Speaker 1: The Dream Team Tapes season two. Kobe Lebron and the
Speaker 1: Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
Speaker 1: the honor of representing the United States in the two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
Speaker 1: look forward to this for a while, you know, to
Speaker 1: be in this position now here we don't represent our
Speaker 1: country venus especially special Lebron James. We look for an
Speaker 1: opportunity of the the weekend on Athlama being the best in
Speaker 1: the world. I guess the Redeem Team is as it
Speaker 1: is right, We're the best team in the world. We're
Speaker 1: the best team in the world. We put fast football
Speaker 1: America basketball wheels beat, which is that time? Welcome to
Speaker 1: episode five of Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team. I'm
Speaker 1: J Dande and we're calling this episode Coach K's ways
Speaker 1: to look at the strategies and the tactics that Mike
Speaker 1: Shook used not so much in the games, not the
Speaker 1: XS and oose, but it's about his approach to leading
Speaker 1: this team and getting the most from this group. It's
Speaker 1: about identity and community, but First, I have a quick
Speaker 1: quiz from my co host Jack McCallum. Jack, can you
Speaker 1: spell Sewsky without hitting your keyboard and googling or any
Speaker 1: other cheating like that, You just spell for me k
Speaker 1: R g y z e w s k I no
Speaker 1: prom at all? Right, And that might be the easiest
Speaker 1: difficult name for me A spell as well, And it's
Speaker 1: it speaks to just how prevalent he's been for the
Speaker 1: last four decades that if you've covered basketball professional or college,
Speaker 1: you've written that name so many times that it comes easily.
Speaker 1: It shouldn't make sense. The fact that we all know
Speaker 1: how to correctly pronounce Schefski, which looks nothing like the
Speaker 1: way you say it, really speaks to his imprint in
Speaker 1: his stamp on the world of basketball. And Jack, now
Speaker 1: that you've passed through spelling tests, I want to know
Speaker 1: if you can give us a brief rundown of the
Speaker 1: role of the coach in USA basketball, because you were
Speaker 1: there from the first time NBA players came into international basketball,
Speaker 1: and how the role of the coach has changed from
Speaker 1: Chuck Daily leading the dream team to when Suzewski was
Speaker 1: called upon to coach this two thousand eighteen that's a
Speaker 1: good question. Mike's name, by the way, always reminded me
Speaker 1: of the character in the Superman comics. Mr mix Plexis,
Speaker 1: did you ever did you ever read that if you
Speaker 1: had to get him to spell his name backwards to
Speaker 1: go back into the third dimension or wherever the hell
Speaker 1: he was from. But anyway, the coaching role j and
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna speak to what happened in two
Speaker 1: thousand five when they finally decided we gotta get a program,
Speaker 1: you know, we gotta get like a thing with one
Speaker 1: coach and and a multi year commitment from players, because
Speaker 1: before that it was very Catches, catch Ken after Chuck Daily,
Speaker 1: and they gave the job, as they should have, to
Speaker 1: Lenny Wilkins, who was a loyal assistant on the ninety
Speaker 1: two team. Lenny had a bunch of guys. As Charles
Speaker 1: Barkley put it, the knucklehead factor was very high on
Speaker 1: that team. I'm sure Lenny was just glad to get
Speaker 1: the hell out of Atlanta with a gold medal two
Speaker 1: thousand The coach a little bit forgotten we talked about
Speaker 1: these Olympics was Rudy tom Janovic. And I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: you why he coached this team. J And it's a
Speaker 1: quick quiz for you. He coached the world championship team.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you a hundred dollars for every starter
Speaker 1: you can name on that team. We don't want to
Speaker 1: take too much time, but go ahead, Carter. This is
Speaker 1: the World championship team. Here you go, Kevin Garnett, not
Speaker 1: even close. Here it is Jimmy Oliver, Jason Sasser, Michael
Speaker 1: not Hershey Hawkins, Michael Hawkins, David not Leon Wood, and
Speaker 1: Gerard not Bernard not, Albert not bb King. That was
Speaker 1: a team that Rudy coach to a bronze medal in
Speaker 1: the World Championships. They were having labor problems at the time,
Speaker 1: you know, it was before the lockout. They couldn't get
Speaker 1: anybody to play, and that's the team they put on
Speaker 1: the court for the bronze medal, and Rudy coached that team.
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, it's looked upon as like a
Speaker 1: really great moment in USA basketball that they managed to
Speaker 1: win the bronze. So Rudy got the job in two
Speaker 1: thousand and then the two thousand two team we talked
Speaker 1: about that a little bit. Coach by George Carl had
Speaker 1: a sorry sixth place finish two thousand three was an anomaly.
Speaker 1: They put this great team together. That was was the
Speaker 1: Olympic qualifying team, who starters were Tracy McGrady, Jason Kidd,
Speaker 1: Duncan was on that team. Iverson was on that team,
Speaker 1: Jermaine O'Neill, Ray Allen, and Vince Carter off the bench,
Speaker 1: and Larry Brown coached that team. And that was largely
Speaker 1: the reason Jay that he coached the two thousand four
Speaker 1: Olympic team. And I will have to admit that covering
Speaker 1: those games in Puerto Rico in two thousand three, myself
Speaker 1: and a couple others had this idea, Hey, let's get
Speaker 1: a program, let's have one coach, let's make it kind
Speaker 1: of organized. And the guy, I said, Larry Brown, would
Speaker 1: be perfect. And then and then he had all this
Speaker 1: criticism for the way they coached in two thousand four
Speaker 1: when they got the bronze and Athens. And that led
Speaker 1: us to what we talked about last week, the higher
Speaker 1: of Jerry Colangelo and his move to talk to hire
Speaker 1: the guy we're going to talk about today, and what
Speaker 1: struck me when we were interviewing Seki and also Jim Beheim,
Speaker 1: who was routine deem redeem team assistant coach. We're gonna
Speaker 1: hear a lot from him in this episode. But when
Speaker 1: you look at those guys, just seeing them on our screens,
Speaker 1: is that these guys are institutions, right has been a dupe.
Speaker 1: Be has been at Syracuse since I started watching basketball
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen eighties. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: have memories of those programs before those guys were at
Speaker 1: the Helm. I'm sure you do, But to me, they're
Speaker 1: inseparable Duke basketball and Mike Schowski, Syracuse basketball and Jim Beheim.
Speaker 1: And there's something reassuring about that. I'll tell you what, Jay,
Speaker 1: here's how scary it is. I remember Jim as a
Speaker 1: player at Syracuse. I mean he was a very good player,
Speaker 1: and Dave Byng was there then, and I think Jim
Speaker 1: graduated obviously I should have looked us up, I think
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six. So we're now in the year
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. There was about a half a year
Speaker 1: when Jim was not at Syracuse University. Went there as
Speaker 1: a player, got his master's degree there. I can imagine
Speaker 1: he did a hell of a lot of studying to
Speaker 1: get that became the freshman coach, the j V coach
Speaker 1: got the varsity job, has never been absent from the
Speaker 1: bench since then. And like you said, you know, look,
Speaker 1: there's been some criticism of Jim recently, and there's some
Speaker 1: things that I wish he wouldn't say. But if you're
Speaker 1: talking about a guy that has shown loyalty to an institution,
Speaker 1: the two guys you would bring up would be Jim
Speaker 1: Beheim number one, and obviously Mike Showsky number two. And
Speaker 1: like I said, there's something reassuring about that type of
Speaker 1: loyalty longevity, especially now when it seems like nothing was
Speaker 1: the same like it was at the start of last
Speaker 1: year or two years ago or five years ago. And
Speaker 1: these two guys have been in the same places for
Speaker 1: forty plus years. And what was interesting, though, is that
Speaker 1: Sky didn't lean into that when he coached USA basket Ball,
Speaker 1: when he stepped away from the hallowed halls of Duke.
Speaker 1: And at that time, as he was coaching his two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight team, he'd already made ten trips to
Speaker 1: the Final four, he'd won three n C Double A championships,
Speaker 1: so he knew that gave him a little bit of
Speaker 1: credibility with the NBA players, but maybe not necessarily cash
Speaker 1: with them. And again, since this is about identity and community,
Speaker 1: he decided that, if anything, he was going to be
Speaker 1: more like the guy from the Polish neighborhood on the
Speaker 1: northwest side of Chicago and the guy who played basketball
Speaker 1: under Bob Knight in the Army Academy at West Point.
Speaker 1: And it reminded me of a story that Dan Bickley
Speaker 1: did for the Chicago Suntimes in December. I was just
Speaker 1: starting there, just starting off my career. Bickley was working there. Bickley,
Speaker 1: of course was the author as well of Return of
Speaker 1: the Gold, which is the book about the two thousand
Speaker 1: eight Olympic team that really proved useful in our research
Speaker 1: for this podcast. But the time he wrote an article
Speaker 1: about how She's SFETI was this guy from Quartz Street,
Speaker 1: the Polish neighborhood on the north weside of Chicago. His
Speaker 1: buddies had nicknames like Twam's and Mo and Porky. He
Speaker 1: gatting fights playing basketball against teams from outside the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: And in the first meeting that Mike Sasefski had with
Speaker 1: this group that would be the two thousand eight Olympic team.
Speaker 1: That's the neighborhood that Ski went back to. And he
Speaker 1: starts talking the way that he's used to talking, but
Speaker 1: it's not the way that they were used to hearing him.
Speaker 1: I know, I probably have to follow them out, but
Speaker 1: they don't expect me to say, motherfucker all right, and
Speaker 1: you know when you're talking, just come on your motherfucking like,
Speaker 1: we gotta get this gold medal. And all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I wasn't this uh guy from Duke in West Point,
Speaker 1: you know, it's more of the guy from the inner
Speaker 1: city of Chicago. And one of the people that uh
Speaker 1: it definitely made an impression on was Jason Kidd, the
Speaker 1: veteran leader of the redeem team. First meeting, we got
Speaker 1: to hear coach k Couss right and I could believe it.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, like, this is the same guy
Speaker 1: that's on TV, and like, I think he said the
Speaker 1: whole the tone, the whole mood kind of like relaxed
Speaker 1: and everybody was, you know, not on edge now. And
Speaker 1: Coach again, he hit it out of the park when
Speaker 1: he first cussed, and I couldn't believe it. I was like,
Speaker 1: just got cusses and they go He's he's got a
Speaker 1: filthy mouth, and I'm like, oh, this is gonna be fun.
Speaker 1: So another unexpected move was that Shefsky contradicted the Godfather
Speaker 1: Jerry Colangelo, and he didn't quite take sides against the family,
Speaker 1: but still Collegelo told the team one thing, and then
Speaker 1: Sky immediately told them the opposite. He talked to him,
Speaker 1: he said, and leave your egos at the door. And
Speaker 1: I got up and I said, you know, the only
Speaker 1: time I'm gonna probably disagree with Jerry, but don't leave
Speaker 1: your he goes at the door. Lebron, you be Lebron Kobe.
Speaker 1: You know. All I know is the Gasols are gonna
Speaker 1: be the Gasols. Geno believe will leave be even better
Speaker 1: if you guys, aren't you We're not gonna win. We
Speaker 1: are not gonna win. And for most of them, it
Speaker 1: was the first real test of Coach K and something
Speaker 1: I found really interesting. But Jay, there was something Beheim
Speaker 1: told us that the fact that Coach K wasn't an
Speaker 1: NBA coach and didn't have history with most of these
Speaker 1: guys was a big plus because that was the polar
Speaker 1: opposite when they picked the first coach who was going
Speaker 1: to lead NBA stars into the Olympics. The idea was, oh,
Speaker 1: it can't be a college coach, you know, it's got
Speaker 1: to be an NBA coach. And here's what Beheim had
Speaker 1: to say. But having a college coach, you have no friction.
Speaker 1: I don't care what pro coach takes it. He said
Speaker 1: something bad about somebody or somebody or something during the
Speaker 1: course of his career that somebody won two or three
Speaker 1: NBA players, they're gonna say, I don't like that guy.
Speaker 1: So we had none of that. You know, we had
Speaker 1: no issue. And I think that in in only that,
Speaker 1: But I remember Lebron coming to me and when I
Speaker 1: said something about Zecia's coach, don'tor you tell me something.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna listen to you. You've been doing this a
Speaker 1: long time. And so I think they were really listen,
Speaker 1: would listen to whatever we said. And we were college coaches.
Speaker 1: We had never beaten them in a tough game or
Speaker 1: said something about him. So I think that was good.
Speaker 1: I think that's important. I think that's a I think
Speaker 1: that's a benefit. So that doesn't mean that no players
Speaker 1: had a history with coach k So, for example, Chris
Speaker 1: Paul and Chris Boss had gone up against him in
Speaker 1: their days playing at the in the A. C. C.
Speaker 1: Bosh went to Georgia Tech, and here's his memories of
Speaker 1: seeing Coach K and the sidelines in those games. I
Speaker 1: only had one year in a sec, but I mean
Speaker 1: he always had that intense intenseness, intense nature a boy himself.
Speaker 1: So those couple of times on um, you know, playing duke,
Speaker 1: I mean you could hear him. He's right, you know,
Speaker 1: right there, he's yelling at his guys, encouraging them to
Speaker 1: play harder, play better, and they are and man, we're
Speaker 1: down twenty now. So when those things are happening, you're
Speaker 1: super competitive. You know, you tend not to like that person.
Speaker 1: But I came into the situation, of course, he's you know,
Speaker 1: Coach K, and you know I came into the situation
Speaker 1: with an open mind. And and um, we all had
Speaker 1: to find ourselves in over six and o seven, But
Speaker 1: by two thousand and eight, I think we all had
Speaker 1: a pretty good uh rhythm to what was going on
Speaker 1: and how important it was for everybody. Of course, and
Speaker 1: also if you played in college as long as a
Speaker 1: guy like Darren Williams did, and you had success going
Speaker 1: through the n C Double A Tournament. Sooner or later,
Speaker 1: you're gonna run across Coach K during the n c
Speaker 1: Double A Tournament. I think Coach K was perfect for us.
Speaker 1: You know, he was I feel like the right person
Speaker 1: at that at that time, I felt like he was
Speaker 1: even though he was a college guy. All the NBA
Speaker 1: guys respected him, you know, his body of work and
Speaker 1: then you know his work ethic and you could just
Speaker 1: see the passion he he had for the country and
Speaker 1: for representing the USA basketball And so I thought I
Speaker 1: thought he was perfect. And he did such a great
Speaker 1: job of of you know, talking to guys, motivating guys.
Speaker 1: I mean, you really have to motivate us. Honestly, we
Speaker 1: were pretty motivated as it was, you know, once we
Speaker 1: made that commitment. But you know, he just was. He
Speaker 1: just did some such a great job of coaching and
Speaker 1: motivating and bringing us together. And um, you know, it
Speaker 1: was really awesome to play for him, even though I
Speaker 1: hated him up to that point. Why would that be
Speaker 1: what what would you connect? You just do? Yeah, they
Speaker 1: beat us. Uh, my sophomore year in the n ct
Speaker 1: A tournament, got got some really questionable calls. So clearly
Speaker 1: he was able to get over it. And Kate did
Speaker 1: have one player that he coached in college on the team,
Speaker 1: Carlos Boozer, and I was curious how close coach k
Speaker 1: had to having another Dukey on the squad, and that
Speaker 1: was Kobe Bryant. Now there's some alternate timelines where Kobe
Speaker 1: goes to college instead of straight to the NBA from
Speaker 1: high school. We've always assumed that he went to college
Speaker 1: that be Duke. Someone asked him on Twitter which school
Speaker 1: he would have chosen. He replied Duke. But in he
Speaker 1: also did a charity fundraising interview with Jimmy Kimmel in
Speaker 1: which he said he would have gone to North Carolina.
Speaker 1: So who knows how it would have gone, which which
Speaker 1: alternate timeline. Of course we know what ultimately happened. But
Speaker 1: Jack you around in Philadelphia, and Rashid Wallace had gone
Speaker 1: from Philly to Carolina a couple of years before. Now
Speaker 1: I'm wondering what was the speculation in Philadelphia about what Kobe,
Speaker 1: who went to high school at Lower Merion on the
Speaker 1: main line, what Kobe was gonna do once it was
Speaker 1: time to move on from high school. Well, the one
Speaker 1: thing good about Kobe then that I don't remember, and
Speaker 1: even did some research on it. He never played footsie
Speaker 1: like a couple other guys with Oh, I'm gonna stay
Speaker 1: in Philly. You know, everybody praised the Philly coaches. John
Speaker 1: Cheney's a genius. We love that guy, Fran Dunfie, you know,
Speaker 1: Phil Mark Tully, all these real Philly guys. And then
Speaker 1: nobody went to school there. Rashid Rashid Wallace left, Pooh
Speaker 1: Richardson left, Bo Kimball left, Hank Gathers left, Scoop Jardine,
Speaker 1: Eddie Griffin. There was a couple of guys that stayed, Uh,
Speaker 1: Kyle Lowry, Aaron McKee, Uh, Lionel Simmons actually, who was
Speaker 1: a really great player with sal Kobe didn't do that.
Speaker 1: But as I recall it, Jay, he did do a
Speaker 1: little bit of foot see I I had He had
Speaker 1: said at one point that North Carolina stopped recruiting me. Well,
Speaker 1: what he meant was Dean Smith said to him, Dean
Speaker 1: wouldn't talk like this, but he ain't coming to college.
Speaker 1: You know, he's going to the NBA. And I think
Speaker 1: he kept the dance on a little bit longer with
Speaker 1: with Mike, with Shoski. But you know, and it's funny,
Speaker 1: you know, because of all the kids that jumped into
Speaker 1: college that that didn't go to college, excuse me, Kobe
Speaker 1: would have been, you know, really perfect college guy, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. He was a really smart kid.
Speaker 1: He would have enjoyed the classes he could have gone
Speaker 1: in there and you know, spoken Italian to some people,
Speaker 1: but really in the you know, from the beginning, his
Speaker 1: m O was I'm going to go to the NBA,
Speaker 1: and I think that was clear to most people. Well,
Speaker 1: here's what coach Ka told us about his recruitment or
Speaker 1: lack there of, of Kobe. You know, I never thought
Speaker 1: he would go to college. We recruited him, but it
Speaker 1: no one recruited him to any deep level because you knew,
Speaker 1: you know, like I never saw Lebron play in high school.
Speaker 1: But when I saw Kobe play, He's the best high
Speaker 1: school player I've ever seen. And when he walked into
Speaker 1: a gym, he walked in like Jordan's at a high
Speaker 1: school level. Like the place stopped, you know, like he
Speaker 1: not only could play the role during a game, he
Speaker 1: played the role before and after the game. He looked
Speaker 1: that good, he leave, he was that good and he
Speaker 1: was that gud but I knew he was never gonna come.
Speaker 1: So of course, when Kobe did make his announcement, here's
Speaker 1: what he had to say. No, I have decided to
Speaker 1: skip college and take about towns to the NBA and Jack.
Speaker 1: I wonder what that Coach k Kobe relationship would have
Speaker 1: been like if Kobe had gone to Duke, and he
Speaker 1: would have arrived on campus with that natural teenage rebellion
Speaker 1: and and Coach k would have been the authority figure.
Speaker 1: And it feels like there would have been an inevitable
Speaker 1: class just like Kobe had with Phil Jackson that we
Speaker 1: detailed in the second episode of this series. But instead
Speaker 1: they don't collaborate until they get together on Team USA,
Speaker 1: and maybe they were even peers at that point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: sort of. I can't imagine if he would have gone
Speaker 1: to college, Kobe would have been a one year guy
Speaker 1: and then talking to us. You know, he he got
Speaker 1: his lesson about dealing with the pros when he was
Speaker 1: an assistant on the Dream Team back in ninety two,
Speaker 1: when he was all eager, Hey, what should I do?
Speaker 1: What should I do? Coach? What should I do? Chuck?
Speaker 1: Tell me what to do? You know, him and p J.
Speaker 1: Car Lesimo are really excited, and Chuck looks at them
Speaker 1: and goes learn to ignore, meaning don't look at everything.
Speaker 1: You know, Barkley is gonna screw around and throw the
Speaker 1: ball at a wall, or he's not gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: run hard in every drill, you know take you know,
Speaker 1: just don't have to notice everything like you do with Duke,
Speaker 1: and Showski even admitted that even after that experience when
Speaker 1: he go went back to his team, it changed them
Speaker 1: a little bit. But you can't be the same guy
Speaker 1: coaching college that you are in the pros. And one
Speaker 1: of the great things we found out Jay was how
Speaker 1: good coach K was at dealing with pros. You know,
Speaker 1: nobody had one bad thing to say. And these were
Speaker 1: the biggest stars in the game on that Redeem team. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and uh Jim Beehi, I've talked about that with us,
Speaker 1: about the difference in Coach K the college coach and
Speaker 1: coach K coach and the Redeem team. The key with
Speaker 1: Mike is that he is different in college. What he
Speaker 1: does in college and what he did with those guys.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was like a pro coach. He's a
Speaker 1: master psychologist master. It really the mental aspect of coaching,
Speaker 1: getting the players to contribute, getting them to show that
Speaker 1: they're part of the that they got we're saying in
Speaker 1: what we're doing, uh, and in getting them to accept
Speaker 1: their roles. And they were good. The NBA players were great.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Kobe Lebron and the redeem Team. We'll
Speaker 1: be back in a minute. So one thing that had
Speaker 1: to have helped was that coach k wasn't acting like
Speaker 1: the coach of Duke, and he was obsessed and i'd
Speaker 1: say even repressed with coaching USA basketball. And we talked
Speaker 1: to him. I was amazed at the details that he
Speaker 1: remembered from his time with that team, and we'll hear
Speaker 1: several of them over the course of this podcast series.
Speaker 1: Also the emotions that reservice, how he was getting choked
Speaker 1: up at times telling us about some of the moments
Speaker 1: that he shared with this group. And it's not like
Speaker 1: he was tired of Duke and that he was going
Speaker 1: through the motions. I mean, after this two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight experience, he won two more national championship at Duke
Speaker 1: and he sort of got with the times and started
Speaker 1: recruiting these one and done players. So it wasn't like
Speaker 1: he was finished with Duke. But those championships might even
Speaker 1: be more impressive than the earlier ones, right, because he's
Speaker 1: older and there was a bigger generation gap of the players.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering perhaps this experience helped him connect with
Speaker 1: the new generation or new generations of players from this
Speaker 1: this Olympic odyssey that he went on. But I just
Speaker 1: got the feeling that these Olympic gold medal teams, remember
Speaker 1: he coached in in twelve and sixteen as well, they
Speaker 1: just meant something more to him. And Jack, did you
Speaker 1: notice that when he talked to us, he was wearing
Speaker 1: a USA Basketball shirt and not a Duke shirt. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: he probably made it. He had just come from practice.
Speaker 1: I think he probably did one of the quick change artists,
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, but you know it isn't hard j
Speaker 1: for him to get into that mode. He goes way
Speaker 1: back with USA Basketball. He was an assistant to Bob
Speaker 1: Knight on the infamous nineteen seventy nine Puerto Rico Pan
Speaker 1: American game when uh, when coach Knight put a Puerto
Speaker 1: Rican policeman in a in a trash can. So he
Speaker 1: goes way back and he always wanted his guys to play.
Speaker 1: You know, Christian Latner was one of those guys. As
Speaker 1: much of a pain in the neck as Christian could be.
Speaker 1: He was one of those guys playing on the Junior
Speaker 1: USA national teams over there, you know, where the toilets
Speaker 1: wouldn't flush very well, and the and the water wasn't
Speaker 1: always warm, and so he always had this kind of
Speaker 1: soft spot. And the fact that he goes all the
Speaker 1: way back to nine seventy nine and still, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: he's still coaching gold medal teams in two thousand and sixteen.
Speaker 1: At the same time, he's keeping up a duke basketball
Speaker 1: pro ram that's one that has remained one of the
Speaker 1: tops in the nation over the last three decades. That
Speaker 1: is pretty extraordinary. And uh, Jim Beheim talks about Mike
Speaker 1: Sassky in that respect. Mike literally worry about this three
Speaker 1: d days a year. Literally when he was gonna do
Speaker 1: Renny for n C double a term game, he was
Speaker 1: watching tape of you know, Spain. He did. He really
Speaker 1: did that. He brought into this is this is it?
Speaker 1: I mean, he wouldn't admit to it, probably, but this
Speaker 1: was the most important thing for him. I think of
Speaker 1: all the things. I mean, let's see, won five n
Speaker 1: C Double A championships, but he worried and thought and
Speaker 1: stressed on this every day. He liked kneel on because
Speaker 1: the staff like me along because I try to get
Speaker 1: him the ease up a little bit. Here, Let's take
Speaker 1: a few minutes off here, let's get away, let's go
Speaker 1: to dinner, let's come down. It's just funny to me
Speaker 1: this notion of Jim Beehive as the chill guy, right,
Speaker 1: That's not how we think of Jim Beheim. Is the
Speaker 1: guy to be like Mike, calm down, settled down, lacks.
Speaker 1: That's not the popular impression that we have a Jim Beehive.
Speaker 1: And one of the things I found out being around
Speaker 1: him for for his practices is he kind of lets
Speaker 1: everything go. You know, they're screwing around. The music is
Speaker 1: playing loud, and Jim kind of looks up at the booth.
Speaker 1: They turn off the music, and he strolls into the huddle,
Speaker 1: and for whatever reason, everybody shuts the hell up and
Speaker 1: you can't hear what he's saying. Now you get him
Speaker 1: into a game, you know, then he kind of turns
Speaker 1: into that whiney, gesticulating Jim Beheim that we knew, but
Speaker 1: in this kind of atmosphere, Jim kind of understood that
Speaker 1: as the other college coach, you know, and coach K
Speaker 1: is gonna be watching film at four o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be hearing about that. Later in the podcast,
Speaker 1: Jim thought, now, I'm not gonna be that guy, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be kind of the as you said, the
Speaker 1: chill guy. And he did have that in him. It's funny.
Speaker 1: I remember at the Final four, uh five, the one
Speaker 1: that was in New York that the last non dome
Speaker 1: Final four actually, and in the off day, they have
Speaker 1: a media availability at the Merritt Marquis Hotel in this ballroom,
Speaker 1: and Jim Beeheim's up there, and he was so good
Speaker 1: and so loose and relaxed they actually had to cut
Speaker 1: off his mic so that they could go on. I mean,
Speaker 1: he could have stayed up there all day. He was
Speaker 1: having a great time dealing with the media in this
Speaker 1: in this ballroom, in this New York City hotel room.
Speaker 1: But uh, you know, on this two thousand and eight staff,
Speaker 1: the Redeemed Team staff, keep mind, it wasn't just the
Speaker 1: college coaches. So It's not just Schowski in Beheim. You
Speaker 1: had Mike Tantoni and Nate McMillan, who are the NBA
Speaker 1: coaches on this staff, and D'Antoni met with us and
Speaker 1: he told us how adept coach k was that managing
Speaker 1: this team. He was really good at He understood exactly
Speaker 1: how how much to give them. You know, we always
Speaker 1: kept saying, you want to be uh prepared, but not
Speaker 1: over over prepared. You know, I think we we did
Speaker 1: a lot of film work, we watched games up games,
Speaker 1: but he he really took care of the players. He
Speaker 1: knew how exhausting it was playing the NBA season, and
Speaker 1: he had a good field of the team. And that's
Speaker 1: what you know, besides the exes and ohs, which he's
Speaker 1: really good at and uh, there's a lot of coaches
Speaker 1: like that, but his is one of his best things
Speaker 1: that he does is the filling the pulse of the
Speaker 1: team and how much he needs to talk to him
Speaker 1: or give him, give him freedom or you know, I
Speaker 1: have like you said, have selected hearing. Having selected hearing
Speaker 1: is huge and he didn't miss the beat on that.
Speaker 1: I think one of the overlooked guys in this Jay
Speaker 1: is is Nate McMillan, and it kind of speaks to
Speaker 1: you know, it's almost an extension of his playing career.
Speaker 1: He was an All defensive team guy, I think second
Speaker 1: team All Defense three years and he was the one
Speaker 1: that sort of reinforced the seriousness of purpose of of
Speaker 1: Shasky and you know, you have to play. Everybody would
Speaker 1: laugh and say, oh defense. You know, there was nothing
Speaker 1: you had to d up in this for the Redeemed
Speaker 1: team in two thousand and eight, you were playing against
Speaker 1: prose who from Spain, who shot threes. You had to
Speaker 1: play the whole game. And I think that's what Nate supplied,
Speaker 1: that kind of intensity and defensive philosophy that Showski wanted
Speaker 1: to incorporate. Mike D'Antoni, on the other hand, was sort
Speaker 1: of the guy that, you know, I think Chris Bosh
Speaker 1: told us off handedly, well, you know, coach D'Antoni will
Speaker 1: go We'll just outscore him, you know, And that that
Speaker 1: was Mike. And is it a positive or a negative?
Speaker 1: Would his son's teams, which I was around in the
Speaker 1: early aughts, would they have won a championship if Mike
Speaker 1: had a little more Nate McMillan or Mike Showsky and him.
Speaker 1: I know what D'Antoni would say, you're full of crap. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta be the way you're gonna be.
Speaker 1: But they were a great pairing. I think Mike for
Speaker 1: a little bit of the hey, let's play loose offensively,
Speaker 1: let's to be ourselves, and and Nate would say, hey,
Speaker 1: we gotta locked down once in a while. You know
Speaker 1: this isn't this is two thousand and eight when we
Speaker 1: got the Gasol brothers and uh guy shooting NBA three pointers.
Speaker 1: So they were a good match. Yeah, And you know,
Speaker 1: Sezsky would turn to them for not just philosophy but
Speaker 1: also specific play calls, right and in in a huddle,
Speaker 1: he was more than willing to turn over the clipboard
Speaker 1: and let those guys diagram plays. And also he'd get
Speaker 1: advice from them on not freaking out if the players
Speaker 1: appeared to be preoccupied with other things. During his pregame speech,
Speaker 1: I relied tremendously on Mike D'Antoni and Nate tell me
Speaker 1: what a pro grat like. Even as scouting reports and
Speaker 1: things like that, a big thing for me was talking
Speaker 1: to them before a game and what the hell they
Speaker 1: were doing. I'm used to a team just sitting there
Speaker 1: and doing I mean, they're doing all kind of crap.
Speaker 1: You know, they're they they're putting their feed on tennis balls,
Speaker 1: they're rolling their bodies, they're stretching, they're whatever. And that's
Speaker 1: happened the first time. And Nathan Mike said, don't worry.
Speaker 1: They're paying attention. And I said, makes me nervous, And
Speaker 1: they said, don't be nervous. In other words, don't try
Speaker 1: to change their environment in certain things, and you change
Speaker 1: your way of looking at that environment. And I've benefited
Speaker 1: greatly from having that pro influence and any side out
Speaker 1: of bounced play, I let them diagram too, because the
Speaker 1: NBA has only six thousand, four hundred and thirty three
Speaker 1: side out of bounce place. And uh, I just relied
Speaker 1: on them a lot. So I call all those guys
Speaker 1: like our co coaches. Really they were. We really worked
Speaker 1: well together as a as a group, you know. And
Speaker 1: also it was better for them to hear more voices
Speaker 1: than mine, and they knew how good MICUs and Nate
Speaker 1: and you know, for me not not to let them
Speaker 1: do their thing would be numb. I mean, Mike is
Speaker 1: one of the most brilliant offensive minds. He would always say, though,
Speaker 1: don't worry, we'll outscorm I said, no, let's play some
Speaker 1: different sounds like, let's let's play. I'd be more comfortable
Speaker 1: if he's played some. So Nate was big obviously is
Speaker 1: one of the great defensive players. Uh in the n
Speaker 1: b A. I said, don't let him influence you. Let's
Speaker 1: get a good balance. You're listening to Kobe, Lebron and
Speaker 1: the Redeem Team. We'll be back in a minute now.
Speaker 1: One of the things that that Sky did which was
Speaker 1: very smart, was take input not just from the assistance,
Speaker 1: but also from the players. And a lot of coaches
Speaker 1: are slow to understand. And you're talking about two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight Redeem Team, as was the case with the
Speaker 1: two Dream Team, you're talking about some of the smartest
Speaker 1: players ever to play the game. I mean, Lebron James's
Speaker 1: basketball like you, I don't know where do you put it.
Speaker 1: It's on a level certainly with with Larry Birds, Oscar
Speaker 1: Robertson's you know magics and coach k took input from
Speaker 1: them as well as the assistance. Before we ever had
Speaker 1: a practice, I met with those my leadership team. It's
Speaker 1: kid Dwayne Kobe and Lebron and I said, well, you know,
Speaker 1: we got a short period. We've gotta have two practices
Speaker 1: a day. And they looked at me and said, you know, coach,
Speaker 1: we can't do that. So I don't know if they're
Speaker 1: punking me or whatever. That's what he means, says, we
Speaker 1: all have our routines in the morning, pilates, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: We have a team meeting, will practice, some of us
Speaker 1: will want to work after practice, some of us will
Speaker 1: want to come at night. Let us have our routines,
Speaker 1: and you don't have to do any condition. Shinning will
Speaker 1: be in condition. That's what we do in our routines.
Speaker 1: So okay, that's what we did, and I'll tell you
Speaker 1: what they did that. We added more court coaches because
Speaker 1: we found that me or Beheim running the drill was
Speaker 1: not good, and even D'Antoni running the drill was not good.
Speaker 1: Nate pretty good. And so we had assistance like Wojo
Speaker 1: Chris Collins, assistants in the NBA. We had so we
Speaker 1: had a bevy of guys around. So whenever these guys
Speaker 1: needed something, they would go to the gym with them.
Speaker 1: And sometimes even during the competition pool play, we would
Speaker 1: not have a practice. We would we'd call it a
Speaker 1: spa day, but it was more of a day for you.
Speaker 1: And they would we would go to the gym and
Speaker 1: they would do all their individual stuff and I weren't.
Speaker 1: And you know what, by them doing it, they saw
Speaker 1: each other and how they herod. It really was a
Speaker 1: tutorial really for all of them. Whatever they show on
Speaker 1: TV is one thing. What they do in private, they
Speaker 1: have their own stuff. And uh, that was a big
Speaker 1: thing for me. Yeah, because you're as a college coach
Speaker 1: or a little bit more of a micro manager, you know,
Speaker 1: in that regard. So we've talked about identity as a
Speaker 1: theme here, and one thing to keep in mind is
Speaker 1: that Mike Saschefki is a graduate of the United States
Speaker 1: Military Academy at West Point, and from the moment that
Speaker 1: he first gathered this team for meetings and training camps
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, he really tied the national basketball team's
Speaker 1: preparation for the Olympics into the Armed Forces. The team
Speaker 1: visited military bases, they invited service members and their families
Speaker 1: to watch practices and scrimmages. He had veterans and high
Speaker 1: ranking officers speak to the team, even had camouflage warm
Speaker 1: ups made up for the players and coaches and even
Speaker 1: Jerry Colangelo when they visited a military base ahead of
Speaker 1: one of the tournaments, and h Chris Boss spoke to
Speaker 1: the military theme that was so pervasive throughout the preparation
Speaker 1: for the Olympics. We met men and women who served
Speaker 1: who got We met one gentleman he fended off a
Speaker 1: bomb and the debris got in his eyes, blew up
Speaker 1: and got in his eyes. Was blind. He re enlisted,
Speaker 1: you know, um, hearing hearing stories like that, and always,
Speaker 1: I mean they always, like damn here every day we
Speaker 1: would meet someone talking to two and three star generals
Speaker 1: and at the same time as well then telling you
Speaker 1: about leadership and what it means to wear that flag
Speaker 1: on your chest and how important it is. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was intense, man, it was intense. And then before
Speaker 1: we you know, we didn't even um, we hadn't even
Speaker 1: left Vegas yet, you know, So it was just you
Speaker 1: saw how important it was to represent America, to represent
Speaker 1: the United States of America and who's watching and what
Speaker 1: it means to a lot of people, and so we
Speaker 1: wanted to reciprocate that energy and show them, Okay, it
Speaker 1: means a lot to us too. But it started with
Speaker 1: Coach K, you know, with Coach K and uh Colangelo.
Speaker 1: You know, those guys. They showed how important it was,
Speaker 1: you know, by by setting the tone of having the
Speaker 1: military men and women in Vegas, I mean, as soon
Speaker 1: as we got there, you know, And and it was
Speaker 1: always a part of the process. Sometimes it would be
Speaker 1: you know, Coach K telling some story when he was
Speaker 1: a basketball player at West Point or something like that,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was always ingrained. It was in
Speaker 1: pretty much ingrained in UH in the narrative the whole time.
Speaker 1: And Ski told us that was all very intentional. We
Speaker 1: used to military like crazy to help us feel being USA.
Speaker 1: And the first group that we had talked to our
Speaker 1: team Bob Brown, one of my former players at West Point.
Speaker 1: It's a Colonel Pint just retired as a fourth star general.
Speaker 1: He brought three wounded war years sent to speak to
Speaker 1: our team about selfless service. One of them was blind
Speaker 1: Scottie Smiley, who became the first blind officer in the
Speaker 1: United States Army, and two other non commissioned officers who
Speaker 1: had lost limbs, and all three of them had no
Speaker 1: excuses and they wanted to serve. Again, two thirds of
Speaker 1: those guys were crying listening to them. And you know,
Speaker 1: you don't own something by just hearing and seeing, you
Speaker 1: own something by feeling. And the military helped us immensely feel.
Speaker 1: That's why we always did things with the military, so
Speaker 1: that our guys got it and they all, we all
Speaker 1: became better people from being in there. And really that's
Speaker 1: the essence upon which that team and then the future
Speaker 1: teams built on that. That was the culture, and God
Speaker 1: bless those guys for being able to feel that way.
Speaker 1: You mentioned you really leaned on that military connection. And
Speaker 1: for some people it's it's a little it's such a subject, right,
Speaker 1: mixing sports and military, and they wonder about the appropriateness
Speaker 1: of that. But I would figure if anyone had the
Speaker 1: license to do that, it was somebody who went to army.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering what you learned at West Point about
Speaker 1: and and and how the West Point culture uh equated
Speaker 1: sports and military and how how those two things could
Speaker 1: be compared and mixed. Yeah, well, a couple of things. One,
Speaker 1: every cadet is an athlete. That that's one of the
Speaker 1: other words. There's not a cadet there that doesn't participate
Speaker 1: in sport. It either the company level, intermural club, or varsity.
Speaker 1: And that was the Thayer model of education that sport,
Speaker 1: you know, pond the fields of friendly st all those
Speaker 1: great quotes that they we all believe in it because
Speaker 1: we we see that it actually happens. The other thing
Speaker 1: with sport. It put the guy who might be the
Speaker 1: number one guy in his class and engineering and whatever,
Speaker 1: but who could hardly catch a ball be on the bench.
Speaker 1: You know. It put you in different roles of and
Speaker 1: and so in all these things. By being in sport,
Speaker 1: you learned h different roles, but you weren't learned empathy,
Speaker 1: you know. And you learned how to be a member
Speaker 1: of a squad. We also learned how to be a
Speaker 1: squad leader. So you know how we did that in
Speaker 1: leadership and training. And we take an oath. Every cadet,
Speaker 1: every West Point graduate is the same. And the fact
Speaker 1: that we've all taken the same oath, and that's the
Speaker 1: lifetime of service to our country, whether it's in military
Speaker 1: or civilian. And so even with the Redeemed team, uh,
Speaker 1: we we took an oath of playing for our country.
Speaker 1: But those standards, you know, I said, you guys. At
Speaker 1: some other time during that summer week, I said, uh,
Speaker 1: you guys are used to signing a contract, and I said,
Speaker 1: if you believe in this shop, I want you to
Speaker 1: sign the standards. But Coach K was smart. You know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't just West Point, it was also Motown. And
Speaker 1: Coach K used that soulful Marvin Gay national anthem from
Speaker 1: the three NBA All Star Game in Los Angeles. He
Speaker 1: used that to motivate the players as well as the
Speaker 1: military stuff. As Carmelo Anthony alludes to here, Coach K
Speaker 1: did a great job of making us understand what we're
Speaker 1: playing for. He did a great job of letting us
Speaker 1: know you're playing for. You have USA on your on
Speaker 1: your chest. That means a lot. You know. Like even
Speaker 1: when we when we change the national anthem, right when
Speaker 1: we we we put in you know, we we started
Speaker 1: listening to the Marvin Gay national anthem. That was Coach
Speaker 1: K doing, you know. That was his way of like, listen,
Speaker 1: this is bigger than you, guys, this is bigger than us.
Speaker 1: And when you hear that that Marvin Gay, you know,
Speaker 1: national anthem, you get goose bumps. And Coach K would
Speaker 1: just play it, play it play and play it so
Speaker 1: we understood, you know, what we was up against. And
Speaker 1: here's Darren Williams again to tell us how it all
Speaker 1: came together to instill this sense of national pride in
Speaker 1: the team. It was our way of serving the country.
Speaker 1: You know. We we didn't go to war. We didn't
Speaker 1: go you know, like like our military does. We don't
Speaker 1: go and fight for our country. That was kind of
Speaker 1: our way. I feel like I'm representing the country of
Speaker 1: of giving back. And I think there was a level
Speaker 1: of pride because of where USA basketball had had gotten to,
Speaker 1: you know, with what happened in OH four and things
Speaker 1: like that, and so I think that's what made it
Speaker 1: it's so special. Was was you know, the reason it's
Speaker 1: called the Redeemed Team, you know, because we were able
Speaker 1: to redeem what happened in for kind of put USA
Speaker 1: basketball back on top. So ultimately, what Coach k was
Speaker 1: able to do was created a shared environment, a community
Speaker 1: that they could all inhabit and we stay at equal
Speaker 1: rights and input, and ultimately they were all rewarded for that.
Speaker 1: And he shared with us a conversation he had with
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant after the twelve gold medal game in London,
Speaker 1: which was Kobe's last with the Olympic team. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: not to make the details public, so we'll honor that.
Speaker 1: But it was obvious that those type of exchanges were
Speaker 1: as valuable a part of this whole experience as anything
Speaker 1: else was for him. These guys gave you a lot
Speaker 1: of private moments that they wouldn't give other people. And
Speaker 1: I think that environment it was a good neighborhood to
Speaker 1: live in. So that's it for episode five. Remember we're
Speaker 1: not even in Beijing yet, so we're gonna be hearing
Speaker 1: a lot more about coach ks tactics, about his interactions
Speaker 1: with Kobe and Lebron and Wayne Wade and everybody else.
Speaker 1: But remember what's happened. Now we have Gary Colangelo's in charge,
Speaker 1: the Godfather, he has his coach, Mike Sky. Everybody's in
Speaker 1: love with everybody. Ye, so an episode six, the team
Speaker 1: comes together and everything is instantly wonderful, right, Well, not
Speaker 1: really Remember the episode we called the Greek Tragedy when
Speaker 1: we won the bronze medal in two thousand four. Well,
Speaker 1: an incident involving the Greeks, not the ancient ones but
Speaker 1: the modern ones occurs in two thousand six, and we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about that in episode six. But here's
Speaker 1: a little tease of how important a loss was in
Speaker 1: the two thousand six World Championships to the Redeemed Team.
Speaker 1: When we lost in two thousand six. The Redeemed Team
Speaker 1: really has its origin from what we learned in two
Speaker 1: oh six was that you can't It's kind of like
Speaker 1: the US military in Vietnam. You can't just send people
Speaker 1: over there and think because you're good, that you're gonna
Speaker 1: You have to train together, you have to learn about
Speaker 1: their game. You know you you can't be arrogant and
Speaker 1: I'm prepared are and remember Season one of the Dream
Speaker 1: Team Tapes, which talks about the Dream Team in Barcelona,
Speaker 1: is still available on the I Heart Radio app or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your favorite podcast. So I'm Jack McCallum,
Speaker 1: thanks for listening, and I'm j Dande will catch you
Speaker 1: next episode The Dream Team Tapes, Season two. Kobe Lebron
Speaker 1: and the Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts
Speaker 1: in association with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: where wherever you get your podcast. This season is written
Speaker 1: and hosted by me, Jack McCallum and j Adande. Executive
Speaker 1: producer Scott Waxman and Mark Frances for Diversion podcast and
Speaker 1: Sean's High Tone for I Heart Radio. Our editorial director
Speaker 1: is John Tuttle. Supervising producer Brian Murphy, legal producer Freddie Overstegen, Editing,
Speaker 1: mixing and sound designed by Mark franztz. Verna Fields is
Speaker 1: our technical producer, and our Director of Marketing and business
Speaker 1: Development is Jacob Bronstein Diversion Podcasts