Speaker 1: Did. He's the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys Select Elliott and now your host Dame Brugler, David
Speaker 1: Hellman and Brian brought us. Well, welcome to the Draft
Speaker 1: Show here in Indianapolis, Indiana. We're at the Convention Center
Speaker 1: here and on our final night, actually the final day
Speaker 1: as well of the combine for us here on Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com. I'm Brian brought us along with Dane
Speaker 1: Burgler from CBS Sports, longtime member of the Draft Show,
Speaker 1: David Hellman of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and a member
Speaker 1: of the Draft Show as well, Ken Garrison, executive producing tonight,
Speaker 1: and we welcome you to this uh final show. Like
Speaker 1: I said, very interesting day when you have workouts. It
Speaker 1: was a day where records were broken, and on the
Speaker 1: field records were broken. Various forty yard dashes, vertical jumps,
Speaker 1: broad jumps, you name it. Athletes were on display today
Speaker 1: and we'll get into that. We'll also get into some
Speaker 1: twitter on the twenty like we always do. I always
Speaker 1: encourage you to get your questions in at at the
Speaker 1: Draft Show. David Hellman will handle that. Kent Garrison monitors
Speaker 1: the count, the account and so that's our way of
Speaker 1: interacting with you. We have no phone as we haven't
Speaker 1: had all week, but we will do that Twitter on
Speaker 1: the twenty and then we'll get into David Hellman spent
Speaker 1: two hours today with Jerry Jones, and if you're a
Speaker 1: Cowboy fan, you definitely want to be a stick around
Speaker 1: for this. Dave got some quality time with the president,
Speaker 1: the owner, president, general manager, some of his thoughts on
Speaker 1: the draft, what the Cowboys might and might not do.
Speaker 1: Dane Burgler and I will try and make sense. Will
Speaker 1: be the jury whisper if if we can be, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. If you're gonna have to
Speaker 1: whisper on this, We're gonna talk. We got I got
Speaker 1: something good draft related from Jared. That's why I want
Speaker 1: to say, I don't know. Sometimes you have to. Jerry
Speaker 1: is one of those guys that I've always felt like
Speaker 1: as a hard time and this is gonna sound funny lying.
Speaker 1: So if you ask him a good question, he'll tell
Speaker 1: you he'll give you a good answer. So I believe
Speaker 1: Dave got some good stuff from the two hour meeting
Speaker 1: today and that will help us with this, UH to
Speaker 1: kind of put a both on things here. In Indianapolis,
Speaker 1: and guys, I do want to get into just the
Speaker 1: fact that the how these workouts went today, I personally,
Speaker 1: you know, I love when guys run fast. I love
Speaker 1: when they jump high. I love when they jump far.
Speaker 1: I love when they do shuttles. I love when they
Speaker 1: just work out. And you know, I saw some times
Speaker 1: today that we're astounding, and then I saw some guys
Speaker 1: that we've watched on tape that weren't so astounding that
Speaker 1: maybe that maybe this is what they are speed wise,
Speaker 1: you know, And and so I want to get into
Speaker 1: that with you, dame, but I want to always get
Speaker 1: your observation first about it. And you know, you could
Speaker 1: talk about Ross or the tight ends or whatever you
Speaker 1: saw the quarterbacks, whatever you like to visit with about
Speaker 1: your observation from today. Well, we have to start with
Speaker 1: Ross uh setting a new uh you know, combine record
Speaker 1: according to NFL Network the times they use with the
Speaker 1: four two two forty yard dash. You know, he was flying.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure his feet ever touched the ground. It
Speaker 1: was pretty impressive to see him go like that, especially
Speaker 1: considering he stumbled and came up lame at the end.
Speaker 1: That that hammy, So you know, we knew he was fast. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously that confirms it. Now is he going
Speaker 1: to all of a sudden rise up boards because of that? No,
Speaker 1: you know, this is not how it works. I tweeted
Speaker 1: this out, but his medicals are far more important than
Speaker 1: anything he would run in the forty yard dash. We
Speaker 1: know he's fast now obviously that that'll help him, you know,
Speaker 1: a four two times like that. But I'm still interested
Speaker 1: in the medicals. We don't know what's going on there yet.
Speaker 1: He needs shoulder surgery in March. He has the past
Speaker 1: knee issues that will be the deciding factors. You know,
Speaker 1: microfracturer didn't want to you know, I hate using that word,
Speaker 1: but it's it's scariest word exactly. So with John Ross,
Speaker 1: much more to it than the four two, And then
Speaker 1: plenty of the receivers stood out. I think Chris Godwin
Speaker 1: from Penn State good film or he has a good film.
Speaker 1: You know, we came in with an already favorable opinion
Speaker 1: of him, but his workouts were phenomenal. I didn't expect
Speaker 1: those numbers. I didn't expect that four four two in
Speaker 1: the forty yard dash. He was the only receiver two
Speaker 1: hundred pounds or more to hit such a hit that number.
Speaker 1: There's a couple of receivers that were faster than him,
Speaker 1: Ron Ross, Curtis, Samuel, few others, but Godwin was the
Speaker 1: only one two hundred pounds or more to hit that
Speaker 1: four four two mark or lower. So I'm pressed by him.
Speaker 1: He also had good jumps thirty six inches in the
Speaker 1: vert ten six and abroad four oz in a short shuttle,
Speaker 1: which is an outstanding number for him, so eager to see.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen his three cone yet, but I'm sure
Speaker 1: it was. If it matches those numbers, heck of a
Speaker 1: day for Godwin. Zay Jones, kind of continuing on that
Speaker 1: momentum from the Senior Bowl, another one who you know,
Speaker 1: he's a good test case because when you watch him
Speaker 1: on film, he rarely goes vertically one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: eight catches this year, only four when thirty five yards
Speaker 1: or more. But sometimes the product of the offense. You
Speaker 1: can only show teams on film which you were asked
Speaker 1: to do, what plays were called, what routes you're ass
Speaker 1: to be run. And so for Zay Jones, I think
Speaker 1: he you know, we don't see it on tape, but
Speaker 1: he came here and showed he is a phenomenal athlete,
Speaker 1: and that showed with his workout numbers. Thirty six and
Speaker 1: a half inch vert four four five forty yard dash
Speaker 1: over eleven feet and abroad if you get over eleven
Speaker 1: feet in the broad jump, it's a phenomenal blows of numbers.
Speaker 1: So Zay Jones, I thought, only helped himself from the
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl, and it's gonna make people go back and
Speaker 1: look at that film a little bit. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a player I initially thought, just based on the film, third,
Speaker 1: fourth round, after the Senior Bowl, after the combine. I mean,
Speaker 1: you have to believe that he cemented himself somewhere in
Speaker 1: the top seventy five range. Just really impressive what he's
Speaker 1: done just from January up until now. Perfect example of
Speaker 1: why the draft process is so important for a guy
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, and we'd you know, I know, on
Speaker 1: my board, and we'd had this discussion about Godwin before,
Speaker 1: you know, and I felt like that he was really
Speaker 1: a solid second round player, you know, and that mix
Speaker 1: of guys and you know, Dave, we had some guys
Speaker 1: though that that you know, that didn't really run very well,
Speaker 1: that you know, that might be that second round consideration.
Speaker 1: You know we talk about you know with cup you know,
Speaker 1: and what we saw with him and he yeah, I
Speaker 1: saw that he ran poorly, But like does that bother you?
Speaker 1: Well care? Well? No, I mean it really, I mean
Speaker 1: I know the tape I expected him to be and
Speaker 1: Dan correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I
Speaker 1: expected him to be better than a four six two
Speaker 1: man that maybe you maybe you didn't, you know, I
Speaker 1: was thinking time to work for the combine, get ready
Speaker 1: be be maybe a four or five maybe what maybe
Speaker 1: what Chris Godwin was a four or five three guy
Speaker 1: from what I saw, you know, from the times, I
Speaker 1: wasn't expecting to four six two. Does that influence me? No,
Speaker 1: because you can watch the tape. But I guess what
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say is I think some people in
Speaker 1: some draft rooms now are gonna go, well, he's a
Speaker 1: four to six player, but he's a better player than that.
Speaker 1: That's what I That's what do people? You think people
Speaker 1: will And I've been in draft rooms where all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, is it because he's a white guy, Like, well, no, no,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's I don't think it's hey, No, no,
Speaker 1: straight up you're not lying. I don't. I don't. I'm
Speaker 1: not like and I laughed in a way because you're right.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, you'll say, oh, he's just a white guy. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: And that's probably be the wrong way to think about it.
Speaker 1: But I will say this though, I didn't expect to
Speaker 1: force And maybe when he goes to Eastern Washington, maybe
Speaker 1: people roll up that way the time will be better.
Speaker 1: But I didn't expect that from him all the way
Speaker 1: back in January. And I'm a giant, I'm a Cooper
Speaker 1: Cup fanboy, right, I love he's awesome. His tape is awesome.
Speaker 1: He was great at the Senior Bowl. All the way
Speaker 1: back in January. I heard the player comparison of Jarvis Landry,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I think it's I think it stacks up perfectly. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't expec I never thought he would be a burner.
Speaker 1: That's not his game, right, And I think it confirms
Speaker 1: what most people thought that he's not truly an outside guy.
Speaker 1: You want him to slot. That's where he's best, where
Speaker 1: you know he doesn't have to go in a straight line.
Speaker 1: He can manipulate routes, uh leverage defenders and create spacing
Speaker 1: on his own. But you know what that forty yard
Speaker 1: dash doesn't show is he has vacuum hands. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that's something I think so at four six two, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not very surprised by it. He's not over.
Speaker 1: It's funny. You're funny. You say that because I asked
Speaker 1: you that, and you're kind of you kind of both
Speaker 1: palms up and be like, hey, that's what he is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Joey Boss, that's true. How about Isaiah Ford though? Four
Speaker 1: six one? Yeah? See, was that a little bit different
Speaker 1: for you though? Because now we're talking about like, to me,
Speaker 1: Godwin Hansen, cup Ford, Westbrook? Did he Westbrook? He didn't
Speaker 1: even work at at all. They're basically fifteen receivers going
Speaker 1: in the second round. That's how it feels because there's
Speaker 1: so many guys and I'm trying to separate him. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do. I was gonna say that
Speaker 1: when you led this off as yesterday we talked about
Speaker 1: the log jam, like, did anything get cleared up for
Speaker 1: you today? I see ran really well? Yeah, Darbo, yeah,
Speaker 1: Darbou Ran Well. I was hoping that Smith Schuster from
Speaker 1: USC You know me, I'm a cheerleader boy for USC
Speaker 1: he did well, yeah, he don't know, he did. I
Speaker 1: mean he did for that. I mean, you know, even
Speaker 1: Mike Mayock is like, oh no, that's a good time,
Speaker 1: like five, you know, four or five four, you know
Speaker 1: it was. It was a good time for him thoughsolutely.
Speaker 1: But I was kind of hoping maybe I was, like
Speaker 1: I said, I was cheerleading for a couple of guys.
Speaker 1: I was hopeful that the cup would you know, would
Speaker 1: have run if he had ran a four to five four,
Speaker 1: I think I would have felt better about that. But
Speaker 1: you know, I guess it is what it is, and
Speaker 1: that in that regard, though, how about the guys like
Speaker 1: you know, with Henderson, you know, Taylor, some of those guys,
Speaker 1: how did that? How did that shake out for you
Speaker 1: as well? All right? Thought Henderson had an excellent day
Speaker 1: for a player who you know is a solid two
Speaker 1: hundred pounds with four four six thirty six in verse
Speaker 1: ten eleven abroad, Um, I thought he confirmed what we
Speaker 1: already knew that he's a very good athlete, a guy
Speaker 1: who uh cannot only go deep, but on the underneath
Speaker 1: stuff he can be a threat after the catch, catches
Speaker 1: the ball, Welton Stride. He's another guy that's in that
Speaker 1: that second round mix, and that that's really gonna make
Speaker 1: it tough when we try to differentiate these receivers. It
Speaker 1: comes down to what kind of receiver do you want?
Speaker 1: And that's you know you're looking for a specific type
Speaker 1: of receiver. That's when you can try and separate him.
Speaker 1: But I think Carl Carlos Henderson confirmed what we knew.
Speaker 1: The same thing with Taywan Taylor. Uh it confirmed we
Speaker 1: already knew he's you know, they belonged somewhere on that
Speaker 1: Day two mix. Come about Gibson, we'd kind of talked
Speaker 1: about Gibson from West Virginia. Right, There's a guy when
Speaker 1: you watch him play so many vertical routes, he throws
Speaker 1: a four or five zero at you. I mean, is that?
Speaker 1: I mean maybe we were expecting a little bit. I know,
Speaker 1: I was expecting a little bit more there come out
Speaker 1: and claim that you're gonna win the island. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah in four or five flats a pretty
Speaker 1: damn good time. But not no for a guy that
Speaker 1: every time you watch him on tape, it's a vertical
Speaker 1: not shot down the field. Yeah, when you're claiming that
Speaker 1: you're gonna set an all time record for the forty
Speaker 1: that you can't view that as anything but this I
Speaker 1: think a big part of it is just big twelve defenses.
Speaker 1: That's That's one of those things that is uh it
Speaker 1: really kind of it can be deceiving. I mean we
Speaker 1: talk about you know, we'll talk about Adam Sheheen here
Speaker 1: in a little bit different two. You know, like how
Speaker 1: does that well, big twelve defenses, That's that's part of it.
Speaker 1: How does that you know, match up with you know,
Speaker 1: and that was a big question last year with guy
Speaker 1: like Corey Coleman from Baylor facing big twelve defenses. Same
Speaker 1: thing with Gibson, where you know, if he's just a
Speaker 1: four or five athlete at four or five, oh so,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, high four fours love four fives.
Speaker 1: Chad Hanson for me, I thought he helped himself, I mean,
Speaker 1: not helped himself with confirmed what we thought four or
Speaker 1: five or three and the forty yard dash. But you
Speaker 1: kind of have him as a guy that might be
Speaker 1: a one two on your board there because yeah war
Speaker 1: one right, because he didn't. I think he's more of
Speaker 1: a somewhere in the top fifty Okay. So you know,
Speaker 1: if I'm at the end of the first round and
Speaker 1: I really want a receiver, he's the guy I'm considering.
Speaker 1: But I think he's more of an early day two guy.
Speaker 1: I think you saw in his drills just how he
Speaker 1: can manipulate his athleticism very he controls his gears so well. Sure,
Speaker 1: you know, he might not be that explosive guy who
Speaker 1: just gonna, you know, take the top off a defense.
Speaker 1: But the way he can control his gears and mix
Speaker 1: in different things, that's why he makes him such a
Speaker 1: elusive route runner, keeps defenders off balance. So I thought
Speaker 1: chied Hanson helped himself with a solid time with the
Speaker 1: four or five. Three. How about the quarterbacks that through today? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I had a chance to, uh, and you were
Speaker 1: in on the drills. You got to sit in on
Speaker 1: the first drill the first talked. I talked to a
Speaker 1: scout buddy, and I asked him, Okay, which which one
Speaker 1: of these quarterbacks was the best? You know, I saw
Speaker 1: these quarters, which one did the best? He said it
Speaker 1: was Deshaun Watson just in terms of armed talent, uh,
Speaker 1: putting the ball where it needed to be. He said
Speaker 1: it was pretty clearly Deshaun Watson, who had the best
Speaker 1: day to day just throwing the ball, uh and something
Speaker 1: else that you saw with him was kind of what
Speaker 1: you would expect, I guess from a guy who you know,
Speaker 1: based on what we know leaderships kind of quality. Shaun
Speaker 1: Watson was the guy, you know Ralph hitting the guys
Speaker 1: on the butt, you know, telling guys O get this,
Speaker 1: this and this. I mean, it's just that's an innate,
Speaker 1: you know, skill that he has that really carried over today.
Speaker 1: And you better believe scouts are watching that. I mean,
Speaker 1: the DAK comparisons are just too stupidly obvious not to make.
Speaker 1: And I honestly, and you know, I don't know where
Speaker 1: he goes, but that's that's got a factor into it.
Speaker 1: Just that that it factor, that leadership factored all of
Speaker 1: that stuff. And you know, whatever his talent level is,
Speaker 1: I bet he'll get drafted above it, whether that means
Speaker 1: he's back into the first round, he'll get drafted higher
Speaker 1: than that, or if he's a third round guy, he'll
Speaker 1: he will be pushed up because his intangibles or that
Speaker 1: you think people will look at him better than Trubisky.
Speaker 1: It's possible. Sure, we won't have a consensus, there will
Speaker 1: not be a concessor will there be at least a
Speaker 1: few teams that think that. I think that's very possible.
Speaker 1: I think Mitch Trubisky had a good day too. He was, yeah,
Speaker 1: polished talking to this. He said that Trubisky was number
Speaker 1: two in that pecking order. Um, and so you know
Speaker 1: it was it maybe as impressive, as impressive as Watson,
Speaker 1: but he still had a solid day. And you know,
Speaker 1: we talked about how these quarterbacks it's just there's no
Speaker 1: way to know, but the intangible factor is so huge.
Speaker 1: And you talked to Aaron Rodgers. You talk some of
Speaker 1: these quarterbacks about what makes a good quarterback, they'll explain
Speaker 1: to you that majority of it, you know, seventy five
Speaker 1: percent is between the years. It's hard, it's passion, it's
Speaker 1: you know, those things that you can't really gauge by
Speaker 1: a forty yard dash or just watching film. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's really that those innate qualities that not everyone has.
Speaker 1: And Shaun Watson has it. And if you're picking i mean,
Speaker 1: you know that Andrew lux of the world and the
Speaker 1: Cam Newton's like the super Freaks is one thing, right,
Speaker 1: But if you're picking between two guys you don't feel
Speaker 1: great about or don't know about. Give me the three
Speaker 1: or four year starter award winner, national title winner who
Speaker 1: carried a program on his shoulders for several years over
Speaker 1: the one year guy. Every day. I thought a guy
Speaker 1: that looked really comfortable. By the way An e Lets
Speaker 1: gets your plot, I thought a guy looked comfortable. Date
Speaker 1: was and you've talked about him as a possible day
Speaker 1: three guy maybe gets into the day two area. Was
Speaker 1: Nate Peterman from Pittsburgh. He's the one guy that looked
Speaker 1: comfortable dropping. Everybody else is such a shotgun scheme specific
Speaker 1: type quarterback. He looked like the one guy that when
Speaker 1: they and that's what the combine is, you started the line,
Speaker 1: you drop and you throw and and it's not shotgun.
Speaker 1: They don't pitch the ball and you stand there and
Speaker 1: make throws. He was the one guy to me that
Speaker 1: because he does that at pit did he look the
Speaker 1: most comfortable right throwing the football. And that's what makes
Speaker 1: I think him an easy cell is because he is
Speaker 1: so well versed in a pro style scheme. There's not
Speaker 1: a big projection there, and I still have questions about
Speaker 1: his downfield accuracy as a decision making. But I think
Speaker 1: you're you're absolutely right about just how comfortable he is
Speaker 1: in his three five seven step drops, you know, load fire,
Speaker 1: he can do all that, right. But what I was
Speaker 1: gonna say before is Jonathan Allen came through today talking.
Speaker 1: He said to Shaun Watson, easily is the best competitor
Speaker 1: he's ever faced. Yeah, now, I mean this, Jonathan Allen
Speaker 1: obviously saw him twice in two epic games, right, you know,
Speaker 1: to decide the national title. But uh, you know he
Speaker 1: plays in the SEC. He's seen plenty of talent. He
Speaker 1: played you know, he sing Dak Prescott, right, he singled
Speaker 1: out the Shawn Watson said, it's the best competitor he's
Speaker 1: ever faced. Kind of talk about the tight ends here
Speaker 1: before we go to our first break though. You know,
Speaker 1: we we we had a group that just was outstanding
Speaker 1: when it came to just you know, the flying part
Speaker 1: of these Uh. You know, when you got a guy
Speaker 1: like O. J. Howard, you know who is uh you know,
Speaker 1: two hundred and six almost sixty six, two hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty one pounds and runs a four five one. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't expect him to run four five one. But man,
Speaker 1: what a heck of a what a heck of a
Speaker 1: move by him pulling that off today. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think the we had two tight ends come in
Speaker 1: over eleven feet on the broad which is just it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: There's only been so many people at the Combine and
Speaker 1: combine history that I've gotten over eleven feet in the
Speaker 1: broad jump. We had two tight ends do it, and
Speaker 1: David and Joku and Bucky Hodges. I mean Bucky Hodges
Speaker 1: to me, he's more of a receiver. But regardless, boy,
Speaker 1: Bucky Hodges look bad getting in the stance today when
Speaker 1: he had to play in What do I do? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What do I? How do I put my feet? You know,
Speaker 1: the coach is trying to explain the bag drill to
Speaker 1: him and he's in the stance in Mike Mayock even goes,
Speaker 1: he goes, oh my gosh, what's he doing? You know
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. NFL coaches are just cussing. Well,
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, though, there's guys, there's these these guys
Speaker 1: who are like these hybrid players. Dane calls it that
Speaker 1: talk site. He's absolutely right. The Evan Ingrams of the world.
Speaker 1: You know a guy that's six three two and thirty
Speaker 1: four pounds. That runs four four three. Surprise with Hodges
Speaker 1: though he came out of two fifty seven. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: doesn't look two fifty seven, but you know, hidden the
Speaker 1: record coming in to U today for tight end and
Speaker 1: the broad jump was ten eleven and we had two
Speaker 1: get over eleven feet so and Joker would have had
Speaker 1: the record if not for Hodges who had it. But no,
Speaker 1: you're right with with Evan Ingram a four four two
Speaker 1: in the forty yard dash officially, Yeah, that's just ridiculous.
Speaker 1: And that's again why I think he's a receiver. That's
Speaker 1: where he does his best work. But plenty you mentioned
Speaker 1: Oj Howard, uh, plenty of tight ends had good days today,
Speaker 1: Adam shaheen for a guy that's two hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: eight pounds seven nine if you look good in the
Speaker 1: rounds too, exactly kept the straight line, caught all that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't think this is a new This
Speaker 1: is not news to us or anybody that follows the draft,
Speaker 1: I think, but we can let go of the notion
Speaker 1: that Oj Howard's it there at twenty eight. I feel
Speaker 1: like probably, yeah, yeah, so I think so too. I
Speaker 1: think that you know, now the question became, okay, could
Speaker 1: there be three tight ends that go in the first
Speaker 1: round that that that would be unheard of? No, I
Speaker 1: don't know. If I don't know if Ashley gets into
Speaker 1: the first round, I don't know that. I think that
Speaker 1: he can get top fifty. He could get top fifty easy.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a question about that now. But
Speaker 1: in twenty five years of coming to this place, this
Speaker 1: is the fastest group of tight ends I've ever seen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, now, the problem with this group is it
Speaker 1: was a pillow fight out there today in the backs. Okay,
Speaker 1: when they're hitting the backs, not they're not like true
Speaker 1: tight ends. Well, you know what, though, not the ones
Speaker 1: we're talking. Hey, let me tell you what. There's some
Speaker 1: of these guys. Jake Butt recognizes what Jason Witten is
Speaker 1: a traditional tied end, and I'm saying that though there's
Speaker 1: something to having a guy that could be a traditional
Speaker 1: tight end. Well, I mean, yeah, and these are mismatched players.
Speaker 1: I get it. But you know what, if you're asking
Speaker 1: these guys to block, they're getting away blockers at bit.
Speaker 1: But I was a little disappointed. I didn't see anymore
Speaker 1: power and snap. You know, I was looking for that
Speaker 1: a little bit. When you got athletes, you can kind
Speaker 1: of get that at least make some noise like you're blocking,
Speaker 1: right those guys it was it was. It was a
Speaker 1: pillow fighting then, and I think that was that to me.
Speaker 1: I just want to see some hip roll, you know
Speaker 1: when they do those drills. I can see you run
Speaker 1: routes all day. I could see it catch the football.
Speaker 1: I could be real impressed with that. But give me
Speaker 1: some snap, some hip roll, and some driving off the
Speaker 1: ball to kind of make me feel like you can
Speaker 1: do it. Seventeen. That's what the colleges are. You're right,
Speaker 1: You're right. Okay, we're gonna take our first break when
Speaker 1: we come back, we're gonna do a little Twitter on
Speaker 1: the twenty. Stay tuned. I'm em into data from AT
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Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com drafty. We are back here to trash show.
Speaker 1: I got stunned right there they're doing They're in combined
Speaker 1: talk and they're like, come listen to Bill Polly, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, what Bill Polly Later? Yeah, Bill Poliant's gonna
Speaker 1: hang out and why Trell Owens and Randy Moss should
Speaker 1: not be in the Hall of Fame, Yeah exactly. Rappaport
Speaker 1: is like right over there, if you want to go
Speaker 1: talk to him. That's okay. We're good with him. We're
Speaker 1: all right. He's trying to make trades. You're gonna you're
Speaker 1: gonna debuck one of his trades today. I have a
Speaker 1: feeling when we get to kill talk about that. Dave.
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Speaker 1: this whole process here while we're in Indianapolis. And we
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Speaker 1: in Indianapolis, heading back to a Dallas tomorrow. But uh,
Speaker 1: good buddies at Tommy John. I did love Tommy John. Actually,
Speaker 1: somebody just tweeted me and said, you need to pay
Speaker 1: those or you need to have those no bunch underwear
Speaker 1: folks pay you to stay in India another couple of
Speaker 1: days and see these dbs. Yeah I agree. Yeah, Well
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Speaker 1: paying my hotel wheel. Yeah that is true. Well, we
Speaker 1: thank them Caliber Collision and Tommy John, both of them.
Speaker 1: All Right, Dave, it is time for a little Twitter
Speaker 1: on the twenty. Thank you very much. It's all yours. Okay.
Speaker 1: It's a good segue because we were just talking about
Speaker 1: tight ends and we did not talk about this guy.
Speaker 1: Jonah wants to know what can you tell me about
Speaker 1: Florida International's John who Smith and i'll as usual, you
Speaker 1: know a range if you will. Yeah, he was in
Speaker 1: the four six range today in his forties, which is
Speaker 1: a good number for him. Not the biggest guy what
Speaker 1: he came in at six two and a half, two
Speaker 1: hundred forty eight pounds him. You know, he's a little
Speaker 1: undersize what you want a traditional tight end, but he's
Speaker 1: that move uh you know style tight end, that joker
Speaker 1: that you can you know motion, you can kick him outside, uh,
Speaker 1: put him on the wing, do a couple of different
Speaker 1: things with him, more of that h back style. I
Speaker 1: think he's a very natural receiver. And you saw that
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl, Yeah, and I shared it. I thought you
Speaker 1: saw it here. Uh, John Hu Smith to me somewhere
Speaker 1: in that probably probably fourth round my game A three four.
Speaker 1: But I like him a little bit more than I
Speaker 1: think where he'll end up. But I think somewhere early
Speaker 1: day three as world Goo, I think I liked I
Speaker 1: think I like Gerald Edward Gerald Everett a little bit
Speaker 1: better than him, you know, I agree, Yeah, I saw
Speaker 1: a little bit more of him from South Alabama. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that kind of the similar styles of guys you talked
Speaker 1: about the joker guy. You know, here's the guy that
Speaker 1: Everett that came in sixty three, two thirty nine more
Speaker 1: than twelves in the Senior Bowl. But you watch his
Speaker 1: tape at South On Now there's a guy that gets
Speaker 1: in some blocks and will snap a little bit. You
Speaker 1: can see the hip role in him, try and get
Speaker 1: guys to the outside though. So I was a little
Speaker 1: bit you know, both guys actually did twenty two times
Speaker 1: on the bench on identical four six two exactly, so
Speaker 1: similar player. But I think I would like the South
Speaker 1: Alabama kid, uh Everett a little bit more than I
Speaker 1: would uh than Smith. I agree. I have a third
Speaker 1: on Everett and a three four on Smith. There you go,
Speaker 1: So you're telling me, I like I should feel good
Speaker 1: about the tight end pool beyond like the first round.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I think you should. Absolutely, And that's
Speaker 1: the biggest reason why you know we said this before,
Speaker 1: but why maybe an age OJ Howard could be there
Speaker 1: just because you kind of passed on them because you
Speaker 1: want to get that pass rusher early on. You want
Speaker 1: to get that you know, the corner the receiver right.
Speaker 1: So the top twenty five is filled with those positions
Speaker 1: and a guy like GoJ Howard or David and Joku
Speaker 1: could slip a little bit and could be an option.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, Alfredo wants to know DBS do their work
Speaker 1: out tomorrow Sunday. What is the most important drill to
Speaker 1: watch for DBS will be on Monday. Oh, I'm sorry, sorry,
Speaker 1: my bad, I got confused, but yeah, I mean well,
Speaker 1: I mean the forty yard dash obviously, I mean that
Speaker 1: straight line speed. A lot of times you see uh corners, man,
Speaker 1: you want to see that makeup speed as well. Uh
Speaker 1: you know at playing the cornerback position, it's inevitable you're
Speaker 1: gonna get beat and you're gonna have to make up
Speaker 1: a few steps. So I want to see him there,
Speaker 1: you know, three cones obviously a big one vertical like
Speaker 1: that an actual explosion. But the positional drills where I like.
Speaker 1: I love watching the positional drills with the corners and
Speaker 1: the DBS that back pedal, the backpedal, turn open and go.
Speaker 1: Can you stay on a vertical plane? Drill right, can
Speaker 1: you stay low in your pedal, use your hips, stay
Speaker 1: on that vertical plane and not lose speed, not have
Speaker 1: to you know, gather yourself gear down, you maintain that momentum.
Speaker 1: That's something that a lot of colleges they don't ask
Speaker 1: you to press and play with the natural transition that
Speaker 1: a lot of NFL teams are gonna ask you to do.
Speaker 1: So that drill, to me, exposed a lot of guys
Speaker 1: who have struggles. Well, I'll tell you what, you are
Speaker 1: absolutely right. That was my favorite one. If you go
Speaker 1: away from the TV though, and are you tape this
Speaker 1: and you want to come back and watch watch the
Speaker 1: drill again. The Raiders are the ones that got this
Speaker 1: drill in. Actually Al Davis, you know, he said, listen,
Speaker 1: let's let these guys pedal. Let's let them turn and
Speaker 1: then burst and they do it to the right, and
Speaker 1: they do it to the left, and they don't they
Speaker 1: don't know, and they don't Yeah, defender or the coach
Speaker 1: will yeah direct them why they're gonna go. Yeah. It
Speaker 1: really really helps you that way though. I mean when
Speaker 1: you could pedal, turn and burst that I love those drills.
Speaker 1: And when they do the ball skilled drills, right, dbs
Speaker 1: where Yeah, it's like soccer. It's like soccer boys, some
Speaker 1: goats out there, fire a fastball at them, right, you know,
Speaker 1: you see which dbs have the soft hands, stone hands. Right. Uh,
Speaker 1: that's a fun drill to watch. It absolutely kind of
Speaker 1: covered it all anyway. Yeah, dbs are fun to watch.
Speaker 1: That's my personal that's my person. Yeah, the receivers and
Speaker 1: quarterbacks with two hours and forty five minutes today, as
Speaker 1: I mean that is a marathon's kind of bogged down. Well,
Speaker 1: there's some things they probably need to take out of
Speaker 1: that a little bit, but I think the dbs go
Speaker 1: two hours and forty five minutes. I think every drill
Speaker 1: you get something out of it. Though. Yeah, it's important position,
Speaker 1: as we all know. I know we touched on him
Speaker 1: in the first segment, but Josh would just like you
Speaker 1: ought to talk a little bit more about Evan Ingram. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I list him as a receiver, and I
Speaker 1: think because that's how he's used it will miss. I
Speaker 1: don't see an inline guy, regardless of what you call him. Receiver,
Speaker 1: a tight end, very athletic and obviously he showed that
Speaker 1: today with four four two with the way he can
Speaker 1: stretch the seam the way you know, he can manipulate
Speaker 1: space over the middle of the field. I think he
Speaker 1: has reliable hands. But again, just not a guy you
Speaker 1: want in line, you know, blocking, or you can use
Speaker 1: him maybe on the wing, use him in different scenarios
Speaker 1: where he'll need to just sustain for a moment or
Speaker 1: two just to slow down defenders. But he's not an
Speaker 1: overpowering guy in that sense. But he's an athlete. Let
Speaker 1: him go run routes, let him be a weapon on
Speaker 1: your offense that your quarterback and throw too. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think this guy is a really nice job of finding space. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, that's his ability. He has an awareness of
Speaker 1: where he needs to be in a round. I think
Speaker 1: Dane has got him cold as far as the where
Speaker 1: he where he is, where around you give him. I
Speaker 1: put him in the third is what I did. I
Speaker 1: love him more as as the receiving traits than I
Speaker 1: do the blocking traits. Let me ask you this real quick.
Speaker 1: Sorry to cut you off, but so you're drafting this
Speaker 1: guy in the third round to play receiver though basically
Speaker 1: to play to play doing with him, I think you're
Speaker 1: you're draft him to be that hybrid player that I mean,
Speaker 1: he's not an in line player. He plays. When you
Speaker 1: watch him, he rarely puts his hand on the ground.
Speaker 1: He plays as a wing. He plays detached. He's always
Speaker 1: going up the field, and when he does block, he's
Speaker 1: a he lacks sustain My my, my concern here is
Speaker 1: that we we rode the Gavin Escobar ride and it
Speaker 1: didn't work out. And based on the like what the
Speaker 1: Cowboys want to do. Yeah, I mean, if he can
Speaker 1: play a receiver outside and be good, fine, but I
Speaker 1: don't I don't need because that's not how they want
Speaker 1: to use their Jeff Swain can catch the football, can
Speaker 1: also block. That's my point. I have a one two
Speaker 1: on ingram Um because I think he's a big slot receiver.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's you know, a tight end. I
Speaker 1: don't think he should be used as one. I think
Speaker 1: you put him in the slot kind of like how
Speaker 1: the Saints used Marquis Colston. You know that big slot guy,
Speaker 1: and let him you know, he not only can he
Speaker 1: work the middle of the field, but he can run
Speaker 1: different routes. And I don't know. To me, I have
Speaker 1: that value in the top forty. Now you have to
Speaker 1: buy into that I don't think it worked for the Cowboy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's you know, right, being as I am super intriguing player,
Speaker 1: not for this team, it's not. In my opinion, I
Speaker 1: agree with that. Um, somebody wanted to know what did
Speaker 1: y'all think about Pat Pat Mahomes today? What about that
Speaker 1: Pat Mahomes? You see the arm talent, it's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's clear the guy can spray it all over the field. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think we expected to see this
Speaker 1: monumental transition where all of a sudden he's looked smooth
Speaker 1: in his back pet or in his h in his footwork,
Speaker 1: and you know the mechanics and obviously has a long
Speaker 1: way to go. We saw that today. But you know
Speaker 1: the ball, the way it comes off his hand, it's special. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it really is. The Thing that I noticed about Pat
Speaker 1: Mahomes throwing the football today is if he had three
Speaker 1: shots to throw the ball, and maybe one on the
Speaker 1: out was a little behind, and maybe the next one
Speaker 1: was a little behind, the third one was where it
Speaker 1: needed to be. It's kind of like he said, throw, oh,
Speaker 1: you clap the hands, throw, clap the hands, and then
Speaker 1: it was throw Okay, that's where it needs to be. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: Mahomes is gonna need a lot of work. I mean
Speaker 1: he really really is. The dance right again, The armed
Speaker 1: talent's there. The ability to throw from different platforms, that's
Speaker 1: something that everybody's gonna talk about. There's gonna be comparisons
Speaker 1: to him about how he drops down, how he can
Speaker 1: throw over the top, how he can throw to his left,
Speaker 1: how he can throw to his right. I mean, these
Speaker 1: are all things we saw Dak Prescott too. I mean
Speaker 1: we saw all his his ability to run full to
Speaker 1: his left and fire the ball outside or open up
Speaker 1: his up his hips and throw the ball down the field.
Speaker 1: These are things that Pat Mahomes can do. And we'll
Speaker 1: hear more about that as the workouts and we'll see,
Speaker 1: we'll see how things shake out for him. Maybe there'll
Speaker 1: be some video of him, and you know, we get
Speaker 1: this at the Cowboys where they work out with him,
Speaker 1: and maybe you'll see a different quarterback. Maybe you won't
Speaker 1: see the gun slinger loose ability. You'll see more of
Speaker 1: a tightened up throwing motion and more of a step.
Speaker 1: You know. That's the thing that happened to Kaiser, I
Speaker 1: think a little bit to I think Mike Mayock and
Speaker 1: even a car the former quarterback brought this up. Kaiser
Speaker 1: never stepped in the same spot when he was throwing
Speaker 1: the ball. Everything was step here, and then it was
Speaker 1: step here, and they never He never hit that spot,
Speaker 1: and I think you saw it with a lot of
Speaker 1: quarterbacks to that. And then the accuracy suffers because foot
Speaker 1: hits here wide, foots hits in the middle, foot hits here,
Speaker 1: So you don't see that. These guys have got to
Speaker 1: tighten up some of their throwing motions, though they really
Speaker 1: do it. I was a little surprised at Mahomes. I
Speaker 1: thought he'd run a little better in four eight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't think he was a four three guy, but
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, he could maybe for six at least,
Speaker 1: maybe get like Josh Dobbs, right, Josh Dobbs in the
Speaker 1: four six, four six, five rounds. I thought Dobbs is
Speaker 1: impressive athletically, he's he's impressive like with everything except you know,
Speaker 1: throwing the bottle. The right team which is you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's intelligent, he's a leader, he's a
Speaker 1: mobile guy, he's big, strong arm. I just don't I
Speaker 1: don't know, but something I bet you some team buys
Speaker 1: into him, and we'll want to develop that and he'll
Speaker 1: go a lot higher than you know, and Kobe Brissette
Speaker 1: through the ball better than this guy. Oh yeah, so
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, but an athlete that kind of you know,
Speaker 1: that kind of guy, right, yeah, its it too far
Speaker 1: a comparison. Well, Brissette went what third round? Yeah, so
Speaker 1: and that's too I think, right, I think this is
Speaker 1: a guy you think maybe, but somebody took it. The
Speaker 1: Patriots took a chance on set. I think Dobbs is
Speaker 1: a guy fourth fifth round. Maybe a team will pull
Speaker 1: the trigger. I don't know. I have him as a PFA.
Speaker 1: I don't think he see but I saw it with
Speaker 1: Dobbs today when the ball when they were throwing them,
Speaker 1: when they're running the routes, like especially the routes where
Speaker 1: the receiver had to like make the adjustment over the
Speaker 1: head adjustment. He was the one guy that was throwing
Speaker 1: the ball the best of the guys throwing the ball
Speaker 1: down the field. And that might help him. Yeah. Maybe
Speaker 1: someone says, well, maybe this is when we work on
Speaker 1: the underneath stuff, and ask a Tennessee man, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just no, no, you're right, you're right, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm just saying he has pressure in his face. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the ball just it's got a mind of
Speaker 1: its own. Kaya Kaya perfect example. Sure. I mean he
Speaker 1: looked great throwing the ball around today when no one's
Speaker 1: hitting him exactly. He set up for something like this,
Speaker 1: we're in shorts and in seven on seven. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: can do it. But when the bullets flying, and that's
Speaker 1: not something he's comfortable with, and that's when the accuracy suffered,
Speaker 1: mechanics suffer. Um and yeah, ka Kaya is a good
Speaker 1: example of a player who looks good in this type
Speaker 1: of setting, but when you watch the tape and you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's all it's all over the place, right, Pat mahomes
Speaker 1: first round pick. That's how I feel. I don't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't disagree. I just it's more that would be
Speaker 1: a you know, that would be a gutsy call. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know as a general manager that
Speaker 1: I can make that call now. I couldn't know. He's
Speaker 1: not a first round pick for me, but I do
Speaker 1: think there will be one that recognize the talent. Casey
Speaker 1: late second round and John Dorsey's a bold guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's Brian's like, Noah, he's gonna take that
Speaker 1: runner from Oklahoma that we're gonna go see on Wednesday, probably,
Speaker 1: but he knows he can get him in the third round.
Speaker 1: Now he might take him in the first. I like
Speaker 1: to award outside the box. Outside the box thinking I'm
Speaker 1: just ignoring that. Uh, Bobby friend of the show, Bobby
Speaker 1: belt Um, he says, given log jam at receiver, obviously, uh.
Speaker 1: And given the impressive performances from John Ross and Chad Hanson,
Speaker 1: is Corey Davis at twenty eight becoming a possibility? I
Speaker 1: don't think I really see this, but I don't know
Speaker 1: your way. It's funny because we were talking about this earlier.
Speaker 1: But whenever they show a Corey Dave his highlight, it's
Speaker 1: against Buffalo or it's against you know, I just compent
Speaker 1: to that Wisconsin Cotton Bowl highlight. Is that what you're saying? Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: he had a few highlights from that game, sure, but predominantly,
Speaker 1: you know, his career was built playing Matt competition, and
Speaker 1: that's just it's not his fault. That's who recruited him,
Speaker 1: that's where he went to play, and that's where he dominated.
Speaker 1: And so it's a shame. We can't couldn't see him here.
Speaker 1: We won't see him on his pro day. He plans
Speaker 1: to have a workout prior to the draft, but we're
Speaker 1: talking not until mid April. We won't have numbers on
Speaker 1: this guy. Is there a team in the Big Ten
Speaker 1: that he couldn't play for? Oh no, no, no, there's
Speaker 1: not a team in the country he couldn't play for.
Speaker 1: But wait, so see, I that's what I'm trying. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to I guess I'm trying to justify. Is it
Speaker 1: his fault that he ended up at Western Michigan because
Speaker 1: somebody missed him, a Big Ten team missed It's the
Speaker 1: same it's the same story as why did Antonio Brown
Speaker 1: go to Central Michigan or righted you know, Jerry Race
Speaker 1: go to Mississippi Valley State. Yeah, I mean it's I
Speaker 1: think it's that type of deal where that you know
Speaker 1: that that happens. You know, why would J. J. Watt
Speaker 1: have to be a walk on? Yeah? See we talk
Speaker 1: about Cooper Cup because is there a Pac twelve team
Speaker 1: that he couldn't have played for? Well so, but Dane
Speaker 1: to the point, you don't think those red flags will
Speaker 1: push him that far? Down the poort. Oh yeah, there's
Speaker 1: just no, there's too many teams that could use a
Speaker 1: receiver like that. Um, he's my number one guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I don't I think there are too many. And
Speaker 1: I love Williams too. He made too many fans around
Speaker 1: the league for him to follow that far. I have
Speaker 1: a I think it's a long shot he falls. He
Speaker 1: makes the twenties. Yeah, you know, as long as the ankles,
Speaker 1: Williams might go ahead of him. Willis what if Williams run?
Speaker 1: What if Williams doesn't run real well and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, Williams is a different story. He makes
Speaker 1: a ton of plays on tape, though you could see
Speaker 1: them all well, sure, but watch the National Championship game.
Speaker 1: The elephant in the room is a guy that was
Speaker 1: drafted in the first round last year, old miss. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right about though, you know, a guy that had
Speaker 1: one catch on Yeah. Man, you know, that's just it's
Speaker 1: an unfair comparison. But the truth is, Mike Williams is
Speaker 1: not a guy. It's not a speedster. His game is
Speaker 1: not built on speed. And it's gonna be hard to overlook,
Speaker 1: you know, especially after what happened last year to a
Speaker 1: lot of us. I thought, I don't think he's gonna
Speaker 1: fall to twenty eight Mike Williams, Corey Davis. But with
Speaker 1: that said, I do think that uh and Ross has
Speaker 1: really beat up. If you think about him, there might
Speaker 1: not be a first round receiver and the second round
Speaker 1: receiver might be the answer. With all those guys we
Speaker 1: talked about, Yeah, we talked about with the tight end,
Speaker 1: you know why you wait because you get one later
Speaker 1: receiver is just in that mix too. I love good segues,
Speaker 1: and that was one. A couple of people asked just
Speaker 1: and we've talked about his combine, but Zay Jones, we
Speaker 1: were talking about here, where where are we at? Where
Speaker 1: don't you thinking did he move himself up? Maybe a round?
Speaker 1: By what he why? What he what he ran? I
Speaker 1: think between the Senior Bowl and what he did today, Yes,
Speaker 1: I think he in my mind, he went from a
Speaker 1: borderline top one hundred pick third fourth round right up
Speaker 1: until a guy that belongs to somewhere top seventy five. Okay,
Speaker 1: so we're talking second round, right, Maybe chance he gets
Speaker 1: in the early third, but he's not gonna wait long
Speaker 1: on day two to hear his name. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's a first round guy. Um, but I think he's
Speaker 1: a very quality receiver who there's a lot there's so
Speaker 1: much to like about him. There is a lot to
Speaker 1: like about him at But Dane, you boy, you brought
Speaker 1: up something. You watch that tape, it's like one hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty balls going sideways. Yeah, there's not a lot
Speaker 1: of him. There's some, there's some, there's a couple. I mean,
Speaker 1: I trying to remember the game where I remember one
Speaker 1: of the games so I was watching. It might have
Speaker 1: been they play South Carolina. Ball went down the field though,
Speaker 1: adjusting catch down the field, and I'm like going, oh,
Speaker 1: there's one. But but the majority of his stuff is
Speaker 1: sideways or slants or the in the end kind of
Speaker 1: stuff and not at intermediate debt. And that's where it's
Speaker 1: it's or sideline outs. There's another thing. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: got that balance. That's where he has to be a
Speaker 1: good scout. You know, we're talking about with corners who
Speaker 1: you know, they have the the body to press, but
Speaker 1: they weren't asked to do it and call it, you know,
Speaker 1: or you know, a receiver who had the vertical skills
Speaker 1: wasn't asked to do it. You know he averaged under
Speaker 1: eleven yards per catch in college. Right, it's an alarming
Speaker 1: low number. Right, Yeah, you know, but it's just you
Speaker 1: can't the way he was used and watching him on tape,
Speaker 1: you thought, you know, this guy, he's a slot only
Speaker 1: receiver who you know, not gonna stretch the defense out vertically,
Speaker 1: but he has the numbers that tells you he can
Speaker 1: do it, just wasn't asked to do it. Eddie Long
Speaker 1: and similar line. But Eddie wants to know. And I
Speaker 1: mean obviously potentially from the last couple of days, um
Speaker 1: guys who maybe have snuck into the back end of
Speaker 1: the first round in your eyes, that weren't there. Trying
Speaker 1: to think of some guys that potentially the Cowboys could
Speaker 1: be sound like a Cowboys angle. I mean it is
Speaker 1: an angled toward the Cowboys, but it doesn't have How
Speaker 1: about Godwin? I mean, I know I have him in
Speaker 1: the second round. He's my number one receiver in the
Speaker 1: second round. About a guy we haven't talked about yet,
Speaker 1: Curtis Samuel four three one today. Okay, now there you
Speaker 1: got I think a player who you know he worked
Speaker 1: out with the Sievers, but you know we both are
Speaker 1: running back both believe he's a running back. But if
Speaker 1: I think the fact that he can he can do both,
Speaker 1: that there's a discussion there. It tells you a boy
Speaker 1: his versatility. So you're saying we're gonna have two first
Speaker 1: round gadgetbacks, I'm just telling you. His kid is five
Speaker 1: eleven one ninety six and he went four three one
Speaker 1: eighteen times with the wags, thirty seven with the vertical,
Speaker 1: nine eleven with the broad. He's got the shuttle of
Speaker 1: four three three, which is a little surprising because I
Speaker 1: thought he'd be a little bit quicker than that. But
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what though, watching him run routes and stuff,
Speaker 1: he's a running back to me, I agree. I mean
Speaker 1: he is. Well, he's in that Christian McCaffrey mold where
Speaker 1: you know he's not only a running back. I think
Speaker 1: if you're gonna label him as something on a roster,
Speaker 1: I agree, you put the RD next to his name,
Speaker 1: but you let him go in the slot. He's the
Speaker 1: chess piece on an offense where you move him around
Speaker 1: right and you stress out the defense because the defense
Speaker 1: is wonder Okay, what's he gonna do? Is he going
Speaker 1: out to run routes? Sure? Is he going to stay
Speaker 1: in him blow? Is he gonna get the handoff? He
Speaker 1: just he keeps defenses guessing and a player like that
Speaker 1: that can beat that type of weapon you can use
Speaker 1: Curtis Samuel, So I think he's he was in a
Speaker 1: top forty mix before. I think he definitely is now. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: thank you very much for all the questions on Twitter
Speaker 1: on the twenty. We appreciate the interaction we have. We
Speaker 1: will continue to always do that. I want to thank
Speaker 1: ed Ka Hill for coming up with that. I love
Speaker 1: it because it's the interaction and hopefully you got your
Speaker 1: questions answer. Okay, okay, So when we come back, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna visit with David Hellman. He was on the bus
Speaker 1: with Jerry Jones for two hours today. Let's see what
Speaker 1: mister Jones has to offer and tell us a little
Speaker 1: bit about this trap. We'll be right back deep in
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Speaker 1: Draft Showboys back back here at the two thousand and
Speaker 1: seventeen NFL Combine. Brian brought us along with Dame Brugler,
Speaker 1: David Hellman, Kent Garrison executive producing this show. I want
Speaker 1: to thank everybody out there that's been fallen along on Twitter,
Speaker 1: on the various platforms where we've done our show. I
Speaker 1: was looking at the podcast numbers and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: It's been outstanding. Can't thank you guys enough. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: if you want to leave comments, you want to go
Speaker 1: in that section leave some comments. I always go in
Speaker 1: there and try and see if there's anything new. Anyway
Speaker 1: we can approve the show. We'll be happy to do that. Also,
Speaker 1: to want to talk about your podcast as well. You
Speaker 1: do a couple of podcasts. You do this one and
Speaker 1: then you do one with Jeff Kavanaugh, who's our partner
Speaker 1: at one oh five three. Trust the Tape. Trust the
Speaker 1: tape to check it out. Check it. It's a very
Speaker 1: good podcast. A lot of information in that one as well.
Speaker 1: And then also to you this with the commine coming
Speaker 1: to close yet workouts coming up, you're working on the
Speaker 1: on the Beast the Beast. Yes, the thing is, uh
Speaker 1: it's gonna be extra beastly this year. Uh No, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be full of everyone who's bought up before they
Speaker 1: know what they're getting. There were four hundred reports. Everything
Speaker 1: you need to know from other workouts. This gun report
Speaker 1: to no details too small, so uh yeah, check that out.
Speaker 1: It should be ready here at the end of this month.
Speaker 1: Before we get talking about Erry Jones, I did want
Speaker 1: to mention, Yeah, we've heard for some defensive lineman today,
Speaker 1: Tack McKinley being one of them. Yes, a player that
Speaker 1: I know, Cowboy, A lot of Cowboys fans are interested in. Uh,
Speaker 1: he's gonna do everything tomorrow and the drills even though
Speaker 1: he has a bum right shoulder he has he's having
Speaker 1: surgery on Monday, right, Uh, do the workouts and he
Speaker 1: was gonna still benching tells a warrior. This guy is
Speaker 1: Seriously he revealed today that he's had that injury the
Speaker 1: last two years. He's played through it. So Uh, some
Speaker 1: interesting things from Tach McKinley today learning about that injury. Uh.
Speaker 1: Just he's an interesting player. And I think David said
Speaker 1: the best you know it, the team that gets him
Speaker 1: the media will be happy with the sound bite you're
Speaker 1: gonna get from this guy's And yeah, it's unbelieving. And
Speaker 1: he's just like, yeah, like this is my dream. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I'm I mean, I played two years with this thing. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna like go through all these workouts with
Speaker 1: a torn laborum. Yeah, that's insane. Yeah, and he's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's and also wanting to Miles Garrett revealed today that
Speaker 1: he had hurt his ankle, you know and any type.
Speaker 1: So if you're one of those guys who are watching
Speaker 1: tape or Gallus is watching tape anything after the Arkansas
Speaker 1: game is really bad for him because he got his
Speaker 1: ankle Hurton practice. You gotta watch September UCLA this he's
Speaker 1: an opener. Yeah, that injury happening against Arkansas and then
Speaker 1: the rest of the season he was he struggled with
Speaker 1: he thought he was coming back, and then he revealed
Speaker 1: today that someone uh you know, ran into him reinjured
Speaker 1: that ankle during practice. So that really kept him side
Speaker 1: not sideline because he's on the field, but he gimpie
Speaker 1: the rest of the year and that's why, you know,
Speaker 1: I think he was not as effective as you usually
Speaker 1: expect him to against Alabama and against the bigger teams
Speaker 1: down the stretch. Right, And Jabrill Peppers was another one
Speaker 1: we got a chance to visit with. Jabrill Peppers will
Speaker 1: work out with the linebackers and the defensive backs on Monday,
Speaker 1: so he has an arrangement with the combine to be
Speaker 1: able to do position drills. He's gonna run his forty
Speaker 1: with the linebackers tomorrow, do all their drills, stay over,
Speaker 1: and then on Monday, not run the forty again, but
Speaker 1: just do the drills with the defensive backs. So he
Speaker 1: was asked first question out of the blocks. They said,
Speaker 1: what position you place is? What do I look like
Speaker 1: I play? You know, he sees himself as a defensive Yeah,
Speaker 1: he sees safe. He sees himself as a safety. But
Speaker 1: he's going through the linebacker drills as well, because that's
Speaker 1: the position he was listed at the start the year.
Speaker 1: And he also said he would be willing to work
Speaker 1: out on the offensive side for exactly for the running
Speaker 1: teams that want to look him. We kind of we
Speaker 1: kind of hinted that that's when I thought that maybe
Speaker 1: his best position might even be as a running back.
Speaker 1: So we'll see. Yeah, put the balls hands, so we'll see.
Speaker 1: Those are all things that he can All you can
Speaker 1: do is do what a lot of versatil players, a
Speaker 1: lot of versus players. Okay, David, you had the opportunity,
Speaker 1: you got to spend two hours a day with the owner, president,
Speaker 1: general manager on the bus talking about various things. That
Speaker 1: broad question is always the takeaway, but let's keep it
Speaker 1: draft specific. I mean there's a lot of takeaway, and
Speaker 1: I mean we can get into Romo and a bunch
Speaker 1: of that stuff. Out of you can read Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: dot Com and here. The full video is on there
Speaker 1: if you want to watch it, listen to it here
Speaker 1: here on the Draft show, I think we should talk
Speaker 1: about war daddies, Okay, because one of the things he
Speaker 1: touched on was how do you go about finding the
Speaker 1: war daddy pass rusher that you mentioned that you want.
Speaker 1: Uh So, I'm just gonna read the quote because it's
Speaker 1: it's fantastic. He said, Well, I'll tell you how you
Speaker 1: try to get one. You try to do it like
Speaker 1: we did with Lawrence, which was trading up to get
Speaker 1: him rather than waiting for him to come to you.
Speaker 1: You try to get him like we did with Gregory.
Speaker 1: That's some of the capital you talk about there. You
Speaker 1: take more risks, you get a little risk here, you
Speaker 1: get aggressive on going to get him, all of which
Speaker 1: is not as sound as getting him with the first
Speaker 1: pick in the draft, which obviously they don't have that option, right,
Speaker 1: But you gotta be imaginative in positioning that. And my
Speaker 1: experience is that with more risk, there's more risk involved
Speaker 1: if you're willing to take it. Okay, so kind of
Speaker 1: sounds like it's one of these kind of sounds like
Speaker 1: the sounds like, how was a trading up to number
Speaker 1: one for Garrett which he didn't outline in this I've
Speaker 1: sat in drafts where he didn't have it one and
Speaker 1: he was absolutely miserable. So probably don't need to do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't detail it, but I mean he I thought
Speaker 1: it was really interesting. Okay, Yeah, you trade up for
Speaker 1: Lawrence And we talked about that the other night. Maybe
Speaker 1: you trade up from twenty eight to you know, twenty
Speaker 1: or something to get get this guy. But he threw
Speaker 1: Gregory out there too, which like as soon as and
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know anything, I'm not you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to tell you something. But as soon
Speaker 1: as he said that, Jim Williams, Tim Williams, I mean,
Speaker 1: you sit here and you think you're like, well, the
Speaker 1: cowboys learned their lesson. They're not gonna do that again.
Speaker 1: But if you have a chance to get a war daddy,
Speaker 1: I think till I think Tim Williams is the second
Speaker 1: best pass rusher from the street. I think you just
Speaker 1: just can. And this is the maybe the smartest thing
Speaker 1: I think you've ever said in the five years I've
Speaker 1: known you, which is that you can't one hundred percent
Speaker 1: predict what's going to happen when the GM knows he's
Speaker 1: not gonna get fired. Yeah, I mean that the GM knows.
Speaker 1: When the GM knows is that he will have his
Speaker 1: job the day after the draft and the year after
Speaker 1: the year after the draft, and the year after the draft,
Speaker 1: then you you can make some bold move. If Jerry
Speaker 1: Jones thinks that he needs a big, the old pass
Speaker 1: rusher to really I hate the term put this team
Speaker 1: over the top, but to really make a difference on
Speaker 1: this year's team, I definitely don't think he'd be afraid
Speaker 1: to do something. Okay, now, so let's talk about guys
Speaker 1: to Steven Jones. But let me ask you this though,
Speaker 1: could he could You know we've talked about if m
Speaker 1: if McKinley was healthy, he would not make it to
Speaker 1: Dallas at twenty eight. Do you think I would be surprised? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: I don't think he was healthy. I think he's like
Speaker 1: a top twenty. Okay, So then that leaves like, how
Speaker 1: about a guy like Barnett, and we think Barnett might
Speaker 1: go a little bit higher. Yeah, I don't think then. Okay, now, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: what if Barnette were to get to eighteen? Now do
Speaker 1: you go get him? Now? Do you go get him?
Speaker 1: That's the scenario. What are we giving up? Well, you're
Speaker 1: obviously you're gonna has to be ninety two. You're gonna happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's good. Yeah, Yeah, is that enough? It might not not?
Speaker 1: Maybe not to get eighteen. Yeah, if you're gonnap to
Speaker 1: like twenty two, then I think that might be enough.
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to probably give up sixty. Oh and
Speaker 1: I don't think you do that. You you try at
Speaker 1: all costs to avoid that. Don't take sixty. I'm just
Speaker 1: telling you, though, you can give that. I don't have
Speaker 1: my chart in front you. When the next draft show
Speaker 1: next Thursday, when we're back at the Star, I'll bring
Speaker 1: my jet my draft chart with me. Would you get art?
Speaker 1: Would you give up ninety two and one thirty three
Speaker 1: to get from twenty eight? Take? Oh? God, you don't
Speaker 1: have a fifth round pick either? Yeah? No, you get
Speaker 1: You're basically you're saying you're getting three good picks or
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you're getting two really good picks. You have
Speaker 1: to be pretty convinced that that player is gonna come
Speaker 1: in from day one and make an impact. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: let me I mean, and I'm I'm not saying I
Speaker 1: think this is a great idea, but I'm thinking like
Speaker 1: I'm Jerry Jones and I'm saying, Jalen Smith's playing, Charles
Speaker 1: Tapper's playing. I got I got those extra picks. Cowboys.
Speaker 1: See those two guys as two drafts that are joining
Speaker 1: the squad on this team like that. Basically both of
Speaker 1: them are just like, cover your eyes and hope for
Speaker 1: the best. Yeah, I'm serious. I know, I know, I'm
Speaker 1: serious too. You. I mean, if you throw those two
Speaker 1: guys in the mix and you're saying give me, we'll say,
Speaker 1: we'll say Barnett just for the sake of a name.
Speaker 1: Throw in Barnette and then a dB at sixty, and
Speaker 1: then you add those two guys to the mix and go,
Speaker 1: you're gonna need a saved You're a corner. It sounds
Speaker 1: like unless you got plans of resigning they have, they
Speaker 1: have too much crap that they need to do for
Speaker 1: them to be able to pull that off. That's too bold,
Speaker 1: that's tough, it really is. I I can't see him
Speaker 1: doing that. So the likely scenario then would be for
Speaker 1: him to do what he did with Gregory. Let's take
Speaker 1: a chance on Williams being there at sixty. God, what
Speaker 1: if they did that too, you know, back to back? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. Okay, let's let's look at the crystal ball.
Speaker 1: Let's look at the crystal ball. Sure, we're sitting there.
Speaker 1: We're sitting there at day two at the draft, and
Speaker 1: it comes up to down and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: we see Jason Garrett emphatically trying to convince Jerry Jones
Speaker 1: not to take the guy's like, and will McClay is
Speaker 1: like he's kind of trying to explain to Garrett and
Speaker 1: Jerry and wants nothing to do with either one of them.
Speaker 1: Were talking about, right, what are you gonna say when
Speaker 1: you when you when you say it's gonna be Tim Williams,
Speaker 1: what's your what's you're gonna the crystal ball? What are
Speaker 1: you gonna say? Good luck? You know, you crush your
Speaker 1: fingers and you just hope that the guy buys in
Speaker 1: it doesn't get into any problems. I don't that is
Speaker 1: a huge risk to take. I'm not sure I'm willing
Speaker 1: to do it. And we're after what happened with Gregory,
Speaker 1: you're not Yeah, well, not only that, but just I
Speaker 1: don't know when we're still figuring out, I want to
Speaker 1: know what spent did you did you listen to Tim
Speaker 1: Williams talk today? He seemed like he was on the
Speaker 1: defensive pretty much. Oh yeah. I think that stems from
Speaker 1: what he's been used to the past few days, being
Speaker 1: with teams. You know, he's taking a lot of he is.
Speaker 1: He is a punching bag right now, exactly. So, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't I think there's a good chance
Speaker 1: that when it's all said and done, he's not a
Speaker 1: first round pick, right. But it's sixty, that's what we're
Speaker 1: talking about. Hey, And for the record, we nobody saw
Speaker 1: Gregory falling all that way for sixty, So who knows
Speaker 1: if he's there at sixty? You know what, Here we
Speaker 1: go again. Yeah, I mean it's I don't think anyone
Speaker 1: would be surprised when they made that move. No, I
Speaker 1: don't think so. And let it be noted that we
Speaker 1: on the last night of the combine for us, we
Speaker 1: if if it gets to that point, we're just all in. No,
Speaker 1: you know what you guys it. I think they I
Speaker 1: hope that they've learned their lesson. Well, I hope, but
Speaker 1: you're right the way you said earlier, Dave, this general manager,
Speaker 1: you quoted him, let's pull it. Let's pull it back though,
Speaker 1: and be a little more realistic here, and not that
Speaker 1: that's unrealistic, but a little more vague. I guess, going
Speaker 1: back to the point, the original point. If you got
Speaker 1: a package twenty eight and ninety two to get something
Speaker 1: like how high up can that get you? And I
Speaker 1: know you don't have a chart. I wish I might
Speaker 1: chart with me. I'm sorry, Dane said, I mean twenty
Speaker 1: eight to twenty two. See if I could just get
Speaker 1: Denver to take Romo and flop those spots. We don't
Speaker 1: we don't need to get too deep and Jerry, Jerry
Speaker 1: said all possibilities are still on the table with Tony Romo.
Speaker 1: So okay, don't I mean that's not done, that's not finished.
Speaker 1: Real quick? Did he saything about backup quarterback? He did?
Speaker 1: He's saying about drafting a guy or he had a
Speaker 1: really he had a really, I'm I'm it's gonna take
Speaker 1: me forever to find it. But he basically said, you know,
Speaker 1: he's they really like Kellen Moore, which draft you know,
Speaker 1: roll your eyes or clap your hands however you feel.
Speaker 1: I don't care, um, but you know, he's basically like,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't have to get this like old
Speaker 1: thirty five year old veteran guy in the scenario where
Speaker 1: Tony Romo's not here. You know, we could bring back
Speaker 1: a guy like Kellen Moore and draft another guy. And
Speaker 1: I think I'm totally inferring here, but I kind of
Speaker 1: get the impression like Jerry really likes the idea of
Speaker 1: kind of like that Green Bay model of just having
Speaker 1: a guy in the pipe a lottery ticket. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it's and I don't. I think it works. I
Speaker 1: don't disagree with it at all. If this, if they
Speaker 1: were to draft a quarterback in the late rounds, I
Speaker 1: think it would piss a lot of fans off, but
Speaker 1: I think it would be smart. Oh yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know how. Why would you be pissed off about that?
Speaker 1: It's it's a lottery because it's a player that ideally
Speaker 1: will not be They don't have a fifth round pick,
Speaker 1: and barring a catastrophe. He's not going to take snaps
Speaker 1: and that makes fans upset. Just as a general rule.
Speaker 1: He'say thing about his offensive line, the right tackle spot,
Speaker 1: he said he has there's been no indication that dub
Speaker 1: Free plans on retiring, which we kind of heard that
Speaker 1: earlier in the week, but he's still relying on Jazz Green.
Speaker 1: Well we didn't really talk about Jazz and Lyo, but
Speaker 1: he didn't mean he expects dub Free to finish up
Speaker 1: his contract, so that's worth considering. But yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: did think, like Jerry kind of said, you know, we
Speaker 1: don't have to get this old quarterback on his last legs,
Speaker 1: like a Kyle Orton back in the day, Like maybe
Speaker 1: we draft another guy and just kind of keep the
Speaker 1: youth movement going, which I think is a good idea.
Speaker 1: All right, Well that was that. That was good stuff. Though.
Speaker 1: I like what he's talking about. I mean, my eyebrows
Speaker 1: shot up off my head when I heard him talking
Speaker 1: about taking risks to get where. I got one more thing,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, one more things that either about cornerback or safety.
Speaker 1: Really I'm writing a story about it right now. He
Speaker 1: said he would not tell us which, but he said,
Speaker 1: there's two positions on this roster that I think we
Speaker 1: really we have to do something about. We really can't
Speaker 1: afford to let that slip. I think cornerback is obviously right.
Speaker 1: Wide receiver is a really good candidate, specifically the Terrance
Speaker 1: Spot wide receiver too. And then I mean safety it's
Speaker 1: kind of an issue as well. So and people will
Speaker 1: say pass Rusher. I disagree with that because they have
Speaker 1: a lot, they have a lot of bodies. Yes, they
Speaker 1: could stand to improve, but they have the bodies necessary
Speaker 1: to play a game, whereas a cornerback and receiver they don't.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, no, And that all starts when we
Speaker 1: get back. I mean, we're gonna see yesterday right to night.
Speaker 1: I have a feeling a handful of like long time
Speaker 1: cowboys are going to be holding up new jerseys by
Speaker 1: the end of this week. That you're right about that. Okay, David,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing that. And that is uh,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be all the time that we have today.
Speaker 1: And just again, thank everybody out there for joining us
Speaker 1: these last several days. We appreciate all the interaction we
Speaker 1: have with you with the Twitter on the twenty. We
Speaker 1: appreciate you guys listening all the various platforms. Again, I
Speaker 1: encourage you to go on make comments stuff like that,
Speaker 1: be happy to to read those. Anything we could do
Speaker 1: to improve the show. We'll be back with these guys,
Speaker 1: Dame Bugler, David Helm and King Garrison. I'll be back
Speaker 1: with them on next Thursday. From the Star. We'll put
Speaker 1: a bow on this combine, look at look ahead, and
Speaker 1: look at these pro days. We got those coming up
Speaker 1: now and not too far we'll be drafting some players.
Speaker 1: So once again, thanks everybody out there, Thanks to Derek Eagleton,
Speaker 1: thanks to Ed K. Hill, and thanks to Taylor Stern
Speaker 1: for always pushing our stuff out there. We'll see you
Speaker 1: guys next week. From the Start