WEBVTT - An Expert’s Perspective On The Pandemic 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.160 A week ago, Verdict came to you from my living 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.720 room while I was self quarantined in Texas and Michael 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:10.880 was skipping in scott Free in California. Today the tables 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:15.200 are turned. Now Michael and the entire state of California 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:19.919 are on lockdown. He's in effective quarantine with the rest 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:23.599 of the Golden State. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz. 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.840 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz. I'm Michael Knowles, 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.760 coming to you from lockdown. As now, even since the 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.839 last time we spoke, the seventh and eleventh largest economies 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:45.640 in the world have gone on lockdown California and New York. Now, Senator, 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:49.120 thank you very much for doing that cold open, because 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:51.920 not only are you doing my job on the cold open, 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.200 you're also doing the job of the booking producer. You 0:00:55.240 --> 0:01:00.360 have brought along one of your friends, Senator Barrasso from Wyoming, 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.920 who has expertise not only as a senator but also 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:09.080 as a physician to help us try to understand this pandemic. Well, John, welcome. 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:12.600 John Barrasso's Senator from Wyoming, but he's also doctor Barrasso, 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:16.360 and so he is wearing not only as Senator had 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:19.600 as the number three Republican and leadership at head of 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.400 the Republican Conference. But also someone has been a medical 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:26.840 doctor for many decades now, and so welcome John. Glad 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:28.520 to have you. Great to be here. And I'll tell 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.920 you this is such a popular show, certainly in Wyoming 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.520 Verdict people turned it on every night during impeachment and well, 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.360 but remember four years ago you were the choice of 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.360 Wyoming and we were big Trump territory. Now, but I'll 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.640 tell you you were the pick of the people of 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.320 Wyoming who went to the Republican Convention in twenty sixteen. Well, John, 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:50.440 thank you. I will say you're the second Senator to 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.440 join us on this podcast. The first was Lindsay. And 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.200 Lindsay and his typical understatement, walked in and said, what 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:03.080 in the hell is a podcast language? I think I'll 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:07.760 also point out he looked at these gigantic microphones, He 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.799 looked at this shag carpet out of the nineteen seventies, 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:14.079 and he said, if you guys are the number one 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.560 podcast in the world, who the hell is number two? 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:24.720 Some guy in a park outside of that. That's so 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:27.320 you've got a high bar to reach, because said Lindsay's 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.079 blazed the trail. Well, he is must see TV. He's 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.680 a high wire act and people are always waiting to 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:34.720 see which side of the wire he's going to fall 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.440 off of. But he's amazing. Well, Senator Brussel, I'm so 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:39.840 glad you could join us today because I know that 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.160 typically senators are able to go home for the weekends. 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.240 It looks like that will not be happening now. There 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.320 are multiple bills that have been voted on. We're waiting 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.680 on the next bill to come forward. I was wondering 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:54.520 if maybe we could talk as Senator Cruz, as you mentioned, 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:58.040 from your viewpoint as a physician, so much of this 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.840 is focused on getting more respirators produced, getting them out 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:04.840 to hospitals. Just from the medical perspective, where do we 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.720 stand right now? Well, I'm happy to talk about all 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:09.320 of those things, because you're right. I go home every 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.840 weekend to Wyoming. Was home last weekend, talked to a 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.800 number of folks who were physicians, as I continue to 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:16.680 do now by phone, but was there in a number 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.400 of events around the state of Wyoming last weekend. And 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.760 we have changed dramatically as America's economy in America as 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.480 essentially shut down, as has the world. And when you 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:28.920 think about last weekend, we went from a day in 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.320 Las Vegas where the one day they were going to 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.160 close down the buffets to two days later they closed 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.720 down the entire town. So this is moving very quickly, 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.640 and so it is as well medically talking to folks 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.640 at home, I talked to the hospital administrators, do you 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.800 have enough respirators? Well, they have eighteen. Now I've practiced 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.040 medicine there since nineteen eighty three, so thirty seven years. 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:52.440 They've never used all of them at the same time. 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:56.160 So by any stretch of the imagination, we have more 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.680 than we need at our hospitals and around the state 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.920 of Woming. But if this pandemic goes full blown, as 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.200 we're concerned about and what we're seeing in other places 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.200 around the world, there may not be enough. But to 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.120 just put it into perspective, and Ted and I were 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.040 talking about this at lunch. If you take a look 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:18.520 at England, the whole country, fifty or sixty million people, 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:22.400 they have five thousand of these ventilators. The machines that 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.560 you're breathing, machines that you can hook people up to. 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.000 We have one hundred and sixty thousand, So for everyone 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.960 they have. In England we have thirty two, but we 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:35.440 only have about five to six times the population that 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.800 they have. So we are the most prepared country in 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.800 the world to deal with this. Do we have enough? 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.640 I hope so, but we may not. But if we don't, 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.279 no one does. And that's the concern, and that's why 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:50.719 we're working so much with social isolation and separation and 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.799 keeping people distance, trying to do the proper things with hygiene, 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.800 all in an effort to prevent more rapid spread and 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.120 a prevention of the on going concern that we have 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.159 about the capacity, not just with respirators, but what I 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.040 hear when I talk to folks at home is are 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.960 there enough tests? Can we get people tested who have symptoms? 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:13.640 And then are there enough personal protective equipment available? So, John, 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:15.840 let's let's unpack this a little bit. And you and 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:19.640 I were discussing this over lunch. So the ventilators are 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.160 these big machines for those of us without m d s, 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:26.320 the big machines that breathe for you if you're you're 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:31.080 either in surgery or you've got severe respiratory problems in 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:35.599 an intensive career. In intensive care, and so the challenge 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:39.120 is that you look at some of these countries, and 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.800 I think Italy has seen it the worst, where we're 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.280 reading stories out of Italy where they've run out of 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:49.160 ventilators and they're sitting there with multiple patience in respiratory 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:52.640 failure and they're having to make triage decisions of this 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:56.000 person gets a ventilator, we're going to save this person's life, 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.240 and this person we're not going to save this person's life. 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:01.640 And I'm not sure if it actually is going to 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.919 work to save that person's life, because on average, some 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.479 of these people are on these machines for ten to 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:10.599 fourteen days, and at what point do you know, You 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:12.279 know they've been there a week and you don't know 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:14.640 which which way it's going to turn. So one of 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.880 these machines gets tied up a long time with a 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.520 patient who is on the machine. Which is why they're 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:24.040 working so hard with medicines that are already available worldwide 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.080 that may help shorten the amount of time that somebody 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:29.320 would need to be on the machine. The President talked 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.360 about that with a malaria medicine, there's an HIV AIDS medicine. 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:37.520 Things that we think may be helpful also hepatitis medicine. 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.279 You were chief of staff at a hospital in Casper, Wyoming. 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.320 You said they had eighteen ventilators, and your whole time 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:50.080 there you never used all eighteen. Yes, what happens if 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:54.400 at that hospital one hundred people show up with coronavirus 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.280 and with severe symptoms. What happens then? And next thing 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.719 you do after those eighteen is the machines that you 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.359 can use in an operating room for anesthesia if you 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:07.240 put somebody to sleep. But that takes additional manpower, personnel 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.160 that know how to use them. Anesthesiologists know how to 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.680 use them as they do during a surgery. But that's 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.080 not fourteen days. So you'd have to have huge amount 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:21.240 of resources, people and personal protective equipment to keep those 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:25.800 people safe while taking care of the folks with coronavirus. 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.600 And that's the big concern is that we may overwhelm 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.360 and tire out the staff as well. They're already working 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:35.480 significant overtime hours and if any of them get the 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.400 disease and some of them are, then they're taken out 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:42.560 of the fight. Well, I know, Senator Cruz, you made 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.640 a point of writing a letter about this. In terms 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.240 of getting these machines. Obviously, as Senator Bross says, we're 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.160 in a much better position than other countries, but we 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:55.880 could use more. You have suggested that the administration invoked 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.520 the Defense Production Act. This is a law from nineteen 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:06.160 fifty that would turn our manufacturing capacity toward government ends, 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.120 especially in times of war, times of a pandemic. You 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:11.680 requested that the administration invoked this, and it looks like 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:16.160 today they have. Well, that's right, and so I wrote 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.320 a letter this morning to the Secretary of Health and 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.760 Human Services Alexasar and I urged him to use the 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:27.080 delegated authority from the President to direct the building of 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.400 critical medical equipment and in particular, ventilators. I don't want 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.920 to see us in a situation like horrifically they're seeing 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:35.880 in Italy. I don't want to see doctors having to 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.680 make a choice of who gets to live and who 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.120 has to die because they don't have the equipment to 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:44.640 save their lives. And you can't build a ventilator overnight. 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.959 And if we wake up two weeks from now and 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:53.920 instead of eleven thousand cases, we've got two hundred thousand 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:58.160 cases or a million cases, it might be too late then, 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:00.920 And so I believe that that that the President of 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:05.720 the administration ought to direct the manufacture of these ventilators 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.800 and end masks and other equipment that is needed. We 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.679 ought to be directing it right now so that we 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:17.720 can meet this crisis. This is everyone recognizes this as 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.800 a public health threat. We need to do everything on 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.840 the front end to make sure we're not forced into 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:30.000 an impossible situations. On the back end, and military opportunities 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:31.800 to use the equipment there as well, and the VA 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.720 hospitals and other sources. So there's there's some additional capacity, 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.079 but it can still get stretched to the limit. And listen, 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:42.440 you don't necessarily have to have the hospital in Wyoming 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:46.880 doesn't necessarily need to go from eighteen ventilators to a hundred, 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:51.079 But there needs to be a central repository where ventilators 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:54.320 are being constructed where you can surge that if there's 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:58.760 an outbreak in a region and ventilators are needed, that 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:00.480 you can get them there, and you can get them 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:05.439 there in real time where the need is. You know, 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.600 some conservatives have asked about this, They say, is this 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.840 a government overreach? Is the invocation of for instance, the 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.599 Defense Production Act as something that is unprecedented, but it 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.840 is worth noting this law has been invoked many, many 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:22.600 times over the year, as it was invoked during the 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.080 Obama administration. So while there might be concerns about how 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.920 the government is handling this on this particular front, it 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.840 seems sort of like a no brainer. Well, and it's 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:36.280 also how America has overcome virtually every major challenge we've 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.920 seen is the incredible economic might of the American free 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.080 enterprise system. I mean, it's how we won World War Two, 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:46.120 as we directed. Remember, World War two for us started 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.360 with Pearl Harbor. Started it with a kamikaze attack, a 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:54.960 surprise attack that took out a vast percentage of our 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:59.400 naval fleet, and we leaned in and rebuilt. And it 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.320 was the power hour of this economy that enabled us 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:08.240 to win World War Two. We can mobilize that same 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:12.480 economic power to make sure you know, it was a 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:14.840 striking thing. John. I don't know if you watched any 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:19.240 of the debate between Bernie and Joe Biden. Yes it 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.800 was painful, but I did. I only endured about thirty 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:24.240 minutes of it. There really was just sort of there 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.360 were no sports on Sunday night, you know, the NBA 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:31.320 was shut down. So, but it was very interesting when 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:36.119 Bernie was pointing to this crisis as justification for socialized 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:40.280 medicine and what he calls Medicare for All. I thought 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.839 it was striking that Biden jumped in and said, well, 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.520 you know, Bernie, Italy has socialized medicine and we're seeing 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.240 that it isn't working there. I mean that in a 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:54.200 Democratic primary, was this sort of startling moment of sanity 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.280 that stood out for how different it was from almost 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:02.079 everything else in the primary, and even Washington Post, not 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:06.400 known for being a conservative voice, have the challenges of 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:11.840 coronavirus to countries with socialized medicine, and the statistics that 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.120 I just gave you about respirators and ventilators, Michael, the 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.959 breathing machines that caused fifty thousand dollars a piece. That's 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.480 where all the statistics come to as to how few 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.560 they have other places compared to the United States, and why, 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.520 according to JOHNS. Hopkins, University of the United States is 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.280 the most prepared country in the world to deal with 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:33.640 this threat. That were you describe the US versus England, 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.679 and you said, we're much better prepared than England. They 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.080 have socialized medicine in England. Yes, How does the US 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.520 and England how do they compared to Italy? Well, both 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.680 are better than what's happening in Italy. Now. The virus, 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:47.959 it's it's unusual with this virus. They're seeing that it 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.720 seems to be affecting old not just older people, older 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.520 people who are smokers. And there's a question of has 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.840 the virus changed and mutated a bit in ways that 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.240 it's striking people differently. You know, you look at China, 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.080 they're kind of over the hump. It looks like in 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.240 terms of new cases if you believe them. I don't 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:08.000 believe them. And at the same time, you're seeing significant 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.880 increases in France, a big jump in deaths the other day. 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.200 So is it actually getting worse in Europe as it's 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.840 getting better in China? You know, Michael John and I 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.480 are both members of two informal caucuses I would call 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:23.360 them in the Senate. One is the boot Caucus, and 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.960 they're probably twenty twenty five senators that wear cowboy boots, 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.920 Republicans and Democrats. And I've joked that if you're wearing boots, 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:35.880 you can't be all bad. Sometimes our colleagues test that proposition. 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:41.360 And then secondly, we are both among the senators of 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.280 Italian American heritage, so as we look at what's happening 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:49.559 in Italy, John's ancestors and my and my own trace 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.440 their lineage there. I'm sorry, I have to say I'm 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.240 not in the boot caucus, but I am in the 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.480 Italian caucus. And of course that with a name like Cruz, 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.120 I wasn't so sure about the Italian, but I'm certainly Cuban, 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.960 Irish and just a little bit of Italian. That is 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:10.719 excellent moment. Men are happy to have him. But I'm 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:12.480 sorry I cut you off as you were saying, no, 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:16.000 I remember we uh, it's Ted's right, and we talk 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:20.960 about socialized medicine and they're always stretched to the limits, 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:23.840 so they really cannot handle the sort of things that 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:28.680 are happening here. Globally, the stretch is even greater, and 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.480 it's certainly this time of year. British hospitals are always 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:34.520 overloaded at this time of year and they have to 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.880 cancel elective cases, and we are now in the United 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.960 States canceling elective cases just to make sure the capacity 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:42.920 is there, and a lot of it has to do 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:47.440 with these personal protective equipment that folks need, in terms 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.920 of the masks, in terms of the the sterile gowns, 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.040 the gloves, all of those things, because if there if 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.240 there's not enough of them, then they shouldn't be using 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:59.560 them for elective procedures. Well, Senators, I would be interested 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:03.080 in Senator Brussel your medical perspective and then Senator Cruising 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:07.920 your political perspective as well on what the state lockdowns mean. 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.360 You know a lot of people have written in and 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.800 they understand that we have a federal system and so 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.680 the states can do things that the federal government cannot do. 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.040 But as a conservative, and as someone with absolutely no 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:24.120 medical expertise whatsoever, how should I be looking at the 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:26.720 state lockdowns? Are they a good thing? Are they conservative? 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.320 Are they medically necessary? Well? I'm a states rights guy. 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.840 I mean that's how I was in the Wyoming State legislature. 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.760 I am still that way now. And it's the governor 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:40.240 of our state that's making decisions. In many states, the 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.560 governor can't even close down the schools in our state. 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.640 It's a local decision by various school boards. Local control, 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.960 local decisions. So I think it's better to have things 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.840 done that way. Education is so much a part of this. 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.160 But the more we can do to have people washing 0:15:56.200 --> 0:16:00.680 more frequently, staying in terms of the from each other, 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.920 the distancing all of those things, I think is the 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.880 better chance to take care of the first crisis, which 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.680 is the medical crisis that we have, and then deal 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.520 with the economic crisis that we also have. We just 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.200 alluded a bit to the economic crisis and this strong 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.600 and robust economy that we started from and having to 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.960 get that all restored again. To get to that point, 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.600 we have to get the medical crisis behind us, and 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.240 the best way to do it is the social distancing, 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:29.360 the proper hygiene, and all of the things that we 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.280 can do to stop the spread of the disease. John, 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.360 let me ask you, as you know yesterday Gavin Newsom, 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:40.720 governor California, said that over half of the people in California, 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.280 over twenty five million people could become infected with this virus. 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:49.160 As a doctor, does that sound credible to you? I 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:54.400 hear a lot of people that are not sure the 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.400 magnitude of the threat. What's your assessment from medical and 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.760 Angla Merklos said Injury Germany, maybe sixty to seventy percent 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:05.920 of the population there, you know, if this continues to spread, 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.520 and I think there's a difference between having the disease 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.880 and testing positive or having the virus. So I think 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.280 there are some people that may become infected and not 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.960 even show symptoms or show signs of it. We're seeing 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:21.440 it with the younger people with the you know, the 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:23.919 children that may be carriers of the disease that they 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.399 would test positive. Then you worry about them near grandmam 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.119 or grampap so they could have the virus in the 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.919 system and they can but not really be effective by 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.560 We're not exactly sure why that is. And when I 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.159 talked about the possibility of a virus mutation and changes 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:43.200 now they're seeing in Europe sometimes forty five or fifty 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.359 percent of the people hospitalized are under the age of 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:47.040 fifty five. I mean, we kind of thought of it 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.280 as an old person's disease, and in terms of those dying, 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:52.960 it does seem to be that older group, but some 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.840 of the people on respirators are now in a somewhat 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.640 younger group as well. Now, are they mostly people who 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:03.119 have asthma or other significant respiratory illnesses or what I 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.480 think they're still trying to figure that went out. Because 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:10.600 the medical systems in Italy and France are overwhelmed, they're 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.200 not that able at this point to kind of come 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.439 back with good research numbers until their fatality rates go 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.600 go up. Probably when when the medical systems overwhelmed, you 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:23.560 see you see four or five six percent fatality instead 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:25.840 of one or two, which is what they expected it 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:28.280 to be. The flu, which I think this year in 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.280 the United States is going to kill about thirty six 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:35.160 thousand Americans. That's one tenth of one percent. Doctor Fauci said. 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:36.960 You know, if we get everything and do it right here, 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.720 it would be ten times that. But you're right, across 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.600 the world, we're seeing numbers much higher than that. Well, 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.639 Senator Brosso, to your point, there may be many people 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:50.240 who have the virus or who are not showing symptoms, 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.359 or certainly who have not tested positive. Is there any 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.480 way that that testing will become so widely available that 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.439 we'll be able to figure out what the denominator is 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:01.879 because we're not going to get a very good sense 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.200 of the fatality rate if we don't know how many 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.080 people have it in the first place. Well, that's exactly right. 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.200 And Ted and I were to lunch with the President 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:13.000 last week and Tony Fauci and others, and when they said, well, 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.000 we're going to have more and more tests available, I said, well, 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.240 then you're going to have a lot more positives just 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.680 because they're already positive, they just don't know it. And 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:22.640 we're now at that phase where I think we're over 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.520 seventeen thousand positive tests in the United States. Over two 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:27.800 hundred have died. But if you could get to the 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.000 point where more and more people are tested, we may 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:33.600 know that denominator as well as a numerator, and I 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.000 think it would be more helpful to see. Well, I 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:37.520 know that both of you are going to be in 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.679 town to vote on this next part of relief for coronavirus. Already, 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.119 we've seen some announcements from the White House today, closing 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.760 the border with Mexico, closing the border with Canada, putting 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.480 off student loan payments for sixty days. I mean, there 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.240 have been a number of provisions that have already come out. 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.600 What can we look forward to, as you guys quarantined 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:00.400 in Washington to see voted on over the next few days, 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.320 and how will it help? So I think we'll probably 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.880 vote on Monday. Right now, where we are is that 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:10.640 Mitch McConnell has has filed a bill, and right now 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:15.879 there is active negotiation with the Democrats. I don't know 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.919 what's going to come out of that negotiation. As I 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:20.959 look at the bill, I think it is important that 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:26.000 we see strong action from Washington to provide economic relief. 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:29.240 I'm very concerned that we are going to see in 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:33.520 coming weeks millions and millions of job losses. Yesterday I 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:37.360 predicted over a million job losses. That the numbers I'm 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.040 saying now are even two and three million coming up 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:41.800 in just a week or two. I mean, it's it's 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:43.960 there are a lot of layoffs, there are a lot 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:45.840 of people hurting. There are a lot of small businesses. 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.960 There are a lot of restaurants and bars and hotels 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:53.360 that are that are just really hurting. The bill right 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.960 now that that has been introduced, has really two important 0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:00.760 components to it. One is the individual leaf, and that's 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:05.080 basically sending a twelve hundred dollar check to just about everybody, 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:09.520 just about everybody who makes less than ninety nine thousand 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:13.679 dollars a year. That's individual relief, just to provide a 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.919 check and some help. The second component is focused on 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.000 loans for all of the small businesses, for all of 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.399 the big businesses that are you know, the airlines are 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:28.280 losing billions. It's focused on loans to help those businesses 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:30.080 survive so people have a job to come back to, 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:32.840 so that that you know, when you're if you're a waiter, 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:34.840 you work at a restaurant and your restaurant is shut 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.840 down right now, you sure do hope that when you 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:40.560 can go back, that that restaurant hasn't gone out of business. 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:44.600 And so you know my view, Look, I'm worried about 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.120 what the Democrats are going to insist upon, and it 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:49.680 is possible this bill gets to be such a mess 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:52.480 that I vote no. I mean if if if they 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.919 put a bunch of garbage in there, that's possible, I 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:01.000 will say I would characterize myself as pleasant lea surprised 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.240 as a conservative about where the bill is right now, 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:09.040 in that it is not It is not like the 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:12.960 Obama stimulus. We talked last night about how TARP, for example, 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:16.720 was very different because there you had financial firms whose 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.919 own misconduct had caused much of the crisis. This is different. 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.200 This is more like a natural disaster, more like a 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:27.320 hurricane or a fire, where it's not the fault of 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.560