're all currently 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.280 dealing with, right. Um. It takes as a court of 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:50.640 returning something or a legislature voting infrastructure has a long lifespan, right, Um, 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:52.520 This is why you know he constructed something like a 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:54.840 hundred and seventy two hundred and eighty bridges that were 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.400 too low for buses. Um, and he saw that kind 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.160 of thing is much more important. He was quoted often 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.800 is saying, quote, legislation can also be changed. It's very 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.680 hard to tear down a bridge once it's up, um, 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.600 and Moses found it considerably easier, in fact, to tear 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:10.760 down the homes of poor black people, which he did 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:14.400 regularly as part of his construction schemes. His justification for 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.840 this was always the need to create a massive network 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.640 of urban highways within New York City. The number one 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:21.440 thing that he did, the thing that people remember him 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.720 fondly for, is he made all these bridges and parks. 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.719 The thing he spent most of his time doing was 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.359 building urban highways, because again, he hates public transportation. He 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.320 fucking loves cars. And not only do urban highways lead 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.960 to congestion, UM, lead to a city in which a 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.400 lot of people have to have cars that would probably 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.080 be happier living off a public transportation. What you can 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.640 do with a highway is you can use it as 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:48.200 a wall, because the highway is a very effective physical barrier. Right, 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.640 you can't like run across the highway, He'll get fucking killed. Um. 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.280 And so he was. He not only built these highways 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.479 and kind of tried to wrench away progress in New 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:01.400 York from towards public transportation, but and and in favor 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.719 of like everyone having their own fucking car. But he 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.880 used the highway to wall off poor, majority black parts 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.559 of the city from affluent white ones. And he also 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.200 made sure that whenever he was constructing a highway, because 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.400 again you're adding a highway to a city that's already 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:16.680 quite dense, you have to destroy a lot of houses, 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.560 you have to bulldoze neighborhoods. And it just so happened 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.440 that all of the neighborhoods he destroyed, uh in order 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:27.080 to make his urban highways were majority black. Um. Now, 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.479 Robert Carro argues that Moses purposefully placed roots in such 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.240 a way as to demand that it would demand the 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.039 eviction of large numbers of non white people living in 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:37.479 places he didn't want them to live, particularly neighborhoods that 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.880 bordered upper class white neighborhoods um and he would do 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:43.000 this even when the route he picked, even when like 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.800 going through these neighborhoods, was hideously inefficient. A great example 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.440 of this is the Cross Bronx Expressway, which I'm sure 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:51.359 we're all familiar if you've been to New York, like, 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.120 you know of the Cross Bronx Expressway. In order to 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.200 build the Cross Bronze Expressway, they had to eliminate the 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.600 neighborhood of East tremant Um. This one mile chunk of 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.119 highway couldn't be constructed without evicting tens of thousands of people, 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.360 most of whom were black. Under Moses's reign, these people 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.400 were forced out of their homes five years before construction 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:13.240 was completed, and the eviction was brutal. People did not 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.840 want to give up their neighborhood for this road, as 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.279 pa Rights quote now, and this is after people were 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.719 forced out, sometimes by police with weapons. Now, East Trement 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.120 looked as London might have looked after the if after 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.160 the bombs troops had fought their way through it from 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:30.320 house to house. It had the look of a jungle. Now. 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.960 Later in The Power Broker, Carol alleges that quote during 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:34.839 the seven years since the end of World War Two, 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:36.880 there had been evicted from their homes in New York 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.480 for public works, mainly Robert moseses public works some hundred 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.839 and seventy thousand persons. He suspects this number is actually 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.160 quite low. A report published more recently by the New 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.679 York City Planning Commission describes this process overseen by Moses, 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:54.400 as an enforced population displacement, unlike any previous population movement 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:57.480 in the city's history. Um, you could see this as 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.440 an act of ethnic cleansing, and it is in a 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.359 lot of way, and it's but it's done under the 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.560 auspices of what we're improving the city. This is going 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:05.200 to make it better for everybody. We have to add 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:07.760 in these roads. We're paying people for their houses even 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:09.320 if they don't want to sell them, and we have 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.800 to like force them out using police. I'm going to 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.760 quote now from a write up by Poverty Justice Solutions 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.280 that makes it clear just how fucked up the demographics 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:22.440 on this were. The evicted population was forty black or 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.840 Hispanic at a time when those demographics made up only 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.600 a little over ten percent of the city's overall population, 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.400 meaning that a large proportion of the evicted tenants faced 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:34.000 extreme discrimination and finding new housing, and little arrangement was 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:36.760 made by the city to help evicted tenants find new housing. 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.720 Carol tells us for seven years, Moses had been giving 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.000 the impression that the bulk of the low income families 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.880 displaced by his public works had been accommodated in public 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.760 housing projects. In reality, it was found that the percentage 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:51.040 of displaced families placed in public housing was pathetically small. 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:55.240 Many tenants were forced to crammond already crowded tenement buildings nearby, 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:59.400 exacerbating conditions caused by poverty and allowing exploitative landlords to 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.280 reap huge profits. In the worst cases, tenants were forced 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.600 to shelter in their old neighborhoods as they were being 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.760 torn down, surrounded by the deafening noise of demolitions, and 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.880 often without basic utilities. A member of the Women's City 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.800 Club investigating the Manhattan Town development on the Upper West 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.480 Side described people living in a scene that looked like 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.520 a cross section of bombed out Berlin. Right after World 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.120 War Two. Some of the tenements were still standing, broken 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.280 windows gaped cyclessly at the sky basement doors, yawning and 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.200 covered on the sidewalks, and surrounding them were acres strewn 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.480 with brick and mortar and rubble where wreckers and bulldozers 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:34.199 had been at work. So that's heart I mean, like 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:38.560 that's heartbreaking. And also even if those people have gone 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:42.760 into like public housing and like housing projects, that's not ideal. 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:45.920 And the fact that they that that wasn't even really 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.160 what was happening. They were being crowded into tenements and 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.680 things like that, Like I can only imagine the lasting 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.480 legacy that that is that had on those families for generations. 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:59.120 I mean, that's that's so heartbreaking. They're being made refugees 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.920 in the city they were born in um and it's 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.040 you can find pictures of this period of time and 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:07.080 they're they're pretty harrowing. They look like war zone photos. 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:08.959 It will be like, you know, you'll see pictures of 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:10.520 like three or four little black kids sitting on like 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:13.760 a pile of like rocks next to like a burnt 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.040 out shell of a building, and it's usually framed. Especially 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:18.520 when like it's brought up, it's like this is how 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.319 bad New York was before, like the city got poverty 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.679 under and got crime under control, and like all this stuff. 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:25.720 It's like no, no no, no, this is how ugly the 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.280 city was after they went to war with like several 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.880 neighborhoods in order to build a highway so that people 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.400 didn't have to get on a train because Bob Moses 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:38.320 didn't like trains. And then that's why this happens. Yeah, yes, 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.000 And then that sentiment that like false sentiment of like oh, 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:42.680 this is how the city was before they got it 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:47.280 under control, that's used to like usher in all manner 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.520 of really fucked up policies, Like it's such a fucked 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:56.360 up cycle of that really has criminalizing and targeting poor 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.680 people and black people and people of color at the 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.120 heart of it. And it's yeah, it really breaks my heart. Yeah, 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.880 it's really fucked up. Um. And when Bob Moses wasn't 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.640 busy displacing Black New Yorkers, he was deliberately routing roads 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.280 in such a way as to clog their neighborhoods, like 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:15.800 heavily black neighborhoods, with pollution and traffic. He specifically built 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:18.080 the road in a highway system of New York as 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:20.440 to offload the majority of the traffic and thus the 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.959 pollution on black neighborhoods. The Yale Law Journal notes that 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:26.719 he placed the Robert F. Kennedy Bridges exit ramp and 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.480 Harlem when a better location would have been the Upper 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.960 east Side. The only reason to locate it in Harlem 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.160 was to stop traffic from exiting and wealthy neighborhoods and 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.120 instead crowd Harlem with traffic headed for the bridge, right. 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:41.719 And I'm sure that when asked he was like, Oh, 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:43.840 the aesthetics are just better this way. It just looks 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:45.760 better this way. It looks better this way. This is 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:47.800 going to be like you know, he would They always 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.600 have some wonky reason why it's not racism, right, m hmm, 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.480 but it just keeps happening this way. Um, when he 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.680 constructed the Long Island Expressway, it would have cost Moses 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.360 four more to add mass transit in the middle of 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.800 the highway, right, to like add a mass transit line 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.120 in the middle of the highway. Four percent increase. And 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.480 we already know Bob Moses is great at getting his 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.080 budgets increased, right, right, So when he builds the Long 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:13.480 Island Expressway for four percent more, they could add mass 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.080 transit to the highway. This would have doubled the carrying 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.400 capacity of the Long Island Railroad, massive improvement and the 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.840 ability of New York's public transportation. Moses is presented with 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.040 this option um and says no. When he was designing 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:28.559 the Van Wick Expressway to the JFK Airport, he was 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:31.640 asked to reserve space for future mass transit. Basically like, 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:34.240 for an extra two million dollars, we can add space 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.240 into this development so that in the future we can 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.760 add mass transit and it will be cheap, right, um, 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:41.440 And the two million bucks would have cost is again 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.959 a peddling some given the budgets involved in the potential benefit. Uh, 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.400 he says no, And again he could have done it 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:51.040 back in like the fifties for two million dollars. Instead, 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:53.840 years later, when the city priced adding a rail link, 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.560 they were quoted three million. This is one of the concept. 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:58.200 This is part of what because of the way he 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:00.800 builds the highways and build the roads and builds the 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:02.200 parks in the city, one of the things that it 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.080 does because he hates public transit. It's part of why 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.160 it's so fucking expensive today to make any change to 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.240 New York City. And there's other reasons, right, there's permitting 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.280 and why. There's a bunch of reasons why. One of 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.640 them is that Moses specifically puts a bunch of ship 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.880 in the city that he builds without even though he 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.160 has the option without any like without space for a 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.839 public transit, because he hates it, right, And that's part 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.440 of why it's so expensive to expand anything in the city. Again, 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.280 not trying to say that's the whole thing. This is 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.720 a complicated story, but he's this is a significant factor 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.920 in it, and it's it's still very hard today. Like 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.480 it's like a lasting legacy, and it is really wild 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.040 to me. I know that you've said this a few times, 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.800 but like hating public transit while being in charge of 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:47.480 public transit and like never taking public he's in charge 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:51.640 of the parks. Well yes, but that that also means 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.320 that he gets to be in charge as they're building 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.560 these roads and these things that like connect you know, 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.959 all of this stuff. Like as he's doing these developments, 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.760 he gets to make decisions about public transit. Again, he's 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.160 not in charge of technically anything but the parks. This 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.559 is all the way he's like wielding power because of 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.760 he's he's he's not None of this is formal right. 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.480 None of this is like him issuing executive orders. This 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:15.520 is all him sitting down and talking to people are 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:17.760 like using the flex at the park depart Parks Department 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.480 has pushing his budgets like threatening people who are elected 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:23.360 with like well, if this doesn't get done, it's gonna 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.280 look bad. Like that's how he does all of this. 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.000 Um So, the New York City bridges that are built 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.239 under Robert Moses, which are the Tribe Borough, the Verrizono, 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.320 the Henry Hudson, throgs Neck, and Bronx white Stone, all 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.880 became iconic symbols of the city, and all of them 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:41.920 are built without a mass transit component. Moses repeatedly shut 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.040 down proposals to add this capacity whenever it came up, 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.280 and he also acted to hamper the subway system whenever possible. 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.240 On two occasions, the city attempted to build a second 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:55.000 Avenue subway line. Both times Moses stopped them from using 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.120 funds which he controlled, to pay for the project. He 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.560 instead diverted the money to bridges and high ways. In 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.599 nineteen fifty five, the transportation budget Moses Shepherd it was 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.679 large enough to modernize the Long Island Railroad and build 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.200 two new tunnels under the Hudson, and I'm gonna quote 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.520 again from the power broker here, it would have been 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.800 more than enough to build a long, proposed and desperately 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.600 needed Second Avenue subway, and to build a tunnel along 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.559 across the East River through which a branch of the 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.200 Second Avenue line would extend out to Queens to provide 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.000 adequate subway service there, and to build extensions of the 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.600 existing subway lines to Queens to provide service for the 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.320 hundreds of thousands of residents of Eastern Queens who were 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.960 miles away from the nearest subway, And to extend the 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.280 Nostrand Avenue subway in Brooklyn three miles along Flatbush Avenue 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:37.720 to a new modern terminal that would serve the growing 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.600 Mill basin area that possessed no rapid transit at all. 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.000 And to construct a new plaza and great elimination project 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:46.680 at the Calb Avenue that would eliminate switching delays which 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.760 caused the most severe bottleneck and train service between Brooklyn 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:54.000 and Manhattan. So he he has the budget, he has 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.840 can do all this right. This could have all been 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.920 in place decades ago in New York City, but instea 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.600 of using it for that, Moses ensures the money is 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.120 diverted to build more highways. He takes the money that 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.520 could have gone and he builds more fucking roads for 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:12.120 people's personal cars. Um. And again his justification for this 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:14.280 is always this is going to solve traffic. This is 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.440 going to help people's commute time, right right, like that, Yeah, 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:23.320 what a joke. It never does, right, raise your hand 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.360 listening at home, if you've been in a city that 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.360 expanded a highway and if it actually helped with your commute, 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.360 it never does, like if they always say that, it 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.040 never does. And the traffic in New York, as you 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.000 said Earl as you opened the show with it, is 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.760 a nightmare to this day. Yeah, it never quite seems 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:43.280 to work. Um the because again, cars are actually a 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.280 hideously inefficient way of getting large numbers of people around 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:50.880 a dense urban area. Um so yeah, And this becomes 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.840 clear eventually city officials are like, wait a minute, none 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.360 of these roads are helping with the traffic problem. The 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.400 in fact, the more roads that he builds, the worst 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:00.800 traffic gets because and also the more cars are just 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:02.680 in the city that need parking, that are like and 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.680 so parking is now more expensive and the streets are 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.640 even more crowded, and yeah, um people do start as 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.280 like this becomes clear and the fifties and stuff pushing 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.400 for him to add more public transit, but Moses, for 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.920 forty years, fights it every chance he gets. Right, He 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.200 doesn't always get his way, but he always fights whenever 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.440 he whenever it like crosses his purview. He fights to 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:27.080 limit the expansion of public transit because like, fuck people, 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.880 you know, I have a driver, right, I don't want 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:34.240 to get all I'm not gonna get on a subway. No, 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.200 I mean, the whole justification really is fun. People. He 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.240 probably has no sense of what like the ways that 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.000 expanding public transit would actually improve cities and improve livability. 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:47.840 He can't because again, he doesn't drive. So that's the 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.240 other part of this. He takes a car everywhere, but 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.160 a dude is driving him when he needs to get somewhere. 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:55.920 He has a fucking driver because he never learns how 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.560 to drive, So that also means he never has to park. 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:03.280 Like's not he is. He is. He is because of 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.440 his wealth and privilege, completely immune to the consequences of 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.520 all the decisions he's making. So he just gets to like, well, 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:11.240 when I'm on the highway, I just get to like 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.639 read my book or you know, work on paperwork or something, 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:16.359 and then off I go. And this seems like a 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:21.760 good development. No more nasty subways. You know, he sucks 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.439 pretty bad. He sucks pretty bad, Bridget. But you know 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.800 who doesn't suck pretty bad? You know who sucks good? 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:32.520 They suck incredibly these they could they could take the 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:38.520 lug nuts off of an eighteen wheelers tires, Bridget. Who's 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:43.600 that the products and services that support this podcast? Wow? 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:45.040 So if you just let me get away with that one, 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.920 she didn't stop it at all. Didn't stop it at all. 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.360 Suck him right off, pop him out. Have the energy 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.879 for this today? Well, our sponsors have the energy to 0:17:54.920 --> 0:18:05.719 do that, Sophie. Here they are. Oh, we're back, and 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:12.480 we're talking about the mouth game of our sponsors, which 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:17.040 is solid um anyway. So if he's still fine with us, Wow, 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:21.399 she just muted herself. Incredible, just great, everybody's wow, what 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:25.159 a professional podcast. Unbelievable. I can't believe you're allowing us. 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:29.800 She gave me the thumbs up that means we're good 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:33.639 to go. Okay, So obviously Bridget Moses is new Defenders 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.960 cannot deny his staggering racism or the degree to which 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.840 his policies contributed to a small, choked city based around 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.800 the least efficient form of transit conceivable. But they will argue, 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.040 while he was not perfect, he did a lot of 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:47.720 good things to and people don't note all of the 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.040 good things he did for black people, right, he did 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.400 a lot of nice stuff for black people. So really, like, 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.040 how could he be that racist if he did nice 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.359 things for black people helping us out? What do you do? 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.960 Here's Bloomberg to tell you what he did? Okay, but 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.399 Moses was complex. He gave Harlem a glorious pool and 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.200 play center. Now Jackie Robinson Park one of the best 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:10.320 public works of the New Deal era anywhere in the 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.159 United States. A crowd of twenty five thousand attended the 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.959 opening ceremony in August nineteen thirty six, sixty nine, regiment 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.399 playing when the music goes Round and Round before park's commissioner, 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:24.160 Moses was introduced to great applause by Bill bow Jangles Robinson. 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.960 So this is undeniable, right, have you been to that park? 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:34.760 Jackie Robinson's Yeah, it's a lovely Park. It's undeniable that, 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.919 like he's the mastermind of making that happen. Um. But 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.560 even while he's building things that carried real benefits to 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.520 New York black citizens, he couldn't avoid the urge to 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:45.840 be racist as all hell. And this quote from the 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.960 Power Broker, you may need to brace yourself for here, 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.680 all right, I'm strapped in Robert Moses had always displayed 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.480 a genius for adorning his creations with little details that 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:57.919 made them fit in with their setting, that made the 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:00.560 people who use them feel at home in them. There 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:02.919 was a little detail in the Playhouse comfort station of 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.639 the Harlem section of Riverside Park that has found nowhere 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.240 else in the park. The wrought iron trellises of the 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:11.720 park's other playhouse and comfort stations are decorated with designs 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.840 like curling waves. The wrought iron trellises of the Harlem 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:19.600 Playhouse comfort station are decorated with monkeys. Oh my fucking god, 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:27.640 not monkeys. I mean it's I mean, it's it's really 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:29.480 saying the quiet part a loud, if you know what 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.800 I mean. Yeah, it's it's not even yeah, it's not 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:36.160 the quiet park for Bob Moses, Like well, It says 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:38.639 a lot about New York City government culture too that 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:40.560 like they're having they have there has to have been 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:42.640 like a meeting where they're like, how should we uh 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:44.280 and what what do you what do you want on 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.760 these on these playground Treillis is in the Harlem side 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:48.760