WEBVTT - Darren Walker

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to River Cafe, Table four, a production of iHeartRadio

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<v Speaker 1>and Adamized Studios.

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<v Speaker 2>When I met Darren Walker just a few months ago,

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<v Speaker 2>a friend took me across a crowded room with the words,

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<v Speaker 2>talk to this man about food, Ruthie. He is passionate.

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<v Speaker 2>So I did as told and put away all my

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<v Speaker 2>questions about the dynamic, social, radical philanthropic work he does.

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<v Speaker 2>President of the Ford Foundation, a member on the Council

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<v Speaker 2>of Formulations, a Fellow of the Institute for Urban Design,

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<v Speaker 2>vice chairman at New York City Ballet, and more So,

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<v Speaker 2>here we are ready to carry on our conversation about

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<v Speaker 2>food memories and his extraordinary work. You've chosen a recipe.

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<v Speaker 2>Would you like to read it?

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<v Speaker 3>I'd be delighted.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 4>Prosciutto and fig serves six. Ideally use purple basol and

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<v Speaker 4>ripe black figs or green basil and ripe green figs.

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<v Speaker 4>Twelve slices presciutto San Daniel, nine ripe black or green figs,

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<v Speaker 4>one bunch fresh mint, one bunch fresh purple or green basil,

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<v Speaker 4>one bunch rocket juice of one lemon, four to six

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<v Speaker 4>tablespoons extra virgin olive oil. Cut the figs in half.

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<v Speaker 4>Pick the young tender leaves from the mint and select

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<v Speaker 4>the smaller basil leaves. Pick over the rocket leaves, removing

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<v Speaker 4>the larger stems. Then wash and dry. Mix the lemon

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<v Speaker 4>juice with the olive oil. Season generously toss the figs

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<v Speaker 4>with the herb and rocket leaves, and the dressing. Place

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<v Speaker 4>on individual plates, combining the presciutto slices into the salad.

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<v Speaker 4>As you do so sounds.

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<v Speaker 2>Divine beautifully read thank you? Why did you choose this recipe?

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<v Speaker 4>I chose this recipe because I love figs. I'm from

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<v Speaker 4>the American South, and in Louisiana and Texas, figs are

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<v Speaker 4>plentiful and so I had them and just about everything,

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<v Speaker 4>and they were both sweet and tasty and healthy. So

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<v Speaker 4>I love them as a child.

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<v Speaker 2>So it would be sweet as in a tart or

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<v Speaker 2>in a jam.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, we in the South didn't have things like tarts.

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<v Speaker 4>We had pies, eyes which is, and cobblers. So I

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<v Speaker 4>remember my grandmother making cobblers. She made fig cobblers, peach cobblers,

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<v Speaker 4>strawberry cobblers, but my favorite were the figs.

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<v Speaker 2>And would you pick them from the trees or would

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<v Speaker 2>she go to a shop to buy them.

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<v Speaker 4>Did you have always, always in the yard? Always in

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<v Speaker 4>the South, people have in their backyards before organic farming

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<v Speaker 4>became chic, regular old working class Southerners would have figs

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<v Speaker 4>in their backyard, fig trees, pecan trees, all sorts of trees.

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<v Speaker 4>I remember picking things from mulberries. It was a magical

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<v Speaker 4>place in spite of the fact that we were poor,

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<v Speaker 4>because there were certain occasions when there were foods that

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<v Speaker 4>absolutely repulsed me that my family, especially my elders eight.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think it's interesting to talk about regional food

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<v Speaker 2>in the United States, because if I were to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about Italy right now, I would say that the food

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<v Speaker 2>of Italy isn't even region to region. It's town to town,

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<v Speaker 2>city to city, sometimes home to home, sister to brother.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I think about food in the United States,

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<v Speaker 2>the regional food that we talk mostly about, I think

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<v Speaker 2>is Southern food. And then if you divided Southern food

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<v Speaker 2>into Southern food of African Americans and the history of

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<v Speaker 2>that food, whether a lot of that food came from Africa,

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<v Speaker 2>whether I was reading that apparently some owners of plantations

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<v Speaker 2>would send for food from Africa, some seeds that people

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<v Speaker 2>are doing really interesting research about how African Americans really

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<v Speaker 2>contribute to the food of the United States.

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<v Speaker 4>Do you agree there would be no great American food

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<v Speaker 4>without the food of African Americans, both the foods that

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<v Speaker 4>we brought with us on the passage to America, the

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<v Speaker 4>rice that is a part of our tradition that is

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<v Speaker 4>now so deeply embedded in American food, especially Southern food.

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<v Speaker 4>And when I think about the South and regional cuisine,

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<v Speaker 4>it's important to understand the role of class and race

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<v Speaker 4>and the status of African Americans. For example, I detest

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<v Speaker 4>what I call slave food. What is that slave food?

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<v Speaker 4>Are the remnants of the cow, for example, that the

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<v Speaker 4>owners discarded. For example, this would include the intestines which

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<v Speaker 4>are called pigs feet, chicken neck, the things that the

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<v Speaker 4>enslaved people really had to eat because they were not

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<v Speaker 4>allowed to experience the bounty of the very produce and

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<v Speaker 4>poultry and meats that they cultivated themselves. And so I

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<v Speaker 4>have a really hard time and I think it's a

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<v Speaker 4>psychological issue of the complexity of being black in America.

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<v Speaker 4>The contradictions of our culture plays out in food and

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<v Speaker 4>and for me, part of it I think is just

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<v Speaker 4>my own Uh. The psychology, the trauma of being poor

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<v Speaker 4>in America and saying whatever is associated with that, I'll

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<v Speaker 4>reject it. And I'm not sure it's really fair because

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<v Speaker 4>there are lots of people who love Chitlin's and pigs feet.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, my French friends love.

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<v Speaker 2>Is the sausage of it exactly.

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<v Speaker 4>What we what we call in rural Louisiana Buddha.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the blood sausage.

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<v Speaker 3>Blood sausage.

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<v Speaker 4>It's all amazing when you when you toast it and

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<v Speaker 4>put uh hot sauce and all the those kinds of

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<v Speaker 4>spices on it. And then we talk about the food

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<v Speaker 4>of the Creole community. So this is the complexity of

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<v Speaker 4>the American South. It's very much region by region because

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<v Speaker 4>where I'm from in Louisiana, the food is very much

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<v Speaker 4>a function of seafood. So gumbos at two phase. These

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<v Speaker 4>are the sorts of things that I grew up on.

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<v Speaker 4>My mother, who is Creole, is a master chef when

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<v Speaker 4>it comes to good old fashioned Creole foods.

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<v Speaker 2>Can we just go back one minute, because you, in

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<v Speaker 2>one hand said that enslaved people were forced to eat

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<v Speaker 2>the remnants in the most appalling way of the owners.

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<v Speaker 2>But you also said that they brought food with them

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<v Speaker 2>from Africa. Were they allowed to eat the food that

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<v Speaker 2>they brought with them or were they totally only allowed

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<v Speaker 2>to eat the food that was chosen for them by

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<v Speaker 2>the owners.

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<v Speaker 4>Actually, what happened was that they were able to bring

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<v Speaker 4>seeds and certain kinds of foods that ultimately became appropriated

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<v Speaker 4>by the owners. And it's why rice is so plentiful

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<v Speaker 4>in creole foods in a lot of southern dishes, because

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<v Speaker 4>that was a clear and important staple food. But for

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<v Speaker 4>the most part, the things that the enslaved people brought

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<v Speaker 4>with them they were not allowed.

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<v Speaker 2>And can you just define what creole food is there?

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<v Speaker 4>So Creole people are the people of Louisiana, the southern

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<v Speaker 4>part of Louisiana, and Creole is a result of the

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<v Speaker 4>mix of African enslaved women, primarily who were impregnated by

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<v Speaker 4>their owners, and in places like Martinique, Haiti, countries like

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<v Speaker 4>this were in some ways the origins of Creole culture.

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<v Speaker 4>But New Orleans became the center of the Creole world,

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<v Speaker 4>and it was this amalgamation of French.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I was going to say, is French, because

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<v Speaker 2>Creoles sounds so French. To figure out where the French

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<v Speaker 2>came well.

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<v Speaker 4>And it's important to understand that the Louisiana purchase, which

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<v Speaker 4>was owned by France, and of course Jefferson, facilitated the

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<v Speaker 4>purchase of that massive part of America that France owned

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<v Speaker 4>where French culture was already established. French foods were established,

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<v Speaker 4>but the arrivals of large numbers of enslaved people really

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<v Speaker 4>changed the texture of the food. It became more spicy,

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<v Speaker 4>richer than other parts of the United States where the

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<v Speaker 4>spices were really not a part of.

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<v Speaker 3>The food tradition.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's both a part of the racial history of

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<v Speaker 4>the country, the American South. My mother herself a very

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<v Speaker 4>light skinned black woman with long hair like yours, is

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<v Speaker 4>a result of the kinds of mixing, if you will.

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<v Speaker 4>And when you visit a city like New Orleans, you

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<v Speaker 4>see many, many people who are black with light skin,

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<v Speaker 4>straight hair, who also call themselves creole.

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<v Speaker 2>And so going back back, tell me about the family

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<v Speaker 2>you were born into.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I was born in a small town in Louisiana

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<v Speaker 4>August twenty eighth, nineteen fifty nine. Place of birth charity

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<v Speaker 4>hospital lot.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't proper charity, I mean, do people contribute it

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<v Speaker 2>to it?

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<v Speaker 4>It was a state run, it was hospital. It was

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<v Speaker 4>a really challenging place. I was born to a single mother.

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<v Speaker 4>I never knew my father, but in many ways it

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<v Speaker 4>made me resilient. I remember one person saying to my mother,

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<v Speaker 4>what ails your boy? Something ails your boy? And of

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<v Speaker 4>course what ailed me was that I was a little

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<v Speaker 4>queer boy, and that was for some just an anathma.

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<v Speaker 4>And that my mother seemed to be so comfortable and

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<v Speaker 4>supportive of me was also an oddity. And my mother

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<v Speaker 4>worked a lot, and she always did her very best,

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<v Speaker 4>took and when she wanted to really treat us, she

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<v Speaker 4>cook my favorite jambalaya, shrimp and dewey sausage, chicken and

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<v Speaker 4>a real deep black woo that's made in an old

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<v Speaker 4>skillet and with bell peppers and onions.

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<v Speaker 3>It was just divine.

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<v Speaker 2>Where would she buy the ingredients? Would you find shrimp

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<v Speaker 2>and fish markets?

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<v Speaker 4>Absolutely in every town there is plentiful along the Gulf coast,

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<v Speaker 4>and we weren't far from the Golf coast. You could

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<v Speaker 4>find shrimp and crawfish and catfish, all the things that

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<v Speaker 4>I used to love. And then you, just as I said,

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<v Speaker 4>put a macailany hot sauce on it. On everything, and

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<v Speaker 4>it was beyond delicious.

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<v Speaker 3>This was all in our head.

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<v Speaker 4>My mother to this day intuitively knows how to make

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<v Speaker 4>a great gumbo, great corn bread stuffing for the turkey

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<v Speaker 4>at Thanksgiving, just intuitively. And did she teach you well, Ruthie,

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<v Speaker 4>I live the New Yorker life that I always wanted

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<v Speaker 4>to live, which means which means I.

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<v Speaker 3>Eat out every night.

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<v Speaker 4>I when you live in New York City, the combination

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<v Speaker 4>of dinner parties, galas and great restaurants means that you

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<v Speaker 4>can choose to simply not cook.

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<v Speaker 3>I have.

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<v Speaker 2>I think they're apartments without kitchens.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, oh, well there are apartments.

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<v Speaker 4>I lived in a lovely apartment with a tin burner

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<v Speaker 4>wolf range. My mother came to visit. She said, son,

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<v Speaker 4>I think something's wrong with your stove.

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<v Speaker 3>And I said, oh my gosh.

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<v Speaker 4>Really, so I called down to the porter and he

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<v Speaker 4>comes to the apartment and he goes into the kitchen

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<v Speaker 4>and I'm standing there with him and my mother and

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<v Speaker 4>he says, you never turn the pilot light on when

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<v Speaker 4>you moved in.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, how long had you been living there?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, it was August because my mother was in town

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<v Speaker 4>for my birthday. We moved in January, and of course

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<v Speaker 4>I said, what's a pilot light?

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<v Speaker 2>We've talked about the cooking of your mother family at home.

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<v Speaker 2>What was your first restaurant experience.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, my first restaurant experience was at the age of

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<v Speaker 4>thirteen when I worked as a.

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<v Speaker 3>Bus boy thirteen.

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<v Speaker 4>Indeed, I worked at a bus boy at a place

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<v Speaker 4>that was a very nice seafood restaurant. And when you're

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<v Speaker 4>a bus boy, you sit at the bottom of the organization,

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<v Speaker 4>along with the dishwasher, and you your job is to

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<v Speaker 4>be as discreet and invisible as you can as you

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<v Speaker 4>proceed around the room, taking away the things that people

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<v Speaker 4>no longer want. And that experience was profound because it

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<v Speaker 4>was the first time that I truly understood what it

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<v Speaker 4>felt like to be invisible, because people simply did not

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<v Speaker 4>acknowledge my very existence.

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<v Speaker 2>What was the restaurant like? Was it a fancy restaurant?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean, for.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, Baytown, Texas in nineteen seventy two, it was.

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<v Speaker 4>It was it was a nice, middle class restaurant that

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<v Speaker 4>took credit cards, arts, and the professionals who worked in

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<v Speaker 4>the all refineries in those sorts of places dined there,

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<v Speaker 4>all white, kind tale and primarily back of the house

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<v Speaker 4>were black and Latinos.

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<v Speaker 2>Was it legal to employ a thirteen year old?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh of course it wasn't legal.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't no.

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<v Speaker 3>Silling me.

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<v Speaker 4>I broke the law at age thirteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, you didn't employer broke the law.

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<v Speaker 4>What it did for me was instantiate a sense of

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<v Speaker 4>what it feels like to be marginalized. And I think

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<v Speaker 4>about that today. How many people feel invisible.

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<v Speaker 3>I went to.

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<v Speaker 2>College, and where did you go?

0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.640
<v Speaker 4>I went to the University of Texas in Austin, Texas, which,

0:16:56.000 --> 0:17:00.520
<v Speaker 4>for me, coming from my background and community like going

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:08.320
<v Speaker 4>to Paris, and there I was introduced to an entirely

0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:10.560
<v Speaker 4>new world of.

0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:13.919
<v Speaker 3>Yes food.

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:20.000
<v Speaker 4>But the reality of race and class really plays out

0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:24.280
<v Speaker 4>in college, at least for me it did. I lived

0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:30.159
<v Speaker 4>in a dorm with people from all over Texas, white

0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.520
<v Speaker 4>almost exclusively. Because the University of Texas at that time

0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.760
<v Speaker 4>had over forty thousand students, less than one thousand were

0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:41.960
<v Speaker 4>African Americans, and half of them were athletes. So it

0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:47.800
<v Speaker 4>was from that perspective, a very lonely place. But I'm

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:53.080
<v Speaker 4>an extrovert by nature, and I found my way. I

0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.520
<v Speaker 4>was very engaged. I was the leader of the student union.

0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:03.920
<v Speaker 4>I was very much engaged in campus life, but in

0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:08.320
<v Speaker 4>the process I made friends with some interesting people. And

0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:14.959
<v Speaker 4>I recalled a debutante party where Frank Sinatra was the talent,

0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:22.399
<v Speaker 4>another where the Temptations and earth Wind and Fire. Because

0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:27.399
<v Speaker 4>there's nothing like Texas debutants. They give the best parties,

0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:36.000
<v Speaker 4>their parents spend extravagantly and caviar. I was introduced to

0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:41.240
<v Speaker 4>at one of these parties. In retrospect, it was good caviar.

0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:47.000
<v Speaker 4>It wasn't great caviar, but I knew that I was

0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.760
<v Speaker 4>tasting something that was really good because it was with champagne.

0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.719
<v Speaker 4>And to me, there's literally nothing better.

0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.359
<v Speaker 2>So you were in university and then you went to

0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:00.800
<v Speaker 2>I came to New York, New York.

0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:05.040
<v Speaker 4>I came to New York because I was enamored of

0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:10.040
<v Speaker 4>the idea of New York, like so many people who

0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:14.159
<v Speaker 4>feel alien in their own community, So I went to

0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:18.399
<v Speaker 4>New York. I went to New York because also I

0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:23.920
<v Speaker 4>wanted to make money, and I'm unapologetic about that, because

0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:28.480
<v Speaker 4>when you grow up poor in America, black in America,

0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.439
<v Speaker 4>the thing you don't want to ever be again is

0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:37.680
<v Speaker 4>poor in America. And so I was lucky. I went

0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:42.480
<v Speaker 4>to first a big law firm and then to a

0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:46.479
<v Speaker 4>large bank and had a great run on Wall Street.

0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:51.119
<v Speaker 4>I enjoyed it. I didn't love it, but it provided

0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:56.280
<v Speaker 4>me with some level of financial security that was necessary.

0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.479
<v Speaker 2>When you go to a restaurant, what do you look for?

0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Do you look for the food, the atmosphere, the people,

0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:04.800
<v Speaker 2>the energy.

0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.720
<v Speaker 4>I look for the vibe. The vibe, and the vibe

0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:15.520
<v Speaker 4>to me includes what does it smell like, What does

0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.960
<v Speaker 4>the menu look like? What does the design of the

0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:23.960
<v Speaker 4>menu look like? What is the decor? Is it consistent

0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:29.160
<v Speaker 4>with the vibe or is there discontinuity of some sort.

0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:33.840
<v Speaker 4>I mean, for me, I really like energy. Some people,

0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:37.679
<v Speaker 4>for example, say, oh, this restaurant's too loud.

0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.159
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. I like a loud restaurant.

0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.360
<v Speaker 4>If I want an intimate dinner, yes, I'll choose something

0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:49.160
<v Speaker 4>that is quiet with very little background noise. But if

0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:53.399
<v Speaker 4>I want to have a great evening, I'll book a

0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:59.400
<v Speaker 4>table aboutos R or it's loud, it's boristerous. It feels

0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:03.800
<v Speaker 4>like New yuk on steroids. That's why I live in

0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:07.879
<v Speaker 4>New York. To drink New York from the fire hose.

0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:13.280
<v Speaker 4>And when you walk into a restaurant. You understand the vibe,

0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.960
<v Speaker 4>you understand the menu, you understand the people. By just

0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:22.360
<v Speaker 4>looking around and taking it all in.

0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:27.400
<v Speaker 2>You went to Harlem.

0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:30.760
<v Speaker 4>It's hard to imagine now that there was a time

0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:37.119
<v Speaker 4>when Harlem wasn't a desirable neighborhood. I remember when I

0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:41.320
<v Speaker 4>moved to New York in the mid nineteen eighties. No

0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.400
<v Speaker 4>one really wanted to live in Harlem.

0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Weather clubs, so there were great sat.

0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:50.840
<v Speaker 4>By that time, clubs were all gone. The Apollo was

0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:55.480
<v Speaker 4>the only thing left. The Renaissance Ballroom, the Small's Paradise,

0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.600
<v Speaker 4>all of those great places, the Cotton Club, they were

0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:05.760
<v Speaker 4>all gone, and what had replaced them was massive disinvestment.

0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:13.199
<v Speaker 4>I met the most brilliant man called Reverend Calvin Buttz,

0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:16.920
<v Speaker 4>who is the pastor of the historic Abyssinian Baptist Church

0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.800
<v Speaker 4>in Harlem, and he and another member of the church,

0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:26.440
<v Speaker 4>Karen Phillips, had a dream of vision to redevelop Harlem,

0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:31.280
<v Speaker 4>to create an in geo, a nonprofit that would take

0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:37.800
<v Speaker 4>many of the literally thousands of vacant properties in Harlem

0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:38.840
<v Speaker 4>and redeveloped them.

0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.280
<v Speaker 3>And so that's what I did. For eight years.

0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:46.840
<v Speaker 4>I worked for him, developing over a thousand units of

0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:52.840
<v Speaker 4>affordable housing. We helped develop the main commercial street in Harlem,

0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:54.240
<v Speaker 4>one hundred and twenty fifth Street.

0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:58.399
<v Speaker 2>I know that in areas of poverty, the access to

0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:02.840
<v Speaker 2>fresh food is actually very, very limited. I know there's

0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:06.879
<v Speaker 2>been a strong movement to try and get food that

0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:10.720
<v Speaker 2>isn't package, that isn't fast food, that isn't bad for

0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:13.680
<v Speaker 2>your health into areas of poverty.

0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:18.000
<v Speaker 4>When I moved to Harlem in nineteen ninety five, it

0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:23.000
<v Speaker 4>was a food desert. There was no supermarket. There were

0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:28.080
<v Speaker 4>no fresh foods to be found other than at the

0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:36.679
<v Speaker 4>local bodegas, which were stocked primarily with brown things. Brown

0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:44.480
<v Speaker 4>let us brown vegetables, and things close to their expiration date,

0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:51.080
<v Speaker 4>whether it be dairy or other products. And so this

0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:55.919
<v Speaker 4>is why we fought so hard for a supermarket that

0:23:55.960 --> 0:24:02.800
<v Speaker 4>would bring fresh produce. And so that supermarket came, but

0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:07.880
<v Speaker 4>along with it came higher income people. And the risk

0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:13.239
<v Speaker 4>is always that gentrification means that the winners are the

0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:15.720
<v Speaker 4>new residents and the losers are the people who have

0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:19.760
<v Speaker 4>been there, pushed out and pushed out. Today, when I

0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:24.040
<v Speaker 4>visit Harlem and you come on the subway, come off

0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:25.920
<v Speaker 4>the subway on one twenty fifth street and you come

0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:28.680
<v Speaker 4>up and you see on the one side you see

0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:32.119
<v Speaker 4>Whole Foods, Starbucks.

0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:33.879
<v Speaker 3>H and M.

0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:36.280
<v Speaker 4>I mean it is I mean there used to be

0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:43.360
<v Speaker 4>nothing there but literally abandoned buildings. It's been transformed, and Ruthie,

0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:48.520
<v Speaker 4>there's both good and bad associated with that transformation. And

0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:51.880
<v Speaker 4>what we at the Ford Foundation have worked on over

0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:57.680
<v Speaker 4>many years is helping to address the issue of food

0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:08.840
<v Speaker 4>deserts to finance supermarkets, food shops, other forms of cooperatives

0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:13.200
<v Speaker 4>that bring fresh food from farms and other places.

0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:16.640
<v Speaker 2>It is incredible work that you're doing at the Ford

0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:21.040
<v Speaker 2>Foundation with your experience having lived in poverty. Were you

0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:23.920
<v Speaker 2>hungry as a child or were you just limited in

0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:25.960
<v Speaker 2>your choices?

0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:30.400
<v Speaker 4>I was never hungry as a child, but I was limited.

0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:35.359
<v Speaker 4>And as I look back and reflect on some of

0:25:35.400 --> 0:25:43.920
<v Speaker 4>the things we ate, it's not a surprise to remember

0:25:44.720 --> 0:25:50.879
<v Speaker 4>the levels of diabetes. For example, I recall visiting my

0:25:51.480 --> 0:25:56.960
<v Speaker 4>family back in Rayne, Louisiana after we moved to Texas.

0:25:57.680 --> 0:26:02.000
<v Speaker 4>We'd spend weeks in the summer there and I recall

0:26:02.400 --> 0:26:07.720
<v Speaker 4>walking on this dirt road past various little shotgun shacks

0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:14.280
<v Speaker 4>where people lived, and seeing people without their limbs sitting

0:26:14.440 --> 0:26:22.520
<v Speaker 4>on the porches, especially large, often overweight men and women

0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:29.880
<v Speaker 4>without a leg or with their leg missing from the knee,

0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:34.679
<v Speaker 4>and someone would whisper, oh, that's diabetes. And then I

0:26:34.760 --> 0:26:38.720
<v Speaker 4>think about what we would have for lunch. Sometimes we'd

0:26:38.840 --> 0:26:44.240
<v Speaker 4>have a slice of bread, a slice of balogne, and

0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:48.679
<v Speaker 4>what my great aunt would call sweetened water.

0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:49.560
<v Speaker 2>What was that?

0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:51.280
<v Speaker 3>Just water and.

0:26:51.240 --> 0:26:55.520
<v Speaker 4>Chull And she'd take an old mason jar and just

0:26:55.960 --> 0:26:59.400
<v Speaker 4>put water in from the faucet and then just pour

0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:06.359
<v Speaker 4>sugar saturated with sugar, shake it and then pour it

0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:10.000
<v Speaker 4>into our little plastic cups that we have.

0:27:10.960 --> 0:27:14.600
<v Speaker 2>I think that we look at food, as you've just

0:27:14.680 --> 0:27:19.160
<v Speaker 2>described it, as an equal kind of insecure. We look

0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:21.399
<v Speaker 2>at it as unfair, but we also look at it

0:27:21.440 --> 0:27:25.679
<v Speaker 2>as great pleasure. We look at it as deliciousness, and

0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:28.080
<v Speaker 2>we should celebrate it.

0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:33.919
<v Speaker 4>Joy of food, it's no matter where we are. Food

0:27:34.720 --> 0:27:43.040
<v Speaker 4>is joy and the way in which it signifies culture, generosity,

0:27:44.200 --> 0:27:49.160
<v Speaker 4>a sense of grace, and an extension of human dignity

0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:53.159
<v Speaker 4>to another. Only food can do that.

0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:56.640
<v Speaker 2>It conveys, doesn't it. Food conveys as you say, love,

0:27:57.000 --> 0:28:02.560
<v Speaker 2>conveys generosity. It also conveys comfort. And so I was

0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:10.240
<v Speaker 2>wondering what would be your comfort food, my comfort meal, okay,

0:28:10.359 --> 0:28:21.240
<v Speaker 2>a meal fried chicken, old fashioned potato salad, collared greens

0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:30.879
<v Speaker 2>cooked in hamhock, and my mother's corn bread. Delicious, comforting,

0:28:31.119 --> 0:28:34.800
<v Speaker 2>full of memories and love. Thank you, thank you very

0:28:34.880 --> 0:28:39.200
<v Speaker 2>very much. Well, let's go have lunch.

0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:42.000
<v Speaker 4>I love the Idlet's have lunch.

0:28:45.400 --> 0:28:51.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm starving. Let's go have lunch. Thank you. To visit

0:28:51.160 --> 0:28:54.600
<v Speaker 2>the online shop of the River Cafe, go to shop

0:28:54.680 --> 0:28:59.760
<v Speaker 2>the River Cafe dot co dot Uque.

0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:04.000
<v Speaker 1>River Cafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and

0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:09.240
<v Speaker 1>Adamized Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:29:09.360 --> 0:29:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

0:29:12.880 --> 0:29:12.920
<v Speaker 4>I